Sound Point Meridian Capital Inc (SPMC) 2026 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by.

各位女士、先生，感謝您稍候。

Soundpoint Meridian Capital refers participants on this call to the investor web page at www.soundpointmeridiancap.com for the press release, investor information, and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission and for a discussion of the risks that can affect the business.

Soundpoint Meridian Capital 提醒本次電話會議的與會者，請至 www.soundpointmeridiancap.com 的投資人網頁查閱新聞稿、投資人資訊、向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交的申報文件，以及可能影響本公司業務之風險討論。

Soundpoint Meridian Capital specifically refers participants to the presentation furnished today on the Form 8-K with the SEC, and to remind listeners that some of the comments today may contain forward-looking statements, and as such will be subject to risks and uncertainties which, if they materialize, could materially affect results. Reference is made to the section titled Forward-Looking Statements in the company's earnings press release for the latest quarter end, which is incorporated herein by reference.

Soundpoint Meridian Capital 特別提醒與會者參閱本日以 Form 8-K 向 SEC 提供的簡報，並提醒聽眾，今日部分評論可能包含前瞻性陳述，因此將受風險與不確定性影響；若相關風險與不確定性發生，可能對結果造成重大影響。請參閱公司最近一季期末盈餘新聞稿中「前瞻性陳述」一節，其內容以引用方式併入本文。

We note forward-looking statements, whether written or oral, include but are not limited to Soundpoint Meridian Capital's expectation or prediction of financial and business performance and conditions, as well as its competitive and industry outlook. Forward-looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties, and assumptions which, if they materialize, could materially affect results. And such forward-looking statements do not guarantee performance, and Soundpoint Meridian Capital gives no such assurances.

我們指出，前瞻性陳述（無論書面或口頭）包括但不限於 Soundpoint Meridian Capital 對財務與營運表現及狀況的預期或預測，以及其競爭與產業展望。前瞻性陳述受風險、不確定性與假設影響；若其發生，可能對結果造成重大影響。此類前瞻性陳述不保證績效，Soundpoint Meridian Capital 亦不作任何此類保證。

Soundpoint Meridian Capital is under no obligation and expressly disclaims any obligation to update, alter or otherwise revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, except as required by law. In addition, historical data pertaining to the operating results and other performance indicators applicable to Soundpoint Meridian Capital are not necessarily indicative of results to be achieved in succeeding periods.

除法律要求外，Soundpoint Meridian Capital 不負任何義務，並明確聲明不承擔更新、變更或以其他方式修訂任何前瞻性陳述之義務（無論因新資訊、未來事件或其他原因）。此外，與 Soundpoint Meridian Capital 之營運結果及其他績效指標相關的歷史資料，未必代表後續期間可達成之結果。

I will now turn the call over to Ujjaval Desai, Chief Executive Officer of Soundpoint Meridian Capital.

接下來我將把電話會議交給 Soundpoint Meridian Capital 執行長 Ujjaval Desai。

Thank you to everyone joining us today, and welcome to the Soundpoint Meridian Capital earnings call for the fourth fiscal quarter ended March 31, 2026. We'd like to invite you to download our investor presentation from our website. It provides additional information about the company and our portfolio.

感謝各位今天加入我們，歡迎參加 Soundpoint Meridian Capital 截至 2026 年 3 月 31 日之第四財政季度盈餘電話會議。我們邀請您從我們的網站下載投資人簡報。簡報提供關於公司與我們投資組合的更多資訊。

With me today is our Chief Financial Officer, Dan Fabian, and after our prepared remarks, we'll open the call to your questions.

今天與我一同出席的還有我們的財務長 Dan Fabian；在我們的準備發言結束後，將開放提問。

For the fourth fiscal quarter ended March 31, 2026, we generated net investment income or NII of $7 million or $0.34 per share and recorded a net realized loss of $0.20 per share on exited investments. Distributions of $0.75 per share during the quarter. NII remained below common distributions because of spread tightening and significant decline in [racial] equity audit charge over the past 12 to 18 months. Net asset value, NAV, per share ended the quarter at $9.63, down from $14.02 as of December 31, 2025. The NAV decline was a result of weaker market valuation for CLO equity and underlying leverage loans, combined with lower projected CLO equity cash flows.

就截至 2026 年 3 月 31 日之第四財政季度而言，我們創造淨投資收益（NII）700 萬美元，或每股 0.34 美元，並就已退出投資認列每股 0.20 美元的已實現淨損失。本季每股配息 0.75 美元。由於利差收斂，以及過去 12 至 18 個月 [racial] equity audit charge 大幅下降，NII 仍低於普通股配息。每股淨資產價值（NAV）季末為 9.63 美元，低於 2025 年 12 月 31 日的 14.02 美元。NAV 下滑係因 CLO 股權與其底層槓桿貸款的市場估值走弱，加上對 CLO 股權現金流的預估下修所致。

As of quarter end, our CLO equity portfolio's mated average GAAP year was 9.1% versus 11% in the prior quarter, driven by a sell-off in loans, particularly in the software sector, which increased model default rates of the underlying loans. Our portfolio remains highly diversified, with investments across 98 CLOs managed by 29 different managers, providing exposure to over 1,500 underlying loans spanning more than 30 industries on a look-through basis. In an environment characterized by increasing dispersion across sectors, credit to managers, we believe this level of diversification remains an important component of our risk management approach.

截至季末，我們 CLO 股權投資組合的加權平均 GAAP 收益率為 9.1%，相較前一季為 11%；主要受貸款拋售影響，尤其是軟體產業，導致模型對底層貸款的違約率假設上升。我們的投資組合仍高度分散，投資涵蓋由 29 位不同管理人管理的 98 檔 CLO，穿透後可曝險於超過 1,500 筆底層貸款，橫跨 30 多個產業。在各產業分化加劇、且更重視管理人信用品質的環境下，我們認為此等分散程度仍是風險管理方法的重要組成。

Subsequent to quarter end, we announced monthly distributions for calendar Q3 2026 of $0.20 per share, unchanged from our previously announced Q2 2026 monthly distributions. We will continue to evaluate distribution levels as earnings, market conditions and portfolio positioning evolve and expect to reassess the distribution strategy over the coming months as market visibility improves.

在季末之後，我們宣布 2026 年曆年第三季（Q3）每月配息為每股 0.20 美元，與先前宣布之 2026 年第二季（Q2）每月配息水準一致。我們將隨著獲利、市場狀況與投資組合配置的變化，持續評估配息水準，並預期在未來數月、隨市場能見度改善後，重新檢視配息策略。

I will now turn the call over to Dan for a more detailed review of our financial highlights for the quarter.

接下來我將把電話會議交給 Dan，請他更詳細回顧本季的財務重點。

Thanks, Ujaval, and hello, everyone.

謝謝你，Ujaval，各位好。

As Ujaval mentioned, for the quarter ended March 31, 2026, we delivered net investment income of $7 million or $0.34 per share. During the quarter, we purchased one new issue equity position with a cost of $4.5 million and a weighted average GAAP yield of 10.65%. We also purchased three equity investments in the secondary market with a cost of $7.4 million and a weighted average yield of 31.37%. In addition, we sold two equity investments generating $8.4 million in cash proceeds with a weighted average yield of 7%. We refinanced the liabilities of two CLO equity investments resulting in a weighted average debt cost saving of 34 basis points.

如 Ujaval 所提，對於截至 2026 年 3 月 31 日的季度，我們達成淨投資收益 700 萬美元，或每股 0.34 美元。本季我們買入 1 個新發行的股權部位，成本 450 萬美元，加權平均 GAAP 收益率為 10.65%。我們亦於次級市場買入 3 項股權投資，成本 740 萬美元，加權平均收益率為 31.37%。此外，我們出售 2 項股權投資，產生 840 萬美元現金收入，加權平均收益率為 7%。我們對 2 項 CLO 股權投資之負債進行再融資，使加權平均債務成本節省 34 個基點。

Finally, we redeemed two CLOs during the quarter, generating an additional $14.9 million in cash. For the quarter ended March 31, 2026, we recorded a net realized loss of $4.1 million and an unrealized loss on investments of $77.6 million. Total expenses during the quarter were $8.2 million. The GAAP net loss for the quarter was $74.7 million or a loss of $3.63 per share.

最後，我們於本季贖回 2 檔 CLO，額外產生 1,490 萬美元現金。就截至 2026 年 3 月 31 日之季度，我們認列已實現淨損失 410 萬美元，以及投資未實現損失 7,760 萬美元。本季總費用為 820 萬美元。本季 GAAP 淨損失為 7,470 萬美元，或每股虧損 3.63 美元。

Moving to our balance sheet, as of March 31, 2026, total assets were $374.5 million, net assets were $198.7 million and our net asset value stood at $9.63 per share. The fair value of our investment portfolio stood at $368.2 million, while available liquidity consisting of cash was approximately $5.8 million at the end of the quarter. As of March 31, 2026, the company's leverage ratio was 46.8% of total assets. During the quarter, we declared monthly cash distributions of $0.20 per share. Payable at the end of April, May and June. Based on our share price as of March 31, 2026, this represents an annualized dividend yield of 26.8%. As of April 30, 2026, our estimated net asset value per common share was $10.57.

接著看資產負債表，截至 2026 年 3 月 31 日，總資產為 3.745 億美元，淨資產為 1.987 億美元，每股淨資產價值為 9.63 美元。我們投資組合的公允價值為 3.682 億美元，而季末可用流動性（現金）約為 580 萬美元。截至 2026 年 3 月 31 日，公司槓桿比率為總資產的 46.8%。本季我們宣告每月現金配息每股 0.20 美元。將於 4 月、5 月與 6 月底支付。以 2026 年 3 月 31 日之股價計算，年化股息殖利率為 26.8%。截至 2026 年 4 月 30 日，我們估計每股普通股淨資產價值為 10.57 美元。

I'll now turn it back to Ujjaval Desai.

我現在把電話會議交回給 Ujjaval Desai。

Thanks, Dan.

謝謝你，Dan。

Before we move into Q&A, I wanted to take a moment to touch on the recent market backdrop for corporate loans and CLO equity.

在進入問答之前，我想花一點時間談談近期公司貸款與 CLO 股權的市場背景。

The first quarter of 2026 marked a noticeable shift in tone across US credit markets. After a year defined largely by favorable technicals and aggressive spread compression, the market came into 2026 expecting a transition from refinancing-driven activity toward more M&A-related issuance. We did begin to see some of that shift early in the quarter, but sentiment weakened quickly as macro uncertainty, geopolitical volatility and stress in certain sectors weighed on broader market sentiment. In particular, the sell-off in softer related loans that began in February weighed on overall market activity and investor sentiment.

2026 年第一季，美國信用市場的氛圍出現明顯轉變。在一個主要由有利技術面與激進利差壓縮所主導的年度之後，市場進入 2026 年時，預期活動將從以再融資驅動為主，轉向更多與併購（M&A）相關的發行。我們確實在本季初看到部分轉變，但隨著總體不確定性、地緣政治波動，以及部分產業壓力升高，市場情緒迅速轉弱並拖累整體市場情緒。尤其是 2 月開始的較疲弱之相關貸款拋售，壓抑了整體市場活動與投資人情緒。

US institutional leverage loan issuance totaled about $241 billion in the first quarter, which was roughly 32% behind the prior year space. Most of that decline came from a slowdown in refinancing and repricing activity as borrowers became less willing to pursue opportunistic transactions in a more volatile market with wider threats. At the same time, M&A-related issuance reached a four-year high supported by several large transactions, although activity was fairly concentrated with over. Of issuance tied to only a handful of mega deals rather than broad-based deal flow.

美國機構槓桿貸款在第一季的發行總額約為2,410億美元，較前一年同期約低32%。這一下滑多數來自再融資與重新定價活動放緩，因為在波動更大、風險更廣的市場環境下，借款人較不願意進行機會型交易。同時，在數筆大型交易支撐下，與併購（M&A）相關的發行量攀升至四年高點，但活動相當集中，超過發行量僅與少數幾筆超大型交易相關，而非廣泛的交易流量。

Market technicals also weakened meaningfully during the quarter. Investor demand fell to a three-year low, driven primarily by negative retail fund flows. While CLO issuance remained comparatively resilient. But was insufficient to offset the broader pullback. As a result, the supply-demand dynamic shifted materially with the loan market contracting by roughly $19 billion and the imbalance widening sharply relative to the prior year.

本季市場技術面也明顯轉弱。投資人需求降至三年低點，主要受零售基金資金淨流出所驅動。雖然CLO發行相對仍具韌性，但不足以抵消整體回落。因此，供需動態出現顯著轉變，貸款市場規模約縮減190億美元，且相較前一年失衡程度大幅擴大。

Against this backdrop, spreads widened across the credit spectrum. Specific to the broadly syndicated loan market, B-rated loan spreads widened by roughly 100 basis points from January levels. Loan prices declined during the quarter, with the Morningstar LSCA Lever Zone Index posting a negative 55 basis points return year-to-date, the weakest first quarter performance since 2020.

在此背景下，信用利差在整個信用光譜上走闊。就廣泛銀團貸款市場而言，B級貸款利差較1月水準擴大約100個基點。本季貸款價格下跌，Morningstar LSCA Lever Zone 指數年初至今報酬為負55個基點，為自2020年以來最疲弱的第一季表現。

The sell-off was most pronounced in the software sector, which dropped from 95.2% to 87.97% quarter-over-quarter due to concerns around AI-driven disruption, which triggered a sharp pre-pricing and contributed to broader risk aversion across credit markets. Excluding software, price declines were more modest from [97.36% to 96.08%], but sentiment generally deteriorated across sectors as geopolitical developments and inflation uncertainty reduced expectations for near-term monetary easing.

拋售在軟體產業最為明顯，季比從95.2%下滑至87.97%，原因在於市場擔憂AI驅動的顛覆，觸發了急劇的預先定價，並加劇信用市場整體的風險趨避。若排除軟體，價格跌幅較為溫和，從[97.36%降至96.08%]；但隨著地緣政治發展與通膨不確定性降低了市場對短期貨幣寬鬆的預期，各產業情緒普遍轉差。

CLO issuance remained relatively stable compared to other segments of the market, totaling approximately $47 billion in the first quarter, only moderately below 2025 levels. That said, activity slowed as the quarter progressed, with CLO managers becoming increasingly cautious in response to market volatility and widening liability spreads. CLO refinancing and reset activity declined significantly year-over-year, reflecting less favorable arbitrage substations and growing investor sensitivity to underlying. Credit quality.

相較市場其他區塊，CLO發行維持相對穩定，第一季合計約470億美元，僅較2025年水準小幅下降。不過，隨著季度推進，活動有所放緩；CLO管理人因應市場波動與負債端利差擴大而愈發謹慎。CLO再融資與重設（reset）活動年比大幅下滑，反映套利條件較不理想，且投資人對標的信用品質的敏感度提高。

Looking ahead, we think the direction of credit markets will likely depend on whether macro conditions begin to stabilize and investor demand improves. Post-quarter end, loan prices rebounded as immediate AI displacement fears began to subside and a U.S.-Iran ceasefire was announced. Dealer equity buyers returned to the secondary market with a subsequent rebound in prices, reflected in our April 30th, 2026, NAV that Dan mentioned at $10.57 MT share.

展望未來，我們認為信用市場走向很可能取決於總體環境是否開始穩定，以及投資人需求是否改善。季末之後，隨著即時的AI取代疑慮開始消退，以及美伊宣布停火，貸款價格出現反彈。券商自營（dealer equity）買盤回流次級市場，帶動價格後續回升，並反映在我們截至2026年4月30日的每股淨值（NAV）10.57美元（Dan先前提到的MT每股）。

Though sentiment around the software space has improved from the February lows, we still believe that some CLO managers and portfolios are better positioned than others to manage the risk presented by the increasing impact of AI. April and May have afforded us the opportunity to rotate our portfolio of CLO equity positions, which we believe will benefit the fund in the long run.

儘管軟體領域的情緒已較2月低點改善，我們仍認為，面對AI影響日益加深所帶來的風險，部分CLO管理人與投資組合的因應能力優於其他同業。4月與5月讓我們有機會輪動CLO股權部位的投資組合，我們相信這將在長期上使基金受益。

On the other side of the balance sheet, liability costs began tightening again in April to May to levels last seen in January, which has opened up the refinancing optionality that our portfolio has as we move through the rest of 2026.

在資產負債表的另一端，負債成本在4月至5月再度收斂至1月以來的水準，這也開啟了我們投資組合在2026年剩餘期間所具備的再融資選擇權。

With that, we thank you for your time and would like to open the call to any questions. Operator.

基於以上，感謝各位撥冗參與，我們想開放電話會議進入提問。接線員。

(Operator Instructions)

（接線員指示）

Gaurav Mehta, Alliance Global.

Gaurav Mehta，Alliance Global。

Yeah, thank you. Good afternoon. I wanted to go back to your comments around software, and wondering if you would comment on... How much exposure do you have to software in your portfolio, and is that something you're looking to reduce going forward?

是的，謝謝。下午好。我想回到你們對軟體的評論，想請你們談談……你們投資組合對軟體的曝險有多少？未來是否打算降低？

So I think when you say software, we are more interested in the exposure to AI, not just software. So what we look at is, companies that are potentially going to be disrupted by AI. So that includes the software sector, the traditional software sector, but also services as well as healthcare. So if you do that or look through analysis, the portfolio is roughly around kind of low 10s in terms of exposure to those types of credits.

我想當你說軟體時，我們更關注的是對AI的曝險，而不只是軟體。我們看的重點是可能會被AI顛覆的公司。這包含軟體產業、傳統軟體產業，也包含服務業以及醫療保健。若以此進行穿透式分析，投資組合對這類信用的曝險大約在10%出頭。

What we are doing and what we've done is sort of in February, March, and April, we undertook a very thorough re-underwrite of all the names that constitute this 12%, 13% bucket around fifty-four names in this bucket, and we re-underwrote all the names, did a deep dive to understand the risk-return profile of these credits.

我們正在做、也已經做的是：在2月、3月與4月，我們對構成這個約12%、13%區間（約54個名稱）的所有標的，進行非常徹底的重新承作評估（re-underwrite），並逐一深度研究，以了解這些信用的風險報酬輪廓。

What we found was that a large majority of them are actually strong companies that will be able to withstand the risk from AI. In fact, some of them can actually benefit from AI by adopting it, by spending money, improving their business prospects, and use AI to their advantage and so as a result of that, what we're doing is, as we're not -- we don't manage the underlying loans, we are invested in equity in these CLOs and so what we've done is, again, after speaking to all the managers in our portfolio, we have identified credits that we like, credits we don't like and what we've been doing already is rebalancing the portfolio.

我們發現其中絕大多數其實是體質強健的公司，能夠承受AI帶來的風險。事實上，有些公司還能透過導入AI而受益：投入資本、改善營運前景，並把AI轉化為優勢。因此我們目前的作法是——由於我們並不管理底層貸款，我們是投資於這些CLO的股權——所以我們所做的是：在與投資組合內所有管理人溝通後，我們已辨識出我們喜歡的信用與不喜歡的信用，而我們已經在進行投資組合再平衡。

By kind of reducing CLO equity exposure where there is a lot more negative credits and adding CLO positions where there is more sort of positive portfolio. So it's been a lot of rebalancing that we're doing. As a result of that, RA exposure probably will go down a little bit, but we're not trying to reduce the exposure, just trying to make sure we're in the right credits within the sector, and that's really the important thing for us to focus on?

也就是在負面信用較多的情況下降低CLO股權曝險，並增加投資於投資組合較偏正向的CLO部位。因此我們正在做大量的再平衡。在此結果下，AI曝險可能會小幅下降，但我們並不是要降低曝險，而是要確保在該產業內持有正確的信用標的；這才是我們真正要聚焦的重點。

Thanks for those details.

謝謝這些細節。

Second follow-up question I have is maybe on the investment environment between primary and secondary market. Also curious to learn the secondary investment that you made in the quarter at 31.3%. Were those opportunities for a one-time opportunity because of the loan sell-off that you saw in the quarter?

我的第二個追問可能是關於一級與二級市場之間的投資環境。我也想了解你們本季在二級市場以31.3%所做的投資。那些是否屬於一次性的機會，因為你們在本季看到貸款市場的拋售？

So I think it's just maybe just looking at the timeline here February is when this whole AI sell-off started, and then March we had the impact from the U.S.-Iran conflict. So really the market was completely, shut off in February and March, and not much secondary activity is going on. So we did participate in a couple of these.

我想只是把時間軸拉出來看：2月是整個AI拋售開始的時候，接著3月又受到美伊衝突的影響。所以2月與3月市場幾乎完全關閉，二級市場也沒有太多交易活動。因此我們確實參與了其中幾筆。

New secondary transactions, but really most of the activity has been in April and May in terms of our portfolio positioning, and so you will not see that in the March numbers, but you'll see it in the next quarter's numbers, so we'll obviously highlight that in three months' time. But what we have been focused on in the last few weeks has been exactly what I said earlier is picking up sort of good secondary investments that add to the portfolio.

新的二級市場交易，但實際上多數活動是在4月與5月、就我們投資組合部位調整而言；因此你不會在3月的數字中看到，但會在下一季的數字中看到，我們也會在三個月後特別說明。不過，我們過去幾週的重點正如我先前所說，就是承接一些優質的二級市場投資，以增益投資組合。

And we have already sold certain positions where we see a lot more tail risk, whether that's because of AI, whether that's just because of loans trading at big discounts, triple C risk of cash flows getting cut off that are equity positions. And as we said in the early part of the call that the opportunity set here is really to identify.

而且我們已經賣出了一些我們認為尾端風險更高的部位，無論那是因為 AI，或只是因為貸款以大幅折價交易、CCC 等級風險導致現金流被切斷的風險（這些都是權益部位）。並且如同我們在電話會議前段所說，這裡的機會集合其實在於辨識。

The strong outperformers and use this market opportunity to reduce tail risk in the portfolio. And that's exactly what we'll be doing, and we'll expect to do that going forward as well. Your initial question about primary versus secondary, the opportunity set really that we are seeing today is in the secondary market. Primary equity returns still do not look attractive and part of the reason here is that while loan repricings have slowed down and so spreads have actually stabilized on the loan side.

表現最強、最能跑贏的標的，並利用這次市場機會降低投資組合的尾端風險。這正是我們將要做的，而且我們也預期未來會持續這麼做。你一開始問到初級市場與次級市場的差異，我們今天看到的機會集合主要是在次級市場。初級市場的股權報酬看起來仍不具吸引力，其中一部分原因是，雖然貸款重新定價已經放緩，因此在貸款端利差其實已趨於穩定。

We saw disruption in the liability market, so the liability levels have actually widened out. They're slowly going back to their earlier levels, but the arbitrage in new issue still does not look attractive to us. So we're watching that market carefully to the extent we find new issues that make sense. We will certainly pursue those opportunities as well. But right now, we're seeing a lot more interesting opportunities in the secondary markets.

但我們看到負債端市場出現擾動，因此負債成本水準實際上已經擴大。它們正緩慢回到先前水準，但新發行的套利空間對我們而言仍不具吸引力。因此我們會密切觀察該市場，若我們找到合理的新發行案。我們當然也會把握那些機會。但就目前而言，我們在次級市場看到更多更有意思的機會。

Erik Zwick, Lucid Capital Markets.

Erik Zwick，Lucid Capital Markets。

I first wanted to ask for the $4.1 million of realized losses in the quarter. What was that driven from, what did you decide to sell, and what was the reason for it at that time?

我首先想問本季 410 萬美元的已實現損失。這主要是由什麼造成的、你們決定賣了哪些部位，以及當時賣出的原因是什麼？

So, yeah, I think it's really just -- as I said earlier, it's positions where we see more downside relative to upside going forward. So we're more focused here on the go forward return of these positions.

所以，是的，我認為這真的就是——如我先前所說——那些我們認為未來下行相對於上行更大的部位。因此我們更聚焦在這些部位未來的報酬表現。

So those are the transactions we sold that resulted in a loss because they were held at a much higher cost than where they were trading. But rather than worrying about that, our main focus really is to reduce losses going forward. And so, we, again, through our, significant re-underwrite of these names, and sort of re-analyzing CLO cash flows using our systems, using our internal sort of credit expertise, but also speaking to all of our managers, we identified certain underperforming.

所以我們賣出的那些交易因為持有成本遠高於當時的交易價格，因此產生了損失。但我們不會糾結於此，我們真正的重點是降低未來可能發生的損失。因此，我們再次透過對這些名稱進行大幅度的重新承作（re-underwrite），並運用我們的系統重新分析 CLO 現金流，結合我們內部的信用專業，同時也與所有管理人溝通，我們辨識出一些表現較差的。

Transactions that we wanted to sell to reduce our tail risk, and we went into sort of better performing secondary positions. So that rebalancing is what resulted in some of these realized losses relative to the cost we were holding those assets at. So that was why it did that. I think because of these trades, we think that now we're going to have a much better, healthier portfolio, but also much better go-forward IRRs. So that's really what we're trying to do is make sure that. The portfolio continues to perform well and what we're seeing in this market really is that, I'll give you an example, we are seeing transactions where we can sell something which we think in a bear, let's say, a bear scenario, if the market really takes a negative turn here.

交易，我們希望賣出以降低尾端風險，並轉進表現較佳的次級市場部位。因此，這樣的再平衡導致相對於我們持有這些資產的成本，出現了一些已實現損失。所以原因就在這裡。我認為因為這些交易，我們現在將擁有更好、更健康的投資組合，同時也會有更好的未來 IRR。所以我們真正想做的是確保。投資組合持續表現良好；而我們在這個市場看到的是——我舉個例子——我們看到一些交易，我們可以賣出某些我們認為在熊市情境下（例如市場在此出現明顯轉負）。

Certain equity positions could have, negative returns going forward. So they could actually lose money from here onwards, while there are plenty of transactions that are available where you can have a strong positive return in the same sort of bear market environment. So I think it's really those types of kind of risk management trades to try to, change the shape of the curve, if you will, the IRR curve and try to reduce that tail risk. But that's really what resulted in those losses.

某些權益部位未來可能會出現負報酬。也就是說，從現在起它們可能會虧錢；但同時市場上也有很多交易可供選擇，即使在同樣的熊市環境下仍能有強勁的正報酬。所以我認為這就是那類風險管理型交易，試圖——如果你願意這麼說——改變 IRR 曲線的形狀，並降低尾端風險。而這就是造成那些損失的原因。

Yeah, thank you for explaining the process and strategy there. I'm curious as you re-underwrote some of those positions and those that you did decide to sell, were there any common themes in terms of either individual loans that you saw as having some of that tail risk or industry concentrations or what did you identify that was driving kind of the more downside that you potentially saw, the downside risk.

好的，謝謝你解釋那個流程與策略。我想了解的是，當你們重新承作其中一些部位、並決定賣出那些部位時，在你們看到的尾端風險方面，是否有任何共同主題？例如特定個別貸款、產業集中度，或你們辨識到是什麼因素在驅動你們所看到的較大下行、也就是下行風險？

Yeah, I think it's really, at the end of the day, it sort of comes down to, name by name, credit risk. So when we pre-underwrote our portfolio, we also looked at manager performance, right? So it's important to.

是的，我認為歸根結底，這有點回到逐一名稱（name by name）的信用風險。因此當我們重新承作投資組合時，我們也看了管理人的表現，對吧？所以這很重要。

We underwrite managers as well, we rank them based on how they've done, how they manage the sort of the AI stress, if you will.

我們也會承作管理人，我們會依據他們過去的表現、以及他們如何管理所謂的 AI 壓力（如果你願意這麼說）來進行排名。

And so based on all that analysis, we were able to identify credits that we think are, loans trading at, discounts. So these are not trading at par, these are stress loans. A lot of them happen to be kind of software related date loans, but if a loan is trading, let's say, at 90, but we think that there is a lot more downside here, and it could actually default or go through out of code restructuring, and it could actually end up trading 20 points lower, we would rather reduce exposure to those loans.

因此基於所有這些分析，我們能夠辨識出一些我們認為是以折價交易的信用標的、也就是貸款以折價交易。所以這些不是以平價交易，這些是壓力貸款。其中很多剛好是與軟體相關的資料類貸款；但如果一筆貸款例如以 90 的價格交易，而我們認為下行風險更大、它可能實際上會違約或進入庭外重整（out-of-court restructuring），並且最終可能再下跌 20 點，我們寧可降低對這些貸款的曝險。

And if there are loans where they're trading at sort of 80, 85, but they probably are money good, there's a lot more upside there, we would like to add to those types of names. So that's the kind of analysis we did. So it's a combination. Of industry credit, but also managers, right? So certain managers, have underperformed because either they had too much exposure to AI or they did not, trade the portfolio properly.

而如果有些貸款以大約 80、85 的價格交易，但它們大概率是能夠足額償付（money good）的，那麼上行空間就大得多，我們會希望加碼這類名稱。所以這就是我們做的分析。因此這是一種組合。包含產業信用面，但也包含管理人，對吧？所以某些管理人表現落後，可能是因為他們對 AI 的曝險過高，或是他們沒有妥善地交易／調整投資組合。

And so we think that some of those managers will underperform going forward and, the market has been very active since April, mid-April, really, for the last month and a half, the secondary market has been quite attractive. Loan prices have rebounded, CLO prices have rebounded, and I mentioned that our NAV has gone up now to $10.57, so it's a significant increase in NAV in April. So in sort of this reasonably positive environment that we've had over the last couple of weeks. We have taken advantage of that environment and use that opportunity to really do this sort of risk management transactions. So that's really kind of the process that we undertook.

因此我們認為其中一些管理人未來會持續落後；而且自 4 月以來、尤其是 4 月中旬起，市場非常活躍，過去一個半月次級市場相當有吸引力。貸款價格反彈、CLO 價格也反彈；我也提到我們的 NAV 現在上升到 10.57 美元，所以 4 月 NAV 顯著上升。因此在過去幾週這種相對正向的環境下。我們把握了這個環境，並利用這個機會來做這類風險管理交易。所以這大致就是我們採取的流程。

Thank you for the additional commentary. That's helpful. That's actually a great segue into my next question I wanted to ask about that April NAV and you talked about that the drivers there. I'm curious, I know you don't have a... Month-end May estimate, quantitative estimate yet, but we're getting towards the end of the month. So curious if just directionally you can say have, some of the drivers that drove the April NAV increase, have those at least maintained or potentially increased additionally at this point?

謝謝你補充說明。這很有幫助。這也正好銜接到我下一個問題：我想問 4 月的 NAV，你也談到其背後的驅動因素。我想了解的是，我知道你們還沒有……截至 5 月月底的估計值、也就是量化估計值，但我們已接近月底。所以想請教，若以方向性來看，推動 4 月 NAV 上升的一些因素，到了目前為止是否至少維持、或甚至進一步增加？

Yes. So what drove the positive performance in April? A couple of factors. One, as we mentioned, loan prices rebounded. And that happened sort of in the AI sector, but also across the board, loan prices rebounded in April. And that rebound has continued to happen in May. And so, that sort of related to general, feeling or sentiment of the market that some of these loans were -- had sold off too much indiscriminately, really. And so that sort of reversed in April and has continued in May.

是的。那麼 4 月的正向表現是由什麼驅動的？有幾個因素。第一，如我們提到的，貸款價格反彈。而這不僅發生在 AI 產業，也是在整體範圍內，貸款價格在 4 月普遍反彈。而這個反彈在 5 月仍持續。因此，這某種程度反映了市場的整體感受或情緒：部分貸款先前是——確實被不加區分地賣得太過頭了。因此這在 4 月出現反轉，並且在 5 月延續。

The second thing that is very important to note here is that the liability costs have also improved. So I think if you look at our kind of where the liability market was, let's say at the end of the last year, so December 2025. The average cost of refinancing a CLO liability stack was about $155. If you look at what it was at the end of March, it was $168. So liabilities widened out 13 basis points roughly on average. That number has now gone back to $155 roughly. So the liability widening we saw in the first quarter has now reversed itself and kind of gone back to where it was at the end of December.

這裡第二個非常重要、需要注意的事情是，負債端成本也有所改善。所以我認為，如果你看我們的負債市場大概處於什麼位置，假設是在去年年底，也就是 2025 年 12 月。CLO 負債結構再融資的平均成本大約是 155 美元。如果你看 3 月底的數字，是 168 美元。所以負債端利差平均大約擴大了 13 個基點。而這個數字現在大致又回到 155 美元左右。因此，我們在第一季看到的負債利差擴大，現在已經反轉，並大致回到 12 月底時的水準。

And that is important for us because, as our portfolio has a fair bit of shorter non-call, and that's something that we actively pursued that strategy last year to keep the portfolio shorter on the non-call side. We still have a very long reinvestment period, so we have a pretty long runway, but we try to have a shorter non-call. Why is that important? That's important because in a market that we have, which we think will continue, which is where loans. When there's anything positive, loan spreads kind of stay tight, they reprice fast.

這對我們很重要，因為我們的投資組合有相當一部分是較短的不可贖回期（non-call），而這是我們去年主動採取的策略，讓投資組合在不可贖回期這一端維持較短。我們仍然有很長的再投資期間，所以我們有相當長的跑道，但我們會盡量讓不可贖回期更短。為什麼這很重要？這很重要，因為在我們所處、且我們認為會持續的市場環境中，也就是貸款市場。只要有任何正面因素，貸款利差往往就會維持緊縮，並且很快重新定價。

You want to have as much of a match as possible between assets and liabilities. So having a slightly shorter non-call, not having a two-year month, but having on average, let's say, a 10, 11-month non-call, that's quite helpful. And that's kind of what we have right now. Now that hurt us in the first quarter because short and on-call meant there was a lot of optionality for refinancings, but those that optionality we couldn't take advantage of because liability had liability spreads it wide and out, and so because of that, we didn't really undertake too many refinancings in the first quarter.

你會希望資產與負債之間的匹配程度越高越好。因此，採用稍短的不可贖回期，不是兩年的期限，而是平均大約 10、11 個月的不可贖回期，會相當有幫助。而這大致就是我們目前的狀況。不過，這在第一季對我們造成了不利影響，因為期限短且可被贖回意味著再融資有很大的選擇權，但我們無法利用這個選擇權，因為負債端利差擴大了；因此，我們在第一季其實沒有進行太多再融資。

And we mentioned in the commentary that we did two transactions, two refinancings, and two liquidations. So that's what we did last quarter. But since the end of the quarter, we've actually done a lot more, and we continue to do a lot more given that liability levels have come down. So that also helps us. Loan pricing increases, that helps us, but also liability tightening also helps improve cash flows, the expectation of refinancings of our liabilities, and all of that improves our go-forward cash flows too.

我們在評論中提到，我們做了兩筆交易、兩次再融資，以及兩次清算。這就是我們上季所做的。但自季末以來，隨著負債端水準下降，我們其實做了更多，而且也會持續做更多。所以這也對我們有幫助。貸款價格上升對我們有幫助，但負債利差收斂也有助於改善現金流、提升我們對負債再融資的預期，而這些都會改善我們未來的現金流。

So long way to answer your question, but those are the factors that affected positively in April, and that has continued in May. I don't have the numbers for May right now, still a little too early because we generally get our NAVs toward the end of the month, but the month so far has been positive for both loans and CLO equity. So the expectation at this point, at least, unless something happens materially in the next few days or a week or so is that May should also be a good month for CLOs.

所以用比較長的方式回答你的問題，但這些就是 4 月帶來正面影響的因素，而且 5 月也延續了這個趨勢。我現在還沒有 5 月的數字，因為還稍早，我們通常在月底左右才會拿到淨值（NAV），但截至目前，本月貸款與 CLO 股權的表現都是正面的。因此，就目前的預期來看，除非接下來幾天或一週左右發生重大事件，5 月對 CLO 來說也應該會是個不錯的月份。

Great, thank you. I appreciate that, and that I just kind of putting it all together, and thanks for the detail and the liability spread. I was going to ask about that. I guess if I kind of put all that together, you're seeing, reposition the portfolio a little bit, seeing some wider spreads on the, buying in the secondary market, and you've got the ability to kind of do some resets and refives with the tighter liability spreads. Just thinking about the portfolio yield going forward, it seems like there's potentially opportunity here to see that, at least stabilize, if not start moving higher going forward. Is that the right way to put all that together?

很好，謝謝。我很感謝你的說明，也謝謝你把整體串起來，並提供負債利差的細節。我本來就想問這個。我想如果把這些都放在一起看，你們正在稍微重新配置投資組合，在次級市場買進時看到一些較寬的利差，而且在負債利差更緊的情況下，你們也有能力做一些重設（reset）與再融資（refi）。就未來的投資組合收益率來看，似乎可能有機會至少先穩定下來，甚至未來開始走高。這樣把整體結論整理起來是正確的嗎？

Yeah, that's our hope as well. I think, it's really hard to predict kind of, you still have this concern that the loan. The new issue loan market has not really picked up. It started picking up in January, early February, and then it stopped again because of the volatility and then the war. Our hope is that the market sort of M&A activity comes back. We've seen some new issue loans already in the last few weeks. There is a lot more issuance in particular in sort of the data center space as well that's making its way into the loan market.

是的，這也是我們的希望。我認為這真的很難預測，你仍然會有這樣的擔憂：貸款。新發行貸款市場其實還沒有真正回溫。它在 1 月、2 月初開始回升，但之後因為波動以及戰爭又再度停滯。我們希望市場上的併購（M&A）活動能回來。過去幾週我們已經看到一些新發行貸款。特別是在資料中心領域，也有更多發行正在進入貸款市場。

So if that loan issuance continues to stay healthy, that's really what we need. That was what was missing last year. It sort of came up but then disappeared again. We hope that comes back. If it does, that should help stabilize loan spreads and that obviously is the number one factor when it comes to our yield. And then the secondary things, yes, is the refinancing of our liability should also be very helpful. The relative sort of the repositioning that I talked about earlier, that also helps with our spread, with our yield, other, selling.

所以如果貸款發行能持續保持健康，這正是我們所需要的。這也是去年所欠缺的。它一度回升，但之後又消失了。我們希望它能回來。如果回來了，將有助於穩定貸款利差，而這顯然是影響我們收益率的首要因素。其次，是我們負債端的再融資也會非常有幫助。另外，我先前提到的相對重新配置，也有助於我們的利差與收益率，還有其他，例如賣出。

Sort of positions where the yield is low, there's a lot more tail risk selling out of those, although we realized crystallized some losses there, it not only improves our sort of tail risk in the portfolio, but also can potentially improve go-forward yield as well. So I think those are sort of the components of our yield, and certainly we're working hard to try to stabilize that and see if we can improve it and bring it up. And that's certainly our focus going forward.

也就是賣出那些收益率較低、尾端風險（tail risk）較高的部位；雖然我們在那裡實現並確認了一些損失，但這不僅改善了投資組合的尾端風險，也可能提升未來的收益率。所以我認為這些就是構成我們收益率的幾個要素，而我們確實正努力讓它穩定下來，看看能否改善並拉升。這也將是我們接下來的重點。

At this time, there are no further questions. I'll hand the call back to Ujaval, decide for any additional or closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。我會把電話交回給 Ujaval，由他決定是否有任何補充或結語。

Okay, thank you everyone for listening in today. I hope you found the discussion fruitful and informative, and we look forward to seeing you guys again in three months' time.

好的，謝謝各位今天收聽。希望你們覺得這次討論有收穫且具資訊性，我們也期待三個月後再與各位見面。

Thank you again. Take care.

再次感謝。保重。

And once again, that does conclude today's conference. Thank you all for your participation today. You may now disconnect.

再次提醒，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位今天的參與。您現在可以掛線。