Stantec Inc (STN) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Stantec's Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Results Webcast and Conference Call. Leading the call today are Gord Johnston, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Theresa Jang, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Stantec invites those dialing in to view the slide presentation which is available in the Investors section at stantec.com.

歡迎收看 Stantec 2023 年第三季獲利結果網路廣播和電話會議。今天主持會議的是總裁兼執行長 Gord Johnston；執行副總裁兼財務長 Theresa Jang。 Stantec 邀請撥入電話的人士觀看幻燈片演示文稿，該幻燈片可在 stantec.com 的投資者部分中找到。

Today's call is also webcast. Please be advised that if you have dialed in while also viewing the webcast, you should mute your computer as there is a delay between the call and the webcast. All information provided during this conference call is subject to the forward-looking statements, qualification set out on Slide 2, detailed in Stantec's management discussion and analysis and incorporated in full for the purpose of today's call. Unless otherwise noted, dollar amounts discussed in today's call are expressed in Canadian dollars and are generally rounded. With that, I'm pleased to turn the call over to Mr. Gord Johnston.

今天的電話會議也是網路直播的。請注意，如果您在觀看網路廣播的同時撥入，則應將電腦靜音，因為通話和網路廣播之間存在延遲。本次電話會議期間提供的所有資訊均受幻燈片2 中列出的前瞻性陳述和限定條件的約束，這些資訊在Stantec 的管理層討論和分析中進行了詳細介紹，並已完整納入今天的電話會議中。除非另有說明，今天電話會議中討論的美元金額均以加元表示，並且通常會四捨五入。至此，我很高興將電話轉給戈德·約翰斯頓先生。

Good morning. Thank you for joining us today. I'm very pleased to report that Stantec has delivered another quarter of record earnings. We continue to see very strong market demand across all of our geographies, with Canada, in particular, showing remarkable resilience. We met this demand with excellent operational performance driven by high utilization and augmented by our effective workforce management strategies and strong talent attraction and retention.

早安.感謝您今天加入我們。我很高興地報告，Stantec 的季度獲利又創歷史新高。我們繼續看到我們所有地區的市場需求都非常強勁，尤其是加拿大，展現了非凡的彈性。我們透過高利用率推動的卓越營運績效滿足了這一需求，並透過有效的勞動力管理策略和強大的人才吸引和保留來增強。

Organic hiring remains robust. This was the busiest Q3 we've ever experienced in terms of hiring and we are hiring at 2x the rate that we were pre-pandemic. And our North American -- sorry, and our employee retention rates remain amongst the best in our industry, with voluntary turnover in North America returned to pre-pandemic levels. These are some of the key drivers that led to our Q3 earnings exceeding our expectations. Looking at our financial results, we grew our net revenue by 14% to $1.3 billion with organic growth of 9%.

有機招募依然強勁。這是我們在招募方面經歷過的最繁忙的第三季度，我們的招募速度是疫情大流行前的兩倍。我們的北美地區——抱歉，我們的員工留任率仍然是該行業中最好的，北美地區的自願離職率恢復到了大流行前的水平。這些是導致我們第三季收益超出預期的一些關鍵驅動因素。從我們的財務表現來看，我們的淨收入成長了 14%，達到 13 億美元，有機成長率為 9%。

For the seventh consecutive quarter, each of our regional and business operating units delivered organic growth with double-digit growth in the U.S. region and in our Water and Environmental Services business segments. We drove significant margin expansion and delivered record high adjusted EPS of $1.14. On the strength of our performance to date and our expectation of continued favorable tailwinds, we've raised our guidance for the second time this year, and I'll speak more about this a little later in the presentation. Our U.S. business delivered a very strong third quarter. This included net revenue growth of 20% in the quarter, with 13% organic growth and 5% acquisition growth, driven primarily from our acquisition of ESD. We achieved organic growth in each business line with Water, Buildings and Energy & Resources, all delivering double-digit growth.

我們的每個區域和業務營運單位連續第七個季度實現有機成長，在美國地區以及水和環境服務業務部門實現了兩位數成長。我們大幅提高了利潤率，並實現了 1.14 美元的創紀錄高調整後每股收益。鑑於我們迄今為止的表現以及對持續有利順風的預期，我們今年第二次提高了我們的指導，我將在稍後的演示中詳細討論這一點。我們的美國業務第三季表現非常強勁。其中包括本季 20% 的淨收入成長、13% 的有機成長和 5% 的收購成長，這主要是由我們收購 ESD 所推動的。我們在水務、建築和能源與資源等各個業務領域都實現了有機成長，全部實現了兩位數的成長。

In particular, our U.S. water business delivered 26% organic growth, driven by public sector and industrial project demand as well as large-scale water security projects in the Western U.S. We continue to see strong demand in health care, industrial and science and technology end markets for our Buildings business. Within our Energy & Resources business, we're continued on the major power grid upgrade project in Puerto Rico, and we started to ramp up on a rare minerals energy transition project in California. Our infrastructure and environmental services teams also remain very active in the U.S., delivering high levels of growth. In Canada, we delivered over 7% organic net revenue growth with double-digit growth in Environmental Services, Infrastructure and Water. Environmental Services delivered strong growth on the back of demand for services in permitting and archeological work in the midstream and transportation sectors. Activity on environmental impact assessments also increased in the renewable energy sector.

特別是，在公共部門和工業項目需求以及美國西部大型水安全項目的推動下，我們的美國水務業務實現了 26% 的有機增長。我們繼續看到醫療保健、工業和科技領域的強勁需求我們的建築業務的市場。在我們的能源和資源業務中，我們繼續進行波多黎各的主要電網升級項目，並開始加強在加州的稀有礦物能源轉型項目的力度。我們的基礎設施和環境服務團隊在美國也仍然非常活躍，並實現了高水準的成長。在加拿大，我們實現了超過 7% 的有機淨收入成長，其中環境服務、基礎設施和水務領域實現了兩位數成長。在中游和運輸部門的許可和考古工作服務需求的支持下，環境服務實現了強勁增長。再生能源領域的環境影響評估活動也有所增加。

Infrastructure remained robust, driven by heightened activities around bridge and roadway work in Western Canada. And our expertise on large wastewater infrastructure projects drove growth in water. Our global business delivered 6% net revenue growth quarter-over-quarter with 2% organic growth. Our industry-leading Water business delivered high single-digit organic growth. The teams remain very active in the U.K. on AMP7 and have also begun assisting clients with their AMP8 program submissions. Work supporting long-term framework agreements and investments in water infrastructure in New Zealand and Australia also continued to drive growth.

在加拿大西部橋樑和道路工程活動增加的推動下，基礎設施仍然強勁。我們在大型廢水基礎設施專案方面的專業知識推動了水資源的成長。我們的全球業務淨收入較上季成長 6%，有機成長 2%。我們行業領先的水務業務實現了高單位數有機成長。這些團隊在英國的 AMP7 上仍然非常活躍，也開始協助客戶提交 AMP8 程序。支持紐西蘭和澳洲長期框架協議和水基礎設施投資的工作也持續推動成長。

Double-digit organic growth was achieved in Energy & Resources. Work on the Coire Glas pumped storage project in the U.K. continued to ramp up, as did mining activities in Latin America around copper and other metals that will support the energy transition. And now I'll turn the call over to Theresa to review our financial results in more detail.

能源和資源業務實現了兩位數的有機成長。英國 Coire Glas 抽水蓄能計畫的建設持續加快，拉丁美洲圍繞銅和其他金屬的採礦活動也將支持能源轉型。現在我將把電話轉給特蕾莎，以更詳細地審查我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Gord, and good morning, everyone. As Gord mentioned, our third quarter results exceeded our expectations. Factors that contributed to our outperformance include stronger-than-anticipated demand in Canada, higher utilization in Canada and the U.S., robust hiring, disciplined cost management and a higher-than-normal volume of change order approval.

謝謝你，戈德，大家早安。正如戈德所提到的，我們第三季的業績超出了我們的預期。導致我們表現優異的因素包括加拿大的需求強於預期、加拿大和美國的利用率較高、強勁的招聘、嚴格的成本管理以及高於正常水平的變更單批准量。

Gross revenue was up 15% in the quarter at $1.7 billion, while net revenue grew by 14% to reach $1.3 billion. Project margin increased 70 basis points to 54.8%, benefiting from disciplined project selection and execution. Our strong operational performance drove a 160 basis point increase in our adjusted EBITDA margin. For the quarter, diluted EPS was $0.94, compared to $0.61 in Q3 last year. And adjusted diluted EPS increased 33% to a record $1.14, compared with $0.86 last year.

本季總營收成長 15%，達到 17 億美元，淨收入成長 14%，達到 13 億美元。由於嚴格的專案選擇和執行，專案利潤率增加了 70 個基點，達到 54.8%。我們強勁的營運業績推動調整後 EBITDA 利潤率成長 160 個基點。本季攤薄後每股收益為 0.94 美元，去年第三季為 0.61 美元。調整後攤薄每股收益成長 33%，達到創紀錄的 1.14 美元，去年為 0.86 美元。

As has been the case all year, the significant increase in our share price for the year-to-date has resulted in a material increase in our admin and marketing expenses due to the quarterly revaluation of our long-term incentive plan. The impact of revaluing our LTIP was 60 basis points as a percentage of net revenue or $0.05 per share for Q3. Year-to-date, the revaluation went 60 basis points or $0.15 per share.

與全年的情況一樣，由於我們的長期激勵計劃每季重估，我們今年迄今的股價大幅上漲，導致我們的管理和行銷費用大幅增加。重新評估 LTIP 的影響佔第三季淨收入的百分比為 60 個基點，即每股 0.05 美元。今年迄今為止，重估了 60 個基點，即每股 0.15 美元。

Now turning to our liquidity and capital resources. We generated $281 million of operating cash flow year-to-date compared to $95 million over the same period last year. Cash flow this year has benefited from increased revenues and strong operational performance, partially offset by an increase in working capital investments to support growth, higher tax installment payments, driven in part by the impact of the U.S. Section 174 and higher interest payments. Last year's operating cash flow reflected the impact of the Cardno financial systems integration.

現在轉向我們的流動性和資本資源。年初至今，我們產生了 2.81 億美元的營運現金流，而去年同期為 9,500 萬美元。今年的現金流受益於收入的增加和強勁的營運業績，但部分被支持成長的營運資本投資的增加、較高的稅收分期付款（部分是由於美國第174 條的影響和較高的利息支付）所抵消。去年的營運現金流反映了卡德諾財務系統整合的影響。

At the end of September, DSO was 83 days, a couple of days higher than the previous quarters. It is fairly typical for DSO to rise in the third quarter due to seasonality. And our net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio was 1.5x, well within our internal leverage range of 1 to 2x. And with that, I'll turn the call back to Gord.

9月底，DSO為83天，比前幾季增加了幾天。由於季節性原因，第三季 DSO 上升是相當典型的。我們的淨負債與調整後 EBITDA 的比率為 1.5 倍，完全在我們 1 至 2 倍的內部槓桿範圍內。說完，我會把電話轉回給戈德。

Thanks, Theresa. Backlog in the third quarter remained very strong at $6.4 billion, an increase of 8% from December 2022. Backlog has grown organically by 6% and continues to grow in each of our geographic regions. Backlog growth was most pronounced in Water, which is up 23% organically. Water continues to increase with project wins around water security, wastewater treatment solutions and water requirements for power generation to support the energy transition. And of course, with AMP7 still underway, we continue to add to our backlog as new task orders are issued.

謝謝，特蕾莎。第三季的積壓訂單仍然非常強勁，達到 64 億美元，比 2022 年 12 月增長了 8%。積壓訂單有機增長了 6%，並且在我們每個地理區域持續增長。水務領域的積壓訂單成長最為明顯，有機成長了 23%。隨著圍繞水安全、廢水處理解決方案和支援能源轉型的發電用水需求等專案的成功，用水量持續增加。當然，由於 AMP7 仍在進行中，隨著新任務訂單的發布，我們將繼續增加積壓工作。

We've also started to secure backlog for AMP8 with Northumbrian Water announced earlier this year and Southwest Water, which was just announced this week.

我們也開始與今年稍早宣布的 Northumbrian Water 和本週剛宣布的 Southwest Water 合作，確保 AMP8 的積壓。

Buildings backlog saw a solid organic growth. Buildings has captured wins in all of their subsectors, the majority of which continues to be in health care, civic, industrial and science and technology. Buildings is also benefiting from backlog brought in through the acquisition of ESD, which primarily relates to data centers and mission-critical facilities. Environmental Services backlog reflects additional project wins related to environmental assessments, including natural resource surveys, regulatory permitting and environmental monitoring for construction projects.

建築積壓訂單實現了穩健的有機成長。建築業在所有子行業都取得了勝利，其中大部分仍然是醫療保健、公民、工業和科學技術領域。 Buildings 也受惠於收購 ESD 帶來的積壓訂單，主要涉及資料中心和關鍵任務設施。環境服務積壓反映了與環境評估相關的額外項目勝利，包括自然資源調查、建設項目的監管許可和環境監測。

While difficult to precisely quantify, we do know that our backlog includes projects that are backed with IIJA and IRA funding. Our backlog represents approximately 12 months of work.

雖然很難精確量化，但我們確實知道我們的積壓項目包括由 IIJA 和 IRA 資金支持的項目。我們的積壓工作大約相當於 12 個月的工作量。

Providing reliable water supply requires investment in water management and water infrastructure, and we're proud to partner with clients around the world to get water to where it's needed. Recently, we announced that we were awarded a continuation of our contract with Tampa Bay Water with the final design and construction management of a new water supply pipeline. We've been working with Tampa Bay Water since 2009 to help meet the growing demand for potable water.

提供可靠的供水需要對水管理和水基礎設施進行投資，我們很自豪能夠與世界各地的客戶合作，將水輸送到需要的地方。最近，我們宣布與坦帕灣水務公司續約，負責新供水管道的最終設計和施工管理。自 2009 年以來，我們一直與坦帕灣水務公司合作，協助滿足日益增長的飲用水需求。

Stantec has been appointed as a civil engineering design consultant for extensive upgrades to Belfast Wastewater Treatments Work, the largest wastewater treatment plant in Northern Ireland. We look forward to working with the integrated partners to provide cutting-edge innovations for flood mitigation, doubling the capacity of the plant and improving the water quality for the community.

Stantec 被任命為土木工程設計顧問，負責對北愛爾蘭最大的廢水處理廠貝爾法斯特廢水處理廠進行大規模升級。我們期待與綜合合作夥伴合作，為防洪提供尖端創新，使工廠的產能翻倍，並改善社區的水質。

We continue to provide our expertise for energy transition projects. As the primary environmental consultant for the recently announced community offshore wind project, we will develop a construction plan and assist with permitting along with other consultant services. This project has the potential to provide power for over 1 million homes in New York and New Jersey.

我們繼續為能源轉型專案提供專業知識。作為最近宣布的社區離岸風電項目的主要環境顧問，我們將製定施工計劃並協助獲得許可以及其他諮詢服務。該計畫有潛力為紐約和新澤西州超過 100 萬戶家庭提供電力。

Looking towards the remainder of this year, we expect to drive towards a strong finish. We've raised our guidance again for the full year as a result of our strong third quarter results. Activity remains robust in the fourth quarter, taking into account its typical seasonality. We've raised our net revenue growth target for the year to 12% to 14% and expect organic revenue growth to be in the high single digits.

展望今年剩餘時間，我們預計將取得強勁的成績。由於第三季業績強勁，我們再次上調了全年指引。考慮到其典型的季節性因素，第四季的經濟活動依然強勁。我們已將今年的淨收入成長目標提高至 12% 至 14%，並預計有機收入成長將達到較高的個位數。

In the U.S., we expect low double-digit organic revenue growth. In global, we expect mid- to high single-digit organic growth. In Canada, we're raising our guidance to mid- to high single-digit growth. We're also increasing our EBITDA margin target for the year in the range of 16.7% to 17.1%. And finally, we're raising our guidance for adjusted diluted EPS growth of 22% to 25%, which reflects the remarkable operating leverage we've been able to achieve so far this year.

在美國，我們預期有機收入將出現兩位數的低成長。在全球範圍內，我們預計有機成長將達到中高個位數。在加拿大，我們將預測上調至中高個位數成長。我們也將今年的 EBITDA 利潤率目標提高到 16.7% 至 17.1%。最後，我們將調整後攤薄每股收益成長預期從 22% 提高到 25%，這反映了我們今年迄今所實現的卓越營運槓桿。

While the targets I've just spoke to exclude the impact of our long-term incentive plan revaluation, we've also included the targets with the expected impact which is how they will be reported in our financials. You can view these on Slide 13 of our Q3 presentation and in our earnings news release.

雖然我剛才談到的目標排除了我們長期激勵計畫重估的影響，但我們也包括了具有預期影響的目標，這就是它們在我們的財務報告中的報告方式。您可以在我們第三季簡報的投影片 13 和我們的收益新聞稿中查看這些內容。

Looking beyond 2023, we remain very confident that our diverse business model and engaged workforce are ideally positioned to continue creating industry-leading results. We continue to closely monitor projects in our backlog for indications of a recession or economic slowdown, but our backlog remains solid. We're not seeing any significant delays or cancellations. As well, bid activity remains very robust.

展望 2023 年以後，我們仍然非常有信心，我們多元化的業務模式和敬業的員工隊伍處於理想位置，能夠繼續創造行業領先的業績。我們繼續密切監視積壓項目中是否存在經濟衰退或經濟放緩的跡象，但我們的積壓項目仍然穩固。我們沒有看到任何重大延誤或取消。此外，投標活動仍然非常活躍。

In developing our upcoming new 3-year strategic plan, we've been doing a deep dive across all areas of our business, and I can say that we remain very optimistic and excited about the future. We look forward to sharing our vision for the next chapter of our journey on December 5, when we announce our new plan and we hope that you'll be able to join us. And with that, I'll turn the call back to the operator for questions. Operator?

在製定即將到來的新的三年策略計劃時，我們一直在深入研究我們業務的所有領域，我可以說我們對未來仍然非常樂觀和興奮。我們期待在 12 月 5 日宣布我們的新計劃時分享我們對旅程下一章的願景，並希望您能夠加入我們。然後，我會將電話轉回給接線生詢問問題。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) And our first question comes from the line of Benoit Poirier with Desjardins.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Benoit Poirier 和 Desjardins 的線路。

Yes. Congratulations for the outstanding results. Looking at the EBITDA margin, 18.3% in the quarter, very impressive. I was just wondering about what were the main drivers behind this strong performance and it looks like that this is the biggest margin you post in recent history despite the LTIP and tax. So -- and it looks like that it implies a much weaker margin in Q4. So any thoughts about what drove the performance and the implication for Q4?

是的。祝賀取得優異成績。看看本季的 EBITDA 利潤率為 18.3%，非常可觀。我只是想知道這種強勁表現背後的主要驅動因素是什麼，儘管有 LTIP 和稅收，但看起來這是近代史上最大的利潤率。所以——看起來這意味著第四季的利潤率要弱得多。那麼對於推動業績的因素以及對第四季的影響有什麼想法嗎？

Sure. So you're right, we had a very, very strong quarter from an EBITDA margin perspective and really reflective throughout our financial results. And so as you -- I would account -- and so I think of this, as you roll your way through the P&L. And it really starts with the quality of our revenue, our ability to execute well that has driven a stronger project margin. And as we work through to our EBITDA, the primary driver, as I've always said, is our ability to maintain high utilization. And so that compounding effect of high utilization that's driving higher absolute dollars, it means that you have a lower proportion of your workforce that is not utilized and sort of dropping those costs into unrecoverable line or admin labor.

當然。所以你是對的，從 EBITDA 利潤率的角度來看，我們度過了一個非常非常強勁的季度，並且真正反映了我們的整個財務表現。因此，當你滾動查看損益表時，我會考慮這一點。這實際上始於我們的收入品質和我們良好的執行能力，這推動了更高的專案利潤。正如我一直所說，當我們努力實現 EBITDA 時，主要驅動力是我們保持高利用率的能力。因此，高利用率的複合效應推動了絕對美元的上漲，這意味著您的勞動力中未被利用的比例較低，並將這些成本降低到了無法收回的生產線或管理勞動力中。

It also means that there's been a little less time for folks to spend time on marketing and business development, not to the degree to which we would neglect that, of course, but it just means in real time that there is a focus on addressing current projects and getting that work accomplished. And we combine that with, again, a continued focus and discipline on our spending. And we have seen a rise in the [use] and the hiring in our high-value centers in Pune in particular. So it's really, I think, a matter of doing all the things that we're supposed to be doing all at the same time and driving to a really strong result.

這也意味著人們花在行銷和業務開發上的時間有所減少，當然，還沒有達到我們忽略這一點的程度，但這只是意味著即時專注於解決當前的問題專案並完成該工作。我們再次將這一點與對支出的持續關注和紀律結合起來。我們看到，尤其是浦那高價值中心的[使用]和招募增加。所以，我認為，這實際上是一個同時做我們應該做的所有事情並取得真正強勁結果的問題。

As we look towards the fourth quarter, it does typically moderate, and that is our expectation. It tends to be a little bit slower. So utilization is not just high because of weather-related reasons. Fuel season is largely over in colder climate. It's a busier holiday season. And we do expect and want people to take time off to refresh, to take their vacation time as we work into the fourth quarter. And so that is fairly typical. And that is why the -- you'd see that fourth quarter EBITDA margin will -- is expected to come down.

當我們展望第四季時，它通常會放緩，這就是我們的預期。它往往會慢一點。因此，利用率高不僅僅是因為天氣相關的原因。在寒冷的氣候下，燃油季節已基本結束。這是一個更繁忙的假期季節。我們確實期望並希望人們在第四季度工作時能夠抽出時間來恢復精神、享受假期。所以這是相當典型的。這就是為什麼——你會看到第四季度的 EBITDA 利潤率——預計會下降。

Okay. That's great color, Theresa. And just looking at your organic backlog, it's declined 4% quarter-over-quarter, was mostly driven by the U.S. and Canada. Is this mostly due to project timing and the confirmation of funding flow from government infrastructure programs? And on a high level, what are you seeing on your hand in terms of speed for funding coming out?

好的。這顏色真棒，特蕾莎。只要看看你的有機積壓訂單，就會發現它環比下降了 4%，這主要是由美國和加拿大推動的。這主要是由於專案時間表和政府基礎設施專案資金流的確認嗎？從較高的層面來看，您認為資金到位的速度如何？

Yes. So maybe I'll address the first piece and Gord can talk about the timing of funding. But part of what you described is what drove the drawdown of backlog from Q2 to Q3, it was in Canada and in the U.S. And again, that correlates directly with the outperformance of organic revenue growth and it means that we drew down that backlog faster, we were busier. And again, that's reflected in the revenue growth. So it's not a trend that we would find concerning at all. I think it is just sort of the advantage of what you typically see in the back half, usually more in the fourth quarter, but activity level remains very high on the bidding front.

是的。所以也許我會討論第一部分，戈德可以談談資金的時間安排。但你所描述的部分原因是導致積壓從第二季到第三季減少的原因，是在加拿大和美國。同樣，這與有機收入成長的優異表現直接相關，這意味著我們更快地減少了積壓，我們更忙。同樣，這也反映在收入成長上。所以這根本不是我們擔心的趨勢。我認為這只是你通常在後半段看到的優勢，通常在第四季度更多，但投標方面的活動水平仍然非常高。

And as you referenced, the timing within which we actually have everything completed so that we can record in backlog, it's a snapshot in time. So we're confident that backlog remains very solid and has a great trajectory.

正如您所提到的，我們實際上完成所有工作以便我們可以記錄積壓的時間，這是一個及時的快照。因此，我們相信積壓訂單仍然非常穩定，並且具有良好的發展軌跡。

Yes, completely agree. We're not concerned with that reduction in backlog on a quarterly basis, Benoit. But on the timing, we are seeing that some funding starting to flow. It's always -- we've been talking about this IIJA now for a couple of years, and it's always -- we've been optimistic as an industry that it's this quarter, the next quarter, this half, the next half. But we are seeing that those -- about 23% of the IIJA funds have been dispersed. We're getting ready for the '24 allocations now. So that's starting to hit the street now. So I think that's only going to continue to strengthen.

是的，完全同意。伯努瓦，我們並不關心季度積壓訂單的減少。但就時間安排而言，我們看到一些資金開始流動。幾年來，我們一直在談論 IIJA，而且作為一個行業，我們一直對這個季度、下個季度、今年下半年、下半年感到樂觀。但我們看到，大約 23% 的 IIJA 資金已經被分散。我們現在正在為 24 年的分配做好準備。所以現在它開始流行起來。所以我認為這種情況只會繼續加強。

The interesting thing is that when you look at our strong performance year-to-date, that's been without really any of the funding from IIJA or some of those other things. So that's I think just going to further strengthen as we move into '24 and the years beyond.

有趣的是，當你看到我們今年迄今為止的強勁表現時，你會發現我們實際上並沒有獲得 IIJA 或其他一些資​​金的資助。所以我認為，隨著我們進入 24 年及以後的歲月，這一點將會進一步加強。

Okay. So looking forward to seeing you in Boston on December 5.

好的。期待 12 月 5 日在波士頓見到您。

And our next question is going to come from the line of Michael Doumet with Scotiabank.

我們的下一個問題將來自豐業銀行的 Michael Doumet。

So on the margins, obviously, really good margin expansion in Q2 to Q3. A little bit of a follow-up on the last question, but now you're exiting Q4 flattish versus the big Q3, Q4 margin expansion -- sorry, Q2, Q3 margin expansion. How do we square the moving parts into 2024, given the above-average margin expansion in '23, but the flattish margin exit?

因此，在利潤率方面，顯然，第二季到第三季的利潤率擴張確實非常好。對最後一個問題有一點後續，但現在第四季的利潤率擴張與第三季、第四季的利潤率擴張相比持平——對不起，第二季、第三季的利潤率擴張。鑑於 23 年利潤率擴張高於平均水平，但利潤率持平，我們如何調整 2024 年的變動因素？

So I think when we look at our margin and we consider on an as-reported basis, so throughout this year, because of the impact of LTIP revaluation, we pulled that piece out, so we can identify what our performance has been relative to the baseline we said at the start of the year. But of course, as Gord noted in his remarks, the LTIP impact is in our admin and marketing costs and that does reflect in our EBITDA margin. And so when we come out of this year, we do expect that the margin will be higher than it was last year. And as we look towards the coming years, we continue to expect to be able to grow that margin, recognizing that if our share price stays where it is and continues to expand, that there will continue to be this dynamic of a growing impact on our cost. But notwithstanding that, we do expect that the margin will continue to expand.

因此，我認為，當我們查看利潤率時，我們會根據報告的基礎進行考慮，因此今年全年，由於 LTIP 重估的影響，我們將這一部分剔除，這樣我們就可以確定我們的業績相對於我們在年初就說過的基線。但當然，正如戈德在演講中指出的那樣，LTIP 的影響在於我們的管理和行銷成本，這確實反映在我們的 EBITDA 利潤率中。因此，當我們今年結束時，我們確實預計利潤率將高於去年。當我們展望未來幾年時，我們繼續期望能夠提高這一利潤率，因為我們認識到，如果我們的股價保持在現有水平並繼續擴大，這種對我們的影響力將繼續產生越來越大的動態。成本。但儘管如此，我們確實預期利潤率將繼續擴大。

So it's not something that we're concerned about in terms of our ability to drive that margin growth and, again, it's all those levers that I talked about earlier and a few other things thrown in that are going to help us to continue to grow our margins.

因此，就推動利潤成長的能力而言，我們並不擔心，而且我之前談到的所有槓桿以及其他一些因素將幫助我們繼續成長我們的利潤。

Super helpful. And I think you talked about some of the reasons for the upside surprise in Canada. I guess the question is, how sustainable do you find as incremental organic push here? Because if we were to assume Canada, as I call it a mid-single-digit organic growth type market, does this effectively represent a tougher comp for next year? Just trying to spur that out as well.

超有幫助。我認為您談到了加拿大出現意外上漲的一些原因。我想問題是，你認為增量有機推動的可持續性如何？因為如果我們假設加拿大（我稱之為中個位數有機成長型市場），這是否實際上代表了明年的競爭更加激烈？只是試圖刺激這一點。

Yes. I mean, it does. Any time you have a very good year, it makes it harder next year from a mathematical growth standpoint. And that's -- when we came into this year, that's what we're anticipating because the back half of last year was really strong for Canada. And so we have been very pleased with the continued high level of demand in Canada. Some drivers around increased investment in health care, in our building sector, for instance, has just been greater and more sustained than we had expected. And we're expecting that, that's going to continue in the next year.

是的。我的意思是，確實如此。從數學成長的角度來看，只要你度過了非常好的一年，明年就會變得更加困難。這就是——當我們進入今年時，這就是我們的預期，因為去年下半年加拿大的表現非常強勁。因此，我們對加拿大持續高水準的需求感到非常滿意。例如，在我們的建築業，醫療保健投資增加的一些驅動因素比我們的預期更大、更持久。我們預計這種情況將在明年繼續下去。

There have been a couple of larger projects for both our environmental and our transportation groups that have gone faster than we expected and driven solid growth this year. And so how that affects our growth rates for next year is part of what we're working on as we are prepared to roll out our strategic plan targets and our guidance in early December. But we do expect that there will continue to be growth in Canada. Will it be as strong as it's been this year, will it moderate somewhat, that's the piece we're working on, but we do still expect Canada to have the capacity to grow next year.

我們的環境和運輸集團有幾個較大的項目，其進展速度比我們預期的要快，並推動了今年的穩健成長。因此，這如何影響我們明年的成長率是我們正在努力的一部分，因為我們準備在 12 月初推出我們的策略計畫目標和指導。但我們確實預計加拿大將繼續成長。它會像今年一樣強勁，還是會有所放緩，這是我們正在研究的問題，但我們仍然預計加拿大明年有能力成長。

And our next question is going to come from the line of Chris Murray with ATB Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題將來自 ATB Capital Markets 的 Chris Murray。

Gordon, maybe this is the second quarter in a row where you guys have seen some really good organic growth. And really, your commentary is quite optimistic about the future. So as I'm hearing you, and I'm kind of putting together the pieces, it kind of sounds like there -- you talked about a little bit that you haven't really even seen much of the benefit from things like IIJA, that a lot of the -- what you're seeing in organic has been good. And then you also mentioned, I think, your turnover was better maybe than you had expected.

戈登，也許這是你們連續第二個季度看到了一些非常好的有機成長。確實，您的評論對未來非常樂觀。所以當我聽到你的聲音時，我正在將這些片段放在一起，聽起來有點像——你談到了一點，你甚至沒有真正看到像 IIJA 這樣的東西帶來的好處，你在有機食品中看到的很多東西都是好的。然後你也提到，我認為你的營業額可能比你預期的還要好。

As we put that together and we think about the next couple of years, is there anything to suggest that you wouldn't be above kind of the normal organic kind of mid-single-digit growth rate through '24, probably for '25 and '26 as well?

當我們把這些放在一起並考慮未來幾年時，有什麼跡象表明，到 24 年，可能到 25 年，您不會高於正常的有機增長率，即中個位數增長率。'26 也這樣嗎？

We will be issuing our guidance for 2024 in December 5, when we have our role at our strategic plan in Boston. So yes, I won't comment specifically on any numbers. But when you think about the industry overall, I've been -- this is the season where there's a number of these engineering firm CEO conferences. And so I've attended 2 of those recently. And the general sentiment is that the market is very, very robust. We see that strong support in -- certainly in water and in transportation and energy and energy transition, like there's just an enormous amount of opportunity there. So there is nothing that we see on the horizon in any of our geographies that we would think would be pointing to a downturn in our overall business for us and truly for our competitors. So we really do feel good about the next several years.

我們將於 12 月 5 日發布 2024 年指導意見，屆時我們將在波士頓制定策略計畫。所以是的，我不會具體評論任何數字。但當你考慮整個行業時，我一直認為，這個季節會召開許多工程公司執行長會議。我最近參加了其中兩次。普遍的看法是市場非常非常強勁。我們看到了在水、交通、能源和能源轉型方面的大力支持，就像那裡存在著巨大的機會一樣。因此，我們在任何地區都沒有看到任何我們認為會導致我們整體業務下滑的情況，也確實對我們的競爭對手而言。所以我們對未來幾年確實感覺良好。

Okay. That's sure. And then Theresa, just maybe talking and going back to project margin for a couple of seconds. Again, very good result. We saw that. You did make the comment, I think in a couple of the segments that there were some recoveries that also went into the margin. Can you give us a sense of the order of magnitude, either dollars or basis points on how much that played into the margin performance in the quarter?

好的。那是肯定的。然後特蕾莎，也許只是談談，然後回到計畫利潤幾秒鐘。再次，非常好的結果。我們看到了。您確實發表了評論，我認為在幾個部分中，有一些復甦也進入了利潤範圍。您能否讓我們了解一下其對本季利潤率表現的影響程度（無論是美元還是基點）？

Sure. Yes. I mean the recoveries, risk releases, change order approval, those are always a dynamic within our business, of course. And what we saw this quarter was a slightly higher volume of that than typical and we felt it was important to call out as one of the drivers. It certainly wasn't the most significant driver in terms of our outperformance, but it has an impact. And we would estimate it was around 20-ish basis points from a margin standpoint. So again, not overly significant, but enough to make an impact.

當然。是的。當然，我的意思是回收、風險釋放、變更單批准，這些始終是我們業務中的動態。我們本季看到的數量比平時略高，我們認為作為推動者之一很重要。就我們的優異表現而言，這當然不是最重要的驅動因素，但它確實產生了影響。從利潤率的角度來看，我們估計約為 20 個基點左右。再說一次，雖然不是太重要，但足以產生影響。

And our next question comes from the line of Michael Tupholme with TD Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自道明證券的 Michael Tupholme。

Maybe just a follow-up on the last question about the change order impact, Theresa. The -- I appreciate the color on the margin impact. Would that have had any impact in the organic growth rate you did in the quarter in terms of benefiting it?

也許只是關於變更單影響的最後一個問題的後續行動，Theresa。 - 我很欣賞顏色對邊緣的影響。這會對您本季的有機成長率產生任何影響嗎？

Not really. No.

並不真地。不。

Okay. I didn't think so, I just thought I'd check. And then in terms of the margin for the fourth quarter, maybe when we're just thinking about EBITDA margins, you talked a little bit about this earlier, but when we're looking at project margins and then SG&A as a percentage of revenue in the fourth quarter, what is it that we should really be thinking about as sort of the area that sees sort of the biggest pull back as you go into the fourth quarter and see a bit of a step down?

好的。我沒想到，我只是想檢查一下。然後就第四季度的利潤率而言，也許當我們只考慮 EBITDA 利潤率時，您之前談到了這一點，但是當我們考慮項目利潤率以及 SG&A 佔收入的百分比時第四季度，當您進入第四季並看到一些下降時，我們真正應該考慮的是什麼領域會出現最大的回調？

So I think as we head into the fourth quarter, again, that we're going to expect in general that organic growth will likely moderate relative to what we've seen for the first 9 months of this year. I think project margin, we should expect would not very dramatically in terms of the percentage of project margin because that is purely a reflection of our execution on particular projects. But we do expect that EBITDA margin driven mostly by admin and marketing costs will be lower than what you've seen for Q2 and Q3 in particular, again, as we have probably a slower or a step down in our utilization to reflect the -- consistent with the comments I made earlier. So that's where you're going to see it, I think. And that should be fairly broad-based across our organization.

因此，我認為，當我們進入第四季度時，我們預計總體上有機成長可能會相對於今年前 9 個月的情況有所放緩。我認為專案利潤率，我們應該預期專案利潤率不會非常顯著，因為這純粹反映了我們對特定專案的執行情況。但我們確實預計，主要由管理和行銷成本驅動的EBITDA 利潤率將低於您在第二季和第三季看到的水平，特別是，因為我們的使用率可能會放緩或下降，以反映——與我之前發表的評論一致。我想這就是你會看到的地方。這應該在我們的組織中具有相當廣泛的基礎。

That's helpful. And then I suspect we may get some more thoughts and detail on this at the Investor Day, but maybe I'll just ask right now, just in terms of looking forward on the margin performance and potential within the business. How do you think about the margin improvement potential from here? Again, you had a very strong quarter here in the third quarter. Are there -- what would be the potential drivers to further improvement? And sort of how much room might there be to go on that front?

這很有幫助。然後我懷疑我們可能會在投資者日獲得更多關於此問題的想法和細節，但也許我現在就問，只是在展望利潤率表現和業務潛力方面。您如何看待這裡的利潤率改善潛力？同樣，第三季的表現非常強勁。進一步改進的潛在驅動因素是什麼？這方面可能有多少空間？

Yes. So there -- we -- as I said earlier, there is room to continue to expand margins. And -- but we will go into a bit more detail at our Investor Day when we roll out our strat plan. But there's not going to be anything shocking in there. So it's all the same drivers. And I think, again, what you saw -- what you've seen us do for the year-to-date is really successfully deploy all of these strategies to grow our margins. And so I have every expectation that what we've done to this point will continue, and that will -- the operating leverage that we'll gain through our business, through our size, our scale, our ability to manage our workforce in a strategic way, all of those things will continue to give us opportunity to expand our margins.

是的。因此，正如我之前所說，我們還有繼續擴大利潤率的空間。而且—但我們將在投資者日推出策略計畫時詳細介紹一些細節。但裡面不會有什麼令人震驚的事。所以都是相同的驅動程式。我再次認為，您所看到的 - 您所看到的我們今年迄今為止所做的確實成功地部署了所有這些策略來增加我們的利潤。因此，我完全期望我們迄今為止所做的一切將繼續下去，這將是我們將透過我們的業務、我們的規模、我們管理員工的能力所獲得的營運槓桿。從策略角度來看，所有這些事情將繼續為我們提供擴大利潤的機會。

And maybe just one last one here. I appreciate the challenge early in the year with trying to provide guidance that is inclusive of the LTIP piece, really appreciate you giving us that detail this time around because it's sort of more closely aligned with how the results actually get reported. I guess the question is, in the guidance you've given that includes the expected impact of LTIP revaluation, do you make assumptions for the fourth quarter and coming to these numbers on what that looks like? Or do you just assume nothing? Or how do you deal with that in the fourth quarter in the assumptions?

也許這裡只是最後一個。我很欣賞今年年初的挑戰，試圖提供包含 LTIP 內容的指導，非常感謝您這次向我們提供這些細節，因為它與實際報告結果的方式更加一致。我想問題是，在您給出的指導中，包括 LTIP 重估的預期影響，您是否對第四季度做出假設並得出這些數字的樣子？或者你只是假設什麼都沒有？或者說你在第四季的假設中如何處理這個問題？

Yes. It's proven to be quite tricky to think our way through how to provide it in a way that's helpful because I'll start by saying -- a number of you have asked us one-on-one, why can't you give us specific guidance or a rule of thumb or how this works. And in part, what complicates this is our need from an accounting standpoint, to run a Monte Carlo simulation on what our performance from a relative TSR standpoint is compared to our peers. And so that is a wild card.

是的。事實證明，思考如何以一種有用的方式提供它是相當棘手的，因為我首先要說的是——你們中的一些人已經一對一地詢問了我們，為什麼你們不能給我們具體的信息指導或經驗法則或它是如何運作的。在某種程度上，使這個問題變得複雜的是，從會計的角度來看，我們需要運行蒙特卡羅模擬，以從相對總股東回報的角度來看我們的業績與同業的比較。所以這是一個通配符。

So in the guidance that we've provided, what we've said is assuming there's no change in our share price from the end of September, assuming all of those metrics stay the same, here's what the impact will be. And that's the best guidance we can provide because, of course, we don't know what's going to happen from a share price perspective. And so the piece that even if our share price doesn't change from the third to the fourth quarter, as we continue to accrue a quarterly tranche of our LTIP, that now gets priced at a higher level than would have been assumed when we set our guidance at the start of the year. And so there is an impact even if your share price doesn't move from third to fourth quarter, and that's the value that we've tried to give you.

因此，在我們提供的指導中，我們所說的是假設自 9 月底以來我們的股價沒有變化，假設所有這些指標保持不變，那麼影響將會是什麼。這是我們可以提供的最佳指導，因為當然，我們不知道從股價的角度來看會發生什麼。因此，即使我們的股價從第三季到第四季沒有變化，隨著我們繼續增加 LTIP 的季度份額，現在的定價水平比我們設定時假設的水平要高我們在年初的指導。因此，即使您的股價從第三季到第四季沒有變化，也會產生影響，這就是我們試圖為您提供的價值。

Our next question comes from the line of Sabahat Khan with RBC Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自加拿大皇家銀行資本市場的 Sabahat Khan。

So you provided a bit of color on the outlook and just the demand environment. I was hoping if we could go a little bit deeper into what you might be hearing from kind of the U.S. federal state municipal customers. Like a lot of the pushback we heard from investors over the recent week has been macro related. So I was hoping you could just -- maybe give you an opportunity to share some comments on kind of some of the specifics you're hearing on the rollout of these bigger plans, kind of their ability to fund these programs. And just kind of the state of the U.S. kind of government customer relative to where it was maybe 3, 4 months ago?

所以你提供了一些關於前景和需求環境的資訊。我希望我們能更深入地了解您可能從美國聯邦州市政客戶那裡聽到的情況。就像最近一周我們從投資者那裡聽到的許多阻力一樣，都是與宏觀相關的。所以我希望你能——也許給你一個機會，分享一些關於你在推出這些更大計劃時聽到的一些具體細節的評論，以及他們為這些計劃提供資金的能力。與 3、4 個月前相比，美國政府客戶的狀況如何？

Yes. We're feeling really strong about the U.S. economy overall. You've seen where organic growth this year has been about 13% -- 12.9%. We're just kind of matching that here in the third quarter. But we still see very strong growth. When we look at some of our big markets in the U.S., water, certainly 26% organic growth in water in the quarter. And we see no slowdown in the type of work that we're doing there. Certainly, a lot related on the industrial side. We've talked about some of the advanced manufacturing facilities previously that we're working on there. We see a lot of work with the U.S. federal government from the perspective of short line resiliency type work and so on. So a lot of opportunity there. So we feel very, very strong in the water business.

是的。我們對美國經濟整體感覺非常強勁。您已經看到今年的有機成長約為 13% - 12.9%。我們只是在第三季度進行了配對。但我們仍然看到非常強勁的成長。當我們觀察美國的一些大型水市場時，本季水的有機成長肯定達到 26%。我們在那裡所做的工作類型沒有放緩。當然，這與工業方面有許多關係。我們之前已經討論過我們在那裡正在建造的一些先進製造設施。我們從短線彈性工作等角度看到與美國聯邦政府的許多合作。所以那裡有很多機會。因此，我們在水務業務方面感覺非常非常強大。

Transportation remains robust. And that's even -- as you said before, the IIJA has really started to hit, and we do expect that to be more of a tailwind for us through '24, but really, that's going to provide, once that's ramped up, strong bidding environment out to 2028 and beyond. Energy transition still very strong. We see a lot of work coming out in electrical grid strengthening. We saw just yesterday, I think it was announced a ballot initiative in Texas, several billions of dollars in electrical grid strengthening.

交通運輸依然強勁。甚至，正如您之前所說，IIJA 確實已經開始發揮作用，我們確實預計這將在 24 年期間為我們帶來更大的推動力，但實際上，一旦加速，這將提供強勁的競標2028 年及以後的環境。能源轉型仍然非常強勁。我們看到在加強電網方面有很多工作要做。就在昨天，我認為德州宣布了一項投票倡議，旨在加強電網，耗資數十億美元。

So whether it's electrical grid work, environmental work, water work, transportation work, we're just seeing very strong support in all of our businesses in the U.S. The one area that we are seeing a little bit of potential softness would be in our land development business. That's -- you've seen housing starts trending down a little bit as interest rates have gone up. So that's something we're certainly monitoring. And that's not just in the United States. We're seeing that in the U.K. as well. So it's not a significant piece of our business, but certainly something that we're watching closely. But other than that, we see very, very strong tailwinds across our business.

因此，無論是電網工作、環境工作、水務工作、交通工作，我們在美國的所有業務都得到了非常強有力的支持。我們看到的一個潛在的疲軟領域是我們的土地。開發業務。也就是說，隨著利率上升，房屋開工率略有下降。所以這肯定是我們正在監控的事情。這不僅僅是在美國。我們在英國也看到了這一點。因此，這不是我們業務的重要組成部分，但肯定是我們正在密切關注的事情。但除此之外，我們的業務也看到了非常非常強勁的推動力。

Great. And then I guess, amidst this kind of outlook, how are you thinking about staffing up whether -- I think primarily in the U.S., you've got a potentially large pipeline of demand. Are you going more with full time? Or are you looking more to go toward contract to keep some flexibility? Just -- and maybe how is the wage situation in terms of hiring engineers, consultants, et cetera?

偉大的。然後我想，在這種前景下，您如何考慮人員配備——我認為主要是在美國，您是否有大量潛在的需求。你會更全職工作嗎？或者您希望更多地簽訂合約以保持一定的靈活性？只是——也許在僱用工程師、顧問等方面的工資情況如何？

Yes. So the majority of the people that we bring on, Sab, are full-time employees. And I made a couple of comments in our -- in the prepared remarks. Firstly, that our voluntary turnover rates when people leave us have returned to pre-pandemic levels, down almost 2% in the last year. We had record hiring quarters and in terms of number of people joining us, Q3 was another record. We're hiring at roughly 2x the rate that we did before the pandemic. So we've got good work, we're bringing on good employees.

是的。因此，我們聘用的大多數人（Sab）都是全職員工。我在我們準備好的發言中發表了一些評論。首先，當人們離開我們時，我們的自願離職率已恢復到疫情前的水平，比去年下降了近 2%。我們的招募季度創下了紀錄，就加入我們的人數而言，第三季又創下了紀錄。我們的招募速度大約是疫情爆發前的兩倍。所以我們有很好的工作，我們正在培養優秀的員工。

From a salary perspective, interestingly, we're seeing salary pressures soften a bit this year from what we saw last year. Last year, we saw overall salary increases in that 4% to 4.5%-ish type range. This year, we're seeing it in that 3% to 3.5%, sometimes 4%. But certainly, we've seen that the wage inflation has moderated from an expectation perspective as we go into 2024 in our industry.

有趣的是，從薪資角度來看，今年的薪資壓力較去年緩和。去年，我們看到整體薪資漲幅在 4% 到 4.5% 左右。今年，我們看到這一比例為 3% 至 3.5%，有時為 4%。但可以肯定的是，隨著產業進入 2024 年，我們已經看到，從預期角度來看，薪資通膨已經放緩。

Great. And then maybe just one last one. If you kind of take the demand commentary, just a commentary around the labor situation. How would you think about pricing into kind of '24 and '25 relative to maybe '23? I'm not sure if that's something you're going to cover at the Investor Day, but just curious how the directional pricing environment is trending.

偉大的。然後也許只是最後一件事。如果你看一下需求評論，那就是圍繞勞動力狀況的評論。您如何看待“24”和“25”相對於“23”的定價？我不確定這是否是您要在投資者日討論的內容，但只是好奇定向定價環境的趨勢如何。

Yes. I think what -- certainly what we've seen all through 2023, when you look at our project margin and such, you see that we've been able to pass on that additional salary pressure from a fee perspective. Certainly, I think we see that being the case as we move into '24 and beyond as well that the industry is busy. People -- we certainly are being more selective in terms of the projects that we pursue, the clients that we work for. And so I think that does give us a little bit of pricing pressure -- pricing support as well, sorry. But this is still a competitive industry. No one gets to write their own check. But we are seeing that we have a little bit of ability to increase pricing as well to cover that salary increases.

是的。我認為，當然是我們在 2023 年所看到的，當你看看我們的專案利潤率等時，你會發現我們已經能夠從費用的角度轉嫁額外的薪資壓力。當然，我認為，隨著我們進入 24 世紀及以後，我們也看到該行業非常繁忙。人員－我們在我們追求的專案和我們服務的客戶方面當然會更加挑剔。所以我認為這確實給我們帶來了一點定價壓力——還有定價支持，抱歉。但這仍然是一個競爭激烈的行業。沒有人可以自己寫支票。但我們發現，我們也有一點能力提高定價，以彌補薪資成長。

Our next question is going to come from the line of Ian Gillies with Stifel.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Ian Gillies 和 Stifel。

With respect to employee utilization in the third quarter, can you get it any better than it was? Or was that kind of as good as it gets?

關於第三季的員工利用率，你能比以前更好嗎？或者說，這已經是最好的結果了嗎？

I think it can get better. There is always room to move up. And again, when you think about all the different sectors we work in, you have different levels of utilization across different business lines or geographies. So I would say that generally, there is opportunity to increase utilization.

我認為它可以變得更好。總是有上升的空間。同樣，當您考慮我們從事的所有不同行業時，您會發現不同業務線或地區的利用率有所不同。所以我想說，一般來說，有機會提高利用率。

What's really interesting about the third quarter and utilization where it was the strongest was our Water business, both in Canada, but particularly the U.S. And you saw that in our revenue growth. And that really was the product of being able to import work from -- workers from other parts of our business to help address the backlog. So I think about 100 FTEs that we used from an imported talent standpoint, we -- I think they used 50 to 60 FTEs in our Pune office, and that's really what helped to drive utilization now. But as I commented earlier, when we go into the fourth quarter, we really want to see some of those folks take a bit of time away because the utilization has been so high. And so again -- and we'll expect some of those folks that maybe have been lent into that business go back into their own businesses as they start to pick up.

第三季真正有趣的是我們的水業務，它是最強勁的利用率，無論是在加拿大，還是在美國，你都在我們的收入成長中看到了這一點。這確實是能夠從我們業務其他部門的工人那裡引進工作來幫助解決積壓問題的結果。因此，我認為從引進人才的角度來看，我們使用了 100 名全職員工，我認為他們在我們的浦那辦事處使用了 50 到 60 名全職員工，這確實有助於提高現在的利用率。但正如我之前所說，當我們進入第四季度時，我們真的希望看到其中一些人離開一些時間，因為利用率如此之高。如此反覆——我們預計，當這些企業開始復甦時，一些可能被借入該企業的人會重新回到自己的企業中。

So that mix is really, really dynamic. But it's a bit of a long answer, Ian, but I think really we were very successful and have become very successful at how we manage our workforce. And so I think overall, the ability to continue to move utilization up is certainly there.

所以這種混合真的非常動態。但這是一個有點長的答案，伊恩，但我認為我們確實非常成功，並且在管理員工隊伍方面非常成功。因此，我認為總體而言，繼續提高利用率的能力肯定是存在的。

Okay. That's quite helpful. Theresa, maybe bring you back to some of your time (inaudible). I wanted to ask about cash taxes. I know there's been some changes in the U.S., which have kept those elevated. Are you seeing anything transpiring on that front that makes you -- that could normalize or change in the future here to perhaps even improve free cash generation where it is today? Or is it pretty steady state?

好的。這很有幫助。特蕾莎，也許能讓你回到你的一些時光（聽不清楚）。我想問一下關於現金稅的問題。我知道美國發生了一些變化，導致這些數字保持在高水準。您是否看到這方面發生的任何事情使您 - 未來可能會正常化或改變，甚至可能改善今天的自由現金產生？還是相當穩定的狀態？

No. I mean, I think, cash taxes, unfortunately, has taken a step in the wrong direction, mainly because of this U.S. Section 174 to change in how they allow deductibility for your R&D costs. So I think everybody knows that up until very recently, you were able to deduct them as you incur them. And starting this year, we now have to capitalize them for tax [purposes] and are only allowed to amortize them over a 5-year period. And so what that says is to actually increase our cash taxes and until we reach kind of a 5-year time horizon where now we have 5 years of programs all rolling over together, it will take a dent out of our cash flow to a greater extent than we've seen before.

不。我的意思是，不幸的是，我認為現金稅已經朝著錯誤的方向邁出了一步，主要是因為美國第 174 條改變了研發成本的扣除方式。所以我想每個人都知道，直到最近，你還可以在產生費用時扣除它們。從今年開始，我們現在必須將它們資本化以用於稅收[目的]，並且只允許在五年內攤銷它們。因此，這就是說，實際上要增加我們的現金稅，直到我們達到 5 年的時間範圍，現在我們有 5 年的計劃全部滾動，這將減少我們的現金流，從而實現更大的目標。程度比我們之前看到的還要大。

But as you saw from our results, we continue to focus on cash flow generation and in spite of that extra bit of captives we're having to be in the U.S., we're managing to continue to strengthen our cash flow.

但正如您從我們的業績中看到的那樣，我們繼續專注於現金流的產生，儘管我們必須在美國擁有更多的自保公司，但我們正在設法繼續加強我們的現金流。

Our next question comes from the line of Maxim Sytchev with NBF.

我們的下一個問題來自 NBF 的 Maxim Sytchev。

I think you guys have recently added a Chief Technology Officer to your management roster. And I'm just wondering in terms of maybe some of the kind of the road map that this individual is going to be hoping to sort of implement especially on the digital side, I was wondering if you can give us a bit of a preview from that perspective.

我想你們最近在你們的管理名單中增加了一位技術長。我只是想知道這個人希望實施的某種路線圖，特別是在數字方面，我想知道您是否可以給我們一些預覽那個觀點。

Absolutely. We're thrilled with the individual that joined us as our Chief Technology Officer. And so that -- as we've been talking over the last couple of years about our -- some of our digital programs, whether those are internal initiatives to increase the amount of net revenue that we can generate per employee from an efficiency perspective and also externally in terms of the products that we can develop and offer for sale to our clients who are looking for them. And so we've been working through that for the last couple of years. This individual who's joined us, really his charge is to focus on both of those activities, both internal and external, working very, very closely with our current Chief Information and Security Officer who provides sort of the foundational piece, the cyber, the tool sets and then working closely with our CTO to ensure that we're focused, we're getting the highest use.

絕對地。我們對加入我們擔任首席技術長的個人感到非常興奮。因此，正如我們在過去幾年中一直在談論我們的一些數位計劃一樣，這些計劃是否是為了增加我們從效率角度來看每個員工可以產生的淨收入的內部舉措，以及在外部方面，我們可以開發並向正在尋找這些產品的客戶出售的產品。因此，過去幾年我們一直在努力解決這個問題。加入我們的這個人，實際上他的職責是專注於這些內部和外部活動，與我們現任的首席資訊和安全官非常非常密切地合作，後者提供了基礎部分、網路和工具集。然後與我們的首席技術長密切合作，確保我們專注，我們得到最高的利用。

And I think you'll see over the next couple of years, we're going to increase the amount of time and focus that we're spending on those digital products. So we're really excited about it. And I think it'll -- we'll see some really short-term benefit from that as we go into 2024 and then only strengthening in the years to come.

我想你會在接下來的幾年裡看到，我們將增加在這些數位產品上花費的時間和重點。所以我們對此感到非常興奮。我認為，當我們進入 2024 年時，我們會看到一些真正短期的好處，然後在未來幾年只會增強。

Okay. Yes. So -- and to your point, like the tools that are being kind of developed or rolled out, I presume it's -- most of the stuff is kind of [above] the shelf. So it's not like sort of super bespoke to see the results like in 2027, right?

好的。是的。所以——就你的觀點而言，就像正在開發或推出的工具一樣，我認為——大多數東西都是現成的。所以這不像 2027 年那樣是超級客製化的，對吧？

No, I think that's right. So a lot of the products that we are developing externally, for example, we already have products for sale on the Microsoft Azure marketplace that clients are going directly there to purchase and go. So we are looking at less bespoke one-off type products for a client and more of something that we can resell, offer as a software-as-a-service and generate higher margins from that, increasing the amount of nonlabor revenue that we generate there.

不，我認為這是對的。因此，我們正在外部開發的許多產品，例如，我們已經在 Microsoft Azure 市場上出售產品，客戶可以直接在那裡購買並使用。因此，我們正在為客戶尋找更少的客製化一次性產品，更多的是我們可以轉售的產品，作為軟體即服務提供，並從中產生更高的利潤，增加我們產生的非勞動力收入。在那裡。

Okay. Super helpful. And Theresa, just a quick question for you, if I may. Do you mind maybe just commenting on kind of the puts and takes of global growth outside of the U.K. just in terms of what you guys are seeing there?

好的。超有幫助。特蕾莎，請容許我問你一個簡單的問題。您是否介意僅根據您在那裡所看到的情況來評論英國以外的全球增長的情況？

Yes. So I think outside of the U.K., Australia is certainly our next biggest geography or probably actually similar in size, and if you (inaudible) New Zealand in with that, again, both performing very well. We see good growth drivers in both of those geographies. New Zealand, in particular, is an incredibly strong operation for us, albeit just under 1,000 people, they continue to perform very well. So the Water sector in both of those geographies will continue to be strong. And of course, we're very strong there. And the transportation side of things, from an infrastructure standpoint, probably still on the upswing as we've seen in the U.S. with funding promises and funds allocated. And so that growth will -- we would expect to continue to show up.

是的。因此，我認為在英國以外，澳洲肯定是我們的下一個最大的地理區域，或者實際上面積相似，如果紐西蘭（聽不清楚）也參與其中，那麼兩者都表現得非常好。我們在這兩個地區都看到了良好的成長動力。尤其是紐西蘭，對我們來說是一個非常強大的業務，儘管只有不到 1,000 名員工，但他們的表現仍然非常出色。因此，這兩個地區的水務產業將繼續保持強勁勢頭。當然，我們在那裡非常強大。從基礎設施的角度來看，交通運輸方面可能仍在上升，正如我們在美國看到的資金承諾和資金分配一樣。因此，我們預計這種增長將繼續出現。

And on the Energy & Resources side, from both the mining standpoint in Australia, the growing market for energy -- renewable energy in those geographies in Australia, again, are very strong drivers. So we feel very positive about that. So some of the smaller spaces, the Netherlands where we have an environmental services business, very good demand there. And so across the board, I think we feel that there are good drivers in each of those geographies. And again, as it gets smaller, it's a little bit harder to detect in our results. But as we've said before, it really is part of what makes our business model so resilient is how diversified we are both in terms of business line and geography.

在能源和資源方面，從澳洲採礦的角度來看，不斷成長的能源市場——澳洲這些地區的再生能源，再次是非常強大的驅動力。所以我們對此感到非常積極。因此，在荷蘭一些較小的空間，我們有環境服務業務，那裡的需求非常好。因此，總的來說，我認為我們認為每個地區都有優秀的駕駛者。而且，隨著它變得越來越小，在我們的結果中檢測到它會變得有點困難。但正如我們之前所說，我們的業務模式如此具有彈性的部分原因在於我們在業務線和地理位置方面的多元化。

Yes, 100%. And Gord, maybe just any kind of final thoughts in terms of kind of the M&A landscape? What are you seeing now?

是的，100%。戈德，也許只是關於併購前景的任何最終想法？你現在看到了什麼？

Yes. The M&A landscape, very, very busy. And we certainly are in active discussions with firms in different locations around the world. So it's robust. We're seeing multiples, not necessarily trending upwards, but not a lot of softening either over the last couple of quarters. So we're going to keep working on it, Max, we're very, very disciplined. And when we're ready to move forward, you can see that the dry powder is there, and we look forward to announcing something.

是的。併購領域非常非常繁忙。當然，我們正在與世界各地的公司進行積極的討論。所以它很堅固。我們看到，過去幾季的本益比不一定呈上升趨勢，但也沒有大幅疲軟。所以我們將繼續努力，麥克斯，我們非常非常自律。當我們準備好繼續前進時，你可以看到乾粉就在那裡，我們期待著宣布一些事情。

And I would like to turn the conference back over to Gord Johnston for closing remarks.

我想將會議轉回戈德·約翰斯頓致閉幕詞。

Great. Well, thank you again for joining us today. We're very pleased with our performance this quarter, and we look forward to rolling out our new 3-year strategic plan on December 5 in Boston, and we hope you'll be able to join us either in person or via the webcast. So goodbye, and thank you.

偉大的。好的，再次感謝您今天加入我們。我們對本季的表現非常滿意，我們期待於 12 月 5 日在波士頓推出我們新的 3 年策略計劃，我們希望您能夠親自或透過網路廣播加入我們。那麼再見，謝謝你。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。