Sunation Energy Inc (SUNE) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello and thank you for standing by. My name is Bella, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to Sunation Energy third quarter 2025 financial results conference call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to David Sullivan, managing director of Equity Group. You may begin.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。我叫貝拉，今天我將擔任你們的會議接線生。在此，我謹代表 Sunation Energy 向各位歡迎參加 2025 年第三季財務業績電話會議。（操作員指示）現在我將把會議交給 Equity Group 的董事總經理 David Sullivan。你可以開始了。

Thank you, Bella.

謝謝你，貝拉。

Thank you everyone for joining us today for Sunation's 2025 3rd quarter financial results conference call. Our speakers for today are Scott Maskin, Chief Executive Officer, and James Brennan, Chief Financial Officer. Mr. Maskin will open with prepared remarks followed by a question-and-answer session.

感謝各位今天參加Sunation 2025年第三季財務業績電話會議。今天的演講嘉賓是執行長斯科特·馬斯金和首席財務官詹姆斯·布倫南。馬斯金先生將首先發表準備好的講話，然後進行問答環節。

Before we get started, I'd like to remind everyone that prospects at Sunation Energy are subject to uncertainties and risks. Remarks on today's call may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1,995, Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1,933, and Section 21E of the Securities Act of 1,934. The company intends that such forward-looking statements be subject to the safe harbor provisions provided by the foregoing sections. These forward-looking statements are based largely on the expectations or forecasts of future events, can be affected by inaccurate assumptions, and are subject to various business risks and known and unknown uncertainties, a number of which are beyond the control of management.

在正式開始之前，我想提醒大家，Sunation Energy 的投資前景存在不確定性和風險。今天的電話會議中的發言可能包含 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》、1933 年《證券法》第 27A 條和 1934 年《證券法》第 21E 條所指的前瞻性陳述。本公司希望此類前瞻性聲明受到前述章節所規定的安全港條款的約束。這些前瞻性陳述主要基於對未來事件的預期或預測，可能受到不準確假設的影響，並受到各種商業風險以及已知和未知不確定性的影響，其中許多風險和不確定性超出了管理層的控制範圍。

Therefore, actual results could differ materially from the forward-looking statements contained during this call. The company cannot predict or determine after the fact what factors would cause actual results to differ materially from those indicated by the forward-looking statements or other statements. Participants should consider statements that includes that include the words believes, expects, anticipates, intends, estimates, plans, projects, should, or other expressions that are predictions of or indicate future events or trends to be uncertain and forward-looking. We caution investors not to place undue reliance upon any such forward-looking statements. The Company does not undertake to publicly update or revise forward-looking statements, whether because of new information, future events, or otherwise. Additional information respecting factors that could materially affect the company and its operations are contained in the company's filings with the SEC, including its Form 10-K and in subsequent filings, which can be found on the SEC's website at www.sec.gov.

因此，實際結果可能與本次電話會議中所述的前瞻性陳述有重大差異。本公司無法預測或事後確定哪些因素會導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述或其他陳述所指出的結果有重大差異。參與者應將包含「相信」、「預期」、「預期」、「打算」、「估計」、「計劃」、「預測」、「應該」等詞語，或對未來事件或趨勢做出預測或指示的其他表達方式的陳述視為不確定且具有前瞻性的陳述。我們提醒投資者不要過度依賴任何此類前瞻性陳述。本公司不承諾公開更新或修改前瞻性聲明，無論是因為出現新資訊、未來事件或其他原因。有關可能對公司及其運營產生重大影響的因素的更多信息，請參閱公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括其 10-K 表格和後續文件，這些文件可在美國證券交易委員會網站 www.sec.gov 上找到。

With that, I'd now like to turn the call over to Scott Maskin, CEO of Sunation Energy. Scott, please go ahead.

接下來，我想把電話交給 Sunation Energy 的執行長 Scott Maskin。斯科特，請繼續。

Thank you, Devin, and good morning, everybody. Happy Monday.

謝謝你，德文，大家早安。星期一快樂。

Thank you all for joining me today. This is a call that I've truly been looking forward to for quite some time. Since Jim and I took the helm of Sunation about 18 months ago, it's felt at times like steering through unpredictable conditions, keeping steady, staying focused, and making sure everyone on the team understood where we were headed and why. Now, I won't tell you things have calmed down. They absolutely have not. As we look ahead to 2026, there's still a lot of movement in the industry and uncertainty. But the difference is that we're no longer reacting, we're leading. We've got structure, direction, and a team that's completely aligned on the mission.

感謝各位今天蒞臨。我真的非常期待這通通話很久了。自從我和吉姆大約 18 個月前接管 Sunation 以來，我們有時感覺就像在不可預測的條件下掌舵，保持穩定，保持專注，並確保團隊中的每個人都明白我們的方向和原因。現在，我不會告訴你事情已經平靜下來了。他們絕對沒有。展望2026年，業界仍存在諸多變動與不確定性。但不同之處在於，我們不再是被動應對，而是主動引領。我們有了組織架構、方向，以及一支完全朝著共同使命努力的團隊。

And this quarter represents a turning point. For the first time in a long while, our results, our work reflect the impact of our hard work, the discipline, and the cultural rebuilding that's taking place inside this organization. If I had to sum up Q3 in one phrase, it's this. We delivered it on our promises. Sales rose, costs came down, margins improved, and profitability strengthened. Our capital structure is squeaky clean, and our balance sheet is the strongest it's been in years. That didn't happen by chance. It took tough calls, long hours, and people who refused to give up. But it proves what happens when we stay focused and we execute. While many in our industry have struggled to find direction, Sunation has moved forward stronger, leaner, and ready for what's next.

本季度標誌著一個轉折點。時隔許久，我們的成果和工作終於體現了我們辛勤工作、嚴明紀律以及組織內部正在進行的文化重建所帶來的影響。如果非要用一句話來概括第三季度，那就是這句話。我們履行了承諾。銷售額上升，成本下降，利潤率提高，獲利能力增強。我們的資本結構非常乾淨，資產負債表也是多年來最強勁的。這並非偶然。這需要做出艱難的決定，投入大量時間，並且需要人們永不放棄。但這證明了當我們保持專注並執行到位時會發生什麼。當業內許多企業還在努力尋找發展方向時，Sunation 已經變得更加強大、精簡，並為下一個挑戰做好了準備。

Those of us who've been in solar for a while know the ride never really smooths out. The one big beautiful bill and the upcoming sunset of Section 25D have created new challenges and new opportunities. And our team is handled both with focus and professionalism.

我們這些在太陽能產業待了一段時間的人都知道，這條路從來都不是一帆風順的。一項龐大而美好的法案以及即將失效的第 25D 條款帶來了新的挑戰和新的機會。我們的團隊管理既專注又專業。

The rush to complete residential installations before the end of 2025 has been intense. And our teams in New York and Hawaii have been extraordinary and really stepped up to the plate.

在2025年底前完成住宅安裝工程的競爭非常激烈。我們在紐約和夏威夷的團隊表現非常出色，並且真正挺身而出。

These are two of the most expensive energy markets in the country, and our people have helped homeowners take control of both their power and their costs. Residential sales in those markets were up 54% year over year in Q3. I want to say that again. Residential sales in those markets were up 54% year over the year in Q3. And we expect that momentum to continue right through the year end.

這是全國能源價格最高的兩個地區，我們的員工幫助房主掌控了他們的電力供應和能源成本。第三季度，這些市場的住宅銷售額年增 54%。我想再說一次。第三季度，這些市場的住宅銷售額年增 54%。我們預計這一勢頭將持續到年底。

At the same time, we're not focused on this surge. We're preparing for what comes after. We've been developing new financing options and lease to own programs that will carry us, not just in 2026, but far beyond. Tried and true approaches that have been part of Sunation's success story for more than two decades. On the commercial side, we're continuing to see steady demand from institutions and municipalities across Long Island and downstate New York. High energy costs and the longer runway for federal tax credits have supported a solid project pipeline, and we're executing efficiently. Our advantage continues to be our diversification in our people, our markets, and our services. And it's what gives us balance and stability moving forward.

同時，我們並沒有將重點放在這波激增上。我們正在為接下來的事情做準備。我們一直在開發新的融資方案和租賃購買計劃，這些方案不僅能幫助我們度過 2026 年，還能讓我們在未來很長一段時間內保持發展。二十多年來，這些行之有效的方法一直是 Sunation 成功故事的一部分。在商業方面，我們持續看到來自長島和紐約州南部各地的機構和市政當局的穩定需求。高昂的能源成本和較長的聯邦稅收抵免期限為穩定的專案儲備提供了支持，我們正在有效地執行這些專案。我們的優勢依然在於我們的人員、市場和服務的多元化。而這正是我們前進的平衡與穩定所在。

We stand unique by offering residential solar and storage, commercial solar, roofing, and our ever-growing expanding service division. We intend to expand into the energy efficient A3AC market and stand-alone roofing while we double down on our service and O&M side, helping both our long-term customers and those left without support when their original installers disappeared.

我們以住宅太陽能和儲能、商業太陽能、屋頂以及不斷發展壯大的服務部門而獨樹一幟。我們計劃拓展節能型 A3AC 市場和獨立式屋頂業務，同時加倍投入服務和營運維護方面，幫助我們的長期客戶以及那些因原安裝商消失而失去支援的客戶。

We're also evaluating strategic M&A opportunities that make sense, ones that bring scale, efficiency, or exposure to fast-growing sectors like AI, crypto, and data centers. These are reshaping how power is used, and we're positioning Sunation to play a meaningful role in the future.

我們也正在評估一些有意義的策略併購機會，這些機會能夠帶來規模、效率，或能夠進入人工智慧、加密貨幣和資料中心等快速成長的產業。這些變化正在重塑能源的使用方式，我們正在努力使 Sunation 在未來發揮重要作用。

Through all of this, one thing hasn't changed. We stay calm, focused, and deliberate. Running a business, much like captaining a ship, isn't about avoiding rough conditions. It's about knowing your course, trusting your crew, and making steady progress no matter what's ahead.

經歷了這一切，有一件事始終沒有改變。我們保持冷靜、專注和深思熟慮。經營企業就像掌舵一艘船，關鍵不在於避免惡劣的天氣條件。關鍵在於了解你的航向，信任你的船員，無論前方有什麼困難都要穩步前進。

Every day I'm driven by 3 things our team who show up with great purpose, our customers who trust us to deliver on the promise of solar, and of course, our shareholders whose patience and confidence we're determined to reward. Sunation is strong, stronger than it's been in a long time. We understand the challenges ahead, but we also see tremendous opportunity in front of us. We built a company that can adapt, grow, and lead through whatever comes next. And I'll close with this.

每天激勵我的是三件事：我們充滿使命感的團隊、信任我們能夠兌現太陽能承諾的客戶，當然還有我們的股東，我們決心回報他們的耐心和信任。太陽活動非常強勁，比以往任何時候都更強勁。我們明白未來面臨的挑戰，但也看到了擺在我們面前的巨大機會。我們打造了一家能夠適應未來挑戰、不斷成長並引領潮流的公司。最後，我想補充一點。

God willing, the market will begin to acknowledge and reward our efforts, our resilience, and the results that this incredible team has delivered for you in Q3.

如果上帝保佑，市場將開始認可並獎勵我們的努力、韌性和這支傑出的團隊在第三季為您帶來的成果。

Thank you all for your time and trust and your continued confidence in Sunation. With that, I'll turn it over to our COO, CFO, and my steady co-captain, Jim Brennan, who'll take us through the numbers. Jim.

感謝各位抽出寶貴時間，感謝你們的信任和對Sunation的一貫支持。接下來，我將把麥克風交給我們的營運長、財務長以及我的得力搭檔吉姆·布倫南，他將為我們講解相關數據。吉姆。

Thank you, Scott, and good morning, everyone. I appreciate you joining us today and especially those on the West coast that are joining us at 6:00 AM. We are joined today by Kristin Hlavka, Sunation's Chief Accounting Officer and corporate treasurer, as well as Ms. Summer, Sunation's corporate Controller. We filed our 10Q on November 7th and issued our earnings release on Monday, November 10th. As we reflect on our performance for the 3rd quarter, I am pleased to report that the actions that we have taken have delivered significant improvements throughout the business, as we promised. We ended the 3rd quarter in the strongest financial position in recent history.

謝謝你，斯科特，大家早安。感謝各位今天收看我們的節目，尤其感謝西海岸的各位早上 6 點收看。今天我們邀請到了 Sunation 的首席會計官兼公司財務主管 Kristin Hlavka，以及 Sunation 的公司財務總監 Summer 女士。我們於 11 月 7 日提交了 10-Q 表格，並於 11 月 10 日星期一發布了收益報告。回顧第三季業績，我很高興地報告，正如我們承諾的那樣，我們採取的措施已在整個業務方面帶來了顯著的改善。第三季末，我們的財務狀況達到了近年來的最佳水準。

Through in-depth planning, disciplined execution, and sharp focus on operational efficiencies by the regional leadership teams in both New York and Hawaii, we strengthened our balance sheet, expanded our margins, and improved profitability.

透過紐約和夏威夷區域領導團隊的深入規劃、嚴格執行和對營運效率的高度重視，我們加強了資產負債表，擴大了利潤率，提高了獲利能力。

These much improved results are a direct outcome of the hard work of the entire team and a commitment to deliver value to our shareholders in the midst of a rapidly evolving market environment.

這些顯著改善的績效是整個團隊辛勤工作的直接成果，也是我們在快速變化的市場環境中致力於為股東創造價值的承諾。

We are on track to report strong results in the current 4th quarter and have reiterated our 2025 full year financial guidance for higher total sales and a return to positive adjusted EBITDA as compared to full year 2020.

我們預計在當前第四季度取得強勁的業績，並重申了我們對 2025 年全年財務的預期，即總銷售額將高於 2020 年全年，並且調整後 EBITDA 將恢復為正值。

Onto the review of our Q3 2025 results, total Q3 sales rose by 29% to $19 million from $14.7 million last year.

接下來回顧我們 2025 年第三季的業績，第三季總銷售額成長了 29%，從去年的 1,470 萬美元增加到 1,900 萬美元。

Sales at Sunation in New York and Hawaii rose by 22% and 47% respectively, with residential sales rising 54% and service sales increasing by 72%. This was driven by an accelerated pace of system installations prior to the expiration of the federal tax credits on December 31, 2025.

Sunation 在紐約和夏威夷的銷售額分別成長了 22% 和 47%，其中住宅銷售額成長了 54%，服務銷售額成長了 72%。這是由於在聯邦稅收抵免政策於 2025 年 12 月 31 日到期之前，系統安裝速度加快。

Though commercial sales declined by $1.7 million, we expect continued stability in this sector as businesses and institutions such as churches and schools continue to take advantage of the longer runway that the one Big Beautiful bill has offered. Inherently, the commercial sector is more complex and nuanced than residential, so these projects tend to take more time to develop and install.

儘管商業銷售額下降了 170 萬美元，但我們預計該行業將繼續保持穩定，因為教會和學校等企業和機構將繼續利用「大美好法案」提供的更長的過渡期。商業領域本質上比住宅領域更加複雜和微妙，因此這些項目往往需要更多的時間來開發和安裝。

On a consolidated basis, overall kilowatts installed on residential projects increased by 52% in the third quarter of 2025. Revenue per installation increased by 25%.

2025 年第三季度，住宅項目整體裝置容量（千瓦）綜合成長了 52%。單次安裝收入成長了 25%。

Consolidated gross margin improved to $7.2 million or 38% of sales from gross margin of $5.2 million or 35.6% of sales driven by higher residential margins. Sun Sunation New York's gross margin improved to 40.7% from 37.9%, while Hawaii's gross margin increased to 32.1% from 29.5%. We continued to effectively manage costs throughout our organization while total operating expenses rose 7.5% from 6.8%. I'm sorry, $7.5 million from $6.8 million as a percentage of sales, the total operating expenses declined to 39.3% from 46.5%, and we expect the total operating expenses in 2025 to be lower than 2024.

受住宅利潤率提高的推動，綜合毛利從毛利 520 萬美元（佔銷售額的 35.6%）提高到 720 萬美元（佔銷售額的 38%）。Sun Sunation New York 的毛利率從 37.9% 提高到 40.7%，而 Hawaii 的毛利率從 29.5% 提高到 32.1%。我們繼續有效控制整個組織的成本，而總營運費用從 6.8% 增加到 7.5%。很抱歉，營運費用從 680 萬美元降至 750 萬美元，佔銷售額的百分比從 46.5% 降至 39.3%，我們預計 2025 年的營運費用將低於 2024 年。

Interest expense in the third quarter of 2025 declined to $143,000 from a whopping $812,000 last year, reflecting the continuing benefits of paying off the expense debt earlier this year.

2025 年第三季的利息支出從去年的 812,000 美元大幅下降至 143,000 美元，這反映了今年稍早償還支出債務的持續效益。

We continue to expect our annual interest expense to decline by approximately $2 million for 2025 as compared to 2024. We operated just below breakeven for the quarter with a net loss of approximately $393,000 which is a $2.9 million improvement from a net loss of $3.3 million in last year's third quarter.

我們預計，2025 年的年度利息支出將比 2024 年減少約 200 萬美元。本季我們勉強達到損益平衡點，淨虧損約 39.3 萬美元，比去年第三季淨虧損 330 萬美元減少了 290 萬美元。

Taking all of this into account, Q3 adjusted EBITDA improved to a positive $898,000 from an adjusted EBITDA loss of a million dollars in last year's third quarter.

綜合考慮所有這些因素，第三季調整後 EBITDA 獲利 89.8 萬美元，而去年第三季調整後 EBITDA 虧損 100 萬美元。

With respect to the balance sheet.

關於資產負債表。

Cash and cash equivalents rose to $5.4 million on September 30th, which is our largest or highest cash level since 2022.

截至 9 月 30 日，現金及現金等價物增至 540 萬美元，這是我們自 2022 年以來最大的現金水準。

Our total debt decreased by over $11 million falling to $7.9 million compared to $19.1 million at the end of 2024. This total debt included an earnout consideration of $1 million.

我們的總債務減少了 1,100 多萬美元，降至 790 萬美元，而 2024 年底則為 1,910 萬美元。這筆債務總額包括100萬美元的獲利支付款項。

Other areas of improvement this year through September 30th include accounts payable improved $7.3 million to from $8 million on December 31, 2024. Current liabilities improved to $19.0 million from $27.2 million on December 31, 2024. And lastly, shareholders' equity improved to $21.7 million from $8.5 million on December 31, 2024.

今年截至 9 月 30 日的其他改善領域包括應付帳款從 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 800 萬美元減少到 730 萬美元。截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，流動負債從 2,720 萬美元減少至 1,900 萬美元。最後，股東權益從 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 850 萬美元增加至 2,170 萬美元。

Based on these Q3 results, solar projects, pipeline, and general business environment, we are reiterating our guidance for 2025 as follows. Total sales are expected to rise to between $65 million and $70 million, a projected increase of 14% or 23% from total sales of $56.9 million in 2024. Adjusted EBITDA is expected to improve to between $500,000 and $700,000 from an adjusted EBITDA loss in 2024.

根據第三季業績、太陽能專案、在建專案和整體商業環境，我們重申 2025 年的業績指引如下。總銷售額將增至 6,500 萬美元至 7,000 萬美元，比 2024 年 5,690 萬美元的總銷售額增長 14% 或 23%。預計調整後 EBITDA 將從 2024 年的虧損改善至 50 萬至 70 萬美元之間。

Before turning things back to Scott, I want to again thank the entire Sunation team, both in Hawaii and New York, for their hard work and dedication. This process has not been easy. Over the past 6 months, our financial health has improved dramatically. Sales are up, costs are down, profits are higher, and our financial position is strong. It's no secret that our industry is in a state of transition and that the challenges we all face are significant, but that's okay. We are embracing these challenges as an opportunity to redefine Sunation as a whole and the value we can deliver to our shareholders. The global demand for energy is accelerating, and Sunation has over two decades of experience in delivering clean, sustainable solar energy.

在把麥克風交還給 Scott 之前，我想再次感謝 Sunation 團隊在夏威夷和紐約的全體成員，感謝他們的辛勤工作和奉獻精神。這個過程並不容易。過去6個月，我們的財務狀況有了顯著改善。銷售額上升，成本下降，利潤更高，我們的財務狀況良好。眾所周知，我們的產業正處於轉型期，我們面臨的挑戰也十分巨大，但這沒關係。我們將這些挑戰視為重新定義 Sunation 整體以及我們能夠為股東創造的價值的機會。全球能源需求正在加速成長，而 Sunation 在提供清潔、可持續的太陽能方面擁有超過二十年的經驗。

As we look ahead to 2026, we will continue to address these opportunities from a renewed and we believe sustainable position of financial strength. We are optimistic about our future and look forward to keeping you apprised of any news and progress. I want to thank you for your time and we'll now turn things back to the most handsomest guy in solar, Scott Maskin.

展望 2026 年，我們將繼續以煥然一新且我們認為可持續的財務實力來掌握這些機會。我們對未來充滿信心，並期待隨時向您通報任何最新消息和進展。感謝您抽出時間，現在讓我們把話題轉回太陽能界最帥的男人——史考特馬斯金身上。

Thanks, Jim.

謝謝你，吉姆。

Are we taking calls now, guys?

現在接電話嗎，各位？

All right, fire away.

好的，開始吧。

(Operator Instructions) Julien Dumoulin-Smith, Jefferies.

（操作說明）朱利安·杜穆蘭-史密斯，傑富瑞集團。

Hey, good morning. You have Hannah Velasquez on for Julian. Thanks for the update this quarter. I had a quick question, or rather, yeah, just an update on 25D expiration. Curious to see what you all are seeing out there in the market in terms of any pull forward effect and then also any reactions to the advent or you know I suppose the introduction of this new concept, the prepaid lease plus loan bundle. I think you alluded to it on your call, but any additional detail you can provide there in terms of if it's viable as a replacement of 25D and if you would consider pursuing it.

嘿，早安。朱利安的替補是漢娜·維拉斯奎茲。感謝您提供本季的最新資訊。我有個問題想請教一下，或者更確切地說，是關於 25D 過期時間的最新消息。很好奇大家在市場上看到了什麼，例如是否有任何提前購買效應，以及對預付租賃加貸款組合這一新概念的出現或引入有何反應。我想你在電話中已經提到過這一點，但你能不能提供一些額外的細節，例如它是否可以取代 25D，以及你是否會考慮採用它。

Sure, thanks for the time today. So, listen, 25D has certainly the sunset of that tax credit certainly has a meaningful impact, especially in markets like New York and Hawaii, with high cost of kilowatt hour. We've traditionally been loan markets. We have done some leasing, and there's been a lot of different tools that are out there. So what I would say is that we're driving to the end of the year.

當然，謝謝你今天抽出時間。所以，聽著，25D 條款的終止確實會產生重大影響，尤其是在紐約和夏威夷等電價高昂的市場。我們一直以來都是貸款市場。我們進行了一些租賃，市面上有許多不同的工具。所以我想說的是，我們正在朝著年底邁進。

Pull forward. Yeah. There's a ton of people that sat on the fence for a long time that got off the fence and they're just, I mean, there's a lot of angry elves out there that, were on the fence for too long and we just simply could not get them installed. I mean, my teams in, on, in both states are running, 6 days a week plus, to get this work done. That being said, I believe that there are some significant advances in a lot of different financing tools other than just traditional leasing and loans. So I think a lot's going to evolve as more information comes out on FY.

向前拉。是的。很多人之前一直猶豫不決，現在終於下定決心了，我的意思是，有很多憤怒的小精靈，他們猶豫了太久，我們根本無法讓他們加入進來。我的意思是，我的團隊在兩個州都每週工作 6 天以上，以完成這項工作。也就是說，我認為除了傳統的租賃和貸款之外，許多其他融資工具也取得了顯著的進展。所以我認為隨著更多財年資訊的公佈，很多事情都會改變。

I, when I look at our markets, we can still make a damn fine, financial, model for a loan and for owning it. So I don't think it's going to slow things. I think that we're in the, in a trough right now of people that rush to move forward and then when they could, they're in pause mode and then what's going to happen is we'll figure out ways. To get them back on the fence through some of these other tools. I think they're all going to be viable. I think that people that are coming out with new and unique financing options are really making sure that their I's are dotted and their T's are crossed on the tax side of it. And that's been, I, I'd say that's been a slower than they anticipated, process. Did that answer your question?

在我看來，當我們審視我們的市場時，我們仍然可以為貸款和持有貸款建立一個非常好的金融模式。所以我認為這不會減緩事情的進展。我認為我們現在正處於一個低谷期，人們急於向前邁進，但當他們有機會前進時，他們卻又停滯不前，接下來我們會找到解決辦法。透過其他一些手段讓他們重新回到觀望狀態。我認為它們都是可行的。我認為，那些推出新穎獨特的融資方案的人，確實會確保在稅務方面做到萬無一失。我認為，這個過程比他們預期的要慢。這樣回答了你的問題嗎？

Yeah, that's perfect. And then maybe just as a follow-up there, so we're hearing with 25D expiring you're having new entrances, I suppose, in the competitive market, maybe more so on the TPO side, but you can you just, double click in terms of what you're seeing out there? Are you seeing new TPOs enter trying to take advantage of this shift towards the leasing market? I know Tesla also joined the space and so just what are you seeing from a competitive perspective?

對，那就太好了。然後，也許可以作為後續問題，我們聽說隨著 25D 到期，會有新的公司進入競爭激烈的市場，我想，在 TPO 方面可能會更多，但是您能否就您目前所看到的市場情況，再詳細說說？您是否看到有新的第三方投資機構進入市場，試圖利用這種轉變為租賃市場的趨勢？我知道特斯拉也加入了這個領域，那麼從競爭角度來看，您看到了什麼？

When you mentioned the T word, never count Elon Musk out for anything. He's got the bag sheet, the sheet that he can upend this entire industry on a moment's notice. But I think that as somebody who's been involved for 20 some odd years, I have seen so many players, financial players, kind of circle and circle and, they take advantage of opportunities. Opportunities when they're there and then some get smacked down and then they reinvent themselves and they come back.

既然你提到了那個「T」字，那就永遠不要低估伊隆馬斯克。他掌握著足以顛覆整個產業的籌碼，他可以隨時做到這一點。但我認為，作為一個從業二十餘年的人，我看到很多參與者，尤其是金融參與者，兜兜轉轉，最終都抓住了機會。機會來了就抓住，有些機會被打擊，但他們會重塑自我，捲土重來。

I mean, this all boils down to capital and available capital and available tax equity, right? So, my understanding on the, in the market, raising capital in solar is difficult right now. It doesn't mean that it's non-existent, but I think that there's going to be, A little bit of a lull. People still want solar, but the players, they, some of them rename themselves, some of them, retreat and then come back. I mean, I, I'm mindful of how Sun Power, and, I'll say that, Sun Power exited, bankrupt, and now they're coming back in as a player.

我的意思是，這一切歸根結底都取決於資本、可用資本和可用稅收權益，對吧？所以，就我目前的了解，在市場上，太陽能領域籌措資金是比較困難的。這並不意味著它不存在，但我認為會有一段短暫的平靜期。人們仍然想要太陽能，但是參與者，他們中的一些人改名換姓，有些人撤退，然後又回來了。我的意思是，我注意到 Sun Power 的情況，而且，我要說的是，Sun Power 退出了市場，破產了，現在他們又重新回來了。

So, and, acquiring companies and stuff. I look at some other companies that, were in the, the LMI market that just couldn't get the capital and imploded, right? So it, it's just like a big, it's kind of a big vortex, a big circle, but ultimately, everybody comes back to the top. The same players that are involved in the space are the same players that keep rising. They may rename themselves and listen, we're going to go back again, all that needs to happen is the cost of energy continues to rise, it makes every decision even easier and more palatable.

所以，還有收購公司之類的事情。我觀察了一些其他公司，它們都處於低收入和中等收入市場，但就是無法獲得資金，最終倒閉了，對吧？所以，它就像一個巨大的漩渦，一個巨大的圓圈，但最終，每個人都會回到頂部。參與這個領域的參與者，正是那些不斷崛起的參與者。他們可能會改名換姓，聽著，我們又要回到原點了，只需要能源成本持續上漲，就能讓每個決定都變得更容易、更容易接受。

Yeah, I would add to that. I would add to that that, some of the newer tools that are becoming available based on some of the financial wizards in this market, prepaid leases, synthetic cash, you name it, there's a lot of buzzwords circulating around, but I love it.

是的，我還要補充一點。我還要補充一點，根據市場上一些金融奇才的理論，現在出現了一些新的工具，例如預付租賃、合成現金等等，各種各樣的流行語層出不窮，但我很喜歡。

As long as we have the ability to deliver to these customers, some sort of approach that works for them, even though the recent stupidity in Washington got it 100% wrong, we are pivoting to continue to survive. There are, as Scott mentioned, there are companies in the industry that won't. The reality is New York and Hawaii are not alone with expensive power. Some of the target acquisition markets that we're looking at have even more expensive power than Long Island, which is hard to believe. But, those folks are predicting higher, revenue this year than 20, next year than 2025 because their math continues to work in a purchase to own market even in the absence of the 30% federal ITC.

只要我們有能力為這些客戶提供服務，只要我們採取某種對他們有效的方法，即使華盛頓最近的愚蠢做法完全錯誤，我們也會調整策略以繼續生存下去。正如斯科特提到的那樣，業內確實有一些公司不願意這樣做。事實上，紐約和夏威夷並非唯一面臨高昂電費的地區。我們正在考察的一些目標收購市場的電力價格甚至比長島還要高，這令人難以置信。但是，這些人預測今年的收入將高於 2020 年，明年的收入將高於 2025 年，因為即使沒有 30% 的聯邦投資稅收抵免，他們的計算在購買自有市場中仍然有效。

Okay, and if I could just have one more follow-up question, on that point, maybe on a consolidated basis, how are you thinking about market growth in 2026? I mean, you hear the consultants all over the place, right, talking about a 10% decline, best case scenario and then up to a 20% to 30% decline all in just given 25% expiring and as like a secondary question there, what's the latest you're hearing on it? Thank you.

好的，如果我可以再問一個後續問題，關於這一點，或許可以從整體來看，您如何看待 2026 年的市場成長？我的意思是，你到處都能聽到顧問顧問說，最好的情況是下跌 10%，而考慮到 25% 的債券到期，下跌幅度可能高達 20% 到 30%。另外，你最近聽到的消息是什麼？謝謝。

So the first part of your question was about 2026 guidance, and I'm not prepared to give that today. We do predict a lower than normal Q1, although as I say those words, I was recently pleasantly surprised from the New York team that they've already booked nearly 100 deals for January, which was surprising given the new set of circumstances that we're dealing with. And, but by the way, that's the normal cycle of our business. Q1 and Q2 are always low in both New York and Hawaii for different reasons. And then Q3 and Q4, just like this year in 2025, Q3 and Q4 were cranking, so much so that we're having trouble keeping up with all the work. And so I suspect that a very similar model will follow in 2026 as well.

所以你問題的第一部分是關於 2026 年的指導意見，我今天還不準備給出這方面的資訊。我們預測第一季業績將低於正常水平，不過就在我這麼說的時候，紐約團隊最近給了我一個驚喜，他們已經預定了近 1 月份的訂單，考慮到我們正在應對的新情況，這著實令人驚訝。順便說一句，這是我們業務的正常週期。由於不同的原因，紐約和夏威夷的第一季和第二季收入總是很低。然後，就像今年（2025 年）一樣，第三季和第四季也異常繁忙，以至於我們很難完成所有的工作。因此，我懷疑2026年也會出現非常類似的模式。

Yeah, I just, on fifi, it's still happening, right? Every day there's a change. Every day somebody's coming out with different, securing different equipment or different ADLs and stuff like that. I don't think that anybody can securely say this is where it's going to be on January 1st because just the guidance is just, it's too fuzzy.

是的，我在Fifi上看到，這件事還在發生，對吧？每天都有變化。每天都有人推出不同的、安全的設備或不同的日常生活活動（ADL）等等。我認為沒有人能肯定地說1月1日的情況會是這樣，因為目前的指導太模糊了。

I think that we will adapt, we will find product and, cash is king also. Those with strong balance sheets are going to be able to get equipment and others are going to implode. And, I just want to touch on what Jim said, I have often, and the thesis of Sunation with, has always been, a regional company. When the analysts say 10%. Declined, 40% declined, 50%. It's really unfair because, you look at some, you look at California, who just take gut punch after gut punch, but last year, they blew it out of the door, right? Like with the exit of, 3, but North Carolina is growing, Massachusetts is growing. So it's hyper-regional markets and hyper-regional. I've always said we're very, We're exposed by utilities and state politics, so find me a state that is really pro-energy, find me a state that's going to see a growth of data centers and AI, and I'll show you, a state that is going to grow revenue base because the cost of power is going to be so high.

我認為我們會適應，我們會找到產品，而且現金為王。那些資產負債表穩健的公司將能夠獲得設備，而其他公司則會破產倒閉。我只想談談吉姆所說的，我經常提到，而且 Sunation 的理念一直都是，它是一家區域性公司。分析師說10%。下降，40%下降，50%。這真的很不公平，因為看看一些地方，例如加州，他們遭受了一連串的打擊，但去年他們卻取得了巨大的成功，對吧？就像退出一樣，3，但是北卡羅來納州正在成長，馬薩諸塞州也在成長。所以它是超區域市場和超區域市場。我一直說我們非常容易受到公用事業和州政治的影響，所以請你找出一個真正支持能源的州，找出一個資料中心和人工智慧將會蓬勃發展的州，我就會告訴你，哪個州能夠增加財政收入，因為電力成本將會非常高。

Great question.

問得好。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

At this time I would like to turn the call back over to Devin Sullivan.

現在我想把電話轉回給德文·沙利文。

Thank you, Bella. We do have a couple of questions from Sunation stakeholders that I'd like to ask on their behalf. And the first one to, the management team is, what is your long-term vision for Sunation following the passage of the One Big Beautiful Bill Act?

謝謝你，貝拉。我們有幾位Sunation利害關係人提出問題，我想代表他們提出這些問題。首先，管理團隊，在《一項偉大的美麗法案》通過後，你們對 Sunation 的長期願景是什麼？

Thanks Devin, and to whoever that shareholder is, thank you, I keep harping on the diversification of Sunation as, one of our strengths, maybe it's our greatest strength, for my shareholders and for our company. We see a rush to the end of the year. We're figuring out a lot of things for 2026 and moving forward, but we see the commercial industry really growing. We see the service industry growing. Residential is going to figure itself out. We've been through these cycles before, so I'm not too, there's a lot of confidence, sometimes, things like this are also a good gut check, you know.

謝謝德文，也謝謝那位股東，我一直強調 Sunation 的多元化是我們的優勢之一，也許是我們最大的優勢，這對我的股東和我們公司都是如此。我們看到年底前一片忙碌景象。我們正在為 2026 年及以後的發展制定許多計劃，但我們看到商業領域正在蓬勃發展。我們看到服務業正在發展壯大。住宅市場會自行解決的。我們以前也經歷過這些週期，所以我不太有信心，有時候，像這樣的事情也是一次很好的自我檢驗，你知道的。

Where can we be better? Where can we be more efficient and take advantage of that thing? And that's not just with op ed, that's not just with employees and stuff like that. I mean, over time you kind of bloat and you look at your software stack and you look at, all kinds of things that you spend money on as you're growing and growing and growing. And sometimes it's a good exercise to retool and reshape the company so that you can come back.

我們還有哪些方面可以做得更好？我們可以在哪些方面提高效率並充分利用這項技術？這不僅僅指專欄文章，也不僅僅指員工等等方面。我的意思是，隨著時間的推移，你的系統會變得臃腫，你會審視你的軟體堆疊，你會發現，隨著業務的成長，你在各種方面都投入了資金。有時候，對公司進行重組和改造，以便能夠東山再起，也是一種不錯的鍛鍊方式。

It's almost like going into the corner. A prize fight so that you can come out punching, after somebody splashes water on you. So, I'm not concerned, overly concerned about 26 and 27 because we're in a good spot for it. We have a lot of different revenue streams, there's a lot of different opportunities out there to add revenue, to the shareholder, to the company, to the listing, to Sunation as a whole that maybe in the energy field, maybe not, right. So those are the things that give me a lot of confidence moving forward into 2026 and 2027. And at 62 years old, I need a little, I need those pearls to keep me going.

這幾乎就像是走到了死胡同。一場拳擊賽，讓你在被人潑水後還能奮起反擊。所以，我對26和27號並不太擔心，因為我們目前處境不錯。我們有很多不同的收入來源，有很多不同的機會可以增加收入，為股東、公司、上市、Sunation 整體帶來收益，這些機會可能在能源領域，也可能不在，對吧。所以，這些因素讓我對2026年和2027年充滿信心。我已經62歲了，我需要一點，我需要那些珍珠來支撐我繼續前進。

Kevin, I would add to that answer that just for clarification, revenue diversification has been our strength for a long time. The companies that we've seen that have failed over time are ones that have a single source of revenue, and you can name them off the top of your head, I'm sure. In our case, we went out of our way to have 6 or 7, hopefully even more sources of revenue. So we have a residential revenue stream, commercial service, roofing. We actually do electrical work for some of our solar customers.

凱文，我想補充一點，為了澄清一下，收入多元化一直是我們的優勢。我們看到那些最終失敗的公司，往往只有單一的收入來源，我相信你一定能脫口而出一些例子。就我們而言，我們特意爭取了 6 到 7 個，甚至更多收入來源。所以我們的收入來源包括住宅服務、商業服務和屋頂工程。我們實際上為一些太陽能客戶提供電氣工程服務。

We have community solar, and in the future, hopefully if the moons align, we'll add HVAC and some high efficiency. HBC tools and so on. So that because as Scott mentioned, we will see in the future a time where another part of our revenue stream slows down. That's fine. That's part of the cycle that we all live through, but we'll have A backfill from other revenue streams just like in 2025 the commercial team had lower than expected revenue, but I doubt that will be the discussion in 2026 because there's a ton of work that those folks are cranking through right now.

我們有社區太陽能發電系統，未來，如果一切順利，我們將增加暖通空調系統和一些高效節能設備。HBC 工具等等。正如斯科特提到的那樣，未來我們將看到收入來源的另一部分放緩。沒關係。這是我們所有人都要經歷的周期的一部分，但我們會像 2025 年一樣，從其他收入來源彌補損失。 2025 年商業團隊的收入低於預期，但我懷疑 2026 年是否會討論這個問題，因為這些人現在正在努力完成大量的工作。

Thank you. Thanks, Scott and Jim. And actually, Jim, that, that's a good segue into our final question is, can you, how would you describe the market for commercial in 2026?

謝謝。謝謝斯科特和吉姆。吉姆，這正好引出了我們的最後一個問題，您能否描述一下 2026 年的商業市場？

Yeah, so I'll start with that one. I see that we've, in New York we positioned ourselves very well with national developers, we've always taken the approach that it's great to initiate, originate your own work, but I make money when trucks roll our shareholders, when trucks roll and money comes in. So I don't really care who sells the job, but we're really good at executing on. Those things, because of that diversification with the national developers, we're seeing a big in rush in schools, institutional type things, and we're really well suited to execute on that kind of stuff, not saying that, traditional rooftop solar on, an industrial building is going to go away.

好的，那我就從這一個開始吧。我看到我們在紐約與全國開發商建立了非常良好的關係，我們一直秉持著這樣的理念：發起、創造自己的作品固然很好，但只有當卡車運到，我們的股東收到款項，資金流入時，我才能賺錢。所以我並不在意是誰來推銷這個項目，但我們非常擅長執行。由於與全國開發商的多元化合作，我們看到學校、機構等類型的項目需求激增，而我們非常適合執行這類項目，但這並不意味著傳統的工業建築屋頂太陽能發電系統將會消失。

But we have a very strong pipeline and that's going to be a major focus for us moving forward, because, listen, that's kind of where the sweet spot is in the industry right now also, at least until through 2027. So, that's, I, all, there's nothing, damn the torpedoes full set speed ahead on that kind of stuff.

但我們擁有非常強大的產品線，這將是我們未來發展的一個重點，因為，聽著，這至少在 2027 年之前也是產業發展的黃金時期。所以，就是這樣，我，所有的一切，沒有什麼，該死的魚雷全速前進，那種事。

Evan, I would just add to that because we do a lot of work for these large national developers and we do a pretty damn good job at delivering on those projects, we are now getting asked, or actually we've been throughout the year being asked to do work in other states. So, we historically have had a acquisition view on growth into new markets. But this is an organic view, just simply because the commercial team does a good job of delivering. And then the, next thing you know that national developer wants us to go into a different state because they have another project. And so that'll definitely be some growth into next year that we'll see on the commercial side.

埃文，我還要補充一點，因為我們為這些大型全國性開發商做了很多工作，而且我們在交付這些項目方面做得非常出色，所以現在有人要求我們，或者實際上，今年以來一直有人要求我們去其他州工作。因此，我們歷來都採取透過收購來拓展新市場的方式。但這是一種自然而然的看法，只是因為商業團隊在交付方面做得很好。然後，接下來，那家全國性的開發商就想讓我們去另一個州，因為他們還有另一個計畫。因此，明年我們在商業方面肯定會看到一些成長。

Thank you both. That is our final question. So I'll turn things back over to Scott for closing comments.

謝謝你們兩位。這是我們的最後一個問題。那麼，我將把發言權交還給史考特，讓他做最後的總結發言。

Well, thanks for everybody that spent a beautiful sunny Monday morning with us. Customers are happy. They're making money today because the sun's out in New York and soon, Hawaii. I want to wish everybody a happy holiday season. Let's not forget, what's important as we move forward. Revenue and shareholders and business is important, but family first, and that's how we treat our business. So I wanted to thank everybody for the time and the confidence and man, am I looking forward to that end of year report. Okay, so thanks, Devin. Thanks team.

感謝大家和我們一起度過了一個陽光明媚的星期一上午。顧客很滿意。他們今天賺錢是因為紐約陽光明媚，很快夏威夷也會陽光燦爛。祝大家節日快樂。讓我們不要忘記，在我們前進的過程中，什麼是最重要的。收入、股東和業務固然重要，但家庭永遠是第一位的，這也是我們對待業務的方式。所以我想感謝大家抽出時間並給予我信任，而且，我真的非常期待年底的報告。好的，謝謝你，德文。謝謝團隊。

All right, ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's conference call thank you all for joining and you may now disconnect everyone have a great day.

好了，女士們先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束，感謝各位的參與，現在可以斷開連接了，祝大家今天過得愉快。