Sunworks Inc (SUNW) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings and welcome to Sunworks, Inc. fourth-quarter and full-year 2022 results conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Jason Bonfigt, Chief Financial Officer. Thank you. You may begin.

歡迎來到 Sunworks, Inc. 第四季度和 2022 年全年業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）提醒一下，正在錄製此會議。現在我很高興向您介紹主持人 Jason Bonfigt，他是首席財務官。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Thank you, Operator. I'm Jason Bonfigt, Chief Financial Officer of Sunworks. On behalf of our entire team. I'd like to welcome you to our fourth-quarter and full-year 2022 results conference call. Leading the call with me today is our President and CEO, Gaylon Morris.

謝謝你，運營商。我是 Sunworks 的首席財務官 Jason Bonfigt。代表我們整個團隊。歡迎大家參加我們的 2022 年第四季度和全年業績電話會議。今天與我一起主持電話會議的是我們的總裁兼首席執行官 Gaylon Morris。

Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements about future business and financial expectations. Actual results may differ significantly from those projected in today's forward-looking statements due to various risks and uncertainties including the risks described in our periodic reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Except as required by law, we undertake no obligation to update our forward-looking statements. Following our prepared remarks, we will open the line for questions.

今天的討論包含有關未來業務和財務預期的前瞻性陳述。由於各種風險和不確定性，包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的定期報告中描述的風險，實際結果可能與今天的前瞻性陳述中預測的結果大不相同。除法律要求外，我們不承擔更新前瞻性陳述的義務。在我們準備好的評論之後，我們將打開問題熱線。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Gaylon.

有了這個，我想把電話轉給蓋倫。

Thank you, Jason, and welcome to those joining us today. During 2022, we continued to build a leading integrated solar solutions platform across our core regional markets while continuing to advance our business transformation strategy. Last year, we continued to drive an improved velocity of installation, ensuring improved customer retention between project originations and installations.

謝謝你，傑森，歡迎今天加入我們的人。 2022 年，我們繼續在核心區域市場打造領先的綜合太陽能解決方案平台，同時繼續推進我們的業務轉型戰略。去年，我們繼續推動提高安裝速度，確保提高項目發起和安裝之間的客戶保留率。

We continued to reweight origination toward our direct sales channel, thereby reducing customer acquisition expense. We expanded our procurement relationships with an emphasis on increased access to domestically sourced materials. And we moved further towards a centralized operating model, one that further positions us to move quickly in support of individual customer requirements.

我們繼續重新調整直銷渠道的來源，從而降低客戶獲取費用。我們擴大了採購關係，重點是增加對國內採購材料的獲取。我們進一步轉向集中式運營模式，該模式進一步使我們能夠快速行動以支持個性化客戶需求。

In summary, it was a year of significant organizational change and transformation, one that culminated in strong fourth-quarter revenue growth of more than 70% versus the prior year period, given sustained market share gains across both our residential and commercial segments. Our residential solar segment, which represented 83% of total fourth-quarter revenue, delivered strong year-over-year growth in revenue, new installations, originations, and backlog as recent investments in our direct sales force have contributed significant ongoing market share gains.

總而言之，這是發生重大組織變革和轉型的一年，第四季度收入較上年同期強勁增長 70% 以上，這得益於我們在住宅和商業領域的市場份額持續增長。我們的住宅太陽能部門佔第四季度總收入的 83%，在收入、新安裝、發起和積壓訂單方面實現了強勁的同比增長，因為最近對我們的直銷隊伍的投資為市場份額的持續增長做出了巨大貢獻。

Within residential, our direct sales channel represented a record 27% of fourth-quarter revenue up from 5% in the prior year period. Since the Solcius' acquisition in 2021, we've increased our direct sales force to more than 600 representatives, positioning us to drive above-market originations growth. By the end of 2023, we expect our direct sales channel will represent approximately half of our annual sales.

在住宅領域，我們的直銷渠道佔第四季度收入的比例達到創紀錄的 27%，高於去年同期的 5%。自 2021 年收購 Solcius 以來，我們的直銷隊伍已增加到 600 多名代表，使我們能夠推動高於市場的原創增長。到 2023 年底，我們預計我們的直銷渠道將占我們年銷售額的大約一半。

While the pace of revenue growth evidenced in the fourth quarter reflects robust demand for our solar solutions, a combination of rising interest rates and general economic uncertainty muted new originations in the period. While origination growth remained challenged into the first quarter of 2023, we have begun to see rebound recently with improving weather in our key markets.

雖然第四季度收入增長的步伐反映了對我們太陽能解決方案的強勁需求，但利率上升和總體經濟不確定性共同抑制了這一時期的新起源。雖然到 2023 年第一季度，原始增長仍然面臨挑戰，但隨著我們主要市場天氣的改善，我們最近開始看到反彈。

In response, we have taken targeted actions to curb the impact of higher financing costs on the pace of solar adoption across our customer base. These actions include the addition of new loan providers together with solar power purchase agreement options, which will materially lower the total cost of ownership for consumers.

作為回應，我們已採取有針對性的行動來遏制更高的融資成本對我們客戶群採用太陽能的速度的影響。這些行動包括增加新的貸款提供者以及太陽能購買協議選項，這將大大降低消費者的總擁有成本。

While many Americans continue to face a rising cost of living, including rising monthly utility bills, we expect homeowners will continue to pursue solar power to reduce or eliminate their utility bills while becoming energy independent. Rising electricity prices continue to drive increased solar adoption, particularly in California, which represented more than 40% of total sales in 2022.

雖然許多美國人繼續面臨不斷上漲的生活成本，包括每月水電費上漲，但我們預計房主將繼續尋求太陽能以減少或消除他們的水電費，同時實現能源獨立。不斷上漲的電價繼續推動太陽能應用的增加，尤其是在加利福尼亞州，2022 年佔總銷售額的 40% 以上。

Before I turn the call over to Jason for his remarks, allow me to provide a general outlook for our business entering 2023. We believe the recent passage of the Inflation Reduction Act will provide an important secular tailwind for the domestic solar industry beginning this year. As detailed in the legislation, the solar industry will have unprecedented access to both production and investment tax credits for domestic manufacturing across the solar supply chain over the next decade, providing significant incentives and visibility for consumers.

在我將電話轉給 Jason 發表評論之前，請允許我對我們進入 2023 年的業務進行總體展望。我們相信，最近通過的《降低通脹法案》將從今年開始為國內太陽能行業提供重要的長期順風。正如立法所詳述的那樣，在未來十年內，太陽能行業將前所未有地獲得國內製造業在整個太陽能供應鏈中的生產和投資稅收抵免，從而為消費者提供重要的激勵和知名度。

We believe solar adoption rates will accelerate as the market is fully educated on the significant financial incentives afforded by the IRA. At the same time, we anticipate a higher interest rate environment could severely impact smaller competitors, positioning larger platforms such as Solcius to take market share during a period of competitive churn. As higher rates become the new normal, we think consumers will recalibrate to a slightly higher total cost of ownership as is currently happening in the residential housing market.

我們相信，隨著市場充分了解 IRA 提供的重要財政激勵措施，太陽能的採用率將會加快。與此同時，我們預計更高的利率環境可能會嚴重影響較小的競爭對手，從而使 Solcius 等較大的平台在競爭激烈的客戶流失期間佔據市場份額。隨著更高的利率成為新常態，我們認為消費者將重新調整以適應住宅市場目前發生的略高的總擁有成本。

Over time, we see the potential for Sunworks to expand its project financing capabilities, providing customers with a more robust solution offering that makes solar adoption that much more accessible. This year, we have begun to aggressively pursue strategies to further enhance our value proposition with customers and sales channel partners. For example, we believe battery and electric vehicle charging adoption rates will grow rapidly over the next few years. With this in mind, we are actively pursuing these and related product adjacencies, given both their appeal to our customers as well as their attractive margin profile.

隨著時間的推移，我們看到了 Sunworks 擴展其項目融資能力的潛力，為客戶提供更強大的解決方案，使太陽能的採用變得更加容易。今年，我們開始積極推行戰略，進一步提升我們對客戶和銷售渠道合作夥伴的價值主張。例如，我們認為電池和電動汽車充電採用率將在未來幾年內快速增長。考慮到這一點，我們正在積極尋求這些和相關產品的相鄰性，因為它們對我們的客戶具有吸引力以及它們具有吸引力的利潤率。

On balance, I'm positive on the outlook for our businesses entering 2023. A combination of sustained market share gains, recent price actions, and favorable long-term demand fundamentals, particularly with the added benefit of the IRA, position us to move closer towards EBITDA breakeven.

總的來說，我對我們進入 2023 年的業務前景持樂觀態度。持續的市場份額增長、近期價格走勢和有利的長期需求基本面，尤其是 IRA 的額外好處，使我們能夠更接近實現 EBITDA 收支平衡。

With that, I will hand the call over to Jason for a review of our fourth-quarter results.

有了這個，我將把電話交給傑森，讓他審查我們第四季度的業績。

Thank you, Gaylon. Beginning with a summary of our full-year financial performance. Sunworks generated total revenue of $161.9 million in the full year 2022, an increase of 60% versus the prior year period, driven by increased contributions from our residential solar segment and a full year of benefit of the Solcius acquisition, which closed in April of 2021.

謝謝你，蓋倫。首先是我們全年財務業績的總結。 Sunworks 在 2022 年全年的總收入為 1.619 億美元，比上年同期增長 60%，這得益於我們的住宅太陽能部門的貢獻增加以及 Solcius 收購的全年收益，該收購於 2021 年 4 月結束.

Commercial solar energy revenue decreased $6.9 million compared to the prior year period, primarily driven by the timing of project start dates associated with orders received in the current year. Total gross profit increased 75% versus the prior year to $71.3 million, supported by revenue growth and partially offset by labor and materials inflation.

與去年同期相比，商業太陽能收入減少了 690 萬美元，這主要是由於與當年收到的訂單相關的項目開始日期的時間安排所致。總毛利潤比上年增長 75% 至 7130 萬美元，這得益於收入增長，部分被勞動力和材料通脹所抵消。

For the full year 2022, we reported a net loss of $28.2 million or $0.86 per basic share versus a net loss of $26.6 million in the prior year period or $0.99 per basic share. Adjusted EBITDA was a loss of $20.7 million in 2022 compared to a loss of $13.3 million in the prior year. In the fourth quarter 2022, we generated total revenue of $53.6 million, an increase of 69% versus the prior year period due mainly to higher installation volumes within our residential segment, together with higher order intake from prior periods and elevated backlog within our commercial segment.

對於 2022 年全年，我們報告淨虧損 2820 萬美元或每股基本股 0.86 美元，而去年同期淨虧損 2660 萬美元或每股基本股 0.99 美元。調整後的 EBITDA 在 2022 年虧損 2070 萬美元，而上一年虧損 1330 萬美元。 2022 年第四季度，我們的總收入為 5360 萬美元，比去年同期增長 69%，這主要是由於住宅部門的安裝量增加，以及前期訂單量增加以及商業部門積壓增加.

During the fourth quarter, residential and commercial revenues represented approximately 83% and 17% of total revenue, respectively. Total gross profit increased to $22 million in the fourth quarter versus $13.7 million in the prior year period. The year-over-year variance was primarily attributable to increase in revenue in both segments, partially offset by margin degradation resulting from increased labor costs, together with jurisdictional permitting, and weather delays.

第四季度，住宅和商業收入分別佔總收入的 83% 和 17%。第四季度總毛利潤增至 2200 萬美元，而去年同期為 1370 萬美元。同比差異主要歸因於這兩個部門的收入增加，部分被勞動力成本增加、司法許可和天氣延誤導致的利潤率下降所抵消。

We reported a net loss of $7 million in the fourth quarter 2022 or $0.20 per basic share versus a net loss of $13.5 million in the prior year period or $0.47 per basic share. The year-over-year variance was primarily attributable to a $5.5 million goodwill impairment in the prior year quarter and due to the increases in revenue and gross profit in the current quarter. Adjusted EBITDA was a loss of $5.6 million in the fourth quarter compared to a loss of $4.4 million in the fourth quarter of 2021.

我們報告 2022 年第四季度淨虧損 700 萬美元或每股基本股 0.20 美元，而去年同期淨虧損 1350 萬美元或每股基本股 0.47 美元。同比差異主要歸因於去年同期 550 萬美元的商譽減值以及本季度收入和毛利潤的增加。調整後的 EBITDA 第四季度虧損 560 萬美元，而 2021 年第四季度虧損 440 萬美元。

Turning to a review of our residential solar segment, which is our Solcius business. Fourth-quarter segment revenue increased 70% year over year to $44.4 million, driven by growth across all sales channels. Total residential watts installed increased 57% year over year in the fourth quarter. Direct sales represented approximately 28% of total revenue installed in the fourth quarter versus approximately 5% in the prior year period.

轉向審查我們的住宅太陽能部門，這是我們的 Solcius 業務。受所有銷售渠道增長的推動，第四季度分部收入同比增長 70% 至 4,440 萬美元。第四季度住宅總裝機功率同比增長 57%。直接銷售約佔第四季度安裝總收入的 28%，而去年同期約為 5%。

Total residential backlog increased 38% on a year-over-year basis to $54.6 million as of December 31, 2022, driven by growth in direct originations. Within our commercial segment revenue increased 65% year over year to $9.2 million, and the commercial backlog increased by 50% on a year over year basis.

截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日，在直接來源增長的推動下，住宅積壓訂單總額同比增長 38% 至 5460 萬美元。在我們的商業部門，收入同比增長 65% 至 920 萬美元，商業積壓訂單同比增長 50%。

Turning to our balance sheet. At the end of the fourth quarter, we had no debt and $7.8 million in cash to support the ongoing growth of the business. Earlier in the year, we wrestled with supply chain issues, particularly related to sourcing and availability of solar modules. These conditions improve materially as the year progressed, leading to increased availability of modules into 2023.

轉向我們的資產負債表。到第四季度末，我們沒有債務和 780 萬美元的現金來支持業務的持續增長。今年早些時候，我們努力解決供應鏈問題，尤其是與太陽能模塊的採購和可用性有關的問題。隨著時間的推移，這些條件有了實質性的改善，導致組件的可用性增加到 2023 年。

Increased module availability, coupled with moderating labor inflation are both positive margin tailwinds for Sunworks. Given the supply chain challenges, specifically with modules, we invested heavily into building inventory to support our growth. Exiting the year, we had several quarters of commercial modules and three to four months of residential modules on hand.

模塊可用性的提高，加上勞動力通脹的放緩，都是 Sunworks 的積極利潤順風。鑑於供應鏈挑戰，特別是模塊方面的挑戰，我們投入巨資建立庫存以支持我們的增長。今年年底，我們手頭有幾個季度的商業模塊和三到四個月的住宅模塊。

As a result of this, our inventory increased by $16 million during the year. However, operating working capital growth was approximately $5 million -- $5.5 million as we realized in improvements in DPO, as well as deposits received from customers and our lenders. As module conditions improve, we will continue to scale back our inventory levels to more normalized levels, which should result in operating working capital tailwind throughout 2023.

因此，我們的庫存在這一年增加了 1600 萬美元。然而，運營營運資本增長約為 500 萬美元——550 萬美元，因為我們意識到 DPO 的改進，以及從客戶和我們的貸方收到的存款。隨著模塊條件的改善，我們將繼續將我們的庫存水平縮減至更正常的水平，這將導致整個 2023 年的運營營運資金順風。

Operator, that concludes our prepared remarks. Please open the line for questions as we begin our question-and-answer session.

接線員，我們準備好的發言到此結束。在我們開始問答環節時，請打開問題熱線。

(Operator Instructions) Donovan Schafer, Northland Capital Markets.

（操作員說明）北方資本市場的 Donovan Schafer。

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking the questions, and congratulations on the revenue numbers. Those are really fantastic. I think everyone wants to see gross margin improvement. So my first question is actually when I look, gross margins were down quarter over quarter and also year over year, and you kind of gave some reasons for that. But I know the way you do gross margins, you don't include the sales and marketing expense, which, yes, can be a pretty variable cost on customer originations.

大家好。感謝您提出問題，並祝賀收入數字。那些真的很棒。我想每個人都希望看到毛利率提高。所以我的第一個問題實際上是，當我看時，毛利率環比下降，同比下降，你給出了一些原因。但我知道你計算毛利率的方式，你不包括銷售和營銷費用，是的，這可能是客戶發起的一個非常可變的成本。

And so when they take gross profit and subtract sales and marketing, and I'm doing this on a consolidated basis, that's kind of accrued approach. But when I do that to get a sort of call it like an adjusted gross margin or an after-sales cost gross margin, it actually looks like there was a year-over-year improvement. When I do that, I get like a 14%. That's like adjusted gross margin in the fourth quarter this year versus 12% a year ago. Of course, there is cost inflation and other things.

因此，當他們計算毛利並減去銷售和營銷時，我是在合併的基礎上這樣做的，這是一種應計方法。但是當我這樣做以獲得調整後的毛利率或售後成本毛利率之類的稱呼時，它實際上看起來比去年同期有所改善。當我這樣做時，我得到了 14%。這就像今年第四季度調整後的毛利率與一年前的 12% 相比。當然，還有成本膨脹和其他問題。

So I'm just curious if you could talk to that at all, like what you're seeing at that -- is that corresponds to what you're seeing if -- once you talk about the shift, you include the shift to more direct sales, that's actually improving you -- improving margins if you're thinking about customer acquisition costs. And that you argue -- you have seen even this quarter an improvement there? Or are there actually more kinks to work out where just increasing percent of direct sales is actually misleading on that front? And -- or maybe my math is wrong or something? Can you just talk through that?

所以我很好奇你是否可以談論它，就像你在那裡看到的那樣 - 這是否對應於你所看到的 - 一旦你談到轉變，你就包括轉向更多直銷，這實際上是在提高你——如果你考慮客戶獲取成本，那麼提高利潤率。你認為 - 你甚至在本季度也看到了那裡的改善？或者實際上有更多的問題需要解決，只是增加直接銷售的百分比實際上在這方面具有誤導性？而且——或者也許我的數學有誤或什麼的？你能談談嗎？

Good morning, Donovan. It's Jason. I think you're thinking about that right. It's important to look at it on a segment basis rather than consolidated because the different segments have varying margin profiles. I think you're trying to get at residential and dig into that a little bit more. On the first point on a sequential basis, we did have a one-time accounting adjustment in the prior quarter that was 300 or 400 basis points of a difference. I think when you look at it sequentially without that one-time benefit, there wasn't a significant change.

早上好，多諾萬。是傑森。我認為你正在考慮這個權利。重要的是要按細分市場而不是合併來看待它，因為不同的細分市場有不同的利潤率。我認為您正在嘗試進入住宅並深入研究一下。在連續的第一點上，我們確實在上一季度進行了一次會計調整，差異為 300 或 400 個基點。我認為當你在沒有一次性收益的情況下按順序查看它時，並沒有顯著的變化。

We do look at gross margin less our sales and marketing costs as a reflection of the margin profile of the business and then are we bringing on accretive solutions. And so I think you're thinking about that, right. We did have a lot of challenges in Q4 with weather specifically in residential, in California, and a couple of other markets that just led to just delays and inefficiencies.

我們確實將毛利率減去我們的銷售和營銷成本，作為業務利潤率狀況的反映，然後我們會推出增值解決方案。所以我認為你正在考慮這個，對吧。我們在第四季度確實遇到了很多挑戰，特別是在住宅區、加利福尼亞州和其他幾個市場，這些天氣導致了延誤和效率低下。

So we'd like to see over the course of Q1 is certainly going to continue to be a little challenged given the weather events across the country, but we'd expect that to increase throughout the year. And then as we think about our direct sales platform, we've been making quite a few investments in that sales force to onboard that. And as we get leverage, we are expecting the percent after you take gross margin minus your sales and marketing expense to gradually improve as well, because we're onboarding more direct and it's into higher percentage of our overall population.

因此，鑑於全國各地的天氣事件，我們希望看到第一季度肯定會繼續受到一些挑戰，但我們預計全年都會增加。然後當我們考慮我們的直銷平台時，我們一直在對該銷售隊伍進行大量投資以加入該平台。隨著我們獲得槓桿作用，我們預計毛利率減去銷售和營銷費用後的百分比也會逐漸提高，因為我們正在更直接地入職，並且它在我們總人口中所佔的比例更高。

Okay. That's helpful. And kind of on the same theme I think is on the deck or the release you said you have a target of getting to 50% of sales coming from your direct channel. Let's just say year-end '23 maybe year-end '24. You can correct me on that. But the question is, have you done anything in terms of kind of like modeling or translating that into a financial metric or something we'd see in the statements in terms of like what that would mean?

好的。這很有幫助。我認為在同一個主題上，或者你說你的目標是讓 50% 的銷售額來自你的直接渠道。我們只說 23 年年底或 24 年年底。你可以糾正我。但問題是，您是否做過任何類似建模或將其轉化為財務指標或我們在報表中看到的類似含義的事情？

I mean, I could kind of figure it out where at least in the past you said -- and this is another area where you correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe in the past you said customer acquisition costs for the direct channel are about two-thirds of what they are for third-party channels. So with that I can kind of model out what's the implication. Obviously, you get to 50% sales from direct channel.

我的意思是，我至少可以弄清楚你過去所說的 - 如果我錯了，這是你糾正我的另一個領域，但我相信過去你說過直接渠道的客戶獲取成本大約是第三方渠道的三分之二。因此，我可以模擬出這意味著什麼。顯然，您可以從直接渠道獲得 50% 的銷售額。

So either if you've already worked out some numbers or if you can kind of steer me one direction or another based on that kind of two-thirds, if I'm right or wrong on that, just trying to get at what would the implication be of 50% from direct sales channel?

因此，如果您已經計算出一些數字，或者如果您可以根據那種三分之二來引導我一個或另一個方向，如果我對此是對還是錯，只是想知道什麼會暗示50%來自直銷渠道？

So if you look at, let's just call the gross margin minus our sales and marketing expense as a company, let's just call that net margin, for example, in Q4, you're right around 9 percentage points. And so that's the blend of the dealer channel, telesales, and direct sales. We -- as you can see, if you look back at the historical financials of Solcius prior to the acquisition, that number was in the upper to mid-teens. That is where we're targeting this business to get to, especially as we grow our direct sales channel. I think the two-thirds number, I would challenge that that the cost of that organization, as a direct organization is not that much less than other dealer channels.

因此，如果您看一下，我們只稱毛利率減去我們作為一家公司的銷售和營銷費用，我們就稱其為淨利潤率，例如，在第四季度，您大約是 9 個百分點。這就是經銷商渠道、電話銷售和直接銷售的結合。我們——正如你所看到的，如果你回顧一下收購前 Solcius 的歷史財務狀況，這個數字在十幾歲到十幾歲之間。這就是我們瞄準這項業務的目標，尤其是在我們發展直銷渠道的時候。我認為三分之二的數字，我會質疑該組織的成本，作為一個直接組織，並不比其他經銷商渠道少多少。

So that ultimately, we have to be competitive to bring on these other -- even with even third-parties that come into our direct sales organization. And we need to be competitive from a cost standpoint so that we can generate sales and we're still cost competitive to the homeowners. So I think you might be -- I think, as you're modeling it, I wouldn't be modeling it as aggressive as that.

因此，最終，我們必須具有競爭力才能吸引其他人——即使是第三方進入我們的直銷組織。從成本的角度來看，我們需要具有競爭力，這樣我們才能產生銷售，並且我們仍然對房主具有成本競爭力。所以我認為你可能會 - 我認為，當你對其進行建模時，我不會將其建模得那麼激進。

Okay. And then if I could get another one in, I'm just curious in terms of you mentioned fourth quarter originations being down, like the fourth-quarter installations are great, sales are fantastic, originations are down a bit, and that interest rates and seasonality are big drivers of that.

好的。然後如果我能得到另一個，我只是好奇你提到第四季度的起源下降，就像第四季度的安裝很好，銷售非常好，起源有點下降，而且利率和季節性是其中的重要驅動力。

But I'm curious, I guess the first part of the question would be, was there any was kind of potential like a pull forward from Q1 '23? Given the lower originations I mean, were you doing, for instance, perhaps region like promotions in the third quarter and so that drives higher third quarter in originations and then higher fourth quarter installations. But then if the promotion goes away, you get lower fourth-quarter originations. I mean, are there any other dynamics like that beyond just seasonality and originations? That's like the first part.

但我很好奇，我想問題的第一部分是，是否有任何潛力，比如從 23 年第一季度開始的拉動？鑑於我的意思是較低的起源，例如，你是否在第三季度進行類似區域的促銷活動，從而推動更高的第三季度起源和更高的第四季度安裝。但如果促銷活動消失，第四季度的發起人數就會減少。我的意思是，除了季節性和起源之外，還有其他類似的動態嗎？這就像第一部分。

And then the other one would just be the interest rates part certainly makes sense. For weather or seasonality, you have always known seasonality can have a big impact on installations. But I guess it wouldn't have really occurred to me for originations. And in the past, I think you could actually do really well with originations in the fourth quarter, but a lot of times that was maybe also because of an ITC expiration or an ITC step down.

然後另一個只是利率部分當然是有道理的。對於天氣或季節性，您一直都知道季節性會對安裝產生重大影響。但我想我不會真的想到起源。在過去，我認為你實際上可以在第四季度的起源方面做得很好，但很多時候這也可能是因為 ITC 到期或 ITC 下台。

And so there is this sense of urgency where you could convince customers, do it now or the credits are going away. So can you just kind of course correct me on that in terms of what the seasonality would be on a normalized basis for originations? And how weather impacts on originations? Is it just, it's raining, so people, it's raining, you don't want to be door knocking. I mean, does that make sense?

因此，有一種緊迫感，你可以說服客戶，現在就做，否則信用就會消失。那麼，您能否根據起源的標準化基礎上的季節性來糾正我這一點？天氣如何影響起源？只是，正在下雨，所以人們，正在下雨，你不想敲門。我的意思是，這有意義嗎？

I can start and then I'll hand it off to Gaylon for the second part of the question. So seasonality certainly was at play. We weren't marketing to consumers or homeowners any different way in Q4. And typically, there is a seasonality impact. I think as you as we look at benchmark and other third-party providers of data that showed what's happening with permits in Q4, you really saw a drop in the growth rate and a reduction in Q4.

我可以開始，然後我將把問題的第二部分交給 Gaylon。所以季節性肯定在起作用。我們在第四季度沒有以任何不同的方式向消費者或房主進行營銷。通常，會有季節性影響。我認為當我們查看基準和其他第三方數據提供商顯示第四季度許可情況時，您確實看到了增長率下降和第四季度減少。

And we think it's a lot of that is driven by the sort of all the effects throughout the year with interest rate increases, dealer fees, changing on loan products and then all the inflationary pressures that came in. So certainly we felt some pressure in Q4 and into early Q1. So what are we doing about that? We have onboarded one new loan provider we are -- that has materially lower rates than our existing base.

我們認為這在很大程度上是由全年的各種影響推動的，包括利率上漲、經銷商費用、貸款產品的變化以及隨之而來的所有通脹壓力。所以我們在第四季度確實感受到了一些壓力並進入第一季度初。那麼我們在做什麼呢？我們已經加入了一個新的貸款提供者——它的利率大大低於我們現有的基礎。

And then we are also, at the same time, looking at and we'll be onboarding several new PPA options as well. And we're seeing that growth. And I think those changes and those tweaks that we're making in the business are starting to help originations in in late February and March, and we're seeing a recovery there.

然後我們也在同時關注並加入幾個新的 PPA 選項。我們正在看到這種增長。我認為我們在業務中所做的這些改變和調整開始幫助 2 月下旬和 3 月的起源，我們在那裡看到了復甦。

Okay. That's helpful. And then you have Gaylon and or you can talk about how -- the way that weather or seasonality and the weather impacts originations, if it's -- because again, it's pretty straightforward like it's easy to understand if you're climbing up on a roof and doing an installation, that's a lot harder to do if the weather is not favorable.

好的。這很有幫助。然後你有 Gaylon 和/或你可以談論如何 - 天氣或季節性以及天氣影響起源的方式，如果它是 - 因為再次，它非常簡單，就像你爬上屋頂一樣容易理解並進行安裝，如果天氣不好，那將很難做到。

But does that also, I guess is it weather seasonality or there's just a different kind of seasonality so that these different channels, the lead originations or there's telemarketing or door knocking, I mean, is it a holidays thing or what is it that causes originations to be lower in the fourth quarter on a more normalized seasonal basis?

但那也是，我想是天氣季節性還是只是一種不同的季節性，所以這些不同的渠道，主要來源或電話營銷或敲門，我的意思是，這是假期的事情還是什麼導致了來源在更正常化的季節性基礎上，第四季度會更低嗎？

Sure. Hey, Donovan, this is Gaylon. The seasonality hits us in a number of different ways. First of all, we use almost a week in November for Thanksgiving. We lose roughly two weeks in December for the holidays. So right off the bat, you're muted originations based on that.

當然。嘿，多諾萬，我是蓋倫。季節性以多種不同的方式打擊我們。首先，我們在 11 月將近一周的時間用於感恩節。我們在 12 月失去了大約兩週的假期。因此，馬上，您就可以基於此消除起源。

And then with the weather that took place in a lot of California, and when we saw some of these effects in Q1, as we alluded to in the comments and press release, I think also it's very hard for the 70%-plus of our business that is door-knock origination for them to get somebody's attention when they knock on the door, if there's a serious weather that's going on simultaneously. So you just don't see them being able to set appointments and being able to have those appointments when the weather is so frightful, if you will.

然後隨著加利福尼亞大部分地區發生的天氣，當我們在第一季度看到其中一些影響時，正如我們在評論和新聞稿中提到的那樣，我認為這對我們 70% 以上的人來說也非常困難如果同時發生惡劣天氣，他們敲門的業務是為了在敲門時引起別人的注意。因此，如果您願意的話，您只是看不到他們能夠在天氣如此糟糕的情況下安排約會並能夠進行這些約會。

And then, of course, our business is up in essentially the United States and in Minnesota and Wisconsin. And that part of our business, really both originations and installations tail off in the winter because a lot of them don't run electricity for heat. So it's a lower time of the year for electrical costs. And then the same thing, it's just difficult for people to knock on doors and get people's attention when there's other things going on.

然後，當然，我們的業務主要在美國以及明尼蘇達州和威斯康星州。而我們業務的這一部分，實際上是起源和安裝在冬天都會停止，因為其中很多都不用電來取暖。因此，這是一年中電力成本較低的時間。然後同樣的事情，當有其他事情發生時，人們很難敲門並引起人們的注意。

Okay. Well, as a Los Angeles resident, I will -- even though I sounded a bit confused, I will also readily admit that I know that when it rains, everyone in California panics, and we all just hunkered down. I think it's raining today. And yes, I get it, at least that part. It does make sense that we just don't like rain and traffic which we have.

好的。好吧，作為洛杉磯居民，我會——儘管我聽起來有點困惑，但我也會欣然承認，我知道下雨時，加利福尼亞的每個人都會恐慌，我們都只是蹲下來。我想今天下雨了。是的，我明白了，至少那部分是這樣。我們只是不喜歡我們所擁有的下雨和交通，這確實是有道理的。

We haven't seen anything. Our telesales group is holding great and making sales, and we haven't really seen much of a change in origination there other than -- what Jason was talking about with regards to inflation. There's still a bit of a sentiment out there that if I had bought this a year ago, it would have been a lot cheaper. And people are just adjusting to the new reality that it's not going to be cheaper and get them for a while.

我們什麼都沒看到。我們的電話銷售團隊保持良好狀態並進行銷售，除了傑森所說的通貨膨脹之外，我們還沒有真正看到那裡的起源有太大變化。仍然有一種觀點認為，如果我在一年前購買它，它會便宜很多。人們只是在適應新的現實，即它不會更便宜並暫時得到它們。

We know the modules have come down and some of the loans are so much more expensive than it used to be. And leases are better, but it's still not what they were 1.5 year ago. So I think there's still some amount of consumer adjustment, there's some amount of sales channel partner adjustment. They're not able to bring in quite the conditions that were in the room before, which is to create some initial China workforce. It's kind of a perfect storm. And I listened to, and I read what's going on in the industry and it doesn't seem like this is an isolated challenge that we're going to back into that.

我們知道模塊已經下降，一些貸款比以前貴得多。租約更好，但仍然不是 1.5 年前的樣子。所以我認為仍然有一些消費者調整，有一些銷售渠道合作夥伴調整。他們無法帶來之前房間裡的條件，即創造一些最初的中國勞動力。這是一場完美的風暴。我聽了，也讀了這個行業正在發生的事情，這似乎不是我們要重新解決的孤立挑戰。

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay. Well, I'll get back in the queue, I guess. Or Operator, if there is anyone else, otherwise, I could ask another question, but Operator, is there anyone else in the queue?

是的，是的，絕對是。好的。好吧，我想我會回到隊列中。或者接線員，如果還有其他人，否則我可以問另一個問題，但是接線員，隊列中還有其他人嗎？

Yes, there is.

就在這裡。

Okay. Yes, I will jump back in line. Thank you, guys.

好的。是的，我會重新排隊。感謝你們。

Philip Shen, ROTH Capital Partners.

Philip Shen，ROTH Capital Partners。

Yes, thanks for taking my questions. I had a follow up on the originations theme, you guys talked about some recovery thus far this year. And I think, Jason, you were just talking about the new loan provider and the onboarding of new PP options as a reason. I was wondering if you could quantify the recovery thus far. So on your slide deck here, you see this drop-off in Q4. And then we were writing about the recovery in January and February as well. And I want to get a sense from you what the magnitude of that recovery is. And if you could kind of split it up between California recovery or growth versus on non-California? Thanks.

是的，謝謝你回答我的問題。我對起源主題進行了跟進，你們談到了今年迄今為止的一些復甦。而且我認為，傑森，你只是在談論新的貸款提供者和新的 PP 選項的加入是一個原因。我想知道您是否可以量化迄今為止的複蘇情況。所以在你的幻燈片上，你會看到第四季度的下降。然後我們也在寫一月和二月的複蘇。我想從你們那裡了解這種複甦的幅度有多大。如果您可以將其分為加州復甦或增長與非加州地區？謝謝。

Let's break the quarter into -- and it's still playing out, but we'll break it into two portions of the quarter. I'd say the first six weeks of the quarter where it was -- it felt a lot like what the challenges that we had in November and December and that was frankly across many markets. We've been marketing pretty aggressively in California, talking about how NEM 3.0 changes the economics for some homeowners. We were expecting there to be a lift.

讓我們把這個季度分成——它還在繼續，但我們會把它分成兩個部分。我想說的是本季度的前六週——感覺很像我們在 11 月和 12 月遇到的挑戰，坦率地說，這在許多市場都是如此。我們一直在加利福尼亞州進行非常積極的營銷，談論 NEM 3.0 如何改變一些房主的經濟狀況。我們期待有電梯。

And that really did start to play out until the second half of the quarter here. The second half of the quarter, the originations just in general terms are much closer to what we're seeing, what we saw in Q3. Now we have a few more weeks to go, but we have felt encouraged on some of the changes that we're seeing in the business in originations.

直到本季度後半段，這種情況才真正開始發揮作用。本季度的下半部分，一般而言，起源更接近我們在第三季度看到的情況。現在我們還有幾週的時間，但我們對我們在起源業務中看到的一些變化感到鼓舞。

At the same time, we are -- one of our strategies is we have an excellent direct sales force of over 600 people that are very, very well connected in the industry and what they are actually -- they're actually promoting Solcius on a broader level to dealers as well to come on to their organization, and we're seeing some lift from that as well. And I think that's also catapulting us into -- towards the end of Q1 feeling a lot better about the state of originations.

與此同時，我們 - 我們的戰略之一是我們擁有一支由 600 多人組成的優秀直銷團隊，他們在行業中有著非常非常好的聯繫，他們實際上是 - 他們實際上是在推廣 Solcius更廣泛的經銷商也加入了他們的組織，我們也看到了一些提升。而且我認為這也使我們進入 - 在第一季度末對起源狀態感覺好多了。

I would say California is, without giving specifics, California was 30% to 35% of our business last year off residential, and we're continuing to see originations be really, really healthy in California.

我想說加利福尼亞是，沒有給出具體細節，去年加利福尼亞有 30% 到 35% 的業務來自住宅，我們將繼續看到加利福尼亞的起源真的非常健康。

Great. Thanks, Jason. And on one of the things we were writing about was potential for -- and then three transitions that caused a huge point. So there you have strength in Q1, 2 and possibly even Q3 for the weaker first six weeks. We think it's probably less likely that we get as much strength in Q3 before a step down in California as a result of NEM 3.

偉大的。謝謝，傑森。我們正在寫的其中一件事是有潛力的——然後是三個轉變，這引起了一個重要的觀點。因此，在前六週較弱的情況下，第一季度、第二季度甚至第三季度都有實力。我們認為，在加利福尼亞州因 NEM 3 而下台之前，我們在第三季度獲得如此多的實力的可能性較小。

And so do you think -- does that kind of mesh with what you see? Do you expect that -- because the applications have to be due by April 13? And so my sense is there's going to be a rush of applications, but then that carries into Q2. Do you think there's some strength given the originations you see now that could serve Q3 volume in California so that we don't see inflation drop in Q3 but rather more in Q4, do you actually see the drop in Q3 now? Thanks.

所以你認為 - 這種情況與你所看到的相吻合嗎？您是否期望 - 因為申請必須在 4 月 13 日之前到期？所以我的感覺是會有大量的申請，但隨後會進入第二季度。考慮到你現在看到的起源可以為加利福尼亞州第三季度的銷量服務，你認為有一些力量嗎？這樣我們就不會看到第三季度的通貨膨脹率下降，而是在第四季度看到更多，你現在真的看到第三季度的下降了嗎？謝謝。

I think it's a little early to tell. So California has been strong. We're starting to starting to book out production slots or install slots into Q2. So if we continue to see the strength that we have seen over the last several weeks, I don't -- I wouldn't expect a significant drop-off in Q3. At the same time, I just want to focus on we're continuing to bring on new dealers and expand those direct sales. So we know our mindset is if California weakens in the back half of the year, we're aggressively going after other markets that solar is still very economical.

我認為現在下結論還為時過早。所以加州一直很強大。我們開始預訂生產槽或將槽安裝到第二季度。因此，如果我們繼續看到過去幾週的強勁勢頭，我預計第三季度不會出現大幅下滑。與此同時，我只想關注我們將繼續引進新經銷商並擴大直銷。所以我們知道我們的心態是，如果加州在今年下半年走弱，我們將積極追趕其他市場，因為太陽能仍然非常經濟。

Right? And so that brings up the next thread, which is you've seen some strength in California. Have you seen a similar type of recovery in non-California states? We're seeing that in the conversations we're having and the data that we're seeing or accessing. But just curious if you guys are seeing the same thing and if so, on a year-over-year basis, would you expect your megawatts, for example, in resi to be flat year over year, maybe a little bit down or even slightly up?

正確的？所以這就引出了下一個話題，那就是你在加利福尼亞看到了一些力量。您是否在非加利福尼亞州看到過類似類型的複蘇？我們在我們正在進行的對話以及我們正在查看或訪問的數據中看到了這一點。但是很好奇你們是否看到了同樣的事情，如果是這樣，在同比的基礎上，您是否期望您的兆瓦，例如，在 resi 中同比持平，可能會略有下降甚至略有下降向上？

So I'm going to stay away from the guidance question right now, but other markets that were pretty strong in I think Texas, as you probably saw in other research that has been published, Texas was down quarter for new permits of applications. We're seeing a little bit of recovery there. We're seeing the same thing in Arizona and New Mexico, which are strong markets for us. And we're bringing on additional support and sales forces in Utah as well. So there is some strength there, so we'll see how the year plays out and until we can get a little more comfortable with giving guidance.

所以我現在要遠離指導問題，但我認為德克薩斯州的其他市場非常強勁，正如你可能在已發表的其他研究中看到的那樣，德克薩斯州的新申請許可下降了四分之一。我們在那裡看到了一點點復甦。我們在亞利桑那州和新墨西哥州看到了同樣的情況，這對我們來說是強大的市場。我們也在猶他州引入額外的支持和銷售隊伍。所以那裡有一些力量，所以我們看看這一年的結果如何，直到我們能夠更自如地提供指導。

Great. And so in terms of loan versus lease or PPA, that mix, can you share what it was in Q4 and maybe even 2022 overall? And then what your expectations are for '23, especially as you bring on some new PPA providers?

偉大的。因此，就貸款與租賃或 PPA 的組合而言，您能否分享一下第四季度乃至整個 2022 年的情況？然後您對 23 年的期望是什麼，尤其是當您引入一些新的 PPA 提供商時？

Sure. So less than 10% in 2022 was PPA. And I think we've talked about this in the past, Solcius, even prior to the acquisition, sort of moved with the market and adapted in the past. So at one point, they were nearly 100% PPA and that eventually shifted into loans. And that's -- at the acquisition that was predominantly loans, loan products. What we're seeing in Q1 so far is it's shifting to be probably up to 20% of PPAs. And again, we're bringing on more PPA products and as we do that, I'd expect us to even move closer to -- and I think we're targeting being in the 40% to 50% range by the end of the year.

當然。因此，2022 年只有不到 10% 是 PPA。而且我認為我們過去已經討論過這個問題，Solcius，甚至在收購之前，就在某種程度上隨著市場而變化，並在過去進行了調整。因此，在某一時刻，它們幾乎是 100% PPA，最終轉變為貸款。那就是——在主要是貸款、貸款產品的收購中。到目前為止，我們在第一季度看到的是它正在轉變為可能高達 PPA 的 20%。再一次，我們正在推出更多的 PPA 產品，當我們這樣做的時候，我希望我們能更接近——我認為我們的目標是到年底達到 40% 到 50% 的範圍年。

So California, it looks like with battery options, the PPA option can save money to the homeowner on day one, which is the key selling point. So given that that's 30% of our business. I might have just talk myself out of being at 40% to 50% by the end of the year. It might happen quicker than that.

所以加利福尼亞州，看起來有電池選項，PPA 選項可以在第一天為房主省錢，這是關鍵賣點。因此，鑑於這是我們業務的 30%。我可能只是說服自己在年底前不要達到 40% 到 50%。它可能比這發生得更快。

Got it. So good. So you're seeing a steady mix there and or mix shift if you will. And then I know you haven't provided guidance per se, but I was wondering if you could just give a little bit of color on maybe Q1 or Q2 and sorry if I missed it, but from a relative to what originations kind of be the best way to think about what the shape of Q1 revenue might look like to Q4 originations there.

知道了。超好的。因此，如果您願意，您會在那裡看到穩定的混音和/或混音轉換。然後我知道你本身沒有提供指導，但我想知道你是否可以給 Q1 或 Q2 一些顏色，如果我錯過了很抱歉，但是從相對的起源來說是什麼考慮 Q1 收入的形狀與 Q4 起源的最佳方式。

Of course, commercial could contribute, but typically seasonally, it's a weaker quarter. So just curious if you can give a little bit of color on revenue margins as we either get into Q1 or even through the year, you see some -- it sounds like you do see some expansion for margins, but you're talking about that revenue plus -- sorry, the gross profit less the sales and marketing.

當然，商業可能有所貢獻，但通常是季節性的，這是一個較弱的季度。所以很好奇你是否可以在我們進入第一季度甚至全年時對收入利潤率給出一點顏色，你會看到一些——聽起來你確實看到了利潤率的一些擴張，但你說的是那個收入加 - 抱歉，毛利減去銷售和營銷。

So, anyway, I'm saying a lot here but to what degree -- so if you can provide color, we would appreciate it. Thanks.

所以，無論如何，我在這裡說了很多，但要說到什麼程度——所以如果你能提供顏色，我們將不勝感激。謝謝。

Sure. But I'll cover it at a high level. So that slope that you saw for originations when you think about the timeline it takes to apply for permits, work with the jurisdictions, work with the customers to get it installed, that can be anywhere from 30 to 90 days by the time you recognize that revenue. So that downward slope that we saw in originations certainly plays out in Q1. And I think it will be further impacted by the weather events.

當然。但我會在高層次上介紹它。因此，當您考慮申請許可證、與司法管轄區合作、與客戶合作以安裝它所需的時間表時，您看到的起源斜率在您認識到時可能需要 30 到 90 天收入。因此，我們在起源中看到的下降趨勢肯定會在第一季度發揮作用。我認為它將進一步受到天氣事件的影響。

I mean, we talk about install slots and we lost a higher percentage of install slots than we traditionally have in the past, in January and February. So that certainly impacted us. That was really in Texas, it was Colorado, in California as well. So we had pretty severe impacts. So as I look at the year, we would like to see Q1 be the low point and we build off of that.

我的意思是，我們談論的是安裝槽位，我們在 1 月和 2 月損失的安裝槽位百分比比過去傳統上高。所以這肯定影響了我們。那真的是在得克薩斯州，在科羅拉多州，在加利福尼亞州也是如此。所以我們產生了相當嚴重的影響。因此，當我回顧這一年時，我們希望看到第一季度是最低點，我們以此為基礎。

So with the lower revenue levels, we'll likely lead to some margin pressures in Q1, and then we'd look for that to expand throughout the year as volume improves and as we have more direct revenue, direct sales revenue as well. And then in our commercial business, the pipeline -- I see the backlog is we have about $33 million in our backlog today.

因此，由於收入水平較低，我們可能會在第一季度導致一些利潤率壓力，然後我們希望隨著銷量的增加以及我們有更多的直接收入和直接銷售收入而在全年擴大。然後在我們的商業業務中，管道——我看到積壓是我們今天有大約 3300 萬美元的積壓。

We'd expect our backlog to grow in Q1 based on recent order activity and conversations with customers. So we're anticipating revenue growth throughout the year in our commercial business. But again, Q1 is going to be a little light because again, revenue was impacted, and delivery dates were impacted by the weather in California.

根據最近的訂單活動和與客戶的對話，我們預計我們的積壓訂單將在第一季度增加。因此，我們預計我們的商業業務全年收入都會增長。但同樣，第一季度會有點輕鬆，因為收入再次受到影響，交貨日期受到加利福尼亞天氣的影響。

Great. That's very helpful color. Thanks for taking all the questions and I'll pass it on.

偉大的。這是非常有用的顏色。感謝您提出所有問題，我會把它傳遞下去。

Tim Moore, EF Hutton.

蒂姆·摩爾，EF 赫頓。

Thanks. Congratulations on the impressive beat for sales growth. It was nice to see the step-up in growth. On the commercial side, and just actually one of my questions, historically the commercial gross margin's a lot lower than residential. Did that help explain some of the gross margin difference in the quarter, besides labor and the weather is a mix effect?

謝謝。祝賀銷售增長令人印象深刻。很高興看到增長加快。在商業方面，實際上也是我的一個問題，從歷史上看，商業毛利率遠低於住宅。這是否有助於解釋本季度的一些毛利率差異，除了勞動力和天氣是混合效應？

We had -- excellent point. Gross margin in the residential segment is 47% during the quarter and the commercial business, it's significantly less than that. So the variations that you see in revenue between quarters in each of the segments really will drive our consolidated margin.

我們有 - 很好的觀點。本季度住宅業務的毛利率為 47%，商業業務的毛利率遠低於此。因此，您在每個細分市場的季度之間看到的收入變化確實會推動我們的綜合利潤率。

That makes sense. And I know that Donovan was trying to maybe -- yes, this is part of his set of questions, but you just gave some color on the first quarter on weather, but I just want to make sure that the sales beat, which is pretty strong, didn't pull forward a lot from the March quarter given the backlog came down and originations were a little bit soft because of the door-to-door knocking.

這就說得通了。而且我知道 Donovan 正在嘗試 - 是的，這是他的一系列問題的一部分，但你只是在第一季度給出了一些關於天氣的顏色，但我只是想確保銷售超過，這非常好強勁，由於積壓減少，並且由於挨家挨戶的敲門聲，起源有點軟，因此從 3 月季度開始並沒有取得太大進展。

So I was just wondering, were there any kind of big commercial orders or potential orders that might have gotten down at the end of the quarter that you talked you're probably into January?

所以我只是想知道，是否有任何類型的大商業訂單或潛在訂單可能會在您所說的可能進入 1 月份的季度末下降？

The answer -- the short answer is no. We had some pull forward in our commercial business of some revenue being completed earlier, but we're talking $1 million to $1.5 million pull forward, but nothing significant for the financials.

答案——簡短的回答是否定的。我們的商業業務有一些提前完成的部分收入，但我們說的是 100 萬到 150 萬美元的提前，但對財務狀況來說並不重要。

Okay. That's helpful to hear. And I know that you gave a comment earlier on this in your opening remarks, which is nice to hear the direct sales team and residential getting eventually to a run rate maybe of half the sales. Just to clarify, was that the goal maybe an exit run rate for December at the end of this year? Was that more of a 2024 goal, the 50%?

好的。聽了很有幫助我知道你在開場白中早些時候就此發表了評論，很高興聽到直銷團隊和住宅最終的運行率可能是銷售額的一半。澄清一下，目標是否可能是今年年底 12 月的退出運行率？這是否更像是 2024 年的目標，即 50%？

Our goal is to be at 50% when we finish Q2, and it may happen earlier than that. But again, we're thinking about this from a perspective of we want to build all sales channels. We see value there in growth, but we want to make sure the economics of the various deals make sense for both the sales channel and for us. So we will continue to negotiate and go down both paths. But again, we do like the direct sales part of the organization, and we have some more control over the sales process and all the benefits that come with that. So that's why we keep talking about why it's so important to Sunworks.

我們的目標是在第二季度結束時達到 50%，而且可能會早於此。但同樣，我們是從我們想要建立所有銷售渠道的角度來考慮這個問題的。我們看到了增長的價值，但我們希望確保各種交易的經濟性對銷售渠道和我們都有意義。因此，我們將繼續談判並沿著兩條路走下去。但同樣，我們確實喜歡組織的直銷部分，我們對銷售流程以及隨之而來的所有好處有更多的控制權。所以這就是為什麼我們一直在談論為什麼它對 Sunworks 如此重要。

Good. I just had a related question to that. Obviously, it's a lower customer acquisition costs and higher and contribution margin from the direct side. But are you seeing your direct sales team as they've ramped up on productivity, are they triggering more system upgrades or insurance products or any other type of ancillary products over the last couple of months?

好的。我只是有一個相關的問題。顯然，這是更低的客戶獲取成本和更高的直接邊際貢獻率。但是您是否看到您的直銷團隊在過去幾個月中提高了生產力，他們是否觸發了更多的系統升級或保險產品或任何其他類型的輔助產品？

So we will call them adders and those adders could be the -- it could be a battery being added or EV or an insurance product like you mentioned. And we do see that. And we do see a higher attachment rate on those specific adders which -- just because I think there -- it's just a different sales process and they're working through how do we optimize every sale that we have with the homeowner and provide the best service at the same time.

所以我們將它們稱為加法器，這些加法器可能是 - 它可能是添加的電池或電動汽車或您提到的保險產品。我們確實看到了。我們確實看到那些特定加法器的附加率更高——只是因為我認為那裡——這只是一個不同的銷售過程，他們正在研究如何優化我們與房主的每一次銷售並提供最好的同時服務。

And then, I know you alluded to this earlier on and one of your comments was it sounds like the cross selling's starting with the power storage systems and EV charging stations, residential, are you starting to see inroads for commercial customers for those type of products already?

然後，我知道你之前提到過這個，你的評論之一是聽起來交叉銷售是從電力存儲系統和 EV 充電站開始的，住宅，你是否開始看到商業客戶對這些類型產品的入侵已經？

Yes, we absolutely are. We hired a Business Director -- Business Development Director in the middle of last year, solely focused on fleet and commercial EV charging. And we are now appending to or adding to virtually every proposal that they send out the option for EV charger. And where it makes sense for our customer, we do offer enhanced dollar number on energy storage solutions in the commercials.

是的，我們絕對是。我們在去年年中聘請了一位業務總監——業務發展總監，專注於車隊和商用電動汽車充電。我們現在正在附加或添加他們發出的 EV 充電器選項的幾乎所有提案。在對我們的客戶有意義的地方，我們確實會在廣告中提供更高的儲能解決方案美元數。

That's great to hear. And my last question, if I recall, I don't remember was sometime last year you added an internal Chief Legal Officer for local permitting oversight. How is that panning out? And do you think that will give you more speed in these other markets that you're talking about we are seeing in Arizona and New Mexico and some other good growth expansion opportunities?

聽到這個消息我很高興。我的最後一個問題，如果我記得的話，我不記得去年的某個時候你增加了一名內部首席法律官來監督當地的許可。效果如何？你認為這會給你在亞利桑那州和新墨西哥州看到的這些其他市場帶來更快的速度以及其他一些良好的增長擴張機會嗎？

I will say that the CLO hire that we made is one of the best hires I have made at this company. So he's tireless and his team has improved and increased our professionalism and timeliness and everything that we're doing that they touch. So a really just -- I'm waiting for the endorsement for that leader and his group.

我會說，我們招聘的 CLO 是我在這家公司招聘的最好的員工之一。所以他不知疲倦，他的團隊改進並提高了我們的專業性和及時性，以及我們正在做的一切他們接觸到的事情。所以真的很公正——我正在等待那個領導者和他的團隊的認可。

And I must say that they are not only addressing the permitting and licensing challenges and things like that. But also in those instances where a customer decides he or she may not want to continue the customer journey to installation, and they get involved in there. There are many times they would convince the customer to continue makes sense. So they're touching more areas of the value stream than I had expected and they're doing a great job.

我必須說，他們不僅在解決許可和許可方面的挑戰以及類似問題。但在客戶決定他或她可能不想繼續客戶安裝之旅的情況下，他們也會參與其中。有很多次他們會說服客戶繼續這樣做是有道理的。因此，他們觸及的價值流領域比我預期的要多，而且他們做得很好。

Terrific. Well, thanks, Gaylon and Jason, for answering those questions, and that's it from my questions.

了不起。好吧，謝謝 Gaylon 和 Jason 回答了這些問題，我的問題就是這些。

Donovan Schafer, Northland Capital Markets

Donovan Schafer，北國資本市場

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my follow-up questions. I know I can get a bit greedy on asking questions, but if the opportunity's there, I'll take it. So I wanted to ask for C and I gross margins. You mentioned that there was a mix impact on C and I gross margins in the quarter -- in the fourth quarter. And so I'm just curious, what is it from a mix standpoint? Is it certain types of projects like maybe EV charging versus solar versus storage? Or is the size? Is it disproportionately larger projects versus disproportionately smaller ones you get? What is -- how do you divide? What is your different buckets there where you had a higher mix of it in the fourth quarter?

大家好。感謝您回答我的後續問題。我知道我問問題會有點貪心，但如果有機會，我會抓住的。所以我想問C和我的毛利率。你提到第四季度對 C 和 I 毛利率的影響是混合的。所以我很好奇，從混合的角度來看它是什麼？是某些類型的項目，比如電動汽車充電、太陽能和儲能？或者是大小？它是不成比例的大項目還是不成比例的小項目？什麼是——你如何劃分？你在第四季度有更高組合的不同桶是什麼？

Yes. So the couple of things there. The one public works projects are -- competitive is the wrong word, but they tend to be larger, and they tend to as in correlation and with most construction projects, the bigger they get, the lower the margin percentage. So the public works group had a significant contribution, as Jason mentioned, to the Q4 revenue and that contribution comes at a slightly lower margin.

是的。所以那裡有兩件事。一個公共工程項目是——競爭是錯誤的詞，但它們往往更大，而且它們往往與大多數建築項目相關，它們越大，利潤率就越低。因此，正如傑森提到的那樣，公共工程集團對第四季度的收入做出了重大貢獻，而這一貢獻的利潤率略低。

But what also is important is the timing. So we don't necessarily recognize a full profitability on every milestone and the commercial construction project, it's pretty typical in construction to take most of the margin at the end. And really just to have your revenue recognition will be very closely related to costs as your milestones along on the way, unlike residential where we take the entire revenue at the end. In the commercial project, we usually the two between five and nine discrete milestones and really the only margin flow through as the last couple of milestones.

但同樣重要的是時機。因此，我們不一定在每個里程碑和商業建設項目中都認識到完全盈利，在建設中很典型的是在最後獲得大部分利潤。真正讓你的收入確認將與成本密切相關，因為你在路上的里程碑，不像我們在最後獲得全部收入的住宅。在商業項目中，我們通常將兩個 5 到 9 個獨立的里程碑作為最後幾個里程碑，實際上是唯一的利潤流。

Yes. Okay. That's really helpful. And then so for the C and I backlog at year end 2021, you had $18 million in C and I backlog. And then you did, I think, $21 million in C and I revenue in 2022. So now you have $32 million in backlog at the end of this year. And so I'm wondering, do you expect all of that to fall -- all of that C and I backlog to become revenue in 2023.

是的。好的。這真的很有幫助。然後，對於 2021 年底的 C 和 I 積壓，您有 1800 萬美元的 C 和 I 積壓。然後你做到了，我想，2022 年 C 和 I 的收入為 2100 萬美元。所以現在你在今年年底有 3200 萬美元的積壓訂單。所以我想知道，你是否預計所有這些都會下降——所有 C 和我積壓的工作都會在 2023 年變成收入。

Or maybe even something that you might end up somewhere north of that, just because that would be the best revenue year in C and I for you guys since 2019, I think before Gaylon, you know, and that came down a bit because you're trying to rework the process and make sure that it was profitable but it gets us back to those higher revenue levels. So it just be great to get a handle on whether that $32 million is a good sort of floor for 2023? Or is there actually maybe as a chunk for 2024 so it doesn't -- so we can't really make that type of difference.

或者甚至可能是你最終可能會在那個北方的某個地方結束的事情，只是因為那將是 C 和我自 2019 年以來對你們來說最好的收入年，我想在 Gaylon 之前，你知道，這有點下降是因為你'我們正在嘗試重新設計流程並確保它是有利可圖的，但它會讓我們回到更高的收入水平。因此，很高興能夠了解這 3200 萬美元是否是 2023 年的一個很好的底線？或者實際上可能是 2024 年的一部分，所以它沒有——所以我們不能真正做出那種改變。

So yes, we have $33 million of backlog at 12/31. I did mention that we're going to just see a backlog increase when we report our Q1 numbers in early May, and we -- most of that revenue there will be some bleed over into 2024. But at the same time, we're also working through on negotiating and finalizing contracts that could be supportive of additional 2023 revenue. So we are -- while we're cautious, we do see that there could be some upside throughout the year.

所以是的，我們在 12/31 有 3300 萬美元的積壓訂單。我確實提到過，當我們在 5 月初報告第一季度的數據時，我們只會看到積壓增加，而且我們——大部分收入都會流到 2024 年。但與此同時，我們還致力於談判和敲定可能支持 2023 年額外收入的合同。所以我們 - 雖然我們持謹慎態度，但我們確實看到全年可能會有一些上行空間。

But again, we need to execute -- executing contracts and the sales organization's executing. So we really are pushing this business to be in excess of $50 million of revenue on an annual basis, or at least on a run-rate basis that once we're in that $50 million to $60 million range, we're starting to think about being positive EBITDA as a segment.

但同樣，我們需要執行——執行合同和銷售組織的執行。所以我們確實在推動這項業務的年收入超過 5000 萬美元，或者至少在運行率的基礎上，一旦我們達到 5000 萬到 6000 萬美元的範圍，我們就開始考慮關於將 EBITDA 作為一個細分市場是積極的。

Okay. Okay. Fantastic guys, and thank you, guys. really appreciate taking all the questions and I'll take any of the other ones offline. Have a good one.

好的。好的。很棒的傢伙，謝謝你們。非常感謝回答所有問題，我會將其他任何問題離線處理。祝你有個好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝。

There are no further questions in the queue. I'd like to hand the call back to management for closing remarks.

隊列中沒有其他問題。我想將電話轉回管理層以作結束語。

So once again, thank you, everybody, for joining our call. Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact us at ir@sunworksusa.com, and a member of our team will follow up with you. This concludes our call for today and you may now disconnect. And again, thank you.

因此，再次感謝大家加入我們的電話會議。如果您有任何疑問，請隨時通過 ir@sunworksusa.com 與我們聯繫，我們的團隊成員將與您聯繫。我們今天的電話會議到此結束，您現在可以斷開連接。再一次，謝謝你。

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's teleconference. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time and have a wonderful day.

女士們，先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。此時您可以斷開線路並度過美好的一天。