SunPower Inc (SPWR) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. My name is Sioban Hickie. I'm VP of IR, and I would like to welcome everyone to SunPower's Fourth Quarter earnings call. I will take a few -- I will review a few housekeeping items before turning the call over to our CEO, Dr. T.J. Rodgers.

早安.我的名字是西奧班·希基。我是投資人關係副總裁，我謹代表SunPower歡迎各位參加第四季財報電話會議。我將稍作休息——在將電話轉交給我們的執行長 T.J. Rodgers 博士之前，我將回顧一些事務性事項。

This call is being recorded, and a replay will be available within the Events Section of SunPower's Investor Relations website. Please note that today's presentation may contain projections and other forward-looking statements. These statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ from those expressed or implied in our statements.

本次電話會議正在錄音，錄音回放將在SunPower投資者關係網站的「活動」版塊提供。請注意，今天的簡報可能包含預測和其他前瞻性陳述。這些聲明受到已知和未知風險及不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與聲明中明示或暗示的結果有所不同。

Also on today's call, we may discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of any differences between those non-GAAP financial measures and the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures are available within our press release.

在今天的電話會議上，我們可能也會討論一些非GAAP財務指標。本新聞稿中提供了這些非GAAP財務指標與最直接可比較的GAAP財務指標之間任何差異的調節表。

Lastly, we will hold a question-and-answer session after the end of formal remarks today. (Event Instructions) I will now turn the call over to Dr. T.J. Rodgers, SunPower's Chairman and CEO.

最後，在今天的正式演講結束後，我們將舉行問答環節。（活動說明）現在我將把電話交給 SunPower 董事長兼執行長 T.J. Rodgers 博士。

Morning. We have some guests here today. First, we have John Berger, I'm going to introduce later. And we have two directors of SunPower, Dan McCranie and Will Anderson, both of whom I have slides to introduce. So let me get right into it.

早晨。今天我們這裡有幾位客人。首先，我們有約翰·伯格，我稍後會介紹他。我們還有 SunPower 的兩位董事，Dan McCranie 和 Will Anderson，我將用幻燈片向大家介紹他們。那麼，我就直接進入正題了。

Our logo is the Helios airplane. It had 35,000 watts of SunPower solar cells on it back when it flew under its own power, takeoff 92,000 feet, an unbroken record. I'll relate to one more aspect of this airplane today, you notice this reflection here.

我們的標誌是太陽神赫利俄斯飛機。它搭載了 35,000 瓦的 SunPower 太陽能電池，當時它依靠自身動力飛行，起飛高度為 92,000 英尺，創造了一項至今無人打破的紀錄。今天我再談談這架飛機的另一個方面，你們注意到這裡的倒影了嗎？

That reflection means that the bottom side of this wing is clear plastic. So this wing, if you looked at it, you can look right through it and you see the struts and clear plastic on one side and solar panels on the other side, meaning all the light coming from down here can come in the bottom of the wing and add power. And that's what's called bifacial that is the cells accept energy from either side. I'll talk about that later.

從這個反射可以看出，這片機翼的底部是透明塑膠。所以，如果你仔細觀察這個機翼，你會發現它完全可以穿透，你會看到一側的支柱和透明塑料，另一側的太陽能電池板，這意味著從這裡照射過來的所有光線都可以進入機翼底部並增加電力。這就是所謂的雙面細胞，即細胞可以從兩側吸收能量。我稍後會談到這個問題。

Dan McCranie, I introduced to you a very short introduction. He's been on 10 NASDAQ boards. That's what he did. Like after he left Cypress Semiconductor, who ran VP of Marketing and Sales. And he was the Chairman of both halves of Motorola when they split up into Freescale and on, and he was on the Cypress Board as well.

丹‧麥克雷尼，我為你做了一個非常簡短的介紹。他曾擔任 10 家納斯達克上市公司的董事。他就是這麼做的。就像他離開 Cypress Semiconductor 之後，擔任行銷和銷售副總裁一樣。當摩托羅拉分拆成飛思卡爾等公司時，他曾擔任摩托羅拉兩家公司的董事長，他也曾是賽普拉斯公司的董事會成員。

He's also run [SST] Technology, which is the -- was the spin-out of Intel in nonvolatile memories.

他還經營過 [SST] Technology，該公司是英特爾在非揮發性記憶體領域的衍生公司。

Will Anderson is on the far side. He's MIT, Stanford MBA credential guy. He's been on the SunPower Board since 2010, and he was actually the Founder and CEO of Complete Solar, the company which acquired SunPower in the SunPower name. Now he's on our Board. And he's a glutton for punishment.

威爾·安德森在另一邊。他是擁有麻省理工學院和史丹佛大學MBA學位的人。他自 2010 年起擔任 SunPower 董事會成員，實際上他曾是 Complete Solar 的創始人兼首席執行官，該公司後來以 SunPower 的名義收購了 SunPower。現在他加入了我們的董事會。他簡直是自討苦吃。

He's got another start-up called same-day solar, and he's learning how to do financing. So if that works out, that may be a way for us to get into that business, which we're not in right now.

他還有一家名為「當日太陽能」的新創公司，目前正在學習如何進行融資。所以如果可行的話，這或許是我們進入這個行業的一種途徑，而我們目前還沒有涉足這個行業。

Okay. I showed you this slide before, and I'm showing you again because I think it's cool. This is a picture of the Helios flying at 80,000 feet. Curve of the earth clearly above the atmosphere unbridled sun coming right in. Of course, that means more energy.

好的。我之前給你們看過這張投影片，現在再給你們看一遍，因為我覺得它很酷。這是 Helios 飛機在 80,000 英尺高空飛行的照片。地球的弧線清晰地位於大氣層之上，陽光毫無遮擋地照射進來。當然，這意味著需要更多能源。

And I did a little engineering work since last time you saw this. At 80,000 feet, atmospheric pressure is down to 0.4 pounds per square inch from 14.7 psi at sea level. And okay, what does that mean? Well, here, obviously, it's -- you can't breathe, but there's more than that.

自從上次你看到這個以來，我做了一些工程的工作。在 80,000 英尺的高度，大氣壓力從海平面的 14.7 psi 降至每平方英吋 0.4 磅。好的，那是什麼意思呢？很明顯，這裡的情況是——你無法呼吸，但還有更多問題。

The boiling point of water at sea level is 212F and the boiling point of water at that pressure is 59F. Said another way, if your body is at 86 -- 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit, your body temperature is enough to boil your blood. Hence, if you fly in one of these airplanes, you have to wear a space suit. And this is my favorite of all the pictures. You can see completely sealed up oxygen.

海平面上水的沸點是 212 華氏度，此壓力下水的沸點是 59 華氏度。換句話說，如果你的體溫在華氏86度到98.6度之間，那麼你的體溫就足以讓你的血液沸騰。因此，如果你搭乘這些飛機，就必須穿著太空衣。這是我最喜歡的一張照片。你可以看到完全封閉的氧氣。

They'll run in 4.7 pounds of oxygen, which is partial pressure that you get on earth. And I really like this one. And this airplane can stay up forever because it has batteries in it. This is a report we put out this morning early. Record financials.

它們將在 4.7 磅氧氣的環境下運行，這是地球上氧氣的分壓。我真的很喜歡這個。這架飛機可以一直飛行，因為它裡面有電池。這是我們今天早上早些時候發布的一份報告。財務數據記錄。

I'll talk about that. We have two acquisitions I'll mention, and we just signed a $55 million equity line of credit. I'll go through this in detail on the next page.

我會談到這一點。我接下來要提一下我們完成的兩項收購，而且我們剛剛簽署了一項 5,500 萬美元的股權信貸額度。我將在下一頁詳細講解。

The main points are our revenue set a record of $88.5 million, up from $70 million last quarter. The main thing is that we have two new acquisitions, Sunder, which contributed a full quarter of revenue and Ambia a partial quarter. Our operating income is a -- for the new SunPower record of $3.5 million. That's only 4% of revenue. Our target is to get to operating income to 10%. And our ending cash balance was $9.3 million, up from $5.1 million in the prior quarter.

重點是，我們的營收創下 8,850 萬美元的紀錄，高於上一季的 7,000 萬美元。最重要的是，我們進行了兩項新的收購，Sunder 貢獻了一個季度的收入，Ambia 貢獻了部分季度的收入。我們的營業收入為－創下 SunPower 的新紀錄，達到 350 萬美元。那隻佔收入的4%。我們的目標是實現營業收入達到 10%。期末現金餘額為 930 萬美元，高於上一季的 510 萬美元。

And we -- I already mentioned this, but we increased our equity line of credit with White Line Capital, that's our vendor in Southern California to $55 million on January 11. It's now signed and the shareholders have to approve it because it's an equity transaction. We've got a shareholder meeting coming up. A little bit of details. These are abbreviated preliminary financials.

而且——我已經提到過這一點，我們在 1 月 11 日將我們在南加州的供應商 White Line Capital 的股權信貸額度增加到 5500 萬美元。協議已經簽署，由於這是一項股權交易，因此需要股東批准。我們即將召開股東大會。一些細節。這些是簡要的初步財務數據。

I don't expect them to change a lot, but I've limited to the key numbers that investors want to see based on my experience.

我預計它們不會有太大變化，但我根據我的經驗，只列出了投資者想看到的關鍵數字。

So on the non-GAAP side over here, we jumped 26% quarter-on-quarter revenue to $88.5. On the gross margin, we had exceptional gross margin because we cleaned up some old backlog that we bought from SunPower. And the reason I put base 38% is to say that's our normal fall-through of gross margin. I urge you not to change models and put in some giant numbers, which are unmakable in the long haul.

因此，在非GAAP方面，我們的季度營收季增了26%，達到8,850萬美元。在毛利率方面，我們的毛利率非常出色，因為我們清理了從SunPower收購的一些舊積壓訂單。我之所以設定基準線為 38%，是因為這是我們正常的毛利率下降幅度。我懇請你們不要改變模型，也不要引入一些巨大的數字，因為從長遠來看，這些數字是無法實現的。

And then I'll point that our OpEx went up only 8.5% quarter-on-quarter. And by the way, we're working on that. That can get better, yes. That left us with a record profit of $3.545 million, up from $2 million last quarter. We also added $4.3 million in cash.

然後我還要指出，我們的營運支出較上季僅成長了 8.5%。順便說一句，我們正在努力解決這個問題。情況會好轉的，是的。這使我們獲得了創紀錄的 354.5 萬美元利潤，高於上一季的 200 萬美元。我們還追加了430萬美元現金。

This did not include any money from the ELOC I mentioned. This was the "natural quarter" that we had. This is a graph of our operating income.

這不包括我提到的ELOC中的任何資金。這是我們擁有的「天然四分之一」。這是我們的營業收入圖表。

So it shows time before acquisition, time after acquisition, $0 here, massive loss for the three components of what turned now called SunPower, one quarter of loss and then now four quarters of profit, including a record profit this quarter. We came out of -- this is a revenue sort of a footnote. We came out of SunPower acquisition with about $80 million a quarter in revenue, $320 million run rate. The record was set in the second quarter.

所以它顯示了收購前的時間、收購後的時間，這裡是 0 美元，當時被命名為 SunPower 的三個組成部分都遭受了巨額虧損，一個季度虧損，然後現在是四個季度盈利，包括本季度創紀錄的利潤。我們從——這算是收入的一個註腳。收購 SunPower 後，我們每季營收約 8,000 萬美元，年化收入為 3.2 億美元。該紀錄是在第二節創造的。

We got the bad news of the ITC cut in the second quarter, and our revenue dropped precipitously, but we were ahead of it with cost cutting, and we actually made almost the same profit on a lot less revenue. We recovered in the third quarter a little bit to $70 million of revenue. This number when I first showed it to you 91 days ago was $3.123 million, and it was a record.

第二季我們收到了 ITC 削減稅收抵免的壞消息，收入急劇下降，但我們提前採取了成本削減措施，實際上在收入大幅減少的情況下，我們獲得了幾乎相同的利潤。第三季我們的營收略有回升，達到 7,000 萬美元。91 天前我第一次向你們展示這個數字時，它是 312.3 萬美元，這是一個紀錄。

We chose because we had a lot of aged backlog that we inherited from SunPower, now completely collected, I might add. But at that time, we had aged backlog. We took $1.1 million out of this number and stuffed it into reserves. So we have reserves in the $8 million range. We've been getting our reserves so we can have some sort of hiccup in the future and not trash our earnings.

我們之所以做出這樣的選擇，是因為我們繼承了 SunPower 的大量積壓工作，現在這些工作已經全部完成了。但當時，我們已經積壓了大量過期訂單。我們從這個數字中取出了 110 萬美元，並將其存入儲備金。因此，我們有大約 800 萬美元的儲備金。我們一直在累積儲備金，以應對未來可能出現的一些小問題，避免影響我們的收益。

The quarter we're in now, $88.5 million, primarily a large growth due to the start-ups just starting -- to the acquisitions just starting to kick in, and that led record revenue to record profit. For the next quarter, I've got a conservative estimate here where -- by the way, this shows the acquisitions, Sunder, Ambia and Cobalt. I'll talk about each of them later. I went down 4.4% in the estimate and the profit is commensurate with that.

我們現在所處的季度，營收為 8,850 萬美元，這主要是由於新創公司剛剛起步，收購也開始發揮作用，從而實現了創紀錄的收入和利潤。對於下一季度，我這裡有一個保守的估計——順便說一下，這顯示了收購情況，Sunder、Ambia 和 Cobalt。我稍後會逐一談到它們。我的預估下降了 4.4%，利潤也相應下降了。

That's conservative. We believe we can make that number. But this quarter is typically the bad quarter for solar, the winter quarter, and we're deployed in the north. And then you've got the ITC uncertainty. So this will still be our second best quarter ever, even in the uncertain perfect storm quarter of Q1 '26.

這算是保守估計了。我們相信我們能達到這個目標。但通常來說，這個季度是太陽能產業的淡季，也就是冬季季度，而我們的業務部署在北方。此外，還有國際貿易委員會（ITC）的不確定性。所以，即使在充滿不確定性的完美風暴——2026 年第一季——這仍然將是我們有史以來第二好的季度。

Okay. It was our fourth consecutive profitable quarter. So our whole year was profitable. That comes off of four consecutive years that the prior SunPower different company did not make money.

好的。這是我們連續第四個獲利季度。所以我們全年都獲利了。在此之前，SunPower 公司連續四年沒有獲利。

Our Q4 '25 revenue and operating income were both records. Our 2025 revenue totaled $308.8 million. So we managed to hold the revenue and not lose it. And there are factors that can cause you to lose revenue in our business. I'll talk about that later with a profit.

我們2025年第四季的營收和營業利潤均創歷史新高。我們2025年的收入總計為3.088億美元。所以我們保住了收入，沒有損失收入。在我們的行業中，有一些因素會導致您損失收入。我稍後會再談這件事，到時候再說。

And that included a loss of this profit of $1.1 million in bad debt reserve we took last quarter. Our Q1 '26 revenue is expected to be $84 million, and I say it's highly uncertain.

其中包括上季提列的110萬美元壞帳準備金造成的利潤損失。我們預計 2026 年第一季的營收為 8,400 萬美元，但我認為這非常不確定。

I'm pretty sure of the $84 million, but I put some slack in the writing. Our Q1 '26 operating income is expected to be positive. That's the main event. And if we make it through Q1 with a positive income, we're going to make it through 2026. I'm going to say one thing about marketing.

我對 8400 萬美元這個數字相當有把握，但我在寫作時留了一些餘地。我們預計2026年第一季的營業收入將為正值。這是重頭戲。如果我們能順利度過第一季並實現正收入，那麼我們就能挺過 2026 年。關於行銷，我只想說一件事。

This is the Energy Information Agency, sort of the -- one of the official places to get data. This is United States residential solar penetration.

這是能源資訊署，算是取得數據的官方機構之一。這是美國住宅太陽能普及率。

So it says that in the United States, we currently as of 2024, this report, we're 5.6% penetrated, up from 3.7% in 2020. And then here, you can see in the West, the sunny West in California, where green is in big time, the penetrations are higher. But even then, the highest penetration on the list is 15.5%. Point is I don't think about the market as being competitive like I used to with chips. Don't worry about my competitor that's got to RAM cheaper and mine or processor with more megaflops per millowatt, don't think about any of that.

報告顯示，截至 2024 年，美國的滲透率為 5.6%，高於 2020 年的 3.7%。然後在這裡，你可以看到西部，陽光明媚的加州西部，那裡綠色植物非常流行，滲透率更高。但即便如此，榜單上的最高滲透率也只有 15.5%。重點是，我不再像以前那樣認為這個市場像晶片市場那樣充滿競爭了。別擔心我的競爭對手，他們的記憶體更便宜，或是他們的處理器每毫瓦功耗的浮點運算能力更強，別去想這些。

The market here is an ocean, infinite. And when you throw your cork in the ocean, it doesn't cause somebody else's cork to go up or down. It's just there to be taken. And that's why I am not going to talk all about ITC and speculate on rates going up and down because this is an exponential growth curve. And the reason it is, is there.

這裡的市場浩瀚無垠，如同海洋一般。而且，當你把軟木塞扔進海裡時，並不會引起其他人的軟木塞上升或下降。它就放在那裡等著被拿走。所以，我不會多談ITC，也不會猜測利率的漲跌，因為這是指數成長曲線。原因就在那裡。

Today, 94.6%, 100% minus that of qualifying homes do not yet have solar.

如今，94.6%（100%減去符合資格的家庭）的家庭還沒有安裝太陽能係統。

And the price of solar, your competitor isn't confident. The price of solar goes up -- the price of electricity goes up every year, and it goes up faster than the index than any inflation index. So your competitor is giving you business. So stop thinking about do you have a hiccup, what happens with the dislocation in the market. Stop thinking about that and go take some market share.

你的競爭對手對太陽能的價格沒有信心。太陽能發電的價格上漲了——電價每年都在上漲，而且上漲速度比任何通貨膨脹指數都要快。所以你的競爭對手正在為你帶來生意。所以，別再想著如果出現小故障，市場出現動盪會發生什麼事了。別再想這些了，趕快去搶市佔。

That's where my head is. This is a graph of acquisition-related increases in our sales rep headcount.

我腦子裡想的都是這些。這是因收購而導致的銷售代表人數成長圖表。

So in the solar business, we talk about 1099s, meaning in the IRS, they're 1099s, meaning they're independent contractors. They don't work for us. We can't give them orders. We can't force them to domicile somewhere, and they can quit it well. And the fact is in the 1099 world, oftentimes people will go to a different company, and you'll find out about it later.

所以在太陽能產業，我們談到 1099 表格，這意味著在國稅局，他們是 1099 表格持有者，這意味著他們是獨立承包商。他們不為我們工作。我們不能給他們下命令。我們不能強迫他們定居在某個地方，也可以隨時離開。事實是，在 1099 年合約工的世界裡，人們經常會跳槽到其他公司，而你之後才會知道這件事。

So these are our reps. And the name of the game here is since you don't pay for them, you pay them only commission. They are only incremental costs, big incremental costs, but only incremental cost, you get as many as you can, okay? So now we go back to the beginning of this year, we had 1,126 reps. They all came from old SunPower.

這些就是我們的代表。關鍵在於，既然你不用為他們付費，你就只需支付佣金。它們只是增量成本，很大的增量成本，但只是增量成本，你能得到的就越多，好嗎？現在我們回到今年年初，我們進行了 1126 次重複練習。它們都來自之前的SunPower公司。

And old SunPower was in the process of a strong decline because the old SunPower went bankrupt.

而老SunPower公司當時正處於快速衰退期，因為它破產了。

And a lot of the guys decided to head for the road and find a new home at that time. In Q3, we announced Sunder. Sunder was, in my mind, the most important sales company in Salt Lake, and that's Solar Valley, Salt Lake, Utah. And we brought on -- we more than doubled our sales force. Now you notice here, while this sales force was declining in Q3, the Sunder sales force actually grew.

當時很多傢伙決定離開樂隊，去尋找新的歸宿。第三季度，我們發布了 Sunder。在我看來，Sunder 是鹽湖城最重要的銷售公司，而鹽湖城就是猶他州鹽湖城的 Solar Valley。而且，我們的銷售團隊規模擴大了一倍以上。現在您注意到，雖然這家公司的銷售團隊在第三季有所下降，但 Sunder 公司的銷售團隊實際上卻有所成長。

So when Eric Nielsen took over and started running sales right, better than me for sure, then the 1099s decided it was in their interest to come to work for us. So that -- this number has actually been growing. Then in Q4, we announced Ambia, and Ambia was 20 -- added 203 salespeople, and they're still with us. This is a snapshot on today, so I can give you where we are now.

所以當艾瑞克·尼爾森接手並開始正確地管理銷售工作時（肯定比我做得好），那些1099員工就覺得來我們公司工作對他們有利。所以——這個數字其實一直在成長。然後在第四季度，我們宣布成立 Ambia，Ambia 成立 20 年——增加了 203 名銷售人員，他們現在仍然和我們在一起。這是今天的簡要情況，所以我可以向你們介紹一下我們目前的狀況。

And then -- we've never announced this, but another company in Salt Lake went bankrupt. It's called Purolite. It had 350 sales reps that were generally considered to be really top-notch. So we created a program to bring them in, talk about it later, and we hired them. So I didn't put this on any of the financials because they're 1099s.

然後——我們從未公開宣布過——鹽湖城的另一家公司破產了。它叫普羅萊特（Purolite）。該公司擁有 350 名銷售代表，他們普遍被認為是頂尖的。所以我們制定了一個方案，把他們招進來，之後再討論，然後我們就聘用了他們。所以我沒有把這筆錢計入任何財務報表，因為它們是 1099 表格。

We have now more 1099s working for us, and these guys are pretty good. And the fact is the results are producing so far are pretty impressive.

我們現在僱用了更多 1099 合約工，這些人工作都很出色。事實上，目前為止所取得的成果相當令人印象深刻。

So bottom line, we've gone from 1,100 to 2,000 rounded out, almost double in our sales rep headcount. Having said that, there's another headcount that matters and matters in a different way. This is our direct employee headcount. These we call W-2s, those that work for us, and we pay them to standard employees. That needs to stay stable because when this goes up to a first order directly proportional, your cost going up and your gross profit going down.

總而言之，我們的銷售代表人數從 1100 人增加到 2000 人，幾乎翻了一番。話雖如此，還有另一個重要的人數統計問題，而這個問題的重要性體現在不同的方面。這是我們的直接僱員人數。我們稱這些員工為 W-2 表格的員工，他們為我們工作，我們向他們支付工資給正式員工。必須保持穩定，因為當這種情況上升到一級比例時，你的成本就會上升，毛利就會下降。

So this thing goes all the way back to Q3 '24 back in that massive loss quarter I showed you earlier, you can see why there was massive losses. The combined companies had 3,499 employees. We used the ARC strategy and put -- we said we can handle 1,225 on the ARC, and we achieved that by the fourth quarter of year before last. Then we tightened our target to 980, and we achieved that. And now we're in the game of acquiring and acquiring.

這件事要追溯到 2024 年第三季度，也就是我之前給你看的那個巨額虧損季度，你應該可以看出為什麼會有巨額虧損。合併後的公司共有 3499 名員工。我們採用了 ARC 策略，並表示我們可以在 ARC 上處理 1,225 個項目，我們在前年第四季實現了這一目標。然後我們將目標縮小到 980，並且實現了這個目標。現在我們正處於不斷收購的階段。

So we pushed up a little bit. We actually were down here, but then we pushed up. Ambia had a bunch of direct employees because they were a real company with EPC and real meat in that company. And now we've started using synergy where we have two of this and two of that to cut down and we're back down to 47. The goal is still to get to 820 after having absorbed the best people from three companies, all of the sales reps that want to work for us, plus the best of the other W-2 people using synergy to use the best of decision, who stays and who doesn't.

所以我們向上推了一點。我們當時其實在這裡，但後來我們向上推了上來。Ambia 擁有大量直接僱員，因為他們是一家真正的公司，擁有 EPC 和實實在在的業務。現在我們開始利用綜效，用兩個這種產品和兩個那種產品來減少數量，現在數量又降到了 47。我們的目標仍然是在吸收了三家公司最優秀的人才、所有想為我們工作的銷售代表，以及其他 W-2 員工中最優秀的人才之後，達到 820 人，利用協同效應做出最佳決策，決定誰留下誰離開。

Okay. If you then hold your headcount constant and grow to record revenue, then our overarching metric is revenue per employee per year. And this is a relatively crude metric, but it's not that bad. You just think somewhere between $70,000, $78,000 a year for the average employee in solar, multiply that and you got a cost and you take your headcount and you've got a major part of your cost furthermore, everybody adds other expenses.

好的。如果維持員工人數不變，收入成長到創紀錄的水平，那麼我們的整體指標就是每位員工每年的收入。這雖然是比較粗略的衡量標準，但也沒那麼糟。你想想，太陽能產業普通員工的年薪大概在 7 萬到 7.8 萬美元之間，乘以這個數字，你就得到了成本，再加上你的員工人數，你就得到了成本的主要部分，此外，每個人還會增加其他開支。

Okay. So we came out in the first quarter at $285,000. We lost money that quarter. We cut our expenses that quarter. So I'm going to tell you that this number right here, $285,000 per employee per year is our breakeven level.

好的。所以，我們第一季的營收是 28.5 萬美元。那一季我們虧損了。那一季我們削減了開支。所以我要告訴大家，這個數字，就是每位員工每年 285,000 美元，就是我們的損益平衡點。

It wasn't in this quarter, but it is now. Then we jumped up to 360, times are full line high, then we got clobbered with our revenue going down, and we stayed at 304. That's make a little bit of money level.

本季沒有，但現在有了。然後我們跳到了 360，達到了高峰，然後我們的收入下降，我們受到了重創，最終停留在了 304。那隻是賺點小錢的程度。

Then we climbed to 337 last quarter. And this quarter, we're setting a record first time we've been over $400,000 per employee per year. So there's Sunder coming in and there's Ambia coming in. And those companies brought in more salespeople and sales than they brought in people. Therefore, revenue per employee went up in each case.

上個季度我們攀升至 337。本季度，我們創下了員工年收入首次超過 40 萬美元的紀錄。所以桑德爾要來了，安比亞也要來了。這些公司引進的銷售人員和銷售額比引進的員工人數還要多。因此，在每種情況下，每位員工的收入都增加了。

I'm comparing to Sunrun because I admire them.

我之所以拿他們和Sunrun比較，是因為我很欣賞他們。

If you take their revenue of $240 billion and 11,058 employees, these are published numbers, you get $217,000. -- not a completely fair comparison because they also run the utility, right? They keep their jobs. They don't sell them like we do to some other financial company or to the owner of a house. They keep them and they're building a utility and they have the infrastructure to bill and collect it.

如果用他們 2400 億美元的收入和 11058 名員工（這些都是公開數據）來計算，你會得到 217000 美元。 ——這並不完全公平，因為他們也經營著公用事業，對吧？他們保住了工作。他們不像我們一樣把這些東西賣給其他金融公司或房主。他們保留這些資金，並正在建造公用事業，他們擁有計費和收款的基礎設施。

But nonetheless, I'm very proud of our productivity per employee. And I don't know because there's not a lot of data, but I think it's probably the best in the industry, certainly as good as the chip industry was when I was in that. And final point, we have a clear line of sight to get to $0.5 million per employee per year. I can see that because we're just now starting to incremental revenue doesn't add -- I don't add an incremental lawyer to add incremental revenue.

但即便如此，我仍然為我們員工的人均生產力感到非常自豪。我不知道，因為數據不多，但我認為它可能是業內最好的，肯定和我當年在晶片行業時一樣好。最後一點，我們有明確的目標，即實現每位員工每年 50 萬美元的收入。我明白，因為我們現在才剛開始，增量收入並不會增加──我不會為了增加增量收入而增加律師。

I don't add an incremental controller to get incremental revenue, et cetera. So we're amortizing overhead. This is a graph of market cap, your ratio of market cap to revenue. If you looked at it on a stock basis, it's a price per share to sales per share ratio or PS ratio. So it's the analog of PE ratio, but market cap on sales.

我不會為了增加收入而增加增量控制器等等。所以，我們是在攤銷間接費用。這是市值圖表，即市值與收入的比率。如果從股票的角度來看，那就是每股價格與每股銷售額之比，或者說PS比率。所以它類似市盈率，但用市值乘以銷售額。

And here, you see an interesting trend. You see SunPower, I mean, that's almost planks constant.

這裡，你可以看到一個有趣的趨勢。你看，SunPower，我的意思是，這幾乎就是平板支撐的常數。

I actually had written it here, and I got rid of it because it was too cute. It's 0.55 plus or minus 0.15. So then I said, is that good or bad? And a while back, when we were down here, I said, well, the whole solar industry is getting clobbered, and we're doing about as well as them. Well, if you look at the leader, Sunrun, they've recovered, and we have, and I'm going to address that today.

我之前其實在這裡寫過，後來刪掉了，因為它太可愛了。誤差範圍是 0.55 正負 0.15。所以我就問，這到底是好還是壞？前段時間，我們在這裡的時候，我說，整個太陽能產業都受到了重創，而我們的情況也差不多。嗯，如果你看看領頭羊 Sunrun，他們已經恢復了，我們也恢復了，我今天就要談談這個問題。

that is a problem for me and an opportunity for investors because yes, you guys managed to move that thing right across my arrow.

這對我來說是個問題，對投資人來說是個機會，因為你們成功地把那件事推向了我的目標。

Okay. Because that's a 3 times change if we can figure out the formula to get to that multiple, which is achievable. And I'll also point out that we have a high-tech index that PS ratio for five, six companies is 2.2. And if you look at a company like Enphase, a solar company, they're up at 3.3. So this is still depressed as an industry, the leader should be higher, and we just want to catch up.

好的。因為如果我們能找到計算這個倍數的公式，那就是 3 倍的變化，而這是可以實現的。我還要指出，我們有一個高科技指數，其中五、六家公司的本益比（PS）為2.2。而像Enphase這樣的太陽能公司，其本益比高達3.3。因此，整個行業仍然低迷，領頭羊的本益比應該更高，我們只是需要迎頭趕上。

That's my job. Okay. So why did Sunrun recover from the ITC cut while SunPower didn't.

那是我的工作。好的。那麼，為什麼Sunrun能夠從ITC削減的影響中恢復過來，而SunPower卻沒有呢？

And I've listed three reasons here. One is cash. Last quarter in this meeting, last quarter, we reported $5.1 million in cash. And I did that honestly, so you all know where we were. And I won't say freak out, but people are going, whoa, that's not enough.

我在這裡列出了三個原因。一種是現金。上個季度，也就是上個季度，我們在本次會議上報告稱，我們擁有510萬美元現金。而且我如實陳述了這件事，所以你們都知道我們當時的狀況。我不會說要驚慌失措，但人們會說，哇，這還不夠。

So we have raised our equity line of credit. This is -- so an equity line of credit, you sign a contract, a broker agrees to have stock put on them and sell it and give you back proceeds.

因此，我們提高了股權信貸額度。這就是——股權信貸額度，你簽署一份合同，經紀人同意將股票存入他們的帳戶，然後出售並將所得款項返還給你。

So it's like an ATM where you do it yourself and the proper ELOC has got professionals selling it is kinder on the market and doesn't cost any more than an ATM. So that got raised from $20 million to $55 million -- $30 million to $55 million. point here is we chose an ELOC because that's an option to raise money, not a raise. But you can raise now and you can raise on demand. And that means we weren't forced to raise expensive money immediately.

所以它就像一台ATM機，你可以自己操作，而正規的ELOC是由專業人士銷售的，對市場更友好，而且成本並不比ATM機高。所以，募款金額從2000萬美元增加到了5500萬美元——從3000萬美元增加到了5500萬美元。重點是我們選擇ELOC（電子借貸）是因為這是一種籌款方式，而不是增加撥款。但您可以立即籌集資金，也可以按需籌集資金。這意味著我們不必立即籌集昂貴的資金。

So right now, that's expensive. At our share price, I think equity is expensive. So what I want to do is have $10 million at the end of every quarter come hell or high water. And then -- but I don't want to pay for that right now other than a promise to work with these guys over time, which we certainly will. We like these guys are pretty good WhiteLion. We also have three other funding deals in progress.

所以現在，這很貴。我認為以我們目前的股價來看，股票價格偏高。所以，我的目標是無論遇到什麼困難，每季末都能擁有 1,000 萬美元的盈餘。然後——但我現在不想為此付出任何代價，除了承諾在未來與這些人合作，而我們肯定會這樣做。我們覺得這群傢伙蠻不錯的，WhiteLion。我們還有三項其他融資交易正在進行中。

I talked about these last year. I've worked on everyone for the last like six weeks. We've got meetings and discussions in three other areas, and I will be announcing things over time. Second point, we had late SEC report. Our Q3 was late. And it turned out, everybody is going, oh my God, what's going on? The old SunPower had problems with their auditor blah, blah, blah.

我去年就談到這些。過去六週左右，我一直在為所有人工作。我們也在其他三個領域舉行了會議和討論，我會陸續公佈相關消息。第二點，我們收到的美國證券交易委員會報告晚了。我們的第三季財報延期了。結果，大家都在說，我的天哪，發生了什麼事？老SunPower公司和他們的審計師之間出現了一些問題，等等等等。

It turns out we're just slow and not okay, but we were slow and the actual change that happened after all of that was de minimis. It was that $1.1 million I talked about, which actually ensures future performance if you look at it that way. Our financial system is currently a mix of acquired systems. And now we have two brand-new acquired systems, and that slows us down. We're not nimble on finances the way I'm used to it.

事實證明，我們只是反應遲鈍，而且情況並不好，但我們的確反應遲鈍，而之後發生的實際變化微乎其微。我之前提到的那110萬美元，從這個角度來看，實際上可以確保未來的業績。我們的金融體系目前是由收購而來的多個系統混合而成。現在我們又收購了兩套全新的系統，這拖慢了我們的速度。我們不像我以前那樣善於理財。

And if you want to ask about King, talk about Intel. They report early in the quarter with the reports filed, always ready to go. That's my goal, and that's what I'm demanding from our finance people. But we go back and forth with the auditor and those cycles are long, and that's what pumped us over on the late SEC report. There was no smoke indicating fire or anything like that.

如果你想問關於 King 的問題，那就談談 Intel 吧。他們每季初就會提交報告，隨時準備就緒。這就是我的目標，也是我對財務人員的要求。但我們與審計師反覆溝通，這些週期很長，這就是導致我們遲遲未能提交美國證券交易委員會報告的原因。沒有冒煙，沒有發現火災或其他類似跡象。

But I'm tired of it. And therefore, I've hired a guy named Cal Hoagland. He's a well-known Silicon Valley financial consultant. He's worked for 20 companies. He is -- he comes in, he's an auditor himself, and he helps you straighten up your finances by bringing in his knowledge of state-of-the-art systems. In the last three years, he's worked for 20 companies.

但我已經厭倦了。因此，我僱用了一個名叫卡爾·霍格蘭的人。他是矽谷一位知名的金融顧問。他曾為20家公司工作。他──他本身就是一名審計員，他會運用自己對最先進系統的了解，幫助你理順財務狀況。過去三年裡，他先後在 20 家公司工作。

And his longest tenure at any one of the company has been seven months. So he comes in, helps you fix it and then goes on to his next company. And he's been with us for a few weeks right now. And he's going to help us speed up, upgrade our financial systems. Finally, I've been talking CFO now for six months. I've used my own network, which I could find a CFO.

他在公司任何一家公司的最長任期都只有七個月。所以他會進來，幫你解決問題，然後就去下一家公司了。他已經和我們在一起幾個星期了。他將幫助我們加快步伐，升級我們的金融體系。最後，我已經擔任財務長六個月了。我利用自己的人脈關係找到了一位財務長。

I'm right here in Silicon Valley right now. But I could use my network and talk to three CFOs and have one in two weeks. But I want somebody in Salt Lake, and that's been harder for me.

我現在就在矽谷。但我可以利用我的人脈，和三位財務長談談，兩週內就能找到一位。但我想要一個住在鹽湖城的人，這對我來說更難。

And we're working on it, and we have a list of Salt Lake CFOs right now, and we're doing methodical interviews. So we have a formal search going on. And finally, I've talked about this before, disinformation from financial services. This quarter, I read in one place that we were being investigated by the SEC, not true. The old SunPower was being investigated by the SEC, et cetera, and I've asked them to stop and be careful and they're not listening.

我們正在努力，目前我們已經列出了鹽湖城首席財務官的名單，並且正在進行有條不紊的面試。所以我們正在進行正式的遴選工作。最後，我之前也談過這一點，那就是來自金融服務的假訊息。本季度，我看到有地方說我們正在接受美國證券交易委員會的調查，這是不實的。老 SunPower 公司當時正受到美國證券交易委員會等機構的調查，我要求他們停止調查並謹慎行事，但他們根本不聽。

And the next time they hear from me, it will be a formal demand, not -- why don't you guys -- you guys claim to show the light for finances. Work with me because I tell you how to invest. Well, if you can't get the name of a company right, what credibility do you have? So that's going to be subject to my purse strings, my next initiative. Monolith.

下次我再跟他們說這些，就會是正式的要求，而不是──你們這些人──你們聲稱自己是金融界的指路人。與我合作，因為我會教你如何投資。如果你連公司名稱都記不住，你的信譽又從何談起呢？所以，我的下一個計劃將由我親自支配資金。巨石。

We announced this a while back. This is the name of a solar panel. I picked the name and I actually -- we have a thing called SunPower of the movies in Salt Lake, and I showed 2001 space Odyssey done in 1968, an amazing movie. And there's this mysterious monolith that. Black monolith. You never know what it is. And the movie never tells you.

我們之前已經宣布過這件事了。這是太陽能電池板的名稱。這個名字是我選的，而且實際上——我們在鹽湖城有一個名為「太陽之力」的電影放映會，我放映了1968年上映的《2001太空漫遊》，這是一部很棒的電影。還有一塊神秘的巨石。黑色巨石。你永遠不知道那是什麼。而電影裡卻從未告訴你答案。

Roger Ebert when he reviewed the movie back when it came up, said it asked more questions than it answers. So we called our all-Black high-wattage panel, Monolith. This is our sales conference and me pulling a thing off to also spot there through the music from -- the music from the music from the movie. What's good about it is it's -- I call it a record 470 watts. Now if you ask for -- go on your phone and say, list 500-watt panels for me, you'll get a big list. So why is 470 record? Because the real name of the game here is that OSHA enforces a weight limit and they say a panel can't weigh more than 50 pounds.

羅傑艾伯特在影片上映時曾評論過它，他說這部電影提出的問題比給出的答案還要多。因此，我們將這款全黑高功率面板命名為「巨石」。這是我們的銷售會議，我正在想辦法透過電影中的音樂——電影中的音樂——來展示一些東西。它的優點在於——我稱之為創紀錄的 470 瓦。現在，如果你打電話說“幫我列出500瓦的太陽能電池板”，你就會得到一個很長的清單。那麼，為什麼是 470 次呢？因為問題的關鍵在於，美國職業安全與健康管理局 (OSHA) 強制規定了重量限制，他們說面板的重量不能超過 50 磅。

And if it does, then the work limits change. For example, you need two guys to lift the panel and install it, disaster for efficiency. So there is in the residential area. Now you go and that's two square meters for the panel area. If you go into utilities, the typical panel is three square meters, so it's 1.5 times more power and many of them are over 500 watts. But they're lifted into place by robots in a construction site. It's not apples-to-apples.

如果確實如此，那麼工作限制就會改變。例如，你需要兩個人才能抬起並安裝面板，這會嚴重影響效率。所以，住宅區裡有。現在，面板面積是兩平方公尺。如果進入公用事業領域，典型的太陽能板是三平方米，所以它的功率是普通太陽能板的 1.5 倍，而且很多太陽能板的功率都超過 500 瓦。但它們是由建築工地上的機器人吊運到位的。這根本不是同類比較。

I want to give credit to our partner, REC, which is the largest non-Chinese panel company in the world solar panel and actually, they're the largest in the United States for residential solar panels. And this is -- I see why we use the monolith for a word. Otherwise, I'd have to talk about our Alpha Pure-RX 470-watt panel. which I don't want to do. But I want to give credit to these guys.

我要感謝我們的合作夥伴 REC，它是全球最大的非中國太陽能板公司，事實上，它也是美國最大的住宅太陽能板公司。這就是——我明白了為什麼我們用「巨石」這個詞來形容它。否則，我就不得不談談我們的 Alpha Pure-RX 470 瓦太陽能板了，但我不想談這個。但我要表揚這些人。

They're good, and we're the only one that got that panel, by the way, that they offered us an exclusive. And we're working to make the site -- I mentioned this earlier, bifacial. -- that is instead of having black plastic on the back of the panel, glass on the front, if you put glass on the front and glass on the back, then light can come in from either side.

他們很棒，順便說一句，我們是唯一獲得那次小組討論機會的媒體，他們給了我們獨家採訪權。我們正在努力使網站——我之前提到過——雙面可用。也就是說，不是面板背面是黑色塑料，正面是玻璃，而是正面和背面都是玻璃，讓光線可以從兩側照射進來。

And if you can get some reflected light like the light reflected from the earth I showed you earlier coming in the back, you can get more power. Now it's not going to blow you away, but it's perfectly reasonable depending upon the installation and the place to get the panel over 500 watts just by putting glass on the back, and that's our plan. Cobalt, -- we announced on January 16, we signed a letter of intent to acquire Cobalt Power Systems.

如果你能獲得一些像我之前給你看的從地球反射過來的光線那樣的反射光，你就能獲得更多的能量。雖然這不會讓你大吃一驚，但根據安裝情況和地點，只需在背面加裝玻璃，就能使面板功率超過 500 瓦，這是完全合理的，而這正是我們的計劃。Cobalt，—我們在 1 月 16 日宣布，我們簽署了一份意向書，收購 Cobalt Power Systems。

And I wrote these words carefully, Silicon Valley's premier solar company. I was around when SunPower went public in 2002. I was Chairman of SunPower. And everybody knew about Cobalt. And they made a big deal about the Monolith panels. My guys back in Salt Lake said, yes, we got some more panels. That's great. We got a lot of different kinds of panels. John Bergh called me up and said, when can I get some? I said, when do you need them?

我鄭重寫下這些話：矽谷首屈一指的太陽能公司。2002 年 SunPower 上市時，我就在公司附近。我曾擔任SunPower公司董事長。大家都知道鈷礦。他們對巨石面板大肆宣傳。我在鹽湖城的同事們說，是的，我們又弄到了一些面板。那太棒了。我們有很多不同類型的面板。約翰伯格打電話給我說，我什麼時候可以拿到一些？我問，你們什麼時候需要它們？

He said, now. So they got put in his parking lot just last week. And one of our first projects is going to be 111 kilowatts. So they do bigger stuff. There's a building called the Fortinet building in Sunnyvale. Sunnyvale is two cities south of Palo Alto, dead center of Silicon Valley.

他說，現在。所以就在上週，他們被安置在他的停車場。我們首批項目之一將是111千瓦。所以他們就去做更大的事。在桑尼維爾有一棟叫做 Fortinet 大樓的建築。桑尼維爾位於帕洛阿爾託以南兩個城市，帕洛阿爾托是矽谷的中心。

And it's an iconic building. We're going to do -- that's going to be one of our first ones. When the ITC news came out, I wrote a press release called free at last. We're free of government meddling at last. We'll actually be a free market in solar at last, and that's going to play for us because we think free market. We don't think safe harbor, buy stuff and put it and let it rot in somewhere else. We don't work like that. We do what's best for a business. And I said we would take advantage of the free market because we know how to behave in free markets.

而且它是一座標誌性建築。我們將要做的是——這將是我們最先要做的事情之一。當 ITC 的消息傳出後，我寫了一篇題為「終於自由了」的新聞稿。我們終於擺脫了政府的干預。我們最終將真正實現太陽能領域的自由市場，這對我們有利，因為我們相信自由市場。我們不認為應該把東西買下來，放在別的地方任其腐爛，以此尋求安全港灣。我們不那樣做。我們做對企業最有利的事。我說我們會利用自由市場，因為我們知道如何在自由市場中行事。

And we have two goals, and I've already shown them to you, to rapidly grow our rep sales force as big as we can and to upgrade but not grow our 847-person workforce. And by the way, every one of them is an option holder. So that's a little piece of Silicon Valley that we brought to Salt Lake. Now I can introduce John Bergh. This is a picture.

我們有兩個目標，我已經向你們展示了，那就是盡可能迅速地擴大我們的銷售代表隊伍，以及升級但不增加我們 847 名員工的隊伍。順便說一句，他們每個人都是期權持有人。所以，這就是我們帶到鹽湖城的矽谷的一小部分。現在我可以介紹約翰·伯格了。這是一張圖片。

He has a house in Santa Cruz, and this is a picture of him, self-made man. His dad had a water well business and died and he got yanked out of college in his junior year to take the family business. He started working on solar thermal collectors. This is solar energy focused to heat water, worked his way into understanding PV. I knew about him at SunPower. He started the salesman and walked right through up to the Silicon Valley regional sales manager, arguably the most important sales position in sales other than maybe one of the biggest companies in Salt Lake.

他在聖克魯斯有一棟房子，這是他的照片，一個白手起家的成功人士。他父親經營水井生意，父親過世後，他大學三年級時被迫輟學接手家族生意。他開始研究太陽能集熱器。這是利用太陽能加熱水，他逐步了解了光伏發電。我在SunPower公司的時候就認識他了。他從銷售員做起，一路晉升到矽谷地區銷售經理，可以說是銷售領域最重要的職位，或許只有鹽湖城最大的公司才能與之媲美。

He went to work for Qcells a Korean manufacturer that sells a lot of panels in the U.S. and he was business development, selling at a high level using technology, biz dev, $336 million business. He used his own funds to buy Cobalt systems. Cobalt was well known. He bought it how long ago?

他加入了韓國製造商 Qcells，該公司在美國銷售大量面板，他負責業務拓展，運用技術和業務開發進行高水準的銷售，業務額達 3.36 億美元。他用自己的資金購買了 Cobalt 系統。鈷是眾所周知的。他買這件東西是什麼時候？

18 months ago. And it's been exploding right now. It was always a $25 million business. This year, they did $33 million. And he invented a cobalt concept and that I call sales system designers.

18個月前。現在情況正在急劇惡化。它一直是一家價值2500萬美元的企業。今年，他們的收入達到了3,300萬美元。他發明了一種鈷概念，我稱之為銷售系統設計師。

One of our companies, Ambia, had a concept that made us more efficient. And their concept was a salesman who sells at a house needs to do the site visit. The site visit is the next thing. Normally, some salesman or seller sells the home, then you go in and do a site visit, and that's when you take pictures of all the wiring and everything and so you can create a plan for the house. And Ambia asked their sales force to do site visits, they eliminated a whole step in the process, shortened down the process and also obviously made it more efficient. These guys have gone one step further.

我們公司之一 Ambia 的一個理念提高了我們的效率。他們的理念是，上門推銷的銷售員需要進行現場考察。接下來是實地考察。通常情況下，房子會先由銷售員或賣家出售，然後你進去進行現場考察，這時你可以拍攝所有線路和其他設施的照片，以便制定房屋平面圖。Ambia 要求其銷售團隊進行現場考察，他們取消了流程中的一個步驟，縮短了流程，顯然也提高了效率。這些人更進一步。

They are salespeople that are called system designers, they can design things. So they can go into some Mogul's house in Silicon Valley and put together a big system, which requires more elaborate and detailed plans than a simple retrofit on a suburban house. He's also an athlete and a coach, youth sports. And he's going to run Cobalt, which we are going to run due to fact he runs it. I've been there. I was there for their company, Picnic. It's got great it's free to core, and they're far away, except not for me, so I can meddle as frequently as I want.

他們是被稱為系統設計師的銷售人員，他們可以設計產品。所以他們可以走進矽谷某個大亨的家中，搭建一個大型系統，這需要比對郊區住宅進行簡單改造更複雜、更詳細的計畫。他也是一名運動員和教練，從事青少年體育運動。他將經營 Cobalt，而我們也會經營 Cobalt，因為他經營它。我去過那裡。我當時是陪他們去參加 Picnic 活動的。它很棒，而且完全免費，他們離我很遠，但對我來說不是，所以我可以隨心所欲地干預。

John, you got some words for us?

約翰，你有什麼話要對我們說嗎？

I do. Excited to be here. I've been involved with SunPower since late 2006, where our customers had to wait six months to get panels. Well, now they don't have to wait six months, and they don't want anything that's safe harbored and waiting in a warehouse for two years. They want the newest technology and they want it deployed, and they want to deploy it on their house now. Cost of electricity is going up.

我願意。很高興來到這裡。我從 2006 年底就開始參與 SunPower 的工作，當時我們的客戶需要等待六個月才能拿到太陽能板。現在他們不必等待六個月了，他們也不希望任何東西被安全地存放在倉庫裡兩年之久。他們想要最新的技術，他們想要部署這項技術，而且他們想要立即在自己家中部署這項技術。電價正在漲。

But what Cobalt Power Systems really represents here, and it's a different type of acquisition for Mr. Rodgers and Mr. McCranie and his team is we represent a differentiated scalable revenue vector for SunPower. So we're uniquely positioned to integrate sales origination, operational execution and next-generation renewable energy technology deployment, all within a single platform.

但 Cobalt Power Systems 的真正意義在於，對於 Rodgers 先生、McCranie 先生及其團隊而言，這是一次不同類型的收購，因為我們代表著 SunPower 一個差異化的、可擴展的收入來源。因此，我們擁有獨特的優勢，可以將銷售開發、營運執行和下一代再生能源技術部署整合到一個平台上。

So together, our combined capabilities, as TJ has mentioned earlier, with the sales capability, I mean, right now, we've got a dozen system designers and they're top notch, they're top tier. But having access to 1,800 or over 1,800 sales reps, that plays right into our position. So together, we can address the full spectrum of demand of the market, spanning residential, new home construction, multifamily, light commercial, large-scale commercial, industrial applications, including up to large-scale data center power infrastructure.

所以，正如 TJ 之前提到的，我們綜合起來的能力，加上銷售能力，我的意思是，現在我們有十幾位系統設計師，他們都是一流的，都是頂尖的。但擁有 1800 或 1800 多名銷售代表，這正符合我們的優勢。因此，我們可以共同滿足市場的各種需求，涵蓋住宅、新建房屋、多戶住宅、輕型商業、大型商業、工業應用，甚至包括大型資料中心電力基礎設施。

By operating Cobalt as a focused subsidiary within a publicly traded enterprise, SunPower unlocks a multiplier effect, unknown or unseen in the market. It's got efficient access to capital for a company like Cobalt. Its workforce scale and its institutional resources as a publicly traded company will allow us to scale, grow and meet the market demand for renewable energy power. It takes five to seven years for a gas turbine to be installed in one of these units.

透過將 Cobalt 作為上市公司的專注子公司進行運營，SunPower 釋放了市場上未知或未曾見過的倍增效應。對於像 Cobalt 這樣的公司來說，它能有效率地獲得資金。公司的員工規模和作為上市公司的機構資源將使我們能夠擴大規模、發展壯大，並滿足市場對再生能源電力的需求。在這些機組中安裝一台燃氣渦輪機需要五到七年時間。

They need power now. They need solar, they need wind. They need infrastructure and execution, which we can provide. Cobalt brings a proven track record of building, operating a profitable business unit, which is unique in solar. It's positioned to deliver meaningful, sustainable profitability while accelerating the deployment of industry-leading energy solutions to end users at scale.

他們現在就需要電力。他們需要太陽能，也需要風能。他們需要基礎設施和執行力，而我們恰好可以提供這些。Cobalt 在建立和營運獲利業務部門方面擁有良好的業績記錄，這在太陽能產業是獨一無二的。它旨在實現有意義的、可持續的盈利能力，同時加速向終端用戶大規模部署行業領先的能源解決方案。

That's why when we first got our first shipment of Monolith last Friday, we have customers that have already oversold. We already oversold our first container. So we're getting our second container. They want the most power dense module. They want to use the best parts of the roof. Why? Because they have EVs. They have complex energy demands that are requiring more electricity. We're here to serve that function.

這就是為什麼上週五我們收到第一批 Monolith 產品時，就已經有客戶超額訂購了。我們第一個貨櫃已經超賣了。所以我們即將收到第二個貨櫃。他們想要功率密度最高的模組。他們想利用屋頂上最好的部分。為什麼？因為他們有電動車。它們有複雜的能源需求，需要更多的電力。我們來這裡就是為了發揮這個作用。

But quality, quality is at the foundational standard and it always has been with SunPower. Quality, technology, that's the core of our platform. And now with TJ and his team, we have the disciplined execution at scale that will reestablish SunPower and establish the new SunPower in a league of its own over the coming months and years. So I couldn't be more excited.

但質量，品質是我們的基本標準，SunPower 一直都是如此。品質和技術，這是我們平台的核心。現在有了 TJ 和他的團隊，我們擁有了大規模的、有紀律的執行力，這將使 SunPower 重振雄風，並在未來幾個月和幾年內使新的 SunPower 獨樹一幟。我簡直興奮極了。

Thank you. So you said out what should I do? And I said, just tell them what you're planning on doing and being enthusiastic, and he did that. Okay. I want to talk about our other acquisitions for a minute.

謝謝。所以你問我該怎麼辦？我說，你就告訴他們你打算做什麼，並且表現出熱情，他就照做了。好的。我想花一點時間談談我們其他的收購項目。

We talked about Sunder, I told you before. Sunder sales company, they're six years old, accumulated a lot of sales.

我之前跟你說過，我們談過桑德爾的事。Sunder銷售公司成立六年，累積了大量的銷售額。

Eric Nielsen is their Co-Founder and President, and he's now the EVP of Sales and Marketing for the whole company and all the sales guys, except for a small group in new homes that sell to corporations that build projects work for him. And he recently created options so we can attract 1099s to stock options. And this is not unique to us, but it's relatively new and it's a formal program. And this is going to be part of our get as big a sales force as you can. As Cofounder is Max Britton, my favorite story about him is he was a tank commander, Abrams tank commander in Iraq.

埃里克·尼爾森是他們的聯合創始人兼總裁，他現在是整個公司的銷售和行銷執行副總裁，除了一小部分負責向建造專案的公司銷售新房的銷售人員外，所有銷售人員都為他工作。他最近創建了一個選擇權，以便我們可以吸引 1099 表格持有者購買股票選擇權。這並非我們獨有的做法，但它相對較新，而且是一個正式的專案。這將是我們盡可能擴大銷售團隊規模的一部分。共同創辦人是馬克斯·布里頓，我最喜歡聽他講的故事是，他曾是伊拉克戰爭中的艾布拉姆斯坦克指揮官。

And then after he got out, he signed up and was -- another -- for another service. So he calls me, yes, sir, my new name, not T.J. anymore. And he's running the Sunder sales division. And that means Sunder is going to sell sales that is they're going to do contracts with customers, create final contracts that are, let me call them, almost bulletproof and sell those.

然後他出獄後，又報名參加了另一個兵役。所以他叫我，是的，先生，我的新名字，不再是 T.J. 了。他負責管理 Sunder 的銷售部門。這意味著 Sunder 將出售銷售合同，也就是他們將與客戶簽訂合同，制定最終合同，我稱之為幾乎萬無一失的合同，然後出售這些合同。

And those things are worth $10,000, $12,000, $15,000. And they're going to keep that business going. So there's a higher velocity of sales going through our company than we're actually installing, meaning we can keep double loaded all of our internal capacity so that we don't have ups and downs with installers, for example, working half the time. And Devon Glassman is their first employee. He's a lawyer MBA, and he's the sales ops for the whole company. And this is -- I picked one slide to illustrate. This is us before. This is us before, and this is us after Sunder. I showed light coverage in the Sun states. Now we have heavy coverage in the Sun states, and we are in 45 states.

這些東西價值 1 萬美元、1.2 萬美元、1.5 萬美元。他們打算繼續經營這項業務。因此，我們公司的銷售速度比實際安裝速度要快，這意味著我們可以讓所有內部產能保持雙倍負荷，這樣就不會出現安裝人員工作時間不均等的情況。德文·格拉斯曼是他們的第一位員工。他擁有法律和工商管理碩士學位，負責整個公司的銷售運作。這就是──我挑選了一張投影片來舉例說明。這是我們以前的樣子。這是桑德爾之前的我們，這是桑德爾之後的我們。我在陽光充足的州進行了輕度報道。現在我們在陽光之州擁有強大的覆蓋範圍，我們的業務已覆蓋 45 個州。

That will make a difference. The next acquisition was Ambia. They're an $80 million company, and I got a couple more stars out of that. Conner Ruggio is their Co-Founder and CEO. He is an ultramarathon athlete, and he's running our SunPower Direct, which is all of SunPower except for new homes and sales.

那將會產生影響。接下來收購的對像是安比亞公司。他們是一家市值 8,000 萬美元的公司，我因此又多得了幾顆星。Conner Ruggio 是他們的共同創辦人兼執行長。他是一位超級馬拉松運動員，他負責營運我們的 SunPower Direct，該公司涵蓋 SunPower 除新建房屋和銷售以外的所有業務。

So SunPower has now got three parts, new homes, direct, which is all of the start-ups merged together and sales, which is the selling of orders, not the installing of product. And he's got an excellent COO. I'm an operating guy, right? So I know if these guys are good or not, and he's really good. And the same is Spencer Jensen.

所以 SunPower 現在有三個部分：新房業務、直銷業務（所有新創公司合併在一起）和銷售業務（銷售訂單，而不是產品安裝）。而且他還有一位非常優秀的營運長。我是做操作的，對吧？所以我知道這些人水平如何，而他真的很厲害。史賓塞·詹森也是如此。

And he's running direct operations for the largest part of the company, and I'll show you what that means shortly. We just acquired them. So I threw in two slides that they [blurred me] with. This is the revenue growth, and it shows they actually spun out of SunPower and they did spun out of SunPower and then they came back to sort of put us back together. And then they had a very successful run up to $80 million level in 2025.

他直接負責公司大部分業務的運營，稍後我會向你們解釋這意味著什麼。我們剛收購了它們。所以我放了兩張幻燈片，結果他們把我的照片模糊處理了。這是收入成長情況，這表明他們實際上已經從 SunPower 分拆出來，他們確實從 SunPower 分拆出來了，然後他們又回來把我們重新整合起來。然後，他們一路高歌猛進，在 2025 年達到了 8000 萬美元的水平。

And they're bringing back that expertise on the operating side that will make us better as well. They -- when we decided it would be in the Argonaut, we picked Blue Raven, a subsidiary of SunPower, and we shut down two other manufacturing groups. And now these guys have come in and they're running our manufacturing for direct, which is our biggest part because they took Blue Raven to the next level at their company, Ambia. Also one thing, it may not mean anything to you, but if you're in my business, it's the world, this is cycle time. So what this says is the 50th percentile median cycle time in days for various things.

他們還將把這些營運方面的專業知識帶回來，這將使我們變得更好。當我們決定在 Argonaut 上生產時，我們選擇了 SunPower 的子公司 Blue Raven，並關閉了另外兩個生產集團。現在這些人已經加入進來，他們負責我們直接的生產製造，這是我們最大的部分，因為他們在他們的公司 Ambia 將 Blue Raven 提升到了一個新的水平。還有一件事，這可能對你來說毫無意義，但如果你身處我的產業，也就是全世界，這就是周期時間。所以，這表示的是各種事物的第 50 個百分位中位數週期時間（以天為單位）。

So from the project received to permit submitted, seven days [span] they get out of the blocks. Project received installation complete put it in 41.6 days. And then we go through getting inspection, that's the city to say, okay, you're approved and PTO that has to get the utility to say, okay, you can hook it up. And all of these are exemplary numbers. And what's even better is even their ugliest numbers are pretty good.

因此，從收到專案到提交許可證，他們只需七天就能啟動。項目已接收安裝完畢，耗時 41.6 天。然後我們要經過驗收，也就是市政府說，好的，你們通過了；然後電力公司還要讓公用事業公司說，好的，你們可以接通了。這些都是非常優秀的數字。更棒的是，即使是他們最差的數據也相當不錯。

We won't be have stuff hanging out that didn't get shipped before the end of the quarter. And I'll just point out that this is 15 days faster than SunPower. And in turn, SunPower was faster by weeks than the other two areas that I shut down at the original merger. Okay. What are we trying to do?

我們不會讓未在季度末之前發貨的貨物滯留在倉庫裡。我還要指出，這比 SunPower 快 15 天。反過來，SunPower 的恢復速度比我在最初合併時關閉的另外兩個部門快了好幾週。好的。我們究竟想做什麼？

Zoom up a little bit. The goal is consistently profitable growth from our current $300 million level to $1 billion in 2028. If you do $1 billion divided by $300 million and take it to the [$0.33] power, you get 50% per year. So that means we have to have inorganic growth as well as organic growth to do that. Here's an example from the latest quarter in Q4, we did $88 million profit.

稍微放大一點。我們的目標是持續獲利成長，從目前的 3 億美元成長到 2028 年的 10 億美元。如果將 10 億美元除以 3 億美元，然後取 [0.33] 次方，則每年可獲得 50% 的收益。所以這意味著我們必須同時實現有機成長和無機成長才能做到這一點。以最近一個季度（第四季）為例，我們實現了 8,800 萬美元的利潤。

We now have 111 million shares fully diluted. Our price to sales ratio still sucks, just I told you that earlier, and our share price, when I was finishing the slide this morning and pushed the button on my phone, and that was a number I got. We have a plan. This is like the ninth revision of the second major plan. And here, we're growing to $250 million. That's a $1 billion run rate. We're going to spend some more stock, but not a lot more. We're pretty much acquired what we need to acquire. If our price to sales ratio gets to 1.72, I showed you that calculation earlier, that's 554. That's a three times.

我們現在擁有1.11億股完全稀釋後的股份。我們的市銷率仍然很糟糕，我之前已經告訴過你了。還有我們的股價，今天早上我做完幻燈片的時候，按了一下手機上的按鈕，就得到了這個數字。我們有計劃。這相當於第二個主要計劃的第九次修訂。而在這裡，我們的規模正在成長到 2.5 億美元。這意味著年均收入將達到10億美元。我們打算再添置一些股票，但不會太多。我們基本上已經獲得了我們需要獲得的一切。如果我們的市銷率達到 1.72，我之前已經給你展示過這個計算結果，那就是 554。那是三次。

And that's a bogey for, I'll say, just becoming confident [Vision]. So who will we be, who will care. SunPower will again be recognized as number one in solar by introducing advanced technology hardware and software controlled solar. Now this -- if you have the best hardware, then you're going to get jobs you wouldn't get otherwise. But it's not dominant like the old SunPower had dominant panels that nobody could touch.

而這正是建立自信的一大障礙，我得說。[想像]。那麼，我們將成為什麼樣的人呢？誰又會在乎呢？SunPower將透過推出先進的硬體和軟體控制的太陽能產品，再次成為太陽能產業的領導者。現在，如果你擁有最好的硬件，那麼你就能獲得原本無法獲得的工作機會。但它不像以前的SunPower那樣佔絕對優勢，而以前的SunPower的太陽能板無人能敵。

The new world is going to be software-controlled solar system products, meaning everything is smart, everything has a compatible computer and language and everything is a compatible bus. And that doesn't mean WiFi or any bulls -- radio. It means wires and the cheapest, most important wire to control things that you care about is called CAN Bus. It's the wire that connects your brake pedal. You think it's actually connected your brakes.

新世界將是軟體控制的太陽能係統產品時代，這意味著一切都是智慧的，一切都擁有相容的電腦和語言，一切都是相容的總線。但這並不意味著WiFi或其他亂七八糟的東西——比如無線電。這意味著電線，而控制你所關心的事物的最便宜、最重要的電線叫做 CAN 總線。這是連接煞車踏板的電線。你認為它實際上連接了你的煞車系統。

It's not wire that connects your brake pedal to the calipers on your brake and your steering and [PAM]. So we have ARM computers and CAN Bus that work with everything, meaning the panels themselves as the Enphase inverter, the battery, that's the Enphase battery, which has, by the way, the same inverter in it, and you can run it forward to charge the battery and backwards to discharge the battery and it talks to the other inverters in your panels. And then in the garage, you'll have an EV plug and that EV plug will have the same hardware in it. So your electric car talk to your battery and do what's right for you at that time and your battery can talk to your panels to do what's right and your battery knows when it's high and low price time because that's all downloaded from the cloud in your battery. So software control true systems, not hack together somebody's panels and somebody else's batteries.

連接煞車踏板和煞車卡鉗以及轉向系統的不是電線。[PAM]。所以我們使用了 ARM 計算機和 CAN 總線，它們可以與所有設備配合使用，包括太陽能電池板本身、Enphase 逆變器、電池（這是 Enphase 電池，順便說一下，它內部也裝有相同的逆變器），你可以正向運行它來給電池充電，反向運行它來給電池放電，它也可以與太陽能電池板中的其他電池通訊。然後，在車庫裡，你會看到一個電動車充電樁，而這個電動車充電樁的硬體也與之前的相同。所以你的電動車會和你的電池溝通，並在那個時候做對你來說正確的事情；你的電池也可以和你的太陽能電池板溝通，做正確的事情；你的電池知道什麼時候是電價高的時候，什麼時候是電價低的時候，因為所有這些資訊都從雲端下載到你的電池中。所以軟體控制的是真正的系統，而不是把別人的太陽能板和別人的電池拼湊在一起。

That's the future. So what are we doing about the future? I already told you about the panel. I told you about the bifacial panel. The next level of cell is going to be Perovskite-silicon. I'm on the board of two companies that are working on Perovskite-silicon, not ready yet. That's why I put a warning out here, talked a lot. Then there's Enphase inverters, the IQ8 is the first inverter in the world to allow sunlight backup. If you have no battery because you don't want to afford one now, when the sun rises, it will freeze your freezer for you and your freezer won't melt with a 3-day outage. Just by having a solar system with an inverter.

這就是未來。那麼，我們該如何應對未來呢？我已經跟你說過小組討論的事了。我跟你說過雙面面板的事了。下一代電池將是鈣鈦礦矽電池。我擔任兩家正在研發鈣鈦礦矽的公司的董事，但目前產品尚未問世。所以我才在這裡發出警告，說了這麼多。還有 Enphase 逆變器，IQ8 是世界上第一款支援太陽能備用電源的逆變器。如果你因為現在不想買電池而沒有電池，那麼當太陽升起時，它會幫你把冰箱冷凍起來，這樣即使停電 3 天，你的冰箱也不會融化。只需要一個有逆變器的太陽能係統。

It's not perfect, but it's way better than a normal solar system. Their IQ9 inverter uses gallium nitride and it starts providing high voltage for commercial applications. Gallium nitride transistors instead of silicon transistors. And then there's the electric vehicle, the zero carbon. There, you can tell your system in your cell phone, and this is deployed.

它並不完美，但比普通的太陽係好得多。他們的 IQ9 逆變器採用氮化鎵，可為商業應用提供高電壓。採用氮化鎵晶體管代替矽晶體管。還有電動車，零碳排放。在那裡，你可以告訴你的手機系統，然後它就會被部署。

I want my car to be charged only with solar electrons. But why would you do that? Because if you're green, you live in California, you bought an electric car. And by the way, I can almost throw a rock and get Tesla from where I am right now. You bought your electric car because you didn't want to burn oil.

我希望我的汽車只用太陽能充電。但為什麼要這麼做呢？因為如果你是環保主義者，你住在加州，你就會買一輛電動車。順便說一句，從我現在的位置，我幾乎可以扔塊石頭就到特斯拉。你買電動車是因為你不想燒油。

And then the problem is the electricity you put in your car burned oil or gas in order to make it. But if your electricity comes from the sun, it didn't burn anything for anybody, and you actually start can commute to work in a nice car without using any oil of any kind. And that -- maybe you're not jumping up and down about that, but I guarantee people here in California will jump up about it, and that has just become available like in the last quarter. And then EV battery for backup. The flip side is if I charge your car with green electrons, when will I be able to take those green electrons out of your car and have a massive battery, 10 times bigger than a typical solar battery that I have for free, not always there, but I have for free.

問題在於，你汽車裡用的電，是燒油或燒氣製造出來的。但是，如果你的電力來自太陽能，它就不會消耗任何人的任何東西，而且你實際上可以開著一輛好車去上班，而無需使用任何類型的石油。也許你對此並不感到興奮，但我保證加州的人們會為此感到興奮，而且這項服務在上個季度才剛剛推出。然後還有電動車電池作為備用。另一方面，如果我用綠色電子為你的車充電，我什麼時候才能把這些綠色電子從你的車裡取出來，得到一個巨大的電池，比我免費擁有的普通太陽能電池大 10 倍，雖然它並不總是存在，但它是免費的。

So I'm an R&D guy. So I don't talk about futures. These are [now, no, no, no]. And this is what is going to differentiate us in advanced technology hardware and software control solar system products. This is our plan, the long-range plan is a work in progress.

我是個研發人員。所以我不談期貨。這些都是[現在，不，不，不]而這正是我們在先進技術硬體和軟體控制太陽能係統產品方面脫穎而出的關鍵所在。這是我們的計劃，長遠計劃仍在製定中。

But you can see here, we have three divisions, SunPower Direct, this green is the big one. I told you that earlier. That's all of SunPower, except for Sunder, who sells only contracts, including to inside contracts to our divisions and New Homes, which sells to corporations and also as a procurement management system that can manage other installations where we can get credit for everything by using partners, not internal people. So that is the new organization of SunPower. We just did a $309 million year.

但你可以看到，我們有三個部門，SunPower Direct，這個綠色的是最大的一個。我之前就跟你說過。這就是 SunPower 的所有業務，除了 Sunder，它只銷售合同，包括我們各部門的內部合同和 New Homes，New Homes 向企業銷售，同時也是一個採購管理系統，可以管理其他安裝項目，透過與合作夥伴合作，而不是與內部人員合作，我們可以獲得所有項目的信用。這就是SunPower的新組織架構。我們剛完成了一年的3.09億美元營收。

I haven't promised a word yet about 2026 because I want to find out what's going to happen this quarter. But it's a number looking like that. There's 2027, there's 2028. So this I call, by the way, G stands for God and the implication is if you don't make the plan, the -- falls on you. And I'm the agent of the lord in this particular case to make sure that people believe in the plan.

關於 2026 年的事情，我還沒有做出任何承諾，因為我想先看看本季會發生什麼。但它看起來就是這樣一個數字。有2027年，還有2028年。順便說一句，我把這稱為“G代表上帝”，其含義是，如果你不制定計劃，後果就由你承擔。在這個特殊情況下，我是主的代理人，要確保人們相信這個計劃。

So right up to here, I've made promises to investors, which I consider to be sacred. I want to point out to you that from this point on, we're still modeling and you will see upgrades of this over time. In the plan, I just want to tell you that currently a 4% op inc. This is the quarter where we see 8.1% op inc. And this is a quarter where we see revenue of [$250 million times $4 billion].

所以直到現在，我都對投資人做出了承諾，我認為這些承諾是神聖不可侵犯的。我想向你們指出，從現在開始，我們仍在進行建模，隨著時間的推移，你們將會看到它的升級。在計劃中，我只想告訴你們，目前有 4% 的營運成長。本季我們看到營業額成長了 8.1%。本季我們看到的收入為[2.5億美元乘以40億美元]。

So this is a plan which if executed already can move us into our mission statement, and we're sitting back here all the way back here. One more point, cash, again, telling you where we are. So we have cash in the bank. We have an ELOC to feed the cash in the bank. We have made a promise to investors that we're going to have minimum cash of $10 million.

所以，如果這項計畫能夠順利執行，就能幫助我們實現使命宣言，而我們現在卻還停留在原地。還有一點，現金，再次告訴你我們身在何處。所以我們銀行有現金。我們有一筆電子信用額度來補充銀行存款。我們向投資者承諾，我們將擁有至少 1000 萬美元的現金。

That means if we have to raise cash in the quarter, we'll raise it to $10 million in stock or if we have cash flow positive, cash will go above $10 million. So this is what our plan looks like. This is the quarter last quarter people freaked out about the low level of cash. We're back at the $10 million, and this is in Q4 of this year, our plan says we're going to be cash flow positive from operations and fund the thing. In order to keep this up, this is being supported, we have two raises $17 in this quarter and $29 million in this quarter.

這意味著，如果我們需要在本季籌集資金，我們將以股票的形式籌集 1,000 萬美元；或者，如果我們有正現金流，現金將超過 1,000 萬美元。這就是我們的計劃。這是上個季度，當時人們因為現金流緊張而感到恐慌。我們現在又回到了 1000 萬美元的目標，而且這是今年第四季度，我們的計劃是營運現金流為正，並為該項目提供資金。為了維持這種勢頭，我們得到了支持，本季我們進行了兩次融資，分別為 1700 萬美元和 2900 萬美元。

So that is our cash need to cash flow positive to -- [$46 million]. I just out understand that, I think. Okay. Next quarter is going to be $84 million, it will be our second best ever quarter. We're going to be down "only 4%." We expect the industry to be at least 10% and maybe 15% or maybe even more down.

所以，這就是我們實現正現金流所需的現金需求。——[4600萬美元]。我覺得我不太明白。好的。下個季度營收將達到 8,400 萬美元，這將是我們有史以來第二好的季度業績。我們只會下跌“4%”。我們預計該行業至少會下降 10%，甚至可能下降 15% 或更多。

So we expect to gain share. We're going to have operating profit, and we're going to have that for every quarter. That's our expectation. I didn't promise every quarter of 2026. I noticed I didn't put my lawyer -- in that sense. Cash. We have a vehicle now to keep cash above $10 million and three more deals pending, which you'll be hearing about this quarter as we finalize it. That's it. Ready for questions.

因此我們預期會獲得市場份額。我們將實現營業利潤，而且每季都會實現。這是我們的預期。我沒有承諾2026年的每季。我注意到我沒有提到我的律師——從這個意義上講。現金。我們現在有辦法保持現金超過 1000 萬美元，還有三筆交易正在洽談中，我們將在本季度完成這些交易後向大家匯報。就是這樣。準備好回答問題。

We will now begin our Q&A session. (Event Instructions) Our first question today comes from the line of Derek Soderberg at Cantor Fitzgerald.

現在開始問答環節。（活動說明）我們今天的第一個問題來自 Cantor Fitzgerald 的 Derek Soderberg。

Yeah, hey guys, thanks for taking the questions. So T.J. You just touched on your vision for becoming an advanced technology solar company with software controlled systems. I guess from the investors' perspective, why is this the most sustainable, profitable model for resi solar and commercial? And what's sort of the most exciting part of the business as things have sort of come together on the sales front and the hardware front? What's the most exciting part of the model as the business sort of comes together here?

嗨，各位，謝謝你們回答問題。T.J.，你剛才提到了你希望成為一家擁有軟體控制系統的先進技術太陽能公司的願景。我想從投資人的角度來看，為什麼這是住宅太陽能和商業太陽能最永續、最賺錢的模式？當銷售和硬體方面都取得進展後，這項業務最令人興奮的部分是什麼？隨著業務的逐步整合，這種模式最令人興奮的部分是什麼？

That's a really good question. I had an analyst, a really well-respected analyst the other day asked me, why do we need a national company? Why don't guys and pickup trucks in different cities in the United States, why can't they be solar? And the answer is if all solar is driving to your house and installing something, anything, aluminum siding, then you don't need a national company. But these systems I just talked about, think about the intelligence of a system required to know what the weather is, to know whether to use or store current, to know whether or not to store current or charge your car or both and to change that as the cloud goes across the sun.

這真是個好問題。前幾天，一位備受尊敬的分析師問我，為什麼我們需要一家全國性公司？為什麼美國不同城市的男士和皮卡車不能使用太陽能？答案是，如果所有太陽能公司都只是開車到你家安裝一些東西，即使是鋁製壁板，那麼你就不需要一家全國性的公司了。但是，我剛才提到的這些系統，想想一個系統需要具備的智能，它要知道天氣如何，知道是使用還是儲存電流，知道是儲存電流還是給汽車充電，或者兩者都做，並且隨著雲層遮擋太陽而改變這些。

Guys can pickup trucks aren't going to do that. That's hard. And if you look, the basic thing is Enphase inverter, it looks like a VHS tapes that thick and this big. And the intelligence in that and the hundreds of man years of time in creating it mean that the other guys can't copy it. It goes back -- [SunPower] enjoyed an advantage with the most efficient solar panels in the world.

那些開皮卡車的人可做不到這一點。那很難。如果你仔細觀察，你會發現它的基本部件是 Enphase 逆變器，它看起來就像一盤這麼厚這麼大的 VHS 錄影帶。而且，其中蘊含的智慧以及數百人年的創造時間意味著其他人無法複製它。這要追溯到——[SunPower] 擁有世界上最高效的太陽能電池板，因此享有優勢。

And they had that for decades. And then it went away because [China Inc.] We had an automatic line in 2002. [China Inc.] then started automatic lines later and they went through eight generations of automatic lines, now they're caught up. So now a panel, which is itself an engineering work of our after two decades and a huge amount of investment has become something [new] is commodity. Cars are commodities, and they're amazing in their engineering anyway.

他們擁有這種情況長達幾十年。然後它就消失了，因為 [中國公司] 我們在 2002 年就有了自動化生產線。 [中國公司] 後來也開始生產自動化生產線，他們經歷了八代自動化生產線，現在他們趕上了。所以現在，一個面板，它本身是我們經過二十年和大量投資的工程成果，已經變成了一種[新的]商品。汽車是商品，但它們的工程設計仍然令人驚嘆。

So systems, we all know that investors like software companies. We all know -- give you one example. Hawaii has got different rules in California than Massachusetts for what you have to do in various solar events when you hook up just an ordinary solar system. What do you do about that? The answer is we download -- Enphase downloads a program into their system that not only puts you in Hawaii, but keeps up with the Hawaii legislature every time they change it and only other venues for it.

所以，我們都知道投資人喜歡軟體公司。我們都知道——舉個例子。對於在各種太陽能事件中連接普通太陽能係統時需要採取的措施，夏威夷和加利福尼亞州的規定與馬薩諸塞州的規定不同。你對此有何應對措施？答案是，我們下載——Enphase 會將一個程式下載到他們的系統中，該程式不僅能讓你身處夏威夷，還能隨時跟進夏威夷立法機構的每一次變更，以及其他相關場所。

So it's that kind of best of facility where you're writing software for given hardware. And then you have the best hardware, too. I'm not knocking that, that will differentiate. And that's why you need a national company because only a national company can be big enough to afford that -- to have partnerships that matter and afford that kind of effort.

所以，這就像是最好的設施，你為給定的硬體編寫軟體。而且你們還擁有最好的硬體。我並不是貶低它，那會使其與眾不同。所以你需要一家全國性公司，因為只有全國性公司才有足夠的規模來承擔這樣的成本——建立重要的合作關係，並投入這樣的精力。

T.J., who's going to be facilitating the software piece of the business? You had mentioned that a few times today. It feels like there's an opportunity there for you guys now that you guys have a full hardware offering, nationwide sales team. Can you upsell software? Can you be a part of the recurring piece of the business?

T.J.，誰將負責公司軟體方面的工作？你今天已經提過好幾次了。感覺現在你們有了全套硬體產品和遍布全國的銷售團隊，這對你們來說是一個機會。你能追加銷售軟體嗎？您能否參與這項業務的經常性支出？

Is there a software angle to this at all?

這件事跟軟體方面有關係嗎？

Sure. Do I have a software group first of all, I'm not a software guy. I have dozens of software guys, but I don't think I have a group to create the vision I just described. So right now, we can't make panels, but our partner, [RAC] is world-class at it. We can't do software systems.

當然。首先，我有沒有軟體團隊？我不是搞軟體的。我手下有幾十個軟體工程師，但我認為我沒有一個團隊能夠實現我剛才所描述的願景。所以現在我們自己還不能生產面板，但是我們的合作夥伴 [RAC] 在這方面是世界一流的。我們做不了軟體系統。

We certainly can program and install them and define them. We can't do that right now in our partners' Enphase. So partnerships at our level matter. And I think if you look at any industry, Boeing doesn't make jet engines. Somebody else Pratt & Whitney, for example, Rolls-Royce makes jet engines.

我們當然可以對它們進行程式設計、安裝和定義。目前我們還無法在合作夥伴的 Enphase 系統中實現這一點。因此，我們在這個層面的合作至關重要。我認為，如果你看看任何一個產業，波音公司都不生產噴射引擎。例如，普惠公司和勞斯萊斯公司等其他公司生產噴射引擎。

It becomes very hard to do it and you partner. And that's what we're going to do, but we're going to be cognizant. We're cognizant today of what you have to do.

這樣會變得非常困難，你的伴侶也會遇到困難。這就是我們要做的事情，但我們會保持清醒的頭腦。我們今天很清楚你必須做什麼。

Got it. That's helpful. A couple of clarifying questions. The $84 million guidance with $4 million of uncertainty, is the way to interpret that as $80 million of high likelihood revenue with $4 million that's uncertain? Or is the $4 million potential upside to guidance?

知道了。那很有幫助。幾個需要澄清的問題。8400萬美元的預期收入，加上400萬美元的不確定性，是否可以理解為8000萬美元的高機率收入和400萬美元的不確定性收入？或者，這 400 萬美元的潛在成長空間是否符合預期？

So I feel like there's a little box being put here and then another little box being put here and then I'm starting to look up and there's a little lid going on there. I'll be honest with you, that number 84, I invented that number the other day, so I could be sure of it. And then I checked with the people and they said, we can be sure of it, and it's a little bit less than our actual internal plan, which will determine their bonus.

我覺得就像這裡放了一個小盒子，然後這裡又放了一個小盒子，然後我抬頭一看，發現那裡蓋了一個小蓋子。說實話，84這個數字是我前幾天編造出來的，這樣我才能確定它的準確性。然後我向相關人員確認，他們說，我們可以肯定，這比我們實際的內部計劃略少一些，而內部計劃將決定他們的獎金。

Got it. Got it. And then on operating expenses, they were up 41% sequentially on a GAAP basis. What was the reason for this growth? Was there kind of onetime stuff associated with you guys going out and selling some of that backlog?

知道了。知道了。然後，以美國通用會計準則計算，營運費用較上季增加了 41%。這種成長的原因是什麼？你們有沒有做過一些一次性的事情，例如把積壓的訂單賣掉？

Can you help us understand maybe looking forward, where we should sort of expect the operating expense run rate to be kind of in Q1, Q2? Anything to help us kind of model that for '26?

能否幫助我們了解一下，展望未來，我們應該大致預期第一季和第二季的營運費用運行率會是多少？有什麼方法可以幫助我們為 2026 年的情況建立模型嗎？

Okay. Our operating expenses are not emphatically up as much as you just said. You said they're up on a GAAP basis. Well, what the hell does that mean, okay? -- up from 35% to 49%. I showed you our OpEx less commission is flat, almost flat.

好的。我們的營運費用並沒有像您剛才說的那樣大幅上漲。你說它們按照公認會計準則（GAAP）計算是上漲的。那到底是什麼意思呢？ ——從 35% 上升到 49%。我已向您展示了我們的營運成本（扣除佣金後）基本持平，或者說幾乎持平。

It's 8.5% quarter-on-quarter. The difference is shown here. It's one GAAP -- non-GAAP thing I show. The OpEx has stock compensation built into it. So when you report OpEx, your people cost so much.

環比增長8.5%。差異如下圖所示。這是我展示的一個GAAP與非GAAP方面的問題。營運支出中包含了股票補償機制。所以，在報告營運支出時，人員成本會非常高。

And do you cost what you pay them plus their benefits? Or does it cost what you pay them plus their benefits plus the cost of their stock option is it best. I have a name called SunPower. I thought I bought it at a bankruptcy option in Delaware. It turns out once I bought it, then I got told you got to put it on your books and depreciate it.

你的成本是否等於你支付給他們的薪水加上他們的福利？或者，最好的方法是支付給他們的工資加上他們的福利加上他們的股票選擇權成本。我的名字叫SunPower。我以為我是透過德拉瓦州的破產選擇權買下它的。結果發現，買下它之後，我才知道必須把它記入帳簿併提列折舊。

So I lose money every quarter because I have the name SunPower, et cetera. If you want to look at OpEx, look at that line right there. I also take out commission because commission -- commissions is like 30 -- best case I've ever seen is 26%, and I've seen as high as 36%. So if you want to look at OpEx, you subtract out commission, you subtract out intangibles like I have been describing, and that's the real OpEx, and that's under tight control. I review our headcount twice a week, and there is no slop there, no onetime events or anything. There's distortion in accounting mandated by law.

所以，因為我用了SunPower這個名字等等，我每季都在賠錢。如果你想查看營運成本，就看那一行。我還要扣除佣金，因為佣金——佣金高達 30%——我見過最好的情況是 26%，我見過最高的是 36%。所以，如果你想查看營運支出，你需要扣除佣金，扣除我一直在描述的無形成本，這才是真正的營運支出，而且這部分支出得到了嚴格控制。我每週檢查兩次員工人數，人數統計非常準確，沒有任何人為因素，也沒有任何一次性事件或其他問題。法律強制規定的會計制度有扭曲現象。

Got it. That's helpful. And my last question, T.J., the silver price has been going up. That's a key component in solar panels. There's some concern on potentially physical supply. Do you view that as a risk for the industry?

知道了。那很有幫助。T.J.，我的最後一個問題是，白銀價格一直在上漲。這是太陽能電池板的關鍵部件。人們對潛在的實物供應存在一些擔憂。你認為這對產業來說是一個風險嗎？

No, I think panels will be a washing panel. So I didn't buy any safe harbor panels, and we had a little squeaker there at the end of the year because everybody was scrambling to buy solar panels, so they could tack a couple of them up on houses here and there and then declare that they still got the subsidy. So they were running their company by buying excess inventory that they didn't need because of a government distortion in the market. That's what I mean by three markets. That's one example.

不，我認為面板會是一個洗滌面板。所以我沒有購買任何安全港面板，結果年底的時候出現了一點小麻煩，因為每個人都爭先恐後地購買太陽能電池板，這樣他們就可以零零散散地在房子上安裝幾個，然後宣稱他們仍然可以獲得補貼。因此，由於政府對市場的扭曲，他們透過購買自己不需要的過剩庫存來經營公司。這就是我所說的三個市場。這是一個例子。

So we didn't do that. So right now, everybody bought all those panels and they're sitting all over --. The fact is later in the year for my economy system, the lowest cost system, I plan on buying those panels at a steep discount to the guys that are listening to the depreciation clock in their warehouse as the panels are worth less and less over time. There are dozens, literally dozens of panel plants being built in the United States. As we speak, there's already a bunch of -- so to get by the tariffs, many of the Asian companies have -- they'll make their solar cells offshore.

所以我們沒有那樣做。所以現在，大家都買了那些面板，它們到處堆放著。——。事實上，今年晚些時候，我計劃以極低的價格從那些在倉庫裡等著看折舊時鐘的人手中購買我的經濟型系統（成本最低的系統）的太陽能電池板，因為隨著時間的推移，這些太陽能電池板的價值會越來越低。美國正在建造數十家，真的是數十家。就在我們說話的時候，已經有很多——為了規避關稅，許多亞洲公司——他們會在海外生產太陽能電池。

They'll import solar cells much lighter, much smaller air freight come in fast and then put them in panels, heavy, big machines in the United States. And there's way more of those plants being created right now. The panel business is a no-profit zone. You do not want to be involved with it. You want to be taking advantage of the excess of supply. And that is we're already there this quarter, there will be an excess of supply.

他們將進口更輕、更小的太陽能電池，空運速度很快，然後在美國用笨重的大型機器將它們組裝成面板。而且現在這類植物的產量還在增加中。面板業務屬於非營利領域。你不想捲入其中。你想利用供應過剩的優勢。也就是說，本季我們已經面臨供應過剩的問題。

God, well, that's all the questions for me. Congrats on the results, guys. I'll hop back in the queue.

天哪，這就是我所有的問題了。恭喜各位取得好成績！我重新排隊。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Gus Richard, Northland.

格斯·理查德，北地。

Yes, thanks for taking the questions. I was just curious how you guys are doing converting Sunder sales into installs and sort of where that is and what you think the trajectory will look like?

是的，謝謝你回答這些問題。我只是好奇你們是如何將 Sunder 的銷售額轉化為安裝量的，目前進展如何，以及你們認為未來的發展趨勢會是什麼樣的？

Can you say that one more time? I'm not sure I got it.

你能再說一次嗎？我不太確定我理解了。

So I was wondering how you're doing on converting the Sunder sales into installations and what that trajectory might look like?

所以我想知道你們在將 Sunder 的銷售額轉化為實際安裝量方面進展如何，以及未來的發展趨勢會是怎樣的？

You guys wanted to, can I help? Yeah.

你們想幫忙嗎？我能幫上忙嗎？是的。

Hey guys, we've got two positives going on with Sunder right now. First off is their fundamental 1099 force that they brought us in, in late September has moved up dramatically in total bookings. Secondly, T.J. was telling me about five weeks ago that we brought in about 350 Purolite guys. We brought them in at the very, very end of 2025, and we've been expanding in 2026.

嘿，夥計們，目前桑德爾方面有兩個好消息。首先是他們9月下旬引進的基本1099員工隊伍，他們的總預訂量已經大幅上升。其次，大約五週前，T.J. 告訴我，我們引進了大約 350 名 Purolite 員工。我們在 2025 年底引進了他們，並在 2026 年進行了擴張。

Those guys have already produced significant bookings in the first four weeks, we have over 100 strong bookings. We have another 350 that are in the front end of the booking channel. The way it looks for us right now with Sunder is that we're going to have a larger revenue than we currently are forecast as a result of the rapid expansion in 1099 sales force at Sunder. So we're very pleased with that part of residential retrofit. That's working very good for us.

短短四周內，他們就獲得了大量的預訂，我們已經有超過 100 個強勁的預訂。我們還有另外 350 個位於預訂管道的前端。目前來看，由於 Sunder 的 1099 銷售團隊迅速擴張，我們的收入將比目前預測的要高。所以我們對住宅改造的這一部分非常滿意。這對我們來說效果非常好。

So let me -- this is a controversial issue, which I talk about five days a week. And the reason Eric Nielsen is a better VP of Sales and T.J. Rodgers or his whoever your points is that Eric understands these guys the 1099s and I don't. And I'm a bit of a do what's right for the company, do it with disciplined kind of guy. But in order to keep the 1099s, Eric gives them a work environment that they appreciate.

所以讓我來談談——這是一個有爭議的話題，我每周有五天都在談論它。埃里克·尼爾森之所以比T.J.羅傑斯或他其他任何人更適合擔任銷售副總裁，是因為埃里克了解這些1099表格的填寫者，而我不了解。我有點像那種會做對公司有利的事情，而且做事嚴謹的人。但為了留住這些 1099 表格的員工，艾瑞克為他們提供了一個他們喜歡的工作環境。

And I supported that with stock, but there's other things. And one of the things they get is they get to poke whatever button they want for which EPC that is installer gets a job, okay? Right now, they can poke 26 buttons. SunPower Direct us 27 button, SunPower Direct us, SunPower New Homes us and then 25 EPCs that are literally our competitors. And I can tell you right now -- and then how do they do it?

我用股票支持了這一點，但還有其他因素。其中一項權利是，他們可以隨意按下按鈕，決定哪個EPC安裝商能獲得工作，明白嗎？現在，他們可以按26個按鈕。SunPower Direct us 27 按鈕，SunPower Direct us，SunPower New Homes us，然後是 25 個 EPC，它們實際上是我們的競爭對手。我現在就可以告訴你──他們是怎麼做到的？

It's real simple. They keep poking the button until they see the biggest number, then they poke that one, and they're not forced to give the job to mom. So right now, the results are good, and I agree with Dan, and I agree with the upside. Right now, I'll tell you that the contribution of Sunder directly to SunPower is single-digit percent, mid-single-digit percent and it's on its way to 35% over the year. How do we do it?

很簡單。他們不停地按下按鈕，直到看到最大的數字，然後就按那個數字，這樣他們就不會被迫把工作交給媽媽了。所以目前來看，結果不錯，我同意丹的看法，也同意前景光明。目前我可以告訴你，Sunder 對 SunPower 的直接貢獻是百分之幾，百分之幾中，但今年有望達到 35%。我們該怎麼做？

Why -- first of all, why don't they do it? The answer is if T.J. sends out and marathon says, do this, then they go away. So T.J. doesn't do that, and he lets Eric run the show.

首先，為什麼他們不這麼做？答案是，如果 T.J. 發出指令，馬拉松方面說，那就這樣做，然後他們就會離開。所以T.J.沒有那樣做，而是讓艾瑞克全權負責。

Why don't they do it? Well, you saw that map. That map went from a strike to the United States. Well, guess what? They now sell in places we can't install.

他們為什麼不這麼做？你看到了那張地圖。那張地圖從罷工地點變成了美國。你猜怎麼著？現在他們的產品銷往我們無法安裝的地方。

We never had installation there. So we've got to build up some install over time and start taking jobs in states away from the local guys that they give the job to. Flip side is also tree. We have installers in some states where they can't supply all of the jobs. And they're now working on building up the sales force in states where they have jobs.

我們從未在那裡進行過安裝。所以我們必須逐步累積安裝量，並開始從當地承包商手中搶走其他州的工程項目。背面也是一棵樹。我們在某些​​州有安裝人員，但他們無法完成所有的安裝工作。他們現在正努力在有工作崗位的州擴充銷售團隊。

So we're like building a roof and a floor that don't overlap right now and will overlap. And that will raise a percent over time. So the good news is our results don't depend on yet huge fall-through. Where is it going at the end of the year? 50% will go either to direct or to new homes.

所以我們就像在建造屋頂和地板，它們現在互不重疊，但將來會重疊。隨著時間的推移，這個數字會上升一定百分比。所以好消息是，我們的結果並不取決於巨大的損失。年底它會去哪裡？50%的資金將直接用於購買新房子或用於建造新房子。

So that's the ever supply of orders that I'm talking about that will keep those organizations level loaded all year long.

這就是我所說的源源不絕的訂單，它將使這些組織全年保持充足的訂單量。

And finally, just the Purolite acquisition of 1099s moved us, expanded us into states where even Sunder wasn't particularly strong after the acquisition. An example of that is the Northeast and in particular, the Oregon territory. Those are target rich for TPOs. We were fair encouraged there. And now with the Purolite sales guys, we are very, very strong. So I'm feeling very good about retro residential sales and retro residential bookings for 2026.

最後，Purolite 收購 1099 表格業務，推動我們業務拓展到一些即使在收購之後 Sunder 也並非特別強大的州。美國東北部地區，特別是俄勒岡州一帶，就是一個例子。這些是TPO（轉投業者）的理想目標。我們在那裡受到了相當大的鼓舞。現在有了 Purolite 的銷售人員，我們的實力非常非常強大。所以我對 2026 年的復古住宅銷售和預訂情況感到非常樂觀。

You talked -- I talked about the original SunPower sales force declining partly due to bankruptcy. It's also partly due to the fact that the original SunPower sales force sold a lot in the Midwest and in the Midwest guys are like me, they write a check, they get it, they own it and they get all the savings of the power from day 1, and they're paid back a lot earlier. That's not true in California, third party ownerships and finance company comes then, press the deal, makes money on the money. So their money comes in and they've got to make higher percentage. But my pitch for a loan or cash is here's the calculation.

你談到了——我談到了SunPower最初的銷售團隊人數減少，部分原因是由於破產。部分原因還在於，SunPower 最初的銷售團隊在中西部地區做了很多銷售，而中西部地區的銷售人員和我一樣，他們開支票，拿到貨，擁有所有權，從第一天起就能享受所有電力節省，而且他們很快就能收回成本。加州的情況並非如此，第三方所有權和金融公司會介入，促成交易，從中獲利。所以他們的資金投入進來後，就必須獲得更高的利潤率。但我申請貸款或現金的理由是這樣的：這是計算過程。

If you pay this much cash, utility bill will go down next quarter like that and you start adding up utility bills over time within 4.7 years, 5.3 years, whatever, the sum of your savings on utilities will be more than what you pay, okay? and that's the pitch that T.J. would buy. Pitch in California is more California. Oh, you can have solar.

如果你付這麼多現金，下個季度的水電費就會像這樣下降，然後你再慢慢累積，4.7 年、5.3 年，或者更久，你節省的水電費總額就會超過你支付的金額，懂嗎？而這正是T.J.會接受的說法。加州的球場更有加州特色。哦，你可以安裝太陽能。

Sure. We'll put it on your house. We'll do it for free, no money out of your pocket. And then by the way, we'll pay your first few payments for you. And then all you do is pay payments.

當然。我們會把它放在你家房子上。我們將免費為您提供這項服務，您無需支付任何費用。順便說一句，我們會替你支付前幾期款項。然後你只需要支付款項。

And by the way, there's a calculation showing your payment with solar will be less than you would have paid anyway. So there'll be no money out of pocket to begin with, and you'll be ahead every month after that. If you like some solar. And that's a switch to TPO, third-party ownership or a financing company or another solar company like [Sunder] owns the system and has an intent to make money on money. That -- and that was what was wrong, not wrong.

順便說一句，有一項計算表明，使用太陽能後，您的付款將比您原本需要支付的費用更少。所以一開始你不需要自己掏錢，之後每個月都會省錢。如果你喜歡太陽能的話。這意味著要轉向 TPO（第三方所有權），或者像 [Sunder] 這樣的融資公司或其他太陽能公司擁有該系統，並意圖從中賺錢。那——那才是錯的，而不是錯的。

That's what is a difficult change. It sounds like, okay, sell this one, not that one. The pitches are quite similar. You're knocking on the same doors. It turns out it's not a trivial change.

這就是難以改變的地方。聽起來好像是，好吧，賣掉這個，別賣那個。這兩個球場的投球風格非常相似。你們敲的都是同一扇門。事實證明，這並不是一個微不足道的改變。

And [SunPower] sales force had issues with that. And these new sales forces we acquired are TPO-friendly sales forces. They were already there. Those companies became big and famous because they saw the TPO thing before we did, and they were already there. Now we're working together.

[SunPower] 銷售團隊對此有疑問。我們新收購的這些銷售團隊都是對第三方採購組織（TPO）友善的銷售團隊。他們當時已經在那兒了。這些公司之所以能成長並聲名鵲起，是因為他們比我們更早看到了TPO（第三方支付組織）的概念，並且他們已經佔據了這一領域。現在我們正在一起工作。

Okay. Got it. And then just on Cobalt, I just want to make sure I'm clear. It sounded like you do utility scale and industrial size installations, you mentioned data centers. And I'm just wondering sort of how do I think about the markets you address ready industrial, utility scale and kind of how big a system kind of sold at this point --

好的。知道了。然後，關於 Cobalt，我只想確認我的理解是否正確。聽起來你們做的是公用事業規模和工業規模的安裝項目，你提到了資料中心。我只是想知道，對於你們所針對的市場，例如工業規模、公用事業規模以及目前銷售的系統規模，我該如何看待？--

Go ahead.

前進。

Sure. Well, we've been limited because we are a small private company, but we have the expertise and we have the execution history of installing multiple megawatts. We've installed 12 megawatts in Port of Stockton. We've installed -- we're installing right now, just finished up a 1.4-megawatt project in Santa Clara University. Those three phases at a superstructure carport.

當然。嗯，因為我們是一家小型私人公司，所以發展受到了一些限制，但我們擁有專業知識，並且有安裝數兆瓦電力系統的執行經驗。我們在斯托克頓港安裝了12兆瓦的電力。我們已經安裝完畢——我們現在正在安裝——剛剛在聖克拉拉大學完成了一個 1.4 兆瓦的項目。上部結構車棚的這三個階段。

We're just finishing up the Los Altos Golf and Country Club, that's got ground mount. It's got a carport structure, and it's also got on the main club house. So we have the expertise to install systems with complicated voltage requirements, step up, step down, switch gears, modifications, and we do all that in-house. So we have the in-house expertise and the technical expertise to do it. We just haven't had the market capitalization to grow that across the country. And now with a publicly traded company behind us, we can achieve excellence and execution at scale.

我們剛剛完成了洛斯阿爾托斯高爾夫鄉村俱樂部的項目，該項目採用地面安裝方式。它有一個車棚結構，而且與主會所相連。因此，我們擁有安裝具有複雜電壓要求、升壓、降壓、開關設備、改造等功能的系統的專業知識，而且所有這些工作都是我們公司內部完成的。因此，我們擁有完成這項工作的內部專業知識和技術專長。我們只是還沒有足夠的市值在全國範圍內發展壯大。現在有了上市公司的支持，我們可以大規模地實現卓越和高效執行。

Got it. Thanks so much. That's it for me.

知道了。非常感謝。就這些了。

And for me, we're in Silicon Valley right now, and I'm a Silicon Valley guy. And one of the things I missed a lot with the sort of standard solar mindset is that it's becoming commoditized. Like I said, it could be aluminum side and all of a sudden, engineering matters again, scale matters again. The plans you have to -- guess what? The plans I submit in Austin, Texas to put five kilowatts on your house are pro forma.

對我來說，我們現在身處矽谷，我就是矽谷人。而我一直以來對太陽能產業標準思維方式的誤解之一，就是它正在走向商品化。就像我說的，可能是鋁材部分，突然之間，工程設計又變得重要起來，規模又變得重要。你的計劃是──猜猜看？我在德州奧斯汀提交的在你家安裝 5 千瓦電力的方案只是形式上的。

As a matter of fact, many of the planning commissions actually now have online and you can even do 1-day planning. In Palo Alto, California, if you want to put in a megawatt of solar, you're dealing with the city of Palo Alto, a formidable task, I'll just tell you. And that means you have a capability that is beyond what you had before and you can study it and understand it, marketing. I just said it. I just watched their marketing.

事實上，許多規劃委員會現在都提供線上服務，甚至可以進行一日規劃。在加州帕洛阿爾托，如果你想安裝一兆瓦的太陽能發電系統，你就得和帕洛阿爾托市政府打交道，這是一項艱鉅的任務，我只能告訴你。這意味著你擁有了以前不具備的能力，你可以學習和理解行銷。我剛才已經說了。我剛剛看了他們的行銷影片。

And I'm going to start sending groups. I've got young marketing guys in Salt Lake. I'm going to start sending groups to three or four of them through the marketing guy. It turns out during the summer, he used to do movies down in Southern California at UFC to make money. And he knows how to do movies.

我打算開始發送群組訊息。我在鹽湖城有一些年輕的行銷人員。我打算透過行銷部的同事開始向其中三、四個人發送群組訊息。原來，夏天的時候，他會在南加州的UFC拍電影賺錢。而且他很懂得拍電影。

He knows how to do ads and his group is the size of one guy. We're going to learn from that. And they're going to learn from us. We're going to have a lot more panels flowing. So when we negotiate the price of the panels, we're going to be looking like a volume company, not like a company that is local and modest in volume. The answer is I don't know the synergies yet, but I study and watch things and I'm not jerking around either side, and I'll optimize as I see what's the best way to go.

他很懂廣告，但他的團隊只有他一個人。我們會從中學到教訓。他們會向我們學習。我們將會有更多面板投入使用。所以，當我們協商太陽能板的價格時，我們會看起來像一家大型公司，而不是一家規模較小、在地化的公司。答案是，我還不清楚其中的協同效應，但我會研究和觀察，不會在兩邊搖擺不定，我會根據實際情況進行優化，找到最佳方案。

Gus left the line. We do have a couple of quick ones from the online audience. I'll start off with one quick one for me, asking about our conference schedule for 1Q, just so everyone is aware. We will be at the Jefferies Power, Utilities and Clean Energy Conference in March, the first week of March in New York City. March 11 in New York City, we will be attending the Cantor Technology and Industrials Conference.

格斯離開了隊伍。我們這裡有一些來自網路觀眾的簡短提問。我先問一個我自己的問題，關於我們第一季的會議安排，好讓大家都了解一下。我們將於三月的第一周在紐約市參加傑富瑞電力、公用事業和清潔能源大會。3月11日，我們將在紐約市參加康托技術與工業大會。

And then on March 12, we will be involved in the virtual Canaccord's Sustainability Summit. In addition, we'll be doing some NDRs and fireside chat. So please reach out if you have any questions about scheduling. One quick question from the line. You've discussed New Homes progress, which will be material to growth in 2027 and forward. Can you discuss the progress on rebuilding that pipeline today?

然後，在 3 月 12 日，我們將參加 Canaccord 的線上永續發展高峰會。此外，我們也會進行一些 NDR 節目和爐邊談話。如果您對日程安排有任何疑問，請隨時與我們聯繫。一位觀眾提問。您討論了新房屋建設的進展，這將對 2027 年及以後的成長產生實質影響。今天能否談談重建該輸油管的進展？

Okay. So -- [for many guests] it is -- so we have the VP of that division here. This is the 3-year plan quarterly plan I showed you and New Homes is here in blue. So if you look at New Homes, they are going -- problems right now because it usually -- to be minimum in Q1 and then build back up so and that is because when -- SunPower will bankrupt, all of the corporations -- quarter. They all canceled their contracts and that was it and we started rebuilding. So what's your plan, got to get in, right?

好的。所以——（對很多客人來說）是這樣——所以我們請到了該部門的副總裁。這是我之前給你看的三年季度計劃，新房部分用藍色標示。所以，如果你看看新房市場，它們現在正面臨問題，因為通常情況下，第一季會降至最低點，然後才會恢復成長，這是因為當 SunPower 破產時，所有公司都會受到影響。他們都取消了合同，事情就是這樣，我們開始重建。所以你的計劃是什麼？肯定得進去，對吧？

So today we are set up for 2026 to regain share going from about $45 million in our bookings, which converts at about 97% rate to growing to about $110 million in 2026. This gets us back to the [20, 22.3] average rate of about $125 million a year. And in addition to that, we are also partnering with additional dealers who are engaged -- working with other companies. So we are accelerating in New Homes. We are also accelerating in multifamily, which Cobalt is going to add to that portfolio, including our C&I space. So the New Homes business is feeling very confident about what we're going to deliver in '26, establishing a very clear fillet, another layer on top of our total SunPower revenue in a proper fashion.

因此，我們今天已做好準備，迎接 2026 年的到來，以期從目前的約 4500 萬美元預訂額（轉換率約為 97%）增長到 2026 年的約 1.1 億美元，從而重新奪回市場份額。這樣我們就回到了[20, 22.3] 平均水平，即每年約 1.25 億美元。除此之外，我們也與其他經銷商合作，他們也參與其中——與其他公司合作。因此，我們在新房屋建設方面正在加速發展。我們也正在加速發展多戶住宅業務，Cobalt 將把多戶住宅業務（包括我們的工商業房地產）納入我們的投資組合。因此，新房業務對我們2026年將要實現的目標非常有信心，我們將建立一個非常清晰的框架，以適當的方式在我們的SunPower總收入之上再增加一層。

Can I add just a little bit of color to that? So as -- said, our plan is over $110 million in bookings this year, up from $40-plus million last year in 2025. Remember, there's a 5- to 6-quarter lag between bookings and revenue in New Homes. So the numbers you see us booking right now are going to be reflected in very strong revenue growth in 2027. On top of that, our pipeline, our opportunity pipeline has grown nicely as we continue to expand our sales organization in New Homes, and we're feeling more and more comfortable as the quarters go on of our ability to meet and beat that $110 million.

我可以給它加一點顏色嗎？正如之前所說，我們的計劃是今年預訂超​​過 1.1 億美元，高於去年的 4,000 多萬美元，到 2025 年實現這一目標。請記住，新房預訂量和收入之間存在 5 到 6 個季度的滯後。因此，您現在看到的預訂量將在 2027 年轉化為非常強勁的收入成長。除此之外，隨著我們在新房銷售領域的不斷擴張，我們的銷售管道和機會管道也穩步增長，隨著季度的推進，我們越來越有信心達到甚至超過 1.1 億美元的目標。

Finally, you may want to ask yourself, what was your all-time best numbers in New Homes back when the old SunPower was around. And I believe -- in the neighborhood of $50 million to $60 million quarters. So if you want to think about what the upper end of what you can accomplish once you rebuild your new home organization, think in terms of $50 million to $60 million quarters as opposed to the $10 million quarters we did this year and the $25 million quarters we're currently on track for $30 million quarters we're on track for in 2027.

最後，你可能想問問自己，在老 SunPower 還在的時候，你在新房銷售方面取得的最佳成績是多少。我相信——每季價值在 5,000 萬到 6,000 萬美元左右。所以，如果你想思考重建新的家庭組織後你能取得的最大成就，那就想想每季 5000 萬到 6000 萬美元的業績，而不是我們今年每季 1000 萬美元的業績，也不是我們目前正朝著每季 2500 萬美元的目標前進，更不是我們 2027 年每季 3000 萬美元的目標。

As long as you got the camera on the front, Will, what is the theory behind your new company in the finance world?

威爾，只要你把攝影機裝在前面，那你這家金融界新公司的理念是什麼呢？

Well, so the opportunities to bring margin across the value chain include being able to install very rapidly, installing the right equipment and then financing it in the proper way. So with the primary source of financing today is going to be power purchase agreements and leases. And this is because the income tax credit -- the incentive tax credits for solar are still available for going solar in that method for residential.

因此，在整個價值鏈上提高利潤率的機會包括能夠快速安裝、安裝合適的設備，然後以適當的方式為其融資。因此，目前主要的融資來源將是購電協議和租賃。這是因為，對於採用這種方式安裝太陽能係統的住宅用戶來說，所得稅抵免——太陽能激勵稅收抵免——仍然有效。

So we're bringing all of these things together with partnerships with companies like LightReach is a major partner of ours on the finance side, Enphase and the other partnerships that T.J. has already mentioned and then incorporating rapid installation like with what we're working on with same-day Solar is going to make the process smooth and simple for the customer, even though on the back end, we're managing all these complex partnerships.

因此，我們正在將所有這些因素整合起來，並與 LightReach（我們在金融方面的主要合作夥伴）、Enphase 以及 T.J. 已經提到的其他合作夥伴建立合作關係。此外，我們還將快速安裝（例如我們正在開發的 Same Day Solar）融入其中，這將使客戶的流程更加順暢和簡單，儘管在後台，我們還要管理所有這些複雜的合作關係。

Sorry about that. Is it --

抱歉。是嗎？--

That is it. That ends our call for today.

就是這樣。今天的通話就到這裡。

Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate your support.

感謝收看。感謝您的支持。