Sabra Health Care REIT Inc (SBRA) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day. My name is Aaron and I will be your conference operator for today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the 2024 Sabra fourth-quarter earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

再會。我叫 Aaron，今天我將擔任您的會議主持人。現在，我歡迎大家參加 2024 年 Sabra 第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指令）

With that, I would like to now turn the call over to Lukas Hartwich, EVP Finance. Mr. Hartwich, please go ahead.

說完這些，我現在想將電話轉給財務執行副總裁 Lukas Hartwich。哈特維奇先生，請繼續。

Thank you and good morning. Before we begin, I want to remind you that we will be making forward-looking statements in our comments and in response to your questions concerning our expectations regarding our future financial position and results of operations, including our earnings guidance for 2025 and our expectations regarding our tenants and operators and our expectations regarding our acquisition, disposition, and investment plans.

謝謝，早安。在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，我們將在我們的評論中以及在回答您有關我們對未來財務狀況和經營業績的預期的問題時做出前瞻性的陳述，包括我們對 2025 年的盈利預測以及我們對我們的租戶和運營商的預期以及我們對我們的收購、處置和投資計劃的預期。

These forward-looking statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks listed in our Form 10-K for the year-ended December 31, 2024, as well as in our earnings press release included as Exhibit 99.1 to the Form 8-K we furnished at the SEC yesterday.

這些前瞻性陳述是基於管理層目前的預期，並受可能導致實際結果大不相同的風險和不確定因素的影響，包括我們截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 10-K 表中列出的風險，以及我們昨天向美國證券交易委員會提供的 8-K 表附件 99.1 中的收益新聞稿中列出的風險。

We undertake no obligation to update our forward-looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances, and you should not assume later in the quarter that the comments we make today are still valid.

我們不承擔更新我們的前瞻性陳述以反映後續事件或情況的義務，您不應在本季度稍後假設我們今天所發表的評論仍然有效。

In addition, references will be made during this call to non-GAAP financial results. Investors are encouraged to review these non-GAAP financial measures, as well as the explanation and reconciliation of these measures to the comparable GAAP results included on the financials page of the Investor Section of our website at cyberhealth.com. Our Form 10-K, earnings release and supplement can also be accessed in the investor section of our website.

此外，本次電話會議中也將提及非公認會計準則財務表現。我們鼓勵投資者查看這些非 GAAP 財務指標，以及這些指標與可比較 GAAP 結果的解釋和對照，這些結果均可在我們網站 cyberhealth.com 投資者部分的財務頁面上找到。您也可以在我們網站的投資者部分查閱我們的 10-K 表格、收益報告和補充文件。

And with that, let me turn the call over to Rick Matros, CEO, President, and Chair of Sabra Healthcare REIT.

現在，請允許我將電話轉給 Sabra Healthcare REIT 的執行長、總裁兼主席 Rick Matros。

Thanks, Lukas. I appreciate it. Thanks everybody for joining the call. We appreciate it. Let me start by sending out love and prayers to the Bibas family. Their bodies will return to Israel today. May the memories of Kfir and Ariel and Shiri be a blessing.

謝謝，盧卡斯。我很感激。感謝大家參加電話會議。我們對此表示感謝。首先，我要向比巴斯一家表達愛與祝福。他們的遺體將在今天返回以色列。願 Kfir、Ariel 和 Shiri 的回憶成為一種祝福。

Thanks for allowing me that.

謝謝你允許我這麼做。

So moving on to Sabra. First, I want to comment on the promotions that we announced this week for Talya, Lukas, and Anna. We're really blessed to have the three of them as part of our team. They're fantastic, and they exemplify everything that's good and important about Sabra and also exemplifies the depth of our team and just really appreciate them and look forward to work with them in the years ahead.

接下來是薩布拉。首先，我想對我們本周宣布的 Talya、Lukas 和 Anna 的晉升措施進行評論。我們非常榮幸能擁有他們三人作為我們團隊的一部分。他們非常棒，他們體現了 Sabra 的所有優點和重要性，也體現了我們團隊的深度，我們非常感謝他們，並期待在未來的幾年與他們合作。

Moving on to the performance of the quarter, Sabra delivered what's been a succession of a number of great quarters in a row. Our Senior Housing and Skills portfolio continue to strengthen. Workforce availability does remain a challenge to the sector, but our tenants have been able to implement strategies to mitigate those challenges, and labor has stabilized. Our shop's same store occupancy was at 80 basis points sequentially, with margins of 20 basis points. Our shop cash NOI was at 17.9% for the quarter.

回顧本季的表現，薩布拉連續幾個季度取得了出色的成績。我們的老年人住房和技能組合不斷加強。勞動力的可用性仍然是該行業面臨的挑戰，但我們的租戶已經能夠實施策略來緩解這些挑戰，勞動力已經穩定下來。我們商店的同店入住率為上一季的 80 個基點，利潤率為 20 個基點。本季我們店舖的現金淨營運利潤為 17.9%。

Our Senior Housing triple net coverage stayed steady at 1.36%. Our Skilled occupancy was at 60 basis points sequentially with skilled mix up 30 basis points. Our EBITDARM coverage hit an all-time high of 2.09. Our Skilled margins are now higher than we've seen in years.

我們的老年住房三重淨覆蓋率維持穩定在1.36%。我們的專業技術人員佔用率連續上升了 60 個基點，專業技術人員混合率上升了 30 個基點。我們的 EBITDARM 覆蓋率達到了 2.09 的歷史新高。我們的技術利潤率現在比過去幾年都要高。

Our top 10 had another strong quarter. In 2025, we will continue to build upon the strategy we successfully executed in 2024 as evidenced by our 7% year-over-year normalized AFFO growth. We would anticipate a higher volume of deals in 2025. The increased volume we started to see before year end has accelerated since with more opportunities than we've seen in quite a long time.

我們的前十名企業又度過了一個強勁的季度。2025 年，我們將繼續鞏固 2024 年成功實施的策略，這從我們 7% 的 AFFO 同比成長中可見一斑。我們預計 2025 年的交易量會更高。我們在年底之前開始看到的交易量成長已經開始加速，而且機會比我們在相當長一段時間內看到的要多。

The opportunities are primarily shop, but we are seeing more skilled opportunities. The fact that we had nothing new to announce this particular quarter shouldn't reflect on what we think we'll get done this year. We fully anticipate to have a busy year and a year that will have higher volumes than we had last year.

機會主要在商店，但我們也看到更多技術性的機會。事實上，我們本季並沒有什麼新消息要宣布，但這不應該影響我們對今年將要完成的事情的預期。我們充分預期今年將是繁忙的一年，而且業務量將比去年更高。

Let me move on to the regulatory and political environment. The political environment's potential impact on our business has been an overhang, but I'd like to make a couple of points. First, the threat of Medicaid cuts. We take that very seriously. While any actions that may be taken are unpredictable, there are natural guard rails in place, and I want to go through some of those guardrails.

讓我繼續談談監管和政治環境。政治環境對我們業務的潛在影響一直是個懸而未決的問題，但我想說幾點。首先，醫療補助削減的威脅。我們對此非常重視。儘管任何可能採取的行動都是不可預測的，但還是存在著天然的護欄，我想突破其中的一些護欄。

As it pertains specifically to Medicaid cuts, Congress has been historically protective of the elderly population, particularly those vulnerable, institutionalized folks. The Medicaid budget, inclusive of matching funds, is critical to the governors of all states, both red and blue. And in fact, the red states have been the greater recipients of Medicare -- of Medicaid access, the expansion of Medicaid access in recent years.

具體到削減醫療補助方面，國會歷來都是保護老年人口的，特別是那些脆弱的、住在機構裡的老人。包括配套資金在內的醫療補助預算對所有州（無論紅州還是藍州）的州長都至關重要。事實上，紅州是醫療保險和醫療補助計劃的更多受益者，近年來醫療補助計劃的擴大也帶來了更多醫療補助。

So in addition to the bipartisan support that we've always had in Congress, the governors of the states, again, both red and blue, will be united to protect the elderly in our facilities and the Medicaid budgets that are so critical to them.

因此，除了國會一直以來給予我們的兩黨支持之外，各州的州長，無論是紅黨還是藍黨，都將團結一致，保護我們機構中的老年人以及對他們至關重要的醫療補助預算。

We have a robust lobbying effort that we expect will be successful and a couple of other things I think to point out in terms of how much in the beginning of the process we're in, the House budget has $880 million of unspecified -- $880 billion of unspecified Medicaid cuts. The Senate version has no Medicaid cuts and overturns the staffing mandate. So you've got opposite sides of the spectrum. You have no specificity on where those Medicaid cuts are, so a very, very long way to go.

我們正在進行強有力的遊說活動，並期望它會取得成功。參議院版本沒有削減醫療補助，並且推翻了人員配備要求。因此，你們得到了光譜的兩端。您沒有具體說明醫療補助削減的具體內容，因此還有很長的路要走。

Finally, as I noted earlier, I think the final guard rail for us is the strength of our portfolio. Having margins, rent coverage, shop margins where they are, with organic growth still to come in in both those segments, I think puts us in a very good position to withstand anything that may happen going forward.

最後，正如我之前提到的，我認為我們最後的護欄是我們投資組合的實力。考慮到我們的利潤率、租金覆蓋率、店面利潤率都保持在現有水平，並且這兩個部門仍將實現有機增長，我認為我們將處於非常有利的地位來抵禦未來可能發生的任何事情。

And with that, I will turn the call over to Talya.

說完這些，我將把電話轉給塔利亞 (Talya)。

Thank you, Rick. Sabra's managed Senior Housing portfolio had another solid quarter. The total managed portfolio, including non-stabilized communities and joint venture assets that share, had sequential revenue growth of 3.5%, cash NOI growth of 5.4%, with marginal expansion of 50 basis points. These statistics demonstrate sequential improvement in operating results that reflect the continued recovery in Sabra's Senior Housing portfolio. In the fourth quarter, we added one property to Sabra's managed portfolio. We see opportunities for external growth setting up well alongside internal growth.

謝謝你，里克。Sabra 管理的老年住房投資組合又度過了一個穩健的季度。包括非穩定社區和共享的合資資產在內的整體管理投資組合收入較上季成長 3.5%，現金淨營運收入成長 5.4%，小幅擴張 50 個基點。這些統計數據表明，經營績效連續改善，反映出 Sabra 老年住房投資組合的持續復甦。第四季度，我們為 Sabra 的管理投資組合增加了一處房產。我們看到，外部成長機會與內部成長機會同步建立。

Sabra's same store managed Senior Housing portfolio, including joint venture assets at share, continued its strong performance this quarter. The key numbers are revenue for the quarter grew 7.4% year over year, with our Canadian community growing revenue by 10.6% in the same period. Both of these results are consistent with the growth statistics we reported last quarter. Fourth-quarter occupancy in our same store portfolio grew by 2.3% year over year, notably our domestic portfolio occupancy grew 2.8% during that period, while our Canadian portfolio grew 1.2% in the same period.

Sabra 的同店管理老年住房投資組合（包括合資資產）本季持續表現強勁。關鍵數字是本季的營收年增 7.4%，而我們加拿大社區的營收同期成長了 10.6%。這兩項結果都與我們上季報告的成長數據一致。第四季度，我們同店入住率年增 2.3%，尤其是國內飯店入住率成長 2.8%，加拿大飯店入住率成長 1.2%。

RevPOR in the fourth quarter of 2024 continued to rise with an increase of 4.5% year over year, while exPOR rose a near 0.6% for the same period. Total expenses for the same store portfolio rose 3.4% in the fourth quarter on a year-over-year basis. Insurance costs have the largest percentage increase among all expenses but represent less than 3% of total expenses. Labor costs, which represents more than 50% of expenses, grew 2.1% in a quarter on a year-over-year basis.

2024年第四季RevPOR持續上漲，年增4.5%，而exPOR同期上漲近0.6%。第四季同店總支出較去年同期成長3.4%。保險費用是所有支出中增幅最大的一項，但佔總支出的不到3%。勞動成本佔總支出的 50% 以上，本季較去年同期成長 2.1%。

Cash NOI for the quarter grew 17.9% year over year, just above last quarter's results. In our US communities, Cash NOI grew 15.2% on a year-over-year basis, while in our Canadian communities, cash NOI for the quarter increased 26.9% over the same period, benefiting from the continuous strong performance of our joint venture properties.

本季現金淨營運收入年增 17.9%，略高於上一季的結果。在我們的美國社區，現金淨營運收入年增15.2%，而在我們的加拿大社區，本季現金淨營運收入年增26.9%，這得益於我們合資物業的持續強勁表現。

Overall, we expect to see revenue growth continue to outpace expense growth as it has in recent quarters, resulting in ongoing growth in cash NOI. Cash NOI margins should continue to expand across the portfolio as the Senior Housing industry builds revenue by balancing occupancy and rate and expenses, especially labor costs remain stable.

總體而言，我們預計收入成長將繼續超過支出成長，就像最近幾季一樣，導致現金淨營運收入持續成長。隨著老年住房行業透過平衡入住率和費率與費用來增加收入，尤其是勞動力成本保持穩定，現金淨營運利潤率應該會繼續在整個投資組合中擴大。

With this as a backdrop, we are seeing significant transaction volume in the Senior Housing space. Virtually all of the deals are structured to transact as managed rather than leased properties. Our cost of capital now allows us to pursue these opportunities which can generally be described as newer, nearly stabilized, senior housing communities that offer care to residents. Our net lease stabilized Senior Housing portfolio also continues to do well with strong rent coverage reflecting the underlying operational recovery.

在此背景下，我們看到老年住房領域的交易量顯著增加。幾乎所有交易都是以管理物業而非租賃物業的方式進行交易的。我們的資本成本現在使我們能夠追求這些機會，這些機會通常可以被描述為較新的、幾乎穩定的、為居民提供護理的老年住宅社區。我們的淨租賃穩定的老年住房投資組合也繼續表現良好，強勁的租金覆蓋率反映了潛在的營運復甦。

And with that, I will turn the call over to Mike Costa, Sabra's Chief Financial Officer.

接下來，我將把電話轉給 Sabra 的財務長 Mike Costa。

Thanks, Talya. For the fourth quarter of 2024, we recognize normalized FFO per share of $0.35 and normalized AFFO per share of $0.36. Normalized AFFO toed $86.9 million this quarter, which is in line with the third quarter. I would like to highlight a few key components of this quarter's earnings.

謝謝，Talya。對於 2024 年第四季度，我們確認每股標準化 FFO 為 0.35 美元，每股標準化 AFFO 為 0.36 美元。本季標準化 AFFO 達到 8,690 萬美元，與第三季持平。我想強調本季收益的幾個關鍵組成部分。

Cash rental income for our triple net portfolio totaled $90 million for the quarter, which was down $1.8 million due to timing of cash basis tenant rents and the impact of asset sales. Cash NOI from our managed Senior Housing portfolio totaled $24.1 million for the quarter, compared to $22.9 million last quarter. This increase was driven primarily by continued sequential same-store growth, as well as the impact of a 92-unit property acquired at the beginning of the fourth quarter.

本季我們三重淨投資組合的現金租金收入總計 9,000 萬美元，由於現金基礎租戶租金的時間表和資產出售的影響，下降了 180 萬美元。我們管理的老年住房投資組合的現金淨營運收入本季總計 2,410 萬美元，而上季為 2,290 萬美元。這一增長主要得益於同店銷售額的持續增長，以及第四季度初收購的 92 個單位的物業的影響。

Recurring cash GNA was $10.2 million this quarter and slightly better than the $10.4 million per quarter run rate we've provided on the last several calls. Normalized FFO per share and normalized AFFO per share were $1.39 and $1.44 respectively for the full year, which represents 7% year-over-year growth. This growth is a result of steady performance improvements in our managed Senior Housing portfolio, continued stability in our triple net portfolio, and disciplined capital allocation, three factors that we expect to contribute to further growth in 2025 as illustrated in our full-year 2025 guidance.

本季經常性現金 GNA 為 1,020 萬美元，略高於我們在過去幾次電話會議中提供的每季 1,040 萬美元的運行率。全年每股標準化 FFO 和每股標準化 AFFO 分別為 1.39 美元和 1.44 美元，年增 7%。這一增長得益於我們管理的老年住房投資組合的業績穩步提升、三重淨投資組合的持續穩定以及嚴格的資本配置，我們預計這三個因素將有助於 2025 年的進一步增長，如我們的 2025 年全年指引所示。

Our full-year 2025 guidance on a diluted per share basis is as follows: net income $0.67 to $0.70, FFO $1.42 to $1.45, normalized FFO $1.43 to $1.46, AFFO $1.47 to $1.50 and normalized AFFO $1.48 to $1.51. At the midpoint, we expect both normalized FFO per share and normalized AFFO per share to increase approximately 4% over 2024. It is important to note that our guidance does not assume any 2025 investment, disposition, or capital markets activity.

我們對 2025 年全年每股攤薄收益的預期如下：淨收入 0.67 美元至 0.70 美元、FFO 1.42 美元至 1.45 美元、正常化 FFO 1.43 美元至 1.46 美元、AFFO 1.47 美元至 1.50 美元以及正常化 AFFOFO 1.48 美元。從中點來看，我們預計每股標準化 FFO 和每股標準化 AFFO 都將比 2024 年增加約 4%。值得注意的是，我們的指導並沒有假設任何 2025 年的投資、處置或資本市場活動。

There are a few other important assumptions in our guide that I would like to point out.

我想指出我們的指南中還有其他一些重要假設。

Cash NOI growth in our triple net portfolio is expected to be low single digit in line with contractual escalators. Additionally, our guidance assumes no additional tenants are placed on cash basis for revenue recognition. Cash NOI growth for our same store manage Senior Housing portfolio is expected to be in the low to mid-teens. As the portfolio gets closer to full recovery, this growth rate may decelerate, and as a result, our guidance assumes the growth rate in the first half of the year will be higher than the growth rate in the second half of the year.

我們的三重淨投資組合中的現金淨營運收入成長率預計將達到個位數低位，與合約增量一致。此外，我們的指導假設沒有額外的租戶以現金方式確認收入。我們同店管理的老年住房投資組合的現金淨營運收入成長率預計在15%到19%之間。隨著投資組合接近全面復甦，這一成長率可能會放緩，因此，我們的指導假設上半年的成長率將高於下半年的成長率。

General and administrative expenses is expected to be approximately $50 million and includes $11 million of stock-based compensation expense. The weighted average share count assumed in our guidance is approximately 240 million and 241 million shares for normalized FFO and normalized AFFO respectively and is in line with our fourth-quarter weighted average share count after adjusting for the timing of ATM share issuances during the quarter.

一般及行政開支預計約 5,000 萬美元，其中包括 1,100 萬美元的股票薪資開支。我們指引中假設的加權平均股數分別為標準化 FFO 和標準化 AFFO 約 2.4 億股和 2.41 億股，這與我們在調整本季 ATM 股票發行時間後的第四季加權平均股數一致。

Now briefly turning to the balance sheet.

現在簡單看一下資產負債表。

Our net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio was 5.27 times as of December 31, 2024, a decrease of 0.03 times from September 30, 2024, and a decrease of nearly half a turn from December 31, 2023. This improvement in our leverage is driven primarily by the continued NOI growth in our managed Senior Housing portfolio, a creative capital recycling, and prudent use of our ATM to fund growth.

截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，我們的淨負債與調整後 EBITDA 比率為 5.27 倍，較 2024 年 9 月 30 日減少 0.03 倍，較 2023 年 12 月 31 日減少近半倍。我們槓桿率的提高主要得益於我們管理的老年住房投資組合的持續淨運營收入增長、創造性的資本循環、以及審慎使用​​ ATM 為增長提供資金。

As of December 31, 2024, we are in compliance with all of our debt covenants and have ample liquidity of $980 million consisting of unrestricted cash and cash equivalents of $60.5 million ,available borrowings under our revolving credit facility of $893.4 million, and $26.1 million related to shares outstanding under Ford sales agreements under our ATM program. As of December 30, 2024, we also had $382.8 million available under the ATM program.

截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，我們遵守了所有債務契約，並擁有 9.8 億美元的充足流動資金，包括 6,050 萬美元的無限制現金和現金等價物、8.934 億美元的循環信貸安排下的可用借款以及 2,610 萬美元與我們 ATM 計劃下福特銷售協議下的流通信貸安排下的可用借款以及 2,610 萬美元與我們 ATM 計劃下福特銷售協議下的流通股相關的資金。截至 2024 年 12 月 30 日，我們在 ATM 計畫下還有 3.828 億美元可用。

Finally, on February 3, 2025, Sabra's Board of Directors declared a quarterly cash dividend of $0.30 per share of common stock. The dividend will be paid on February 28, 2025, to common stockholders of record as the close of business on February 14, 2025. The dividend is adequately covered and represents the payout of 83% of our fourth-quarter normalized AFFO per share.

最後，2025 年 2 月 3 日，Sabra 董事會宣布每股普通股派發 0.30 美元的季度現金股利。股利將於 2025 年 2 月 28 日支付給 2025 年 2 月 14 日營業結束時登記在冊的普通股股東。股息已充分支付，相當於我們第四季每股 AFFO 標準化支出的 83%。

And with that we'll open up lines for Q&A.

我們將開通問答熱線。

(Operator Instructions) [Ferro Graneth], Bank of America.

(操作員指示)[Ferro Graneth]，美國銀行。

Hi, thank you so much. My first question is in regards to the occupancy for your Shop portfolio. Just looking ahead to 2025, what are your thoughts of the pacing of the occupancy, either an acceleration or deceleration, just generally in the Senior Housing space?

你好，非常感謝。我的第一個問題是關於您的商店組合的佔用情況。展望 2025 年，您認為老年住宅領域的入住速度會如何？

It's an interesting question because what we're seeing is operators managing -- balancing out pushing rate versus occupancy because they can't -- not everyone can do both at the same time. And so it's very hard for me to sit here and handicap, which is, how much occupancy is going to increase versus a focus on revenue increases by driving revPOR.

這是一個有趣的問題，因為我們看到的是運營商管理 - 平衡推銷率和入住率，因為他們不能 - 不是每個人都可以同時做到這兩點。因此，我很難在這裡預測入住率將增加多少，而不是專注於提高 revPOR 來增加收入。

We're seeing very strong -- we have seen very strong increases in our Canadian portfolio, which is now seemed to be stable, getting -- ramping down in terms of the rate of growth, but there's still plenty of room in our domestic portfolio, and I think that certainly in IL it will continue to get pushed on the occupancy side in AL. I think there's definitely continued, there'll be continued push, but a desire also to raise revPOR at the same time.

我們看到，我們的加拿大投資組合呈現非常強勁的成長勢頭，目前看來，該投資組合已趨於穩定，成長率正在下降，但我們的國內投資組合仍有很大空間，而且我認為，在伊利諾伊州，其入住率肯定會繼續受到阿拉巴馬州的推動。我認為我們肯定會繼續努力，但同時也希望提高 revPOR。

And, Ferro, the only other thing I would add is, so the way I would look at it is, it's not going to be a deceleration, it's just a function of how much it's going to accelerate, to Talya's point.

而且，費羅，我唯一想補充的是，我的看法是，這不會是減速，而只是加速程度的函數，正如塔利亞所說。

Great, thank you for that. And also, I know you made some comments on the opportunity set that you're seeing in '25 and increasing it, both a mix of shop and the sniffs. I was curious if are you seeing any impacts in pricing when it's coming to sniff, specifically due to the current environment?

太好了，謝謝你。另外，我知道您對您在 25 年看到的機會集做了一些評論，並增加了它，既包括商店的混合，也包括嗅探的混合。我很好奇，當涉及到嗅探時，您是否看到定價受到任何影響，特別是由於當前的環境？

It's interesting you say that we were just at the ECAP conference week 10 days ago. I would say that the transaction market in skilled nursing is robust right now. There is a lot of money chasing deals and opportunities still. Whether lenders and the healthcare REITs are able to continue to participate in that right now in a creative fashion is the big challenge, how to figure that out.

有趣的是，您說我們 10 天前剛參加過 ECAP 會議。我想說的是，目前專業護理的交易市場非常活躍。仍有大量資金追逐交易和機會。如何解決這個問題，貸款人和醫療保健房地產投資信託基金是否能夠繼續以創造性的方式參與其中，這是一個巨大的挑戰。

So it's the strategic buyers that are chasing the money. That's what the issue is from a competitive perspective. So they're valuing these assets not just based on the nursing facility but on the revenue generates for all their businesses. So they're operating entities, so they're able to pay up. So as said, it's been pretty frothy for those guys.

因此，戰略買家正在追逐金錢。從競爭的角度來看，這就是問題所在。因此，他們對這些資產的估值不僅僅是基於護理設施，還基於其所有業務所產生的收入。所以他們是經營實體，所以他們有能力支付。正如所說的那樣，對於那些人來說，這真是相當泡沫化。

John Kilichowski, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的約翰‧基利喬斯基 (John Kilichowski)。

Thank you. Good afternoon. Maybe just to follow up that last question, Rick, just from your opening remarks, it sounds like you feel a lot more confident in the acquisition pipeline, this year versus last year, at least you expect an acceleration.

謝謝。午安.也許只是為了跟進最後一個問題，里克，僅從你的開場白來看，聽起來你對今年的收購管道更加有信心，與去年相比，至少你預計會加速。

I'm curious what you're seeing or what's changed quarter over quarter or from the past couple of months till now that makes you feel confident in your ability to accelerate. These deals given, like you said, it's pretty frothy for some of your competition to bid up on deals.

我很好奇您看到了什麼，或者每個季度或從過去幾個月到現在發生了什麼變化，讓您對自己的加速能力充滿信心。正如您所說，對於您的一些競爭對手來說，這些交易的競標非常激烈。

I'll make a couple of comments and turn it over to Talya.

我會發表幾點評論，然後將其交給 Talya。

First, we're not doing the kinds of deals that some of our competitors are doing. There's been a lot of loan volume, and we're just -- as we've talked about in quarters past and I think, John, we're just not interested in pursuing that unless there's a very specific reason that it's tied to one of our operators. So if you take all that volume away, it changes the picture for everybody.

首先，我們不會像我們的一些競爭對手那樣進行交易。貸款量很大，而我們只是——正如我們在過去幾個季度所談論的那樣，約翰，我想，我們對此不感興趣，除非有非常具體的原因表明它與我們的某個運營商有關。因此，如果你把所有的音量都拿走，它就會改變每個人的畫面。

But just to remind everyone, last year, there were a couple of things. One, the acquisitions acquisition opportunities were just starting to pick up over the course of the year, particularly on the Shop side, and our cost of capital was improving over the course of the year. So this year we enter into it in a much different place with its much higher deal volume, and our cost of capital allows us to do the deals that we would like to do. Talya.

但需要提醒大家的是，去年發生了幾件事。首先，收購機會在一年內剛開始增多，特別是在商店方面，而且我們的資本成本在一年內也在改善。因此，今年我們進入了一個截然不同的市場，交易量更高，而且我們的資本成本使我們能夠進行我們想做的交易。塔利亞。

John, how's this. I'm clearing at least 10 confidentiality agreements a week and we're only in mid-February. There's just a lot of deals coming into the market and there's a few sources for them for the most part. One source is a lot of private equity firms that have assets that have either are at funds that are end-of-life or beyond.

約翰，這個怎麼樣？我每週要清理至少 10 份保密協議，現在才 2 月中旬。市場上有大量交易，但大部分交易都來自幾個來源。其中一個來源是，許多私募股權公司所持有的資產要麼處於基金生命週期的末期，要麼已經超出基金生命週期。

Similar to other kinds of investors, there are P/E funds that have just decided it's the price is good enough now, let's just get out. So we're seeing quite a bit of that because there's been enough of a recovery to recoup and just exit.

與其他類型的投資人類似，有些本益比基金認為，現在的價格已經夠好了，就退出吧。所以我們看到了相當多這樣的情況，因為已經有了足夠的復甦來收回成本並退出。

We're also starting to see green shoots on some interesting refinancing, recapitalization opportunities because three months ago, you recall, four months ago, everyone expected interest rates to be declining, and actually what's happened is that his reversed and interest rates have gone up, in the 10 years at about a 10.5 -- 4.5 now.

我們也開始看到一些有趣的再融資和資本重組機會的曙光，因為三個月前，或者四個月前，每個人都預計利率會下降，而實際上卻發生了逆轉，利率上升了，10 年來大約為 10.5——現在是 4.5。

So there's opportunities to refinance and not do much on the cash in refi to refinance out banks that have loans that sort of disappeared and now we're seeing more refis looking for press equity, mezzanine, debt, etc. So there's sort of a new stream of opportunities coming in. But there's -- the recovery, that sort of you really pull that zoom out here for a sec.

因此，存在再融資的機會，而且不需要在再融資中使用太多現金來為那些已經消失的貸款銀行進行再融資，現在我們看到越來越多的再融資尋求股權、夾層融資、債務等。但是有——恢復，那種你真的把那個放大在這裡拉一秒鐘。

There's been enough recovery that people that have wanted to exit can finally hit a number that feels okay and they can exit, as opposed to continue to carry, and they're really willing to do that and that's really the break point that we've hit over the last few months.

已經有了足夠的復甦，那些想要退出的人最終可以達到一個感覺不錯的數字，他們可以退出，而不是繼續持有，他們真的願意這樣做，而這正是我們在過去幾個月裡達到的斷點。

Okay, got it. I appreciate the detailed answer and then just one more from me on the Shop guide. Earlier in the opening remarks, there was a comment made about the back half maybe experiencing some modest deceleration in that growth just giving it gets harder, the comp year every year.

好的，明白了。我很感謝您的詳細回答，並且我只想就購物指南再給您提一個建議。早些時候，在開場白中，有人評論說下半年可能會經歷適度的成長減速，因為每年的比較都變得越來越困難。

How do we pair that with the fact that, in this business, there should be greater operating leverage as you hit those sort of higher-occupancy marks and you know I think you're at 858 and kind of once you reach those higher-80 marks, we've always heard in this business, you really start to see the operating leverage of the business shine that maybe should allow for more growth, so could you help us sort of pair those two comments together?

我們如何將其與以下事實結合起來：在這個行業中，當您達到更高的入住率時，應該會有更大的運營槓桿，您知道我認為您的入住率是 858，一旦您達到更高的 80 分，我們一直聽說在這個行業中，您真的開始看到業務的運營槓桿閃耀，也許應該允許更多的增長，所以您能幫助我們將這兩個評論結合在一起嗎？

Yeah, I think it's us trying to be a little bit conservative in those assumptions. I think that's a big component of it. I'm not going to hide that fact. But also, I mean, last year we saw quite a bit of occupancy growth, year over year. We're sitting at about 85.5 as of the fourth quarter. If you think that this thing stabilizes in the upper 80s, low 90s, you're starting to get to a point where those occupancy gains aren't going to be as easy to come by versus where they were a year or two ago, right.

是的，我認為我們在這些假設上試圖保守一點。我認為這是其中一個重要的組成部分。我不會隱瞞這個事實。但同時，我的意思是，去年我們看到入住率比去年同期有相當大的成長。截至第四季度，我們的比率約為 85.5。如果您認為這種情況會穩定在 80 多歲到 90 多歲之間，那麼您就會開始意識到與一兩年前相比，入住率的增長將不那麼容易實現了，對吧。

So it's just us trying to be conservative on those assumptions and that growth. Still acknowledging the fact, as you pointed out and as Talya pointed out, that the operating leverage kicking in is something that not only are we seeing right now, but we expect to see even more so as occupancy continues to get closer to that, call it 90% level. So that's effectively it. I mean, I don't think there's much more to look into it besides that.

因此，我們只是試圖對這些假設和成長保持保守態度。仍然承認這一事實，正如您和 Talya 所指出的那樣，經營槓桿的發揮不僅是我們現在看到的，而且我們預計還會看到更多的經營槓桿，因為入住率將繼續接近這一水平，即 90% 的水平。事實上就是這樣。我的意思是，我認為除此之外沒有什麼可研究的了。

Your point is correct, John.

你的觀點是正確的，約翰。

Yeah, that's why I noted that export has increased 0.6%, which is essentially it's essentially flat, which goes to operating leverage.

是的，這就是我為什麼指出出口成長了 0.6% 的原因，基本上是持平的，這涉及經營槓桿。

Nick Joseph with City Research.

城市研究公司的尼克約瑟夫 (Nick Joseph)

Hey there, it's Michael Griffin here with Nick. Rick, I think in your opening remarks you talked a little bit about some strategies that your operators have implemented to effectively mitigate costs. Can you maybe expand on that a bit. What some of these initiatives could be and is there the opportunity within operators in your portfolio to share best practices just given, cost mitigation is going to remain to be a focus.

嘿，我是尼克，我是麥可葛里芬。里克，我想你在開場白中談到了你的運營商為有效降低成本而實施的一些策略。您能否稍微詳細闡述一下這一點？這些措施可能是什麼？

I think it's a couple of things. One, in terms of recruiting. They've embraced digital marketing for recruiting in very many cases, which has been really helpful getting just more people into the door to be considered. The other is, I think there's been a complete revamping of the onboarding processes with all of our operators. So the onboarding process has been lengthened. There typically are mentors that are assigned to new employees, and I think that's really helped get some traction with longevity.

我認為有幾件事。一、在招募方面。在很多情況下，他們都採用數位行銷來招聘，這確實很有幫助，可以吸引更多的人來考慮。另一方面，我認為我們所有營運商的入職流程都進行了徹底的改進。因此入職流程被延長了。通常會為新進員工指派導師，我認為這確實有助於延長員工的任期。

So I think those are the two main things we saw in 2022, a rebasing of wages and so that's kind of normalized since then. So you know we've always competed with the service sector, but I think the rebasing of the wages during COVID has made our operators a more attractive destination as opposed to other service kinds of positions. So it's really those things.

所以我認為這是我們在 2022 年看到的兩件主要事情，即薪資重新調整，從那時起這種情況就逐漸正常化了。所以你知道我們一直在與服務業競爭，但我認為，與其他服務類型的職位相比，COVID 期間工資的重新調整使我們的運營商成為一個更具吸引力的目的地。所以確實就是那些東西。

Yeah, I know that's a helpful context there. I appreciate it. And then maybe just going back to the acquisition pipeline, Talya. You talked a bit about looking at more stabilized product that had a care component. Should we read into that that the pipeline is tilted maybe more toward AL relative to IL within the managed portfolio and you know what kind of yields or you know IRRs are you underwriting to for prospective transactions?

是的，我知道這是一個有幫助的背景。我很感激。然後也許只是回到收購管道，Talya。您談到了尋找含有護理成分的更穩定的產品。我們是否應該認為，在管理的投資組合中，通路可能更傾向於 AL 而不是 IL，您知道您為未來交易承保的收益率或 IRR 是多少嗎？

So I'd say that we're seeing, I think that the assets with care components are by definition doing better now. So recovery has really affected them now because they're able to charge rate. That's part of -- as opposed to necessarily drive to maximum occupancy. Of course they have a higher cost structure, but there's been a lot of those built. Oftentimes they're IL, AL memory care, by the way, so that is in fact what we're seeing mostly. We are seeing some standalone IL but not that much.

因此我想說，我們看到，我認為含有護理成分的資產現在表現得更好了。因此，復甦現在確實對他們產生了影響，因為他們能夠收取費用。這是其中的一部分——而不是必然追求最大入住率。當然，它們的成本結構更高，但已經建造了很多。順便說一下，他們通常是 IL、AL 記憶護理，所以這實際上是我們主要看到的。我們看到了一些獨立的 IL，但不是很多。

And I'm sorry, what was the second part of the question? (multiple speakers)

抱歉，問題的第二部分是什麼？（多位發言者）

Just from your yields or IRR is what you're underwriting.

您只需從收益或 IRR 來承保即可。

We're still seeing deals that going in might be in 7 to 7.5, but stabilize it above that, and that's still happening.

我們仍然看到交易量可能在 7 到 7.5 之間，但穩定在此之上，而且這種情況仍在發生。

And I would also just note or reiterate really strategically we are focused on increasing our Shop exposure, but within our Shop exposure to your point, your question, you should see over time our AL increase in our IL decrease, which should help our growth numbers as well.

我還要指出或重申的是，從戰略上講，我們專注於增加我們的商店曝光率，但在我們的商店曝光率範圍內，對於您的問題，您應該看到隨著時間的推移，我們的 AL 增加，而 IL 減少，這也應該有助於我們的增長數字。

Alan Wurschmidt, KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc.

Alan Wurschmidt，KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc.

Hey everybody, it's Austin Wurschmidt here. Just going back to your comment about kind of full recovery in the Shop portfolio, my sense was that was an occupancy comment. I guess can you kind of share where margins and NOI stack up relative to occupancy and what kind of the full recovery and future upside entails for those metrics as well.

大家好，我是 Austin Wurschmidt。回到您關於商店投資組合全面復甦的評論，我的感覺是這是一個佔用率的評論。我想您能否分享一下利潤率和淨營運收入相對於入住率的變化情況，以及這些指標的全面復甦和未來上行空間如何。

I think I went through where we are today in my comments, I think there's visibility on getting somewhere close to where we were pre-pandemic here now in Senior Housing.

我想我在我的評論中已經說明了我們今天的狀況，我認為現在老年住房的狀況有望接近疫情前的水平。

Got it. Are there any --

知道了。有沒有--

Particularly in those assets where you can really drive rate, which is based on location, etc., vintage, things like that.

特別是在那些你能夠真正推動利率的資產中，這些利率是基於地點、年份等因素的。

I mean, are there any regions or operators specifically that have already surpassed, I guess, the full recovery point and it would give you even more confidence about the balance of the portfolio, being able to grow, again, beyond, what you're deeming to be kind of full recovery.

我的意思是，具體有哪些地區或營運商已經超越了全面復甦點，這將使您對投資組合的平衡更加有信心，能夠再次實現超越您認為的全面復甦的水平。

I think we definitely have operators both in our Senior Housing and our skilled portfolio that have surpassed where they were pre-pandemic and so we look to do more deals with them, but our portfolio has gotten so strong and a lot of that.

我認為，我們的老年住房和技術投資組合中的運營商肯定已經超越了疫情前的水平，因此我們希望與他們進行更多交易，但我們的投資組合已經變得非常強大，而且還有很多這樣的運營商。

Happened with some of the steps that we took during the pandemic that all of our operators are on that path. Some are just further ahead than others, but we're at the point right now where we don't have stragglers that we had pre-pandemic, and it's also why we've been as selective as we've been in. In terms of the deals that we've done both in terms of market operator and the age of the assets that we're buying.

我們在疫情期間採取的一些措施，我們所有的營運商都走上了這條道路。只是有些國家比其他國家領先一步，但我們現在的狀況是，我們已經不再有疫情前的落後者了，這也是為什麼我們一直如此挑剔。就我們所做的交易而言，既包括市場運營商，也包括我們購買的資產的年限。

So we think with everything that we did last year and actually we had a lot of volume actually in 2022 as well, we've really enhanced the quality of the portfolio from a market asset and operating perspective.

因此，我們認為，透過去年我們所做的一切，以及 2022 年我們的交易量實際上也很大，從市場資產和營運的角度來看，我們確實提高了投資組合的品質。

And then just last one, Rick, you mentioned you expect to do more investments this year relative to last year. I mean how significant of a year over year increase could we see given all the reasons that Talia highlighted around, what's going on in private equity and with, higher interest rates today?

然後最後一個問題，瑞克，你提到你預計今年的投資將比去年更多。我的意思是，考慮到塔利亞所強調的所有原因、私募股權的現狀以及如今較高的利率，我們能看到同比增長有多大？

Before the pandemic, if you exclude some of the really big moves that we made, we typically did several 100 million a year and we'd like to get, I'm not going to predict that we'll exactly be there this year, but that's certainly a goal for us is to get back to the level of investments that we did on a routine basis prior to the pandemic.

在疫情爆發之前，如果不考慮我們所做的一些真正重大的舉措，我們通常每年會投入幾億美元，我們不能預測今年我們是否能達到這個數字，但這肯定是我們的目標，即恢復到疫情爆發前常規投資的水平。

Vikram Malhotra, Mizuho.

瑞穗的維克拉姆·馬洛特拉 (Vikram Malhotra)。

Hey, this is Georgie on from Vikram. Just on the external growth pipeline, can you just talk about what does the competition look like for stabilized assets in the Senior Housing?

嘿，我是 Vikram 的 Georgie。僅就外部成長管道而言，您能談談老年住房穩定資產的競爭情況如何嗎？

Mostly the healthcare rates for the nicer assets, the institutional quality assets, I'd say. Below that kind of quality level, I think you've probably got some high net worth. We're not seeing private equity in the states right now, though there's starting to be rumblings of their coming back. It's hard to be a levered buyer right now. It's just not enough spread between the cost of debt and cap rate.

我認為，醫療保健利率主要是優質資產，即機構品質資產。在這種品質水準以下，我認為你可能擁有一些高淨值。儘管已經開始有私募股權投資回歸的風潮，但目前我們在美國還沒有看到私募股權投資的蹤影。目前，成為槓桿買家非常困難。債務成本和資本化率之間的差距不夠大。

That's how I just have one more on the Shop portfolio. Can you just provide more color on what January rent bumps were compared to last year?

這就是我在商店組合中又多了一個的東西。您能否提供更多詳細信息，說明與去年相比一月份的租金上漲情況？

I don't have the exact numbers for the portfolio with me, but it's been, it's sort of in the 4% to 5% range is what we're seeing in our larger operators. And they're achieving those.

我沒有投資組合的確切數字，但我們較大的營運商的投資組合比例大概在 4% 到 5% 之間。他們正在實現這些目標。

Yeah, and the other thing to point out too is that rent bumps aren't all done on January. Right, it varies operator to operator, right.

是的，還有一點要指出的是，租金上漲並不是都在一月完成的。是的，每個操作員都有所不同，對吧。

Some do them on an anniversary date of the lease. Some do them in January. It varies. Mike's right.

有些人會在租賃週年紀念日那天這樣做。有些人在一月就這樣做。它是因人而異的。麥克是對的。

Juan Sanabria, BMO Capital Markets.

Juan Sanabria，BMO資本市場。

Hi, thanks for the time. Just hoping you could talk a little bit about the infrastructure, the platform, guidance seems to call for kind of flat G&A, so just curious how you guys are investing in the system that it seems to be a strength of the reach to have the platforms and the capital to invest behind the business, so presumably that the moat will get wider as that happens over time. And I'm just curious on your latest initiatives around being a leader in Shop.

你好，謝謝您抽出時間。只是希望您能稍微談一下基礎設施、平台，指導似乎要求某種平穩的 G&A，所以我很好奇你們是如何投資這個系統的，這似乎是擁有平台和資本來投資業務的優勢，所以隨著時間的推移，護城河可能會變得更寬。我只是好奇您作為商店領導者的最新舉措。

Yeah, I mean, look, we've been in Shop for a while now, and we established the infrastructure, several years ago and we started, our foray into that. So from a systems perspective, from a technology perspective, from a personnel perspective, those are pretty well-established to the point we're adding additional scale in there. Any additional costs are going to be really incremental. It's not anything major to take on.

是的，我的意思是，你看，我們已經在 Shop 工作了一段時間了，幾年前我們就建立了基礎設施，然後就開始了我們的嘗試。因此，從系統角度、技術角度和人員角度來看，這些都已經相當完善，我們可以在其中增加額外的規模。任何額外成本都會真正增加。這並不是什麼大事。

Larger portfolios or more operators, whatever it may be, and that's where probably the biggest impact I would say from a G&A perspective would be on the Shop side. To the extent there's any triple net, we could absorb that without adding any headcount, realistically, so does that answer your question one.

無論是哪種情況，更大的投資組合或更多的運營商，從一般及行政管理角度來看，我認為最大的影響可能是在商店方面。如果存在三重淨利潤，我們可以在不增加員工的情況下吸收這些利潤，從現實角度來說，這回答了你的第一個問題。

And I would just add one that from a systems perspective we're continually upgrading and improving our systems so that the technology that we have in place continues to get better, allows us to provide different levels of support to our operators to interact differently, to have more visibility, to have more predictability as we start building artificial intelligence capabilities into our systems.

我只想補充一點，從系統角度來看，我們在不斷升級和改進我們的系統，以便我們現有的技術不斷進步，使我們能夠為我們的操作員提供不同級別的支持，以不同的方式進行交互，具有更高的可見性，在我們開始在我們的系統中構建人工智能功能時具有更高的可預測性。

You said the key word there, just curious on the '25 you talked about acquisitions ramping up, but curious if there's any dispositions you had some sales in the fourth quarter which we didn't necessarily model, so just curious how we should be thinking about sales and dispositions for '25.

您說了關鍵字，只是好奇您談到的'25'收購正在增加，但好奇您在第四季度是否有一些銷售處置，我們不一定對其進行建模，所以只是好奇我們應該如何考慮'25'的銷售和處置。

The dispositions that we had in the quarter sort of ordinary course of business, and I think what we talked about in the last several quarters that we had one sniff portfolio that's still in the process of being sold. That's about $50 million. Other than that, what we've said is that everything else is ordinary corporate business and the ordinary course of business for us historically has been sort of $50 million to $100 million plus a year in this position, so there was nothing kind of unusual about it and you can tell by the number of facilities in what was a relatively small proceed number that they weren't producing very much.

我們在本季進行的處置屬於正常業務流程，我想我們在過去幾季中談過，我們有一個嗅探投資組合，仍在出售過程中。這約為5000萬美元。除此之外，我們說過，其他一切都是正常的公司業務，而我們歷史上的正常業務範圍是每年 5,000 萬到 1 億美元以上，因此沒有什麼不尋常的，你可以從設施數量看出來，這些設施的收益相對較少，產量並不高。

Richard Anderson, Wedbush.

理查德·安德森，韋德布希。

Thanks, good morning out there. So I want to talk about --

謝謝，早安。所以我想談談--

Richard, I just want to first say to you that a few quarters ago, three quarters ago I believe, you said, can you foresee the day when your coverage is over 2 times.

理查德，我首先想告訴你，幾個季度前，我相信三個季度前，你說，你能預見到你的覆蓋率超過 2 倍的那一天嗎？

So that's all the questions I have. No, just kidding. So on the pipeline, I want to talk about the accretive dilutive math on that. Like you look at your trading at around 12 times forward AFFO, that's like an 8-ish type of AFFO yield. I don't know if you think about it that way, but do you, would you say your break even in the first year of investment and grow from there, or I'm just curious how you think about that from a creative dilution standpoint.

這就是我所有的問題。不，只是開玩笑。因此，在管道上，我想談談其增值稀釋數學。就像您看到的遠期 AFFO 交易額約為 12 倍一樣，這相當於 8 左右的 AFFO 收益率。我不知道您是否這樣想過，但是您會說在投資的第一年就實現收支平衡並從那裡開始增長嗎，或者我只是好奇您從創造性稀釋的角度如何看待這一點。

Yeah, I mean, based on where our stock is at right now as well as where we can issue debt out or you know using any kind of leverage. Somewhere in the low- to mid-sevens on a going-in yield is breakeven or slightly accretive. We also --

是的，我的意思是，基於我們現在的股票狀況以及我們可以發行債務或使用任何形式的槓桿。進入收益率在 7% 的低點至中位數之間，可以實現盈虧平衡或略有增長。我們也--

You mean a blend, you need to blend it low to mid, yeah.

您的意思是混合，您需要從低到中混合，是的。

Yeah, the blend of equity at today's prices plus debt, right? We think we could go in with initial yield to somewhere, low- to mid-7s and be breakeven, slightly accretive. But like you mentioned earlier, there's also opportunities that we're looking at where it's around that level, but there is also some growth baked into it. So it's not only just looking at that initial yield but looking at the long-term growth profile and how that compares to the expectations built into our cost of capital.

是的，以今天的價格計算的股權加上債務的混合，對嗎？我們認為，我們可以以初始收益率達到 7% 左右的低位到中位數水平，實現收支平衡並略有增值。但就像您之前提到的，我們也在尋找處於這一水平附近的機會，但其中也包含一些成長空間。因此，不僅要看初始收益率，還要看長期成長狀況以及與資本成本中的預期相比如何。

Okay, so Michael, when if you're to do $500 million this coming year, would it be safe to say half of that is funded with equity or more or less?

好的，邁克爾，如果您明年要融資 5 億美元，是否可以肯定地說其中有一半或更多或更少的資金是由股權資助的？

The numbers I've been throwing out usually is like 60%, 40% equity debt just to kind of keep our leverage where it's at or around 5 times.

我通常給出的數字是 60%、40% 的股權債務，只是為了將我們的槓桿率保持在 5 倍左右。

Okay. And then Rick, back to you, big picture, you mentioned, the spread between the House and the Senate in terms of Medicaid, unspecified, who knows exactly what is actually in those that line of thinking from the House perspective. But if it's so wide like that, I mean, is there a concern that at least there will be some of it? I mean, to find a middle ground between those two governing bodies. I'm just curious how we get through this and avoid any kind of disruption at all.

好的。然後里克，回到你的話題上，你提到的大局，眾議院和參議院在醫療補助方面的差距，沒有具體說明，誰知道從眾議院的角度來看，他們的思路到底是什麼。但是如果它真的這麼寬的話，我的意思是，是否至少會存在一些問題？我的意思是在這兩個管理機構之間找到一個中間立場。我只是好奇我們如何度過這一難關並避免任何形式的干擾。

Fair question. So and this is probably not going to sound great because the numbers are so enormous. Anything over a trillion would be some cause to worry. If anything under a trillion (technical difficulty)

公平地問一下。所以這可能聽起來不太好，因為數字太龐大了。任何超過一兆的數字都會引發擔憂。如果低於一兆（技術難度）

Ladies and gentlemen, we have lost our main speaker line. Please hold and we'll work to get them back. I'll put you back into hold music until, we have them back on with us. Give us second, we'll be right back on. Thank you.

女士們、先生們，我們失去了主講嘉賓的聯繫。請稍候，我們會努力將它們找回來。我會為你播放等候音樂，直到我們重新與他們聯繫。請稍等，我們馬上回來。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, we really appreciate your patience here. Richard, I know you were in the middle of your question here. We'll bring you back up onto the stage. Go ahead.

女士們、先生們，我們非常感謝你們的耐心。理查德，我知道你正在問這個問題。我們會讓你重返舞台。前進。

Okay, well, Rick was in the middle of answering the question. I guess I broke the internet with it, but you were saying, Rick, on this.

好的，里克正在回答這個問題。我想我用它來破壞了互聯網，但是你卻說，里克，關於這個。

So what I was saying was you're talking about really big numbers here. If the number is over a trillion, it creates a lot of concern regardless of how the Medicaid cuts are giving out. So it gets better, as big as the $880 billion sounds, but since you're starting it with 0 at the Senate and $880 billion at the House, that number's going to come down. Hopefully it goes away, particularly when the governors start getting involved in the fight, but it's going to come down, so.

所以我想說的是，你在這裡談論的是一個非常大的數字。如果這個數字超過一萬億，無論醫療補助削減如何，都會引起很多擔憂。因此情況會變得更好，儘管 8800 億美元聽起來很大，但由於參議院的預算為 0，而眾議院的預算為 8800 億美元，所以這個數字會下降。希望這種情況會逐漸消失，特別是當州長開始介入鬥爭時，但這種情況會逐漸減少，所以。

Given how strong the portfolio's performance is, with rent coverage and the margins and it's continuing to improve and still got room to grow ahead of it, I think that we'll be okay, even if there's some kind of a hit. So does that answer your question?

考慮到投資組合的表現如此強勁，租金覆蓋率和利潤率都在持續改善，並且仍有成長空間，我認為即使受到某種打擊，我們也不會有事。這回答了你的問題嗎？

Yeah, it does. And how would you parlay that into Medicare. Different forces at work, but just curious.

是的。您將如何利用這一點來促進醫療保險？不同的力量在起作用，但只是好奇。

Yeah, it's different forces at work, I think. Look, everything's being tested right now at the courts. They can't just do this if they want to do it. They may try to, but they can't just do it. There's statutory issues and Congress has to be involved, so.

是的，我認為這是不同的力量在運作。你看，現在法庭正在審理一切。他們不能只靠自己想做就能做得到。他們可能會嘗試，但他們無法做到。存在法定問題，國會必須參與，所以。

I actually think that I have less concerns about Medicare than I do about some kind of hit on Medicaid even though I'm more optimistic and pessimistic about Medicaid or certainly the overall impact of it.

實際上，我認為我對醫療保險的擔憂少於我對醫療補助受到某種打擊的擔憂，儘管我對醫療補助或其整體影響更加樂觀和悲觀。

Okay. And much respect (multiple speakers)

好的。非常尊重（多位發言者）

As well as I do. I mean, you're all over this kind of stuff, politically like I am. I mean, we're living in a time that's completely unpredictable, right? So, I just tend to fall back on the bipartisan support, the lobbying efforts, the fact that this this statutory, you've got states involved as well as both chambers of Congress, it's just not going to be that simple to hurt people who are most dependent upon government aid.

和我一樣。我的意思是，你對這類事情很感興趣，就像我一樣，在政治上也是如此。我的意思是，我們生活在一個完全不可預測的時代，對嗎？所以，我傾向於依靠兩黨的支持和遊說努力，事實上，這項法定法案涉及到各州以及參眾兩院，傷害那些最依賴政府援助的人並不是那麼容易的。

Fair enough. And just want to say much respect to your opening comments on this call, by the way. Thanks everybody.

很公平。順便說一句，我非常尊重您在這次電話會議上的開場發言。謝謝大家。

Alec Feygin, Baird Equity Research.

貝爾德股票研究公司的亞歷克費金 (Alec Feygin)。

Hello and thanks for taking my question. I'll echo what Rich said, respect to those opening comments and to your point the world's unpredictable in so many different facets. But my question is, do you expect specialty and behavior coverage to improve as the year progresses?

您好，感謝您回答我的問題。我同意 Rich 所說的話，尊重那些開場白，也尊重你的觀點，即世界在許多不同方面都是不可預測的。但我的問題是，您是否預計隨著時間的推移，專業和行為覆蓋範圍會有所改善？

I think it's just going to kind of meander around where it is. A lot of the fluctuations on the behavioral hospitals we have, which it's just a really dynamic business. The coverage is fantastic, so there's no sort of concerning trends, but yeah, I think it's just going to kind of meander around where it is. I don't think it's going to be consequential.

我認為它只是在原地蜿蜒前進。我們的行為醫院存在著許多波動，這是一個非常有活力的行業。報導很精彩，所以沒有什麼令人擔憂的趨勢，但是是的，我認為它只是在原地徘徊。我認為這不會有什麼後果。

Got it and kind of changing that, but what is the current size of the cash basis tenant base, and then did the dispositions in the quarter include tenants on cash basis?

明白了，並且正在改變這一點，但現金基礎租戶群的當前規模是多少，然後本季的處置是否包括現金基礎的租戶？

So in in terms of the cash base tenant base, I like to quantify that and I put it in two buckets. There's really the ones that we're really focused on are the ones that are not paying us full rent and paying us random amounts, month to month, quarter to quarter. And that component of the cash basis tenant pool is a couple percentage points, I don't know, it's less than 5% of our NOI.

因此，就現金基礎租戶基礎而言，我喜歡將其量化，並將其分為兩類。我們真正關注的是那些沒有向我們支付全額租金，而是每個月、每季隨機支付金額的租客。而現金基礎租戶池的這一組成部分佔幾個百分點，我不知道，它不到我們淨營運收入的 5％。

And regarding your question on some of the sales that we had in the quarter, yes, that was related to some of our cash base tenants.

關於您提到的我們本季的部分銷售情況，是的，這與我們的部分現金基礎租戶有關。

Michael Stroyeck, Green Street.

邁克爾·斯特羅耶克，綠街。

Thanks and good morning. Maybe one on the transaction market, is there any recurring theme on potential deals that the company has looked at and then ultimately passed on, particularly within Shop? Is it also just a function of price like what you're seeing with sniff transactions or maybe something else that leads to not closing on these deals?

謝謝，早安。也許是一個關於交易市場的問題，公司是否考慮過但最終放棄的潛在交易，特別是在 Shop 內部？這是否也只是價格的一個函數，就像您在嗅探交易中看到的那樣，或者是其他導致這些交易無法完成的因素？

I think there are a couple of characteristics that we're focused on. One is the quality of the asset itself, of the real estate, and then that we look at vintage of the asset as well. So that's one thing. We look at the market and we look at frankly, long-term viability of the assets. Those are those are critical factors. The Shop, what we're seeing now generally is high-quality assets, and it's an opportunity, as Rick described earlier, to improve our portfolio over time, to add really high-quality assets.

我認為我們將重點放在幾個特點。一是資產本身的質量，也就是房地產的質量，其次我們還要看資產的年份。這是一回事。我們關注市場，坦白說，我們關注資產的長期可行性。這些是關鍵因素。我們現在看到的 The Shop 通常是高品質資產，正如 Rick 之前所描述的，這是一個機會，可以隨著時間的推移改善我們的投資組合，增加真正高品質的資產。

I guess on the high-quality assets that that you're bidding on, is it just a function of, different cap rates that you're ascribing versus where the deals ultimately trade at?

我猜，對於您所競標的高品質資產，它是否僅僅是您所賦予的不同資本化率與交易最終交易價格之間的函數？

I think the band of cap rates is fairly narrow. Oftentimes the seller or the operator, have an ability to sway where, who the buyer will be. And so relationships come to bear here. We're also seeing off-market deals where relationships are definitely part of the discussion.

我認為資本化率的區間相當狹窄。通常情況下，賣家或經營者有能力決定買家的地點和買家的身分。所以關係在這裡發揮作用。我們也看到場外交易中的關係肯定是討論的一部分。

Got it. Okay, and then maybe one just on sniff coverage levels, the magnitude of the sniff coverage increase during the quarter seemed fairly outsized relative to the actual occupancy gains we saw. Can you just help us understand what drove such a healthy step up in coverages?

知道了。好的，然後也許僅就嗅探覆蓋率而言，相對於我們看到的實際入住率成長而言，本季嗅探覆蓋率增加的幅度似乎相當大。您能否幫助我們理解是什麼推動了覆蓋率如此健康地提高？

Yeah, I think it's where occupancy kicked in. It was a big jump in terms of the impact on operating leverage. Really kind of as simple as that. Medicaid too. Yeah, that's the Medicaid increases have kicked in and then the market basket, the market basket as well. Oh no, not the markets, I'm sorry, but the Medicaid increases that kicked in in July and August really had the biggest impact. So it's this next quarter since we report a quarter arrears that you'll also see impact from the Medicare market basket.

是的，我認為這就是佔用率開始發揮作用的地方。從對經營槓桿的影響來看，這是一個巨大的飛躍。確實就是這麼簡單。還有醫療補助。是的，這就是醫療補助增加的影響，然後是市場籃子，市場籃子也是。喔不，抱歉，不是市場，而是七月和八月開始實施的醫療補助增加確實產生了最大的影響。因此，自從我們報告季度欠款以來，下個季度您還會看到醫療保險市場籃子的影響。

Aaron Hecht, JMP Securities.

JMP證券的Aaron Hecht。

Thank you. I was just looking at your loan book. It looks like it's around $400 million. Sounds like that's not an area you want to be focused on, and the maturity date ranges are pretty wide. Is there anything coming up soon in terms of maturities, and do you expect those to convert to ownership, or do you just recycle out of those as they come to?

謝謝。我剛才正在看你的貸款帳簿。看起來大約是 4 億美元。聽起來這不是您想要關注的領域，而且到期日範圍相當廣泛。就到期而言，是否有任何即將到期的債務？

So there's nothing imminent in that loan pool. I think individually there are some that we'd like to refine, redeploy the capital and others that where we have an opportunity to buy, in which case we'll consider that when that window opens. There's nothing really actionable there at this at this moment.

因此，該貸款池中不存在任何緊急事項。我認為，個別而言，我們希望改進一些項目，重新部署資本，其他一些項目我們有機會購買，在這種情況下，我們會在窗口打開時考慮。目前，還沒有任何真正可採取的行動。

Okay, yeah, I was really looking at the three mortgage loans and it looks like the first maturity date's in '26, and that's the big bucket. Is there a big maturity in '26, or is that more back end weighted?

好的，是的，我確實在看這三筆抵押貸款，看看第一個到期日是在 26 年，這是一個大問題。26 年是否已成熟，或是否更重視後端？

There's a maturity at the end of '26. So it's essentially two years away, just under two years away.

26 年末，一切趨於成熟。所以基本上還有兩年的時間，或者說不到兩年的時間。

Built the size on that. It's the major, yeah, about $300 million it's the majority of that bucket.

在此基礎上建立了尺寸。是的，這是個大數目，大約 3 億美元，佔了其中的大部分。

CRCA loan. So that I mean that that discussion is going to be that they want to take us out, which would be fine, that they want to have a conversation about flipping it into a triple net, we might have that conversation as well, so that one just remains to be seen. We're happy with how things are going there, the loads performing, so we'll just sort of play as it goes along.

CRCA 貸款。所以我的意思是，討論的內容是他們想要把我們帶出去，這很好，他們想要討論將其轉變為三重網，我們也可能會進行這樣的討論，所以這一點還有待觀察。我們對那裡的進展、負載表現感到滿意，所以我們會按照進展進行。

(Operator Instructions) Omotayo Okusanya, Deutsche Bank.

(操作員指示) Omotayo Okusanya，德意志銀行。

Good afternoon, everyone. Great comments at the beginning of the call to share it. So speaking on this topic of Medicare and Medicaid. What are your thoughts around, if they are eventually to get cut are they kind of more inactive shift program versus kind of classic Medicare, Medicaid or on the skilled nursing side, is that all kind of still depend on this trillion dollar number you're talking about or how do you kind of think about that probability?

大家下午好。通話開始時分享了很棒的評論。談論醫療保險和醫療補助這個話題。您怎麼看，如果這些計劃最終被削減，那麼它們是否會成為一種更加不活躍的輪班計劃，而不是傳統的醫療保險、醫療補助或專業護理計劃，這些是否仍然取決於您所說的這個萬億美元的數字，或者您如何看待這種可能性？

Say it one more time, Tay, you're breaking up a little bit.

再說一次，泰，你有點分手了。

Sure, so I was talking about again the potential Medicare and Medicaid cuts that we've been discussing on the call and just thinking through that, in terms of the potential amount, is it possible in any way that all the cuts just kind of boil down more towards like the CHIP program or, than anything else versus, cuts to Medicaid that will impact your nursing, like how do you kind of handicap probability of something like that happening?

當然，所以我再次談論了我們在電話中討論過的潛在的醫療保險和醫療補助削減，並且只是考慮了一下，就潛在金額而言，是否有可能所有的削減都歸結為像 CHIP 計劃這樣的計劃，或者比其他任何事情都更傾向於削減醫療補助，這將影響您的護理，比如您如何預測發生這種情況的概率？

Yeah, so I think it's a fair question, and I think the answer is yes, there are other programs out there like CHIP's Medicaid expansion generally that probably get targeted first. Some of the home base and community programs get targeted first as well. So yeah, I think that's a fair statement which goes to some of why we feel at least comfortable that even if something does happen, it won't be anything that sort of creates real damage to the space or the portfolio.

是的，所以我認為這是一個公平的問題，我認為答案是肯定的，還有其他項目，例如 CHIP 的醫療補助擴展計劃，可能首先成為目標。一些家庭基地和社區計劃也首先成為目標。所以，是的，我認為這是一個公平的說法，這也解釋了為什麼我們至少感到安心，即使真的發生了什麼事情，也不會對這個領域或投資組合造成真正的傷害。

And the other thing I didn't mention though in my opening remarks is depending on What the final number is and what sectors get hit, you may see sectors kind of uniting together in their lobbying efforts. There may be some common cause here as well, so I'm not even sure that you'll see lobbying efforts that are completely independent of each other. So in the sectors from organizations like AARP, there's going to be a lot of activity here around any potential cuts that affect the indigent and the elderly.

不過，我在開場白中沒有提到的另一件事是，這取決於最終的數字以及哪些行業會受到影響，你可能會看到各個行業聯合起來進行遊說。這裡可能也有一些共同的原因，所以我甚至不確定你會看到完全彼此獨立的遊說活動。因此，在美國退休人員協會 (AARP) 等組織的各個部門，將會大力推廣可能影響窮人和老年人的資金削減措施。

That's helpful. I have one other one. I know it's still pretty early, but any thoughts at this point about how Robert Kennedy may want to run CMS and what the implications are for the industry.

這很有幫助。我還有另外一個。我知道現在還為時過早，但現在您對於羅伯特肯尼迪可能如何運營 CMS 以及這對行業有何影響有什麼想法嗎？

I have zero idea how to predict anything about this dude. But ask Elon, maybe he's got more insight than I did.

我完全不知道該如何預測這個傢伙的一切。但問問埃隆，也許他比我更有見解。

Thank you for your questions. We have no further questions at this time, so I'd like to turn the call back over to Mr. Matros.

感謝您的提問。我們目前沒有其他問題，因此我想將電話轉回給馬特羅斯先生。

Thanks everybody for your time today. I appreciate the support as always, and we'll look forward to seeing many of you at the Citi conference. Have a good day.

感謝大家今天的寶貴時間。我感謝大家一如既往的支持，我們期待在花旗會議上見到大家。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you and ladies and gentlemen that will end Sabra's 2024 fourth-quarter earnings call. Have a great rest of your day. Take care.

謝謝大家，女士們，先生們，Sabra 2024 年第四季財報電話會議到此結束。祝您今天剩餘的時間過得愉快。小心。