Stem Inc (STEM) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings and welcome to the Stem Inc., fourth-quarter 2024 results conference call.

問候並歡迎參加 Stem Inc. 2024 年第四季業績電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。

It's, now, my pleasure to turn over to your host, Ted Durbin, Head of Investor Relations. Ted, please go ahead.

現在，我很高興將節目主持人、投資者關係主管泰德·德賓 (Ted Durbin) 交給大家。泰德，請繼續。

Thank you, operator. This is Ted Durbin, Head of Investor Relations at Stem. Welcome to our fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings call.

謝謝您，接線生。我是 Stem 投資者關係主管 Ted Durbin。歡迎參加我們的 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。

Before we begin, please note that some of the statements we will be making today are forward-looking. These matters involve risks and uncertainties that could cause our results to differ, materially, from those projected in these statements. We, therefore, refer you to our latest 10-K filing and other SEC filings and the supplemental materials, which can be found on our website.

在我們開始之前，請注意我們今天將要發表的一些聲明是前瞻性的。這些事項涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致我們的結果與這些聲明中預測的結果有重大差異。因此，我們請您參閱我們最新的 10-K 文件和其他 SEC 文件以及補充資料，您可以在我們的網站上找到。

Our comments today also include non-GAAP financial measures. Additional details and reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures can be found on our earnings release, which is on our website.

我們今天的評論還包括非公認會計準則財務指標。更多詳細資訊以及與最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標的對帳表可在我們網站上的收益報告中找到。

Arun Narayanan, CEO, and Doran Hole, CFO and EVP, will start the call today with prepared remarks. And, then, we will take your questions.

執行長阿倫·納拉亞南 (Arun Narayanan) 和財務長兼執行副總裁多蘭·霍爾 (Doran Hole) 將在今天的電話會議上發表準備好的演講。然後，我們將回答您的問題。

And, now, I'll turn the call over to Arun.

現在，我將電話轉給阿倫。

Thanks, Ted. Good afternoon and thank you, all, for joining us today.

謝謝，泰德。下午好，感謝大家今天的參與。

I'm excited to join Stem at a critical juncture for the company and the industry. It is a pleasure to speak with you, all, today on my first earnings call, since joining Stem.

我很高興在公司和行業的關鍵時刻加入 Stem。今天，我很高興能與大家交談，這是我加入 Stem 以來的第一次財報電話會議。

In my first five weeks as CEO, I spent time with our customers, partners, and employees. Even in this short period, I'm convinced that we have the foundation to build a truly great software company. I'm honored the Board chose me to lead the company into its next chapter.

在擔任執行長的頭五周里，我花了很多時間與我們的客戶、合作夥伴和員工在一起。即使在這短暫的時期內，我也堅信我們已經擁有創建一家真正偉大的軟體公司的基礎。我很榮幸董事會選擇我來帶領公司邁向下一篇章。

As part of the diligence process that I undertook, before I joined the company, I evaluated the overall financial potential of the company and, also, the underlying ingredients: talent, technology, and vision, to make my decision.

作為我加入公司之前所進行的盡職調查過程的一部分，我評估了公司的整體財務潛力以及基本因素：人才、技術和願景，以做出決定。

Looking at the company's competitive positioning and the broader industries' outlook, it's clear to me that the software-centric strategy, announced in the fall of 2024, is the right plan for the company's future financial success and growth.

從公司的競爭定位和更廣泛的行業前景來看，我很清楚，2024 年秋季宣布的以軟體為中心的策略是公司未來財務成功和成長的正確計劃。

I see strong offerings from Stem, a clear market need, and the opportunity to leverage emerging technologies, like AI, to address real customer challenges. That's laying the foundation for our path to profitability.

我看到了 Stem 的強大產品、明確的市場需求以及利用人工智慧等新興技術解決實際客戶挑戰的機會。這為我們實現盈利奠定了基礎。

Over the course of my career, I have built and grown digital businesses, across multiple industries around the world. The common, thread, throughout my experience, has been launching innovative software products; harnessing data analytics to improve workflows and customer productivity; and leading complex high-impact change-management initiatives, driven by technology adoption.

在我的職業生涯中，我建立並發展了全球多個行業的數位業務。在我的整個經驗中，共同的主線就是推出創新的軟體產品；利用數據分析改善工作流程和客戶生產力；並在科技採用的推動下，領導複雜且影響深遠的變革管理措施。

At the core of my experience is an understanding of the key drivers of a software business and the broader ecosystem of B2B software. Driving revenue growth, securing major customer deals, and sustaining profitability have been key achievements. I also have a strong understanding of the foundational technologies needed to build software, at scale, and modernizing our own software development processes.

我的經驗的核心是了解軟體業務的關鍵驅動因素以及 B2B 軟體的更廣泛生態系統。推動收入成長、確保主要客戶交易和保持獲利能力是關鍵成就。我還對大規模建立軟體以及現代化我們自己的軟體開發流程所需的基礎技術有深入的了解。

Innovating and introducing digital solutions to traditional capital-intensive industries is hard. And so, a lot of my experience is also centered around change management. I believe software is mission-critical for virtually every industry, including renewables. But it means embracing a new way of doing things.

創新並向傳統資本密集型行業引入數位解決方案很難。所以，我的許多經驗也都圍繞著變革管理。我相信軟體對幾乎每個產業都至關重要，包括再生能源。但這意味著要採用一種新的方式做事。

Software also needs to be combined with human expertise and an intense focus on the customer value proposition.

軟體還需要與人類的專業知識和對客戶價值主張的高度關注相結合。

Which, brings me back to Stem. I see opportunities, for us, in every direction. I'll highlight a few.

這讓我回想起了 Stem。我看到，對我們來說，各個方向都存在著機會。我將重點介紹幾點。

First, customers. We have a strong loyal base of 16,000 Solar and Storage customers. And, at the same time, that market is continuing to grow.

首先，顧客。我們擁有 16,000 名忠誠的太陽能和儲能客戶。與此同時，該市場仍在持續成長。

Second, products. Most importantly, PowerTrack, which has the trifecta of a solid domestic market share, generates high growth margins, and has growth opportunities, both domestically and internationally.

第二，產品。最重要的是，PowerTrack 在國內市場佔有穩固的份額，具有較高的成長利潤率，並且在國內和國際上都擁有成長機會。

And the third opportunity is people. We bring deep subject-matter expertise to every engagement.

第三個機會是人。我們為每一次合作帶來深厚的專業知識。

Despite our strengths, I fully recognize and acknowledge the challenges we face. Our financial results, in the recent quarters, have been disappointing. And we are taking concrete steps to improve those results.

儘管我們擁有優勢，但我充分認識並承認我們所面臨的挑戰。最近幾個季度，我們的財務表現令人失望。我們正在採取具體措施來改善這些結果。

This has been a key focal point for me. And in my initial few weeks I've identified three priorities.

這一直是我的關注重點。在最初的幾周里，我確定了三個優先事項。

Number 1, we will grow our software revenue with renewed focus on PowerTrack. Number 2, we will reduce our cost structure. And, thirdly, we will revamp our software development.

首先，我們將重新關注 PowerTrack，以增加我們的軟體收入。第二，我們將降低成本結構。第三，我們將改進我們的軟體開發。

First, as I have spent more time with customers and our team, I'm particularly impressed with PowerTrack. 13 of the top 16 commercial and industrial solar asset owners, in the US, have standardized on PowerTrack.

首先，由於我花了更多時間與客戶和我們的團隊在一起，因此 PowerTrack 給我留下了深刻的印象。在美國前 16 家商業和工業太陽能資產所有者中，已有 13 家採用 PowerTrack 標準化。

And, today, we announced that Summit Ridge Energy has standardized on PowerTrack, across its fleet of 200 solar sites, totalling 514 megawatts. I'm, also, especially excited about our international opportunities with PowerTrack, where we see significant growth potential in largely untapped markets.

今天，我們宣布 Summit Ridge Energy 已在其 200 個太陽能電站（總發電量達 514 兆瓦）中採用 PowerTrack 標準化。我也對我們與 PowerTrack 合作的國際機會特別感到興奮，我們在許多尚未開發的市場中看到了巨大的成長潛力。

In January, we announced that Neovolt, one of the largest asset owners in Hungary, will standardize on PowerTrack, for a 484-megawatt solar portfolio.

今年 1 月，我們宣布匈牙利最大的資產所有者之一 Neovolt 將採用 PowerTrack 為標準，打造 484 兆瓦的太陽能組合。

We earn 70% to 80% gross margin on the PowerTrack software and a high margin on associated offerings, such as 50% growth margin on our professional services tied to PowerTrack installation and commissioning, and 30% to 40% on PowerTrack edge devices.

我們在 PowerTrack 軟體上獲得了 70% 到 80% 的毛利率，並在相關產品上獲得了高額利潤，例如與 PowerTrack 安裝和調試相關的專業服務的增長利潤率為 50%，在 PowerTrack 邊緣設備上的增長利潤率為 30% 到 40%。

This is a high-margin business, with large and growing annual recurring revenue. It's also relatively short cycle. Unlike our legacy managed services for Storage, the time between a booking and software revenue is, often, less than six months.

這是一項高利潤的業務，每年的經常性收入龐大且不斷成長。它的周期也相對較短。與我們傳統的儲存託管服務不同，從預訂到軟體收入之間的時間通常不到六個月。

And, you can see this reflected in our 2025 guidance, where we expect continued strong growth in our software and edge device sales, this year.

您可以在我們 2025 年的指引中看到這一點，我們預計今年我們的軟體和邊緣設備銷售將繼續強勁成長。

Second, on cost savings. From an operational perspective, we expect additional cost savings of more than 20% in 2025, above and beyond the 15% reduction that we discussed on the third-quarter call. I believe that we will achieve these savings through a combination of factors including eliminating operational inefficiencies, streamlining our corporate structure, and, lastly, empowering our management teams with control over and responsibility for operational decisions.

第二，關於節約成本。從營運角度來看，我們預計 2025 年成本節省將超過 20%，高於我們在第三季電話會議上討論的 15% 的減幅。我相信，我們將透過多種因素實現這些節約，包括消除營運效率低下、精簡公司結構，以及最後授權我們的管理團隊對營運決策進行控制和負責。

Third, on our software products and roadmap, we will do the following: revamp our software development, refine the product roadmaps, and increase the use of AI in our software development and in our products. We expect these changes will have limited or no impact on our customers.

第三，在我們的軟體產品和路線圖上，我們將做以下事情：改善我們的軟體開發，完善產品路線圖，並增加人工智慧在我們的軟體開發和產品中的使用。我們預計這些變化對我們的客戶影響有限或沒有影響。

Before turning things over to Doran, for a detailed discussion of our financials and outlook, I want to emphasize the strong partnership we've already built. Doran will be a key leader in driving our transformation into a high-growth, profitable software company.

在將主題轉交給多蘭詳細討論我們的財務狀況和前景之前，我想先強調一下我們已經建立的牢固的合作關係。多蘭將成為推動我們轉型為高成長、獲利的軟體公司的關鍵領導者。

With that, let me turn the call over to Doran.

說完這些，讓我把電話轉給多蘭。

Thank you, Arun. On behalf of the Stem team, we're excited to have you on board.

謝謝你，阿倫。我代表 Stem 團隊非常高興您能加入我們。

Today, I'll cover three key items: our fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 results, 2025 guidance, and, then, updates to our operating and financial metrics.

今天，我將介紹三個關鍵內容：我們的 2024 年第四季和全年業績、2025 年指引，以及我們的營運和財務指標的更新。

Starting with the fourth quarter. Results were largely in line with the expectations we outlined during our Q3 call. We continue to expect battery hardware resales to decline, over time, as we focus on driving recurring software and services revenues.

從第四季開始。結果與我們在第三季電話會議上概述的預期基本一致。由於我們專注於推動經常性軟體和服務收入，我們預計電池硬體轉售量將隨著時間的推移而下降。

Total revenue was down, significantly, year over year, due to reduced hardware sales. But software revenue was up 6% year over year, driven by continued strong performance from PowerTrack and increased storage software activations. As Arun mentioned, we are seeing success for PowerTrack, among larger customers and internationally.

由於硬體銷量下降，總收入較去年同期大幅下降。但受PowerTrack持續強勁表現及儲存軟體活化量增加的推動，軟體營收年增了6%。正如 Arun 所提到的，我們看到 PowerTrack 在大型客戶和國際市場上取得了成功。

GAAP gross margin was down sequentially, due to a one-time impairment of deferred services, related to OEM warranty services that hit total services cost of goods sold. Non-GAAP gross margin was down sequentially in the fourth quarter but up year over year.

由於與 OEM 保固服務相關的一次性遞延服務減損影響了銷售產品總服務成本，因此 GAAP 毛利率較上季下降。第四季非公認會計準則毛利率季減，但較去年同期成長。

In general, our gross margins are influenced by the mix of battery resale revenue and software and services revenue.

整體而言，我們的毛利率會受到電池轉售收入和軟體及服務收入的組合影響。

Adjusted EBITDA and operating cash flow declined on a year-over-year basis, due to lower gross profit dollars from reduced battery hardware sales.

調整後的 EBITDA 和經營現金流較去年同期下降，原因是電池硬體銷售下降導致毛利降低。

On liquidity, we ended the year with approximately $58 million of cash.

在流動性方面，我們年底的現金約為 5800 萬美元。

As I'll discuss shortly with guidance, we expect operating cash flows to improve in 2025, including some working capital releases related to OEM hardware that we have already seen hit in the first quarter.

正如我將在稍後的指導中討論的那樣，我們預計 2025 年的營運現金流將會改善，其中包括我們在第一季度已經看到的與 OEM 硬體相關的一些營運資本釋放。

This quarter, we recorded some one-time adjustments to our current assets, approximately $38.7 million in the aggregate, related to AR reserves, impairment of inventory, and hardware deposit forfeitures with certain suppliers.

本季度，我們對流動資產進行了一些一次性調整，總計約 3,870 萬美元，與應收帳款準備金、存貨減損以及某些供應商的硬體押金沒收有關。

Turning, now, to our operating metrics.

現在來談談我們的營運指標。

Contracted backlog, CARR, and contracted storage AUM were down sequentially, as we adjusted our backlog to reflect repricing of OEM hardware and the elimination of delayed projects.

由於我們調整了積壓訂單以反映 OEM 硬體的重新定價和延遲項目的消除，合約積壓訂單、CARR 和合約儲存 AUM 均連續下降。

Operating ARR was up 3% versus the third quarter and up 19% year over year, driven by storage activations and steady PowerTrack growth.

受儲存啟動和 PowerTrack 穩定成長的推動，營業 ARR 較第三季成長 3%，較去年同期成長 19%。

Now, moving to our 2025 guidance.

現在，我們轉向 2025 年指導。

Starting with revenue, we expect to recognize between $125 million and $175 million. Of which, approximately $120 million and $140 million is expected to come from high-margin software, edge device, and services revenue.

從收入開始，我們預計將實現 1.25 億至 1.75 億美元。其中，預計約1.2億美元和1.4億美元將來自高利潤的軟體、邊緣設備和服務收入。

We expect up to $35 million of the remaining balance to be driven by battery hardware resales.

我們預計剩餘的 3500 萬美元將來自電池硬體轉售。

In general, software, edge device, and services revenue is expected to be roughly [ratable], over the balance of the year, with some slight back-end seasonality.

總體而言，預計軟體、邊緣設備和服務收入在全年餘額中大致可比，但會受到一些後端季節性的影響。

I understand that many analyst models were anticipating significantly higher battery resale revenue. We're taking a prudent approach to this portion of the business, given our strategy shift and some of the policy and funding uncertainties in the market.

據我所知，許多分析師模型都預計電池轉售收入將大幅增加。考慮到我們的策略轉變以及市場上的一些政策和資金不確定性，我們對這部分業務採取了審慎的態度。

We expect battery resale revenue to be heavily weighted toward the back-end of the year, with gross margins in the 5% to 10% range.

我們預計電池轉售收入將主要集中在年底，毛利率將在 5% 至 10% 之間。

We expect non-GAAP gross margins of 30 %to 40%, roughly in line with our gross margins in 2024. Higher battery hardware resale revenue would cause our gross margin percentage to trend lower, although we would benefit from more gross profit dollars.

我們預期非 GAAP 毛利率為 30% 至 40%，與 2024 年的毛利率大致一致。儘管我們將從更多的毛利中受益，但更高的電池硬體轉售收入會導致我們的毛利率百分比下降。

We expect adjusted EBITDA of negative $10 million to positive $5 million and operating cash flow of $0 to $15 million.

我們預計調整後的 EBITDA 為負 1,000 萬美元至正 500 萬美元，營運現金流為 0 至 1,500 萬美元。

As Arun mentioned, we expect to reduce run rate cash OpEx by more than 20% during 2025, relative to our 2024 exit rate, to achieve these targets.

正如 Arun 所提到的，為了實現這些目標，我們預計 2025 年的現金營運支出運行率將相對於 2024 年的退出率降低 20% 以上。

As I mentioned, during the first quarter, we expect working capital releases, related to OEM hardware, to, also, drive an improvement in operating cash flow.

正如我所提到的，在第一季度，我們預計與 OEM 硬體相關的營運資本釋放也將推動營運現金流的改善。

For the first time, we are providing guidance on operating ARR. Our revised strategy is built on driving recurring and predictable software and services revenues. And we see ARR as a key metric for tracking our progress, which is also in line with other publicly-traded software-focused businesses.

我們首次提供有關營運 ARR 的指導。我們修訂後的策略建立在推動經常性和可預測的軟體和服務收入的基礎上。我們將 ARR 視為追蹤進度的關鍵指標，這也與其他以軟體為重點的上市公司的業務一致。

With that in mind, we expect 15% ARR growth, at the midpoint, from year end 2024 to year end 2025, with a range of $55 million to $65 million. As we continue to evolve our business, in line with our new strategy, we are rolling out new and redefined metrics that we believe will help stakeholders better understand and forecast our results.

考慮到這一點，我們預計 2024 年底至 2025 年底的中期 ARR 成長率為 15%，範圍在 5,500 萬美元至 6,500 萬美元之間。隨著我們按照新策略不斷發展業務，我們正在推出新的和重新定義的指標，我們相信這些指標將有助於利害關係人更好地理解和預測我們的結果。

Commencing with the first-quarter 2025 earnings call, we will be making several adjustments, which are outlined, in detail, in our supplemental materials. Key among those are changes to reported backlog, CARR, and ARR, and storage operating AUM.

從 2025 年第一季財報電話會議開始，我們將進行幾項調整，這些調整在我們的補充資料中有詳細概述。其中最關鍵的是報告積壓訂單、CARR、ARR 和儲存營運 AUM 的變化。

We are redefining backlog as all contracted hardware and professional services revenues, where we have a fully executed purchase order from a customer. Backlog will exclude software and software-related managed services. That revenue will be captured in CARR and ARR.

我們正在將積壓訂單重新定義為所有合約硬體和專業服務收入，其中我們已從客戶那裡獲得完全執行的採購訂單。Backlog 將不包括與軟體和軟體相關的託管服務。該收入將計入CARR和ARR。

We plan to disclose a consolidated ARR, which will include a breakdown of Solar and Storage.

我們計劃披露合併 ARR，其中將包括太陽能和儲能的細目分類。

Much like backlog, CARR includes ARR and future revenues, where we have a fully-executed purchase order from a customer.

與積壓訂​​單非常相似，CARR 包括 ARR 和未來收入，我們有一個來自客戶的完全執行的採購訂單。

Finally, we will begin disclosing storage operating AUM. Our storage software revenue generally commences when a system is activated. So this metric gives you better visibility into our revenue-generating AUM.

最後，我們將開始揭露儲存營運 AUM。我們的儲存軟體收入通常在系統啟動時開始。因此，這個指標可以讓您更了解我們創造收入的AUM。

Finally, as you know, we received a notice from the New York Stock Exchange, in August 2024, that we were out of compliance with listing standards, due to our average share price falling below $1, over a 30-day trading period.

最後，如您所知，2024 年 8 月，我們收到紐約證券交易所的通知，由於我們的平均股價在 30 天的交易期間內跌破 1 美元，我們不符合上市標準。

As we explained in our earnings press release, our Board of Directors has approved, subject to a stockholder vote, a potential range on a reverse stock split, which would bring us back into compliance with NYSE listing standards.

正如我們在收益新聞稿中所解釋的那樣，我們的董事會已批准了反向股票分割的潛在範圍，但須經股東投票，這將使我們重新符合紐約證券交易所的上市標準。

Now, I'll pass it back to Arun for closing remarks.

現在，我將發言交還給阿倫，請他作最後發言。

In closing, I want to thank the Stem employees for their continued strong execution to support our customers.

最後，我要感謝 Stem 員工持續大力支持我們的客戶。

I remain bullish on the strength of PowerTrack's growth and associated margins. I also believe that we can effectively manage our cost structure.

我仍然看好 PowerTrack 的成長實力和相關利潤率。我也相信我們可以有效地管理我們的成本結構。

The strength of our offering, ultimately, depends on our people. And I believe we have some of the best in the business.

我們的服務實力最終取決於我們的員工。我相信我們擁有業界最優秀的人才。

With that, operator, let's open the line for questions, please.

接線員，請允許我們打開熱線來回答問題。

Certainly. Now, I'll be conducting a question-and-answer session.

當然。現在，我將主持問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Thomas Boyes, TD Cowen.

托馬斯·博伊斯（Thomas Boyes），TD Cowen。

Appreciate you taking the questions.

感謝您回答這些問題。

Maybe, just, first one for me. It was just around a PowerBidder -- which wasn't in your prepared remarks -- and I was just wondering if you could comment on that offering? And, maybe, how you think that product fits into your overall broader strategy, that's led with PowerTrack?

也許，對我來說，這只是第一個。這只是關於 PowerBidder 的 - 這不在您準備好的發言中 - 我只是想知道您是否可以對該產品發表評論？並且，也許，您認為該產品如何融入以 PowerTrack 為主導的整體更廣泛策略？

Okay. Thank you very much for your question.

好的。非常感謝您的提問。

Look, the software strategy pivot that we announced, in the previous quarter, obviously, has (inaudible) looking at a variety of technologies that we would build to address different market needs.

你看，我們在上一季宣布的軟體策略轉型顯然已經（聽不清楚）考慮了我們將建立的各種技術來滿足不同的市場需求。

PowerBidder Pro is part of that offering. And, currently, we have one customer looking and using it, actively. We are evaluating additional use cases. And we continue to search for new customers, as well.

PowerBidder Pro 是該產品的一部分。目前，我們有一位客戶正在積極關注和使用它。我們正在評估其他用例。我們也在繼續尋找新客戶。

Got it. That's helpful.

知道了。這很有幫助。

And, then, maybe, could you just walk us through for the elimination of some of the delayed projects that was in the backlog?

那麼，也許您能引導我們如何消除一些積壓的延期項目嗎？

One of the reasons for those projects being delayed is it, just, continued challenges around those projects getting interconnection or the developers, there, not being able to secure transformers or just cost diverges from EPC weight increases. What was the impact there?

這些專案被推遲的原因之一是，這些專案在互連方面持續面臨挑戰，或者開發商無法確保變壓器的安全，或成本與 EPC 權重增加存在差異。那裡有什麼影響？

Well, I appreciate you answering the question before I actually have a chance to answer the question.

好吧，我很感激你在我真正有機會回答這個問題之前就回答了這個問題。

The truth is it is a little bit of a kitchen sink. We haven't seen any new factors enter into the equation. But this was a process whereby, we felt like a number of these bookings were feeling stale; developers were having continued delays, facing increased development costs, associated with delays in interconnection and permitting, et cetera. And we (technical difficulty) conservative step to clean that up.

事實是，它有點像廚房水槽。我們尚未看到任何新因素進入這個方程式。但在這個過程中，我們感覺到很多預訂都變得陳舊了；開發商的進度持續拖延，面臨開發成本增加、互聯互通和許可延遲等問題。我們 (技術難度) 採取保守的措施來解決這個問題。

Got it.

知道了。

And if I could just sneak one more in, just for the battery hardware resale -- for $35 million, for this year, do we think of that more of, like, a steady state ongoing, as something that's just always on offer? Or in 2026 or something, does that eventually just move to zero and phases out, as the new strategy takes over?

如果我可以再偷偷加一個，只是為了電池硬體轉售——今年的價格為 3500 萬美元，我們是否認為這更像是一種持續的穩定狀態，是一種一直在提供的東西？或者在 2026 年左右，隨著新策略的實施，這一數字是否最終會降至零並逐步消失？

In looking at and when we start talking about backlog with POs issued, what we're doing with hardware is we are going to pivot to this opportunistic -- it meets all the financial criteria, particular situation where we can carry through software services revenue and attach that to hardware deal. And we may continue to see some element of hardware, going forward.

當我們開始討論已發出採購訂單的積壓問題時，我們對硬體所做的就是轉向這種機會主義——它滿足所有財務標準，特定情況是我們可以透過軟體服務收入並將其附加到硬體交易中。未來我們可能會繼續看到一些硬體元素。

However, it is, certainly, not the focus that it was. So I wouldn't necessarily place a run rate on it, in the sense that we're giving this almost $0 to $35 million, for 2025.

然而，這肯定不是原來的焦點。因此，我不會對其設定一個運行率，我們給出的 2025 年的運行率幾乎為 000 到 3500 萬美元。

We'll give similar indications, if we see numbers that are going to be very different from that, in the same cadence as we did for 2025.

如果我們看到的數字與此有很大不同，我們也會以與 2025 年相同的節奏給予類似的指示。

Excellent. I appreciate --

出色的。我很感激--

Keep in mind that the margin, there, is relatively low. Our focus, here, is on profitability.

請記住，那裡的利潤相對較低。在這裡，我們的重點是獲利能力。

Those are opportunistic chances to increase gross profit dollars and bring cash in the door. They don't represent the long-term strategy of the business to build recurring software and services revenues.

這些都是增加毛利和帶來現金的機會。它們並不代表企業建立經常性軟體和服務收入的長期策略。

Understood. Got it.

明白了。知道了。

Justin Clare, Roth MKM.

賈斯汀·克萊爾（Justin Clare），羅斯 MKM。

Hi. Thanks for the time, here.

你好。感謝您抽出時間。

I wanted to start out, just, with the new metrics. I'm looking at slide 9, here, where you have the bookings, $38 million; contracted backlog, $21 million.

我只是想從新的指標開始。我正在看第 9 張投影片，這裡是您的預訂金額，3,800 萬美元；合約積壓訂單2100萬美元。

Wondering if you could just help us understand a little bit more of the difference between -- if we look at slide 13, we see $358 million of bookings; contracted backlog of $1.2 billion.

想知道您是否可以幫助我們更多地了解兩者之間的差異——如果我們看第 13 張投影片，我們會看到 3.58 億美元的預訂量；合約未完成訂單12億美元。

So is the difference that the new metrics represent fully-executed purchase orders and that's the gap? Maybe, just help us walk through the difference, here.

那麼，新指標所代表的是否為完全執行的採購訂單，這就是差距呢？也許，只是在這裡幫助我們了解差異。

Yeah. I think we did go through the exercise of reducing the backlog, under the old definitions, even through some of the contracts that were somewhat stale.

是的。我認為，我們確實按照舊的定義減少了積壓工作，甚至減少了一些已經過時的合約。

But, when we look to the new metric, it is really focusing in on that fully-executed purchase order criteria, for purposes of treating something as a booking or going into the backlog.

但是，當我們查看新指標時，它實際上關注的是完全執行的採購訂單標準，目的是將某件事視為預訂或進入積壓狀態。

Again, the backlog, the contracted backlog metric, combined with the CARR metric, are intended to give you full visibility on all of our revenue sources that are coming into the company, in the future. And, therefore, you'll see contracted backlog containing anything related to hardware and anything related to one-time non-recurring services.

再次強調，積壓訂單、合約積壓訂單指標與 CARR 指標結合，旨在讓您全面了解未來公司的所有收入來源。因此，您將看到合約積壓包含與硬體相關的任何內容以及與一次性非經常性服務相關的任何內容。

Whereas, CARR will contain everything related to recurring software and services.

而CARR將包含與重複軟體和服務相關的一切。

I see.

我懂了。

So the contracted backlog, the $21 million, does not include recurring revenue, in there, for software? Is that right?

那麼，合約積壓訂單（2,100 萬美元）中不包括軟體的經常性收入嗎？是嗎？

That's correct. That's absolutely correct. We're segregating that between CARR and contracted backlog.

沒錯。完全正確。我們將其分為 CARR 和合約積壓訂單。

Same rule. In order to be included, we have to have an executed PO from a customer.

同樣的規則。為了納入其中，我們必須擁有客戶的已執行採購訂單。

Okay. Got it.

好的。知道了。

And, then, just one more -- looking at the same -- slide 9 -- the storage operating AUM, going from 800-megawatt hours to 1.8-gigawatt hours, through the course of 2024 -- some pretty significant growth, there.

然後，再看一張投影片 9，儲存營運 AUM 將從 800 兆瓦時增加到 1.8 千兆瓦時，到 2024 年將實現相當顯著的成長。

We didn't see a corresponding jump in the software revenue, associated with storage. Wondering if you could just help us understand why we didn't see that increase?

我們沒有看到與儲存相關的軟體收入出現相應的增長。想知道您是否可以幫助我們理解為什麼我們沒有看到這種增長？

Oh. Sorry.

哦。對不起。

I think we had a one-time reduction in fourth-quarter software revenue, associated with the SPE deals that probably caused that disparity. I think that's probably the best way to answer that question.

我認為我們第四季度的軟體收入出現了一次性減少，這可能與 SPE 交易有關，導致了這種差異。我認為這可能是回答該問題的最佳方式。

Okay. I appreciate it. I'll pass it on.

好的。我很感激。我會傳達的。

Thanks, Justin.

謝謝，賈斯汀。

Ameet Thakkar, BMO Capital Markets.

BMO 資本市場的 Ameet Thakkar。

Hi. Good afternoon.

你好。午安.

Just few questions for me. The cash in equivalent, of $56 million -- I was just wondering if you could level-set us on what's the minimum amount of cash you, guys, can go forward with, with the 2025 plan, before you have to think about it and external financing?

我只想問幾個問題。相當於 5,600 萬美元的現金——我只是想知道，在考慮外部融資之前，您是否可以給我們定一個標準，即您可以推進 2025 計劃的最低現金額是多少？

The cash balance at the end of the year -- I think, as we've put forth in the guidance that we expect operating cash flow to be somewhere between $0 and 15 million, for the year. What that means is that that cash balance is sufficient to keep us going.

年末的現金餘額——我認為，正如我們在指引中提出的那樣，我們預計今年的營運現金流將在 0 至 1500 萬美元之間。這意味著現金餘額足以維持我們營運。

We're not facing any huge cyclicality, associated with that. And I think, as I mentioned in my comments, we've already seen some releases on working capital that was tied up in some of the OEM hardware deals so we feel comfortable with where we're sitting.

我們並沒有面臨與此相關的任何巨大的周期性影響。而且我認為，正如我在評論中提到的那樣，我們已經看到了與一些 OEM 硬體交易相關的營運資金的釋放，因此我們對目前的狀況感到滿意。

And, Doran, if I can add to that. I think, in line with that, just to make sure that we continue to be operationally diligent on costs -- I think reduces our squeeze and keeps us running with that cash margin.

另外，多蘭，我可以補充一點。我認為，與此相符的是，只要確保我們在營運上繼續努力控製成本——我認為這會減少我們的壓力，並讓我們在現金保證金下繼續營運。

Okay. Understood.

好的。明白了。

And, then, not to belabor this point but I just -- going back to slide 5 and the change in the backlog, I think, at the end of your strategic review, sometime in November, the backlog was $1.6 billion. And, here, it's [evicted] to $1.2 billion.

然後，我不想過多地強調這一點，但我只是——回到幻燈片 5 和積壓的變化，我認為，在您的戰略審查結束時，也就是 11 月的某個時候，積壓金額為 16 億美元。而這裡的資金已經達到 12 億美元了。

I appreciate some of the commentary earlier and some of the verbiage here, but, like, was the backlog not scrubbed, as part of the strategic review? Trying to understand: Has the operating conditions continued to change, amongst the segment of developers that you target?

我很欣賞之前的一些評論和這裡的一些措辭，但是，作為戰略審查的一部分，積壓工作不是已經清理了嗎？試著了解：在您所針對的開發商群體中，營運條件是否持續改變？

I'm going to stick with the -- post-strategic review, we did do some significant additional scrubbing in the backlog. And that was where I was commenting on -- some of the deals that we decided to just kind of pull.

我將堅持——後戰略審查，我們確實對積壓工作進行了一些重要的額外清理。這就是我所評論的——我們決定進行的一些交易。

When you think about our funnel of business, that business isn't necessarily going away, it's just simply that we didn't feel confident in keeping it in the backlog. And, then, the next step was actually removing a number of projects that are continued to be under discussion but the PO issuance is pending.

當你思考我們的業務管道時，你會發現那些業務並不一定會消失，只是我們沒有信心將其保留在積壓訂單中。然後，下一步實際上是刪除一些仍在討論但採購訂單尚未簽發的項目。

And we made the definitive change to the definition of backlog as POs -issued, which meant removing those, as well, from the backlog.

我們對積壓訂單的定義進行了明確的改變，即已發出的採購訂單，這意味著也要將這些訂單從積壓訂單中刪除。

Those two things, in combination, would probably be the biggest items to bridge what was the old backlog to what is the new backlog. And I think, going forward, my expectation is to be able to provide you with a more predictable number, using that PO-issued, fully-executed PO metric.

這兩件事結合起來，可能成為彌合舊積壓和新積壓的最大障礙。我認為，展望未來，我的期望是能夠使用採購訂單發布的、完全執行的採購訂單指標為您提供更可預測的數字。

I'm sorry if this is a silly question but of the updated backlog figure for year end 2024, can we surmise that all of that has POs issued against it?

抱歉，這是一個愚蠢的問題，但根據 2024 年底更新的積壓數據，我們能否推測所有這些都有針對其發出的採購訂單？

Bear with me one second. The updated backlog for the (multiple speakers)

請稍等片刻。更新後的待辦事項（多位發言者）

You're talking about the $20 million, the 21 million? Or are you talking about the --

您說的是 2000 萬美元，還是 2100 萬美元？或者您在談論--

No. The $1.2 billion, on slide 5.

不。12 億美元，請見投影片 5。

The $1.2 billion does not have (multiple speakers). That is that is the backlog under the old definition, not the new definition.

12 億美元並沒有（多位發言者）。也就是說，這是舊定義下的積壓，而不是新定義下的積壓。

So of that, you got $21 million, with POs issued.

因此，您獲得了 2100 萬美元，並已發出採購訂單。

Got it. Thank you. Understood.

知道了。謝謝。明白了。

Dylan Nassano, Wolfe Research.

沃爾夫研究公司的 Dylan Nassano。

Hey. Good afternoon, everyone. And, welcome, Arun.

嘿。大家下午好。歡迎阿倫。

Hi.

你好。

Just want to go back to the 2025 outlook. So when I take a step back and I look at the revenue and the adjusted gross margin, specifically, it, like, winds up pretty similar similarly to 2024 actual.

只是想回顧 2025 年的展望。因此，當我退一步來看看收入和調整後的毛利率時，具體來說，它最終與 2024 年的實際情況非常相似。

So if you're bridging between 2024 and 2025, would you say those operating cost reductions are the big driver of the delta? And can you just give us an idea of, specifically, where can you find some of those savings?

因此，如果您將 2024 年與 2025 年聯繫起來，您是否會說這些營運成本的降低是推動增量的主要因素？您能否具體告訴我們，從哪裡可以找到這些節省？

Yeah. I can talk to it a little bit.

是的。我可以和它聊一會兒。

One thing that you refer to is the operational cost savings and trying to make sure that we eliminate some of the inefficiencies that might exist.

您提到的一件事是節省營運成本並試圖確保我們消除可能存在的一些低效率。

For example, some of the software applications might be duplicated or some of the tools, that we might be using, are quite expensive. But we also want to try to bring some of the other costs down in our software development production and in runtime cloud computing costs, for example.

例如，某些軟體應用程式可能會重複，或者我們可能使用的某些工具非常昂貴。但我們還想嘗試降低軟體開發生產和運行時雲端運算成本等其他成本。

So these types of operational efficiencies will help us, on the one hand. But, on the other hand, we continue to be quite focused on growth. And this is a growth story centered around PowerTrack and other software applications that we have. So that's a combination of the two things that we're trying to achieve.

一方面，這些類型的營運效率將對我們有所幫助。但另一方面，我們仍然十分關注成長。這是一個圍繞著 PowerTrack 和我們擁有的其他軟體應用程式的成長故事。這就是我們試圖實現的兩件事的結合。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

And, then, as a follow-up, apologies if I missed this. But can you just speak to what your expectations are, for seasonality for 2025, in terms of both revenue and EBITDA?

然後，作為後續，如果我錯過了這一點，請原諒。但是，您能否談談您對 2025 年收入和 EBITDA 季節性的預期？

The software and services is fairly [ratable], with a little bit of back-half seasonality to it.

軟體和服務相當可觀，且有一點下半年的季節性因素。

The hardware piece -- the up $35 million -- you should expect that to be toward the back-half of the year. Possibly, even Q4.

硬體部分——增加的 3500 萬美元——預計在今年下半年完成。有可能，甚至是第四季。

Okay. Thanks. I'll take the rest of my questions offline.

好的。謝謝。我將離線處理其餘問題。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Joseph Osha, Guggenheim Partners.

古根漢合夥人公司的約瑟夫‧奧沙 (Joseph Osha)。

Hi. Thanks for taking my question.

你好。感謝您回答我的問題。

I'm trying to understand, competitively, how I should think about Power Tack and how it's positioned, relative to the software offerings from the tracker companies, in particular? Because they talk a lot about, at least, some of the functionality you're talking about here.

我想了解，從競爭角度來看，我應該如何看待 Power Tack 以及它相對於追蹤器公司提供的軟體產品的定位？因為他們至少談論了很多您在此處談論的一些功能。

So is PowerTrack directly competitive with the offerings from Array and Nextracker? Or should I think of it as more complimentary?

那麼 PowerTrack 是否與 Array 和 Nextracker 的產品直接競爭？或者我該認為它更具補充性？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Hey, Joe. It's Doran. I'll take a take a first stab at that.

嘿，喬。是多蘭。我將首先嘗試一下。

The tracker companies are largely focused on front of the meter. That's step 1, right?

追蹤公司主要關注的是電錶前端。這是第一步，對吧？

And optimization of tracking software is -- I believe it's going to be case-by-case but we do not believe our front-of-the-meter edge device and software solutions are in direct competition with what the tracker companies are doing, necessarily.

我相信，追蹤軟體的優化將視具體情況而定，但我們不認為我們的儀表前端設備和軟體解決方案必然與追蹤器公司所做的事情直接競爭。

The large market share that we have, as you know, is in the behind-the-meter sector. And so, as we see the front-of-the-meter as a growth engine for PowerTrack and the related edge devices, I think that we're likely to see that expansion, irrespective of whether we're going after fixed tilt or tracker type of applications.

如您所知，我們的巨大市場份額是在電錶後領域。因此，由於我們將電錶前端視為 PowerTrack 和相關邊緣設備的成長引擎，我認為我們很可能會看到這種擴展，無論我們追求的是固定傾斜還是追蹤器類型的應用。

As you know that trackers aren't on every utility scale application, especially when you look in Europe. And so, I think it's going to be circumstantial, in some instances. But, broadly speaking, I think what we're offering is to a bigger market than what the tracker software is trying to go after.

如您所知，追蹤器並不存在於每個公用事業規模的應用程式中，尤其是在歐洲。所以，我認為在某些情況下，這將是偶然的。但從廣義上講，我認為我們所提供的產品比追蹤軟體試圖瞄準的市場更大。

And, maybe, just to add that, Doran.

也許，只是補充一下，多蘭。

Just to supplement the intention of your question, though, which is the differentiation in the competitive space. The ability for PowerTrack to solve the problem, holistically.

只是為了補充你問題的目的，也就是競爭領域的差異化。PowerTrack 全面解決問題的能力。

Getting the data from the edge devices, the data connection needed to make the edge devices come online; and the ability to do analysis, as well as making sure that the software works as expected -- that whole life cycle is very unique.

從邊緣設備取得數據，使邊緣設備上線所需的數據連接；以及進行分析的能力，以及如何確保軟體能如預期運作——整個生命週期都非常獨特。

And that is a significant differentiation for PowerTrack that we have.

這是我們 PowerTrack 的一個顯著差異。

So should I -- just to amplify that a bit. Obviously, behind-the-meter is behind-the-meter. But when I think about front-of-the-meter, I should think about PowerTrack, perhaps, hitting more, like, commercial scale systems? Or this is something you're going to go try to sell to 200-megawatt solar farms? Or what?

我也應該如此 — — 只是稍微強調一下。顯然，電錶後面就是電錶後面。但是當我考慮電網前端時，我應該考慮 PowerTrack，也許它可以涵蓋更多的商業規模系統？或者這是您要嘗試出售給 200 兆瓦太陽能發電場的產品？或者什麼？

I think our sector for the low-hanging fruit, for us, on the front-of-the-meter, Joe, is going to be anywhere from call it 20 to 100, not the 200 or 500s.

我認為，對我們來說，在電錶前端的低垂果實區域，喬，將是所謂的 20 到 100，而不是 200 或 500。

Okay. Thank you very much.

好的。非常感謝。

Thanks, Joe.

謝謝，喬。

Kashy Harrison, Piper Sandler.

卡西·哈里森，派珀·桑德勒。

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question.

午安.感謝您回答我的問題。

Maybe, first one, for me, is on the 2025 guidance. If I'm looking at this, correctly, I think -- just gross profit, less EBITDA, looks like cash OpEx is about $55 million. But, if I look at slide 14, 4Q cash OpEx is $36 million.

也許，對我來說，第一個是關於 2025 年的指導。如果我正確地看待這個問題的話，我認為——僅毛利減去 EBITDA，看起來現金營運支出約為 5500 萬美元。但是，如果我看第 14 張投影片，第四季的現金營運支出為 3,600 萬美元。

So that implies a pretty big drop from what you were doing in 4Q to what you're expecting in 2025. So can you, maybe, just help us reconcile how to bridge the gap? And, maybe, how to think about the cadence of OpEx, over the course of 2025?

所以這意味著從第四季的結果到 2025 年的預期會有相當大的下降。那你能不能幫我們想辦法彌補差距？也許，您該如何看待 2025 年期間 OpEx 的節奏？

The first -- I think that, in 2024, there's certainly some non-cash OpEx to consider. When you move to 2025, I would say that, with an overall expectation of decrease, as we continue through the year, we'll see our run rate continue to go down versus, perhaps, what we might see in Q1.

首先，我認為，到 2024 年，肯定會有一些非現金營運支出需要考慮。當進入 2025 年時，我想說，總體預期是下降，隨著這一年的延續，我們將看到我們的運行率繼續下降，或許與我們在第一季看到的情況相比。

As we've talked about the moves that we're going to make in order to increase operational efficiencies, those will continue to roll-out, internally, here, over the course of the year.

正如我們所討論的為提高營運效率我們將採取的措施，這些措施將在今年內繼續在內部推行。

So you would see, naturally, the run rate, drop, over time.

因此，您自然會看到，隨著時間的推移，運行率會下降。

Got it. Okay.

知道了。好的。

And, then, maybe, a follow-up. In terms of scale, you have 1.8-gigawatt hours, here, on the storage side and (inaudible) gigawatt on the solar side. How do we think about the ability of this company to grow? Because, certainly, at these levels, you're EBITDA neutral.

然後，也許還會有後續行動。就規模而言，這裡有 1.8 千兆瓦時的儲存量和（聽不清楚）千兆瓦的太陽能。我們如何看待這家公司的成長能力？因為，當然，在這些層面上，你的 EBITDA 是中性的。

But to get to, like, $100 million of EBITDA, for example, how do we think about the level of scale that's required, here, and then the go-to-market associated with that?

但是，例如，為了達到 1 億美元的 EBITDA，我們如何考慮這裡所需的規模水平，以及與之相關的市場進入？

Look, you're asking questions a little bit out in the future. But it's going back to the software strategy or the software-centric strategy that was announced, last quarter.

你看，你問的問題有些超越未來了。但它又回到了上個季度宣布的軟體策略或以軟體為中心的策略。

The growth for software comes with a different type of scaling. It's not linear. And the ability for us to use the investment to build differentiated IP and, then, deploy it into different markets, comes with standard-established models that you are already familiar with.

軟體的成長伴隨著不同類型的擴展。它不是線性的。我們能夠利用投資來建立差異化 IP，然後將其部署到不同的市場，而這一切都歸功於大家已經熟悉的標準模型。

We will incur costs in sales. We'll incur costs in support. But not in manufacturing the software, itself.

我們將在銷售中產生成本。我們將承擔支援費用。但軟體本身的製造卻並非如此。

We do have reliance on edge boxes. So that will complete the overall supply chain that we would need to scale.

我們確實依賴邊緣框。這樣就可以完成我們需要擴展的整個供應鏈。

But, I mean -- it's a great question. And if we'll get to that point, it'll be amazing.

但是，我的意思是——這是一個很好的問題。如果我們能夠達到這個目標，那就太了不起了。

And that's the journey that we're on.

這就是我們正在進行的旅程。

And, I think that, Kashy, we will have to continue to communicate about the growth of the business in the front-of-the-meter versus behind-the -meter because, obviously, ASPs and the amount of revenue per megawatt is a little bit different, when you look at those sectors.

Kashy，我認為我們必須繼續溝通電網前業務和電網後業務的成長情況，因為很明顯，當你看這些領域時，平均銷售價格和每兆瓦的收入金額會有點不同。

And that's a growth engine we expect to continue to try to push on the PowerTrack side, especially. As well as new products -- is out into that European market, the front-of-the-meter market.

這是一個成長引擎，我們預計將繼續努力推動它，尤其是在 PowerTrack 方面。以及新產品－進入歐洲市場，即電力表前端市場。

And so, we'll continue to keep our eyes on those metrics as operating AUM -- but, again, one of the reasons why we're focused on operating AUM is because that's really where the revenue comes.

因此，我們將繼續關注營運 AUM 等指標——但是，我們關注營運 AUM 的原因之一是因為這才是真正的收入來源。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Thanks, Kashy.

謝謝，Kashy。

Thank you. We reached the end of our question-and-answer session.

謝謝。我們的問答環節已經結束。

Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude today's teleconference webcast.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議網路直播到此結束。

You may disconnect your minds, at this time. Have a wonderful day.

此時，你們可以放下彼此的思緒。祝您有美好的一天。

We thank you for your participation, today.

我們感謝您今天的參與。