Sprott Inc (SII) 2013 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Sprott Inc.'s 2013 fourth-quarter and year-end conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. Instructions will be provided at that time for you to queue up for questions. (Operator Instructions). As a reminder, this conference is being recorded today, Thursday, March 27, 2014.

On behalf of the speakers that follow, listeners are cautioned that today's presentation and the responses to questions may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor provision of the Canadian Provincial Securities Law. Forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties, and undue reliance should not be placed on such statements. Certain material factors or assumptions are implied in making forward-looking statements, and actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied in such statements. For additional information about factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from expectations, and about material factors or assumptions applied in making forward-looking statements, please consult the MD&A for the year ended December 31, 2013, and Sprott's other filings with the Canadian securities regulators.

I will now turn the conference over to Mr. Peter Grosskopf, Chief Executive Officer, Sprott Inc. Please go ahead, Mr. Grosskopf.

Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us today. I'm currently in Asia visiting clients, so I apologize if there are any problems with the audio quality or a delay in the sound. Also on the line with me in Toronto is Steve Rostowsky, our Chief Financial Officer.

Our 2013 year-end results were released this morning and are available on our website, where you can also find the financial statements and MD&A. I'll start on slide 4 with a review of some significant developments from 2013.

During the year, our investment and financial performance were hurt by the ongoing weakness in the natural resource sector. Gold and silver prices fell dramatically during the year. Compressed metal equities traded at depressed valuations throughout most of 2013, accumulating in lows towards the end of the year. As a result, our AUM declined from CAD9.9 billion to CAD7 billion at year-end.

No doubt it has been a challenging couple of years for Sprott. Over this period, we have actively repositioned the business for future growth while we wait for the sector to recover. During 2013, we gradually built sales momentum despite these headwinds, and returned to positive net sales in the second half of the year. This was largely due to the success of our recent diversification efforts, with the strongest sales coming from our Enhanced Products line, which is managed by John Wilson. These low volatility strategies have gained traction with investors by focusing on wealth preservation and limiting downside risk.

Importantly, in July, we completed the acquisition of Sprott Resource Lending Corp. in a transaction that further strengthened our balance sheet, and gives us the ability to relaunch our resource lending strategy in a structure that will be more attractive to institutional investors. We now have more than CAD350 million in available capital that we will use primarily in low risk investments, and to seed and launch new funds structured to raise significant assets with the potential to earn meaningful performance fees.

As an example, during 2013, we won two key mandates from Asian institutional investors. The first was a joint venture agreement to co-manage a global mining fund with Zijin Mining Corp., the largest gold miner in China. The second was a mandate to co-manage a 10-year, $750 million Private Equity Fund for South Korea's National Pension Service and the state-owned TEPCO, the largest electric utility in Korea. While these two initiatives are in their early stages and are not yet meaningful financially to us, we are encouraged by the headway we've made in the Asian markets, and we will continue to pursue opportunities to expand our activities in these regions.

Turning now to slide 5, while we've given back some gains over the past week or so, during early 2014, our pressed metal strategies have staged a dramatic turnaround. We continue to build on the sales momentum established in the second half of last year, with positive mutual fund sales year-to-date. The growth of our Enhanced Products line highlights our distribution capabilities, and the strengths of our sales team and our platform in Canada. In less than two years, these enhanced funds have grown from zero to more than CAD650 million in Assets Under Management, and the Sprott Enhanced Equity class is now our largest mutual fund.

In February, we agreed to acquire three funds, which will be managed by Michael Underhill of Capital Innovations. Michael shares our view on the importance of investing in hard assets, and he has a strong track record managing funds for both retail and institutional investors. Recently, we also announced the appointment of two executives, with John Wilson being named as CEO of Sprott Asset Management, and Steve Yuzpe taking over as CEO of Sprott Resource Corp. John took this role over from Eric Sprott, who remains as Chairman and Chief Investment Officer of Sprott Inc. and a Senior Portfolio Manager at SAM. Over the past two years, we have worked to broaden the team around Eric, and the team in general, to ensure that this transition is gradual and a smooth process.

With that, I'll turn it over to Steve to walk you through the financials in more detail.

Thanks, Peter. I'll start on slide 6, which looks at our Assets Under Management. Our AUM was CAD7 billion, as Peter mentioned, as of December 31, 2013, down from CAD9.9 billion at the end of the previous year, and CAD7.3 billion at the end of Q3 this year. Market value depreciation accounted for approximately CAD2.4 billion of the decline, about half of that from our bullion funds, and the other half spread amongst all the other managed accounts and funds.

We finished the year with nearly CAD400 million in net redemptions. However, as Peter noted, we slowly built positive sales momentum in our Canadian mutual funds throughout the year, and reported positive net sales in the second half of 2013. In Q4, mutual fund net sales were nearly CAD70 million positive. This trend has continued into 2014 in our mutual funds, and we expect an ongoing improvement.

Collectively, our bullion funds, managed accounts, and alternative investment strategies experienced net redemptions of approximately CAD0.5 billion during 2013. This includes approximately CAD100 million early in the year of funds previously managed by Flatiron. On the positive side, again to reiterate Peter's comments, we saw significant inflows into our enhanced funds, the Zijin fund, as well as new funds raised by Resource Capital Investments Corp. and Toscana Financial Income Trust. In fact, sales in our enhanced strategies more than offset redemptions from other mutual funds for the year. In July, we completed the acquisition of Sprott Resource Lending Corp. As a result, nearly CAD200 million in net assets moved from our AUM to the balance sheet.

The next slide shows monthly AUM. And you can see fairly graphically that the majority of the decrease in AUM occurred in the first half of the year, as precious metals sold off and the US Fed began to openly speculate about tapering its bond-buying programs. So, in the first half of the year, a combination of change in market value and net redemptions, the AUM went down by CAD2.8 billion, and for the second half of the year was essentially flat.

Slide 8, we talk about AUM and changes by product type. Our AUM mix by product type as a percentage of total AUM is similar to the end of 2012. On the year, our bullion funds decreased from CAD4.9 billion in AUM to CAD3.5 billion as of December 31, 2013. The decline was largely due to the steep drop in the prices of gold and silver during the year, as well as approximately CAD180 million in net redemptions.

Our alternative investment funds as a group reported continued redemptions during the year, but were offset somewhat by the seeding of over CAD110 million for the initial launch of the Sprott Zijin Mining Fund and net inflows into the Sprott Private Credit Fund. Sprott Consulting's managed companies, which comprise Sprott Resource Corp. and the two Toscana managed companies, contributed CAD521 million in AUM, down from CAD802 million at the end of 2012, after adjusting for Sprott Resource Lending AUM that, as I mentioned, moved to our balance sheet. On the year, the Managed Company segment also experienced about CAD150 million in market value depreciation.

Slide 9 gives you a breakdown of our revenue for the year. Total revenue decreased by 28% to CAD114.4 million from CAD158 million in 2012. Management fees decreased by 29% to CAD84.7 million from CAD118.5 million last year -- and this is the real story for the year, reflective of the decrease in AUM and having the most significant impact on our EBITDA. Gross performance fees for the year were CAD9 million compared with CAD10 million in the previous year. However, the majority of these fees relate to the private credit fund. And, as a result, there is a partial offsetting amount for payments to the subadvisor, which is part of our G&A expense.

Commission revenue from Global Resource Investments and Sprott Private Wealth was down on the year and is reflected particularly in Global's results. Interest income increased to CAD9.8 million due largely to the acquisition of Sprott Resource Lending partway through the year, with its substantial loan book and cash. During 2013, we recorded CAD14.5 million in losses from capital invested in our proprietary investments and loans, compared with a gain of CAD2.3 million last year, or in the previous year. Other income increased by CAD7.9 million to CAD19.1 million. The most significant contributors to the gain were a CAD5.5 million gain on [VOG and] purchase recorded on the acquisition of Sprott Resource Lending, and a [break] fee of CAD7.5 million from the termination of our management services agreement with Sprott Power Corp.

Summary financial information on slide 10. Total expenses were CAD200.4 million; but excluding the amortization and impairment of intangibles and goodwill, total expenses are little change from last year. But there were changes in certain expense categories. Total fees fell from CAD19 million last year to CAD12 million in 2013, reflecting the substantial decrease in trailer paying funds under management.

Compensation and benefits increased by CAD7.9 million. Of that, CAD4.5 million relates to payments associated with the Sprott Power Corp. break fee. Salaries and benefits increased by about CAD2.7 million. The main reasons for the increase are the inclusion of Toscana for the whole year in 2013 and accrual for expected earnout payments related to Toscana, the inclusion of Sprott Resource Lending Corp. employees, and of foreign exchange costs on the US Company's compensation, given the weakness in the Canadian dollar in 2013. Other net ins and outs essentially offset each other.

The average headcount for 2013 was two higher than 2012, but we ended 2013 at 183 employees as compared with 196 at the beginning of the year. G&A expense increased slightly during the year to CAD27.5 million, but the change is reflective of some costs increasing and others decreasing. The largest increases were in subadvisory fees, including performance fee payments, and professional fees due to the Lending Corp. acquisition and some post-closing matters relating to Flatiron. The largest decreases were in marketing, fund subsidies and startup costs, and in general office costs, such as printing and postage.

Net loss for the year was CAD81.3 million, or CAD0.39 per share, compared with net income of CAD32 million or CAD0.19 per share in 2012. The majority of the loss on the year was attributable to a previously disclosed non-cash goodwill impairment charge of CAD88 million associated with our acquisition of the Global Companies, as well as an impairment charge against intangible assets of CAD10 million, also related to the Global Companies.

EBITDA -- which excludes the impact of income taxes and certain non-cash expenses, in particular net gains and losses on proprietary investments and, particularly this year, amortization and impairment of intangibles and goodwill -- decreased by 39.1% to CAD34.9 million or CAD0.17 a share from CAD57.3 million or CAD0.34 per share for the year ended December 31, 2012. The next slide shows the EBITDA reconciliation in more detail.

While the slide is somewhat self-explanatory, we thought it would be useful to show the components -- in particular, the amortization and impairment of intangibles and goodwill. Also I should briefly note income taxes. Despite the large loss for the year, we only recover a relatively modest amount of income taxes, mainly because the goodwill impairment charge is not tax deductible. There's no tax shields related to that charge.

Turning to our balance sheet, we currently have an extremely strong balance sheet with, as Peter mentioned, about CAD350 million in investable capital, including CAD35 million in undrawn lines of credit. Approximately CAD200 million is related to the acquisition of Sprott Resource Lending and its loan book and cash balance. We have a disciplined capital allocation framework in place, and we'll be very judicious in the deployment of balance sheet capital, primarily to make new loans, to seed funds, or finance acquisitions.

In the first two months of 2014, the capital book -- in particular, the loan portfolio -- has been performing quite well, perhaps too well, in that a number of borrowers have chosen to pay back some or all of their loans. We will provide a more extensive update with our first-quarter 2014 report.

And, with that, I will pass it back to Peter for closing remarks.

Thanks, Steve. On slide 13, the graphic provides an overview of the current structure of our organization. And as you can see, we've built a platform of multiple business units and distribution channels. And this platform is capable of managing a substantial increase in AUM with minimal new investment. We have the capital, as mentioned, to seed and launch new products and selectively pursue strategic acquisition opportunities.

Our vision, simply put, is to, firstly, grow into the world's preeminent precious metals investment manager with related resource capabilities. By that, I mean both in terms of quality of investment management and in total size. We will make use of multiple strategies, geographies, investor types, and related channels in this quest.

And, secondly, we will continue to build a diversified and high-returning independent asset management franchise in Canada. We'll continue to invest in improving our performance through a team-based approach, focused on clearly defined business plans, enhanced risk management, and more concentrated, actively-managed portfolios. And we will also continue to exploit our competitive advantages by adding to our technical team, which we believe is amongst the best in the industry.

We've developed a company-wide capital allocation framework, as Steve mentioned, to ensure the capital is judiciously employed towards different investment classes, with clearly-defined hurdle rates and specific allocation targets. Importantly, we will continue to reduce expenses in line with AUM.

While it was a difficult year, our view is that the fourth quarter of 2013 marked the bottom for the resource markets and for our Company's results, and we believe the worst is behind us. Despite the quick rebound early in the year, we believe 2014 will be a year of recovery and transition from our historical base to what we believe will ultimately be a stronger firm. There is no rest from our mission of improving investor performance, innovation through the use of new products, and opening new markets for our services. Just as AUM led performance metrics on the way down, it will lead our metrics on the way up. Our team is fully committed to delivering on both fronts.

That concludes our remarks for today's call. We'd be pleased to answer any questions you may have. And with that, I will turn the call back to the operator.

(Operator Instructions). Geoff Kwan, RBC Capital Markets.

First question I had was, when you look at your traditional asset management business, do you feel that you kind of have the products that you want to have? Or are there other product offerings that you may want to try and expand on the shelf?

Well, Geoff, by traditional, do you mean in Canada, (multiple speakers) our diversified business?

(multiple speakers) Yes. Sorry, yes.

(multiple speakers) Or do you mean --?

Yes, in the Canadian business.

I would say we've certainly got a lot to chew on right now with the launch of the Capital Innovations strategies. We are missing a few key categories, but those are difficult to, I guess, formulate value-added strategies at this time, and we are in no rush to add. I think we just need to be opportunistic and to leave ourselves open, but we are in no rush to further broaden the product offering.

Okay. And then the other question I had was, you are obviously, on a number of different fronts, trying to expand through various growth initiatives. And you've also talked about, on the expense side, wanting to keep that in check. From a personnel standpoint, with all these different growth opportunities you are pursuing, do you feel that you have the personnel in place right now to be able to capitalize on that? Or will you need to maybe add a body or two to be able to support these growth opportunities?

Well, I think, categorically, that what we're looking to do is become more efficient through having less people per dollar of EBITDA. So, in other words, more EBITDA per producer, and more AUM per producer. So, if we're adding more people, it has to be because they are adding substantial new clients or a new interest base. So I'd say, categorically, we've got to get more efficient.

Okay, great. Thank you.

Paul Holden, CIBC.

First question -- I'm wondering if you can elaborate at all on how you're thinking about the US ETF market and the potential launch of products down there? Would it be something substantially different than what you offer in the physical trusts? Recognizing that they're not ETFs, but would it be of similar ilk in terms of the investment classes you're -- you'd be offering?

Well, it's still in the developmental phase, but you're correct in saying that ETFs are different than the physical products. However, the investor interest, and the brand name and position that our Firm has in the precious metal area, taps a very similar resource -- that is, a group of clients that know what we do and follow us because of it.

The design and launch of an ETF product is a very specific process, and we think there's room for a better mousetrap. And we think that we have the positioning in the market. And, I think, one of the supporting statistics also of that we have about 40,000 daily followers to our investment notes. The nice thing about an ETF is that once it's liquid, it can add markets and distribution channels much more efficiently and quickly than any other form of investment management. So, no question it will involve some development, but there's also no question that it could grow very quickly.

Is there -- with the bounce we're seeing in the price of gold, is there a window of opportunity here to do more following offerings in the physical trust market?

That's a function of exactly how the inflows are acting on the ETFs and our physical products in particular. We are in no rush to add assets. But at the same time, there's points where a lever gets switched clearly, and so that we can add value by doing an offering. And we're not too far away from those, but we've always tried to time offerings where all of the new buyers have a chance to make money. And the gold market is very choppy right now, so we want to pick a time at which it's settled and where we have a clear opportunity to make people money right out of the gate.

Okay. Can you provide us with total AUM as of today, or at least an update? Because there's been a significant recovery in AUMs since the end of Q4.

Yes. Paul, can't obviously give exact numbers, but there has been a pretty good recovery so far this year, particularly through the first two months. It's gone a little bit softer in the last week or two as metal prices have pulled back. We're still seeing good sales momentum and market value gains. We did lose some AUM, particularly in January, through redemptions of some of our physical product and also the annual redemption from strategic fixed income. But other than that, it's been really positive so far -- the early going this year.

Okay. And given that you've launched a number of new funds and have seen some fantastic performance year-to-date, is there a way you can help us out to determine roughly how much of your AUM would be sort of in performance fee-earning territory today?

Nothing yet, but we're narrowing some of the gaps.

That's helpful. Thanks for your time.

Graham Ryding, TD Securities.

I guess first question would be just for Peter. Peter, you've got a lot of interesting initiatives on the plate. When I look at your offshore fund in Sprott Resource Lending LP, and then now the Capital Innovations Fund, where do you see the most potential over the next year or two? And do you have any sort of AUM targets for each of these initiatives, perhaps by the end of the year?

Well, if I gave you our individual team's targets and added them up, it would be a very aggressive number that I don't really want to quote. So, even the Canadian team, and the bonds and Enhanced and Diversified Fund Group, has a really big target in mind. And we have a pretty big target in mind for the institutional funds because they can come in, in very big chunks. And I think we see some reasonable certainty on some of those now.

And then on the ETF, the first CAD50 million or CAD100 million are really difficult, and then when it starts to click through CAD300 million or CAD400 million, the next thing you're at CAD1 billion or CAD2 billion. So we've got some pretty aggressive targets there. And I don't really want to put a number on it, but what I can tell you is the wind is at our back on all of these now, as opposed to the last two years when it was really in our face. And our team is very incented to make these things happen. So, it's kind of like, once you get some traction, you get a lot of traction. And I wish I could be more specific, but it's a big number.

Okay. And your -- with your reference to reasonable certainty on the institutional front, is that reference to the Sprott Resource LP? Is there any update there on how that initiative is going?

It's going really well. We've received a lot of broad, spread interest. It's a unique product. It kind of fits between almost a private equity mandate and a liquid funds lending mandate. So, it's a bit of an education process. We're hopeful that we can get a first closing done in April, and then a second closing in July. We have some options to get certainty on that fairly quickly. There's always trade-offs. So, we're just pulling it together. And then, in Asia, we're going to see some growth as well, I think.

And then with that Sprott Resource LP, is the assumption that once you close the first tranche and then the second tranche, do those assets come off your balance sheet into the fund? Is that how we should think about it?

Yes. So, the process is a continued runoff in the corporate book, and a seed investment which gets drawn down over time. So if you had a perfect world, one would be getting drawn down while the other is going up, and you completely offset each other. And you'd go back from balance sheet capital to AUM if it was a perfect world; but the differences might be timing-related in nature.

Okay, great. And then maybe just a quick question for Steve. Just on the net sales in the quarter, Steve, sounds like you had some net inflows on the mutual fund side. Where were the net redemptions coming from that offset?

Mainly in the bullion funds. About CAD73 million between the mutual funds and the physicals, in total. But -- so the mutual funds were -- excluding the mutual -- the bullion mutual funds -- were about CAD69 million positive. And the bullion funds, including the gold and silver mutual funds, were about CAD73 million redemption.

And then your alternative strategies, how did they fare?

They were CAD12 million positive in the quarter -- oh, less offshore, was about CAD1 million negative. So, CAD10 million positive in total. So, net for the quarter we were about CAD6 million positive across all strategies.

Perfect, thank you.

Scott Chan, Canaccord Genuity.

Steve, just with the offshore funds -- I see in your MD&A on page 12 that you seeded CAD35 million and raised CAD103 million during 2013. When was that done? And was that disclosed before?

It's -- the Zijin Mining Fund is CAD113 million.

Oh, Zijin Mining. Okay. (multiple speakers)

It's an offshore fund.

It's offshore. Okay, perfect. And, Steve, just on the G&A, it looks like there was a pretty big uptick quarter-over-quarter. I know last quarter, there were some one-time items. But kind of going forward into 2014, is that a good run rate to use this quarter? Or should we look back a couple quarters and kind of look at the run rate there?

There is sometimes noise in the G&A, like with -- if we're doing acquisition, it will be professional fees. Fund subsidies and startup costs are coming down, so it's probably a reasonable run rate -- fourth quarter is probably a reasonable run rate.

Okay. And that's the first full quarter of Sprott Lending as well, right?

First complete full quarter, yes.

Complete, okay. And just on the performance fees, I noticed the amount reported was higher than the preliminary amount that you had disclosed in January?

The preliminary amount was a net number. What's on the financial statements, by necessity, is a gross number. So, you have to net off CAD3-something-million in subadvisor fees.

Oh, okay. Okay.

We pay out a good portion of the performance fee on the private credit trust, which was the biggest generator of performance fees last year.

Okay. And (multiple speakers) --

The offset is in the G&A expense.

And the Private Credit Trust, that's with Paradigm Capital, right?

That's correct.

I heard that -- I heard from -- do you still have a relationship with Paradigm Capital? I just don't see it on the website any more.

Yes, sure we do. (multiple speakers)

Oh, you do? Okay.

They are still the subadvisor of our Private Credit Trust.

Okay.

Which is a -- I mean, it's a fairly large fund.

Okay. Okay, that's good. And maybe just, Peter, just on -- I don't know if I missed it, but when you're talking about international acquisitions, are you looking at US to complement Global and to perhaps turn that around? Or are you looking more towards Europe or even Asia to help out?

All of the above. The key for us is finding -- if there's a fit, it's finding a strategic and personal fit, getting some additive expertise to our investment skills; and extremely importantly, getting positioned with clients in that market. So we've seen very cheap deals, we think, for franchises that could do that in each of those markets. And obviously, we've got limited time and scale, and we've got a lot of things on the go internally. So if one of those happens to be a perfect fit, we'll button it down and bring it in. But if not, we're not in a big rush.

It's just the opportunities are clearly there right now, and we're the only one that's really public, liquid, and in a position to consolidate a couple of these franchises. And I think there's a lot of gains to be had by that.

Okay. Those are all my questions. Thanks a lot, guys.

(Operator Instructions). Aram Fuchs, Fertilemind Capital.

Yes, it's Aram Fuchs, Fertilemind Capital. Peter, if you're in Asia, I was hoping you could give us a little more detail on how the business there is expanding, especially the Chinese and Korean ones. You mentioned that it's (inaudible). Could you give us some milestones of what investors could look for? How it might differ from your other businesses?

Yes. Well, the -- first of all, all of these mandates are fairly custom. And, for instance, in South Korea, what we have is a situation where we get paid on a certain chunk of capital, starting pretty well now, and then that capital grows over time. And it happens on a 10-year basis, so it's reasonably predictable in that way. But generally, when you land a new mandate, it grows in pretty big chunks.

And what we're seeing is CAD50-plus-million ticket sizes, and they take awhile to work through the system, get approvals, close. But we've got some fairly solid candidates to close and add to those platforms in terms of clients. And we've also got new products that they are talking about having us launch. And when we launch them, we want to make sure they have a seed or an anchor client each time.

And so, the nature of the businesses, if they have a seed or anchor client, we can launch with positive economics right away, so it doesn't cost us anything. And then if that appeals to one client, the hope is that it will appeal to sizable funds. And then you start to add in these bigger chunks, and every dollar you bring in from there is fairly accretive.

What we've got now is a very small base of positive EBITDA. And what we've done is basically generated the potential to grow those businesses. And, as we've said time and time again, the Chinese, in particular, are the world's largest physical gold buyers; and, in time, we believe they will become the single biggest swing factor in the global precious metal equity markets. So we need to be there as that happens.

And when you say these funds, are you referring to the funds like the American traded ETFs? Or are these going to be new retail securities in Asian markets for Asian investors?

Well, in Asia, it's mostly institutional. There are some -- there's some chatter and proposals about retail offerings, but those are pretty difficult, and you definitely need local distribution partners for those. So, we are in no rush to go retail in Asia. It's mostly institutional. The ETFs is definitely a retail process in the US, and that's a completely different launch mechanic. But both of those could be, we think, pretty big numbers.

Great. Thank you very much.

(Operator Instructions). Graham Ryding, TD Securities.

Peter, just a follow-on question regarding your acquisitions. It sounds like you're -- or the potential acquisitions -- it sounds like you're looking at more precious metal-focused opportunities, and can you give us an indication of the size of deals that you're looking at?

Sure. It's not necessarily the precious metal. There are some in, what I call, in-market Canadian diversification opportunities. But on the precious metal side, all those franchises have been reduced dramatically in value from two, three years ago. So those are the real turnaround opportunities. And when we're talking about size, we're talking about 10s to 20s, not anything bigger than that. So they're not dial-moving capital amounts. And in terms of chunks of AUM, you're talking CAD500 million to CAD1.5 billion. So, it's more just being seen as the global leader and benefiting from that.

Okay, thank you.

(Operator Instructions). We have no further questions at this time. I turn the call over to the presenters.

Okay. Well, thanks, everyone, for your time and attention today. We look forward to keeping you updated on the business as we can, and to all our shareholders to delivering -- and investors -- to delivering good performance going forward. We'll close the call for today. Thank you.

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.