Suzano SA (SUZ) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for holding and welcome to Suzano's conference call to discuss the results for the second quarter of 2025. We would like to inform that all participants will be in a listen-only mode during the presentation that will be addressed by the CEO, Mr. Alberto Abreu, and other executive officers. This call will be presented in English with simultaneous translation to Portuguese. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的出席，歡迎參加 Suzano 的電話會議，討論 2025 年第二季的業績。我們想通知您，在執行長 Alberto Abreu 先生和其他執行長發表演講期間，所有參與者都將處於僅聆聽模式。此次電話會議將以英語進行，並同步翻譯成葡萄牙文。（操作員指示）

Before proceeding, please be aware that any forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs and assumptions of Suzano's management and on information currently available to the company. They involve risks, uncertainties, and assumptions because they relate to future events and, therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur in the future.

在繼續之前，請注意任何前瞻性陳述均基於 Suzano 管理層的信念和假設以及公司目前掌握的資訊。它們涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們與未來事件有關，因此取決於未來可能發生或可能不會發生的情況。

You should understand that general economic conditions, industry conditions, and other operating factors could also affect the future results of Suzano and could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements.

您應該了解，一般經濟狀況、行業狀況和其他營運因素也可能影響 Suzano 的未來業績，並可能導致結果與此類前瞻性陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。

Now I will turn the conference over to Mr. Alberto Abreu. Please, you may begin your presentation.

現在我將會議交給阿爾貝托·阿布雷烏先生。請開始您的演講。

Thank you everyone for attending our second-quarter results from Suzano. I would like to start sharing a couple of highlights of our results in the second quarter, but also, I'd like to cover and give you more details about the relevant information that we share last night with all of you and with the market.

感謝大家參加 Suzano 的第二季業績發表會。我想開始分享我們第二季度業績的幾個亮點，同時，我也想介紹一下我們昨晚與大家和市場分享的相關信息，並向大家提供更多詳細信息。

Regarding the results, all the numbers what was quite in line with what we planned, with what we expected, mainly regarding sales, operational cash. But I want to reinforce that the trend that we saw regarding the cash cost is something that we will see in the next quarter.

就結果而言，所有數字都與我們的計劃和預期相符，主要是關於銷售額和營運現金。但我想強調的是，我們看到的現金成本趨勢將在下個季度看到。

So we are really expecting even lower cost in the third quarter regarding the second quarter and even lower in the last quarter. (inaudible) will be able to cover that specific talk with more details.

因此，我們確實預期第三季的成本會比第二季更低，最後一季的成本會更低。 （聽不清楚）將能夠更詳細地介紹這一具體談話。

I also would like to share with you more details regarding the swap and the deal that was announced with Eldorado. And Just to give you a summary about the concept here, what's going to happen is that we're going to be able, once we sign it already, the deal is to start harvesting their wood immediately in 2025 but also in 2026 and 2027.

我還想與大家分享有關此次交換以及與 Eldorado 宣布的交易的更多細節。這裡我簡單概括一下這個概念，一旦我們簽署協議，我們將能夠在 2025 年立即開始採伐木材，並且在 2026 年和 2027 年也能開始採伐。

And we will have to give it back the same amount of volume and they will start harvesting 2028, '29, '30, and '31. So that will allow our forests to grow during this period of time and then much more volume in terms of [cool] meter will be available in our operation.

我們必須歸還相同數量的石油，然後他們將在 2028、2029、2030 和 2031 年開始收割。這樣，我們的森林就能在這段時間內生長，然後我們的運作中就能獲得更多的[冷]米量。

That of course means cost avoidance -- CapEx avoidance, to be very honest in terms of less planning and also less wood to be acquire in the market. And we will also be able to reduce, on a very important way, the ratio, for our operations, mainly in Ribas and Tres Lagoas.

這當然意味著避免成本——避免資本支出，坦白說，就是減少規劃，減少在市場上需要收購的木材。我們還將能夠以一種非常重要的方式降低我們業務的比例，主要是在里巴斯和特雷斯拉各斯。

So this is the deal that we want to pursue considering the amount of value that is generating for the business. We are expecting an internal return of the deal, which will be around 20%. That's what we are expecting with this deal with Eldorado.

因此，考慮到這筆交易能為企業創造的價值，我們願意進行這筆交易。我們預計該交易的內部報酬率將在 20% 左右。這就是我們對與 Eldorado 達成的這筆交易的期望。

So, I want also to mention that the deal will bring us an optionality to, in the future, increase production at the Ribas mill since we have been learning that the capacity of that meal is even higher than the one that is in the plan. So that mill might be able to produce something between 100,000 and 150,000 tons per year, more than was originally planned. That's what we have been learning in the mill in the last couple of months.

因此，我還想提一下，這筆交易將為我們帶來一個選擇，即在未來增加 Ribas 工廠的產量，因為我們已經了解到該工廠的產量甚至高於計劃中的產量。因此，該工廠每年的產量可能在 10 萬至 15 萬噸之間，比原計劃要多。這就是我們過去幾個月在工廠學到的。

So the deal that we are doing now, we also create the optionality for the company to increase in the future production in this mill without any investment if we decide to do it and if the market brings the right environment to justify any kind of increase in terms of production. So that's the rationale behind the deal, and we can also comment more detail if you want during the call.

因此，我們現在正在進行的交易也為公司創造了選擇權，如果我們決定這樣做並且市場帶來合適的環境來證明任何形式的產量增加都是合理的，那麼公司就可以在不進行任何投資的情況下增加該工廠的未來產量。這就是這筆交易背後的理由，如果您願意，我們還可以在通話期間評論更多細節。

The other thing that I would like to mention is that the communication regarding the 3.5% of production of -- reduction in our production in the in the next 12 months, it's completely aligned with our objectives to produce with the right level of return. That's not only about, of course, producing with more -- with generating cash, but it's producing with the right level of return that we expect from our operation. So we are being absolutely consistent with what we have been doing the last couple of years.

我想提及的另一件事是，關於未來 12 個月產量減少 3.5% 的溝通，完全符合我們以適當的回報水準進行生產的目標。當然，這不僅意味著生產更多現金，還意味著生產出符合我們預期的營運回報水準。因此，我們的做法與過去幾年的做法完全一致。

Just also to give more detail regarding the process, we should reduce on the linear way in the next 12 months, the reduction in our operation. So, Leo can also comment regarding the business environment and this is a decision that we use to accept from the finance team that is controlling all the time, the profitability and the level of return of any ton of pulp that we produce in our meals.

為了更詳細地說明這個過程，我們應該在未來 12 個月內以線性方式減少營運規模。因此，Leo 還可以對商業環境發表評論，這是我們接受的財務團隊做出的決定，該團隊始終控制著我們在餐點中生產的每一噸紙漿的盈利能力和回報水平。

I will finish mentioning that our focus, as I have been mentioning the other calls, will be on competitiveness. This is why I'm highlighting the trend regarding the cash cost in the next quarter. And also in executing the deal that we signed with KC.

最後我想說的是，正如我在其他呼籲中提到的那樣，我們的重點將放在競爭力上。這就是我強調下一季現金成本趨勢的原因。並且執行我們與 KC 簽署的協議。

Firstly, making sure that the [car vault] will be done on time and on budget. But also, making sure that we do not bring any new distraction in terms of new initiatives on the M&A arena for the table. We want to concentrate to execute well what we have on the table right now.

首先，確保[汽車保險庫]按時、按預算完成。但同時，我們也要確保我們不會在併購領域的新措施上帶來任何新的干擾。我們希望集中精力做好目前的工作。

So again, in the next two years, that will be our focus: on executing our process, on deleveraging, and also making sure that our level of competitiveness will keep increasing in our operational side. So that's the main highlights that I would like to share with you, again, saying that sales, operational cash generation, and EBITDA was absolutely in line with what the team here has planned for the quarter.

因此，在接下來的兩年裡，這將是我們的重點：執行我們的流程，去槓桿，並確保我們的競爭力水平在營運方面不斷提高。這是我想與大家分享的主要亮點，再次強調，銷售額、營運現金產生和 EBITDA 完全符合本季團隊的計畫。

Having said that, I would like to hand over to Fabio, who will cover the Paper and Packaging business.

話雖如此，我想把權力交給 Fabio，他將負責紙張和包裝業務。

Thank you, Alberto, and good morning, everyone. Let's turn to the next page of the presentation. Our second-quarter results were marked by stronger sales volumes and lower costs versus Q1 with EBITDA growth from our Brazilian operations on a quarter-over-quarter and a year-over-year basis.

謝謝你，阿爾貝托，大家早安。讓我們翻到簡報的下一頁。我們第二季的業績表現為與第一季相比銷售量增加、成本降低，巴西業務的 EBITDA 環比和同比增長。

Although Brazilian operations didn't have any planning maintenance in the quarter, as I have mentioned to you on our last call, we conduct in April our annual maintenance at the Pine Bluff Mill, which was executed on time and slightly below budget, but negatively impact US operation EBITDA due to the lower volumes and higher costs.

儘管巴西業務在本季度沒有任何計劃維護，但正如我在上次電話會議上提到的那樣，我們於 4 月在 Pine Bluff Mill 進行了年度維護，該維護按時完成且略低於預算，但由於產量較低和成本較高，對美國業務 EBITDA 產生了負面影響。

Regarding price performance in Q2 versus Q1, starting with our Brazilian operations. The 1% price hike in the domestic market was more than offset by lower export prices as a result of product mix, regional location strategy, and BRL appreciation. Regarding price performance on our US operations, the 3% hike quarter-over-quarter was driven by product mix and better commercial location.

關於第二季與第一季的價格表現，首先從我們的巴西業務開始。由於產品結構、區域定位策略和巴西雷亞爾升值等因素，國內市場價格上漲 1%，但出口價格下降卻抵銷了這一上漲。關於我們美國業務的價格表現，環比成長 3% 是由於產品組合和更好的商業位置所推動的。

Now, talking about a demand dynamic in Q2. Looking to the Brazilian market and according to [Ribas], print and right demand, including imports, rose 6% in the first two months of Q2 year-over-year. Domestic sales grew 6% and imports grew 9%, driven mainly from higher demand for uncoated paper linked to the Brazilian government textbook program. Cut-size demand remains stable while coated paper demand in Brazil shrunk in the same period.

現在，談論第二季的需求動態。放眼巴西市場，據 [Ribas] 稱，第二季度前兩個月，包括進口在內的印刷品和版權需求同比增長了 6%。國內銷售額成長 6%，進口量成長 9%，主要原因是巴西政府教科書計畫對非塗佈紙的需求增加。巴西的切紙需求保持穩定，而同期的塗佈紙需求則有所萎縮。

Outside Brazil and according to CPC, unquoted wood-free paper demand, our main exported product, remains stable in North America and Latin America, but declined 10% in Europe. International markets continue to show weak demand for print and white paper grades during the quarter due to unfavorable supply demand balance and ongoing trade war uncertainties.

在巴西以外，根據 CPC 的數據，我們的主要出口產品非報價無木漿紙的需求在北美和拉丁美洲保持穩定，但在歐洲下降了 10%。由於供需平衡不利以及持續的貿易戰不確定性，本季國際市場對印刷和白紙的需求持續疲軟。

Turning to paper board demand. In Brazil, we saw a 3% demand increase in the first two months versus last year with domestic sales up 5% and imports down 3% in the period. In the US market, our faux region for Suzano Packaging operations, according to numeral, [faux port] demand was stable in the first six months of 2025. However, demand for SBS boards, which Suzano Pack produces, has increased 1% over the same period, albeit coming 1% reduction versus Q1.

談到紙板需求。在巴西，今年前兩個月的需求與去年同期相比成長了 3%，其中國內銷售額成長了 5%，進口量下降了 3%。在美國市場，即 Suzano Packaging 業務的仿製地區，根據數字，2025 年前六個月的需求保持穩定。然而，Suzano Pack 生產的 SBS 板的需求在同一時期增加了 1%，儘管與第一季相比減少了 1%。

Looking ahead to Suzano's Paper and Packaging business in Q3, we expect the costs in our Brazilian operations to remain stable versus Q2, as no maintenance sometimes are scheduled. At Suzano Package in the US, we anticipated lower costs along with higher production and sales volumes.

展望 Suzano 第三季的造紙和包裝業務，我們預期巴西業務的成本將與第二季相比保持穩定，因為有時沒有安排維護。在美國 Suzano Package，我們預期成本會降低，同時產量和銷售量會提高。

We are confident in delivering positive EBITDA from this operation going forward. Sales volumes in Brazil are expected to increase versus Q2, given marked seasonality. Higher prices should remain stable.

我們有信心未來這項業務能夠實現正的 EBITDA。由於明顯的季節性，預計巴西的銷售量將比第二季度增加。較高的價格應該保持穩定。

Before diving into our Paper export performance, it's important to highlight that our paper exports were not exempt from the 50% import duties imposed by the US government started in August. To mitigate the impact, Suzano has built inventories in the US that are sufficient to cover most of our sales throughout the year end.

在深入了解我們的紙張出口表現之前，必須強調的是，我們的紙張出口並未免除美國政府從 8 月開始徵收的 50% 進口關稅。為了減輕影響，Suzano 在美國建立了足以滿足我們全年大部分銷售額的庫存。

And we are now planning to redirect the majority of our exports in the US to other regions. Currently, the US accounts for around 20% of our total exports. And we are running different actions to mitigate the impact of the tariffs moving forward.

我們現在計劃將美國的大部分出口轉向其他地區。目前，美國約占我國出口總額的20%。我們正在採取不同的措施來減輕關稅的影響。

Now I'll hand over to Leo who will be presenting our Pulp business results.

現在我將把時間交給 Leo，他將介紹我們的紙漿業務成果。

Thanks, Fabio, and good morning, everyone. Let's now turn to our Pulp business unit where I'd like to highlight key developments for this passport. The second quarter was impacted by market disruptions in China following Liberation Day, as announced by the US government.

謝謝，法比奧，大家早安。現在讓我們轉到紙漿業務部門，我想重點介紹這本護照的主要發展。美國政府宣布，第二季受到中國解放日後市場混亂的影響。

These developments led to a temporary halt in Chinese purchases of pulp in the first half of the quarter, pressuring inventory buildup at main import hubs and triggering significant price corrections as the quarter evolved. Prices in Europe and North America followed the same downward price trend as the quarter evolved with the usual bag.

這些發展導致中國在本季上半月暫時停止購買紙漿，給主要進口中心的庫存累積帶來壓力，並在本季度引發了大幅的價格調整。隨著本季普通包款價格的演變，歐洲和北美的價格也呈現同樣的下降趨勢。

Our order intake recovered from mid-May onwards, allowing us to effectively execute our sales and regional distribution strategy and keeping inventory stable, in line with our previously announced plans. The flattish price performance in our Q2 '25 results compared to the previous quarter is primarily due to the time gap between order intake and revenue recognition, combined with the fact that average prices outside China remain higher for longer during the period. Looking to the right side of our slide, a combination of higher volumes, lower costs, and stable prices in US dollar terms resulted in a BRL5.4 billion rise EBITDA equivalent to 52% EBITDA margin.

我們的訂單量從五月中旬開始恢復，使我們能夠有效地執行銷售和區域分銷策略，並保持庫存穩定，這符合我們先前宣布的計劃。與上一季相比，我們 2025 年第二季的業績價格表現持平，主要是由於訂單量和收入確認之間的時間差距，再加上中國以外的平均價格在此期間保持較高水平的時間較長。從我們幻燈片的右側看，更高的產量、更低的成本以及以美元計算的穩定價格共同導致 EBITDA 增加了 54 億巴西雷亞爾，相當於 52% 的 EBITDA 利潤率。

Now looking forward, I would like to highlight the following points. In China, following a strong sales performance in June, our July order intake reached exceptionally high levels. Purchase orders from our regular customers exceeded their historic averages, and we also saw a notable purchasing level from integrated pulp and paper producers.

展望未來，我想強調以下幾點。在中國，繼六月強勁的銷售業績之後，我們七月的訂單量達到了異常高的水平。來自我們老客戶的採購訂單超過了歷史平均水平，我們也看到來自綜合紙漿和造紙生產商的採購水平顯著提高。

Our sources in China indicate that such buying pattern has not only been seen by Suzano but across the broad hardwood market, suggesting that a restocking movement seems to be underway. In July in China, paper and board production recovered to healthy levels, contributing to a reduction in Pulp inventories at Chinese ports from the peaks in mid-June. This high operating rate, combined with the typical seasonal uptake in demand expected for most markets from late August onwards, is likely to support further increases in paper production going forward.

我們在中國的消息來源表明，這種購買模式不僅出現在 Suzano，而且出現在整個硬木市場，這表明補貨運動似乎正在進行中。7月份，中國紙張和紙板產量恢復到健康水平，導致中國港口紙漿庫存從6月中旬的峰值下降。這一高開工率，加上預計大多數市場從八月下旬開始將出現典型的季節性需求成長，可能會支持未來紙張產量進一步增加。

In the supply side, new unexpected developments have begun to emerge, including extended maintenance and commercial downtimes, and the additional dissolving pulp production campaign in Brazil by a major BHKP player. And we believe that further driven adjustments -- further supply-driven adjustments are both likely and imminent.

在供應方面，新的意外發展開始出現，包括延長維護和商業停機時間，以及巴西一家主要 BHKP 公司在巴西開展的額外溶解漿生產活動。我們相信，進一步的驅動調整——進一步的供應驅動調整是可能的，而且即將發生。

We are now entering the 10th consecutive month with prices below the estimated marginal cash cost of $600. This represents an equivalent of more than 7 million tons of hardwood production, or 15% of global hardwood capacity underwater as we speak.

目前，價格已連續第 10 個月低於預期的 600 美元邊際現金成本。這相當於700多萬噸硬木產量，或者說全球15%的硬木產能被淹沒在水下。

Additionally, pulp prices across all regions and all regions have already converged to Chinese levels. In our view, this combination creates an unsustainable economic environment for high costs for producers.

此外，各地區、各區域的紙漿價格均已向中國水準靠攏。我們認為，這種結合會造成不可持續的經濟環境，導致生產者成本高。

In response to more favorable demand outlook and emerging supply constraints, we have announced to all Asian customers, Chinese customers included, a $20 per ton price increase effective immediately for August sales orders. We are closely monitoring market dynamics in other regions where further upward pricing actions are being actively evaluated as part of our ongoing commercial strategy.

為了因應更有利的需求前景和新出現的供應限制，我們向包括中國客戶在內的所有亞洲客戶宣布，8月銷售訂單的價格將立即上漲20美元/噸。我們正在密切關注其他地區的市場動態，作為我們正在進行的商業策略的一部分，我們正在積極評估進一步的上調價格行動。

With that said, I would now like to invite Aires to address our cash cost performance for the best quarter.

話雖如此，我現在想請艾利斯談談我們本季最佳的現金成本表現。

Thank you, Leo, and good morning, everyone. Moving ahead. In the second quarter, all cash cost components declined versus first quarter of 2025, mainly due to stronger operational performance as the quarter was free of schedule maintenance downtime, which led to lower fixed costs and higher energy exports. The reduction in average logging wages at our Imperatriz, Aracruz, and Tres Lagoas operations was the main driver behind the decrease in the wood costs.

謝謝你，Leo，大家早安。繼續前進。第二季度，所有現金成本組成部分均較 2025 年第一季度有所下降，這主要是由於本季度沒有計劃維護停機時間，導致營運業績增強，從而降低了固定成本並增加了能源出口。我們的 Imperatriz、Aracruz 和 Tres Lagoas 業務的平均伐木工資下降是木材成本下降的主要原因。

Compared to the second quarter of 2024, cash costs remained virtually stable. Lower fixed costs and higher energy exports were supported by a new Ribas mill. However, the 90% depreciation of the Brazilian reals against the US dollars, combined with the rising price of certain chemicals, such as [caustica soda], negatively impact the cash cost figure. Although operation performance improved in the second quarter of 2025 compared to quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year, some non-recurring events during the [full year] limited a more significant reduction in the cash costs.

與 2024 年第二季相比，現金成本基本上保持穩定。新建的 Ribas 工廠支持了較低的固定成本和較高的能源出口。然而，巴西雷亞爾兌美元貶值 90%，加上某些化學物質（如苛性鈉）價格上漲，對現金成本產生了負面影響。儘管2025年第二季的經營業績較上一季和去年同期有所改善，但全年的一些非經常性事件限制了現金成本的更大幅度下降。

Look ahead, we continue to expect a downward trend in the cash cost over the coming quarters of 2025, supported by lower wood costs and the startup of a new biomass power boiler in Aracruz in the 40 quarter. In this context, we will maintain our outlook for average cash cost in 2024, 2025 to remain close to the level we recorded in the fourth quarter of 2024 when we reached [807] per ton on an export on time basis.

展望未來，我們預計 2025 年未來幾季現金成本將繼續呈下降趨勢，這得益於木材成本下降以及第 40 個季度 Aracruz 啟動新的生物質發電鍋爐。在此背景下，我們將維持 2024 年、2025 年平均現金成本的預測，使其接近 2024 年第四季記錄的水平，當時出口價格達到每噸 [807]。

This said, I invite Marcos to continue the presentation.

話雖如此，我還是邀請馬可斯繼續演講。

Thank you, Aires. Good morning, everyone. So on slide 7, you can see that our net debt remained relatively stable sequentially at $13 billion. Our net leverage ticked up to 3.1 times from 3.0 times last quarter, namely impacted by the reduction in the last 12 months EBITDA to $4.2 billion. We maintain the healthy amortization schedule with more than six years of average maturity and a solid cash position, which covers the company's obligations in the upcoming three years.

謝謝你，艾利斯。大家早安。因此，在幻燈片 7 上，您可以看到我們的淨債務保持相對穩定，為 130 億美元。我們的淨槓桿率從上一季的 3.0 倍上升至 3.1 倍，主要是受到過去 12 個月 EBITDA 減少至 42 億美元的影響。我們維持健康的攤銷計劃，平均到期日超過六年，並且擁有穩固的現金狀況，可以滿足公司未來三年的債務。

Moving to slide 8, you can see our hedge position. We closed the second quarter of 2025 with an operational hatch position of $6.8 billion and it's worth highlighting that our current portfolio of zero cost callers has an average put option of 5.53, which is above today's FX level, and an average put option of 6.41. So we are very well protected for the scenario that we're living today.

移至投影片 8，您可以看到我們的對沖部位。截至2025年第二季度，我們的營運部位為68億美元。值得一提的是，我們目前的零成本買權投資組合的平均看跌期權價格為5.53美元，高於目前的外匯水平，平均看跌期權價格為6.41美元。因此，就目前的情況而言，我們的資產負債表狀況非常穩健。

We also posted positive financial results of BRL4.4 billion helped by the 5% BRL appreciation, which had a positive impact on our debt position in US dollars. And also on the market-to-market of our derivatives position.

我們也公佈了 44 億巴西雷亞爾的財務業績，這得益於巴西雷亞爾升值 5%，這對我們的美元債務狀況產生了積極影響。以及我們的衍生性商品部位的市場對市場狀況。

Now, I would like to hand it over to Alberto for his final remarks.

現在，我想把時間交給阿爾貝托，請他做最後的演講。

Thank you, Marcos. Most of the topics that we can see here in the last slide, I'm sure that I were able to -- I was able to cover during the introduction. So my suggestion is to go directly for the Q&A. So thank you for attending the call and I will wait for -- we will wait for the questions.

謝謝你，馬科斯。我確信我能夠在介紹過程中涵蓋我們在上一張投影片中看到的大多數主題。所以我的建議是直接進行問答。感謝您參加電話會議，我將等待—我們將等待提問。

(Operator Instructions) Marcio Farid, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指示）高盛的馬西奧法里德 (Marcio Farid)。

(spoken in foreign Portugese)

（用外國葡萄牙語說）

We're going to start with your second question just because of our other participants. I will translate or try to translate this question in English, which is why we're seeing this changing dynamics in the Pulp scenario that allowed us to announce the $20 price increase for Asia, China including. And also, the effects of yesterday's, recent news on -- about [Qingming].

由於還有其他參與者，我們將從您的第二個問題開始。我將用英語翻譯或嘗試用英語翻譯這個問題，這就是為什麼我們看到 Pulp 場景中這種變化的動態，這使我們能夠宣布包括中國在內的亞洲地區的價格上漲 20 美元。此外，昨天最近的新聞對…的影響[清明]。

As I mentioned in my speech, we have been seeing very high order intake levels in China since June. And July, this level reached exceptionally high levels in all kinds of customers in our portfolio. So I'm talking about the regular Pulp customers, non-integrated mills.

正如我在演講中提到的，自六月以來，中國的訂單量一直非常高。而7月份，這一水準在我們投資組合中的各類客戶中都達到了異常高的水平。所以我談論的是常規的紙漿客戶，非綜合工廠。

I'm also talking about integrated Pulp and Paper mills who, obviously, as a consequence of this higher pattern in Pulp purchases, should be reducing their pulp production. And also, even as per our knowledge, traders in the market already starting a restocking pattern.

我還談到了綜合紙漿和造紙廠，顯然，由於紙漿採購量增加，這些工廠應該減少紙漿產量。而且，據我們所知，市場上的交易商已經開始補貨模式。

When we see also that cross with the production levels in China, which in July, showed recovery to most grades. And as we come into what is now the highest seasonality period of the year in terms of paper production and pulp consumption, we see a scenario that is supportive.

我們也看到，與中國 7 月的生產水準相比，大多數等級的生產水平均有所回升。隨著我們進入一年中紙張生產和紙漿消費量最高的季節性時期，我們看到了一個有利的情況。

And added to that, the unexpected events that we're tracking in terms of flex capacity to dissolving pulp, extended maintenance downtime and commercial time -- and commercial downtimes. And our belief that this is just the beginning of a big cycle of commercial downtimes due to the fact that 15% of all pulp production today is on the water that led us to decide this price increase for China and for all other Asian markets as well.

除此之外，我們還在追蹤溶解漿的靈活容量、延長維護停機時間和商業時間以及商業停機時間的意外事件。我們認為，這只是商業停工大周期的開始，因為目前 15% 的紙漿生產是在水上進行的，這促使我們決定提高中國以及所有其他亞洲市場的價格。

Regarding other markets, also part of your question, we're analyzing that as we speak. And we -- as this is a commodity, we believe that similar trends should follow suit in the following weeks or months.

關於其他市場，這也是您問題的一部分，我們正在分析。而且我們——由於這是一種商品，我們相信類似的趨勢在接下來的幾週或幾個月內也會出現。

Regarding Qingming, our evaluation of the news that we read yesterday is not very different than what we were hearing before, as we have been tracking. As of November last year, they started to halt their production and then completely by December, but there is a huge political push for the restarting or for solving the issue at the Qingming mill or mills, right, the five mills that are part of the Qingming group.

關於清明，我們對昨天看到的消息的評價和之前聽到的沒有太大區別，因為我們一直在跟踪。從去年 11 月開始，他們開始停產，到 12 月完全停產，但巨大的政治壓力促使清明鋼廠（或隸屬於清明集團的五家鋼廠）重啟生產或解決問題。

Our knowledge is that this financial deal that was disclosed yesterday is focused a lot on the Shuang plant, which is a big paper producing plant. And most of it is to revamp paper machines. So in the beginning, I actually believe that this will be positive to the pulp market as they will be consuming market pulp rather than vertically integrating as they have done in the past.

據我們所知，昨天披露的這筆金融交易主要集中在雙廠，這是一家大型造紙廠。其中大部分用於改造造紙機。因此，一開始，我實際上相信這對紙漿市場來說是有利的，因為他們將消費市場紙漿，而不是像過去那樣進行垂直整合。

Our analysis also shows that this amount of money is extremely a small compared to all the finance that they need to recover, recoup all the idle machines that have stopped since December. And idling a stop machine either paper, and even more difficultly, pulp is not easy. So that involves a lot of time invest -- involves a lot of money, a lot of effort to return to the former patterns of production.

我們的分析還表明，與恢復、收回自 12 月以來停產的所有閒置機器所需的所有資金相比，這筆錢是極少的。而且空轉一停機器既不能造紙，又不能製漿，更是不容易。因此，要恢復先前的生產模式，需要投入大量的時間、大量的金錢和精力。

Also, restarting in a moment where paper, new paper machines, new printing writing paper machines have started, some of them integrated, it is very difficult. I think that will pose a big challenge to whatever action is taken, even at the smaller fraction of what is or what used to be Qingmings or what used to be Qingming.

此外，在紙張、新造紙機、新印刷書寫紙機都已啟動（其中一些是整合的）的情況下重新啟動是非常困難的。我認為，無論採取什麼行動，這都將是一個巨大的挑戰，即使只是在現在或過去的清明節期間採取的較小一部分行動。

But most importantly, and this check I did today, early morning, prior to our call, talking to our Qingming customers who used to compete against Qingming, our customers don't see any effect in the short term; are not worried at all about yesterday's news, and are confident about the short-term fundamentals that I mentioned previously.

但最重要的是，今天早上我在打電話之前做了檢查，與曾經與清明競爭的清明客戶進行了交談，我們的客戶在短期內沒有看到任何影響；他們根本不擔心昨天的消息，並且對我之前提到的短期基本面充滿信心。

That's great. And sorry, my question was in Portuguese. Sorry about that.

那太棒了。抱歉，我的問題是葡萄牙語的。很抱歉。

No worries. Marcos here answering your first question, which was regarding the internal rate of return of the deal that we announced with Eldorado. I'll try to explain you the rationale here and you understand where the levers are coming from.

不用擔心。馬科斯在這裡回答您的第一個問題，即關於我們與 Eldorado 宣布的交易的內部收益率。我會試著向您解釋這裡的理由，讓您了解槓桿來自哪裡。

So first, we want to make sure that we have our whole harvesting base for the [Mucuri] established already. However, we were running before, probably, with an average life of -- average age of our forestry a little bit below the optimal level. With this deal, we can push the average life of our forestry to the optimum level and this will optimize our CapEx and OpEx in the region.

因此，首先，我們要確保我們已經建立了整個 [Mucuri] 採伐基地。然而，我們之前的運營，可能，我們的森林的平均壽命——平均年齡略低於最佳水平。透過這筆交易，我們可以將林業的平均壽命提升到最佳水平，這將優化我們在該地區的資本支出和營運支出。

So by having the right age when we're harvesting, we will be able to reduce our harvesting area so we will operate also in a more concentrated area, which will reduce our logistic cost and then operating costs as well. By having a -- by being able to cut wood at a more mature age, we will have the ability to reduce our specific consumption at our mills, which also reduce our industrial cost.

因此，透過選擇合適的樹齡進行採伐，我們將能夠減少採伐面積，從而可以在更集中的區域進行作業，這將降低我們的物流成本和營運成本。透過能夠在更成熟的年齡砍伐木材，我們將能夠減少工廠的特定消耗，從而降低我們的工業成本。

On the CapEx avoidance side, as we are cutting less area or harvesting less area, we also reduce our planting effort, reducing our CapEx on the forestry formation. And we will be able to reduce also the amount of wood that we buy from third parties.

在資本支出避免方面，由於我們砍伐的面積或收穫的面積較少，我們也減少了種植工作，從而減少了林業形成的資本支出。我們還可以減少從第三方購買的木材數量。

So when we combine all those benefits, we get to internal rate of return by reducing our CapEx and reducing our OpEx of around 20% level. And I'd like to highlight that these returns could be even higher if we have the ability to increase the production at our Riba's mill, as Alberto mentioned, that is running a little bit above what we were expecting before. And of course, we will only do that if we have a healthy price environment at the moment.

因此，當我們將所有這些好處結合起來時，我們可以透過降低資本支出和降低約 20% 的營運支出來獲得內部報酬率。我想強調的是，如果我們有能力提高 Riba 工廠的產量，這些回報可能會更高，正如 Alberto 所提到的那樣，這比我們之前的預期要高一點。當然，只有當前價格環境健康，我們才會這麼做。

Just a quick follow up. Obviously, the production cut that you announced is probably not related to Mucuri, but this is the third year. Can we call it the structure now, the [3% 4%] cut, or you will continue to evaluate year by year?

只是快速跟進一下。顯然，您宣布的減產可能與穆庫裡無關，但這已經是第三年了。我們現在可以稱之為結構性削減，即[3% 4%]削減，還是您會逐年繼續評估？

We don't disclose the regions where we are -- the regions where the places that we are reducing production. But you can consider that we have a very detailed analysis on mill by mill, and also on each type of wood that we have on every mill.

我們不會透露我們所在的地區——我們正在減少生產的地區。但您可以考慮到，我們對每個工廠都進行了非常詳細的分析，並且對每個工廠的每種木材都進行了非常詳細的分析。

So we categorize all of our costs by own land by leased land and also by wood that we buy from third party. And also we have clusters in each of those types of wood, depending on the logistic cost. So if we have a short distance, a medium distance, and a high a longer distance from the forest to the mill.

因此，我們將所有成本按自有土地、租賃土地以及從第三方購買的木材進行分類。而且，根據物流成本，我們對每種木材都有不同的分類。因此，如果從森林到工廠的距離為短距離、中距離和長距離，則為長距離。

By doing this matrix, we get that we have today close to 3% to 4% of our production that is well above the average of our cash cost that is generating cash at this moment but not meaningful returns for the company. And that's why we decided to -- in this type of environment, to reduce production and this will have a minimal impact on EBITDA for the company.

透過這個矩陣，我們得到今天我們生產的接近 3% 到 4%，這遠高於我們目前產生的現金成本的平均水平，但並沒有為公司帶來有意義的回報。這就是為什麼我們決定在這種環境下減少產量，這將對公司的 EBITDA 產生最小的影響。

Rafael Barcellos, Bradesco BBI.

拉斐爾·巴塞洛斯，布拉德斯科 BBI。

My first question is for Alberto. Alberto, you mentioned in the beginning of your speech that Ribas could produce more going forward without a significant investment. So firstly, I wanted to confirm the number. I understand that you mentioned between 100,000 and 150,000 tons more? And also I wanted to understand more about the timing of this addition.

我的第一個問題是問阿爾貝託的。阿爾貝托，您在演講開始時提到，Ribas 無需大量投資就能在未來實現更多產量。所以首先，我想確認一下這個號碼。我理解您提到了增加 10 萬至 15 萬噸？我也想更多地了解這次添加的時間。

Other than that, in this context, since I understand, I mean, as Marcos just said, the company will rationalize production levels depending on market conditions. Could you please just e elaborate a bit more on what should be seen as a normalized production level going forward if we enter into a scenario of full prices below the $550 per ton level for a bit longer or, in the end, I mean, if this recent production cut announcement already considers this scenario? Just to understand better the assumption here.

除此之外，在這種情況下，因為我理解，我的意思是，正如馬科斯剛才所說，公司將根據市場情況合理化生產水平。如果我們進入價格低於每噸 550 美元的水平一段時間，或者，如果最近的減產公告已經考慮到這種情況，那麼未來應該將什麼視為正常的生產水平？能否詳細說明一下？只是為了更好地理解這裡的假設。

And then my second question. It is about your packaging business in the US. You mentioned that in the third queue, you mentioned that the third queue should mark the first quarter of a positive EBITDA. So could you please give more color on the main opportunities that you have already?

然後是我的第二個問題。這是關於您在美國的包裝業務。您提到在第三個佇列中，您提到第三個佇列應該標誌著正 EBITDA 的第一個季度。那麼，您能否詳細介紹您已經擁有的主要機會？

I didn't find it in the US Packaging market. And of course, what could -- what we could consider in terms of a potential profitability and organic growth in the region? And lastly, whether are you analyzing any further significant investments in the region?

我沒有在美國包裝市場上找到它。當然，我們可以考慮該地區的潛在獲利能力和有機成長嗎？最後，您是否正在分析該地區的任何進一步重大投資？

Rafael, thank you for the question. Let me go first the question related to the capacity of Ribas. Firstly, just to be very clear, any additional production at Ribas mill does not request any CapEx. There's no bottleneck to be discussed. This is just the way that we are running the mill at this time.

拉斐爾，謝謝你的提問。我首先要問的是有關 Ribas 身份的問題。首先，需要明確的是，Ribas 工廠的任何額外生產都不需要任何資本支出。不存在需要討論的瓶頸。這正是我們目前運作的方式。

So the Ribas mill is already running at full capacity. Remember that the business case and nominal capacity that we were considering for the mill was 2.55 million tons. And we have been learning that we can produce more -- and again, this is something between 100,000 and 150,000 tons per year, exactly with the same mill that we have today with no further investment. This is just about a mill that's performing better than we expected. So that's the point here.

因此，Ribas 工廠已滿載運轉。請記住，我們為該工廠考慮的商業案例和標稱產能是 255 萬噸。而且我們了解到，我們可以生產更多——再次強調，這個數字是每年 10 萬至 15 萬噸，而且只需使用我們現有的同一工廠，無需進一步投資。這只是一個表現比我們預期更好的工廠。這就是重點。

And when this extra production can be executed, we will, of course, depend on the business environment. So we can do this in the next quarters depending on the business environment. So that's why having the optionality of extra wood, in case we decide to increase production, is also a very important benefit from the deal that we just announced.

當然，何時能夠實現這些額外的生產，取決於商業環境。因此，我們可以根據商業環境在接下來的幾個季度內做到這一點。因此，如果我們決定增加產量，那麼擁有額外木材的選擇權也是我們剛剛宣布的協議的一個非常重要的好處。

And Rafael, just to compliment, we don't provide the guidance on production, but what you can consider is that we were producing at full capacity. And now, we announced that this 3.5% production reduction, which is equivalent to 450,000 tons, and we're starting that as of now. 450,000 reduction is for 12 months.

拉斐爾，補充一下，我們沒有提供生產指導，但你可以考慮到我們當時正在滿載生產。現在，我們宣布減產 3.5%，相當於 45 萬噸，我們從現在開始實施。 45 萬噸的減產將持續 12 個月。

Fabio here. I'm going to take your second question about our Packaging business in the United States. As I have been mentioning to you, our main focus has been on driving our cash cost down at the mill. And after, our annual maintenance shutdown, our focus now is to have lower cost moving forward.

法比奧在這裡。我將回答您關於我們在美國的包裝業務的第二個問題。正如我一直向您提到的，我們的主要重點是降低工廠的現金成本。在我們每年進行維護停機之後，我們現在的重點是降低成本。

We have some projects internally that will help us to keep pushing the cost down and also better runability as we expect in the second half of the year. As in the market, we have contractual price increases that it's going to be ticking up in the second half of this year. This has been contracted when we renew our contracts at the end of last year, so part of the price increase are going to come to life now in the second half. That's going to help.

我們內部有一些專案可以幫助我們繼續降低成本，並提高下半年的運作能力。正如市場情況一樣，我們的合約價格有所上漲，預計今年下半年價格還會上漲。這是我們去年年底續約時就已經約定好的，所以部分價格上漲將在下半年反映出來。這會有幫助的。

And regarding opportunities, we're expanding our markets that we serve. So this mill was mainly serving liquid packaging board. We're now growing to food service. Just to give you a number, our sales for cup stock has grown almost 200% when compared to the same period of last year. So we're trying also to broaden our product portfolio markets that we serve.

至於機遇，我們正在擴大我們所服務的市場。因此該工廠主要生產液體包裝紙板。我們現在正在向食品服務領域發展。舉個數字，與去年同期相比，我們的杯子庫存銷售額增加了近 200%。因此，我們也在努力擴大我們所服務的產品組合市場。

And for sure, we have opportunities that we're looking at the market as we always do in all the markets that Suzano works. And -- but we're only going to pursue anything, as Alberto has mentioned in the beginning of the call, if we have the right return for the company, so that's it.

當然，我們有機會觀察市場，就像我們在 Suzano 工作的所有市場中所做的那樣。而且 — — 但正如 Alberto 在電話會議開始時所提到的那樣，我們只會追求我們能為公司帶來正確回報的事情，就是這樣。

Just a quick follow up on this US Packaging business. When are you expecting to capture the full benefit of all of these initiatives?

只是對這個美國包裝業務進行快速跟進。您預計何時能夠充分享受這些措施帶來的好處？

We have a plan that -- until the end of -- it's going to be second half of this year. It's going to be much better than the first half. And then, full capture 2026. And then after that, we still have ways of improving our profitability there, but that's probably is going to require some CapEx that we need to discuss internally here.

我們有一個計劃——直到今年下半年結束。這會比上半場好得多。然後，全面佔領2026年。在此之後，我們仍然有辦法提高獲利能力，但這可能需要一些資本支出，我們需要在這裡進行內部討論。

Leonardo Correa, BTG.

萊昂納多·科雷亞，BTG。

Yeah. So a couple questions on my side, the first one more on market-related topics. And the second one on more of a company specific issue. So starting with the market question.

是的。我這邊有幾個問題，第一個問題與市場相關。第二個問題則更涉及公司具體問題。因此從市場問題開始。

Moving back to the big discussion, maybe, of the day, right, on the capacity cuts. Given how the press prices had been over the past several months, which clearly seems unsustainably low, right? Suzano came out with this, let's say, with this message, right, on cutting capacity. And as always, we're waiting for others to follow, right?

回到今天的熱門討論，關於產能削減。考慮到過去幾個月的印刷價格，這顯然看起來低得難以維持，對嗎？蘇札諾發表了這個，可以說，關於削減產能的這個訊息。像往常一樣，我們正在等待其他人效仿，對嗎？

Just given how needed these supply cuts are, I just wanted to hear what you're seeing, right? I mean, you mentioned about Brazil switching to dissolving. We obviously saw Suzano. But what else are you seeing in the market, right? You're talking about imminent cuts.

考慮到削減供應的必要性，我只是想聽聽您的看法，對嗎？我的意思是，您提到了巴西轉向解散。我們顯然看到了蘇扎諾。但是您在市場上還看到了什麼？對嗎？您正在談論即將發生的削減。

From our side, we haven't really seen that much to justify, let's say, a V-shape recovery in prices. So any additional color you can give us on how you're seeing the supply rationalization in the industry would be very helpful.

從我們的角度來看，我們還沒有看到太多跡象表明價格會出現 V 型復甦。因此，如果您能向我們提供關於您如何看待該行業供應合理化的額外信息，那將會非常有幫助。

The second question, Alberto, it caught my attention how strong the message was on your side, specifically on cost performance, going forward into the second semester, right? Which makes me wonder, if I'm not mistaken, the cash cost guidance for the year in Pulp is about BRL810 and BRL815 per ton. Would you see any room -- and Aires, I know this is your territory here, if you can elaborate as well. If you guys see any room for potentially reducing that level, let's say, below BRL800 per ton over the year?

第二個問題，阿爾貝托，我注意到，您傳達的訊息有多強烈，特別是在成本績效方面，進入第二學期，對嗎？這讓我感到疑惑，如果沒記錯的話，今年紙漿的現金成本指導價約為每噸 810 巴西雷亞爾至 815 巴西雷亞爾。您會看到任何房間嗎？ ——艾利斯，我知道這是您的地盤，如果您能詳細說明的話。你們是否認為有可能降低這一水平，比如說，全年降至每噸 800 巴西雷亞爾以下？

I will start with your questions related to unexpected events affecting the book market. And again, it's important to state this number, which I think is extremely expressed, which is that 7.4 million tons today, as per info of official consultancy on the cash cost of hardwood producers, is below the water as we speak. 7.4 million tons, 15% of all hardwood production capacity in the world is below water.

我先從影響圖書市場的意外事件的問題開始。再次強調，必須指出這個數字，我認為這個數字非常明確，即根據官方諮詢機構關於硬木生產商現金成本的信息，目前有 740 萬噸處於缺口之下。 740 萬噸，佔全球硬木生產能力的 15%，處於缺口之下。

And has -- and many part -- a big part of that has been for more than or close to 10 months, right? So this is really shocking when you analyze that directly. Our view is that it's -- we're still seeing a smaller part of what unexpected events and commercial shutdowns should be.

其中很大一部分已經持續了超過或接近 10 個月了，對嗎？所以當你直接分析時，這確實令人震驚。我們的觀點是——我們仍然只看到了意外事件和商業停工應該發生的一小部分。

And the main reason in our interpretation is that all the uncertainties on tariffs made producers take longer to decide what they would do, as there was a lot of instability and uncertainty of what would shape the world after at least the second waves of clear decisions and discussions on tariffs. Even higher producers were keeping their productions going because, eventually, they could end up with a favorable slot or opportunity and to tackle.

我們解讀的主要原因是，關稅方面的所有不確定性使得生產商需要更長的時間來決定他們將採取什麼行動，因為至少在第二波明確的關稅決策和討論之後，世界將面臨很多不穩定和不確定性。甚至更高級的製作人也在繼續製作，因為最終他們可以獲得有利的位置或機會並加以利用。

Now that the scenario is getting clearer and clearer, and I believe, personally, that we should see a much more accelerated level of commercial downtimes being announced as we speak because, again, this scenario is completely unsustainable.

現在情況越來越清晰，我個人認為，我們應該看到商業停駛速度加快，因為這種情況是完全不可持續的。

It's a challenge to see any rooms to deliver, on average, a cash cost below BRL800 per ton in this year, especially, when we see our results in the first half. But to deliver our target, that is, roughly BRL810 per ton, we should performance -- on a rate lower than BRL800 per ton in some quarter in the second half.

今年，任何房間都很難實現平均每噸低於 800 巴西雷亞爾的現金成本，尤其是當我們看到上半年的業績時。但為了實現我們的目標，大約每噸 810 巴西雷亞爾，我們應該在下半年的某個季度以低於每噸 800 巴西雷亞爾的價格執行。

And in our expectation for this that's -- bring part of the returns that we have for a deal with Eldorado, as that Alberto mentioned that we intend that to reduce our wood consumption, wood loss, and reduce the average wages of our forest logging to the second half, especially in the last quarter. I know, and you believe that this wood will be delivered at the facilities.

我們對此的期望是 - 帶來我們與 Eldorado 達成協議的部分回報，正如 Alberto 所提到的，我們打算在下半年，特別是最後一個季度減少木材消耗、木材損失，並降低森林砍伐的平均工資。我知道，而且你相信這些木材將會被運送到設施處。

And this performance of a lower BRL800 per ton, especially in the last quarter, the fourth quarter, we understand that will be our normal performance for coming quarters. Of course, it could be affected by FX and some cost for incomes, especially for some chemicals, especially caustica soda and natural gas, but remain the same conditions. We are able to deliver this new performance of second half in our routine the next quarters or coming years.

每噸價格下降 800 巴西雷亞爾，尤其是在上個季度，即第四季度，我們知道這將是我們未來幾季的正常表現。當然，它可能會受到外匯和一些收入成本的影響，特別是對於一些化學品，尤其是苛性鈉和天然氣，但條件保持不變。我們能夠在接下來的幾季或未來幾年的常規工作中實現下半年的新業績。

Yeah, Leo, just building what I just said, you are completely right. We are very confident regarding the trend of cost reduction for the next quarter, as I mentioned before. I just want to mention that we are talking here about cash cost, but in the end of the day, we are looking for the whole thing. We are looking for the total operation disbursement for the company.

是的，Leo，根據我剛才的說法，你完全正確。正如我之前提到的，我們對下一季的成本下降趨勢非常有信心。我只是想說，我們在這裡談論的是現金成本，但最終，我們尋求的是整體。我們正在尋找該公司的總營運支出。

And we are also looking ahead. We want to enter 2026 with the cost base lower than the one that we have in 2025. At the end of the day, this is our objective. And this is absolutely in line with what we have been saying regarding our focus on increasing the level of competitiveness of the business.

我們也在展望未來。我們希望在 2026 年時成本基礎會低於 2025 年的成本基礎。歸根究底，這就是我們的目標。這與我們一直以來強調的提高企業競爭力的理念完全一致。

So that's what behind everything that we have been saying regarding cost. This is a clear priority for the company. And again, not only related to wood cost, not only related to industrial cost, but related to the total operation disbursement of the company.

這就是我們所說的有關成本的一切背後的原因。這對公司來說顯然是優先事項。再次強調，這不僅與木材成本有關，不僅與工業成本有關，還與公司的總營運支出有關。

Rodolfo Angele, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Rodolfo Angele。

So my first question is on the consequence of the transaction and with Eldorado. I wanted to hear from you what to expect on the CapEx side. So I think for investors the story of Suzano, is of a company that's entering a period where it's going to basically harvest the benefits of the CapEx that was done in the past year.

所以我的第一個問題是關於交易以及與 Eldorado 的後果。我想聽聽您對資本支出的預期。因此，我認為對於投資者來說，Suzano 的故事表明，這家公司正在進入一個基本上可以收穫去年資本支出收益的時期。

And it's supposed to be a successful story, which is starting to show, but of course, every time there is an additional CapEx or an eminent transaction, you dance a little bit that part of the story, even though, as you explained so far, everything made a lot of sense. So my question is for 2026, is it reasonable to expect the CapEx spending lower? And if you could elaborate a little bit on that.

這應該是一個成功的故事，這一點已經開始顯現，但當然，每次有額外的資本支出或重大交易時，你都會對故事的這一部分進行一些改動，儘管正如你目前所解釋的那樣，一切都很有道理。所以我的問題是，對於 2026 年來說，預期資本支出降低是否合理？您能否對此進行詳細說明？

And my second question is a bit more, I guess, strategic. And this one is too bad. It's been a year more or less, or a little bit more, I guess, since you've been leading the company. A lot has happened, right? Both on specific things that was not good involved with, plus the market has been quite a roller coaster ride.

我想，我的第二個問題更具策略性。這個太糟糕了。我想，您領導這家公司已經有一年多了，或者差不多一年了。發生了很多事，對吧？兩者都涉及一些不太好的具體事情，而且市場就像坐過山車一樣。

So looking forward, what should we expect? Can we expect a little bit of a breather and sit back, relax a little bit? Or is there something else in the management's agenda looking forward? And that's all from me.

那麼展望未來，我們該期待什麼呢？我們能不能稍微休息一下，坐下來，放鬆一下？或者管理階層的議程中還有其他期待的事情？我要說的就這些。

Marcos here. So on CapEx for 2026, we haven't disclosed yet our CapEx. We'll update you with the number as we run through our budget process which will start in October. And we will give you the full disclosure of CaPex for 2026 or at our Suzano Day in December.

我是馬科斯。因此，對於 2026 年的資本支出，我們尚未揭露我們的資本支出。我們將在十月開始的預算過程中向您更新該數字。我們將在 2026 年或 12 月的 Suzano Day 上向您全面披露 CaPex 的情況。

However, you're right, like, we should be considering reducing our CapEx as a trend. Of course, every now and then, there could be opportunities like the one that we just announced today, that might increase our OpEx but with very decent returns. So we will update you with the number, but the trend, it should be for declining CapEx going forward.

但是，您說得對，我們應該考慮將減少資本支出作為一種趨勢。當然，時不時地，可能會出現像我們今天剛剛宣布的那樣的機會，這可能會增加我們的營運支出，但帶來非常可觀的回報。因此，我們將向您更新數字，但趨勢應該是未來資本支出下降。

Rodolfo, regarding your question, I don't see any moment to relax, to be very honest, in the business in the future. This is the natural of the business, the natural of the environment, of a global company. Geopolitical, seems that we'll be more and more, let's say, in stable in the next couple of years, so we must be awake and we must work with different scenarios.

羅道夫，關於你的問題，坦白說，我認為未來在業務上沒有任何放鬆的時刻。這是全球性公司業務的自然法則、環境的自然法則。地緣政治似乎在未來幾年會越來越穩定，所以我們必須保持警惕，必須應對不同的情況。

And we want to be prepared for those different scenarios so. That's why we have to be very concentrated and doing very well, which is under our control. And again, that's why we are talking all the time about competitiveness, about making sure that everything that we can control, we can do it in the best-of-class way.

因此，我們希望為這些不同的情況做好準備。這就是為什麼我們必須高度集中精力，把事情做好，這在我們的掌控之中。這就是為什麼我們一直在談論競爭力，確保我們能夠控制的一切，我們都能以一流的方式去做。

So we also are trying to, again, focus only on initiatives that can bring the level of return, the level of right that we aim to the business. So that's why we take those kind of decisions as capacity at bringing and pursuing alternatives and deals that can bring a high level of return for the business.

因此，我們也試圖再次只關注那些能為企業帶來回報水準和正確水準的舉措。因此，我們將這些決策視為一種能力，以便為企業帶來和尋求能夠帶來高回報的替代方案和交易。

And the focus will be, again, as I have been saying, deleveraging. This is a clear focus for the organization. And making sure that we what we have in the pipeline, which is Pine Bluff, that by the way, is going to operate with double-digit positive EBITDA during 2025, which is a clear turnaround that Fabio and the team has been able to made. And making sure that the transition process of the JV with KC can be implemented on the very good way.

正如我一直說的，重點仍是去槓桿。這是該組織的一個明確重點。並確保我們正在籌備的項目，也就是 Pine Bluff，在 2025 年將實現兩位數的正 EBITDA，這是 Fabio 和團隊能夠實現的明顯轉變。並確保與KC的合資企業的過渡過程能夠順利實施。

So this is not putting any further initiatives in the pipeline. So -- but I don't think we have the right to relax because the business environment and stuff, as it is a roller coaster, as you mentioned. And we want to be prepared for any kind of scenarios that we can face in the future. But anyway, thank you very much for your question.

因此，這不會引發任何進一步的舉措。所以——但我不認為我們有權利放鬆，因為商業環境和其他東西就像過山車一樣，正如你所提到的。我們希望為未來可能面臨的任何情況做好準備。但無論如何，非常感謝您的提問。

Daniel Sasson, Itau BBA.

丹尼爾·薩森（Daniel Sasson），伊塔烏 BBA。

My first question is related to the tariff uncertainty that we saw over the past few weeks with the potential of how do the imports into the US going to 50%. In the end, it was -- the final decision was to not increase to 50%, but as per my understanding, it's exports to the US are going to be subject to a 10% tariff that didn't exist before, right?

我的第一個問題與過去幾週我們看到的關稅不確定性有關，美國的進口量可能會達到 50%。最後，最終決定是不增加到 50%，但據我了解，其對美國的出口將徵收以前不存在的 10% 關稅，對嗎？

So I guess my question is, have you seen any impacts in your order book, specifically in North America, because of these uncertainties? Could that harm your volumes in the third quarter? Has that already been normalized? And ultimately, who bear the -- this 10% tariff that I think didn't exist before, right?

所以我想我的問題是，由於這些不確定性，您是否看到您的訂單受到了影響，特別是在北美？這會影響你們第三季的銷售嗎？這已經正常化了嗎？最終，誰來承擔——這個我認為以前不存在的 10% 關稅，對吧？

Are you engaging in one-on-one negotiations with your main clients in the US? I know that you have some very big long-term clients there. How are these negotiations going?

您是否正在與美國的主要客戶進行一對一的談判？我知道你們在那裡有一些非常大的長期客戶。這些談判進展如何？

And my second question is just if you could give us a, an update on the Kimberly-Clark acquisition. Have there or did -- have there been any new developments there in terms of the expected timeline for this deal to be closed? Or have you started working with the -- do you have already a clean team to help in the integration of those assets? Or you're going to think about that only after the deal is super close to being approved? Any new info you can give us on that front would be great.

我的第二個問題是，您能否向我們介紹一下金佰利收購案的最新進展。就該交易預計完成的時間表而言，是否有任何新的進展？或者您已經開始與—您是否已經有一個乾淨的團隊來幫助整合這些資產？或者您只會在交易即將獲得批准後才會考慮這個問題？如果您能就此向我們提供任何新信息，我們將非常感激。

Daniel, this is Leo here to tackle your questions about tariffs. And just, before coming into the 10% tariffs, obviously, we were relieved with the news that pulp, Brazilian Pulp, [hardened] pulp was out of this new tariffs to Brazilian exports into the US.

丹尼爾，我是利奧，來解答您關於關稅的問題。在實施 10% 關稅之前，我們很顯然很高興地得知，巴西紙漿、[硬化]紙漿已不受巴西出口到美國的新關稅限制。

At the same time, we trust our ability to reshuffle volumes around as pulp is a commodity. But we were relieved because we have very, very long-term commitments to customers in the US, tissue producers who are producing the best brands in the market, the most recognized brands in the market, with specific pulps being developed together with them from Suzano, and previously, the companies that are now Suzano.

同時，我們相信我們有能力重新調整產量，因為紙漿是一種商品。但我們感到欣慰，因為我們對美國客戶有著非常長期的承諾，這些衛生紙生產商生產市場上最好的品牌、市場上最受認可的品牌，Suzano 以及之前的 Suzano 公司正在與他們共同開發特定的紙漿。

And to ensure that these products have the qualities that the US consumers are so used to. So this would be, I would say, harmful, in that sense of having lost that commitments and we're happy that that didn't happen.

並確保這些產品具有美國消費者所習慣的品質。所以，我想說，從失去承諾的意義上來說，這是有害的，我們很高興這種情況沒有發生。

Our order books to the US are normalized. As you know, we are mainly selling to tissue producers and tissue have posed a very stable demand and sales pattern in North America. We don't see any shifts or directional moves that would bring us off our plans for Q3 or Q4, going forward. So I expect normality. Again, these are extremely, long-term contracts where Suzano even manages the inventories of both inside each and every mill of these customers who, in most cases, are exclusive to Suzano.

我們對美國的訂單已經正常化。如您所知，我們主要向紙巾生產商銷售紙巾，並且紙巾在北美具有非常穩定的需求和銷售模式。我們認為，未來不會有任何轉變或方向性舉措導致我們偏離第三季或第四季的計畫。所以我期待一切正常。再次強調，這些都是極其長期的合同，其中 Suzano 甚至管理這些客戶的每個工廠內的庫存，在大多數情況下，這些客戶都是 Suzano 的獨家客戶。

Regarding the 10% tariffs implementation. We have successfully negotiated with customers that they're going to pay for the 10% tariff. Suzano is not going to take this burden. So going forward, unfortunately, this effect will eventually come up to American consumers and Suzano will not be taking this toll.

關於10%關稅的實施。我們已經成功與客戶協商，他們將支付 10% 的關稅。蘇札諾不會承擔這個負擔。因此，不幸的是，展望未來，這種影響最終將影響美國消費者，而 Suzano 不會承擔這種損失。

This is Luis. Thanks for your question regarding the JV with KC. Both Suzano and KC have already created dedicated teams, very senior and dedicated teams, to plan the carveout of this new JV. We had already kicked off the project, meeting all the teams together. The project is going as planned and we look forward to close the operation on the third quarter of 2026.

這是路易斯。感謝您提出有關與 KC 的合資問題。Suzano 和 KC 都已經組建了專門的團隊，非常資深和敬業的團隊，來規劃這家新合資企業的分拆。我們已經啟動了這個項目，並與所有團隊進行了會面。該項目正在按計劃進行，我們期待在 2026 年第三季完成營運。

Eugenia Cavalheiro, Morgan Stanley.

尤金妮亞·卡瓦列羅，摩根士丹利。

Two questions on my side. The first is regarding the fiber-to-fiber transition. And if you can update us on what you have been seeing on that front, particularly, given the higher spread between the two fibers that we see. So how are your customers adopting that and how has this been evolving?

我有兩個問題。第一個是關於光纖到光纖的轉換。如果您能告訴我們您在這方面看到的情況，特別是考慮到我們看到的兩種纖維之間的較大差異。那麼您的客戶如何採用這項技術以及它是如何發展的呢？

The second one would be on shareholder returns. So how are you seeing potential dividend payments and share buyback in light of the leveraging process, the M&A transactions that you have announced, the slightly increasing CapEx guidance for the year? So how have you been thinking about shareholder return in that scenario?

第二個是關於股東回報。那麼，考慮到槓桿過程、您宣布的併購交易以及今年略微增加的資本支出指導，您如何看待潛在的股息支付和股票回購？那麼，在這種情況下，您如何考慮股東回報？

This is Leo, again, to answer your question on fiber-to-fiber. We are very glad to be protagonists on this movements together with our customers. There's a huge customer engagement across all regions of the world and projects are being deployed as we speak.

我是 Leo，再次回答您關於光纖到光纖的問題。我們非常高興能與我們的客戶一起成為這項運動的主角。世界各地都有大量客戶參與，專案正在部署中。

Obviously, the high spreads between softwood and hardwood pulp, which I expect to be even higher looking forward, will benefit us in this initiative as our customers, obviously, are worried and seek better margins as they also support our fiber-to-fiber initiatives. And to conclude, I expect that what we'll see for 2025, is a trend much similar to the last three years rather than to the past years, where hardwood will gain over 1 percentage point market share over softwood again this year.

顯然，針葉木漿和闊葉木漿之間的價差很大（我預計未來價差會更高），這將使我們在這一舉措中受益，因為我們的客戶顯然​​很擔心並尋求更好的利潤，因為他們也支持我們的纖維到纖維計劃。總而言之，我預計 2025 年的趨勢將與過去三年非常相似，而不是過去幾年，今年硬木的市佔率將再次超過軟木 1 個百分點。

On shareholder returns, on dividends, we will continue to respect our policy, which is the minimum between 25% of our profits or 10% of our operating cash flow generation. And on buybacks, as we are very focused on deleveraging, we will probably have a less lower appetite for buybacks as we would rather prefer, and we will be very focused on deleveraging, the balance sheet of the company at this moment.

對於股東回報和股息，我們將繼續遵守我們的政策，即最低為利潤的 25% 或營運現金流的 10%。至於回購，由於我們非常注重去槓桿，因此我們對回購的興趣可能不會像我們期望的那樣低，而且我們目前將非常注重去槓桿，即公司的資產負債表。

Caio Ribeiro, Bank of America.

卡約·裡貝羅，美國銀行。

So my first one is on the recent announcement of higher anti-dumping duties and countervailing duties on top of Canadian lumber exports into the US, which we feel could have the potential to increase the cost of wood chips in the region, potentially, raise the cost of pulp production in the British Columbia region, which has already been under a lot of pressure on their current price levels, right? So I just wanted to see if you agree with that assessment and whether that could generate an opportunity for you in the region in the US in terms of gaining market share from the British Columbia producers?

因此，我的第一個問題是關於最近宣布對加拿大出口到美國的木材徵收更高的反傾銷稅和反補貼稅，我們認為這可能會增加該地區木片的成本，並有可能提高不列顛哥倫比亞地區的紙漿生產成本，而該地區目前的價格水平已經承受了很大的壓力，對嗎？所以我只是想看看您是否同意該評估，以及這是否可以為您在美國地區創造機會，從不列顛哥倫比亞省的生產商那裡獲得市場份額？

And then secondly, going back to the tissue assets that were part of the transaction with Kimberly-Clark. Since the last call, we provided a lot of details on those assets. I imagine you've had some time to analyze those assets further.

其次，回到與金佰利克拉克交易中的組織資產。自上次通話以來，我們提供了有關這些資產的大量詳細資訊。我想您已經有時間進一步分析這些資產了。

I just wanted to see if you still see those synergies of close to $175 million is still feasible to achieve? And whether you have identified additional opportunities within those assets to improve profitability? And if yes, what those initiatives could be and what they could generate in terms of additional gains.

我只是想看看您是否仍然認為接近 1.75 億美元的協同效應仍然可行？您是否已經發現了這些資產中其他提高獲利能力的機會？如果是的話，這些舉措是什麼以及它們可以產生什麼額外收益。

Without having and wanting to come into the merit if I agree or not with it, we are following and monitoring several actions that are still in place and what's being done by the US government as we speak, right? So we have this issue on higher tariffs for Canadian wood, which precedes President Trump. So obviously, that can benefit softwood producers in other regions of the world and, to a smaller part, hardwood producers as well.

無論我是否同意，我們都在關注和監督仍在進行的幾項行動以及美國政府正在做的事情，對嗎？因此，我們在川普總統上任之前就面臨著提高加拿大木材關稅的問題。顯然，這可以使世界其他地區的軟木生產商受益，並且在一定程度上也可以使硬木生產商受益。

And by the end of the day, as Eugenia asked, fiber-to-fiber as an alternative to higher cost wood and higher cost softwood. There's also Section 232, and all the investigations being done in that sense then wood in a much broader basis rather than only Canadian. And also Section 301 investigations in place.

最終，正如尤金妮亞所問的那樣，纖維到纖維可以取代成本更高的木材和成本更高的軟木。還有第 232 條，所有從這個意義上進行的調查都是在更廣泛的基礎上進行的，而不僅僅是加拿大。且第 301 條調查也已到位。

So there's a lot of things going on. This is not -- I don't believe this is the end of all these turmoils and uncertainties as Alberto mentioned, we're in this roller coaster ride. But be assured that Suzano is well prepared, taking all actions and having all contingency plans to navigate whatever environment is in place.

所以有很多事情正在發生。這不是——我不相信這是所有這些動盪和不確定性的結束，正如阿爾貝託所提到的，我們正處於過山車般的旅程中。但請放心，蘇札諾已經做好了充分的準備，採取了一切行動，並制定了所有應急計劃來應對任何環境。

This is Luis. In this next phase of the JV project, we have more time to dig deeper and analyze more data. And what we can share with you is that we maintain the $175 million cost reduction opportunities and that as we move and analyze more data, we're more comfortable with that.

這是路易斯。在合資計畫的下一階段，我們將有更多時間深入研究和分析更多數據。我們可以與大家分享的是，我們保留了 1.75 億美元的成本削減機會，並且隨著我們移動和分析更多數據，我們對此更加滿意。

Yuri Pereira, Santander.

尤里·佩雷拉，桑坦德。

Regarding this 15% of the industry below water, just to check, it considers cash flow or cash cost only? In the case you are considering only cash costs, do you have any sensitivity about how many tons are below water in terms of cash flow?

關於該行業 15% 的低於水位的情況，只是想檢查一下，它只考慮現金流還是現金成本？如果您只考慮現金成本，那麼對於現金流而言，您對水下有多少噸水有敏感度嗎？

And regarding the spread between dissolving pulp and hardwood, it would be very helpful if you can provide us what's this spread now versus historical levels? And also if you have any outlook about it?

關於溶解漿和硬木之間的價差，如果您能告訴我們現在與歷史水平相比的價差是多少，那將會非常有幫助？您對此有什麼看法嗎？

This is Leo. I'll take both of your questions. This number that I mentioned, this 7.4 million tons below prices, current prices, and bleeding as we speak. This is cash costs delivered to Chinese ports. There is no consultancy information on the same analysis related to cash flow as you asked. Again, this is cash costs delivered to Chinese ports.

這是利奧。我會回答你的兩個問題。我提到的這個數字，低於目前價格 740 萬噸，而且就在我們說話的時候還在流失。這是運送至中國港口的現金成本。沒有關於您所詢問的與現金流量相關的相同分析的諮詢資訊。再次強調，這是運送至中國港口的現金成本。

And as we are now entering a phase where international prices all over the world are much aligned to Chinese's prices, and this analysis can be reflected to other zones or areas of the world as well. So that's why we believe that the situation has reached the point of being completely unsustainable.

現在我們正進入一個全球國際價格與中國價格趨於一致的階段，而這種分析也可以反映到世界其他地區或區域。因此我們認為局勢已經到了完全不可持續的地步。

The spread of dissolving to paper grade pulp exceeds the historic average of $200. It's declining. The price trend is also a decline in dissolving good pulp, but way above the historic $200 average. That is maybe the breakthrough of decision making between one or the other.

溶解到造紙級紙漿的價差超過了 200 美元的歷史平均值。它正在下降。溶解優質紙漿的價格趨勢也呈下降趨勢，但遠高於 200 美元的歷史平均值。這或許是雙方決策上的突破。

Thank you. The Q&A section is over. We would like to hand the floor back to Mr. Alberto Abreu for his final remarks.

謝謝。問答環節結束。我們想把發言權交還給阿爾貝托·阿布雷烏先生，請他做最後的發言。

Thank you. Before finishing, I want to remember all that our Suzano Investor Day this year will be on December 11, so please put in your agenda. I also would like to thank you for being here with us on the call today and for your interest in Suzano. And as always, our team remains available for any additional question that you may have, and I really wish you all a great day. Thank you very much.

謝謝。在結束之前，我想提醒大家，我們今年的 Suzano 投資者日將於 12 月 11 日舉行，因此請將其列入您的議程。我還要感謝您今天參加我們的電話會議以及您對 Suzano 的關注。像往常一樣，我們的團隊隨時準備好解答您的任何其他問題，我衷心祝福大家有個愉快的一天。非常感謝。

The Suzano SA second-quarter of the 2025 conference call is concluded. The Investor Relations Department is available to answer further questions you may have. Thank you and have a good day.

Suzano SA 2025年第二季電話會議結束。投資者關係部可以解答您可能有的更多問題。謝謝您，祝您有美好的一天。