Star Group LP (SGU) 2009 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Star Gas Partners Fiscal Fourth Quarter conference call.

At this time all participants are in a listen-only mode. Following the Management's prepared remarks we will hold a Q&A session. (Operator Instructions). As a reminder, this conference is being recorded, today, December 10th, 2009.

I would now like to turn the conference over to Dan Donovan, Chief Executive Officer.

Thanks, Cindy.

Good morning and thank you for joining our call and webcast. With me today is Star's Chief Financial Officer, Rich Ambury. Rich will have some brief comments on the fiscal fourth quarter and the twelve months ended September 30th, 2009. My remarks will follow and then we will be happy to take your questions. Before we begin, as always, our Chris Witty, of our investor relations firm, Darrow Associates, will read the safe harbor statement.

Chris?

Thanks, Dan. Good morning.

The conference call may include forward-looking statements that represent the Partnership's expectations and beliefs concerning future events that involve risks and uncertainties and may cause the Partnerships actual performance to be materially different from the performance indicated or implied by such statements. All statements other than statements of historical facts included in this conference call are forward-looking statements. Although the Partnership believes that the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements are reasonable, it can give no assurance that such expectations will prove to have been correct.

Important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from the Partnership's expectations are disclosed in this conference call and in the Partnership's annual report and Form 10-K for the fiscal year, ended September 30th, 2009. All subsequent written and oral forward-looking statements attributable to the Partnership or persons acting on its behalf are expressly qualified in their entirety by the cautionary statements. Unless otherwise required by law, the partnership undertakes no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, after the date of this conference call.

I would like to turn it over, now, to Star's Chief Financial Officer, Rich Ambury, for review of the operating results. Rich?

Thanks, Chris.

In looking at the quarter, our volume was down 7.8%, basically in line with net customer losses. The challenges brought on by the current economic conditions continue to impact our installation and service department. As a result, our gross profit declined by $2.4 million, resulting to a fall off in this line item. Our operating expenses rose, due to higher vehicle fuels expense, frozen pension expense, and other increases. For the quarter, we posted net income of $32 million, as compared to a $92 million loss in the prior year period. It is important to note that we recognize a non-cash tax benefit of $61 million in the quarter, as we reversed most of the valuation allowance associated with our deferred tax assets. Going forward, we will be reporting both current and deferred income tax expense. Net income also benefited by a non-cash favorable change in our derivatives of over $70 million.

For those of you that are new to our calls we normally expect to post adjusted EBITDA losses during the summertime period. The adjusted EBITDA loss increased by $7.4 million to a loss of $19.4 due to the decline in installation and service profitability and the increase in operating expenses, as I just explained. While our fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA loss did increase, it was $2.2 million less than the $22 million adjusted EBITDA loss for the fourth quarter of fiscal 2007. In turning to the fiscal year results, our volume declined just under two million gallons to 349 million gallons, as the additional volume provided by colder temperatures was reduced by net customer attrition and conservation. However, our product gross profit increased by $52.5 million, on a strength of higher home heating oil gross profit margins.

As you might recall, the Partnership benefited from declining oil prices, in fiscal 2009, versus fiscal 2008, which was a year in which wholesale product costs reached record highs. Again, the economic downturn was largely responsible for a reduction in installation and service profitability of $7 million. Our operating expenses, excluding non-cash depreciation and amortization, increased by $15 million, due to higher delivery costs, marketing expenses, frozen pension plan expense, and other increases. Our net income increased by $144 million to $131 million, reflecting a $52.5 million increase in product gross profit, the aforementioned reversal of our tax valuation allowance, and a favorable change in the value of our hedges of $39 million. Both the change in income taxes and the derivatives were non-cash in nature. We achieved adjusted EBITDA of $86 million, up $30 million or 55% over fiscal 2008, due to colder weather and margin management.

In looking back on the year, we took proactive steps to strengthen our balance sheet and increase our cash flow. We repurchased $40 million of our notes, which will lower our annual interest expense by $4 million, and we extended our bank credit facility to July 2012. During the course of the year, our credit ratings were upgraded and we increased our trade credit to approximately $24 million. We are still buying-in our own units in the open market and have repurchased approximately 4 million units thus far.

In looking at our cash needs going forward, we estimate that our frozen pension plan for the next five years will require funds of $27 million, of which $13 million must be funded by the end of fiscal 2010. Over the last several years, we have utilized a good portion of our NOLs and at December 31st, 2009, we estimate that our NOLs will be approximately $44 million. After we exhaust our NOLs, our cash taxes will increase significantly, which will reduce the funds available for distribution.

As we have mentioned in previous calls, we believe that the best use of our liquidity is to make strategic acquisitions. That said, another great use of our liquidity is to repurchase our own units as the economics of buying our own units is quite similar to an acquisition without the associated transactional risks. Since August 2009, we have used $16 million to repurchase our own units and have reduced the units outstanding by approximately 5%, which increases the cash flow per unit available for the remaining stakeholders. We also believe that a fine use of our cash is to buy back our own debt and are considering calling in a portion of our debt in fiscal 2010, depending upon our cash needs. For example, if we bought back $50 million in debt, our cash flow after tax would increase by approximately $3 million or over $0.04 per unit.

Another option for our liquidity is to increase the distribution to our unit holders. As we get more visibility on the current year, we will evaluate the distribution level for the remainder of fiscal 2010. Both our note and bank agreements require us to meet certain financial tests before we get back any distribution. For distributions in excess of the annual minimum quarterly distribution, the hurdles to pay these distributions increase. We must be certain we can comfortably meet these tests before we increase any distribution.

Let me turn the call back to Dan for some additional comments.

Okay. Thanks, Rich.

While we are pleased with the financial results of the 2009 fiscal year, we still have a lot of work to do. As with every year, this one presented its fair share of challenges and opportunities, and I would like to just take a few minutes to review some of those and talk about some of our plans going forward. First and most importantly, we were pleased to get back on a regular scheduled distributions this year. In addition, our strong cash position has enabled us to, as Rich just mentioned, pay down $40 million in long-term debt as well as to repurchase approximately 4 million units. And at the same time, this has allowed us to be financially prepared for two areas of real concern, price spikes and colder than normal weather. Of course, our cash position will enable us to make acquisitions when the right opportunities present themselves.

While we have not raised the annual distribution to unit holders, we have discussed this option many times and we will be giving it further consideration, as fiscal 2010 and its weather and the price of oil unfolds. As Rich just mentioned, we must be mindful of being in compliance with our covenants, as we examine our ability to sustain a higher distribution level, while also, at the same time, retaining the funds needed for the proper conduct of our business. We are also mindful that as our NOLs decline, our tax liability will increase and, obviously, could affect future distributions.

We believe that the actions that the Board has decided to take, lower debt, pay back or buying back units, making attractive acquisitions, preparing for price spikes and cold weather are in the best long term interest of the Company and our unit holders. Regarding attrition, a very key item that we concentrate on all the time, the gain and loss components of our attrition numbers indicate that while the decrease in account gains versus 2008 occurred in the last six months of the fiscal year, the same period showed an improvement in losses versus last year. Put another way, our unfavorable variance in losses occurred early in the fiscal year when prices were tumbling from their all-time highs. During this period customers were looking to get out of protected price agreements. Many did and after paying an early termination fee, sought another supplier. We feel that without the record drop in prices from July '08 to December '08 these losses would not have occurred. I might add also that during all of fiscal 2009, we experienced a large increase in cancellation of accounts, due to credit reasons, meaning they cannot pay their past due balances.

More recently, customer additions fell substantially during the last quarter of '09 as compared to the same quarter in '08 when their existed a frenzy to obtain a protected price due to a great deal of publicity regarding the potential for oil to go to increasingly high levels. The first two months of this fiscal year are also following these same trends. We have fuel losses, but less gains as well. We continue to seek ways to both increase gains and maximize retention. We consider this our top priority and the message of accountability in this area has been conveyed in all operating and sales groups. We continue to believe that the five part plan we have in place will achieve the results we seek, to be geographically local to our customer base, to emphasize excellence in delivering personalized customer service, to back that up with strong training programs, and to incentivize that effort and then to control results with a vigorous quality assurance program. We take these measures very seriously and are constantly soliciting feedback from our customers as to how to improve our service levels.

We have come a long way in the past five years as our financial results clearly demonstrate, but we have great challenges ahead. In line with the disciplined approach developed when Star recapitalized in 2006, our focus has been on insuring that our retail business delivers the very best in home heating and air conditioning service to our valued customers at the local level. We felt then, we and still do, that the key to operating a successful company is to repeatedly demonstrate to consumers that we are the best choice for helping them protect their largest asset, their homes. We do this by offering outstanding customer service in all facets of our business.

Regarding acquisitions, while we were only to able to acquire one heating oil company during the fiscal year that just ended, we've had the opportunity to review several potential candidates both large and small. In any case where we make a bid, we base it on sound economics that will allow an acquisition to generate reasonable and attractive returns. We are hopeful that some small acquisitions that we are currently reviewing will be closed in the near future, and we continue to focus on and search for potential acquisitions which will be profitable for Star Gas.

Price of oil, I just want to mention we have discussed this had on several quarterly calls. The last two year have been particularly challenging due to significant price volatility, heightened pricing awareness, continued conservation, and a weakened economy. In particular, the steep drop in the price of heating oil from July of '08 to December of '08, which by the way was over $2.50 per gallon, created many problems for customer who had already locked into a price for the heating season. Heightened volatility has caused many consumers to be much more aware about the price they pay and thus has made it even more imperative that we position ourselves as the premier service focus company I described earlier. At the same time, we will continue to manage our balance sheet, conservatively, so that we will remain well-positioned for the winter season, as we worked to once again achieve improved operating performance.

With that, Cindy, we'll be pleased to address and questions that are out there.

(Operator Instructions). We will pause for just a moment to give everyone an opportunity to signal. We will take our first question from Richie Gohl at Avon.

Hey guys. Quick question for you. You guys said you have repurchased 5 million, or approximately 4 million shares, in fiscal year 2009. Is that number against the 7.5% that the Board has authorized or is that, does that include some shares that were not in that number?

We repurchased all of those shares in fiscal 2009. It has basically purchased 4 million units to date. That again is against the 7.5 million.

Okay. So, do you guys have a share count that you guys could share? Is that close to $71 million outstanding, or --

It is -- Sure. $76,100,000 less $4 million. So it is $72,100,000, ball park.

In terms of evaluating the "callability" of the bonds, I know you guys had authorized a certain dollar amount of bond repurchases. Would we think that it is going to be in the same magnitude if you guys do choose to do something once the call price steps down in February?

I believe authorization was around $20 million, $25 million. And we might be looking to increase that authorization above the $20 million, $25 million level. I said in my remarks about $50 million. It is possible we might call $50 million. But we still need to do the analysis.

During the quarter, is it right to assume that is was only a couple million you were able to repurchase?

I believe in the last quarter, yes, it was a couple million. I would have to check the exact number.

Around the NOL, what timing do you think in terms of using up the remaining NOL when you talk about your tax liability increasing? Is there a timetable you think you will be using it for and do any of these debt repurchases and share repurchases, substantially hit that NOL number?

I believe neither the debt repurchase nor the equity purchase will impact the NOLs. Over the last five years, on average, we've used about $26 million of our NOLs. You have to look at this as a tax year, as opposed to a fiscal year which is a little wrinkle, but we used about $26 million each and every year, and we have $40 million left -- $44 million left -- so, the math of 44 divided by 26 is going to give you 1.5 to 2.5 years or so, depending on the weather and whatever else may happen. Now if we do repurchase the debt, that will speed up the use of the NOLs in thinking about it, because our interest expense will be de-lumped.

Yes. If you call it at a premium to part, would that generate a loss as well?

Probably, it will generate the 1.8% loss, and I would have to check whether that is actually tax deductible or not. That I don't know off hand.

And last question. Have you guys ever disclosed what those, what your distribution could be at the maximum today? I know you guy, you know managed to your covenants and have to be mindful of managing cash, but I was just curious, where the current distribution sits versus what its maximum distribution could be, what kind of magnitude we might be looking at if there is an increase?

We really haven't run the numbers, but we do have to run that through our fixed charge coverage ratio, which includes, lots of things like the taxes that we pay, like our maintenance capital, our interest expense, distributions, as well as pension payments. And there's pension payment that is we have staring us in the face in 2010 because of the fall off in the equity markets over the next year, year and a half, is going into that calculation.

We will take our next question from Max Kyes at Gabelli & Company.

Hey guy, it is actually Mac Sykes. Just a couple of quick questions, what are the inputs for, other than the obvious, for margin per gallon? I see it's steadily been moving up. Is that pricing with your customers and getting a better mix there? Is it purchasing, hedging, what is the inputs there?

The hedging only allows us to keep us from speculating, basically. The way we, the way we have our customer base, we have more customers on a variable price than we've ever had. It is about 52% on a variable price and about 48% on a protected price and most of the protected price customers on what we call the ceiling plan, some other people call it a caps plan. And we set our ceiling price at a limit in order to return the correct margin that we are going to need to run the business, but that number has a number of fixed price customers, which is is a locked in margin that you have to live with come heck or high water, that has decreased a lot, and that basically has a lot to do with what happened from July, '08 to December, '08, when a lot of customers locked in at very high prices. If you remember, July 15, 2008, the price of oil in New York Harbor was about $4.08 a gallon, and people were being advised to lock in your price and a lot of them did, and when we locked in that price, obviously, we covered it. Because of the bad experience those customers had with that fixed price, they've gone away from that, and more people, if they are going toward a protected price are going toward the ceiling program. And some are just staying on the variable figure and they'll move with the market without having the price protection on the upside.

So, at this point, is the movement to variable helping the average margin, or hurting it?

Yes, I think having variable price customers is probably better for us, and I think it is also better, a lot of consumers think it is better for them because they like us, they have realized they have no idea where the price of oil is going. If the price of oil -- if they start thinking it is going to go up they will call us and we can lock them into a protective program, but of course there's always a cost for a protected program. In order to get that ceiling coverage we have to, we have to use options to do that and of course there's a price, that is always going to have to be added on to that particular price for that customer.

Okay.

So I would say that more customers now are saying they will stay with the variable price than we've had say in the last two or three years.

Okay. And then, I think you had mentioned, in previous calls about, deal structures or EBITDAs, three to four times, EBITDA. Was that correct when you were looking at potential acquisitions? And so I guess my question would be after that would be, when you think about your buy back, is that kind of the metric that you would use in thinking about where you would be purchasing stock and the ceiling for that. et cetera?

Yes, that's what we are looking at.

So am I correct on the three to four times for acquisitions then?

Yes I would say, that it is in the range of from 3 to 4, and sometimes 4.5.

Okay. And last thing I think you mentioned the movement to a C-corp. I am just curious what the savings might be on that? I know you've been considering it. Would that be material?

It probably would not be all that material because they're -- it all depends on what your definition of material, because there are a lot of expenses, to process the K 1s, which costs us between $350,000 to $500,000 a year in RK1's. We are vastly different from any other partnership and in our RK1s which shows up as the income would be dividend income and that would be the same as because we are a C-corp, that's where our assets are at -- are at the C-corp, and do we get a 1099 DIV from a C-corp, but from us you are getting a K1 that has dividend income on it. So, basically, it is the same tax event to a unit holder the way we are structured. So if we can eliminate the K-1 processing, maybe we could save $.5 million, which a $.5 million is $.5 million.

Yes. Okay.

And one other question I wanted to respond to, a little bit, what -- fiscal 2009 and fiscal 2008 were vastly different as far as the movement in home heating oil prices. 2009, prices came down, 2008 prices kept going up.

Okay. Thank you very much, great quarter.

We will take our next question from Howard Broethe at Wunderlich Securities.

Great quarter, gentlemen. Can you discuss the after tax ramifications of buying the bonds versus buying the units? Why would it not be better to buying more units rather than retiring the bonds on an after tax basis?

Well, I think you have to look at both actually. I mean our units are yielding 7.6%, on an after tax basis. And our debt on an after tax basis, we would say $3 million, that's like a 6% to 6.5% return after tax on the debt, so they're quite similar.

There are -- limitations too in how many units we can buy back.

According to our plan, yes.

What about increasing the number of units? You've only bought close to half of what you have authorized?

There's also under the plan that we have in place, we are limited to the number of units that we can buy back during any given day, and to buy back probably the balance of the units it probably will take us at least a year to do. So it is -- there is a physical limitation after the number of units that we can buy back and how long it will take.

That's the limitation I was referring to.

That's pursuant to 10-D5?

Yes, sir.

I understand that, but still if someone showed up with a block, would you not take advantage of that?

If someone showed up with a block, we would.

Thank you.

We will take our next question from Brad Corsey at Dunham Partners.

Hi. I wanted to follow up question on the tax issues you were talking about. The holder and getting the K1s, and comparing this to other publicly traded partnerships, I was unaware that like you were saying that the, all of the assets are in a corporate forum and the taxes you are referring to are corporate taxes? Maybe can you just detail that a little bit more, so we can all understand how that works?

Sure. We, underneath the Partnership, there's a C corporation. And that is where all of the assets are that generate cash flows of the Company. We currently have, or we are projected today have around $44 million of NOLs at the end of December, 2009. After a few years, we will run out of those NOLs and we'll become a full-fledged taxpayer in that C-corp.

Now, the cash that moves from the C-corp to the Partnership, that cash when it comes up for most part is treated as dividend income, and as dividend income, shows up on a K1, which you will receive and you take that K1 and that dividend income and post it to your tax return. That's really no different than owning a share, if you will, in a C-corporation, and getting a 1099 DIV from that C-corporation. So we just, unfortunately or fortunately, this is a structure that we had and have the step of going through getting a K 1 and on that it is just dividend income like you would to have a normal C-corporation. There's other adjustments to income on the K1 as well, but for the most part, it is dividend income.

Okay, thanks for explaining that.

You're welcome.

We will take our next question from George Graw at DTN.

Thank you. I was looking for your outlook, on hitting on demand because you talked about the fact that you are going to be preparing for any kind of winter that you might have. So, in that respect, what demand outlook do you have for this winter and maybe --

You talk about demand outlook, we know what our customer base is and know what those customers usually will consume in a normal year. We do all of our planning, all of our budgeting based upon a normal winter.

Okay.

So the demand outlook is going to depend upon just how cold it gets or how warm it gets. And it is as simple as that. Of course the economy plays a part in it, too. Rich had mentioned in his comments about how our service income and installation income was down this year compared to other years because, for most people, it's discretionary purchase and they have been holding back in upgrading heating equipment and upgrading air conditioning equipment, so we are hoping if the economy rebounds, that that will pick up. But, our main forte is selling home heating oil and a lot of that depends upon totally the weather.

Okay. Good. Thanks.

Our next question comes from a private investor, Chester Kirshembaum.

Guys, first of all let me compliment you on a nice quarter and how you're improving the overall business. I have been an investor a long time, and I for one do appreciate the way you are managing the Company and how you are improving adjusting our course, our getting down our debt. You guys are doing a great job and I want you to continue doing the job you are doing. And I have some questions in that regard.

Okay.

You mentioned a benefit from derivatives on your statement. What kind of derivatives were they?

For all of our price protected customers, which would be our ceiling and our fixed price customers, we mark to market our derivatives, and we mark to market those derivatives each and every quarter, but that's an unrealized gain or loss. Once we actually deliver that product to that customer, that gain or loss on that derivative will be reclassified, if you will, from the loss on the derivative and go to our cost of sales. We like to express if you are looking at our operations you might want to carve that out to see what is going on currently as opposed to looking at the gain or loss on the derivative.

I see. But mark to market. So I like that. That's -- that's a good procedure. another question. On your statement, you list as shares -- units outstanding about 75 million, some odd. Then you just stated that you bought back 4 million shares Did you buy that in fiscal year ending September 30th or not?

The $4 million number is basically through the end of November.

Okay.

So we did buy some back in October and November.

But, a good portion of that had million obviously were bought back in the year, and in the September 30th; correct. No?

I will give you the exact numbers if you will hold on a second.

The question -- no, no, you don't have to do that because you told me now that units outstanding now is about 72 million. But wouldn't it be inaccurate on your statement to list 75 million shares outstanding, 75 million units outstanding as of September 30th, if in fact you bought some back during that period.

I don't know where you are looking at, sir but you might be looking at a weighted average.

That's exactly what I am looking at.

The weighted average is, is the units that were outstanding each and every day during the course of the year, not what was outstanding at the end of the period.

I see.

You're welcome.

That answers my question. But now our outstanding units are about 72,100,000 you said.

Yes, sir.

I am very happy that you are thinking about the distribution, but you laid out all of the parameters and yes, I, what you have to follow with your covenants and you have to cover all of those things and make sure those people approve of what you do, but so, but I do appreciate the fact that you do look into increasing the units distribution when you can. Again just keep up the good work, guys I am very confident in what you are doing and just keep it up.

Okay. Thank you, and thank you for being an investor.

You're welcome.

And we will take our next question from Steven Ricco at Locust Wood Capital.

Hey, guys. How are you doing? Rich, I notice in this quarter or maybe it was this summer, you guys pre-bought some oil inventory. Just explain to me again how that works because I was under the impression that we buy the oil as soon as we ge the order for next year. And, I don't think you did last year, but you did this year, so I want to know if you could refresh me as to how that works? Thanks.

In the summer, we saw that there was a advantage, if you will, of buying the physical and shorting it for the month that we thought we would take delivery. I believe that was probably a gain of around $0.22, $0.23, $0.24 a gallon. And it doesn't happen every year, but this year, that opportunity existed and we have bought the product, and stuck about 20 million-gallons or so in our physical storage for the upcoming winter.

So that will help the margin as we, when will we see that margin for the December quarter or is that the March-quarter?

We are under a weighted average cost method which impacting our costing as well. So to a certain extent some of that benefit did bleed into fiscal 2009. Some of that benefit will also pass into fiscal 2010.

Okay. And then just two other questions. As you said, some of the other expenses were up about $15 million higher this year than last year. Can you just go through that? Was anything extraordinary? Or do you think that's run rate we should be using for next year?

Well, there was about $1 million extra in insurance. We hope that wouldn't be in the run rate, there was, as I keep mentioning an increase in this frozen pension plan expense, which was in the run rate. That's probably not going to go away.

How much more was that in '09 versus '08, how much of a difference?

$1.6 million

What is the increase you are budgeting for 2010, versus 2009.

Now you're having me make a forward-looking projection which I --

You did say on the call earlier you would with adding about $13 million to the pension.

That's $13 million in cash.

Okay.

Which is funding which is different than -- GAAP-- expense.

Okay. Yes, I missed it. I'm sorry.

Delivery and plant was higher by about roughly $4.5 million. That was impacted as with our service department, probably by $2.5 million due to a higher vehicle fuel costs. We have hedged a good portion of our vehicle fuel costs for fiscal 2010. So, you know hopefully we will save about $2 million or so in fiscal 2010 over fiscal 2009.

Yes, because I would say that wasn't -- that's basically diesel fuel, wasn't diesel a lot lower in '09 than it was in '08?

We hedged, as I do, as we do everything when we do plan for the future year. We hedge that just like some of our customers did in the summer of 2008.

That's explainable.

Let me add qualitative explanation to this, too. In all business as you heard me talking about delivering the level of service that we have to deliver to our customers to show them that we are the best company that they can do business with. We have no idea what the weather is going to be but I have a large staff of service technicians which are very key to our business. Because the weather might get warm for a week in December or January I don't let those people go. We have to keep them on to enable us to be able to take care of our customers heating needs. So we have to walk the talk. We can't just say we have a great service company. We have to actually do something about it and that's the thing we have been trying to drive home the here over the last four or five years. Unfortunately, sometimes that winds up costing us something, but in the long run, we feel that if we can prove ourselves to our customers we are the best company to protect their home they will stay with us and continue buying oil from us.

I agree with that. One last question I notice also you bought some weather insurance this year. I don't think you had it last year. Just, but you did have it the year before. Is that, is its more likely you will do it every year, or --

Well, we to correction you a little bit there, Steve. We have full weather insurance every year. We had it last year as well. The policy that we bought this year, it is a bit different in that the strike, instead of being 3% over the average of the last ten years, or the -- is now 7.5%. So we have kind of widened the gap, or taken a little more risk, if you will, but that's decreased the cost from around $3 million to a little over $1 million, so we should see about $2 million worth of savings for lower weather insurance expense.

Got you. Well, great guy, what a wonderful year. $86 million in EBITDA, when you guys took this thing over a couple of years ago, I think the goal was to do $43 million. So, you've certainly blown it away. Great job.

That's right.

We remind our Board of that every quarter.

Yes. Coming two times is pretty great.

It appears we have no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the conference back to Mr. Donovan for any additional closing remarks.

I want to say thanks to everybody for taking the time to join us today, and for your interest in Star Gas and we look forward to sharing our fiscal 2010 first quarter results with you in February. Thank you.

That does conclude today's conference. Thank you for your participation.