Sunrise Communications AG (SNRE) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us today. I'd like to welcome you to our Q1 2025 results call. As this is our first pure quarterly update call since our listing, let me briefly summarize which documents were published today and which will also be made available on a quarterly basis going forward. So next to the press release we published earlier, you'll find on our Investor Relations website the interim financial statements, the fact sheet, as well as the presentation that we will discuss in this call.

女士們、先生們，早安，謝謝你們今天參加我們的活動。歡迎您參加我們的 2025 年第一季業績電話會議。由於這是我們上市以來第一次純季度更新電話會議，因此讓我簡要總結一下今天發布了哪些文件，以及哪些文件將在今後按季度發布。因此，除了我們先前發布的新聞稿之外，您還可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到中期財務報表、情況說明書以及我們將在本次電話會議上討論的簡報。

Now, turning to the presentation itself, as per usual, with me today are André Krause, our CEO; as well as Jany Fruytier, our CFO. We'll start a call with the presentation, which will be followed by a Q&A session.

現在，我們來談談演講本身，按照慣例，今天和我一起演講的是我們的執行長 André Krause；以及我們的財務長 Jany Fruytier。我們將以示範開始通話，然後是問答環節。

With that, let me hand over to André. Please go ahead.

說完這些，讓我把麥克風交給安德烈。請繼續。

Yeah, thanks, Alex, and good morning, everyone, for our Q1 results. Let me start off the presentation by talking you through an overview of the key takeaways of today's presentation.

是的，謝謝，亞歷克斯，大家早安，恭喜我們的第一季業績。首先，我先向大家概述今天演講的重點。

So firstly, we have seen Q1 as being a quarter with continued customer growth, and with a number of new technical and product launches that we'll talk through in a minute. The quarter as such was somewhat softer in terms of trading, which was intentionally also driven by the fact that we had some price rises coming up and hence had reduced our activities a bit, and had also a few spillover effects from the Black Friday activities in Q4, which had impacted the quarter.

首先，我們認為第一季是客戶數量持續成長的季度，並且推出了許多新技術和新產品，我們將在稍後討論。本季的交易略顯疲軟，這也是由於價格即將上漲，我們有意減少了一些活動，而且第四季度黑色星期五活動也產生了一些溢出效應，對本季產生了影響。

As I said, we launched a new product portfolio in April that is focusing on more for more for our customers and also on loyalty.

正如我所說，我們在四月推出了新的產品組合，重點是為客戶提供更多服務並提高客戶忠誠度。

And there's a number of new innovative products on the basis on the back of that launch coming throughout the year.

在此次發布的基礎上，全年也將推出多款創新產品。

We also launched our 5G stand-alone technology on our network, and we'll talk about that later on as well. Secondly, the Q1 financials were in line with our expectations. And on the back of that, we are also confirming our full guidance for this year. Revenues were down by 3.3%, also impacted by lower hardware sales on the back of, increasing replacement cycles on hardware.

我們還在我們的網路上推出了 5G 獨立技術，稍後我們也會討論這一點。其次，第一季的財務狀況符合我們的預期。在此基礎上，我們也確認了今年的完整指導。收入下降了 3.3%，也受到硬體銷售下降、硬體更換週期增加的影響。

And of course, also impacting by the right pricing activities, from last year on the fixed side in particular.

當然，正確的定價活動也產生了影響，尤其是從去年開始的固定定價方面。

Down to IITA, we are plus 0.4% year on year. The revenue decline was only partially impacting gross profit and then with the number of opECs optimizations and some phasing, we see the EIA number growing, year on year.

根據國際熱帶農業研究所的數據，我們的成長率年增了 0.4%。收入下降僅對毛利產生了部分影響，隨著 opEC 數量的優化和一些分階段實施，我們看到 EIA 數字逐年增長。

We are fully confirming our guidance as said that includes also our dividend per share guidance that we expect to grow by 2.7% for the year 2025 to be paid in 206.

我們完全確認我們的指導意見，其中還包括我們的每股股息指導意見，我們預計 2025 年每股股息將成長 2.7%，並於 206 年支付。

Certainly, we also held our first AGM just last week. You probably all saw the outcome of that. Shareholders approved our 2024 dividend. The payment has been executed in the meanwhile. And today we are also announcing that we will go ahead with the ADS delisting for the mid of August 2025. Already 82% of our ADS have been converted.

當然，我們上週也剛舉行了第一次年度股東大會。你們可能都看到結果了。股東批准了我們的 2024 年股利。目前付款已執行。今天我們也宣布，我們將於 2025 年 8 月中旬進行 ADS 退市。我們的 82% ADS 已經轉換。

Of our class A shares have been converted in 98% of the class B shares have been converted, so we are progressing as announced as part of the IPO towards the delisting.

我們的 A 類股票中 98% 已經轉換，B 類股票也已轉換，因此我們正在按照 IPO 中宣布的程序逐步實現退市。

Now, with that, let me move to a bit more detail and granularity on our commercial performance.

現在，讓我更詳細地介紹一下我們的商業表現。

And I would really like to start off with our new portfolio.

我非常想從我們的新投資組合開始。

Which is called Swiss Connect. And the name is actually the program, of the new portfolio. It is, like I said, a more for more fo portfolio, so customers do get more roaming included. All tariff components now have certain roaming services included, and that comes in with a slightly higher price across all of the tariffs that we have. We also added a new Travel East plan which covers the Balkan region. As we do have also quite some frequent travelers to that region that seems to be an important product and the need that we are covering, with that tariff in particular.

這被稱為 Swiss Connect。這個名稱實際上是新投資組合的計劃。正如我所說的，這是一個更多的產品組合，因此客戶確實可以獲得更多漫遊服務。現在，所有資費項目都包含某些漫遊服務，因此我們所有資費項目的價格都略高一些。我們還增加了新的 Travel East 計劃，涵蓋巴爾幹半島。由於我們確實也有很多經常前往該地區的旅行者，這似乎是一種重要的產品，也是我們滿足需求的產品，特別是那種關稅。

Important on top of that is also this portfolio is not only looking at more for more and the inclusion of roaming, but it's also adding loyalty rewards. And these loyalty rewards are not only for new, but also for existing customers. That is closing an important GAAP that we had in the past where existing customers were often complaining about the fact that our promotions were mainly focused on new customers and existing customers were not benefiting. With the structure and the mechanic of the new portfolio, this is now past history and hence we believe that this portfolio will drive more value, also to our existing customers.

最重要的是，該產品組合不僅注重更多優惠和漫遊服務，還增加了忠誠度獎勵。這些忠誠度獎勵不僅適用於新客戶，也適用於現有客戶。這結束了我們過去的一個重要的 GAAP，現有客戶經常抱怨我們的促銷活動主要集中在新客戶身上，而現有客戶並沒有受益。憑藉新產品組合的結構和機制，這已成為過去，因此我們相信該產品組合將為我們的現有客戶帶來更多價值。

Lastly, we added also perplexity to our product lineup. So customers do get an exclusive loyalty offer, which is a one year perplexity Pro subscription that everybody can use.

最後，我們也為我們的產品系列添加了困惑。因此，客戶確實獲得了獨家忠誠度優惠，即每個人都可以使用的為期一年的 Perplexity Pro 訂閱。

We are quite happy about that inclusion because for us it looks like the perplexity is a great AI tool that helps our customers to use AI on a, I would say the basis that includes all of the current news in the web, has great referencing tools, and while we are speaking, has already 10,000 customers who have taken this option.

我們對這項納入感到非常高興，因為對我們來說，困惑似乎是一個很棒的人工智慧工具，它可以幫助我們的客戶使用人工智慧，我想說，它的基礎包括網路上的所有當前新聞，有很好的參考工具，而且就在我們說話的時候，已經有 10,000 名客戶選擇了這個選項。

Now, let me also talk about the price rises that we have executed in the first quarter. So you see on the slide that we have done price rises across all our brands, our Sunrise main brand, also our Sunrise B2B customers to the largest part of their portfolio and also for our yellow customers.

現在我也來談談我們在第一季實施的價格上漲情況。因此，您可以在幻燈片上看到，我們已對所有品牌、Sunrise 主品牌、Sunrise B2B 客戶（其產品組合中的大部分）以及黃色客戶進行了價格上漲。

For the Sunrise brands, those price rises have become effective in March, while yellow only became April, so you see from that that the price rise has only marginally impacted the quarter, and we are expecting more price rise, positive impacts in the quarters to come. We have increased on the main brand side by 1.8% and on flanker brand by 1.5%. The main brand scope included fixed and mobile, while on the flanker brand, we have focused on mobile only and hence we are expecting also the benefits down to revenue and Apple in the coming quarters.

對於 Sunrise 品牌來說，這些價格上漲已於 3 月生效，而黃色品牌僅在 4 月生效，因此從中可以看出，價格上漲僅對本季度產生了輕微影響，我們預計未來幾個季度價格將進一步上漲，並產生積極影響。我們主品牌成長了 1.8%，側翼品牌成長了 1.5%。主要品牌範圍包括固定和移動，而在側翼品牌上，我們只專注於移動，因此我們預計未來幾季的收入和蘋果也將受益。

We've also added new, moments, rewards to our Moments program. As you remember, Moments is out there for 3 years now and it's actually growing in usage, and it's, trying to drive loyalty with our customers. We have focused in the past very much on entertainment experiences.

我們還在「時刻」計畫中加入了新的「時刻」獎勵。大家還記得，Moments 已經推出 3 年了，它的使用率實際上不斷增長，它正在努力提高客戶的忠誠度。過去我們非常注重娛樂體驗。

We have now also added more features and more experiences for families, like for example, Circus and Europa Park and the the Parti cinemas are also new additions that are broadening the scope of the rewards that we are providing, and with that we think we are going to reach more of our customers going forward with those exclusive benefits that we are providing.

我們現在也為家庭增加了更多功能和體驗，例如馬戲團和歐洲公園以及 Parti 電影院等新增加的項目，擴大了我們提供的獎勵範圍，我們相信，透過我們提供的這些獨家優惠，我們將在未來吸引更多的客戶。

As B2B is a very important part of our story and, also in one, we had quite a number of movements. I'd like to talk you through our new Swiss Post testimonial campaign. Swiss Post is now a customer of Sunrise of more than 10 years, and hence, are now, participating in this campaign. They are demonstrating how our fixed and mobile.

由於 B2B 是我們故事中非常重要的一部分，並且在其中，我們進行了相當多的舉措。我想向您介紹我們新的瑞士郵政推薦活動。瑞士郵政現已成為 Sunrise 十多年的客戶，因此現在也參與了這項活動。他們正在示範我們的固定和移動方式。

Offerings that we are driving to the Swiss Post are supporting their business. And as you can see from the numbers, Swiss Post obviously is a very large, enterprise in Switzerland.

我們向瑞士郵政提供的服務正在支援他們的業務。從數據中可以看出，瑞士郵政顯然是瑞士非常大的企業。

Very much operating in the entirety of the country and driving vast volumes of logistics throughout the country, and we are very excited that we have been with Swiss Bo and alongside Swiss Post now for 10 years, and I think the Swiss this testimonial campaign as well demonstrating the strengths and delivery that we have done for this customer.

我們的業務範圍涵蓋整個國家，並在全國範圍內推動大量的物流運輸，我們非常高興與瑞士郵政和瑞士博合作已有 10 年，我認為瑞士的這次推薦活動也展示了我們為該客戶所提供的優勢和服務。

We also added new customers in the quarter, so we added, for example, the Aqua Group, the Parti Cinemas, the Volare Group, to name a few. And we also had important prolongations, so customers that have been with us and have prolonged their contracts like the airport of Zurich University Hospital of, Zurich, DA Tour, which is a touristic, company and also the tourau Cantona Bank.

本季我們也增加了新客戶，例如 Aqua Group、Parti Cinemas、Volare Group 等等。我們還進行了重要的合約延期，與我們有合作並延長合約的客戶包括蘇黎世機場、蘇黎世大學醫院、旅遊公司 DA Tour 以及圖勞坎通納銀行。

And again, we are excited about the momentum that we have in B2B and I think we are in a good position to further accelerate our growth in the B2B areas in the quarters to come.

再次，我們對 B2B 領域發展勢頭感到非常興奮，我認為我們有能力在未來幾季進一步加速 B2B 領域的成長。

Also, as I said already, at the beginning, we are very excited about the launch of 5GSA. Now, we are the first operator in Switzerland that has launched a 5G stand-alone.

另外，正如我一開始所說的，我們對 5GSA 的推出感到非常興奮。現在，我們是瑞士第一家推出5G獨立網路的營運商。

And furthermore, given the fact that we have rolled out this technology now to 99.5%, well, we've rolled out to our entire network and our entire 5G network is 99.5%O coverage. So this is not just a trial, but it's widely available in Switzerland and we are rolling it out now also to our customers. We have started with a soft launch now in the 2nd quarter, the beginning of the 2nd quarter. And on the back of that, we are also going to switch off our 3G network during the 2nd and 3rd quarter.

此外，鑑於我們現在已經將這項技術推廣到 99.5%，那麼，我們已經將其推廣到整個網絡，並且我們的整個 5G 網路覆蓋率為 99.5%。所以這不僅僅是一次試驗，而且它在瑞士廣泛可用，我們現在也正在向我們的客戶推出它。我們已於第二季度，也就是第二季度初開始試運行。在此基礎上，我們還將在第二季和第三季關閉我們的 3G 網路。

As a result of that, we will also be in a position to relocate spectrum to our 5G network, which will then further widen and expand our 5G coverage.

因此，我們也將能夠將頻譜重新分配到我們的 5G 網絡，從而進一步擴大和擴展我們的 5G 覆蓋範圍。

We are expecting that 5GSA will not only improve the coverage, but will also reduce battery consumption, will provide higher security and encryption standards. We will also be able to provide unique services based on the slicing technology that is only fully usable with the implementation of, 5GSA, and also, we will provide ultra reliable and low, latency communication tools. Now, this is, of course, an enabler technology and we are on the back of that expecting further commercial, launches during the course of this year and also in the next year.

我們期待5GSA不僅能提高覆蓋範圍，還能降低電池消耗，提供更高的安全性和加密標準。我們還將能夠提供基於切片技術的獨特服務，該服務只有在實施 5GSA 後才能完全使用，同時我們還將提供超可靠、低延遲的通訊工具。當然，這是一項推動技術，我們期待在今年和明年進一步商業化。

So very excited, of our technology leadership in this mobile area. As I said, I think we are pushing, the bar higher again in the Swiss market, and are positioning ourselves as a driver for this technology innovation.

我對我們在這個行動領域的技術領先地位感到非常興奮。正如我所說，我認為我們正在推動瑞士市場再次提高標準，並將自己定位為這項技術創新的推動者。

Now, with that, let me talk about the trading results in a bit more detail for the 1st quarter.

現在，讓我更詳細地談談第一季的交易結果。

As I said, trading came in a bit softer on the back of the reduced, intentionally reduced commercial trading activity, on the back of the price rises coming. And as a result, we have seen 12,000 net editions on the mobile postbis side and 5,000 net editions on the internet site.

正如我所說，由於商業交易活動的減少（有意減少）以及價格上漲，交易量有所減弱。結果，我們在行動版 Postbis 上看到了 12,000 個網路版本，在網路網站上看到了 5,000 個網路版本。

I think that is a pretty decent momentum.

我認為這是一個相當不錯的勢頭。

Despite the fact that we had significantly reduced our promotional activities in the first quarter. Our FMC quota has further increased to 58.3. That's 1.3 or 1.5% points over the course of the last year.

儘管我們在第一季大幅減少了促銷活動。我們的FMC配額進一步增加至58.3。與去年相比，這一數字增長了 1.3 或 1.5%。

And demonstrates that, convergence remains a key trend, supporting also our bundle product policy that we are driving. Apus, as you see on mobile, has been reducing to 28.6. So we have seen a reduction of CHF1.1, over the last year.

並表明融合仍然是一個關鍵趨勢，也支持我們正在推動的捆綁產品政策。正如您在行動裝置上看到的，Apus 已降至 28.6。因此，我們看到去年瑞士法郎的減少量為 1.1。

This is mainly driven by, booming, reductions that we have been seeing in the first quarter in particular. And on the back of that, the new product portfolio is intended to actually help with more for more, to drive back volume that we have lost from the variable consumption of roaming, and to drive higher prices by including more roaming in this new portfolio.

這主要是由於我們在第一季看到的大幅減少。在此基礎上，新的產品組合旨在真正幫助實現更多收益，減少漫遊變動消費造成的流量損失，並透過在新的產品組合中加入更多漫遊業務來提高價格。

Secondly, on the fixed side, also APU has declined to CHF58. That's clearly on the back of the annualization. Of the right pricing efforts that we are driving, we are now at around 12,000 remaining customers that still have to be migrated and as we said earlier, we are intending to finalize the migrations of those customers by the middle of the year.

其次，從固定方面來看，APU 也下降至 CHF58。這顯然是基於年度化的結果。在我們正在推動的正確定價努力中，現在我們仍有大約 12,000 名剩餘客戶需要遷移，正如我們之前所說，我們打算在今年年中完成這些客戶的遷移。

On top of that, there's also the fact that our flanker brand product is still growing on the internet side quite well. And given the APU differential between the first and the 2nd brand, there's also some balancing happening on the fixed APU that is impacting the total AU of the customer base that we are showing here. Now, I think on both on mobile and fixed, we are expecting a, sequential stabilization on the back of the price rises, on the mobile side, also on the back of the, introduction and the migration of customers onto the new more for more portfolio. On the fixed side, as well, we're expecting stabilization, price rises helping, but also the tailing off of the right pricing activities should help us throughout the year.

除此之外，我們的側翼品牌產品在網路方面仍然發展良好。考慮到第一和第二品牌之間的 APU 差異，固定 APU 上也會發生一些平衡，這會影響我們在此處顯示的客戶群的總 AU。現在，我認為，無論是行動還是固定電話，我們都預計，在價格上漲的推動下，行動方面將逐漸穩定下來，同時，隨著新業務組合的推出和客戶遷移，行動業務也將逐漸穩定下來。在固定方面，我們也期待穩定，價格上漲會有所幫助，正確的定價活動的逐漸減少也會對我們全年有所幫助。

And we are expecting actually that the volume of trading may be lower, at least in the first half on the back of all of the introductions that we did and on the introductions of the new portfolio. But we are also expecting that Auss on the back of this, will stabilize and will help our revenue then to achieve the guidance on the revenue end.

實際上，我們預計交易量可能會較低，至少在上半年，由於我們進行了所有介紹以及推出了新的投資組合，交易量可能會較低。但我們也預計，在此基礎上，澳元將會穩定下來，並幫助我們的收入實現收入的預期。

Now, with that, I'm handing over for Jany for the more detailed financials.

現在，我將把更詳細的財務數據交給 Jany。

Thank you, André, and also welcome from my side.

謝謝你，安德烈，我也代表我向你表示歡迎。

Before we start diving into the financials, let me remind everyone that the numbers that you're seeing on the pages are on a re-based basis. In Q1, there were two rebasing that we have laid out in a slide in the appendix. It doesn't change the revenue overall, but there was a shift from B2C customers to B2B as part of the legacy switch off of the UPC stack. And secondly, there was a product hierarchy reclassification that shifted some revenue from non-subscription to subscription. But as I said, all of the numbers and the year over year movements that you're seeing in the subsequent pages are net of that.

在我們開始深入研究財務狀況之前，請允許我提醒大家，您在頁面上看到的數字是基於重新計算的。在第一季度，我們進行了兩次重新調整，已在附錄的幻燈片中列出。它不會改變整體收入，但作為 UPC 堆疊傳統切換的一部分，客戶從 B2C 轉向 B2B。其次，產品層次結構重新分類，將部分收入從非訂閱轉移到訂閱。但正如我所說，您在後續頁面中看到的所有數字和同比變化都是扣除這些因素後的數據。

So with that, if we zoom into the revenue, the 3.3% that André already referred to is mostly driven by the lower non-subscription revenue in both fixed and mobile across B2C and B2B as well as the impact of the right pricing, in the residential as part of the UPC based migrations.

因此，如果我們放大收入，安德烈已經提到的 3.3% 主要是由於 B2C 和 B2B 領域固定和移動的非訂閱收入較低，以及作為基於 UPC 的遷移的一部分，住宅領域正確定價的影響。

Then that is partially offset by continued customer growth in the flanker brand, especially in the fixed part, and that is then tempering the revenue to wins.

然後，這部分被側翼品牌的持續客戶成長所抵消，特別是在固定部分，然後將收入轉化為勝利。

Then when we go to IETA, that is driven in part by a 1.3% decline in gross profit, as some of the revenue decline is tempered because of the lower margin, especially of the handset sales.

然後，當我們談到IETA時，部分原因是毛利下降了1.3％，因為部分收入下降由於利潤率較低而得到緩和，尤其是手機銷售。

With a slight improvement year over year in OPEC, which was in part driven by efficiencies and in part by phasing.

歐佩克的產量較去年同期略有改善，部分原因是由於效率的提高，部分原因是由於分階段實施。

Then when we go to adjusted IBITDA less B&E, you can see a slight decline, and although revenue was more of IBITDA was more or less flat, CapEx was higher, and that is in part because of the front loading of the network and the CPE related investments. So, purely phasing throughout the year rather than a sustained increase. When we get to adjust its free cash flow 117. And lower than prior year, which is then again driven by CapEx and two more things. One is the supplier payment phasings, and some other typical phasings in our in our seasonality and of course the interest payments that we typically do in Q1.

然後，當我們調整 IBITDA 減去 B&E 時，你會看到略有下降，儘管收入較多的 IBITDA 或多或少持平，但資本支出較高，部分原因是網絡的前期投入和 CPE 相關投資。因此，這只是全年分階段實施，而不是持續增加。當我們調整其自由現金流117時。並且低於上年，這又受到資本支出和另外兩件事的影響。一個是供應商付款分階段，以及我們季節性的一些其他典型分階段，當然還有我們通常在第一季進行的利息支付。

When we go to the revenue slide then, minus 3.3% or 25 million down year over year. What you can see here is that both the residential and the B2B other revenue or mostly non-subscription revenue constitute to 12 million decline, which isn't as part of the software takeoff of new product launches, both in mobile but also in TV where we had less TV gifting than what we typically do as part of our fixed subscription editions.

當我們看到收入下滑時，我們發現比去年同期下降了 3.3% 或 2500 萬美元。您可以在這裡看到，住宅和 B2B 其他收入或大部分非訂閱收入都下降了 1200 萬美元，這並不是由於新產品發布的軟體起飛，無論是在行動領域，還是在電視領域，我們的電視贈送量都比我們通常在固定訂閱版本中贈送的要少。

When we then zoom into residential subscription, you can still see the 50 million decline in the fixed subscription, which is driven by the right pricing on the one hand and by the brand mix between flanker and the main brand. Mobile 3i decline is in majority driven by the lower variable roaming usage.

當我們放大住宅訂閱量時，您仍然可以看到固定訂閱量下降了 5000 萬，這一方面是由於正確的定價，另一方面是由於側翼品牌和主品牌之間的品牌組合。移動 3i 業務的下滑主要是由於可變漫遊使用量的減少。

We expect the residential movement to further improve from here, and this was already an improvement versus what we had seen in H2 2024, in part because of the new portfolio, the mobile portfolio that André already spoke about.

我們預計住宅運動將從現在開始進一步改善，與我們在 2024 年下半年看到的情況相比，這已經有所改善，部分原因是新的投資組合，即 André 已經談到的行動投資組合。

Then also the deal went from the price increases, just to reiterate, the BTC main brand price increases set in these numbers for one month, whereas the flanker price flanker brand not at all yet.

然後交易也從價格上漲開始，只是重申一下，BTC 主品牌價格上漲設定在一個數字上持續了一個月，而側翼品牌的價格則根本沒有上漲。

And as we are finally through the customer migrations, we will still have about the 3 subsequent quarters impacted by the financial, the financially from the right pricing, but the actual commercial activities are behind us, and that is all partially offset by a continued growth in the flanker brand.

隨著我們最終完成客戶遷移，我們仍然會在接下來的 3 個季度受到財務、正確定價的影響，但實際的商業活動已經過去，而這一切都被側翼品牌的持續成長所部分抵消。

When we focus on B2B, on the one hand, we see continued growth in the large enterprise segment. However, that was slightly softer than what we saw in the prior quarters, and that had to do with the big one-off deal that we did in 2024, which of course has now been annualized. And secondly, we did see mobile lower liquidity in the market.

當我們關注 B2B 時，一方面，我們看到大型企業領域持續成長。然而，這比前幾季的表現略有疲軟，這與我們在 2024 年達成的一次性大交易有關，當然現在已經實現年度化。其次，我們確實看到行動市場流動性較低。

So when we then zoom to IIO, revenue declined significantly tempered down to gross profit in part because of the lower margin of the handsets that I already referred to. And then also in B2B you can see that the revenue growth was further accelerated by a number of reductions in direct cost and a solid MBNO performance.

因此，當我們放大到 IIO 時，收入大幅下降，毛利有所下降，部分原因是我已經提到的手機利潤率較低。然後在 B2B 領域，您可以看到，由於直接成本的大幅降低和 MBNO 績效的穩健成長，收入成長得到了進一步加速。

The growth that you see in infra is in part due to the phasing of direct cost in relation to the network build that we're doing and then monetizing with our infrastructure partner Celmex.

您在基礎設施方面看到的成長部分歸因於我們正在進行的網路建設相關的直接成本的分階段降低，然後與我們的基礎設施合作夥伴 Celmex 一起實現貨幣化。

OEX, you can see a 7 million decline year over year, and I would classify half of those savings approximately as hard savings and the other half as phasing mostly into Q2, and that has to do with some of the marketing activities that we are driving.

OEX，您可以看到同比下降了 700 萬，我認為這些節省的一半大致歸類為硬性節省，另一半則主要分階段進入第二季度，這與我們正在推動的一些行銷活動有關。

Leasing, you can see a net increase, albeit that is again different phasing of the excess costs, whereas the underlying leases are increasing due to switch, due to shifts or into the excess line, or the allo deal that we have with Swiss call.

租賃，你可以看到淨增長，儘管這又是超額成本的不同階段，而基礎租賃由於轉換、輪班或進入超額線路，或我們與瑞士呼叫達成的分配交易而增加。

Then when we get to slide number 14 and focusing on the adjusted Ebide less B&E and adjusted FCF.

然後，當我們翻到第 14 張投影片時，我們會專注於調整後的 Ebide（減去 B&E）和調整後的 FCF。

What you see on the left side is the adjust the EBAS B&E additions. We have now given you more granularity on the buckets of CapEx, how we look at it. So with CPE coverage, capacity, product and enables and baseline, we will continue to report these categories going forward, and this is the way how we look at the spend of our CapEx. And I think here again, as I referenced to it already before, you see that the decrease on the Jodi Ballapiy additions comes solely from the higher CapEx, which, as I referred to already, is due to the phasing full year we expect a slight reduction of CapEx as we have guided for versus prior year.

您在左側看到的是調整 EBAS B&E 附加項。現在，我們向您提供了有關資本支出各個方面的更詳細信息，以及我們如何看待它。因此，透過 CPE 覆蓋範圍、容量、產品和支援以及基線，我們將繼續報告這些類別，這就是我們看待資本支出的方式。我再次思考，正如我之前提到的那樣，您會看到 Jodi Ballapiy 增加的減少完全來自更高的資本支出，正如我已經提到的那樣，這是由於全年分階段進行的，我們預計資本支出將略有減少，正如我們對去年同期的預期。

And when we get to adjust the FCF on the right, we spoke about CapEx already. The interest growth that you're seeing here is still in relation to the debt reduction that we did in Q4. So in Q4, we actually paid down the debt, but as everybody I guess is aware, we have the both the ethics and the interest rates fully hedged. And what you see here, the higher costs were in relation to the to the retirement of the derivative instruments in relation to the debt reduction of Q4. So basically we paid, we retired some of the instruments and some of those instruments were in the money and so therefore there was a cash outflow. However, if you look at the underlying reduction, and therefore the third party debt obligations, they have actually gone down and so therefore, the $7 million is a one-off, if you will, that is not expected to recur.

當我們調整右側的 FCF 時，我們已經討論了資本支出。您在此處看到的利息增長仍然與我們在第四季度進行的債務削減有關。因此，在第四季度，我們實際上償還了債務，但我想大家都知道，我們已經完全對沖了道德和利率。您在這裡看到的是，更高的成本與第四季度債務減少相關的衍生工具的退出有關。所以基本上我們支付了款項，退出了一些工具，其中一些工具是價內的，因此出現了現金流出。然而，如果你看一下潛在的減少，以及第三方債務義務，它們實際上已經下降了，因此，700 萬美元是一次性的，如果你願意的話，預計不會再次發生。

Tax largely unchanged, and I think important to note here that on an adjusted FCF basis, we exclude the tax settlement that is in relation to the past because that was pre-funded by Liberty Global, when we did the spinoff, and secondly, it is a non-recurrent event. I'll give you some more detail later in the presentation on the actual tax settlement.

稅收基本上沒有變化，我認為需要在此指出的是，在調整後的自由現金流基礎上，我們排除了與過去相關的稅收結算，因為那是在我們進行分拆時由 Liberty Global 預先資助的，其次，這是非經常性事件。我稍後會在示範中向您詳細介紹實際的稅務結算情況。

Lastly, networking capital significantly down. 18 million of that is in relation to leases, which is, as I spoke to earlier already, is facing the other part is higher supplier payments that we typically have there and vendor financing repayments. All in all, as we have guided for, we expect this to normalize throughout the year.

最後，網路資本大幅下降。其中 1800 萬與租賃有關，正如我之前提到的，另一部分是我們通常需要支付的更高的供應商付款和供應商融資償還款。總而言之，正如我們所預期的，我們預計這種情況將在全年恢復正常。

Go down to the next page.

向下翻到下一頁。

André referred to it already, but in general, we are confirming all of our financial metrics with revenue broadly stable, adjusted EBTA stable to low single digit growth, CapEx accepts 15 to 16%, and then leading to a free cash flow of 3 370 to 390 million. And lastly, upon achieving those guidance, we expect to propose a dividend of 3.42 for the Class A shares or $0.34 for the Class B shares that are there. Lastly, I'd like to reiterate the fact that the growth metrics that you're seeing here for revenue and especially EIO are in relation to the re-based 2024 numbers, which include an approximately 30 million higher cost for 2024, which is in relation to all of the standalone items which we have spoken about before.

André 已經提到了這一點，但總的來說，我們確認所有財務指標均保持穩定，收入大致穩定，調整後的 EBTA 保持低個位數增長，資本支出增長 15% 至 16%，從而帶來 33.7 億至 3.9 億的自由現金流。最後，在實現這些指引後，我們預計將為 A 類股票發放 3.42 美元的股息，或為 B 類股票發放 0.34 美元的股息。最後，我想重申一下，您在這裡看到的收入和特別是 EIO 的成長指標與重新制定的 2024 年數字有關，其中包括 2024 年約 3000 萬美元的更高成本，這與我們之前討論過的所有獨立項目有關。

All right. So if we then go to my last slide. Two things to update you on. On the one hand, we paid the dividend actually today after it was improved during the AGM last week. I spoke already about the growth of 2.7% expected, and lastly, which is now also fully confirmed after the completion of the AGM. The dividends were paid out from foreign capital reserves, which means that they are not subject to Swiss withholding tax or in general for Swiss personal residents are fully tax excluded.

好的。那我們就來看最後一張投影片。有兩件事需要向大家通報。一方面，我們在上週的年度股東大會上提高了股息，今天就實際支付了股息。我已經談到了預期的 2.7% 的成長，最後，在年度股東大會結束後，這一目標也得到了充分確認。這些股息是從外匯資本儲備中支付的，這意味著它們不需繳納瑞士預扣稅，或者一般來說，對於瑞士個人居民來說，完全免稅。

And lastly then, and we haven't disclosed this amount before, the remaining amount after the 2024 dividend payout is approximately 2.58 billion in reserves that then can be used to pay dividends on a tax-free basis on a Swiss withholding tax basis.

最後，我們之前沒有披露過這個金額，2024 年股息支付後的剩餘金額約為 25.8 億儲備金，這些儲備金可用於在瑞士預扣稅基礎上免稅支付股息。

Then lastly, on the right, you can see the sort of the remaining process that we're envisaging in relation to the ADS.

最後，在右側，您可以看到我們設想的與 ADS 相關的剩餘流程。

So by now, 82% of the Class A ADSs have been canceled and 98% of the Class B. We can see that the volumes in the Swiss line have nicely and subsequently improved and are now on a daily basis, accounting for more than a majority of the total traded shares.

因此，到目前為止，82% 的 A 類 ADS 已被取消，98% 的 B 類 ADS 已被取消。我們可以看到，瑞士線的交易量已得到良好的後續改善，現在每天的交易量佔總交易股數的絕大部分以上。

As part of the IPO, we had said that we intended to switch that listing off from the Nasdaq nine months after, which we are now confirming that the ADS listing was always only envisaged as a means to distribute the shares to our shareholders, but the original hypothesis, of course, was always that this share was better traded in Switzerland locally than on the Nasdaq.

作為 IPO 的一部分，我們曾表示打算在九個月後從納斯達克轉移上市，現在我們確認，ADS 上市始終只是將股票分配給股東的一種手段，但最初的假設當然是，該股票在瑞士本地交易比在納斯達克交易更有利。

Once we de-list the ADS Class A ADS from the Nasdaq, then it's our intention to terminate the sponsorship of both ADS programs 90 days after the last trading, which then further reduces, if you will, the level of support for the ADSs, and by then. You can only trade the ADSs on an over the counter basis in the US.

一旦我們將 ADS 類 ADS 從納斯達克退市，我們打算在最後一次交易後 90 天終止對這兩個 ADS 計劃的贊助，這將進一步降低對 ADS 的支持水平，到那時。您只能在美國場外交易 ADS。

And then lastly, we intend to apply for the deregistration with the US Securities and Exchange Commissions following the delisting and determin delisting and then the retraction of the sponsorship. And by doing that, we are terminating the reporting obligations under the SEC, which then will further simplify our operating model and also reduce cost in relation to debt.

最後，我們打算在退市之後向美國證券交易委員會申請註銷註冊，並確定退市，然後撤銷保薦。透過這樣做，我們將終止美國證券交易委員會的報告義務，這將進一步簡化我們的營運模式並降低與債務相關的成本。

We expect that termination to happen approximately 12 months after the original delisting, and it has to do with the fact of certain requirements that have to be fulfilled in terms of where the volumes of shares are trading across the world before the SEC will accept the deregistration, if you will. And so with that, I give it back to you, André.

我們預計終止將在最初退市後約 12 個月發生，並且與必須滿足某些要求有關，這些要求涉及全球股票交易量，在美國證券交易委員會接受註銷之前，如果您願意的話。因此，我把它還給你，安德烈。

Yeah, thanks, Jany. And, before we open up for Q&A, let me just quickly summarize, one more time. So, firstly, I would say we have landed, the price rise well, and successfully. Again, we have been leading the market by going first, but I, by now, all of our competitors have followed, and I think this displaying, the leadership role and also the pricing power that we think we have. Our new portfolio is a more for more fo portfolio which has a higher list prices than before.

是的，謝謝，Jany。在我們開始問答之前，請容許我再快速總結。因此，首先我想說我們已經著陸，價格上漲得很好，而且很成功。再說一次，我們一直領先於市場，但到目前為止，我們所有的競爭對手都已經跟進，我認為這展示了我們的領導地位以及我們認為擁有的定價能力。我們的新投資組合更具吸引力，其標價比以前更高。

Again, I think all of the movements are demonstrating our drive for value, which has come in the 1st quarter with somewhat softer trading, and we are also expecting a somewhat softer trading to continue for the 2nd quarter on the back of that. Nevertheless, the price increase, which has not yet left their mark really in our financials, will support a improvement on Apple as we go along. And will help to drive value and revenues for the rest of the year.

再次，我認為所有的動向都表明了我們對價值的追求，這種追求在第一季度出現了交易略微疲軟的現象，並且我們預計在第二季度交易將繼續略微疲軟。儘管如此，價格上漲尚未對我們的財務狀況產生真正的影響，但會隨著時間的推移支持蘋果的改善。並將有助於推動今年剩餘時間的價值和收入。

We have also again demonstrated technology leadership by going first to a 5G standalone network that now covers 99.5% of Switzerland, and I guess with that we are not only the first in Switzerland, but from a reach of that network, we are probably one of the first in Europe that is doing that, and on the back of that, there will be a variety of benefits to our customers that we will exploit going forward.

我們也再次證明了我們的技術領先地位，率先推出了覆蓋瑞士 99.5% 地區的 5G 獨立網絡，我想我們不僅是瑞士第一家，而且從該網絡的覆蓋範圍來看，我們可能是歐洲首批這樣做的公司之一，在此基礎上，我們將在未來為客戶帶來各種好處。

As Jany showed in detail, our financials are on track, which, gives us the opportunity to fully confirm our financial guidance for the year, and again, including also an increase of our dividend.

正如 Jany 詳細展示的那樣，我們的財務狀況良好，這使我們有機會充分確認今年的財務指導，並再次包括增加股息。

To CHF3.42 for the year '25, which I think is, again, also demonstrating the financial strength of the business, going forward. With that, we closed the presentation and I'll ask the operator to start the Q&A.

25 年為 3.42 瑞士法郎，我認為這再次證明了該企業未來的財務實力。演示就此結束，我將請操作員開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Andrew Lee, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指示）高盛的 Andrew Lee。

Good morning, everyone. I had two questions. Thanks for the, detail you gave on your, price adjustments in Q1. Just wondering if you could talk about what, how you see the broader competitive environment. And how you've seen that kind of response from competitors in particularly in residential mobile and fixed just to give it context, Swisscom spoke about it a couple of weeks ago and said it hadn't really seen any change in the degree of competitive intensity on residential fixed, but had seen small kind of signs of slight increase in or improvement on on the mobile side.

大家早安。我有兩個問題。感謝您提供的有關第一季價格調整的詳細資訊。只是想知道您是否可以談談您如何看待更廣泛的競爭環境。您如何看待競爭對手的反應，特別是在住宅移動和固定領域？為了提供背景信息，瑞士電信幾週前談到了這個問題，並表示它並沒有真正看到住宅固定領域的競爭強度有任何變化，但看到了移動方面略有增加或改善的跡象。

That's kind of first question. Then the second question is just related to that. You talked about lower promotional spend in Q1. Can you just explain exactly why you would reduce promotional spend through the price rise, process, and then should we expect promotional spend to increase again in Q2 back to normalized levels? How should we think about that? Thank you.

這是第一個問題。那麼第二個問題就與此相關。您談到第一季的促銷支出較低。您能否具體解釋為什麼要透過漲價來減少促銷支出，以及流程，然後我們是否應該預期促銷支出在第二季會再次增加到正常水平？我們該如何看待這個問題？謝謝。

Yeah, thanks, Andrew, for those questions. So let me talk to the, competitive environment and how we see it evolving. I think I would clearly echo that we see on mobile that the net prices, if you deduct the promotional period. Have gone up, over the last couple of months. I think post-Black Friday, there's some rationalization happening. Still, I think there's also a number of smaller players out there that are still operating at low price points. I think the situation is kind of fragile, so everybody has understood that the direction of travel should be that we can't continue to just drive prices down. Elasticity is actually declining, given the fact that prices have come down substantially over the last couple of years.

是的，安德魯，謝謝你提出這些問題。那麼，讓我來談談競爭環境以及我們對其發展的看法。我想我會清楚地重申，如果扣除促銷期，我們在行動裝置上看到的是淨價。在過去的幾個月裡有所上漲。我認為黑色星期五之後，會出現一些合理化的情況。不過，我認為還有很多規模較小的公司仍在以低價營運。我認為情況有點脆弱，所以每個人都明白，前進的方向應該是不能繼續壓低價格。考慮到過去幾年價格大幅下降，彈性實際上正在下降。

And as a result, now we're, I think, at a turning point where we have to rationalize our pricing behavior. It's good to see that the price rises have been, taken on also by our competitors. We would have not expected Swisscom to do that with the main brand, but they did with Wingo. I think that all is indicating towards the right direction. On fixed, I'm also not surprised that the promotional intensity has remained the same. In fact, prices have also not been moving for the last, I would say 3 years, right? So if you look at the net prices that are resulting, then I think there's little movement on that, which has also to do with the wholesale nature of most of the fiber networks. So there is a natural limit to what can be can be priced.

因此，我認為，我們現在正處於一個轉折點，必須合理化我們的定價行為。很高興看到我們的競爭對手也接受了價格上漲。我們原本沒想到瑞士電信會對主品牌這麼做，但他們卻對 Wingo 這麼做了。我認為一切都在朝著正確的方向發展。就固定而言，促銷強度保持不變我並不感到驚訝。事實上，我想說過去 3 年價格也沒有變動，對嗎？因此，如果你看一下由此產生的淨價格，那麼我認為它幾乎沒有什麼變動，這也與大多數光纖網路的批發性質有關。因此，對於可定價的東西，存在著天然的限制。

But on that, on those levels, it has been quite stable, I would say. So therefore, I would also not see that there's increasing aggression on any of that. So from our point of view, a fragile moment because, everybody is trying to get in the right direction. But everybody is also needing to, then deal with lower volumes on the back of it. Liquidity is not necessarily growing. If the only feature that was stipulating liquidity in the past, which was price promotions, is being reduced. Now that's exactly where we are turning, towards a, main brand strategy that is more looking towards innovation, service, and loyalty.

但我想說，就這一點而言，在那些層面上，它一直相當穩定。因此，我也不認為任何此類行為的攻擊性會增強。因此從我們的角度來看，這是一個脆弱的時刻，因為每個人都在努力朝著正確的方向前進。但每個人也都需要處理背後的較低交易量。流動性不一定會成長。如果過去規定流動性的唯一特徵，即價格促銷，正在被減少。現在，我們正轉向更加重視創新、服務和忠誠度的主要品牌策略。

And of course price will continue to play a role, but it can't be the only argument going forward. That's how I would depict the competitive environment and maybe only on the promotional spend. You want to take that one?

當然，價格仍將繼續發揮作用，但它不能成為未來唯一的決定因素。這是我對競爭環境的描述，或許只限於促銷支出。你想拿那個嗎？

Yeah, sure. Well, I think why one would reduce promotional intensity when you're doing the price increase, I think André referred to it already, it's that when you are bringing up the prices, not sure you want to use then a lot of above the line marketing to to shout about new promotions would typically come at a discount. And so I think that's the commercial reason behind it. I think like I said during the IEA slide of the 7 million, approximately 3.5 million is phasing, of which of the marketing campaigns is one. I think the way to think about it is that 3.5 million hires of lower spend that we saw in Q1 is supposed to come back throughout the year, and marketing campaigns is a large element of that but not the only one, just to put that into context.

是的，當然。好吧，我認為為什麼在漲價時要減少促銷力度，我想安德烈已經提到了這一點，那是因為當你提高價格時，不確定你是否想使用很多線上行銷來宣傳新的促銷活動通常會有折扣。所以我認為這是背後的商業原因。我認為，就像我在 IEA 700 萬的幻燈片中所說的那樣，大約有 350 萬正在分階段實施，其中行銷活動就是其中之一。我認為應該這樣想：我們在第一季看到的 350 萬個較低支出的招聘應該會在全年恢復，而行銷活動是其中的一個重要因素，但不是唯一的因素，只是把它放在背景中來看。

Thanks, that's really helpful.

謝謝，這真的很有幫助。

Polo Tang, UBS.

瑞銀的 Polo Tang。

Hi, thanks for the presentation. I've got three quick questions. The first one is at the end of the remarks you flagged softer trading in Q2. So can I just clarify, was this a reference to net ads because I'm assuming that your revenues will have the benefit of price rises and your new more for more portfolio.

你好，謝謝你的演講。我有三個簡單的問題。第一個是在評論的最後您提到了第二季的交易疲軟。因此，我可以澄清一下，這是否是指網路廣告，因為我假設您的收入將受益於價格上漲和新的「更多換更多」的投資組合。

Second question, just continuing on revenues in Q1, you saw a decline. In terms of handsets, hardware, or your non-subscription revenues, this is obviously lower margin, but I'm just curious in terms of how we should think about the evolution of this line in the next few quarters. My final question is just on your plans to delist the ADSs in August, just given reduced reporting requirements, just trying to work out whether this could be a notable saving or not and how quickly could this feed through into numbers. Thanks.

第二個問題，繼續看第一季的收入，您發現收入有所下降。就手機、硬體或非訂閱收入而言，這顯然是較低的利潤率，但我只是好奇我們應該如何看待未來幾季這條產品線的發展。我的最後一個問題是，鑑於報告要求的減少，您計劃在 8 月退市 ADS，只是想弄清楚這是否能帶來顯著的節省，以及這能多快轉化為數字。謝謝。

Yeah, poolo, thanks for your questions. So on the Q2 trading remark that clearly was, related to the trading in terms of physical, so not in terms of revenue. You're absolutely right. The revenue will have the benefit of the price rises really coming through for in full for the first time only with the Q2 numbers and from there on. In terms of volume, as I said, Liquidity, given that promotional activity has been reduced and prices have gone up, is slightly coming down, and hence we are also not expecting that the Q2, net figure will be a very high one. And we rather expect it to be on softer levels and that's absolutely fine from our perspective, given the fact that we are benefiting from the price measures that we have taken, in terms of revenue generation.

是的，poolo，謝謝你的提問。因此，關於第二季交易的評論顯然與實物交易有關，而不是與收入有關。你完全正確。價格上漲帶來的收益將隨著第二季數據的公佈而首次完全體現。就交易量而言，正如我所說，由於促銷活動減少且價格上漲，流動性略有下降，因此我們也不預期第二季的淨額會很高。我們更希望價格處於較溫和的水平，從我們的角度來看，這絕對沒問題，因為就創收而言，我們已採取的價格措施讓我們受益匪淺。

And then hardware you listening, and you're going to take this too?

然後硬體你在聽，你也要接受這個嗎？

Yeah, sure, no problem. Well, if you look at, The non-subscription declined as part of the Q1 results. They were significantly going down on a percentage basis and we, that is in part because also some of the new launches happen typically in Q1 from some of the providers, which I think we're not as strong this year and we don't expect that sort of percentage wise decline to continue throughout the year. We expect that to normalize throughout the coming year and of course, nobody knows how the new Apple launch is going to be later this year, and of course, we expect, let's say a more temperate decline if you will.

是的，當然沒問題。嗯，如果你看一下，非訂閱量作為第一季業績的一部分有所下降。它們的比例大幅下降，部分原因是一些供應商通常在第一季推出一些新產品，我認為今年我們的表現不那麼強勁，我們預計這種比例下降不會持續全年。我們預計這種情況將在來年恢復正常，當然，沒有人知道今年晚些時候蘋果的新產品會如何推出，當然，我們預計，如果願意的話，下降幅度會比較溫和。

Then on the deregistration, Two things. So yes, there's absolutely school savings that will occur as part of that, but those will only at first start to appear in 2026 because what is important to note there's effectively three steps in the deregistration process. So first is the delisting of the Nasdaq.

然後關於註銷，有兩件事。所以是的，學校肯定會因此節省開支，但這些開支要到 2026 年才會開始顯現，因為值得注意的是，註銷過程實際上分為三個步驟。首先是納斯達克的退市。

Then secondly is the retraction of the sponsorship which then sort of makes the program not sponsored by us anymore, and then thirdly, is the deregistration from the SEC obligations, which can only happen. First time 12 months after the delisting of the Nasdaq because basically what the SEC says is that the trading volumes in the US versus the rest of the world have to significantly reduce so that there is no exposure anymore for US investors, if you will, after which. Can then stop to report under US law and to US in terms of all of the requirements that come with that. So yes, there will be savings. We'll talk to those to you as we give guidance for 2026 because they don't impact the 2025 financials, if you will.

其次，就是撤銷贊助，這樣一來，該計畫就不再由我們贊助了；第三，就是取消美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 的義務註冊，這是必然的。這是納斯達克退市 12 個月後首次出現這種情況，因為美國證券交易委員會的基本意思是，美國相對於世界其他地區的交易量必須大幅減少，這樣美國投資者就不再有機會投資。然後可以停止根據美國法律和美國隨之而來的所有要求進行報告。所以是的，會有節省。我們將在提供 2026 年指導時與您討論這些問題，因為它們不會影響 2025 年的財務狀況。

(Operator Instructions) Maurice Patrick, Barclays.

（操作員指示）巴克萊銀行的莫里斯·帕特里克。

Oh, good morning, guys. Thank you for taking the question. Just a couple from my side, please. The first one really is just a technical question if you could provide the split of your net ads on the main brand and the sort of yellow brand would be helpful.

哦，大家早安。感謝您回答這個問題。請從我這邊挑選幾位吧。第一個問題實際上只是一個技術問題，如果您可以提供主品牌和黃色品牌的網路廣告劃分情況，那將會很有幫助。

The second question relates to, just phasing of revenues in Apu. So if I'm not wrong, you've gotten to broadly stable revenues. You were down 3% Q1. You've talked about a soft net a quarter, so presumably 2Q could be, yeah, minus 2% to 3%, maybe depending on the equipment volumes you spoke to. I mean, the price increase is relatively small. I'd love to understand the phasing of the ARPA and the revenues throughout the year. That'd be very helpful.

第二個問題與 Apu 的收入分階段有關。所以如果我沒錯的話，你們的收入大致穩定。第一季你們的業績下降了 3%。您談到了季度軟淨值，因此推測第二季度可能會下降 2% 到 3%，這可能取決於您談到的設備數量。我的意思是，價格上漲幅度相對較小。我很想了解 ARPA 的分階段情況和全年的收入。那將會非常有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

All right, thanks for your question, Maurice. Well, we are not splitting out the NetApps by brand, but I would say that there's no change either, right? I mean, you remember that as part of the IPO of the listing, we were talking a bit about of how the dynamics between the different brands are. That's pretty stable, but we continue not to share, detailed net figures by brand.

好的，謝謝你的提問，莫里斯。嗯，我們不會以品牌劃分 NetApps，但我想說也沒有變化，對嗎？我的意思是，您還記得，作為上市 IPO 的一部分，我們談論了不同品牌之間的動態。這個數字相當穩定，但我們仍然不分享按品牌劃分的詳細淨數據。

And for the phasing of revenues, yanny, you want to take the one? Yeah.

對於收入的分階段分配，yanny，你想採取一種方式嗎？是的。

Sure. So the, I think like I said on the revenue, half of the decline that we saw approximately in 11 was driven to the hardware or hardware related revenues. And like I answered on polo, we expected to significantly normalize over the quarters. So with debt, if you will, on a normalized basis, the revenue decline was not 3. Or the 3.3% that we saw was only half driven by. Subscription revenues, which then if you phase in the fact that we don't have really the price increase of 1.5% to 1.8% on a large part of those subscription revenues that have to come through.

當然。所以，我認為就像我所說的那樣，我們在 11 年看到的大約一半的下降是由於硬體或硬體相關收入造成的。正如我在馬球問題上回答的那樣，我們預計本季業績將顯著恢復正常。因此，如果你願意的話，就債務而言，在正常化的基礎上，收入下降幅度不會是 3。或者說，我們看到的 3.3% 只是由一半推動的。訂閱收入，如果你逐步意識到我們實際上並沒有將大部分訂閱收入的價格提高 1.5% 到 1.8%。

Secondly, the fact that the right pricing is going to tamer in terms of year over year impact on the subsequent quarters in the year. And then I don't want to sort of speculate here around the commercial performance that we are going to have in the outer quarters, but as André said, that we are excited about some of the launches that we're doing. So of course those sit in our plans as well then in terms of the expectations for the quarter. So I hope that helps you to sort of frame how the revenue is going to trend throughout the quarters.

其次，正確的定價將會對當年隨後幾季的年比影響產生較小的影響。然後我不想在這裡猜測我們在外圍季度的商業表現，但正如安德烈所說，我們對正在進行的一些發布感到興奮。因此，就本季的預期而言，這些當然也在我們的計畫中。所以我希望這能幫助您了解各季度的收入趨勢。

Yeah, thanks for that. Maybe it's a very quick follow up. Would it be fair to assume you're expecting most of the price increase there for the drop through to the bottom line to A.

是的，謝謝。也許這是一個非常快速的後續行動。是否可以公平地假設，您預計大部分價格上漲將導致底線跌至 A。

Yeah, look, most is a wide range, and I'm happy to confirm that most, if you will, I think they they spoke about it that we are very happy with how the price increase has evolved. We actually saw the result of it was better than expectations. I don't think we maybe want to say anything more about the percentages, but.

是的，看，大多數是一個廣泛的範圍，我很高興地確認大多數，如果你願意的話，我認為他們談到了這一點，我們對價格上漲的演變感到非常高興。我們確實看到了比預期更好的結果。我認為我們可能不想再談論百分比了，但是。

I think most clearly the right term.

我認為這個術語顯然是正確的。

I mean 1.8% and 1.5% is also not massive increases.

我的意思是 1.8% 和 1.5% 也並不是大幅成長。

So the counter effects have been relatively small and he, yeah, we are expecting that most of the price rise impact is going to land, in our revenues and then the bottom line.

因此，反作用相對較小，是的，我們預期價格上漲的大部分影響將體現在我們的收入和利潤上。

Thanks guys.

謝謝大家。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Alex Hermann for any closing remarks. Please go ahead.

女士們、先生們，這是最後一個問題。現在，我想將會議交還給亞歷克斯·赫爾曼 (Alex Hermann) 做結束語。請繼續。

So thank you all very much for attending today's call. I think that concludes, the call for today. As always, if there are any further questions, please, to reach out to the investor relations team.

非常感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。我想今天的呼籲就到此結束了。與往常一樣，如果有任何其他問題，請聯絡投資者關係團隊。

Thank you and all have a good day and a week ahead.

謝謝大家，祝大家有個愉快的一天和愉快的一周。