希悅爾 (SEE) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Q3 2024 Sealed Air earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please also be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Brian Sullivan, Investor Relations. Brian, please go ahead.

美好的一天，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Sealed Air 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）另請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。現在我想將會議交給今天的第一位發言人，投資者關係部門的布萊恩·沙利文 (Brian Sullivan)。布萊恩，請繼續。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. With me today are Patrick Kivits, CEO; and Dustin Semach, President and CFO. Before we begin our call, I would like to note that we have provided a slide presentation to supplement the call. Please visit sealedair.com where today's webcast and presentation can be downloaded from our Investor Relations page.

謝謝大家，大家早安。今天與我在一起的有執行長 Patrick Kivits；以及總裁兼財務長達斯汀·塞馬赫 (Dustin Semach)。在我們開始通話之前，我想指出，我們提供了幻燈片簡報來補充通話。請造訪 sealair.com，可以從我們的投資者關係頁面下載今天的網路廣播和簡報。

Statements made during this call, stating management's outlook or estimates for future periods are forward-looking statements. These statements are based solely on the information that is now available to us. We encourage you to review the information in the section entitled forward-looking statements in our earnings release and slide presentation, which applies to this call.

本次電話會議期間所發表的陳述管理階層的前景或對未來期間的估計的陳述屬於前瞻性陳述。這些陳述僅基於我們現在掌握的資訊。我們鼓勵您查看我們的收益發布和幻燈片演示中標題為前瞻性陳述的部分中的信息，該部分適用於本次電話會議。

Additionally, our future performance may differ due to a number of factors. Many of these factors are listed in our most recent annual report on Form 10-K as revised and updated on our quarterly reports on Form 10-Q and current reports on Form 8-K.

此外，我們未來的表現可能會因多種因素而有所不同。其中許多因素都列在我們最新的 10-K 表格年度報告中，並在 10-Q 表格季度報告和 8-K 表格當前報告中進行了修訂和更新。

We discuss financial measures that do not conform to US GAAP. You will find important information on our use of these measures and their reconciliation to US GAAP in our earnings release. Included in the appendix of today's presentation, you will find US GAAP financial results that correspond to the non-US GAAP measures we reference throughout the presentation.

我們討論不符合美國公認會計準則的財務措施。您將在我們的收益報告中找到有關我們使用這些措施及其與美國公認會計原則（US GAAP）的調整的重要資訊。在今天簡報的附錄中，您將發現與我們在整個簡報中引用的非美國公認會計準則衡量標準相對應的美國公認會計準則財務結果。

I will now turn the call over to Patrick and Dustin. Operator, please turn to slide 3. Patrick?

我現在將把電話轉給派崔克和達斯汀。操作員，請翻到投影片 3。派崔克？

Thank you, Brian, and thank you for joining our third quarter earnings call. Before we dive in today's earnings discussions, I would like to take a moment to update you on the progress we have made on the actions outlined during our last earnings call.

謝謝你，布萊恩，也謝謝你參加我們第三季的財報電話會議。在我們深入討論今天的收益討論之前，我想花點時間向您介紹我們在上次收益電話會議中概述的行動方面所取得的最新進展。

Over the past few months, I've been engaging with our largest customer's distribution partners to gain deeper insight into how we can meet their needs and address their packing challenges. Separately, I've connected with our investors to get their perspectives on the opportunities ahead for creating shareholder value. Through these discussions, it became clear that reorganizing into 2 verticals, Food and Protective, was a critical foundational step to enhance our customers' experience and maximize shareholder value.

在過去的幾個月裡，我一直在與我們最大客戶的分銷合作夥伴合作，以更深入地了解我們如何滿足他們的需求並解決他們的包裝挑戰。另外，我也會與我們的投資者聯繫，以了解他們對創造股東價值的未來機會的看法。透過這些討論，我們清楚地認識到，重組為食品和防護這兩個垂直行業是增強客戶體驗和最大化股東價值的關鍵基礎步驟。

Each business is distinct with unique end markets, customer base, innovation needs and manufacturing assets. We are returning to our core value proposition as a company, combining industry-leading material science, best-in-class services and differentiated automation offering to deliver world-class packaging solutions. As we refine our strategy, serving our customers and addressing their critical packaging challenges remains a guiding principle.

每項業務都具有獨特的終端市場、客戶群、創新需求和製造資產。我們正在回歸公司的核心價值主張，結合業界領先的材料科學、一流的服務和差異化的自動化產品，提供世界一流的包裝解決方案。在我們完善策略的過程中，為客戶提供服務並解決他們的關鍵包裝挑戰仍然是我們的指導原則。

Next, we need to ensure we have the right team in place to drive accelerated progress in each vertical. We focused on bringing in talent from other packaging companies with strong commercial and portfolio expertise looking for leaders that have successfully improved commercial execution and navigated sustainable portfolio shifts while consistently delivering sales and profit growth.

接下來，我們需要確保擁有合適的團隊來推動每個垂直領域的加速進度。我們專注於從其他具有強大商業和投資組合專業知識的包裝公司引進人才，尋找能夠成功提高商業執行力並引導可持續投資組合轉變，同時持續實現銷售和利潤成長的領導者。

The first critical hire was Byron Racki who now leads our Protective vertical. With over 20 years of experience in the packaging industry and strong commercial acumen, Byron brings valuable knowledge in fiber, similar to my own background. And he has successfully navigated substrate and packaging format transitions in his previous roles. He is spearheading the turnaround of our Protective business.

第一個關鍵員工是拜倫·拉基 (Byron Racki)，他現在領導我們的防護垂直領域。Byron 在包裝行業擁有 20 多年的經驗和強大的商業頭腦，他帶來了纖維方面的寶貴知識，這與我自己的背景類似。他在先前的職位中成功地應對了基材和包裝格式的轉變。他正在帶頭扭轉我們的防護業務。

In October, we brought up Steve Flannery as Head of our Food vertical. With over 25 years of experience at Avery Dennison, Steve has held leadership roles across sales, innovation, marketing and operations. He has led businesses in multiple geographies, driving market-leading innovations and fostering a team-based culture that consistently delivered robust sales and earnings growth. Steve will build on the momentum within our Food business and unlock further growth.

十月份，我們任命 Steve Flannery 擔任食品垂直領域的負責人。Steve 在艾利丹尼森擁有超過 25 年的經驗，曾在銷售、創新、行銷和營運領域擔任領導職務。他領導過多個地區的業務，推動市場領先的創新並培養以團隊為基礎的文化，從而持續實現強勁的銷售和獲利成長。史蒂夫將鞏固我們食品業務的勢頭並實現進一步的成長。

Emile Chammas continues to be our Chief Operating Officer, leading our efforts to optimize the supply chain for both Food and Protective, ensuring each prospective supply chain is stable for those end markets and expected service levels.

Emile Chammas 繼續擔任我們的首席營運官，領導我們努力優化食品和防護用品的供應鏈，確保每個潛在的供應鏈對於這些終端市場和預期的服務水平都是穩定的。

We also hired Belinda Hyde as our Chief People Officer, who will focus on enhancing the employee experience, cultivating a high-performance culture and ensuring we have the right leadership and capabilities across the organization.

我們還聘請貝琳達·海德 (Belinda Hyde) 擔任首席人力官，她將專注於增強員工體驗、培養高績效文化並確保我們在整個組織內擁有正確的領導力和能力。

Lastly, our President and Chief Financial Officer, Dustin Semach is partnering closely with me to develop a long-term plan to create shareholder value and drive a product transformation across the business.

最後，我們的總裁兼財務長達斯汀·塞馬赫 (Dustin Semach) 與我密切合作，制定一項長期計劃，以創造股東價值並推動整個企業的產品轉型。

Beyond strengthening the management team, we are also enhancing the Board. In October, the Board appointed Tony Allott as a new Director. Tony is an experienced senior executive in the packaging sector. He successfully led Silgan for over 16 years as President and Chief Executive Officer, where he created significant shareholder value. He continues to serve as Silgan's Chairman. We look forward to leveraging his expertise in leading packaging companies with diversified portfolios to help accelerate our transformation.

除了加強管理團隊之外，我們還在加強董事會。10 月，董事會任命 Tony Allott 為新董事。托尼是包裝行業經驗豐富的高階主管。他作為總裁兼執行長成功領導 Silgan 超過 16 年，創造了巨大的股東價值。他繼續擔任 Silgan 的董事長。我們期待利用他在擁有多元化產品組合的領先包裝公司的專業知識來幫助加速我們的轉型。

With our Food and Protective presence now in place, we have aligned our operating units, innovation, customer service and automation functions within each vertical. These changes will enable each vertical to swiftly adapt to market trends, leverage their global scale, enhance customer focus and execute their respective growth strategies. This represents a significant milestone in our transformation and I'm eager to build on this foundation as we continue to evolve the business towards achieving long-term sustainable growth.

隨著我們的食品和防護業務現已到位，我們在每個垂直領域內調整了我們的營運單位、創新、客戶服務和自動化功能。這些變化將使每個垂直行業能夠迅速適應市場趨勢，利用其全球規模，增強對客戶的關注並執行各自的成長策略。這是我們轉型過程中的一個重要里程碑，我渴望在此基礎上繼續發展業務，實現長期永續成長。

I would like to highlight some early successes resulting directly from the transformation actions we have initiated. With a dedicated Food commercial teams now aligned to each local end market and fully focused on execution, our Food business is delivering above market growth in each of our end markets and across most product lines. This above-market performance is driven by a mix of commercial excellence, new product launches and competitive wins.

我想強調一些直接源自於我們發起的轉型行動的早期成功。現在，我們擁有專門的食品商業團隊，與每個當地終端市場保持一致，並完全專注於執行，我們的食品業務在每個終端市場和大多數產品線中都實現了高於市場的成長。這種高於市場的業績是由商業卓越、新產品發布和競爭勝利共同推動的。

On the Protective side, while volumes in the business continues to be soft, we are gaining traction in the market with our sustainable packaging solutions. We recently announced a partnership with a large retail customer, Best Buy, to provide a suite of high recycled content and fiber-based products to help reduce the amount of virgin plastic used in their packaging. Additionally, we collaborated with them to arrange the collection of plastic waste from their distribution centers for recycling.

在防護方面，雖然業務量持續疲軟，但我們憑藉永續包裝解決方案在市場上獲得了吸引力。我們最近宣布與大型零售客戶百思買 (Best Buy) 建立合作夥伴關係，提供一套高回收含量和纖維產品，以幫助減少其包裝中使用的原生塑膠量。此外，我們與他們合作，安排從他們的配送中心收集塑膠廢棄物進行回收。

Beyond this example, we continue to position our portfolio to match our customers' sustainability needs while still addressing their most critical packaging challenges.

除了這個例子之外，我們繼續定位我們的產品組合以滿足客戶的永續發展需求，同時仍能解決他們最關鍵的包裝挑戰。

With that said, we still have much more work ahead of us. Over the next couple of months, we will focus on operationalizing each vertical. On Protective, we are continuing to work through sustainability-related portfolio gaps, improving commercial execution and infusing talent throughout the organization.

話雖如此，我們還有很多工作要做。在接下來的幾個月裡，我們將專注於每個垂直領域的營運。在保護方面，我們將繼續努力彌補與永續發展相關的產品組合差距，提高商業執行力並為整個組織注入人才。

On Food, we are focused on accelerating growth outside of our shrink bags business with case-ready and fluid and liquid solutions, successfully navigating sustainable packaging transitions and improving pricing dynamics. Until we see improvements in volume and price performance, we are accelerating our cost takeout initiatives to further rightsize each vertical and drive overall profitability.

在食品方面，我們專注於透過包裝袋和流體和液體解決方案加速收縮袋業務之外的成長，成功引導永續包裝轉型並改善定價動態。在我們看到銷售量和性價比的改善之前，我們正在加快成本削減計劃，以進一步調整每個垂直領域的規模並提高整體獲利能力。

Before I hand it over to Dustin for a business update, I would like to take a moment to discuss the impacts of Hurricane Helene. Hurricane Helene's path impacted many of our plants and sites across South Carolina and Western North Carolina, affecting over 1,500 employees. These locations experienced challenges across many aspects of their infrastructure. Our team quickly mobilized to ensure that first, our people and their families were taken care of; and second, to restore normal operations.

在將其交給達斯汀進行業務更新之前，我想花點時間討論颶風海倫的影響。颶風海倫的路徑影響了我們位於南卡羅來納州和北卡羅來納州西部的許多工廠和基地，影響了 1,500 多名員工。這些地點的基礎設施在許多方面都面臨挑戰。我們的團隊迅速動員起來，確保首先我們的員工及其家人得到照顧；二是恢復正常運作。

Despite these challenges, our team members kept us operational and ensure each other's safety, minimizing the impact on the quarter and to our customers. It was really inspiring to witness our team come together to support one another, their communities and our company.

儘管面臨這些挑戰，我們的團隊成員仍保持我們的營運並確保彼此的安全，最大限度地減少對本季和客戶的影響。見證我們的團隊齊心協力互相支持、支持他們的社區和我們的公司，真是令人鼓舞。

I'm excited to be here and look forward to updating you on our transformation and 2025 outlook in February. With that, I'll turn it over to Dustin to give an update on the business and our outlook. Dustin?

我很高興來到這裡，並期待在 2 月向您介紹我們的轉型和 2025 年展望的最新情況。接下來，我會將其轉交給達斯汀，以提供有關業務和我們的前景的最新資訊。達斯汀？

Thank you, Patrick. Let's turn to slide 4 to review Sealed Air's third quarter performance. We closed the quarter with sales of $1.35 billion and adjusted EBITDA of $276 million, each down 3% compared to last year on a reported basis. Our third quarter results reflect a continued solid performance in Food, persisting challenges in Protective and strong productivity benefits, including our cost takeout initiatives.

謝謝你，派崔克。讓我們轉向幻燈片 4 來回顧 Sealed Air 第三季的業績。本季末，我們的銷售額為 13.5 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 2.76 億美元，與去年報告的基礎上相比，均下降了 3%。我們第三季的業績反映了食品領域持續穩健的業績、保護領域持續面臨的挑戰以及強大的生產力優勢，包括我們的成本削減計劃。

Adjusted earnings per share in the quarter of $0.79 were up 3% compared to a year ago. Our adjusted tax rate was 24% compared to 25.7% in the same period last year. The decrease in tax rate year-over-year was driven by the jurisdictional mix of income and nonrecurring discrete items in the prior year. Our weighted average diluted shares outstanding in the third quarter of 2024 was 146 million.

本季調整後每股收益為 0.79 美元，比去年同期成長 3%。我們調整後的稅率為24%，去年同期為25.7%。稅率年減是由於上一年收入和非經常性離散項目的司法管轄區組合所致。2024 年第三季我們的加權平均稀釋後流通股數為 1.46 億股。

Turning to slide 5. In the third quarter, organic sales were down 2% driven by lower pricing across both the Food and Protective segments. On a year-over-year basis, relative to prior quarters, third quarter pricing was sequentially less negative as the carryover pricing actions from 2023 started to diminish.

轉到投影片 5。第三季度，由於食品和防護品領域的定價下降，有機銷售量下降了 2%。與去年同期相比，相較於前幾季，隨著 2023 年的結轉定價行為開始減少，第三季定價的負面影響逐漸減輕。

Volumes were relatively flat year-over-year for the quarter with growth in the Food segment across all regions, offset by declines in Protective in Americas and EMEA. Third quarter adjusted EBITDA of $276 million decreased $9 million or approximately 3% compared to last year with margins of 20.5%, down 10 basis points.

本季銷售量與去年同期相比相對持平，所有地區的食品領域均有所成長，但被美洲和歐洲、中東和非洲防護用品領域的下降所抵消。第三季調整後 EBITDA 為 2.76 億美元，與去年同期相比減少了 900 萬美元，約 3%，利潤率為 20.5%，下降了 10 個基點。

This performance was mainly driven by lower volumes and unfavorable net price realization in Protective, partially offset by higher volumes and favorable net price realization in Food, and lower operating costs, mainly driven by productivity benefits, including cost takeout initiatives.

這一業績主要是由保護性業務的銷量下降和不利的淨價實現推動的，部分被食品業務的銷量增加和有利的淨價實現以及運營成本降低所抵消，這主要是由生產力效益（包括成本削減計劃）推動的。

Moving to slide 6. Food net sales of $898 million for the quarter were up approximately 1%. Lower pricing primarily in Americas and EMEA was more than offset by positive volume growth in all regions, driven by strength in protein end market demand and share gains within our bags and case-ready solutions.

轉到投影片 6。該季度食品淨銷售額為 8.98 億美元，成長約 1%。主要在美洲和歐洲、中東和非洲地區的較低定價被所有地區銷量的積極增長所抵消，這主要是受到蛋白質終端市場需求強勁以及我們的袋裝和箱裝解決方案份額增長的推動。

In the third quarter, the global protein markets were net positive by approximately 1%. Continued strength in Australian cattle cycles, stronger-than-anticipated US beef production and robust pork demand more than offset declines in poultry production caused by Avian flu outbreaks affecting North American turkey flocks.

第三季度，全球蛋白質市場淨成長約1%。澳洲養牛週期的持續強勁、強於預期的美國牛肉產量和強勁的豬肉需求，足以抵消影響北美火雞群的禽流感爆發造成的家禽產量下降。

Meat increased consumer demand in the protein markets, we further drove competitive lens. Our case rate solutions experienced high single-digit growth, driven by the ongoing recovery of the roll stock business where we lost share in previous years due to resin shortages and by market share gains in the retail space with our trades and lending offerings. Protein sales, however, declined as customers continue to exercise caution in deploying capital.

肉類增加了蛋白質市場的消費者需求，我們進一步推動了競爭鏡頭。我們的裝箱率解決方案經歷了高個位數增長，這得益於卷材業務的持續復甦，前幾年我們因樹脂短缺而失去了市場份額，而我們的貿易和貸款產品在零售領域的市場佔有率增加。然而，由於客戶在部署資金方面繼續謹慎，蛋白質銷售量下降。

Food adjusted EBITDA of $206 million in the third quarter was up 6% with margins at 22.9%, up 120 basis points compared to last year. The increase in adjusted EBITDA was mainly driven by volume growth and net price realization.

第三季食品調整後 EBITDA 為 2.06 億美元，成長 6%，利潤率為 22.9%，比去年成長 120 個基點。調整後 EBITDA 的成長主要是由銷售成長和淨價實現所推動的。

Transitioning to Protective. Third quarter net sales of $447 million were down 8% as anticipated in our Q2 guidance. Industrial portfolios remained weak due to subdued manufacturing activities in the developed world. Volume in fulfillment portfolio has declined approximately 10%, driven by the slowdown in equipment automation and continued pressure within void-fill product lines.

過渡到保護性。第三季淨銷售額為 4.47 億美元，比我們第二季指引中的預期下降 8%。由於已開發國家的製造業活動低迷，工業組合仍然疲軟。由於設備自動化速度放緩以及填充產品線持續面臨壓力，履行產品組合的銷售量下降了約 10%。

In our APAC region, volumes grew approximately 1% in the quarter as the gain in box rightsizing automation offset weakness in industrial and fulfillment portfolios. In the Americas and EMEA regions, volume performance remained largely unchanged from the prior quarter. Sustainability pressures on the void-fill product lines, ongoing weakness in the industrial sector and lower automation sales continue to negatively impact our results.

在我們的亞太地區，本季銷售量成長了約 1%，因為盒子規模優化自動化的收益抵消了工業和履行產品組合的疲軟。在美洲和歐洲、中東和非洲地區，銷量表現與上一季基本保持不變。填補空白的產品線面臨的可持續性壓力、工業領域的持續疲軟以及自動化銷售的下降繼續對我們的業績產生負面影響。

Protective adjusted EBITDA of approximately $75 million in the third quarter was down 21% year-over-year with margins at 16.9%, down 260 basis points. The decrease in adjusted EBITDA was driven by lower volume and unfavorable net price relation, partially offset by productivity benefits, including cost takeout initiatives.

第三季保護性調整後 EBITDA 約 7,500 萬美元，年減 21%，利潤率為 16.9%，下降 260 個基點。調整後 EBITDA 的下降是由於銷售下降和不利的淨價關係造成的，但部分被生產力收益（包括成本削減計劃）所抵消。

On slide 7, we review our third quarter net sales by region. On an organic basis, America was down 2%, primarily due to lower pricing. Volumes were down 1%, driven by continued softness in protective portfolios, partially offset by strength in Food. EMEA declined 6% organically, driven by lower pricing across both segments and volume declined in Protective. APAC was up 3% organically as tailwinds from Australian cattle cycle and the gain in fulfillment automation more than offset lower pricing and continued weakness in our other Protective portfolios.

在投影片 7 上，我們按地區回顧了第三季的淨銷售額。在有機基礎上，美國下降了 2%，主要是由於定價較低。由於保護性投資組合持續疲軟，成交量下降了 1%，但部分被食品的強勢所抵消。歐洲、中東和非洲地區有機下降 6%，原因是兩個細分市場的定價下降以及防護產品銷售下降。由於澳洲養牛週期的推動以及履行自動化的進步，亞太地區有機成長了 3%，這足以抵消價格下降和我們其他保護性投資組合的持續疲軟。

Now let's turn to free cash flow and leverage on slide 8. With the focused efforts of our teams around the world, we delivered strong free cash flow of $323 million as of the third quarter year-to-date. This is well above the $183 million a year ago when excluding payments and deposits for resolution of certain prior year's US tax matters.

現在讓我們轉向幻燈片 8 上的自由現金流和槓桿率。在我們世界各地團隊的共同努力下，截至今年第三季度，我們實現了 3.23 億美元的強勁自由現金流。這遠高於一年前的 1.83 億美元（不包括用於解決上一年某些美國稅務問題的付款和押金）。

Our teams continue to focus on improving working capital, which as a percentage of sales has improved by 120 basis points year-over-year as we continue to improve payables and inventory velocity.

我們的團隊繼續專注於改善營運資金，隨著我們繼續提高應付帳款和庫存週轉率，營運資金佔銷售額的百分比同比提高了 120 個基點。

We maintained our focus on deleveraging the balance sheet and ended the quarter with a net leverage ratio of 3.7x. Our total liquidity position was $1.4 billion, including $386 million in cash and the remaining uncommitted and fully undrawn revolver. We are highly confident in achieving our net debt to adjusted EBITDA target of below 3.5x by the end of 2025.

我們繼續關注資產負債表去槓桿化，本季末淨槓桿比率為 3.7 倍。我們的總流動性部位為 14 億美元，其中包括 3.86 億美元現金以及剩餘的未承諾和完全未提取的左輪手槍。我們非常有信心在 2025 年底前實現淨債務調整後 EBITDA 低於 3.5 倍的目標。

Let's turn to slide 9 to review our 2024 outlook. Our third quarter results were largely in line with expectations. We are pleased with the continued momentum in our Food business. At this point, we expect our Protective volumes to remain soft in the fourth quarter due to continued portfolio challenges and overall market dynamics. As a result, in total, we expect our Q4 volumes to be slightly up year-over-year in Q4 with the strength in Food being partially offset by weakness in Protective.

讓我們轉向幻燈片 9 回顧我們的 2024 年展望。我們第三季的業績基本上符合預期。我們對食品業務的持續成長勢頭感到高興。目前，由於持續的投資組合挑戰和整體市場動態，我們預計第四季度的保護性銷售將保持疲軟。因此，總的來說，我們預計第四季度的銷量將同比略有增長，其中食品的強勢被防護品的疲軟部分抵消。

Heading into the fourth quarter, we expect sales to be approximately $1.3 billion, consistent with the midpoint of our sales guidance with year-over-year volume performance improving slightly versus the third quarter levels for both businesses. We continue to expect adjusted EBITDA to be in line with the midpoint of our guidance range, mainly driven by continued cost control actions.

進入第四季度，我們預計銷售額約為 13 億美元，與我們銷售指導的中位數一致，兩項業務的同比銷量表現較第三季度水平略有改善。我們仍然預計調整後的 EBITDA 將與我們指導範圍的中點保持一致，這主要是由持續的成本控制行動推動的。

We are raising the midpoint of adjusted EPS to be at the higher end of the previous range, driven by lower interest expense, effective tax rate and depreciation and amortization expense, reflecting improved discipline around capital deployment. We're also raising the midpoint of our free cash flow guidance to $400 million, reflecting the continued improvement in working capital.

在利息費用、有效稅率以及折舊和攤銷費用下降的推動下，我們將調整後每股收益的中點提高到先前範圍的高端，這反映出資本部署方面的紀律有所改善。我們也將自由現金流指引的中點提高至 4 億美元，反映出營運資本的持續改善。

We will be working with the new management team over the coming months to operationalize each vertical and fully form the growth strategies and transformation plans for each business. This will inform our outlook for 2025 and beyond. In the meantime, we are accelerating our cost reduction and operational excellence initiatives to drive profitability.

我們將在未來幾個月與新的管理團隊合作，實施每個垂直領域，並全面製定每個業務的成長策略和轉型計劃。這將為我們對 2025 年及以後的展望提供資訊。同時，我們正在加速降低成本和卓越營運計劃，以提高獲利能力。

Turning to slide 10. I'm very excited about the reorganization into Food and Protective verticals and their new leadership teams. As Patrick mentioned earlier, the transformational steps we have taken will position each business and Sealed Air as a whole for long-term growth and success.

轉到投影片 10。我對食品和防護垂直行業的重組及其新的領導團隊感到非常興奮。正如帕特里克之前提到的，我們採取的轉型步驟將使每個業務和 Sealed Air 作為一個整體實現長期成長和成功。

With that, Patrick and I look forward to your questions. Operator, we would like to begin the Q&A session.

派崔克和我期待您的提問。接線生，我們想開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

George Staphos, Bank of America Securities.

喬治‧斯塔福斯，美國銀行證券公司。

My question is on fourth quarter and in particular, how Protective plays out. So traditionally, again, fourth quarter tends to be, over time, a bit better versus 3Q. And nonetheless, if I'm doing my analysis correctly based on your guidance, we're looking at down sequentially both year-on-year and in the quarter. Protective is obviously weak.

我的問題是關於第四季度，特別是保護性的表現如何。因此，傳統上，隨著時間的推移，第四季往往會比第三季好一些。儘管如此，如果我根據您的指導正確進行分析，我們會看到同比和本季的連續下降。防護力明顯較弱。

I think you said, though, both segments should be up sequentially in volume, both Food and Protective. So can you talk a little bit further about what is happening, assuming it's in Protective that's driving that fourth quarter versus last year and the year ago? And in particular -- or in addition, can you talk about what kind of growth you're seeing between fiber and poly, if you will, within Protective?

不過，我想你說過，食品和防護這兩個細分市場的銷售量都應該依序上升。那麼，您能否進一步談談正在發生的事情，假設是保護性因素推動了第四季度與去年和前年的比較？特別是——或者此外，如果您願意的話，您能談談在保護領域中您看到的纖維和聚酯之間的增長嗎？

George, you have Dustin here. So a couple of comments just to clarify one as you think about kind of the guidance for the full year. When you look at both businesses, they're going to step up sequentially, right? So if you think about Food, you're looking at roughly $920 million coming off the quarter of $898 million in Q3. When you look at Protective, you're seeing we landed the quarter for Q3 $447 million, and we'll be stepping up to roughly $460 million in the fourth quarter.

喬治，達斯汀在這裡。因此，當您考慮全年指導時，我想澄清一些評論。當你觀察這兩家公司時，他們會依序崛起，對吧？因此，如果您考慮食品業，您會看到大約 9.2 億美元比第三季的 8.98 億美元下降了約 9.2 億美元。當您查看 Protective 時，您會發現我們第三季的營收為 4.47 億美元，第四季我們將增加到約 4.6 億美元。

That implies we're still down, but the commentary is around the fact that we're actually -- it's performing better in the sense that Q3, we're down roughly 8%, and it would imply Q4 is going to be down roughly 6%.

這意味著我們仍然在下滑，但評論圍繞著這樣一個事實，即我們實際上- 從第三季度的意義上說，我們的表現更好，我們下降了大約8%，這意味著第四季度將大約下降6%。

And so what's driving that? So one is you do get that sequential step up in Protective, that's being driven by seasonality, largely associated with the holiday season, which at this point in time, we still see -- we perceive to be strong, particularly in the US And so that's reflected in that particular number.

那麼是什麼推動了這一點呢？因此，其中之一是，防護措施確實得到了連續的提升，這是由季節性推動的，很大程度上與假日季節有關，在這個時候，我們仍然看到——我們認為它很強大，特別是在美國，所以這反映在該特定數字中。

The growth in fiber versus poly, just keep in mind, and this commentary I'll make it specific relative to Protective is that you're still only looking at that business about 15% in the fiber base. Fiber is performing better than poly. But at that size, it's not going to be able to compensate relative to the declines we're seeing in some of our other broader portfolios.

請記住，纖維相對於聚酯的成長，我將針對保護性進行具體的評論，即您仍然只專注於纖維基礎中約 15% 的業務。纖維的性能優於聚乙烯。但以這樣的規模，它無法彌補我們在其他一些更廣泛的投資組合中看到的下降。

But the other clarifying point I'll make is that, just keep in mind, too, that was in Protective, not all equal or relative to how each of the portfolios are behaving. If you look at our APS business, this is -- the mailers and the auto bagging, that could be fiber and/or poly, is performing -- has performed well throughout the year. If you think about inflatables, they're performing well. It's just in other areas of portfolio specifically as we've related to void-fill, et cetera that we're seeing that pressure. Hopefully, that answers your question.

但我要澄清的另一點是，也請記住，這是保護性的，並非與每個投資組合的表現都相同或相對。如果你看看我們的 APS 業務，你會發現，郵寄和自動裝袋（可能是纖維和/或聚乙烯）正在表現良好，全年表現良好。如果您考慮充氣產品，它們的性能很好。只是在投資組合的其他領域，特別是與填補空白等相關的領域，我們才看到了這種壓力。希望這能回答您的問題。

Anthony Pettinari, Citi.

安東尼佩蒂納裡，花旗銀行。

Just following up on George's question, understanding you don't have a crystal ball on the economy, is it possible to kind of update just even directionally, when you might expect to see flattish year-over-year volumes in Protective?

繼續喬治的問題，了解您對經濟沒有水晶球，當您可能預計保護性同比交易量持平時，是否有可能進行定向更新？

And then just looking at parts of that business, when does void fill -- when is it kind of shrunk to a point where declines are not maybe big enough to move the needle on overall segment volumes? And is there a point where automation comps get easier on a year-over-year basis?

然後看看該業務的某些部分，空白何時會被填補——何時會縮小到下降幅度不足以推動整體細分市場銷量的程度？自動化補償是否會逐年變得更容易？

It's Patrick. Just let me start by saying, as a reminder, I think doesn't hit on that. So the overall void fill and mailers, this is where most of the fiber transition takes place, is roughly 10% of our business in Protective, right? So that's roughly the size of it in total.

是派崔克。首先讓我說一下，作為提醒，我認為沒有擊中這一點。因此，整體空隙填充和郵寄，這是大部分纖維過渡發生的地方，大約占我們防護業務的 10%，對嗎？這就是它的總大小。

So I had the opportunity to visit the exhibition this week in Chicago. And if you look at all of the changes you're seeing in that space, a lot of people commented on -- they're surprised how many paper offerings we actually have in the market. And obviously, we will not -- we will continue to drive focus on all of our existing e-commerce offerings, if you will, as we pivot towards more fiber-based offering in that space.

所以我有機會參觀了本週在芝加哥的展覽。如果你看看在這個領域看到的所有變化，很多人都會評論——他們對我們在市場上實際擁有的紙質產品之多感到驚訝。顯然，我們不會 - 如果您願意的話，我們將繼續關注我們所有現有的電子商務產品，因為我們在該領域轉向更多基於纖維的產品。

So in the next couple of months, I referenced the Best Buy win, which is a really significant one, which actually showcases that, yes, we may have been late to the party with fiber-based offerings in this space. But our offering is a really good one. And I do think we will continue to drive further growth in that space. It's a little bit too early to tell how much that will do to the mailer space at this point.

因此，在接下來的幾個月裡，我提到了百思買的勝利，這是一個非常重要的勝利，它實際上表明，是的，我們在這個領域提供基於纖維的產品可能已經遲到了。但我們的產品非常好。我確實認為我們將繼續推動該領域的進一步成長。現在判斷這會對郵件空間產生多大影響還為時過早。

We'll come back to you on that in February. But at the grand scheme of things in these side of vehicles we're using in our portfolio shift our go-to-market changes that I talked about in order to drive to a turnaround in that space.

我們將在二月再次與您聯繫。但從總體上看，我們在投資組合中使用的車輛這些方面的宏偉計劃改變了我談到的進入市場的變化，以推動該領域的轉變。

And so -- and then just to follow on a couple of Patrick's comments. So right now, we're working with the coming months going back to the points about understanding the market. But in general, just the comments in the script around fully forming those growth strategies overall transformation plans in February and then we will have a better idea of how we see Protective playing out across 2025 and beyond.

那麼——然後是帕特里克的一些評論。所以現在，我們正在接下來的幾個月回到了解市場的要點。但總的來說，只要劇本中圍繞 2 月全面製定這些成長策略整體轉型計畫的評論，我們就能更了解 2025 年及以後的保育措施如何發揮作用。

A couple of points you made about void fill specifically in terms of benefits going into next year. Keep in mind that talked about the specific Amazon loss at the beginning of the year was in our guidance, but then void fill deteriorated further than that. You are going to have a wrap. So the comp going into next year in void fill is going to be much better than this year just because you're past that one, that large customer loss.

您就填補空白提出了幾點，特別是在明年的福利方面。請記住，我們的指導中談到了今年年初亞馬遜的具體損失，但隨後空白填充的情況進一步惡化。你將會有一個包裹。因此，明年填補空白的補償將比今年好得多，因為你已經過去了那個巨大的客戶流失。

And then automation, in general, it's a great question. We talked about this year has been challenging due to capital deployment, et cetera. A lot of that's an extension of last year. The market dynamics are getting more favorable with rate cuts, et cetera.

總的來說，自動化是一個很好的問題。我們談到，由於資本部署等原因，今年充滿挑戰。其中很多都是去年的延伸。隨著降息等因素，市場動態變得更加有利。

And what we've seen across this year is our book-to-bill ratio in both Food and Protective has largely been 1:1. And so implying that we're coming into 2025 in a much better starting point relative to our backlog and our ability to drive flattish to growth in our automation space, which will also benefit from a materials perspective.

今年我們看到食品和防護產品的訂單出貨比基本上是 1:1。因此，這意味著，相對於我們的積壓訂單和推動自動化領域扁平化成長的能力而言，我們將以一個更好的起點進入 2025 年，這也將從材料角度受益。

So give us some time, and we'll come back and we're going to put this all together over the next couple of months.

因此，請給我們一些時間，我們會回來，並在接下來的幾個月內將所有這些整合在一起。

Ghansham Panjabi, Baird.

甘沙姆‧潘嘉比 (Ghansham Panjabi)，貝爾德 (Baird)。

I just wanted to go back to the operating structure shift into 2 distinct verticals. Can you sort of put that change in context for us on a historical basis? Are you basically just going back to a structure of the companies had in place a few years back and then there was a shift? And also, what do you expect the positive changes will be coming out of this operating model shift, including the leadership changes that you've announced there?

我只是想回到營運結構轉變為兩個不同的垂直領域。您能否從歷史的角度為我們介紹一下這個變化？您是否基本上只是回到了幾年前公司的結構，然後發生了轉變？此外，您預計這種營運模式轉變會帶來哪些正面變化，包括您宣布的領導層變動？

Ghansham, great question. So let me start by saying this is -- so we were organized as a vertical organization towards the end of 2018. We changed this to a more regional focused organization, and we are going back to the model of verticals. But it's not just rearranging the deck shares. I'd like to make that very, very clear. Because this is really about a different way of going to market, a different look at our value proposition and our portfolio, right? So it's not just the rearrangement of those tax shares, as I mentioned earlier.

甘沙姆，好問題。首先我要說的是，我們在 2018 年底被組織為一個垂直組織。我們將其改為更注重區域的組織，並且我們將回到垂直模式。但這不僅僅是重新安排牌組份額。我想非常非常清楚地說明這一點。因為這實際上是一種不同的進入市場的方式，對我們的價值主張和我們的投資組合的不同看法，對嗎？因此，正如我之前提到的，這不僅僅是這些稅收份額的重新安排。

What is important here to mention is that we would like people to wake up every day to -- to be concerned about the growth in the areas that they're responsible for. And by doing this on a vertical basis, this is where people have things in common. This is where I came to drive that growth strategy.

這裡要提到的重要一點是，我們希望人們每天醒來時都關心他們所負責領域的發展。透過在垂直的基礎上這樣做，這就是人們的共同點。這就是我推動這項成長策略的地方。

What is important on the go-to-market is we -- maybe in the last couple of years, we've been really focused on new aspirational, sometimes visionary initiatives. And these were great by themselves. But at the end of the day, it's sort of defocused or it was hiding the real problem that we have, the sort of secular decline that we had in Protective.

對於進入市場來說，重要的是我們——也許在過去幾年裡，我們一直真正專注於新的有抱負的、有時是有遠見的舉措。這些本身就很棒。但歸根結底，這有點分散了注意力，或者掩蓋了我們面臨的真正問題，即我們在保護方面的長期衰退。

So we're moving away from that, and we're looking at our go-to-market because with that some of our distribution partners that I met in the last couple of months, really got the perception that we were starting to compete with them to alternative channels, right, through maybe e-commerce or maybe through online ordering tools.

因此，我們正在擺脫這一點，我們正在考慮進入市場，因為我在過去幾個月遇到的一些分銷合作夥伴確實認為我們開始與他們競爭他們轉向其他管道，對吧，可能是透過電子商務，也可能是透過線上訂購工具。

And we have reinforced the message with them that they are a very important part of our go-to-market strategy. It's not an easy model to implement. And that's why we're getting all of the feedback to say how can we really drive -- get traction with our salespeople and their salespeople where rubber meets the road. So the go-to-market is a very important one.

我們向他們強調了這樣的訊息：他們是我們進入市場策略的非常重要的一部分。這不是一個容易實施的模型。這就是為什麼我們收到所有回饋來說明我們如何真正推動——在橡膠與道路相遇的地方吸引我們的銷售人員和他們的銷售人員。所以，進入市場是非常重要的一環。

The second one, as I highlighted before, the portfolio shift from plastic-based offerings to fiber-based offerings, this will continue to be pushed very strongly in the organization and into the market. So those are the things that you will see, changed market approach and also changed portfolio predominantly in the Protective side and on the Food side, we will drive more towards further growth in areas that we're currently underpenetrated.

第二個，正如我之前強調的，產品組合從基於塑膠的產品轉向基於纖維的產品，這將繼續在組織和市場中大力推動。因此，這些就是您將看到的事情，改變了市場方法，也改變了主要在保護方面和食品方面的投資組合，我們將在我們目前滲透不足的領域推動更多的進一步成長。

Yes. And just to complement a couple of comments Patrick made is -- Ghansham, is specifically to shifts innovation, customer service, we talked about getting closer to the customer proximity. So innovation in itself has been reorganized and then specifically customer service. And you go back to improving that 3 -- stool on the service side. Those are 2 fundamental shifts.

是的。為了補充帕特里克所做的一些評論——Ghansham，專門針對創新、客戶服務的轉變，我們談到如何更貼近客戶。因此，創新本身已經被重組，特別是客戶服務。然後你回去改進服務方面的第 3 個凳子。這是兩個根本性的轉變。

And the comment you made around when they expect the kind of improvements associated with it, you already see it today within Food because keep in mind, the operating model shift we made earlier in the year. You've seen the Food business perform. We're talking about share gains, not just in one region or one product line, but across all regions and most product lines.

當他們期望與之相關的改進時，你所發表的評論，你今天已經在食品中看到了，因為請記住，我們在今年早些時候做出的運營模式轉變。您已經看到了食品業務的表現。我們談論的是份額成長，不僅僅是在一個地區或一條產品線，而是在所有地區和大多數產品線。

So Food's already benefiting from that focus and Protective and the comments that Patrick's alluded to around the go-to-market change as well as the portfolio shift. There's more of a focus there in Protective and that's where we'll see in between now and kind of February, we're going to continue to lay out transformation plan there and give you more clarity in February.

因此，食品已經從這種關注和保護性以及帕特里克圍繞進入市場的變化以及投資組合轉變所提到的評論中受益。在保護方面有更多的關注點，這就是我們從現在到二月份之間會看到的地方，我們將繼續在那裡制定轉型計劃，並在二月份為您提供更清晰的資訊。

Stefan Diaz, Morgan Stanley.

斯特凡·迪亞茲，摩根士丹利。

So you mentioned in the prepared remarks stepping up the CTO2 Grow initiative. I believe the previous cost takeout number was $140 million to $160 million. Do you have an update for that number? And then maybe if you could also highlight some of the additional actions you're taking as far as cost takeout versus before?

因此，您在準備好的發言中提到了加強 CTO2 Grow 計劃。我相信之前的成本支出數字是1.4億至1.6億美元。您有該號碼的更新嗎？然後，也許您還可以強調一下您在成本削減方面與以前相比正在採取的一些額外行動？

Okay. This is Dustin speaking. So if you go back to the original intent of the program, we talked about $140 million to $160 million of cost takeout savings as we announced this back in the middle of -- middle to later part of 2023. We're on track right now for the $90 million, and we talked about it across a number of different buckets, right? This is related to network optimization, across our supply chain, it's related to G&A, back-office as well as touching other areas of go-to-market that we're largely noncustomer-facing.

好的。我是達斯汀。因此，如果你回到該計劃的初衷，當我們在 2023 年中後期宣布這一消息時，我們談到了 1.4 億至 1.6 億美元的成本節省。我們現在正朝著 9000 萬美元的目標邁進，我們在許多不同的方面都討論過這個問題，對嗎？這與整個供應鏈的網路優化有關，與一般行政管理、後台以及涉及我們基本上不面向客戶的其他市場進入領域有關。

And so we continue to execute on that. And what we talked about originally was next year, but it was going to be roughly $50 million. And if you look how the volume drop we've had in Protective in Q3 and Q4, we're now reevaluating that and looking to step that up as we go into next year. We haven't landed on exactly what that will be, and that work will complete over the next 2 to 3 months, will be factored into kind of our outlook for 2025. But that's the intention.

所以我們繼續執行這一點。我們最初談論的是明年，但大約是 5000 萬美元。如果你看看我們在第三季和第四季的保護性銷售下降情況，我們現在正在重新評估這一點，並希望在進入明年時加大力度。我們還沒有確定具體內容，這項工作將在未來 2 到 3 個月內完成，並將納入我們對 2025 年的展望中。但這就是目的。

So we, at this point, have at least another $50 million already baked in, in terms of actions that we're taking that will continue to roll through next year. And then we have another kind of X amount that we're working through to determine that. And our commitment is that we're going to be driving profitability, right? That's the main message I want to leave you with on that point.

因此，就我們正在採取的行動而言，目前我們已經投入了至少 5000 萬美元，這些行動將在明年繼續進行。然後我們正在研究另一種 X 數量來確定這一點。我們的承諾是我們將提高盈利能力，對吧？這就是我想向你們傳達的主要訊息。

And so in terms of areas that we're focused on, it is largely in those same buckets that we talked about. But I would say there's a more primary focus on Protective than relative to Food due to the performance of each of those individual businesses. And that's one of the great benefits of moving to the models that we're going to is being able to better really understand those cost structures because they're now aligned to each individual vertical.

因此，就我們關注的領域而言，它主要屬於我們討論過的那些領域。但我想說，由於各企業的業績，人們更主要關注的是防護品而不是食品。轉向我們將要採用的模型的巨大好處之一是能夠更好地真正理解這些成本結構，因為它們現在與每個單獨的垂直領域保持一致。

Josh Spector, UBS.

喬許‧斯佩克特，瑞銀集團。

I wanted to follow up again on some of the comments around the 2 segments and the different Presidents. So you talked a lot about the operational side, which is good to see. I guess the question is really strategically, does this change anything? So you're investing more, I guess, in Protective to improve it. Does that change your willingness to look at any divestment opportunities or carve-outs within there? So how are you thinking about that today versus maybe 3, 6 months ago?

我想再次跟進有關兩個部分和不同主席的一些評論。所以你談了很多關於營運方面的內容，這是很高興看到的。我想這個問題確實是策略性的，這會改變什麼嗎？所以我想你會在防護方面投入更多資金來改善它。這是否會改變您考慮其中任何撤資機會或剝離的意願？那麼，與 3、6 個月前相比，您今天對此有何看法？

I think it's a very good question. So at the moment, we're really laser focused on operationalizing all of the changes that we're making. We do believe that feedback from our distribution partners that we are on the right path in terms of the go-to-market. We do -- we are confident that the fiber offering is going into the right direction.

我認為這是一個非常好的問題。因此，目前，我們真正專注於實施我們正在做出的所有變革。我們確實相信，分銷合作夥伴的反饋表明我們在進入市場方面走在正確的道路上。我們確實如此，我們相信光纖產品正在朝著正確的方向發展。

The accountability, clear line of sight, those are the issues that we've been trying to address with this verticalization. So I do think we have a lot of opportunities right now to improve our business as we go forward. We will always look into opportunities for footprint rationalization or areas where we think we're maybe not that successful in future or the markets aren't growing that much. But in the grand scheme of things, I think we are very comfortable where we are today with all of the changes we're making, and we are going to drive change in those organizations.

問責制、清晰的視線，這些都是我們一直試圖透過垂直化解決的問題。因此，我確實認為，隨著我們的發展，我們現在有很多機會來改善我們的業務。我們將始終尋找足跡合理化的機會或我們認為未來可能不會那麼成功或市場成長幅度不大的領域。但從長遠來看，我認為我們對今天所做的所有變革感到非常滿意，並且我們將推動這些組織的變革。

Mike Roxland, Truist Securities.

麥克‧羅克克蘭 (Mike Roxland)，Truist 證券公司。

Just quickly, I wanted to follow up on the comments on that shifted to 2 verticals. Obviously, you established these distinct operating units. But how do you now fully separate each business such that if you were to parse out Protective, there would be -- the synergies would be minimized?

很快，我想跟進有關轉向 2 個垂直領域的評論。顯然，你們建立了這些不同的營運單位。但是，現在如何完全分離每個業務，以便在解析保護性業務時，協同效應將被最小化？

And then just quickly on Food. I think you've been guiding -- Food margin is about 21%. In 3Q, you round up around 22.9%. What exactly occurred during the quarter that allowed you to be? And how should we think about that margin progression in 4Q?

然後快速吃食物。我認為您一直在指導——食品利潤率約為 21%。第三季度，四捨五入約為 22.9%。在這個季度到底發生了什麼事情讓你能夠做到這一點？我們該如何看待第四季的利潤率進展？

Mike, great question. I'll start with the verticals, and I'll let Dustin answer the Food question on the margin. So the reason for changing or putting our verticals back in place and changing the operating model there is really about the organizational effectiveness.

麥克，好問題。我將從垂直方向開始，然後讓達斯汀回答邊緣的食物問題。因此，改變或恢復我們的垂直產業以及改變營運模式的原因實際上是為了提高組織效率。

So I mentioned earlier before -- earlier that you want people to wake up every day to just focus on the areas they're responsible for. We create a clear line of sight. We will create clear accountabilities with P&L structure with subject matter experts in order not to lose traction in the market because I think that's where we have been in the last couple of years.

所以我之前提到過，你希望人們每天醒來只專注在他們負責的領域。我們創造清晰的視線。我們將與主題專家一起制定具有損益結構的明確職責，以免失去市場吸引力，因為我認為這就是我們過去幾年的情況。

The benefit of doing that is having innovation in our verticals means that now when rubber meets the road, you have one individual that's responsible for that, and we no longer have the situation where we start finger-pointing.

這樣做的好處是在我們的垂直領域進行創新，這意味著現在當橡膠遇到道路時，你會有一個人負責，我們不再會出現相互指責的情況。

And we have innovations that actually are based on customer pool rather than trying to develop something that we think a customer need without really asking. So that is the basic premise we're doing this. Obviously, that gives us optionality in the future, but the real focus has been on driving that verticalization to get a stronger operational effectiveness. Dustin?

我們的創新實際上是基於客戶群，而不是在沒有真正詢問的情況下嘗試開發我們認為客戶需要的東西。這就是我們這樣做的基本前提。顯然，這給了我們未來的選擇，但真正的重點是推動垂直化以獲得更強的營運效率。達斯汀？

And so just to complement that comment, going back to the prior statement that I made as well. Obviously, going through the reorganization, the way that we are, it is giving us a chance to really look at that cost structure and really take a step back and ask ourselves what is really needed to support our growth expectations for each business and take a look at it in a very different way.

為了補充這一評論，回到我之前所做的聲明。顯然，透過重組，我們現在的方式，讓我們有機會真正審視成本結構，真正退後一步，問自己真正需要什麼來支持我們對每項業務的成長預期，並採取行動以一種非常不同的方式看待它。

And so I think of it less from a dis-synergy standpoint, how do we maximize the value of each individual business and get them back to driving towards long-term sustainable growth, which I'm highly confident that we have the opportunity in both businesses as demonstrated today based on how Food is already operating.

因此，我從不協同的角度來考慮，我們如何最大化每個業務的價值並讓他們重新推動長期可持續增長，我非常有信心我們在這兩個方面都有機會今天所展示的業務是基於食品已經運作的方式。

And going back to Food margin, we benefited this year from the volume growth, right? We talked about it. We are driving volume growth across all the regions, across the businesses themselves, different product lines. You're creating an opportunity for higher utilization across our network. And so you're seeing that come through in the margin pull-through. We expect that business to operate still in the low 20s, right, where -- you could have a point of difference every quarter or 2 depending on how you're operating.

回到食品利潤率，我們今年從銷售成長中受益，對嗎？我們討論過。我們正在推動所有地區、業務本身、不同產品線的銷售成長。您正在為我們的網路更高的利用率創造機會。所以你會看到這一點在利潤拉動中得到體現。我們預計該業務的營運仍將在 20 多歲左右，對吧，每個季度或每兩個季度可能會有一個點的差異，具體取決於您的營運方式。

And so -- but right now, any expectation above and beyond that, we would think about in terms of reinvestment economics going forward in terms of how we can continue to unlock further growth in the areas that Patrick outlined earlier.

所以，但現在，任何超越這一目標的期望，我們都會從再投資經濟學的角度來思考，也就是我們如何能夠繼續在派崔克之前概述的領域釋放進一步的成長。

Chris Parkinson, Wolfe Research.

克里斯帕金森，沃爾夫研究中心。

It's Andrew on for Chris. I just want to delve into Food volume trends, both in this quarter and looking into the fourth quarter in '25. Would you mind walking through protein substrate and sort of the success of new products and how those 2 have interplayed and what you expect going forward?

由安德魯代替克里斯。我只想深入研究本季和 25 年第四季的食品量趨勢。您介意介紹一下蛋白質底物和新產品的成功以及這兩者如何相互作用以及您對未來的期望嗎？

Okay. I'll make a couple of comments, right? Just to kind of reorient again, you're looking at Food overall. And in Q3, we talked about driving kind of low single-digit growth, 2.4% from a volume perspective. It's really 4% underlying strength. We talked about in Q2, that pull forward of some of the tomato season that would have pulled forward back into Q2. So again, Q3, very strong. We're going to expect a similar performance in Q4.

好的。我會發表一些評論，對嗎？只是為了再次重新定位，你正在整體考慮食物。在第三季度，我們討論了推動低個位數成長，從銷售角度來看為 2.4%。這確實是4%的基礎強度。我們在第二季度談到了將番茄季節的一些時間提前，而這些季節本來可以提前到第二季。再說一次，第三季非常強勁。我們預計第四季會有類似的表現。

One of the big changes this year from a market perspective that we talked about is that the US beef cycle has actually been much more -- better than we'd originally anticipated coming into the year. But just keep in mind that you're going to see that become more challenging in Q4 and going into 2025. I would say that's been a market -- it's been a market headwind this year, but a slight one where we thought it was going to be higher. And going into next year is going to be a little bit heavier relative to impacting our volume, particularly in bags.

從我們談到的市場角度來看，今年的重大變化之一是，美國牛肉週期實際上比我們最初預期的今年要好得多。但請記住，從第四季度到 2025 年，您會發現這將變得更具挑戰性。我想說，這是一個市場——今年是市場的逆風，但我們認為市場會走高，但阻力很小。進入明年，相對於對我們銷售的影響，特別是袋子方面的影響將會更大一些。

But outside of that, I would tell you that our Latin American beef cycles and our competitive gain share there is just pulling through, EMEA is performing very well. And we talked about that in Q1 and Q2 as well, and you're seeing a lot of competitive wins in that business continue to ramp up with the volume being very strong in Q3 as well as Q4.

但除此之外，我想告訴您，我們的拉丁美洲牛肉週期和我們的競爭收益份額剛剛渡過難關，歐洲、中東和非洲地區的表現非常出色。我們在第一季和第二季也談到了這一點，您會看到該業務中的許多競爭勝利繼續增加，第三季和第四季的銷量非常強勁。

And so our expectation is those competitive wins as well as the -- just the progress we're making across a number of our different product lines outside of just our core bags business, we'll -- that momentum will continue into Q4, but also into 2025, albeit the market dynamics in terms of proteins, we're still evaluating that, recognizing that US beef stock a lot better this year, you're delaying some of the impact. You're pushing it further into 2025, and we're still working through that, and we'll have a better understanding of what that means to the overall business and our outlook in February.

因此，我們的期望是這些競爭性勝利以及——除了我們的核心箱包業務之外，我們在許多不同產品線中取得的進展，我們將——這種勢頭將持續到第四季度，但同樣到2025 年，儘管蛋白質方面的市場動態，我們仍在評估，認識到今年美國牛肉庫存要好得多，所以您推遲了一些影響。你們將其進一步推遲到 2025 年，我們仍在努力解決這個問題，我們將在 2 月更好地了解這對整體業務和我們的前景意味著什麼。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Arun Viswanathan, RBC Capital Markets.

阿倫‧維斯瓦納坦 (Arun Viswanathan)，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場部。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Edlain Rodriguez, Mizuho.

艾德蘭·羅德里格斯，瑞穗。

Just a quick one for me, and that's about the guidance. I mean Patrick, of course, you're new to the firm. So it's been like -- this is like the third quarter in a row where you have exceeded your expectation. So it's very likely that the guide for 4Q is as conservative as the prior quarters.

對我來說只是一個快速的介紹，這就是指導。我的意思是派崔克，當然，你是公司的新人。所以這就像——這就像連續第三個季度超出了你的預期。因此，第四季度的指導很可能與前幾季一樣保守。

But question for me is like where is the uncertainty coming from? Like what's the driving results higher than you initially expected? Is it a question of volume visibility? Is it cost? Like what's making 2 quarters different from what you expected just a couple of months before that?

但對我來說，問題是不確定性從何而來？例如駕駛結果比您最初預期的要高多少？這是體積可見性的問題嗎？是成本嗎？是什麼讓兩個季度與您幾個月前的預期有所不同？

Yes. Great question. I think as we went into Q3, this is really about the volume development in Protective. I think we anticipated a different volume situation in the Protective business. We continue to see strength in our Food business, which I think is really strong despite some of the headwinds we had in certain cattle cycle in certain regions, and we're very well hedged there. But at the end of the day, that's the main uncertainty in terms of our guidance going forward.

是的。很好的問題。我認為，當我們進入第三季時，這實際上與保護方面的銷售發展有關。我認為我們預計防護業務的銷售情況會有所不同。我們繼續看到我們的食品業務的實力，我認為儘管我們在某些​​地區的某些養牛週期中遇到了一些阻力，但我們的食品業務確實很強勁，而且我們在那裡進行了很好的對沖。但歸根結底，這是我們未來指導的主要不確定性。

Yes. So a couple of comments I'll complement there. One is, if you look at Q3 relative to your point around meeting or being expectations, on the top line, it was relatively tight, I would say, relative to our expectations. So both businesses came in Protective in the way that we thought as well as Food. On the bottom line, there are some benefits, and that's largely coming from leverage in terms of how we're optimizing within our plants and some of the cost takeout and some of the timing of that.

是的。我將補充一些評論。一是，如果你看看第三季相對於你關於達到或達到預期的觀點，我想說，相對於我們的預期，最重要的是，它相對緊張。因此，這兩項業務都按照我們的想法進入了防護業務以及食品業務。從根本上來說，有一些好處，這主要來自於我們如何在工廠內進行最佳化以及一些成本支出和一些時間安排的槓桿作用。

But again, I would say if you look at Q3, it's more modest relative to Q2 and Q1. And so as we go into Q4, I would tell you that if you go back to the beginning of the year and say what's played out throughout the year, our Food business has gotten better and better and better, right? And our Protective business has actually gotten worse from our original expectation.

但我想說的是，如果你看看第三季度，它相對於第二季度和第一季更為溫和。因此，當我們進入第四季度時，我會告訴你，如果你回到年初並說出全年的情況，我們的食品業務變得越來越好，對吧？我們的防護業務實際上比我們最初的預期變得更糟。

If you go back to the beginning in Q1, we would have, at that point, thought more of an L-shape recovery, but some inflection towards the end of the year, particularly in Q4. And our outlook has changed, right? That's been the downside. So the strength in our Food business has been continuously offset by the weakness in our Protective business due to the portfolio challenges we've had and that we're working through. And so that to me is what's set up our view of guidance.

如果你回到第一季之初，我們當時會更多地考慮 L 型復甦，但到年底會出現一些拐點，特別是在第四季度。我們的看法已經改變了，對吧？這就是缺點。因此，由於我們面臨和正在解決的投資組合挑戰，我們食品業務的優勢不斷被防護業務的弱點所抵消。對我來說，這就是我們的指導觀的建立。

When we look at Q4, we think that that's what we're guiding towards is what we expect to actually happen. And so that's -- it's reflective of that. So it's not intended to be conservatism per se.

當我們看第四季時，我們認為這就是我們所引導的目標，也是我們期望實際發生的事情。這就是——它反映了這一點。因此，它本身並不是保守主義。

Gabe Hajde, Wells Fargo Securities.

加布‧哈吉德 (Gabe Hajde)，富國銀行證券公司。

I'm going to try one more time. You kind of gave us a top line number, Dustin, for Food and Protective. And you talked about maybe some sequential strengthening actually or seasonally speaking, for Protective. I know price/cost was a little bit worse in Protective versus Food, in fact, it was positive. So is there anything discrete in the fourth quarter for some of these hurricane or weather impacts that you alluded to that you haven't quantified for us?

我要再嘗試一次。你給了我們一個頂線號碼，達斯汀，負責食物和防護。您談到實際上或季節性地可能會進行一些順序強化，以進行保護。我知道防護用品與食品的價格/成本稍差一些，事實上，這是正面的。那麼，在第四季度，您提到的一些颶風或天氣影響是否存在一些尚未為我們量化的離散因素？

And then the variability on cash flow is still $100 million, which is obviously wider than the EBITDA range. I appreciate -- I think I know it's probably working capital related. But once you get to your desired level, I don't know when exactly that will be, maybe give us some insight into that, but then we should be stable and then it will move with growth in the company? Or is there something that could unwind maybe next year or so we got to be mindful of that on the working capital side?

那麼現金流的波動性仍然是 1 億美元，這顯然比 EBITDA 範圍要寬。我很欣賞——我想我知道這可能與營運資金有關。但是一旦你達到你想要的水平，我不知道具體是什麼時候，也許能讓我們對此有所了解，但然後我們應該穩定，然後它會隨著公司的成長而變化？或者是否有一些事情可能會在明年結束，所以我們必須在營運資金方面注意這一點？

Yes. And so Dave, I appreciate all those -- all that commentary. So let me start with discrete events related to Q4. We don't see at this point in time. Anything that we believe that would have happened as far as Hurricane Helene has been factored into the guidance you have. There's no material discrete impact to our business. And that's really a testament. Patrick made the remarks earlier in the script, that's really a testament to our teams and their ability to drive everything that they did. So we're really pleased with that.

是的。所以戴夫，我感謝所有這些——所有這些評論。讓我從與第四季相關的離散事件開始。我們目前還看不到。就颶風海倫而言，我們認為會發生的任何事情都已納入您的指導中。這對我們的業務沒有重大的離散影響。這確實是一個證明。派崔克在劇本的前面說過這句話，這確實證明了我們的團隊以及他們推動所做的一切的能力。所以我們對此非常滿意。

And maybe to build on that, Dustin. So if you remember, the hurricane just happened 2 business days before the end of the quarter, right? So I think we were able to manage the quarter pretty well. So some of the costs were just a carry over between these 2 quarters, but at the end of the day, it wasn't material.

或許可以以此為基礎，達斯汀。所以，如果您還記得的話，颶風剛剛發生在季度末前 2 個工作日，對嗎？所以我認為我們能夠很好地管理這個季度。因此，一些成本只是這兩個季度之間的結轉，但最終，這並不重要。

And so the other comment I would make kind of shifting from there relative to the working capital and as well as the free cash flow comment. Look, we're really pleased what we've been able to drive this year. And what we're committed to and what we've always been committed to is driving a high conversion from adjusted net income into free cash flow, right, which we expect that to be the same going into next year.

因此，我要發表的另一條評論是相對於營運資本以及自由現金流評論而言的。看，我們對今年的表現感到非常高興。我們致力於並一直致力於推動調整後淨利潤向自由現金流的高轉化，對吧，我們預計明年也將如此。

The onetime benefit I gave that you would have this year is the restoration of our compensation pools, right? As a reminder, last year, right, we talked about the fact that we're benefiting from the -- in fact, we're going to be very low, think of it as executive compensation, and that's played a factor this year.

今年我給你們的一次性好處就是恢復我們的補償池，對嗎？提醒一下，去年，我們談到了這樣一個事實，即我們正在受益於——事實上，我們的薪酬將非常低，將其視為高管薪酬，這是今年的一個因素。

And it's -- and on a positive note, if you actually look at the 1,100 adjusted EBITDA at the midpoint, that's also factoring in a $30 million step-up in our compensation expense due to the restoration of those compensation pools, which you would have remembered during our original guidance and outlook for 2024.

積極的一面是，如果你實際查看 1,100 調整後 EBITDA 的中點，這也考慮到了由於恢復這些補償池而導致的 3000 萬美元的補償費用增加，你將擁有我們在最初的2024 年指導和展望中記住了這一點。

So we do expect working capital. I would say it's largely normalized now. There's still a little bit of opportunity probably in inventory going into next year. But we don't see -- because next year, we'll factor in the fact that we'll be paying out bonuses more in line with historical expectations, at least at this point in time.

所以我們確實期望營運資金。我想說現在基本上已經正常化了。明年的庫存可能仍然存在一些機會。但我們看不到——因為明年，我們將考慮這樣一個事實，即我們將更符合歷史預期地支付獎金，至少在目前是如此。

And so I think that this -- we still expect a very strong year for next year free cash flow. It will be somewhat determined, obviously, based on our profit outlook once we get to February, and we still expect very high conversion. And we wouldn't expect our ability to de-lever and hit the commitments that we've outlined, and we still feel it's fully intact and within our control at this point.

所以我認為，我們仍然預計明年的自由現金流將會非常強勁。顯然，一旦到了二月份，這將根據我們的利潤前景來確定，並且我們仍然期望非常高的轉換率。我們並不指望我們有能力去槓桿化並兌現我們所概述的承諾，而且我們仍然認為目前它完全完好無損並且在我們的控制範圍內。

Philip Ng, Jefferies.

菲利普‧吳，杰弗里斯。

Congrats on the strong quarter. I guess from a high level, I would say demand for Food has been pretty solid. So my question is really, is there a scope for positive price/mix when we look out to 2025? Have you started having those conversations?

恭喜季度表現強勁。我想從高水準來看，我會說對食品的需求相當穩定。所以我的問題是，當我們展望 2025 年時，價格/組合是否有正面的空間？你開始進行這些對話了嗎？

Separately, pricing in Protective seems to be fairly stable. Any color on the competitive landscape, your ability to kind of maintain price? So ultimately, Dustin, I'm trying to get at is there opportunity for price/cost actually -- I'm sorry, net price to flip positive in 2025 in either of your 2 businesses?

另外，Protective 的定價似乎相當穩定。競爭格局有什麼色彩嗎？所以最終，達斯汀，我想了解實際上價格/成本是否有機會 - 對不起，您的 2 項業務中的任何一項的淨價在 2025 年會轉為正數嗎？

Yes. So I really appreciate the question as it relates to kind of price/cost dynamics for each individual business. And you're correct. And what you said, obviously, if you look at Q4, what's implied in our guide beyond the overall kind of low single-digit growth that we have for volumes, which is kind of commensurate with the prior 3 quarters, you're also seeing price, the spread come down almost in was flattish, right, which is obviously a very positive indication in terms of going into next year.

是的。所以我真的很欣賞這個問題，因為它與每個企業的價格/成本動態有關。你是對的。顯然，如果你看看第四季度，除了我們的銷量整體低個位數增長（與前三個季度相當）之外，我們的指南中還暗示了什麼，你還會看到價格方面，價差幾乎持平，對吧，這對於進入明年來說顯然是一個非常積極的跡象。

There are still some pressures within the Food business related to some of the largest industrial processors, particularly in their businesses going into next year. But we still -- we see pricing dynamics more favorable going into next year than where we sit today.

與一些最大的工業加工商相關的食品業務仍然面臨一些壓力，特別是在進入明年的業務中。但我們仍然認為明年的定價動態比今天更有利。

Now I'll caveat that and say that, obviously, input costs, resin costs are obviously a big factor into that. They've been very stable this year, and we talked about the positivity around reducing a lot of volatility. And so we do think the wrap-around effect going next year is going to be a better pricing cost dynamic than we had in 2024. To what extent for Food, we're still working through. And that will be kind of thought through kind of over the next 3 to 4 months.

現在我要警告一下，顯然，投入成本、樹脂成本顯然是其中的重要因素。今年它們非常穩定，我們討論了減少大量波動的動機。因此，我們確實認為明年的環繞效應將是比 2024 年更好的定價成本動態。對於食品的程度，我們仍在努力解決。在接下來的 3 到 4 個月內，我們將對此進行深入思考。

On Protective, there are still pricing price, right? It's definitely narrowed because a lot of that comes down in terms of the price reductions due to a number of things kind of working through the supply chain, but really the bring down on resin happened across '23 into '24. So that wrap-around effect. You still feel it to some degree, but it's narrowed again similar to Food, but not quite to the same degree. So you'll see about a 1% reduction in price in Q4, which will obviously have a tail going into next year.

防護方面，還是有定價的吧？它肯定會縮小，因為其中很大一部分是由於供應鏈中的一些事情而導致價格下降，但實際上樹脂的下降發生在 23 年到 24 年期間。從而達到環繞效果。你仍然在某種程度上感覺到它，但它再次縮小，類似於食物，但程度不完全相同。因此，您會看到第四季價格大約下降 1%，這顯然會影響到明年。

A lot of that is coming from competitive dynamics, particularly in the areas that we talked about where you have deterioration in volumes. Like poly, void fill. So it's not just that there's a volume loss there, but because there's less volume to grab right now, you're seeing a lot more pricing pressures across the competitive landscape in that particular area.

其中很大一部分來自競爭動態，特別是在我們談到的銷售惡化的領域。像聚，空隙填充。因此，這不僅僅是銷售損失，而且因為現在可供獲取的銷售減少，你會看到該特定領域的競爭格局面臨更大的定價壓力。

But again, in a similar vein, we seem to be more positive going into next year than we experienced in 2024. To what extent, and does that mean it will be positive overall, from an NPR relative to the -- if you -- just as a reminder, we're down -- it's improved throughout the year, but we're down about negative $60 million this year. So TBD, but we do expect it to be better. It's a great question.

但同樣，我們對明年的看法似乎比 2024 年更積極。在多大程度上，這是否意味著總體上將是積極的，從 NPR 相對於 - 如果你 - 只是提醒一下，我們在下降 - 它全年都有所改善，但我們在負面方面有所下降今年6000萬美元。所以待定，但我們確實希望它會更好。這是一個很好的問題。

Matt Roberts, Raymond James.

馬特羅伯茨，雷蒙德詹姆斯。

I know we spent a lot of time talking about fiber, but maybe I'll try to get in one more here. Patrick, you did say you spoke to many distributors and customers over the last couple of days. So maybe help me understand specifically where your fiber product lacks versus peers?

我知道我們花了很多時間討論纖維，但也許我會嘗試在這裡再談一談。派翠克，您確實說過過去幾天您與許多經銷商和客戶進行了交談。那麼，或許可以幫助我具體了解你們的纖維產品與同業相比有何不足？

I mean what products or changes are there in the pipeline that we could expect to see? How long would it take to commercialize any of those new products to stop the erosion you're seeing in mailer and void-fill areas? And what type of investment would it require to ramp those up?

我的意思是我們可以期待看到哪些產品或變化？將這些新產品商業化需要多長時間才能阻止您在郵寄和空隙填充區域看到的侵蝕？需要什麼類型的投資來增加這些？

Thank you, Matt. So start with the mailer side. So as you're replacing plastic mailers with the bubble wrap on the inside, the traditional JP mailers, if you will, the perception of the protection of those products is actually very different. As you -- so people are actually compromising from moving from plastic to fiber-based products and the protective nature of that fiber-based mailer is actually very important.

謝謝你，馬特。所以從郵件發送端開始。因此，當您用內部氣泡包裝紙替換塑膠郵寄袋時，如果您願意的話，傳統的日本郵寄袋，對這些產品的保護的看法實際上是非常不同的。正如您一樣，人們實際上正在從塑膠產品轉向基於纖維的產品，而基於纖維的郵件的保護性實際上非常重要。

So one of the things I think we've been lacking a little bit as I came into the organization and looked at some of our competitive offerings, it's like even though in theory, our product is as protective as the alternative offering in the market, it wasn't perceived that way. So we're working on the perception and actually the protection so that we can get a better mailer out in the market. And there's some prototypes that we're actually launching at the moment and that are in a very good condition and actually can help us drive sales in that space.

因此，當我進入該組織並查看我們的一些競爭產品時，我認為我們一直缺乏一點，即使從理論上講，我們的產品與市場上的替代產品一樣具有保護性，但人們並不這麼認為。因此，我們正在研究認知和實際保護，以便我們能夠在市場上推出更好的郵寄器。我們目前實際上正在推出一些原型，它們的狀況非常好，實際上可以幫助我們推動該領域的銷售。

So as far as the void filler goes, I think in general terms, our focus has been on the mailers because the void is such -- under pressure quite a bit and people are trying to design out the void because it's a challenge per se. Now there is still very solid volume growth in the space, but it's really about getting the sweet spot in terms of all of the different applications you have in terms of what kind of protection do you need. So again, the protection there is critically important, but it is more going hand-in-hand with automation.

因此，就空隙填充物而言，我認為一般而言，我們的重點一直是郵寄者，因為空隙是這樣的——在很大的壓力下，人們試圖設計出空隙，因為這本身就是一個挑戰。現在，該領域的銷售成長仍然非常強勁，但實際上是為了在您需要什麼樣的保護方面獲得您擁有的所有不同應用程式的最佳位置。同樣，那裡的保護至關重要，但它更與自動化齊頭並進。

So if you go to the timing of things, and I'll get to your question around what kind of investment does it require. So the timing of the paper mills will go faster because we have a lot of offerings already available, and we have fine-tuned -- sharpened the pencil in that offering quite substantially. So that is faster.

因此，如果你談到事情的時間安排，我會回答你關於它需要什麼樣的投資的問題。因此，造紙廠的時間安排會更快，因為我​​們已經有很多產品可供選擇，而且我們已經對這些產品進行了微調——大幅削尖了該產品中的鉛筆。所以這樣更快。

When it comes to the capital investment, I think we're in a good position on the capital investment. It's not as capital intense, as for instance, on our Food business. So it's easier to implement. And then as far as the void filling goes, this is more an interplay between automation and the paper that you're using. So that is something that will be a little bit longer in terms of our portfolio change being effective.

當談到資本投資時，我認為我們在資本投資方面處於有利地位。它不像我們的食品業務那樣資本密集。所以比較容易實施。然後就空隙填充而言，這更多的是自動化和您正在使用的紙張之間的相互作用。因此，就我們的投資組合變化的有效性而言，這將需要更長的時間。

George Staphos, Bank of America Securities.

喬治‧斯塔福斯，美國銀行證券公司。

It's on Protective as well. So one, what are your views on Instapak and how important that is in the portfolio on a going-forward basis? Relatedly, in terms of Protective, does the affinity for sustainability to focus on fiber versus poly vary depending on whether we're talking with a large distribution company or e-tailer or a smaller one? I would imagine, but maybe this is incorrect. The smaller distribution guys, the guys more in the street don't care as much, but if you could help us understand that.

它也處於保護狀態。那麼，您對 Instapak 有何看法？相關地，就防護而言，關注纖維與聚酯的可持續發展親和力是否會根據我們是與大型分銷公司、電子零售商還是較小的公司進行談判而有所不同？我會想像，但也許這是不正確的。較小的分銷人員，街上的人不太關心，但如果你能幫助我們理解這一點。

And then lastly, as you move this transformation over time to fiber versus plastic, recognizing no guarantees here because it's still nascent days for you, does it make the business more or less price competitive? Do you think it makes your pricing more variable, less predictable or more if you move to fiber over time?

最後，隨著時間的推移，當您將這種轉變轉向纖維與塑料時，您認識到這裡沒有任何保證，因為這對您來說仍處於起步階段，這是否會使企業的價格競爭力增強或減弱？您認為隨著時間的推移，如果您轉向光纖，這是否會使您的定價變得更加可變、更難以預測或更多？

Thank you, George. Great question. So let me start with the question you asked about -- So where I see the difference is really more between products that touch the consumer and products that go into a more industrial space. Those are the biggest shifts that I see.

謝謝你，喬治。很好的問題。讓我從你問的問題開始——我認為，接觸消費者的產品和進入更多工業領域的產品之間的差異實際上更大。這些是我看到的最大的轉變。

Yes, there will be differences between larger and smaller consumers, but it is actually more pronounced when it comes to products touching consumer. And that goes back to your Instapak question. So Instapak typically hits more in the industrial space because our products are typically heavier, more -- higher value and the industrial segment is much more price sensitive and much less driven by consumer preferences who want to get out of poly and going into paper.

是的，大消費者和小消費者之間會有差異，但當涉及到觸及消費者的產品時，這種差異實際上更加明顯。這又回到了你的 Instapak 問題。因此，Instapak 通常在工業領域受到更大的衝擊，因為我們的產品通常更重、價值更高，而且工業領域對價格更加敏感，並且不太受消費者偏好的驅動，他們希望擺脫聚酯而轉向造紙。

So these are areas actually that I think Instapak is an important part of our portfolio. That is an area that from a fiber-based shift is much less under pressure because simply fiber-based products will not give these products the same level of protection. And that is important as we move forward, plus the other thing is the curbside recycling for consumers is a very different ballgame than the recycling opportunities you have in industrial. So more price sensitive and does feel recyclability is more available.

因此，我認為 Instapak 實際上是我們產品組合的重要組成部分。在這一領域，基於纖維的轉變所面臨的壓力要小得多，因為單純基於纖維的產品不會為這些產品提供相同程度的保護。隨著我們的前進，這一點很重要，另一件事是，對於消費者來說，路邊回收與工業領域的回收機會截然不同。因此，對價格更加敏感，並且確實感覺可回收性更容易獲得。

So from that point of view, I do believe there is a difference between the different segments, but not necessarily as much in the small and larger space, more in terms of where the product touches the consumer or not.

因此，從這個角度來看，我確實相信不同細分市場之間存在差異，但在小空間和大空間中不一定有那麼大的差異，更多的是在產品是否接觸消費者的地方方面。

So then let's talk a little bit about the pricing. So I talked about as we develop more fiber-based alternatives, it is really important to us that we become more substrate agnostic. And why am I saying that? That is very important as we develop our equipment that we have a drop in. So customers have choices. So whether they use poly or they use fiber-based alternative, we do have that opportunity.

那麼讓我們來談談定價。因此，我談到，隨著我們開發更多基於纖維的替代品，我們變得更加不可知論對我們來說非常重要。我為什麼這麼說？當我們開發我們可以使用的設備時，這一點非常重要。所以客戶有選擇。因此，無論他們使用聚乙烯還是基於纖維的替代品，我們都確實有這樣的機會。

Now typically, just by nature of how much more material we use on the paper side, it's going to be more expensive to use a fiber-based product than a poly product. Customers have that choice now. So I do think the price predictability is relatively stable from that point of view.

現在，通常情況下，根據我們在紙面上使用的材料的性質，使用纖維產品會比使用聚酯產品更昂貴。客戶現在有這樣的選擇。因此，從這個角度來看，我確實認為價格的可預測性相對穩定。

But what is more critically important to us as an organization is that people want to go shop for fiber-based products, they don't have to go somewhere else. They can use the fiber-based option that we're offering them and potentially just a drop-in, in the equipment that we're using today.

但作為一個組織，對我們來說更重要的是人們想要購買纖維產品，而不必去其他地方。他們可以使用我們為他們提供的基於光纖的選項，並且可能只是我們今天使用的設備中的臨時選項。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn it back to CEO, Patrick Kivits, for closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。現在我想請執行長 Patrick Kivits 發表結束語。

So I'd like to thank everyone for the time today. I look forward to updating you over the coming quarters on the progress we are continuing to make to transform Sealed Air. And lastly, I'd like to close by thanking the global Sealed Air team for their efforts in solving our customers' most critical packaging challenges every day. Thank you.

所以我要感謝大家今天的時間。我期待在未來幾季向您通報我們在 Sealed Air 轉型方面繼續取得的進展。最後，我要感謝全球 Sealed Air 團隊每天為解決客戶最關鍵的包裝挑戰所做的努力。謝謝。

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program, and you may now disconnect.

感謝您參加今天的會議。這確實結束了程序，您現在可以斷開連接。