Sun Country Airlines Holdings Inc (SNCY) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello and welcome to the Sun Country Airlines First Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. My name is Andrew, and I'll be your operator for today's call.

您好，歡迎參加太陽鄉村航空 2023 年第一季度財報電話會議。我叫安德魯，我將擔任您今天通話的接線員。

(Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。

I will now turn the call over to Chris Allen, Director of Investor Relations. Mr. Allen, you may begin.

我現在將把電話轉給投資者關係總監克里斯艾倫。艾倫先生，您可以開始了。

Thank you. I'm joined today by Jude Bricker, Chief Executive Officer; David Davis, President and Chief Financial Officer and a group of others to help answer questions.

謝謝。今天，首席執行官裘德·布里克 (Jude Bricker) 也加入了我的行列。總裁兼首席財務官戴維·戴維斯 (David Davis) 和其他一些人幫助回答問題。

Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone that during this call, the company may make certain statements that constitute forward-looking statements. Our remarks today may include forward-looking statements that are based upon management's current beliefs, expectations and assumptions and are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially. We encourage you to review the risk factors and cautionary statements outlined in our earnings release and our most recent SEC filings. We assume no obligation to update any forward-looking statements. You can find our first quarter earnings press release on the Investor Relations portion of our website at ir.suncountry.com.

在開始之前，我想提醒大家，在這次電話會議中，公司可能會做出某些構成前瞻性陳述的陳述。我們今天的言論可能包括基於管理層當前信念、期望和假設的前瞻性陳述，並受到風險和不確定性的影響。實際結果可能存在重大差異。我們鼓勵您查看我們的收益報告和最新的 SEC 文件中概述的風險因素和警示聲明。我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。您可以在我們網站 ir.suncountry.com 的投資者關係部分找到我們第一季度收益新聞稿。

With that said, I'd now like to turn the call over to Jude.

話雖如此，我現在想把電話轉給裘德。

Thank you, Chris. Good morning, everyone. Our diversified business model is unique in the airline industry. Due to the predictability of our charter and cargo businesses, we're able to deliver the most flexible scheduled service capacity in the industry. The combination of our schedule flexibility and low fixed cost model allows us to respond to both predictable leisure demand fluctuations and exogenous industry shocks. We believe due to our structural advantages, we'll be able to reliably deliver the industry-leading profitability throughout all cycles.

謝謝你，克里斯。大家，早安。我們的多元化業務模式在航空業中是獨一無二的。由於我們的包機和貨運業務的可預測性，我們能夠提供業內最靈活的定期服務能力。我們的日程安排靈活性和低固定成本模式相結合，使我們能夠應對可預測的休閒需求波動和外生行業衝擊。我們相信，由於我們的結構優勢，我們將能夠在所有周期中可靠地提供行業領先的盈利能力。

Core to our low-frequency model is being able to deliver excellent operational results. And again, we've done that and through a difficult winter. We finished the quarter with 99.9% controllable completion factor in our scheduled service. Thank you to all our team members working every day to deliver for our customers.

我們低頻模型的核心是能夠提供出色的運營結果。我們再次做到了這一點，並度過了一個艱難的冬天。我們以 99.9% 的預定服務可控完成率結束了本季度。感謝我們所有每天為客戶提供服務的團隊成員。

I'm proud to announce our first quarter adjusted operating margin of 20%. I get plenty of questions from the investment community about what Sun Country results would look like in a normalized environment. I thought it would be helpful to highlight some of the conditions in the first quarter, which are rare historically.

我很自豪地宣布我們第一季度調整後的營業利潤率為 20%。我從投資界收到很多關於太陽國在正常化環境下的業績會是什麼樣子的問題。我認為強調第一季度的一些情況會有所幫助，這些情況在歷史上是罕見的。

First, fuel prices in the quarter were high. I'm not taking a market position on fuel. We manage fuel prices with our variable capacity model. Further, about 40% of our flying has fuel as a pass-through. I want to point out, however, that during peak periods like March, we fly as much as we're able. So fuel prices during that time are passed through directly to results. Today, we're buying fuel about 60% cheaper than we were in the first quarter average price.

首先，本季度燃油價格較高。我不會對燃料採取市場立場。我們通過可變容量模型來管理燃油價格。此外，我們約 40% 的飛行需要消耗燃油。不過，我想指出的是，在三月這樣的高峰期，我們會盡可能多地飛行。因此，該時期的燃油價格將直接反映到結果中。今天，我們購買的燃料比第一季度平均價格便宜約 60%。

Secondly, we had particularly challenging weather this winter in Minneapolis. Challenging weather isn't rare, but our network is focused on Minneapolis this time of year, and the Twin Cities had one of the top snowfall winters on record. That's probably good for demand but drives a lot of costs in our business. We had 2 major snowstorms that shut down Minneapolis Airport, which is rare. The resulting cancels from these closures negatively affected results by several million dollars.

其次，今年冬天明尼阿波利斯的天氣特別具有挑戰性。惡劣的天氣並不罕見，但每年這個時候我們的網絡都集中在明尼阿波利斯，雙子城的冬季降雪量是有記錄以來最高的之一。這可能有利於需求，但會增加我們業務的大量成本。兩次大暴風雪導致明尼阿波利斯機場關閉，這很罕見。這些關閉所導致的取消對業績產生了數百萬美元的負面影響。

Some regions of our network posted uncommon results that I don't think we should expect to be recurring. West Florida is a big part of our network this time of year. The region continues to recover from Hurricane Ian. We expect the region to be back next year with higher unit revenues and capacity.

我們網絡的某些區域發布了不常見的結果，我認為我們不應該期望這些結果會再次出現。每年這個時候，西佛羅里達州都是我們網絡的重要組成部分。該地區繼續從伊恩颶風中恢復過來。我們預計該地區明年將以更高的單位收入和產能回歸。

Minneapolis International in contrast was particularly strong this year. 1Q '22 was affected by Omicron, so year-over-year improvement was dramatic. I expect international capacity growth to moderate this region's TRASM in the future.

相比之下，明尼阿波利斯國際機場今年的表現尤其強勁。 22 年第一季度受到 Omicron 的影響，因此同比改善非常顯著。我預計國際運力增長將在未來緩和該地區的 TRASM。

Finally, and most impactful, we remain block hour-constrained due to staffing. In 1Q '19, we flew our aircraft 9.7 block hours per aircraft day on average. This quarter, our utilization was 7.3. Increasing flying on the same fleet will have substantial positive impact on results. In sum, I expect future 1Q margins to exceed 1Q '23 more often than not.

最後，也是最有影響力的是，由於人員配置，我們仍然受到工作時間的限制。 2019 年第一季度，我們的飛機平均每架飛機每天飛行 9.7 個區塊小時。本季度，我們的利用率為 7.3。增加同一機隊的飛行將對結果產生重大積極影響。總之，我預計未來第一季度的利潤率通常會超過 23 年第一季度。

Looking at the rest of 2023. We continue to see strong leisure demand across our network, which is currently selling through mid-December. Of particular note, we expect the recent increase in ancillary revenue to continue to drive positive TRASM trends even as we lap the COVID recovery and increase scheduled service growth rates going into the back of the year.

展望 2023 年剩餘時間。我們繼續看到整個網絡的休閒需求強勁，目前銷售到 12 月中旬。特別值得注意的是，我們預計近期輔助收入的增長將繼續推動 TRASM 的積極趨勢，即使我們經歷了新冠疫情的複蘇並提高了今年下半年的預定服務增長率。

I also want to call out a fleet deal that we announced about a month ago. We purchased 5 737-900ERs that are currently leased to another operator until their return and induction in our fleet. We're not opening a new line of business. This is just a way for us to guarantee future capacity growth and get scale in a new variant. We expect these aircraft to contribute more to our results in our operation than while we're leasing them out. However, in the meantime, we expect a positive impact of about $1 million a month in operating income due to the 5 leases.

我還想提及我們大約一個月前宣布的一項機隊交易。我們購買了 5 架 737-900ER，目前已租給另一家運營商，直到它們返回並加入我們的機隊。我們不會開設新的業務線。這只是我們保證未來產能增長並在新變體中獲得規模的一種方式。我們預計這些飛機將比我們出租時對我們的運營業績做出更多貢獻。然而，與此同時，我們預計這 5 項租賃將每月對營業收入產生約 100 萬美元的積極影響。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Dave.

有了這個，我會把它交給戴夫。

Thanks, Jude. We're pleased to report very strong Q1 results, which I'll detail in a minute, that were the highest in Sun Country's current history. Total revenue, op income, adjusted pretax and adjusted net income were the highest they've been since we transitioned Sun Country to the airline that it is today, starting in 2017.

謝謝，裘德。我們很高興地報告非常強勁的第一季度業績，我將稍後詳細介紹，這是 Sun Country 當前歷史上最高的業績。總收入、運營收入、調整後稅前收入和調整後淨收入是自 2017 年開始將 Sun Country 轉型為現在的航空公司以來的最高水平。

Despite an increase in fuel prices of nearly 8%, adjusted pretax income for the quarter increased 235% versus Q1 of '22 to $52.5 million. The adjusted pretax margin for the quarter was 18%. I'll start now with the discussion of revenue and capacity.

儘管燃料價格上漲了近 8%，但該季度調整後的稅前收入比 22 年第一季度增長了 235%，達到 5,250 萬美元。該季度調整後的稅前利潤率為 18%。我現在首先討論收入和產能。

The revenue environment remains very strong. Q1 '23 total operating revenue of $294.1 million was 30% higher than the year ago quarter. Total block hours grew by nearly 4% year-over-year, and system ASMs were up 1%. Scheduled service business remains particularly strong as Scheduled Service TRASM grew 35% versus last year on a 3.5% decline in scheduled service ASMs.

收入環境仍然非常強勁。 23 年第一季度的總營業收入為 2.941 億美元，比去年同期增長 30%。總區塊時間同比增長近 4%，系統 ASM 增長 1%。定期服務業務仍然特別強勁，定期服務 TRASM 比去年增長了 35%，而定期服務 ASM 下降了 3.5%。

Ticket plus ancillary revenue grew 31% year-over-year as we saw a 21% increase in total fare to $221.47, and a nearly 9 percentage point growth in load factor to 88.1%. We see signs of revenue strength in the second quarter even as we start to lap some strong gains last year.

機票加輔助收入同比增長 31%，總票價上漲 21% 至 221.47 美元，載客率增長近 9 個百分點至 88.1%。儘管我們去年開始取得一些強勁增長，但我們看到第二季度收入強勁的跡象。

Charter revenue grew rapidly year-over-year with a 41% increase in the first quarter versus Q1 of '22. Our program charter business, which is flying down under long-term contracts, drove the growth as program block hours increased 52% versus last year. The bulk of this increase was due to increased flying under our Caesars and MLS contracts.

包機收入同比快速增長，第一季度比 22 年第一季度增長了 41%。我們的項目包機業務在長期合同下大幅下降，但隨著項目塊小時數比去年增加 52%，推動了增長。這一增長的大部分是由於我們的凱撒和 MLS 合同下的航班增加。

Ad-hoc charter flying, which was 14% smaller than Q1 of '22, continues to be undersized versus both the potential opportunity and its historic level at Sun Country. Demand in the scheduled service business led us to allocate our limited capacity there versus picking up ad-hoc trips. As our capacity continues to increase, we expect ad-hoc flying to grow substantially. As a whole, we expect charter block hour growth to continue throughout the year.

臨時包機飛行比 22 年第一季度減少了 14%，與 Sun Country 的潛在機會和歷史水平相比，規模仍然偏小。定期服務業務的需求導致我們將有限的運力分配給那裡，而不是接受臨時旅行。隨著我們的運力不斷增加，我們預計臨時飛行將大幅增長。總體而言，我們預計包機小時數將在全年持續增長。

Cargo revenue grew 11% in the first quarter on a 5% increase in cargo block hours. As a reminder, annual rate escalations for this contract go into effect in mid-December and every year of the agreement. The cargo business remains a steady cash-generative business for Sun Country that serves to smooth the peaks and valleys in our passenger service schedule.

由於貨運班次增加 5%，第一季度貨運收入增長 11%。請注意，該合同的年度費率升級將於 12 月中旬以及協議生效的每年生效。貨運業務仍然是 Sun Country 的一項穩定的創收業務，有助於緩解客運服務時間表的高峰和低谷。

Turning now to costs. Our first quarter adjusted CASM increased 14% versus last year. Aircraft utilization decreased by 15% versus Q1 of '22, which negatively impacted unit costs. Our average aircraft count in Q1 of '23 was 21% higher than last year, while total block hours grew by 4% over this period. We're undersized for the fleet we have in place, and future growth should come at very high marginal profitability.

現在轉向成本。我們第一季度調整後的 CASM 比去年增長了 14%。與 22 年第一季度相比，飛機利用率下降了 15%，這對單位成本產生了負面影響。我們 23 年第一季度的平均飛機數量比去年增加了 21%，而同期總停機時間增長了 4%。對於我們現有的機隊來說，我們的規模較小，未來的增長應該以非常高的邊際盈利能力為基礎。

An important thing to note is that lower utilization levels are not necessarily a drag on overall profitability. Our schedule is highly peaked and designed to maximize unit revenue. So having aircraft available during periods when demand is strongest is important even if the utilization at off-peak times is low.

需要注意的重要一點是，較低的利用率水平並不一定會拖累整體盈利能力。我們的日程安排非常緊湊，旨在最大限度地提高單位收入。因此，即使非高峰時段的利用率較低，在需求最強勁的時期提供可用的飛機也很重要。

For instance, aircraft utilization in March was 8.2 hours per day, while it averaged 13 hours per day on peak days in the month.

例如，3月份飛機利用率為每天8.2小時，而當月高峰日平均每天為13小時。

Adjusted CASM was also impacted by a 26% increase in pilot costs as a contractual increase in pay rates took place January 1 and staffing levels have increased to support our future growth.

調整後的 CASM 還受到試點成本增加 26% 的影響，因為 1 月 1 日合同工資上漲，並且人員配備水平增加以支持我們未來的增長。

Turning to the balance sheet. We finished the first quarter with $261.6 million in total liquidity, including $236.9 million in unrestricted cash and short-term investments. Our net debt to trailing 12-month adjusted EBITDA was 2.6x.

轉向資產負債表。第一季度結束時，我們的流動資金總額為 2.616 億美元，其中包括 2.369 億美元的非限制性現金和短期投資。我們的淨債務與過去 12 個月調整後 EBITDA 的比為 2.6 倍。

During the quarter, we also repurchased 750,000 shares of our stock at a price of $19.75 as part of an Apollo Global Management secondary offering. We still have $10.2 million in Board-approved share repurchase authority, and we'll opportunistically execute any future buybacks.

在本季度，作為 Apollo Global Management 二次發行的一部分，我們還以 19.75 美元的價格回購了 750,000 股股票。我們仍然擁有董事會批准的 1020 萬美元的股票回購權，並且我們將抓住機會執行未來的任何回購。

Lastly, I'll switch gears to talk about Q2 '23 guidance. We continue to see strong demand booked into the summer. Total Q2 '23 revenue is expected to be $255 million to $265 million, which would be 16% to 21% higher than Q2 of '22. This includes the revenue that we expect to receive from the aircraft that are on lease to Oman Air. We expect total block hour growth of 11% to 14%. We're expecting an adjusted operating margin of 11% to 16%, assuming a fuel price of $2.85 per gallon.

最後，我將換個話題來談談 23 年第二季度的指導。我們繼續看到夏季的預訂需求強勁。 23 年第二季度的總收入預計為 2.55 億至 2.65 億美元，比 22 年第二季度高 16% 至 21%。這包括我們預計從租賃給阿曼航空的飛機中獲得的收入。我們預計區塊總小時數將增長 11% 至 14%。假設燃油價格為每加侖 2.85 美元，我們預計調整後的營業利潤率為 11% 至 16%。

The fundamentals of our unique diversified business remains strong, and our model is highly resilient to changes in macroeconomic conditions. Our focus remains on profitable growth.

我們獨特的多元化業務的基本面依然強勁，我們的模式對宏觀經濟條件的變化具有很強的彈性。我們的重點仍然是盈利增長。

With that, we'll open it for questions.

這樣，我們將打開它來提問。

(Operator Instructions) And our first question comes from the line of Duane Pfennigwerth with Evercore ISI.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 Duane Pfennigwerth 線路。

Just on the cadence of capacity growth recovery for the balance of the year, and I guess that's mainly a scheduled service question, but maybe you could talk about it on a block hours basis across your segments and maybe specifically for the scheduled service business as well. Are you getting kind of the acceleration at the rate that you had previously hoped?

只是關於今年剩餘時間的運力增長恢復節奏，我想這主要是一個定期服務問題，但也許您可以在各個部門的時段基礎上討論這個問題，也許還專門針對定期服務業務。您是否以您之前希望的速度獲得加速？

Yes. We're seeing -- we are definitely seeing acceleration. So growth in the second quarter versus the second quarter of '22 will be higher than first quarter growth. Third quarter should be a substantial growth quarter. We're expecting strong summer and we're gearing up to grow pretty substantially.

是的。我們看到——我們肯定看到了加速。因此，與 22 年第二季度相比，第二季度的增長將高於第一季度的增長。第三季度應該是一個大幅增長的季度。我們期待著強勁的夏季，並準備大幅增長。

Fourth quarter growth will taper a little bit, not for any capacity constraint reasons, just because of demand patterns. But we're seeing the increase in capacity that we had planned for 2023. We're not growing as fast as we would like or really as fast as the opportunity presents itself, but growth will be substantial, particularly in Q3 and more so to come in Q2 as well.

第四季度的增長將略有放緩，這並不是因為任何產能限制的原因，而是因為需求模式。但我們看到了我們計劃在 2023 年實現的產能增長。我們的增長速度沒有我們希望的那麼快，也沒有機會出現的那麼快，但增長將是巨大的，特別是在第三季度，尤其是在第三季度。也將在第二季度出現。

Just a few more comments. A lot of airlines have philosophies about over-scheduling and then cutting down when they have a lot of daily frequencies or under-scheduling and then adding, in this case for us, where we see certainly certainty developing in our staffing.

再補充幾句評論。許多航空公司都有這樣的理念：當每日班次較多時，會過度排班，然後減少排班；或者當排班不足時，再增加，在我們的例子中，我們看到我們的人員配置肯定在發展。

So we -- if you look forward in our selling schedules through the end of the year, we loaded a smaller schedule than we hope to be able to operate. Additionally, at Sun Country, we have a lot of close-in charter sales. And charters continue to grow as well with about the same pace as what we're seeing in our sched service business.

因此，如果你展望今年年底的銷售時間表，我們的時間表比我們希望能夠運營的要小。此外，在太陽之國，我們有很多近距離包機銷售。包機業務繼續增長，其增長速度與我們在定期服務業務中看到的增長速度大致相同。

Okay. Great. And then just with respect to variability of your scheduling, just by the nature of the model, you kind of have to make a bet on seasonality, and you're shaping your schedule pretty aggressively. Any surprises in seasonal demand patterns? In other words, are the off-peaks as off-peaky as you're scheduling to? Or maybe what do you make of comments from some of the industry competitors that the off-peaks are kind of worse?

好的。偉大的。然後，就您的日程安排的可變性而言，就模型的性質而言，您必須在季節性上下注，並且您正在非常積極地調整您的日程安排。季節性需求模式有什麼意外嗎？換句話說，非高峰期是否像您安排的那樣非高峰期？或者，您對一些行業競爭對手關於非高峰時段情況更糟的評論有何看法？

Thanks, Duane. Yes, I mean, from my perspective, the surprise is that it's kind of like it was before COVID, where we had an incredibly strong spring break travel season that begins for us in mid-February and goes through Easter. And it was as good as anything we've seen.

謝謝，杜安。是的，我的意思是，從我的角度來看，令人驚訝的是，這有點像新冠疫情之前，我們經歷了一個令人難以置信的強勁春假旅行季節，從二月中旬開始，一直持續到復活節。它和我們見過的一樣好。

And then the last half of January and the first half of February were we -- as weak as they had been in the past also.

然後一月下半月和二月上半月我們也像過去一樣疲弱。

And what I'd say, because there's been a lot of discussion about leisure, and let me just define that term as I would think about it. It's not people going on a business trip to then tack on a couple of days of leisure. It's people that can work from anywhere, and therefore, can travel a little more frequently or go to different destinations.

我想說的是，因為關於休閒有很多討論，讓我按照我的想法來定義這個術語。人們並不是去出差然後再享受幾天的休閒時光。人們可以在任何地方工作，因此可以更頻繁地旅行或去不同的目的地。

So what I've seen in our network is a really substantial increase in secondary destinations. Leisure, as that kind of grew up in the space, was always about Orlando and Vegas. And now it's really diverse with particular expansions in smaller markets like the Northern Rockies and Tucson and Hilton Head, Savannah and Charleston and Asheville and Destin, our small international destinations like Grand Cayman and Aruba Belize. And so all those markets have really outperformed.

因此，我在我們的網絡中看到的是，次要目的地確實大幅增加。休閒，就像在這個空間中成長的那樣，總是與奧蘭多和維加斯有關。現在，它確實非常多樣化，在較小的市場（如北落基山脈、圖森和希爾頓黑德、薩凡納和查爾斯頓、阿什維爾和德斯坦）、我們的小型國際目的地（如大開曼島和阿魯巴伯利茲）進行了特別擴張。因此，所有這些市場的表現確實都跑贏大市。

And that's what I would attribute to -- because I think what you're asking is kind of the post-COVID leisure environment. But the peak still remain and that kind of, I think, tees up pretty well for our business model.

這就是我要歸因的原因——因為我認為你所問的是後新冠疫情后的休閒環境。但高峰仍然存在，我認為這種情況非常適合我們的商業模式。

And our next question comes from the line of Ravi Shanker with Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自拉維·尚克 (Ravi Shanker) 與摩根士丹利 (Morgan Stanley) 的對話。

Maybe just continuing on that line of conversation, but a bit looking far out, I mean you said that your booking curve extends out to almost December right now. So what does the forward curve look like? Any signs of cracks in demand, particularly kind of maybe post-Labor Day and that post-summer travel surge?

也許只是繼續這樣的對話，但有點看得太遠了，我的意思是你說你的預訂曲線現在幾乎延伸到 12 月。那麼遠期曲線是什麼樣的呢？是否有任何需求出現下滑的跡象，尤其是勞動節後和夏季後旅行激增的情況？

It's really, Ravi, it's Jude. It's just too early to comment on post-Labor Day. I mean we wouldn't sell that, historically, that's the time of the year anyway sells close in, and there's no difference really. Broadly across the network, we're selling well ahead of 2019 levels. So in other words, the percentage of our seats that are sold as we sit here today looking forward into the advances is higher than we were in the same time in 2019. And fares are substantially higher than they were in that period, and they remain higher than they were in the summer peak of last year, which was a pretty strong demand environment.

真的，拉維，是裘德。現在對勞動節後發表評論還為時過早。我的意思是，從歷史上看，我們不會出售它，無論如何，每年的這個時候都會出售它，而且實際上沒有什麼區別。在整個網絡中，我們的銷量遠遠高於 2019 年的水平。換句話說，當我們今天坐在這裡期待提前預訂時，我們售出的座位百分比高於 2019 年同期。而且票價遠高於那個時期，而且仍然如此。高於去年夏季高峰時的水平，這是一個相當強勁的需求環境。

We're growing again really rapidly into that peak period. But I'd say broadly, strength everywhere. I'd call out areas of strength. International continues to remain strong. That's been sort of echoed by other airlines on their earnings calls. We turn our international network to originate out of the south in the summertime, and that's doing really well.

我們再次快速增長，進入了那個高峰期。但我想說的是，力量無處不在。我會指出優勢領域。國際繼續保持強勁。其他航空公司在財報電話會議上也表達了類似的觀點。我們在夏季將國際網絡從南方出發，效果非常好。

The Pac Northwest is looking really, really good with the resurgence of like Alaskan travel. I think that plays into the leisure thesis. Last summer was really about big city destinations for Minneapolis for us, and that's coming back really nicely.

隨著阿拉斯加旅遊的複蘇，太平洋西北地區看起來真的非常好。我認為這符合休閒主題。去年夏天對我們來說明尼阿波利斯的大城市目的地真的很重要，現在回來真的很好。

We're trying a lot of new things on the network. And probably I'd like to see, I don't know, 20% of them fail, which is to say that we're trying things that might not work, and we have other better opportunities. So I think that won't be any different from years past where we cycle capacity into 2024 that we tried this year that didn't work out. But looks really, really good. Honestly, there's nothing -- I look to try to find weakness, and it's difficult right now.

我們正在網絡上嘗試很多新事物。也許我希望看到，我不知道，其中 20% 會失敗，也就是說，我們正在嘗試一些可能行不通的事情，而且我們還有其他更好的機會。因此，我認為這與往年沒有什麼不同，我們今年嘗試將產能循環到 2024 年，但沒有成功。但看起來真的非常非常好。老實說，沒有什麼——我試圖尋找弱點，但現在很難。

That's a great comment. I might steal that from you. Maybe it's also a good starting point for a follow-up question, which is a little more of a theoretical question. I mean just given your unique network and the reasons why in a passengers flyer airline kind of given the MSP connectivity versus the country and the world, just how macro-sensitive or demand-elastic or inelastic are your passengers, do you think?

這是一個很好的評論。我可能會從你那裡偷走這個。也許這也是後續問題的一個很好的起點，這個問題更像是一個理論問題。我的意思是，考慮到你們獨特的網絡，以及為什麼在客運航空公司中考慮到 MSP 與國家和世界的連通性，你們的乘客對宏觀敏感或需求彈性或無彈性有多大，你認為嗎？

Well, they're elastic for price, that's for sure. But that's no difference from other leisure customers. If what you're really asking is kind of how sensitive the Minnesota leisure customer is to the macro environment, then I would rather be in Minnesota anywhere if there was going to be a disruption because the economy is incredibly stable here. And that's been proved after many cycles of the past with really high affluency, high propensity for travel and very stable economy that has industry dependencies that are food and health care and the like.

嗯，它們的價格很有彈性，這是肯定的。但這與其他休閒顧客沒有什麼區別。如果您真正要問的是明尼蘇達州的休閒客戶對宏觀環境有多敏感，那麼我寧願在明尼蘇達州的任何地方（如果會出現中斷），因為這裡的經濟非常穩定。經過過去的許多周期，這一點得到了證明，富裕程度很高，旅行傾向很高，經濟非常穩定，經濟依賴食品和醫療保健等行業。

So -- and we kind of demonstrated that through COVID a little bit, where we outperformed the industry pretty dramatically even on our sched service business. But I don't think the key should be attributed to -- solely to the Minneapolis market. Really the secret sauce has been able to cut and add capacity without much change to your unit costs so that we can always find these opportunities of positive margin flying.

因此，我們通過新冠疫情稍微證明了這一點，即使在我們的定期服務業務上，我們的表現也相當顯著地優於行業。但我認為關鍵不應該僅僅歸因於明尼阿波利斯市場。事實上，秘密武器能夠在不改變單位成本的情況下削減和增加產能，這樣我們總能找到這些利潤豐厚的機會。

And our next question comes from the line of Catherine O'Brien with Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的凱瑟琳·奧布萊恩。

So I apologize in advance. This is like a multipart cost one for my first one. Can you just give us some more color on the cost outlook underlying your second quarter margin guidance? I think on my math, it implies some slowing in the growth year-over-year, but a step-up in growth on both the CASM ex and cost ex fuel per block hour basis.

所以我提前道歉。這就像我的第一個項目的多部分成本。您能否給我們更多關於第二季度利潤指引背後的成本前景的信息？我認為，根據我的數學計算，這意味著同比增長有所放緩，但 CASM 前和每區塊小時燃料成本的增長都在加快。

Was there something about the 2Q '19 comp that we should be remembering? Or was there some lumpiness and timing this year? I guess just -- I'm just trying to get a better sense of like how we should think about the second half. And then among your peers, your business model has changed the most since '19, right? And then we layer on kind of industry wage inflation and other inflation on top of that.

關於 19 年第二季度的比較，有什麼我們應該記住的嗎？或者今年有一些不穩定和時間安排嗎？我想只是——我只是想更好地了解我們應該如何看待下半場。然後在你的同行中，你的商業模式自19年以來變化最大，對嗎？然後我們在此基礎上考慮行業工資通脹和其他通脹。

So like trying to get a sense of kind of maybe anything we should be thinking about the comps or lumpiness this year. But really, ultimately, like what's the goal on either a CASM ex or a cost per block hour basis when you get back to that targeted utilization? I appreciate you letting me ramble on a bit here.

因此，就像試圖了解我們應該考慮今年的比較或波動性的任何事情一樣。但實際上，最終，當您回到目標利用率時，CASM ex 或每塊小時成本的目標是什麼？我很感謝你讓我在這裡閒聊一下。

Yes. So I would think of it this way. First of all, if you're looking back to 2019, obviously, a lot has happened. Like you said, we've added a whole new line of business. We signed a new pilot agreement. We've had other wage pressures that everyone else has had. I think the story on the CASM ex front is a pretty straightforward one for us.

是的。所以我會這樣想。首先，如果你回顧 2019 年，顯然發生了很多事情。就像你說的，我們增加了一條全新的業務線。我們簽署了新的試點協議。我們還面臨著其他人都面臨過的工資壓力。我認為 CASM 前線的故事對我們來說非常簡單。

I mentioned during our -- during the prepared remarks that our aircraft utilization has dropped fairly dramatically. The number of average aircraft in our fleet is up substantially. The number of pilot bodies is up substantially. Essentially, I would think of us right now as a little bit oversized for how much flying we're doing.

我在準備好的發言中提到，我們的飛機利用率大幅下降。我們機隊的平均飛機數量大幅增加。試點機構數量大幅增加。從本質上講，我認為我們現在的規模對於我們的飛行量​​來說有點過大。

So we've been steadily hiring. We've been steadily adding aircraft. There's an opportunity for us as we add really pilot production capabilities here, and we're making a lot of progress on that front, to sort of grow into the size that we are now sized for. The results should be high marginal profitability going forward, not a need to add a substantial number of aircraft nor a substantial number of pilots in the near term. That's really the underlying story on the CASM ex front for us.

所以我們一直在穩步招聘。我們一直在穩步增加飛機。我們有機會在這裡增加真正的試點生產能力，並且我們在這方面取得了很大進展，可以發展到我們現在的規模。結果應該是未來的高邊際利潤，而不是需要在短期內增加大量飛機或大量飛行員。這對我們來說確實是 CASM 正面的基本故事。

What we should see, what our plan is, is if you look at sort of on a quarter-by-quarter basis, that year-over-year pressure should ease a bit next quarter, and then begin to ease substantially in the back half of the year as the strong third quarter growth kicks in. I'm a little hesitant to give sort of a long-run CASM number at this point. But suffice it to say, we expect the number to be trending down as we go forward.

我們應該看到的是，我們的計劃是什麼，如果你按季度來看的話，同比壓力應該會在下個季度有所緩解，然後在下半年開始大幅緩解隨著第三季度強勁增長的開始，我對今年是否給出長期 CASM 數據有點猶豫。但我只想說，隨著我們的前進，我們預計這個數字將呈下降趨勢。

Got it. Super helpful. I guess, maybe just on the ad-hoc charter flying, when do you think you'll have enough slack in the system to pursue that more aggressively, not to say that having all that contractual long-term charter offer is a bad thing by any means. But just trying to get a sense of like when you think you'll have the slack.

知道了。超級有幫助。我想，也許只是在臨時包機飛行方面，您認為系統何時會有足夠的餘裕來更積極地追求這一點，並不是說擁有所有合同性長期包機報價是一件壞事任何手段。但只是想在你認為自己有閒暇的時候獲得一種感覺。

So first, that there is ad-hoc or not ad-hoc is mostly about the certainty of our staffing, less about absolute staffing. So when we're going into a peak month and there's some -- we're dependent on some assumptions around attrition or hiring or training or something like that, then we're going to schedule to the low end of where we think we might end up, and then we'll fill that gap with ad-hoc.

所以首先，是否臨時主要是關於我們人員配置的確定性，而不是絕對人員配置。因此，當我們進入高峰月時，我們依賴於一些關於人員流失、招聘或培訓等的假設，然後我們將安排到我們認為可能的低端位置最終，然後我們將臨時填補這一空白。

So you're still going to see ad-hoc flying grow through the year, but kind of what we really want to get to is where we're scheduling to the capability of the fleet and then filling off peak with additional ad-hoc opportunities as they become available, and we're ways off from that. But I would like to have Grant comment a little bit, who runs our revenue.

因此，您仍然會看到全年臨時飛行的增長，但我們真正想要實現的是我們根據機隊的能力進行調度，然後用額外的臨時機會來填補高峰期當它們變得可用時，我們距離這一目標還有很長的路要走。但我想讓格蘭特稍微評論一下，誰負責我們的收入。

Yes. Thanks, Jude. Jude is exactly right. The team does a really good job of sort of looking out into the future, placing our bets in terms of where we expect the most value and optimizing revenue and ad-hoc, as we've talked about, has been the thing that's sort of been spilled off lately.

是的。謝謝，裘德。裘德是完全正確的。該團隊在展望未來方面做得非常好，將我們的賭注放在我們期望最大價值的地方，並優化收入和臨時性，正如我們所討論的，一直是這樣的事情最近被洩露了。

I will tell you right now, we're more aggressive in the market in April, May and June in that space. So I think it's sort of meeting plan and expectations, and it will be a developing story. Our charter reputation is really, really good. So as we get back into that, customers are very willing to talk to us and ready to talk to us because we have a proven track record.

我現在就告訴你，我們在四月、五月和六月的市場上會更加積極。所以我認為這有點符合計劃和期望，這將是一個不斷發展的故事。我們的特許聲譽非常非常好。因此，當我們回到這個話題時，客戶非常願意與我們交談並準備與我們交談，因為我們擁有良好的記錄。

I might just try to squeeze one more in. Just coming back to something you mentioned, Dave, in answering the cost question. You noted that you're a little bit maybe overstaffed and over-fleeted for what you're growing today. Is unlocking the utilization, is that about getting captains upgraded? Or what really is like the barrier to kind of getting that utilization, and back up and running if it's not necessarily pilot bodies, to fill your phrase?

我可能會嘗試再擠進去一個。戴夫，回到你在回答成本問題時提到的事情。您指出，對於您今天所發展的業務來說，您可能有點人浮於事、人滿為患。解鎖使用率，是為了讓隊長升級嗎？或者，如果不一定是飛行員機構，那麼獲得這種利用、備份和運行的真正障礙是什麼？

Yes. It's continuing to make progress on our training pipeline. Like I said before, we got, we have a lot more pilots on board from a number perspective, and we're moving them quickly to the training pipeline.

是的。我們的培訓渠道正在繼續取得進展。就像我之前說的，從數量角度來看，我們有更多的飛行員，我們正在迅速將他們轉移到培訓渠道。

Just a quick statistics. So if I look at January through April of 2023 compared to January or April of 2022, we're producing about 33% more pilots than we did year-over-year. So we're making slow steady progress on pilot production here, and we expect that production to -- those increases to continue through the year.

只是一個快速統計。因此，如果我將 2023 年 1 月至 4 月與 2022 年 1 月或 4 月相比，我們生產的飛行員數量比去年同期增加了約 33%。因此，我們正在這裡的試生產方面取得緩慢而穩定的進展，我們預計產量的增長將持續到今年。

But that continues to be sort of a gating item for us, and we're making a lot of progress on it.

但這對我們來說仍然是一個門控項目，我們正在這方面取得很大進展。

I also do want to just reiterate, though, this issue that I've tried to mention on the call, it's not all about utilization here. It's making sure we have shell count available when the demand is there because peak time, day of week TRASMs, average fares are so high. We need to make sure we have all the aircraft we need to pick up that demand, which -- and if we have to suffer a little bit on overall utilization because the aircraft are parked during off-peak times, so be it because the overall profitability trade-off is there. And it -- I think it reflects itself in the Q1 profitability numbers that we put up.

不過，我也想重申一下，我在電話會議上試圖提及的這個問題，並不全與利用率有關。它確保我們在有需求時有可用的車票數量，因為高峰時段、每週 TRASM 的平均票價都非常高。我們需要確保我們擁有滿足這一需求所需的所有飛機，如果因為飛機在非高峰時段停飛而導致整體利用率受到一點影響，那就這樣吧，因為整體利用率盈利能力的權衡是存在的。我認為這反映在我們提出的第一季度盈利數據中。

And our next question comes from the line of Helane Baker (sic) [Helane Becker] with Cowen (sic) [TD Cowen].

我們的下一個問題來自 Helane Baker（原文如此）[Helane Becker] 和 Cowen（原文如此）[TD Cowen]。

It's Helane Becker and it's TD Cowen. Quick question, why is your air traffic liability down fourth quarter to first? I feel like it should have gone up. What -- obviously, I missed something here.

我是 Helane Becker，我是 TD Cowen。簡單問一下，為什麼您的空中交通責任從第四季度下降到第一季度？我感覺應該會漲。什麼——顯然，我在這裡錯過了一些東西。

Well, remember, we're burning -- we're doing a whole bunch of flying in the first -- a bunch of tickets are purchased in the fourth quarter. We're doing a whole bunch of flying in the first quarter that the people purchased tickets for in the fourth quarter.

好吧，記住，我們正在燃燒——我們在第一季度進行了大量的飛行——在第四季度購買了很多機票。我們在第一季度進行了大量的飛行，人們在第四季度購買了機票。

It's all about days out.

這都是關於外出的日子。

Yes.

是的。

So our winter capacity is sold earlier than our summer capacity. And that's historically been consistent.

因此，我們的冬季產能比夏季產能銷售得更早。這在歷史上是一致的。

Right. So that's -- and that's all the close-in bookings that you tend to get, right? People tend to be closer on your airline than on the peer group.

正確的。這就是——這就是您經常獲得的所有近距離預訂，對吧？人們往往對你的航空公司比對同齡人更親近。

No. No, no, it's really comparing us to ourselves. So our summer schedule books closer in because it's shorter haul, just the kind of markets that we serve. But if you think about the kind of vacation that Minnesotans take in March, it's planned months and months in advance, fairly high-fare environment. People -- these are just very important trips to people, so they plan it really in advance.

不不不，這實際上是在與我們自己進行比較。因此，我們的夏季航班預訂時間會更近，因為它的航程較短，正是我們所服務的市場類型。但如果你想想明尼蘇達人三月份的假期，就會發現提前幾個月就計劃好了，票價相當高。人們——這些對人們來說都是非常重要的旅行，所以他們會提前計劃。

So when you look at our end of December ATL, it's reflective of those first quarter bookings as compared to if you look at the end of March, our ATL are reflective of bookings going into the summer, which will be sold later.

因此，當您查看我們 12 月底的 ATL 時，它反映的是第一季度的預訂量，而如果您查看 3 月底的 ATL，我們的 ATL 反映的是進入夏季的預訂量，夏季將在晚些時候出售。

Okay. I appreciate that. And then my other question has to do with the comment about the price hike every December on the cargo business. Does that fluctuate year-to-year? Or is it a fixed amount?

好的。我很感激。我的另一個問題與每年 12 月貨運業務價格上漲的評論有關。每年都會有波動嗎？還是固定金額？

Yes. So we don't want to get into -- yes, we probably don't want to get into too many details, but suffice it to say there's various line items in our agreement that -- in that change at different numbers. But it's contractually laid out.

是的。因此，我們不想涉及 - 是的，我們可能不想涉及太多細節，但只要說我們的協議中有各種不同的項目就足夠了 - 在不同數字的變化中。但這是合同規定的。

And our next question comes from the line of Mike Linenberg with Deutsche Bank.

我們的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Mike Linenberg。

I want to just go back to -- Jude, you had mentioned about certainty of staffing and how that had been maybe a potential gating issue. What are the pain points there? And where are we -- and not just pilots. I'm looking at mechanics, flight attendants, ground people. Any issues that you're running into attrition rates, et cetera?

我想回到——裘德，你提到了人員配置的確定性以及這可能是一個潛在的門控問題。其中有哪些痛點？我們在哪裡——而不僅僅是飛行員。我正在尋找機械師、空乘人員、地勤人員。您遇到過流失率等問題嗎？

Well, the technician staff is tight, but it's okay. And generally, we're able to respond to all the rest of our staffing to how things are going on the pilot side. So the dependency remains with our pilots. And as Dave outlined, the challenge is really about the training pipeline now.

嗯，技術人員比較緊張，不過也還好。一般來說，我們能夠向我們所有其他員工回應試點方面的進展情況。因此，我們的飛行員仍然具有依賴性。正如戴夫所概述的，現在的挑戰實際上是關於培訓渠道。

So we don't have a problem with attrition or with hiring. It's really about trying to get people through the training pipeline, through the simulator, through the upgrade process, get the instructors into their jobs and build the whole infrastructure out. It's just taking some time.

因此，我們不存在人員流失或招聘問題。這實際上是為了讓人們通過培訓管道、通過模擬器、通過升級過程，讓講師進入他們的工作崗位並構建整個基礎設施。只是需要一些時間。

One of the things, Mike, just quickly to note on that is, if you recall a year or so ago, maybe 1.5 years ago, we saw a lot of difficulty in airport staffing. That eased tremendously. I mean that constraint is gone. There's no constraint on the flight attendants side. We're staffed where we want to be on the mechanic side. So as Jude point out, it's a little tight. It's hard to get some of those guys, but that's not an issue. Those groups are not gating items.

邁克，請快速指出其中一件事，如果您還記得大約一年前，也許 1.5 年前，我們在機場人員配備方面遇到了很多困難。這極大地緩解了。我的意思是，這種限制消失了。空乘人員方面沒有任何限制。我們在機械方面配備了我們想要的人員。正如裘德指出的那樣，它有點緊。很難得到其中一些人，但這不是問題。這些團體不會對項目進行限制。

Do you -- with the pilots in the training, do you have a sense that the light at the end of the tunnel is 2023? Or does this continue beyond that? I mean, is this going to be a multiyear that you're just going to always be playing catch up?

與正在接受訓練的飛行員一起，您是否感覺到隧道盡頭的曙光就是 2023 年？或者這種情況還會繼續下去嗎？我的意思是，這將是一個多年的時間，你總是要追趕嗎？

Well, with these margins, we'll add aircraft so that we're always constrained.

好吧，有了這些餘量，我們將添加飛機，這樣我們就總是受到限制。

Yes. I mean we have substantial growth plans in the next few years in our long-range plan. We're going to be constantly adding training capacity and adding production capacity. So is kind of not a caught-up point for us. We're thinking right now how are we gearing up for Q1 of '24. We're going to need staff for that and then into the summer of '24. So it's kind of a never-ending thing.

是的。我的意思是，我們的長期計劃中有未來幾年的實質性增長計劃。我們將不斷增加培訓能力和生產能力。所以這對我們來說並不是一個被追趕的點。我們現在正在考慮如何為 24 年第一季度做好準備。我們將為此需要員工，然後到 24 年夏天。所以這是一件永無止境的事情。

I mean, I think about it like long range, we want to be in kind of the mid-teen range of consistent growth, maybe a little bit more some years, a little bit less other years, but we want to be able to accomplish that.

我的意思是，我認為它是長期的，我們希望處於青少年範圍內的持續增長，也許有些年多一點，其他幾年少一點，但我們希望能夠實現那。

Mid-teens, Jude, is that ASMs or that's block hours?

十幾歲了，裘德，這是 ASM 還是封鎖時間？

Block hours for us is what counts just because that's the unit of measure across our segments. So -- and we're going to start hitting that towards the back of this year. So we're kind of to the production levels that we would like to be, and it's going to get -- as the airline grows, we're going to need to produce more pilots every month to kind of keep that rate going. So I think pilots are going to be the story for a while.

對我們來說，區塊時間很重要，因為它是我們各個細分市場的衡量單位。所以——我們將在今年下半年開始解決這個問題。因此，我們已經達到了我們想要的生產水平，隨著航空公司的發展，我們將需要每月生產更多的飛行員，以保持這一速度。所以我認為飛行員將成為一段時間內的故事。

Okay. Just jumping to the new airplanes, the 737-900ERs, what's the seat count versus the 800? And what's the difference in the departure cost, probably pretty similar?

好的。就跳到新飛機 737-900ER 上，與 800 相比，座位數是多少？出發費用有什麼區別，可能非常相似？

Yes. So we have 186 seats on our 800s and our expectation, it's still being studied a little bit, is that we go to 200 on the 900. The 900s have almost the same departure cost. There's a little bit more fuel, a little bit higher landing fees, same crew complement. So it's nearly identical departure costs, and so those incremental 14 seats are just very, very profitable, as you'd imagine. It's a great airplane for us.

是的。因此，我們的 800 型飛機上有 186 個座位，我們的預期（仍在研究中）是 900 型飛機上的座位數達到 200 個。900 型飛機的出發成本幾乎相同。燃料多一點，著陸費高一點，機組人員配備相同。因此，出發成本幾乎相同，因此，正如您所想像的那樣，增加的 14 個座位的利潤非常非常高。這對我們來說是一架很棒的飛機。

And I was going to say that plane has the legs to make Hawaii without penalty off the West Coast?

我想說的是，這架飛機有足夠的航程飛越夏威夷而不受西海岸的處罰嗎？

Yes. It's a little bit longer range actually than the 800, the 900ERs. It's about 150 nautical longer. So it can do everything we do with the 800 and then some. There's no real markets though that we would open up because of that small incremental range. But yes, we can do just about anything.

是的。實際上，它的射程比 800、900ER 稍長一些。大約長了150海裡。所以它可以完成我們 800 所做的一切，甚至更多。但由於增量範圍較小，我們不會開放任何真正的市場。但是，是的，我們幾乎可以做任何事情。

It's got a little bit of field performance. So there is some challenging airfields that we fly in and out of with the 800 that the 900 can't go into. But it's a good -- it effectively does everything we want to do with it with the 800 on the 900.

它有一點現場表演。因此，有一些具有挑戰性的機場，我們用 800 進出，而 900 無法進入。但這是一件好事——它可以有效地完成我們想要在 900 上用 800 做的所有事情。

Great. And if I could just sneak in one last one. On -- it is interesting about your scheduling versus your peers, where areas of schedule out there and we constantly see sort of the reduction of revisions with a downward bias. And you're right, it's interesting, your schedules. You seem to be the only carrier where you put a schedule out there. And then as you get closer in, you're adding frequency at the last minute.

偉大的。如果我能偷偷溜進最後一件就好了。關於——與你的同行相比，你的日程安排很有趣，在日程安排的領域，我們不斷地看到修訂的減少，並且存在向下的偏差。你是對的，你的日程安排很有趣。您似乎是唯一一家提供時間表的承運商。然後，當你越來越接近時，你會在最後一刻增加頻率。

What -- and I'm just thinking, over the last couple of quarters, what has been that upward bias? Is it about 0.5 point of ASM growth, a point of ASM growth in the scheduled business? I just haven't actually done the math, but I haven't noticed it. I'm just curious, it does seem like there's that upward bias. And it helps, obviously, on the cost side as well as the revenue side.

什麼——我只是在想，在過去的幾個季度裡，這種向上的偏見是什麼？是ASM增長0.5個點左右，預定業務ASM增長一個點嗎？我只是沒有真正做過數學計算，但我沒有註意到這一點。我只是好奇，似乎確實存在向上的偏見。顯然，它在成本方面和收入方面都有幫助。

I mean, 2% to 3%, I would guess. And just keep in mind, there's a lot going on there. So one thing is we don't oversell currently any flights, and we have low frequency into markets. So if we put a flight for sale, we need to commit to that flight because there's not a lot of reaccomm opportunities for our passengers.

我的意思是，我猜是2%到3%。請記住，那裡發生了很多事情。因此，一件事是我們目前沒有超售任何航班，而且我們進入市場的頻率很低。因此，如果我們出售某個航班，我們需要承諾該航班，因為我們的乘客沒有太多重新入住的機會。

And the airlines that are adding a lot tend to cut down multiple daily frequencies to a little bit less frequency. So there's reaccomm embedded in their network for those passengers. We just don't have that luxury. So we bias towards late adds as opposed to late cuts.

而增加大量航班的航空公司往往會將每日的多個班次減少到稍微少一些。因此，他們的網絡中為這些乘客嵌入了重新通訊功能。我們只是沒有那麼奢侈。因此，我們偏向於後期添加，而不是後期削減。

And Mike, I would just -- this is Grant. I would just add that, and you've heard us talk about this quite a bit at conferences and the like, the scheduled integration topic. A shout-out to the team here. We have really capable schedulers. And so as we put out the charter schedule and the charter schedule adjusts, the team goes in and strategically adds supply.

邁克，我只是——這是格蘭特。我想補充一點，您已經聽到我們在會議等類似的會議上多次討論了預定的集成主題。在這裡向團隊大聲喊叫。我們有非常有能力的調度員。因此，當我們推出包機時間表並調整包機時間表時，團隊就會介入並戰略性地增加供應。

A great example, a big partner of ours here is the University of Minnesota. They went to the Frozen Four hockey tournament. We chartered them down there. And then we found ways to be strategic with that schedule or we opened up capacity close in for fans and at really good prices relative to the market, still really good yields, build up all the airplanes. And it was just a win-win for everyone.

一個很好的例子，我們的一個重要合作夥伴是明尼蘇達大學。他們去參加了《冰雪奇緣四人組》曲棍球錦標賽。我們包租了他們在那裡。然後我們找到了對這個時間表進行戰略規劃的方法，或者我們以相對於市場而言非常好的價格，仍然非常好的產量，為粉絲開放了接近的運力，建造了所有的飛機。這對每個人來說都是雙贏。

Yes. So if you're looking at our schedule, there's a lot of really weird frequencies in there that you might be like why are they flying Newark twice a month in March. And that's because we're flying the Red Bulls. So we make a decision when we sell that charter. Is it better to ferry in? Or is it better to just sell it sched? And we may only have a month to try to fill the airplane, but it's still better. And so that calculus is happening all the time and that leads to, as Grant mentioned, a lot of other late adds in the sched service business.

是的。因此，如果您查看我們的航班時刻表，就會發現其中有很多非常奇怪的頻率，您可能會想為什麼他們在三月份每月兩次飛往紐瓦克。那是因為我們駕駛的是紅牛飛機。因此，我們在出售該包機時做出決定。是不是坐渡輪進去比較好？還是直接賣掉比較好？我們可能只有一個月的時間來嘗試給飛機加滿油，但仍然更好。因此，這種計算一直在發生，正如格蘭特提到的，這導致了調度服務業務中的許多其他後期添加。

Yes. I was just going to say, notwithstanding the few days in Minne, you just -- you guys don't cancel flights. I mean, as far as I can go back, you don't cancel. It's impressive. I don't think there's anybody who has a record that equals yours at present?

是的。我只是想說，儘管在明尼蘇達州待了幾天，你們只是——你們不會取消航班。我的意思是，只要我能回去，你就不會取消。令人印象深刻。我想目前沒有人能與你的記錄相媲美吧？

Well, thank you. I mean we got a great team here. I think it's the #1 operating metric that we strive for. And this winter was a tough one for us but -- and some people had to call a lot later, yes. But we do everything we can not to bring a flight down.

嗯，謝謝。我的意思是我們這裡有一支很棒的團隊。我認為這是我們努力追求的第一運營指標。今年冬天對我們來說是一個艱難的冬天，但是——有些人不得不晚點打電話，是的。但我們會盡一切努力不讓航班墜落。

And our next question comes from the line of Christopher Stathoulopoulos with Susquehanna.

我們的下一個問題來自 Christopher Stathoulopoulos 和 Susquehanna 的對話。

So 2 questions. On Amazon, with Amazon, looking to improve the, I guess, network delivery efficiencies. If you could just comment how we should think about the puts and takes for Sun Country there? And then a little bit more nuance here, just remind us whether there are minimum block hours with this service. And then two, how much in advance do you get the flight schedule? So meaning, do you know what you're flying for Amazon in the second half of this year or peak season at this point?

所以有2個問題。在亞馬遜上，與亞馬遜一起，我想，希望提高網絡交付效率。您能否評論一下我們應該如何考慮太陽國家那裡的看跌期權？這裡還有一點細微差別，只是提醒我們這項服務是否有最低封鎖時間。第二個問題，你提前多久拿到航班時刻表？所以意思是，你知道今年下半年或此時旺季你要飛往亞馬遜的航班嗎？

Yes. I mean -- so Amazon has obviously been striving to improve overnight delivery for as long as we've been involved. We have seen kind of no changes or minimal changes in their -- in the scheduling. We haven't seen any significant reductions in block hours or -- if anything, it's been a little bit of pressure in the other way. So it's been sort of steady eddie from a scheduling perspective from Amazon.

是的。我的意思是，只要我們參與其中，亞馬遜顯然就一直在努力改善隔夜送達服務。我們發現他們的日程安排沒有變化或變化很小。我們還沒有看到區塊時間有任何顯著減少，或者——如果有的話，那就是在另一方面帶來了一點壓力。因此，從亞馬遜的調度角度來看，這有點穩定。

So without going too much into the details of our agreement, not really minimum block hours, but the contract is constructed such that there's a fixed component and a variable component. So you could kind of say that the fixed component is a minimum block hour number, but it's just a fixed number that we get. So it's structured that way.

因此，無需過多討論我們協議的細節，實際上並不是最低區塊時間，但合同的構建方式包括固定部分和可變部分。所以你可以說固定部分是最小區塊小時數，但這只是我們得到的一個固定數字。所以它的結構就是這樣的。

From a schedule perspective, we're working on schedules right now through the back of the year. Here's how I think about Amazon. It is a fixed input into the capacity plan. It's almost precisely reliable. We're doing about 38 dailies today, expect to do about 38 dailies at the end of the year, this time next year, et cetera.

從時間表的角度來看，我們現在正在製定今年下半年的時間表。這是我對亞馬遜的看法。它是容量計劃的固定輸入。這幾乎是完全可靠的。我們今天製作了大約 38 份日報，預計在年底、明年這個時候製作大約 38 份日報，等等。

What changes, though, is the markets we fly to. And that's what Sun Country is really, really good at. We're always opening and closing airports for them, and that's why they hired us. We're really, really flexible.

不過，改變的是我們飛往的市場。這就是太陽國真正非常擅長的。我們總是為他們打開和關閉機場，這就是他們僱用我們的原因。我們真的非常非常靈活。

Okay. Second question, if you could comment on what you're seeing with respect to used aircraft prices today and perhaps your thoughts on the market going forward.

好的。第二個問題，您是否可以評論一下您今天所看到的二手飛機價格以及您對未來市場的看法。

Well, I mean, fortunately, we don't need to buy a lot right now because prices are a little tighter. There's -- I'm trying to think of something I can add because it's already a very common discussion about the delays in the MAX and the effect that it's having on the NG market.

嗯，我的意思是，幸運的是，我們現在不需要買太多，因為價格有點緊張。我正在嘗試想一些我可以補充的內容，因為關於 MAX 的延遲及其對 NG 市場的影響已經是一個非常普遍的討論。

We have the capacity with this 900 deal kind of laid out for the next couple of years. We remain in the spot market. And when planes pop up that fit our spec and there are good prices, we'll still be buying from time to time, but we're talking really small quantities. And that -- and then this is still growing 15%, whatever, 20%, whatever we get to going into next year.

我們有能力在未來幾年內完成這 900 筆交易。我們仍留在現貨市場。當符合我們規格的飛機出現並且價格優惠時，我們仍然會不時購買，但我們談論的數量非常小。然後，無論我們明年達到什麼水平，這個數字仍然會增長 15%，無論如何，20%。

Here's one more comment on the NG prices. So there's -- when we think about a used NG, we kind of attribute value to the maintenance value that we transfer from the prior operator than the piece parts that we're going to sell when we retire the airplane. And then finally, the difference is an operator premium. And that operator premium has been around 0, so no premium. And now it's like [$1 million] or so. And so it just doesn't really move the needle. The mid-life NG is still an incredible investment for us. And we'll be looking for 900ERs and 800s that are in the 8- to 12-year range, I think probably for the next 5, 10 years.

這是對 NG 價格的另一條評論。因此，當我們考慮使用過的NG時，我們會將價值歸因於我們從前任運營商轉移的維護價值，而不是我們在飛機退役時要出售的零部件。最後，差異在於運營商溢價。運營商的保費一直在 0 左右，所以沒有保費。現在大約是[100萬美元]左右。所以它並沒有真正起到推動作用。中年NG對我們來說仍然是一項令人難以置信的投資。我們將尋找 8 至 12 年範圍內的 900ER 和 800，我認為可能是未來 5 年、10 年。

Yes. I mean one of the reasons that we're a little oversized from an aircraft perspective is because we're opportunistically buying and we're going to grow into it. So when the deals are there with the economics we want, we buy the aircraft. Ownership costs for these planes is pretty low. So we're going to continue to buy aircraft when we see great deals, and we'll grow into it.

是的。我的意思是，從飛機的角度來看，我們規模有點過大的原因之一是因為我們正在機會主義地購買，並且我們將成長為它。因此，當交易符合我們想要的經濟效益時，我們就會購買飛機。這些飛機的擁有成本相當低。因此，當我們看到優惠時，我們將繼續購買飛機，並且我們會不斷成長。

Financing cost spread base rates have moved obviously higher than where they were last year. But we have the balance sheet to continue to execute the fleet plan irrespective of financing.

融資成本利差基準利率明顯高於去年。但無論融資如何，我們的資產負債表都可以繼續執行機隊計劃。

Okay. And if I could get in one more, the recent deal, the 737-900 deal with Oman Air. So is that -- that looks at least until you take, I guess, possession of these? Is it late 2024 through 2025? And in the meanwhile, should we think about that as sort of like a dry lease? And is dry leasing perhaps something that you could look to move into opportunistically or kind of more on a sort of a go-forward basis?

好的。如果我能再簽一份，最近的一筆交易，即與阿曼航空的 737-900 交易。那麼，至少在你擁有這些之前，我猜是這樣的嗎？是2024年底到2025年嗎？與此同時，我們是否應該將其視為乾租？幹租賃是否是您可以尋求機會或更多地在未來的基礎上進入的東西？

I mean think of us -- for the Oman aircraft, we're a lessor. We leased the aircraft to Oman. We stepped into somebody else's shoes. That's the extent of the relationship. So we're collecting lease income. We own the aircraft. It's standard lessor-lessee relationship for the duration of these leases.

我的意思是想想我們——對於阿曼飛機來說，我們是出租人。我們將飛機租賃給阿曼。我們站在了別人的立場上。這就是關係的程度。所以我們正在收取租賃收入。我們擁有這架飛機。這是這些租賃期間的標准出租人與承租人關係。

I don't see us really be getting very active in the dry leasing world. I mean, back again sort of to what I was saying on utilization earlier, there's plenty of opportunity to fly all of these aircraft at peak times. So we can't really have them dry lease to somebody else's we want them when we need them even if they're going to sit around a little bit more than would be optimal.

我認為我們在幹租賃領域並沒有真正變得非常活躍。我的意思是，回到我之前所說的利用率問題，有很多機會在高峰時段駕駛所有這些飛機。因此，我們不能真正將它們幹租給其他人，我們需要它們時我們需要它們，即使它們的閒置時間比最佳狀態多一點。

Acquiring an airplane with a lease attached, I think that makes sense. Taking an airplane that we own and leasing it out and remarketing leased airplanes, that's not really a core competency that we want to focus on.

購買一架附帶租賃的飛機，我認為這是有道理的。將我們擁有的飛機租賃出去，然後再銷售租賃的飛機，這並不是我們真正想要關注的核心能力。

Our next question comes from the line of Duane Pfennigwerth with Evercore ISI.

我們的下一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 Duane Pfennigwerth。

That was actually the question I was going to ask was on fleet, but maybe you could just put a finer point on when those aircraft come into revenue service for you. In other words, how long will you be collecting that lease revenue? And how many aircraft do you need to go out and acquire to support 2024 growth?

這實際上是我要問的關於機隊的問題，但也許你可以更好地說明這些飛機何時為你提供收入服務。換句話說，您將在多長時間內收取租賃收入？您需要採購多少架飛機才能支持 2024 年的增長？

Yes. So the aircraft, think of it this way, the aircraft come off of lease beginning in, I think it's November of '24 and extend through like November of '25. So then we need to take the aircraft, reconfigure them and so forth. So I would be thinking the first Oman aircraft come into service here probably second quarter of 2025 kind of a thing and then sort of going out from there.

是的。所以，飛機，這樣想吧，飛機從 24 年 11 月開始終止租賃，一直延續到 25 年 11 月。那麼我們需要拿走飛機，重新配置它們等等。因此，我認為第一架阿曼飛機可能會在 2025 年第二季度在這裡投入使用，然後從那裡起飛。

So we have a -- we've done a couple of other aircraft deals in recent weeks that will deliver mid- this year -- that will go into service mid- this year and early 2024. We probably, from an operational perspective right now, don't need additional aircraft, maybe one, but we don't need additional aircraft going into the first quarter of 2024.

因此，我們最近幾週完成了幾項其他飛機交易，這些飛機將於今年年中交付，並將於今年年中和 2024 年初投入使用。從運營角度來看，我們現在可能會這樣做，不需要額外的飛機，也許是一架，但我們在 2024 年第一季度不需要額外的飛機。

So I think we're properly sized from a fleet perspective. As I mentioned earlier, if a great deal comes along, we'll probably do it. But we don't really need to do it right now.

所以我認為從機隊的角度來看我們的規模是合適的。正如我之前提到的，如果有大量交易出現，我們可能會這樣做。但我們現在確實不需要這樣做。

I'm showing no further questions. So with that, I'll hand the call back over to CEO, Jude Bricker, for any closing remarks.

我沒有再提出任何問題。因此，我將把電話轉回給首席執行官裘德·布里克 (Jude Bricker)，讓其發表結束語。

Thanks for joining us this morning, everybody. We'll talk to you again in 90 days. Have a great day.

感謝大家今天早上加入我們。 90 天后我們會再次與您交談。祝你有美好的一天。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating, and you may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。