Safe Bulkers Inc (SB) 2019 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Safe Bulkers conference call to discuss the fourth quarter 2019 financial results. Today, we have with us from Safe Bulkers, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Polys Hajioannou; President, Dr. Loukas Barmparis; Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Konstantinos Adamopoulos; and Chief Operating Officer, Mr. Ioannis Foteinos. (Operator Instructions) I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today.

女士們、先生們，感謝大家的耐心等待，歡迎參加 Safe Bulkers 電話會議，討論 2019 年第四季度的財務業績。今天，來自 Safe Bulkers 的董事長兼首席執行官 Polys Hajioannou 先生；主席盧卡斯·巴爾帕里斯 (Loukas Barmparis) 博士；首席財務官 Konstantinos Adamopoulos 先生；首席運營官 Ioannis Foteinos 先生。 （操作員指示）我必須通知您，今天的會議正在錄製。

Before we begin, please note that this presentation contains forward-looking statements as defined in Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 as amended and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 as amended, concerning future events, the company's growth strategy and measures to implement such strategy, including expected vessel acquisitions and entering into further time charters. Words such as expects, intends, plans, believes, anticipates, hopes, estimates and variations of such words and similar expressions are intended to identify forward-looking statements. Although the company believes that the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements are reasonable, no assurance can be given that such expectations will prove to have been correct. These statements involve known and unknown risks, and are based upon a number of assumptions and estimates which are inherently subject to significant uncertainties and contingencies, many of which are beyond the control of the company. Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements.

在我們開始之前，請注意，本演示文稿包含經修訂的 1933 年證券法第 27A 條和經修訂的 1934 年證券交易法第 21E 條定義的前瞻性陳述，涉及未來事件、公司的增長戰略和措施實施此類戰略，包括預期的船舶收購和簽訂進一步的期租合同。期望、打算、計劃、相信、預期、希望、估計等詞語以及這些詞語的變體和類似表達旨在識別前瞻性陳述。儘管該公司認為此類前瞻性陳述中反映的預期是合理的，但不能保證此類預期將被證明是正確的。這些陳述涉及已知和未知的風險，並基於許多假設和估計，這些假設和估計本質上受到重大不確定性和意外事件的影響，其中許多因素超出了公司的控制範圍。實際結果可能與此類前瞻性陳述明示或暗示的結果存在重大差異。

Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially include, but are not limited to, changes in the demand for drybulk vessels, competitive factors in the markets in which the company operates, risks associated with operations outside the United States and other factors listed from time to time in the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The company expressly disclaims any obligations or undertaking to release publicly any updates or revisions to any forward-looking statements containing herein to reflect any change in the company's expectations with respect thereto or any change in events, conditions or circumstances on which any statement is based.

可能導致實際結果出現重大差異的因素包括但不限於乾散貨船需求的變化、公司經營所在市場的競爭因素、與美國境外業務相關的風險以及不時列出的其他因素該公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中。公司明確聲明不承擔任何義務或承諾公開發布對本文中包含的任何前瞻性陳述的任何更新或修訂，以反映公司對此預期的任何變化或任何陳述所依據的事件、條件或情況的任何變化。

And now I pass the floor to Dr. Barmparis. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我請巴姆帕里斯博士發言。請繼續，先生。

Good morning. I'm Loukas Barmparis, President of Safe Bulkers. Welcome to our conference call and webcast to discuss the financial results for the fourth quarter of 2019.

早上好。我是 Safe Bulkers 總裁 Loukas Barmparis。歡迎參加我們的電話會議和網絡廣播，討論 2019 年第四季度的財務業績。

We had a profitable quarter despite the downtime of several vessels due to scrubber retrofitting. Bulk installed scrubbers are in operation, providing operational flexibility and commercial benefits. We have postponed the installation of scrubbers on the last 5 vessels from Q1 2020, and now we have to postpone again for the second quarter of 2020 due to coronavirus outbreak.

儘管由於洗滌塔改造導致多艘船舶停工，但我們仍實現了盈利的季度。批量安裝的洗滌器已投入運行，提供了操作靈活性和商業效益。我們推遲了從 2020 年第一季度開始在最後 5 艘船上安裝脫硫塔的計劃，現在由于冠狀病毒的爆發，我們不得不再次推遲到 2020 年第二季度。

The key note of this presentation is our liquidity, which, following the refinancing which was completed by the year-end, is in excess of $170 million. We remarkably have done numerous dry dockings last year, we have already paid 75% of our environmental investments, while our debt-to-asset ratio is comfortably at 60%.

本次演示的重點是我們的流動性，在年底完成再融資後，流動性超過 1.7 億美元。去年我們進行了大量的干船塢，我們已經支付了 75% 的環境投資，而我們的資產負債率輕鬆維持在 60%。

Let's move into analyzing the market conditions. On Slide 4, we present the outlook of the market in terms of freight rates of Capes and Kamsarmaxes as compared with 2019. The effect of seasonality is apparent, and like every year, the first quarter is underperforming. This has been intensified by the outbreak of coronavirus, which greatly affected China, the most significant drybulk player. However, the commencement of the grain season, in combination with the successful conclusion of Phase 1 U.S.-China agreement, is giving a sign of improvement in the medium-sized vessels and in particular in Kamsarmax-sized.

讓我們開始分析市場狀況。在幻燈片 4 中，我們展示了與 2019 年相比的好望角型和卡姆薩爾型船運價的市場前景。季節性影響顯而易見，與往年一樣，第一季度表現不佳。冠狀病毒的爆發加劇了這種情況，極大地影響了最重要的干散貨參與者中國。然而，穀物季節的開始，加上中美第一階段協議的成功締結，給中型船舶，特別是卡姆薩爾型船舶帶來了改善的跡象。

Turning to Slide 5, we present the forecasted shipments from Brazil for the second to fourth quarter. Recently announced by a major Brazilian iron ore producer, the forecast for production is expected to reach 340 million to 355 million tonnes. Taking into account a very slow Q1 activity, if targets are to be met, Brazil iron ore shipments could surge during Q2 to Q4. In this case, average quarterly shipments out of Brazil would jump about 12.5 million and will approach the levels seen in 2018.

轉向幻燈片 5，我們展示了第二至第四季度巴西的出貨量預測。巴西一家主要鐵礦石生產商最近宣布，預計產量將達到3.4億至3.55億噸。考慮到第一季度的活動非常緩慢，如果要實現目標，巴西鐵礦石出貨量可能會在第二季度至第四季度激增。在這種情況下，巴西的平均季度出貨量將躍升約 1250 萬件，接近 2018 年的水平。

Furthermore, looking onto the bottom graph, a sharp rise in the U.S. soybeans sales to China is evident following the Phase 1 deal. China is expected to further increase substantially its purchases as part of this deal, which will coincide with the start of the regular East Coast South America grain season that usually is picking up during spring. Prospects for both iron ore and grains are very promising. However, the coronavirus outbreak remains still a grave concern for the shipping market.

此外，從底部圖表可以看出，第一階段協議之後，美國對中國的大豆銷量明顯增加。作為該協議的一部分，預計中國將進一步大幅增加採購量，這將恰逢南美東海岸常規穀物季節的開始，該季節通常在春季開始。鐵礦石和穀物的前景都非常廣闊。然而，冠狀病毒的爆發仍然是航運市場的嚴重擔憂。

Turning to Slide 6. We are presenting the Chinese response to the severe headwinds faced. Special purpose bonds, the so-called SPBs, are bonds central government uses to finance local authorities. Use of [special purpose bonds] are directed to infrastructure. In 2019, around CNY 2.5 trillion were issued in the form of SPBs. This year, the initial assessment was that about CNY 3.2 trillion will be issued. And this number was -- right now, is expected to be CNY 3.8 trillion, and that's was announced in February.

轉向幻燈片 6。我們將介紹中國對所面臨的嚴重逆風的反應。特殊目的債券，即所謂的 SPB，是中央政府用來為地方當局融資的債券。 [特殊目的債券]的使用針對基礎設施。 2019年，SPB發行量約2.5萬億元。今年初步預計發行規模約為3.2萬億元。這個數字目前預計為 3.8 萬億元人民幣，這是 2 月份宣布的。

During January, Chinese local governments issued CNY 715 billion of SBPs, the highest monthly issuance on record. We believe that the special purpose bonds will be the catalyst for a boost in industrial production and, consequently, for the boost in demand in marine transport commodities when the conditions in China normalize.

1月份，中國地方政府發行了7150億元人民幣的SBP，創歷史最高月度發行量。我們相信，當中國情況正常化時，特殊目的債券將成為工業生產提振的催化劑，從而推動海運商品需求的提振。

Talking into supply slide in Slide 7, we see that the order book in 2020 is right in the region of 5% for both Capes and Kamsarmaxes as compared with existing fleet. However, these orders are mostly placed in Chinese shipyards, which are presently facing closedowns because of the virus. We expect a significant portion of the order book to be pushed back to 2021. Furthermore, prevailing market conditions with low freight rates, increased CapEx for complying with ballast water treatment systems and IMO 2020 regulations as well as firm scrapping rate will enhance scrapping activity. So far in 2020, about 20 Capesize vessels have already been sold for scrapping.

談到幻燈片 7 中的供應幻燈片，我們發現與現有船隊相比，好望角型和卡姆薩爾型船 2020 年的訂單量都在 5% 左右。然而，這些訂單大多是在中國造船廠下的，這些造船廠目前因病毒而面臨關閉。我們預計訂單簿的很大一部分將推遲到 2021 年。此外，低運費的當前市場狀況、為遵守壓載水處理系統和 IMO 2020 法規而增加的資本支出以及穩定的報廢率將增強報廢活動。 2020年到目前為止，已有約20艘好望角型船舶被出售進行報廢。

It is worth noting, there is a discussion [which relates to the decarbonization of the shipping emissions. Our schedule in these] additional environmental concerns as to compliance with the forthcoming regulations is expected to put the brakes in new orders.

值得注意的是，有一個討論[涉及航運排放的脫碳。我們在這些額外的環境問題上的時間表預計會抑制新訂單的遵守，以遵守即將出台的法規。

In the next slide, #8, we will present the developments in relation to IMO 2020 low sulfur scrub regulation. As previously announced, we have opted to comply with regulation by retrofitting scrubbers in our fleet. Within 2019, we have retrofitted scrubbers in 15 of our vessels, whilst more vessels -- whilst 5 more vessels are to be retrofitted within the second quarter of 2020. Conditions in China are causing delays in the schedule of retrofitting.

在下一張幻燈片 #8 中，我們將介紹與 IMO 2020 低硫洗滌法規相關的進展。正如之前所宣布的，我們選擇通過在我們的機隊中改裝洗滌器來遵守法規。 2019 年，我們對15 艘船舶進行了脫硫塔改造，同時還將在2020 年第二季度內對更多船舶進行改造，另外還有5 艘船舶將進行改造。中國的情況導致改造時間表被推遲。

On the graph, we presented development of the price or the spread differential between very low sulfur fuel oil compliance fuel and the heavy sulfur fuel oil in Singapore. The prices differ and they refer to delivered on both prices according to data from Refinitiv Oil Research and ClearLynx. Difference in price between very low sulfur fuel oil and HSFO, often referred to as Hi5, peaked at the beginning of the year, exceeding USD 350 per metric ton.

在圖表中，我們展示了新加坡極低硫燃料油合規燃料與重硫燃料油之間的價格或價差變化。價格有所不同，它們指的是根據 Refinitiv Oil Research 和 ClearLynx 的數據提供的兩種價格。極低硫燃料油和 HSFO（通常稱為 Hi5）之間的價格差異在年初達到峰值，超過每噸 350 美元。

The outbreak of the coronavirus along with warmer-than-usual winter in the Northern Hemisphere have negatively affected the demand for gas oil, and hence, the prices were softening.

冠狀病毒的爆發以及北半球冬季比平常溫暖對柴油需求產生了負面影響，因此價格走軟。

The [cold start of March marks] the various days on which we concluded fixtures of our scrubber-fitted vessels. As of today, we have concluded numerous fixtures of scrubber-fitted vessels, taking advantage of the spread differential at various levels. Our benefit is calculated on the base of heavy fuel oil consumption during a specific voyage and the prevailing price differential.

[三月的冷開始標誌著]我們完成了配備洗滌器的船舶的固定工作的不同日子。截至今天，我們已經利用不同級別的價差差異完成了許多配備洗滌器的船舶的固定裝置。我們的收益是根據特定航次的重油消耗量和現行價差計算的。

We expect that after coronavirus outbreak is controlled, we can actually increase oil/gas oil demand, could influence the price differential, reflecting the actual demand and supply equilibrium.

我們預計，疫情得到控制後，油氣需求實際上會增加，可能會影響價差，反映實際的供需平衡。

Turning to Slide 9 in the context of our environmental and social responsibility policies, we're going to make significant environmental investments by retrofitting scrubbers and ballast water treatment systems in our fleet. We have already invested $51.9 million as of year-end out of the expected cost of $70 million. As mentioned, until today, we will retrofit 15 scrubbers and 20 ballast water treatment systems. By at the end of the second quarter of 2020, 5 more scrubbers will be installed, bringing the total number of scrubbers to 20.

轉向幻燈片 9，在我們的環境和社會責任政策的背景下，我們將通過改造船隊中的洗滌器和壓載水處理系統來進行重大環境投資。截至年底，我們已投資 5190 萬美元，預計成本為 7000 萬美元。如前所述，直到今天，我們將改造 15 個洗滌器和 20 個壓載水處理系統。到2020年第二季度末，將再安裝5個洗滌器，使洗滌器總數達到20個。

On the bottom table, we estimate the expected downtime in days for Q1 and Q2 in order to assist analysts in their predictions.

在底部表格中，我們估計了第一季度和第二季度的預期停機時間（以天為單位），以協助分析師進行預測。

Concluding in Slide 10, let's summarize the key takeaways. Seasonality patterns are repetitive, enhanced after Chinese New Year by the coronavirus outbreak. The U.S.-Chinese Phase 1 agreement and Chinese special purpose bonds will support demand side. Delays in Chinese shipyards, delays in ports due to quarantine and scrapping due to market conditions and excessive environmental investments will control the supply side. Vessels with scrubbers and modern eco-design vessels are getting an advantage in the chartering market. We are competing on the basis of our 11 eco-design vessels which don't have scrubbers and on the fuel price differential for the 20 scrubber-fitted vessels in our program.

在幻燈片 10 中，我們總結一下關鍵要點。季節性模式是重複的，農曆新年後，冠狀病毒的爆發加劇了這種模式。中美第一階段協議和中國特殊目的債券將支持需求面。中國造船廠的延誤、港口因市場狀況而導致的檢疫和拆船延誤以及過度的環保投資將控制供應面。配備洗滌器的船舶和現代生態設計船舶在租賃市場上獲得了優勢。我們的競爭依據是我們的 11 艘不帶洗滌器的生態設計船舶以及我們計劃中 20 艘配備洗滌器的船舶的燃油價格差異。

Key note is our liquidity exceeding $170 million, which gives us flexibility in the present unstable environment.

關鍵是我們的流動性超過 1.7 億美元，這使我們在當前不穩定的環境中具有靈活性。

Now our Chief Financial Officer will present our quarterly financials.

現在我們的首席財務官將介紹我們的季度財務狀況。

Thank you, Loukas, and good morning, everyone.

謝謝你，盧卡斯，大家早上好。

In Slide 12, we present our liquidity, which is as of February 21, 2020, stood at $174.4 million, consisting of $113.8 million in cash and bank time deposits; $14.2 million in restricted cash; $20 million available under the unsecured revolving credit facility; and $26.4 million secured under the commitment from a bank for the delivery -- for the post-delivery financing of our newbuild Post-Panamax class vessel.

在幻燈片 12 中，我們展示了截至 2020 年 2 月 21 日的流動性為 1.744 億美元，其中包括 1.138 億美元的現金和銀行定期存款； 1,420 萬美元限制性現金；無擔保循環信貸額度下可提供 2000 萬美元；根據銀行交付承諾提供的 2,640 萬美元用於為我們新建的超巴拿馬型船舶提供交付後融資。

During the fourth quarter of 2019, we have refinanced a large portion of our debt, and in Slide 13, represented on the blue columns are the payment schedule on a pro forma basis, taking into account the sale and leaseback transactions which were concluded in January versus a repayment schedule as of December 31, 2019, in the red columns. As a result of the refinancings, we'll have an additional liquidity of $53.1 million.

在 2019 年第四季度，我們對很大一部分債務進行了再融資，在幻燈片 13 中，藍色欄中顯示的是預計付款時間表，考慮到 1 月份完成的售後回租交易與截至2019 年12 月31 日的還款計劃（紅色欄中）相比。再融資後，我們將獲得 5,310 萬美元的額外流動資金。

Moving on to Slide 14, we present our quarterly TCE, which stood at $13,707. The aggregate figure for both OpEx and G&A for the last quarter of the previous year was $6,517 as a result of dry-docking expense related to 5 fully completed and 1 partially completed dry docking, of increased spares and repairs and maintenance, again to be completed in some forthcoming dry dockings, and of increased administration expenses.

轉到幻燈片 14，我們展示了季度 TCE，為 13,707 美元。去年最後一個季度的運營支出和一般管理費用總計為6,517 美元，這是由於與5 個完全完成的干塢和1 個部分完成的干塢相關的干塢費用，以及增加的備件和維修和維護費用，同樣有待完成一些即將進行的干船塢以及管理費用的增加。

Moving on to Slide 15, we present some financial data on a quarterly basis. Our quarterly revenues, our adjusted EBITDA and our operating cash flow have been improving our overall financial strength.

接下來看幻燈片 15，我們提供了一些季度財務數據。我們的季度收入、調整後的 EBITDA 和運營現金流一直在改善我們的整體財務實力。

In Slide 16, we present our daily free cash flow waterfall for the fourth quarter of 2019. We have made about $13,700 per day and spent less than $10,000 per day per vessel for all our daily outflows, including operating, G&A, interest, preferred dividend and principal repayments, leaving about $3,700 per day per vessel as daily free cash flow.

在幻燈片16 中，我們展示了2019 年第四季度的每日自由現金流瀑布。我們每天賺取約13,700 美元，每艘船每天的所有日常支出支出不到10,000 美元，包括運營、一般管理費用、利息、優先股股息以及本金償還，每艘船每天留下約 3,700 美元作為每日自由現金流。

Let's move to Slide 17 with our quarterly financial highlights for the fourth quarter of last year compared to the same period of 2018. Net revenue increased by 1% to $53.2 million from $52.6 million, mainly due to an increase in charter days. Our time charter equivalent rate per vessel decreased marginally to $13,707 per day from $13,875 per day during the same period in 2018. Daily vessel OpEx increased by 17% to $5,103 compared to $4,353 for the same period in 2018, whereas daily OpEx excluding dry-docking and pre-delivery expenses increased by 10% to $4,540 for the fourth quarter of 2019 compared to $4,109 for the same period in 2018. Our adjusted EBITDA for the last quarter of 2019 decreased by 21% to $23.1 million compared to $29.1 million for the same period in 2018. Our adjusted earnings per share for the last quarter of 2019 was $0.01 calculated on a weighted average number of 100.26 million shares compared to adjusted earnings per share of $0.07 during the same period in 2018 calculated on a weighted average number of 102.1 million shares.

讓我們轉向幻燈片 17，其中顯示了去年第四季度與 2018 年同期相比的季度財務亮點。淨收入增長了 1%，從 5260 萬美元增至 5320 萬美元，主要是由於包機天數的增加。我們的每艘船期租等效費率從2018 年同期的每天13,875 美元小幅下降至每天13,707 美元。與2018 年同期的4,353 美元相比，每日船舶運營支出增長了17%，達到5,103 美元，而每日運營支出（不包括幹塢） 2019 年第四季度的預交付費用增加了10%，達到4,540 美元，而2018 年同期為4,109 美元。2019 年第四季度調整後的EBITDA 下降了21% ，達到2,310 萬美元，而2018 年第四季度為2,910 萬美元。 2018 年第四季度的調整後每股收益為0.01 美元（按加權平均數1.0026 億股計算），而2018 年同期調整後每股收益為0.07 美元（按加權平均數1.021 億股計算）分享。

In Slide 18, we present our quarterly fleet data and average daily indicators compared to the same period last year.

在幻燈片 18 中，我們展示了與去年同期相比的季度機隊數據和日均指標。

Closing our presentation in Slide 19, we would like to emphasize that in this period, we have worked extensively in implementing our ESG investments in scrubbers and ballast water treatment systems. We have closed the year profitably. We have retrofitted scrubbers on 15 out of 20 vessels in total. We already reaped the commercial and operational benefits from these investments. We have concluded numerous fixtures with scrubber benefit at various levels of spread differential. And we have refinanced a large portion of our debt, increasing our liquidity to over $170 million, positioned ahead of uncertainties and opportunities that markets may offer.

在幻燈片 19 的演示結束時，我們想強調，在此期間，我們在洗滌器和壓載水處理系統方面廣泛實施了 ESG 投資。我們已經實現了盈利。我們總共為 20 艘船舶中的 15 艘改裝了洗滌器。我們已經從這些投資中獲得了商業和運營效益。我們已經總結出許多在不同價差水平上具有洗滌器效益的固定裝置。我們已經為大部分債務進行了再融資，將流動性增加到超過 1.7 億美元，以應對市場可能提供的不確定性和機遇。

At the first quarter of 2020, the charter market has shown weakness due to seasonality, intensified by the coronavirus outbreak, the full impact of which is not yet known. We are closely monitoring the evolving situation, having rescheduled the remaining 5 scrubber installations. We believe that the market signs are there for a market rebound once the coronavirus outbreak eases.

2020年第一季度，包機市場因季節性而表現疲軟，而冠狀病毒的爆發加劇了這種疲軟，其全面影響尚不清楚。我們正在密切關注事態的發展，並重新安排了剩餘 5 個洗滌塔的安裝。我們認為，一旦冠狀病毒疫情緩解，市場就會出現反彈的跡象。

Our press release presents in more detail our financial and operating results, and we are ready to take your questions now.

我們的新聞稿更詳細地介紹了我們的財務和運營業績，我們現在準備回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

And the first question comes from the line of Randy Giveans.

第一個問題來自蘭迪·吉文斯。

So looking at your scrubbers and especially Slide 8. So first, kind of why did you defer those 5 remaining scrubber retrofits from the first quarter to the second quarter? Were the yards accommodating to your request for the switch? Or did the yards maybe require that delay for the remaining installations for coronavirus or what have you? And then looking at those recent 5 fixtures on Slide 8 with the fuel spread of around $200 a tonne, what does that translate to into a premium on your Kamsarmaxes or Post-Panamaxes?

那麼看看你們的洗滌器，尤其是幻燈片 8。那麼首先，為什麼你們要把剩下的 5 個洗滌器改造從第一季度推遲到第二季度？船廠是否滿足您的轉換要求？或者船廠是否可能要求推遲剩餘的冠狀病毒安裝，或者您有什麼要求？然後看看幻燈片 8 上最近的 5 個固定裝置，燃油價差約為每噸 200 美元，這對您的 Kamsarmax 型船或後巴拿馬型船的溢價意味著什麼？

Okay. The initial push and the initial change of the program for scrubbers was due to Chinese New Year. So instead of having vessels towards the end of December and during January, we decided to push the vessels after the Chinese New Year, these 5 vessels. Now the end result is that we -- the -- all Chinese shipyards have issued a force majeure and were not able to cope with their production schedule. So there was no reason whatsoever to go there and wait. And we took a reasonable decision to postpone in cooperation with the relevant (inaudible) for the second quarter of 2020. I think the situation in China right now is evolving well. The -- it seems that coronavirus is controlled there. And I think that the installation of -- our installation of scrubbers will be able to resume by this March.

好的。洗滌器計劃的最初推動和最初改變是由於農曆新年。因此，我們決定在農曆新年之後推出這 5 艘船，而不是在 12 月底和 1 月期間投放船隻。現在最終的結果是我們——所有中國造船廠都發出了不可抗力，無法應對他們的生產計劃。所以沒有任何理由去那裡等待。我們與相關部門（聽不清）合作做出了合理的決定，將2020年第二季度的時間推遲。我認為目前中國的情況發展得很好。冠狀病毒似乎在那裡得到了控制。我認為我們的洗滌器安裝將能夠在今年三月恢復。

In terms of the benefit, Konstantinos.

就好處而言，康斯坦丁諾斯。

The benefit is $200 roughly, it's ships that they are building around 30 tonnes a day. They're Post-Panamaxes mainly, which makes $6,000 a day by [part of -- 2/3 subsea, which equates to] around 65%. It's making an increased revenue by roughly $4,000 a day.

收益大約為 200 美元，他們每天建造的船隻大約為 30 噸。它們主要是超巴拿馬型船，每天的收入為 6,000 美元，[部分——2/3 海底，相當於]約 65%。它每天的收入增加了大約 4,000 美元。

$4,000 a day. Okay. Perfect. And then the second question, obviously, in the last 4 to 5 months or so, you issued those 4 million shares, and you also repurchased almost 2 million shares. So kind of why was that? And were you required to issue those shares as part of the Post-Panamax purchase? Or could you have used cash back in November? And then now that your cash balance is extremely stable, scrubber CapEx winding down, are additional share repurchases the #1 use of cash going forward or maybe buying back the preferreds?

每天 4,000 美元。好的。完美的。然後第二個問題，顯然，在過去的4到5個月左右的時間裡，你發行了400萬股，並且你還回購了近200萬股。那是為什麼呢？作為後巴拿馬型船購買的一部分，您是否需要發行這些股票？或者你可以在11月份使用現金返還嗎？現在你的現金餘額非常穩定，洗滌器資本支出逐漸減少，額外的股票回購是未來現金的第一大用途，還是可能回購優先股？

Okay. We have always the option either to use cash or to issue shares for each installment. So for the previous...

好的。我們始終可以選擇使用現金或發行股票來分期付款。所以對於之前的...

For the newbuilding.

對於新造船來說。

For the newbuilding, yes, for the newbuilding. So in this installment that we paid in November, we issued shares and, of course, because we believe that based on the net asset value of its shares, [relative] value is low, we have in place a buyback program. And so we started to buy back a number of shares. And of course, at a better rates, at lower rates from what -- from the price that we have issued them.

對於新建築，是的，對於新建築。因此，在我們 11 月份支付的這一部分中，我們發行了股票，當然，因為我們認為基於其股票的資產淨值，[相對]價值較低，所以我們制定了回購計劃。所以我們開始回購一些股票。當然，以更好的利率、更低的利率——從我們發行的價格開始。

In the installment that we gave recently, the price of stock was so low that we decided to pay through cash. At the same time, we have an active program of buying back shares when market price goes below certain levels because we strongly believe in the company and the fundamentals of the company. I remind that we have not diluted shareholders. Basically, our total number of shares remains at above 100 million. And the company is well placed with all this liquidity that we have created to take advantage of the market. We have a low -- relatively low ratio of debt to assets, about 60%. And we're really comfortable that we are well placed in this environment. The buyback program continues from time to time.

在我們最近提供的分期付款中，股票價格如此之低，因此我們決定通過現金支付。與此同時，我們有一個積極的計劃，當市場價格低於一定水平時回購股票，因為我們堅信公司和公司的基本面。我提醒一下，我們沒有稀釋股東。基本上我們的股份總數保持在1億股以上。該公司擁有我們為利用市場而創造的所有流動性，處於有利地位。我們的債務與資產比率較低，約為 60%。我們對自己處於這樣的環境中感到非常滿意。回購計劃不時持續進行。

There are currently no further questions on the lines. (Operator Instructions) You have a further question from the line of Randy Giveans at Jefferies.

目前沒有進一步的問題。 （操作員說明） Jefferies 的 Randy Giveans 向您提出了進一步的問題。

If it's just me, I have a few more questions. I just don't want to monopolize the call earlier. So looking at your fleet, you have those 6 Panamaxes over 15 years of age, appear to be earning a discount, obviously, to the modern Panamaxes. Are you looking to sell those vessels, maybe renew your fleet with more modern secondhands? And if so, which kind of asset class would you focus that growth on, the Capes, Kamsars, Post-Panamaxes?

如果只有我一個人，我還有幾個問題。我只是不想提前壟斷通話。因此，看看您的船隊，您擁有 6 艘船齡超過 15 年的巴拿馬型船，顯然，它們似乎比現代巴拿馬型船獲得了折扣。您是否想出售這些船隻，或者用更現代化的二手船更新您的船隊？如果是這樣，您會將增長重點放在哪種資產類別上：好望角型、卡姆薩爾型、後巴拿馬型？

Yes. Look, indeed some of the fleet, around 6 vessels, they are approaching -- they are over 15 years old. But those ships, you have to keep in mind, they are built in Japanese yards by ourselves, and we trade them for 15 consecutive years. So I'm expecting the ships to last much, much longer than the average ship in other countries that have changed, possibly, 2 or 3 owners during its lifetime. So there is no under any pressure to sell anything in the present environment.

是的。看，確實有一些船隊，大約有 6 艘船，正在接近——它們的船齡超過 15 年。但是那些船，你要記住，它們是我們自己在日本船廠建造的，而且我們連續15年進行貿易。因此，我預計這些船舶的使用壽命比其他國家/地區的平均船舶壽命要長得多，因為其他國家/地區的船舶在其生命週期內可能更換過 2 或 3 個所有者。因此，在目前的環境下，沒有任何出售任何東西的壓力。

Also, some of them, they are fixed at very good rates. We still have -- in the maxes, for example, running at almost $13,000 a day on a time charter fixed this time last year. So we are not in a hurry to do anything on the selling side. If in the future, there will be opportunity to sell, we would consider. But we are working the ships, and that's why you see OpEx going up as if we will keep them for 25 years. And these ships can definitely last 25 years.

此外，其中一些的利率非常優惠。例如，在去年這個時候確定的期租合同中，我們仍然以每天近 13,000 美元的最高價格運行。所以我們並不急於在賣方方面做任何事情。如果將來有機會出售，我們會考慮。但我們正在對船舶進行操作，這就是為什麼你會看到運營支出不斷上升，就好像我們將保留它們 25 年一樣。而且這些船絕對可以使用25年。

Now on the buying side, we are investing countercyclically. And we are approaching, again, this point that it would be worth making an investment on assets. Of course, on the other hand, the stock price is much cheaper than the assets at the moment. So we will invest the money as well, a part of this money, in our stock. So if we go for assets, we believe we should go for bigger ships, not smaller, so should be Kamsarmaxes or Post-Panamaxes or Capes. But the market will dictate this, which -- on which vessel size would be more candidates and at what condition. We'll consider that the current 5-year-old vessels will be under further pressure in the nearby horizon and will give good buying opportunities. And of course, the company increases liquidity before the end of the year, which was a good move, to be able also to see on possible acquisitions.

現在在買方方面，我們正在進行逆週期投資。我們再次接近這一點，即值得對資產進行投資。當然，另一方面，目前股價比資產便宜得多。因此，我們也會將這筆錢的一部分投資於我們的股票。因此，如果我們尋求資產，我們認為我們應該選擇更大的船舶，而不是更小的船舶，因此應該選擇卡姆薩爾型、後巴拿馬型或好望角型。但市場將決定這一點，哪種尺寸的船舶以及在什麼條件下更適合。我們認為，目前已有 5 年船齡的船舶在不久的將來將承受進一步的壓力，並將提供良好的買入機會。當然，該公司在年底前增加了流動性，這是一個很好的舉措，也可以看到可能的收購。

In fact, we always think about the secondhands.

事實上，我們總是會想到二手貨。

What was that last statement, sorry?

抱歉，最後一句話是什麼？

Yes. Loukas is very in favor of secondhands. He doesn't want to add to the supply of newbuildings.

是的。 Loukas非常贊成二手貨。他不想增加新船的供應。

Yes. I would agree with that. Good. And I guess, lastly, so third quarter time charter equivalent rate, $13,300; fourth quarter, a little bit higher, $13,700. Can you give some kind of guidance? I know you have many charters, obviously. But for the first quarter, are we thinking $12,000, $11,000, $10,000 for the full quarter average or at least maybe quarter-to-date?

是的。我同意這一點。好的。最後，我猜第三季度定期租船等值費率為 13,300 美元；第四季度，略高一些，為 13,700 美元。你能給一些指導嗎？顯然，我知道你們有很多章程。但對於第一季度，我們是否認為整個季度的平均值為 12,000 美元、11,000 美元、10,000 美元，或者至少是本季度至今的平均值？

Yes. Usually, I mean, you see the good quarter was the third quarter, but the bigger number is in the fourth quarter, always, you have to go a quarter back and see the numbers from last quarter to estimate what would be the next -- the quarter that we will be reporting. So since the market dropped a bit in the fourth quarter, especially in November, December, in the second part of the fourth quarter, it's expected that the low -- that the number of Q1 will be lower than the $13,700.

是的。通常，我的意思是，你看到好的季度是第三季度，但更大的數字是在第四季度，總是，你必須回顧一個季度，看看上個季度的數據來估計下一個季度——我們將報告的季度。因此，由於市場在第四季度有所下降，特別是在11月、12月，在第四季度的後半段，預計第一季度的數量將低於13,700美元。

Now I cannot tell you accurately how much it will be. The next results will show. And the Q2, of course, would be a lot affected by the Q1 drop of the market as per every year, when you have the Chinese New Year, plus the extra problems of an extended Chinese New Year because what is this, coronavirus and -- has caused this an extended Chinese New Year. So instead of usual 2, 3 -- 2 to 4 weeks of quiet market, it has extended to a possible 6 to 8 weeks. So this would have to take into effect and I think will show you in the Q2.

現在我無法準確告訴你具體是多少。接下來的結果將會顯示。當然，第二季度會受到每年第一季度市場下跌的很大影響，當你過農曆新年時，加上延長農曆新年的額外問題，因為這是什麼，冠狀病毒和 - - 導致了這個延長的農曆新年。因此，市場平靜期不再是通常的 2、3 至 2 至 4 週，而是延長至可能的 6 至 8 週。因此，這必須生效，我想將在第二季度向您展示。

By that time, of course, that we will reach the time of issuing the results of Q2, we expect market to be a lot higher than what it is today because also Chinese, they will come back in the market. They are issuing money for stimulus programs. And the trade will pick up substantially. And at the same time, there will be a delay of the newbuilding deliveries of this year, slowing down in the coming 3 to 6 months simply because the yards -- they have no personnel in the shipyards, and the local manufacturers have closed down to deal with this story of coronavirus.

當然，到那時我們將發布第二季度的業績，我們預計市場將比今天高得多，因為同樣是中國人，他們也會回到市場。他們正在為刺激計劃發行資金。貿易將大幅回升。與此同時，今年的新船交付將出現延遲，在未來 3 至 6 個月內放緩，這僅僅是因為造船廠——他們在造船廠沒有人員，而且當地製造商已經倒閉。處理這個關于冠狀病毒的故事。

So I mean there is not a bad thing without a good thing coming behind it. So we expect to have a much stronger second half of the year like we have in 2019 and even stronger, I believe it will be even stronger than 2019's second half of the year because of the extra attention the Chinese government will pay on the -- reigniting the economy, the Phase I conclusion of the trade war and the delay of the newbuildings. So I think we will be in for a nice surprise in the second half of the year. And these Capesize rates, last year in the second half, they reached, on certain points, $35,000 a day in the spot market. This could be easily repeated or executed in this year. It's quite possible. So on top of that, a company like ours that we have a good part of our fleet, half of our fleet, fitted with scrubbers, the revenue should be substantial because when the economy starts moving again, also the price per volume will move higher. And this will increase also the spread between HFO and VLSFO. So there are positives happening. But of course, we are not at the right time of the year to see them as of now.

所以我的意思是，沒有好事發生就沒有壞事。因此，我們預計今年下半年會像 2019 年一樣更加強勁，甚至更強，我相信它會比 2019 年下半年更強，因為中國政府將額外關注——重振經濟、貿易戰第一階段結束以及新船建造的推遲。所以我認為我們將在今年下半年迎來一個驚喜。去年下半年，這些海岬型船的現貨市場運價在某些時候達到了每天 35,000 美元。今年可以很容易地重複或執行這一點。這是很有可能的。因此，最重要的是，像我們這樣的公司，我們有很大一部分機隊，一半的機隊都配備了洗滌器，收入應該是可觀的，因為當經濟再次開始發展時，單位體積的價格也會上漲。這也將增加 HFO 和 VLSFO 之間的價差。因此，積極的事情正在發生。但當然，我們現在還不是一年中看到它們的最佳時間。

There are currently no further questions on the lines. Please continue.

目前沒有進一步的問題。請繼續。

There are no further questions on the lines. Please continue.

線路上沒有其他問題了。請繼續。

Okay. So thank you very much for attending this -- our year-end and fourth quarter results, and we're looking forward to discuss again with you in the next quarter. Thank you very much, and have a nice day.

好的。非常感謝您參加我們的年終和第四季度業績報告，我們期待在下個季度與您再次討論。非常感謝，祝您有愉快的一天。

That does conclude the conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may all disconnect.

今天的會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。你們都可以斷開連接。