STAAR Surgical Co (STAA) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the STAAR surgical fourth-quarter and fiscal 2024 earnings webcast. As a reminder, this event is being recorded today, Tuesday, February 11, 2025. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to introduce your host, Brian Moore, Vice President of Investor Relations with STAAR Surgical.

大家好，歡迎收聽 STAAR 外科第四季和 2024 財年財報網路廣播。提醒一下，該事件的記錄日期是今天，即 2025 年 2 月 11 日，星期二。（操作員指示）現在，我想介紹您的主持人，STAAR Surgical 的投資者關係副總裁 Brian Moore。

Thank you, moderator. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us to discuss the company's financial results for the fourth-quarter and fiscal year end of December 27, 2024. Today's speakers are Tom Frinzi, Chair of the Board and CEO; and Patrick Williams, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝主持人。大家下午好，感謝您加入我們討論公司截至 2024 年 12 月 27 日第四季和財年的財務業績。今天的發言者是董事會主席兼首席執行官 Tom Frinzi；以及首席財務官帕特里克·威廉姆斯（Patrick Williams）。

The press release of our fourth-quarter and fiscal-year results was issued just after 4:00 PM Eastern Time. We have posted copies of today's earnings release and earnings presentation to the investor relations section of STAAR's website at investors.staar.com.

我們的第四季和財年業績新聞稿是在美國東部時間下午 4 點之後發布的。我們已將今天的收益報告和收益介紹的副本發佈到 STAAR 網站 investors.staar.com 的投資者關係部分。

Before we begin, let me quickly remind you that the company comments during this call will include forward-looking statements. We caution you that any statement that is not a statement of historical fact is a forward-looking statement. This includes remarks about the company's projections, expectations, plans, beliefs, and prospects. These statements are based on judgment and analysis as of the date of this conference call and are subject to numerous important risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements.

在我們開始之前，請允許我快速提醒您，本次電話會議中的公司評論將包括前瞻性陳述。我們提醒您，任何非歷史事實陳述都是前瞻性陳述。這包括對公司的預測、期望、計劃、信念和前景的評論。這些陳述是基於本次電話會議之日的判斷和分析，並受許多重要風險和不確定因素的影響，這些風險和不確定因素可能導致實際結果與此類前瞻性陳述表達或暗示的結果有重大差異。

The risk and uncertainties associated with these forward-looking statements are described in the Safe Harbor statement in today's press release, as well as STAAR's public periodic filings with the SEC.

這些前瞻性聲明所涉及的風險和不確定性在今天的新聞稿中的安全港聲明以及 STAAR 向美國證券交易委員會提交的定期公開文件中有所描述。

Except as required by law, STAAR seems no obligation to update these forward-looking statements to reflect future events or actual outcomes and does not intend to do so.

除法律要求外，STAAR 似乎沒有義務更新這些前瞻性聲明以反映未來事件或實際結果，也不打算這樣做。

In addition, on this call and in the press release, we discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures, including adjusted EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA per share. We also provide sales data in constant currency. Definitions and reconciliations to GAAP are included in today's press release.

此外，在本次電話會議和新聞稿中，我們討論了某些非 GAAP 財務指標，包括調整後的 EBITDA 和調整後的每股 EBITDA。我們也提供以固定匯率計算的銷售數據。今天的新聞稿中包含了定義和與 GAAP 的調整。

For brevity, unless otherwise specified, all comparisons on today's call will be on a year-over-year basis versus the relevant period. Following our prepared remarks, we will open the webcast to questions from publishing analysts. (Operator Instructions)

為簡潔起見，除非另有說明，今天電話會議上的所有比較都將以相關時期的同比為基礎。在我們準備好發言之後，我們將透過網路直播接受出版分析師的提問。（操作員指令）

Finally, we intend to use our website as a means of disclosing material nonpublic information and for complying with our disclosure obligations under Regulation FD. Such disclosures will be included on our website in the Investor Relations section. Accordingly, investors should monitor our investor website in addition to following our press releases, SEC filings and public conference calls and webcast. And with that, I would now like to turn the presentation over to Tom Frinzi. Tom?

最後，我們打算將我們的網站作為揭露重大非公開資訊和遵守公平揭露規則規定的揭露義務的一種手段。此類披露將在我們網站的「投資者關係」部分中公佈。因此，投資者除了關注我們的新聞稿、美國證券交易委員會文件和公開電話會議和網路廣播外，還應關注我們的投資者網站。現在，我想將演講交給湯姆·弗林齊 (Tom Frinzi)。湯姆？

Thank you, Brian, and good afternoon, everyone. Before I get started, I wanted to thank everyone for joining today's webcast on short notice. We had originally scheduled our fourth-quarter and fiscal 2024 results for February 19. But as we work through the quarter and year-end close process and we learned more about the impact of the China economic slowdown on our results for 2024 and outlook for 2025, we felt it was important to communicate our findings with investors sooner rather than later. We are still working to complete the year-end audit and expect to file our Form 10-K on or before February 25, but we did not want to wait to share our results, outlook and perspectives with you all.

謝謝你，布萊恩，大家下午好。在我開始之前，我想感謝大家在短時間內參加今天的網路直播。我們原定於 2 月 19 日發布第四季和 2024 財年業績。但隨著我們完成季度和年終結算流程，我們了解到更多有關中國經濟放緩對我們 2024 年業績和 2025 年展望的影響，我們覺得儘早與投資者溝通我們的調查結果非常重要。我們仍在努力完成年終審計，並預計在 2 月 25 日或之前提交 10-K 表，但我們不想等待與大家分享我們的結果、展望和觀點。

I'll begin with an overview of our performance and progress against our growth initiatives before turning the call to Patrick to discuss our financial performance and provide additional outlook details. I will then make some brief final comments before we open the line to your questions.

我將首先概述我們的業績和成長計劃的進展，然後再轉給帕特里克討論我們的財務業績並提供更多展望細節。在我們開始回答你們的提問之前，我將做一些簡短的最後評論。

For fiscal 2024, we reported net sales of approximately $314 million, which were negatively impacted by weak China macroeconomic conditions that were particularly acute in the fourth quarter. Our continued market share gains in 2024 are overshadowed by our heavy exposure to China, where consumer sentiment and spending remain at unprecedented low levels. Despite these headwinds, STAAR generated $152 million of ICL sales outside of China, which is growth of 17% and 13% in the fourth quarter and fiscal 2024, respectively.

2024 財年，我們報告的淨銷售額約為 3.14 億美元，這受到第四季度尤為嚴重的中國宏觀經濟狀況疲軟的負面影響。由於我們對中國市場的過度依賴，2024 年我們的市場份額將繼續增長，而中國的消費者信心和支出仍處於前所未有的低水平。儘管面臨這些不利因素，STAAR 在中國以外地區的 ICL 銷售額仍達 1.52 億美元，在第四季和 2024 財年分別成長了 17% 和 13%。

STAAR's double-digit growth outside of China reflects solid returns on our investments and execution against the vital few strategic priorities and growth levers within our control. This growth would not have been possible without the continued contributions from our global team, and I want to thank all of our STAAR colleagues for their tireless work to drive EVO ICL sales position as the choice for refractive vision correction at minus 6 diopters and above. It's been a well-documented and difficult macroeconomic environment for companies who do business in China, including for STAAR. We saw a significant decline in our sales in China for the fourth quarter and full year fiscal 2024. In the fourth quarter, ICL sales in China were $7.5 million and for the full year, $161 million, down 13% year-over-year.

STAAR 在中國以外地區的兩位數成長反映了我們在控制範圍內針對少數重要策略重點和成長槓桿的投資和執行方面所取得的豐厚回報。如果沒有我們全球團隊的持續貢獻，這種成長是不可能實現的，我要感謝所有 STAAR 同事的不懈努力，推動 EVO ICL 的銷售地位，成為負 6 屈光度及以上的屈光視力矯正的選擇。對於在中國開展業務的公司（包括 STAAR）來說，當前的宏觀經濟環境是眾所周知且艱難的。我們發現 2024 財年第四季和全年在中國的銷售額大幅下降。第四季，ICL在華銷售額為750萬美元，全年銷售額為1.61億美元，較去年同期下降13%。

As stated in today's press release, this was driven by a $27.5 million order that we shipped into China in December for which we ended up extending payment terms and as a result, did not recognize that revenue. This was one order with one distributor. However, it had a significant impact on our results in fiscal 2024, and we expect to recognize this revenue in 2025. Patrick will be providing additional accounting details in his remarks. It is clear that weak consumer confidence in China is negatively impacting demand for our ICLs. As a reminder, our products are a cash pay discretionary and premium purchase. So consumer confidence is an important data point for us.

正如今天的新聞稿所述，這是由於我們 12 月運往中國的價值 2,750 萬美元的訂單所致，但我們最終延長了付款期限，因此未能確認這筆收入。這是向一個分銷商的一個訂單。然而，它對我們 2024 財年的業績產生了重大影響，我們預計將在 2025 年確認這筆收入。帕特里克將在他的發言中提供更多會計細節。顯然，中國消費者信心疲軟對我們的 ICL 需求產生了負面影響。提醒一下，我們的產品是現金支付、自由支配和保費購買。因此，消費者信心對我們來說是一個重要的數據點。

As shown on slide 7, China consumer confidence remains weak and retail sales data have been very mixed. Retail sales in the major cities of Beijing and Shanghai were down over the summer, but then there was an uptick in October, presumably driven by Golden Week and government stimulus. It is because of this that on our October 30 Q3 '24 earnings call, we shared our belief that refractive procedures in China had indeed hit a trough and were rebounding.

如投影片 7 所示，中國消費者信心仍疲軟，零售銷售數據好壞參半。北京和上海等主要城市的零售額在夏季下降，但 10 月出現回升，這可能是受到黃金周和政府刺激措施的推動。正因為如此，在我們 10 月 30 日的 24 年第三季財報電話會議上，我們分享了我們的信念：中國的屈光手術確實已經觸底並且正在反彈。

While we and our distributors were encouraged by the rebound, this sales uptick was not sustained as retail sales in major cities turned negative in November and December. Given our distributor model in China, we sell into our distributors in bulk shipments in advance of anticipated procedural demand. Our distributors, in turn, sell-through to their hospital customers based on scheduled surgeries. As a proxy for procedural volumes, we track sell-through data, which is estimated based on the movement of product between the distributor and the end-user hospital. To provide some context for the significant variability in our sell-through in 2024, it is helpful to understand how volumes trended.

雖然我們和我們的經銷商都對銷售反彈感到鼓舞，但由於11月和12月主要城市的零售額出現負成長，這種銷售成長動能未能持續。鑑於我們在中國的經銷商模式，我們會在預期的程序需求之前批量向經銷商銷售產品。我們的經銷商則根據預定的手術情況將產品銷售給醫院客戶。作為程序量的代理，我們追蹤銷售數據，該數據是根據分銷商和最終用戶醫院之間的產品流動估算出來的。為了說明 2024 年銷售量發生的巨大變化，了解銷售趨勢會有所幫助。

In January 2024, sell-through was up, followed by declines in February and March. Then we saw a spike in April and then sell-through moderated again through August. September saw a steep decline, but then we saw the rebound in October around Golden Week. Following the short-lived recovery in October, we saw some ups and downs in November and things worsened in December. We believe this volatility in procedural volumes will continue until consumer confidence stabilizes and ultimately improves in China.

2024 年 1 月，銷售量上升，隨後 2 月和 3 月下降。然後，我們看到 4 月的銷售量出現激增，而 8 月的銷售量又有所回落。9月出現了大幅下滑，但10月份黃金週左右出現了反彈。繼十月短暫復甦之後，十一月份出現了一些起伏，十二月份情況進一步惡化。我們相信，在中國消費者信心穩定並最終改善之前，這種程序量的波動將持續下去。

We expect our sell-through to remain highly correlated to macroeconomic conditions there. Although we cannot predict or control when China consumer confidence and economic conditions will improve, data shows that the China consumer has been saving money with significant increases in household savings over the past several years.

我們預計我們的銷售量將與那裡的宏觀經濟狀況高度相關。雖然我們無法預測或控制中國消費者信心和經濟狀況何時會改善，但數據顯示，中國消費者一直在存錢，過去幾年家庭儲蓄大幅增加。

As we have stated before, when consumer confidence improves, we have seen rapid improvement in our China sales. For example, we saw a 50% plus monthly increase in sell-through in China in the first quarter of 2023 following the China COVID-19 lockdown as the economy reopened. We and our distributors continue to believe the current weakness in China is transitory and the overall refractive market will rebound.

正如我們之前所說，當消費者信心增強時，我們的中國銷售額就會快速提高。例如，隨著中國新冠疫情封鎖結束、經濟重新開放，我們看到 2023 年第一季中國月銷售額成長了 50% 以上。我們和我們的經銷商仍然相信，中國目前的疲軟是暫時的，整體屈光市場將會反彈。

As we continue to closely monitor the challenging demand environment in China, we are pleased with our performance across our other regions. Excluding China, ICL sales were up a resilient 17% in the fourth quarter and 13% for the full year. In the Americas, we generated ICL sales growth of 22% in the fourth quarter and 15% for the fiscal year. Our quarterly performance included US sales growth of 22% and unit growth of 21%.

我們繼續密切關注中國充滿挑戰的需求環境，同時我們對其他地區的表現感到滿意。除中國外，ICL 第四季銷售額強勁成長 17%，全年銷售額成長 13%。在美洲，我們第四季的 ICL 銷售額成長了 22%，全年成長了 15%。我們的季度業績包括美國銷售額成長 22% 和單位成長 21%。

We delivered this growth as overall laser vision correction procedures in the US declined 20% in the fourth quarter and declined 18% for the full year 2024 according to third-party data. We continue to outpace the US refractive market by a large margin as we refine and execute against our Highway 93 and Fast Lane commercial strategies in the United States. I am particularly pleased with the progress of our Fast Lane initiative as these customers generated sales growth of 45% in fiscal 2024 compared to 2023.

我們實現這一增長之際，根據第三方數據，美國整體雷射視力矯正手術在第四季度下降了 20%，2024 年全年下降了 18%。隨著我們完善並執行美國 93 號高速公路和快速車道商業策略，我們繼續大幅領先美國屈光市場。我對我們的 Fast Lane 計劃的進展感到特別高興，因為這些客戶在 2024 財年的銷售額與 2023 年相比增長了 45%。

These results reflect the significant value that our EVO ICL solutions provide to both patients and providers and show that our commercial strategies in the US, including increased professional education, practice development and clinical application support are working. In EMEA, we generated ICL sales growth of 9% in the fourth quarter and 10% for fiscal 2024, driven primarily by strength in our European distributor markets, Spain and the Middle East.

這些結果反映了我們的 EVO ICL 解決方案為患者和提供者提供的重要價值，並表明我們在美國的商業策略（包括加強專業教育、實踐發展和臨床應用支援）正在發揮作用。在歐洲、中東和非洲地區，我們的 ICL 銷售額在第四季度增長了 9%，在 2024 財年增長了 10%，這主要得益於我們歐洲分銷商市場、西班牙和中東地區的強勁增長。

We are pleased with the performance in this important region, which has delivered growth in the face of a dynamic geopolitical backdrop and elevated inflation levels. In APAC, excluding China, we generated ICL sales growth of 20% in the fourth quarter and 14% for fiscal 2024. Japan and South Korea contributed to our strong performance with South Korea boosted by the first ICL-only clinic, which implanted well over 2,000 lenses in 2024, its first year.

我們對這一重要地區的表現感到滿意，在動態的地緣政治背景和高通膨水平的情況下，該地區仍然實現了增長。在亞太地區（不包括中國），我們第四季的 ICL 銷售額成長了 20%，2024 財年的銷售額成長了 14%。日本和韓國為我們強勁的業績做出了貢獻，其中韓國得益於首家 ICL 專用診所，該診所於 2024 年（第一年）植入了超過 2,000 枚晶狀體。

In India, we generated 21% ICL sales growth for fiscal 2024. We continue to invest in this large market with a focus on regions with rising income levels. STAAR's total business is geographically diverse with sales in over 75 countries, yet remains heavily indexed to China. Therefore, it will be difficult for the total company revenue to grow at historic rates until China rebounds.

在印度，我們 2024 財年的 ICL 銷售額成長了 21%。我們將繼續投資這個龐大的市場，重點關注收入水準不斷上升的地區。STAAR 的整體業務在地理上呈現多元化，其銷售業務遍及超過 75 個國家，但仍嚴重依賴中國。因此，在中國經濟反彈之前，公司總收入很難以歷史速度成長。

Turning to our outlook for fiscal 2025, we anticipate ICL sales, excluding China, of $165 million to $175 million, which represents a growth range of 9% at the low end and 15% at the high end. We expect China ICL sales in the range of $75 million to $125 million, which we acknowledge is a large range. I will now turn the call over to Patrick to discuss this in more detail with our outlook assumptions and financial results. Patrick?

展望 2025 財年，我們預期 ICL 的銷售額（不包括中國）將達到 1.65 億至 1.75 億美元，成長率低端為 9%，高端為 15%。我們預計中國 ICL 的銷售額將在 7,500 萬至 1.25 億美元之間，我們承認這是一個很大的範圍。現在，我將把電話轉給帕特里克，讓他根據我們的前景假設和財務結果更詳細地討論這個問題。派崔克？

Thank you, Tom, and good afternoon, everyone. Allow me to provide some more details on the underlying variables impacting the ranges of our ICL sales outlook in fiscal 2025 shown here. The amount of revenue that we recognize from selling to our China distributors in 2025 will depend on their sell-through as a proxy for procedural volumes. If procedural volumes remain low, this demand will be satisfied from our distributors' existing inventory. As the overall refractive market and our procedural volumes recover, our distributors will purchase more product from us.

謝謝你，湯姆，大家午安。請允許我提供一些關於影響此處顯示的 2025 財年 ICL 銷售前景範圍的潛在變數的更多詳細資訊。2025 年我們從向中國經銷商銷售中獲得的收入金額將取決於他們的銷售量，以此作為程序量的代表。如果程序量仍然很低，則我們的經銷商現有的庫存將滿足此需求。隨著整體屈光市場和我們的手術量恢復，我們的經銷商將從我們這裡購買更多的產品。

And if forward-looking demand looks strong and sustainable, they will purchase even more product, which gets us to the higher end of the range. Our outlook range assumes overall refractive market procedure growth in our Americas region is down minus 5% to minus 10% and flat growth for refractive procedures in EMEA and APAC, excluding China. We believe macroeconomic conditions and consumer confidence in China will improve in the second half of 2025.

如果前瞻性需求看起來強勁且可持續，他們將會購買更多的產品，這將使我們的產品達到更高的價格範圍。我們的展望範圍假設美洲地區的整體屈光市場手術成長率下降-5%至-10%，而歐洲、中東和非洲地區以及亞太地區（中國除外）的屈光手術成長率則持平。我們相信，2025年下半年中國宏觀經濟狀況和消費者信心將會改善。

Our ability to reach the high end of the range will depend on whether anticipated government stimulus packages have their intended impact and the 2025 summer high season in China leads to increased demand. We are collaborating with our distributors to address elevated inventory levels in China in light of the demand environment and have confirmed that there is sufficient product in country to meet the currently expected sell-through or procedural volumes for the first half of 2025.

我們能否達到這一範圍的高端，將取決於預期的政府刺激計劃是否能產生預期的影響，以及 2025 年中國夏季旺季是否會引發需求增加。鑑於需求環境，我們正在與我們的經銷商合作解決中國庫存水準上升的問題，並已確認中國有足夠的產品來滿足目前預期的 2025 年上半年的銷售量或程序量。

We, therefore, anticipate we will report minimal China ICL sales in the first half of the year. We expect global net sales to be approximately $40 million per quarter for each of Q1 and Q2. As China in-country inventory is reduced during the first half of 2025, we would expect our China revenue to rebound in the second half of 2025 in a range of $75 million to $125 million.

因此，我們預計今年上半年中國 ICL 銷售額將非常低。我們預計第一季和第二季的全球淨銷售額分別為每季約 4,000 萬美元。由於 2025 年上半年中國國內庫存減少，我們預計 2025 年下半年我們的中國收入將反彈至 7,500 萬美元至 1.25 億美元之間。

Our underlying assumption is that the overall refractive procedures in China will be down 10% year-over-year at the lower end of our sales outlook and up 10% year over year at the higher end of our sales outlook. Our outlook range for China ICL does not factor in any potential ASP benefit from the launch of EVO+ in China in 2025.

我們的基本假設是，在我們的銷售預期低端，中國整體屈光手術規模將年減 10%，而在銷售預期高端，中國整體屈光手術規模將年增 10%。我們對中國 ICL 的展望範圍並未考慮 2025 年在中國推出 EVO+ 所帶來的任何潛在 ASP 收益。

However, we do anticipate that there will be demand from customers and patients in China for EVO+, the latest version of our lens and a new entry to the China market, which should garner a higher ASP. While the product is not yet approved, we continue to expect a midyear timetable. If EVO+ can drive incremental pricing power, it could provide us with some potential revenue upside.

然而，我們確實預期中國客戶和患者對我們最新版本的鏡片和進入中國市場的新產品 EVO+ 會有需求，這應該會獲得更高的平均售價。雖然該產品尚未獲得批准，但我們仍期待年中公佈時間表。如果 EVO+ 能夠提高定價能力，那麼它可以為我們提供一些潛在的收入成長。

Based on the company's outlook for fiscal year 2025, we no longer expect to achieve our Vision 2026 target sales and operating model originally announced on September 14, 2023. In order to leave sufficient time for Q&A, we have provided our Q4 and full year 2024 financial results on slides 12 through 14. Please also refer to slides 18 and 19 of this earnings presentation for additional unaudited financial results and a reconciliation of non-GAAP financial measures, which are also shown in today's earnings press release.

根據公司對 2025 財年的展望，我們不再預期實現最初於 2023 年 9 月 14 日宣布的 2026 願景目標銷售和營運模式。為了留出足夠的時間進行問答，我們在第 12 至 14 張投影片上提供了 2024 年第四季和全年的財務業績。另請參閱本收益報告的第 18 和 19 頁，以了解更多未經審計的財務結果和非 GAAP 財務指標的對帳表，這些內容也顯示在今天的收益新聞稿中。

For fiscal 2024, our total net sales were $313.9 million, a decline of 3% compared to $322.4 million in fiscal 2023. As Tom indicated, our results were adversely impacted by a significant decline in ICL sales in China in the fourth quarter, where the volatile economy and weak consumer consumption contributed to fluctuating demand for ICL procedures. In December 2024, we shipped $27.5 million of ICLs to China for which we did not recognize revenue. To provide some background, our distributors placed orders in December, which we shipped in the ordinary course.

2024 財年，我們的總淨銷售額為 3.139 億美元，較 2023 財年的 3.224 億美元下降 3%。正如湯姆所指出的，我們的業績受到第四季度中國 ICL 銷售額大幅下滑的不利影響，中國經濟動盪和消費者消費疲軟導致 ICL 手術需求波動。2024 年 12 月，我們向中國運送了價值 2,750 萬美元的 ICL，但我們並未確認收入。提供一些背景信息，我們的分銷商在 12 月下了訂單，我們通過正常方式發貨。

In January 2025, as we engage in discussions with our distributors about demand expectations for fiscal year 2025, it became clear that inventory levels in country were elevated. Our contracts with our distributors required that they maintain minimum levels of inventory to support quick and efficient delivery and fulfillment for EVO procedures.

2025 年 1 月，當我們與經銷商討論 2025 財年的需求預期時，很明顯該國的庫存水準有所上升。我們與經銷商簽訂的合約要求他們維持最低水準的庫存，以支援快速且有效率的交付和履行 EVO 程序。

Given that anticipated demand was lower than expected, one of our distributors indicated that they had sufficient inventory and requested a significant extension of payment terms for its December order. Ultimately, after discussions in January, we agreed to extend the payment terms and as a result, we did not recognize the revenue.

鑑於預期需求低於預期，我們的一家經銷商表示他們有足夠的庫存，並要求大幅延長 12 月訂單的付款期限。最終，經過一月份的討論，我們同意延長付款期限，因此我們沒有確認收入。

We did not want the lenses to be returned or shipped back as we believe keeping additional product in country mitigates potential risks related to importation challenges as well as potential impacts from geopolitical and tariff changes. Due to the accounting, we were required under GAAP to recognize cost of sales in the fourth quarter of $3.9 million related to the shipment.

我們不希望鏡片被退回或運回，因為我們相信在國內保留額外的產品可以減輕與進口挑戰相關的潛在風險以及地緣政治和關稅變化的潛在影響。由於會計原因，根據 GAAP，我們需要確認第四季度與該批貨物相關的 390 萬美元銷售成本。

Finally, based on the extended payment terms, we expect to receive full payment and fully recognize this revenue by the end of Q3 2025. Our results in China drove a net loss of $20.2 million in fiscal 2024 compared to net income of $21.3 million in fiscal 2023. Our gross margin for full year fiscal 2024 was down 210 basis points, but remained at a solid 76.3%. For the fourth quarter of fiscal 2024, gross margin decreased primarily due to the recognition of cost of sales of $3.9 million associated with the ICLs shipped into China in December.

最後，根據延長的付款條件，我們預計將在 2025 年第三季末收到全額付款並完全確認這筆收入。我們在中國的業務業績導致 2024 財年的淨虧損為 2,020 萬美元，而 2023 財年的淨收入為 2,130 萬美元。我們 2024 財年全年的毛利率下降了 210 個基點，但仍維持在 76.3% 的穩定水準。2024 財年第四季度，毛利率下降主要是因為確認了 12 月運往中國的 ICL 相關的 390 萬美元銷售成本。

Gross profit margin was also negatively impacted by period costs related to the expansion of our manufacturing capabilities in our Switzerland facility as well as the temporary idling of our US manufacturing facility during the holiday season and for facility upgrades. As the gross margin hit in Q4 was related to the December order, gross margin will normalize in fiscal 2025, except that we will see a reduction due to our planned decrease in production output. We expect first half gross margins to be in the low 70s and second half gross margins to be in the mid- to high 70s, resulting in a full year gross margin of approximately 75%. Longer term, as our growth rebounds, we expect to increase our production output, which will lead to higher gross margins.

毛利率也受到與我們瑞士工廠製造能力擴張相關的期間成本以及我們美國製造工廠在假期期間和設施升級期間的暫時閒置有關的期間成本的負面影響。由於第四季的毛利率下降與12月的訂單有關，因此毛利率將在2025財年恢復正常，但由於我們計劃減少生產產量，毛利率將有所下降。我們預計上半年毛利率將在 70% 以下，下半年毛利率將在 70% 中高位，全年毛利率約為 75%。從長遠來看，隨著經濟成長的反彈，我們預計產量將會增加，從而帶來更高的毛利率。

We continue to believe that we will have the potential to achieve 80% plus gross margins. With our existing capacity in Monrovia and our planned manufacturing in Switzerland, which is close to completion, we will be able to address growth in demand without significant incremental CapEx for manufacturing. Over the last few years, STAAR has made significant investments globally in human capital, manufacturing capacity expansion and technology infrastructure to bring our procedures to the market. In 2025, we will manage our working capital and implement appropriate cost-cutting measures in light of the lower revenue forecast. We intend to lower production output, decrease capital expenditures and make targeted reductions to operating expenses, which will impact headcount and discretionary spend.

我們仍然相信我們有潛力實現80%以上的毛利率。憑藉我們在蒙羅維亞的現有產能和即將完工的瑞士製造計劃，我們將能夠滿足需求的成長，而無需大幅增加製造資本支出。在過去幾年中，STAAR 在全球範圍內對人力資本、製造能力擴張和技術基礎設施進行了大量投資，以將我們的流程推向市場。2025年，我們將根據較低的收入預測管理我們的營運資本並實施適當的削減成本措施。我們打算降低生產產量，減少資本支出，並有針對性地削減營運費用，這將影響員工數量和可自由支配的開支。

We will continue to invest in commercial-facing activities, especially in those markets that have the potential to drive double-digit growth. A high percentage of our total operating expense is related to headcount and is essentially fixed in nature. With that said, we will closely monitor sell-through procedural volume in China and its potential impact on our overall revenue, and we will make further reductions to OpEx as appropriate.

我們將繼續投資以商業為導向的活動，特別是那些有潛力推動兩位數成長的市場。我們總營運費用的很大一部分與員工人數有關，而且本質上是固定的。話雖如此，我們將密切監控中國的銷售程序量及其對我們整體收入的潛在影響，並將在適當的情況下進一步削減營運支出。

For modeling purposes, the following operating expense ranges are provided and take into account the low and high end of our fiscal 2025 sales outlook range. We expect general and administration expenses to be approximately $20 million to $27 million per quarter as we complete various technology system programs like our ERP, quality and CRM upgrades and as we annualize compensation-related costs.

為了建模目的，我們提供了以下營運費用範圍，並考慮了我們 2025 財年銷售前景範圍的低端和高端。隨著我們完成 ERP、品質和 CRM 升級等各種技術系統計劃以及將薪酬相關成本按年計算，我們預計每季度的一般和管理費用約為 2000 萬至 2700 萬美元。

We expect selling and marketing expenses to be approximately $22 million to $30 million per quarter as we continue to invest in activities that drive demand generation across our global markets. And we expect research and development expenses to be approximately $11 million to $15 million per quarter as we continue to invest in our product pipeline.

由於我們將繼續投資於推動全球市場需求產生的活動，我們預計每季的銷售和行銷費用約為 2,200 萬至 3,000 萬美元。由於我們將繼續投資於我們的產品線，我們預計每季的研發費用約為 1,100 萬至 1,500 萬美元。

Turning to adjusted EBITDA. Depending on where we land in our sales outlook range, we anticipate an adjusted EBITDA loss of approximately $30 million per quarter in the first half of 2025, followed by an adjusted EBITDA gain range of approximately $5 million to $22.5 million per quarter in the second half of 2025, resulting in a full year adjusted EBITDA loss range of approximately $50 million to $15 million or an adjusted EBITDA loss per diluted share range of approximately $1 loss per share at the low end of the range to $0.30 loss per share at the high end of the range. Finally, turning to cash.

轉向調整後的 EBITDA。根據我們的銷售前景範圍，我們預計 2025 年上半年每季調整後 EBITDA 虧損約為 3,000 萬美元，隨後 2025 年下半年每季調整後 EBITDA 收益範圍約為 500 萬美元至 2,250 萬美元，導致全年調整後 EBITDA 虧損範圍約 500 萬美元至 100 萬美元，每股成本（範圍低端）至每股虧損 0.30 美元（範圍高端）。最後，轉向現金。

We ended fiscal 2024 with $230.5 million in cash, cash equivalents and investments available for sale compared to $232.4 million at the beginning of the year. Over the past several years, STAAR has shown the ability to generate significant cash from the operating leverage of our business model as evidenced by our strong balance sheet and ability to maintain our cash reserves despite important operating and capital investments.

截至 2024 財年，我們的現金、現金等價物和可供出售投資為 2.305 億美元，而年初為 2.324 億美元。在過去幾年中，STAAR 已展現出透過業務模式的經營槓桿產生大量現金的能力，這從我們強勁的資產負債表和在進行重大營運和資本投資的情況下仍能維持現金儲備的能力中可見一斑。

We also had no debt and approximately $78 million in accounts receivable at December 27, 2024, which we do expect to fully collect in the first half of 2025. As of today, we have received additional payments from our distributors and our AR balance is now below $65 million. We will continue our disciplined financial approach as we move through the first half of 2025.

我們也沒有債務，截至 2024 年 12 月 27 日的應收帳款約為 7,800 萬美元，我們預計將在 2025 年上半年全部收回。截至今天，我們已經收到了來自分銷商的額外付款，我們的應收帳款餘額現在低於 6500 萬美元。在 2025 年上半年，我們將繼續採取嚴謹的財務方針。

We will pause some CapEx build-outs and anticipate our total CapEx spend in the fiscal year 2025 will be approximately $15 million, primarily related to completing the aforementioned manufacturing expansion and system and technology infrastructure improvements. Use of cash and cash flows will vary by quarter, but we will be managing capital expenditures and working capital closely, especially in the first half of 2025 and expect to end the year with cash, cash equivalents and investments available for sale of approximately $150 million to $175 million. We do expect to begin rebuilding our cash reserves as we move beyond 2025. And now back to Tom.

我們將暫停一些資本支出建設，預計 2025 財年的總資本支出約為 1500 萬美元，主要用於完成上述製造擴張以及系統和技術基礎設施改進。現金和現金流的使用情況將因季度而異，但我們將密切管理資本支出和營運資本，尤其是在 2025 年上半年，預計到年底時現金、現金等價物和可供出售的投資約為 1.5 億美元至 1.75 億美元。我們確實希望在 2025 年後開始重建我們的現金儲備。現在回到湯姆。

Thank you, Patrick. Before turning to questions, I want to provide some closing remarks on 2024 and level set our path forward for 2025 and beyond. Ongoing macroeconomic challenges in China clearly pressured the business in 2024, particularly in the latter half as consumer spending dropped to unprecedented low levels. China remains the largest market for refractive procedures globally and is a large part of our business. It is disappointing that the challenging market dynamics in China overshadowed the growth we achieved across our other markets.

謝謝你，派崔克。在回答問題之前，我想先對 2024 年做一些結束語，並規劃 2025 年及以後的前進道路。中國持續的宏觀經濟挑戰顯然給 2024 年的業務帶來了壓力，尤其是下半年，因為消費者支出降至前所未有的低水平。中國仍然是全球最大的屈光手術市場，也是我們業務的重要組成部分。令人失望的是，中國市場的嚴峻情況掩蓋了我們在其他市場的成長。

As we have said before, myopia is not going away. Global myopia rates are expected to increase by almost 20 points to 50% of the world's population by 2050. EVO ICL continues to outpace the global refractive market. We have a unique technology in polymer with over 30 years of proven success and demonstrated clinical outcomes. Our team, our best-in-class technology and our disciplined commercial strategies all position us to capitalize on this total addressable market opportunity and drive continued growth, including in China as that market rebounds.

正如我們之前所說，近視不會消失。預計到 2050 年，全球近視率將增加近 20 個百分點，達到世界人口的 50%。EVO ICL 繼續領先全球屈光市場。我們擁有獨特的聚合物技術，並已獲得30多年成功驗證和臨床證明。我們的團隊、一流的技術和嚴謹的商業策略都使我們能夠利用這一潛在的市場機會並推動持續成長，包括在中國市場復甦之際。

Our strong balance sheet was built over years to provide resiliency to weather times of global uncertainty like these. which we believe are transitory. We will maintain our discipline and continue investing in critical areas of demand generation in our product pipeline while closely monitoring and managing our expenditures and working capital.

我們經過多年努力建立了強大的資產負債表，以抵禦類似這樣的全球不確定時期。我們認為這只是暫時的。我們將保持紀律，繼續投資於我們產品線中需求產生的關鍵領域，同時密切監控和管理我們的支出和營運資金。

Again, I want to thank the STAAR team for their efforts during these dynamic times as we build lens-based refractive surgery with our EVO ICL, and we return the total company to a strong growth trajectory. And I also want to thank all of you for your continued support. And with that, operator, we will now take questions.

再次，我要感謝 STAAR 團隊在這個動態時期所做的努力，我們利用 EVO ICL 構建了基於晶狀體的屈光手術，並使整個公司重回強勁的成長軌跡。我還要感謝大家一直以來的支持。接線員，現在我們開始回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Ryan Zimmerman, BTIG.

(操作員指示) Ryan Zimmerman，BTIG。

This is actually Izzy on for Ryan. So just to start out, it looks like your global units were down about 39% year-over-year. And I was curious if you could speak to what you guys saw for pricing during the quarter.

這其實是 Izzy 為 Ryan 而作。首先，看起來你們的全球銷量比去年同期下降了約 39%。我很好奇您是否可以談談本季的定價情況。

Yes. I mean it's all about the China fall that we saw in Q4. So it's really related to the $7.5 million in overall revenue in China, and that follows through to the units and the decline that we saw.

是的。我的意思是，這全都是因為我們在第四季看到的中國經濟下滑。所以這確實與中國 750 萬美元的總收入有關，而這與我們看到的單位數和下滑有關。

Got it. And then as we start to look about or look at 2025 guidance, it seems like you're assuming a slowdown in refractive volumes across all regions compared to 2024. I was hoping you could speak to what's driving this? And then as we look specifically at China, is your assumption for growth in the back half of the year predicated entirely on stimulus taking effect?

知道了。然後，當我們開始研究或展望 2025 年的指引時，似乎您假設與 2024 年相比，所有地區的折射量都會放緩。我希望您能講講導致這種情況的原因是什麼？然後當我們具體看中國時，您對今年下半年經濟成長的假設是否完全基於刺激措施的效果？

Yes. I think let me try to address the latter part of your question. Certainly, stimulus will have a large impact on that. I think as there's more clarity between the US and China relationships, I think the China government will make some decisions.

是的。我想讓我嘗試回答你的問題的後半部分。當然，刺激措施將對此產生巨大影響。我認為，隨著中美關係更加明朗，中國政府將做出一些決定。

I know there's a key meeting coming up in March. So we do believe, as we've said many times, the challenges in China are transitory. I think the business -- the business integrity is there. The market opportunity remains strong. Myopia isn't going away.

我知道三月將舉行一次重要會議。因此，我們確實相信，正如我們多次所說的，中國面臨的挑戰是暫時的。我認為商業——商業誠信是存在的。市場機會依然強勁。近視不會消失。

We feel we're well positioned. And we do think it's a tale of two cities. Given elevated inventory levels, given the poor high season this past year and how the year ended, we anticipate that it's going to be slow in the first half, but we do believe it will pick up in the second half. And given our relationships in market with KOLs and our relationships with our distributor partners, we believe we'll be able to, as was demonstrated in 2023 and 2021, respond rather quickly as the market turns.

我們覺得自己處於有利地位。我們確實認為這是一個兩個城市的故事。鑑於庫存水準上升、去年旺季表現不佳以及今年的收尾情況，我們預計上半年銷售成長將會放緩，但我們相信下半年銷售成長將會回升。鑑於我們與 KOL 在市場上的關係以及與經銷商合作夥伴的關係，我們相信，正如 2023 年和 2021 年所展示的那樣，我們將能夠隨著市場的變化而迅速做出反應。

And I'll go ahead and hit the underlying assumptions for the major regions, and you are correct. So the basis of our outlook on the rest of the world, excluding China, for the Americas, we are assuming that it will continue to be a challenging year. We believe the overall refractive market in the Americas, which is primarily driven by the US, will be down minus 5% to minus 10%. But we do believe that our US number will still grow around 15% year-over-year.

我將繼續討論主要地區的基本假設，而你是對的。因此，根據我們對美洲（中國除外）其他地區的展望，我們假設今年仍將是充滿挑戰的一年。我們認為，主要受美國推動的美洲整體屈光市場將下降 5% 至 10%。但我們確實相信，我們的美國業務數量仍將年增 15% 左右。

So we are still taking market share. For EMEA and for APAC, excluding China, we do assume that the markets will be flat overall market. We will, of course, continue to grow, and we provided that in our guidance. And then finally, in China, just to hit that a little bit further, we did give quite a wide range. The overall refractive market on the lower end of our range does assume that there's continued deterioration in the overall refractive market, upwards of minus 10% year-over-year.

因此我們仍在佔領市場份額。對於歐洲、中東和非洲地區以及亞太地區（不包括中國），我們確實假設市場整體將持平。當然，我們將繼續發展，我們在指導中也提到了這一點。最後，在中國，為了進一步實現這一目標，我們確實給出了相當廣泛的範圍。我們範圍低端的整體屈光市場確實假設整體屈光市場持續惡化，年減 10% 以上。

The upper end of our range assumes that the overall refractive market in China would have a rebound, and that was at the higher end of 10% year over year.

我們預期的上限是假設中國整體屈光市場將反彈，年增 10% 左右。

Tom Stephan, Stifel.

湯姆‧史蒂芬 (Tom Stephan)，Stifel。

I guess I'll start kind of big picture. And how did we get here in terms of the China inventory issues? And I think the pretty significant fallout from the P&L and accounting standpoint. I mean maybe the heart of my question is, I guess, how can investors be assured moving forward that these issues, a, will be remediated, I guess, at the company level; and b, more importantly, not act as a meaningful risk in the future? And then I have a follow-up.

我想我將開始描繪一幅宏觀圖景。那麼，就中國庫存問題而言，我們是如何走到這一步的呢？我認為從損益表和會計的角度來看，影響相當嚴重。我的問題的核心可能是，投資者如何確信這些問題將在公司層面得到解決； b，更重要的是，將來不會構成重大風險？然後我有一個後續問題。

Yes. Look, I think ultimately, related to the shipments that we did not recognize revenue in, that's a bit of a timing issue. What we saw as we were exiting 2024 and certainly the height in 2024 is that we started seeing some elevated inventory levels. As we did on our Q3 2024 earnings call, we actually did lower China because of one of our distributors telling us that they were seeing some softness. The reality is, at the end of the day, no matter what happened to that revenue that we did not recognize in 2024, we do have elevated inventory levels and working through that.

是的。看起來，我認為最終與我們未確認收入的發貨量有關，這有點時間問題。當我們即將迎來 2024 年，並且肯定在 2024 年達到頂峰時，我們看到庫存水準開始上升。正如我們在 2024 年第三季財報電話會議上所做的那樣，我們實際上確實降低了中國市場的銷量，因為我們的一位分銷商告訴我們，他們看到了一些疲軟。事實是，不管 2024 年我們未能確認的收入發生什麼變化，我們的庫存水準確實有所上升，並且正在努力解決這個問題。

And so the first half, as we said, we'll have very little revenue that we ship into China. And I think to your ultimate point and your question, Tom, look, we do believe and we provided a very large range for China. And I just went over what the underlying assumption is. We think that the government in China will continue to focus on stimulus and focus on building consumer confidence, but that is the basis of the large range that you see for China.

因此，正如我們所說，上半年我們運往中國的收入將非常少。我認為，對於你的最終觀點和問題，湯姆，看，我們確實相信，並且我們為中國提供了非常大的範圍。我剛剛討論了潛在的假設是什麼。我們認為，中國政府將繼續集中刺激措施並致力於建立消費者信心，但這是中國經濟大幅擴張的基礎。

Got it. That makes sense. And then one kind of sort of housekeeping question and then just one on competition, sort of a two-parter. I guess if $28 million was shipped in December specifically, but not recognized, were there only $7.5 million of China ICL sales in October and November? Maybe you can help me connect the dots there.

知道了。這很有道理。然後是一個類似常規的問題，然後是一個關於競爭的問題，分成兩個部分。我猜想，如果 12 月具體出貨了 2,800 萬美元但未被確認，那麼 10 月和 11 月中國 ICL 的銷售額是否只有 750 萬美元？也許您可以幫助我將這些點連接起來。

And then just on China competition, can you discuss what is factored into your guidance as it relates to the impact from iBright? And was the distributor behavior at all related to their response to the iBright approval, I think it was earlier this year.

然後，就中國競爭而言，您能否討論一下您的指導考量與 iBright 的影響有何關係？經銷商的行為是否與他們對 iBright 批准的反應有關？我認為是今年早些時候。

Yes. Tom, let me take the last part of your question, and then certainly, Patrick can add some more guidance and details relative to the first part of your question. I think as it relates to competition, no. None of this that happened at the distributor level -- and again, it's one distributor and one order. Let me remind you of that, had anything to do with iBright coming into the marketplace.

是的。湯姆，讓我來回答你問題的最後一部分，然後當然，派崔克可以為你問題的第一部分添加更多指導和細節。我認為，就競爭而言，不是。在經銷商層面，這些都沒有發生——再說一次，這是一個分銷商和一個訂單。讓我提醒你一下，這跟 iBright 進入市場有什麼關係。

We've been very clear that we respect a new competitor coming into the marketplace. I think it does validate that the market opportunity continues to be attractive and exciting. But by no means do we believe our distributor took the actions they took as a result of competition. As we've said in the past, the iBright product is sphere only versus sphere and toric, and 50% of the market is toric, 50% is sphere. They have limited clinical experience versus our 3 million implants sold and certainly in China alone, approaching 2 million of implants in eyeballs.

我們非常清楚，我們尊重進入市場的新競爭對手。我認為這確實證實了市場機會仍然具有吸引力且令人興奮。但我們絕不認為我們的經銷商是因為競爭才採取這些行動。正如我們過去所說的那樣，iBright 產品只有球面鏡，而不是球面和散光鏡，而 50% 的市場是散光鏡，50% 是球面鏡。相較之下，他們的臨床經驗有限，而我們銷售的植入物已達 300 萬顆，光在中國，眼球植入物就已接近 200 萬顆。

So clearly, we have a reservoir of good experience with key opinion leaders in country, and our team is well established in maintaining those relationships. So I think iBright will be a factor. They'll probably be sampling and providing product to hospitals, but we believe we're well positioned versus competition. The thing we all need to happen in the largest refractive market in the world is for that market to start to turn. And we think it will by the back half of the year.

顯然，我們與國內關鍵意見領袖有著豐富的經驗，而且我們的團隊在維護這些關係方面也做得很好。所以我認為 iBright 將是一個因素。他們可能會提供樣品並向醫院提供產品，但我們相信，與競爭對手相比，我們處於更有利的地位。我們希望世界上最大的屈光市場能夠開始轉變。我們認為這將在今年下半年實現。

And when it does, we're well positioned to take advantage of it and get back into the kind of trajectory and growth curve that we believe EVO ICL technology deserves.

當它發生時，我們完全有能力利用它並回到我們認為 EVO ICL 技術應有的軌跡和成長曲線。

And to answer your question, Tom, on the first part, it's Patrick. Yes, you are correct. So we did only ship $7.5 million. As a reminder, on our Q3 earnings call on October 30, we did talk about the fact that we were reducing China revenue for the full year, and we took it down from about 10% revenue growth for the full year to about 2%. That was a byproduct of having conversations with our longer-lasting distributor that we've had for over a decade now.

湯姆，回答你問題的第一部分，是派崔克。是的，你說得對。所以我們只運送了 750 萬美元。提醒一下，在 10 月 30 日的第三季財報電話會議上，我們確實談到了減少全年中國業務收入的事實，並將全年收入增長從約 10% 下調至約 2%。這是與我們合作十多年的長期經銷商進行對話的副產品。

I think the business that they support is one that's probably a little bit more steady long term. They took over our biggest end-user customers in China like the [IR Group], [Washaa], Bright Eye, et cetera. Our newer distributor, that's where we did reduce -- we did ship but not recognize the revenue. As a reminder, really what they're focused on is expanding into new territories, opening up new accounts. They've added salespeople to do that.

我認為他們支持的業務從長期來看可能會更加穩定一些。他們接管了我們在中國最大的終端用戶客戶，如[IR Group]、[Washaa]、Bright Eye 等。我們較新的經銷商，我們確實減少了訂單——我們確實發貨了，但沒有確認收入。提醒一下，他們真正關注的是拓展新領域、開拓新帳戶。他們增加了銷售人員來完成這項工作。

They're going into Tier 3 and Tier 4 cities, et cetera. We've always shipped in demand -- shipped in product ahead of demand. And in this situation, as we were having further conversations with them post the shipment in December, it became clear that they requested some very, very extended payment terms, as Tom alluded to. And we just felt that it was not appropriate to recognize that. And so we will recognize it as they make those payments.

他們正在進入三線和四線城市等等。我們始終按照需求出貨－先於需求出貨。在這種情況下，當我們在 12 月發貨後與他們進行進一步交談時，很明顯他們要求非常非常長的付款期限，正如湯姆所提到的那樣。我們只是覺得承認這一點是不合適的。當他們付款時，我們就會確認。

But again, this -- we view this as transitory. This is not going to happen again to your question earlier, we've had clear conversations with both distributors, not just in China, but anywhere in the world that we have a distributor, and we are focused on sell-through now and what we need to drive sell-through.

但同樣，我們認為這只是暫時的。對於您之前的問題，這種情況不會再發生，我們已經與兩家分銷商進行了明確的對話，不僅在中國，而且在世界任何我們有分銷商的地方，我們現在專注於銷售以及我們需要如何推動銷售。

Anthony Petrone, Mizuho.

瑞穗的安東尼‧佩特羅內 (Anthony Petrone)。

I'll stick on China a bit. I guess one on the distributor dynamic. I know you brought in a new distributor and you had a legacy distributor. Was this large order in December, was that the new or the legacy distributor? And I guess to what extent do you actually have month-by-month consumption data of ICL?

我會繼續談論中國。我認為其中一個是關於分銷商動態。我知道您引入了一個新的分銷商，並且您有一個原始分銷商。這是 12 月的大訂單嗎？是新經銷商還是傳統經銷商？我想問一下，您實際上有多少 ICL 的月度消費資料？

Does it mirror sort of the retail sales data that you gave in the deck here on slide 7? In other words, did you have a good October and then things sort of really decelerated again on the ground in China, November, December? And if you do have that data, what have you seen in January, February? And I'll have a quick follow-up.

它是否與您在第 7 張投影片中提供的零售銷售數據相似？換句話說，你們的 10 月經濟是否還不錯，然後 11 月、12 月中國國內經濟是否又開始放緩？如果您確實有這些數據，那麼您在一月和二月看到了什麼？我會快速跟進。

Sure. So actually, I tried to allude to it on the last answer that I just gave. The order that was specific that we will be recognized revenue in Q3 of 2025, that was related to our newer distributor. And as I said, I think there's reasons behind that. Notably, we've addressed those moving forward, but they are focused on moving into other accounts, expanding, et cetera, Tier 3 and Tier 4 cities.

當然。實際上，我試圖在剛才的回答中提及這一點。該命令具體規定我們將在 2025 年第三季確認收入，這與我們較新的經銷商有關。正如我所說，我認為背後是有原因的。值得注意的是，我們已經解決了這些問題，但他們的重點是進入其他帳戶、擴張等等，三線和四線城市。

In terms of your question on sell-through data, Tom made some comments on that as well. We are continuing to fine-tune that. And what I would tell you is even in a down market in 2024, where we believe the overall China refractive market was down 15%, we believe we held our own and continue to take market share based on the sell-through data that we look at. In terms of March -- or I'm sorry, sorry, in terms of January, we have seen an uptick in that number. We'll call it, mid-single-digit year-over-year growth.

關於您關於銷售數據的問題，湯姆也對此發表了一些評論。我們正在繼續對此進行微調。我想告訴您的是，即使在 2024 年市場低迷的情況下，我們認為中國整體折光市場將下降 15%，但我們相信我們能夠保持自己的地位，並根據我們所看到的銷售數據繼續佔據市場份額。就三月而言——或者抱歉，就一月份而言，我們看到該數字有所上升。我們稱之為中等個位數的同比增長。

One month doesn't make a trend. But what I would say is we are cautiously optimistic. But at this point, we will continue to monitor that. And I think it's fair to say that you all asking us that question on what we're seeing with our sell-through data is completely reasonable, and we will provide updates on what we're seeing because that is going to be the basis of what the rebound looks like in the second half. And again, I want to reiterate, our underlying assumption for China is still minus 10% refractive market all the way up to 10%, which is the basis of that large revenue range of $75 million to $125 million.

一個月的時間並不能形成一種趨勢。但我想說的是，我們保持謹慎樂觀的態度。但目前，我們將繼續監控此事。我認為，公平地說，你們所有人就我們的銷售數據向我們提出這個問題是完全合理的，我們將提供有關我們所看到的最新情況，因為這將成為下半年反彈的基礎。我想再次重申，我們對中國屈光市場的預測仍然是從-10%上升到10%，這是7,500萬美元到1.25億美元巨額收入範圍的基礎。

And again, Anthony, I would just reiterate that our focus now going forward in China, in particular, but anywhere where we compete in a distributor market is to closely monitor and manage and incent sell-through, not sell-in. And I think that behavior change, if you will, together with better quality data that we're now generating, I think, gives us all a lot of confidence that this was an anomaly, won't happen again, and we're going to manage our business for the long-term growth that it represents.

安東尼，我再次重申，我們現在的重點特別是在中國，但在任何我們參與分銷市場競爭的地方，我們都會密切監控、管理和激勵銷售，而不是銷售到客戶。我認為，這種行為的改變，加上我們現在產生的更高品質的數據，讓我們所有人都充滿信心，這只是一個異常現象，不會再發生，我們將管理我們的業務，實現它所代表的長期成長。

Appreciate that. And a quick follow-up here is just sort of on some of the policy announcements that we've seen. And so actually on the Apple call a few weeks ago, Tim Cook actually disclosed that there was a stimulus package released January 20, and then the expectation is that the first week of March, the Economic Ministry in China will announce a broader package. Do those dates line up? Have you heard anything similar to that?

非常感謝。這裡的快速跟進只是針對我們已經看到的一些政策公告。實際上，在幾週前的蘋果電話會議上，蒂姆庫克實際上透露，1 月 20 日發布了一項刺激計劃，然後預計 3 月第一周，中國經濟部將宣布一項更廣泛的計劃。這些日期一致嗎？你聽過類似的事情嗎？

And then just your high-level comments on the evolving trade war that we're seeing. How does that factor into your minus 10, plus 10 guidance?

然後就是您對我們正在看到的不斷發展的貿易戰的高層評論。這對您的減 10 和加 10 指導有何影響？

Yes. I think what you mentioned, we're reading the same news and are aligned to those dates in January and March, and we'll see what comes of that. So again, I think by the second half of the year, stimulus should have an impact. And as it does, I think we're going to be pleasantly surprised to see things get back to normal and be optimistic about it as we move forward. January is encouraging, as Patrick said, let's see -- not high season, but the Chinese New Year hit in early February.

是的。我想正如您所提到的，我們正在閱讀相同的新聞，並且與一月和三月的日期一致，我們將看看結果如何。所以，我認為到今年下半年，刺激措施應該會產生效果。同時，我想我們會驚訝地看到一切恢復正常，並對此感到樂觀。正如帕特里克所說，一月份是令人鼓舞的，讓我們看看——雖然不是旺季，但二月初就迎來了農曆新年。

We'll look at January and February combination. If that trend continues, that's another encouraging sign. So we're keeping our ear to the ground and trying to read the tea leaves just like everybody else.

讓我們來看看一月和二月的組合。如果這種趨勢持續下去，那將是另一個令人鼓舞的跡象。因此，我們會像其他人一樣，時時保持警惕，試圖預測未來。

And what we're seeing is there's definitely savings with the consumer patient in China. We know that there's money that they can spend. We eagerly await to see what sort of stimulus or policies that the government is going to put in place to stimulate higher consumer confidence. But the reality is people are just simply not getting refractive procedures right now in China. We do continue to take market share, and we believe this can rebound, and we have data points that say that it can come back.

我們看到的是，中國的消費者患者確實節省了開支。我們知道他們有錢可以花。我們熱切期待看到政府將採取何種刺激措施或政策來增強消費者信心。但現實情況是，在中國，人們目前根本沒有接受屈光手術。我們確實繼續佔領市場份額，我們相信市場份額可以反彈，而且我們有數據點表明市場份額可以反彈。

So we've tried to put some bounds around that. We're not being overly bullish in our opinion on what the overall refractive market. Again, that's the low end of our range of minus 10%. We do have a little bit of a rebound on the high end. I know I've said this already, but that is the basis of the wide range for China.

因此我們嘗試對此設定一些界限。我們對整體折射市場的看法並不太樂觀。再次強調，這是我們-10%範圍的低端。我們的高階確實出現了一點點反彈。我知道我已經說過了，但這就是中國廣泛範圍的基礎。

Macauley Kilbane, William Blair.

麥考利·基爾班，威廉·布萊爾。

This is Macauley on for Margarate tonight. I wanted to continue the trend here and follow up on the China guidance. I understand the guide doesn't include any pricing benefit from EVO+, but you already have some lower volumes on what would become a lower price, call it, first-gen EVO. And as you mentioned, a competitor expected to enter the market this year. So I guess, what gives you that confidence other than potentially a variable input in the stimulus even on the high and the low end of that guide, as you mentioned, Patrick?

今晚，麥考利 (Macauley) 為 Margarate 主持節目。我想延續這一趨勢並跟進中國的指導。我知道該指南不包括 EVO + 的任何定價優惠，但你已經有了一些較低的銷量，可以將其稱為第一代 EVO。正如您所說，競爭對手預計今年將進入市場。所以我想，除了像您提到的那樣，刺激措施中可能存在的可變輸入（即使在該指南的高端和低端）之外，還有什麼能讓您有如此大的信心，帕特里克？

And then just as a follow-up, Tom, you mentioned some of those KOL relationships, and I appreciate the team has been traveling out to China more than they have in the past. But I think we have heard this tale of 2 cities before. So I guess what gives you -- or I guess, what more can you do from a visibility standpoint to kind of help those improvements become more sustainable beyond just that second half as we look longer term and bigger picture?

然後作為後續問題，湯姆，您提到了一些 KOL 關係，我很欣賞團隊比過去更多地前往中國。但我想我們以前就聽過這兩個城市的故事。所以我想問一下，從可見性的角度來看，您能做些什麼來幫助這些改進變得更加可持續，而不僅僅是在下半年，因為我們著眼於更長遠和更大範圍？

Look, at the end of the day, this business boils down to good relationships. And I think we have those in China at the KOL level. And as we listen to the news and better understand stimulus that could come, we believe we're well positioned. We've said all along that challenges are transitory. It's not a fundamental problem with a business model or a product performance level.

瞧，歸根結底，這項業務歸結於良好的關係。我認為我們在中國擁有 KOL 級別的人才。當我們聆聽新聞並更好地了解可能出現的刺激措施時，我們相信我們已做好準備。我們一直說，挑戰是暫時的。這不是商業模式或產品性能水準的根本問題。

We know we have a great product, a unique material and polymer. We have a history of great outcomes. Myopia is not going away. People continue to need vision correction. And as consumer confidence returns as a result of China stimulus, we think the business is going to turn.

我們知道我們擁有優質的產品、獨特的材料和聚合物。我們有著輝煌的業績歷史。近視不會消失。人們仍然需要視力矯正。隨著消費者信心受中國刺激計劃影響而恢復，我們認為業務將會好轉。

Now whether that's Q2, whether that's Q3, whether that's Q4, thus the range of minus 10 to plus 10. We're trying to be thoughtful about what could happen. And we know we're going to be working with our distributor partners to manage down inventory. That's a positive. And as the market rebounds, we believe revenue will pick up accordingly as that inventory gets back to normal levels in terms of how we can service the market in an appropriate way.

現在無論是 Q2、Q3 或 Q4，範圍都是從負 10 到正 10。我們正在盡力思考可能發生的情況。我們知道我們將與我們的經銷商合作夥伴合作來減少庫存。這是積極的。隨著市場反彈，我們相信，隨著庫存恢復到正常水平，以及我們能夠以適當的方式服務市場，收入也會隨之增加。

And to follow up on EVO+, again, as we work down these elevated inventory levels, that would be associated with EVO product. And so as we launch EVO+, which we have right now in the middle of 2025, to be fair, we want to make sure that we're thoughtful about what we incorporate in guidance. In this case, we did not incorporate any potential upside related to EVO+ being launched from an ASP standpoint. We do need to see what the competitor is going to do, and we're watching that closely. So it could be potential upside, as I said in my prepared comments, and we did not factor it into the guidance, and we'll provide commentary as we move closer and better understand exactly what the competitor is doing out there.

再次跟進 EVO +，當我們降低這些高庫存水準時，這將與 EVO 產品相關。因此，當我們推出 EVO+ 時（目前預計在 2025 年中期），公平地說，我們希望確保我們仔細考慮在指導中納入的內容。在這種情況下，我們沒有從 ASP 的角度考慮與 EVO+ 推出相關的任何潛在上升空間。我們確實需要了解競爭對手將要做什麼，我們正在密切關注。因此，正如我在準備好的評論中所說的那樣，這可能是潛在的上升空間，我們沒有將其納入指導範圍，我們將在進一步了解並更好地了解競爭對手的具體動向後提供評論。

Patrick Wood, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的派崔克‧伍德 (Patrick Wood)。

And for the record, having a wide range on the guide is totally fair enough given what you have in the forecast. So totally fair enough on that. I guess my first one is you guys alluded to tariffs a few times. Just -- I know it's impossible because you don't really know the lay of the land. But how conceptually are you thinking about how things could evolve there and how your supply chain could or might not be impacted?

並且根據記錄，考慮到預測結果，指南中有一個廣泛的範圍是完全公平的。這一點完全公平。我想我的第一個問題是你們幾次提到關稅。只是——我知道這是不可能的，因為你並不真正了解當地的情況。但是，您從概念上如何思考那裡的情況會如何發展，以及您的供應鏈會受到或不會受到什麼影響？

Well, again, as we've said in the past, we have our Switzerland facility gearing up. And our plan when the EVO+ product is approved midyear in China, we're going to begin shipping product in from Switzerland, which certainly minimizes the impact of tariffs whatever they end up being. Plus with inventory in country already, that also provides a little bit of insulation from what can happen on a go-forward basis relative to tariffs. So we think we're certainly not 100% immune, but we think we're fairly well insulated from what could happen geopolitically.

好吧，正如我們過去所說的那樣，我們的瑞士工廠正在加緊準備。我們的計劃是，當 EVO+ 產品在今年年中在中國獲得批准時，我們將開始從瑞士運送產品，這無疑將最大限度地減少關稅的影響，無論關稅最終是什麼。此外，由於國內已有庫存，這也在一定程度上避免了未來與關稅相關的潛在影響。因此，我們認為我們當然不是 100% 免疫的，但我們認為我們相當能夠免受地緣政治影響。

And from a supply chain standpoint, I can tell you that we are highly vertically integrated. To build our products, it's a few raw materials, porcine and some chemicals. Those are all sourced from the United States. So any of the news that you're hearing about tariffs, not just with China but other parts of the world, we do not see that we will have any material impact at all. Once again, vertically integrated and virtually anything that matters is sourced within the United States.

從供應鏈的角度來看，我可以告訴你，我們是高度垂直整合的。為了製造我們的產品，需要一些原料、豬肉和一些化學物質。這些都是來自美國的。因此，您聽到的任何有關關稅的消息，不僅是針對中國，而且針對世界其他地區，我們都認為不會產生任何實質影響。再一次，垂直整合，幾乎所有重要的東西都來自美國境內。

Super helpful. And then as a quick follow-up, I mean, imagine a world where the guide kind of pans out exactly for '25 -- exactly as you've left the road map. How do you feel sort of midway through the year, the inventory rate in China would be? Because there's obviously quite a lot that's getting taken out of your customers' inventory just because of the amount of sell-in versus sell-out. How -- like are we going to be at very low inventory levels or relatively normalized, even just qualitatively would be super helpful here.

超有幫助。然後作為一個快速的跟進，我的意思是，想像一個世界，其中的指南完全按照 '25 進行 - 就像你離開路線圖時一樣。您覺得今年中期中國的庫存率會如何？因為顯然有很多商品會從客戶的庫存中被拿走，只是因為賣出量與賣出量之間的比例。如何——例如，我們將處於非常低的庫存水平或相對正常化，即使只是從品質上講，也會非常有幫助。

Yes, it's a fair question. And clearly, with us not shipping in a lot of revenue for 2 quarters, I think most people can probably do a back of the napkin to say, perhaps you've got elevated inventories upwards of 6 months or 2 quarters. And so what we've tried to take into account is a situation of that large range, once again, of minus 10% to plus 10% over the overall refractive market, which is the basis of how much additional revenue would we potentially ship in. Clearly, if we're in the high end, what we're looking to do -- whether we're on the high end or low end, Patrick, what we're looking to do is work down our inventory levels back down to the contractual levels that are in the contract with both distributors, which we believe is the appropriate amount in order to provide the ultimate service that we need to, which is really same-day lenses or next-day lenses throughout the country of China.

是的，這是一個合理的問題。顯然，由於我們在兩個季度內沒有實現太多的收入，我想大多數人都可以在紙巾背面寫下，也許你的庫存已經超過 6 個月或兩個季度了。因此，我們試圖考慮的是整個屈光市場中從負 10% 到正 10% 的大範圍變化情況，這是我們可能獲得多少額外收入的基礎。顯然，如果我們處於高端，那麼我們希望做的——無論我們處於高端還是低端，帕特里克，我們希望做的就是將我們的庫存水平降低到與兩個分銷商簽訂的合同水平，我們認為這是適當的數量，以便提供我們所需要的最終服務，即真正意義上的當日或次日在中國全國範圍內提供鏡片。

Steve Lichtman, Oppenheimer.

奧本海默的史蒂夫·利希特曼。

I wanted to build on that last point, Patrick. So in the first half here, what kind of end market growth do you need to see in order for you to work down that inventory so that you can start recognizing revenue in the third quarter? So that's question one. I'll ask the second question as well. On G&A, it would seem that, that would be a little more in your control, so why the wide range on G&A as you look through the quarters here?

我想進一步闡述最後一點，派崔克。那麼在上半年，您需要看到什麼樣的終端市場成長才能減少庫存，以便您可以在第三季開始確認收入？這是第一個問題。我也會問第二個問題。對於 G&A 而言，看起來，這應該更容易由您控制，那麼，當您查看這裡的季度時，為什麼 G&A 的範圍會這麼大？

Sure. So let me start backwards and go back to the -- your original question. On the G&A side of it, really what it relates to mostly is as we reset all the targets and everything coming into 2025, there's a large component related to stock-based compensation and what I would call other variable compensation. So that's what you're seeing on the G&A side. But rest assured, that's on the high end.

當然。所以讓我從頭開始，回到你最初的問題。就 G&A 方面而言，它真正涉及的主要內容是，當我們重新設定所有目標以及 2025 年的所有事項時，其中很大一部分與股票薪酬以及我所說的其他可變薪酬有關。這就是您在 G&A 方面看到的。但請放心，這已經是高端的了。

If you look at the low end of the guidance, we are managing that, which means there wouldn't be an achievement of some of that. When it comes to your question on what would we need to see in the market, again, if the overall refractive market is down 10%, we assume that we would take some market share, that would be the byproduct of us hitting the low end or $75 million.

如果你看一下指導的低端，我們正在管理這一點，這意味著其中一些目標不會實現。當談到你關於我們需要在市場上看到什麼的問題時，同樣，如果整體折射市場下降 10%，我們假設我們將佔據一些市場份額，這將是我們觸及低端或 7500 萬美元的副產品。

We may ship sooner. If we see the market rebound, if January is any indication of where it could go, and that continues and is sustained, you may see some incremental revenue in Q2. But for now, what we're doing is we're focused on really, let's manage the inventory level down. And if we can hold our own as we're seeing right now and see some spikes, then we will be on the higher end of that range, but it's yet to be determined at this point.

我們可能會提前發貨。如果我們看到市場反彈，如果一月份的表現可以預示市場走向，並且這種反彈持續下去，那麼您可能會在第二季度看到一些增量收入。但就目前而言，我們真正關注的是降低庫存水準。如果我們能夠保持目前的狀態並看到一些峰值，那麼我們將處於該範圍的高端，但目前尚未確定。

Jim Sidoti, Sidoti & Co.

西多蒂（Jim Sidoti），西多蒂公司（Sidoti & Co.）

Can you talk about your cash burn for a little while? It looks like you expect to burn to about $70 million in cash in the year, which is above the operating loss you expect based on the guidance you've given. So where is the cash going to go?

能簡單談談您的現金消耗嗎？看起來您預計今年的現金消耗將達到約 7,000 萬美元，高於根據您給出的指導預計的經營虧損。那麼現金流將流向何處？

Yes. So it's Patrick here. So again, we have a pretty wide range on our revenue, right? And getting back to the China range of $75 million to $125 million, that's a $50 million range of revenue that doesn't take much incremental OpEx to support it. So in other words, it's a high translation of contribution margin.

是的。派崔克就在這裡。那麼，我們的收入範圍相當廣泛，對嗎？回到中國 7,500 萬美元到 1.25 億美元的範圍，這是一個 5,000 萬美元的收入範圍，不需要太多的增量營運支出來支持它。換句話說，這是貢獻毛利的高轉換。

So if you apply a 70% to 75% gross margin to that, you're getting some very strong translation. So that's part of it. And on the low end, what I tried to provide is we will -- forecasting to exit the year at between $150 million to $175 million, and that's to take into account that large range of the China revenue. In terms of what the cash usage will be, look, we're -- our AR is being worked down. It's all fully collectible.

因此，如果您將毛利率提高到 70% 到 75%，那麼您將獲得非常強勁的業績。這就是其中的一部分。而就最低端而言，我試圖提供的是，我們預計今年的銷售額將在 1.5 億至 1.75 億美元之間，這是考慮到中國市場的大部分收入。就現金使用情況而言，看，我們的應收帳款正在減少。所有這些都是完全值得收藏的。

We do have some CapEx that we need to complete, notably completing the manufacturing expansion and some of the infrastructure improvements. We did say $15 million approximately of CapEx in 2025. That is a reduction from prior years. And of course, just managing our working capital, which is primarily related to what I would call inventory. Again, because we do have elevated inventory levels, you'll see some of that as we go through and produce our 10-K, we are managing down some of our raw material inventory, which obviously results in finished goods, et cetera.

我們確實有一些需要完成的資本支出，特別是完成製造業擴張和一些基礎設施改善。我們確實說過 2025 年的資本支出約為 1500 萬美元。這比前幾年有所減少。當然，只是管理我們的營運資金，這主要與我所說的庫存有關。再說一次，因為我們的庫存水準確實有所提高，你會看到，在我們生產 10-K 的過程中，我們正在減少一些原材料庫存，這顯然會導致成品的減少，等等。

Did I -- the math should work, Jim. I know we've put a lot on you guys to try to model in a short period of time. Happy to catch up with you on the after calls if we need to, to make sure that you see where all the moving parts are.

我做了嗎 — — 數學應該有效，吉姆。我知道我們對你們在短時間內樹立榜樣抱有很大期望。如果需要的話，我們很樂意在通話後與您聯繫，以確保您了解所有活動部件的位置。

All right. So it sounds like everything else, it really depends on what happens in China in the second half of the year. If that business picks up, the cash burn would be significantly lower.

好的。因此，這聽起來和其他一切一樣，實際上取決於今年下半年中國發生的情況。如果該業務復甦，現金消耗將會顯著降低。

Yes, clearly is the largest market in refractive surgery and the fact that a large portion of our revenue depends on China, yes, it does, right, to your point, Jim. But let me remind everybody on the call, as we indicated in our prepared remarks and in our press release, we're growing ex China and even ex in Asia Pacific region, we're growing double digits. Japan, South Korea, India, EMEA, the Americas. We are growing. So as we think about how we're managing cash, how we're managing our operating expenses, we've tried to strike a proper balance.

是的，顯然中國是屈光手術最大的市場，而且我們有很大一部分的收入依賴中國，是的，確實如此，正如你所說，吉姆。但讓我提醒電話會議上的每個人，正如我們在準備好的演講和新聞稿中所指出的那樣，我們在中國甚至亞太地區以外的地區都實現了兩位數的增長。日本、韓國、印度、歐洲、中東和非洲地區、美洲。我們正在成長。因此，當我們思考如何管理現金、如何管理營運費用時，我們試圖取得適當的平衡。

So we're supporting those markets where we're growing. We're certainly kind of entrenching ourselves in markets that aren't growing and trying to be thoughtful about where we want to invest, are we going to get a reasonable return on that investment. So I think let's not lose sight that we are growing and the fact that we have, over the years, built up a strong balance sheet with no debt certainly serves us well to manage through the transitory nature of the challenges that we're facing here. We believe on the optimistic side that it's a two-quarter challenge. Whether it's a two-quarter or three-quarter or for that matter, a four-quarter challenge, we're still able, because of our strong balance sheet to manage through this, come out the other side, a stronger organization and be prepared to get back to the growth trajectories and cash generation our business model produces.

因此，我們正在支持那些我們正在發展的市場。我們確實在那些沒有成長的市場中站穩了腳跟，並試圖認真考慮我們想要投資的地方，我們是否會從投資中獲得合理的回報。因此，我認為，我們不要忽視我們正在成長，而且多年來，我們已經建立了強大的資產負債表，沒有債務，這一事實無疑有助於我們應對目前面臨的暫時性挑戰。我們樂觀地認為，這是一個持續兩季的挑戰。無論是兩個季度、三個季度，還是四個季度的挑戰，憑藉強勁的資產負債表，我們仍然能夠渡過難關，成為一個更強大的組織，並準備回到我們的商業模式所產生的成長軌跡和現金創造中。

And that was my next question. So despite the issues in China, it sounds like you're going full speed ahead with some of your marketing initiatives in the US and Europe. Is that right?

這是我的下一個問題。因此，儘管在中國存在一些問題，但聽起來你們正在全速推進在美國和歐洲的一些行銷舉措。是嗎？

Absolutely.

絕對地。

Matthew O'Brien, Piper Sandler.

馬修·奧布萊恩、派珀·桑德勒。

This is Phil on for Matt. I was just hoping to get -- go back on to the discussion with consumer confidence. It goes without saying that China's consumer confidence has been depressed for some time. We've been talking about it for 2 years. Why did refractive volumes take so long to kind of lag that broader economy given the slowdown you saw rapidly in Q4?

這是菲爾 (Phil) 取代馬特 (Matt)。我只是希望──重新回到消費者信心的討論上。毋庸置疑，中國的消費者信心已經低迷一段時間了。我們已經討論這個問題兩年了。考慮到第四季經濟迅速放緩，為什麼折射量需要這麼長時間才能落後於整體經濟？

And what does your current guidance imply as far as refractive volumes kind of coming back quicker than maybe consumer confidence might imply given that it was lagging before? And then just hoping to get your color on how you really triangulated on 10% volume declines on the low end as being appropriate.

鑑於先前屈光度回升速度有所滯後，您目前的指導意見認為屈光度回升速度是否會比消費者信心回升速度更快？然後只是希望得到您關於如何真正對低端 10% 的成交量下降進行三角測量以判斷其是否合適的顏色。

Yes. I think I'll start with the consumer confidence piece, right? So yes, there -- I can't speak to maybe some of your specific questions, but I think with the refractive market, what we're seeing is myopia is not going away. China is the largest refractive market. There's a higher incidence of myopia.

是的。我想我將從消費者信心部分開始，對嗎？是的，我可能無法回答您的一些具體問題，但我認為，在屈光市場，我們看到的近視並沒有消失。中國是最大的屈光市場。近視的發生率較高。

It happens at a younger age, and we continue to see the demographic of those people to continue to grow. And so I think it just gets back down to that people love the EVO procedure. One out of every five eyes is getting an EVO in their eyes. And so that's probably why we might have been a little bit more resilient. I think as consumer confidence comes back, we will absolutely see an uptick in our refractive models.

這種現象發生在較年輕的族群中，我們看到這類人群的數量持續成長。所以我認為這又回到了人們喜歡 EVO 程式的問題。每五隻眼睛中就有一隻眼睛會受到 EVO 的影響。這可能就是為什麼我們能夠變得更有韌性的原因。我認為，隨著消費者信心的恢復，我們絕對會看到折射模型的上升。

I want to reiterate to everyone, procedures are still happening today. EVOs are happening today. Refractive procedures are happening today. We just have to work through these elevated inventory levels as a transitory nature. In terms of how we came up with the minus 10% to the plus 10% for the refractive market, look, I think for us, we believe the China market was down 15%, 15% overall refractive in 2024.

我想向大家重申，今天程序仍在進行中。EVO 正在今天發生。今天正在進行屈光手術。我們只需要暫時解決這些高庫存水準的問題。至於我們如何得出屈光市場下降 10% 到上升 10% 的結論，我認為對我們來說，我們認為中國市場在 2024 年整體屈光市場將下降 15%，即 15%。

Obviously, our sell-in revenue that we recognize, we are shipping product in ahead of demand and consumption for the sell-through. Clearly, as we ship that in, inventory levels have risen, and therefore, we're working them down. With that said, we believe that the low end will be continuing to see some depression, especially in the first half. But we also think that the government is going to do everything they can in China to stimulate consumer confidence.

顯然，我們確認的銷售收入，是在需求和消費之前運送產品以實現銷售的。顯然，當我們發貨時，庫存水準已經上升，因此，我們正在降低庫存水準。話雖如此，我們認為低端市場將繼續受到抑制，尤其是在上半年。但我們也認為，中國政府將盡一切努力刺激消費者信心。

We heard earlier someone talk about Apple mentioning that in early January. That happened to focus more on electronics and specifically cell phones, but we do believe the government will look at other areas to stimulate consumer confidence across the board.

我們之前就聽到有人說蘋果在一月初就提到過這一點。這項政策的重點恰好是電子產品，尤其是手機，但我們確實相信政府將會關注其他領域，以全面刺激消費者信心。

That's helpful. And then one quick follow-up. As far as the inventory being related to the new distributor focused more on lower-level prefectures, any way this might be a canary in a coal mine as far as China Tier 1 cities go, the Beijing, the Shanghai, that sort of thing?

這很有幫助。然後進行一次快速的跟進。就與新經銷商相關的庫存而言，其主要關注的是下級縣，這對中國一線城市（如北京、上海等）來說可能是預兆嗎？

No. If anything, clearly, those big cities will probably rebound quicker. We are making efforts to move into Tier 3 and Tier 4 because we believe there's some low to mid-hanging fruit out there of patients that want to get the procedure that don't want to necessarily take the time to travel to the big cities. And so that was one of the reasons why we went with the newer distributor that has that large network into the countryside and Tier 3 and Tier 4 cities, et cetera.

不。顯然，如果有什麼不同的話，這些大城市可能會反彈得更快。我們正在努力進入第 3 級和第 4 級市場，因為我們相信，有些患者希望接受這種手術，但又不願意花時間前往大城市，因此他們可以獲得較低或中等的治療效果。這就是我們選擇與在農村、三線、四線城市等地擁有龐大網路的新經銷商合作的原因之一。

John Young, Canaccord.

約翰楊 (John Young)，Canaccord。

Pardon any background noise I'm taking the call from the airport. First, just on China. I want to focus on your field force that you have on the ground today. We haven't really spoken about them yet. But what feedback have you heard from your own sales force?

請原諒我的背景噪音，我正在機場接聽電話。首先，僅談中國。我想重點談談你們今天在實地部署的部隊。我們還沒有真正談論過他們。但是您從自己的銷售人員那裡聽到了什麼回饋呢？

And maybe how you incentivize them differently to help manage the dynamic with the distributors? And I'll ask my second question, too. It was nice to see the return to quarter-over-quarter growth in the US. How many Fast Lane accounts today are you at? And just any updates on the US growth initiatives you've highlighted in the past in relation to the cost savings measures you're speaking about today?

您是否可以採取不同的激勵措施來幫助他們管理與經銷商之間的關係？我還要問第二個問題。很高興看到美國經濟恢復季度環比成長。您目前擁有多少個 Fast Lane 帳戶？與您今天談到的成本節約措施相關的、您過去強調的美國成長舉措有何更新？

Yes. No, I appreciate it, John, for the question. Relative to China and our distribution channel there, as you've heard us say in the past, we have roughly 100 people on the ground in a variety of capacities around training, selling, clinical application support. And clearly, the focus in China with our own people has been constantly on training and demand creation. So we're going to continue to focus in those areas.

是的。不，約翰，我很感謝你提出這個問題。相對於中國和我們在那裡的分銷管道，正如您過去聽到我們所說的，我們在當地大約有 100 名員工，負責培訓、銷售、臨床應用支援等各種職務。顯然，我們在中國對自己員工的關注點一直都是培訓和創造需求。因此我們將繼續關注這些領域。

But as you heard us allude to earlier in this call, one of the changes is to really now incent the behavior on sell-through, not sell-in to our distributors, but now making sure that we're really paying attention at the ground level on execution against procedures as opposed to just selling in. It's got to be about sell-through and really focusing our teams on true demand creation, working directly with the accounts as well as working closer with our distribution partners.

但是，正如您在本次電話會議早些時候聽到我們提到的那樣，其中一項變化是真正激勵銷售行為，而不是向我們的分銷商銷售，而是現在確保我們真正關注基層程序的執行，而不僅僅是銷售。這必須與銷售有關，並真正讓我們的團隊專注於創造真正的需求，直接與客戶合作，並與我們的分銷夥伴更緊密地合作。

Yes. And I would say that I'll answer the US growth as well, but just to piggyback off of Tom on China, it's all hands on deck. Our Chief Operating Officer, Warren Foust, just came back from China. He's given a great download.

是的。我想說，我也會回答美國的成長問題，但只是為了搭上湯姆在中國的順風車，我們必須全力以赴。我們的營運長沃倫·福斯特剛從中國回來。他提供了出色的下載。

Many of us are headed back over there. And clearly, as Tom said, we are highly focused on what we need to do to move the needle in China, especially with sell-through and working closely with our distributors. We also have an opportunity with EVO+ coming out here shortly to collaborate and open up terms with our distributors as we move forward. And so that will be a big part of what we do going forward. We think there's opportunity there for economics as well as if we want to change behavior and incentivize differently.

我們中的許多人已經返回那裡。顯然，正如湯姆所說，我們高度專注於我們需要採取的措施來推動中國市場的發展，特別是在銷售和與我們的經銷商密切合作方面。我們也有機會透過即將推出的 EVO+ 與我們的經銷商合作並建立合作夥伴關係。所以這將是我們今後工作的重心。我們認為，如果我們想改變行為並採取不同的激勵措施，那麼這對經濟來說就存在機會。

Related to US, thank you for mentioning it. It did have a strong quarter to end the year. As we said in our underlying comments, we still think that the US market has some pressure in it for overall refractive, 5%, maybe 10% down year over year, which is clearly not a rebound. We continue to take market share, but we've moderated our overall growth on a year-over-year basis to approximately 15%.

與美國相關，感謝您提及它。它確實在年底迎來了一個強勁的季度。正如我們在基礎評論中所說，我們仍然認為美國市場在整體折射方面面臨一些壓力，比去年同期下降 5% 甚至 10%，這顯然不是反彈。我們繼續佔領市場份額，但整體成長率年減至約 15%。

We do have about 13 Fast Lanes now out of the -- I think it's a little more than US high of 93 now. But we started off the year at around zero, and we do have a new way to segment our customers, and that has continued into 2025. And we just came back from our big national sales meeting where there was a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of excitement. The team is ready to go out there and see what we can do to continue to move down the diopter curve. And I think importantly, as Tom likes to say, is what can we do to build the pie again, right?

我們現在確實有大約 13 個快速通道 — — 我認為它比美國目前的最高速度 93 個要多一點。但我們今年的起點大約是零，我們確實有一種新的方式來細分我們的客戶，而這種方法將延續到 2025 年。我們剛結束了大型全國銷售會議，會上大家的熱情和興奮之情溢於言表。團隊已做好準備，看看我們能做些什麼來繼續降低屈光度曲線。我認為重要的是，正如湯姆喜歡說的，我們能做些什麼來再次打造這個蛋糕，對嗎？

Yes. And I think that point should be even emphasized more. Look, clearly, laser vision correction, particularly in a market like the US, but I'd say globally around the world, has been in steady decline. We referred to it jokingly as a melting ice cream cone. And yes, we're taking share.

是的。我認為應該要更加強調這一點。顯然，雷射視力矯正，特別是在美國這樣的市場，但我想說，在全球範圍內，一直在穩步下降。我們開玩笑地把它稱為融化的冰淇淋甜筒。是的，我們正在佔據份額。

But you know what, we have to get into the business of building the pie back up. We'll continue to take share. We'll outpace the current refractive market, but we need to engage more contact lens wearers and spectacle wearers to opt for a lens-based refractive procedure versus a corneal-based procedure. So in 2025, we have new initiatives geared towards the optometric community, educating them on the benefits of lens-based refractive surgery generically, the fact that we're not severing corneal nerves. We're not inducing dry eye.

但你知道嗎，我們必須重新投入打造蛋糕的工作。我們將繼續佔據份額。我們將超越目前的屈光市場，但我們需要讓更多的隱形眼鏡配戴者和眼鏡配戴者選擇基於鏡片的屈光手術，而不是基於角膜的手術。因此，在 2025 年，我們將針對驗光界推出新的舉措，向他們普及基於晶狀體的屈光手術的益處，以及我們不會切斷角膜神經的事實。我們沒有引起乾眼症。

It's a removable technology, preserve the integrity of cornea for future considerations, et cetera, et cetera. And I believe part of our focus in 2025 is to bring more people into refractive surgery because as you've heard us say and some of you have alluded to, the markets continue to decline. We believe we'll take advantage of that because we think we have better medicine, as well as better business, and we'll continue to take share. But I think we have to grow the pie as well, and we're focused on doing that.

這是一項可拆卸的技術，可以保留角膜的完整性以供將來考慮等等。我相信，我們 2025 年的重點之一是讓更多的人接受屈光手術，因為正如我們所聽到的以及你們中的一些人所提到的，市場正在持續下滑。我們相信我們會利用這一點，因為我們認為我們擁有更好的藥物以及更好的業務，我們將繼續佔據市場份額。但我認為我們也必須擴大市場份額，我們正專注於做到這一點。

We obviously have a head-to-head study that we've kicked off in the US, staying on a US track here. We're about 50% enrolled in that. We think full enrollment will be completed by the end of Q1, and we think that's going to be further evidence of demonstrating the future is lens-based as opposed to corneal based when it comes to vision correction. So the China issue has been a gut punch. There's no doubt about that.

顯然，我們已經在美國啟動了一項面對面的研究，並將繼續在美國進行研究。我們大約有 50% 的人參加了該活動。我們認為全面的招募將在第一季末完成，並且我們認為這將進一步證明未來視力矯正是基於晶狀體的，而不是基於角膜的。因此，中國問題令人深感震驚。毫無疑問。

Nobody is happy that this occurred. But it is transitory. We believe we have a balance sheet that can manage it. We believe myopia is still a great growth opportunity for us to continue to build our business. We believe we have the best technology.

沒有人對這樣的事情發生感到高興。但這只是暫時的。我們相信我們擁有可以管理它的資產負債表。我們相信，近視對於我們繼續發展業務來說仍然是一個巨大的成長機會。我們相信我們擁有最好的技術。

We believe we have the best people, and it's keeping our head down, manage through this adversity, come out the other side stronger and get back to the kind of growth initiatives that you and we have come to expect.

我們相信，我們擁有最優秀的人才，我們會埋頭苦幹，渡過難關，變得更加強大，恢復到您和我們所期望的那種增長計劃。

David Saxon, Needham & Co.

撒克遜（David Saxon），Needham & Co.

I wanted to follow up on that $28 million order. I thought you typically recognize revenue on shipment into China. Patrick, you seem to be suggesting you could recognize that sooner than the third quarter you talked about. So what do you need to see in order to recognize that revenue? Is it actual payment or some other milestone? And then the China guide, Tom, I wasn't really clear on a previous answer. Like what, if any, impact is assumed in guidance from iBright? And then I'll have a follow-up.

我想跟進那筆價值2800萬美元的訂單。我以為您通常是在發貨到中國時確認收入。帕特里克，你似乎暗示你可以比你談到的第三季度更早地認識到這一點。那麼為了確認該收入你需要看到什麼呢？這是實際付款還是其他里程碑？然後是中國導遊湯姆，我對之前的回答不是很清楚。例如，iBright 的指導中假設了什麼影響（如果有的話）？然後我會跟進。

Sure. Let me try to answer the iBright situation. Again, I think they've gone on record of saying they think they're going to do somewhere around $5 million worth of revenue in their first year. Obviously, relative to our business in China, whether it's in this current state or in our historic state, that's a small part of the pie. So we believe, given the economic realities in that market, it's tough to be launching a brand-new product.

當然。讓我試著回答一下 iBright 的情況。再次，我認為他們已經公開表示他們認為第一年的收入將會達到 500 萬美元左右。顯然，相對於我們在中國的業務，無論是當前狀態還是歷史狀態，這都只是一小部分。因此我們認為，考慮到該市場的經濟現實，推出全新的產品是困難的。

We think we continue to be well positioned. We've tried to be balanced in our minus 10% to plus 10% range. Granted, it's a big range, but we think that's driven more by the economic realities than it is by iBright being in the market. But as I said, I believe competition coming to the market is a good thing. It validates the ongoing market opportunity, but we believe we have such a firm established position in the market that we'll weather not only these economic times, but also competition coming in.

我們認為我們仍然處於有利地位。我們盡力在負 10% 到正 10% 的範圍內保持平衡。誠然，這個範圍很大，但我們認為，這更多的是由經濟現實而不是 iBright 的市場行為所驅動。但正如我所說，我相信市場出現競爭是件好事。它證實了持續的市場機遇，但我們相信，我們在市場上已經確立了牢固的地位，我們不僅能經受住經濟困難時期，還能經受住即將到來的競爭。

Yes. And I'll hit your question a little bit more. So just to piggyback off of Tom, as he said, we think they'll do about $5 million worth of revenue, which clearly would come out of our pockets, if that's the case. We also know they may do some trialing and give out free lenses. We've tried to account for that as best to our ability.

是的。我將進一步回答你的問題。所以，正如湯姆所說，我們認為他們將獲得約 500 萬美元的收入，如果真是這樣的話，這筆收入顯然會從我們的口袋裡掏出來。我們也知道他們可能會進行一些試驗並贈送免費鏡頭。我們已盡最大努力來解釋這一點。

That's included in the guidance that we provided of that $75 million to $125 million. In relation to the shipment, I want to make sure I reiterate it. I know you guys are digesting a lot. We did ship that product based on the order that was placed by the distributor in December, and we would normally recognize revenue on that. And in fact, we were ready to recognize revenue on that.

這包含在我們提供的 7,500 萬至 1.25 億美元的指導範圍內。關於這批貨物，我想再次重申這一點。我知道你們正在消化很多東西。我們確實根據經銷商 12 月下的訂單運送了該產品，我們通常會確認該產品的收入。事實上，我們已經準備好確認此項收入了。

It's one of the reasons why we pulled this forward as we work through it in kind of the mid-January time frame, as we were settling in on our 2025 numbers and reconfirming worldwide with everybody, our commercial team. This distributor said that they weren't going to be able to pay in a timely manner. That timely manner ended up being a pretty prolonged number. And if you listen to what we said, which is we anticipate to recognize by the end of Q3, that's essentially like a nine-month extension. And we just felt it wasn't appropriate for us to recognize revenue.

這是我們提前完成這項計劃的原因之一，因為我們在 1 月中旬左右完成這項計劃，當時我們正在確定 2025 年的數字，並與我們的商業團隊在全球範圍內進行重新確認。該經銷商表示他們無法及時付款。這種及時的方式最終成為一個相當漫長的過程。如果你聽我們說的話，我們預計在第三季末確認，這基本上就像是九個月的延長。我們只是覺得確認收入是不合適的。

We made that determination. That's not how we run our business. And when they begin to pay against that $27.5 million, we will recognize the revenue, and we have commitments from them that they will pay in -- by September. They do have some outstanding orders that we shipped in Q3 that they have paid for and continue to pay a little bit on. So there is no issue from our minds related to liquidity.

我們做出了這個決定。這不是我們經營業務的方式。當他們開始支付這 2,750 萬美元時，我們將確認收入，並且他們承諾將在 9 月之前付款。他們確實有一些我們在第三季度發貨的未結訂單，他們已經付款了，並且還在繼續支付一點點。因此，我們並不認為有流動性問題。

There's no issue related to their business. This is just simply them working through their working capital. Again, we've had this frank and candid conversation with them. This will not happen again. And if they need to have extended payment terms, we would simply choose not to ship. So it just happened to be that the accounting required that we do this. It's a little bit of a nuanced accounting, but this is what's required under GAAP. Does that answer for you, David? I want to make sure it's very clear.

他們的業務沒有任何問題。這只是他們利用營運資金進行的簡單工作。我們再次與他們進行了坦誠、坦誠的對話。這種事不會再發生了。如果他們需要延長付款期限，我們就會選擇不出貨。所以恰巧會計要求我們這麼做。這是一種比較微妙的會計處理，但這是 GAAP 所要求的。大衛，這能給你答案嗎？我想確保它非常清楚。

Yes. No, that was super helpful. So on the ordering and the rev rec, I mean, it sounds like it might just be more of a trickle versus $27.8 million recognized at any given point. Is that right?

是的。不，這非常有幫助。因此，就訂購量和收入而言，我的意思是，聽起來它可能只是涓涓細流，而不是在任何特定點確認的 2780 萬美元。是嗎？

It could be, but they tend to pay us in pretty lumpy amounts, right? So what I would tell you is if you kind of listened -- on my prepared comments, I said our AR was around $78 million at the end of December, the end of the fiscal year. We're already down to $65 million. A big -- a significant portion of that $13 million reduction is a payment from one of our China distributors. So they do tend to pay in large bulks, which is consistent to kind of how they take orders.

有可能，但他們付給我們的金額往往比較大，對嗎？所以我想告訴你們的是，如果你聽了我的準備好的評論，我說，截至 12 月底，即財政年度結束時，我們的應收帳款約為 7800 萬美元。我們的資金已降至 6,500 萬美元。這 1,300 萬美元減免中很大一部分來自我們的中國分銷商的付款。所以他們確實傾向於大額付款，這與他們接受訂單的方式一致。

Again, they take multiple orders throughout the year. It's not like they wait until the last second -- it just happened to be that this specific order was a little outsized and was -- outsized and pushed towards the end of the quarter. We can speculate as to the reasons why. But at the end of the day, we did the right thing, and we'll work down the inventory levels and come back in the second half.

再次，他們全年都會接受多個訂單。他們並不是等到最後一秒才下達這一命令——只是碰巧這個特定的訂單有點太大了，而且——太大了，被推遲到了季度末。我們可以推測其原因。但最終，我們做了正確的事情，我們將降低庫存水準並在下半年恢復。

Okay. Very clear. And then my follow-up is on the US. So if I heard you right, Patrick, you're assuming 15% growth in the guide. I think you did like 23% in '24.

好的。非常清楚。接下來我要關注的是美國。所以，派崔克，如果我沒聽錯的話，你假設指南中的成長率為 15%。我認為你在 24 年確實達到了 23%。

And it's small numbers, but I mean, the dollar growth is a touch lower than what you saw in '24 as well. So what's driving that assumption? And then how confident are you in sequential growth in the US?

雖然這個數字很小，但我的意思是，美元的成長也比 24 年的水準略低。那麼是什麼推動了這個假設呢？那麼，您對美國的連續成長有多大信心？

Look, as we said, the market is going to be down again in the US And I think to the degree that we can begin growing the pie again, David, I think that's when you'll start to see bigger increases, look, we're all focused on how quickly can we get to a $6 million, $7 million and $8 million quarter and really start driving this business. And that's going to continue to take time as we're developing a brand-new channel, lens-based refractive surgery. We've been at it now in the US pretty hard for about 2.5 to 3 years.

你看，正如我們所說的，美國的市場將再次下滑，我認為，在某種程度上，我們可以再次開始擴大規模，大衛，我認為那時你會看到更大的增長，你看，我們都專注於多快才能達到 600 萬美元、700 萬美元和 800 萬美元的季度收入，並真正開始推動這項業務。這也將繼續需要時間，因為我們正在開發一個全新的管道，即基於晶狀體的屈光手術。我們現在已經在美國努力工作了大約 2.5 到 3 年。

And as you've heard me say time and time again, it takes time to build a new channel. And this -- we've been doing this, taking share in a declining market ever since we brought EVO to the marketplace. And we're going to continue to do that. But I think in terms of the kind of growth, I believe this technology deserves, we need to get the whole pie growing again, not just simply taking shares from a declining market.

正如你們一次又一次聽到我說過的那樣，建立一個新管道需要時間。自從我們將 EVO 帶入市場以來，我們一直在這樣做，在不斷下滑的市場中佔有一席之地。我們將繼續這樣做。但我認為，就這項技術應有的成長而言，我們需要讓整個蛋糕再次成長，而不僅僅是從下滑的市場中奪取份額。

Yes. And then to answer your question on sequential, I think in our supplemental, we provided that the US did about $5.1 million, right, in Q4. We would expect that we would be above that coming into Q1 of 2025. We'll see where we get in the range, but we do expect -- we had a decent close to the year. The team's pumped up. And I think the low mark would be $5 million is what we're expecting in the quarter right now for Q1 2025.

是的。然後回答你關於連續的問題，我想在我們的補充中，我們提供了美國在第四季度的銷售額約為 510 萬美元。我們預計，到 2025 年第一季度，我們的業績將高於這一水平。我們將會看到我們能達到什麼樣的範圍，但我們確實期望——我們今年能有一個不錯的收尾。全隊士氣高昂。我認為最低標準是 500 萬美元，這是我們目前對 2025 年第一季的預期。

Mason Carrico, Stephens.

梅森·卡里科，史蒂芬斯。

Just a few quick cleanups for clarity on the back half revenue range you provided for China. Is the procedure volume range for China a full year range? If it is, what are your assumptions for volume growth in the back half? And then did you say that the back half range for China assumes that inventory is worked down to the minimal required levels and normalizes there for the remainder of the year? Or is it assuming some sort of dynamic with reorders stepping up above that?

只需進行一些快速清理，即可明確您提供的中國後半年收入範圍。中國的手術量範圍是全年範圍嗎？如果是，您對下半年銷售成長的假設是什麼？那麼您是否說過，中國下半年的庫存範圍假設庫存已降至最低要求水平，並在今年剩餘時間內保持正常水平？或者它是否假設某種動態，並且重新訂購的數量會高於此？

Yes. So on the inventory levels, on the low end, number one, we're trying to work down the inventory levels to the contractual numbers that we talked about, right? As I said, going dark and not shipping a lot of revenue in the first two quarters, most people assume we have probably upwards of 6 months of elevated inventory. Clearly, if we're on the low end of that range of the $75 million, then we haven't worked down probably as much inventory as we had hoped. But the range is to make to sure that we try to get down as close as we can to those contractual levels.

是的。因此，就庫存水準而言，在低端，首先，我們正試圖將庫存水準降低到我們談到的合約數字，對嗎？正如我所說的，由於前兩個季度業務暫停並且沒有帶來太多收入，大多數人認為我們的庫存可能有超過 6 個月的儲備。顯然，如果我們處於 7500 萬美元這一範圍的低端，那麼我們可能就沒有像希望的那樣減少庫存。但這個範圍是為了確保我們能盡可能接近合約水準。

In terms of what our assumption is for overall sell-through procedures, again, it's probably fair to say that the overall market that we have right now, you can peg us to that with some market share gains. In other words, what I'm trying to say is if we were down 10% in overall sell-through versus up 10%, although that's a number that we're saying for the overall refractive market, that's kind of how we're thinking about our sell-through numbers, right?

就我們對整體銷售程序的假設而言，可以公平地說，我們目前擁有的整體市場可以透過一些市場份額的成長與我們掛鉤。換句話說，我想說的是，如果我們的整體銷售量下降了 10%，另一方面卻上升了 10%，雖然這是我們針對整體折射市場給出的數字，但這就是我們對銷售量數字的看法，對嗎？

And so we believe we will continue to take market share. We did it in '24. We've done it in every year, but we're trying to be somewhat conservative on this because we want to make sure that we work down inventory levels so that as we move through '25, really in the second half of '25, we can all be rest assured that as we sell product in, we feel very comfortable with where they're at, and we don't run into this again.

因此我們相信我們將繼續佔據市場份額。我們在'24年就做到了。我們每年都這樣做，但我們試圖在這方面保持相對保守，因為我們想確保降低庫存水平，這樣當我們進入25年，特別是25年下半年時，我們都可以放心，當我們銷售產品時，我們對產品的現狀感到非常滿意，我們不會再遇到這種情況。

(Operator Instructions) As there are no further questions at this time, this concludes our question-and-answer session and also concludes our conference call. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

（操作員指示）由於目前沒有其他問題，我們的問答環節和電話會議到此結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。