Sify Technologies Ltd (SIFY) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Sify Technologies financial results for the first quarter fiscal year 2025 to 2026.

大家早安，歡迎追蹤 Sify Technologies 2025 至 2026 財年第一季財務表現。

(Operator Instructions) Please note, this conference is being recorded.

（操作員指示）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。

I will now turn the conference over to your host, Praveen Krishna of Sify Technologies. Parveen, the floor issues.

現在我將會議交給主持人，Sify Technologies 的 Praveen Krishna。Parveen，地板問題。

Thank you, Jenny. I'd like to extend a warm welcome to all our participants on behalf of the Sify Technologies Limited. I'm joined on the call today by sir Raju Vegesna, Chairman; and Mr. M.P. Vijay Kumar, Executive Director and Group CFO of Sify Technologies.

謝謝你，珍妮。我謹代表 Sify Technologies Limited 向所有參與者表示熱烈的歡迎。今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有董事長 Raju Vegesna 爵士和 Sify Technologies 執行董事兼集團財務長 M.P. Vijay Kumar 先生。

Following our comments on the shelves, there will be an opportunity for questions. If you do not have a copy of our press release, please call Weber Shandwick at 1-212-546-8260, and we'll have one sent to you. Alternatively, you may obtain a copy of the release at the Investor Information section on the company's corporate website at www.sifytechnologies.com/investors.

在我們對貨架發表評論之後，我們將有機會提問。如果您沒有我們的新聞稿副本，請致電萬博宣偉 (1-212-546-8260)，我們會將其發送給您。或者，您也可以在公司網站 www.sifytechnologies.com/investors 的投資者資訊部分取得該新聞稿的副本。

A replay of today's call may be accessed by dialing in on the numbers provided in the press release or by accessing the webcast Investor Information section of the Sify corporate website. Some of the financial measures referred to during this call and in the earnings release may include non-GAAP measures.

您可以透過撥打新聞稿中提供的號碼或造訪 Sify 公司網站的網路直播投資者資訊部分來重播今天的電話會議。本次電話會議和收益報告中提到的一些財務指標可能包括非公認會計準則指標。

Sify's results for the year are according to the International Financial Reporting Standards, or IFRS, and will differ somewhat from the GAAP announcements made in previous years. A presentation of the most directly comparable financial measures calculated and presented in accordance with GAAP and a reconciliation of such non-GAAP measures and of the differences between such non-GAAP measures and the most comparable financial measures calculated will be made available on Sify's website.

Sify 今年的業績是根據國際財務報告準則 (IFRS) 公佈的，與前幾年發布的 GAAP 業績略有不同。依照 GAAP 計算和呈現的最直接可比較財務指標的介紹以及此類非 GAAP 指標的調整表以及此類非 GAAP 指標與計算出的最可比較財務指標之間的差異將在 Sify 的網站上公佈。

Before we continue, I'd like to point out that certain statements contained in the earnings release and on this conference call are forward-looking statements rather than historical facts and are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described. With respect to such forward-looking statements, the company seeks protections afforded by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These risks include a variety of factors, including competitive developments and risk factors listed from time to time in the company's SEC reports and public releases.

在我們繼續之前，我想指出的是，收益報告和電話會議中包含的某些陳述是前瞻性陳述，而不是歷史事實，並且受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與描述的結果有重大差異。對於此類前瞻性陳述，本公司尋求 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》所提供的保障。這些風險包括多種因素，包括競爭發展和公司 SEC 報告和公開發布中不時列出的風險因素。

CII's results for the year are according to the International Financial Reporting Standards, or IFRS, and will differ somewhat from the GAAP announcements made in previous years.

CII 今年的業績是根據國際財務報告準則（IFRS）公佈的，與前幾年公佈的 GAAP 業績略有不同。

Those lists are intended to identify certain principal factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in the forward-looking statements, but are not intended to represent a complete list of all risks and uncertainties inherent to the company's business.

這些清單旨在識別可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中描述的結果存在重大差異的某些主要因素，但並非旨在代表公司業務固有的所有風險和不確定性的完整清單。

I would now like to introduce Mr. Raju Vegesna, Chairman of Sify Technologies. Chairman?

現在，我想介紹 Sify Technologies 董事長 Raju Vegesna 先生。總統?

Thank you, Praveen. Good morning, and thank you for joining us on the call. As India is entering into new generation of IT transformation, I firmly believe that next decade of digital infrastructure will be a return in India. The pace at which public and private enterprises are investing in technology, cloud adoption and automation is unmatched, driven by urgency, not just to participate in the digital economy, but to lead it. Government policy, industry ambitions and the vibrant innovation ecosystem are combining to create a perfect storm of opportunity.

謝謝你，普拉文。早安，感謝您參加我們的電話會議。隨著印度進入新一代IT轉型，我堅信未來十年數位基礎設施將在印度獲得回報。公共和私人企業在技術、雲端運算採用和自動化方面的投資速度是無與倫比的，其驅動力是緊迫性，不僅是為了參與數位經濟，更是為了引領數位經濟。政府政策、產業雄心壯志和充滿活力的創新生態系統共同創造了一場充滿機會的完美風暴。

National programs like Digital India, the India AI mission are bringing in investments in compute infrastructure and digital access while regulatory clarity is unlocking private capital into hyperscale data centers, 5G and beyond.

「數位印度」和「印度人工智慧計畫」等國家計畫正在為運算基礎設施和數位存取帶來投資，而監管的明確性則將私人資本釋放到超大規模資料中心、5G 等領域。

India is not just consuming AI, it's rapidly combining up with the value chain to become a creator of AI tools, frameworks and domain-specific solutions. This ambition will translate into robust demand for integrated infrastructure that supports high-performance workloads, edge computing and sovereign set of requirements. India will not just be the growth market. It will be the growth engine.

印度不僅僅是消費人工智慧，它正在迅速與價值鏈結合，成為人工智慧工具、框架和特定領域解決方案的創造者。這一目標將轉化為對支援高效能工作負載、邊緣運算和主權要求的整合基礎設施的強勁需求。印度不僅僅是一個成長型市場。它將成為成長引擎。

Let me now bring in our Executive Director and Group CFO, Mr. M. P. Vijay Kumar to explain both the business and the financial highlights of the last quarter. Vijay Kumar?

現在，我請我們的執行董事兼集團財務長 M. P. Vijay Kumar 先生來解釋上個季度的業務和財務亮點。維傑庫馬爾？

Thank you, Chairman. Greetings to all. We remain steadfast in our commitment to cost efficiency and fiscal discipline as we navigate an increasingly complex business environment. Every investment nation is taken with long-term value creation in mind overseen by a rigorous approach to risk management and effective execution. While our current results reflect the impact of depreciation, interest cost and increased manpower expense. These are highly conscious trade-off in our strategy to build future-ready capabilities across our businesses.

謝謝主席。向大家問好。在日益複雜的商業環境中，我們始終堅定不移地致力於提高成本效率和財務紀律。每個投資國家都著眼於長期價值創造，並採用嚴格的風險管理和有效執行方法。而我們目前的業績反映了折舊、利息成本和人力費用增加的影響。這是我們在整個業務中建構面向未來的能力的策略中高度有意識的權衡。

At the same time, we are embodying sustainability as a foundational business tenant well beyond the requirements of regulatory compliance. Ultimately, our focus remains on delivering predictable, long-term value to the stakeholders while staying true to our disciplined investment philosophy and high standards of accountability.

同時，我們將永續性作為一項基礎業務原則，遠遠超出了監管合規性的要求。最終，我們的重點仍然是為利害關係人提供可預測的長期價值，同時堅持我們嚴謹的投資理念和高標準的責任制。

Let me now expand on the business highlights for the quarter. The revenue split between the three businesses for the quarter was Network Services 41%, data center colocation services 37%, and digital IT services 22%.

現在讓我詳細介紹本季的業務亮點。本季三大業務的收入分成如下：網路服務佔 41%，資料中心託管服務佔 37%，數位 IT 服務佔 22%。

During the quarter, Sify commissioned 8.6 megawatts of additional data center capacity. As of December 2024, Sify was providing services via fiber nodes across the country. And since then, we have seen an increase of 14% over the same quarter-on-quarter.

本季度，Sify 委託建造了 8.6 兆瓦的額外資料中心容量。截至 2024 年 12 月，Sify 已透過全國各地的光纖節點提供服務。自那時起，我們看到其環比增長了 14%。

Sify has deployed about 9,473 contracted SD-WAN service points across the country. A detailed list of our key wins is recorded in our press release, which is now live on our website.

Sify 已在全國部署了約 9,473 個簽約 SD-WAN 服務點。我們的新聞稿中詳細記錄了我們取得的主要勝利，該新聞稿現已發佈在我們的網站上。

Let me briefly sum up the financial performance for quarter one of financial year 2025, '26. Revenue was INR10,723 million, an increase of 14% over the same quarter last year. EBITDA was INR2,111 million, an increase of 18% over the same quarter last year. Loss before tax was INR322 million, loss after tax was INR388 million after considering tax on the profits from our data center subsidiary. Capital expenditure during the quarter was INR2,874 million.

讓我簡單總結一下2025、26財年第一季的財務表現。營收為107.23億印度盧比，比去年同期成長14%。EBITDA 為 21.11 億印度盧比，較去年同期成長 18%。稅前虧損為 3.22 億印度盧比，考慮到我們資料中心子公司的利潤稅，稅後虧損為 3.88 億印度盧比。本季資本支出為 28.74 億印度盧比。

I will now hand over to our Chairman for his closing remarks. Chairman?

現在我將把時間交給主席，請他致閉幕詞。總統?

Thank you, Vijay Kumar. In the quarters to come, we will deepen our focus on enabling AI workloads and attracting a new generation of forward-thinking enterprises. With our integrated infrastructure -- digital infrastructure and proven service maturity, we are uniquely positioned to lead. I thank you for your continued belief in our journey. We remain energized by the possibility that lie ahead.

謝謝你，維傑庫馬爾。在接下來的幾個季度中，我們將更加重視實現人工智慧工作負載並吸引新一代具有前瞻性思維的企業。憑藉我們的整合基礎設施——數位基礎設施和成熟的服務，我們擁有獨特的領先優勢。感謝您對我們旅程的持續信任。我們對未來的可能性充滿信心。

Thank you for joining on this call. I will now hand over to the operator for any questions. Operator? .

感謝您參加本次電話會議。現在我將把問題交給接線員。操作員？。

(Operator Instructions) Greg Burns, Sidoti & Company.

（操作員指示）Greg Burns，Sidoti & Company。

Thanks for the update on the the data center capacity that you added this quarter. Can you just remind us how much data center capacity has already been commissioned as in operation? And maybe what your expectations are for the next 12 months in terms of how much capacity do you expect to be coming online?

感謝您本季增加的資料中心容量的更新。您能否提醒我們一下，目前已投入營運的資料中心容量有多少？您對未來 12 個月的期望是什麼？預計上線的容量是多少？

Yeah. So two things. One is two greenfield data center projects at the National Capital Region, Delhi and at Chennai have gone live in the last four months, both of which have a design capacity of 26 megawatts each.

是的。所以有兩件事。一是印度首都地區德里和金奈的兩個綠地資料中心專案已於過去四個月投入使用，這兩個專案的設計容量均為 26 兆瓦。

From the operational capacity perspective, about 8.6 megawatt got added in the quarter, taking the total operational capacity, built capacity available for sale to 138 megawatts.

從營運容量來看，本季新增約 8.6 兆瓦，總營運容量和可供出售的建成容量達到 138 兆瓦。

Okay. Great. And then I guess, is there like a time line or a road map for other greenfield data centers that you're bringing online? Or is that not something you're ready to share?

好的。偉大的。然後我想，對於您正在上線的其他綠地資料中心，是否有時間表或路線圖？還是這不是您準備分享的東西？

Yeah. No, there is -- there are two data center facilities, which are coming up in Mumbai, which are under construction, which will go live later part of this financial year. Both of them have a design capacity of about 52 megawatts. And besides that, there is other greenfield project also, which is under construction, which details we'll discuss once the project reaches a little advanced stage of completion.

是的。不，有兩個資料中心設施即將在孟買建成，目前正在建設中，並將於本財年稍後投入使用。兩座水力發電廠的設計裝置容量均為約52兆瓦。除此之外，還有其他綠地工程正在建設中，工程進入後期完工階段後我們將討論其細節。

Okay. Great. And I just wanted to talk a little bit about the pay-per-use colocation AI model that you -- I guess, press released a couple of months ago. Can you just talk about maybe how that model works, what investment is required on your end and maybe what you expect the returns to be, maybe the payback period or the types of returns you expect to get on that model? Thank you.

好的。偉大的。我只是想稍微談談按使用付費的主機託管 AI 模型，我想，這是幾個月前新聞發布的。您能否簡單談談該模型如何運作，您需要進行哪些投資，以及您期望獲得的回報是多少，回收期或您期望透過該模型獲得的回報類型？謝謝。

Okay. So Greg, the way payback colo model works. See, we have three data center campuses, Mumbai, Chennai and Noida, all certified by NVIDIA. We are the first case certified by NVIDIA liquidity for 130 kilowatts per rack. So the way these data centers are ready to use for a liquid cooling.

好的。那麼，Greg，回報託管模型的運作方式是這樣的。你看，我們有三個資料中心園區，分別是孟買、金奈和諾伊達，都經過 NVIDIA 認證。我們是第一個通過NVIDIA流動性認證的每機架130千瓦的案例。因此這些資料中心已準備好使用液體冷卻的方式。

And now what we are doing, if anybody wants globally, want to host their GPUs in one of these facilities, we are offering colo as a per use model. So for example, we took about five or six different GPU types from NVIDIA. And we are offering per our base, per demand base, per monthly base, per year base. That way, anybody wants to deploy like AI cloud for either AI training, AI inferencing globally, so they can host with us.

現在我們正在做的是，如果全球任何人想要將他們的 GPU 託管在這些設施之一中，我們將提供以使用模式託管的服務。例如，我們從 NVIDIA 中選取了大約五到六種不同類型的 GPU。我們根據我們的基準、需求基準、每月基準、每年基準提供服務。這樣，任何人想要部署類似 AI 雲端的 AI 訓練或 AI 推理，都可以與我們一起託管。

And so that is a business model we are offered. I think we are offered probably unique. I don't think anybody offered colo pay as you go model. And we are getting some interest. We can -- all these three centers are capable of doing this. So we just started, and we are getting some interest, global presence, global requirements to host here. At this point, we don't know the numbers, and we are marketing at this point, and there is some interest.

這就是我們提供的商業模式。我認為我們提供的服務可能是獨一無二的。我認為沒有人提供按使用量付費的託管模式。我們正獲得一些關注。我們可以——這三個中心都有能力做到這一點。因此，我們剛剛開始，並引起了一些興趣、全球影響力和全球對在這裡舉辦活動的要求。目前，我們還不知道具體數字，我們正在進行行銷，並且引起了一些興趣。

Okay. Great. So just so I understand, you are buying your own GPUs, hosting them in your old facilities and then leasing them out on a per use basis. That's what's happening here. That's the model.

好的。偉大的。所以，我的理解是，您購買自己的 GPU，將它們託管在舊設施中，然後按每次使用量出租。這就是這裡發生的事情。這就是模型。

No, no. No, no. We are not buying GPUs. Other than GPUs, bring your own GPUs, and we can offer you pay-per-use model.

不，不。不，不。我們不購買 GPU。除了 GPU 之外，您還可以攜帶自己的 GPU，我們可以為您提供按使用付費模式。

Okay.

好的。

So if you look at it GPU per hour, they charge, right, something like that. So to complement that, if somebody has GPUs, they can bring these GPUs and we are offer colo model to match that GPU pricing. So that way one can offer GP as a paper model service. Yes.

因此，如果你以每小時 GPU 來計算，他們就會收取類似這樣的費用。因此，為了補充這一點，如果有人有 GPU，他們可以帶來這些 GPU，我們提供 colo 模型來匹配該 GPU 定價。這樣，人們就可以提供 GP 作為紙模型服務。是的。

Okay. And then Vijay, you talked about the -- how you've been investing into the business and how that's maybe detracting from near-term profitability, but obviously you expect to benefit from that over time. Is there a time line on maybe when we might see a little bit more leverage flowing through the model? Is there a horizon on that? Is it a one, two year still investment period that's going to be going on? Is there anything you could help us there with looking out to the future and when we might see a little bit more leverage in the business?

好的。然後，維傑，您談到了——您是如何投資於這項業務的，以及這可能會降低短期盈利能力，但顯然您希望隨著時間的推移從中受益。是否有一個時間表，表明我們何時可能會看到更多的槓桿作用通過該模型？那裡有前景嗎？這是一個持續一到兩年的靜止投資期嗎？展望未來，您能為我們提供協助嗎？我們何時才能在業務中看到更多的槓桿作用？

Yeah. So Greg, as you would have observed from the press release information, segment reporting, the network business and data center business are doing pretty well. The digital IT services is the business where we continue to invest on people to build capabilities in turf and horizon at this point in time, while I don't want to sound forward-looking. But I see anywhere between 12 to 18 months for us to start seeing results from the efforts we have put in over the last two years should start flowing in.

是的。格雷格，正如您從新聞稿資訊、分部報告中觀察到的那樣，網路業務和資料中心業務表現相當不錯。數位 IT 服務是我們目前繼續投資於人才以建立領域和視野能力的業務，儘管我不想聽起來具有前瞻性。但我認為，我們大概需要 12 到 18 個月的時間才能開始看到過去兩年的努力取得成果。

[Mihir Saka, Prithvi].

[Mihir Saka，Prithvi]。

So actually, I'm joining this call for the first time and I joined the call little bit late. (technical difficulty)

所以實際上，我是第一次參加這個電話會議，而且我參加得有點晚。（技術難度）

My question was regarding the data center business. What is our current capacity after the 8.3 megawatts that are added as of today?

我的問題是關於資料中心業務的。截至今天新增 8.3 兆瓦後，我們的目前容量是多少？

138 megawatt of capacity is built and operational.

138兆瓦的容量已建成並投入營運。

Okay. And what is our plan for this financial year? How much are we planning to add?

好的。我們本財政年度的計劃是什麼？我們計劃增加多少？

As I was responding to the earlier queries, we have taken two greenfield data center projects live, where both of them have a design capacity of 26 megawatts each. And as the customer demand gets built up, we will be operationalizing that portion of the capacity.

正如我之前回答的問題一樣，我們已經啟動了兩個綠地資料中心項目，它們的設計容量均為 26 兆瓦。隨著客戶需求的成長，我們將投入使用這部分產能。

Okay. And are there any plans to -- for the IPO of the digital CC infinite space on the cards?

好的。是否有計劃讓數位 CC 無限空間進行 IPO？

At this point in time, we continue to evaluate various sources of raising capital. And we'll get guided by our Board as to what would be the best option for raising capital and the timing of the same. We'll keep the market informed when there's a tangible station.

目前，我們持續評估各種籌集資金的來源。董事會將指導我們確定籌集資金的最佳方案和時機。一旦有實體站點，我們將及時向市場通報。

Okay. And on the digital services business, so I was just going through the detailed segmental report. So on a year-on-year basis, I think so pretty much the top line has been flat and losses have also increased on the operational basis. So what -- what are our plans for the digital services business?

好的。關於數位服務業務，我只是查看了詳細的分部報告。因此，與去年同期相比，我認為營業收入基本上持平，而營運虧損也有所增加。那麼，我們對數位服務業務有什麼計畫？

And can you throw some color, like paint some picture like why the top line has been flat? And what are our plans to turn around this segment?

你能解釋一下嗎，例如畫一些圖畫，例如為什麼頂線是平的？我們有什麼計劃來扭轉這個局面？

Yeah. The reason for top line to be flat is a change in the model where there is a focus more on annuity revenues versus project-based revenues. So earlier, the share of project-based revenues used to be high. We have been gradually moving to recurring or annuity services business. So we'll continue to build our annuity business.

是的。營業收入持平的原因是模式發生了變化，現在更重視年金收入而不是基於專案的收入。所以以前基於專案的收入佔比很高。我們已經逐步轉向經常性或年金服務業務。因此，我們將繼續發展我們的年金業務。

And as far as the losses are concerned, they are a function of the investment we are making in people. We started this journey about three years back. And we continue to build capabilities to be relevant for the India IT services market, about which we are very confident about India enterprises outsourcing their IT to interpret to companies like us.

至於損失，則與我們對人力的投資有關。我們大約三年前開始了這趟旅程。我們將繼續建立與印度 IT 服務市場相關的能力，我們對印度企業將其 IT 解釋工作外包給我們這樣的公司充滿信心。

Okay. And like what timeline or Horizon have you planned to turn this around like into profit?

好的。您計劃在什麼時間表或期限內實現盈利？

Yeah. While I don't want to sound as forward-looking. The current plan is over the next 12 to 18 months, we should see the losses shrinking and the operating performance getting better.

是的。儘管我不想聽起來那麼前瞻性。目前的計畫是，在未來 12 到 18 個月內，我們應該會看到虧損縮小，經營績效好轉。

Okay. Okay. And actually, I was trying to reach out to Mr. Praveen, who handles our IR, and I actually wanted to get more detailed understanding of our business model like offline. So would it be possible to arrange a call or can we connect offline after this?

好的。好的。實際上，我試圖聯繫負責我們 IR 的 Praveen 先生，我實際上想更詳細地了解我們的離線業務模式。那我們可以安排一次通話嗎？或者我們可以在這之後進行線下聯繫嗎？

Yes, you can.

是的，你可以。

We can, Mihir. We can, Mihir.

我們可以，米希爾。我們可以，米希爾。

Yeah. Actually, I already shoot you a mail like a month ago, I will send the mail again. What would be the e-mail ID on which I can send?

是的。實際上，我一個月前就已經給你發過郵件了，我會再發一次郵件。我可以使用哪個電子郵件 ID 來傳送？

Praveen.krishna@sifycorp.

Praveen.krishna@sifycorp.

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

We have a question from Shri Fo, who is a private investor.

我們收到了私人投資者 Shri Fo 的一個問題。

This is Srikanth here. I have a couple of questions, which are more or less in line with what I have asked probably in the previous earnings call as well. The first question would be the newly opened Chennai DC has now started adding to the revenue?

我是 Srikanth。我有幾個問題，這些問題或多或少與我在先前的財報電話會議上提出的問題一致。第一個問題是新開業的欽奈 DC 現在是否已經開始增加收入？

Yes.

是的。

Okay, okay. Second thing is that given that you are in IT services, that kind of a company, not a pure brick-and-mortar manufacturing company. I would have thought the EBITDA margin should expand, right? I mean, closer to the 25% range. But I see that it's consistently always in that 19%, 20% including this quarter, it's about roughly 20%.

好的，好的。第二件事是，鑑於您從事的是 IT 服務業，這樣的公司，而不是純粹的實體製造公司。我原以為 EBITDA 利潤率應該會擴大，對嗎？我的意思是，接近 25% 的範圍。但我發現它一直都在 19% 左右，如果算上本季的話，也就是 20% 左右，大概是 20% 左右。

When do you see that margin expanding? Given that so many DCs are already functional over a period of time, when do you see some operating leverage kicking in?

您認為什麼時候利潤會擴大？鑑於如此多的 DC 已經在一段時間內投入運營，您認為何時才能發揮一些營運槓桿的作用？

Yeah. Shrikant, Vijay kumar here. Srikanth, we have these three distinct businesses with different capital deployment characteristics. The data center business has an EBITDA margin of close to 45%. And we have our network business, which has an EBITDA margin of about 18%. And we have the IT Services business, which the earlier queries also sought information, which is work in progress.

是的。Shrikant，我是 Vijay kumar。Srikanth，我們有這三個不同的業務，它們具有不同的資本配置特徵。資料中心業務的EBITDA利潤率接近45%。我們的網路業務的 EBITDA 利潤率約為 18%。我們還有 IT 服務業務，之前的查詢也尋求信息，這項工作正在進行中。

Okay. And the full year -- I mean, I know generally, you don't give any guidance. In terms of growth across the three segments, would it be safe to assume a double-digit a growth for rest of the year?

好的。全年——我的意思是，我知道一般來說，你不會給任何指導。從三個細分市場的成長來看，今年剩餘時間的成長率是否可以達到兩位數？

That's a wish list all of us work for.

這是我們所有人都為之努力的願望清單。

Okay. And I see that the network business has always been stable, roughly around 40% of the overall business. Data center, obviously being an emerging sector and a growth sector has slowly creeped up from -- I don't know, from 25% contribution to the top line to now almost close to 35%, 36%, I think. And the digital has been degrowing from 28%, 29% to now, I think this quarter may be roughly 21%, 22% --

好的。而且我看到網路業務一直比較穩定，大概佔整體業務的40%左右。資料中心顯然是一個新興產業和成長產業，它已經慢慢地從——我不知道，從營業收入的 25% 貢獻上升到現在接近 35%、36% ，我想。數位成長從 28%、29% 下降到現在，我認為本季可能大約為 21%、22%——

You're right.

你說得對。

This is in line with the conscious call that the digital will remain a part of the offering, but we don't see that as a growth driver.

這符合數位化仍將是產品一部分的意識，但我們並不認為這是成長動力。

No, no, no. That will be a growth driver. But there's a change of the business model, which I was articulating earlier. The digital services earlier used to be more project-based revenue, whereas now it's more of a services-based revenue. And when you do annuity recurring kind of a business, the revenues are small, but they come over a longer period.

不，不，不。這將成為成長動力。但商業模式發生了變化，正如我之前所闡述的。以前的數位服務更多的是基於專案的收入，而現在更多的是基於服務的收入。當你從事年金循環業務時，收入雖然很少，但會在較長的時期內產生。

So that's a conscious decision we took about a few years back, and it is work in progress as we are changing the mix.

這是我們幾年前做出的一個有意識的決定，隨著我們不斷改變組合，這項工作仍在進行中。

Right, right. And I'm not looking at the net income as such. But even the EBITDA margins have been slightly improving, not that much. What are the -- I'm sure it's a combination of both like wherever we can get some premium pricing or premium offerings or add-on services to get that traditional additional margin and maybe some operating leverage or a reduction in SG&A. When do you see that the margins more towards the -- at the group level, at the consolidated level, seeing more in the 25% region?

對，對。我並沒有關注淨收入本身。但即使 EBITDA 利潤率略有提高，但幅度也不大。我確信這是兩者的結合，無論在哪裡，我們都可以獲得一些溢價或優質產品或附加服務，以獲得傳統的額外利潤，也許還有一些經營槓桿或銷售、一般和行政費用的減少。何時會看到利潤率更接近——在集團層面、在合併層面，在 25% 的範圍內？

No, no, no. Of course, Of course, Of course. We have a bigger aspirational goals, but we are trying to achieve that.

不，不，不。當然，當然，當然。我們有更大的理想目標，但我們正在努力實現它。

So once we see the IT Services business gain traction, automatically, we should see that reflecting in the consolidated EBITDA.

因此，一旦我們看到 IT 服務業務獲得發展動力，我們就應該自動看到這反映在合併 EBITDA 中。

Any -- of course, I know you guys are trying very hard. Any -- let's see a gradual like 100 basis point improvement over the next several quarters?

任何——當然，我知道你們都非常努力。有沒有什麼——讓我們看看未來幾季是否會逐步提高 100 個基點？

We are certainly working for that, certainly working for that.

我們當然正在為此而努力，當然正在為此而努力。

I think at 25% margin, everything changes, right? The books look far more accretive.

我認為，當利潤率達到 25% 時，一切都會改變，對嗎？這些書看起來更有價值。

Our focus is not on the consolidated one because all the three businesses are different. So I think we will -- I don't want to spell out the target EBITDA. But data center will be more or less will get a little operating leverage benefit. Network, we will see a little higher operating leverage benefit. On the IT services business, once we get the offerings more stable, and it gets to profitability, it will improve.

我們的重點並不在合併後的業務上，因為這三項業務都是不同的。所以我認為我們會——我不想詳細說明目標 EBITDA。但資料中心或多或少會獲得一點營運槓桿效益。網路方面，我們將看到略高一點的經營槓桿效益。在 IT 服務業務方面，一旦我們提供的產品更加穩定，並且能夠獲利，情況就會改善。

Thank you very much. Well, we appear to have reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I will now hand back over to the management team for their closing remarks.

非常感謝。好吧，我們的問答環節似乎已經結束了。現在我將把發言權交還給管理團隊，請他們作最後發言。

Thank you for your time on this call. Have a great day. Thank you.

感謝您撥通電話。祝你有美好的一天。謝謝。

Thank you very much. That does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.

非常感謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開電話線，祝您有美好的一天。我們感謝您的參與。