Suzano SA (SUZ) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for holding, and welcome to Suzano's conference call to discuss the results for the second quarter of 2024. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的主持，並歡迎參加 Suzano 的電話會議，討論 2024 年第二季的業績。（操作員說明）

Before proceeding, please be aware that any forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs and assumptions of Suzano's management and non-information currently available to the company. They involve risks, uncertainties, and assumptions because they relate to future events and therefore depend on circumstances that may or may not occur in the future. You should understand that general economic conditions, industry conditions, and other operating factors could also affect the future results of Suzano and could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements.

在繼續之前，請注意，任何前瞻性陳述均基於 Suzano 管理層的信念和假設以及公司目前可獲得的非資訊。它們涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們與未來事件有關，因此取決於未來可能發生或不發生的情況。您應該了解，總體經濟狀況、行業狀況和其他營運因素也可能影響 Suzano 的未來業績，並可能導致結果與此類前瞻性陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。

Now, I will turn the conference over to Mr. Beto Abreu. Please, you may begin your conference.

現在，我將會議交給貝托·阿布魯先生主持。請開始您的會議。

Thank you. Hello, everyone. Very happy to be here interacting with all of you now, and now as part of the Suzano's team. And I really would like to thank you for all of you for attending the call.

謝謝。大家好。很高興現在作為 Suzano 團隊的一員來到這裡與大家互動。我真的要感謝大家參加這次電話會議。

So I will start here the presentation, and my first slide will be highlighting to you a couple of important achievements and movements on our -- related to our strategic avenues and implementation of our strategy. As you can see here, we made investment in two assets. The first one was in Lenzing in Austria. A good moment to understand and to test the market in Europe. Here we are talking about the textile market. And the other movement was in Pactiv in the US on the packaging business, also important movement to understand the market.

因此，我將從這裡開始演示，我的第一張投影片將向您重點介紹我們與我們的策略途徑和策略實施相關的一些重要成就和動態。正如您在這裡所看到的，我們投資了兩項資產。第一個是在奧地利的蘭精。這是了解和測試歐洲市場的好時機。這裡我們談論的是紡織市場。另一個動作是美國Pactiv的包裝業務，也是了解市場的重要動作。

The team here personally like the movements that we are doing. I think a few things it's important to share with you. The first one, it's an important movement with no impact in our balance sheet, but huge opportunity to understand those geographies and those markets. It's like we are testing the water on those geography and markets.

這裡的團隊個人喜歡我們正在做的動作。我認為有幾件事有必要與大家分享。第一個，這是一個重要的變動，對我們的資產負債表沒有影響，但卻是了解這些地區和市場的巨大機會。這就像我們正在對這些地理和市場進行試水。

The other one is how able we are to implement and to use all the knowledge that we have on those kind of operation to extract value. And of course, are also markets and segments that we can scale in the future. So that's those things that we'd like to share here.

另一個問題是我們如何能夠實施和使用我們在此類操作上擁有的所有知識來提取價值。當然，這也是我們未來可以擴展的市場和細分市場。這就是我們想在這裡分享的內容。

In the case of Lenzing, small acquisition which sits on the Board, enormous opportunity to understand the business and with a call for the future, if we decide to execute. In the case of Pactiv also, business with 420 thousand tons of capacity in the paperboard business. Also, a fair price to test the market, understand the environment and start planning other movements in the future. So that's the kind of movement that again, we understand that's the right one that was in our pipeline, and since last year and we are bringing now we should have the closing the last part of this year.

就蘭精而言，如果我們決定執行的話，董事會的小型收購將是了解業務並展望未來的巨大機會。Pactiv 的紙板業務產能也達到 42 萬噸。此外，還有一個公平的價格來測試市場，了解環境並開始規劃未來的其他動作。因此，我們知道這是我們正在醞釀中的正確運動，自去年以來，我們現在正在進行這種運動，我們應該在今年的最後一部分結束。

The other highlight that I also would like to share with you is the Cerrado project. All of you are familiar with, I would say that this is a unique milestone of the company that will bring us to even stronger position in terms of relevance in the market pool and also competitive advantage in terms of cost. And this is something that it's a kind of mantra for us that we will always keep in our agenda, is keeping our relevance in the market pool and also keep working very hard every day on the cash cost to keep our level of competitiveness against other competitors.

我還想與大家分享的另一個亮點是塞拉多計畫。大家都熟悉，我想說，這是公司的一個獨特的里程碑，它將使我們在市場池中的相關性以及成本方面的競爭優勢方面處於更強大的地位。這對我們來說是一種口頭禪，我們將永遠保留在我們的議程中，保持我們在市場池中的相關性，並每天在現金成本上努力工作，以保持我們相對於其他競爭對手的競爭力水平。

And then we can see this in the next slide in some of the highlights related to the results, one of the things that we are very glad to show is the level of cash costs against in this third -- in this quarter. This is something that we're going to keep working very hard to keep and to even use further levers to keep reducing this in the future.

然後我們可以在下一張幻燈片中看到與結果相關的一些亮點，我們非常高興展示的一件事是本季第三季的現金成本水準。我們將繼續努力保持這一點，甚至在未來使用進一步的手段來不斷減少這種情況。

The other one is of course the EBITDA. We see a number of BRL6.3 billion that shows the resilience of our business. And I think an important point to highlight here is that, as we can see, we start deleveraging the company even not taking all the opportunities that Cerrado will bring for us in the future. So the companies are deleveraging before we have Cerrado operating and bringing the extra volume that we have. So, a lot of good news here in the second quarter in our view related to those figures.

另一項當然是 EBITDA。我們看到 63 億雷亞爾的數字顯示了我們業務的彈性。我認為這裡需要強調的重要一點是，正如我們所看到的，即使沒有抓住塞拉多未來為我們帶來的所有機會，我們也開始去槓桿化公司。因此，在我們讓塞拉多運作並帶來我們現有的額外銷售量之前，這些公司正在去槓桿化。因此，我們認為第二季度有很多好消息與這些數字相關。

We're going to go through most of those information here with the team. And also, we're going to go deeper on the Cerrado project. But let me hand over to the team now to go on the details starting with Fabio. And then I will go back to you.

我們將與團隊一起瀏覽大部分資訊。此外，我們也將更深入地探討塞拉多計畫。但現在讓我把任務交給團隊，從法比奧開始詳細介紹細節。然後我會回到你身邊。

Thank you, Beto. And good morning, everyone. Please, let's turn to the next page on the presentation. On the second quarter, we had a solid performance supported by better market conditions domestically and abroad, albeit challenged international logistics. On the domestic markets, according to Ibá, print and write demand increased 12% in the first two months of the second quarter on a year-over-year basis. Growth occurred in both uncoated and coated paper grades. Demand benefits from the election cycle tailwind, which will take place at the end of the year.

謝謝你，貝托。大家早安。請讓我們翻到簡報的下一頁。第二季度，儘管國際物流面臨挑戰，但在國內外市場狀況較好的支撐下，我們的業績表現穩健。據 Ibá 稱，在國內市場，第二季前兩個月的印刷和書寫需求比去年同期成長了 12%。非塗佈紙和塗佈紙等級均出現成長。需求受惠於年底的選舉週期順風。

Demand for paperboard increased by a strong 14% during the first two months of the quarter, compared to the same period from last year. The significant growth was primarily driven by increased packaging consumption from the food and beverage and pharmaceutical sectors. We have also seen the end of the de-stocking process that had impact on previous quarters.

與去年同期相比，本季前兩個月紙板需求強勁成長 14%。這一顯著增長主要是由食品飲料和製藥行業包裝消費的增加所推動的。我們也看到對前幾個季度產生影響的去庫存過程的結束。

On international markets, demand in the quarter was healthy in North America, Latin America, and other markets we served. Prices were slightly up in dollar terms, supported by higher pulp prices in all markets, coupled by higher container freight rates and longer logistics cycle in most international routes.

在國際市場上，北美、拉丁美洲和我們服務的其他市場本季的需求健康。受所有市場紙漿價格上漲、貨櫃運費上漲以及大多數國際航線物流週期延長的支撐，以美元計算的價格小幅上漲。

Looking now to Suzano's figures, our sales volume in the quarter were 3% higher year over year and almost 6% above first quarter performance, pushed by higher sales volumes in the domestic market. Our export volumes in the quarters have been impacted by difficulties with vessels delays and port permissions, hampered by port conditions in most container terminals in Brazil.

現在來看看 Suzano 的數據，在國內市場銷量增加的推動下，我們本季的銷量年增了 3%，比第一季的業績高出近 6%。我們本季的出口量受到船舶延誤和港口許可困難的影響，並受到巴西大多數貨櫃碼頭港口狀況的阻礙。

The average net price growth during the quarter was over -- first quarter was led by implementation of privileged announced price increases in the external market, and favorable effects. On a year-over-year comparison, the price decline was given by the abnormal price levels, witnessed in the first half of 2023.

本季的平均淨價成長已經結束——第一季是由外部市場上宣布的特權提價的實施以及有利的影響帶動的。與去年同期相比，價格下降是由於 2023 年上半年出現的異常價格水準所造成的。

Looking at the EBITDA performance, the 14% increase quarter-over-quarter was driven by higher top line and lower costs in the period, also benefiting the EBITDA per ton. When compared to the second quarter 2023, the EBITDA dropped 15%, led by lower prices in both the domestic and international markets, despite higher sales volumes.

從 EBITDA 表現來看，季度環比成長 14% 是由於期內收入增加和成本下降推動的，這也有利於每噸 EBITDA。與 2023 年第二季相比，儘管銷量增加，但由於國內和國際市場價格下降，EBITDA 下降了 15%。

Looking ahead, we expect better demand for print and write and cartonboard in the domestic market, when compared with the first half of the year, favored by seasonality. The upcoming elections in Brazil should keep playing a role for higher demand in Q3, mainly for coated paper. Rising costs continue to push paper produced globally, and new price increases have been announced in most regions.

展望未來，受季節性因素影響，我們預期國內市場對印刷書寫及紙板的需求較上半年有所改善。巴西即將舉行的選舉應該會繼續對第三季的需求增加產生影響，主要是銅版紙。成本上升繼續推動全球紙張生產，大多數地區都宣布了新的漲價。

It's also worth mentioning that a strong dollar over BRL raised prices on imported papers in the domestic market, while providing better prices in local currency for our exports. As disclosed on the earnings release in Q3, the annual maintenance downtime will take place on this Suzano and Limeira mills. We expect our cash costs in the coming quarters, ex downtimes, to remain stable when compared to the past quarter.

另外值得一提的是，美元兌雷亞爾的強勢提高了國內市場進口紙張的價格，同時為我們的出口提供了更好的當地貨幣價格。正如第三季收益發布中所披露的，Suzano 和 Limeira 工廠將進行年度維護停機。我們預計未來幾季的現金成本（排除停機時間）將與上個季度相比保持穩定。

Now I will turn it over to Leo, who will present our business results.

現在我將把它交給Leo，他將介紹我們的業務成果。

Thanks, Fabio, and good morning, everyone. Moving to the next slide of our presentation, I would like to begin by sharing some facts related to this past quarter. Market dynamics were quite strong in North America and Europe, where paper production and pulp demand were healthier compared to a low 2023 level, and pulp inventories were still below historic volumes.

謝謝法比奧，大家早安。轉到簡報的下一張投影片，我想先分享與上個季度相關的一些事實。北美和歐洲的市場動態相當強勁，紙張生產和紙漿需求與 2023 年的低水準相比更加健康，紙漿庫存仍低於歷史水準。

In China, paper and ivory board production has been solid since the beginning of the year, with a 4% growth year-to-date, benefited by paper exports, which posted a 16% growth in the same period. Also in China, similar to other regions, pulp inventories have been trending below normalized levels throughout the chain. Despite that, paper producers' margins, and again in China, which kept getting squeezed as the quarter evolved, and a pricing sentiment coming from the new supply on the horizon, made paper buyers reduce the rhythm of their pulp purchases since April, and most importantly, by the end of the quarter.

在中國，紙張和象牙板產量自年初以來一直保持穩定，今年迄今成長了 4%，受益於同期紙張出口成長 16%。同樣在中國，與其他地區類似，整個供應鏈的紙漿庫存一直低於正常水準。儘管如此，紙張生產商的利潤率，以及中國的利潤率，隨著季度的發展而不斷受到擠壓，以及來自即將到來的新供應的定價情緒，使得紙張買家自4 月份以來減少了紙漿採購節奏，並且大多數重要的是，到本季末。

We have navigated Q2 by focusing on positioning our products in Europe and North America, as stated previously, to comply with our pulp supply agreements and our customers' needs, and also on an operational push to reduce our order backlogs to other markets, like Asia, Middle East, and Africa, improving our delivery schedules to our customers in these regions. This dynamic resulted in a strong invoicing during the quarter, keeping our inventories at low levels, very similar to the end of the first quarter of 2024.

如前所述，我們透過專注於將我們的產品定位在歐洲和北美來度過第二季度，以遵守我們的紙漿供應協議和客戶的需求，並致力於減少我們在亞洲等其他市場的訂單積壓、中東和非洲，改善我們對這些地區客戶的交貨時間表。這種動態導致本季度的發票強勁，使我們的庫存保持在較低水平，與 2024 年第一季末非常相似。

Even with the invoicing push, our order backlogs were only recovered to normalized levels by the end of July. This quarter was also marked by the conversion of our previously announced price increases into the P&L, which resulted in an average export price of $701 per ton, 12% higher than that of the first quarter of the year. The combination of higher prices, favorable effects, solid volumes, and good cost performance made us achieve an EBITDA of BRL5.5 billion, a 60% EBITDA margin.

即使有發票推動，我們的積壓訂單到 7 月底才恢復到正常水準。本季的另一個特點是我們先前宣布的價格上漲已轉化為損益表，導致平均出口價格為每噸701美元，比今年第一季上漲12%。較高的價格、良好的效果、穩定的銷售量和良好的性價比相結合，使我們實現了 55 億雷亞爾的 EBITDA，即 60% 的 EBITDA 利潤率。

Now looking forward, I would like to highlight the following points. First of all, we are extremely excited with the startup of our Cerrado project of our brand new Ribas mill. As per our production and operational plan, our contracts and volume agreements have taken into consideration a ramp-up of sales by year-end, time when we expect the bulk of our new pulp supply to start arriving in the major markets. For the second half of 2024, we forecast healthy demand in all regions.

展望未來，我想強調以下幾點。首先，我們對全新 Ribas 工廠 Cerrado 專案的啟動感到非常興奮。根據我們的生產和營運計劃，我們的合約和批量協議已考慮到年底前銷售量的增加，屆時我們預計大部分新紙漿供應將開始抵達主要市場。對於 2024 年下半年，我們預測所有地區的需求都會健康。

As this third quarter begins, North America and Europe continue to post solid paper productions, and pulp inventories have still not recovered to historic normalized levels. In China, paper production should continue at a positive trend, especially as of September, due to a stronger market seasonality. As usual, tissue and packaging producers should increase their productions even further in preparation for the November 11 shopping gala. And we also expect that paper and board exports should continue to post favorable figures during the next months, consequently helping producers' operating rates. As per our checks in the ground in China, pulp inventories across the chain, continue below balanced levels.

隨著第三季的開始，北美和歐洲繼續公佈固體紙產量，紙漿庫存仍未恢復到歷史正常水平。在中國，由於市場季節性較強，紙張產量應繼續保持正面趨勢，尤其是截至 9 月。像往常一樣，紙巾和包裝生產商應該進一步增加產量，為 11 月 11 日的購物盛會做準備。我們也預計，未來幾個月紙張和紙板出口將繼續呈現良好的數據，有助於提高生產商的開工率。根據我們對中國實地的檢查，整個供應鏈的紙漿庫存繼續低於平衡水準。

And very important, taking into consideration the effect of a lower order entry in Q2, we expect that pulp inventories in Chinese ports, or and in the hands of our paper customers, or paper producers and traders in this market, should continue remaining below normalized levels during the next months. Despite all these positive market fundamentals, which I have mentioned regarding Q2 and also expected for Q3, in order to reestablish an active market in the region, we have repositioned our prices in the second half of July, and consequently, order intake has rebounded since then. It seems very clear that we have entered in an environment of lower pulp prices, and at Suzano we are prepared to timely navigate this cycle. Additionally, I would like to confirm that we are determined to keep our inventories at the current low levels, with no, absolutely no major increase to the set points during this cycle. As already stated in previous occasions, at Suzano we manage our business not by an average cost and margins of our assets portfolio, but on a very detailed event basis analysis.

非常重要的是，考慮到第二季訂單減少的影響，我們預計中國港口或我們的紙張客戶或該市場的紙張生產商和貿易商手中的紙漿庫存應繼續保持在正常水平以下未來幾個月的水平。儘管有所有這些積極的市場基本面（我在第二季度提到過，也預計在第三季度），為了在該地區重建活躍的市場，我們在7 月下半月重新定位了價格，因此，自2019 年以來訂單量有所回升。很明顯，我們已經進入了紙漿價格較低的環境，而在 Suzano，我們準備好及時應對這一周期。此外，我想確認的是，我們決心將庫存保持在當前的低水平，在此週期內絕對不會大幅增加設定點。正如之前所說，在 Suzano，我們不是透過資產組合的平均成本和利潤來管理我們的業務，而是透過非常詳細的事件基礎分析來管理我們的業務。

As such, and as Bacci can later explore during our Q&A, our financial team will continuously analyze the returns of our marginal production costs at different price levels of this new cycle, and in case returns are inappropriate, production should be adjusted accordingly, impacting our volume availability and our commercial strategy.

因此，正如Bacci 稍後在問答中探討的那樣，我們的財務團隊將不斷分析新周期不同價格水平下我們的邊際生產成本的回報，如果回報不合適，則應相應調整生產，從而影響我們的生產。

With that said, I would now like to invite Aires to address the cash cost performance during the quarter.

話雖如此，我現在想邀請艾利斯談談本季的現金成本績效。

Thank you, Leo. Good morning, everyone. We are in Slide 7. Looking at the first performance quarter-over-quarter, we face a negative impact on wood supply mixed to a higher average forest to mill distance, close to 200 kilometers, and a higher share of third-party wood, around 35%. On the positive side, we achieved better efficiency in the harvesting activities, which mitigated the pressure.

謝謝你，利奧。大家早安。我們在投影片 7 中。從第一季環比業績來看，我們面臨木材供應的負面影響，包括林地到工廠的平均距離較高（接近 200 公里）以及第三方木材比例較高（約 35%）。從正面的一面來看，我們的收穫活動效率更高，減輕了壓力。

Additionally, while the BRL depreciation is beneficial for the company since it increase EBITDA, it does take a toll on the cash cost level, as some chemicals are dollar-linked. Still on chemicals, the cost decline was mostly driven by a lower energy consumption and a lower price for natural gas, caustic soda and lime. The BRL828 per ton level in the second quarter came pretty much in line with our budget. Looking ahead to the third quarter, we anticipated a low single-digit increase, due to a likely higher FX and Cerrado's start-up. By year-end, assuming no weather-related input cost issues, we foresee cash cost performance improving with the new Ribas operation mill.

此外，雖然雷亞爾貶值對公司有利，因為它增加了 EBITDA，但它確實對現金成本水平造成了影響，因為一些化學物質與美元掛鉤。仍然是化學品，成本下降主要是由於能源消耗下降以及天然氣、燒鹼和石灰價格下降所致。第二季每噸 828 雷亞爾的水準與我們的預算基本一致。展望第三季度，由於匯率可能上漲和塞拉多的啟動，我們預計第三季將出現低個位數成長。到年底，假設沒有與天氣相關的投入成本問題，我們預期新的 Ribas 工廠的現金成本績效將會改善。

Moving to the following slides about Cerrado, a few weeks ago, we were able to deliver on time, and on budget the largest single-line pulp mill in the world after hopefully three years of execution. The fiscal and financial progress along the way were frankly disclosed to you all, and with the same transparency, we share what to expect ahead on the learning curve phase. As you can also see on the slide, there is still BRL2.4 billion CapEx to be disbursed, from the total of BRL22.2 billion with the mill already running. And I take this opportunity to share that the Ribas is running, as we speak, at 4,000 tons of pulp per day, being fully aligned with target for August. Now I hand you over to Bacci.

轉到下面有關塞拉多的幻燈片，幾週前，我們在三年的執行後，能夠按時、在預算內交付世界上最大的單線紙漿廠。一路上的財政和財務進展已坦率地向大家披露，並且以同樣的透明度，我們分享了對學習曲線階段的預期。正如您在幻燈片中還可以看到的那樣，在工廠已運行的 222 億雷亞爾總額中，仍有 24 億雷亞爾的資本支出需要支付。我藉此機會與大家分享，正如我們所說，Ribas 正在以每天 4,000 噸紙漿的速度運行，完全符合 8 月的目標。現在我把你交給巴奇。

Thank you, Aires. Moving to the next page, I'd like to highlight that we are taking the opportunities that the market is providing to us, to keep strengthening our balance sheet. In terms of leverage, as mentioned by Beto in the beginning, the peak leverage related to the Cerrado project is behind us, and we are starting the leveraging process that will likely continue in the coming months. We are now at 3.2 times net debt to EBITDA, with a flat net debt at $12 billion. In terms of our amortization schedule, we took advantage of the curve in Brazil to issue domestic notes and improve the quality of our portfolio by increasing the tenors, and reducing the rates.

謝謝你，艾利斯。翻到下一頁，我想強調的是，我們正在利用市場提供給我們的機會，不斷強化我們的資產負債表。在槓桿方面，正如 Beto 一開始提到的，與 Cerrado 專案相關的槓桿峰值已經過去，我們正在開始槓桿過程，該過程可能會在未來幾個月繼續下去。目前，我們的淨債務是 EBITDA 的 3.2 倍，淨債務持平於 120 億美元。在攤銷計畫方面，我們利用巴西的曲線發行國內票據，並透過延長期限和降低利率來提高投資組合的品質。

We are constantly looking at other alternatives, to keep improving this profile with transactions below the bond curve. On the following page, I'd like to highlight our discipline in terms of capital allocation. We have been going through four consecutive share repurchase programs in, which we bought already 93 million shares. We are approaching the end of this fourth program where we still have about 7 million shares still to be bought. And we have decided this morning to launch a fifth share buyback program with another 40 million shares to be bought over the next 18 months.

我們不斷尋找其他替代方案，透過債券曲線以下的交易不斷改善這種狀況。在下一頁中，我想強調我們在資本配置方面的紀律。我們已經連續進行了四次股票回購計劃，我們已經購買了 9,300 萬股。我們的第四個計劃即將結束，我們仍有約 700 萬股待購買。今天早上我們決定啟動第五次股票回購計劃，在未來 18 個月內再購買 4,000 萬股。

And we also will cancel 40 million shares of the current program. So with that, we have been, over the last three years, returning to our shareholders between dividends, interest on equity, and the share repurchases more than BRL10 billion. With that, I will turn back to Beto.

我們還將取消目前計劃中的 4000 萬股。因此，在過去的三年裡，我們透過股利、股本利息和股票回購向股東回報了超過 100 億雷亞爾。說到這裡，我將回到貝托。

Thank you, Marcelo. In the last slide, we have a few takeaways, but I would like to reinforce a few of them. The first one is related to operating performance. Solid results and operating in a very good way, what is under our control, is the best way, in our view, to make sure that we can keep delivering despite the kind of scenarios that we might face in the future. So this is what's under control, and this is where we're going to keep putting a lot of focus.

謝謝你，馬塞洛。在最後一張幻燈片中，我們有一些要點，但我想強調其中的一些內容。第一個與經營績效有關。我們認為，在我們的控制之下，取得紮實的成果並以非常好的方式運營，是確保我們能夠在未來可能面臨的情況下繼續交付的最佳方式。所以這是我們可以控制的，也是我們會繼續專注的地方。

The other one it's related to the Cerrado project. I think Aires has already talked a lot about the project, but what I want to highlight here, is how capable this team is to deliver very challenging tasks. So -- and I would like to invite you, not only for the Suzano Investor Day by the end of the year, but also to visit the site. It's the only thing to really understand what was implemented. The other thing that I also would like to highlight, is what Marcelo Bacci just presented, which is related to our discipline, related to capital allocation, and the focus that we will always have on maximizing the long-term returns.

另一個與塞拉多計畫有關。我認為艾利斯已經談論了很多關於這個專案的內容，但我想在這裡強調的是這個團隊有多有能力完成非常具有挑戰性的任務。因此，我想邀請您不僅參加年底的 Suzano 投資者日，還邀請您參觀網站。這是真正了解實施內容的唯一方法。我還想強調的另一件事是馬塞洛·巴奇（Marcelo Bacci）剛才介紹的內容，這與我們的紀律、資本配置以及我們始終專注於長期回報最大化有關。

So with that, I will appreciate if we move to the Q&A. Thank you very much.

因此，如果我們進入問答環節，我將不勝感激。非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) Daniel Sasson, Itau BBA.

（操作員說明）Daniel Sasson，Itau BBA。

My first question is on pulp prices. I know that you cannot discuss forward-looking statements in regards to our expectations to what's going to be the price for pulp prices. But if you could help us think about it by telling us what's your view on current demand from China at the current price levels, right. I mean prices have declined by more than $100 per ton over the past couple of weeks. Was that enough to bring buyers back to the negotiating table or thinking differently, are your customers able to skip purchases waiting for prices to decline more or maybe they do not have enough inventories, or they have only normalized level of inventories and not excess levels of inventories. And therefore, at some point, they will have to go back to the negotiating table and restart purchasing volumes.

我的第一個問題是關於紙漿價格。我知道您不能討論有關我們對紙漿價格預期的前瞻性陳述。但如果您能告訴我們您對當前價格水準下中國需求的看法，幫助我們思考這個問題，對嗎？我的意思是，過去幾週價格每噸下降了 100 美元以上。這是否足以讓買家回到談判桌或以不同的方式思考？庫存水準庫存。因此，在某個時候，他們將不得不回到談判桌並重新開始採購量。

And my second question is related to capital allocation. If you could explain what the effective acquisition brings to the table, in terms of your strategy to go further downstream. If there is room to test fiber-to-fiber substitution with some products in the US. And along the same lines talking a little bit about Lenzing, you clearly integrated (inaudible) seems the way to go right in this industry. If you could comment on if growing to dissolving is an option that you're studying, eventually converting one of your plants into dissolving production, that would be great?

我的第二個問題與資本配置有關。如果您能解釋一下有效的收購會帶來什麼，以及您進一步向下游發展的策略。是否有空間在美國測試某些產品的纖維對纖維替代品。沿著同樣的思路談論蘭精，你顯然整合了（聽不清楚）似乎是這個行業的正確之路。如果您可以評論您正在研究的一種選擇是否是從生長到溶解，最終將您的一種植物轉變為溶解生產，那就太好了？

Daniel, this is Leo here. Thank you for your questions related to pulp prices. I will start with maybe the mid part of your question when you ask if our customers are able to skip one more month. I personally believe that the answer is no, because as I mentioned, they have been reducing order or order intakes in the perspective of suppliers since April. And we see public information related to pulp inventories at ports, and we have our market intel of pulp inventories in the hands of the customers and we believe they are below normalized level.

丹尼爾，這是利奧。感謝您提出有關紙漿價格的問題。當您詢問我們的客戶是否可以再跳過一個月時，我將從您問題的中間部分開始。我個人認為答案是否定的，因為正如我所提到的，從四月開始，他們一直在減少訂單或從供應商的角度來看訂單量。我們看到與港口紙漿庫存相關的公開訊息，並且我們擁有客戶手中紙漿庫存的市場情報，我們認為它們低於正常水平。

So as September starts a big seasonality period of the year, with higher production levels, I believe it's important that they recover purchases. And that was our big objective, when we announced a couple of days or a week ago this adjustment -- this big adjustment in price levels in order to get customers back to the table. Right, our objective is how could we get the market into activity again? And that's why we made such a big move positioning our prices in what we believe is correct -- in a correct proportion to softwood prices and also getting closer to local and Chinese producers RMB prices as well. So this was the main intention of our movement, which I believe was successful.

因此，隨著九月開始了一年中的一個重要的季節性時期，生產水平更高，我認為他們恢復採購非常重要。這就是我們的大目標，當我們在幾天或一周前宣布這項調整時——價格水平的大幅調整，以便讓客戶回到談判桌前。是的，我們的目標是如何讓市場重新活躍？這就是為什麼我們採取瞭如此大的舉措，將我們的價格定位在我們認為正確的位置——與軟木價格的正確比例，並且也更接近當地和中國生產商的人民幣價格。所以這是我們運動的主要目的，我相信它是成功的。

As of the day that we made the announcement, several customers in different segments of the market and of different sizes have become active, or interested in buying pulp again from us. I wouldn't say that order intake has fully recovered. I would say that at the first moment in July, order intake was roughly at a 50% level. But I believe that market confidence will keep getting better-and-better as we speak. And then we're going to see them purchasing back to their normalized rates.

截至我們發佈公告之日，不同細分市場、不同規模的幾家客戶已變得活躍或有興趣再次向我們購買紙漿。我不會說訂單量已經完全恢復。我想說的是，7月的第一時刻，訂單量大約在50%的水平。但我相信，就在我們說話之際，市場信心將會越來越好。然後我們將看到他們的購買率恢復到正常水平。

We believe that the decision of increasing orders above their normalized rates in that movement, that's usually usual when they feel that prices are low, so that they can restock, is quite difficult to set, to give a set point at this cycle because it's so different than previous cycles. First, we are coming from low inventories on the chain. Second, unexpected closures are still having a big effect, because we have a carryover of the volumes of announcements of permanent closures in previous quarters, affecting availability as we speak. Third, we have obviously the start-up of Cerrado and our competitor in China.

我們認為，在該運動中將訂單增加到高於其正常水平的決定通常是在他們認為價格較低時很常見，以便他們可以重新進貨，但在這個週期中給出一個設定點是相當困難的，因為它是如此與之前的周期不同。首先，我們的供應鏈庫存較低。其次，意外的關閉仍然產生很大的影響，因為我們有前幾季永久關閉公告的結轉，影響了我們所說的可用性。第三，我們顯然有 Cerrado 的新創公司和我們在中國的競爭對手。

But ramp up curves are always uncertain. And when we add up and factor all this uncertainty, it's quite hard to predict when this will trigger additional demand for pulp, especially because as we all know, there's a big part of the Chinese industry, which is the integrated pulp and paper producers, which have a higher cash cost. I believe quite close to the $600 set point. And that should also start buying pulp once this level is broken. So a lot of variables to be following. We will actively be monitoring and acting accordingly.

但上升曲線總是不確定的。當我們將所有這些不確定性加起來並考慮在內時，很難預測何時會引發對紙漿的額外需求，特別是因為眾所周知，中國工業的很大一部分是綜合紙漿和造紙生產商，其現金成本較高。我相信非常接近 600 美元的設定點。一旦突破該水平，也應該開始購買紙漿。所以有很多變數需要遵循。我們將積極監測並採取相應行動。

Daniel, this is Marcelo speaking. I will answer the Lenzing part and start the Pactiv answer, heading over to Fabio after that. On the Lenzing deal, we see that the same phenomenon that has been happening in other products in terms of fiber substitution, will also take place on the textile market. It's actually already happening with increasing participation of short fiber, replacing long fiber. In addition to that, we see a big potential for the increase of demand of the fiber-based products in replacement of the chemical products, based on fossil material.

丹尼爾，我是馬塞洛。我將回答 Lenzing 部分並開始 Pactiv 答案，然後前往 Fabio。在蘭精交易中，我們看到在纖維替代方面其他產品中發生的同樣現像也將在紡織品市場上發生。實際上，隨著短纖維的參與不斷增加，取代長纖維，這種情況已經發生。除此之外，我們看到以纖維為基礎的產品取代基於化石材料的化學產品的需求成長潛力巨大。

So that's the reason why we decided to position Suzano in that sector. And being a sector that we have no experience with, we thought it would be wise to establish our position with a minority stake in a leading company in the sector that is positioned very well throughout the chain. With the production of pulp and also the final products, including very specific and high end products that Lenzing has, because of its R&D capabilities. So we are starting with a 15% participation, two seats on the Board, having the ability to increase our participation to 30%, being the largest shareholder of the company over the next years if we decide to do so. The plan is to learn about that market with the leading company that Lenzing is.

這就是我們決定將 Suzano 定位於該領域的原因。作為一個我們沒有經驗的行業，我們認為透過持有該行業領先公司的少數股權來確立我們的地位是明智的，該公司在整個產業鏈中都處於非常有利的地位。隨著紙漿和最終產品的生產，包括蘭精憑藉其研發能力而擁有的非常具體和高端的產品。因此，我們從 15% 的參與度開始，在董事會中擁有兩個席位，如果我們決定這樣做，我們有能力將我們的參與度增加到 30%，在未來幾年成為公司的最大股東。該計劃是向蘭精這樣的領先公司了解該市場。

We don't have any immediate plans of any conversion of our facilities into dissolving pulp. That can be a potential development or Greenfields or other things. But everything that we are going to do in this market will be done through the participation we have with Lenzing. So that's the plan. We are waiting for the regulatory approvals to start participating in the decisions of the company. And the intention is to learn about the new market that potentially can be very relevant for us in the future.

我們沒有立即計劃將我們的設施轉變為溶解漿。這可能是一個潛在的開發項目或綠地或其他東西。但我們在這個市場上要做的一切都將透過蘭精的參與來完成。這就是計劃。我們正在等待監管部門的批准，以開始參與公司的決策。目的是了解未來可能與我們非常相關的新市場。

When it comes to the assets in the US, in Pine Bluff and Waynesville, I think from the capital allocation point of view, what we saw there was a very -- well positioned asset in terms of its commercial presence, with a very strong presence in a segment of the market, which is due to continue to grow. With industrial assets that are not best-in-class, but has a lot of potential. And we believe that we can work building on what's already being done over the years in that asset to position it on a very good place in terms of the cash curve, cash cost curve. And we also will inherit a team of 850 people that are very knowledgeable about the operations and about that market.

當談到美國派恩布拉夫和韋恩斯維爾的資產時，我認為從資本配置的角度來看，我們看到的是在商業影響力方面定位非常良好的資產，具有非常強大的影響力在在一個細分市場中，該市場將持續成長。其工業資產雖然不是一流的，但具有很大的潛力。我們相信，我們可以在該資產多年來已經完成的工作的基礎上，將其定位在現金曲線、現金成本曲線方面的一個非常好的位置。我們還將繼承一支由 850 人組成的團隊，他們對營運和市場非常了解。

So the combination of the assets, the market position, and being in a region that has a lot of potential for growth gave us the confidence to go -- with that transaction. And I'll move here to Fabio to comment on the fiber-to-fiber opportunity.

因此，資產、市場地位以及位於一個具有巨大成長潛力的地區的結合讓我們有信心進行這項交易。我將請法比奧評論光纖到光纖的機會。

Daniel, thank you for your question. As you may know, today, the portfolio that these two mills are producing are pretty much targeting the liquid packaging segment in which they are marked leaders for the fresh liquid package segment. These products are built today with the majority of using softwood fiber. You need softwood fiber for that type of product, although they use a little bit of hardwood. Softwood is abundant and also very cost competitive in the region, in the state of Arkansas. Hardwood, on the other hand, is not that cost competitive. So although we did not base our move on a fiber-to-fiber only, fiber-to-fiber could be moving forward a benefit for us, when we start discussing additional products -- for the product portfolio and also production increases at the mill.

丹尼爾，謝謝你的問題。如你所知，今天這兩家工廠生產的產品組合幾乎主要針對液體包裝領域，它們是新鮮液體包裝領域的領導者。如今，這些產品大部分使用軟木纖維製造。此類產品需要軟木纖維，儘管它們使用了一點硬木。阿肯色州該地區的軟木資源豐富，而且成本極具競爭力。另一方面，硬木的成本競爭力不強。因此，儘管我們的舉措不僅僅基於纖維到纖維，但當我們開始討論其他產品時，纖維到纖維可能會為我們帶來好處——產品組合以及工廠的產量增加。

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you, Bacci, Leo, and Fabio.

完美的。謝謝。謝謝巴奇、利奧和法比奧。

Jon Brandt, HSBC.

喬恩·布蘭特，匯豐銀行。

Leo, I just I had a follow-up on the pulp market question. I mean, Europe and the US, as you indicated, is strong. Prices are a little bit better there. I'm wondering how much of your volumes you can shift away from China towards those regions. Is that something you're actively doing, or are you sort of maxed out with the mix there?

利奧，我只是對紙漿市場問題進行了跟進。我的意思是，正如你所說，歐洲和美國很強大。那裡的價格稍微好一些。我想知道您可以將多少數量從中國轉移到這些地區。這是你正在積極做的事情，還是你已經在其中達到極限了？

And then you sort of mentioned if prices, I'm assuming if prices get worse, you're prepared to take some production downtime like you did last year. I realize you're not going to sort of quantify at what price you would do that. But I mean, at current spot levels, is that something that you're actively doing, or do we need to see much lower prices for you, to start taking production downtime?

然後你提到如果價格，我假設如果價格變得更糟，你準備像去年那樣停工一些。我意識到你不會量化你會這樣做的價格。但我的意思是，在目前的現貨水準上，這是你們正在積極做的事情，還是我們需要看到你們的價格大幅降低，才能開始停工？

And my second question, I guess for Beto, on just on the capital allocation and sort of your portfolio, there's been a lot of discussion in the past about needing to make the packaging and tissue segments relevant. Tissue, I think for obvious reasons, it's going to be hard to grow sort of outside the areas that you are now and will struggle to become relevant within your portfolio. So I'm wondering, what are the plans with the tissue segments, maybe more medium-term and on the packaging side? Obviously, there are plans to grow that both organically and inorganically. But where's the level that we need to see? I mean, does the packaging segment, do you envision that being sort of 25% of EBITDA, 50% of EBITDA? How should we think about that going forward?

我想對貝託來說，我的第二個問題是關於資本配置和投資組合的排序，過去有很多關於需要使包裝和紙巾部門相關的討論。組織，我認為出於顯而易見的原因，在你現在所處的領域之外很難發展，並且很難在你的投資組合中變得相關。所以我想知道，紙巾領域的計劃是什麼，也許是中期計劃和包裝方面的計劃？顯然，我們計劃透過有機和無機方式實現成長。但我們需要看到的水平在哪裡？我的意思是，您是否設想包裝部門佔 EBITDA 的 25%、50%？未來我們該如何思考這個問題？

And then, Bacci, maybe just a quick one on the share buyback. You said you're cancelling the 40 million shares. But if I'm not wrong, you've bought more than the 40 million shares in the current program. So I'm just wondering, why aren't you doing all of the shares? Why aren't you cancelling all of them?

然後，巴奇，也許只是簡單介紹一下股票回購。你說你要取消這4000萬股。但如果我沒記錯的話，您在當前計劃中購買的股票數量已超過 4000 萬股。所以我只是想知道，你為什麼不做所有的股票？為什麼不把它們全部取消呢？

So, Jon, this is Leo here. I'm going to start with the first part of your questions, which is how much volumes we could eventually move to Europe and North America, hence the strong markets, solid markets and even more solid in the Tissue segment in this region. Obviously, I'm going to try to limit my answer in terms of what I can disclose without affecting our commercial strategy, as this is quite sensitive to it. But in these markets, we usually sell based on contracts. And despite our contracts, as I had mentioned in my opening speech, had already foreseen for the latest part of '24 and '25, we still had a ramp up in the volumes.

喬恩，這是利奧。我將從你問題的第一部分開始，即我們最終可以將多少產量轉移到歐洲和北美，因此該地區的衛生紙市場強勁、穩定，甚至更加穩定。顯然，我將嘗試在不影響我們商業策略的情況下將我的答案限制在我可以披露的內容上，因為這對此非常敏感。但在這些市場中，我們通常會根據合約進行銷售。儘管我們的合同，正如我在開幕致詞中提到的，已經預見了 24 年和 25 年的最新部分，但我們的銷量仍然有所增加。

So our negotiations with customers already foresee this increase. In the short-term, it's very little space of movement that we can do. Obviously, customers' contracts allow for a small variation, but it's a minor variation compared to the size of the volumes that Suzano has. So our objective in terms of what I mentioned during the Q1 call and also now was how to reposition our volumes in these markets to supply, or to attend the customers' already contractual volumes with us. I'm not foreseeing any bigger volumes, or spot volumes in these markets that would allow us to move additional tons out of other markets and into the US or to Europe as well. You also asked regarding our decisions in terms of production, or eventually curtailing that. And as this is a financial decision, Suzano, I'm going to hand it over to Bacci to answer that. Okay?

因此，我們與客戶的談判已經預見了這一成長。短期內，我們能做的活動空間很小。顯然，客戶的合約允許有微小的變化，但與 Suzano 的產量相比，這只是一個微小的變化。因此，我們在第一季電話會議中提到的目標以及現在的目標是如何重新定位我們在這些市場的產量以供應，或滿足客戶已經與我們簽訂的合約量。我預計這些市場上的銷售或現貨量不會增加，這將使我們能夠從其他市場轉移更多噸到美國或歐洲。您也詢問了我們在生產方面的決定，或最終減少了生產。由於這是一項財務決定，Suzano，我將把它交給 Bacci 來回答。好的？

In terms of the decision about production and sales, we have this methodology of always looking at the marginal cost and the marginal price. And we will decide on the volumes that we will produce in each individual plant, taking into consideration the industrial balance of the plants and also how profitable the marginal production is according to the marginal allocation to clients. This is the methodology that we've been using over the last years, trying to maximize the value of each of our assets.

在生產和銷售的決策方面，我們有這樣的方法論，總是關注邊際成本和邊際價格。我們將根據工廠的工業平衡以及根據對客戶的邊際分配的邊際生產的利潤率來決定每個工廠的生產量。這是我們過去幾年一直在使用的方法，試圖最大化我們每項資產的價值。

Jon, this is Beto here. Just going through your capital allocation question regarding tissue and packaging. Let me start with tissue. This is not a focus with us in terms of investment. We have different ways to keep working very well positioned in terms of tissue, which is the contract that we have for many customers around the globe. And our job here is to keep offering, servicing those customers with the level of quality that we do today. So this is related to tissue.

喬恩，這是貝托。只是解決有關紙巾和包裝的資本分配問題。讓我從紙巾開始。這不是我們投資的重點。我們有不同的方法來保持在組織方面的良好工作狀態，這是我們與全球許多客戶簽訂的合約。我們的工作就是繼續以我們今天的品質水準為客戶提供服務。所以這跟組織有關。

On the other hand, packaging, considering opportunities to differentiate ourselves and to scale the business, this is, yes as a streams and as a segment that we'd like to grow. And as you said, organically or inorganically. So we're going to keep looking for both opportunities. In terms of a share of the packaging business in our, let's say, total EBITDA, I have to say to you that I'm not going to share this kind of information. But anyway, what is important here, is that those movements will give us the right level of return and maximize value on the logjam. So we are really looking for creating value here, and not necessarily reach a specific level of percentage of our EBITDA in the whole business.

另一方面，包裝，考慮到使自己脫穎而出和擴大業務規模的機會，這是，作為一個流和一個我們希望增長的細分市場。正如你所說，有機或無機。因此，我們將繼續尋找這兩個機會。就包裝業務在我們的總 EBITDA 中所佔的份額而言，我不得不對你們說，我不會分享此類資訊。但無論如何，這裡重要的是，這些變動將為我們帶來適當的回報水平，並在僵局中實現價值最大化。因此，我們真正尋求的是在這裡創造價值，而不一定要達到我們的 EBITDA 在整個業務中所佔的特定百分比水準。

Marcio Farid, Goldman Sachs.

馬西奧·法里德，高盛。

A couple of follow-ups here on my side as well. Bacci just laid out the strategy for when and how you think about production, potential adjustments and obviously sales as well. If I remember well, last year, around May, prices touched low levels. We've announced a 4% around 400,000 tons of production cut. But again, prices were at 450 back then, right? But when you look at sales for the last 12 months, running at 10.2 million tons, it still feels like you're still 600,000 tons below where you could have been, right? And that's despite the fact that prices in China were 750 up to May at least, 840, 850 in Europe on a net price as well, which is quite high.

我這邊也有一些後續行動。巴奇剛剛列出了您何時以及如何考慮生產、潛在調整以及顯然還有銷售的策略。如果我沒記錯的話，去年五月左右，價格觸及低點。我們已經宣布減產4%，約40萬噸。不過話又說回來，當時的價格是450吧？但當你看看過去 12 個月的銷量（1,020 萬噸）時，你仍然感覺比本應達到的水平低了 60 萬噸，對吧？儘管截至5月份中國的價格至少為750，歐洲的淨價也為840、850，這是相當高的。

And obviously, I think consensus agrees it's above long-term prices, I should say. So trying to understand here, does that mean you have marginal tons that surround the price levels that you saw over the last couple of quarters? Is there any meals or assets that have at least temporary finding availability that you're saving for the future? Because it does feel like at the price levels that you saw at least over the last six to nine months, I would have expected at least Suzano to be at full capacity.

顯然，我認為共識同意它高於長期價格，我應該說。因此，試著理解一下，這是否意味著您在過去幾季看到的價格水平附近有邊際噸位？是否有任何膳食或資產至少暫時可用，可供您為將來儲蓄？因為感覺至少在過去六到九個月的價格水平上，我預計至少 Suzano 會滿載運轉。

And then a second question, Beto, I think you've taken office just a month ago, but a lot has happened, right? A lot of discussions around potential IP deal, Lenzing, Pactiv, Cerrado start-up, pulp prices are just lower now. Obviously, a lot going on and it feels like you agree with the strategy today. So it seems like there's going to be a continuation at the company versus the former administration as well, right? So just thinking about where we are and going forward, just trying to understand from your side, in terms of strategies, is there anything else that you think you'd focus more, you'd like to add, you'd like to change or switch gears to one side or the other versus where we were, let's say, six months ago?

第二個問題，貝托，我想你剛上任一個月前，但已經發生了很多事情，對嗎？關於潛在的智慧財產權交易、Lenzing、Pactiv、Cerrado 新創公司、紙漿價格現在較低的討論很多。顯然，發生了很多事情，感覺你同意今天的策略。因此，該公司與前政府的對抗似乎還會繼續，對吧？所以，想想我們現在的處境和未來的發展，試著從你的角度了解，在策略方面，還有什麼是你認為你應該更加關注、你想補充、你想改變的嗎？到一邊或另一邊，比方說，六個月前？

And also, I think you are a very successful, at least talking with investors in delivering the right pricing strategy on your former company. So just trying to understand how your past experience can be applied here to Suzano to generate value as well?

而且，我認為您非常成功，至少與投資者交談，為您的前公司提供了正確的定價策略。那麼，只是想了解如何將您過去的經驗應用到 Suzano 來創造價值？

Marcio, this is Marcelo speaking. Let me just come back to the last question that Jon asked, because we didn't answer that yet. The share buyback, we are cancelling all the shares we're buying. This is a 40 million shares program that we are approaching the end and we are cancelling 40 million. We are just leaving as outstanding shares in Treasury, the shares we need for our incentive programs, which is a small amount. Marcio -- in terms of your question about production, first, we don't give guidance or information on our actual production.

馬西奧，我是馬塞洛。讓我回到喬恩問的最後一個問題，因為我們還沒有回答這個問題。股票回購，我們取消了我們購買的所有股票。這是一個 4000 萬股計劃，我們即將結束，我們將取消 4000 萬股。我們只是將其保留為財政部的流通股，即我們激勵計劃所需的股份，數量很少。馬西奧——關於你關於生產的問題，首先，我們不提供有關我們實際生產的指導或資訊。

But if you look at what happened in the last 12 months, this is a reflection of the decision we took one year ago for reducing by 4%. So what you see is the realization of the strategy that was announced back then. We don't have today, if you look at the prices of the last quarter, we of course, we don't have any marginal production that would not be profitable at that price. But you have to understand that we cannot adjust every day the production level. What we're doing today reflects the decision that we took a while ago.

但如果你看看過去 12 個月發生的事情，你會發現這反映了我們一年前做出的減少 4% 的決定。所以你看到的就是當時宣布的策略的實現。我們沒有今天，如果你看看上個季度的價格，我們當然沒有任何邊際產量，以這個價格無法獲利。但你要明白，我們不可能每天都調整生產水準。我們今天所做的反映了我們不久前所做的決定。

Farid, let me start with the strategy. You are completely right. This is a company with, I would say, a very robust business platform, not [indiscernible] by the way. And our plan here is really to continue the strategy and not only based on moving forward the streams in the downstream, but we cannot forget keeping our relevance in the pulp market, and our competitiveness as well. So this is something that is clear. I know that we talk a lot about M&A and inorganic growth.

法里德，讓我從策略開始。你是完全正確的。我想說，這是一家擁有非常強大的業務平台的公司，順便說一句，並不是[音頻不清晰]。我們的計劃實際上是繼續執行該策略，不僅要推動下游業務的發展，而且我們不能忘記保持我們在紙漿市場的相關性以及我們的競爭力。所以這是很清楚的事。我知道我們談論了很多關於併購和無機成長的話題。

But the other, let's say, pillar of the strategy, which is keeping the scale, the relevance and the competitiveness that we have in the pulp market for us is also very important. You also asked about the pricing strategy. I see, honestly, pricing as our capability to have and access data and to treat the data from different, let's say, sources in the market.

但策略的另一個支柱，即保持我們在紙漿市場的規模、相關性和競爭力，對我們來說也非常重要。您也詢問了定價策略。老實說，我認為定價是我們擁有和存取數據以及處理來自市場上不同來源的數據的能力。

And it is exactly what the team has been doing here, using technology, using algorithms to improve our awareness, our level of knowledge to keep, let's say, improving our pricing system. I think we are exactly on this journey and I really support the way that we are doing. The way that we are improving the pricing, not only the strategy, but also the way that we use the tactic, depending on the moment. And, of course, using our size sometimes will help us taking the decision.

這正是團隊一直在這裡所做的事情，利用技術、演算法來提高我們的意識和知識水平，以保持（比如說）改進我們的定價系統。我認為我們正處於這個旅程中，我真的支持我們正在做的事情。我們改進定價的方式，不僅是策略，還有我們使用策略的方式，這取決於具體情況。當然，有時使用我們的尺寸會幫助我們做出決定。

Caio Ribeiro, Bank of America.

卡約·裡貝羅，美國銀行。

So my first question, going back to capital allocation, over the past months, we've seen the company announcing a few smaller M&A transactions, like the ones that have been talked on the call, Lenzing stake acquisition, Pactiv Evergreen, following the company's decision to not proceed with what would be a relatively much larger transaction in the containerboard market.

所以我的第一個問題，回到資本配置，在過去的幾個月裡，我們看到該公司宣布了一些規模較小的併購交易，例如電話會議上討論的交易，蘭精股權收購，Pactiv Evergreen，繼該公司決定不再進行箱板紙市場上規模相對較大的交易。

And going forward, I know the company continues to be vocal about internationalization, diversification into the downstream with complementary products. But if you could give us some more color on whether it's more likely that you would proceed in the same direction with these smaller transactions, like the two recently announced ones, which ultimately lead to immaterial impacts on the balance sheet from a leverage standpoint, or whether you would still be looking to evaluate larger transformational acquisitions, that would be helpful.

展望未來，我知道該公司將繼續大力推動國際化，透過互補產品向下游多元化。但是，如果您能給我們更多信息，說明您是否更有可能以相同的方向進行這些較小的交易，例如最近宣布的兩筆交易，從槓桿的角度來看，這最終會對資產負債表格產生無關緊要的影響，或者無論您是否仍然希望評估更大的轉型收購，這都會有所幫助。

And then secondly, the company is generating ex growth, CapEx, free cash flow yield, which on an annualized basis is quite robust, right? And at comparable prices, could increase even more once Cerrado is fully ramped up, and you capture the benefits of the cash cost reduction there on a consolidated basis. You've already announced a new buyback program, right?

其次，該公司正在產生除前成長、資本支出、自由現金流收益率，按年化計算相當強勁，對吧？以可比較價格計算，一旦 Cerrado 全面啟動，您就可以在綜合基礎上獲得現金成本降低的好處。您已經宣布了一項新的回購計劃，對吧？

But could you look to boost dividends as well, especially if large M&A transactions don't materialize? And could you look to adopt a dividend formula pegged to free cash flow generation ahead to provide more visibility on potential dividend distributions based on that cash generation? Those are my questions?

但你是否也希望提高股息，特別是在大型併購交易未能實現的情況下？您是否可以考慮採用與未來自由現金流產生掛鉤的股利公式，以提供基於現金產生的潛在股利分配的更多可見度？這些是我的問題嗎？

Caio, this is Beto let me start. And then I'll hand over here to Marcelo to cover all the other points. Related to the capital allocation, you mentioned a lot of, let's say, deals that we are trying to make in the recent. But when you look to the future, I think we have to concentrate ourselves.

Caio，我是 Beto，讓我開始吧。然後我將把所有其他要點交給馬塞洛。關於資本配置，您提到了很多，比如說，我們最近試圖進行的交易。但當你展望未來時，我認為我們必須集中精力。

And what is really important for us is looking for assets that, again, we can have the right scale considering the size of the company. We can differentiate ourselves. We can put all the knowledge that we have on those assets. Fiber-to-fiber is always a huge opportunity that we're going to keep looking. But we cannot disclose more than that regarding size and any kind of, potential deals that we might have in the future. So this is a sensitive, let's say, issue.

對我們來說真正重要的是尋找資產，再次考慮到公司的規模，我們可以擁有適當的規模。我們可以讓自己與眾不同。我們可以將我們所擁有的所有知識運用到這些資產上。光纖到光纖始終是我們將繼續尋找的巨大機會。但我們無法透露更多有關規模以及我們未來可能進行的任何潛在交易的資訊。所以這是一個敏感的問題。

And we have to keep working here, again, with the level of discipline that this company has in its track record, implementing projects that generate -- great value. And this is what we're going to keep doing when we talk about capital allocation. And as Marcelo said in his presentation, we always have the opportunity -- to invest in ourselves through the buyback promise when this is the best, let's say, allocation for our capital. So that's it, Caio. Let me hand over to Marcelo to cover the other points.

我們必須再次繼續在這裡工作，按照該公司以往的記錄，實施能夠產生巨大價值的專案。這就是我們在談論資本配置時將繼續做的事情。正如馬塞洛在演講中所說，我們總是有機會透過回購承諾來投資自己，當這是最好的資本配置。就是這樣，凱奧。讓我把其他問題交給馬塞洛。

You're right that, Caio, we are having and are due to probably have in the future a very robust free cash flow that will be dedicated to first reduce our indebtedness a little bit, to bring us back into the range of 2 to 3 times that that will be that we want to keep over time. And the decision that on capital allocation, we'll keep following the framework that we disclosed to the market a few months ago. We will decide based on the best potential returns, and that includes the buybacks, the dividends, the potential projects for growth, M&A or organic. So, we will be following on a very, disciplined way that framework, which means that, yes, we could.

你是對的，Caio，我們現在並且將來可能會擁有非常強勁的自由現金流，這將致力於首先稍微減少我們的債務，使我們回到 2 到 3 的範圍這將是我們希望隨著時間的推移而保留的時間。在資本配置方面，我們將繼續遵循幾個月前向市場揭露的框架。我們將根據最佳潛在回報做出決定，其中包括回購、股息、潛在成長項目、併購或有機回報。因此，我們將以非常嚴格的方式遵循該框架，這意味著，是的，我們可以。

We just announced another buyback program. We could boost dividends if that's the case, like it happened two years ago when we had a very high return over the year in terms of cash and we decided to pay more dividends. But for the time being, the preference will be given for the share buybacks, given the fact that we believe that the current share price is not a good reflection of the true value of the company. We do have a minimum dividend formula pegged to cash flow generation, and we are not considering changing the dividend policy at this time.

我們剛剛宣布了另一項回購計劃。如果是這樣的話，我們可以提高股息，就像兩年前發生的那樣，當時我們的現金回報非常高，所以我們決定支付更多股息。但目前，我們將優先考慮股票回購，因為我們認為目前的股價並不能很好地反映公司的真實價值。我們確實有一個與現金流產生掛鉤的最低股利公式，而且我們目前不考慮改變股利政策。

That's very nice. Thank you very much.

這非常好。非常感謝。

Rafael Barcellos, Bradesco BBI.

拉斐爾·巴塞洛斯，布拉德斯科 BBI。

I have a question to Beto. Beto, you officially joined Suzano in early July, right. So firstly, I think this is your first conference call at Suzano. So welcome. And of course, we wish you good luck. And so my question here is really to understand what, were your first conclusions. Of course, Suzano has delivered good results and improved a lot in several areas over the past few years. But in which areas you understand that the company has to maintain a focus on it, and of course, can still improve in the coming years?

我有一個問題要問貝托。Beto，你是七月初正式加入Suzano的，對吧。首先，我認為這是您在 Suzano 的第一次電話會議。非常歡迎。當然，我們祝您好運。所以我的問題其實是要了解你的第一個結論是什麼。當然，蘇扎諾在過去幾年中取得了不錯的成績，並在多個領域取得了巨大進步。但您認為公司必須在哪些領域保持關注，並且在未來幾年中仍可改進？

And my second question is about cost. It would be interesting to understand how we are seeing cost evolving now in the second half of the year. And of course, how this Cerrado project will affect the cost now in the coming quarters?

我的第二個問題是關於成本。了解我們如何看待今年下半年的成本變化將會很有趣。當然，這個塞拉多計畫將如何影響未來幾季的成本？

Rafael, firstly, I have to say that, as all of you know, I found here an extremely well-managed company, with an amazing track record in terms of delivery. I'm very glad to see the focus on the execution, the focus on operation, and the focus on cost. So we have a future of performing. And this is not something easy to replicate. This is not something easy to find. It's completely part of the future of the team. So and this is very powerful for any kind of business.

拉斐爾，首先，我不得不說，正如你們所知，我在這裡發現了一家管理極其良好的公司，在交付方面擁有令人驚嘆的記錄。我很高興看到對執行的關注、對營運的關注、對成本的關注。所以我們有表演的未來。而這並不是一件容易複製的事。這可不是一件容易找到的事。這完全是球隊未來的一部分。所以這對於任何類型的企業來說都是非常強大的。

We also have a very large talent pool with multi-skills, and with the right strategy and with the level of business platform that we have. So this is a very strong combination in my view. So this is again -- what we found. And -- I also would like to mention, this is something else, which is the level of reliability of our facilities. I think, I had the opportunity to manage facilities in other industries, as you know, in the sugar cane business. And really what we have here in terms of reliability is really outstanding. So it's benchmark and it's very difficult to find in different industries. So this is the kind of overview of the business.

我們還擁有非常龐大的多技能人才庫，擁有正確的策略和我們擁有的業務平台水平。所以在我看來這是一個非常強大的組合。這又是我們的發現。而且──我還想提一下，這是另一件事，那就是我們設施的可靠性水準。我認為，我有機會管理其他行業的設施，如您所知，在甘蔗業務中。我們這裡的可靠性確實非常出色。所以它是標桿，在不同行業中很難找到。這就是業務的概述。

And looking for the future, as you know, the kind of role that we have is really looking all the time about the future, about people, about strategy and about capital allocation. So with the great team that we have here, those are the areas that we're going to keep focused, that we're going to keep looking for new levers, to keep improving our competitive position, to keep improving this outstanding way to operate our facilities, and also to keep taking the best decision in how to allocate the extra cash, and the current cash that -- this resilient business are able to generate. So, Rafael, this is my comment here. Anything else? Cerrado, project I will hand over here to Aires.

展望未來，如您所知，我們的角色實際上是一直在關注未來、人員、策略和資本配置。因此，憑藉我們這裡的優秀團隊，這些是我們將繼續關注的領域，我們將繼續尋找新的槓桿，不斷提高我們的競爭地位，不斷改進這種出色的運營方式我們的設施，並在如何分配額外現金以及這個有彈性的業務能夠產生的當前現金方面繼續做出最佳決策。所以，拉斐爾，這是我的評論。還要別的嗎？塞拉多，我將把計畫移交給艾利斯。

Rafael, good morning. Thanks for your question. In terms of cash cost, we are foreseeing our third quarter, a little single-digit increase in our cash costs. The main reason for this is that -- the FX will be improving -- increased in this quarter. And with the start-up of Cerrado, our third part supply will increase in the third quarter. And the share of this, together with our FX and our risk of hurricane seasons in Mexico, could increase the cost. So we see this possibility of an increase in the cash cost.

拉斐爾，早安。謝謝你的提問。就現金成本而言，我們預計第三季現金成本將出現個位數的小幅成長。其主要原因是——外匯將在本季有所改善——增加。隨著 Cerrado 的啟動，我們的第三方供應將在第三季增加。其中的份額，加上我們的外匯和墨西哥颶風季節的風險，可能會增加成本。所以我們看到現金成本增加的可能性。

But for the fourth quarter, probably after the ramp up of Cerrado, when we start to have -- and a surplus, running with 78% of nominal capacity, probably the share of volume of Cerrado in our total volume, we are foreseeing our best performance in terms of cash cost in the fourth quarter. And for next year, we foresee a stability and some decrease, with that new project and the stability of the new plant will bring to the cash cost.

但對於第四季度，可能在塞拉多產量增加之後，當我們開始出現盈餘，以名義產能的78% 運行時，可能是塞拉多產量在我們總產量中所佔的份額，我們正在預見我們最好的情況第四季現金成本的表現。對於明年，我們預計將保持穩定並下降，因為新項目和新工廠的穩定性將帶來現金成本。

Eugenia Cavalheiro, Morgan Stanley. Eugenia, can you hear us? I believe Eugenia is having some problems.

尤金妮亞·卡瓦列羅，摩根士丹利。尤金妮亞，你聽得到我們說話嗎？我相信尤金妮亞遇到了一些問題。

Igor Guedes, Genial.

伊戈爾·格德斯，和藹可親。

I would like to understand why in your cash flow table you put a working capital variation line and include capital aside, low-end costs, and that line. Generally, there is a separation of the variation in working capital with debt payment flow, such as borrowing and disbursement. The way you do it, I found it difficult to separate what was debt flow and what was actually variation in working capital due to difference in current balance sheet accounts. If you can tell me why do, you separate in that order, I would appreciate it?

我想了解為什麼在您的現金流量表中設置了營運資金變化線，並包括資本除外、低端成本和該線。一般來說，營運資金的變動與債務支付流量（例如借款和支出）是分開的。按照你的做法，我發現很難區分什麼是債務流量，什麼是由於當前資產負債表帳戶的差異而導致的營運資本的實際變化。如果您能告訴我為什麼要按這個順序分開，我將不勝感激？

Igor, this is Marcelo speaking. This is a very technical item, but the capitalized interest is related to the CapEx. It is the interest related to the Cerrado project execution that has to be, according to the accounting rules, capitalized during the execution of the construction phase. As this number is not appearing on the CapEx side, we have to adjust it on the statement of the cash flows. But if you want more details on that, our Investor Relations team will be happy to help you reconcile the numbers.

伊戈爾，我是馬塞洛。這是一個非常技術性的項目，但資本化利息與資本支出有關。根據會計規則，與塞拉多專案執行相關的利息必須在建設階段的執行期間資本化。由於這個數字沒有出現在資本支出方面，我們必須在現金流量表上進行調整。但如果您想了解更多詳細信息，我們的投資者關係團隊將很樂意幫助您核對數字。

The Q&A session is over. We would like to hand the floor back to Mr. Beto Abreu for his final remarks.

問答環節結束。我們想請貝托·阿布魯先生作最後發言。

I would like to thank you for being here with us on the call today and for your interest in Suzano. As always, our IR team remains available for any additional questions you may have and I wish you a great day. Thank you very much.

我要感謝您今天參加我們的電話會議以及您對 Suzano 的興趣。像往常一樣，我們的 IR 團隊將隨時解答您可能提出的任何其他問題，並祝您度過愉快的一天。非常感謝。

The Suzano S.A. second quarter of 2024 conference call is concluded. The Investor Relations department is available to answer further questions you may have. Thank you and have a good afternoon.

Suzano S.A. 2024 年第二季電話會議結束。投資者關係部門可以回答您的進一步問題。謝謝您，祝您下午愉快。