Sasol Ltd (SSL) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Sasol Limited's presentation of the financial results for the financial year 2024. Thank you for dialing in and listening to our announcement today. My name is Tiffany Sydow from Investor Relations. And with me is Simon Baloyi, President and CEO of Sasol; and Hanre Rossouw, Chief Financial Officer.

早安，歡迎觀看沙索有限公司 2024 財年財務表現的示範。感謝您今天撥入並收聽我們的公告。我是投資者關係部的蒂芬妮‧西多 (Tiffany Sydow)。和我在一起的是 Sasol 總裁兼執行長 Simon Baloyi；和財務長 Hanre Rossouw。

Simon will start today's presentation with some opening remarks and an overview of the business performance. The financials will be covered in more detail by Hanre, and Simon will then conclude on strategy. We will have a Q&A session following the presentation, accessible through both the webcast and teleconference platforms.

西蒙將以一些開場白和對業務績效的概述來開始今天的演講。漢雷將更詳細地介紹財務狀況，然後西蒙將總結策略。演示結束後，我們將舉行問答環節，可透過網路廣播和電話會議平台進行存取。

Before we get into the main agenda, I'd ask that you please take a note of our forward-looking statements shown on the slide. Please perusing your own time and note the important information regarding statements that are made in this presentation. Thank you.

在我們進入主要議程之前，我想請您注意投影片上顯示的前瞻性聲明。請仔細閱讀您自己的時間並注意有關本簡報中所做陳述的重要資訊。謝謝。

And I will now hand over to Simon to commence his presentation.

現在我將邀請西蒙開始他的演講。

Good day, everyone, and welcome. In the past five months since I started my tenure as President and CEO, I have drawn on 20 years of Sasol experience to implement a few decisive actions to bring about meaningful change. Let me share a few examples with you.

大家好，歡迎光臨。自擔任總裁兼執行長以來的過去五個月裡，我利用 20 年沙索經驗，實施了一些決定性行動，以帶來有意義的變革。讓我與大家分享幾個例子。

In April, I commenced streamlining of Sasol's operating model. This entailed revising the portfolios of the Group Executive Committee and senior leadership levels. These changes were made to improve accountability, collaboration and to have created a clearer focus between business of today and business of the future.

四月，我開始精簡沙索的營運模式。這需要修改集團執行委員會和高階領導階層的職責。這些變化是為了改善問責制、協作，並在當今的業務和未來的業務之間建立更清晰的重點。

Regarding strategy, we have already defined a framework to guide our priorities and ambition. This framework has two pillars: one, strengthen and grow; and two, transform. I'll touch on this in more detail shortly. Furthermore, recognizing the agent needs to improve our short-term performance, I implemented focus areas to unlock opportunities. This enabled us to deliver a strong fourth-quarter performance.

關於策略，我們已經定義了一個框架來指導我們的優先事項和目標。這個框架有兩個支柱：一是加強和發展；第二，轉變。我很快就會更詳細地討論這一點。此外，認識到代理商需要提高我們的短期績效，我實施了重點領域來釋放機會。這使我們能夠實現強勁的第四季業績。

My vision for Sasol is to build a profitable and sustainable business. We must achieve this vision by safely delivering value to our shareholders, customers, communities through inspired people. I am deeply honored to lead Sasol at this pivotal moment. Team Sasol is fully committed to ensure that we thrive as the pioneers of our great company had intended.

我對沙索的願景是建立一個獲利且可持續的業務。我們必須透過充滿靈感的人們安全地為我們的股東、客戶和社區創造價值，從而實現這一願景。我非常榮幸能夠在這個關鍵時刻領導沙索。沙索團隊完全致力於確保我們按照我們偉大公司的先驅者的願望蓬勃發展。

We have an excellent portfolio of global assets and a solid customer base and integrated technologies. But what truly excites me is that people of Sasol. With nearly 30,000 employees worldwide united by shared people, team Sasol is the true driving force behind our success. It is for this very reason that I'm certain that we did not send all our team members safely home during FY 2024.

我們擁有優秀的全球資產組合、堅實的客戶基礎和整合技術。但真正讓我興奮的是沙索人。沙索團隊在全球擁有近 3 萬名員工，他們團結一致，是我們成功背後的真正動力。正是由於這個原因，我確信我們沒有在 2024 財政年度將所有團隊成員安全送回家。

This is not acceptable. Safety is a critical issue, and I'll spend more time on this topic shortly. Looking at the two pillars I've mentioned earlier, we are advancing with great agency to strengthen our foundation, step up performance, and move towards full potential. This underpins our ambition to strengthen and grow the business and then drive its transformation.

這是不可接受的。安全是一個關鍵問題，我很快就會花更多時間討論這個主題。看看我之前提到的兩大支柱，我們正在大力推進，以鞏固我們的基礎，提高績效，並充分發揮潛力。這支撐了我們加強和發展業務並推動其轉型的雄心。

Recent improvement in our operational stability are early signs of progress towards strengthening our foundation. At this early stage of my tenure, there are three key messages I'd like to share with you. Firstly, I have a clear vision for Sasol to build a resilient sustainable business that delivers value for all our stakeholders.

最近我們營運穩定性的改善是我們在鞏固基礎方面取得進展的早期跡象。在我任期的早期階段，我想與大家分享三個關鍵訊息。首先，我對沙索有一個清晰的願景，即建立一個有彈性的永續業務，為所有利害關係人創造價值。

Secondly, our recent actions are making an impact, but there is more that must be done to strengthen and grow our foundation business. And finally, we must transform Sasol for long-term sustainable performance by building on our strength. Towards the latter part of my presentation, I will circle back to strategy and our long-term outlook.

其次，我們最近的行動正在產生影響，但還需要做更多的工作來加強和發展我們的基礎業務。最後，我們必須透過增強自身實力來實現沙索的長期永續績效轉型。在演講的後半部分，我將回到策略和我們的長期前景。

While I'm confident that we can leverage Sasol's strength, our future aspiration must be grounded in what is realistic and achievable. This work will require more time to develop. We'll provide greater clarity at our next Capital Markets Day planned for Q4 FY 2025.

雖然我相信我們可以利用沙索的實力，但我們未來的願望必須立足於現實和可實現的目標。這項工作將需要更多時間來開發。我們將在計劃於 2025 財年第四季舉行的下一次資本市場日提供更清晰的資訊。

Turning to safety. As I mentioned earlier, our performance is not acceptable. Having spent many years in operation, directly interacting with our front-line team members and service providers, I have first-hand knowledge of how much their families mean to them. This depends by commitment that every one of us must return home safely through our loved ones each day. The fact that we are not achieving this was heavily on my heart.

轉向安全。正如我之前提到的，我們的表現是不可接受的。經過多年的運營，與我們的一線團隊成員和服務提供者直接互動，我對他們的家人對他們的意義有第一手的了解。這取決於我們每個人每天都必須透過我們所愛的人安全回家的承諾。我們沒有實現這一目標這一事實讓我很難過。

While we experienced lower hospitalization and less workday cases compared to FY 2023, we suffered five tragic fatalities. The colleagues we lost in FY 2024 are [Francois Lobe], a 25-year-old electromechanic artisan from Syferfontein mine; Dumisani Dumile, a 36-year-old scaffold builder from Secunda; Xolani Dube, a 43-year-old continuous miner operator from Bosjesspruit mine; Sfiso Maduna, a 33-year-old industrial cleaning supervisor from Secunda; and Mthobisi Mahlobo, a 31-old shuttle car operator from Thubelisha mine.

與 2023 財年相比，雖然我們的住院率和工作日病例數有所減少，但仍有 5 人不幸死亡。我們在 2024 財年失去的同事是 [Francois Lobe]，一位來自 Syferfontein 礦場的 25 歲機電工匠； Dumisani Dumile，36 歲，來自 Secunda 的鷹架建造者； Xolani Dube，43 歲，來自 Bosjesspruit 礦場的連續採礦操作員； Sfiso Maduna，33 歲，來自 Secunda 的工業清潔主管； Mthobisi Mahlobo 是圖貝利沙礦的 31 歲穿梭車操作員。

I'm also certain to report that last week, we also lost 36-year old [Mzondi Leitlamini], a scaffold builder from Secunda. I'm choosing to share more than just names as a way to honor these colleagues. They were our employees, but they were sons, husbands, fathers, and community members among many other roles.

我還可以肯定地報告，上週，我們還失去了 36 歲的 [Mzondi Leitlamini]，他是來自 Secunda 的腳手架建造者。我選擇分享的不僅是名字，也是為了向這些同事致敬。他們是我們的員工，但他們也是兒子、丈夫、父親和社區成員以及許多其他角色。

Each individual and loss suffer is simply one too many and we are leaving no stone unturned to reverse this trend. We have intensified our efforts to ensure that everyone is that heading to the right of operational with numerous interventions underway.

每個人所遭受的損失都太多了，我們正在不遺餘力地扭轉這一趨勢。我們加大力度，確保每個人都朝著正確的方向行動，並正在進行大量幹預措施。

Safety is a crucial leadership matter. We are actively increasing the presence of leaders in the field to confirm that the safety systems are working as we designed. Our leaders are engaging and supporting their teams to remove barriers to a safe work environment. I have mandated that all the people on site, regardless of rank and position, must pick up to stop working if they see unsafe practices or safety risks.

安全是至關重要的領導議題。我們正在積極增加該領域領導者的參與，以確認安全系統按照我們的設計運作。我們的領導者正在參與並支持他們的團隊消除安全工作環境的障礙。我已規定，現場所有人員，無論等級高低，如果發現不安全行為或有安全隱患，必須立即停止工作。

With the full support of team Sasol, these actions will further embed a culture where safety is at the forefront of everything we do to ensure that no one is left behind. I will now unpack a few selling aspects of our FY 2024 business performance.

在沙索團隊的全力支持下，這些行動將進一步根植一種文化，將安全置於我們所做的一切工作的最前沿，以確保不讓任何人落後。現在，我將解析我們 2024 財年業務表現的一些銷售面向。

We saw operational improvements in the fourth quarter. This contributed to increase in production and sales volumes compared to FY 2023. As team Sasol, we understand that the performance of one quarter is not enough. We must be consistent in our delivery to ensure that we meet our targets.

我們在第四季度看到了營運改善。與 2023 財年相比，這有助於產量和銷售量的增加。作為沙索團隊，我們明白一個季度的表現是不夠的。我們的交付必須保持一致，以確保實現我們的目標。

Let me share a few notable highlights with you from FY 2024. Our mining full potential program is nearing completion. The benefits of these are reflected in productivity gains. While productivity in certain sections have been met and even exceeded, we have identified opportunities to further improve the lagging sections. We are fully unpacking these opportunities, and we will provide feedback at our FY 2025 half year results.

讓我與您分享 2024 財年的一些值得注意的亮點。我們的挖掘全部潛力計劃已接近完成。這些好處反映在生產力的提高上。雖然某些工段的生產力已經達到甚至超過，但我們已經找到了進一步提高落後工段的機會。我們正在全面挖掘這些機會，並將在 2025 財年半年業績中提供回饋。

A significant milestone was achieved in Mozambique with early gas flow from the PSA initial gas facility. We also continued with our improvement interventions at Secunda operation, focusing on equipment availability and operational stability.

莫三比克實現了一個重要的里程碑，PSA 初始天然氣設施的早期天然氣流出。我們也繼續對 Secunda 營運進行改進幹預，重點關注設備可用性和營運穩定性。

I'm also delighted to share that our Sasol Rewards loyalty program has reached an impressive 1.8 million subscribers since launching two years ago. This program contributed to an increase in the retail fuel sales performance despite an overall decrease in sales volumes. Internationally, we continue to manage the utilization of our assets in response to continued weak demand. We are also focusing on increasing volumes of our high-margin products.

我還很高興地告訴大家，自兩年前推出以來，我們的 Sasol Rewards 忠誠度計劃已擁有 180 萬訂戶，令人印象深刻。儘管銷量總體下降，但該計劃仍促進了零售燃料銷售業績的成長。在國際上，我們繼續管理資產的利用，以應對持續疲軟的需求。我們也致力於增加高利潤產品的銷售量。

Lastly, I'm pleased to announce the successful conclusion of our PR related to clause 12A of the minimum emission standards in South Africa. This allows us to proceed with the implementation of the load based integrated solution to reduce sulfur dioxide emissions in Secunda from April 1, 2025. FY 2025 will be about stepping up delivery, as we progress our pathway to full business potential.

最後，我很高興地宣布我們已成功完成與南非最低排放標準第 12A 條相關的 PR。這使我們能夠從 2025 年 4 月 1 日起繼續實施基於負載的綜合解決方案，以減少 Secunda 的二氧化硫排放。2025 財年我們將加快交貨步伐，以充分發揮業務潛力。

Let me spend a few minutes on some of the specifics we are focusing on. In mining, our benchmarking indicates that supply from our own mines remains the most cost competitive for our value chain. Consequently, our forecast will be on improving our own volumes, reducing unplanned coal purchases, and reducing production costs. We will achieve this by increasing the capacity at our mines and creating deployment flexibility.

讓我花幾分鐘時間討論我們關注的一些具體細節。在採礦業，我們的基準測試表明，我們自己的礦場的供應對於我們的價值鏈來說仍然最具成本競爭力。因此，我們的預測將是提高我們自己的產量，減少計劃外的煤炭採購，並降低生產成本。我們將透過提高礦山產能和創造部署靈活性來實現這一目標。

Additionally, we are implementing our core quality improvement program, which focuses on coal and blend quality. A final investment decision on our destoning solution will also be made later this calendar year. As we refine our delivery case, we will shift our focus from taking productivity at mining to maximizing sellable production tons at the lowest possible cost.

此外，我們正在實施核心品質改進計劃，重點關注煤炭和混合料品質。我們的去石解決方案的最終投資決定也將於今年稍後做出。隨著我們完善交付方案，我們將把重點從提高採礦生產率轉向以盡可能低的成本最大化可銷售產量。

Operational stability and rigor is key at our South African operations. This includes the execution of successful shutdowns and optimizing external spend. International chemical is undergoing a research journey as we target various opportunities. Our journey began in April 2024 with the appointment of Antje Gerber as EVP, International Chemicals.

營運穩定性和嚴謹性是我們南非業務的關鍵。這包括成功關閉和優化外部支出。當我們瞄準各種機會時，國際化學品正在經歷一段研究之旅。我們的旅程始於 2024 年 4 月，任命 Antje Gerber 為國際化學品部執行副總裁。

In FY 2025, we'll maintain momentum by focusing on improving efficiency and driving targeted innovation. We will embrace our go-to-market model to better align with evolving consumer demands. We'll also provide more competitive solution to our customers. Additionally, we'll review and assess our asset portfolio. Here, we will take decisive actions on underperforming assets to ensure robust returns, which are comparable to our peers.

2025 財年，我們將透過專注於提高效率和推動有針對性的創新來保持勢頭。我們將採用我們的進入市場模式，以更好地滿足不斷變化的消費者需求。我們也將為客戶提供更具競爭力的解決方案。此外，我們將審查和評估我們的資產組合。在這裡，我們將對錶現不佳的資產採取果斷行動，以確保與同行相比的強勁回報。

In Southern African marketing and sales, we aim to enhance margins through optimized channel placement and improving customer value proposition. On the regulatory front, risk to our business persists and managing this through proactive with critical stakeholders remains a priority. Flexibility in our strategy is also being considered to allow us to respond effectively to evolving regulation and policies.

在南部非洲的營銷和銷售中，我們的目標是透過優化通路佈局和改善客戶價值主張來提高利潤。在監管方面，我們的業務風險仍然存在，透過與關鍵利害關係人積極主動地管理此風險仍然是首要任務。我們也考慮了策略的靈活性，以便我們能夠有效地應對不斷變化的監管和政策。

Our FY 2025 products is well aligned with our goal to strengthen our foundation business. This is underscored by safety, cash generation, and customer-centric seats. We are also building on stakeholder confidence and driving sustainability.

我們的 2025 財年產品與我們加強基礎業務的目標非常一致。安全性、現金產生和以客戶為中心的座位強調了這一點。我們也致力於增強利害關係人的信心並推動永續發展。

In our commitment to financial resilience, we are focused on enhancing our cash generating and deleveraging. This, we will do through improving margins and enhancing our cost competitiveness. Customers are pivotal to our continued success and our promise to meeting the quality, service, timing and innovation needs remains unwavering. We'll progress our plans to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions and carbon intensity.

在我們對財務彈性的承諾中，我們專注於增強現金產生和去槓桿化。我們將透過提高利潤率和增強成本競爭力來做到這一點。客戶是我們持續成功的關鍵，我們對滿足品質、服務、時間和創新需求的承諾仍然堅定不移。我們將推進減少溫室氣體排放和碳強度的計畫。

We're already seeing opportunities to optimize the GHG roadmap, also known as the emission reduction roadmap for our South African value chain. We look forward to sharing more detail on this at our Capital Markets Day. We recognized that we cannot achieve our goals alone. Our stakeholders are crucial to our future, and we are working diligently to deliver on our promises.

我們已經看到了優化溫室氣體路線圖的機會，也稱為南非價值鏈的減排路線圖。我們期待在資本市場日分享更多相關細節。我們認識到我們無法單獨實現我們的目標。我們的利害關係人對我們的未來至關重要，我們正在努力兌現我們的承諾。

To conclude the first part of my presentation, I'll summarize the journey that we are on.

在結束演講的第一部分時，我將總結我們正在進行的旅程。

The forecast in FY 2024 was to position the organization for effective delivery. One of my first priorities was to streamline our operating model to improve focus, accountability and collaboration. Looking to FY 2025, we must step up delivery as we define credible pathways to full performance and strengthen our balance sheet.

2024 財年的預測是使組織能夠有效交付。我的首要任務之一是簡化我們的營運模式，以提高重點、問責制和協作。展望 2025 財年，我們必須加快交付步伐，確定實現全面績效並強化資產負債表的可靠途徑。

We now have a more robust organization that is better positioned to drive improved performance in our journey to reach full potential. As part of this, we'll uphold rigorous cost and capital management practices to foster a culture of continuous business improvement. In this regard, we have updated our dividend policy, which Hanre will discuss later.

我們現在擁有一個更強大的組織，能夠更好地推動我們在充分發揮潛力的過程中提高績效。作為其中的一部分，我們將堅持嚴格的成本和資本管理實踐，以培養持續改善業務的文化。在這方面，我們更新了我們的股利政策，Hanre將在稍後討論。

This change aligns dividends more closely with cash flow. While it will impact near-term payments, we remain committed to delivering shareholder returns. Beyond FY 2025, we will continue to prioritize operating performance while intensifying our focus on delivering future Sasol. Our efforts will be centered on pursuing value creation that aligns with our sustainability goals and drives growth.

這一變化使股息與現金流更加緊密地結合在一起。雖然這會影響短期付款，但我們仍然致力於為股東帶來回報。2025 財年之後，我們將繼續優先考慮營運績效，同時更重視交付未來的沙索。我們的努力將集中在追求與我們的永續發展目標相符並推動成長的價值創造。

I am confident in our ability to succeed, and I'm excited to lead team Sasol to us achieving success in FY 2025 and beyond. On that note, I now hand you over to Hanre to unpack our financial performance in greater detail.

我對我們成功的能力充滿信心，我很高興能夠領導沙索團隊在 2025 財年及以後取得成功。就此而言，我現在請 Hanre 更詳細地介紹我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Simon, and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. As Simon has highlighted, we have navigated through significant challenges and achieved some improvements in the second half of the financial year. Despite these improvements, our financial results were impacted by a range of factors owing to operational issues and the challenging macro environment.

謝謝西蒙，女士們先生們早安。正如西蒙所強調的那樣，我們在本財年下半年克服了重大挑戰並取得了一些進步。儘管取得了這些進步，但由於營運問題和充滿挑戰的宏觀環境，我們的財務表現受到一系列因素的影響。

Let me start with the macro environment that we had to navigate this financial year. Oil prices continue to soften in the second half of the financial year, decreasing by 3% when compared to the prior financial year, which was partially offset, however, by a 5% weaker rand. A 2% increase in the rand oil price was realized compared to the prior year.

讓我從本財年我們必須應對的宏觀環境開始。本財年下半年油價持續走軟，與上一財年相比下降了 3%，但蘭特貶值 5% 部分抵銷了這一影響。與前一年相比，蘭特油價上漲了 2%。

However, the closing exchange rate was stronger, which positively impacted the translation of our US dollar-denominated debt. We observed a 13% increase in petrol differentials, but diesel differentials were down 22% compared to last year, negatively impacting our fuels business. We continue to see some respite in lower ethane and energy input costs contributing to slightly improved margins in our international chemicals business.

然而，收盤匯率走強，這對我們以美元計價的債務的換算產生了積極影響。我們觀察到汽油價差增加了 13%，但柴油價差與去年相比下降了 22%，這對我們的燃料業務產生了負面影響。我們繼續看到乙烷和能源投入成本的下降有所緩解，這有助於我們國際化學品業務的利潤率略有提高。

However, energy input costs remain elevated compared to historic levels. Sasol achieved polyethylene prices decreased by 8% due to persistent weak demand and global oversupply. Looking ahead, we expect continued pricing and demand volatility in the short term given the uncertain global market sentiment and ongoing geopolitical events. These challenges require continued agility and efforts to adapt to market demand and enhance margins. We must also maintain our cost and capital discipline through our business transformation program.

然而，與歷史水準相比，能源投入成本仍然較高。由於需求持續疲軟和全球供應過剩，沙索實現聚乙烯價格下跌 8%。展望未來，鑑於不確定的全球市場情緒和持續的地緣政治事件，我們預期短期內定價和需求將持續波動。這些挑戰需要持續的敏捷性和努力來適應市場需求並提高利潤。我們還必須透過業務轉型計劃來維持成本和資本紀律。

Turning to the results for the financial year 2024. The underlying operating performance was mostly in line with the revised market guidance. Despite the improved business performance in the second half of the financial year, we experienced a significant decrease in our cash generation and profitability compared to the prior year.

轉向 2024 財年的業績。基本經營績效基本上符合修訂後的市場指引。儘管本財年下半年的業務業績有所改善，但與前一年相比，我們的現金產生和獲利能力大幅下降。

Cash fixed costs increased by 1%, well below inflation, excluding inflation and exchange rate movements. Cash fixed costs decreased by approximately 5%, reflecting focused cost reduction initiatives. Adjusted EBITDA and cash generated by operations decreased by 9% and 19%, respectively.

現金固定成本成長 1%，遠低於通貨膨脹率（不包括通貨膨脹和匯率變動）。現金固定成本下降約 5%，反映了集中的成本削減措施。調整後 EBITDA 和營運產生的現金分別下降 9% 和 19%。

However, it's important to highlight the substantial improvement in the second half of the year compared to the first half. A loss before interest and tax was realized, which was negatively impacted by noncash adjustments, most notably, the impairment in the Chemicals Americas segment relating to the Specialty Chemicals cash-generating unit of ZAR46 billion net of tax. The impairment reflects revised assumptions incorporating a weaker outlook for the value chain, including ethane, ethylene, and other product prices due to slower-than-anticipated demand recovery.

然而，重要的是要強調今年下半年與上半年相比的實質改善。實現了息稅前虧損，該虧損受到非現金調整的負面影響，最明顯的是與特種化學品現金產生單位相關的美洲化學品部門的減值，稅後淨額為 460 億南非蘭特。減損反映了修正後的假設，其中包括由於需求復甦慢於預期而導致乙烷、乙烯和其他產品價格等價值鏈前景疲軟。

Persistent oversupply is likely to have a prolonged impact on prices and margins. Additionally, we've also seen higher discount rates further impacting the value and use.

持續的供應過剩可能會對價格和利潤產生長期影響。此外，我們還發現更高的折扣率進一步影響了價值和使用。

Although impairments are, of course, a noncash adjustment management remains committed to claw back value through various initiatives to improve the business performance of the international chemicals business as well, of course, as of our broader portfolio.

當然，儘管減損是非現金調整，但管理層仍致力於透過各種措施收回價值，以提高國際化學品業務以及我們更廣泛的投資組合的業務績效。

Our capital spend of ZAR30 billion decreased by 2% compared to the prior year and ended lower than market guidance, mainly due to continued optimization of our capital portfolio and postponement of low-risk projects. It is key to note that the lower capital spend was without compromising on maintenance and reliability of our assets.

我們的資本支出為 300 億南非蘭特，較前一年下降 2%，低於市場指引，主要是因為我們持續優化資本組合和延後低風險項目。值得注意的是，較低的資本支出並未影響我們資產的維護和可靠性。

Although free cash flow for the financial year decreased by 60% compared to the prior year, we saw a significant improvement from a negative ZAR6 billion in the first half to a positive ZAR8 billion free cash flow at the end of the financial year.

儘管本財年的自由現金流較上年下降了 60%，但我們看到從上半年的負 60 億南非蘭特到財年末的正自由現金流 80 億南非蘭特有了顯著改善。

This reflects the resilience and the resolve of team Sasol. Now I have full confidence that we can step up our performance going forward into the next financial year. The Board has taken the tough decision to pass on the final dividend for the financial year 2024, bringing the full year dividend to ZAR2 per share. We revised our dividend policy, which I'll talk about more a bit later.

這反映了沙索團隊的韌性和決心。現在我完全有信心我們能夠在下一個財政年度提高我們的表現。董事會做出了艱難的決定，傳遞 2024 財年的末期股息，將全年股息提高至每股 2 南非蘭特。我們修改了股利政策，稍後我將詳細討論。

It is important to recognize how the diversification of our portfolio across the energy and chemical sectors enhances the overall stability and performance of our businesses and mitigates risk. This diversification has proven beneficial reducing the impacts of low oil price in the past and is currently mitigating the effects of low chemical prices and softer market conditions.

重要的是要認識到我們在能源和化學領域的投資組合多元化如何提高我們業務的整體穩定性和績效並降低風險。事實證明，這種多元化過去有利於減少低油價的影響，目前正在減輕化學品價格低和市場狀況疲軟的影響。

Our energy business, supported by a reasonably stable oil prices continue to underpin our profitability, although there remains a performance gap to reaching its full potential. We are implementing targeted plans to ensure we leverage the favorable market conditions provided by the stable oil prices.

我們的能源業務在相當穩定的油價的支持下繼續支撐我們的盈利能力，儘管在充分發揮其潛力方面仍然存在差距。我們正在實施有針對性的計劃，以確保我們利用穩定油價提供的有利市場條件。

In our Chemicals business, the slight increase in performance from -- especially our international segments is encouraging given the challenging global economic climate. We will continue the resets of our international chemicals business, improving the overall contribution to the group going forward.

在我們的化學品業務中，鑑於充滿挑戰的全球經濟環境，尤其是我們的國際業務的業績小幅增長令人鼓舞。我們將持續重組國際化學品業務，提高對集團未來的整體貢獻。

By consistently evaluating and reviewing our portfolio, we aim to achieve robust returns from both businesses, allowing us to navigate economic challenges and paving the way for sustained profitability. Now shifting our focus to the variance in adjusted EBITDA comparing the previous year with the latest year with business segments starting on the energy side.

透過不斷評估和審查我們的投資組合，我們的目標是從兩項業務中獲得強勁的回報，使我們能夠應對經濟挑戰並為持續盈利鋪平道路。現在，我們將重點轉向上一年與最近一年相比調整後 EBITDA 的差異，其中業務部門從能源方面開始。

Our mining business saw a 4% decline versus prior year, largely due to lower export coal prices and higher external coal purchase prices, partly offset by the higher internal transfer prices. We continue to focus on the mining turnaround interventions, which Simon referenced earlier, to increase output and improve cost competitiveness.

我們的採礦業務較上年下降 4%，主要是由於出口煤炭價格下降和外部煤炭採購價格上漲，部分被內部轉移價格上漲所抵銷。我們繼續關注西蒙先前提到的礦業週轉幹預措施，以增加產量並提高成本競爭力。

Our gas business was down by 6%, mainly due to lower weighted average gas prices. The lower weighted average gas prices were driven by gas prices from Mozambique linked to the lower oil price. This was partially offset by increased sales volumes driven by the additional wells that came online last year and the initial gas flow from the PSA license.

我們的天然氣業務下降了 6%，主要是由於加權平均天然氣價格下降。加權平均天然氣價格下降是由於莫三比克天然氣價格與油價下跌有關。這被去年上線的額外油井和 PSA 許可證的初始天然氣流量推動的銷售增加所部分抵消。

In our fuel segment, adjusted EBITDA fell by 7% mainly due to lower sales volumes and lower differentials on diesel, partly offset by a stronger rand oil price and Natref refining margins.

在我們的燃料部門，調整後的 EBITDA 下降了 7%，主要是由於銷量下降和柴油差異較小，但蘭特油價走強和 Natref 煉油利潤在一定程度上抵消了這一影響。

Turning to the Chemicals business. Chemicals Africa decreased by 31% due to lower dollar-based sales prices. This was partially offset by the higher sales volumes for the year. In Chemicals America, adjusted EBITDA increased by more than 100% to approximately ZAR3.5 billion due to higher sales volumes and improved ethylene and derivative margins as feedstock and energy costs reduced.

轉向化學品業務。由於美元銷售價格下降，非洲化學品銷量下降了 31%。這被今年銷量的增加部分抵消。在美國化學品公司，由於原料和能源成本降低，銷量增加以及乙烯和衍生品利潤率提高，調整後的 EBITDA 增長了 100% 以上，達到約 35 億南非蘭特。

Chemicals Eurasia increased by 19% due to higher sales volumes and lower margins driven by lower energy and feedstock costs. Margins, however, still remain low compared to historic levels. Improved performance in our international chemicals business represents some positive momentum in the current macro environment.

由於能源和原料成本下降導致銷量增加和利潤率下降，歐亞化學品業務增加了 19%。然而，與歷史水準相比，利潤率仍然較低。我們國際化學品業務業績的改善代表了當前宏觀環境的一些積極勢頭。

We are also taking proactive self-help steps to reposition this business to be more resilient in the longer term. We launched our Sasol 2.0 transformation program in 2020, which was designed to drive cost improvement initiatives and enhance profitability. I'm pleased to say that by financial year 2024, we successfully delivered a cumulative total of ZAR16 billion of EBITDA enhancements, which has given us more headroom to withstand the impact of volatile economic environment and high inflation.

我們也採取積極的自助措施，重新定位該業務，使其在長期內更具彈性。我們於 2020 年啟動了 Sasol 2.0 轉型計劃，旨在推動成本改進計劃並提高獲利能力。我很高興地說，到2024財年，我們成功實現了累計160億南非蘭特的EBITDA提升，這使我們有更多空間來抵禦不穩定的經濟環境和高通膨的影響。

We target an additional ZAR2 billion to ZAR4 billion of EBITDA enhancements in the financial year 2025, through further cost savings and gross margin enhancements. This will mark the successful completion of the Sasol 2.0 program. Going forward, we will implement a continuous optimization approach to business transformation emphasizing sustained cost management and ongoing margin improvement.

我們的目標是透過進一步節省成本和提高毛利率，在 2025 財年 EBITDA 額外提高 20 億至 40 億南非蘭特。這將標誌著沙索2.0計劃的成功完成。展望未來，我們將實施持續優化的業務轉型方法，強調持續的成本管理和持續的利潤率改善。

This involves embedding the principles of Sasol 2.0 into a culture of continuous optimization ensuring ongoing free cash flow delivery. With our streamlined business structure, the new operating model will enhance our effectiveness and improve how we manage the business.

這涉及將 Sasol 2.0 的原則嵌入持續優化的文化中，確保持續的自由現金流交付。透過精簡的業務結構，新的營運模式將提高我們的效率並改善我們的業務管理方式。

Our ongoing commitment to cost optimization will ensure that Sasol remains resilient and competitive in an ever-evolving global market. Shifting our focus now to our capital allocation framework, which remains pivotal to our investment decisions and the foundation of our financial strategy.

我們對成本優化的持續承諾將確保沙索在不斷變化的全球市場中保持彈性和競爭力。現在將我們的重點轉向我們的資本配置框架，這仍然對我們的投資決策和我們的財務策略的基礎至關重要。

Turning first to our dividend policy, a topic of considerable importance and one that we have engaged extensively on with shareholders. The significant disconnect between headline earnings and cash flow generation alongside elevated leverage levels, as necessitated a revised approach to our dividend policy.

首先談談我們的股利政策，這是一個相當重要的議題，也是我們與股東廣泛討論的議題。整體獲利和現金流產生之間的顯著脫節以及槓桿水平的提高，使得我們必須對股利政策進行修訂。

Under this new policy, dividends will be calculated based on free cash flow before discretionary capital and dividends paid. It is important to note that dividends will only be distributed whilst our net debt remains sustainably below $4 billion. This threshold is critical as it supports our overarching goal of deleveraging the balance sheet and creating financial flexibility.

根據這項新政策，股息將根據可自由支配資本和支付股息之前的自由現金流來計算。值得注意的是，只有在我們的淨債務持續低於 40 億美元的情況下，才會分配股息。這個門檻至關重要，因為它支持我們去槓桿化資產負債表和創造財務靈活性的整體目標。

Unfortunately, as I noted earlier, given we ended the period marginally above the $4 billion threshold, we did not declare a final dividend for the period further to the ZAR2 per share interim dividend. We are committed to strengthen the balance sheet with the solid action plans that Simon unpacked earlier to improve cash flow generation and deliver sustainable shareholder returns over the long term.

不幸的是，正如我之前指出的，鑑於我們在該期間結束時略高於 40 億美元的門檻，我們沒有宣派該期間的末期股息，而每股中期股息為 2 南非蘭特。我們致力於透過西蒙早期制定的實際行動計劃來加強資產負債表，以改善現金流的產生並提供可持續的長期股東回報。

We continue to refine our approach to maintenance capital, optimizing spend whilst ensuring the safety and reliability of our operations. Additionally, we are carefully balancing our transform capital to enable our greenhouse gas emissions reduction roadmap, thereby balancing our commitments to sustainability, growth and delivering of value to our shareholders.

我們不斷完善維護資本方法，優化支出，同時確保營運的安全性和可靠性。此外，我們正在仔細平衡我們的轉型資本，以實現我們的溫室氣體減排路線圖，從而平衡我們對永續發展、成長和為股東創造價值的承諾。

Looking ahead to the financial outlook for the financial year 2025. In mining, as Simon highlighted, we are shifting our focus from productivity metrics to closely tracking salable production and optimizing the associated production cost. For financial year 2025, we project saleable production to be between 30 million and 32 million tons.

展望2025財年的財務前景。正如西蒙所強調的那樣，在採礦業，我們正在將重點從生產力指標轉向密切追蹤可銷售產量並優化相關生產成本。2025 財年，我們預計可銷售產量將在 3,000 萬噸至 3,200 萬噸之間。

In Mozambique, gas production is expected to increase by up to 5%, supported by the additional volumes from the PSA license. The slight improvement in mining and increased gas volumes is projected to increase production from Secunda operations to be between 7 million tons to 7.2 million tons. In terms of sales, we anticipate a 0% to 4% increase in volumes for liquid fuels and Chemicals Africa compared to the prior year.

在莫三比克，在PSA許可證增加產量的支持下，天然氣產量預計將增加高達5%。採礦業的輕微改善和天然氣產量的增加預計將使 Secunda 業務的產量增加到 700 萬噸至 720 萬噸。就銷售額而言，我們預計非洲液體燃料和化學品的銷量將比上年增長 0% 至 4%。

For our international chemicals business, we expect combined volumes from US and Eurasia to be in line with the prior year with a focus more on improving margins through optimizing sales mix and reducing costs. Working capital to turnover ratio is expected to remain stable at around 15.5% to 16.5% on a rolling 12-month average basis, ensuring optimal inventory levels.

對於我們的國際化學品業務，我們預計美國和歐亞大陸的總銷量將與前一年持平，並更加重視透過優化銷售組合和降低成本來提高利潤率。預計12個月滾動平均營運資金周轉率將穩定在15.5%至16.5%左右，確保最佳庫存水準。

Capital expenditure for maintain and transform is forecasted to be between ZAR28 billion and ZAR30 billion. This include peak PSA and environmental compliance spend. Additionally, we have included approximately ZAR1 billion towards growth-focused projects, including those in our Zaffra joint venture. Following the streamlining of our executive portfolios, our businesses will now be managed as a Southern Africa Energy & Chemicals business, which effectively includes the South African value chain and in the international chemicals business, which combines our America and Eurasia Chemical businesses.

維護和改造的資本支出預計在 280 億蘭特至 300 億蘭特之間。這包括尖峰 PSA 和環境合規支出。此外，我們還投入了約 10 億南非蘭特用於以成長為重點的項目，其中包括我們 Zaffra 合資企業的項目。在精簡我們的高階主管組合後，我們的業務現在將作為南部非洲能源和化學品業務進行管理，其中實際上包括南非價值鏈和國際化學品業務，其中結合了我們的美洲和歐亞化學品業務。

More detail on the disclosure relating to our new operating model will be provided later in the calendar year. In conclusion, as we navigate through financial year 2025, our strategic initiatives are set to strengthen our operational efficiency and ensure strict cost and capital management.

有關我們新營運模式的披露的更多詳細資訊將在今年稍後提供。總之，在 2025 財年中，我們的策略性舉措旨在提高營運效率並確保嚴格的成本和資本管理。

This set of results will be my last message as the outgoing CFO, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to have been part of this dynamic organization. Thank you to my colleagues, especially to my finance team, for your support and unwavering dedication. I'm pleased to hand over the baton to Walt Bruns, who succeeds me as CFO, and I'm confident that he is well positioned to lead Team Sasol towards future success.

這組結果將是我作為即將卸任的財務長的最後一條訊息，我很高興有機會成為這個充滿活力的組織的一員。感謝我的同事，特別是我的財務團隊，感謝你們的支持和堅定不移的奉獻。我很高興將接力棒交給 Walt Bruns，他接替我擔任財務官，我相信他有能力帶領 Sasol 團隊走向未來的成功。

I will now hand back to Simon to conclude with our longer-term strategic outlook. Thank you.

我現在將請西蒙總結我們的長期策略展望。謝謝。

Thank you, Hanre. As I mentioned earlier, we are committed to unlocking the full potential of our business and building a more sustainable future Sasol. To achieve this, we are refining our strategy to proactively address challenges. We will also leverage our competitive advantages to seize opportunities. As I said at the outset, our strategic framework revolves around two pillars, strengthen and grow, and transform.

謝謝你，漢雷。正如我之前提到的，我們致力於釋放我們業務的全部潛力，建立更永續的未來沙索。為了實現這一目標，我們正在完善策略以積極應對挑戰。我們也將發揮競爭優勢，把握機會。正如我一開始所說，我們的策略框架圍繞著兩大支柱：強化、成長和轉型。

To recap, in the short term, we'll focus on enhancing delivery from our core businesses and maximize cash flow. In the medium term, we aim to maintain this performance while scaling transformation opportunities. Over the long term, we plan to optimize and transform our portfolio. This we will do by leveraging existing assets and exploring new sustainable growth opportunities.

回顧一下，短期內，我們將專注於增強核心業務的交付並最大化現金流。從中期來看，我們的目標是在擴大轉型機會的同時保持這一表現。從長遠來看，我們計劃優化和轉型我們的產品組合。我們將透過利用現有資產並探索新的永續成長機會來實現這一目標。

Our environmental commitments remain central to our strategy. Here, we need to maintain a balanced and measured approach across our people, plant and profit goals. This ensures that every strategic decision we make support our environmental ambition and social responsibility and returns to shareholders. As always, we welcome ongoing input from all stakeholders as we optimize our approach to transform our businesses. I look forward to this work progressing and sharing more details at our Capital Markets Day in 2025.

我們的環境承諾仍然是我們策略的核心。在這裡，我們需要在人員、工廠和利潤目標之間保持平衡和謹慎的方法。這確保我們做出的每一項策略決策都支持我們的環保野心和社會責任，並回報股東。一如既往，我們歡迎所有利害關係人在我們優化業務轉型方法時不斷提供意見。我期待這項工作取得進展，並在 2025 年資本市場日分享更多細節。

Regarding the energy transition, this is influenced by multiple factors, including the imperative for energy security and adjust transition. By remaining agile and responsive, we are adapting to these changes and shaping our strategic objectives. Given this context, it is essential that we optimize the execution of our GHG roadmap.

就能源轉型而言，這受到多種因素的影響，其中包括能源安全和調整轉型的必要性。透過保持敏捷性和回應能力，我們正在適應這些變化並製定我們的策略目標。有鑑於此，我們有必要優化溫室氣體路線圖的執行。

This is to ensure maximize value from Secunda operations for energy security and to enable a gas transition. Transformation is not just about responding to change. It's about seizing new opportunities. We are focused on identifying and building scalable growth opportunities around the new sustainable value pools.

這是為了確保 Secunda 營運的能源安全價值最大化並實現天然氣轉型。轉型不僅僅是應對變化。這是為了抓住新機會。我們專注於圍繞新的永續價值池來識別和建立可擴展的成長機會。

In summary, we are adapting our plans to address today's realities and create a more resilient business for tomorrow. Let me now touch on a few aspects of Sasol's continued contributions. Sasol makes very significant contribution across various sectors and regions where we operate. This includes producing essential everyday products and making substantial social economic investments.

總之，我們正在調整我們的計劃，以應對當今的現實，並為明天創造更具彈性的業務。現在讓我談談沙索持續做出的貢獻的幾個面向。沙索在我們經營所在的各個產業和地區做出了非常重大的貢獻。這包括生產必需的日常產品和進行大量的社會經濟投資。

We also play an important role in critical value chains, such as agriculture, liquid fuels, chemicals, and mining. A recent study has confirmed that our direct, indirect induced employment contribution in South Africa is in the order of 500,000 people. Looking at only backward integration, this number will increase significantly if both backward and forward integration are considered.

我們也在農業、液體燃料、化學品和採礦等關鍵價值鏈中發揮重要作用。最近的一項研究證實，我們對南非直接、間接帶動的就業貢獻約為 50 萬人。僅考慮後向集成，如果同時考慮後向集成和前向集成，這個數字將顯著增加。

Over the past five years, we invested ZAR4.2 billion globally in our social impact programs. It is our intent that this company will continue to drive meaningful contributions. We fully intend upholding our integral role in the prosperity and social economic development of communities, countries in which we operate. While we refine our strategy in preparation for our next Capital Markets Day, we are not standing still.

過去五年，我們在全球社會影響力計畫上投資了 42 億南非蘭特。我們希望該公司能夠繼續做出有意義的貢獻。我們完全願意在我們開展業務的社區和國家的繁榮和社會經濟發展中發揮不可或缺的作用。雖然我們完善策略為下一個資本市場日做準備，但我們並沒有停滯不前。

We continue to progress our renewable energy commitment of 1,200 megawatts by 2030. To date, we have signed 750 megawatts of power purchase agreements some of which are in construction and will come online in the near term. The commissioning of Msenge wind farm is nearly finished. We look forward to this farm supply 69 megawatts of renewable energy by October 2024 to our Sasolburg operation.

我們繼續履行到 2030 年 1,200 兆瓦的再生能源承諾。截至目前，我們已簽署750兆瓦購電協議，部分工程正在興建中，將於近期上線。Msenge風電場的調試已接近完成。我們期待該農場到 2024 年 10 月為我們的 Sasolburg 業務提供 69 兆瓦的可再生能源。

This marked a significant milestone in our commitment to sustainable energy. Moving forward, we aim to build on this success, and we are exploring options to position ourselves as leaders in renewable energy projects. This will not only help us to reduce our carbon footprint, but also support South Africa's energy pathway.

這標誌著我們對永續能源承諾的一個重要里程碑。展望未來，我們的目標是在這項成功的基礎上再接再厲，我們正在探索各種方案，將自己定位為再生能源專案的領導者。這不僅有助於我們減少碳足跡，也支持南非的能源之路。

Additionally, natural gas serves is a crucial transition fuel in both Sasol and South Africa's energy mix. In line with this, we continue to optimize and mature projects in Southern Mozambique. The efforts aimed to extend our gas plateau to supply our customers for as long as feasibly possible.

此外，天然氣是薩索爾和南非能源結構中至關重要的過渡燃料。為此，我們不斷優化和成熟莫三比克南部的計畫。這些努力旨在延長我們的天然氣平台，以盡可能長時間地為我們的客戶提供服務。

Through this, we are pleased to confirm that we can continue the supply of natural gas and methane-rich gas to our customers up to the end of FY 2027. As previously communicated, gas in the SaaS of Mozambique is running out. To close this gap and in response to our energy country needs, we're investigating the potential for future LNG supply.

透過這一點，我們很高興地確認，我們可以在 2027 財年年底之前繼續向客戶供應天然氣和富含甲烷的氣體。正如之前所傳達的，莫三比克 SaaS 中的天然氣即將耗盡。為了縮小這一差距並滿足我們能源國家的需求，我們正在研究未來液化天然氣供應的潛力。

A critical factor for enabling LNG supply is securing confirmed demand, which will support the development of an LNG terminal and its associated infrastructure. The terminal will also pave way for other customers to come online in the future. Innovation in our feedstock is pivotal for our transformation. We are actively balancing the use of renewable feedstocks in power generation and transforming these feedstocks into fuels.

實現液化天然氣供應的關鍵因素是確保確定的需求，這將支持液化天然氣接收站及其相關基礎設施的發展。該終端也將為未來其他客戶上網鋪路。原料創新對於我們的轉型至關重要。我們正在積極平衡再生原料在發電中的使用，並將這些原料轉化為燃料。

By scaling these opportunities in the future and leveraging our existing facilities and our future Tropsch technology, we can diversify our feedstock mix. In March 2024, we also launched Zaffra, the joint venture with Topsoe aiming to become a player in the aviation industry by focusing on the development and delivery of sustainable aviation fuel.

透過擴大未來的這些機會並利用我們現有的設施和未來的托羅普希技術，我們可以實現原料組合的多樣化。2024 年 3 月，我們還成立了與托普索的合資企業 Zaffra，旨在透過專注於永續航空燃料的開發和供應，成為航空業的參與者。

As mentioned, we will provide more detail on these exciting developments next year at our Capital Markets Day. As we look towards the future, our goal is clear, build a sustainable Sasol, which is profitable and adaptable in the future. By embracing agility will ensure that Sasol navigate the challenges and the changing landscape. This includes our commitment to reducing our greenhouse gas emission and the carbon intensity of our operations.

如前所述，我們將在明年的資本市場日提供有關這些令人興奮的發展的更多詳細資訊。展望未來，我們的目標很明確，那就是建立一個可持續發展、獲利且適應未來的沙索。透過擁抱敏捷性，將確保沙索應對挑戰和不斷變化的情況。這包括我們對減少溫室氣體排放和營運碳強度的承諾。

Our journey is one of strengthening and growing and through innovation, driving transformation towards future Sasol. I am both excited and confident that together, we'll build an even greater Sasol. I firmly believe that our future will surpass our past achievements.

我們的旅程是加強和成長，並透過創新推動轉型，邁向未來的沙索。我既興奮又充滿信心，我們將共同打造一個更偉大的沙索。我深信，我們的未來一定會超越過去的成就。

On that note, I'm delighted to announce Walt Bruns as our new Group CFO. At the same time, I'd like to extend our heartfelt thanks to our outgoing CFO, Hanre Rossouw, who head our financial outcomes over the last two years. It has been a pleasure to present my first set of results today. My executive team and I look forward for further discussion in the conference call shortly. Thank you.

就此而言，我很高興宣布沃爾特布倫斯 (Walt Bruns) 擔任我們新任集團財務長。同時，我要向即將卸任的財務長 Hanre Rossouw 表示衷心的感謝，他在過去兩年中負責我們的財務表現。今天很高興展示我的第一組結果。我和我的執行團隊期待很快在電話會議上進行進一步討論。謝謝。

Thank you, Simon. This concludes our results presentation for today, and we'll commence with the question-and-answer session after a short five-minute break. Thank you.

謝謝你，西蒙。我們今天的結果展示到此結束，在短暫的五分鐘休息後，我們將開始問答環節。謝謝。

(break)

（休息）

Good morning, and welcome to this question-and-answer session for Sasol's 2024 financial results. With us in the room today are other members of Sasol's Group executive management team. To my left, Antje Gerber, EVP of International Chemicals.

早安，歡迎參加沙索 2024 年財務業績問答環節。今天與我們一起出席會議的還有沙索集團執行管理團隊的其他成員。我左邊是國際化學品公司執行副總裁 Antje Gerber。

On my right-hand side, starting with Christian Herrmann, EVP of Marketing and Sales, Energy & Chemicals Southern Africa; Victor Bester next to him, the Executive Vice President of Operations and Projects. And on my far right, Hermann Wenhold, EVP of Mining, Risk, and SHE. Also participating online, we have a few other executives, Vuyo Kahla, who is the EVP of Commercial and Legal; Sarushen Pillay the EVP of Business Building Strategy and Technology; and Charlotte Mokoena, EVP of Human Resources and Stakeholder Relations and Corporate Affairs.

在我的右手邊，首先是南非能源與化學品部門行銷與銷售執行副總裁 Christian Herrmann；他旁邊的是營運和專案執行副總裁維克多·貝斯特 (Victor Bester)。我最右邊的是 Hermann Wenhold，採礦、風險和 SHE 執行副總裁。我們還有其他幾位高階主管也在線上參與，Vuyo Kahla，他是商業和法律執行副總裁； Sarushen Pillay 業務建立策略與技術執行副總裁；以及人力資源、利害關係人關係和公司事務執行副總裁 Charlotte Mokoena。

(Event Instructions)

（活動須知）

With that, I'll start with the questions coming through the online platform. I'll direct the first set of questions to Hanre. A lot of questions received on the impairments and some context around that. Perhaps I'll read just the first three questions on the impairment theme from Lerato Chone at Momentum Investments.

接下來，我將從線上平台提出的問題開始。我將向 Hanre 提出第一組問題。收到了很多關於損害和相關背景的問題。也許我會只閱讀 Momentum Investments 的 Lerato Chone 提出的關於減損主題的前三個問題。

What has caused these impairments, which led to the losses experienced by the group? And in your analyst book, you unpacked the impairments related to the ethane value chain, where you state including options based on adjusting current asset and/or value chain footprint. Are you considering a full exit from Chemicals America? Or what other options are being considered and that's from Warren Riley at Bateleur Capital?

是什麼造成了這些減值，從而導致集團遭受損失？在您的分析師書中，您解開了與乙烷價值鏈相關的損害，其中您指出包括基於調整當前資產和/或價值鏈足蹟的選項。您是否正在考慮完全退出美國化學品公司？或者還有哪些其他選擇正在考慮中，這是來自 Bateleur Capital 的 Warren Riley 的？

Also, from [Ray Stain] who is a private investor and Bheki Mthethwa from Bateleur Capital.

此外，還有私人投資者 [Ray Stain] 和來自 Bateleur Capital 的 Bheki Mthethwa。

The last question in the series revolves around the free cash flow and breakeven rand oil price, which is a standard question we get for all results. I think I'll hand over to you with those set of questions, Hanre.

該系列的最後一個問題圍繞著自由現金流和盈虧平衡蘭特油價，這是我們在所有結果中獲得的標準問題。我想我會把這些問題交給你，漢雷。

Thank you, Tiffany. I think firstly, perhaps just background on impairments. Of course, we all know it's an accounting aspect that at the end of each financial period. You have to assess the carrying value of your asset base.

謝謝你，蒂芙尼。我認為首先，也許只是障礙的背景。當然，我們都知道這是每個財務期末的會計方面。您必須評估資產基礎的帳面價值。

And I think what we've seen and certainly the accounting standards talks about the impairment indicator being your market cap being significantly lower than the net asset value on the books. So to that extent, we had a net asset value of over ZAR300 a share.

我認為我們所看到的以及當然會計準則所談論的減值指標是您的市值明顯低於帳面資產淨值。因此，我們的每股資產淨值超過 300 南非蘭特。

Share price has already reflected that a lot of value has been lost in kind of lower financial outlook. So I think that really then triggers the impairment assessment, and we do that by each cash-generating unit to assess the carrying value of that. Perhaps just to unpack then the big impact on the US impairment and the US chemical assets. And there, we've seen a significant decline in our long-term pricing.

股價已經反映出財務前景不佳導致大量價值損失。因此，我認為這確實會觸發減損評估，我們對每個現金產生單位進行減損評估，以評估其帳面價值。也許只是為了揭示對美國減損和美國化工資產的巨大影響。在那裡，我們看到長期定價大幅下降。

Note 8 in the financial statements unpacks the assumptions. There we've seen kind of lower ethane ethylene and polyethylene prices and that change in prices has dropped the carrying value then of those assets.

財務報表附註 8 闡述了這些假設。我們看到乙烷、乙烯和聚乙烯價格下降，價格變化降低了這些資產的帳面價值。

The question around the -- including of option based on adjusting current asset and portfolio really relates to our assessment of the cash generating units, the way that we operate those assets. So no way does it infer any ambition to sell or restructure the portfolio? It really relates to the assessment of the asset base when we do the carrying value assessments.

圍繞著——包括基於調整流動資產和投資組合的選擇權——的問題確實與我們對現金產生單位的評估以及我們運作這些資產的方式有關。那麼這是否意味著任何出售或重組投資組合的野心呢？當我們進行帳面價值評估時，它確實與資產基礎的評估有關。

Then just lastly, Tiffany, in terms of the free cash flow for the South African value chain. Last year, we saw around $58 a barrel going forward, expect that with the cost initiatives to be around $55 a barrel. I think important that one has to then look also at the rand-dollar exchange rate. And if you apply that, it's just over 100 -- sorry, just over ZAR1,000 per barrel is then the breakeven of the South African value chain. Thanks.

最後，蒂芙尼在南非價值鏈的自由現金流方面。去年，我們預計未來油價將達到每桶 58 美元左右，考慮到成本舉措，預計該價格將達到每桶 55 美元左右。我認為重要的是，人們也必須關注蘭特兌美元匯率。如果你應用這一點，它只是 100 多一點——抱歉，每桶 1,000 南非蘭特多一點就是南非價值鏈的盈虧平衡點。謝謝。

Thank you, Hanre. I think a further question just on the detailed assumptions. I think you've already covered that in reference Note 8 in our AFS, that was from Andrew Snowdowne at Sanlam Investment. I think then similar theme to impairments, there are a few questions around the international chemicals and the business outlook.

謝謝你，漢雷。我認為進一步的問題只是關於詳細的假設。我想您已經在我們的 AFS 參考註釋 8 中介紹了這一點，該註釋來自 Sanlam Investment 的 Andrew Snowdowne。我認為與減損主題類似，圍繞國際化學品和業務前景存在一些問題。

Simon, perhaps a question for you. Could you talk about what's going on in the Chems Americas segment? You've had an operating loss before the impairments and barely any free cash flow. This is despite close to record low ethane prices and very different from what the peers in the US are seeing. Are there any issues specific to the portfolio or assets that are driving this disconnect and this comes from Sriharsha Pappu at HSBC. I'll leave -- pause there.

西蒙，也許有個問題想問你。您能談談 Chems Americas 部門的最新情況嗎？在減損之前，您已經出現了經營虧損，幾乎沒有任何自由現金流。儘管乙烷價格接近歷史最低水平，而且與美國同行所看到的情況截然不同。是否有任何特定於投資組合或資產的問題導致了這種脫節，這來自匯豐銀行的 Sriharsha Pappu。我要離開──停在那裡。

Yes. Thank you, Tiffany. Thank you, Sriharsha, for your question. You remember in Chemicals America, our value chain there is, I mean, is relatively divided into two, which is your cracker and the units associated with the cracker and the downstream units. So I mean, the utilization of our cracker, that's on par with our peers.

是的。謝謝你，蒂芙尼。謝謝斯里哈沙的提問。你還記得在美國化學品公司，我們的價值鏈，我的意思是，相對地分為兩部分，即你的裂解裝置以及與裂解裝置和下游裝置相關的裝置。所以我的意思是，我們的餅乾的利用率與我們的同行相當。

However, the demand in the downstream units, I mean, and this is a global issue, the demand in the downstream units is below where we expect it to be. And I mean, as we've said during the presentation, we're already intervening costs. That's what we've seen our peers doing.

然而，我的意思是，下游裝置的需求，這是一個全球性問題，下游裝置的需求低於我們的預期。我的意思是，正如我們在演示中所說，我們已經在幹預成本了。這就是我們看到的同行所做的事情。

So we're intervening in that segment to make sure that we will rationalize, I mean, some of the assets if we need to do so. But there's nothing specific that's having into the asset are what generally, the market sees especially on the downstream units.

因此，我們正在幹預該領域，以確保我們能夠在需要時合理化部分資產。但該資產並沒有什麼特別之處，尤其是在下游單位。

Thank you, Simon. I think moving on to our Southern Africa operational side of things. There's a question from Lerato Tshoni from Momentum. And the [lady in Klan Kaniiso from Bani Rabi]. How does the management team plan to respond to the issue of gas depletion expected in the next few years? And if they plan to offset against the expected gas decline?

謝謝你，西蒙。我想繼續討論我們南部非洲的營運方面。Momentum 的 Lerato Tshoni 有一個問題。還有[來自巴尼拉比的 Klan Kaniiso 女士]。管理團隊計劃如何應對未來幾年預計的天然氣枯竭問題？他們是否計劃抵消預期的天然氣下降？

Yes, I'll start, then I'll hand over to Christian in terms of what we're doing. As we previously communicated, gas in the south of Mozambique is getting finished. You remember that as far as our customers are concerned, we did give a date of 2026 as the deadline.

是的，我會開始，然後我將把我們正在做的事情交給克里斯蒂安。正如我們之前所傳達的，莫三比克南部的天然氣即將完工。您還記得，就我們的客戶而言，我們確實給出了 2026 年作為最後期限。

However, we did some projects to try and optimize the gas that is there, and we can extend that through in 2027. But in our view, customers have to move to LNG. There's no any other option or with prospects of finding more gas in the South Mozambique. Christian, you can elaborate.

然而，我們做了一些項目來嘗試優化那裡的天然氣，我們可以將其延續到 2027 年。但我們認為，客戶必須轉向液化天然氣。沒有其他選擇，也沒有希望在莫三比克南部找到更多天然氣。克里斯蒂安，你可以詳細說明一下。

Yes. Thank you very much, Simon. So first of all, we are extremely happy today to extend now by one year from the 2026 time line now to the mid-June 2027. We're also working on other projects that potentially could also extend their timeline even to mid-2028. Those projects carry risk, and they come with significant investment. And the FID still has to be taken.

是的。非常感謝你，西蒙。首先，我們今天非常高興將 2026 年的時間表延長一年至 2027 年 6 月中旬。我們也正在研究其他項目，這些項目的時間表甚至可能延長至 2028 年中期。這些項目存在風險，並且需要大量投資。而且 FID 仍然需要進行。

We anticipate that to happen in the first half of 2025. But there are opportunities that we are heavily and really intensely looking at in order to serve as a bridge then to the LNG market. And it takes roughly three to four years to prepare and build an LNG infrastructure, and that's what we are interested. And we would like to also continue acting as an aggregator in the gas market in South Africa.

我們預計這將在 2025 年上半年發生。但我們正在密切關註一些機會，以便成為通往液化天然氣市場的橋樑。準備和建造液化天然氣基礎設施大約需要三到四年的時間，這正是我們感興趣的。我們也希望繼續充當南非天然氣市場的聚合商。

And that's the reason why, as we speak right now, we are engaging with our customers, our gas customers, more than 300 in South Africa and starting to set up meetings to see what is the demand going forward because we need to have commitments because, we need to work together in order to make that happen for the future gas supply in South Africa.

這就是為什麼，正如我們現在所說，我們正在與我們的客戶、我們的天然氣客戶、南非的 300 多家客戶進行接觸，並開始召開會議來了解未來的需求，因為我們需要做出承諾，因為，我們需要共同努力，以實現南非未來的天然氣供應。

So bottom line is we are very happy to be able now to extend gas supply coming from Mozambique. But as Simon mentioned, this is finite, and we want to work together with our customers to transition into LNG. And maybe Victor would like to add something on the projects and the technicalities what we have done in Mozambique to extend that.

因此，最重要的是，我們很高興現在能夠擴大莫三比克的自然供應。但正如西蒙所說，這是有限的，我們希望與客戶合作，過渡到液化天然氣。也許維克多想在專案和技術細節上添加一些內容，我們在莫三比克所做的工作是為了擴展這一點。

Thank you, Christian. I think you've sufficiently answered the question, but I'll just detail out. We have specific projects that are underway. We've taken FID on three infill wells, which will basically supplement our well capacity in Mozambique. We are busy with exploration activities in the PT 5C area. And there, we're actively involved with two wells.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。我認為你已經充分回答了這個問題，但我只是詳細說明一下。我們有正在進行中的具體項目。我們已經對三口加密井進行了最終投資決定，這基本上將補充我們在莫三比克的油井產能。我們正忙於 PT 5C 區域的勘探活動。在那裡，我們積極參與了兩口井的開發。

And then, of course, we continue to look for opportunities to extend the plateau. But at this stage, our indications are that the plateau will decline towards the end of FY 2028.

然後，當然，我們會繼續尋找機會來延長這個平台期。但現階段，我們的跡象表明，這一平穩期將在 2028 財年末下降。

Thank you, Simon, Christian, and Victor, for that color. I'm going to switch to Chorus call. Operator, over to you for the first question, please.

謝謝西蒙、克里斯蒂安和維克多提供的這種顏色。我要切換到合唱通話。接線員，第一個問題請您回答。

Adrian Hammond, SBG Securities.

阿德里安·哈蒙德，SBG 證券公司。

Yes. Good morning, Simon and Hanre. Thanks for the opportunity. Well done on the improved second half. Simon, firstly, you talked about an asset review. Can you give a bit more color on this? And would you include our CCP as part of that potential sale review?

是的。早安，西蒙和漢雷。感謝您提供的機會。下半場有所改善，做得很好。西蒙，首先，您談到了資產審查。你能對此提供更多的顏色嗎？您是否會將我們的 CCP 作為潛在銷售審查的一部分？

And then I think just curious to get a bit more color on the successful appeal for 12A emission standards to 2030. Is the scope to extend beyond 2050. And any sort of further color on carbon tax allowances beyond 2030 as well.

然後我想對 2030 年 12A 排放標準的成功呼籲有更多的了解。範圍是否延伸至2050年後。2030 年以後的碳稅補助也有任何進一步的色彩。

And then for Hanre, just looking at the balance sheet, you're sitting on quite a chunk of cash of ZAR45 billion, but you've got debt that could be repaid and reduce your very high finance cost. So what's the plan or thinking around that? And have you done any more hedging as well since the end of June. Thanks.

然後對於 Hanre，只要看看資產負債表，你就坐擁 450 億南非蘭特的大量現金，但你有可以償還的債務，並降低你非常高的財務成本。那麼圍繞這個的計劃或想法是什麼？自六月底以來，您是否還進行了更多的對沖操作？謝謝。

Yes. Thank you, Adrian. Let me start with -- yes, the CCP asset review questions and then go over to the turf. So what we're going to do, I mean, the CCP, as we've previously communicated, you remember, we still own, I mean, 50% of the cracker and the two downstream units. We will continuously review that and look at timing. I mean for me, it's all about timing.

是的。謝謝你，阿德里安。讓我從——是的，中共資產審查問題開始，然後再討論主題。所以我們要做的，我的意思是，中共，正如我們之前溝通過的，你記住，我們仍然擁有，我的意思是，裂解裝置和兩個下游裝置的 50％。我們將不斷審查這一點並考慮時機。我的意思是對我來說，一切都與時機有關。

If you look at where we are right now in the cycle, I mean, it won't be attractive. We don't think that's going to I mean help us to generate any value for the shareholders. But at the right time, you can consider that. However, what we want to focus on when we talk about, I mean, a review of our assets, we're going to look at our global international chemicals portfolio.

如果你看看我們現在在周期中所處的位置，我的意思是，它不會有吸引力。我們認為這不會幫助我們為股東創造任何價值。但在適當的時候，你可以考慮這一點。然而，當我們談論我們的資產時，我們想要重點關注的是我們的資產審查，我們將著眼於我們的全球國際化學品投資組合。

We're going to go through asset by asset, and we're going to take decisive actions on underperforming assets. And it's something that I can -- I mean in a moment, you just add more color to it in terms of your thinking how we're going to approach it.

我們將逐項檢查資產，並對表現不佳的資產採取果斷行動。這是我可以做的事情——我的意思是，一會兒，你只需在思考我們將如何處理它時為其添加更多色彩即可。

And before I hand over to Antje on the 12A, yes, I mean we're very, very thankful to our teams. I think it was incredible to work with our technical, legal, and our communication teams to make sure that we -- I mean, arrived at a successful conclusion of the 12A. I'll actually encourage many of you who've not seen all our submissions because they are on our website. It was truly a great -- I mean, sure of what is possible.

在我將 12A 的任務交給 Antje 之前，是的，我的意思是我們非常非常感謝我們的團隊。我認為與我們的技術、法律和溝通團隊合作以確保我們——我的意思是，成功完成 12A 的工作是令人難以置信的。實際上，我會鼓勵那些沒有看到我們所有提交內容的人，因為它們都在我們的網站上。這確實是一個偉大的——我的意思是，確信一切皆有可能。

So on the 12A, I mean that at least gives us respite to make sure that we can, I mean, low fully operate our plants and to reduce -- I mean, like we said, this is to make sure you comply to SO2. And you remember, I mean, our SO2 solution as we reduced SO2 has got some integrated benefits. So we'll also derive.

因此，在12A 上，我的意思是，至少給我們喘息的機會，以確保我們能夠，我的意思是，充分運行我們的工廠並減少- 我的意思是，就像我們所說的，這是為了確保遵守SO2。我的意思是，您還記得，我們​​減少 SO2 的 SO2 解決方案具有一些綜合效益。所以我們也來推導一下。

Carbon tax is an issue of allowance. Allowances are very, very clear and set to 2030. But you remember, there's no clarity yet. I mean after 2030, we've been engaging.

碳稅是補貼問題。津貼非常非常明確，並設定為 2030 年。但你記住，目前還不清楚。我的意思是 2030 年後，我們一直在接觸。

Treasury is the critical stakeholder here. So we've got some time we've been engaging so that they can afford clarity not only to us, but to the rest of the market, in terms of how the regime is going to progress until 2030. So we'll continue that engagement. We'll contribute that work, and it's something that I mentioned that, that risk still remains.

財政部是這裡的關鍵利害關係人。因此，我們有一些時間進行參與，以便他們不僅可以向我們，而且可以向市場的其他參與者澄清該制度在 2030 年之前將如何進展。因此，我們將繼續這種接觸。我們將貢獻這項工作，正如我所提到的，風險仍然存在。

However, if I look at how our team is working with our stakeholders, including the minister managed to deal with the 12A, I'm confident that we should be able to get a successful conclusion on that one, but it requires time. And we'll continue with the engagement. On that note, Antje, any more color on the asset review just for the dual international chemicals portfolio?

然而，如果我看看我們的團隊如何與利益相關者合作，包括部長如何設法處理 12A，我相信我們應該能夠就這一問題取得成功的結論，但這需要時間。我們將繼續參與。在這一點上，Antje，對於雙重國際化學品投資組合的資產審查還有更多的色彩嗎？

Yes. Thank you, Simon, and thank you for the question, Adrian. Since I joined Sasol in April, the entire leadership team of International Chemicals is doing a reset of the organization. We are reviewing everything in the organization to improve our performance, which is yes, unfortunately, lagging behind, and that includes as well our asset footprint.

是的。謝謝你，西蒙，也謝謝你提出的問題，阿德里安。自從我四月加入沙索以來，國際化學品公司的整個領導團隊正在對組織進行重組。我們正在審查組織中的一切，以提高我們的績效，不幸的是，這確實落後了，這也包括我們的資產足跡。

Luckily, the new operating model allows us work much closer together across America and Europe and assess the asset footprint as well, which we have on both sides of the pond. We have some underperforming assets. We're looking at how can we improve that from a market perspective, go-to-market view, but also, yes, obviously, we will assess all other options, which go with an asset revenue not only in America but also in Europe.

幸運的是，新的營運模式使我們能夠在美國和歐洲更緊密地合作，並評估我們在大西洋兩岸的資產足跡。我們有一些表現不佳的資產。我們正在研究如何從市場角度、進入市場的角度來改進這一點，而且，是的，顯然，我們將評估所有其他選項，這些選項不僅在美國而且在歐洲都與資產收入相關。

Perhaps, just to talk about the debt reduction plan. I think, Adrian, you correctly pointed out the cash on the balance sheet. And if we take into account also the remaining part on the RCF, we've got a total of about ZAR75 billion of liquidity.

或許，只是談談債務削減計畫。我認為，阿德里安，你正確地指出了資產負債表上的現金。如果我們也考慮到 RCF 的剩餘部分，我們總共擁有約 750 億南非蘭特的流動性。

I think important that we maintain sufficient liquidity to also go into refinancing. We've got a bond coming up for redemption in 2026, and we'll continue to proactively look at extending the tenor of our bonds, refinancing that. So very comfortable at the moment with that flexibility on the balance sheet. And we will maintain the approach we've done historically to proactively manage that refinancing and make sure that we've got robust liquidity.

我認為重要的是我們保持足夠的流動性以進行再融資。我們有一張債券將於 2026 年贖回，我們將繼續積極考慮延長債券期限，為其再融資。目前對資產負債表的彈性感到非常滿意。我們將維持以往的做法，主動管理再融資，並確保我們擁有強勁的流動性。

In terms of hedging, kind of important question, I think also goes back to the earlier question around the breakeven. So to that extent, we continue with limited hedging. We've significantly reduced our hedging now targeting 20% to 35% hedge cover ratio.

就對沖而言，這是一個重要的問題，我認為這也可以追溯到先前關於盈虧平衡的問題。因此，從這個意義上說，我們繼續進行有限的對沖。我們大幅減少了對沖，目前目標是 20% 至 35% 的對沖覆蓋率。

On the US dollar side, we've got about $1.5 billion of hedges with a floor of around 17, 35, 17, 70 that protects us for a strengthening of the rand.

在美元方面，我們有大約 15 億美元的對沖，下限約為 17、35、17、70，可以保護我們免受蘭特走強的影響。

On the oil price side, we've got put options then to also protect any downside exposure below that around the $58 a barrel level. As I've mentioned, it's a lower level, and we do believe that a balanced approach that we are taking factors in the overall assessment of risk on the balance sheet.

在油價方面，我們有看跌期權，可以保護任何低於每桶 58 美元水平的下行風險。正如我所提到的，這是一個較低的水平，我們確實相信我們正在採取的平衡方法會影響資產負債表風險的整體評估。

Thank you, Hanre. Moving on to the next call on Chorus Call.

謝謝你，漢雷。繼續進行合唱呼叫的下一個通話。

Chris Nicholson, RMB Morgan Stanley.

克里斯‧尼克森 (Chris Nicholson)，人民幣摩根士丹利。

Hi, good morning, Simon, Hanre and team. I'm going to just go back to the impairment in the chemical segment again. I think it will clearly be a focus area of these results. Previously, for the US or the American chemical complex, you've guided to a longer-term EBITDA of around $700 million to $900 million. I mean, in your impairment spreadsheet, I suppose, when you come back for the CGU with lower prices, that EBITDA will now be lower.

嗨，早上好，西蒙、漢雷和團隊。我將再次回到化學領域的減損問題。我認為這顯然將成為這些結果的重點領域。此前，對於美國或美國化工廠，您指導的長期 EBITDA 約為 7 億至 9 億美元。我的意思是，在你的減損電子表格中，我想，當你以較低的價格返回 CGU 時，EBITDA 現在會更低。

So maybe could you give us some clarity on what sort of longer-term EBITDA generation from the Chemical America complexes now implies? That's the first question there.

那麼，也許您能否向我們介紹美國化學綜合體現在意味著什麼樣的長期 EBITDA 生成？這是第一個問題。

Second question is really on what you're talking about in terms of reviewing the footprint of your assets and potentially taking decisive action. Maybe just a bit more detail on kind of what exactly that involves and kind of what your metrics you'll look at? I mean, are you prepared to keep an asset if it's free cash flow positive, if it's EBITDA positive? Or are you going to apply some kind of hurdle rates? Does it need to earn a certain return on invested capital? So how should we think about that?

第二個問題實際上是關於您所談論的審查資產足跡並可能採取果斷行動的內容。也許只是更詳細地說明這到底涉及什麼以及您將要查看的指標是什麼？我的意思是，如果一項資產的自由現金流為正，且 EBITDA 為正，你準備保留該資產嗎？或者您打算應用某種最低門檻利率嗎？是否需要獲得一定的投資報酬率？那我們該如何思考呢？

And I'm just mindful of that, that you've -- obviously, Sasol went through quite an extensive review of the chemical, put all the assets about two, three years back. So I think, yes, let's leave it there for those two questions. Thank you.

我只是注意到這一點，顯然，沙索對這種化學物質進行了相當廣泛的審查，將所有資產放在大約兩三年前。所以我想，是的，讓我們把這兩個問題留在那裡。謝謝。

Thank you, Chris. Simon, do you want to start?

謝謝你，克里斯。西蒙，你想開始嗎？

Yes. Thank you, Chris. I mean, so what we're going to do, the focus area is actually going to be on making sure that there's a return on investment, on invested capital on the asset and also the ability to generate free cash flow because what we want is that we want the assets to contribute into the group profitability. So that's what we're going to do. And we'll do this on an entire global landscape of all our assets.

是的。謝謝你，克里斯。我的意思是，我們要做的重點領域實際上是確保投資回報、資產投資資本以及產生自由現金流的能力，因為我們想要的是我們希望這些資產能為集團獲利能力做出貢獻。這就是我們要做的。我們將在我們所有資產的整個全球範圍內做到這一點。

Thanks, Chris. Perhaps just to come back to your question around EBITDA guidance. I think for exactly that reason, I would not be venturing into taking another guess at what the price could be. We've seen significant change in long-term assumptions. So to that extent, for example, you'll see in Note 8, I think it's page 44 in financial statements.

謝謝，克里斯。也許只是回到你關於 EBITDA 指導的問題。我認為正是出於這個原因，我不會冒險再次猜測價格可能是多少。我們看到長期假設發生了重大變化。因此，就這一點而言，例如，您會在註 8 中看到，我認為它是財務報表中的第 44 頁。

We show the updated price assumptions. LLDPE price, for example, is 13% lower with already depressed margins. That, of course, had an impact of lowering the EBITDA forecast in our model. But I think given volatility of price, volatility of input costs, it's best not to try and take a guess on what these long-term estimates would be.

我們顯示更新的價格假設。例如，LLDPE 價格下跌 13%，而利潤率已經很低。當然，這會降低我們模型中的 EBITDA 預測。但我認為，考慮到價格的波動性、投入成本的波動性，最好不要試著猜測這些長期估計值是什麼。

Okay. Thanks for your set of questions, Chris. Moving back to the online platform. There's a couple of questions around our balance sheet management and dividend. Hanre, perhaps for you to address.

好的。謝謝你提出的一系列問題，克里斯。回到線上平台。關於我們的資產負債表管理和股利存在幾個問題。漢雷（Hanre），也許你要講話。

I'll start with the first two, one from (inaudible) assets with a new dividend policy, does this mean that Sasol's net debt is now ZAR4 billion before leases. And is it fair to assume that there will not be active debt reduction below this level?

我將從前兩項開始，其中一項來自採用新股息政策的（聽不清楚）資產，這是否意味著沙索的淨債務現在為 40 億南非蘭特（不含租賃）。假設不會主動將債務削減到低於這一水平是否公平？

I think the second one on a similar theme, how should we approach your CapEx spending over the medium term relative to previous years, just around the plan around getting net debt below ZAR4 billion to bring back dividends and also the plan to reduce gross debt. Similarly, are you planning to introduce any refinancing maturities with more ZAR-denominated debt into your total debt mix? And that comes from Gustavo Compass at Jefferies.

我認為第二個主題是類似的，與前幾年相比，我們應該如何處理中期資本支出，圍繞將淨債務降至 40 億南非蘭特以下以收回股息的計劃，以及減少總債務的計劃。同樣，您是否計劃將更多以南非蘭特計價的債務引入任何再融資期限到您的總債務組合中？這來自 Jefferies 的 Gustavo Compass。

Thanks, Tiffany. Thanks, Gustavo for that question. Firstly, just in terms of what is the debt target. I think certainly, the current base where we are, the ZAR4.1 billion net debt gives us about a 1.5 times net debt-to-EBITDA ratio. So it's a comfortable ratio. But what we're signaling through the dividend policy is that we do want to get debt to below that level, so from a first order capital allocation perspective, we will prioritize the repayment of debt before dividends then.

謝謝，蒂芙尼。謝謝古斯塔沃提出這個問題。首先，就債務目標而言。我當然認為，我們目前的基礎是 41 億南非蘭特的淨債務，淨債務與 EBITDA 的比率約為 1.5 倍。所以這是一個舒適的比例。但我們透過股利政策發出的信號是，我們確實希望將債務降至該水平以下，因此從一階資本配置的角度來看，我們將優先償還債務，然後再支付股息。

So to the extent that we are above the ZAR4 billion mark. All cash will go to debt repayment. Only then when we're below the ZAR4 billion, we will continue with debt repayment, 70% of the cash then get for that consideration, 30% going to the dividend. And ultimately, I think as we've signaled previously as well, we do want to target lower leverage ratios than the 1.5 times net debt to EBITDA.

因此，我們已經超過了 40 億蘭特大關。所有現金將用於償還債務。只有當我們低於40億南非蘭特時，我們才會繼續償還債務，然後獲得70%的現金作為對價，30%用於股息。最終，我認為正如我們之前所暗示的那樣，我們確實希望目標槓桿率低於 EBITDA 淨債務 1.5 倍。

In terms of overall absolute gross debt levels, yes, we're sitting around $6 billion of US-denominated debt. I think important that we'll continue, as I mentioned earlier, to retain flexibility on that proactive refinancing that kind of we've got through the actions we've done in the last 18 to 24 months.

就整體絕對總債務水準而言，是的，我們持有約 60 億美元的美元債務。我認為重要的是，正如我之前提到的，我們將繼續在主動再融資方面保持靈活性，就像我們在過去 18 至 24 個月中採取的行動一樣。

I think we're in a very comfortable position, but we'll continue with that track record to proactively manage maturities. To that extent, I can't elaborate on any other current plans other than to say that we will continuously to look at the market opportunities to refinance, but ultimately reduce our absolute gross debt level as well, given cash generation as we pay down debt. The preference then will be to issue more rand debt, and you'll see that in the MTN that we've continued to tap that market, whilst we reduced the US dollar-denominated debt.

我認為我們處於一個非常舒適的位置，但我們將繼續保持這項記錄，主動管理到期日。從這個意義上說，我無法詳細說明任何其他當前計劃，只能說我們將不斷尋找再融資的市場機會，但最終也會降低我們的絕對總債務水平，因為我們在償還債務時會產生現金。那麼首選將是發行更多蘭特債務，您將在中期票據中看到我們繼續開發該市場，同時減少了以美元計價的債務。

Thank you, Hanre. I think two more questions on the balance sheet from Thobela Bixa at Nedbank. Previously, you were able to pay dividend when the net debt was above ZAR4 billion. So how come you decided to skip the dividend this time around? And any cash requirements in the near future that cause the Board to be more cautious. I think that speaks to the new policy. And then I think another question from Egor Fedorov from ING. Do you plan any debt programs linked to your carbon emission reduction in the future?

謝謝你，漢雷。我認為萊利銀行的托貝拉·比薩 (Thobela Bixa) 也提出了兩個關於資產負債表的問題。此前，當淨債務超過 40 億南非蘭特時，您就可以支付股息。那麼，你們這次為何決定不發放股息呢？近期的任何現金需求都會導致董事會更加謹慎。我認為這說明了新政策。然後我想到 ING 的 Egor Fedorov 提出的另一個問題。您未來是否計劃與碳減排相關的任何債務計劃？

Thanks. I think important to note that, of course, the full-year dividend for 2023 was based on our core headline earnings per share. So it's the old 2.5 times to 2.8 times cover ratio. Effectively, what that meant then is we did pay debt out of -- we did pay dividends out of debt.

謝謝。當然，我認為值得注意的是，2023 年的全年股息是基於我們的核心每股盈餘。所以它是舊的 2.5 倍到 2.8 倍覆蓋率。實際上，這意味著我們確實用債務支付了股息——我們確實用債務支付了股息。

So you would notice that at the end of 2023, we ended at USD3.8 billion of net debt. And with the ZAR6 billion final dividend that was paid through the year, we effectively geared up to the half year. At the half year, we noted that we will be reviewing the dividend policy, so to that extent, declared a ZAR2 per share dividend.

所以你會注意到，到 2023 年底，我們的淨債務為 38 億美元。全年支付了 60 億蘭特的末期股息，我們有效地為半年做好了準備。半年時，我們注意到我們將審查股利政策，因此宣布每股股利為2南非蘭特。

And now with the full-year basis and the updated dividend policy, we, of course, passed in on the final dividend, bringing the full year dividend to ZAR2 per share. So I think that the principle really we're trying to base the dividend on is that free cash flow should be the basis of distribution of dividends. Of course, it also flows into the capital allocation framework where we look at that first order capital allocation underpinning that 30% to give a base dividend.

現在，有了全年基礎和更新的股息政策，我們當然可以派發末期股息，使全年股息達到每股 2 南非蘭特。所以我認為我們真正試圖建立股利的原則是自由現金流應該成為股利分配的基礎。當然，它也會流入資本配置框架，在該框架中，我們會考慮支援 30% 的第一順序資本配置，以提供基本股息。

But I think very important to actually then add that any further cash generation will also be considered in second order capital allocation where we will look at growth projects, whether it's inorganic, organic growth, all in further cash returns to shareholders.

但我認為非常重要的是，實際上，任何進一步的現金產生也將在二級資本配置中考慮，我們將在其中考慮增長項目，無論是無機增長還是有機增長，所有這些都是為了向股東提供進一步的現金回報。

So beyond just the 30% first order allocation, we would look at other returns of cash to shareholders, such as share buybacks, special dividends and the like. Just in terms of debt programs linked to 2030 emission targets, I think that would certainly be on the cards if we consider further bond issuance, and we would have to consider that relative to just kind of green bond sustainability-linked bonds or just plain vanilla bonds. So that will certainly be concerned.

因此，除了 30% 的優先分配之外，我們還會考慮股東的其他現金回報，例如股票回購、特別股息等。就與 2030 年排放目標相關的債務計劃而言，我認為如果我們考慮進一步發行債券，這肯定會成為可能，而且我們必須考慮相對於與永續發展相關的綠色債券或普通債券債券。所以一定會擔心。

Thank you for that, Hanre. There's another question on the operational side relating to gas. From Karabo Seima from Momentum, what is the expected gas price increase for the South African gas users for the transition to LNG, both from an industrial and household perspective. Simon?

謝謝你，漢雷。營運方面還有一個與天然氣相關的問題。Momentum 的 Karabo Seima 表示，從工業和家庭的角度來看，南非天然氣用戶向液化天然氣過渡的預期天然氣價格上漲是多少。西蒙？

Yes. Thank you, Karabo. I mean if you look at the current price, as regulated by NESA, I mean, it's between $3 and $3.5 per gigajoule. This press will increase around 4 times to 5 times. Of course, LNG is an internationally traded commodity. So you'll have to use the global benchmarks to bring the LNG.

是的。謝謝你，卡拉博。我的意思是，如果你看看 NESA 監管的當前價格，我的意思是，每千兆焦耳價格在 3 美元到 3.5 美元之間。這個壓力會增加大約4倍到5倍。當然，液化天然氣是一種國際貿易商品。因此，您必須使用全球基準來引入液化天然氣。

Of course, it's always based on oil price multiplier. So today, I mean, at around $80, the LNG prices are around $12, $13. So I mean that's the prices that we can expect.

當然，它始終基於油價乘數。所以今天，我的意思是，液化天然氣價格約為 80 美元，約 12 美元、13 美元。所以我的意思是，這就是我們可以預期的價格。

Great. Thank you. I think there's one last question. If you have any further question to submit, please submit your questions online or queue in chorus call. If there are no further questions, we will end the call a bit earlier. I think there's one further question from the online platform. In the context of your plan to decarbonize the business, are you considering the technologies like carbon capture at your facilities and converting this to carbon products that comes from the [Giacolo] from FLG.

偉大的。謝謝。我想還有最後一個問題。如果您還有任何其他問題需要提交，請在線提交您的問題或在群呼中排隊。如果沒有其他問題，我們將提前結束通話。我認為線上平台還有一個問題。在您的業務脫碳計劃中，您是否正在考慮在您的設施中採用碳捕獲等技術，並將其轉化為來自 FLG 的 [Giacolo] 的碳產品。

Yes. Thank you. In terms of, I mean, all future of seasonalities, we're actually working very, very closely with the Departments of Minerals and Energy and the Consoles of Geoscience. We actually have a test pilot program going on in Leandra, that's investigating carbon capture. So of course, if you capture the carbon, you can then check if you can make any products from it. But for now, it's only on carbon capture and storage that's being investigated. But you see that as a longer-term outlook.

是的。謝謝。我的意思是，就季節性的所有未來而言，我們實際上正在與礦物和能源部以及地球科學控制台非常非常密切地合作。實際上，我們在利安德拉正在進行一個試點項目，正在調查碳捕獲。當然，如果你捕獲了碳，你就可以檢查是否可以用它來製造任何產品。但目前，僅對碳捕獲和儲存進行了研究。但你認為這是一個更長期的前景。

Thanks for that question. I'm going to just ask Chorus Call if they are -- operator, if there are any other queued people on the call.

謝謝你提出這個問題。我只想詢問 Chorus Call 是否是接線員，是否有其他排隊的人正在通話。

Yes, ma'am. Sashank Lanka, Bank of America.

是的，女士。薩尚克·蘭卡，美國銀行。

Yes. Thank you very much for the presentation. I have two questions from my side. One, again, relates to the dividend policy. You do speak about net debt, excluding leases, sustainably being less than $4 billion. So could you just help us understand this better.

是的。非常感謝您的介紹。我這邊有兩個問題。其中之一又與股利政策有關。您確實提到淨債務（不包括租賃）持續低於 40 億美元。那麼您能幫助我們更好地理解這一點嗎？

I'm just wondering in the current coming periods, if you're still around the same net debt levels or slightly lower, would that trigger a dividend restart? Or do you need to see sustained periods of net debt less than $4 billion before you -- and comfortably below $4 billion before you start paying dividends? That's the first question.

我只是想知道在當前的未來時期，如果您的淨債務水平仍然相同或略低，這會觸發股息重啟嗎？或者您需要看到淨債務持續低於 40 億美元，並且在開始支付股息之前輕鬆低於 40 億美元？這是第一個問題。

And the second question is just on your destoning process. You did speak about FID, I think, in Q2 2025. So anything on the CapEx potentially to be spend any guidance you can provide us?

第二個問題是關於你的去石過程。我想，您確實在 2025 年第二季談到了 FID。那麼您可以為我們提供任何有關資本支出的潛在支出的指導嗎？

Thanks, Sashank. Let me start with the dividend question. I think you're spot on. So the dividend policy, of course, talks to paying a dividend whilst we're below $4 billion of net debt. We were smidgen above $4 billion.

謝謝，薩尚克。讓我從股息問題開始。我認為你說得對。因此，股利政策當然是指在我們的淨債務低於 40 億美元的情況下支付股利。我們的資產略高於 40 億美元。

And of course, the dividend policy talks about an assessment of being sustainably below. But I think to the extent that we can predict the market and the current outlook and of course, I'll put that with the requisite health warning, but we do currently, if one looks at the performance, the current pricing environment, we do expect them to pay interim and final dividend given the current outlook. But of course, that could change. But I think the important aspect is that using free cash flow as a basis for that payment.

當然，股利政策談到了對可持續低於股利的評估。但我認為，在某種程度上，我們可以預測市場和當前的前景，當然，我會加上必要的健康警告，但我們目前確實這樣做，如果人們看看表現、當前的定價環境，我們會這樣做鑑於目前的前景，預計他們將支付中期和末期股息。但當然，這可能會改變。但我認為重要的方面是使用自由現金流作為付款的基礎。

You have the question on destoning, Simon.

你有關於去石的問題，西蒙。

Yes. Sashank, thank you so much. Yes, I mean, coal quality remains a critical lever for us to restore our second operations back to the range of 7.5 to 7.6. So to that end, we focus on making sure that we address the coal quality.

是的。薩尚克，非常感謝你。是的，我的意思是，煤炭品質仍然是我們將第二次營運恢復到 7.5 至 7.6 範圍的關鍵槓桿。為此，我們重點關注確保解決煤炭品質問題。

Destoning is one of those critical interventions that we're busy with. So we're busy with study, and we will take FID, I mean, before the end of this calendar year. And after that, I mean, we'll implement the project, and we start seeing the benefits of destoning.

去石是我們忙於的關鍵幹預措施之一。所以我們忙於學習，我的意思是，我們將在今年年底之前進行 FID。我的意思是，在那之後，我們將實施該項目，我們開始看到去石的好處。

Thank you, Simon. Operator, are there any further questions on the Chorus Call platform?

謝謝你，西蒙。接線員，關於 Chorus Call 平台還有其他問題嗎？

We have no further questions at this stage, ma'am.

女士，現階段我們沒有其他問題了。

Thank you very much. Moving back to the online platform. A follow-up from Gustavo at Jefferies. Could you please elaborate on the medium-term plans around capital spending levels after 2025? Hanre, I think that's for you.

非常感謝。回到線上平台。傑富瑞 (Jefferies) 古斯塔沃 (Gustavo) 的後續行動。能否詳細介紹一下2025年後圍繞資本支出水準的中期計畫？漢雷，我想那是給你的。

And similarly, also, I saw a question from Mark Dtoy. Is there any scope to reduce capital expenditure to improve free cash flow generation. I’ll pause there.

同樣，我也看到了 Mark Dtoy 的一個問題。是否有空間減少資本支出以改善自由現金流的產生。我將在此暫停。

Thanks for those questions. And apologies, Gustavo, for remitting to answer that previously. I think important to note that, again, in capital allocation, our first order capital assessment firstly, start with putting the right amount of capital back into the business to sustain the safety and the sustainability ultimately, of those assets.

謝謝你提出這些問題。古斯塔沃，很抱歉之前特地回答了這個問題。我認為需要再次指出的是，在資本配置中，我們的首要資本評估首先是將適量的資本投入到業務中，以最終維持這些資產的安全性和永續性。

So currently, we're sitting around, as I've mentioned, around ZAR28 billion to ZAR30 billion per annum is the expectation of capital going forward in longer term. You would note that if you look at the previous year and the year before 2023 was actually our peak capital in terms of real-term capital expenditure.

因此，正如我所提到的，目前我們對未來長期資本的預期是每年約 280 億至 300 億南非蘭特。你會注意到，如果你看看前一年，2023 年之前的一年其實是我們實際資本支出的高峰。

So we do expect capital expenditure then to moderate. We've seen peak capital from PSA and that will then see capital decline over the coming years. That's, of course, on a first order capital basis. On a second order capital basis, we're only paying around ZAR1 billion at the moment, and we will look at approving only projects that give us a return in excess of the weighted average cost of capital. So hopefully, that covers the capital. But I think on the second -- that covers I think.

因此，我們預計資本支出隨後將會放緩。我們已經看到 PSA 的資本達到頂峰，但未來幾年資本將會下降。當然，這是在一階資本基礎上的。在二階資本基礎上，我們目前只支付約 10 億南非蘭特，我們只會考慮批准那些為我們帶來超過加權平均資本成本回報的項目。希望這涵蓋了首都。但我認為第二個——我認為這涵蓋了。

Yes, any opportunities for free cash flow generation to reduce capital, I think we've covered that. Further follow-up or another question from Jesse Armstrong from Fairtree. Would you consider share buybacks in the current financial year given the large cash balance? And if so, what is your guidance on level and volume of shares?

是的，任何產生自由現金流以減少資本的機會，我認為我們已經涵蓋了。來自 Fairtree 的 Jesse Armstrong 的進一步跟進或其他問題。鑑於大量現金餘額，您是否會考慮在本財年回購股票？如果是這樣，您對股票水平和數量的指導是什麼？

And then similarly, also, another request for an update on the destoning project relating to CapEx cost and timeline, perhaps that one for you, Simon. Hanre, if you could start, please?

同樣，還有另一個請求，要求更新與資本支出成本和時間表相關的去石項目，也許這個請求適合你，西蒙。Hanre，可以開始了嗎？

Thanks, Jesse. So just coming back to the previous point I made that of course, firstly, the focus is on the base dividend. So in terms of the dividend policy, once we get to below $4 billion of net debt to pay the base dividend. Any excess cash then on a second order will compete with, as I said, organic, inorganic projects together then with assessment on the likes of share buybacks, special dividends and other metrics. So I certainly can't give any guidance on levels or volumes or how we would look at those trade-offs.

謝謝，傑西。回到上一點，我當然首先強調的是基本股利。因此，就股利政策而言，一旦我們的淨債務低於 40 億美元，就需要支付基本股利。正如我所說，第二個訂單中的任何多餘現金都將與有機、無機項目競爭，然後對股票回購、特別股息和其他指標進行評估。因此，我當然無法就水平或數量或我們如何看待這些權衡提供任何指導。

In terms of destining and CapEx, maybe let me just deal with that as well. It comes back to cost to capital allocation. We do expect to bring that project through to FID in the next 6 to 12 months. So I think to that extent, we will only give guidance on the exact CapEx and timing of that once it is approved.

在目的地和資本支出方面，也許也讓我來處理這個問題。回到資本配置成本。我們確實希望在未來 6 到 12 個月內將該項目提交給 FID。因此，我認為在某種程度上，一旦獲得批准，我們只會就確切的資本支出和時間表提供指導。

Dare I say though that we've made a lot of progress in optimizing the capital spend and derisking that project significantly. So we're confident that project will be assessed. Of course, can't prejudge the outcome of that capital allocation process, but we've got confidence that we've got a very robust project to assess.

我敢說，我們在優化資本支出和顯著降低該專案風險方面取得了很大進展。因此，我們有信心對該項目進行評估。當然，不能預先判斷資本分配過程的結果，但我們有信心我們有一個非常強大的專案需要評估。

Thanks. Simon, perhaps the update on the timing of destoning.

謝謝。西蒙，也許是關於去石時間的最新消息。

I mean we will take FID like I said before the end of the calendar year. And I mean, first -- and what you previously committed, is that before the end of FY 2027, we'll be fully online with destoning. So we still stick to that guidance.

我的意思是，我們將像我在年底前所說的那樣進行最終投資決定。我的意思是，首先，您之前承諾的是，在 2027 財年結束之前，我們將完全在線進行去石工作。所以我們仍然堅持這項指導。

Two questions coming from Gerard Engelbrecht, one on chemicals and the other on mining. So we'll start with the chemicals one. The outlook for the detergent raw materials in the US, if you derecognize the assessed tax losses, what does it mean? Or does it mean that you don't expect taxable profits in the next three to five years in this segment?

傑拉德·恩格爾布雷希特提出兩個問題，一個關於化學品，另一個關於採礦。所以我們將從化學品開始。美國洗滌劑原料的前景，如果終止確認評估的稅收損失，意味著什麼？或者這是否意味著您預計該細分市場在未來三到五年內不會產生應稅利潤？

And I think the second question, Simon, on mining was you spoke about increased own mine coal volumes. Is this outside of the CapEx range of ZAR28 billion to ZAR34 billion also from [Gerard?]. Sorry for the mining question, it was relating to the increase in coal volumes and is this outside of the capital range that we've provided. I think it's first.

西蒙，我認為關於採礦的第二個問題是您談到增加自有煤礦煤炭量。這是否超出了 280 億蘭特至 340 億蘭特的資本支出範圍？[傑拉德？抱歉，關於採礦問題，這與煤炭量的增加有關，這超出了我們提供的資本範圍。我認為這是第一。

Yes, Let's address the mining. I mean, thanks [Harat] I mean you remember at mining, I mean, our own color is if you look at the usage of coal that we use in Secunda, I mean we have an existing purchase with one of our partners at around 4 million tons. Then previously, we produce the balance ourselves. But right now, our volume guidance is between 30% and 32%, and we're working hard to close then the remaining gap.

是的，讓我們來解決採礦問題。我的意思是，謝謝[Harat] 我的意思是你記得在採礦時，我的意思是，我們自己的顏色是如果你看看我們在Secunda 使用的煤炭的使用情況，我的意思是我們與我們的合作夥伴之一現有的購買價格約為 4萬噸。然後之前，我們自己生產天平。但目前，我們的銷售量指引在 30% 到 32% 之間，我們正在努力縮小剩餘的差距。

So all the capital interventions that we need at mining will be within the guidance range of 27% to 32% for our CapEx. So this doesn't talk to additional CapEx required at mining. Then I mean on the feedstock, I mean, Antje, you can -- I mean, just adding on the feedstock, the chemical feedstock for detergent.

因此，我們在挖礦方面所需的所有資本幹預都將在我們的資本支出 27% 至 32% 的指導範圍內。因此，這並不涉及挖礦所需的額外資本支出。然後我的意思是在原料上，我的意思是，Antje，你可以——我的意思是，只需添加原料，洗滌劑的化學原料。

Yes. Thank you, Simon, and thank you, Hart, for the question. So while we expect the recovery of this effectance raw materials over the next couple of years, we don't see that being imminent, and we don't bank on any market recovery at the moment. What we are doing is to set up the business in more self-help. That means we are looking at improving the profitability through our new organizational setup new go-to-market strategy, new innovation pipeline reset and also efficiencies across the entire value chain of our business.

是的。謝謝西蒙，也謝謝哈特提出的問題。因此，雖然我們預期這種效應原料將在未來幾年內復甦，但我們認為這種情況不會很快發生，而且目前我們並不指望任何市場復甦。我們所做的就是讓企業更自助。這意味著我們正在考慮透過新的組織設置、新的上市策略、新的創新管道重置以及整個業務價值鏈的效率來提高獲利能力。

So, yes, I hope that answers your question with regard to the next couple of years in the segment.

所以，是的，我希望這能回答您有關該領域未來幾年的問題。

Perhaps just on the tax losses, then the write-off. It's not the full tax losses, so there is the assessment then of the recoverability of that. I think Note 11 in the financial statements gives a little bit more detail on the tax loss assessment and deferred tax.

也許只是稅收損失，然後沖銷。這不是全部稅收損失，因此需要對其可收回性進行評估。我認為財務報表中的附註11對稅務損失評估和遞延稅提供了更多細節。

Thank you for that. Another question on mining from Jesse at Fairtree on the full potential program. A question regarding the timing and if the process now complete, which mines would it still need to be rolled out to? And with Isibonelo end of life, mine only one year out, is there an update on the extension of that contract with Thungela or a different mine with similar volumes.

謝謝你。Fairtree 的 Jesse 就完整潛力計畫提出了另一個關於採礦的問題。關於時間安排的問題，如果該過程現在完成，還需要推廣到哪些礦場？隨著 Isibonelo 礦山的壽命結束（我的礦山只剩下一年），與 Thungela 或具有類似產量的其他礦山的合約是否有更新更新。

Also, another question in the same theme relating to the logistics. What is the limit to the amount of external coal purchase as possible if it needs to be delivered by road. Perhaps I'll just pause there on that set of mining questions.

另外，同一主題中的另一個問題與物流有關。如果需要透過公路運輸，對外採購煤炭的數量盡可能限制在多少？也許我會在這組採礦問題上暫停一下。

Yes. I'll start, then I'll allow Herrmann to weigh in. I mean we're also pleased to announce that we [between Gala], we've extended, I mean, the supply by six months, and we will continue to act together to explore even extending that further. And suffice to say that we already have, I mean, our own plans to make sure that we can supply the required coal to Secunda, even in the event that (inaudible) contract is not extended. So we sufficiently covered there.

是的。我先開始，然後讓赫爾曼發表意見。我的意思是，我們也很高興地宣布，我們[在 Gala 之間]，我們已經將供應延長了六個月，我們將繼續共同採取行動，探索進一步延長供應的時間。我的意思是，我們已經有了自己的計劃，以確保我們能夠向 Secunda 供應所需的煤炭，即使在（聽不清）合約沒有延長的情況下，我也足以說這一點。所以我們已經充分覆蓋了那裡。

On the full performance, I think, Hermann, you can weigh in, in terms of our full performance, project, the Fulco in terms of where we think we've done in some of the sections, but only a little bit of the section still need require us interventions.

關於完整的性能，我認為，赫爾曼，你可以就我們的完整性能、項目、Fulco 的整體性能進行權衡，我們認為我們在某些​​部分已經完成了一些工作，但只是該部分的一小部分仍然需要我們幹預。

Yes. So food performance has largely been completed specifically for our high production mines or larger collieries. We still have to do some final implementation of the full performance at our Impumelelo colliery, but that's the colliery that have very difficult mining conditions. And we are also just prioritizing safety to ensure that we mine the coal safe. And then finally, we are also still just finalizing the full potential program at the Bosjesspruit colliery.

是的。因此，專門針對我們的高產量礦山或大型煤礦的食品性能已基本完成。我們仍需要在 Impumelelo 煤礦進行一些最終的全面性能實施，但該煤礦的採礦條件非常困難。我們也只是將安全放在首位，以確保我們安全開採煤炭。最後，我們也剛敲定 Bosjesspruit 煤礦的整個潛在計畫。

Thank you very much. Simon, Hermann. Further question from [Rian Roo] on gas. So the question is, would the transition to LNG imply an end to MRG supply.

非常感謝。西蒙、赫爾曼.[Rian Roo] 關於天然氣的進一步問題。所以問題是，向液化天然氣的過渡是否意味著 MRG 供應的結束。

And then one more question on mining post -- from Pallavi Ambekar from Coronation, post the destoning CapEx, what is the expected improvement in coal quality? And can you contextualize it for us versus the quality today.

然後還有一個關於採礦帖子的問題——來自 Coronation 的 Pallavi Ambekar，在去石資本支出之後，煤炭品質的預期改善是什麼？您能否為我們將其與當今的品質進行比較。

Okay. And I'll handle both of them. The first one is on LNG. I mean, check where we are, I mean, today, if you think about the gas supply, we would not -- I mean, there's no additional gas for our customers after 2027. I mean we might slightly extend to 2028 if those projects come online.

好的。我會處理他們兩個。第一個是液化天然氣。我的意思是，檢查一下我們現在的情況，我的意思是，如果你考慮一下天然氣供應，我們不會——我的意思是，2027 年之後我們的客戶不會再獲得額外的天然氣。我的意思是，如果這些項目上線，我們可能會稍微延長到 2028 年。

What we'll do once that gas has declined, all MRG will be used internally. So there will be no MRG supply. So customers have to transition to LNG. And as we previously said, we're working with the customers to help and to make sure that they can balance in the country because you've seen what has previously stated that, I mean, up to 200 jobs are at stake. So it's something that all of us, and we believe Sasol can be part of the solution to make sure there is LNG.

一旦 Gas 下降，我們將做什麼，所有 MRG 將在內部使用。因此不會有 MRG 供應。因此客戶必須轉向液化天然氣。正如我們之前所說，我們正在與客戶合作，以提供幫助並確保他們能夠在該國實現平衡，因為您已經看到了之前所說的，我的意思是，多達200 個工作崗位受到威脅。因此，這是我們所有人的事情，我們相信沙索可以成為確保液化天然氣供應的解決方案的一部分。

Then the next one is on. Yes, on mining Pallavi, our current coal quality today is at around 14%, 14.5%. The required coal quality is what -- yes, the [sinks] quality is 14%, 14.5%, and the required sinks in terms of, I mean, quality in the coal is around 12%, and destoning is aiming to address it and send it back to 12%. And once we are at 12%, we'll then be able to run Secunda at full potential as long as we are below 12% on the [SYNC].

然後下一個就開始了。是的，在開採 Pallavi 時，我們目前的煤炭品質約為 14%、14.5%。所需的煤炭質量是——是的，[沉降]質量是 14%、14.5%，而所需的沉降，我的意思是，煤炭質量約為 12%，去石的目的是解決這個問題，將其恢復至12%。一旦我們達到 12%，只要我們低於 12%，我們就能夠充分發揮 Secunda 的潛力[同步​​]。

Great. Thank you. Question from Andrew Snowden to you, Simon. Simon mentioned that you are looking at to explore new sustainable growth opportunities. Could you please elaborate on this? And what is meant by the statement?

偉大的。謝謝。安德魯·斯諾登向你提出的問題，西蒙。西蒙提到，您正在尋求探索新的永續成長機會。能詳細說明一下嗎？該聲明的含義是什麼？

I'll give you a high-level costs. I mean, my guidance is we'll be busy with the WACC. And I mean we will want to give you a detailed feedback at Capital Markets Day next year, around April, May. However, like I said in my presentation, we see various opportunities like in renewable energy, Sasol could play a bigger role, but we'll explore all of those.

我會給你一個高級的費用。我的意思是，我的指導是我們將忙於 WACC。我的意思是，我們希望在明年四月、五月左右的資本市場日向您提供詳細的回饋。然而，正如我在演講中所說，我們看到了各種機會，例如可再生能源，沙索可以發揮更大的作用，但我們將探索所有這些機會。

And I can assure you that we're going to be very disciplined because for us, it's not transition at all costs. If we see that there's no projects or possible pathways, we'll always maximize the outcome and return cash to the shareholders.

我可以向你們保證，我們將非常自律，因為對我們來說，這不是不惜一切代價的過渡。如果我們發現沒有項目或可能的途徑，我們將始終最大化結果並將現金回饋給股東。

Great. Thank you, Simon. I think one final question we have online from Francois van Wyk from PSG Wealth. Can you please give an update on the Competition Commission appeal? And perhaps we want to defer to Vuyo for this one. Vuyo, are you online? Could you please come in.

偉大的。謝謝你，西蒙。我認為最後一個問題是來自 PSG Wealth 的 Francois van Wyk 在網路上提出的。您能否介紹一下競爭委員會上訴的最新情況？也許我們想聽聽 Vuyo 的意見。烏尤，你在線上嗎？可以請您進來嗎？

Thank you. The question is around whether we would be raising a competition appeal.

謝謝。問題在於我們是否會提出競爭上訴。

Correct. That's right, Vuyo. The status update on the competition appeal process.

正確的。沒錯，烏約。競爭上訴流程的狀態更新。

Okay. I think the key point to emphasize on that is that we have now closed the appeal process in respect of the jurisdiction issue impacting on the tribunal. And so what we're focusing on is getting to prepare ourselves to respond to the allegations around excessive pricing that have been raised by the condition commission in the referral.

好的。我認為要強調的關鍵一點是，我們現在已經結束了影響仲裁庭的管轄權問題的上訴程序。因此，我們關注的是做好準備，回應條件委員會在轉介中提出的有關定價過高的指控。

We do, of course, factor into the preparations for that. The fact that the competition appeal court itself had already indicated that the very fact that NASA informs the price that gets charged is a factor to be considered in any defense in relation to the referral at the tribunal. And so we're preparing now to deal with the referral and await further directions on that.

當然，我們確實考慮了為此的準備工作。事實上，競爭上訴法院本身已經表明，NASA 告知收取的價格這一事實是在與法庭移交相關的任何辯護中需要考慮的一個因素。因此，我們現在正在準備處理轉介並等待進一步的指示。

Thank you very much. I think we have a few last questions streaming in.

非常感謝。我想我們還有最後幾個問題。

A few follow-ups from Sashank Lanka from Bank of America. From the impairments in the Chemical business in the US, it seems it's more likely more in the specialty segment and what has changed there in the last six months? Could some of these impairments be reversed? And I think second question from Sashank would you like to revise some of the 2030 ESG targets in the CMD next year? I'll defer that one to you, Simon.

美國銀行薩尚克·蘭卡的一些後續行動。從美國化學業務的減損來看，似乎更有可能是在特種業務領域，過去六個月發生了什麼變化？其中一些損害可以逆轉嗎？我認為 Sashank 提出的第二個問題，您是否願意在明年修改 CMD 中的一些 2030 年 ESG 目標？我會把這個交給你，西蒙。

Thanks, tiffany. Let me perhaps just discuss the impairment then on the chemical business. I think since the half year review, Sashank, we certainly saw further deterioration in prices. At that point, we expected a reasonably sharp recovery. So it's not only the medium term, but then also the long-term pricing that we have adjusted lower.

謝謝，蒂芙尼。也許讓我討論一下化工業務的減損。Sashank，我認為自半年審查以來，我們確實看到了價格的進一步惡化。那時，我們預計會出現相當急劇的復甦。因此，我們不僅下調了中期定價，還下調了長期定價。

And with the low margins that we've already had in that business, of course, that has a significant impact on the DCF on the carrying value. The further impact has also been the weighted average cost of capital. So at the previous financial year was around 8%, that increased to around 9% and now 9.4%. All the detailed assumptions are in that note that I've referenced earlier. And to your point then, can it be reversed?

當然，由於我們在該業務中已經擁有較低的利潤，這對帳面價值的 DCF 產生了重大影響。進一步的影響也包括加權平均資本成本。上一財年約為 8%，後來增加到 9% 左右，現在為 9.4%。所有詳細的假設都在我之前引用的註釋中。那麼就你的觀點而言，它可以逆轉嗎？

Of course, yes, we are looking to enhance the profitability of that business. Those plans cannot be incorporated yet in an impairment assessment. You have to have implemented the plans and have that approved in your budget. So to the extent that management interventions are not factored in, yes, that, of course, will also see a flowback of value. But then, of course, also, such as the financing cost and the price outlook could also then lead to potential reversal of that impairment.

當然，是的，我們正在尋求提高該業務的獲利能力。這些計劃尚不能納入減損評估。您必須實施這些計劃並在預算中獲得批准。因此，在不考慮管理幹預的情況下，是的，當然也會看到價值回流。但當然，融資成本和價格前景等也可能導致這種減損的潛在逆轉。

On the 2030 target. I think I'm safe to say at the group level, we remain committed to the 2030 target. I mean, as you can see, during the presentation, I elaborated that we continue with renewable energy, energy efficiency, those projects are ongoing. However, what we're busy working on is to make sure that we can enhance and preserve value from our asset operation. And so we'll be tweaking the execution of the entire roadmap and we'll share more details with you at Capital Markets Day.

關於2030年的目標。我想我可以有把握地說，在集團層面，我們仍然致力於實現 2030 年的目標。我的意思是，正如你所看到的，在演講中，我詳細闡述了我們將繼續發展再生能源、能源效率，這些專案正在進行中。然而，我們正忙於確保我們能夠提高和保存資產營運的價值。因此，我們將調整整個路線圖的執行，並將在資本市場日與您分享更多細節。

Thank you, Simon. I think the final question comes from Gerard, more broadly on the business. In a world of lower chemical prices for longer, gas drying up, and production potentially lower at Secunda, do you think a ZAR3 billion to ZAR4 billion long-term debt target is sufficient or suitable?

謝謝你，西蒙。我認為最後一個問題來自傑拉德，更廣泛地涉及業務。在化學品價格持續走低、天然氣枯竭以及 Secunda 產量可能下降的情況下，您認為 30 億至 40 億南非蘭特的長期債務目標是否足夠或合適？

Thanks, Harold. I think a very apt question. Certainly, we look at net debt from an absolute level as well as a gearing ratio level. So to the extent that the 1.5 time net debt to EBITDA and the ZAR4 billion is the trigger for a dividend payment. We do see that as the upper end of a risk tolerance level. In terms of target level, we've always said previously that we do look to get lower gearing and especially given the longer-term outlook, those gearing targets will be lower. We'll give an update of the target gearing longer term at the Capital Markets Day as well. coming next year.

謝謝，哈羅德。我認為這是一個非常恰當的問題。當然，我們從絕對水準和資產負債率水準來看淨債務。因此，1.5 倍的 EBITDA 淨債務和 40 億南非蘭特是股息支付的觸發因素。我們確實認為這是風險承受程度的上限。就目標水準而言，我們先前一直表示，我們確實希望降低負債比率，特別是考慮到長期前景，這些負債比率目標將會更低。我們也將在資本市場日更新長期目標負債比率。明年來。

Thank you, Hanre. Simon. A final question from Jesse Armstrong from Fairtree. On the Synfuels product mix. There was a swing of 48% refined products at Synfuels from 47%. Is this a function of coal quality or was this something else intentional? And what is your expectation going forward of the, I think, the fuels to chemical ratio is the one in question, yes?

謝謝你，漢雷。西蒙.Fairtree 的傑西阿姆斯壯提出最後一個問題。關於 Synfuels 產品組合。Synfuels 的精煉產品比例從 47% 波動到了 48%。這是煤炭品質的函數還是其他有意為之的因素？我認為，您對未來的期望是什麼，燃料與化學品的比例是有問題的，對嗎？

Our stable fuel to chemicals ratio is always, I mean, a 60-40 split. And that's usually set not by the coal quality, but set by the catalyst that we use and the catalyst is constant and fixed. So usually, there's no change there.

我的意思是，我們穩定的燃料與化學品的比例始終是 60-40。這通常不是由煤炭品質決定的，而是由我們使用的催化劑決定的，催化劑是恆定且固定的。所以通常情況下，那裡沒有變化。

When you start seeing the ratio changing as well, we're experiencing logistic challenges, and we start sloping the chemicals back into the fuel and then we produce more fuel. So that's what we're dealing with. However, I mean, I must comment Transnet that we're seeing massive improvements in that. So as soon as we stop sloping, that ratio will be restored.

當你開始看到比率也改變時，我們正在經歷物流挑戰，我們開始將化學品重新投入燃料中，然後我們生產更多的燃料。這就是我們正在處理的事情。然而，我的意思是，我必須評論 Transnet，我們看到了這方面的巨大改進。因此，一旦我們停止傾斜，該比率就會恢復。

Great. Thank you. I think that wraps up the session for today. Thank you for your participation online and via Chorus Call. Thank you to Simon, Hanre, and the executive management team, for your participation. With that, we wish you a safe and wonderful day. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。我想今天的會議就到此結束了。感謝您在線上和透過 Chorus Call 參與。感謝 Simon、Hanre 和執行管理團隊的參與。在此，我們祝福您有個安全美好的一天。謝謝。