Skillz Inc (SKLZ) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. All. I would like to welcome you all to the Skillz Inc 2024 3rd Quarter result school,

午安.全部。歡迎大家來到 Skillz Inc 2024 年第三季成績學校，

My name is Nadia and I'll be moderating your call today.

我叫納迪亞，今天我將主持您的通話。

If you would like to ask a question, please press star, fill it by one on your telephone keypad.

如果您想提出問題，請按星號，然後在電話鍵盤上填寫一個。

I would now like to pass the conference call over to your host, Richard Land from JCIR to begin. So, Richard, please go ahead.

現在我想將電話會議轉交給主持人、來自 JCIR 的理查德·蘭德 (Richard Land)。那麼，理查德，請繼續。

Good afternoon and welcome to the Skillz 2024 3rd quarter earnings conference call. On the call today are Andrew Paradise Skillz, co-founder and CEO and Gaetano Franceschi CFO. This afternoon Skillz issued it's 2024 3rd quarter results release, which is available on the company's investor relations website.

下午好，歡迎參加 Skillz 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天參加電話會議的是聯合創始人兼執行長 Andrew Paradise Skillz 和 Gaetano Franceschi 財務長。今天下午，Skillz 發布了 2024 年第三季業績報告，該報告可在該公司的投資者關係網站上查看。

Before I turn the call over to Andrew. Please note that some of management's comments today will include forward-looking statements within the meeting of federal securities laws, forward-looking statements which are usually identified by the use of words such as will expect should or other similar phrases are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results, to differ materially from what we expect.

在我把電話轉給安德魯之前。請注意，今天管理層的一些評論將包括聯邦證券法會議中的前瞻性陳述，這些前瞻性陳述通常通過使用諸如“將期望應該”或其他類似短語等詞語來識別，並且會面臨許多風險和可能導致實際結果與我們預期有重大差異的不確定性。

Therefore, you should exercise caution in interpreting and relying on them. We refer you to the company's SEC filings for a more detailed discussion of the risks that could impact future operating results and financial condition.

因此，您在解釋和依賴它們時應該小心謹慎。我們建議您參閱該公司向 SEC 提交的文件，以更詳細地討論可能影響未來營運績效和財務狀況的風險。

During the call management, we'll discuss non-GAAP measures which it believes can be useful in evaluating the company's operating performance. These measures should not be considered in isolation or as a substitute for our financial results prepared in accordance with GAAP, a reconciliation of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measure is available in the company's third quarter, 2024 earnings release.

在通話管理期間，我們將討論非公認會計準則衡量標準，認為這些衡量標準有助於評估公司的營運績效。這些措施不應被孤立地考慮，也不應作為我們根據 GAAP 編制的財務業績的替代品，這些措施與最直接可比的 GAAP 措施的調節可在公司 2024 年第三季度的收益發布中找到。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Andrew for some opening remarks followed by Gaetano for a discussion of our financial performance. Before we open the call for questions, Andrew.

接下來，我將把電話轉給安德魯，讓他做一些開場白，然後由加埃塔諾討論我們的財務表現。在我們開始提問之前，安德魯。

Thank you, Richard and good afternoon before turning to an update on the progress made against our four pillars. I want to share the ongoing strides we're making in our fair play initiative and key litigation matters. We continue to be very active with sounding the alarm to have all gaming companies in this space provide consumers with certainty that they're being matched with real players of similar skill to ensure fair competition.

謝謝理查德，下午好，然後再介紹我們在四大支柱方面取得的進展的最新情況。我想分享我們在公平競爭倡議和關鍵訴訟事務方面正在取得的進展。我們繼續非常積極地發出警報，讓該領域的所有遊戲公司向消費者保證他們正在與具有相似技能的真實玩家進行匹配，以確保公平競爭。

Our efforts, both public and behind the scenes in this regard are necessary to make sure this industry can survive and thrive as consumers have the real hard earned money on the line.

我們在這方面的公開和幕後努力是必要的，以確保這個行業能夠生存和繁榮，因為消費者擁有真正辛苦賺來的錢。

While our proprietary platform delivers on this promise of fairness to players for more than a year. We've highlighted our strong conviction that companies such as Avia games, Papaya Gaming and Voodoo Games are using box to deceive players into believing they're competing against real human opponents.

我們的專有平台在一年多的時間裡兌現了對玩家公平的承諾。我們強調，我們堅信 Avia games、Papaya Gaming 和 Voodoo Games 等公司正在使用盒子來欺騙玩家，讓他們相信自己正在與真人對手競爭。

In fact, we believe these players on these platforms are facing robots or game play with predetermined outcomes.

事實上，我們相信這些平台上的這些玩家面臨著機器人或預定結果的遊戲。

This manipulation alters match results to their advantage, defrauding American players with billions of hard earned dollars.

這種操縱改變了比賽結果，對他們有利，欺騙了美國球員數十億美元來之不易。

As part of our fight for fairness. We filed lawsuits against Papaya Games and Voodoo Games in the southern district of New York.

作為我們爭取公平的一部分。我們在紐約南區對 Papaya Games 和 Voodoo Games 提起訴訟。

We filed these suits to protect our interests as well as the interests of our stakeholders while these lawsuits are ongoing and will take some time to come to trial. I want to highlight the irony of Papa's recent court filings. These companies want to exploit American consumers and American companies like ours but try to hide behind foreign law by refusing to turn over relevant discovery materials regarding the use of bots as evidenced by the judge's rulings in our case against Papaya. They will have to answer the US laws to protect the US consumers that defrauded.

我們提起這些訴訟是為了保護我們的利益以及利害關係人的利益，同時這些訴訟仍在進行中，需要一些時間才能接受審判。我想強調爸爸最近提交的法庭文件的諷刺意味。這些公司想要剝削美國消費者和像我們這樣的美國公司，但試圖透過拒絕移交有關使用機器人的相關發現材料來隱藏在外國法律的背後，正如法官在我們對木瓜案中的裁決所證明的那樣。他們必須遵守美國法律，以保護遭受詐欺的美國消費者。

We stand ready to continue to pursue additional actions to safeguard fairness within this industry that we pioneered while keeping the interest of our shareholders in mind.

我們隨時準備好繼續採取更多行動，以維護我們開創的這個行業的公平性，同時牢記股東的利益。

In addition to our lawsuits, consumers have filed class action lawsuits against both Avia Games and Papaya Gaming.

除了我們的訴訟之外，消費者還對 Avia Games 和 Papaya Gaming 提起集體訴訟。

We're continuing to do everything we can to bring this matter to the attention of the legal and regulatory authorities. Both the Today Show and Bloomberg cover these class action lawsuits in August, but we're far from having reached an end to bots in our industry.

我們將繼續盡一切努力提請法律和監管機構注意此事。《今日秀》和彭博社在 8 月都報導了這些集體訴訟，但我們行業中的機器人還遠遠沒有結束。

Bloomberg did a great job in bringing attention to the devastating monetary impact. The use of bots has on ordinary Americans. The incredible amount of money being defrauded from individuals is staggering and we need to continue to do our part to bring this fraud to light including on these public calls. We hope that the regulatory authorities are listening and take quick and necessary actions to stop the billions of dollars of fraud being perpetrated against American consumers.

布隆伯格在引起人們對毀滅性貨幣影響的關注方面做得很好。機器人的使用已經影響了一般美國人。個人被詐騙的金額令人震驚，我們需要繼續盡自己的一份力量，揭露這種詐欺行為，包括透過這些公開呼籲。我們希望監管機構能夠傾聽並迅速採取必要行動，制止針對美國消費者的數十億美元的詐欺行為。

As a US based company, it's our belief we should do this for the safety of all players in this industry which will ultimately set a level playing field and benefit Skillz and our shareholders.

作為一家美國公司，我們相信，為了該行業所有參與者的安全，我們應該這樣做，這最終將創造一個公平的競爭環境，並使 Skillz 和我們的股東受益。

We're ready, willing and capable of competing against any other skill-based gaming provider that wants to compete fairly and without the deceptive use of bots.

我們已經準備好、願意並且有能力與任何其他希望公平競爭且不使用欺騙性機器人的基於技能的遊戲提供者競爭。

I strongly believe that since we're the leading company that does not engage in consumer bot fraud, the elimination of this practice should dramatically change LTV to CAC to our benefit.

我堅信，由於我們是不參與消費者機器人詐欺的領先公司，消除這種做法應該會極大地改變 LTV 到 CAC，從而使我們受益。

Turning now to the business performance in Q3, we continue to have a strong balance sheet and financial position. In the quarter we continue to work on our four pillars for returning Skillz to consistent top line growth and possibly just that paying users for the quarter continue to stabilize with paying now of 121,000 in Q3 2024 compared to 122,000 in Q2, 2024 even as the summer months are typically our slowest period of the year.

現在轉向第三季的業務表現，我們繼續擁有強勁的資產負債表和財務狀況。在本季度，我們將繼續努力實現四大支柱，使Skillz 恢復穩定的營收成長，並且可能只是本季度的付費用戶繼續穩定，2024 年第三季度的付費用戶數為121,000 人，而2024 年第第二季的付費用戶數為122,000 人，即使在夏季也是如此幾個月通常是我們一年中最慢的時期。

Our execution in Q3 continues to build our cautious optimism that we're on the right track to get to our goal of generating positive adjusted EBITA.

我們在第三季的執行繼續建立了我們謹慎的樂觀態度，即我們正走在正確的軌道上，以實現產生正向調整 EBITA 的目標。

We're consistently applying our expense management initiatives with Q324 OpEx excluding cost of sales and one-time benefits in line with Q2 '24 and our adjusted EBITDA loss improved again on a year over year basis.

我們始終如一地將我們的費用管理計劃應用於 Q324 營運支出，不包括銷售成本和一次性收益，與 24 年第二季度一致，調整後的 EBITDA 損失同比再次有所改善。

Turning now to an update on the first of our four key pillars enhancing our platform to improve customer and developer engagement and retention.

現在轉向我們四個關鍵支柱中第一個的更新，增強我們的平台，以提高客戶和開發人員的參與度和保留率。

The third quarter reflected some ongoing progress we discussed on recent calls, the focus we've placed on our new product pipeline and have several products in development.

第三季反映了我們在最近的電話會議中討論的一些持續進展，我們將重點放在新產品管道上，並且有幾種產品正在開發中。

Our second pillar up leveling the organization in Q3. We continue to scale our Las Vegas and Bangalore based teams to optimize our product development, marketing and data and analytics resources.

我們的第二個支柱是在第三季提升組織水準。我們繼續擴大拉斯維加斯和班加羅爾的團隊規模，以優化我們的產品開發、行銷以及數據和分析資源。

We also continue to reduce our reliance and expensive US based third party contractors and a remote workforce with the work absorbed by our Las Vegas and Bangalore based teams moving on to our third pillar. Our go to market UA expanding in Q3 was consistent with Q2 and Q1 levels and remains at our lowest level since 2018 while being fairly stable. At approaching six months system wide payback, we need to now scale to facilitate growth. As we continue to focus on optimizing UA expand.

我們也繼續減少對美國第三方承包商和遠距勞動力的依賴和昂貴的勞動力，我們的拉斯維加斯和班加羅爾團隊承擔的工作將轉移到我們的第三個支柱。我們在第三季的上市 UA 擴張與第二季和第一季的水平一致，保持在 2018 年以來的最低水平，同時相當穩定。在接近六個月的全系統投資回收期時，我們現在需要擴大規模以促進成長。隨著我們繼續專注於優化UA擴展。

As part of these efforts, we plan to increase our spend through RKI which provides us with better pricing, pricing transparency and keeps the margin with the Skillz family.

作為這些努力的一部分，我們計劃透過 RKI 增加支出，這為我們提供了更好的定價、定價透明度並保持與 Skillz 系列的利潤。

Finally, I'll talk a little bit about our fourth pillar demonstrating a clear path to profitability.

最後，我將談談我們的第四個支柱，展示了一條清晰的獲利之路。

We're making the steady strides needed to achieve our goal of generating positive adjusted EBIDA and by continuing to execute on our turnaround strategies, we remain optimistic. We'll reach this inflection point in 2025.

我們正在穩步邁進，以實現產生積極的調整後 EBIDA 的目標，並透過繼續執行我們的扭虧為盈策略，我們保持樂觀。我們將在 2025 年達到這個轉捩點。

Our Adjusted EBIDA loss continue to improve year over year with a loss of 13.9 million in Q3 2024 compared to 18.5 million in Q3 2023 excluding legal expenses related lawsuits against bought companies are adjusted even that would have improved to a loss of 12.3 million. Cash flow from operating activities was negative 11 million in Q3 2024. In line with the just the dot of the quarter, we ended Q3 with cash cash equivalents and restricted cash of 311 million or 182 million net of outstanding debt.

我們的調整後EBIDA 損失繼續逐年改善，2024 年第三季的損失為1,390 萬美元，而2023 年第三季的損失為1,850 萬美元，不包括針對被收購公司的法律費用相關訴訟進行調整，即使這會改善至1230 萬美元的損失。2024年第三季經營活動現金流為負1,100萬。截至第三季末，我們的現金等價物和限制性現金為 3.11 億美元，扣除未償債務後為 1.82 億美元。

We continue to gradually improve our monthly operating cash burn which combines our strong balance sheet provides us with the runway to return our business to the sustainable and profitable growth we need for our shareholders.

我們繼續逐步改善每月的營運現金消耗，這與我們強大的資產負債表相結合，為我們提供了讓我們的業務恢復股東所需的可持續和盈利增長的跑道。

I'll conclude my comments by reiterating our view that our current valuation gives no weight to the value of the operating platform and the progress we've made towards achieving our goals. We're confident that we're executing the right strategies to position the company to return to profitable growth.

最後，我將重申我們的觀點，即我們目前的估值並未考慮營運平台的價值以及我們在實現目標方面取得的進展。我們相信，我們正在執行正確的策略，使公司恢復獲利成長。

As we execute on our turnaround initiatives, we continue to believe our unique platform can generate significant returns for our shareholders.

當我們執行扭虧為盈計畫時，我們仍然相信我們獨特的平台可以為股東帶來可觀的回報。

With that. I'll turn it over to Gaetano.

就這樣。我會把它交給加埃塔諾。

Thank you, Andrew and good afternoon everyone. I'll start by noting that in our 2023 10-K and our 2024 1st and second quarter, 10 QS each of which were filed in late August. There were several non-material changes in our financial presentations to highlight the two updates compared to a prior financial presentation are that we are now breaking out our financials by segment and geography.

謝謝你，安德魯，大家下午好。首先我要指出的是，在我們的 2023 年 10-K 和 2024 年第一季和第二季中，各有 10 個 QS 均於 8 月下旬提交。我們的財務簡報中有一些非重大變化，以強調與先前的財務簡報相比的兩項更新，即我們現在按部門和地理位置細分財務資料。

Turning to the third quarter. Financial results revenue was 25 million flat sequentially and down 33% year over year. Our paid user conversion rate which is paying mile divided by mile was 14% in Q3 and from 15% in Q2 with the mile flat. While mile improved quarter over quarter, as Andrew indicated, we are confident that we can maintain our current system wide payback period as we turn to investing in growth, turning to OpEx research and development expense was 5 million down 40% year over year. And excluding the impact of stock-based compensation was 13% of Q3 revenue sales and marketing expense was 18 million down 40% year over year. And excluding the impact of stock-based compensation was 51% of Q3 revenue Q3 UA marketing was 4 million while Q3 engagement marketing was 10 million.

轉向第三季。財務業績收入季減 2,500 萬美元，年減 33%。我們的付費用戶轉換率（以支付里程除以里程計算）在第三季為 14%，而第二季為 15%（里程持平）。正如安德魯所指出的，雖然英里數逐季度有所改善，但我們有信心在轉向成長投資時能夠維持當前的全系統投資回收期，轉向營運支出，研發費用為 500 萬美元，同比下降 40%。剔除股權激勵的影響，第三季銷售收入佔營收的 13%，行銷費用為 1,800 萬美元，較去年同期下降 40%。排除股票薪酬的影響，佔第三季營收的 51%。

General and administrative expense was 18 million down 26% year over year. And excluding the impact of stock-based compensation was 25% of Q3 revenue. Net loss of 21 million compares to a net loss of 34 million in Q3 2023 adjusted even the loss in the quarter was 13.9 million. A 25% improvement year over year adjusted even the margin was negative 57% in Q3 2024 compared to negative 51% in Q3 2023. We ended the third quarter with 311 million of cash comprised of 301 million in cash and cash equivalents and 10 million in restricted cash. At the end of Q3, we had 130 million of total principal due on outstanding debt. With our improving cash burn. We have the flexibility to deploy capital to enhance shareholder value.

管理費用為1800萬元，年減26%。排除股票薪酬的影響，該比例為第三季營收的 25%。淨虧損為 2,100 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季調整後的淨虧損為 3,400 萬美元，即使該季度的虧損為 1,390 萬美元。即使 2024 年第三季的利潤率為負 57%，而 2023 年第三季的利潤率為負 51%，調整後仍同比提高 25%。截至第三季末，我們擁有 3.11 億美元現金，其中 3.01 億美元為現金及現金等價物，1,000 萬美元為限制性現金。截至第三季末，我們的未償債務到期本金總額為 1.3 億美元。隨著我們現金消耗的改善。我們可以靈活地配置資本以提高股東價值。

At this time, we'll turn the call back to the operator for the Q&A session.

此時，我們會將電話轉回接線生進行問答環節。

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad.

謝謝。如果您想提問，請按下電話鍵盤上的星號，然後再按一個。

If you would like to remove your question, please press star fully by two.

如果您想刪除您的問題，請完全按兩顆星號。

When preparing to ask your question, please ensure your phone is muted locally.

準備提問時，請確保您的手機已本地靜音。

Our first question goes to Ed Alter of Jeffreys. Ed. Please go ahead.

我們的第一個問題是向 Jeffreys 的 Ed Alter 提出的。埃德。請繼續。

Hi. Thanks for the question. I just wanted to maybe dig in on the, paying ma uses. That's now been, you know, nicely stable for, for three quarters in a row. Can you, can you speak to the churn within that? And is that a core group of co a core or is they're kind of a little more churn within that? Just would love to hear like the core, hear more on the core players you guys have on the platform.

你好。謝謝你的提問。我只是想深入了解付費用途。你知道，現在已經連續三個季度保持穩定。你能，你能談談其中的混亂嗎？這是一個核心團隊還是一個核心團隊，或者他們內部有更多的變動？只是很想聽到像核心一樣的聲音，聽到更多關於平台上核心玩家的資訊。

Yes.

是的。

Oh, sorry, go ahead. Catch.

哦，抱歉，請繼續。抓住。

On. Thanks.

在。謝謝。

No, no, go, go ahead, Andrew. Sorry. We're not in the same room. Apologies.

不，不，去吧，繼續吧，安德魯。對不起。我們不在同一個房間。抱歉。

(laughter) Sorry, we do that first. So, the audio is a little clearer. We we've really slowed down acquisition. So, when you look at the amount of marketing spend, we've been pretty flat and stable now for multiple quarters. So, most of the work of what we're doing is on both our retention of paying users and then around reactivation of paying users. So, really just owned marketing channels as well as on system channels and I got time. Do you have anything you want to add.

（笑聲）抱歉，我們先這樣做。所以，聲音稍微清晰一些。我們確實放慢了收購速度。因此，當您查看行銷支出金額時，會發現我們已經連續多個季度保持平穩和穩定。因此，我們所做的大部分工作都是圍繞著付費用戶的留存以及付費用戶的重新激活。所以，實際上我只擁有行銷管道和系統管道，而且我還有時間。有什麼想要補充的嗎？

About cohorts?

關於群組？

No, I think that's correct. Basically, what Andrew said is the way I would answer.

不，我認為這是正確的。基本上，安德魯所說的就是我的回答方式。

Yeah, great. And then, you know, as you talked about at the end there, you know, deploying capital can, can you kind of walk through kind of the, you know, the top three capital deployment priorities for you guys?

是的，太棒了。然後，你知道，正如你最後談到的，你知道，部署資本可以，你能介紹一下你們所知道的三大資本部署優先事項嗎？

Yeah, I can take that and, and, and Andrew if you want to add, I think there's a, there's a couple of areas that we definitely want to focus on. First is we want to continue to in, in, in invest and improve our platform. So, on, in people and product and development, I'd say the second area that we want to continue to invest in is creating tools and better processes for our developers. And I'd say the third area of investment will be in scaling up our UA and our marketing efforts. So, product development, new content and then you know, UA and of course, people.

是的，我可以接受，安德魯，如果你想補充的話，我認為有幾個領域是我們絕對想要關注的。首先，我們希望繼續投資和改進我們的平台。因此，在人員、產品和開發方面，我想說我們要繼續投資的第二個領域是為我們的開發人員創建工具和更好的流程。我想說，第三個投資領域將是擴大我們的用戶獲取和行銷工作。所以，產品開發、新內容，然後你知道，UA，當然還有人。

Great, thanks. And then A as you scale that UA, you know, what are the success factors that you guys are going to measure yourself against? Obviously, you know, the six-month payback, it's great to hear that you're approaching that. But as you layer on scale, what are, what are the targets, you guys are looking to hit on that spend.

太好了，謝謝。然後當你擴展用戶獲取時，你知道，你們衡量自己的成功因素是什麼？顯然，你知道，六個月的回報，很高興聽到你正在接近這個目標。但當你按規模分層時，目標是什麼，你們希望實現這筆支出。

Yeah. No, that's a, that's a good question. The so, we've, we've been running some of the budget this year at six months and actually hitting that level of, of payback, I think is pretty hard given many in the industry are targeting 12 to 18 months. But I, I think the strategy here has been to really cut back our marketing until we can be sure that we're seeing the attractive return profiles, especially with all the issues we had call it end of '21 and in 2022 you know, in turning around the business, we said that one of the first things we want to do obviously is we, if there's a lot of breakage in the product retention is down in the product itself does not make sense to have advertising anywhere near the scale. So, it's kind of, you know, way, way, way down to what I'd say is kind of a, a life support level of user acquisition so, that we can continue to optimize and fix retention. As we improve the D 30 D 180 retention. And then, and our early indicators of, of, you know, cohorts falling in line with those retention curves. We'll look to scale back up user acquisition, but I think it's it's probably the right way to think about it is cautious scale in categories that we're already in. You know, it's well known that Blackout Bingo and Solitary Cube are the top titles on the platform. We have a number of other titles that are smaller that potentially benefit from investment in marketing as well as new content. The new content is actually now functional again and we are we are seeing more and more content launches. So, the next piece of that of course is identifying which of these games could potentially scale into being a hit. And then and then it's approaching developers who are on the platform about doing publishing deals with the company so that we can actually capture that you know, larger portion of rev share and put a user acquisition budget against the game where the developer may not have the funds to do so.

是的。不，這是一個好問題。所以，我們今年的一些預算是在六個月內運行的，並且實際上達到了回報水平，我認為這是相當困難的，因為業內許多人的目標是 12 到 18 個月。但我，我認為這裡的策略是真正削減我們的行銷，直到我們可以確定我們看到了有吸引力的回報概況，特別是考慮到我們稱之為 21 年底和 2022 年的所有問題，你知道，在扭轉業務方面，我們說，我們要做的第一件事顯然是，如果產品保留率出現很大的下降，那麼產品本身就沒有任何意義，在任何接近規模的地方做廣告都是沒有意義的。所以，你知道，這就是我所說的用戶獲取的生命支持水平，這樣我們就可以繼續優化和修復保留。隨著我們提高 D 30 D 180 保留率。然後，我們的早期指標，你知道，隊列與這些保留曲線一致。我們將尋求擴大用戶獲取規模，但我認為在我們已經涉足的類別中謹慎擴大規模可能是正確的思考方式。您知道，眾所周知，《Blackout Bingo》和《Solitary Cube》是該平台上的頂級遊戲。我們還有許多其他規模較小的遊戲，它們可能會從行銷和新內容的投資中受益。新內容實際上現在再次發揮作用，我們看到越來越多的內容發布。因此，下一步當然是確定哪些遊戲有可能成為熱門遊戲。然後，它會不斷地與平台上的開發者接洽，與該公司達成發行協議，以便我們能夠真正捕獲你知道的較大部分的收益份額，並針對開發者可能沒有的遊戲制定用戶獲取預算。來這樣做。

Yeah, great. Thanks. And then I guess on that last point, have you, have you seen any any notable call outs to make on, on that new game and new publisher pipeline?

是的，太棒了。謝謝。然後我想關於最後一點，你有沒有看到任何關於新遊戲和新發行商管道的值得注意的呼籲？

We have, but I don't think we're we're yet yet kind of diving into that. So, we, we definitely are seeing signs of green shoots but nothing to nothing to point out specifically for this moment.

我們已經這樣做了，但我認為我們還沒有深入研究這一點。所以，我們肯定看到了萌芽的跡象，但目前沒有什麼值得特別指出的。

All right, great. Thanks, appreciate it.

好吧，太好了。謝謝，感激不盡。

Thank you. We have no further questions. This now concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.

謝謝。我們沒有其他問題了。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的加入。現在您可以斷開線路。