Sirius XM Holdings Inc (SIRI) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings. Welcome to the SiriusXM fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 operating and financial results conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

問候。歡迎參加 SiriusXM 2024 年第四季和全年營運和財務業績電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to introduce Hooper Stevens, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations and Finance. Thank you, Hooper. You may begin.

現在我很高興介紹投資者關係和財務高級副總裁胡珀史蒂文斯 (Hooper Stevens)。謝謝你，胡珀。你可以開始了。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to SiriusXM's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings conference call. Today, we will have prepared remarks from Jennifer Witz, our Chief Executive Officer; and Tom Barry, our Chief Financial Officer. Scott Greenstein, our President and Chief Content Officer, will join Jennifer and Tom to take your questions during the Q&A portion of this call.

謝謝大家，早安。歡迎參加 SiriusXM 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。今天，我們將準備執行長 Jennifer Witz 的致詞；以及我們的財務長湯姆·巴里（Tom Barry）。我們的總裁兼首席內容官 Scott Greenstein 將與珍妮佛和湯姆一起在本次電話會議的問答環節回答您的問題。

I would like to remind everyone that certain statements made during the call might be forward-looking statements as the term is defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These and all forward-looking statements are based upon management's current beliefs and expectations and necessarily depend upon assumptions, data or methods that may be incorrect or imprecise. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. For more information about those risks and uncertainties, please view SiriusXM's SEC filings in today's earnings release. We advise listeners to not rely unduly on forward-looking statements and disclaim any intent or obligation to update them.

我想提醒大家，電話會議中發表的某些陳述可能是前瞻性陳述，因為這個術語在 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》中有定義。這些和所有前瞻性聲明均基於管理層當前的信念和期望，並且必然取決於可能不正確或不精確的假設、數據或方法。此類前瞻性陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果大不相同。有關這些風險和不確定性的更多信息，請查看今天的收益報告中 SiriusXM 的 SEC 文件。我們建議聽眾不要過度依賴前瞻性陳述，並且不承擔更新這些陳述的任何意圖或義務。

As we begin, I'd like to remind our listeners that today's call will include discussions about both actual results and adjusted results. All discussions of adjusted operating results exclude the effects of stock-based compensation and the Liberty Media transaction. Additionally, we have posted a supplementary presentation to our investor relations website for your convenience.

首先，我想提醒我們的聽眾，今天的電話會議將包括實際結果和調整後結果的討論。所有調整後經營績效的討論均不包括股票薪酬及 Liberty Media 交易的影響。此外，為了您的方便，我們在投資者關係網站上發布了一份補充介紹。

With that, I'll hand the call over to Jennifer.

說完這些，我就把電話交給珍妮佛。

Thank you, Hooper, and good morning, everyone.

謝謝你，胡珀，大家早安。

SiriusXM had a strong fourth quarter to cap off 2024, entering 2025 with a focused strategy, clear goals and defined path to addressing both the challenges and opportunities ahead. For 2024, SiriusXM delivered on our public guidance with $8.7 billion in total revenue, $2.73 billion in adjusted EBITDA and just over $1 billion in free cash flow. Additionally, we achieved significant subscriber improvements year over year, driven by a strong back half with better-than-expected metrics across both acquisition and churn.

SiriusXM 在 2024 年第四季表現強勁，並將以專注的策略、明確的目標和明確的路徑邁入 2025 年，以應對未來的挑戰和機會。2024 年，SiriusXM 實現了我們的公開預期，總收入達到 87 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 達到 27.3 億美元，自由現金流略高於 10 億美元。此外，由於下半年用戶獲取和流失指標均優於預期，我們的用戶數量較去年同期實現了顯著成長。

Our offering remains unmatched in the market and our dedicated subscriber base continues to choose our service to sound track their day. As we announced in December, we have sharpened our strategic focus on SiriusXM's strengths and differentiators with an emphasis on robust margins, free cash flow generation and capital returns. While we are still in early stages, we have already made progress across each of our key areas as we look to continue to enhance our subscription offering, leverage the strength of our ad business and accelerate efficiencies and optimization across the organization and our cost structure.

我們的產品在市場上仍然無與倫比，我們的忠實用戶群繼續選擇我們的服務來陪伴他們度過每一天。正如我們在 12 月宣布的那樣，我們已將戰略重點放在 SiriusXM 的優勢和差異化因素上，重點關注強勁的利潤率、自由現金流產生和資本回報。雖然我們仍處於早期階段，但我們已經在各個關鍵領域取得了進展，我們希望繼續增強我們的訂閱服務，利用我們的廣告業務優勢，並加快整個組織和成本結構的效率和優化。

Let's begin with our subscription business, where we are doubling down on our core automotive segment. We added approximately 150,000 self-pay subscribers in the fourth quarter and ended the year down less than $300,000, a significant improvement over 2023. Our three-year OEM subscription program is gaining momentum with tens of thousands of equipped vehicles sold in 2024 with a three-year plan. And the launch of our service in Tesla and Rivian models in December, leveraging our newest 360L technology and a streaming-only implementation, allowed us to quickly scale to over 2 million vehicles already on the road.

讓我們從訂閱業務開始吧，我們正在加倍投入我們的核心汽車領域。我們在第四季度增加了約 15 萬名自付費用戶，年底虧損不到 30 萬美元，與 2023 年相比有顯著改善。我們的三年期 OEM 訂閱計劃發展勢頭強勁，按照三年計劃，到 2024 年將售出數萬輛配備該技術的汽車。我們於 12 月在特斯拉和 Rivian 車型上推出了這項服務，利用我們最新的 360L 技術和純串流媒體實現，使我們能夠迅速擴展到目前上路行駛的 200 多萬輛汽車。

In 2025, we'll be making adjustments that will both allow for a more seamless customer experience and improve the overall health of our business in the long term. These include improvements in online customer engagement such as click-to-cancel and a reduction in marketing to higher-cost, higher-churn audiences as well as shortened introductory offers immediately following automotive trials and new lower-priced package options. While we expect some of these changes will have onetime impacts on our subscriber results particularly in the first half of this year, we believe these actions will allow us to improve customer satisfaction, maintain our strong cash generation and support the continued long-term health of the business.

2025 年，我們將做出調整，以提供更無縫的客戶體驗並長期改善我們業務的整體健康。這些措施包括提高線上客戶參與度，例如點擊取消，減少針對高成本、高流失受眾的行銷，以及在汽車試用後立即縮短介紹性優惠時間並推出新的低價套餐選項。雖然我們預計其中一些變化將對我們的用戶業績產生一次性影響，特別是在今年上半年，但我們相信這些舉措將使我們能夠提高客戶滿意度，保持強勁的現金流，並支持公司長期健康發展。

Apart from these shifts, we would expect our subscriber results in 2025 to be slightly better than what we saw in 2024. Streaming remains critical to our future as we look to expand reach and engagement for our core subscribers who increasingly consume SiriusXM content both in and outside the car. Between 360L, which will account for roughly half of our new car trials this year; and the recent Tesla and Rivian launches, which are IP implementations, streaming plays an increasing role for our business in the vehicle.

除了這些變化之外，我們預計 2025 年的用戶業績將略好於 2024 年。串流媒體對於我們的未來仍然至關重要，因為我們希望擴大核心訂閱者的覆蓋範圍和參與度，這些訂閱者越來越多地在汽車內外消費 SiriusXM 內容。其中 360L 將占我們今年新車試驗的大約一半；最近特斯拉和 Rivian 推出了 IP 實現，串流媒體在我們的汽車業務中發揮著越來越重要的作用。

As an extension of this, we are developing features and technology for our digital products, such as the in-app channel guide to function as a companion to our in-car offering and better serve than 90% of customers who use our embedded service. Following the launch of our new app, we saw streaming listening steadily increased throughout the year, reaching a high in December.

作為此項服務的延伸，我們正在為我們的數位產品開發功能和技術，例如應用程式內頻道指南，它可以作為我們車載產品的配套產品，為90% 使用我們嵌入式服務的客戶提供更好的服務。在我們的新應用程式推出後，我們發現串流媒體收聽量全年穩步增長，並在 12 月達到最高點。

We're seeing strong engagement with the added features at streaming both in select 360L vehicles as well as in app allows our subscribers to enjoy. This includes our extra channels, where we continue to see lift in weekly in-app listenership, up 36% in Q4 year over year; as well as audio on-demand including podcasts, which achieved significant double-digit growth across both platforms. And with an average of just under two listeners per subscription, the app not only offers a way to extend listening outside of the car, it allows multiple members of a household to enjoy our service at the same time, delivering even more value to our core subscriber base.

我們看到，精選 360L 車輛和應用程式內的串流媒體新增功能受到廣泛歡迎，我們的訂閱者可以盡情享受。其中包括我們的額外頻道，我們繼續看到每週應用程式內收聽率的提升，第四季年增 36%；以及包括播客在內的音訊點播，在兩個平台上都實現了顯著的兩位數增長。平均每個訂閱用戶不到 2 人，該應用程式不僅提供了一種在車外收聽的方式，還允許多個家庭成員同時享受我們的服務，為我們的核心用戶提供更多價值用戶群。

But of course, premium exclusive curated content remains the heart of our business, and we are focusing our investments in this area on talent and collaborations that resonate with passionate audio consumers. Sports, for example, remains a major differentiator for us, and we were pleased to continue to welcome new expert commentators across golf, tennis, football and more in the past few months in support of our live play-by-play rights. We also recently added more live event coverage by signing an agreement to broadcast matches from TGL, the new primetime golf league led by Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy.

但當然，優質的獨家精選內容仍然是我們業務的核心，我們在這一領域的投資重點是人才和合作，以引起熱情的音訊消費者的共鳴。例如，體育運動仍然是我們的主要差異化因素，我們很高興在過去的幾個月中繼續歡迎高爾夫、網球、足球等領域的新專家評論員，以支持我們的現場直播轉播權。我們最近還簽署了一項協議，將播放由泰格伍茲和羅裡麥克羅伊領導的新的黃金時段高爾夫聯賽 TGL 的比賽，從而增加了更多現場賽事報道。

Within music, we're continuing to deliver the unique curated experiences our subscribers love. This quarter, we added to our subscriber favorite seasonal holiday lineup with an all-new channel led by Jimmy Fallon, and we launched How's Life, a new interview series from John Mayer. John's channel, curated not by genre but by mood, time of day and the artist's own ever-evolving interest in musical taste, is a great example of the way our service allows fans to connect with the musicians they love in an entirely new way.

在音樂領域，我們將繼續為訂閱者提供他們喜愛的獨特精選體驗。本季度，我們在訂閱者最喜愛的假日節目陣容中增加了由吉米法倫 (Jimmy Fallon) 領銜的全新頻道，並推出了約翰梅爾 (John Mayer) 的全新訪談系列《How's Life》。約翰的頻道不是根據音樂類型來策劃的，而是根據心情、時間和藝術家自身不斷變化的音樂品味來策劃的，這是我們服務讓粉絲以全新的方式與他們喜愛的音樂家建立聯繫的一個很好的例子。

At the intersection of music, talk and podcasting, earlier this week, we announced two new channels as part of our agreement with Alex Cooper and the Unwell network. Featuring live shows and curated music, these channels are a great example of how we can leverage the massive reach of a podcast such as Call Her Daddy to drive interest to SiriusXM with programming exclusive to our service.

在音樂、對話和播客的交匯處，本週早些時候，我們宣布了兩個新頻道，作為與 Alex Cooper 和 Unwell 網路達成協議的一部分。這些頻道以現場表演和精選音樂為特色，很好地展示了我們如何利用播客（例如 Call Her Daddy）的廣泛影響力，透過我們服務的獨家節目吸引人們對 SiriusXM 的興趣。

Podcasting is also key to how we leverage the strength of our advertising business. In addition to the launch of our agreement with Unwell and continued momentum around SmartLess, in Q4, we extended and expanded our relationship with Mel Robbins and kicked off with Rotten Mango creator, Stephanie Soo. And earlier this month, we announced a new podcast from sports commentator, Katie Nolan, as well as an advertising and distribution agreement with fantasy footballers allowing us to increase our share of the ad dollars flowing into sports media today.

播客也是我們運用廣告業務優勢的關鍵。除了與 Unwell 達成協議並繼續推動 SmartLess 的發展之外，在第四季度，我們還延長並擴大了與 Mel Robbins 的合作關係，並與 Rotten Mango 創始人 Stephanie Soo 展開了合作。本月初，我們宣布推出體育評論員凱蒂諾蘭 (Katie Nolan) 的新播客，並與夢幻足球運動員達成廣告和發行協議，這將使我們能夠增加當今流入體育媒體的廣告收入份額。

The expansion of our podcast network in 2024, combined with our strong streaming footprint, solidifies our position as the number one digital ad-supported audio player in North America and enables us to tap into the demand we're seeing from the market in 2025, with more and more advertisers both entering the space and increasing their investment. Throughout 2024, we onboarded a variety of new advertisers into podcasting and now have more than 80% of our top clients investing in podcasting, leading to 24% year-over-year growth in podcasting overall in Q4 2024, meaningfully contributing to the total 2024 ad sales revenue of $1.8 billion.

2024 年，播客網路的擴張加上我們強大的串流影響力，鞏固了我們作為北美第一大數位廣告支援音訊播放器的地位，並使我們能夠在 2025 年滿足市場需求，越來越多的廣告商進入該領域並增加投資。在整個2024 年，我們引入了各種新廣告商進入播客領域，目前我們80% 以上的頂級客戶都在投資播客，這使得2024 年第四季度播客整體同比增長24%，為2024 年播客總收入做出了重大貢獻。

Our open ecosystem approach supports both creators and advertisers who want to reach fans across all platforms with more of our deals also beginning to incorporate social and video. And within ad tech, where our AdsWizz platform revenue was up 18% year over year in 2024, we are not only welcoming more publishers into our marketplace, we are also seeing key measurement and technology leaders put an emphasis on audio in 2025 as an area of opportunity, addressing the gap between time spent and media investment.

我們的開放生態系統方法支援想要在所有平台上接觸粉絲的創作者和廣告商，我們的更多交易也開始融入社交和影片。在廣告技術領域，我們的 AdsWizz 平台收入在 2024 年同比增長 18%，我們不僅歡迎更多發布商進入我們的市場，我們還看到關鍵測量和技術領導者在 2025 年將音頻作為一個領域機會，解決所花費的時間和媒體投資之間的差距。

Turning now to another key element of our strategy, increasing efficiency across the entire business. In addition to the focus on our core audience with regards to both our marketing and content spend, we are rightsizing our product and technology costs following a period of high investment, optimizing our organizational structure and are working diligently to achieve the additional target of $200 million in annualized savings as we exit 2025. Tom will speak to these initiatives in greater detail in a moment.

現在來談談我們策略的另一個關鍵要素，提高整個業務的效率。除了在行銷和內容支出方面重點關注我們的核心受眾之外，在經歷了一段高投入期後，我們正在調整產品和技術成本，優化組織結構，並正在努力實現 2 億美元的額外目標到2025 年，我們將實現年度化儲蓄。湯姆稍後將更詳細地介紹這些舉措。

As we noted in December, our 2025 guidance reflects the underlying strength of our platform, our increased strategic focus on our differentiators and the actions we are taking to maximize efficiencies, all of which will drive improved free cash flow. It also accounts for the short-term impact of the changes we are making to the subscriber business as well as the broader work we are doing to improve the long-term health of the business.

正如我們在12 月指出的那樣，我們的2025 年指引反映了我們平台的潛在實力、我們對差異化因素的戰略重點的增強以及我們為最大限度提高效率而採取的行動，所有這些都將推動自由現金流的改善。它還考慮了我們對用戶業務所做的改變所產生的短期影響，以及我們為改善業務的長期健康狀況而進行的更廣泛的工作。

Helping us achieve our goals is Wayne Thorsen, our new Chief Operating Officer, who is now overseeing both our product and technology group as well as key commercial functions. Most recently, Chief Business Officer of ADT, Wayne has incredible experience leading thoughtful and swift change. By unifying these areas of our business, we are ensuring a more rigorous ROI-based approach to all current and new initiatives and will more quickly execute upon updates to our business that will drive subscriber results. You should expect to hear from Wayne on our next earnings call.

幫助我們實現目標的是我們新任營運長韋恩·托森 (Wayne Thorsen)，他現在負責監督我們的產品和技術團隊以及關鍵的商業職能。最近，韋恩擔任 ADT 的首席商務官，他在領導深思熟慮和迅速的變革方面擁有豐富的經驗。透過統一我們業務的這些領域，我們將確保對所有現有和新措施採取更嚴格的基於投資回報率的方法，並將更快地執行業務更新，以推動用戶的結果。您應該會在下次財報電話會議上聽到韋恩的演講。

We remain steadfast in our belief that our offering, from our exclusive content to our leading in-car position, holds a unique and valuable place in the broader entertainment ecosystem. By sharpening our focus, we are bolstering the overall strength of our business in the long term while continuing to deliver for both our listeners and our stockholders.

我們堅信，從獨家內容到領先的車載定位，我們提供的產品在更廣泛的娛樂生態系統中佔據著獨特而寶貴的地位。透過集中精力，我們正在長期增強業務的整體實力，同時繼續為我們的聽眾和股東提供服務。

I will now turn it over to Tom.

現在我將把話題交給湯姆。

Thank you, Jennifer, and good morning, everyone. As Jennifer mentioned, we closed the year on an encouraging note, delivering strong financial and subscriber results that met or exceeded our goals. We achieved several key milestones over the course of the past year that strengthened our long-term foundation while sharpening our focus on the core business.

謝謝你，詹妮弗，大家早安。正如詹妮弗所提到的，我們以令人鼓舞的成績結束了這一年度，取得了強勁的財務和用戶業績，達到或超過了我們的目標。我們在過去一年中實現了幾個重要的里程碑，加強了我們的長期基礎，同時更加專注於核心業務。

Completing the Liberty transaction simplified our equity structure and removed uncertainty. At the same time, we successfully execute targeted efficiency initiatives, achieving our full year goal of $200 million in gross savings. These efforts enabled us to maintain strong margins while we reinvested a significant portion of these savings in business priorities.

完成 Liberty 交易簡化了我們的股權結構並消除了不確定性。同時，我們成功實施了有針對性的效率舉措，實現了全年 2 億美元的總節約目標。這些努力使我們能夠保持強勁的利潤率，同時將節省的很大一部分重新投資於業務重點。

Our commitment to the core business was evident in the way we deepened our agreements with automakers and dealers. These relationships enabled us to introduce a three-year subscription as a dealer paid option, broadening our reach and unlocking new opportunities for audience growth. We leveraged enhanced data capabilities to improve trial conversions, expand subscriber acquisition channels and refined marketing capabilities, driving higher engagement with our core subscriber base and strengthening our used vehicle reach.

我們對核心業務的承諾體現在我們與汽車製造商和經銷商深化協議的方式中。這些關係使我們能夠推出三年訂閱作為經銷商付費選項，擴大我們的覆蓋範圍並為受眾成長開闢新的機會。我們利用增強的數據功能來提高試用轉換率、擴展用戶獲取管道和完善行銷能力，從而提高與核心用戶群的互動並增強二手車的覆蓋範圍。

Innovation continued to be a cornerstone to our strategy. The opening of our new tech center in Ireland was another bright spot this past year, creating a foundation for advancing product development and driving technological capabilities in a financially prudent manner. Combined with an expanding content slate and enhanced subscriber personalization, these efforts solidify our position at the forefront of an enriched in-car and mobile experience.

創新仍然是我們策略的基石。我們在愛爾蘭開設的新技術中心是過去一年的另一個亮點，為以財務審慎的方式推進產品開發和推動技術能力奠定了基礎。結合不斷擴展的內容庫和增強的用戶個性化，這些努力鞏固了我們在豐富車載和行動體驗方面的領先地位。

Turning to our full year results. We delivered a steady revenue of $8.7 billion, coming in ahead of our recent guidance of approximately $8.65 billion. Total subscription revenue reached $6.6 billion, a 4% decline from $6.9 billion in 2023, while advertising revenue held steady at $1.8 billion. Full year adjusted EBITDA was $2.73 billion and free cash flow was $1.02 billion, both aligning with our 2024 guidance.

談到我們的全年業績。我們實現了穩定的 87 億美元收入，高於我們最近預期的約 86.5 億美元。總訂閱收入達 66 億美元，較 2023 年的 69 億美元下降 4%，而廣告收入維持穩定在 18 億美元。全年調整後 EBITDA 為 27.3 億美元，自由現金流為 10.2 億美元，均與我們的 2024 年指引一致。

In the fourth quarter, we generated $2.19 billion in revenue. Subscription revenue totaled $1.63 billion and advertising revenue came in at $477 million. Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter declined by approximately 4% year over year to $688 million. Net income was $287 million, marking a 26% increase compared to the prior year with an earnings per common diluted share of $0.83.

第四季度，我們創造了 21.9 億美元的收入。訂閱收入總計 16.3 億美元，廣告收入為 4.77 億美元。本季調整後 EBITDA 年減約 4% 至 6.88 億美元。淨收入為 2.87 億美元，較上年增長 26%，每股普通股攤薄收益為 0.83 美元。

Free cash flow continued to be back half weighted reaching $516 million in the fourth quarter, up from $402 million in Q4 2023, contributing to full year free cash flow of $1.015 billion or $2.80 per share. Free cash flow per share in the fourth quarter was $1.44, up 28% from $1.13 in the fourth quarter of 2023. 2024's free cash flow was reduced by several items that won't recur in 2025 and beyond, including onetime transaction costs, Liberty overheads and timing differences in tax payments between the former SiriusXM and Liberty.

自由現金流持續回升至第四季的半權重，達到 5.16 億美元，高於 2023 年第四季的 4.02 億美元，貢獻全年自由現金流 10.15 億美元或每股 2.80 美元。第四季每股自由現金流為1.44 美元，較2023 年第四季的1.13 美元增長28%。性交易成本、自由管理費用以及前 SiriusXM 和 Liberty 之間的納稅時間差異。

As a follow-up to our multiyear CapEx guidance, as a result of the timing of the successful SXM-9 launch moving from November to December, $19 million of spend shifted from late 2024 to early 2025. And additionally, we had $20 million of satellite milestone payments for SXM-10 and SXM-12, which shifted from 2024 into 2025. This was already anticipated in our full year 2025 free cash flow guidance of $1.15 billion.

作為我們多年期資本支出指引的後續行動，由於 SXM-9 成功發射的時間從 11 月移至 12 月，1,900 萬美元的支出從 2024 年底移至 2025 年初。此外，我們還為 SXM-10 和 SXM-12 支付了 2000 萬美元的衛星里程碑付款，付款時間從 2024 年推遲到 2025 年。我們已在 2025 年全年 11.5 億美元的自由現金流預測中預計了這一點。

Turning to the segments. In the SiriusXM segment, we generated $1.6 billion in revenue for the fourth quarter and $6.6 billion for the year. Full year subscriber revenue declined by 4% year over year, primarily driven by slower subscriber growth which was impacted by challenges in conversion rates. Advertising revenue remained relatively flat with a modest 1% year-over-year decline attributed to continued softness in the broadcast advertising market.

轉向各個部分。在 SiriusXM 部門，我們第四季的營收為 16 億美元，全年營收為 66 億美元。全年用戶營收年減 4%，主要由於轉換率下降導致用戶成長放緩。由於廣播廣告市場持續疲軟，廣告收入保持相對平穩，較去年同期小幅下降 1%。

Despite these headwinds, we saw a stronger-than-expected subscriber performance. Fourth quarter self-pay net additions were 149,000, an increase of 18,000 versus the fourth quarter of 2023. And for the full year, net additions were down 296,000, an improvement over 2023 of 149,000 or 33%. This performance exceeded expectations and highlights the strength of our product offering.

儘管有這些不利因素，我們仍然看到用戶表現強於預期。第四季自付淨新增人數為 149,000 人，比 2023 年第四季增加了 18,000 人。全年淨增人數減少 296,000 人，較 2023 年增加 149,000 人（即 33%）。這一表現超出了預期，凸顯了我們產品的優勢。

Additionally, churn remained low in the fourth quarter at 1.5%. For 2024, SiriusXM's ARPU was $15.21, down $0.35 year over year, driven by a higher proportion of discounted subscribers and fewer full-price subscribers. The absence of our rate increase also contributed as price remains stable while the subscriber mix shifted. While this impacted ARPU and subscription revenue, it aligns with our strategy to expand audience reach through more diverse pricing and packaging.

此外，第四季的客戶流失率仍維持在1.5%的低點。2024 年，SiriusXM 的 ARPU 為 15.21 美元，年減 0.35 美元，原因是折扣訂閱者比例上升，而全價訂閱者數量減少。我們沒有上調費率也是原因之一，因為雖然用戶結構發生了變化，但價格仍保持穩定。雖然這影響了 ARPU 和訂閱收入，但這符合我們透過更多樣化的定價和包裝來擴大受眾覆蓋範圍的策略。

SiriusXM gross profit for the fourth quarter was $966 million compared to $1.04 billion in Q4 of 2023, yielding a 60% margin, down slightly by about 1 point. For the full year, gross profit totaled $3.9 billion, maintaining a 60% margin.

SiriusXM 第四季毛利為 9.66 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 10.4 億美元，利潤率為 60%，小幅下降約 1 個百分點。全年毛利達39億美元，利潤率維持在60%。

In the Pandora and Off-Platform segment, total revenue for the fourth quarter reached $568 million with $2.15 billion reported for the full year. Advertising revenue came in at $434 million in the quarter, slightly down from $436 million in Q4 2023, reflecting evolving advertising trends.

Pandora 和非平台部門第四季總營收達 5.68 億美元，全年總營收為 21.5 億美元。本季廣告收入為 4.34 億美元，略低於 2023 年第四季的 4.36 億美元，反映了廣告趨勢的變化。

Podcasting has seen a significant rise in listening and strong financial performance in 2024 for the full year, with revenue growing 12% year over year. Total programmatic revenue in 2024 increased by 8% while podcast programmatic revenue saw an impressive 39% growth compared to 2023. The segment's gross profit for Q4 was $192 million reflecting a 34% margin, consistent with the prior year. For the full year, gross profit totaled $705 million, a 33% margin representing a 3% improvement year over year.

2024 年全年播客收聽量大幅上升，財務表現強勁，營收年增 12%。2024 年總程式化收入成長了 8%，而播客程式化收入與 2023 年相比則實現了驚人的 39% 的成長。該部門第四季的毛利為 1.92 億美元，利潤率為 34%，與去年持平。全年毛利達 7.05 億美元，利潤率為 33%，較去年同期成長 3%。

During the fourth quarter, we completed the license transfer of 10 megahertz in the WCS C and D blocks, strategically positioned around our existing spectrum holdings. As a result, SiriusXM now possesses a total of 35 megahertz of contiguous spectrum licenses. This acquisition enhances our spectrum portfolio, allows for greater flexibility in initiating new services and underscores our commitment to serving the public interest. Portions of this additional spectrum will be allocated to support [FEMA] and other agencies in their public safety initiatives.

在第四季度，我們完成了 WCS C 和 D 區塊 10 兆赫的許可證轉讓，策略性地圍繞我們現有的頻譜持有量進行佈局。因此，SiriusXM 現擁有總計 35 兆赫的連續頻譜授權。此次收購增強了我們的頻譜組合，使我們在推出新服務時具有更大的靈活性，並強調了我們服務公眾利益的承諾。部分額外頻譜將分配給支持聯邦緊急事務管理局（FEMA）和其他機構的公共安全措施。

We continued our commitment to returning capital to stockholders, distributing $92 million in Q4 through dividends and initiating share buybacks after our strategic announcement in December, which has resulted in $18 million in buybacks to date. For the full year 2024, we returned $400 million in dividends to the shareholders, inclusive of payments to our former parent company. As we look ahead to 2025, we plan to remain opportunistic with share buybacks. We continue to target long-term leverage in the low to mid-3x range and ended 2024 with a net debt-to-adjusted EBITDA ratio of 3.7x.

我們繼續致力於向股東返還資本，在第四季度透過股息派發了 9,200 萬美元，並在 12 月戰略公告發布後啟動股票回購，迄今已回購了 1,800 萬美元。2024 年全年，我們向股東返還了 4 億美元的股息，其中包括向我們前母公司的支付。展望 2025 年，我們計劃繼續把握股票回購機會。我們繼續將長期槓桿率目標設定在 3 倍中低水平，到 2024 年底，淨負債與調整後 EBITDA 比率為 3.7 倍。

Looking ahead, we remain committed to the strategic direction outlined late last year and are reiterating our 2025 guidance, projecting revenue of approximately $8.5 billion, adjusted EBITDA of $2.6 billion and free cash flow of about $1.15 billion. Regarding cost savings, we are targeting an incremental $200 million in savings exiting 2025. Our efforts include optimizing marketing expenses with a stronger emphasis on subscriber profitability particularly in our SiriusXM streaming business.

展望未來，我們仍然致力於去年年底概述的戰略方向，並重申我們的 2025 年指導方針，預計收入約為 85 億美元，調整後的 EBITDA 為 26 億美元，自由現金流約為 11.5 億美元。至於成本節約，我們的目標是到 2025 年實現 2 億美元增量的節省。我們的努力包括優化行銷費用，更加重視用戶獲利能力，特別是在我們的 SiriusXM 串流媒體業務中。

Additionally, we are implementing significant reductions of both operating and capital expenditures, driven by the launch of SXM-9 last year and a renewed focus on our product and technology road map under Wayne's leadership since December. Furthermore, we remain committed to identifying and executing savings in other areas such as customer service and general and administrative expenses. As these efforts progress, we will continue to provide updates throughout the year.

此外，由於去年推出了 SXM-9，以及自 12 月以來在 Wayne 的領導下重新關注我們的產品和技術路線圖，我們正在大幅削減營運支出和資本支出。此外，我們仍致力於尋找並執行其他領域的節約，例如客戶服務和一般及行政費用。隨著這些努力的進展，我們將全年繼續提供更新。

With that, I'll turn it over to the operator for Q&A.

說完這些，我將把問題交給接線員進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) Cameron Mansson-Perrone, Morgan Stanley.

（操作員指示） 摩根士丹利的 Cameron Mansson-Perrone。

Thank you. Jennifer, I know you touched on the net add kind of outlook a little bit for this year. But I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit just in terms of some of the puts and takes that might dictate where you shake out for '25 even just directionally.

謝謝。珍妮佛，我知道你稍微觸及了今年的網路成長前景。但我想知道您是否可以稍微詳細說明一下某些可能決定您在 25 年走向何方甚至方向的因素。

And then for either one of you guys, on the guidance for adjusted EBITDA this year, it kind of underwrites the worse decline this year than in '24. And I'm wondering, as we think through that, given the upcoming pricing action and a similar run rate of cost savings this year relative to '24, just curious what might be preventing more of those benefits from flowing through in terms of the decline in '25 relative to what you guys were able to execute on this past year. Thanks.

然後對於你們任何一個人來說，關於今年調整後的 EBITDA 的指引，它在某種程度上預示著今年的下滑幅度將比24年更嚴重。我很好奇，考慮到即將到來的定價行動和今年相對於 24 年類似的成本節約率，是什麼阻礙了更多收益從下滑中流出？更好的成績。謝謝。

Sure. Thanks, Cameron. So I guess I'd start on net adds just with a quick review of where we landed in '24. We're really pleased with the trial volume, and then that in part helped offset the pressure we've seen on conversion rates. And we just had much better retention across both voluntary and non-pay churn. And then we saw additional positive impacts from podcasts plus our OEM three-year subscriptions and, in general, improved used car ownership visibility. And in Q4 specifically, we really saw better-than-expected performance across virtually every line in acquisition and retention.

當然。謝謝，卡梅倫。因此，我想我會先快速回顧我們在 24 年的狀況，然後開始討論淨增量。我們對試用量感到非常滿意，這在一定程度上抵消了我們在轉換率方面遇到的壓力。無論是自願流失還是非付費流失，我們的員工留任率都更高。然後，我們看到播客和 OEM 三年訂閱帶來的額外積極影響，總體而言，二手車所有權的可見性得到了提高。具體來說，在第四季度，我們確實看到幾乎所有客戶獲取和保留方面的表現都優於預期。

So that's a good backdrop for '25. We do have some onetime impacts that we highlighted earlier from click-to-cancel rolling in, shorter-term post-trial promotions and of course our pullback in streaming marketing. And most of these will be rolling through in the first half of the year, and we'd expect the impacts of those to be about a couple of hundred thousand subscribers. So outside of these, I still expect to be slightly better year over year in terms of self-pay net adds. And just broadly speaking, I'd say some similar seasonality as we've seen in the last couple of years among the quarters.

這對於 '25 來說是一個很好的背景。我們確實受到了一些一次性影響，正如我們之前強調的那樣，包括點擊取消、短期試用後促銷，當然還有串流媒體行銷的撤退。其中大部分將在今年上半年推出，我們預計這些措施將影響約數十萬用戶。因此，除此之外，我仍然預計自付淨增額方面同比會略有好轉。廣義上講，我認為過去幾年各個季度都出現了類似的季節性。

And then, Tom, do you want to address EBITDA question?

然後，湯姆，你想解決 EBITDA 問題嗎？

Yes. Cameron, so Jennifer talked about the revenue side. And obviously, we're calling down the revenue for the full year. But I think when you look through the variable and fixed costs as you go down, there's obviously the initiatives we're doing to optimize our cost structure and enhance our efficiencies, and there's some level of some offsets of things like higher SAC because of the [Gen A] transition. So we're looking at it, we're more focused on the overall margin. But generally, it's the revenue side and it's offset by the cost savings.

是的。卡梅倫，珍妮佛談到了收入方面。顯然，我們正在降低全年收入。但我認為，當你查看可變成本和固定成本時，你會發現我們顯然正在採取措施優化成本結構，提高效率，而且由於[A 代] 轉變。因此我們正在研究它，我們更加關注整體利潤。但一般來說，這是收入方面，並透過成本節省來抵消。

Very helpful. Thank you both.

非常有幫助。謝謝你們兩位。

Barton Crockett, Rosenblatt Securities.

羅森布拉特證券的巴頓·克羅克特 (Barton Crockett)。

Great. Thank you for taking the questions. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about how you see the environment for the funnel of gross additions into the upcoming year. Is your sense that the funnel has kind of improved with the used car and the new car markets? Or is there still pressure there? A little bit of color would be helpful.

偉大的。感謝您回答這些問題。我想知道您是否可以稍微談談您如何看待來年總增量管道的環境。您是否認為二手車和新車市場通路有所改善？或者說那裡仍然有壓力？一點點顏色會很有幫助。

Sure. I mean, so last year, I think, finished at about [15.8]. But of course, the fourth quarter was really strong on new car sales. And I think everyone is waiting a little bit for what might happen on tariffs. My personal feeling is that the automakers are going to do everything they can, to the extent those go in place, to meet US consumer demand for vehicles.

當然。我的意思是，我認為去年結束時[15.8]但當然，第四季的新車銷售確實強勁。我認為大家都在等待關稅方面的動向。我個人的感覺是，汽車製造商將盡其所能，在可行的範圍內滿足美國消費者對汽車的需求。

But used cars has been an increasing part of our trial starts. And we're at about 50%, and that's with the ones that we capture at point of sale through dealerships. And we've increasingly added partnerships where we get information on used car ownership changes and been able to put trial offers and programs in place there as well to increase our yield through the funnel. So I feel good about the auto market in general. Of course, we'll keep a close eye on tariffs overall, but strong auto business is good for our business.

但二手車已經成為我們試點的一部分。我們的佔比約為 50%，這是我們透過經銷商在銷售點取得的。我們不斷增加合作夥伴關係，從中獲取二手車所有權變化的信息，並能夠在那裡提供試用優惠和計劃，從而通過渠道提高我們的收益。所以整體來說我對汽車市場感覺良好。當然，我們會密切關注關稅，但強勁的汽車業務對我們的業務有利。

Okay. And if I could follow up, you were mentioning that you've had some pressure on conversions, which it's a rate number that you guys used to report and haven't for a few years now. But I was wondering if you could elaborate on what the pressure -- the source of the pressure is and how you see that kind of turning around over the course of this year.

好的。如果我可以跟進的話，您提到您在轉換方面面臨一些壓力，這是您過去報告的一個比率數字，但幾年來沒有再報告過。但我想知道您是否可以詳細說明壓力是什麼——壓力的來源是什麼，以及您認為今年這種轉變將如何發生。

Barton, it's similar to what we've seen in past years with the pressure coming from newer trialers and younger consumers that are entering the automotive funnel and some of the competition we see other services coming through projection technology into the car. But we're -- and we're very focused on stabilizing conversion rates and excited about sort of the broad changes we're rolling through this year across products in terms of the content and features coming in, expanded 360L rollouts, pricing and packaging with a lower entry price and, at least in our testing, better ultimate retention post-trial and post -- initial promotion post-trial and better marketing capabilities, right, with all the data coming back on 360L.

巴頓，這與我們過去幾年看到的情況類似，壓力來自於進入汽車管道的新試用者和年輕消費者，而我們看到的一些競爭中還有其他服務透過投影技術進入汽車。但我們非常注重穩定轉換率，並對今年在產品內容和功能、擴展的 360L 推出、定價和包裝方面進行的廣泛變革感到興奮入門價格更低，而且至少在我們的測試中，試用後和試用後的初始促銷的最終留存率更高，行銷能力也更強，對吧，所有數據都來自360L。

And I think we continue to see better conversion rates especially on first-time trialers with 360L versus non-360L. More features are rolling out. Of course, we've expanded our reach with Tesla and Rivian, which is also going to help improve the overall funnel. And look, I think some of the metrics we look at are going to be different because with our pricing and packaging strategy, it's really an effort to improve post-trial retention after the initial offer. And so that will show up again in better churn as opposed to necessarily better conversion rates, but ultimately better yields for the business.

我認為，我們會繼續看到更好的轉換率，尤其是首次試用 360L 的用戶與首次試用非 360L 的用戶相比。更多功能正在推出。當然，我們已經擴大了與特斯拉和 Rivian 的合作範圍，這也有助於改善整體管道。而且，我認為我們所關注的一些指標將會有所不同，因為我們的定價和包裝策略實際上是為了在初次報價之後提高試用後的保留率。因此，這將再次體現在更好的客戶流失率上，而不是必然更好的轉換率，但最終將為企業帶來更好的收益。

Okay, that's helpful.

好的，這很有幫助。

Jason Bazinet, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Jason Bazinet。

I just had a quick question on the incremental cost saves that you guys are going after. Is the right way to think about it that most of those savings will be reinvested in the business, like the last batch of cost savings? Or is this more focused on potentially generating more near-term EBITDA and cash flow? Thanks.

我只是想問一個簡單的問題，關於你們所追求的增量成本節約。正確的想法是不是應該將大部分節​​省下來的資金重新投資於業務，就像最後一批成本節省一樣？或者這是否更側重於潛在地產生更多的近期 EBITDA 和現金流？謝謝。

So our approach on the exiting 2025, the $200 million and the ongoing initiatives, we're looking to optimize the overall efficiency of the company. And so we're looking across all areas. Right now, we're really focused in the near term on the road map and the product costs as well as optimizing our marketing strategy. We will look as we go forward. There will be -- I think it will be more flowing to the bottom line.

因此，我們對 2025 年、2 億美元和正在進行的計劃的方針是，我們希望優化公司的整體效率。因此我們正在關注所有領域。目前，我們真正關注的是短期路線圖和產品成本以及優化我們的行銷策略。我們將一邊前進，一邊觀察。會有——我認為它會更多地流向底線。

But I will say there's also some level of investment as we redirect and work on our product road map going forward. So I would say you'll see more going to the bottom line, but I would still say we will be investing in the business.

但我要說的是，隨著我們重新定位和製定未來的產品路線圖，我們也將進行一定程度的投資。因此我想說，你會看到更多的利潤，但我仍然會說我們會對這項業務進行投資。

Yes. And I'd just add that the guidance we provided on satellite CapEx is outside of those cost savings. So that's incremental improvement to free cash flow over the next few years.

是的。我還要補充一點，我們提供的衛星資本支出指引不在這些成本節約之內。因此這將在未來幾年內逐步改善自由現金流。

Understood. Thank you.

明白了。謝謝。

Kutgun Maral, Evercore ISI.

Kutgun Maral，Evercore ISI。

Good morning. One on net adds and one on advertising, if I could. First, Jennifer, sorry to follow up on the net adds question from earlier, but I just wanted to better understand the expectations for 2025. You called out that the first half, we'll see a couple of hundred thousand pressure from the adjustments that you're making but that the full year will probably still be up year over year. I know there's some seasonality. But beyond that, is there any more you can share on the expected ramp in the back half of the year?

早安.如果可以的話，一個是關於網路添加，一個是關於廣告。首先，詹妮弗，很抱歉跟進之前的網絡添加問題，但我只是想更好地了解對 2025 年的期望。您提到，上半年，我們會看到由於您所做的調整而帶來幾十萬的壓力，但全年可能仍會同比增長。我知道有一定的季節性。但除此之外，您還可以分享更多關於今年下半年預期成長的資訊嗎？

And then second, I was hoping to get your latest thoughts on the ad market in terms of advertiser demand and pricing. You highlighted expanded podcast offerings, double-digit growth in programmatic podcast revenue, the strength in ad tech capabilities. How do you see these driving benefits throughout 2025? And any initial reads that you could share in the quarter on the ad side would be helpful. Thank you.

其次，我希望了解您對廣告市場在廣告商需求和定價方面的最新看法。您強調了播客產品的擴大、程序化播客收入的兩位數增長以及廣告技術能力的增強。您如何看待這些在 2025 年帶來的駕駛效益？您在本季度分享的有關廣告方面的任何初步資訊都會很有幫助。謝謝。

Okay. Thanks, Kutgun. So yes, a little bit more maybe better clarity on the comments I made on net adds. So we would expect net adds to be negative this year. And then -- but for these onetime impacts, we would be slightly better than last year's negative results.

好的。謝謝，Kutgun。是的，我對網路添加的評論可能更加清晰一些。因此我們預計今年的淨增量將為負。然後 - 如果沒有這些一次性影響，我們的業績會比去年的負面結果略好一些。

So these -- we believe that the impacts of things like this, correction and streaming marketing and onetime click-to-cancel, those onetime impacts will roll through primarily in the beginning of the year through the first half. And that means we would expect to have sort of a similar trajectory to last year, where the first half was definitely negative. And the second half, we'll wait to give more clarity on that. But overall, the net adds would be worse than last year because of these onetime impacts. But again, without them, we still feel good about the trajectory of the underlying business and improving year over year.

所以這些 — — 我們相信諸如此類的影響，修正和串流媒體行銷以及一次性點擊取消，這些一次性影響將主要在年初到上半年顯現。這意味著我們預計會出現與去年類似的走勢，即上半年肯定是負面的。至於下半部分，我們將等待對此做出更清晰的解釋。但總體而言，由於這些一次性影響，淨增額將比去年更差。但是，即使沒有他們，我們仍然對基礎業務的發展軌跡感到滿意，並且逐年改善。

On the adds, do you want to start, Tom?

關於添加，你想開始嗎，湯姆？

Yes, sure. On the ad revenue side, we closed the fourth quarter with $477 million. So we had a solid fourth quarter. And overall, the full year was $1.8 billion in line with what our guidance or what our internal targets were and in line with the prior year. What we're seeing in the market space is podcasts, as we've outlined, were up 24% in Q4 and up 12% for the full year.

是的，當然。在廣告收入方面，我們第四季的營收為 4.77 億美元。因此我們的第四季表現穩健。總體而言，全年銷售額為 18 億美元，符合我們的預期或內部目標，也與前一年持平。正如我們所概述的，我們在市場領域看到的是播客在第四季度增長了 24%，全年增長了 12%。

A lot of that has related to the investments in the strategic content that we've invested in the last year, the Alex Cooper Unwell network, SmartLess, Mel Robbins, and even recently, the Fantasy Footballers. When you look at each one of those, I think we're seeing early positive results. So we look for podcasting to continue, and a lot of those will end up with full year benefit in 2025. And then programmatic is -- was very strong in the fourth quarter. up 38%.

其中許多與我們去年投資的策略內容有關，包括 Alex Cooper Unwell 網路、SmartLess、Mel Robbins，甚至是最近的 Fantasy Footballers。當你審視其中的每一個時，我認為我們都會看到早期的正面成果。因此，我們預計播客將繼續發展，其中許多播客將在 2025 年實現全年獲利。程序化在第四季表現非常強勁。上漲 38%。

And so overall, we think advertising in 2025 will be up slightly.

整體而言，我們認為 2025 年的廣告業務將略有成長。

Yes. I'd just add on to that, what Tom said about podcasting. So we've seen great demand for the new podcast we've added in the back half of last year with the Unwell network, Call Her Daddy and SmartLess. And we've just announced Fantasy Footballers and Stephanie Soo with Rotten Mango. And there are more deals, I think, to be done there with improving margins.

是的。我只是想補充一下湯姆關於播客所說的話。我們發現，我們去年下半年透過 Unwell 網路、Call Her Daddy 和 SmartLess 新增的新播客的需求很大。我們剛剛宣布 Fantasy Footballers 和 Stephanie Soo 將與 Rotten Mango 合作。我認為，還有更多交易可以完成，以提高利潤率。

But there's also a way to capture -- like our sell-through is very strong there and pricing has been very strong. And there's a way to capture, I think, more demand from the advertisers, by selling through the reach these creators have in video and social.

但也有一種方法可以捕捉——例如我們的銷售量在那裡非常強勁，定價也非常強勁。我認為，有一種方法可以滿足廣告商的更多需求，那就是利用這些創作者在影片和社群方面的影響力進行銷售。

So that's a big effort for us this year. We've been improving our data and identity platforms, working more closely with third-party measurement providers to be included in things like MMM models and other methods to better allow advertisers and clients to assess ROI. And we're just going to make it easier and more efficient for smaller advertisers to self-serve on our platform and buy across our networks. We launched Synthetic Voices. We have a lot of smaller advertisers taking advantage of that.

所以這對我們來說是今年的一大努力。我們一直在改進我們的數據和身分平台，與第三方測量提供者更緊密地合作，將其納入MMM模型和其他方法中，以便廣告商和客戶更好地評估投資回報率。我們將使小型廣告商能夠更輕鬆、更有效率地在我們的平台上自助服務並透過我們的網路購買。我們推出了合成聲音。我們有很多小廣告商利用了這一點。

And we'll continue to leverage AI to provide integrated buying features and even help advertisers just automate their media planning to build out full media plans, leveraging AI capabilities. So I think we'll see modest growth in ad revenue this year, and we've got a lot of nice tailwinds in the portfolio overall.

我們將持續利用人工智慧提供綜合購買功能，甚至利用人工智慧功能幫助廣告主實現媒體規劃自動化，制定完整的媒體計畫。因此我認為今年我們的廣告收入將會出現適度成長，而且我們的整體投資組合中有很多良好的順風因素。

That's perfect. Thank you so much.

那很完美。太感謝了。

Stephen Laszczyk, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的史蒂芬‧拉什奇克 (Stephen Laszczyk)。

Hey, great. Thank you for taking the questions. Two, if I could. First on ARPU for Jennifer. I imagine the strategy to refocus the business could have a natural uplift in ARPU over time as you focus less on the promotional side of the market. Beyond that, I was just curious if you could update us on your view around the opportunity to take price over the next 12 months on the satellite side, when we maybe could expect that and the impact from that.

嘿，太棒了。感謝您回答這些問題。如果可以的話，有兩個。首先是 Jennifer 的 ARPU。我認為，隨著你減少對市場促銷的關注，重新聚焦業務的策略可能會隨著時間的推移自然提高 ARPU 值。除此之外，我只是好奇您是否可以向我們介紹一下您對未來 12 個月衛星價格上漲機會的看法，以及我們何時可以預期到這一點以及由此產生的影響。

And then on the advertising business, maybe just a follow-up on Off-Platform. You mentioned more deals to be done. Could you perhaps elaborate a little bit more on how much more inventory you think is out there either on the podcasting side or with third-party audio partners to increase that inventory and then, ultimately, the sell-through? And then the sizing of that and then [will] keep executed against in 2025, that would be helpful. Thank you.

然後關於廣告業務，也許只是對 Off-Platform 的後續。您提到要達成更多交易。您能否進一步詳細說明一下，您認為在播客方面或第三方音訊合作夥伴方面還有多少庫存可以增加庫存，並最終提高銷售量？然後確定其規模並在 2025 年繼續執行，這將會很有幫助。謝謝。

Sure. I'll let Scott take the podcast question in a minute. On pricing and packaging, we have three goals, right? It's enhanced value to support price increases across the base, capture more demand and reduce the use of our promotional plans and acquisition and retention. And so we started in the fall with making content more widely available across our subscriber base, so pushing down the availability of talk and Howard and live sports to our lower-priced packages and also allowing all subscribers to access artist stations in the app and in certain 360L implementations.

當然。我將讓斯科特稍後回答播客問題。在定價和包裝方面，我們有三個目標，對嗎？它的價值增強，可以支持整個基礎的價格上漲，吸引更多的需求，並減少我們的促銷計劃的使用以及收購和保留。因此，我們從秋季開始，讓內容在訂閱者中更加廣泛地傳播，將 Talk and Howard 和現場體育節目的可用性下調到低價套餐中，同時允許所有訂閱者在應用程式和某些 360L 實現。

We're providing streaming concurrency to platinum subs. And we've added things like Walmart+, ESPN+ to really just drive more value among our full price and promotional plan subscribers. And we're looking to do that obviously ahead of rate increases. So we rolled that out in the fall. We've been very pleased with the engagement of those subscribers with this newly available content and we're positioning for a rate increase in March. So I would expect, at least in terms of the ARPU trajectory this year, that you'd see improving trends after the first quarter.

我們為白金訂閱者提供串流媒體並發服務。我們還添加了 Walmart+、ESPN+ 等服務，真正為我們的全價和促銷計劃訂閱者帶來更多價值。我們顯然希望在利率上調之前做到這一點。因此我們在秋季推出了這個計劃。我們非常高興看到這些訂閱者對新內容的參與度，我們計劃在三月提高費率。因此我預計，至少就今年的 ARPU 走勢而言，第一季後會看到改善的趨勢。

So the second piece of this is about opening up more demand. We've talked a bit about the $10 entry price for in-car. And again, it's an entry price. There are add-ons on top of that. We're seeing a nice take-up in those add-ons. This is trialers rolling off their first post-trial promotion who've already selected their full-price package. And that's just starting to happen. We rolled out that new pricing and packaging strategy in the fourth quarter on a significant number of trials, and we're starting to see them roll off trial and onto their promotional plan. After that again, they'll roll to these new prices and packages. And we do believe that, that's going to drive improved retention overall and also on full price packages.

因此，第二部分是關於開放更多需求。我們已經討論過 10 美元的車載入門價。再說一次，這是入場費。除此之外，還有一些附加元件。我們看到這些附加元件的接受度很高。這是已經選擇全價套餐的試用者首次推出的試用後促銷活動。而這一切才剛開始發生。我們在第四季度在大量試驗中推出了新的定價和包裝策略，我們開始看到他們結束試驗並轉入促銷計劃。此後，他們就會再次採用這些新的價格和套餐。我們確實相信，這將提高整體保留率以及全價套餐的保留率。

And then the third piece is again how do we find ways to reduce our reliance on promotional plans and this new pricing and packaging strategy, given that it does improve retention of full price plans will be a significant part of that and over time, we'll look to use these packages also in retention at the save desk as well. So that's a key part of our pricing and packaging strategy. And of course, continuing to drive more engagement across the base with broader content, with more access across devices and more household listening obviously supports the value proposition.

然後第三部分是我們如何找到減少對促銷計劃和這種新定價和包裝策略的依賴的方法，因為它確實提高了全價計劃的保留率，這將是其中的重要組成部分，隨著時間的推移，我們'我們也會考慮在保存台處保留使用這些包。這是我們的定價和包裝策略的關鍵部分。當然，繼續透過更廣泛的內容、跨裝置的更多存取權和更多家庭收聽來推動更多參與，顯然可以支持這一價值主張。

Scott, you want to talk about --

史考特，你想談談--

Sure. So we feel pretty good where we are. As most of you know, we started just growing this from scratch, and we now have four of the top 10 and eight of the top 50 in podcast. As we've discussed in previous calls, the goal is that it has to be economically something that we can live with. But also we're trying to grow the Sirius business. So we started with just straight podcasts, and now we've evolved all the way through where when you look at Unwell, there's two serious channels there and Mel Robbins is doing a show and others, Fantasy Footballers.

當然。所以我們感覺現在的狀況非常好。大多數人都知道，我們從零開始發展，現在我們的播客在前 10 名中佔據 4 個席位，在前 50 名中佔據 8 個席位。正如我們在之前的電話會議中討論過的，我們的目標是，從經濟角度來說，這必須是我們可以接受的。但我們也在努力發展 Sirius 業務。所以我們一開始只是做播客，現在已經發展到現在，當你看到 Unwell 時，那裡有兩個嚴肅的頻道，Mel Robbins 正在做一檔節目，還有其他的，Fantasy Footballers。

So the one thing that we are now in a position, no podcast will come on the market without it being presented to us. So the demand will be there over time. The issue is a lot of the big ones are on existing deals and then they roll off and they come to us. And if they come to us with a smart deal, we're happy to do it and also look at what we can do for Sirius and all of that. If they come with an aggressive deal, that doesn't make sense and there's no -- we're just not going to do it.

所以我們現在面臨的情況是，沒有播客會在沒有我們的情況下進入市場。因此，隨著時間的推移，需求將會存在。問題是，許多大公司都有現有的交易，然後他們就退出並來找我們。如果他們向我們提出一項明智的交易，我們很樂意接受，同時也會考慮我們能為 Sirius 等做些什麼。如果他們提出激進的協議，那就沒有意義了，我們也不會這麼做。

So it's really just up in the air as to when the bigger ones roll off. And then there are young talent, like Stephanie Soo and others that we're looking to get in earlier and try to grow and be with along the way on that.

因此，較大的飛機何時發射仍懸而未決。此外，還有像 Stephanie Soo 這樣的年輕人才，我們希望儘早加入，並嘗試與他們一起成長。

Yes. I think in addition to just adding podcasts to the portfolio, as we mentioned, we're building out more multichannel opportunities for advertisers to come in, access obviously the audio listening, the video listening. We have improved targeting and indicators on YouTube to support that and then across their socials as well.

是的。我認為，除了將播客添加到產品組合之外，正如我們所提到的，我們還在為廣告商建立更多的多通路機會，顯然包括音訊收聽和視訊收聽。為了支持這一點，我們改進了 YouTube 上的定位和指標，並將其應用於他們的社群媒體。

That's very helpful. Thank you both.

這非常有幫助。謝謝你們兩位。

Steven Cahall, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的史蒂文·卡霍爾 (Steven Cahall)。

Thank you. So Jennifer, just to go back to subscriber color. As we kind of think about the first half of the year and the way you talked about those one-off items, should we expect churn to tick up? It was really solid in Q4. But I'm guessing between streaming-only and click-to-cancel, that's a headwind that you've got in the first half of the year. And then should we expect that to improve in the second half of the year as you start to get through some of those initial issues? And wondering if you have kind of a broader outlook on churn, especially because vehicle churn, I don't know if it's going up or down in the underlying environment.

謝謝。那麼詹妮弗，讓我們回到訂閱者顏色。當我們思考上半年的情況以及您談論這些一次性項目的方式時，我們是否應該預期客戶流失率會增加？第四季的表現確實非常穩健。但我猜測，在純串流媒體和點擊取消之間，這將是你在今年上半年遇到的阻力。那麼，當您開始解決一些初始問題時，我們是否應該期待這種情況在下半年有所改善？想知道您是否對客戶流失有更廣泛的看法，特別是因為車輛流失，我不知道在底層環境中它是上升還是下降。

And then just on -- you talked about Tesla and Rivian. I think those are app-based subscriber engagement rather than satellite-based. So is that true? And then how do you think about some of the advantages that you might have in marketing to the app-based environment or overall how you think about subscriber acquisition? And do you think that the EV market will be a meaningful piece of subscribers longer term? Or as you focus on more of this in-car satellite base, is that going to be more at the margins? Thank you.

然後剛才你談到了特斯拉和 Rivian。我認為這些是基於應用程式的用戶參與，而不是基於衛星的。那麼這是真的嗎？那麼您如何看待在基於應用程式的環境中行銷可能擁有的一些優勢，或者您總體上如何看待訂閱者獲取？您是否認為從長遠來看，電動車市場將成為用戶群體中有意義的部分？或者當您更專注於車載衛星基座時，它是否會更多地處於邊緣狀態？謝謝。

Sure. And I think the churn question is logical based on the commentary we've provided. So the idea that we have this onetime impact from click-to-cancel and that might create some pressure on churn in the first half, I think that's an appropriate takeaway. And yes, we would look to see improvements on that in the second half of the year.

當然。我認為，根據我們提供的評論，客戶流失問題是合乎邏輯的。因此，我們認為點擊取消這項一次性影響可能會對上半年的客戶流失造成一些壓力，這是一個恰當的結論。是的，我們希望在今年下半年看到這方面的改善。

In terms of EVs, so they're streaming based but they're embedded, which is a little different than, I guess, an app through obviously projection like CarPlay or Android Auto. And from a customer standpoint, there isn't really a difference from our 360L implementations because we still deliver the breadth of content and the feature set that we would through 360L. The go-to-market is slightly different with Tesla, in particular. These are opt-in trials. And we're seeing very strong engagement when customers opt into the trial.

就電動車而言，它們是基於串流媒體的，但它們是嵌入式的，這與透過明顯投影的應用程式（如 CarPlay 或 Android Auto）略有不同。從客戶的角度來看，這與我們的 360L 實作並沒有什麼區別，因為我們仍然透過 360L 提供廣泛的內容和功能集。尤其是特斯拉，其市場進入方式略有不同。這些都是選擇性加入的試驗。當客戶選擇試用時，我們看到了非常強烈的參與。

But that go-to-market will create ultimately a slightly different profile in terms of conversion to pay.

但這種進入市場的做法最終會在付費轉換率方面創造出略有不同的情況。

One of the areas I'm most excited about is, of course, a lot of our households have Teslas in their garage, and we're seeing a nice take-up in terms of trial take rates among our current households, and looking to add subscriptions in Tesla with that embedded service. And we've seen nice progression in Rivian as well. And the conversion rates, it's early to say because we just rolled them out. But based on how customers are adding follow-on plans in trial, I think that will ultimately look like some of our other premium OEM models.

我最興奮的領域之一當然是，我們許多家庭的車庫裡都有特斯拉汽車，而且我們看到，目前家庭的試用率很高，並且期待使用該嵌入式服務在特斯拉中添加訂閱。我們也看到 Rivian 取得了良好的進展。至於轉換率，現在說還太早，因為我們才剛推出。但根據客戶在試用中添加後續計劃的情況，我認為這最終會看起來像我們的其他一些高級 OEM 模型。

But really excited to have these in place, not only because of the expanded reach but also because of their receptivity, the EVs in general, to over-the-air updates and being able to add new features and present different offerings to customers over time. So yes, it's an ongoing part of our subscriber acquisition strategy, and really excited about having that presence among those two EVs.

但我很高興能有這些措施，不僅因為覆蓋範圍擴大，還因為它們的接受度，電動車總體上，對無線更新的接受度，以及能夠隨著時間的推移添加新功能並向客戶提供不同的產品。是的，這是我們用戶獲取策略的一個持續組成部分，我很高興能在這兩家電動車公司中佔有一席之地。

Thank you.

謝謝。

David Joyce, Seaport Research Partners.

大衛‧喬伊斯（David Joyce），海港研究夥伴。

Thank you. Two questions, please. First, if you could update us on where targeted advertising is on the 360L product and what sort of a contributor that could be in 2025.

謝謝。請問兩個問題。首先，您能否向我們介紹一下 360L 產品的定向廣告目前的位置，以及到 2025 年定向廣告可能發揮什麼樣的作用？

And then secondly, it looked like there were some significant efficiencies in sales and marketing. I think that was reflecting you taking your foot off the gas pedal with the streaming-only product. But what should we think about the spending trajectory from here on sales and marketing? Thanks.

其次，看起來銷售和行銷方面有一些顯著的效率提升。我認為這反映出你在串流媒體專用產品上放慢了步伐。但我們該如何看待今後銷售和行銷支出的走勢呢？謝謝。

Yes. I'll let Tom take the second one. In terms of our opportunity for SiriusXM ads offerings, I think there's two pieces to that. We've got a free preview in market on select vehicles and that will expand nicely this year among a couple of other OEMs. And again, that's a reduced channel set of 40 channels, starts with broadcast ads.

是的。我請湯姆拿第二個。就我們提供 SiriusXM 廣告的機會而言，我認為有兩個面向。我們已經在市場上免費預覽了精選車輛，今年這項預覽將會在其他幾家原始設備製造商中順利展開。再次，這是 40 個頻道的精簡版，從廣播廣告開始。

We'll be able to add the targeted ad capabilities over time there and leverages 360L delivery. I also believe -- and I think the main priority there again is keeping that service open and active so that we have opportunities to upsell into the subscription service over time.

隨著時間的推移，我們將能夠添加有針對性的廣告功能，並利用 360L 交付。我還相信——我認為主要的優先事項是保持該服務的開放和活躍，以便我們有機會隨著時間的推移增加訂閱服務的銷售。

And then the other opportunity I think that will be increasingly important to us is a low-cost subscription with ads, that as we continue to find opportunities to take price on the overall subscriber base, that we're looking to find methods to create lower price points for customers that may be more cost-conscious and are willing to hear ads, frankly, in their experience. You see this very successfully done, obviously, among the video streamers. And so we believe we have an opportunity to start to test into that this year and ultimately provide a pretty broad access to subscribers in process to and ad-supported subscription. And that will come with targeted ads as well, especially in 360L.

然後，我認為對我們來說越來越重要的另一個機會是低成本的廣告訂閱，隨著我們繼續尋找機會降低整體用戶群的價格，我們正在尋找方法來創造更低的對於那些可能更注重成本並且願意聽取廣告的客戶來說，坦白說，這是他們體驗到的價格點。顯然，你會看到，在視訊串流媒體中，這一點做得非常成功。因此，我們相信我們有機會在今年開始進行測試，並最終為正在訂閱和廣告支援的訂閱者提供相當廣泛的存取權限。這也將伴隨有針對性的廣告，尤其是在 360L 中。

Want to address sales and marketing?

想要解決銷售和行銷問題嗎？

Yes, David. So yes, you're correct. We reduced obviously sales and marketing this year as we continue to look through the optimization and also as we've repivoted and in December and look more closely at the streaming and level of marketing that supports that. So when you look at it, we believe in 2025 we'll continue to look to optimize to better leverage the Salesforce tool that we have just recently put in. And I think through that, we'll continue to see better returns.

是的，大衛。是的，你是對的。由於我們繼續進行優化，並且我們在 12 月重新調整了方向，更加密切地關注串流媒體和支援串流媒體的營銷水平，因此我們今年明顯減少了銷售和行銷開支。因此，當您看到它時，我們相信在 2025 年我們將繼續尋求最佳化，以更好地利用我們最近剛投入的 Salesforce 工具。我認為透過這種方式，我們將繼續看到更好的回報。

But I would say that is an area of focus that as we work through our product road map, and Wayne gets here and spend a little bit more time, we'll look at better integration across the platforms.

但我想說，這是一個重點領域，隨著我們制定產品路線圖，韋恩來到這裡並花費更多時間，我們將研究跨平台更好的整合。

Great. Thank you very much.

偉大的。非常感謝。

Thanks, David. Thanks, everybody, for participating today. We will speak to you in the near future. Take care.

謝謝，大衛。感謝大家今天的參與。我們將在不久的將來與您交談。小心。