Safe Bulkers Inc (SB) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

TThank you for standing by, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Safe Bulkers conference call on the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2023, financial results. We have with us Mr. Polys Hajioannou, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Dr. Loukas Barmparis, President; and Mr. Konstantinos Adamopoulos, Chief Financial Officer of the company. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的耐心等待，歡迎參加 Safe Bulkers 電話會議，了解截至 2023 年 12 月 31 日的第四季度財務業績。與我們在一起的還有董事長兼執行長 Polys Hajioannou 先生； Loukas Barmparis 博士，總裁；以及公司財務長 Konstantinos Adamopoulos 先生。（操作員說明）

Following this conference call, if you need any further information on the conference call or on the presentation, please contact Capital Link at 212-661-7566. I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today, February 13, 2024. The archived webcast of the conference call will soon be made available on the Safe Bulkers website, www.safebulkers.com.

在本次電話會議之後，如果您需要有關電話會議或演示的更多信息，請致電 212-661-7566 聯繫 Capital Link。我必須告知您，本次會議將於今天（2024 年 2 月 13 日）進行錄製。電話會議的存檔網路廣播很快將在 Safe Bulkers 網站 www.safebulkers.com 上提供。

Many of the remarks today contain forward-looking statements based on current expectations. Actual results may differ materially from the results projected from those forward-looking statements. Additional information concerning factors that can cause the actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements is contained in the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2023, earnings release, which is available on the Safe Bulkers website, again, www.safebulkers.com.

今天的許多言論都包含基於當前預期的前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述預測的結果有重大差異。有關可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中的結果存在重大差異的因素的更多資​​訊包含在截至2023 年12 月31 日的第四季度收益發布中，該發布可在Safe Bulkers 網站上查看，網址為www.safebulkers .com。

I would now like to turn the conference call to one of your speakers today, President, Dr. Loukas Barmparis. Please go ahead, sir.

現在，我想將電話會議交給今天的演講者之一，主席盧卡斯·巴爾姆帕里斯 (Loukas Barmparis) 博士。請繼續，先生。

Good morning. I'm Loukas Barmparis, President of Safe Bulkers. Welcome to our conference call and webcast to discuss the financial results for the fourth quarter of 2023. During the last quarter of the year, we operated in an improved charter market environment compared to the previous quarter. The company continues to maintain a strong capital structure while implementing its strategy of gradual freight renewal that leads to decreasing fleet average age. Our ongoing efforts to upgrade our existing vessels, coupled with our fleet renewal will enable us to remain competitive while reducing our carbon footprint.

早安.我是 Safe Bulkers 總裁 Loukas Barmparis。歡迎參加我們的電話會議和網路廣播，討論 2023 年第四季的財務表現。今年最後一個季度，與上一季相比，我們的包機市場環境有所改善。該公司繼續保持強大的資本結構，同時實施逐步貨運更新的策略，從而降低機隊平均年齡。我們不斷努力升級現有船舶，加上船隊更新，將使我們能夠保持競爭力，同時減少碳足跡。

Yesterday, just before the issuance of our earnings press release, we announced the sale of our oldest vessel MV Maritsa. This gives me the opportunity to focus on our investment strategy, which takes into account our existing ESG policy and prepares our company for the new most recent regulatory environment in relation to carbon emissions.

昨天，就在我們發布收益新聞稿之前，我們宣佈出售我們最古老的船舶 MV Maritsa。這讓我有機會專注於我們的投資策略，該策略考慮了我們現有的 ESG 政策，並使我們的公司為與碳排放相關的最新監管環境做好準備。

In slide 3, we present the environment -- the environmental regulations timeline. We have been trying to be ahead of the market. For example, by placing Phase 3 orders when only Phase 2 regulations kicked in and sell older vessels and more recently by placing orders for dual-fuel vessels.

在投影片 3 中，我們介紹了環境—環境法規時間表。我們一直在努力走在市場的前面。例如，在只有第二階段法規生效時就下達了第三階段訂單並出售舊船，最近又下達了雙燃料船訂單。

You see on slide 4, the challenge that the drybulk shipping industry faces as we move with steady steps toward 2030. Advanced Phase 3 energy efficiency vessels are only a few, creating operational and commercial advantage for the early movers.

您可以在投影片 4 中看到，隨著我們穩步邁向 2030 年，擴張航運業面臨的挑戰。先進的第三階段節能船舶僅有少數，為先行者創造了營運和商業優勢。

We moved too early, and in slide 5, given our recent deliveries, we have maintained a very competitive average age, and we intend to do the same in the years to come with the remaining order book. All our actions should build up a green fleet advantage as presented in the top right graph of slide 6. Our fleet is comprised of eco vessels built after 2013, conventional vessels, which have been environmentally upgraded and Phase 3 newbuilds, which now account for 20% of our fleet.

我們行動得太早了，在幻燈片 5 中，考慮到我們最近的交付量，我們保持了非常有競爭力的平均年齡，我們打算在未來幾年對剩餘的訂單簿做同樣的事情。我們所有的行動都應該建立綠色車隊優勢，如投影片 6 右上圖所示。我們的船隊由 2013 年後建造的生態船舶、經過環保升級的傳統船舶和三期新建船舶組成，目前占我們船隊的 20%。

Only six of our 46 vessels in our fleet vessel are scheduled to be upgraded. On the bottom graph, a synopsis of our fleet renewal is presented with 12 vessels sold in the last few years, having average age of 15 years old and 16 vessels acquired, nine of which newbuilds and seven second-hand with lower average age of nine years old.

我們船隊的 46 艘船中只有 6 艘計劃進行升級。下圖顯示了我們船隊更新的概要，其中包括過去幾年出售的12 艘船舶，平均船齡為15 年，以及收購的16 艘船舶，其中9 艘是新造船，7 艘是二手船，平均船齡為9 歲了。

Let's now focus on the market. In slide 7, there has been significant volatility in the Cape market. It's worth noting that all eight of our Capes are period chartered with an average remaining charter duration of about two years, at an average daily rate of about $23,600 with the market currently at about $20,500. On the Panamax side, the charter market remained stable. The expectation as reflected by the stable market is optimistic.

現在讓我們關注市場。在投影片 7 中，開普敦市場出現了顯著的波動。值得注意的是，我們所有八艘海角船都是定期租船，平均剩餘租期約為兩年，日均費率約為 23,600 美元，目前市場價格約為 20,500 美元。巴拿馬型船方面，租船市場保持穩定。穩定的市場反映了樂觀的預期。

The interesting point here in slide 8 is that the supply side is relatively weak, creating upside potential after the Chinese New Year holidays. The total dry bulk order book stands at single-digits. We remain cautiously optimistic about the medium-term prospects of the trade market in the coming years due to this healthy order book.

幻燈片 8 中有趣的一點是，供應面相對疲軟，在農曆新年假期後創造了上行潛力。乾散貨訂單總量僅為個位數。由於訂單量健康，我們對未來幾年貿易市場的中期前景保持謹慎樂觀。

About 25% of the medium-sized fleet is older than 15 years as the effect of fleet age and environmental regulations are expected to accelerate scrapping. Japanese built vessels have more efficient design. And please note that 82% of our fleet is Japanese built versus 40% of the global fleet, which means that our fleet can compete better in the forthcoming environmental-based charter market.

約 25% 的中型機隊機齡超過 15 年，因為機隊機齡和環境法規的影響預計將加速報廢。日本建造的船舶具有更有效率的設計。請注意，我們的機隊 82% 是日本製造的，而全球機隊的比例為 40%，這意味著我們的機隊可以在即將到來的環保包機市場中更好地競爭。

We are one of the very few dry bulk companies with Phase 3 order book ahead of our years, timely placed at lower than the present market values, signifying our intention to compete on the basis of operational and environmental performance.

我們是為數不多的提前獲得第三階段訂單的干散貨公司之一，及時以低於當前市場價值的價格定價，這表明我們打算在營運和環境績效的基礎上進行競爭。

Moving to slide 9. We present the development of the CRB commodity index, reflecting the basic commodity -- commodity's futures prices which represent the leading indicators for shipping, including energy, agriculture, precious metals, and industrial metals. We continue to witness the rise of intensification of geopolitical tensions, noting the Middle East region, Red Sea, and Ukraine. We witnessed a greater-than-expected resilience in US in several large emerging markets and developing economies as well as the significant fiscal support in China.

轉到投影片 9。我們介紹CRB商品指數的發展情況，反映基本商品－代表航運領先指標的商品期貨價格，包括能源、農業、貴金屬和工業金屬。我們繼續目睹地緣政治緊張局勢加劇，特別是中東地區、紅海和烏克蘭。我們看到美國在幾個大型新興市場和發展中經濟體的韌性超出預期，以及中國提供的大力財政支持。

Inflation falling faster than experienced in most regions is in the midst of unwinding supply side issues and restrictive monetary policies. The January forecast of IMF raised margin in the projected global GDP growth for 2024 to 3.1% as global inflation projection for 2024 stands at 5.8% lower than the previous forecast. According to BIMCO the forecasted global dry bulk demand growth stands at 1% increase for 2024. Yet the battle against inflation is not clearly won with inflation expectations well anchored in major economies.

在供應側問題和限制性貨幣政策緩解的背景下，大多數地區的通膨下降速度比以往任何時候都要快。國際貨幣基金組織 1 月的預測將 2024 年全球 GDP 成長幅度上調至 3.1%，因為 2024 年全球通膨預測較先前預測低 5.8%。根據 BIMCO 預測，2024 年全球乾散貨需求成長為 1%。然而，由於通膨預期牢牢錨定於主要經濟體，對抗通膨的鬥爭並未明顯獲勝。

In China, the IMF general projection of GDP growth for 2024 stood at 4.6%. China recovery seems stable, even after taking into account the fiscal support, even though the Chinese inflation is near zero, due to the persistent domestic difficulties such as the elevated debt, weakness in corporate sector, structural factors such as aging, which weigh on growth.

國際貨幣基金組織對中國 2024 年 GDP 成長的整體預測為 4.6%。即使考慮到財政支持，中國的復甦似乎也很穩定，儘管中國的通膨接近零，但由於債務高企、企業部門疲軟、老齡化等結構性因素等持續存在的國內困難，對經濟成長構成壓力。

On the other hand, India's growth is set to remain resilient despite the global challenges underpinned by a robust domestic demand, strong public infrastructure investments, and strengthening financial sector as reflected in IMF's January projection for a 6.5% increase in GDP for 2024.

另一方面，儘管強勁的內需、強勁的公共基礎設施投資和金融部門的加強所支撐的全球挑戰，印度的成長仍將保持彈性，正如國際貨幣基金組織1 月預測的2024 年GDP 成長6.5% 所反映的那樣。

Concluding our market view on slide 10. There has been an increased industry-wide volatility driven by tight monetary policies and rising geoeconomic fragmentation. There are signs of disinflation and forecast of stable growth for the next two years. Demand for technological efficiency creates opportunities for those willing to invest as Safe Bulkers has done. It is evident that the ESG adherence becomes increasingly important for the years to come.

在投影片 10 上總結我們的市場觀點。由於緊縮的貨幣政策和日益加劇的地緣經濟碎片化，整個產業的波動性加劇。有通縮跡象，預計未來兩年將穩定成長。對技術效率的需求為願意像 Safe Bulkers 一樣進行投資的人創造了機會。顯然，ESG 遵守在未來幾年變得越來越重要。

Environmentally efficient fleets may lead to a 2-tier market with differential in earning capability. We believe that the combined effect of the aging of the fleet, the low order book, lower sailing speeds, and the new regulations and the GHG targets will favor fleets comprising of efficient vessels tightening the market.

環保車隊可能會導致獲利能力有差異的二級市場。我們認為，船隊老化、訂單量低、航行速度降低以及新法規和溫室氣體目標的綜合影響將有利於由高效船舶組成的船隊，從而收緊市場。

I will conclude on slide 11, where we present certain of our key characteristics which differentiates us from our peers. The key fundamentals are our strong alignment of interest with a significant percentage of management ownership, the comfortable leverage, the ample liquidity and contracted revenues, our track record and, of course, the quality and competitiveness of our fleet.

我將在投影片 11 中進行總結，其中我們展示了我們區別於同行的某些關鍵特徵。關鍵的基本面是我們的利益與相當大比例的管理層所有權的緊密結合、舒適的槓桿、充足的流動性和合約收入、我們的往績記錄，當然還有我們機隊的品質和競爭力。

Our operating model is positioned to capitalize on the new more stringent environmental regulations with assets focused on environmental competitiveness and ESG strategy. At the same time, we are committed to reward shareholders with meaningful dividends while actively building our future competitiveness with a substantial fleet expansion.

我們的營運模式旨在利用新的更嚴格的環境法規，資產專注於環境競爭力和 ESG 策略。同時，我們致力於以有意義的股利回報股東，同時透過大幅擴張機隊積極打造未來競爭力。

Our Chief Financial Officer, Konstantinos Adamopoulos will continue the presentation. Konstantinos, the floor is yours.

我們的財務長 Konstantinos Adamopoulos 將繼續進行演示。康斯坦丁諾斯，請發言。

Thank you, Loukas, and good morning to all. As a general note, during the fourth quarter of 2023, we operated in a weaker charter market environment compared to the same period in 2022, with decreased revenues due to lower charter hires, decreased earnings from scrubber-fitted vessels, decreased operating expenses, and higher interest expenses due to higher interest rates.

謝謝你，盧卡斯，祝大家早安。一般而言，2023 年第四季度，與 2022 年同期相比，我們在包機市場環境較為疲軟的情況下運營，由於包機租金減少、配備脫硫塔的船舶收入減少、運營費用減少以及由於較高的利率而導致較高的利息支出。

Let's focus now on our liquidity and cash flows and our capital structure, which is presented in slide 12. We are maintaining a comfortable leverage of around 37%. Our debt of $516 million remains comparable to our fleet scrap value of $341 million, although our fleet is only 10 years old. Our weighted average interest rate stood at 6.31% for our consolidated debt and this is inclusive of the applicable low margin with a portion of EUR100 million being fixed at a coupon of 2.95% with an unsecured five-year bond.

現在讓我們專注於我們的流動性和現金流以及我們的資本結構，如投影片 12 所示。我們維持著 37% 左右的舒適槓桿率。儘管我們的機隊只有 10 年的壽命，但我們 5.16 億美元的債務仍與 3.41 億美元的機隊報廢價值相當。我們的綜合債務加權平均利率為 6.31%，其中包括適用的低保證金，其中 1 億歐元的一部分固定為無擔保五年期債券，票面利率為 2.95%。

We have paid $85 million for our capital expenditure requirements in relation to our existing order book. The remaining CapEx were $223 million. Our liquidity and capital resources stand strong at approximately $312 million which together with a contracted revenue of about $270 million provides flexibility to our management and capital allocation. Furthermore, we have additional borrowing capacity in relation to eight existing unencumbered vessels and six -- and seven newbuilds upon delivery.

我們已經為現有訂單相關的資本支出需求支付了 8,500 萬美元。剩餘資本支出為 2.23 億美元。我們的流動性和資本資源強勁，約為 3.12 億美元，加上約 2.7 億美元的合約收入，為我們的管理和資本分配提供了靈活性。此外，我們還擁有與八艘現有無抵押船舶和六艘以及交付後的七艘新船相關的額外借款能力。

Moving on to slide 13 with our quarterly financial highlights for the fourth quarter of 2023 compared to the same period of 2022. Our adjusted EBITDA for the fourth quarter of 2023 stood up at $50.7 million compared to $56 million for the same period in 2022. Our adjusted earnings per share for the fourth quarter of 2023 was $0.25. This was calculated on a weighted average number of 111.6 million shares compared to $0.29 during the same period in 2022, and that was calculated on a weighted average number of 118. 9 million shares.

接下來轉到投影片 13，其中顯示了 2023 年第四季與 2022 年同期相比的季度財務亮點。2023 年第四季調整後 EBITDA 為 5,070 萬美元，而 2022 年同期為 5,600 萬美元。2023 年第四季調整後每股收益為 0.25 美元。這是根據加權平均數 1.116 億股計算的，而 2022 年同期的加權平均數為 1.189 億股，而 2022 年同期為 0.29 美元。

We'll present slide 14, our quarterly operational highlights for the fourth quarter of 2023 compared to the same period of 2022. During the fourth quarter of 2023, we operated on average 45.93 vessels, earning an average time charter equivalent of $18,321 compared to 44 vessels at an average TCE of $21,078 during the same period in 2022. Our net income for the fourth quarter of '23 was $27.6 million compared to net income of $34.9 million during the same period in 2022.

我們將展示投影片 14，即 2023 年第四季與 2022 年同期相比的季度營運亮點。2023 年第四季度，我們平均營運 45.93 艘船舶，平均期租收益相當於 18,321 美元，而 2022 年同期營運 44 艘船舶，平均期租收益為 21,078 美元。我們 2023 年第四季的淨利為 2,760 萬美元，而 2022 年同期的淨利為 3,490 萬美元。

In conclusion, on slide 16, we present our recent newbuild deliveries. Based on our financial performance, the company's Board of Directors declared a $0.05 dividend per common share. We would like to emphasize that the company is maintaining a healthy cash position, revolving credit facilities, and undrawn borrowing capacity, altogether, combined liquidity and capital resources north of $300 million.

總而言之，在幻燈片 16 上，我們展示了我們最近交付的新船。根據我們的財務業績，公司董事會宣布每股普通股派發 0.05 美元的股息。我們想強調的是，該公司保持健康的現金狀況、循環信貸額度和未提取的借款能力，流動性和資本資源總計超過 3 億美元。

Furthermore, we have contracted revenue from our non-cancellable spot and period time charter contracts of more than $240 million. And this is net of commissions and before any scrap revenue and additional borrowing capacity in relation to eight unencumbered existing ships and seven newbuilds upon the delivery. We believe our strong liquidity and our comfortable leverage will enable us to expand the fleet while still rewarding our shareholders.

此外，我們從不可撤銷的現貨和定期租船合約中獲得的合約收入超過 2.4 億美元。這是扣除佣金後的淨值，不包括與八艘未受限制的現有船舶和交付後的七艘新船相關的任何報廢收入和額外借款能力。我們相信，我們強大的流動性和舒適的槓桿將使我們能夠擴大船隊，同時仍然回報我們的股東。

Thank you. We are now ready to accept questions.

謝謝。我們現在準備好接受提問。

(Operator Instructions) Omar Nokta, Jefferies.

（操作員說明）Omar Nokta，Jefferies。

Thank you. Hey, guys, good afternoon. Just had a couple of questions, maybe just on the last point you made right before the Q&A session. Just wanted to ask about uses of free cash in this market environment. Clearly, 4Q was a stronger period than we anticipated or at least a lot of us anticipated, 1Q is off to a solid start. There's a lot of disruption globally. And so just in general, as you think about things, how are you thinking about the uses of cash at this point? Or at least the main use of cash? Is it to lower debt at this point? Or do you still see opportunities for further expansion beyond the current scope?

謝謝。嘿，夥計們，下午好。只是有幾個問題，也許只是關於您在問答環節之前提出的最後一點。只是想問一下在這種市場環境下自由現金的用途。顯然，第四季的表現比我們預期的要好，或者至少比我們許多人預期的要好，第一季有一個好的開始。全球範圍內出現了很多混亂。總的來說，當你思考問題時，你現在如何考慮現金的用途？或至少主要使用現金？此時是為了降低債務嗎？或者您仍然看到超出當前範圍進一步擴展的機會？

Yes. Hello. Good morning to you. And look, the situation depends on how the market develops. At the moment, we see the market is turning quite positive for the next year or so and even more in 2025 as we see also American economy doing very well. So the use of cash will be split for new buildings with fleet renewal. We don't exclude the sale of older ships to be replaced by more modern ships. So it's not only the new builds that they are coming.

是的。你好。早安.看，情況取決於市場如何發展。目前，我們認為未來一年左右市場將變得相當積極，2025 年甚至會更加積極，因為我們也看到美國經濟表現良好。因此，現金的使用將分配用於新建築和車隊更新。我們不排除出售舊船以替換為更現代化的船舶。因此，他們帶來的不僅僅是新建築。

There will be more modern ships added in the fleet, will be some share buyback, I know we didn't do in the last quarter. But we didn't have the -- we didn't have enough evidence how the market would perform. Right now, we have enough evidence that the market is performing. And we will reduce also our leverage. We don't want to increase the leverage from the current percentages as the new ships are coming in.

船隊中將會增加更多的現代化船舶，並將進行一些股票回購，我知道我們在上個季度沒有這樣做。但我們沒有——我們沒有足夠的證據來證明市場將如何表現。目前，我們有足夠的證據表明市場正在表現。我們也將減少我們的槓桿。隨著新船的到來，我們不想增加目前百分比的槓桿率。

So we want to keep it around the current levels. So one-third, 37%, 38%. So we will use cash for all these things. Of course, everything depends on how the market will perform. At the moment, the signs are positive. And you know all the geopolitical situations and Panama Canal has reduced drafts and no Kamsarmax or Post-Panamax are passing now through the canal, coupled with the problem of the Red Sea.

所以我們希望將其保持在當前水平附近。所以三分之一、37%、38%。所以我們將使用現金來完成所有這些事情。當然，一切都取決於市場的表現。目前，跡像是積極的。你知道所有的地緣政治局勢，巴拿馬運河已經減少了吃水，現在沒有卡姆薩爾型或後巴拿馬型通過運河，再加上紅海的問題。

And I need to say here that Safe Bulkers was one of the first companies that declared to its charterers after the first hits of the merchant vessels in beginning December, that we will stop going through the Red Sea, simply because we don't believe that our seamen are -- who are key workers and everybody recognized seamen as key workers, are to be used for transporting through military areas.

我需要在這裡說的是，Safe Bulkers 是在 12 月初商船第一次遭遇襲擊後第一批向承租人宣布我們將停止穿越紅海的公司之一，僅僅是因為我們不相信我們的海員是關鍵工作人員，每個人都承認海員是關鍵工作人員，他們將被用於穿越軍事地區的運輸。

So like we don't trade in the Black Sea for the last two years, we decided not to trade in the Red Sea for the foreseeable future. And this, I want to say that it's very well received by all the crew members of our ships. We control the spot ships we have in the spot markets, it's our decision. But also, I'm pleased to say that the majority of our charterers accepted immediately this condition.

就像過去兩年我們不再在黑海進行貿易一樣，我們也決定在可預見的未來不再在紅海進行貿易。我想說的是，這受到了我們船上所有船員的好評。我們控制現貨市場上的現貨船舶，這是我們的決定。而且，我很高興地說，我們的大多數承租人立即接受了這項條件。

So it's very important for this company to be doing business with the A-rated charterers who share, let's say, the responsibility against the seamen to avoid at least for the next two, three months until things clear out in the Red Sea.

因此，對於該公司來說，與 A 級承租人開展業務非常重要，這些承租人共同承擔對海員的責任，至少在接下來的兩三個月內要避免，直到紅海的情況清楚為止。

It's not good to participate in conferences, and we say that seamen are key workers and like we did during COVID. And nobody was accepting our seamen to get off either in Singapore or in China or in any other country in the world. We had to deviate ships to Manila at the time to disembark our seamen.

參加會議不好，我們說海員是關鍵工作人員，就像我們在新冠疫情期間所做的那樣。無論是在新加坡、中國或世界上任何其他國家，都沒有人接受我們的海員下船。當時，我們不得不將船隻改道至馬尼拉，讓我們的海員下船。

Charterers were not paying deviation cost or calling costs, very expensive to take the ships to Manila. And the only country in the world that allowed safe corridors for seamen to get disembarked at that time in the first half of 2020 was Cyprus, a small country. I'm not saying this because I come from Cyprus, because we are located -- we have our headquarter in Cyprus, but I have to admit that it was the only country that allowed change of crews through a safe corridor because it's a small country, but government is pro-business and can take fair decisions very quickly.

承租人無需支付偏離費用或停靠費用，將船舶開往馬尼拉的費用非常昂貴。而2020年上半年當時世界上唯一允許海員安全下船的國家就是塞浦路斯這個小國。我這麼說並不是因為我來自塞浦路斯，因為我們的總部在塞浦路斯，但我必須承認，這是唯一一個允許通過安全走廊更換船員的國家，因為它是一個小國家，但政府是親商的，可以很快做出公平的決定。

So the same now applies for the Red Sea until this situation is sorted out. Charterers should not be pressing ship owners to send the seamen through the Red Sea -- which -- the seamen, they are not there to watch if the drones are flying over the ship or switch off the lights of the vessels passing through the area. Let's sort it out with the navies as soon as possible, this situation. So we have safe passage again through the Red Sea.

因此，現在紅海也是如此，直到這種情況得到解決。承租人不應該敦促船東派海員穿越紅海——海員們，他們不會在那裡觀看無人機是否飛過船舶或關閉經過該地區的船隻的燈光。我們盡快和海軍一起解決這個情況吧。這樣我們就可以再次安全地穿越紅海了。

Thank you, Polys. That's a very, very good context on everything as you kind of related things a bit towards the COVID situation with the crew changes. I guess in this market, there's been, I guess, two ways where -- I mean, you're obviously much closer to it than we are, but there's clearly a spot contract and then there's the vessels on time charter.

謝謝你，波利斯。這是一個非常非常好的背景，因為你可以將新冠疫情與船員變動的情況連結起來。我想在這個市場上，我想有兩種方式——我的意思是，你顯然比我們更接近它，​​但顯然有現貨合同，然後還有定期租船。

Is there a deviation in terms of how charters are looking at transiting to the Red Sea, at least from your lens and your ships? Are you still having vessels that are in your control operationally that are on contract or that are on time charter, are those ships still, in some cases, being forced to go to the Red Sea by your customer?

至少從您的鏡頭和船舶來看，租船對於過境紅海的看法是否有偏差？您是否仍然擁有由您控制營運的合約或定期租船船舶，這些船舶在某些情況下是否仍然被您的客戶強迫前往紅海？

Yes. On all our time charter ships, I'm proud to say that our charterers are big names. They all cooperated despite there was some costs involved. They cooperated. We let them know early that we will not accept to go through a military area, or a war zone. And we even had a charterer on a route from the Continental to the Paris, that halfway through the Mediterranean turned the ship around and went via the Cape Town.

是的。在我們所有的定期租船中，我很自豪地說我們的承租人都是大牌。儘管涉及一些費用，但他們都進行了合作。他們合作了。我們很早就讓他們知道我們不會接受經過軍事區或戰區。我們甚至在從大陸島到巴黎的航線上有一個租船人，該航線穿過地中海一半，然後將船調轉並途經開普敦。

I'm proud to say that with all these people, we reward them with more business and more ships. When we time charter for one-year charters, we say from the start, we don't cross the Red Sea, the charterers are happy to accept, and they find the optional routes.

我很自豪地說，對於所有這些人，我們將用更多的業務和更多的船隻來獎勵他們。當我們訂一年期租船時，我們從一開始就說，我們不穿越紅海，租船人很樂意接受，他們找到了可選的航線。

So we should pay respect to the people who do the job, and the people are -- they have families, and they are the seamen. They are not military personnel. And even if we use armed guards on board our ships, the arm guards are good against pirates. They are not good against drones and rockets, they can do nothing.

因此，我們應該尊重從事這項工作的人，他們有家庭，他們就是海員。他們不是軍人。即使我們在船上使用武裝警衛，武裝警衛也能很好地抵禦海盜。他們不擅長對抗無人機和火箭，他們無能為力。

So it's a very important matter. And of course, I believe, it will not take long to be solved. It will not be a matter of one year, more like two or three months. And the world navies are in the area. They are taking care of matters. And when the corridor is safe, we will start passing again, hopefully, in the next two or three months.

所以這是一個非常重要的事情。當然，我相信，這個問題用不了多久就能解決。這不會是一年的事情，更像是兩三個月的事情。世界各國海軍都在該地區。他們正在處理事情。當走廊安全後，我們將預計在接下來的兩三個月內再次開始通行。

Yes, definitely. Okay. That makes sense. And then maybe just a final one for me, and it's just more of a follow-up to make sure I understood correctly. So the -- in terms of the share buyback that you haven't yet put to work, clearly, it was at a time of transition and uncertainty. But given how things are at this point, you have the conviction, at least with respect to the dry bulk market, that now is the time to buy stock.

當然是。好的。這就說得通了。然後也許對我來說只是最後一個，這更多的是一個後續行動，以確保我理解正確。因此，就您尚未實施的股票回購而言，顯然，這是一個過渡和不確定的時期。但考慮到目前的情況，你確信，至少就乾散貨市場而言，現在是購買股票的時候了。

Look, yes, we believe it is time because now we have clear signs that the market is pushing up, yes.

看，是的，我們相信現在是時候了，因為現在我們有明顯的跡象表明市場正在上漲，是的。

Okay. Thank you. I'll turn it over.

好的。謝謝。我會把它翻過來。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Climent Molins, Value Investor's Edge.

（操作員說明）Climent Molins，價值投資者的優勢。

Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. You've provided ample commentary on your fleet renewal approach. But I was wondering, could you provide some insight on the reasoning for focusing on ordering midsized vessels instead of Capesizes? Is it because of pricing or because you have a relatively more positive view on Kamsarmax?

早安.感謝您回答我的問題。您對機隊更新方法提供了充分的評論。但我想知道，您能否提供一些關於專注於訂購中型船舶而不是海岬型船舶的理由的見解？是因為定價還是因為您對 Kamsarmax 有相對較正面的看法？

What did you say? Because the line was not good, why we invest in midsized vessels?

你說什麼？因為線路不好，為什麼我們要投資中型船？

Yeah, instead of Capesizes.

是的，而不是海岬型船。

Yes. Yes. We're not a Capesize trade. They're always -- we were feeling over the year a little bit uncomfortable with the type of vessel that relies on one commodity, namely iron ore and little bit of coal. We wanted to be more versatile and be able to trade on more routes. And iron ore is pro -- let's say, China -- depending on the Chinese economy. Of course, now we are -- I believe we are in the right phase also for Capesize opportunities.

是的。是的。我們不是海岬型船貿易。一年來，我們一直對依賴一種商品（即鐵礦石和少量煤炭）的船舶類型感到有點不舒服。我們希望變得更加通用並能夠在更多航線上進行貿易。鐵礦石是有利的──比如說中國──取決於中國的經濟。當然，現在我們——我相信我們也正處於海岬型船機會的正確階段。

Of course, the competition there is huge. The order book is very low. I'm very positive for Capesize as well. But we are little bit afraid that maybe the high capital cost of ordering a Capesize in a good shipyard like Japanese shipyards is more than $70 million. You make all the calculation of interest rate at 6%. And you will understand that is a big risk for a company like ours to step up any major investment in that sector.

當然，那裡的競爭是巨大的。訂單量非常低。我對海岬型船也非常看好。但我們有點擔心，在像日本造船廠這樣的好船廠訂購一艘海岬型船的高資本成本可能超過 7,000 萬美元。你所有的利率計算都是6%。您會明白，對於像我們這樣的公司來說，加大對該領域的任何重大投資都是一個巨大的風險。

We did that in 2021, we bought four Capesize bulk carriers, which are earning handsome rates for us now in the mid-20s for three years or two years or things like that. We fitted scrubbers on them that they are adding a good $1.5 million per vessel per year. So we did our small investment there. Now I don't believe we'll get opportunity in the next six months.

我們在 2021 年做到了這一點，購買了四艘海岬型散裝貨船，這些船現在在 20 多歲左右為我們賺取了可觀的價格，為期三年或兩年或類似的時間。我們為它們安裝了洗滌器，每年每艘船增加了 150 萬美元的成本。所以我們在那裡做了小額投資。現在我不相信我們會在接下來的六個月內獲得機會。

We will try to inspect a couple of ships, but I'm hearing interest from 15, 20 buyers on every ship. I don't think we will be the winners of any -- of those bids. But we're happy that we have invested in -- at the right time, starting in 2020 in the Kamsarmax newbuilds. Japanese Kamsarmax Phase 3 newbuilds and prices, we start investing was around $28 million. Today, the same ships are worth over $40 million to order from those yards.

我們將嘗試檢查幾艘船，但我聽到每艘船上有 15、20 名買家表達了興趣。我認為我們不會成為任何投標的贏家。但我們很高興我們從 2020 年開始在正確的時間投資了 Kamsarmax 新建船。日本 Kamsarmax 三期新建船和價格，我們開始投資約 2800 萬美元。如今，從這些船廠訂購的同樣的船舶價值超過 4000 萬美元。

So we're happy we have done -- we continued in the business we know. We ordered total of 16 units, and we are very well placed since we have delivered nine of those already in a good market and seven more are coming, including two methanol ships. So we're in a good position overall, let's say. We're happy with our moves so far.

所以我們很高興我們所做的事情——我們繼續從事我們所知道的業務。我們總共訂購了 16 艘，我們處於非常有利的位置，因為我們已經交付了其中 9 艘，市場表現良好，還有 7 艘即將交付，其中包括兩艘甲醇船。所以可以說，我們總體上處於有利位置。我們對迄今為止的舉措感到滿意。

Makes sense. Thank you for the color. I also wanted to ask a bit about the 2024 outlook for coal. China recently reinstated the tariffs, and I was wondering whether you expect this to have an impact on the overall market.

說得通。謝謝你的顏色。我還想問一些有關 2024 年煤炭前景的問題。中國最近恢復了關稅，我想知道您是否預計這會對整個市場產生影響。

Could you repeat the question because there are sudden interruptions in the line?

因為線路突然中斷，您能重複這個問題嗎？

Yeah. The question is about China's tariffs on coal, which were recently reinstituted and whether you expect that to have an impact on the overall market?

是的。問題是關於中國最近重新徵收的煤炭關稅，您預計這是否會對整個市場產生影響？

Yeah. Chinese coal imports were at the highest in the last -- in 2023. It's a vital commodity for the Chinese. We know that at a certain point, they will consider the environmental consequences and they will step back. But it's not -- the Chinese, I think, consume around 4 billion tonnes of coal a year.

是的。2023年，中國的煤炭進口量達到了去年的最高水準。對中國人來說，這是至關重要的商品。我們知道，到了某個時候，他們會考慮環境後果，然後就會退縮。但事實並非如此——我認為中國每年消耗約 40 億噸煤炭。

So the imported quantity of around 10% of that amount is not that big. And I don't think they will deescalate from coal in the next, let's say, five to 10 years. Later on, of course, we may see reduction of coal into China, and we will see increase in coal into other areas like India, Malaysia, Vietnam, Southeast Asia countries.

因此，進口量約佔該數量的10%，並不算大。我認為，在接下來的五到十年內，煤炭的使用不會逐漸減少。當然，稍後我們可能會看到進入中國的煤炭減少，而我們將看到進入印度、馬來西亞、越南、東南亞國家等其他地區的煤炭增加。

So I think coal will always be there. And I think if there is a cleaner coal from other areas or technologies to make it more friendly to the environment. But I don't think coal will be reducing a lot in the years to come.

所以我認為煤炭將永遠存在。我認為是否有來自其他地區的更清潔的煤炭或技術可以使其對環境更加友善。但我認為未來幾年煤炭消耗量不會大幅減少。

Thanks for the color, adult from me. I'll pass it over. Thank you for taking my questions and congratulations for the quarter.

謝謝你的顏色，我的成年人。我會把它傳過去。感謝您回答我的問題並對本季表示祝賀。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. We have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. Therefore, I'll turn the call back over to Mr. Polys Hajioannou for closing remarks.

謝謝。我們的問答環節已經結束。因此，我將把電話轉回給 Polys Hajioannou 先生做總結發言。

So thank you very much for attending our presentation and we are looking forward to discussion again in June on the financial results of our next quarter. Thank you all and have a nice day.

非常感謝您參加我們的演示，我們期待在 6 月再次討論我們下一季的財務業績。謝謝大家，祝您有美好的一天。

And this concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與。