Simpson Manufacturing Co Inc (SSD) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings. Welcome to the Simpson Manufacturing Company fourth-quarter 2023 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) I will now turn the conference over to your host, Kim Orlando, of ADDO Investor Relations. You may begin.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Simpson Manufacturing Company's fourth-quarter and full-year 2023 earnings conference call. Any statements made on this call that are not statements of historical facts are forward-looking statements. Such statements are based on certain estimates and expectations that are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties.

Actual future results may vary materially from those expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements. We encourage you to read the risks described in the company's public filings and reports, which are available on the SEC's or the company's corporate website. Except to the extent required by applicable securities laws, we undertake no obligation to update or publicly revise any of the forward-looking statements that we make here today, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise.

Please note that the company's earnings press release was issued today at approximately 4:15 PM Eastern Time. The earnings press release is available on the Investor Relations page of the company's website at ir.simpsonmfg.com. Today's call is being webcast, and a replay will also be available on the Investor Relations page of the company's website.

Now, I would like to turn the conference over to Mike Olosky, Simpson's President and Chief Executive Officer.

Thanks, Kim. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining today's call. With me today is Brian Magstadt, our Chief Financial Officer. My remarks today will provide an overview of our 2023 financial performance, an update on our end markets, and our capital allocation priorities. Brian will then talk you through our fourth quarter financials and fiscal 2024 outlook in greater detail.

I'd like to begin by thanking the entire Simpson team for their strong execution in 2023 and relentless customer focus. The market improved in the second half, but it was a challenging year with lower housing starts. Together, we achieved above market growth and high profitability with $2.2 billion in annual net sales, a 21.5% operating income margin, and a record $8.26 of earnings per diluted share.

Our top line performance was driven by continued share gains across all of our end markets and product lines. Our operating income margin came in below our October guidance, primarily due to additional costs incurred to pursue our growth opportunities in the areas of new products and market penetration. This has contributed to a record number of product launches in 2023 with an expected stronger impact in 2024.

Importantly, our 2023 North American net sales were up 0.9% from last year to a total of $1.7 billion on a 1% improvement in volumes, outperforming the broader market, which saw an annual US housing starts decline by approximately 9%. Our outperformance is driven by a high single-digit volume increases on our component manufacturing and commercial end markets and modest increases in national retail and OEM, which is partly offset by a minor reduction in our residential market.

We are proud of this year's revenue outperformance, and we will continue to invest in and improve all elements of our business in 2024 to ensure that we lay the foundation for continued outperformance over the longer term. Our 2023 US housing starts finished below 2022 levels, we still believe there's still an attractive market given the estimated shortage of approximately 2 million homes in the US, following more than a decade of underbuilding, coupled with modestly improved outlook for 2024.

The fourth quarter net sales totaled $501.7 million, reflecting an increase of 5.5% over Q4 2022. North American volumes for Q4 were up approximately 10% year over year, contributing to a growth in net sales of 5.3% to $387.8 million. To further break down our North American performance, we achieved double-digit volume improvements year over year in our residential, commercial, and component manufacturer markets, as we've continued to benefit from various new customer wins, further underscoring our ambitions to be the innovation leader and partner of choice in the markets we serve.

In the OEM market, our volumes improved in the low single-digit range compared to last year, while national retail was down only slightly. Turning to Europe, we generated annual net sales of $480.8 million, reflecting an increase of 20.1% or 15.8% on a local currency basis over 2022. As a reminder, our 2022 net sales included nine months of revenue from ETANCO compared to a full 12 months in 2023. Despite a very challenging European market, ETANCO sales were in line with 2022 levels based on annualized data for the prior year period.

While the remainder of our European business was down due to tougher economic headwinds and lower construction activity, our European gross margin has continued to improve versus historical levels, driven primarily by value-added pricing with effective cost management. Our solutions selling approach, combined with our high service levels in Europe, gives us confidence Simpson will benefit from broader secular trends, including the growing use of wood construction and increasingly stringent environmental regulations to drive new applications coupled with the ongoing housing shortage.

On a consolidated basis, our full-year gross margin improved to 47.1% from 44.5% last year, reflecting lower raw material costs and productivity improvements, partly offset by higher fixed costs in our factory, tooling, and warehouses. The higher gross margins have enabled us to further invest in our business and provide even better customer support. Brian will further elaborate on our key drivers of our margin performance in Q4 shortly.

I'll now turn to an update on our new business wins within our five end-use markets. These customer wins are result of our high service levels, increasingly diverse portfolio of products and software, as well as our commitment to innovation and developing complete solutions for the markets we serve.

Beginning with the residential market, we are in the process of converting a 20-plus location lumberyard chain in the northwest to Simpson connectors. In addition, our previously discussed path-to-market shift away from two-step distribution has led to incremental sales by going direct to our distribution partners. Going direct to our distribution partners enables us to sell our complete product line and provide additional services.

In the multifamily space, we also recently expanded our product offering to appeal to a broader range of projects, which we anticipate will drive further share gains, given our industry-leading product availability and delivery standards. In commercial market, our strong relationships, field support, and dedication educating engineers, distributors and contractors about our solutions continues to earn specifications on commercial projects and generate demand in the field.

Some recent examples include Simpson product specifications on a larger retrofit project on the West Coast, a public safety building in the northeast, and an institutional project in the south. In the OEM market, we continue to identify new and unique opportunities to offer a broad range of solutions, including truss plates, fasteners, connectors, and our new EasyFrame saws to new customers producing sheds, modular homes, windows, and grain storage containers.

Also in the OEM space, we continue to participate in more mass timber construction projects, one example of which was a library renovation project in the northwest. Within the national retail space, we tested new products and markets as well as enhanced our merchandising efforts and education of our customer sales staff, which contributed to year-over-year performance improvements for our home center customers in 2023.

In Q4, we identified new outdoor accent opportunities and also participated in three home center roadshow events secured at Pros, which provided the opportunity to building strong relationships, demo products, and enhance our regional presence. And finally, in the component manufacturer market, formally known as building technology, we continue to increase our market share from truss component manufacturers by onboarding multiple medium-sized customers.

In addition, we had strong interest in our EasyFrame saws, which leverage our technology solutions, enabling our customers to produce structures more efficiently by automating their pre-cut lumber process with detailed printing construction. The culmination of these wins as a result of our strong business model, high brand recognition, and trusted reputation built over nearly 68 years, which drives share gains in our differentiated position in the market.

Additionally, our commitment to continuous improvement has fostered our core company ambitions, which we are continuing to pursue, including strengthening our values-based culture, being the partner of choice, being an innovation leader in the markets we operate, above market growth relative to US housing starts, and operating income margin within the top quartile of our proxy peers, and integrating ETANCO and returning our ROIC to be within the top quartile of our proxy peers.

Next, I'll turn to a discussion on our capital allocation priorities. Our strategy remains duly focused on both growth opportunities and stockholder returns. In 2023, we generated strong cash from operations of $429.9 million, which finance $88.8 million in capital expenditures, $25.5 million in acquisitions and asset purchases, $50 million of share repurchases, and $45.2 million of quarterly cash dividends. We also paid down $98.7 million in debt we incurred to finance the acquisition of ETANCO.

Our relentless customer focus in providing world-class service is why we are making investments in our facilities to expand our operations in our manufacturing capacity, enabling us to achieve even greater supply chain inefficiencies. As noted previously, we will concurrently evaluate and pursue M&A opportunities that accelerate progress on our key growth initiatives and help us operate more efficiently.

We believe our recent and future strategic investments will help us accelerate a compounded annual growth rate of sales volumes above market over the mid to long term. Our ambitions for this accelerated growth include us exceeding our historical average performance in North America for approximately 250 basis points above US housing starts market while also achieving a top quartile profitability.

In summary, I am very pleased with our 2023 outperformance in an ongoing challenging market. We continue to see demand variability on a month-to-month level and believe the market for the first half of this year will be more challenging than the market for the second half of the year. Our latest view on the market for 2024 has improved to the low single-digit growth, up from the prior market outlook.

Balance we have with our different end markets helps us ensure we are in a strong position to continue to outperform with deeper expansion into new end application. Underscoring our execution is our strong balance sheet and liquidity position that helps secure our growth strategy and long standing history of stockholder returns. We look forward to furthering our mission in 2024 to provide solutions that help people design and build safer, stronger structures, to improve the resiliency of structures and communities around the world.

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Brian, who will discuss our fourth-quarter financial results in greater detail.

Thanks, Mike, and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today to discuss our fourth-quarter financial results. Before I begin, I'd like to mention that unless otherwise stated, all financial measures discussed in my prepared remarks refer to the fourth quarter of 2023, and all comparisons will be year over year comparisons versus the fourth quarter of 2022.

Now beginning with our fourth-quarter results. As Mike highlighted, our consolidated net sales increased 5.5% to $501.7 million. Within the North America segment, net sales increased 5.3% to $387.8 million, primarily due to higher sales volumes across all major product lines, which were partially offset by price decreases implemented during the first quarter of 2023.

In North America, wood product volume was up 10.2% and concrete product volume was up 7.5%. In Europe, net sales increased 5.8% to $109.7 million, primarily due to the positive effect of $5.1 million in foreign currency translation. Consolidated gross profit increased 9.9% to $220.5 million resulting in a gross margin of 43.9% compared to 42.2% on a segment basis.

On a segment basis, our gross margin in North America increased to 47% compared to 45%, primarily due to lower raw material and labor costs as a percentage of net sales, which were partially offset by higher factory and tooling, warehouse, and shipping costs. Gross margin in Europe increased to 34.2%, 32.7%, also primarily due to lower raw material costs as a percentage of net sales.

You may also recall our raw material costs in the prior year period included a $1.4 million inventory fair value adjustment for the acquisition of ETANCO representing 1.4 percentage points of Europe gross margin. From a product perspective, our fourth-quarter gross margin on wood products was 44.1% compared to 41.9% and was 42.8% for concrete products compared to 42.3%.

Now turning to our fourth-quarter costs and operating expenses. Total operating expenses were $148.5 million, an increase of $29.1 million or approximately 24.4%, primarily due to increased personnel costs to drive our growth, our professional fees, as well as greater variable compensation.

Many of these costs or investments to engineer and deliver new products, increased services to fuel takeoff and designs, and continued development of digital solutions, which enable our customers and specifiers to select Simpson products. As a percentage of net sales, total operating expenses were 29.6% compared to 25.1%.

Further detail, our SG&A investments, our fourth quarter research and development and engineering expenses increased 36.1% to $25.1 million, including higher personnel costs and software development initiatives to support our end markets and to further those strategic growth initiatives. Selling expenses increased 16.8% to $52.5 million, primarily due to increased commissions on higher sales and increases to the team supporting sales in North America. On a segment basis, selling expenses in North America were up 19.9%, and in Europe, they were up 9.8%.

General and administrative expenses increased 26.6% to $70.8 million, primarily due to personnel costs, professional fees, and software licensing. As a result, our consolidated income from operations totaled $71.6 million to decline of 9.1% from $78.7 million. Our consolidated operating income margin was 14.3%, a decrease of 2.3 percentage points from 16.6%.

However, for the full year of 2023, our consolidated income from operations increased 3.5% to $475.1 million from $459.1 million, reflecting only a modest decline in operating income margin to 21.5% compared to 21.7%. As Mike noted, while this was below our recently announced expectations, we were very pleased with our financial performance in a difficult operate environment as we further testament to our strong business model that enables us to perform throughout market cycles.

In North America, income from operations decreased 6.8% to $79.8 million, primarily due to increased personnel costs, professional fees, and variable compensation, which was partly offset by higher gross profit.

In Europe, income from operations was $3.1 million compared to $0.8 million due to higher gross profit, partly related to the prior year's $1.4 million inventory fair value adjustment as well as lower year-over-year acquisition and integration costs. Effective tax rate was 26.3%, consistent with the prior year period. Accordingly, net income totaled $54.8 million, or $1.28 per fully diluted share, compared to $57.6 million, or $1.35 per fully diluted share.

Turning to our balance sheet and cash flow. Our balance sheet remained healthy with cash and cash equivalents totaling $427.8 million at December 31, 2023, down $143.2 million from our balance at September 30, 2023 due to changes in working capital, stock purchases, and debt repayment on our revolver, and up $127.1 million from our balance at December 31, 2022. Our debt balance was approximately $481.3 million, net of capitalized finance costs and our net debt position was $53.5 million. We have $375 million remaining available for borrowing on our primary line of credit.

Our inventory position as of December 31, 2023 was $551.8 million, which was up $47.1 million compared to our balance as of September 30, 2023, due to increased pounds on hand in order to support expected increased sales volumes in 2024. Effective management of the on-hand inventory remains a key element of our business model as we strive to ensure on-time delivery standards and superior customer service levels that drive our competitive advantage.

During the fourth quarter, we generated cash flow from operations of $31.7 million compared to $136.4 million. We invested $31.3 million for capital expenditures and paid $11.5 million in dividends to our stockholders. We repurchased about 361,000 shares of common stock for approximately $50 million during the quarter under our $100 million authorization, which expired at year end.

On October 19, our Board of Directors authorized up to $100 million for the repurchase of our common stock effective January 1 through year end 2024. We continue to evaluate opportunistic share repurchases as part of our capital allocation strategy. Additionally, on January 19, our Board declared a quarterly cash dividend of $0.27 per share which will be payable on April 25 to stockholders of record on April 4.

Now turning to our 2024 financial outlook. Based on business trends and conditions, As of today, February 5, we are initiating guidance for the full year ending December 31, 2024 as follows: we expect our operating margin to be in the range of 20% to 21.5%; key assumptions include expected moderate growth above the housing market, a slightly lower overall gross margin based on the addition of new warehouses, and modest increases in labor and factory and tooling as a percentage of net sales; operating expenses at a level we believe are necessary to position the company to make continued meaningful share gains in our markets and growth initiatives; and $45 million in expected total integrational cost associated with ETANCO as well as other synergies in Europe.

Interest expense on the revolving credit facility and term loans, which had borrowings of $75 million and $410.6 million as of December 31, 2023, respectively, is expected to be approximately $8.4 million, including the benefit from interest rate and cross currency swaps, mitigating substantially all of the volatility from changes in interest rates. Our effective tax rate is estimated to continue to be in the range of 25% to 26%, including both federal and state income tax rates based on current tax laws.

And finally, capital expenditures are estimated to be approximately $200 million, which includes $120 million for the expansion of the Columbus, Ohio facility and the construction of the new fastener facility in Gallatin, Tennessee.

In summary, we were very pleased with our financial and operational performance in 2023, where we grew revenues above market growth rates. We remain focused on providing our customers excellent service, innovation, and value by expanding our broad solution set throughout our five key end use markets. Our strong balance sheet and cash flow enable us to make investments to support our organic growth initiatives.

Thanks again to our team at Simpson for the strong performance and to all of our stakeholders for your support of the company.

With that, I will now turn the call over to the operator to begin the Q&A session.

(Operator Instructions) Daniel Moore, CJS Securities.

Thank you. Good afternoon, Mike. Good afternoon, Brian. Thanks for taking my questions.

Good afternoon.

Hi, Dan.

I want to start with -- I appreciate the color as it relates to the outlook for '24, you mentioned H1, maybe starting out a little tougher than H2 from an overall housing market perspective. Given your goal is to continue to generate positive growth above market, do you see flat to positive overall growth in your business and the first half of the year is being achievable? Or do you see maybe the cadence in H1 being a little bit tougher now?

Yeah. That's a good question, Dan. So what we're hearing from our customers is a first half, again, flattish to maybe down a little bit, second half up a little bit. So add it all up may be low single-digit growth. And then we do definitely hear different stories from our different customers, are larger builders on tend to be in a higher end of that ad our smaller customers tend to be a little bit on the lower end of that. That's what we're hearing from a market perspective.

And from a company perspective, we're expecting to grow above the market from an annual perspective. We noted in the release that on average, over the last number of years, we've been outperforming the housing market by about 250 basis points, and we would expect that to be higher than that.

Perfect. Very helpful. And looking at the markets you've targeted to increase penetration, commercial, national, retail, building, tech, among others. And I know you gave good examples. Where do you see the biggest opportunities for further penetration and kind of moving the needle on growth this coming year?

Dan, similar to last year, really, we had good -- let me comment a little bit on last year because I think it carries over into this year. We've had good, solid growth across all market segments and across all of our major product lines. And you know our business model really well. We've got a 10,000-plus SKUs, 10,000-plus customers. So it's lots and lots of small to medium-sized applications to move the needle.

I mean, there aren't really huge opportunities are going to shift things one way or another. And as we look into 2024, we're very happy with the playbooks we have by market segment, very happy with the playbooks we have by product segment, and so we continue to see really strong growth across all of our markets and our product lines.

And one more a little bit of review. Just looking at the SG&A in the quarter, what was the difference in variable incentive comp kind of year over year? Obviously, given the strength in revenue that you saw, it was up considerably you pointed that out. And then what are your expectations for SG&A growth embedded in your 2024 guide? Thank you again.

Hey, Dan. Let me make a general statement on SG&A as it relates to our financials. So again, we run a very, very specialized and to really drive that business model with all those customers and products I mentioned, we need people. And it's not easy to find the very specialized people. We need to run our factories, to find the salespeople that know our markets, know our end products to fit our profile. It's not easy to find the engineers that can develop these innovative products that we're working on nor is it easy to find the software engineers that we need to develop new applications.

And Dan, the bar is high for our team. We want obviously the best people, super specialized. And when we find them, we tend to hire them. We do everything we can to train them up and we want to make sure we retain them.

So -- but on the cost side, I mean, we are also -- converse of that, we're also very much committed to above market growth with top quartile profitability and operating income in ROIC versus our proxy peer group. So when we look at the last couple of years, we started forecasting better gross margins.

We knew that would enable us to overinvest in the business in some areas that would, one, help them providing better support to our customers while still hitting our financial targets and at the same time, planting seeds to accelerate future market growth. And we've been there doing this now for three years.

And as Brian said, the last eight years or so, we've grown about 250 basis points above the market. But the last three years, we've been able to overinvest in the business and provide that great support for our customers. We've grown about 800 basis points above the market.

And so when we look at that, we think that also that business model helps us keep that 600 basis points of operating margin improvement we've realized versus the pre-COVID years. And again, we think there's a housing shortage as the market picks up, Dan, we'll have the people in place that can really help us take advantage of that rebounding market to accelerate the business even more.

And Dan, to get into a little bit of the specifics on some of the SG&A or rather, operating expenses. So from an equity compensation perspective, we've got a multi-year performance periods. And a year ago, we were looking at 2023 to be more negative than it ultimately turned out to be. And the expense associated with multi-year equity or grants reflected the lower expectations of 2023 and then a little bit forward there.

Fast forward a year, we're seeing a much more robust market in Simpson's performance relative to that. And as we look at, again, those forward years in an equity award, we have to take that expense in the period. So just in the fourth quarter, equity comp compared to fourth quarter '22 was over $4 million different.

Now digging in a little bit to the specifics that you set around trajectory on SG&A, we would expect it to be pretty in line with volume growth this year. One of the things that we really look to drive our business decisions are how much we're making those investments, as Mike noted, relative to our forecasts and projections.

And today, we would expect SG&A dollar growth to be pretty close to be in line with our revenue growth, our volume growth, but that's something that we pay a lot of attention to. And if we see things slowing down, we don't want to do the things that impact us over that medium to long term. As Mike noted, we do see that fundamental shortage in housing, but we also want to make sure we're not taking our eye off the ball from an SG&A perspective.

So we spend a lot of time updating our forecast and our internal plans. And as Mike noted, when we started to see a little bit more volume, a little bit more gross margin, we took that as an opportunity to invest in 2023 because we think that's ultimately going to be one of the things that helps us win in those areas that were that we are operating in, again, our ambition to grow above market and to grow above our longer-term average currently. Were there any other items in your question that I missed?

No, you covered it. That's very helpful. Appreciate it again. I will take any further offline.

Thanks, Dan.

Thanks, Dan.

Tim Wojs, Baird.

Hey, guys. Good afternoon.

Hey, Tim.

Maybe just to on maybe just start off on gross margins. I guess, how would you frame the price cost expectations that you've included in the guidance? And I guess is any of the modest compression that you're seeing there is just driven by the new capacity and some higher, I guess, labor and distribution costs?

Hey, Tim. This is Brian. So it would be just a modest, small pullback in gross margin for '24 relative to '23 for those items that you mentioned, additional warehousing costs, additional labor costs, factory and tooling costs, one of the things that is -- part of our overall manufacturing operation is as we bring new equipment online, we'll take a fair amount of depreciation expense in the year that comes online. And when it come online in the fourth quarter, it's a little bit more of an impact.

But -- and as we look at the major elements of our cost of sales, I'd say raw materials are relatively flat as a percent of revenue. The other drivers are going to be the labor and the factory and tooling and some warehousing costs.

Okay. Okay. That's helpful. And then just on the investments, I mean, would you characterize some of the higher SG&A spend in Q4 as type of an acceleration of some of the investments? And what was it anything specific or is it just generally you thought it was an advantageous time to pull some of that debt into '23?

Well, as we look at a lot of the investments we're planning for, in particular, we've got some investments we've made in the technology space to be able to help us win business. One of the big contributors for us not what we spent in Q4, but in general, technology helped us win a top 10 component manufacturer in 2023.

And it's those types of investments that we're looking at that has helped and paved the way for future market share wins in gains. When we look at product development, we've noted record number of products that were launched, and we need to keep that in 2023. We need to keep that trajectory in order for us to hit our ambition of continuing to achieve that above market growth.

We also had some customer conversions and sometimes we've got to buy back competitive product to get our product in there because we want our product in on the shelves as soon as possible. So there's a number of areas that would contribute to that. And we want to get to these customer end-market wins as soon as we can.

And if that means getting software development done quicker or sooner, getting some of these products launched in the activities associated with those done sooner, we want to do that. We want to make sure we're positioning our teams to be able to go after and win in those key end markets.

Okay. Okay. All right. That makes a lot of sense. And then just the last one on revenue growth. I just want to make sure I understand it. So if the expectation now is for low single-digit growth in the consolidated North American end market, and you've outgrown that by 250 basis points, are you saying that you should at least grow revenue in North America by mid-single digits? Is that kind of what you would tell us?

Yes, yes. Market assumption, low single digits. And we want to continue to be at least 250 basis points above the market.

Okay. Okay. Very good. Awesome. Thanks for the color, guys. Good luck on '24.

Thank you.

Kurt Yinger, D.A. Davidson.

Great. Thanks and good afternoon, Mike and Brian.

Hello, Kurt.

I mean, it sounds like warehouse, the new warehouses and distribution hubs that you guys both and will be a little bit of gross margin drag in 2024. But I guess longer term, how do you think about the opportunities from some of those investments on the gross margin line?

And as you look across your North American footprint, I mean, are there more opportunities for you to take some of that business in-house? And is that something that's going to drive, I guess, increased capital spending levels going forward? Or how are you thinking about that occurred?

Good question, Kurt. So a real tangible example, Kurt, as you know, we're moving away from two-step distribution across the board and moving that needle in the west as kind of the last part of that process. And now, as we start to go to our end-channel partners or distributors, we can have interaction with them, we can explain the whole product line. We can now tell them everything we're doing to drive specs. We can tell everything we're doing with builders to pull things through.

And by having now access to a couple of these distribution customers, we've been able to make some really nice gains. And one in particular, there was a customer, I think it was mid-single digit number of stores. They actually didn't carry any of our product line. We went in and we started telling them everything we can do to help them and help their own customers.

Not only did we pick up the connector business, Kurt, we also picked up the fastener and the anchor business. And that's exactly why we want to go direct, and to be able to service and support that, we need the warehouses close to our customers to provide that fantastic service level. Ideally, we want to be within one day shipping of all of our end customers. And right now we're pretty close to that, but not exactly there.

As we shift away from the two-step distribution, we need to those sites provide that customer service. We've got a couple more that we think we can do to provide good support. That also enables us to provide some same-day support, via local windows and a couple of other things.

So we continue to do that, that we think that helps us pick up share and then the margin, obviously, that we have with our two-steppers, that part goes away. Some of that we can get on the top line and some of that, we saved, or we invest because we need to provide the service to be able to support that.

Got it. Okay. So it's more of a customer service, hopefully, some share gains, and then an opportunity to maybe reinvest any sort of margin uplift associated with that. So it's not a huge gross margin drive but over time, it's more of a competitive positioning strategy. Is that the right way to think about it?

Yes. Yes. Help us better serve and support our customers and help us drive more growth.

Got it. Okay. Makes sense. And then in terms of new residential construction and it's kind of a tale of two markets between single-family and multi-family. So maybe just remind us content per single-family versus multi-family unit and on average and how you think about the growth on the single-family side perhaps being dampened or offset by weakness in multi-family or whether the backlog of units under construction you think can carry you through 2024. How do you think about that dynamic?

Yeah. So on average across the US curve, we think our content on multi-family is similar to the average content in single-family, on average. Obviously in the West Coast and in the hurricane areas, there's more content per house less maybe in the Midwest. But if you look at multi-family, since they tend to be multi-story, they tend to have garages below them, there's more engineering.

So there's more hardware in general on those kind of balancing out where we typically see extremes in multi-family. I mean, a single-family on the West Coast, Southeast versus Midwest. But summary of that, that is relatively consistent content-wise.

Now from a multi-family perspective, depending upon how the different markets talk about it, it's roughly 30% of sales of total single-family sales.

Sorry. Total starts.

Total starts.

For family, right. (multiple speakers)

If you look at the multifamily segment, we think about one-third of that is predominantly wood construction where we would have that apples-to apples-comparison. The other two-thirds could these steel or concrete construction or maybe our applicators on those wouldn't be nearly as high as they would on the wood construction perspective.

So long story short, the mix between single-family and multi-family, we don't expect to be a huge driver one way or another over the last couple of years. We've kind of seen that balance up and I think we'll see that again this year.

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then just lastly, I guess not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but spending related to Columbus and Gallatin, $120 million next year, how much kind of carryover into 2025 do you think would be associated with those projects specifically?

Shouldn't be too much. So we should -- we're expecting to complete Columbus in 2024. Have that opened up if not the end of this year, then early next year. Then Gallatin, we are breaking ground now. I would expect at $50 million spent this year, then balance of that spent next year.

And that's actually something to note. So when we talked about the $200 million in total CapEx, that is basically the total for Gallatin, some of which will be spent this year as noted and then carried over into next year.

Got it. Okay. And then I guess just lastly on ETANCO, any sort of metrics, whether that's kind of backlog or visibility you guys have just in terms of the near term outlook for growth for that business and I guess how you're thinking about 2024 as a whole?

So, Kurt, I was just over there a couple of weeks ago and similar to our business in the US, they're not getting long range forecast from their customers. So it tends to be they work on projects, they get an order, and they tried to ship it out within the next day or two. So we don't have a great view into the backlog. Overall, French business, we continue to believe that that particular segment's doing okay.

As we said in our prepared remarks, the business was flattish with the prior year in the negative markets. We're pretty pleased with that. We're pleased with the gross margins over there. We continue to think it's a good business model. And again, the more and more energy regulations come into place that require people to increase the thermal efficiency of residential and commercial buildings, the more we think that business is going to grow for us.

And that particular segment, the ETANCO business, was up about 10%, 15% over prior year, the facade business. So again, that's not great visibility from a backlog perspective because that's just the way it operates. But again, we're pretty happy with that business model going forward.

Got it. Okay. That's very helpful. Appreciate the color, guys, and good luck here in Q1.

Thank you, Kurt.

Thank you. And we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. We also -- this also concludes today's conference in which you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.