Vivid Seats Inc (SEAT) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and welcome to the Vivid Seats second-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Following management's prepared remarks, we will open the call for Q&A.

早安，歡迎參加 Vivid Seats 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。在管理階層準備好發言之後，我們將開始問答環節。

I would now like to turn the call over to Kate Africk.

現在我想把電話轉給凱特·阿弗里克。

Good morning and welcome to Vivid Seats second-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. I'm Kate Africk, Head of Investor Relations at Vivid Seats. Joining me today to discuss Vivid Seats results are Stan Chia, Chief Executive Officer; and Larry Fey, Chief Financial Officer.

早安，歡迎參加 Vivid Seats 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。我是凱特·阿弗里克 (Kate Africk)，Vivid Seats 投資者關係主管。今天與我一起討論 Vivid Seats 業績的有執行長 Stan Chia 和財務長 Larry Fey。

By now, everyone should have access to our second quarter earnings press release, which was issued earlier this morning. The press release, as well as supplemental earnings slides are available on the Investor Relations page of our website at investors.vividseats.com.

現在，每個人都應該可以看到我們今天早上發布的第二季財報新聞稿。新聞稿以及補充收益幻燈片可在我們網站 investors.vividseats.com 的投資者關係頁面找到。

During the course of today's call, we may make forward-looking statements within the meeting of federal securities laws. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks and uncertainties described in our earnings press release, our most recent annual report on Form 10-K, and our other filings with the SEC.

在今天的電話會議中，我們可能會根據聯邦證券法做出前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受可能導致實際結果大不相同的風險和不確定性的影響，包括我們的收益新聞稿、我們最近的 10-K 表年度報告以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中描述的風險和不確定性。

On today's call, we will refer to adjusted EBITDA, which is a non-GAAP financial measure that provides useful information for our investors. A reconciliation of this non-GAAP financial measure to its corresponding GAAP financial measure can be found in our earnings press release and supplemental earnings slides.

在今天的電話會議上，我們將參考調整後的 EBITDA，這是一種非 GAAP 財務指標，可以為我們的投資者提供有用的信息。在我們的收益新聞稿和補充收益幻燈片中可以找到此非 GAAP 財務指標與其相應的 GAAP 財務指標的對帳。

And now I would like to turn the call over to Stan.

現在我想把電話轉給史丹。

Good morning everyone and thank you for joining us today. Today, I'll walk through our second-quarter results, provide context on the broader industry environment, and detail a strategic cost reduction program that we are executing against. This initiative is designed to right size our cost structure, improve operating leverage, and better position Vivid Seats to capitalize on long term growth opportunities. Then I'll turn it over to Larry to share our financial results in more detail.

大家早安，謝謝你們今天加入我們。今天，我將介紹我們的第二季業績，介紹更廣泛的產業環境，並詳細介紹我們正在執行的策略成本削減計劃。該計劃旨在調整我們的成本結構、提高營運槓桿，並使 Vivid Seats 更好地利用長期成長機會。然後我會讓拉里更詳細地分享我們的財務結果。

In the second quarter, we delivered $685 million of Marketplace GOV, $144 million of revenues, and $14 million of adjusted EBITDA. The industry and competitive landscape continue to present a challenging near-term operating environment, but we nonetheless continue to have conviction in the tailwinds driving live event growth on a long-term basis.

第二季度，我們的 Marketplace GOV 營收為 6.85 億美元，營收為 1.44 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 1,400 萬美元。產業和競爭格局持續呈現出充滿挑戰的短期營運環境，但我們仍然堅信，長期來看，順風將推動現場活動的成長。

Similar to Q1, in Q2 we saw industry growth to start the quarter that gave way to double digit industry declines across categories in June. While some amount of monthly oscillation is to be expected due to event mix, the degree of monthly volatility has been elevated thus far in 2025, which we attribute to a combination of economic uncertainty and the implementation of the FTC's All-In Pricing mandate.

與第一季類似，第二季開始時，各行業均呈現成長，但 6 月各類別產業均出現兩位數下滑。雖然由於事件組合的原因，預計每月會出現一定程度的波動，但到 2025 年為止，每月波動程度已經有所上升，我們將其歸因於經濟不確定性和聯邦貿易委員會 (FTC) 的“全包定價”授權的實施。

The sports category was particularly weak and down double digits in Q2 with underwhelming playoff matchups, challenging comps, and NFL schedule release occurring just two days after the All-In Pricing rollout.

體育類別尤其疲軟，第二季度下滑了兩位數，原因是季後賽對陣不盡如人意、比賽充滿挑戰，而且 NFL 賽程是在「全包定價」推出兩天后發布的。

Meanwhile, the concerts category was up low single digits in Q2, but down double digits in June. Recent industry trends including the switch to All-In Pricing, do not change our view that live events remain an attractive long-term opportunity supported by durable supply and demand tailwinds. Despite this long term confidence, the current operating environment is highly competitive, so we are taking deliberate action designed to enhance efficiency, strengthen our foundation for the future, and most importantly, to return to sustainable long-term growth.

與此同時，音樂會類別在第二季度上漲了個位數，但 6 月卻下降了兩位數。最近的行業趨勢包括轉向全包定價，但這並沒有改變我們的觀點，即在持久的供需順風的支持下，現場活動仍然是一個有吸引力的長期機會。儘管我們擁有長期信心，但當前的經營環境競爭激烈，因此我們正在採取謹慎的行動，以提高效率，鞏固未來的基礎，最重要的是恢復可持續的長期成長。

Today we announced a cost reduction program targeting $25 million in annualized operating expense savings to be actioned upon by year end. We are focused on increasing efficiency without compromising the experience we deliver to our fans or sellers. To date we have realized over $5 million in annualized savings. In line with our focus on operational efficiency, we have chosen to shut down (inaudible) with savings to come over the next several months as that business winds down.

今天，我們宣布了一項成本削減計劃，目標是在年底前節省 2500 萬美元的年度營運費用。我們專注於提高效率，同時不影響我們為粉絲或賣家提供的體驗。到目前為止，我們已實現年度節省超過 500 萬美元。為了保持對營運效率的關注，我們選擇關閉（聽不清楚），並在接下來的幾個月內隨著該業務的結束而節省開支。

We expect to realize the remaining savings under the program as we finish the year through additional technology and AI enabled efficiencies as well as targeted reductions in G&A and marketing. These actions are part of a broader commitment to ensure near term competitive challenges do not threaten long term value creation. Following the execution of these efficiency efforts, Vivid Seats will operate with greater agility, deliver more impact, and drive durable growth.

我們期望透過額外的技術和人工智慧實現效率以及有針對性地削減 G&A 和行銷費用，在今年年底實現該計劃下剩餘的節省。這些行動是更廣泛承諾的一部分，旨在確保近期的競爭挑戰不會威脅長期價值創造。透過實施這些效率措施，Vivid Seats 將更靈活地運營，產生更大的影響，並推動持久成長。

Importantly, we do not believe these cost reductions will impact our ability to innovate across our core strategic initiatives.

重要的是，我們不認為這些成本削減會影響我們在核心策略計畫上的創新能力。

As we've shared, our industry leading ERP SkyBox is utilized by over half of professional sellers to run their businesses. This quarter, we rolled out incremental analytical capabilities within SkyBox that were well received, and we are excited about additional SkyBox functionality in our product pipeline.

正如我們所分享的，超過一半的專業賣家使用我們行業領先的 ERP SkyBox 來經營他們的業務。本季度，我們在 SkyBox 中推出了增量分析功能，並獲得了廣泛好評，我們對產品線中新增的 SkyBox 功能感到非常興奮。

Internationally, I'm pleased to share that we are now live in four European countries. Our international business is demonstrating strong growth, albeit from a small base and is exceeding our margin expectations. While our initial target was to break even on a contribution basis while growing international revenues, we have been net contribution positive thus far in 2025. We look forward to further diligent expansion abroad.

在國際上，我很高興地告訴大家，我們的業務現在已經涵蓋四個歐洲國家。儘管基數較小，我們的國際業務仍呈現強勁成長，並且超出了我們的利潤預期。雖然我們最初的目標是在增加國際收入的同時實現貢獻收支平衡，但到 2025 年為止，我們的淨貢獻一直是正的。我們期待進一步努力拓展海外業務。

To conclude, the second-quarter was challenging, but we remain confident that better industry conditions will return. We are keenly focused on reigniting sustainable growth through best-in-class efficiency and differentiation on both sides of our marketplace.

總而言之，第二季充滿挑戰，但我們仍然相信產業狀況將會好轉。我們致力於透過一流的效率和市場兩端的差異化來重新激發永續成長。

With that, I will turn it over to Larry for a more detailed financial review of the quarter.

說完這些，我將把責任交給拉里，讓他對本季進行更詳細的財務審查。

Thank you, Stan. We generated $685 million of Marketplace GOV in Q2, which was down 31% year over year. Total Marketplace orders were down approximately 30% year over year, while average order size was down 2%. We generated $144 million of revenues in Q2, which was down 28% year over year.

謝謝你，斯坦。我們在第二季產生了 6.85 億美元的 Marketplace GOV，年減 31%。市場訂單總量較去年同期下降約 30%，平均訂單規模下降 2%。我們第二季的營收為 1.44 億美元，年減 28%。

Our Q2 marketplace take rate was 16.7% down slightly year over year. While we expect some degree of continued take rate variability, we anticipate near term take rate will remain in the 16% range. Q2 2025 adjusted EBITDA was $14 million, down substantially from the prior year, due primarily to lower volume and negative operating leverage.

我們第二季的市場接受率為 16.7%，年比略有下降。雖然我們預期接受率將繼續發生一定程度的變化，但我們預期短期接受率將保持在 16% 的範圍內。2025 年第二季調整後的 EBITDA 為 1,400 萬美元，較上年大幅下降，主要原因是銷售下降和經營槓桿為負。

Performance marketing intensity continues unabated and will continue to pressure results. Despite this pressure, we remain focused on creating a path to return to sustainable growth. We will drive additional efficiency through our cost reduction program and we'll utilize a portion of these savings to offer a leading value proposition to buyers while remaining competitive across relevant marketing channels as we look to stabilize topline in 2026 and beyond.

效果行銷力道持續不減，並將繼續給業績帶來壓力。儘管面臨壓力，我們仍然致力於開闢一條恢復永續成長的道路。我們將透過成本削減計畫提高效率，並利用節省下來的部分資金為買家提供領先的價值主張，同時保持在相關行銷管道的競爭力，力爭在 2026 年及以後穩定營收。

We ended Q2 with $392 million of debt and $153 million of cash with net debt of $239 million. In the quarter, we utilize approximately $9 million in cash to purchase approximately 4 million shares of our Class A common stock at an average price of $2.34. As Stan noted, due to industry volumes were quite soft, even relative to typical seasonality.

我們第二季結束時的債務為 3.92 億美元，現金為 1.53 億美元，淨債務為 2.39 億美元。本季度，我們動用約900萬美元現金，以平均2.34美元的價格回購了約400萬股A類普通股。正如Stan所指出的，由於行業交易量疲軟，即使相對於典型的季節性因素也是如此。

Our quarter-end cash balance is driven by volume trends as we exit the quarter, which resulted in continued pressure on cash balances in Q2. We anticipate positive cash flow in Q3 due to a combination of typical seasonality improvements and a belief that the degree of June softness was atypical.

我們的季度末現金餘額受季度結束時的交易量趨勢驅動，這導致第二季度的現金餘額持續承壓。由於典型的季節性改善以及 6 月疲軟程度非典型，我們預計第三季現金流將為正值。

Lastly, please note that our planned 1 for 20 reverse stock split, which was announced yesterday, will become effective after market closed today. Our second quarter financial statements reflect share accounts in per share amounts before the reverse stock split, but subsequent periods will be reported on a post-split basis. We believe the reverse stock split will, among other things, enhance the marketability of our common stock.

最後，請注意，我們昨天宣布的 1 比 20 反向股票分割計畫將於今天收盤後生效。我們的第二季財務報表反映了反向股票分割之前的每股股票帳戶金額，但後續期間將以分割後的基礎報告。我們相信，反向股票分割將增強我們普通股的市場性。

I'll now hand it back to Stan for concluding remarks.

現在我將發言交還給斯坦，請他做總結發言。

Thanks Larry. While industry challenges continued in the second quarter, our long-term thesis on live events persists. Our aim is to remain lean, agile and well positioned to capture opportunity as the environment evolves and ultimately return to sustainable long-term growth.

謝謝拉里。儘管第二季產業挑戰仍在繼續，但我們對現場活動的長期論點仍然存在。我們的目標是保持精簡、靈活，並做好準備，隨著環境的變化抓住機遇，最終實現可持續的長期成長。

And with that operator, open up the line for questions.

並透過此接線員開通熱線來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Dan Kurnos, Benchmark Company.

Dan Kurnos，基準公司。

Yeah, good morning guys. A couple for me, maybe just kind of high-level thoughts on -- takes a little higher in the quarter, I don't know if that was just in anticipation of you guys implementing the cost controls. So I guess -- do we think that you guys are looking at the way the market is transpiring right now and going, okay, there's maybe smaller TAM on GOV, but we can be more profitable and more nimble within that or once these cost savings get implemented.

是的，大家早安。對我來說，也許只是一些高層次的想法 - 本季的成本會稍微高一些，我不知道這是否只是預期你們實施成本控制。所以我想——我們是否認為你們正在觀察市場目前的趨勢，好吧，GOV 的 TAM 可能較小，但我們可以在其中獲得更高的利潤，並且更加靈活，或者一旦這些成本節約得到實施。

I know you talked in the prepared remarks stand about, being more competitive in the back half of the year, but there's obviously an intelligent way to do it. So maybe kind of just walk us through threading that needle.

我知道您在準備好的發言中談到了在下半年提高競爭力，但顯然有一個聰明的方法可以做到這一點。所以也許可以引導我們完成穿針引線的任務。

Yeah, hey, Dan, thanks for that. I'll take the first part and then certainly Larry can talk a little bit more about the take rate move. But yeah, I think when you look at certainly in the environment and how we're positioning ourselves, we are still continued to be really focused and honing our unit economics and really plan on emerging much leaner and using that as a mechanism to drive sustainable growth really into 2026. Lots of activity now as we continue to optimize our cost structure that we think will allow us to really push that growth, as we drive acquisition and to have lots of leverage on that kind of moving again forward with our eyes towards '26, post some of these cost reductions.

是的，嘿，丹，謝謝你。我將討論第一部分，然後拉里可以再多談一些有關接受率變動的問題。但是的，我認為當你觀察環境和我們如何定位自己時，我們仍然會繼續真正集中精力，磨練我們的單位經濟，真正計劃變得更加精簡，並以此作為一種機制，真正推動 2026 年的可持續增長。隨著我們繼續優化成本結構，我們現在開展了大量活動，我們認為這將使我們能夠真正推動成長，因為我們推動收購，並在這種向前邁進的過程中擁有很大的影響力，我們著眼於'26年，實現一些成本削減。

And down the pay grade itself -- I would not read into that, that we actually increased pricing. There's some mix shifts across some of our different relationship types, right, namely marketplace and the private label, and so if anything -- if you think about the two competitive levers, the two primary competitive levers out there with marketing expense and take rate, I think the intent and focus is on sustaining if not increasing competitiveness across both of those levers this year moving forward.

至於工資等級本身——我不會將其解讀為我們實際上提高了價格。我們的一些不同關係類型發生了一些混合變化，即市場和自有品牌，所以如果有的話 - 如果你考慮兩個競爭槓桿，兩個主要的競爭槓桿是營銷費用和接受率，我認為意圖和重點是維持甚至提高今年這兩個槓桿的競爭力。

Got it. And Larry, can you just give us some color on the buckets of the annualized savings plan?

知道了。拉里，您能否向我們詳細介紹年度儲蓄計劃的各個部分？

Yeah, I would think of all of the numbers that we're referencing when we talk about savings as fixed expense, so we're not taking credit for anything that would be variable, so you know volume goes down, you spend less on credit cards. Volume goes down, you spend less on paid search. That is not being captured in there.

是的，當我們談論儲蓄時，我會把我們參考的所有數字都視為固定支出，因此我們不會將任何可變的支出計入信用，因此你知道儲蓄量下降，你在信用卡上的支出就會減少。數量下降，您在付費搜尋上的花費就會減少。那裡沒有被捕獲。

So what is in there though is, what I call fixed marketing, I like longer duration brand type marketing is on the block and then G&A. Our G&A is primarily people and software expense. So you can think of this as additional efficiency across those two categories. As we look at the targets, the majority is expected to come out of G&A.

所以，其中的內容是我所說的固定行銷，我喜歡較長時間的品牌類型行銷，然後是 G&A。我們的一般及行政費用主要是人事及軟體費用。因此，你可以將其視為這兩個類別之間的額外效率。當我們查看目標時，預計大部分將來自 G&A。

Got it. Thanks guys. Appreciate it.

知道了。謝謝大家。非常感謝。

Ralph Schackart, William Blair.

拉爾夫·沙卡特、威廉·布萊爾。

Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. Just in terms of kind of looking back at the quarter, I think you called out consumer spending, obviously, as well as competitive pressures. Any way you could split that out and give a sense, maybe which one was having a bigger impact during the quarter. I know it's difficult, but just any color there. And then I have a follow up..

早安.感謝您回答這個問題。回顧本季度，我認為您顯然提到了消費者支出以及競爭壓力。無論如何，你可以把它們分開並給出一個概念，也許哪一個在本季產生了更大的影響。我知道這很難，但是任何顏色都可以。然後我有一個後續行動...

Yeah, it's hard to be precise, but the best proxy, I think that we have recognizing that Vegas isn't directly analogous to all of our markets, you do get I think the cleanest read on underlying trends with the transient nature of Vegas and we saw kind of throughout the first half, consistent year over year declines, I think in the mid to high single digits in terms of some combination of visitors, hotel occupancy, price points. I think there was a fair amount of chatter recently on the either June or July data coming out showing Vegas was down double digits. So I think the headline is certainly the competitive intensity, but the consumer softness is probably a couple 100 basis points of underlying headwind.

是的，很難準確，但最好的代理是，我認為我們已經認識到拉斯維加斯並不直接類似於我們所有的市場，我認為你確實對拉斯維加斯短暫性的潛在趨勢有了最清晰的解讀，我們看到整個上半年，拉斯維加斯的遊客數量、酒店入住率和價格點等都出現了同比持續下降，我認為下降幅度在中高個位數。我認為最近有很多關於六月或七月數據的討論，這些數據顯示拉斯維加斯的旅遊業下滑了兩位數。因此，我認為主要問題肯定是競爭激烈，但消費者疲軟可能是潛在阻力的數百個基點。

Great. And just in terms of Europe sounds like, obviously off a small base as you noted, but it's exceeding your margin expectations. I know you have a lot going on right now, but just as you sort of get through this period of transition, does that sort of reshape your thoughts on your rollout plan or the number of countries.

偉大的。就歐洲而言，正如您所說，顯然基數較小，但超出了您的利潤預期。我知道您現在有很多事情要做，但是當您度過這個過渡期時，這是否會重新塑造您對推廣計劃或國家數量的想法。

Maybe kind of speak to what you're thinking about that market as the calendar turns into 2026, would it, allow you to potentially accelerate that growth, any perspective that would be great. Thank you.

也許您可以談談您對 2026 年市場的看法，它是否可以讓您加速成長，任何觀點都很好。謝謝。

Yeah. Hey Ralph. Yeah, I think we've been pretty pleased by what we've seen internationally as we've talked about probably ahead of schedule in terms of number of countries that we're in and ahead of schedule in terms of what we're seeing from a contribution margin perspective.

是的。嘿，拉爾夫。是的，我認為我們對國際上看到的情況感到非常滿意，因為就我們所涉及的國家數量而言，可能已經提前完成了計劃，而且從貢獻利潤率的角度來看，也已經提前完成了計劃。

So I think as we continue to see that dynamic, I think we are excited and continue to be thoughtful but willing to accelerate investment as we see that as certainly TAM accretive and margin accretive in the future and we'll continue to, I think look to make investments to grow that part of our business.

因此，我認為，隨著我們繼續看到這種動態，我們會感到興奮，並繼續深思熟慮，但願意加快投資，因為我們認為這肯定會增加未來 TAM 和利潤率，而且我們將繼續，我認為我們會尋求投資來發展我們業務的這一部分。

Okay, great. Thanks, Stan. Thanks, Larry.

好的，太好了。謝謝，斯坦。謝謝，拉里。

Cameron Mansson-Perrone, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的卡梅倫·曼森-佩羅內。

Thank you. Morning team. First, I wanted to ask -- Google on their earnings call this quarter, they talked a bit about activity, search activity shifting into more towards AI mode. I was wondering if I could get your thoughts or thinking about how as search activity changes in that regard, how that might impact your SEO and performance marketing channels and any read through as you're thinking about it in terms of how that impacts the secondary ticketing industry more broadly.

謝謝。早安團隊。首先，我想問一下——谷歌在本季的財報電話會議上談到了活動，搜尋活動轉向了更多的人工智慧模式。我想知道我是否可以聽聽您的想法或思考，隨著搜尋活動在這方面發生變化，這可能會對您的搜尋引擎優化和績效行銷管道產生什麼影響，以及您是否正在考慮這將如何影響二級票務行業。

And then second on the savings opportunity, Larry, I was wondering if -- just a housekeeping question, but is the $25 million, is that in period savings, is it an annualized kind of exit rate at year end '25? Just a little bit more specificity there would be helpful. Thanks.

其次，關於儲蓄機會，拉里，我想知道——只是一個常規問題，但這 2500 萬美元是期間儲蓄嗎？這是 25 年底的年度化退出率嗎？只要稍微具體一點就會有幫助。謝謝。

Yeah, hey Cameron, I'll take the first part and then fun it over to Larry on the savings, but yeah look, I mean, certainly I think I'd start by framing, as we look at how consumer discovery continues to evolve. I mean it's clear and we're certainly an example of how much consumer discovery flows through the Google Funnel, which today I think has a lot of opportunity for cost and spend-based funneling of traffic.

是的，嘿，卡梅倫，我會先討論第一部分，然後再把節省的問題交給拉里，但是是的，我的意思是，我當然認為我會從框架開始，因為我們會看看消費者發現是如何不斷發展的。我的意思是，這很明顯，我們確實是消費者發現有多少流經 Google 漏斗的一個例子，今天我認為它有很多基於成本和支出的流量漏斗機會。

I think certainly as AI overviews is coming through, I think you see, I think expected behavior there where I think you're getting, a lot of perhaps relevancy overspend that's showing up and certainly as we think about that adaptation of how consumers discovery AI overviews as it pertains to search and other evolving and emerging channels, we continue to look at that and really position our platform to be discoverable, and ready to take advantage of those channels.

我認為，隨著人工智慧概覽的出現，我認為你會看到，我認為你會得到預期的行為，很多相關性超支的情況正在出現，當然，當我們考慮消費者如何發現人工智能概覽時，因為它涉及搜索和其他不斷發展和新興的渠道，我們會繼續關注這一點，並真正定位我們的平台，使其可被發現，並準備利用這些渠道。

So lots of stuff, I think changing in that world. I think certainly on the Google front we're paying close attention and deeply in partnership with them as some of that search experience evolves.

所以我認為這個世界上有很多東西正在改變。我認為，在Google方面，隨著搜尋體驗的不斷演變，我們正密切關注並與他們建立深入的合作關係。

And on the cost reduction question, the number we put forward, think of that as a full-year annualized figure that we will expect to have fully actioned by the end of this calendar year. And so incremental to 2026 results in full but as you look at the back half of '25, I'd say they are in flight and they will layer in over the coming months and so not a particularly significant immediate benefit, but it'll scale quickly as we fully action the identified savings.

關於成本削減問題，我們提出的數字，可以看作是一個全年的年度數字，我們預計在今年年底前將全面實施。因此，到 2026 年，增量將完全實現，但當你回顧 25 年下半年時，我想說，它們正在飛行中，並將在未來幾個月內分層堆積，因此不會帶來特別顯著的直接利益，但隨著我們全面採取行動實現已確定的節省，它將迅速擴大。

Got it. That's helpful. Thank you both.

知道了。這很有幫助。謝謝你們兩位。

Ryan Sigdahl, Craig Hallum.

瑞安·西格達爾、克雷格·哈勒姆。

Hey, thanks. This is Matthew Robb on for Ryan. On industry volume, Larry, you gave a little color on the cadence of the quarter, gave a little insight into June. Can you maybe talk a little bit more about the all in pricing change and how that's changed the market from a consumer perspective, and then I don't know if I caught it, did the June softness continue into Q3?

嘿，謝謝。這是 Matthew Robb 為 Ryan 主持的節目。關於行業規模，拉里，您對本季度的節奏做了一些說明，對六月的情況也做了一些了解。您能否再多談一下整體價格變化以及從消費者角度來看這如何改變市場，然後我不知道我是否明白了，六月份的疲軟態勢是否延續到了第三季度？

Yeah, so, I say the story is not yet fully written on all in pricing, we've seen this before the national rollout play out at several states, the Maryland, California, Tennessee had previously moved to all in pricing. And what we did see was a decline in those states in conversion that persisted for a couple months and then largely normalized which would generally foot with what we've seen across various testings where conversions generally higher if you do utilize lower price up front with these shown in the checkout versus an all in price.

是的，所以，我想說，關於全價定價的故事還沒有完全寫完，在全國推廣之前，我們已經在幾個州看到了這種情況，馬裡蘭州、加利福尼亞州、田納西州此前已經轉向全價定價。我們確實看到這些州的轉換率下降持續了幾個月，然後基本上恢復正常，這與我們透過各種測試看到的情況大致相符，如果你預先使用較低的價格，並且結帳時顯示這些價格而不是全價，轉換率通常會更高。

I think the part that's -- we have the data points from the prior state examples, but now we have a lot more states flowing through and it's [PDD] and will that recovery that we saw in those other states fully flow through at the national level. But broadly it's tracking and I think there is a digestion period that we're certainly working through and we'll see as we approach kind of next year's calendar if the flow through and cascade properly works its way through the system or if there's another kind of digestion period as the industry recalibrates kind of up and down the chain.

我認為部分原因是 - 我們有來自先前各州示例的數據點，但現在我們有更多的州正在經歷並且它是 [PDD]，我們在其他州看到的復甦是否會在國家層面完全蔓延。但從大體上來說，它是一種跟踪，我認為我們正在經歷一個消化期，隨著明年日曆的臨近，我們將看到，流通和級聯是否能夠在系統中正常運作，或者是否存在另一種消化期，因為行業會重新調整鏈條的上下部分。

Okay, and then on just the June softness, did that continue into Q3?

好的，那麼 6 月的疲軟態勢會延續到第三季嗎？

Yeah, so I think we noted on Q1 month to month volatility, noted again in Q2, month to month volatility. I'd say volatility continues, so we've actually seen July revert to being up year over year. Now July is a softer period, so all of the caveats that I would put on an already volatile year that volatility continues, but we are seeing July return deposit.

是的，所以我認為我們注意到第一季的月度波動，在第二季度再次注意到月度波動。我想說波動性仍在繼續，所以我們實際上已經看到 7 月的漲幅回升至同比上漲。現在七月份是一個較為疲軟的時期，因此，對於已經動蕩的一年，我要提出的所有警告是，波動將繼續，但我們看到了七月份的存款回報。

Okay, thanks guys.

好的，謝謝大家。

Andrew Marok, Raymond James.

安德魯馬羅克、雷蒙詹姆斯。

I thanks for taking my question. On the cost savings again, so you mentioned shutting down Vivid (inaudible), but are there any other of those kind of emerging areas or investment initiatives that might come under review in the cost reduction program, or is that kind of mostly aimed, like you said at the core of the legacy business and the OpEx involved in that? And then I have a follow up.

感謝您回答我的問題。再次談到成本節約，您提到關閉 Vivid（聽不清楚），但在成本削減計劃中是否還有其他類型的新興領域或投資計劃可能會受到審查，或者這是否主要針對傳統業務的核心以及其中涉及的運營支出？然後我有一個後續行動。

Hey Andrew, yeah, I think we, we're continuing to, I think put our lens on all areas, I think that can be really streamlined and enable us to be as lean and nimble I think it's possible as we look to really drive investment into growth. So I think our portfolio of investments, I think is completely under review, but certainly our focus is on I think our large G&A base which I think we believe we can significantly streamline by the end of the year.

嘿，安德魯，是的，我認為我們，我們正在繼續，我認為把我們的眼光放在所有領域，我認為這可以真正簡化，並使我們能夠精簡和靈活，我認為這是可能的，因為我們希望真正推動投資成長。因此，我認為我們的投資組合正在接受全面審查，但我們的重點當然是我們龐大的 G&A 基礎，我相信我們可以在年底前顯著精簡該基礎。

Appreciate it. And then maybe a quick one on 2Q. So I heard that the poor playoff matchups were one of the reasons that sports came in a bit below in the quarter. Is there any way to quantify the contribution of a poor playoff slate versus a good one, or just kind of the range of outcomes that we should be thinking about in like a typical playoff season? Thank you.

非常感謝。然後也許會快速討論一下第二季。所以我聽說季後賽對上不佳是本季體育表現略遜一籌的原因之一。有什麼方法可以量化季後賽表現不佳和表現良好的球隊所做出的貢獻，或者量化我們在典型的季後賽中應該考慮的一系列結果？謝謝。

Yeah, the sports comp, I would characterize as a pile of issues that summed up to the headwind. Last year we had the Copa America that drove pretty significant volume in soccer. This year we did have the FIFA World Cup, but that came in considerably smaller than Copa, we had a tough soccer comp. Last year I'd say Caitlin Clark fever was at its peak, so we saw some headwinds on all things women's basketball on a year over year basis.

是的，我認為運動比賽就是一堆問題，總結起來就是逆風。去年我們舉辦了美洲杯，這大大推動了足球賽事的發展。今年我們確實舉辦了世界杯，但規模比美洲杯小得多，我們的足球比賽非常激烈。我想說去年凱特琳克拉克熱潮達到了頂峰，所以我們看到女子籃球的各個方面都逐年遭遇阻力。

And then, as you noted, some matchup softness. That -- if I were to put a rough number, call it an NBA finals between two small market teams versus the NBA finals between the Lakers and Celtics, I would probably say in the quarter that type of series guardrails are like 1% of GOV, so a fraction of a percent when you think of it on a full year basis. There's just such diversity in events anyone won't make or break, but when it's part of a contributing series of issues we like to call it that.

然後，正如您所說，一些匹配柔和。如果我要給出一個粗略的數字，稱其為兩個小市場球隊之間的 NBA 總決賽與湖人隊和凱爾特人隊之間的 NBA 總決賽，我可能會說在本季度，這種系列賽的護欄就像 GOV 的 1%，所以當你從全年的角度考慮時，這只是百分之幾。事件的多樣性是任何人都無法創造或破壞的，但當它成為一系列問題的一部分時，我們喜歡這樣稱呼它。

Understood, thank you.

明白了，謝謝。

Curtis Nagle, Bank of America.

美國銀行的柯蒂斯‧納格爾。

Great, just a quick one for me. On the $25 million expense reductions, could we just go through, I guess the balance of flow through versus reinvestment and where were those reinvested dollars primarily go?

太好了，對我來說只是快速的一點。關於 2500 萬美元的費用削減，我們能否簡單地討論一下，我想是流通資金與再投資之間的平衡，以及這些再投資的資金主要流向了哪裡？

Yeah, I think some level of reserved judgment on exactly what what the ratios will be based on what we see in the competitive landscape, but I think we've touched on the two major -- you call it competitive levers in the P&L are you the value proposition you're offering customers on the top line and then the marketing expense on the cost side.

是的，我認為根據我們在競爭格局中看到的情況，我們對比率的具體內容會持某種程度的保留判斷，但我認為我們已經觸及了兩個主要方面——你稱之為損益表中的競爭槓桿，即你向客戶提供的價值主張，以及成本方面的營銷費用。

We'll reiterate our view that the incremental yield on marketing spend in this current environment is difficult to put it politely. And so you can imagine reinvestment focusing on the other lever with exact form and channel to be fully resolved as we continue to evaluate exactly where we want to go and how, but if you think about Base pricing, loyalty, that promos that portfolio of offers. I think is where you would most likely reinvested and really if you think about it, you call it LTD to cap paradigm focus on enhancing LTD in a world where cap is under severe pressure.

我們重申我們的觀點，在當前環境下，行銷支出的增量收益很難說得清楚。因此，你可以想像再投資將重點放在另一個槓桿上，以確切的形式和管道得到完全解決，因為我們將繼續評估我們想要去哪裡以及如何去，但如果你考慮基本定價、忠誠度，那就促進了該組合的優惠。我認為這是你們最有可能進行再投資的地方，如果你認真考慮一下，你會發現，在這個資本承受巨大壓力的世界中，你稱之為 LTD，以上限範式為重點來增強 LTD。

Okay, understood. Thank you very much.

好的，明白了。非常感謝。

Maria Ripps, Canaccord.

瑪麗亞·里普斯（Maria Ripps），Canaccord。

Great. Morning. Thanks for taking my questions. So understanding competitive intensity on the marketing side, are there any alternative sort of customer acquisition channels that you may be exploring where competition is more manageable?

偉大的。早晨。感謝您回答我的問題。那麼，了解了行銷方面的競爭強度後，您是否正在探索其他更易於管理競爭的客戶獲取管道？

Yeah, thanks. I mean Maria, we're always looking -- there are complimentary channels to be had but they are all a fraction of what the paid search and performance channels are. Today, so if you think about hate social as an example, a lot of time spent on meta, on Reddit, on TikTok, but the transactional mindset is less. You're scrolling through pictures, you're having a chat versus you go into Google and you say I want tickets to X event.

是的，謝謝。我的意思是瑪麗亞，我們一直在尋找——有免費管道可供選擇，但它們都只是付費搜尋和績效管道的一小部分。今天，如果你以仇恨社交為例，你會發現人們在元資訊、Reddit、TikTok 上花了大量時間，但交易心態卻較少。您正在瀏覽圖片，您正在聊天，或者您進入谷歌並說我想要 X 活動的門票。

So we continue to find paid searches. Today by far the largest channel. Hence the comment earlier where, if you think about the other lever and retaining customers driving LTV through retention and repeat approach, I think that's the likely near term focus that we'll pursue.

因此我們繼續尋找付費搜尋。當今迄今為止最大的頻道。因此，正如先前的評論所說，如果你考慮其他槓桿並透過保留和重複方法保留客戶來推動 LTV，我認為這可能是我們將要追求的近期重點。

And then you know we have the broader questions on the longer term top of funnel that -- I think that's a question that spans not only our industry but many others.

然後你知道，我們在長期漏斗頂端有更廣泛的問題——我認為這不僅涉及我們的行業，也涉及許多其他行業。

Got it. That's very helpful. And then can you maybe help us understand some of the dynamics between our own properties versus private label revenue in Q2, I guess what's driving this accelerated pressure within the private label segment?

知道了。這非常有幫助。然後，您能否幫助我們了解第二季度我們自己的財產與自有品牌收入之間的一些動態，我猜是什麼推動了自有品牌領域的這種加速壓力？

Yeah, hey Maria. When you think about our private label business, I think it's made up of a multitude and of numerous distribution partners, and as you can imagine some -- they vary largely in size as well. I'd say, for us if you look at the disproportionate decline in private label, I think unfortunately one of our largest partners made a change and it resulted in us seeing some substantially smaller volume from that partner and thus the accelerated or sort of disproportionate decline in that segment of our business.

是的，嘿，瑪麗亞。當您考慮我們的自有品牌業務時，我認為它是由眾多分銷合作夥伴組成的，並且您可以想像，它們的規模也有很大差異。我想說，對於我們來說，如果你看一下自有品牌的不成比例的下降，我認為不幸的是，我們最大的合作夥伴之一做出了改變，這導致我們從該合作夥伴那裡看到的銷量大幅減少，從而導致我們業務的這一部分加速或不成比例地下降。

Great, thanks so much.

太好了，非常感謝。

Benjamin Black, Deutsche Bank.

班傑明·布萊克，德意志銀行。

Great, thank you for taking my questions. Can we talk about the decision to invest internationally instead of sort of supporting the US market with more capital just given the challenges that you're seeing here. So you talked about the rationale there.

太好了，謝謝你回答我的問題。考慮到您所面臨的挑戰，我們能否談談進行國際投資而不是向美國市場投入更多資金的決定？所以你談到了那裡的理由。

And maybe on the other side of the marketplace, how is the competition evolves on the seller side of the equation. Have you seen any impact on your supply at all, how professional brokers responding to sort of the challenging in market. Thank you.

也許在市場的另一端，賣方方面的競爭是如何演變的。您是否看到您的供應受到了任何影響，專業經紀人如何應對市場挑戰。謝謝。

Thanks, Ben. Yeah I'll speak to International sellers. Yeah on the international business, I would think of it as an analysis around the incremental contribution, that we can realistically get in the near term, and we talked about the J curve in getting international off the ground. We incurred most of that in 2024. And then I think in 2025 while the top line in absolute figures and as a percentage of our total business remains small, we are now through that contribution margin curve and are positive on contribution margin. There's some incremental G&A.

謝謝，本。是的，我會和國際賣家談談。是的，關於國際業務，我認為它是圍繞增量貢獻的分析，我們可以在短期內實際獲得這些貢獻，並且我們討論了國際業務起步的 J 曲線。其中大部分發生在 2024 年。然後我認為，到 2025 年，雖然絕對數字和占我們總業務的百分比仍然很小，但我們現在已經通過了貢獻利潤率曲線，並且貢獻利潤率呈正值。有一些增量的 G&A。

But as we look at the landscape and the ability to generate volume at structurally sound economics from what we've seen to date, the opportunity internationally remains healthy and robust and more consistent with what we would have seen in North America prior to the behavior of the last few years and so it continues to feel like an attractive pursuit, where it's still going to be a much smaller piece of the business for any reasonable time frame in North America but can still be a positive needle mover with absolute impact on our GOV and profitability.

但是，當我們從迄今為止所見的情況和在結構健全的經濟學條件下創造產量的能力來審視時，我們發現國際上的機會仍然健康、強勁，並且與我們在過去幾年的行為之前在北美所看到的更加一致，因此它仍然感覺像是一項有吸引力的追求，在北美任何合理的時間範圍內，它仍將只佔業務的一小部分，但仍然可以成為對政府的積極影響的積極影響。

On the sell side, Ben, I think sellers look for, both a combination of distribution channels as well as I think technology providers that allow them to efficiently and effectively run and grow their businesses. On the distribution side, I think we remain a significant source of volume from them and so I think we continue to look at better ways to serve that.

在賣方方面，本，我認為賣家尋求的是分銷管道和技術提供者的組合，以便他們能夠高效、有效地運營和發展業務。在分銷方面，我認為我們仍然是他們重要的銷售量來源，因此我認為我們會繼續尋找更好的方式來滿足這一需求。

And then certainly on the infrastructure and technology side our marketplace continues to build up components on SkyBox that we believe are are quite retentive and accretive to sellers we talked about in the prepared remarks launching analytics tool sets for them, this quarter, as well as I think enhancing some of the mobile user experiences we have for our sell side continue to be ways that we build and innovate on behalf of the sell side of the marketplace.

當然，在基礎設施和技術方面，我們的市場繼續在 SkyBox 上建立組件，我們認為這些組件對於賣家來說具有相當的保留性和增值性，我們在本季度為他們推出了分析工具集，以及我認為增強我們賣方的一些行動用戶體驗仍然是我們代表市場賣方進行構建和創新的方式。

Great. Thank you very much.

偉大的。非常感謝。

Brad Erickson, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的布拉德‧艾瑞克森 (Brad Erickson)。

Hey guys, thanks. I guess first -- as you think about all this competitive intensity happening, you keep talking about. I would be curious if you could just maybe break that down for us a bit more what's actually going on kind of industrywide now. Why is that so persistent and kind of what levers do you think you can pull there to help try and address.

嘿，大家，謝謝。我想首先——當你思考所有這些正在發生的激烈競爭時，你會繼續談論。我很好奇，您是否可以為我們更詳細地介紹一下目前整個行業到底發生了什麼事情。為什麼這種情況如此持續，您認為可以採取什麼措施來幫助解決。

And then second, just on the supply environment, maybe just any anything you can share in terms of what you're embedding and you're thinking for the second half of the year. Thanks.

其次，就供應環境而言，您可以分享任何有關您正在嵌入的內容以及您對下半年的想法。謝謝。

Yeah, on competitive landscape, I think we've spoken about the meaningful increase in aggressiveness and performance channels and think of that as, it's to Google or a Bing auction where someone when you type in a search right for Toronto Blue Jays tickets, someone is showing up in the first, second, third spot that's an open auction and the price people are willing to pay will influence who shows up at the top of that search, and there's data out there across industries that most often customers will click on the first link if they're going to click on any link.

是的，在競爭格局方面，我認為我們已經討論過積極性和績效渠道的顯著增長，可以將其想像成谷歌或必應拍賣，當你輸入多倫多藍鳥隊門票的搜索詞時，就會有人出現在第一、第二、第三個位置，這是一個公開拍賣，人們願意支付的價格將影響任何客戶會出現在搜索結果的頂部，各行各業的鏈接，如果各行各業的鏈接，如果他們會點擊任何第一個客戶會點擊。

And so as folks are willing to bid more for that first link, they can really take a meaningful portion of the available surface area and if they're able to effectively monopolize customer awareness by consistently showing up at the top spot, they will get disproportionate traffic flow and whether their value proposition is the most compelling or not, they'll continue to see that traffic.

因此，當人們願意為第一個連結出更高的價格時，他們實際上可以佔據可用表面積的很大一部分，如果他們能夠透過持續出現在頂部位置來有效地壟斷客戶意識，他們將獲得不成比例的流量，無論他們的價值主張是否最引人注目，他們都會繼續看到這種流量。

By our map That incremental bid is uneconomic, and I think you've seen across several industry players or if you kind of follow the industry chatter, that has proven out that this incremental spend is not economic, but different folks have different strategic objectives, and I think some folks are really focused on demonstrating top line growth, even if that's destructive to the industry profitability pool.

根據我們的地圖，增量出價是不經濟的，我想你已經看到了幾個行業參與者，或者如果你關注行業閒聊，這已經證明這種增量支出是不經濟的，但不同的人有不同的戰略目標，我認為有些人真正專注於展示營收增長，即使這對行業盈利池具有破壞性。

Frankly, coming into 2025, we thought that story was a, unfortunate but perhaps constrained to 2024 story and to our disappointment, it seems to continue unabated. The why and the endgame in all of this is less clear, because it seems like we're well past the bounds of any reasonable corporate finance framework that you could employ.

坦白說，進入 2025 年，我們認為這個故事是一個不幸但可能僅限於 2024 年的故事，令我們失望的是，它似乎仍在繼續。所有這一切的原因和結果尚不清楚，因為看起來我們已經遠遠超出了可以採用的任何合理公司財務框架的範圍。

And then supply for the back half of the year. Yeah, I think from our side we had touched on last quarter, saying that we think at the industry level, expect flat maybe down a little bit for the year. We saw Q2 come in roughly flat, albeit volatile. Q3 off to a positive start with relatively easy comps year over year, Q4 are tougher comps year over year.

然後是下半年的供應。是的，我認為從我們的角度來看，我們已經談到了上個季度的情況，我們認為從行業層面來看，預計今年的成長率將持平，甚至可能略有下降。我們看到第二季度雖然波動但基本上持平。第三季開局良好，年比業績相對容易，但第四季同比業績較為艱難。

So at this point, not really changing that perspective that flatish is probably the right paradigm from an industry standpoint, but to make a call on -- call it the Q4 on sale calendar and what that'll mean for 2026, bit premature, but for the next quarter and a half, the concert calendar is pretty locked, I think we feel fine about it. Not too much volatility there.

因此，目前來說，並沒有真正改變這種觀點，即從行業角度來看，持平可能是正確的範例，但要稱之為第四季度的銷售日曆，這對 2026 年意味著什麼，有點為時過早，但對於接下來的一個半季度，音樂會日曆已經相當確定，我想我們對此感覺良好。那裡的波動性並不太大。

Yeah, I think the only other one thing, Brad kind of circling back as you think about the broad industry dynamics. Certainly very aligned sort of with what we look to position ourselves to be able to do is, you certainly got a lot of marketing pressure and I think the structural changes that we are certainly embarking on will better position us to be aggressive on that front as things return to I think a period of growth for us.

是的，我認為唯一的另一件事是，當你思考廣泛的行業動態時，布拉德會回頭思考。當然，這與我們希望定位自己能夠做到的事情非常一致，你肯定承受著很大的營銷壓力，我認為，隨著事情回到我認為是我們的增長期，我們正在進行的結構性變化將使我們更好地處於積極主動的地位。

But certainly, when you look at the industry profit pool, it's not just the cap dynamic from a marketing perspective that's under pressure. There's certainly take rate pressure as well that exists, I think as we continue to see broadly, I think what we believe to be financially irrational moves on that front. And so as we look at again positioning ourselves for the future, I think our goal is to be able to compete whether it's on marketing or the take rate pressures that we're seeing with a lot of nimbleness and agility that we believe we can get as we lean out our cost structure.

但可以肯定的是，當你審視產業利潤池時，面臨壓力的不僅是從行銷角度來看的上限動態。當然也存在利率壓力，我認為隨著我們繼續廣泛觀察，我認為我們認為在這方面的財務舉措是不合理的。因此，當我們再次審視未來的定位時，我認為我們的目標是能夠參與競爭，無論是在行銷方面，還是在我們看到的利率壓力方面，我們都相信，透過精簡成本結構，我們可以獲得很大的靈活性和敏捷性。

Helpful. Thanks, guys.

很有幫助。謝謝大家。

Tom Forte, Maxim Group LLC.

湯姆福特（Tom Forte），Maxim Group LLC。

Great, thanks. So firstly Stan, Larry, best of luck navigating a challenging environment. One question, one follow up. On shuttering Vivid picks. Why shutter Vivid picks? It wasn't driving engagement as expected, competitive set relative margin versus remainder of business, regulatory environment, just additional thoughts that would be appreciated.

太好了，謝謝。首先，史丹、拉里，祝你們在充滿挑戰的環境中好運。一個問題，一個後續行動。關閉 Vivid 精選。為什麼要選擇 Vivid 精選？它並沒有像預期的那樣推動參與度，與剩餘業務相比，競爭設定了相對利潤率，監管環境，只是一些值得讚賞的額外想法。

Yeah, hey Tom, I think certainly -- probably the right hand it's a combination of all of the above, right -- I start with, we certainly had great aspirations and saw great early reads on potential engagement vehicles for the product that we had. I think as we look to focus in, I think certainly that that was an area that took focus away from the core business and we wanted to make sure as we thought about again the platform the cost structure that allowed us to really move nimbly that was one that fell a little bit outside the bounds.

是的，嘿，湯姆，我認為當然 - 可能右手是以上所有因素的結合，對 - 我首先，我們當然有很大的抱負，並且看到了關於我們產品的潛在參與工具的很好的早期解讀。我認為，當我們著眼於重點時，我當然認為這是一個將焦點從核心業務轉移開的領域，當我們再次考慮平台時，我們希望確保成本結構使我們能夠真正靈活地行動，而這個結構有點超出界限。

Of that -- similarly, as you talk about, I think there were in that space and continue to be increasing regulatory components that are unique and distinct from our core business and so as we looked at the overall impact, made the decision that it was more of a distraction than it was something that would enable the business and so decided to shut that down.

同樣，正如您所說，我認為在那個領域存在並且還在繼續增加與我們的核心業務不同且獨特的監管組成部分，因此，當我們考慮整體影響時，我們決定這更多的是一種幹擾，而不是促進業務發展，因此決定關閉它。

Just really quick, we tried our darndest to crack the cap cut and we just weren't able to do it at scale and so we sort of became stuck as a subscale provider with unit economics that just didn't create a pathway to becoming something other than a subscale provider, gave it a multi-year effort, tried a bunch of different approaches and once it became evident that we weren't able to unlock it more sustainable unit economic profile decided to call it.

很快，我們盡了最大的努力來破解上限削減問題，但卻無法大規模地做到這一點，因此，我們在某種程度上陷入了單位經濟的次級供應商的境地，無法創造出成為次級供應商以外的其他供應商的途徑，我們經過多年的努力，嘗試了許多不同的方法，一旦發現我們無法解鎖更可持續的單位經濟狀況，我們就決定稱之為。

Thanks, Larry. All right, so for my follow-up, can you give your current thoughts on adjusted EBITDA cash conversion for the remainder of the year, and then to the extent you're able to provide your thoughts on your cash flow expectations for 2025 and 2026?

謝謝，拉里。好的，那麼作為我的後續問題，您能否給出您對今年剩餘時間調整後的 EBITDA 現金轉換的當前看法，然後在何種程度上您能夠提供您對 2025 年和 2026 年現金流預期的看法？

Yeah, I think it continues to be a cash generation story driven primarily by two things. One, what where EBITDA shakes out and then two, if we're able to return to sequential GOV growth. So year over year trends likely to remain under pressure for the next several quarters, but if you can get sequential improvement, that will show up in the balance sheet.

是的，我認為這仍然是一個主要由兩件事推動的現金創造故事。第一，EBITDA 會出現什麼狀況？第二，我們是否能夠恢復連續的 GOV 成長。因此，未來幾季的同比趨勢可能仍將面臨壓力，但如果能夠取得連續改善，那麼這將體現在資產負債表中。

So I do think we expect to be cash flow positive in Q3, there's seasonal strength in Q3 relative to Q2, particularly if you compare September to June, which determines the end of quarter cash balance. In our resale business, we spend money in the first half acquiring inventory generally, move that inventory in the second half so entails there as well.

因此我確實認為我們預計第三季的現金流為正，第三季相對於第二季具有季節性優勢，特別是如果將 9 月與 6 月進行比較，這決定了季度末的現金餘額。在我們的轉售業務中，我們通常在上半年花錢購買庫存，下半年轉移庫存，因此也需要這樣做。

And then moving into next year, yeah, I think the core objectives is to or to, one return to growth and two generate sustainable positive cash flow. And those two statements are very closely linked, especially with where EBITDA has been running relative to our interest expense and our CapEx without positive working capital contribution, significant positive cash generation will be difficult to deliver in this environment.

然後進入明年，是的，我認為核心目標是，一是恢復成長，二是產生可持續的正現金流。這兩個聲明是緊密相連的，特別是在沒有積極的營運資本貢獻的情況下，EBITDA 相對於我們的利息支出和資本支出的運作情況，在這種環境下很難實現顯著的正現金產生。

So getting back to the top line growth is key and is the focus as we have in the 2026.

因此，恢復營收成長是關鍵，也是我們 2026 年關注的重點。

Great, thanks, Stan, thanks Larry.

太好了，謝謝，斯坦，謝謝拉里。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. Thank you for your participation in today's conference. You may now disconnect.

問答環節到此結束。感謝大家參加今天的會議。您現在可以斷開連線。