Suzano SA (SUZ) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for holding, and welcome to Suzano's conference call to discuss the results for the first quarter of 2024. We would like to inform that all participants will be in a listen-only mode during the presentation that will be addressed by the CEO, Mr. Walter Schalka and other executive officers. This call will be presented in English with simultaneous translation to Portuguese. (Operator Instructions) Before proceeding, please be aware that any forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs and assumptions of Suzano's management and on information currently available to the company. They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions because they relate to future events and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur in the future. You should understand that general economic conditions, industry conditions and other operating factors could also affect the future results of Suzano and could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements. Now I'll turn the conference over to Mr. Walter Schalka. Please, you may begin your presentation.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的主持，並歡迎參加 Suzano 的電話會議，討論 2024 年第一季度的結果。 Walter Schalka 先生和其他執行官。本次電話會議將以英語進行，並配有葡萄牙語同聲傳譯。 （操作員說明）在繼續之前，請注意，任何前瞻性陳述均基於 Suzano 管理層的信念和假設以及公司目前可獲得的資訊。它們涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們與未來事件有關，因此取決於未來可能發生或不發生的情況。您應該了解，總體經濟狀況、行業狀況和其他經營因素也可能影響 Suzano 的未來業績，並可能導致結果與此類前瞻性聲明中表達的結果有重大差異。現在我將會議交給 Walter Schalka 先生。請您開始您的演講。

Good morning, everyone. It's a great pleasure to have you to be part of the first quarter results, 2024, of Suzano. I would like just to mention to you that we have almost everyone from the C level with us today and will be available for a Q&A session after our presentation. It's a great pleasure to announce the results of the first quarter. Once again, we had a very good operational performance with volumes and pulp side with 2.4 million tons. We have been improving volumes on the paper side as well and on the consumer goods. We had BRL 4.6 billion on EBITDA on this quarter. And it's -- and I would like to just to mention to you and we reenforce the point that we are continually looking forward our competitiveness. It's very important to mention our operational cash cost that was BRL 812 per ton, a very good performance and very close to the performance of the fourth quarter last year. Just to reinforce our positioning on our robust balance sheet with $6.3 billion in cash plus revolving position. With a net debt, there is $11.9 billion. and we are reaching the peak of our leverage with 3.5x net debt over EBITDA. We are going to present Cerrado. Aires is going to present in a few minutes to you. And we have been approaching the end of Cerrado with less disbursement on the future. Now I'm going to pass to Fabio that is going to talk a little bit about packaging and paper market.

大家，早安。很高興您能參與了解 Suzano 2024 年第一季業績。我想向您提一下，今天幾乎所有 C 級人員都與我們在一起，並且在我們的演講結束後將有機會參加問答環節。很高興宣布第一季的業績。我們再次取得了非常好的營運業績，貨量和紙漿側產量達到 240 萬噸。我們一直在提高紙本和消費品的銷售量。本季我們的 EBITDA 為 46 億雷亞爾。我想向你們提及的是，我們強調我們不斷期待我們的競爭力。值得一提的是，我們的營運現金成本為每噸 812 巴西雷亞爾，這是一個非常好的業績，非常接近去年第四季的業績。只是為了透過 63 億美元的現金加上循環部位來鞏固我們在穩健的資產負債表上的地位。淨債務為 119 億美元。我們的槓桿率正達到峰值，淨負債是 EBITDA 的 3.5 倍。我們將介紹塞拉多。埃利斯將在幾分鐘內向您介紹。我們已經接近塞拉多的終點，但對未來的支出卻越來越少。現在我要請 Fabio 談談包裝和紙張市場。

Thank you, Walter. Good morning, everyone. Please, let's turn to the next page on the presentation. In the first quarter of 2024, we have faced different market conditions in our domestic and international markets. Outside Brazil, we have seen demand starting to rebound if inventory replenishment buildup after the strong destocking process through most of 2023, high on the domestic market, demand started the year lower than expected. Demand for print and white papers in Brazil shrunk 20% in the 2 first months of 2024, when compared to the same period of the previous year. With the impact of the postponement of federal and state botnets book programs and customers' inventory adjustments led by slower economic activity at the beginning of the year, apart from the [red], expect the structural reduction in coated paper demand for the promotional segment.

謝謝你，沃特。大家，早安。請讓我們翻到簡報的下一頁。 2024年第一季度，我們的國內和國際市場面臨不同的市場狀況。在巴西以外，我們看到，如果在 2023 年大部分時間強勁去庫存過程後庫存補充增加，需求開始反彈，國內市場高位，年初需求低於預期。 2024 年前 2 個月，巴西對印刷紙和白皮書的需求與去年同期相比下降了 20%。由於聯邦和州殭屍網路圖書計劃推遲以及年初經濟活動放緩導致客戶庫存調整的影響，除[紅色]外，預計促銷領域的銅版紙需求將出現結構性減少。

Regarding paperboard, demand in Brazil has been impacted by a slowdown in consumer spending, which, coupled with previous inventory adjustments, resulted in a 6% demand reduction in the 2 first months of 2024 compared to the same period of 2023 according to IBA's available data. Suzano total volumes in Q1 were 3% higher than Q1 2023, driven by higher export volumes. Compared to the last quarter, our total sales reduced 20% due to the usual sales seasonality between such quarters. The average net price during the quarter was flattish quarter-over-quarter. We have delivered higher prices quarter-over-quarter in the domestic market due to price increases in our uncoated and cut size product lines. In international markets, our prices were slightly lower quarter-over-quarter due to product and regional mix. Looking at EBITDA, the 19% decrease quarter-over-quarter was driven by lower sales volume. When compared on a year-over-year basis, the 35% decrease in EBITDA was mostly led by lower prices in the external markets. Our EBITDA per ton was slightly better on a quarter-over-quarter basis.

就紙板而言，巴西的需求受到消費者支出放緩的影響，加上先前的庫存調整，根據 IBA 的現有數據，2024 年前 2 個月的需求較 2023 年同期減少了 6% 。受出口量增加的推動，Suzano 第一季的總銷量比 2023 年第一季高出 3%。與上季相比，由於各季度之間通常存在銷售季節性，我們的總銷售額下降了 20%。本季的平均淨價與上一季持平。由於我們的無塗層和切割尺寸產品線的價格上漲，我們在國內市場的價格環比上漲。在國際市場上，由於產品和區域組合的原因，我們的價格較上季略有下降。從 EBITDA 來看，季減 19% 是因為銷售量下降。與去年同期相比，EBITDA 下降 35%，主要是由於外部市場價格下降。我們的每噸 EBITDA 環比略好。

Looking ahead to the coming quarters, we expect healthier demand levels as inventory buildup continues in mature markets. In the domestic markets, we expect the lesion cycle to support demand in the coated segment, have recovered in the uncoated market segment as well as improving paperboard demand for packaging. The improvement in demand, combined with current market expectations for pulp, energy and wood prices is expected to sustain current price levels on the domestic market. While international markets, apart from the rapidly evolving scenario, we generally expect price levels to increase as several major international players have already announced price increases for the coming months. Despite the mounting cost pressures, the impact is not only formally distributed across all players and regions. Looking ahead, we expect a flattish cash cost performance in our Paper and Packaging business throughout 2024 backed by our strong structural competitiveness. Now I will turn over to Leo, who will be presenting our op business results.

展望未來幾個季度，隨著成熟市場庫存的持續增加，我們預計需求水準將更加健康。在國內市場，我們預期病變週期將支持塗佈細分市場的需求，非塗佈細分市場的需求已經復甦，以及包裝紙板需求的改善。需求的改善，加上目前市場對紙漿、能源和木材價格的預期，預計將維持國內市場目前的物價水準。儘管國際市場除了快速變化的情況外，我們普遍預期物價水準將會上漲，因為幾家主要國際參與者已經宣布未來幾個月漲價。儘管成本壓力不斷增加，但其影響不僅正式分佈在所有參與者和地區。展望未來，在我們強大的結構競爭力的支持下，我們預計 2024 年紙張和包裝業務的現金成本效益將持平。現在我將交給 Leo，他將介紹我們的營運業務成果。

Thanks, Fabio, and good morning, everyone. Let's please move to the next slide of our presentation to see our Pulp business unit results. I would like to begin by sharing with you some facts related to this past quarter. Demand for hardwood pulp was positively surprised -- has positively surprised our expectations throughout the period, both in China, where the rhythm of paper production continued quite healthy, actually growing 6% to Q1 compared to Q1 '23 as per CI and with low pressure on paper producers inventories as well as in Europe, which has recovered significantly from the value seen in the first half of '23 and where our customers kept revising their forecast up and up. On the supply side of the pulp fundamentals, we have noticed several disruptions coming from impacts of permanent closures announced previously, added to several new and unexpected events such as strikes, wars and climate-related events as well as the idling of some mills, reducing the availability of pulp in the whole system.

謝謝法比奧，大家早安。讓我們轉到簡報的下一張投影片，看看我們的紙漿業務部門的業績。首先，我想與大家分享一些與上季相關的事實。對闊葉木漿的需求令人驚訝——在中國，整個時期的預期都超出了我們的預期，中國的紙張生產節奏仍然相當健康，根據CI，在低壓情況下，與23 年第一季相比，第一季實際上成長了6%造紙生產商的庫存以及歐洲的庫存，與 23 年上半年的價值相比已顯著恢復，而且我們的客戶不斷向上修正他們的預測。在紙漿基本面的供應方面，我們注意到先前宣布的永久關閉的影響造成了一些幹擾，再加上罷工、戰爭和氣候相關事件等一些新的和意外的事件以及一些工廠的閒置，減少了整個系統中紙漿的可用性。

Demand from our customers and the push for order intake has exceeded our capability to serve all their requests, and we had to limit and cap order intake during all months of Q1. Despite our efforts to reestablish our inventories in Europe and in North America during the quarter, optimum inventory levels were still not achieved, and we forecast that this situation will still take some months to level out, and for inventories to be physically repositioned and available in European and North American terminals. As I had mentioned in our previous earnings calls, our inventory levels across the systems were too low and unsustainable in the end of 2023. And during Q1, we had to start establishing a better operational condition. Regions and customers who are served by Suzano directly out of Brazil, like Middle East, Africa, Asia, including China, are still running with significant shipment and invoicing delays with no improvement during the quarter and indeed even more challenging, now reaching more than 70 days of backlog at the end of this period.

我們客戶的需求和訂單量的成長超出了我們滿足他們所有要求的能力，我們不得不在第一季的所有月份限制和限制訂單量。儘管我們在本季度努力重建歐洲和北美的庫存，但仍未達到最佳庫存水平，我們預測這種情況仍需要幾個月的時間才能恢復平衡，並且庫存要重新定位並在歐洲和北美碼頭。正如我在先前的財報電話會議中提到的，到 2023 年底，我們整個系統的庫存水準太低且不可持續。 Suzano 直接從巴西提供服務的地區和客戶，如中東、非洲、亞洲（包括中國），仍然存在嚴重的發貨和發票延遲問題，本季度沒有任何改善，實際上更具挑戰性，目前已達到70多個在此期間結束時積壓的天數。

Coming now to the graphs on the slide. Our first quarter sales were limited by inventory replenishment, as I have mentioned before. Our average export prices increased to $624 per ton, capturing only partially our price increases, due to the high backlog levels as I have also mentioned previously. Our price increase announcements during the quarter were all fully implemented in their respective markets. Our EBITDA totaled BRL 3.9 billion with an improvement compared to Q4 due to higher prices despite lower volumes. Now looking forward, I would like to highlight the following points. Rolling forecast coming from our customers in Europe and Americas keep improving, and we still see challenges to serve all the pulp demand in the short term. It will take time to reposition our inventories accordingly. Effects of strikes and new [feeders] in Europe have unexpected generated additional pulp demand for Suzano, and our current inventory levels do not allow us to tackle any, absolutely any, unplanned pulp demand. We expect S&D dynamics in Europe to remain quite tight during the second quarter.

現在來看投影片上的圖表。正如我之前提到的，我們第一季的銷售受到庫存補充的限制。我們的平均出口價格上漲至每噸 624 美元，這僅反映了我們價格上漲的一部分，因為積壓量很高，正如我之前提到的。我們本季的漲價公告均已在各自市場全面實施。我們的 EBITDA 總額為 39 億雷亞爾，與第四季度相比有所改善，原因是儘管銷量較低，但價格較高。展望未來，我想強調以下幾點。來自歐洲和美洲客戶的滾動預測不斷改善，我們仍然看到短期內滿足所有紙漿需求的挑戰。相應地重新定位我們的庫存需要時間。歐洲的罷工和新的[支線]的影響意外地為 Suzano 產生了額外的紙漿需求，而我們目前的庫存水平不允許我們解決任何、絕對任何計劃外的紙漿需求。我們預計第二季歐洲的特殊與差別待遇動態仍將相當緊張。

In China, we know that the leading paper producers are taking advantage of their financial strength to lower paper producer and the lower paper producers' margins in general in the market to push for market share gains, consequently squeezing smaller paper producers. Smaller paper producers lower operating rates, as recently reported, are being compensated by higher operating rates from larger paper producers. As in China, downstream paper demand continues healthy, also supported by our customers' macro sentiment in general, we do not expect major changes to paper production rhythm. And indeed, this paper rhythm -- paper production rythm has been quite solid during this year. Demand for our pulp came again over our expectations in April. And as we speak, we are still capping order intake and refraining from offering to spot markets as an effort to recover timely shipment to our customers. As we speak, we are completely oversold. In additional to tailwind demand perspectives, our constructive view for the short term is being even more benefited from disruptions on supply chain on the supply side of the equation, for which we are not sensing any significant improvement soon. Reason why we feel the (inaudible) price momentum should continue. News keep coming, and you all have read yesterday that a new permanent closure was announced. With that said, I would now like to invite Aires to address with you the cash cost performance of the quarter.

在中國，我們知道，領先的造紙生產商正在利用其財務實力來壓低造紙生產商和造紙生產商在市場上的總體利潤率，以推動市場份額的增長，從而擠壓較小的造紙生產商。正如最近報導的那樣，較小的造紙生產商較低的開工率正在被大型造紙生產商較高的開工率所補償。由於中國下游紙張需求持續健康，並且受到客戶整體宏觀情緒的支撐，我們預計紙張生產節奏不會發生重大變化。事實上，今年造紙節奏——造紙節奏一直相當穩健。四月對我們紙漿的需求再次超出了我們的預期。正如我們所說，我們仍在限制訂單量，並避免向現貨市場供貨，以努力恢復向客戶的及時出貨。就在我們說話的時候，我們已經完全超賣了。除了順風需求的觀點之外，我們對短期的建設性看法甚至更多地受益於供應方供應鏈的中斷，而我們並沒有感覺到很快會有任何重大改善。我們認為（聽不清楚）價格動能應該持續下去的原因。消息不斷傳來，昨天你們都已經讀到了新的永久關閉的消息。話雖如此，我現在想邀請艾利斯與大家討論本季的現金成本績效。

Thank you, Leo. Good morning, everyone. We are on Slide 7. The cash production costs performed in line with company's operational plan, presenting stability compared with the previous quarter. In addition to the benefit from the drop in the price of diesel and caustic soda, which is the main chemical in the cash cost composition, we operate on a smaller ever distance from forest to mill and had a better performance in harvesting activities, further reducing the cost of wood. These positive factors were offset by nonrecurring events in some mills, which negatively impact input consumption and fixed costs in the quarter. In the annual comparison, we see a clear benefit of the better operational performance on wood and inputs in the last quarter, in addition to the reduction of the server in the commodity price in the period. Looking ahead, we continue to see stability in the cash production costs throughout the year, although with a small variation between upcoming quarters.

謝謝你，利奧。大家，早安。我們在投影片 7 上。除了受益於柴油和燒鹼（現金成本構成中的主要化學品）價格下降之外，我們的經營範圍從森林到工廠的距離越來越小，並且在採伐活動中表現更好，進一步減少了木材的成本。這些正面因素被一些工廠的非經常性事件所抵消，這些事件對本季的投入消耗和固定成本產生了負面影響。在年度比較中，我們看到了上個季度木材和投入方面更好的營運績效帶來的明顯好處，以及伺服器在此期間商品價格的下降。展望未來，我們繼續看到全年現金生產成本保持穩定，儘管未來幾季之間存在微小差異。

Moving to the next slide. We are focused on the final (inaudible) of Cerrado project, which has already reached 94% physical completion and 87% of fiscal execution by April. The project's CapEx guidance for 2024 is maintained at $4.6 billion, with more than half having already been disbursement by April, therefore, reducing cash flow consumption in the remaining 8 months of the year. On the next page, we would like to reinforce the company's vision of the expected ramp-up curve of the new plants, should be completed in 9 months. Such performance means a production volume of 900,000 tons and sales volume of 700,000 tons in 2024. In the first 12 months after the startup, we expect to produce 2 million tons of pulp in the new mill. Marcel, the floor is yours.

轉到下一張投影片。我們專注於 Cerrado 項目的最終（聽不清楚）項目，到 4 月份，該項目已完成 94% 的實際完工率和 87% 的財務執行率。該專案2024年的資本支出指引維持在46億美元，其中超過一半已於4月支付，因此，減少了今年剩餘8個月的現金流消耗。在下一頁中，我們想強調公司對新工廠的預期產能成長曲線的願景，應在 9 個月內完成。這樣的業績意味著到2024年產量將達到90萬噸，銷售量將達到70萬噸。馬塞爾，地板是你的。

Thank you, Aires. As Aires has just mentioned that we are at the end of an investment cycle that is paving the way for us for further deleveraging in the coming months. So I'd like to start on Slide 9 to give you a recap on what happened with our net debt in the last 12 months. Despite the fact that we invested $2.8 billion in the period, our net debt just went up from $10.9 million to $11.9 billion in the period because of a very strong operational cash flow and also because of our very consistent derivative policy or hedging policy. But we have -- so that led the net-debt-to-EBITDA ratio to the level of 3.5x at this point, which is most likely the peak for this cycle of investment. We expect this number to start improving in the coming quarters. In terms of liquidity and amortization schedule, we have a very comfortable position with a significant amount of liquidity, $3.9 billion of cash plus standby facilities and undrawn facilities that will be drawn in the coming months with a very low level of maturities in the coming years that will lead us to a very comfortable position when it comes to average term and also average cost of our debt. With that, I will turn it back to Walter for his closing remarks..

謝謝你，艾利斯。正如艾利斯剛剛提到的，我們正處於投資週期的尾聲，這為我們在未來幾個月進一步去槓桿化鋪平了道路。因此，我想從投影片 9 開始，向您回顧過去 12 個月我們的淨債務發生的情況。儘管我們在此期間投資了 28 億美元，但由於非常強勁的營運現金流以及我們非常一致的衍生性商品政策或對沖政策，我們的淨債務在此期間從 1,090 萬美元增加到 119 億美元。但我們已經——因此，目前淨債務與 EBITDA 的比率達到了 3.5 倍的水平，這很可能是本輪投資週期的峰值。我們預計這一數字將在未來幾季開始改善。就流動性和攤銷時間表而言，我們的狀況非常良好，擁有大量流動性、39億美元的現金以及備用貸款和未提取的貸款，這些貸款將在未來幾個月內提取，且未來幾年的到期日水準非常低這將使我們在平均期限和平均債務成本方面處於非常舒適的位置。說到這裡，我將把它轉回沃爾特，讓他發表結束語。

Now we are going for a Q&A session. Please, we are available right now to answer your questions.

現在我們將進行問答環節。請，我們現在可以回答您的問題。

We will now begin the Q&A section for investors and analysts. (Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Daniel Sasson with Itau BBA.

我們現在將開始投資者和分析師的問答部分。 （操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Itau BBA 的 Daniel Sasson。

Walter, Suzano is about (inaudible) again delivering important growth project on time and on budget. You showed the avenues that it opens up ahead. It keeps your excellent track record and so on and so forth. But now I think all eyes will be on the next steps, right? So it would be very helpful if you could elaborate on the next potential growth avenues that you see for Suzano? And more specifically, you have stated in the past that Suzano would be willing to analyze opportunities in different geographies as well. So if you could explain to us a little bit what would be the rationale or the main positives for Suzano if it decides to diversify abroad? And my second question, Walter, is also related to capital allocation discipline. When you became the company's CEO in 2011, the industry is going through a very hard time, right? And in 2012, capital increases had to be made at Suzano and Fibria. And then you conducted, what I would call, a transformational change that allowed your balance sheet to be strong enough to even raise that, consolidate the industry, create value to shareholders. So looking ahead, what do you think (inaudible) dating (inaudible) or the specific breaks you think that Suzano has put in place to guarantee that rationality in capital allocation decisions will always continue to be the case?

沃爾特·蘇扎諾（Suzano）即將（聽不清楚）再次按時、按預算交付重要的成長項目。你展示了它在前方開闢的道路。它保留了您的優秀記錄等等。但現在我想所有的目光都會集中在接下來的步驟上，對嗎？因此，如果您能詳細說明您認為 Suzano 的下一個潛在成長途徑，將會非常有幫助？更具體地說，您過去曾表示，蘇札諾也願意分析不同地區的機會。那麼，您能否向我們解釋一下，如果 Suzano 決定進行海外多元化，其理由或主要積極因素是什麼？我的第二個問題，沃特，也與資本配置紀律有關。當您在2011年擔任公司執行長時，行業正在經歷一段非常艱難的時期，對吧？ 2012 年，Suzano 和 Fibria 不得不增資。然後你進行了我所說的轉型變革，使你的資產負債表足夠強大，甚至可以提高資產負債表，鞏固行業，為股東創造價值。那麼展望未來，您認為（聽不清楚）約會（聽不清楚）或您認為 Suzano 為保證資本配置決策的合理性將始終保持這種情況而採取的具體突破措施是什麼？

Thank you, Daniel. It's a pleasure to answer this question. First of all, I'd like to say to all of the next questions that we are not going to comment on possible speculation that we are seeing on the press. But it's very important to give a very clear framework from our view of the future. First, I think it's very important to mention that we are long-term viewers. So we are always analyzing the opportunities to shareholder value creation, all the time. That could be with organic or inorganic growth but could be through buyback shares as well. We are value creation. It's a very important point for us, always on a more long-term view and sharing value with all shareholders all the time. Give an example to you, it's what we did when we moved to a single class share to benefit all of the shareholders. Second, I think it's quite important to mention about our capital allocation discipline. I think this is very important to us. We are in an industry that is very intense in capital, and this is very important. We always -- I'm going to reinforce, always make a very deep analysis and not based only with one person. It's a group of person discussing what the potential new opportunities that we are facing for the future. And I can mention to you some of the movements that we did that was on this direction. On organic moves -- sorry, inorganic moves, we had deals such as Ibema, such as Facepa, such as expansion of land banking, including Parker. With Fibria deal, with Kimberly-Clark tissue acquisition in Brazil. Each of them, we have been going through the discussions how we would change our value creation, improve the value creation for the future.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。很高興回答這個問題。首先，我想對接下來的所有問題說，我們不會對媒體上看到的可能的猜測發表評論。但從我們對未來的角度來看，給出一個非常清晰的框架非常重要。首先，我認為非常重要的是要提到我們是長期觀眾。因此，我們一直在分析股東價值創造的機會。這可能是透過有機或無機成長實現的，但也可以透過股票回購實現。我們是價值創造者。這對我們來說非常重要，始終以更長遠的眼光並始終與所有股東分享價值。舉個例子，我們轉為單一類別股份時就是這麼做的，讓所有股東受益。其次，我認為提及我們的資本配置紀律非常重要。我認為這對我們來說非常重要。我們處在一個資本非常密集的行業，這一點非常重要。我們總是──我要強調，總是進行非常深入的分析，而不是只基於一個人。這是一群人在討論我們未來面臨的潛在新機會。我可以向你們提到我們在這個方向上所做的一些動作。在有機舉措方面——抱歉，無機舉措，我們有諸如 Ibema 之類的交易，例如 Facepa 之類的交易，例如擴大土地儲備，包括 Parker。與 Fibria 達成交易後，金佰利收購了巴西的衛生紙。我們每個人都在討論如何改變我們的價值創造，並改善未來的價值創造。

On organic moves, we had organic moves on the Tissue business on the fluff market or in Cerrado. When we presented Cerrado, many of the people who are asking us about the value creation and the risks of implementation of that. Now it's very clear that our team performed very well. Once again, we have a very good track record, and we will deliver a plan that is going to transform the company for the future. A plan that is going to have 2.5, additional, million tons to the company with the lowest cash cost on our system, and in the industry, around $100 per ton. With retrofits that we made on Suzano facility, on Aracruz facility, on Mucuri facility. It's another source of value creation. Then -- but I'd like to reinforce, Daniel, is that we are not just looking grow for growth. We are looking for growth for value creation. That could be retrofitting on new avenues for the future on organic or inorganic movements.

在有機措施方面，我們對絨毛市場或塞拉多的衛生紙業務進行了有機措施。當我們介紹 Cerrado 時，許多人都在詢問我們價值創造以及實施價值的風險。現在很明顯我們團隊表現得非常好。我們再一次擁有非常好的業績記錄，我們將交付一項將改變公司未來的計劃。該計劃將以我們系統中現金成本最低的方式向公司額外提供 2.5 百萬噸，在行業中每噸約為 100 美元。我們對蘇扎諾工廠、阿拉克魯斯工廠和穆庫里工廠進行了改造。這是價值創造的另一個來源。然後，丹尼爾，我想強調的是，我們不僅僅是為了成長而成長。我們尋求成長以創造價值。這可能是對未來有機或無機運動的新途徑進行改造。

The third issue that I would like to bring to your attention right now, it's our financial discipline. We do have a financial discipline policy, and we will stick with this policy that we have today. It's very clear. It's public, our policy, and we will stick with our policy. And fourth, not less important, in my opinion, very important is that we have a very strong team. We have a team that is committed, a team that is highly competent and align with all the stakeholders. We are all the time with this team looking for opportunities to reach new boundaries, new opportunities, new situations that we would deliver value creation to our stakeholders. Then all of this, it's balanced on something that is quite important to us that we want to create differentiation all the time in every single move that we do. We are going to create differentiation, and we are going to create scale. And the combination of both that would deliver value to everyone for the future.

我現在想提請大家注意的第三個問題是我們的財務紀律。我們確實有財務紀律政策，我們將堅持今天的這項政策。非常清楚。這是公開的，我們的政策，我們將堅持我們的政策。第四，在我看來，同樣重要的是，我們擁有一支非常強大的團隊。我們擁有一支忠誠的團隊、一支能力出色且與所有利害關係人保持一致的團隊。我們一直與這個團隊一起尋找機會達到新的界限、新的機會、新的情況，為我們的利害關係人創造價值。然後，所有這一切都平衡在對我們來說非常重要的事情上，我們希望在我們所做的每一個動作中始終創造差異化。我們將創造差異化，我們將創造規模。兩者的結合將為未來的每個人帶來價值。

Thank you, Walter, thank you for all these years.

謝謝你，沃爾特，謝謝你這些年來。

Next question from Jon Brandt with HSBC.

匯豐銀行的 Jon Brandt 提出了下一個問題。

Walter, thank you very much for the past decade plus, and I wish you the best of luck in the future and your role on the Board. I guess, just sticking with the capital allocation, and I understand you can't make any comments about what's happening in the media or what they're reporting. But I'm just curious, could you just maybe discuss it a little bit more in terms of a size of a deal, are there any limitations? Is there sort of an amount or a deal that might be too big for you. And on the financing side, yes, your net debt and your leverage policies are very clear, but you've also gone higher than the 3.5x in the past. And as long as there's sort of a clear deleveraging path, I'm wondering, would you sort of break 4.5x - 5x leverage for a deal that you considered really interesting. I guess that's -- and I guess also with that, would you perhaps consider equity in any deal? Or is that sort of off the table? And then my second question is just related to the pulp volumes. Sales volumes were down 2% year-on-year. I understand there were some inventory builds, but you had 3 mills with downtime last year, and there were no mills with downtime this year. So presumably, production was a lot higher. So I'm just -- I'm wondering, can we assume that the rest of that -- the rest of that production was put into inventory? And if you can sort of quantify how much more inventory builds you have to do and if it's safe to assume that you're running at 100% capacity utilization?

沃爾特（Walter），非常感謝您過去十年的努力，祝您未來一切順利，並在董事會中發揮作用。我想，只要堅持資本分配，我知道你不能對媒體正在發生的事情或他們正在報導的內容發表任何評論。但我只是好奇，您能否就交易規模多討論一下，是否有任何限制？是否有某種金額或交易對您來說可能太大了？在融資方面，是的，你的淨債務和槓桿政策非常明確，但你也比過去的3.5倍更高。我想知道，只要有一條明確的去槓桿化路徑，您是否會為一筆您認為真正有趣的交易打破 4.5 倍至 5 倍的槓桿率。我想，我想，您是否會在任何交易中考慮股權？或者說這是不可能的？我的第二個問題與紙漿體積有關。銷量較去年同期下降2%。據我所知，庫存有所增加，但去年有 3 家工廠停工，今年沒有工廠停工。所以據推測，產量要高得多。所以我只是 - 我想知道，我們是否可以假設其餘的 - 其餘的生產已放入庫存？如果您可以量化您還需要增加多少庫存，以及是否可以安全地假設您正在以 100% 的產能利用率運行？

Thank you, Jon, for your question. It's Walter here on capital allocation for us. As I mentioned to you, we are very disciplined on that. And we are very disciplined on our financial policy and is very clear what we have right now. We are not going to change our financial policy. We could exceed at some time the 3.5x, but it's very clear that we have this -- we need to present a remedy on this. It's very clear on our policy. And we have happened to us, I think, 1x or 2x, and every time that we did, we present a remedy to our shareholders, then we are very disciplined on that. We want to be between 2x and 3x, and we could reach 3.5x during an expansion program. But if we exceed that, we need to have a remedy on that. And second, if you ask about the potential movements for the future that could bring cash and our shares. This is something depending on the opportunities that we have. But more important than that is the fact that we are always disciplined on value creation.

謝謝喬恩的提問。沃特為我們介紹資本配置。正如我向您提到的，我們在這方面非常自律。我們對財務政策非常嚴格，並且非常清楚我們現在擁有什麼。我們不會改變我們的金融政策。我們有時可能會超過 3.5 倍，但很明顯我們已經做到了——我們需要對此提出補救措施。我們的政策非常明確。我認為，我們已經發生過一兩次，每次我們這樣做時，我們都會向股東提出補救措施，然後我們對此非常自律。我們希望在 2 倍到 3 倍之間，並且在擴展計劃期間我們可以達到 3.5 倍。但如果我們超出了這個範圍，我們就需要採取補救措施。其次，如果你詢問未來可能帶來現金和股票的潛在趨勢。這取決於我們擁有的機會。但比這更重要的是，我們在價值創造上始終遵守紀律。

Guys, we are not here just in the sake of growth. This is not our mindset. Our mindset is value creation. It's not growth in terms of ego centric for people here or the company being better or larger and things like that. We want to be, and it's very clear, delivering value creation to our shareholders. And we are very agnostic about organic or inorganic and about geographies. This is something very important to you to understand. If we are going to have used cash and shares, depending on the opportunities that you have and depending how we are going to see the potential value creation on these opportunities.

夥計們，我們來這裡不僅僅是為了成長。這不是我們的心態。我們的心態是創造價值。對於這裡的人來說，這不是以自我為中心的成長，也不是公司變得更好或更大之類的事情。很明顯，我們希望為股東創造價值。我們對有機或無機以及地理位置非常不可知。這對你來說非常重要，需要理解。如果我們要使用現金和股票，這取決於您擁有的機會以及我們將如何看待這些機會的潛在價值創造。

Jon -- Sorry, Jon, this is Leo here. I'm going to answer your question related to pulp volumes and inventory buildup and production. First of all, we have been stating for quite a time that we are not going to issue any comments related to our production levels. So I'm going to focus my answer on inventory rebuild and what we're seeing. First of all, the volume effect on Q1 is all related to inventory rebuild. We ended last year with a very unsustainable level of inventories which we had to quickly address in order not to compromise our agreements with key customers. So that was the issue that generated this below-expected, as per analysis, volumes in the quarter. We are still not there yet in terms of inventory we build. There's still some space to be fulfilled. There is cargo in the sea or leaving Brazil, that's in our inventories, but still not at our terminals available for our customers. And this is one of the reasons why I mentioned that we are completely oversold at this time and actually capping order intake in all markets.

喬恩——抱歉，喬恩，我是利奧。我將回答您有關紙漿量、庫存累積和生產的問題。首先，我們已經聲明很長一段時間了，我們不會發表任何與我們的生產水準相關的評論。因此，我的回答將重點放在庫存重建和我們所看到的情況上。首先，第一季的成交量影響都與庫存重建有關。去年年底，我們的庫存水準非常不可持續，我們必須迅速解決這個問題，以免損害我們與主要客戶的協議。根據分析，這就是導致本季銷售低於預期的問題。就我們建立的庫存而言，我們還沒有達到這個目標。還有一些空間要完成。有貨物在海上或離開巴西，在我們的庫存中，但仍然沒有在我們的碼頭為我們的客戶提供。這就是為什麼我提到我們此時完全超賣並實際上限制了所有市場的訂單量的原因之一。

Okay. That's clear. Walter, just a quick follow-up. How would you measure value creation? Is there a certain ROE or ROIC that you would measure that at? Or is there some other way that you would measure value creation?

好的。很清楚。沃爾特，請快速跟進。您如何衡量價值創造？您是否有特定的 ROE 或 ROIC 來衡量？或者有其他方法可以衡量價值創造嗎？

Yes, we required a spread over walk on our projects. Of course, we are not going to open to the market, what is the required spread. And this is spread, it's not the same for different projects. When we have a retrofit, for example, the spread required are lower because the execution risks are much lower. When we have Cerrado, it's a little bit higher, when is a potential acquisition. It's even higher than that. It's a different spread for different movements that we are doing that is required over walk.

是的，我們需要對我們的項目進行分散的步行。當然，我們不會向市場開放，要求的點差是多少。而且這個是分散的，不同的項目不一樣。例如，當我們進行改造時，所需的價差較低，因為執行風險要低得多。當我們擁有塞拉多時，潛在收購的價格會更高一些。它甚至比那還要高。對於我們正在做的不同動作來說，這是不同的傳播，這需要步行。

Very clear. And good luck, Walter.

非常清楚。祝你好運，沃爾特。

Next question from Leonardo Correa with BTG.

萊昂納多·科雷亞 (Leonardo Correa) 與 BTG 提出了下一個問題。

Can you hear me? Yes?

你聽得到我嗎？是的？

Yes, Leo.

是的，利奧。

Okay. So I have a couple of questions here, guys. Sorry to insist on the capital allocation theme, but I guess it's going to be a bit of a monothematic discussion here today. Yes. So the first point, maybe going back to Jon's issue on M&A internationalization, right, Walter. Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe my understanding over the past quarters and years has been a bit off. But I guess the idea, for me, was always, look, the bar for internationalizing the company is very high. The bar for M&A is high. I mean, I guess you guys were talking about diversifying a bit away from pulp and diversifying from markets from very big China exposure. But I guess the issue -- the main discussion point over the past week has been on size and the level of risk that management is willing -- management and Board is willing to take on via potential move, which would be big, right? And I know that you guys are not commenting specifically on market speculation, which I understand completely. But just to understand, I mean, if the next move would be something big or you would be still my former understanding of something more bolt-on, smaller, lower risk? I just want to see how, if anything, the strategy of the company changed and the level of diversification that you guys are looking for? Because I think that's key. And I don't think the market is, at this point, really understanding what the next move is and how the risk tolerance is in the company and how much diversification you guys are really looking for? So I think any clarity on that would be very helpful for the market.

好的。所以我有幾個問題，夥計們。很抱歉堅持資本配置主題，但我想今天這裡的討論會有點單一。是的。所以第一點，也許回到喬恩關於併購國際化的問題，對吧，沃爾特。如果我錯了，請糾正我，也許我過去幾個季度和幾年的理解有點偏差。但我想對我來說，這個想法一直是，看，公司國際化的門檻非常高。併購的門檻很高。我的意思是，我猜你們正在談論遠離紙漿的多元化，以及遠離中國市場的多元化。但我想這個問題——過去一周的主要討論點是管理層願意承擔的規模和風險水平——管理層和董事會願意通過潛在的舉措來承擔，這將是很大的，對嗎？我知道你們並不是專門針對市場投機發表評論，我完全理解這一點。但只是為了理解，我的意思是，下一步會是一件大事，或者你仍然是我以前對更固定、更小、風險更低的東西的理解嗎？我只是想看看公司的策略發生了怎樣的變化，以及你們所尋求的多元化程度？因為我認為這是關鍵。我認為目前市場還沒有真正了解下一步是什麼，公司的風險承受能力如何，以及你們真正尋求多少多元化？因此，我認為對此的任何澄清都會對市場非常有幫助。

Second point, still on this related topic, right, but on the buyback, right? I mean we've been in the middle of a big correction in shares, something completely unusual, right, for people who follow Suzano for many years. I mean the stock is down quite a lot this week. Clearly, there's a lot of doubt, right, in the market at this point. I mean, under any metric, right, NPV, if we think of multiples, right, into 2025? I mean the stock is highly derated, right? I mean the stock is probably below 5x EBITDA, which, in my view at least, makes very little sense, right, fundamentally. Given that you guys already have a buyback and have been active, I mean, how do you view the return -- the IRR now of buying back shares stacked up to any other investment alternative. I can imagine at this point, shares are looking very attractive. But I just wanted to hear you on that and whether you would be looking to increase the buyback?

第二點，還是這個相關主題吧，但關於回購吧？我的意思是，我們正處於股價大幅調整之中，對於多年來關注蘇扎諾的人來說，這是完全不尋常的事情。我的意思是，本週該股下跌了很多。顯然，目前市場上存在著許多疑問。我的意思是，在任何指標下，對吧，NPV，如果我們考慮到 2025 年的倍數，對吧？我的意思是該股票被大幅降價，對嗎？我的意思是，該股的 EBITDA 可能低於 5 倍，至少在我看來，從根本上來說，這沒有什麼意義。鑑於你們已經進行了回購並且一直很活躍，我的意思是，您如何看待回報——現在回購股票的內部收益率與任何其他投資選擇相加。我可以想像，在這一點上，股票看起來非常有吸引力。但我只是想聽聽您的意見，以及您是否會尋求增加回購？

Thank you, Leo. Yes, I think it's -- we are not going to comment on speculation. I'm going to repeat that, I think, several times during this call. But it's very important to mention that we present to you a framework during the -- our Suzano Day last year, I'm very clear what would be our positioning for the future. We -- of course, we have big deals such as Fibria. We have smaller deals such as Facepa or Ibema, but in every single deal that we are doing, we are looking for value creation to the shareholders on long term, looking for differentiation and looking for scale on the beginning or in the future. But it's very important to mention to you that in every move that we made, we are -- we were very, very disciplined on our financial policy. And we will continue to do that. I'm not understanding the reaction of the market right now. I can't -- of course, from outside, from speculation on the press, that the market is reacting that we are going to do crazy things. I'm assuring you that we are not doing anything that could create any kind of risk to the company. And in the other side, I'm not going to just make any movement here just on the sake of growth. We are going to looking for value creation all the time. This is and could be bolt-on opportunities or can be large opportunities, can be on geography A or B, can be on organic or inorganic. It's always with this mindset. And it's very clear that the market right now is challenging our long-term positioning. But our track record is always on this direction. And we are going to continue on a very disciplined and very clear and humble position to continue working on that direction. Marcelo, now your -- the second question regarding buybacks?

謝謝你，利奧。是的，我認為我們不會對猜測發表評論。我想，我會在這通電話中重複這一點。但值得一提的是，我們在去年的蘇扎諾日期間向您展示了一個框架，我非常清楚我們對未來的定位是什麼。當然，我們有像 Fibria 這樣的大交易。我們有 Facepa 或 Ibema 等規模較小的交易，但在我們正在進行的每一項交易中，我們都在尋求為股東創造長期價值，尋求差異化，並在開始或未來尋求規模化。但非常重要的是要向你們提及，在我們採取的每一步行動中，我們都非常非常嚴格地遵守我們的財務政策。我們將繼續這樣做。我不明白市場現在的反應。當然，我不能從外部、從媒體的猜測來看，市場的反應是我們將要做瘋狂的事。我向您保證，我們不會做任何可能為公司帶來任何風險的事情。另一方面，我不會僅僅為了成長而採取任何行動。我們將一直尋找價值創造。這可能是補充性機會，也可能是大型機會，可以是地理 A 或 B，可以是有機或無機的。總是帶著這樣的心態。很明顯，目前的市場正在挑戰我們的長期定位。但我們的記錄始終朝著這個方向發展。我們將繼續以非常自律、非常明確和謙虛的立場繼續朝著這個方向努力。馬塞洛，現在你的第二個問題是關於回購的？

Yes, Leo, thank you for the question. We have a buyback program open. Of course, during the quiet period now we were not in a position to operate a buyback until the release of the results yesterday. And we will certainly consider that possibility for the future. And of course, this correction on the share price is an additional incentive in that direction, but we have no decision taken in that regard.

是的，利奧，謝謝你的提問。我們有一個開放的回購計劃。當然，在目前的安靜時期，直到昨天公佈業績之前，我們無法進行回購。我們將來一定會考慮這種可能性。當然，股價的調整是朝這個方向的額外激勵，但我們在這方面尚未做出決定。

Next question from Rodolfo Angele with JPMorgan.

下一個問題是來自摩根大通的 Rodolfo Angele。

I'm going to switch course. I have only one question. Isn't it great to be starting up a project like Cerrado in a time when I hear -- now see that you're over sold for the quarter. So my question to you, probably this til now. So what's the strategy for this ramp-up? You showed the typical very fast ramp-up for the project 9 months. But if we start to see price reactions, is there flexibility to accommodate things? So can you comment a little bit on what to expect and any effects we expect to see possible comment on pulp pricing into the second half of the year end in 2025?

我要改變路線。我只有一個問題。當我聽說你們本季的銷售超額時，啟動像塞拉多這樣的計畫不是很棒嗎？所以我問你的問題，可能到現在。那麼本次升級的策略是什麼呢？您展示了該專案典型的 9 個月快速啟動流程。但如果我們開始看到價格反應，是否有彈性適應？那麼，您能否對我們預計到 2025 年下半年紙漿定價可能出現的評論的預期結果和影響發表一下評論？

Hi, Rodolfo. Thank you for the question about Cerrado location. Unfortunately, I start with the bad news, we cannot share our strategy because, obviously, it's quite sensitive to our commercial positioning throughout the next month. However, I can clearly state that fundamentals are indeed quite supportive as we speak. And these unexpected events keep playing a significant role in S&D dynamics, and I guess, surprising all markets, right? We have a big weather-related event just now. And we have to observe what will be happening on the next weeks and months as the year progresses. It is also important to say that one of the key avenues that we have been presenting to you during our Suzano Days or when we are together, is our view on fiber transition, which we call fiber to fiber. Last year, there were over 2.5 million tons of permanent closures in bleach chemical pulp. Half that, we see this year an impact of 1.7 million tons just because of the timing of the announcements. And this year so far, with yesterday's night announcement, we have reached a new 1 million tons of permanent closure in bleach chemical pulp. That poses a huge opportunity for us. We have been saying that hardwood has been gaining market share on fiber through all time and this will only accelerate the speed and the presence and the relevance of hardwood and probably allocating Suzano and Cerrado in this space, which is being left by this pertinent closures as well.

嗨，魯道夫。感謝您詢問有關塞拉多位置的問題。不幸的是，我從壞消息開始，我們無法分享我們的策略，因為顯然，它對我們下個月的商業定位非常敏感。然而，我可以明確地說，就我們而言，基本面確實非常支持。這些意外事件在 S&D 動態中繼續發揮重要作用，我想這會讓所有市場感到驚訝，對嗎？我們剛才有一個與天氣有關的大事件。隨著時間的推移，我們必須觀察接下來幾週和幾個月會發生什麼。同樣重要的是，我們在 Suzano Days 期間或當我們在一起時向您展示的關鍵途徑之一是我們對光纖過渡的看法，我們稱之為光纖到光纖。去年，永久關閉漂白化學漿產量超過250萬噸。其中一半，僅因為宣布的時間，我們預計今年的影響將達到 170 萬噸。今年到目前為止，隨著昨天晚上的公告，我們已經實現了新的100萬噸漂白化學漿的永久關閉。這給我們帶來了巨大的機會。我們一直在說，硬木一直在獲得纖維市場份額，這只會加速硬木的速度、存在和相關性，並可能將 Suzano 和 Cerrado 分配到這個空間，這是由於相關關閉而留下的出色地。

Next question from Caio Ribeiro with Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Caio Ribeiro。

Yes. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity here. So my first question is on paper markets in Brazil, where demand started off the year quite weak. As you mentioned, your leads with printing and writing dropping 20% year-on-year in the first 2 months, and paper mill also down around 6%. I just wanted to see, according to you on what's driving this weakness and your expectations for the coming quarters? And then also on paper prices, right, whether this weakness in demand could translate into further weakness for price. And then secondly, on your pulp cash costs. I just wanted to see, I mean, if you could share a bit more color on how you see them evolving in the coming quarters, what the drivers are there? And if you see room looking a little further ahead for your total operational expenditure guidance for 2027 to see price positive at this point.

是的。大家，早安。感謝這裡給我的機會。我的第一個問題是關於巴西的紙張市場，該市場年初的需求相當疲軟。正如你所提到的，前兩個月你們的印刷和書寫業務比去年同期下降了20%，造紙廠也下降了6%左右。我只是想看看，您認為是什麼導致了這種疲軟以及您對未來幾季的預期？然後還有紙張價格，對吧，需求疲軟是否會轉化為價格進一步疲軟。其次，關於紙漿現金成本。我只是想看看，我的意思是，如果您能分享更多關於您認為它們在未來幾個季度如何發展的信息，驅動因素是什麼？如果您認為 2027 年總營運支出指引還有進一步的空間，那麼此時價格將呈正值。

Caio, it's Fabio here. I'm going to take the first question on the paper side. Paper demand in Brazil, we need to separate here, print and writing and packaging. For print and writing the year has started slower than expected. This is mainly due some postponements in the books program from state and federal government. There's a discussion in Brazil now on about the higher education at curriculum, and that's driving also the postponement of some of the books program. But we understand that moving forward into the year, there's a chance that's going to be even -- the volumes for the books programs going to be even higher due to this curriculum change. It's just a movement of demand throughout the year. So yes, the first quarter, the demand was lower, mainly for uncoated wood-free. And for cut size, the demand was resilient, and we expect demand to improve throughout the year.

凱奧，我是法比奧。我將回答紙面方面的第一個問題。在巴西的紙張需求中，我們需要在這裡將印刷、書寫和包裝分開。對於印刷和寫作來說，今年的開局比預期慢。這主要是由於州和聯邦政府推遲了圖書計劃。巴西現在正在討論高等教育課程，這也導致了一些圖書計畫的延遲。但我們知道，進入今年，由於課程的改變，圖書項目的數量可能會變得更加均勻。這只是全年的需求變動。所以，是的，第一季的需求較低，主要是無塗層木材。對於縮小尺寸，需求具有彈性，我們預計全年需求將有所改善。

Regarding paper prices, we did implement price increases for uncoated wood-free and cut size in the first quarter. We announced around -- between 4% to 5% price increase and this price increase were fully implemented. So -- and we expect these prices to keep until the end of the year. For packaging, the start of the year, as we mentioned, the demand shrunk 6%, and that's mainly due to lower economic activity in consumer spending. And we believe this is a seasonality in the first quarter, and that's expected to change as we move forward. As a matter of fact, we start seeing changes at the end of the first quarter in March and in April. So we are optimistic that it's going to continue to grow as it has been growing for the last years. So it's just a lower start of the year for different reasons here in print and writing and packaging.

關於紙張價格，我們在第一季確實對無塗層雙膠紙和裁切紙實施了漲價。我們宣布價格上漲約 4% 至 5%，而此次漲價已全面實施。因此，我們預計這些價格將保持到今年年底。對於包裝，正如我們所提到的，年初需求萎縮了 6%，這主要是由於消費者支出的經濟活動減少。我們認為這是第一季的季節性因素，隨著我們的前進，這種情況預計會改變。事實上，我們在三月和四月第一季末就開始看到變化。因此，我們樂觀地認為它會像過去幾年一樣繼續成長。因此，由於印刷、寫作和包裝方面的不同原因，今年開局較低。

Hi, Caio, Aires speaking. We continue to see stability in the cash cost production for this year. And of course, after the first quarter and the next ones, we have (inaudible) planted, then it could affect, in certain quarters, the mix and the average distance from forest to the mill, but I believe that to impact little single-digit in the cash cost. And then especially in the fourth quarter, in the first part of next year, after the ramp-up of Cerrado, were our cash cost for our best performance, especially because of the impact of Cerrado. And the growth of our new forest that will reduce our average from forest to the mills, put in order with our target orders 2027.

嗨，凱奧，我是艾利斯。我們繼續看到今年現金成本生產的穩定性。當然，在第一季和下一個季度之後，我們已經（聽不清楚）種植了，那麼它可能會影響某些季度的混合以及從森林到工廠的平均距離，但我相信這對單一影響很小現金成本中的數字。然後，特別是在第四季度，明年上半年，在塞拉多的成長之後，我們為最佳業績付出了現金成本，特別是因為塞拉多的影響。我們新森林的成長將減少我們從森林到工廠的平均產量，與我們 2027 年的目標訂單一致。

Next question from Marcio Farige(sic) [Farid] with Goldman Sachs.

Marcio Farige（原文如此）[Farid] 與高盛提出下一個問題。

Thanks for the time. Leo, first question to you. Obviously, pulp prices have been much stronger than expected for the past few months. There has been kind of unusual situation where Europe is a lot stronger than China, right? And I think you and I have talked about this in the past, China paper margin seems to be on the weak side, but then China paper market (inaudible) always oversupplied. So it's hard to expect margins to improve significantly from here. So I think the question is, I mean, how do you treat these differences -- regional differences from a profitability perspective? And obviously, it does feel like all the incentive is for you to sell as much as possible in Europe where margins and prices are at least -- are close to $100 per ton higher than China, right? Or are we going to be seeing a more aggressive push for China oil prices to catch up to Europe and eventually, we are back to one single global market where profitability is kind of in balance in the different regions. And if you can comment on why pulp futures in China has been so weak? I know it's a hard one, but if you have any idea of what's driving the domestic sentiment would be good.

謝謝你的時間。利奧，第一個問題給你。顯然，過去幾個月紙漿價格遠強於預期。有一種不尋常的情況，歐洲比中國強大很多，對吧？我想你和我過去曾討論過這一點，中國紙業利潤似乎處於弱勢，但中國紙業市場（聽不清楚）總是供應過剩。因此，很難指望利潤率會從此大幅提高。所以我認為問題是，我的意思是，你如何看待這些差異——從盈利角度來看，區域差異？顯然，所有的動力確實是為了讓你在歐洲盡可能多地銷售，那裡的利潤和價格至少比中國高出每噸 100 美元，對嗎？或者我們是否會看到中國油價更積極追趕歐洲，最終我們回到單一的全球市場，不同地區的獲利能力在某種程度上達到平衡。您能否評論一下為什麼中國的紙漿期貨如此疲軟？我知道這很難，但如果你知道是什麼推動了國內情緒，那就太好了。

And then about a follow-up to you on your early comments, please. I know you mentioned some quite successful acquisitions, right? You mentioned Ibema, Kimberly-Brazil, Fibria. I think all of those, they had one thing in common, which was they were all based in Brazil, right? So I think the question here is the idea of internationalization -- I mean what's the strategic rationale behind it? Because I think Suzano was based on the foundation of having competitive and solid biological assets, right? And international companies, they either don't have that first base, or is not close in terms of competitiveness to Brazil, right? So just trying to understand what's -- how -- what will be your ability to generate value outside of Brazil, if not starting from the forest, right? Those are my questions.

然後請對您的早期評論進行後續追蹤。我知道您提到了一些非常成功的收購，對嗎？您提到了 Ibema、金伯利-巴西、Fibria。我認為所有這些人都有一個共同點，那就是他們都位於巴西，對嗎？所以我認為這裡的問題是國際化的理念──我的意思是它背後的戰略理由是什麼？因為我覺得蘇札諾是建立在擁有有競爭力的、堅實的生物資產的基礎上的，對吧？而國際公司，他們不是沒有第一基地，就是在競爭力上與巴西差距不大，對嗎？因此，只是想了解一下，如果不是從森林開始，您在巴西以外創造價值的能力是什麼，如何實現，對嗎？這些都是我的問題。

Okay, Marcio, this is Leo here. I'm going to tackle here the first part of your question or questions. Yes, how do we do this selection between regions? And what do we expect regarding prices? First of all, we follow individual market dynamics being respectful to our customers, understanding their strategies their current dynamics. Obviously, we want a healthy chain throughout all major markets. This situation in China, as we have spoken previously is typical. When prices are moving up, there is generally a market share dispute between the smaller players who usually lose market shares as they have to buy pulp from the traders or in current prices to market, while bigger customers who have inventories who have different average prices in their inventories, use this financial and momentary strength to capture this market share. So all in all, we just see a movement of production from smaller to bigger customers. And since Suzano, as you know, supports mainly or usually these larger customers who buy directly from us. We are being benefited. And actually, as I mentioned, we are actually having even to cap the level of order entry and how we accept this push from Chinese and other customers as well.

好的，馬西奧，我是利奧。我將在這裡解決您的問題的第一部分。是的，我們如何在區域之間進行選擇？我們對價格有何期望？首先，我們遵循個人市場動態，尊重我們的客戶，了解他們的策略和當前動態。顯然，我們希望在所有主要市場都有一個健康的鏈條。我們前面已經講過，中國的這種情況是很典型的。當價格上漲時，較小的參與者之間通常會出現市場份額之爭，他們通常會失去市場份額，因為他們必須從貿易商那裡購買紙漿或以當前價格進入市場，而擁有庫存的較大客戶的平均價格不同他們的庫存，利用這種財務和暫時的優勢來佔領這個市場份額。總而言之，我們只是看到生產從小客戶轉移到大客戶的。如您所知，Suzano 主要或通常支援直接從我們這裡購買的大客戶。我們正在受益。事實上，正如我所提到的，我們實際上甚至必須限制訂單輸入的水平以及我們如何接受來自中國和其他客戶的這種推動。

In regards to difference of prices between market, as we have seen in several past cycles, obviously, as a commodity prices trends towards a convergence. So we expect that prices will converge, will balance out. Obviously, they are not identical as cost to service Europe under the European model and North American model is a bit higher than what we see today in China. But obviously, they are going to tend towards he convergence. And with current S&D fundamentals, all indications would lead us to think that prices in Asia will have -- or still have a lot of space to catch up and to meet other regions and other prices as well.

關於市場之間的價格差異，正如我們在過去的幾個週期中所看到的那樣，顯然，大宗商品價格趨於趨同。因此，我們預期價格將趨同、平衡。顯然，它們並不相同，因為歐洲模式和北美模式的歐洲服務成本比我們今天在中國看到的要高一些。但顯然，他們將趨於趨同。考慮到目前的標準與差基本面，所有跡像都將使我們認為亞洲的價格將會——或者仍然有很大的空間來趕上並滿足其他地區和其他價格的需求。

Last but not least, on your question about pulp futures in China. We cannot comment too much on what goes on this market. We understand it's quite speculative. More than 50% of the trade is done by individuals who have daily trades and not quite related to the business, not a lot of open terms and positions in the market. But what I can say is with all the recent news that we have been reading and seeing on softwood and closures and closures and closures. My expectation is that the price gap tends to be bigger, should be bigger. And what we see in forecast for the future is that this current price gap that we see inclusive in China today and makes no sense and has to -- and we'll be at a completely different level for future years.

最後但同樣重要的是，關於你關於中國紙漿期貨的問題。我們不能對這個市場上的情況發表太多評論。我們知道這是相當投機的。超過50%的交易是由每天進行交易且與業務不太相關的個人完成的，市場上沒有大量的開放條款和頭寸。但我能說的是我們最近閱讀和看到的有關軟木和關閉、關閉和關閉的所有新聞。我的預期是價格差距會更大，應該會更大。我們在對未來的預測中看到的是，我們今天看到的中國目前的價格差距是包容性的，這是沒有意義的，而且必須如此——未來幾年我們將處於完全不同的水平。

Thank you, Marcio, for your question. I'd like to reinforce your point of searching for competitiveness. This is critical for us. We are not going to make any kind of transaction or potential M&A transaction that do not allow us to move on transformation of that asset that could create competitiveness. For us, differentiation is a critical issue for us, and we are always looking for differentiation on our strategy. When we start moving toward (inaudible) business, many of you ask us: Walter, you are entering the business without branding, without any major brand, and without distribution. How we are going to perform on that. And then we said at that time, we have other potential competitiveness sources, but we will look for brand and distribution. Right now, we have all of that. We will not buying assets and keep them on a status quo position. We will always transform the assets. And this is part of the analysis that we are doing all the time when we are going for potential M&A transaction. And this is something very important to us.

謝謝馬西奧提出的問題。我想強調你尋求競爭力的觀點。這對我們來說至關重要。我們不會進行任何類型的交易或潛在的併購交易，因為這些交易或潛在的併購交易不允許我們繼續進行可以創造競爭力的資產轉型。對我們來說，差異化是我們的關鍵問題，我們一直在策略上尋求差異化。當我們開始走向（聽不清楚）業務時，你們中的許多人問我們：沃爾特，你們正在進入沒有品牌、沒有任何主要品牌、也沒有分銷的業務。我們將如何在這方面表現。然後我們當時就說，我們還有其他潛在的競爭力來源，但我們會尋找品牌和分銷。現在，我們擁有這一切。我們不會購買資產並將其維持現狀。我們將始終對資產進行改造。這是我們在進行潛在併購交易時一直在進行的分析的一部分。這對我們來說非常重要。

You are right when you mentioned about the lack of expertise on internationalization. And you are right about that. We need to be humble about this position. This is something new for us, and we need to do it as well with the same track record that we had in Brazil. Then as I mentioned to you, geographies is not for us a limitation. In the future, the company will go through internationalization, and this is very important to mention to you. And we hope -- and we will work very hard to keep the same performance that we had on our track record of M&A transactions here in Brazil.

當你提到缺乏國際專業知識時，你是對的。你是對的。我們需要對這個立場保持謙虛。這對我們來說是新事物，我們也需要以與巴西相同的記錄來做到這一點。正如我向您提到的，地理位置對我們來說不是限制。未來公司將走向國際化，這一點非常值得向大家提及。我們希望——並且我們將非常努力地保持與巴西併購交易記錄相同的表現。

Next question from Alfonso Salazar with Scotiabank.

下一個問題來自豐業銀行的阿方索·薩拉查。

Hello?

你好？

Hello, go ahead, Alfonso.

你好，繼續吧，阿方索。

Thank you. So well, a moment ago, you mentioned that you were -- that Suzano is agnostic about organic or organic growth and also about geographies. The question that I have is what about products? Are you agnostic also about growth in different products like pulp, tissue or other paper grades? And related to this question is, we know that there are at least two other large pulp mills being under analysis in Brazil. And to what extent this changed the view that forestry land, good forestry land for a new pulp mill is scarce in Brazil? And what are the expectations in that regard, especially because we thought that -- or at least my impression is that it's going to be more challenging to build a new pulp mill in Brazil in the future?

謝謝。好吧，剛才你提到蘇札諾對有機或有機成長以及地理位置持不可知論。我的問題是產品怎麼樣？您是否對紙漿、生活用紙或其他紙張等級等不同產品的成長持不可知論？與這個問題相關的是，我們知道巴西至少還有另外兩家大型紙漿廠正在分析中。這在多大程度上改變了人們的觀點：林地、適合新紙漿廠的良好林地在巴西是稀缺的？在這方面的期望是什麼，特別是因為我們認為——或者至少我的印像是，未來在巴西建造一座新的紙漿廠將更具挑戰性？

Thank you, Alfonso. I'm going to start with the second question. Brazil will face opportunities in your plans for the future. But at this point of time now, we have wood scarcity that we have in Brazil. And as you know, one of the -- we are not seeing any construction of new plant at this point of time. We are not going to see a new plant in Brazil in the next 3 years. It's almost impossible to have that. Then, of course, everybody can build your land banking, then they can start planting and they can have wood for the future. This is a possibility, but not on the short term. It's very important to mention, as well, that new projects will require higher pulp prices. The CapEx cost per ton is going up, the wood cost is going up. The land is going up, the interest rates are high. This is going to require higher pulp prices for the future. I'm very pleased to see that with higher pulp prices, it happens on the future. Suzano is very well positioned to deliver very good returns to our shareholders. Regarding the first question on the products, we could have different verticals that we aim for the future. We already mentioned to you during our Suzano Day last year that textile market, it's an important market for us on the future packaging market. It's an important market that we are looking for in the future, then we will consider these possibilities. This is not a decision made at this point of time, but we will consider how we are going to expand on different verticals for the future.

謝謝你，阿方索。我將從第二個問題開始。巴西將在你的未來計畫中面臨機會。但目前，我們正面臨巴西那樣的木材短缺問題。如您所知，其中之一 - 目前我們還沒有看到任何新工廠的建設。未來三年我們不會在巴西看到新工廠。這幾乎是不可能的。當然，每個人都可以建立自己的土地儲備，然後他們可以開始種植，並且可以為未來提供木材。這是有可能的，但短期內不會。值得一提的是，新項目將需要更高的紙漿價格。每噸資本支出成本正在上漲，木材成本也在上漲。土地漲價，利率高。這將需要未來更高的紙漿價格。我很高興看到隨著紙漿價格的上漲，這種情況在未來會發生。 Suzano 處於非常有利的位置，可以為我們的股東帶來豐厚的回報。關於產品的第一個問題，我們未來的目標可能是不同的垂直領域。我們在去年的蘇扎諾日期間已經向您提到了紡織品市場，它是我們未來包裝市場的一個重要市場。這是我們未來尋找的重要市場，然後我們會考慮這些可能性。這不是現在做出的決定，但我們將考慮未來如何在不同的垂直領域擴展。

The Q&A session is over. We would like to hand the floor back to Mr. Walter Schalka for his final remarks.

問答環節結束。我們想請沃爾特·沙爾卡先生發表最後的演講。

Well, I would like to thank you very much. I'd like to spend 2 or 3 minutes to thank a lot of people here. We are -- after more than 50 of these sessions that I had in the last 11 years with you. I'm going to hand over my position to Beto. But I'd like to thank you, starting thank you, the Board of Directors of Suzano that have been supporting us at the C-level for the last 11 years. I would like to thank you everyone of my colleagues at the C-level that have been working with us to deliver a new company, to transform Suzano all the time. I would like to have a very big applause to more than 40,000 people that every single day have been working with us to make the Suzano better and to impact the society impact all the stakeholders and how we can transform Suzano all the time.

嗯，我非常感謝你。我想花兩三分鐘感謝這裡的很多人。在過去 11 年裡我與你們進行了 50 多次這樣的會議之後，我們是這樣的。我要把我的位置交給貝托。但我要感謝你們，首先感謝 Suzano 董事會，他們在過去 11 年裡一直在 C 級層面支持我們。我要感謝每一位 C 級同事，他們一直與我們合作打造一家新公司，不斷改造 Suzano。我想向 40,000 多人致以熱烈的掌聲，他們每天都在與我們一起努力，讓 Suzano 變得更好，影響社會，影響所有利益相關者，以及我們如何始終改變 Suzano。

And more than that, I would like to thank you as well, the buy and the sell side that we have been working with us for many years, understanding the company, bringing new ideas, investors, there is bringing new ideas to us challenging our position. We are very humble all the time to hear, listen, and to implement things that you have been recommending for us several times. The good news is that the company has been improving. We are not perfect. We will not be perfect, but we have been improving a lot this organization. I'm very pleased from the impact that we had with the society on not only environmental side, but in the social side as well. And on the economic side, creating value to different stakeholders, and I'm very pleased with this development. Thank you very much for that. Now I'm going to pass to Beto Abreu for his few words, and not only a few words, but the first words as a leading of this organization for the future.

不僅如此，我還要感謝你們，買方和賣方，我們多年來一直與我們合作，了解公司，帶來新的想法，投資者，給我們帶來新的想法，挑戰我們的目標。我們一直非常謙虛地傾聽、傾聽並實施您多次向我們推薦的事情。好消息是該公司一直在進步。我們並不完美。我們不會是完美的，但我們已經對這個組織做了很大的改進。我對我們不僅在環境方面而且在社會方面對社會產生的影響感到非常高興。而在經濟方面，為不同的利害關係人創造價值，我對這項發展感到非常滿意。非常感謝你。現在我要請貝托·阿布魯（Beto Abreu）感謝他的幾句話，不僅僅是幾句話，而是作為這個組織未來的領導者的第一句話。

Thank you very much, Walter, and hello, everyone. Walter, let me start saying my congratulations to you. It's really very hard to see such a brilliant journey as a leader as you did. So all the best for you in the next cycle. So that's what we all deserve. I also want to say that I'm very glad to join this group to be part of this team. This is a unique organization. This is a very powerful team and a very broad, I would say, business platform to keep creating value for all of our stakeholders. And I must say with the same level of discipline in capital allocation. I also want to say to all of you that we're going to continuously hard working to generate this value. And I'm also looking forward to meet you, either to see you personally to keep talking about our business. So very thank you to attending the call, and I will have the pleasure to be with you in the next coming months. Thank you very much.

非常感謝你，沃爾特，大家好。沃特，讓我開始向你表示祝賀。身為一個領導者，能看到像你這樣輝煌的旅程，真的很難。因此，在下一個週期中祝您一切順利。所以這就是我們所有人應得的。我還想說，我很高興能加入這個團隊，成為這個團隊的一員。這是一個獨特的組織。我想說，這是一個非常強大的團隊，也是一個非常廣泛的商業平台，可以持續為我們所有的利害關係人創造價值。我必須說，在資本配置方面也具有同樣的紀律。我還想對大家說，我們將不斷努力創造這個價值。我也期待見到您，或親自見到您，繼續談論我們的業務。非常感謝您參加這次電話會議，我將很高興在接下來的幾個月與您在一起。非常感謝。

The Suzano S.A. First Quarter of the 2024 conference call is concluded. The Investor Relations department is available to answer further questions you may have. Thank you, and have a good afternoon.

Suzano S.A. 2024 年第一季電話會議結束。投資者關係部門可以回答您的進一步問題。謝謝您，祝您下午愉快。