Saratoga Investment Corp (SAR) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Saratoga Investment Corp 2025 fiscal third quarter financial results conference call. Please note that today's call is being recorded.

女士們、先生們，早安。歡迎參加 Saratoga Investment Corp 2025 財年第三季財務業績電話會議。請注意，今天的通話正在錄音。

(Operator instructions)

（操作員指示）

I would like to turn the call over to Saratoga Investment Corp's Chief Financial and Chief Compliance Officer, Mr. Henri Steenkamp. Please go ahead, sir.

我想將電話轉給 Saratoga Investment Corp 的財務長兼首席合規官 Henri Steenkamp 先生。先生，請繼續。

Thank you. I would like to welcome everyone to Saratoga Investment Corp's 2025 fiscal third quarter earnings conference call. Today's conference call includes forward-looking statements and projections. We ask you to refer to our most recent filings with the SEC for important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these forward-looking statements and projection.

謝謝。歡迎大家參加 Saratoga Investment Corp 2025 財年第三季財報電話會議。今天的電話會議包括前瞻性陳述和預測。我們請您參考我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，以了解可能導致實際結果與這些前瞻性陳述和預測有重大差異的重要因素。

We do not undertake to update our forward-looking statements unless required to do so by law. Today, we will be referencing a presentation during our call. You can find our fiscal third quarter 2025, shareholder presentation in the events and presentations section of our Investor Relations website. A link to our IR page is in the earnings press release distributed last night.

除非法律要求，否則我們不承諾更新我們的前瞻性陳述。今天，我們將在通話中參考一份簡報。您可以在我們投資者關係網站的活動和演示部分找到我們 2025 財年第三季的股東介紹。我們的 IR 頁面的連結位於昨晚發布的收益新聞稿中。

A replay of this conference call will also be available. Please refer to our earnings press release for details. I would now like to turn the call over to our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Christian Oberbeck, who will be making a few introductory remarks.

本次電話會議的重播也將提供。請參閱我們的收益新聞稿以了解詳情。現在，我想將電話轉給我們的董事長兼執行長克里斯蒂安·奧伯貝克 (Christian Oberbeck)，他將做一些開場發言。

Thank you, Henri, and welcome everyone. Saratoga Investment Corp, highlights this quarter includes sequential quarterly increase of adjusted NII, excluding the effect of one-time noninterest reserve reversal, improved latest 12 months return on equity of 9.2% reflecting the solid high-quality nature of our existing portfolio.

謝謝你，亨利，歡迎大家。Saratoga Investment Corp 本季強調，調整後的 NII 季度環比增長（不包括一次性非利息準備金逆轉的影響）以及最近 12 個月股本回報率提高 9.2%，反映了我們現有投資組合的穩健高品質性質。

Another increase in total NAV and steady NAV per share, healthy originations in both new and existing portfolio companies while also experiencing outsized redemptions of successful investments and continued overearning of our dividends.

總資產淨值再次增加且每股資產淨值保持穩定，新舊投資組合公司的發起都較為健康，同時成功投資的贖回也出現超額，股息也持續超額收益。

The substantial overearning of the dividend this quarter continues to support the current level of dividends increases. NAV supports increased portfolio growth and provides a cushion against adverse events.

本季股息的大幅超額收益繼續支撐目前的股息成長水準。NAV 支持投資組合的成長，並為不利事件提供緩衝。

This quarter's earnings reflects the impact of the past six months. Trend of decreasing levels of interest rates and spreads on Saratoga investment's largely floating rate assets while not yet recognizing the full-time impact of the recent outsized repayments seen this quarter.

本季的收益反映了過去六個月的影響。薩拉託加投資公司的大部分浮動利率資產的利率和利差呈下降趨勢，但尚未意識到本季近期超額還款的全部影響。

The cost of most long-term balance sheet liabilities are largely fixed though callable either now or in the near future. In the context of a significant level of available cash, currently creating a negative arbitrage management is evaluating the use of such calls prospectively to reduce current debt from an overall investment value and current yield perspective.

大多數長期資產負債表負債的成本基本上是固定的，儘管現在或在不久的將來可以贖回。在可用現金水準相當的情況下，目前創建負套利的管理層正在從整體投資價值和當前收益率的角度前瞻性地評估使用此類看漲期權來減少當前債務。

Our annualized third quarter dividend of $0.74 per share implies a 12.2% dividend yield, based on the stock price of $24.21 per share on January 7, 2025, or 90% of our third quarter's NAV. During the quarter, we began to see the early stages of a potential increase in M&A in the lower middle market reflecting in multiple repayments during the quarter. In addition to significant new originations.

我們第三季的年度股息為每股 0.74 美元，這意味著股息收益率為 12.2%，基於 2025 年 1 月 7 日每股 24.21 美元的股價，或我們第三季資產淨值的 90%。在本季度，我們開始看到中低端市場併購潛在成長的早期階段，這反映在本季的多次還款中。除了重大的新起源之外。

As was the case in previous quarters, our strong reputation and differentiated market positioning combined with our ongoing development of sponsor relationships continues to create attractive investment opportunities from high quality sponsors. Despite lower overall mergers and acquisitions volumes and elevated interest rate levels, we believe Saratoga continues to be favorably situated for potential future economic opportunities as well as challenges at the foundation of our strong operating performance is the high-quality nature resilience and balance of our $960 million portfolio in the current environment where we have encountered significant challenges in four of our portfolio companies.

與前幾季的情況一樣，我們良好的聲譽和差異化的市場定位，加上我們不斷發展的贊助商關係，繼續從高品質的贊助商創造有吸引力的投資機會。儘管整體併購量下降且利率水準上升，我們相信 Saratoga 仍然處於有利地位，可以迎接未來的潛在經濟機會和挑戰，我們強勁經營業績的基礎是我們 9.6 億美元投資組合的高品質、彈性和平衡，在當前環境下，我們的四家投資組合公司都遇到了重大挑戰。

Over the past year, we've completed decisive action and resolved all four of these companies challenges through two sales and two restructurings.

在過去的一年裡，我們採取了果斷行動，透過兩次出售和兩次重組解決了這四家公司的挑戰。

Our current core non-CLO portfolio was marked down slightly by $1.4 million this quarter and the CLO and JV were marked down by $4 million. This was offset by net realized gains of $1.2 million this quarter on various repayments. Most notably, the NVIDA investment and $0.7 million of escrow realized gains mainly from the former Netreo investment resulting in $3.5 million of total net reduction in portfolio value during the quarter.

本季度，我們目前的核心非 CLO 投資組合小幅下跌 140 萬美元，CLO 和 JV 投資組合下跌 400 萬美元。本季各種還款實現的淨收益為 120 萬美元，抵銷了這一損失。最值得注意的是，NVIDA 投資和 70 萬美元的託管收益主要來自先前的 Netreo 投資，導致本季投資組合價值淨減少 350 萬美元。

Our total portfolio of fair value is now 0.7% below cost, while our core non-CLO portfolio is 3% above cost. Our originations this quarter, were elevated as we began to see the effect of declining interest rates and increased M&A activity in the market deployments during the quarter included $85 million in two new portfolio company investments and eight follow-on investments in existing portfolio companies that we know. Well, all with sound business models and strong balance sheets.

我們目前的公允價值總投資組合比成本低 0.7%，而我們的核心非 CLO 投資組合比成本高 3%。由於我們開始看到利率下降和市場部署中併購活動增加的影響，本季度我們的投資額有所增加，其中包括對兩家新投資組合公司進行的 8500 萬美元投資以及對我們所知的現有投資組合公司的八項後續投資。嗯，所有這些都具有完善的商業模式和強勁的資產負債表。

Our quarter end cash position grew to $250 million largely due to an outsized $160 million of repayments of successful investments in five portfolio companies and amortizations exceeding the substantial $85 million of originations.

我們的季末現金狀況成長至 2.5 億美元，這主要歸因於對五家投資組合公司成功投資的 1.6 億美元超額償還以及超過 8,500 萬美元的巨額發起款項的攤銷。

The repayments include the recognition of a $4.8 million realized gain along with $67 million of debt repayments from our successful five year NVIDA investment. This increase in our cash position improved our effective leverage from 160.1% regulatory leverage to 183.2% net leverage, netting available cash against outstanding debt.

償還款項包括確認 480 萬美元的已實現收益以及我們成功的五年 NVIDA 投資的 6700 萬美元債務償還。現金狀況的增加使我們的有效槓桿率從 160.1% 的監管槓桿率提高到 183.2% 的淨槓桿率，即用可用現金抵銷未償債務。

Our overall credit quality for this quarter remains steady with 99.7% of credits rated in our highest category. With the two investments currently still on non-accrual status being Zollege and Pepper Palace, both of which have been successfully restructured, each representing only 0.3% of both fair value and cost.

本季我們的整體信用品質保持穩定，99.7% 的信用評級達到最高等級。目前仍處於非應計狀態的兩項投資是 Zollege 和 Pepper Palace，它們都已成功重組，各自的公允價值和成本均僅為 0.3%。

With 86.8% of our investments at quarter-end and first lien debt and our overall portfolio generally supported by strong enterprise values and balance sheets in industries that have historically performed well in stress situations.

我們的投資有 86.8% 處於季度末，且擁有第一留置權債務，而我們的整體投資組合通常受到在壓力情況下歷來表現良好的行業的強大企業價值和資產負債表的支持。

We believe our portfolio and leverage are well structured for challenging economic conditions and further changes in interest rates in either direction. As always and particularly in the current uncertain environment. Balance sheet strength, liquidity and NAV preservation remain paramount for us.

我們相信，我們的投資組合和槓桿結構良好，能夠應對嚴峻的經濟狀況和利率的進一步變化。一如既往，特別是在當前不確定的環境中。資產負債表實力、流動性和資產淨值保持對我們來說仍然至關重要。

At quarter-end, we maintained a substantial $474 million of investment capacity to support our portfolio companies with $136 million available through our existing SBIC III license, $87.5 million from our two revolving credit facilities and $250 million in cash.

截至本季末，我們維持了 4.74 億美元的大量投資能力來支持我們的投資組合公司，其中 1.36 億美元可透過我們現有的 SBIC III 許可證獲得，8750 萬美元可透過我們的兩個循環信貸安排獲得，2.5 億美元可透過現金獲得。

Saratoga Investment's third quarter of fiscal 2025, demonstrated a solid-level of performance with our key performance indicators as compared to the quarters ended November 30, 2023, and August 31, 2024. Our adjusted NII is $12.4 million this quarter down 5.3% from last year and 31.7% from last quarter.

薩拉託加投資 (Saratoga Investment) 2025 財年第三季的關鍵績效指標與截至 2023 年 11 月 30 日和 2024 年 8 月 31 日的季度相比，表現穩健。本季我們的調整後 NII 為 1,240 萬美元，比去年下降 5.3%，比上一季下降 31.7%。

And our adjusted NII per share is $0.90 this quarter, down 10.9% from $1.01 last year and down 32.3% from a $1.33 last quarter.

本季我們的調整後每股 NII 為 0.90 美元，比去年的 1.01 美元下降 10.9%，比上一季的 1.33 美元下降 32.3%。

When excluding the $7.6 million which is equivalent to $0.44 per share. Net impact of the non-recurring [Noland] investment interest reserve released in the previous and current quarter. From its successful sale adjusted NII increased $0.01 per share from $0.89 to $0.90 as compared to the previous quarter, adjusted NII yield is 13.3% this quarter down from 14.6% last year and from 19.7% last quarter.

不包括 760 萬美元，相當於每股 0.44 美元。上一季及本季釋放的非經常性[Noland]投資利息儲備的淨影響。由於成功出售，調整後的 NII 每股收益較上一季增加 0.01 美元，從 0.89 美元增至 0.90 美元，本季調整後的 NII 收益率為 13.3%，低於去年的 14.6% 和上一季的 19.7%。

Latest 12 months return on equity is 9.2%, up from 6.6% last year and up from 5.8% last quarter and beating the industry average of 8.5%. Our NAV per share is $26.95 down 1.7% from $27.42 last year and down 0.4% from $27.07 last quarter.

最新 12 個月的股本回報率為 9.2%，高於去年的 6.6% 和上一季的 5.8%，超過業界平均 8.5%。我們的每股資產淨值為 26.95 美元，比去年的 27.42 美元下降 1.7%，比上一季的 27.07 美元下降 0.4%。

And our quarter end NAV was $374.9 million, up from $359.6 million last year and up from $372.1 million last quarter. The $2.8 million increase in NAV sequentially resulted primarily from at the market sales of 108,000 shares at NAV. In addition, a further 356,000 shares were sold to the market at NAV for $9.6 million subsequent to quarter end, resulting in total sales of $12.6 million.

我們的季末資產淨值為 3.749 億美元，高於去年的 3.596 億美元和上季的 3.721 億美元。NAV 連續增加 280 萬美元，主要由於在市場上以 NAV 價格出售了 108,000 股。此外，季度結束後，又有 356,000 股以資產淨值 960 萬美元的價格出售給市場，總銷售額達到 1,260 萬美元。

While the past 12 months have seen markdowns to a small number of credits in our core BDC portfolio slide 3 illustrates how our recent strong results have delivered a return on equity of 9.2% for the last 12 months above the industry average of 8.5%.

雖然過去 12 個月我們的核心 BDC 投資組合中的少量信貸出現減值，但幻燈片 3 顯示了我們最近的強勁業績如何在過去 12 個月中實現了 9.2% 的股本回報率，高於 8.5% 的行業平均水平。

Additionally, our long term average return on equity over the last 10 years of 10.4% remains well above the BDC industry average of 6.9% and has remained consistently strong over the past decade, beating the industry eight of the past 10 years.

此外，我們過去 10 年的長期平均股本回報率為 10.4%，遠高於 BDC 行業平均 6.9%，並且在過去十年中一直保持強勁，有八年超過行業平均水平。

As you can see on slide 4, our assets under management have steadily and consistently risen since we took over the BDC14 years ago, outsized repayments offset strong originations this quarter resulting in our a declining. If this does not impact our expectation of long-term AUM growth.

正如您在幻燈片 4 中看到的，自從我們 14 年前接管 BDC 以來，我們管理的資產一直在穩步上升，本季度超額還款抵消了強勁的發放量，導致我們的資產管理規模下降。如果這不影響我們對長期 AUM 成長的預期。

The quality of our credits remains solid with only the two recently restructured Pepper Palace and Zollege credits on nonaccrual, consistent with last quarter. Our management team is working diligently to continue this positive trend as we deploy our significant levels of available capital into our pipeline. While at the same time, being appropriately cautious in this evolving credit environment with that, I would like to now turn the call back over to Henri, to review our financial results as well as the composition and performance of our portfolio.

我們的信貸品質依然穩健，只有最近重組的 Pepper Palace 和 Zollege 信貸未計提，與上一季一致。我們的管理團隊正在努力延續這一積極趨勢，並將大量可用資本投入到我們的產品線中。同時，在不斷變化的信貸環境中保持適當的謹慎，我現在想將電話轉回給亨利，以審查我們的財務表現以及我們投資組合的組成和表現。

Thank you, Chris. Slide 5, highlights our key performance metrics for the fiscal third quarter ended November 30, 2024. Most of which Chris already highlighted. Of note, the weighted average common shares outstanding in Q3 of this year was $13.8 million -- 13.8 million shares increasing from 13.7 million and 13.1 million.

謝謝你，克里斯。投影片 5 重點介紹了截至 2024 年 11 月 30 日的第三財季的關鍵績效指標。其中大部分克里斯已經強調過了。值得注意的是，今年第三季的加權平均普通股流通股數為 1,380 萬美元——從 1,370 萬股和 1,310 萬股增加到 1,380 萬股。

As compared to last quarter and last year's third quarter respectively, adjusted NII decreased this quarter down 5.3% from last year and 31.7% from last quarter.

與上一季及去年第三季相比，本季調整後NII年減5.3%，季減31.7%。

This quarter's investment income decreases as compared to last quarter were primarily due to the impact of the nonrecurring Noland interest reserve reversal of $7.9 million last quarter following the investments full repayment including accrued interest offset by higher prepayment and structuring and advisory fees.

本季投資收益與上一季相比有所減少，主要原因是上季度非經常性諾蘭利息儲備金沖銷 790 萬美元的影響，此前投資已全額償還，包括應計利息，但被更高的預付款和結構及諮詢費用所抵消。

This quarter reflective of the high level of both originations and repayments in Q3, excluding the Noland interest reserve reversal adjusted NII per share increased $0.01 per share to $0.90 per share as compared to the previous quarter.

本季反映了第三季的高水準發起和償還，不包括諾蘭利息準備金逆轉調整後的每股 NII 與上一季相比增加了 0.01 美元，達到每股 0.90 美元。

Investment income reflects a weighted average interest rate of 11.8% as compared to 12.5% as of the previous year and 12.6%, last quarter, approximately two thirds of the interest rate reduction is due to sour base rate decreases and third due to the higher yield of the recent repayments.

投資收益反映的加權平均利率為 11.8%，而上年的加權平均利率為 12.5%，上季為 12.6%，其中約三分之二的利率下調是由於基準利率下降，三分之一是由於近期還款收益率較高。

The impact of this quarter's outsized repayments is not yet fully reflected in this quarter's results as most repayments occurred in the last month of the quarter.

由於大多數還款發生在本季度的最後一個月，因此本季超額還款的影響尚未完全反映在本季度的業績中。

Total expenses for this year's third quarter, excluding interest and debt financing expenses, base management fees, and incentive fees, and income and excise taxes increased to $2.8 million as compared to $2.3 million last year and $2.2 million for last quarter. This represented 0.9% of average total assets on an annualized basis up from 0.8% last year and 0.7% last quarter.

今年第三季的總支出（不包括利息和債務融資費用、基本管理費和獎勵費以及所得稅和消費稅）增至 280 萬美元，而去年同期為 230 萬美元，上季為 220 萬美元。以年率計算，這佔平均總資產的 0.9%，高於去年的 0.8% 和上季的 0.7%。

Also, we have again added the KPI slides 26 through 29 in the appendix at the end of the presentation that shows our income statement and balance sheet metrics for the past nine quarters. And the upward trends we have largely maintained.

此外，我們在簡報末尾的附錄中再次新增了 KPI 投影片 26 至 29，其中顯示了過去九個季度的損益表和資產負債表指標。我們基本上保持了上升趨勢。

Moving on to slide 6, NAV was $374.9 million, as of this quarter end, a $2.8 million increase from last quarter and a $15.3 million increase from the same quarter last year. This chart also includes our historical NAV per share, which highlights how this important metric has increased 22 of the past 29 quarters and has stabilized over the past couple of quarters.

繼續看投影片 6，截至本季末，NAV 為 3.749 億美元，比上一季增加 280 萬美元，比去年同期增加 1,530 萬美元。該圖表還包括我們的歷史每股資產淨值，突顯了這一重要指標在過去 29 個季度中 22 個季度有所增長，並且在過去幾個季度中保持穩定。

Since the resolution of the recent discrete non-accrual over the long term, our net asset value has steadily increased since 2011 and grown by 33% over the past five years. And this growth has been accretive as demonstrated by the long-term increase in NAV per share over the past 4.5 years. NAV per share is up $1.84 per share or over 7%. We continue to benefit from our history of consistent realized and unrealized gains.

自從近期解決長期離散不提列問題以來，我們的淨資產價值自2011年以來穩步增長，在過去五年中增長了33％。過去 4.5 年每股資產淨值的長期成長證明了這種成長是持續的。每股淨值上漲 1.84 美元，漲幅超過 7%。我們繼續受益於我們歷史上持續實現的已實現和未實現收益。

On slide 7, you will see a simple reconciliation of the major changes in adjusted NII and NAV per share on a sequential quarterly basis starting at the top adjusted NII per share was down $0.43 primarily due to first, the impact of the nonrecurring Noland interest reserve reversal last quarter, as previously noted, and second, the decrease in non-CLO net interest income reflecting a lower sofa rate in Q3 and the partial impact of the quarter's repayments.

在投影片 7 上，您將看到按季度連續計算的調整後 NII 和每股 NAV 的簡單變化對賬，從頂部開始，調整後的每股 NII 下降了 0.43 美元，這主要是因為：第一，如前所述，上個季度非經常性 Noland 利息準備金逆轉的影響；第二，非 CLO 淨收入的減少收益的減少了第三季利息

These decreases were partially offset by higher prepayment and structuring and advisory fees. This quarter reflective of the high level of originations and repayments. On the lower half of the slide NAV per share decreased by $0.12 by narrowly due to the $0.16 overearning of the dividend being more than offset by the $0.25 quarterly net realized gains and unrealized depreciation investments.

這些減少被更高的預付款和結構及諮詢費用部分抵消。本季反映了較高的發起和償還水準。在投影片的下半部分，每股淨值略微下降了 0.12 美元，這是因為 0.16 美元的股息超額收益被 0.25 美元的季度淨實現收益和未實現折舊投資所抵消。

Slide 8, outlines the dry powder available to us as of quarter-end which totalled $473.7 million. This was spread between our available cash, undrawn FBI debentures and undrawn secured credit facilities.

投影片 8 概述了截至季末我們可用的乾粉總額為 4.737 億美元。這筆資金分佈在我們的可用現金、未提取的 FBI 債券和未提取的擔保信貸額度之間。

This quarter end level of available liquidity allows us to grow our assets by an additional 49% without the need for external financing with $250 million of quarter end cash available and thus fully accretive to NII when deployed and $136 million of available SBA debentures with its low-cost pricing also very accretive.

本季末的可用流動資金水準使我們能夠將資產額外增加 49%，而無需外部融資，因為季度末有 2.5 億美元的可用現金，因此在部署時可以完全增值到 NII，而 1.36 億美元的可用 SBA 債券由於其低成本定價也非常具有增值性。

We also include a column showing any core options of our debt. This shows that $321 million of baby bonds. Effectively all of our 6%-plus debt is callable either now or within the next four months, creating a natural protection against potential continuing future decreasing interest rates which should allow us to protect our net interest margin if needed. These calls are also available to be used prospectively to reduce current debt.

我們還添加了一欄來展示我們債務的任何核心選項。這表明有 3.21 億美元的嬰兒債券。實際上，我們所有 6% 以上的債務現在或未來四個月內都可以贖回，從而對未來可能持續下降的利率形成自然保護，這應該使我們能夠在需要時保護我們的淨利差。這些電話也可以用於前瞻性地減少當前債務。

We remain pleased with our available liquidity and leverage position, including our access to diverse sources of both public and private liquidity and especially taking into account the overall conservative nature of our balance sheet.

我們對我們的可用流動性和槓桿狀況仍然感到滿意，包括我們能夠獲得多種公共和私人流動性來源，特別是考慮到我們的資產負債表的整體保守性質。

The fact that almost all our debt is long term in nature and with almost non-SBIC debt maturing within the next two years. Also, our debt is structured in such a way that we have no BBC covenant that can be stressed during such volatile times.

事實上，我們的幾乎所有債務都是長期債務，而且幾乎所有非 SBIC 債務都將在未來兩年內到期。此外，我們的債務結構使得我們沒有 BBC 契約，因此在如此動盪的時期，BBC 契約不會承受壓力。

Now, I would like to move on to slides 9 through 12, and review the composition and yield of our investment portfolio. Slide 9 highlights that we have $960.1 million of AUM at fair value and this is invested in 48 portfolio companies, one CLO fund and one joint venture.

現在，我想轉到第 9 至 12 張投影片，回顧一下我們的投資組合的組成和收益率。投影片 9 強調，我們擁有 9.601 億美元的公允價值 AUM，投資 48 家投資組合公司、一家 CLO 基金和一家合資企業。

Our first lien percentage is 86.8% of our total investments of which 25.7% is in first lien last out position. Slide 10, you can see how the yield on our core BDC assets excluding our CLO has changed over time, especially this past quarter, reflecting the recent decreases to interest rates. This quarter, our core BDC yield decreased to 11.8% from 12.6%. With about two thirds of the decrease due to core sulphur base rates decreasing during the fiscal quarter.

我們的第一留置權百分比佔總投資的 86.8%，其中 25.7% 處於第一留置權最後出資位置。投影片 10，您可以看到我們的核心 BDC 資產（不包括 CLO）的收益率隨時間的變化，尤其是上個季度，反映了近期利率的下降。本季度，我們的核心 BDC 收益率從 12.6% 下降至 11.8%。其中約三分之二的降幅是由於本財政季度核心硫基準利率下降所造成的。

The CLO yield increased to 24.6% from 13.0%, last quarter, purely reflecting lower fair values. The CLO is performing and current. Slide 11 shows how our investments are diversified throughout the US. And on slide 12, you can see the industry breadth and diversity that our portfolio represents spread over 40 distinct industries, in addition to our investments in the CLO and joint venture, which are included as structured finance securities.

上個季度，CLO 收益率從 13.0% 上升至 24.6%，純粹反映了公允價值的下降。CLO 正在執行且目前有效。幻燈片 11 展示了我們的投資如何在美國各地實現多元化。在第 12 張投影片上，您可以看到我們的投資組合所代表的行業廣度和多樣性，分佈在 40 個不同的行業，此外，我們還投資了 CLO 和合資企業，這些都包含在結構性融資證券中。

Moving on to slide 13, 9.0% of our investment portfolio consists of equity interest which remain a very important part of our overall investment strategy.

延續第 13 張投影片，我們的投資組合中有 9.0% 由股權組成，這仍然是我們整體投資策略中非常重要的一部分。

This slide shows that for the past 12 fiscal years, we had a combined $32.4 million of net realized gains from the sale of equity interest or sale or early redemption of other investments. This is net of the Zollege, Netreo and Pepper Palace realized losses this year.

這張投影片顯示，在過去的 12 個財政年度中，我們透過出售股權或出售或提前贖回其他投資共計獲得了 3,240 萬美元的淨實現收益。這是 Zollege、Netreo 和 Pepper Palace 今年實現的損失的淨額。

This long term realized gain performance highlights our portfolio credit quality has helped grow our NAV and is reflected in our healthy long-term ROE. That concludes my financial and portfolio review, our Chief Investment Officer Michael Grisius will now provide an overview of the investment market.

這一長期實現收益表現凸顯了我們的投資組合信用品質有助於提高我們的資產淨值，並反映在我們健康的長期股本回報率中。我的財務和投資組合審查到此結束，我們的首席投資長邁克爾·格里修斯現在將概述投資市場。

Thank you, Henri. Today, I will focus on our perspective on the changes in the market since we last spoke with everyone and then comment on our current portfolio performance and investment strategy.

謝謝你，亨利。今天，我將重點談談自上次與大家交談以來我們對市場變化的看法，然後評論我們當前的投資組合表現和投資策略。

While broader middle market deal volumes are showing signs of improvement deal activity in the lower middle market where we operate has yet to pick up, year-to-date deal volumes through calendar '24 for transactions below $150 million are down significantly over prior year by more than 34% and down further still as compared to 2021 and 2022.

雖然更廣泛的中型市場交易量顯示出改善的跡象，但我們運營的中低端市場的交易活動尚未回升，截至 24 日曆年的年初至今，低於 1.5 億美元的交易量較上年大幅下降超過 34%，與 2021 年和 2022 年相比進一步下降。

We believe a number of factors are influencing the decline in the lower middle market deal activity including a disconnect between where buyers and sellers are willing to transact elevated interest rates, making debt financing more expensive and a trend toward P/E firms holding on to assets longer in order to meet their return expectations.

我們認為，導致中低端市場交易活動下滑的因素有很多，包括買家和賣家在交易意願上的分歧、高利率導致的債務融資成本上升，以及私募股權公司為了滿足回報預期而持有資產更長時間的趨勢。

The combination of historically low M&A volume and an abundant supply of capital is causing spreads to tighten and leverage to remain full as lenders compete to win deals, especially premium ones.

歷史性的低併購交易量和充裕的資本供應相結合，導致利差收窄，槓桿率保持充足，因為貸方競相贏得交易，尤其是優質交易。

This was evidenced this past quarter with outsized repayments being experienced in some cases due to lenders offering extremely aggressive pricing on some of our low leverage assets.

上個季度證明了這一點，由於貸方對我們的一些低槓桿資產提供了極其激進的定價，在某些情況下出現了超額還款。

The historically low deal volume we're experiencing currently has made it more difficult to find quality new platform investments than in prior periods.

我們目前經歷的交易量處於歷史低位，這使得尋找優質新平台投資比以往更加困難。

Now that said the relationships and overall presence we've built in the marketplace combined with our ongoing business development initiatives, give us confidence in our ability to achieve healthy portfolio growth in a manner that we expect to be accretive to our shareholders in the long run.

綜上所述，我們在市場上建立的關係和整體影響力，加上我們正在進行的業務發展計劃，讓我們有信心能夠實現健康的投資組合成長，並期望從長遠來看為股東帶來增值。

This quarter, we closed two new platform investments and our investment pipeline is solid. I'll also point out that we continue to believe that the lower middle market is the best place to be in terms of capital deployment.

本季度，我們完成了兩個新平台的投資，我們的投資管道十分穩固。我還要指出的是，我們仍然相信，就資本配置而言，中低端市場是最佳選擇。

As compared to the larger end of the middle market, the due diligence we're able to perform when evaluating an investment is much more robust. The capital structures are generally more conservative with less leverage and more equity.

與中端市場的較大端相比，我們在評估投資時能夠進行的盡職調查更加嚴格。資本結構通常較保守，槓桿率較低，股權較高。

The legal protections and covenant features in our documents are considerably stronger and our ability to actively manage our portfolio through ongoing interaction with management and ownership is greater.

我們的文件中的法律保護和契約特徵更加強大，我們透過與管理層和所有者的持續互動來積極管理投資組合的能力也更強。

As a result, we continue to believe that the lower middle market offers the best risk adjusted returns, and our track record of realized returns reflects this.

因此，我們仍然相信中低端市場提供最佳的風險調整回報，而我們實現的回報記錄也反映了這一點。

The Saratoga Management team has successfully managed through a number of credit cycles. And that experience has made us particularly aware of the importance of first being disciplined when making investment decisions and second being proactive in managing our portfolio.

Saratoga 管理團隊已成功度過了多個信貸週期。這段經歷讓我們特別意識到，首先，在做出投資決策時要嚴守紀律，其次，要積極主動地管理我們的投資組合。

Our underwriting bar remains high as usual, yet, we continue to find opportunities to deploy capital as seen on slide14, or more recent performance has been characterized by continued asset deployment to existing portfolio companies as demonstrated with 40 follow-ons this calendar year versus two investments in new platform portfolio companies.

我們的承銷標準一如既往地保持較高水平，但我們仍在繼續尋找資本部署機會，如幻燈片 14 所示，或者最近的業績表現為繼續向現有投資組合公司部署資產，正如今年的 40 家後續公司以及對新平台投資組合公司的兩家投資所示。

During the fiscal quarter, we invested $85 million through a combination of two new platform investments and eight follow on investments.

在本財政季度，我們透過兩個新平台投資和八個後續投資投資了 8,500 萬美元。

Overall, our origination platform remains strong and our consistent ability to generate new investments over the long term. Despite ever changing and increasingly competitive market dynamics is a strength of ours.

整體而言，我們的發起平台依然強勁，而且我們始終具有長期產生新投資的能力。儘管市場不斷變化且競爭日益激烈，但市場動態仍然是我們的優勢。

Portfolio management continues to be critically important and we remain actively engaged with our portfolio companies and in close contact with our management teams, there remain two portfolio companies that we are actively managing as discussed in previous quarters and I will touch on them shortly.

投資組合管理仍然至關重要，我們仍然積極與我們的投資組合公司合作，並與我們的管理團隊保持密切聯繫，正如前幾個季度所討論的那樣，仍有兩家投資組合公司我們正在積極管理，我將很快談到它們。

But in general, our portfolio companies are healthy and the fair value of our core BDC portfolio is 3% above its cost, 86.8% of our portfolio is in first lean debt and generally supported by strong enterprise values in industries that have historically performed well in stress situations.

但總體而言，我們的投資組合公司狀況良好，核心 BDC 投資組合的公允價值比其成本高出 3%，86.8% 的投資組合為第一精益債務，並且通常受到歷史上在壓力情況下表現良好的行業的強大企業價值的支持。

We have no direct energy or commodities exposure. In addition, the majority of our portfolio is comprised of businesses that produce a high degree of recurring revenue and have historically demonstrated strong revenue retention.

我們沒有直接的能源或商品風險。此外，我們的投資組合中大部分都是那些產生大量經常性收入並且歷史上表現出強勁收入保留率的企業。

We have the same two investments on nonaccrual, namely Pepper Palace and Zollege consistent with last quarter, we continue to hold them on nonaccrual following their restructurings. But their combined remaining value including equity is just $5.8 million or 0.6% of total portfolio fair value, with Zollege is fair value being written up this quarter reflecting positive company performance.

我們擁有兩項未計息投資，即 Pepper Palace 和 Zollege，與上一季一致，在其重組後，我們繼續未計息地持有它們。但包括股權在內的剩餘價值總額僅為 580 萬美元，佔投資組合公允價值的 0.6%，而 Zollege 的公允價值本季有所上升，反映了公司業績表現良好。

Looking at leverage on the same slide, you can see that industry debt multiples remain above 5 times. Total leverage of our overall portfolio increased to 5.56 times excluding Pepper Palace and Zollege reflecting both the repayment of a handful of low leverage investments as well as follow on debt this quarter by some of -- by us to some of our existing investments.

查看同一張投影片上的槓桿率，您會發現產業債務倍數仍保持在 5 倍以上。不包括 Pepper Palace 和 Zollege，我們整體投資組合的總槓桿率增至 5.56 倍，這反映了我們本季度償還了一些低槓桿投資以及對部分現有投資的後續債務。

Slide 15, provides more data on our deal flow. As you can see the top of our deal pipeline is down from last year in part because we made a conscious effort to improve the quality of our deal pipeline. And in part, because market activity is down considerably as previously discussed.

投影片 15 提供了更多有關我們的交易流程的數據。正如您所看到的，我們的交易管道數量比去年有所下降，部分原因是我們有意識地努力提高交易管道的品質。部分原因是，正如之前所討論的，市場活動大幅下降。

Despite these macrotrends, our investment volume was the highest we've had in the past six quarters. Overall, the significant progress we've made in building broader and deeper relationships in the marketplace is noteworthy because it strengthens the dependability of our deal flow and reinforces our ability to remain highly selective as we rigorously screen opportunities to execute on the best investments.

儘管存在這些宏觀趨勢，我們的投資額仍達到過去六個季度以來的最高水準。總體而言，我們在建立更廣泛、更深入的市場關係方面所取得的重大進展是值得注意的，因為它增強了我們交易流程的可靠性，並增強了我們在嚴格篩選機會以執行最佳投資時保持高度選擇性的能力。

As you can see on slide 16, our overall portfolio credit quality and returns remain solid as demonstrated by the actions taken and outcomes achieved on the non-accrual and watch list credits we had over the past year, our team remains focused on deploying capital and strong business models where we are confident that under all reasonable scenarios, the enterprise value of the businesses will sustainably exceed the last dollar of our investment.

正如您在第 16 張投影片上看到的，我們的整體投資組合信貸品質和回報依然穩健，這從我們過去一年針對非應計信貸和觀察名單信貸採取的行動和取得的成果可以看出，我們的團隊仍然專注於部署資本和強大的商業模式，我們相信，在所有合理的情況下，企業的企業價值將持續超過我們投資的最後一美元。

Our approach and underwriting strategy has always been focused on being thorough and cautious at the same time. Since our management team began working together a dozen-plus years ago, we've invested $2.24 billion in 119 portfolio companies and have had just three realized economic losses on these investments.

我們的方法和核保策略始終注重全面和謹慎。自從我們的管理團隊十多年前開始合作以來，我們已經向 119 家投資組合公司投資了 22.4 億美元，而這些投資中只有三家公司出現了經濟損失。

Over that same time frame, we've successfully exited 78 of those investments, achieving gross unlevered realized returns of 15% on $1.2 billion of realizations even taking into account, the recent write downs of a few discrete credits are combined realized and unrealized returns on all capital invested equal 13.6%.

在同一時間段內，我們成功退出了 78 項投資，實現了 12 億美元投資收益的 15% 的總無槓桿已實現回報率，即使考慮到最近對一些離散信貸的減記，所有投資資本的已實現和未實現回報率合計為 13.6%。

We think this performance profile is particularly attractive for a portfolio predominantly constructed with first lien senior debt.

我們認為，對於主要由第一留置權優先債務所構成的投資組合來說，這種業績狀況尤其有吸引力。

As was the case in the previous quarter, with Noland repaid, we have only two investments on nonaccrual although Pepper -- although both Pepper Palace and Zollege have been successfully restructured, we are still classifying Pepper Palace as red. While Zollege has been elevated back to yellow with a combined fair value of only $5.8 million including equity.

與上一季的情況一樣，隨著 Noland 的償還，我們只有兩項投資未計提，儘管 Pepper Palace 和 Zollege 都已成功重組，但我們仍將 Pepper Palace 歸類為紅色。而 Zollege 則升回黃色，其綜合公允價值（包括股權）僅 580 萬美元。

During the previous quarter, the Pepper Palace restructuring was successfully completed with us taking over majority control of the business. The turnaround specialist we have been working with who has substantial successful experience in similar situations, has invested significant equity in the business and became the CEO and a Board member.

上一季度，Pepper Palace 重組成功完成，我們接手了該業務的大部分控制權。與我們合作的扭虧為盈專家在類似情況下擁有豐富的成功經驗，已在該企業投入了大量股權，並成為執行長和董事會成員。

The total fair value of the remaining investment is $1.6 million. And following the Zollege restructuring of the balance sheet during the first quarter that resulted in us taking over the company and starting to actively manage the investment. The founder and previous owner has invested meaningful dollars in the business and is leading the enterprise and has reassembled some of the former senior leadership.

剩餘投資的總公允價值為 160 萬美元。在第一季 Zollege 重組資產負債表之後，我們接手了該公司並開始積極管理投資。創始人和前任所有者已為該企業投入了大量資金，並領導該企業，並重組了一些前高階領導層。

He and the management team are working in partnership with us with the immediate goal of returning the business to its former profitability levels and the ultimate objective of exceeding those levels.

他和管理團隊正在與我們合作，目前目標是使業務恢復到以前的獲利水平，最終目標是超越這些水平。

We still have equity in a first lien term loan in the company with a current fair value of $4.2 million with the equity marked up this quarter to reflect the recent positive financial performance of the company.

我們仍然擁有該公司第一留置權定期貸款的股權，目前公允價值為 420 萬美元，本季股權有所增加，以反映公司近期積極的財務表現。

In addition, we recognized a $4.8 million realized gain on our NVIDA equity resulting from the sale of the company and recognized $1.7 million of real gain on a Netreo escrow payment. Further improving the overall positive outcome of that investment sold earlier this year, the CLO and JV had $4 million of unrealized depreciation this quarter reflecting primarily markdowns due to individual credits, most notably in the first CLO.

此外，我們也確認了因出售公司而產生的 480 萬美元 NVIDA 股權的實際收益，以及因 Netreo 託管付款而產生的 170 萬美元的實際收益。為了進一步改善今年稍早出售的投資的整體積極成果，CLO 和 JV 本季有 400 萬美元的未實現折舊，主要反映了個人信貸造成的減值，最明顯的是第一個 CLO。

Our overall investment approach has yielded exceptional realized returns and recovery of our invested capital. And our long term performance remains strong as seen by our track record on this slide.

我們的整體投資方法已獲得優異的實現回報並回收了投資資本。從這張投影片上的業績記錄可以看出，我們的長期業績依然強勁。

Moving on to slide 17, you can see our second SBIC license is fully funded and deployed, although there is cash available there to invest in follow-ons and we are currently ramping up our new SBIC III license, with $136 million of lower cost undrawn debentures available, allowing us to continue to support us small businesses, both new and existing.

轉到第 17 張投影片，您可以看到我們的第二個 SBIC 許可證已完全獲得資金並已部署，儘管那裡有可用於投資後續項目的現金，但我們目前正在加大對新 SBIC III 許可證的投入，擁有 1.36 億美元的低成本未提取債券，這使我們能夠繼續支持新老小型企業。

This concludes my review of the market and I'd like to turn the call back over to our CEO, Chris.

我對市場的回顧到此結束，我想將電話轉回給我們的執行長克里斯。

Thank you, Mike. As outlined on slide 18, our latest dividend of $0.74 per share for the quarter ended November 30, 2024, was paid on December 19, 2024. Though unchanged from last quarter, this reflects a 3% and a 9% increase over the past one and two years respectively.

謝謝你，麥克。如投影片 18 所述，我們截至 2024 年 11 月 30 日的季度的最新股息為每股 0.74 美元，於 2024 年 12 月 19 日支付。儘管與上一季相比沒有變化，但與過去一年和兩年相比分別增長了 3% 和 9%。

Additionally, we paid a special dividend of $0.35 per share. Concurrently with the $1 per share total distribution fulfilling our fiscal 2024 requirements.

此外，我們還支付了每股 0.35 美元的特別股息。同時，每股 1 美元的總分配滿足了我們 2024 財年的要求。

Board of Directors will continue to evaluate the dividend level on at least a quarterly basis. Considering both company and general economic factors including the current interest rate. Environment's impact on our earnings.

董事會將繼續至少每季評估一次股利水準。考慮公司和包括當前利率在內的一般經濟因素。環境對我們收入的影響。

Moving to slide 19, our total return for the last 12 months which includes both capital appreciation and dividends has generated total returns of 4% which is uncharacteristically low and under forms the BDC index of 13% for the same period.

轉到投影片 19，我們過去 12 個月的總回報（包括資本增值和股息）產生了 4% 的總回報率，這一回報率異常低，低於同期 13% 的 BDC 指數。

Our longer-term performance is outlined on our next slide 20. Our five-year return places us in line with the BDC index. While our three-year performance is slightly below the index, reflecting the impact of the recent latest 12 months performance and discrete credit issues.

我們的長期表現概述在下一張投影片 20 中。我們的五年回報率與 BDC 指數保持一致。而我們的三年表現略低於指數，反映了最近 12 個月表現和離散信貸問題的影響。

Since Saratoga took over management of the BDC in 2010, our total return has been 740% versus the industry is 284%. On slide 21, you can further see our differentiated performance placed in the context of the broader industry and specific to certain key performance metrics.

自 2010 年 Saratoga 接管 BDC 管理以來，我們的總回報率為 740%，而行業平均回報率為 284%。在投影片 21 上，您可以進一步看到我們在更廣泛的產業背景下以及針對某些關鍵績效指標的差異化績效。

We continue to focus on our long-term metrics such as return on equity and NAV per share and NII yield and dividend growth and coverage. All five of which are above industry averages reflecting the growing value. Our shareholders are receiving the negative NAV per share metric this past year is primarily due to the two discrete nonaccruals Zollege and Pepper Palace previously discussed. Yet, we continue to be three times better than the industry average at negative 0.4% versus negative 1.2% for the industry.

我們繼續關注我們的長期指標，例如股本回報率、每股資產淨值、NII 收益率以及股息成長和覆蓋率。這五家公司的價值均高於行業平均水平，反映出其價值不斷增長。去年，我們的股東收到的每股淨值為負，主要是由於先前討論過的 Zollege 和 Pepper Palace 兩個獨立的非應計項目。然而，我們的利潤仍比行業平均好三倍，為-0.4%，而行業平均為-1.2%。

Our dividend coverage and dividend growth has been one of the strongest in the industry. We also continue to be one of the few BDCs to have grown NAV over the long term and we have done it accretively and our long-term return on equity is 1.5 times the long-term industry average.

我們的股息覆蓋率和股息成長率一直是業內最強勁的之一。我們也繼續成為少數幾家資產淨值長期成長的 BDC 之一，我們實現了增值，我們的長期股本回報率是長期行業平均水平的 1.5 倍。

Moving on to slide 22, all of our initiatives discussed on this call are designed to make Saratoga Investment a leading BDC that is attractive to the capital markets community.

延續第 22 張投影片，我們在本次電話會議上討論的所有舉措都是為了使 Saratoga Investment 成為對資本市場界有吸引力的領先 BDC。

We believe that our differentiated performance characteristics outlined on this slide will help drive the size and quality of our investor base including adding more institutions.

我們相信，這張投影片中概述的差異化業績特徵將有助於擴大我們的投資者群體的規模和質量，包括增加更多的機構。

These differentiating characteristics, many previously discussed include maintaining one of the highest levels of management ownership in the industry at 12.1%. Ensuring we are aligned with our shareholders.

這些差異化特徵，許多之前已經討論過，包括維持行業最高水準的管理所有權，即 12.1%。確保我們與股東保持一致。

Looking ahead on slide 23, as we navigate through a reshaped yield curve environment with decreasing short term and increasing long term rates and an uncertain economic outlook. We remain confident that our reputation, experienced management team, robust pipeline and historically strong underwriting standards and time and market tested investment strategy will serve us well to continue to steadily increase our portfolio size quality and investment performance over the long term.

展望第 23 張投影片，我們將經歷一個重塑的殖利率曲線環境，短期利率下降、長期利率上升，經濟前景不明朗。我們堅信，我們的聲譽、經驗豐富的管理團隊、強大的管道、歷來強大的承保標準以及經過時間和市場考驗的投資策略將有助於我們長期穩步提高投資組合規模、品質和投資績效。

This will allow us to deliver exceptional risk adjusted returns to shareholders and to navigate through the current challenges in the market and uncover opportunities in the current and future environment.

這將使我們能夠為股東提供卓越的風險調整回報，並應對當前市場中的挑戰，並在當前和未來的環境中發現機會。

We also believe that our strong balance sheet capital structure and liquidity will benefit Saratoga shareholders in the near and long term.

我們也相信，我們強大的資產負債表資本結構和流動性將在短期和長期內使薩拉託加股東受益。

In closing, I would like to again thank all of our shareholders for their ongoing support. I would like to now open the call for questions.

最後，我要再次感謝所有股東的持續支持。我現在開始提問。

(Operator instructions)

（操作員指示）

Erik Zwick, Lucid Capital Markets.

Erik Zwick，Lucid Capital Markets。

Thank you. Good morning. So, wanted to start first, and just looking at slide 23, since we kind of just wrapped up there, you remain committed to expanding the asset base and growing the investment portfolio. You made comments during the call that the pipeline remains solid and you had a pretty good quarter. Here, the one that just wrapped up. So I guess maybe the harder part for me and maybe for you guys as well to have a longer-term view.

謝謝。早安.因此，首先我想開始，只看第 23 張投影片，因為我們剛剛在那裡結束，您仍然致力於擴大資產基礎和增加投資組合。您在電話會議中表示，通路依然穩固，而且本季的業績相當不錯。這是剛結束的那一集。所以我想，對我和你們來說，也許更難的是要有更長遠的眼光。

And it's just, the pace of repayments which was obviously strong in the most recent quarter. So to the degree that you have some sort of sight line, at least over the next, maybe 3 to 6 months. What are your expectations there? Just given that, some of it seems to be the repayments of this most recent quarter were driven by the pickup in the M&A market and you expect that to continue as well. So just trying to balance the outlook for new growth versus repayments as well.

而且最近一個季度的還款速度顯然很強勁。因此，在某種程度上，你有某種視線，至少在接下來的 3 到 6 個月內。您對此有何期望？有鑑於此，最近一個季度的部分還款似乎是由併購市場的回升所推動的，您預計這種情況也會持續下去。因此，只是試圖平衡新增長與償還的前景。

I guess I'll start and Mike can follow up. I think if you look at the last quarter, we had $85 million of originations, which is a pretty robust origination amount. And then we also are in NVIDA investment, a five-year investment essentially, was about half of the $160 million of redemption.

我想我會開始，然後麥克可以跟進。我想如果你看一下上個季度，我們的發起金額為 8500 萬美元，這是一個相當強勁的發起金額。然後，我們也對 NVIDA 進行了投資，這基本上是一項五年期的投資，約佔 1.6 億美元贖回金額的一半。

So if you just take that one out, basically we are kind of neutral on that and, these things happen. I mean, you have different cycles of investment redemption and investments made, and it's hard to predict exactly when, over that five-year period of time that investment would come home. I mean, I think Mike, what that investment started out is what, $6 million investment?

所以如果你把那一個拿出來，基本上我們對此持中立態度，這些事情就會發生。我的意思是，投資贖回和投資的周期各不相同，很難準確預測在這五年的時間裡投資何時能夠回報。我的意思是，我認為麥克，這項投資的起點是多少，600 萬美元的投資？

Yeah, it's actually a Hallmark investment for us in a lot of ways, just in terms of what we do and where we play in the marketplace. So that was initially a $6 million debt deal accompanied with $2 million of equity, we were in it for roughly five years and we're able to support the company's growth. And I think the debt position got well into the high [60s] as the company successfully grew.

是的，就我們所做的事情以及我們在市場上所處的位置而言，這實際上在許多方面對我們來說都是一項 Hallmark 投資。所以這最初是一筆 600 萬美元的債務交易，伴隨著 200 萬美元的股權，我們參與其中大約五年，我們能夠支持公司的成長。我認為，隨著公司的成功發展，債務狀況已經達到了 60% 左右。

And then of course, we realized a $4.8 million gain on our equity investment. So the gross return that our shareholders received on that deal was quite substantial over that five-year time. One of the challenges that we get when you deploy this model, but it's we think in the long run, the best way to deploy capital in our market.

當然，我們的股權投資獲得了 480 萬美元的收益。因此，我們的股東在這筆交易中獲得的五年總回報相當可觀。我們在部署此模型時面臨的挑戰之一，但我們認為從長遠來看，這是在我們的市場中部署資本的最佳方式。

And a really healthy thing is that when you add new portfolio companies, they tend to be on the smaller side a little bit more granular and then the really successful ones and you've seen this in our portfolio for some of our larger positions, we have an opportunity to support them with growth over time.

真正健康的事情是，當你添加新的投資組合公司時，它們往往規模較小，更加精細，然後是真正成功的公司，正如你在我們的投資組合中看到的，對於我們的一些較大的頭寸，我們有機會隨著時間的推移支持它們增長。

Now, ultimately, when they pay off, they can be pretty lumpy and it takes more platform companies to replace those lumpy payoffs. And in this particular quarter, as Chris was pointing out, we happen to have a couple of pretty sizable lumpy payoffs that were out of the ordinary if you will in general.

現在，最終，當他們獲得回報時，回報可能會相當不穩定，需要更多的平台公司來彌補這些不穩定的回報。正如克里斯指出的那樣，在這個特定季度，我們恰好獲得了幾筆相當大的一次性收益，總的來說，這是不同尋常的。

Yes. And so it's hard to predict precisely what our originations will be. And we have a pretty robust portfolio, pretty large portfolio and we get calls from our portfolio, they want to do a large acquisition and we have a big follow-on investment.

是的。因此很難準確預測我們的起源是什麼。我們擁有相當穩健、相當龐大的投資組合，我們接到投資組合公司的電話，他們想要進行大規模收購，而我們則進行大規模的後續投資。

So it's not really something we're able to predict. I mean, I think if you look forward, you say, yes, we've got a lot of cash on hand and, yes, we've got, what we've done historically on our pipeline, but you know, what the redemptions and what the origination is going to be. It's not really something that's, it's something that's really able to be predicted and it's probably not prudent for us to try and predict that.

所以這其實不是我們能夠預測的事情。我的意思是，我認為如果你向前看，你會說，是的，我們手頭上有很多現金，是的，我們已經在歷史上對管道做了什麼，但是你知道，贖回和起源將會是什麼。這實際上並不是一件可以預測的事情，我們試圖預測它可能並不明智。

And Erik, we often talk about how quotas can be lumpy, right? Either that you have a lot of originations and repayments in one quota or even none. And slide 4, is the best slide to sort of illustrate how we think of things, which is long term and being able to grow on a long-term basis rather than quarterly that could be a lot more volatile.

艾瑞克，我們經常談論配額是如何不固定的，對嗎？要么您在一個配額中有很多發起和償還，要么甚至沒有。投影片 4 最能說明我們如何看待事物，即長期發展，能夠長期成長，而不是季度成長，因為季度成長可能會更加不穩定。

I'd add too. And just because it is, obviously something that we as a management team are very focused on the market in general is characterized by lots of add on activity. And that's particularly true at the lower end of the mill market where new M&A activity is way down and it continues to be down.

我也要補充一下。正因為如此，顯然我們作為管理團隊非常關注的市場總體上以大量附加活動為特徵。這對於低端鋼廠市場來說尤其如此，那裡的新併購活動大幅減少，並且持續減少。

We're hopeful that some of the things that have been driving the decline in M&A volume will reverse themselves, as interest rates potentially come down and some other things sort of work in our favor. We're confident that will reach a new equilibrium and that there'll be an uptick in M&A activity and we'll capitalize on that to date most recently.

我們希望，導致併購交易量下降的一些因素能夠扭轉，因為利率可能會下降，而且其他一些因素也會對我們有利。我們相信這將達到一個新的平衡，併購活動將會出現上升趨勢，我們將利用這一點。

If you looked at our portfolio, we certainly were not on an origination pace that was healthy as it was, let's say a couple of years ago, but interestingly enough because M&A activity was down, our repayments were down as well. And we, in most of the last several quarters, many quarters we actually grew through that.

如果你看一下我們的投資組合，你會發現，我們的發起速度肯定不像幾年前那麼健康，但有趣的是，由於併購活動的減少，我們的還款額也減少了。在過去的幾個季度中，我們大部分時間都實現了成長。

So we didn't have as high of origination activity, but we didn't have much repayments. So we were able to grow our portfolio through that in this most recent quarter. Despite pretty healthy production, we happen to have some pretty lumpy repayments. And I think in the long run, in the intermediate to long run, we have a great degree of confidence that with our origination efforts, with the relationships that we have in the market, with those relationships continuing to grow and we're doubling down on all our business development activity that our pace of deployment will outpace any repayments that we have over time.

因此，我們的發起活動並不多，但我們的還款也不多。因此，我們能夠在最近一個季度透過這種方式擴大我們的投資組合。儘管生產狀況相當健康，但我們的還款金額卻相當大。我認為從長遠來看，從中期到長期來看，我們非常有信心，憑藉我們的發起努力、我們在市場上的關係、這些關係的不斷發展以及我們加倍投入所有業務開發活動，我們的部署速度將超過我們隨著時間的推移所償還的任何款項。

That's helpful. I appreciate all the color there. And you're right, you're looking at some of the slides you've put in there, you've demonstrated your ability to do just what you guys have mentioned there.

這很有幫助。我很欣賞那裡的所有色彩。你說得對，從你放在那裡的一些幻燈片來看，你已經證明了你有能力做到你們在那裡提到的事情。

Second line of questioning, looking at slide 8 and I think Henri, you addressed that the opportunities to potentially with the publicly traded notes, I think SAT is at like 6% J, Y and Z are all above 8%. So there's, opportunity to realize some, some savings there if you were to, pay those down or refinance.

第二個問題，請看投影片 8，我認為亨利，您提到了公開交易票據的潛在機會，我認為 SAT 約為 6%，J、Y 和 Z 都高於 8%。因此，如果您償還這些債務或進行再融資，就有機會實現一些儲蓄。

Look at the SBIC ventures, I see the call period column, it says now for those, but I'm curious how the mechanics of potentially calling those or trying to reprice those. Would, you know how that would play out given that those are kind of tied to specific assets or maybe I should have started -- maybe remind me what the current average cost of those adventures are now and maybe that's not even, a topic for us.

看看 SBIC 的風險投資，我看到了贖回期一欄，上面寫著現在的情況，但我很好奇贖回這些投資或嘗試重新定價的機制是如何的。你知道這會如何發展嗎？因為這些都與特定的資產有關，或者也許我應該開始——也許提醒我這些冒險的當前平均成本是多少，也許這甚至不是我們的主題。

No, I think the most important thing when you're in a license is whether you're still in the reinvestment period EriK. So SBIC III, for example, it's a newer license. If we get a repayment, we obviously get cash, but we can redeploy, we would use that cash and redeploy it in new assets.

不，我認為當你獲得許可時最重要的是你是否仍處於再投資期 EriK。例如，SBIC III 是一個較新的許可證。如果我們獲得償還，我們顯然會獲得現金，但我們可以重新部署，我們會使用該現金並將其重新部署到新資產中。

We wouldn't repay the benches once you get outside of your reinvestment period, which we are in SBIC II, you can only use cash for when you get a repayment. You can only use cash for follow-ons of existing investments to continue to support them. So you then have a decision to make when you have cash in a license that that is outside of its reinvestment period.

一旦您超出再投資期，我們就不會償還貸款，我們處於 SBIC II 階段，您只能在獲得償還時使用現金。您只能使用現金進行現有投資的後續投資以繼續支持它們。因此，當您的許可證中現金超出再投資期間時，您需要做出決定。

Whether, you feel like you're going to hold the cash and then, because you believe that the companies and you think they might have some follow-on needs or whether you repay existing SBIC, the benches and the mechanics, how it works is pretty straightforward.

無論您覺得您要持有現金，然後因為您相信這些公司並且您認為他們可能有一些後續需求，或者您是否償還現有的 SBIC、長凳和機制，它的運作方式都非常簡單。

You have two opportunities in a year, at the end of August and at the end of February to make a decision, whether you want to repay the benches. If you decide not to, let's say at the end of August, then you're holding those benches until the next six-month period comes around.

一年中有兩次機會，一次是在八月底，一次是在二月底，來決定是否要償還債務。如果您決定不這樣做，比如說在八月底，那麼您將一直持有這些席位，直到下一個六個月的期限到來。

But, that's why I'd say they're callable because for us, for example, now in February, we'll have a decision to make whether we want to use some of the cash in SBIC II, to repay some of the existing debentures. SBIC II though was a lot of those debentures were issued when rates were pretty low.

但是，這就是為什麼我會說它們是可贖回的，因為對我們來說，例如現在在二月份，我們將決定是否要使用 SBIC II 中的部分現金來償還部分現有債券。不過，SBIC II 的許多債券都是在利率相當低的時候發行的。

And so, there is an arbitrage there to think through on whether, we want to just continue earning, for example, cash and keep it for potential follow-on opportunities or whether we want to repay it. And you know, we'll assess that again come mid-February.

因此，我們需要仔細考慮是否要繼續賺錢，例如，賺現金，並將其保留以備潛在的後續機會，或者是否要償還它。你知道，我們會在二月中旬再次評估這一點。

Got it. Thank you. And then last one for me, you noted, your success in the past with realizing some equity gains with your investments there, remind me just how you think about the potential to realize future gains. Is it really just tied to that the company sells in those transaction? Or do you typically sometimes proactively go out and seek to commoditize a, where fair value might be well above kind of your hold?

知道了。謝謝。最後一點，您提到，您過去透過投資實現了股權收益，這讓我想起了您如何看待未來收益的潛力。這真的僅僅與公司在這些交易中的銷售有關嗎？或者您通常有時會主動出去尋求商品化，而公允價值可能遠高於您的持有量？

On the equity side, typically we're a minority investor in the equity, and we think it's a really kind of key element of our investment strategy to augment our returns on the debt with co-investments in the equity. And most of the relationships that we have, whether they be P/E sponsors or management teams, et cetera, kind of value that alignment of interest that we can achieve by coinvesting in the equity.

在股權方面，通常我們是股權的少數投資者，我們認為透過股權共同投資來增加債務回報是我們投資策略的關鍵要素。我們擁有的大多數關係，無論是私募股權發起人還是管理團隊等等，都具有透過共同投資股權來實現利益一致的價值。

What happens though as a minority investor is, you're not typically controlling the exit, instead, you have the right to exit when the company is sold, or there's some realization along those lines. And that's generally when we realize a return on equity from a strategy standpoint. The way we think about it is that we do such thorough work on these businesses that we feel like as part of that work, we're pretty well equipped to feel like we can make an assessment as to whether the co-investment opportunity in the equity makes sense.

然而，作為少數投資者，你通常無法控制退出，相反，你有權在公司出售時退出，或有類似的情況發生。從策略角度來看，這通常就是我們實現股本報酬率的時候。我們的想法是，我們對這些業務進行了非常徹底的研究，我們覺得作為這項工作的一部分，我們完全有能力評估股權共同投資機會是否合理。

And it's also been our experience that there's, if you were to draw a Venn diagram, in the overlap between what you would like for a really solid credit and what you'd like for a business that likely a very good equity investment, massive overlap.

而且根據我們的經驗，如果你畫一張維恩圖，你會發現，你想要的真正穩固的信用和你想要的可能是一個很好的股權投資的企業之間存在大量的重疊。

There are businesses that generally distinguish themselves in markets that have really strong dynamics, really good management teams producing really high free cash flow characteristics. A lot of the things that we look for in businesses are the very same things that make them good equity investments. And that's the reason why we've been able to get 15% unlevered returns on our portfolio over time. It's the majority of that is coming from the debt return, but certainly getting to 15%. That's been as a result of successful equity co-investment and we continue to think that's a kind of cornerstone of our strategy.

有些企業通常在市場中脫穎而出，因為它們擁有非常強勁的活力、非常優秀的管理團隊，能夠產生非常高的自由現金流特徵。我們在企業中尋找的許多東西正是使其成為良好股權投資的東西。這就是為什麼我們的投資組合能夠長期獲得 15% 無槓桿回報的原因。其中大部分來自債務回報，但肯定達到 15%。這是成功的股權共同投資的結果，我們仍然認為這是我們策略的基石。

Thank you. Thanks for taking my questions today.

謝謝。感謝您今天回答我的問題。

Casey Alexander, Compass Point Research & Trading.

凱西‧亞歷山大 (Casey Alexander)，Compass Point Research & Trading。

Hi, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I do find it interesting when we all sound disappointed when you get large repayments because that's kind of the goal, right?

嗨，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。當你獲得大額還款時，我們所有人聽起來都感到失望，這確實很有趣，因為這就是目標，對吧？

(multiple speakers) I get you're a platform that originates small and repays big. So, I get that. But one question I would ask is that you discussed, kind of the reduction in weighted average yields as being two thirds rate and third higher yielding loans paying off looking at the quarter-over-quarter. It looks like your portfolio yields declined by about 80 basis points.

（多位發言者）我知道你們是一個始於小而回報大的平台。所以，我明白了。但我想問的一個問題是，您討論過加權平均收益率的下降，即三分之二的利率和三分之一的高收益貸款的還款額與上一季度相比有所下降。看起來您的投資組合收益率下降了約 80 個基點。

So, would it be fair to say that you're only about halfway through the resetting function of the [100 rates] that base rates have gone down. You still have about halfway to go. I mean, that seems like the reasonable math to me.

那麼，可以公平地說，你只完成了 [100 個利率] 重置功能的一半，基準利率已經下降了。您還有大約一半的路程要走。我的意思是，對我來說這似乎是合理的計算。

I guess it's a little more than half. I'd say we're more about two thirds of it being reflected in the way our loans reset and when they reset, I'd say about two thirds of the decrease has been reflected. We definitely haven't because there's been a sort of a reset in for us, September already. And so I'd say about two thirds and then there's obviously since quarter end, there has been still a slight decline in [sofa] since then as well.

我猜是一半多一點。我想說，其中約三分之二的減少反映在我們的貸款重置方式上，而當貸款重置時，我想說約三分之二的減少已經反映在我們身上。我們肯定沒有，因為九月我們已經進入了一種重新開始的狀態。所以我想說大約是三分之二，而且顯然自本季末以來，沙發銷量也出現了略微下滑。

So. Right. Well, that's what I meant. I mean, when I look at it across the entire 100 basis points of what the Fed has done, it would seem to me that, that you've reflected about 50 basis points in your results at the end of November and maybe there's another 50basis points to go counting what the Fed has done subsequent to the end of your quarter.

所以。正確的。嗯，我就是這個意思。我的意思是，當我從聯準會採取的全部 100 個基點的行動來看時，在我看來，你們在 11 月底的結果中已經反映了大約 50 個基點，並且可能還有另外 50 個基點來計算美聯儲在本季度末之後所採取的行動。

Yeah, I haven't done like the exact count but I would guess it's again, slightly more than that, probably in the low-60s.

是的，我沒有做過精確的統計，但我猜想它會再多一點，可能在 60 出頭。

Okay. What I think in terms of decline in rates, higher yielding loans paying off clearly a reduced portfolio balance that's going to take some time to build up. Do you still feel comfortable? Or is there may be a quarter or two here where maybe it might seem reasonable to actually underearn the dividend a little bit until you can build a portfolio back up?

好的。我認為，就利率下降而言，高收益貸款顯然會減少投資組合餘額，而這需要一段時間才能累積。你還感覺舒適嗎？或者，在這裡可能有一兩個季度，在你能夠重新建立投資組合之前，實際上稍微少賺一點股息似乎是合理的？

Well, Casey, as you can appreciate, I don't think we've really ever underearned our dividend and that's certainly not something that we would, we would welcome doing.

好吧，凱西，正如你所理解的，我認為我們的股息從來沒有低於預期，這當然不是我們會、我們樂意做的事情。

Obviously, some things are not in our control, like rate of repayments and deployments. But, we do have a, we do have a solid pipeline and we also as Mike was discussing earlier, there's been a real holdback in M&A activity.

顯然，有些事情是我們無法控制的，例如償還率和部署率。但是，我們確實擁有穩固的管道，而且正如麥克之前所討論的，併購活動確實受到了阻礙。

A lot of times, a lot of private equity firms are you holding on to assets that aren't meeting their goals, but there's a tremendous pressure in the system and, it may well be with the new, administration, et cetera, that sort of a new era, different antitrust approaches, different types of things like that there may be a real resurgence in deal activity, coming up and people have been waiting, I mean, there was a, some deals were, have been turned down by the justice department that you really shake your head at why they would, turn down some of these, $8 billion deals being rejected as antitrust type things

很多時候，很多私募股權公司都在持有無法實現其目標的資產，但係統內存在巨大的壓力，而且很可能隨著新政府等新時代的到來，不同的反壟斷方法，不同類型的事情，交易活動可能會真正復甦，人們一直在等待，我的意思是，有些交易被司法部拒絕了，你真的不明白為什麼他們會拒絕其中一些，被拒絕

And so I think they really, I think not to overplay that, but I think on a macro level, I think there's a lot of people on the sidelines that are ready to do more business, going forward. And so the timing and the pace of that is not something that, we are in a position to predict, but we certainly feel that that there's going to be a fair amount of activity going forward and exactly how that shapes up for us on a quarter, on quarter basis. We don't know. But, we don't, we aren't anticipating underearning our dividend, but that's not something we can control.

所以我認為他們真的，我認為不要誇大這一點，但我認為在宏觀層面上，我認為有很多場外人士準備在未來做更多的生意。因此，我們無法預測其時間和速度，但我們確實認為，未來將會有相當多的活動，我們確切地知道這些活動在每個季度會如何發展。我們不知道。但是，我們不會，我們不會預期股息收益低於預期，但這不是我們能夠控制的。

Okay. Now, looking at slide 17 with 77 million of cash in SBIC II. And as Henri said you're no longer in the reinvestment period there. Is it reasonable to think that there could be that much follow-on activity? Or, does it make sense to at least start paying down some of those? And when do you start dusting off the paperwork on SBIIC IV?

好的。現在，我們來看第 17 張投影片，SBIC II 中有 7,700 萬美元現金。正如亨利所說，你們不再處於再投資期。認為會有這麼多後續活動合理嗎？或者，至少開始償還其中一部分是否有意義？您什麼時候開始清理 SBIIC IV 的檔案？

Well, first of all, Casey, I mean, we, I think it's fair to say that I think that the current rate on cash is higher than the cost of the debentures in SBIC II. And so there's a positive arbitrage in not paying off the debt inside of that equation. And so that, if it was the reverse, we probably would decrease it. And so we're watching that very carefully to the extent the extent it goes to a negative arbitrage, it makes sense to pay it off.

嗯，首先，凱西，我的意思是，我認為可以公平地說，我認為當前的現金利率高於 SBIC II 債券的成本。因此，在這個等式中，不償還債務就存在正套利。因此，如果情況相反，我們可能會減少它。因此，我們正在非常仔細地觀察，看看它是否達到了負套利的程度，如果達到，就有必要償還。

And then, and then obviously, we have to look carefully on what type of acquisition activity we're anticipating from those companies with regard to SBIC IV. You should have seen Henri roll his eye that is a major paperwork exercise, but we still have a long way to go on SBIC III.

然後，顯然，我們必須仔細研究我們預期這些公司就 SBIC IV 進行何種類型的收購活動。你應該看看亨利翻白眼的樣子，這是一項重要的文書工作，但我們在 SBIC III 上還有很長的路要走。

And, we've had a very successful program down there. We don't anticipate, having problems with getting the next license. It's more of a timing issue. I think there's also some metrics, right, in terms of investment levels before you start that.

而且，我們在那裡的計劃非常成功。我們預計取得下一個許可證不會遇到問題。這更多的是一個時間問題。我認為在開始之前，就投資水平而言，也有一些指標。

Really, it's been great to --

真的，--

(multiple speakers) too bad, Henry, that's your job, do the paperwork.

（多位發言者）太糟糕了，亨利，那是你的工作，處理文書工作。

But definitely there's a new process in licensing where it's like a repeat, when you're a repeat issuer effectively, that is definitely streamlined the process at the (inaudible) which is wonderful. I know Casey, you're very familiar with it too, which has been great, but we do still have $136 million of the debentures, and we haven't had much realizations in SBIC III yet. And actual realizations in the fund is one of the things I look at very closely as part of that sort of assessment.

但許可方面肯定有一個新的流程，就像重複一樣，當你是一個重複發行人時，這肯定會簡化流程（聽不清楚），這很棒。我知道凱西，你也非常熟悉它，這很好，但我們仍然有 1.36 億美元的債券，而且我們還沒有在 SBIC III 中獲得太多實現。在進行此類評估時，我密切關注的是基金的實際實現。

All right, my last question here is at the end of the quarter that you were going to have very high repayments. I'm not sure that, using selling equity into the market when you have $250 million in cash seems irrational. And that was done right at the end of the quarter and at the beginning of the succeeding quarter.

好的，我的最後一個問題是，在本季末，您的還款額會非常高。我不確定，當你擁有 2.5 億美元現金時，將股票出售到市場上是否不合理。這項工作是在本季末和下一季初完成的。

Can you explain the rationale for that because it doesn't seem rational when compared against the cash balance of $250 million where you're talking about, a negative arbitrage and paying down some of your debt?

您能解釋一下這樣做的理由嗎？因為與您所說的 2.5 億美元的現金餘額、負套利和償還部分債務相比，這似乎並不合理？

Sure, I think that's a good question. That's something that we discussed, substantially internally. But I think if you look at the history of BDCs in general and certainly our BDC, the ability to raise equity, really, which has to do with whether you're able to sell stock at NAV.

當然，我認為這是個好問題。這是我們內部討論過的事情。但我認為，如果你看一下 BDC 的整體歷史，尤其是我們的 BDC，你會發現它籌集股權的能力實際上與你是否能夠以資產淨值出售股票有關。

And in this instance, we were very close and the manager subsidized the sales to get us, to NAV, those are not those moments to sell in size do not come that often. And this adage on Wall Street that I'm sure everyone on this call is familiar with, which is, you don't -- it's hard to, sometimes it's hard to raise money when you need it and it's easier to raise money when you don't need it.

在這種情況下，我們非常接近目標，經理補貼銷售以達到淨資產價值，這種大規模銷售的機會並不常見。我相信參加這次電話會議的每個人都熟悉華爾街的這句格言，那就是，你不需要——這很難，有時當你需要錢時很難籌集資金，而當你不需要錢時籌集資金則更容易。

And equity is permanent capital. And, and when you have the opportunity to raise it, I think, one needs to take advantage of it. And I think, in other calls we've been, it's been discussed like our leverage levels and there's several ways to address leverage.

而股權是永久資本。而且，當你有機會提出這個問題時，我認為，人們需要好好利用它。我認為，在我們參加的其他電話會議中，我們已經討論了我們的槓桿水平，並且有幾種方法可以解決槓桿問題。

And, one is to repay debt and the other is to build up your equity. Obviously, our most desired way to build up equity is through capital gains. And we've done that successfully, throughout our time period here, but also selling new equity, we have done periodically.

一是償還債務，二是累積資產。顯然，我們最希望的累積股權的方式是透過資本利得。在我們整個期間，我們都成功地做到了這一點，而且我們也定期出售新股權。

And so we view the sale of equity as more of a of a long-term strategic decision and not necessarily colored by, what, what our cash balance is at this moment in time. We have $250 million of cash right now, but, there have been times where we've sort of didn't have much cash at all and we're struggling to find liquidity to invest in our pipeline.

因此，我們認為出售股權較多的是長期策略決策，而不一定受我們目前現金餘額的影響。我們現在有 2.5 億美元現金，但有時我們根本沒有太多現金，我們正在努力尋找流動資金來投資我們的管道。

And so, we view the cash as kind of a short-term issue and the equity as really kind of a long-term issue and really the cornerstone for long term growth of our BDC. And, we see -- we don't see, I mean, other than sort of deal volumes, but the opportunity set for the type of investment we make is vast.

因此，我們將現金視為短期問題，而將股權視為長期問題，也是我們 BDC 長期成長的基石。而且，我們看到——我的意思是，除了交易量之外，我們沒有看到，但我們進行的投資類型所蘊含的機會是巨大的。

And so we don't see a slowdown on that on a long-term basis and we see a lot of growth in our future. And so all of that went into the decision.

因此，從長遠來看，我們認為這一趨勢不會放緩，而且未來還會有很大的成長。所有這些都影響到了決策。

That's all my questions. Thank you.

這就是我所有的問題。謝謝。

Mickey Schleien, Ladenburg.

米奇‧施萊恩，拉登堡。

Yes, good morning everyone. First question I'd like to ask is, could you give us a sense of how much more refinancing risk you believe exists in the portfolio, given the current terms available in the market?

是的，大家早安。我想問的第一個問題是，根據目前的市場條款，您能否告訴我們，您認為投資組合中還有多少再融資風險？

That's a good question, Mickey, just in terms of what we could see in terms of pace of repayments, hard to answer it. Candidly, you could see for several quarters we were getting almost no repayments and a lot of that was just due to the fact that there wasn't much M&A activity.

米奇，這是個好問題，但就我們所看到的還款速度而言，很難回答。坦白說，你可以看到，幾個季度以來我們幾乎沒有得到任何還款，這在很大程度上只是因為沒有太多的併購活動。

We have seen some deals that have exited our portfolio because somebody you approach the owner with terms that were just way below the rates that we play in the marketplace. But we don't see generally when we look at our portfolio. Now, a lot of exposure to that dynamic, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I don't think we're highly vulnerable to that.

我們發現有些交易已經退出我們的投資組合，因為有人向業主提出的條款遠低於我們在市場上的利率。但當我們審視我們的投資組合時，我們通常看不到這一點。現在，這種動態受到廣泛關注，但這並不意味著它不存在，但我不認為我們很容易受到這種動態的影響。

Our expectation is that when M&A activity picks up our origination pipeline will pick up in earnest and that will probably be the same time that we'll start to see payoffs kind of resume to their normal pace. And we think that this last quarter was a bit of an anomaly just having some pretty chunky payoffs all at once.

我們的預期是，當併購活動回升時，我們的發起管道將會認真回升，這可能與我們開始看到收益恢復到正常速度的時間相同。我們認為上個季度的情況有點異常，一下子就獲得了相當豐厚的回報。

Okay, that's helpful. Thanks, man. I can question for Henri. Could you give us a sense of where your spillover taxable income stands net of the special? And are you envisioning more special dividends to, to get that number down a little bit and you know, reduce some of the drag from the excise tax?

好的，這很有幫助。謝謝，老兄。我可以替亨利提問。您能否告訴我們您的溢出應稅所得扣除特殊情況後的狀況如何？您是否設想發放更多特別股息，以便稍微降低這個數字，並減少消費稅帶來的一些拖累？

Sure Mickey. So, the most recent dividend that included the special dividend covered our fiscal 2024 so February '24 tax year, and so it's cleaned out our spill over fully. We're now in our February '25, fiscal '25 tax year, and so we're effectively about three quarters in which means it's just over the $3 in spillover at the moment, reflecting the taxable income of the last three quarters.

當然可以，米奇。因此，包括特別股息在內的最新股息涵蓋了我們的 2024 財年，即 24 年 2 月的納稅年度，因此它完全清除了我們的溢出效應。我們現在正處於 2025 年 2 月，即 2025 財年納稅年度，因此實際上已經過了大約三個季度，這意味著目前的溢出額略高於 3 美元，反映了過去三個季度的應稅收入。

And that's still relatively high Henri. And there is that excise tax that you pay on that is the Board thinking about, distributing some more of that to shareholders.

亨利，這個數字仍然相對較高。董事會正在考慮將您繳納的消費稅中更多的部分分配給股東。

Well, I think Mickey on the excise tax, as interest rates have changed and the like the excise tax is 4% and it's, among the cheapest sources of financing out there right now. So, if we were to replace, want to reduce our liabilities, it would make more sense, from a pure economic basis to call some of our higher priced, bonds were 8.7%.

嗯，我認為米奇關於消費稅，由於利率已經變化，消費稅為 4%，這是目前最便宜的融資來源之一。因此，如果我們要替換，想要減少我們的負債，那麼從純粹的經濟基礎來看，將一些價格較高的債券的收益率提高 8.7% 會更有意義。

For example, is more than twice the marginal cost of doing baby bonds today is somewhere in the 7% to 8%. So, the marginal cost of financing is substantially higher than the excise tax. And so the excise tax is a positive very, a good source of financing if you will.

例如，目前發行嬰兒債券的邊際成本是其兩倍多，大約在 7% 到 8% 之間。因此，融資的邊際成本遠高於消費稅。因此，消費稅是一個非常積極的稅收，如果你願意的話，它是一個很好的融資來源。

And in addition, Mickey, excise tax is a point in time tax, it's not an accrual. So in other words, you get no credit for example, distributing something today versus like December 30.

此外，米奇，消費稅是一種時點稅，而不是應計稅。換句話說，如果你今天分發了某些東西，而不是在 12 月 30 日分發，那麼你不會獲得任何獎勵。

Yeah, I agree. I understand. I'm just curious how the Board is thinking about it. And, Chris, I completely agree with you on the debt. I mean, to me it seems like at least some of your debt, it's a no brainer to call, call that given where you could probably deploy that capital, but those are all my questions this morning. Thank you for your time.

是的，我同意。我明白。我只是好奇董事會對此有何看法。克里斯，我完全同意你對債務的看法。我的意思是，對我來說，至少你的部分債務似乎是毫無疑問的，考慮到你可能將這些資金部署到哪裡，但這些都是我今天早上的問題。感謝您抽出時間。

Well, Mickey, I take slight issue with your no-brainer. If you look at the yield curve, the increase of the ten year, is sort of the same, it's going up as much as the short end has gone down and the cost of selling, five year debentures, may even go up in the coming years.

好吧，米奇，我對你的這個不假思索的想法有點異議。如果你看一下殖利率曲線，你會發現十年期債券的增幅大致相同，它的漲幅與短期債券的下跌幅度相同，而五年期債券的銷售成本在未來幾年甚至可能上漲。

So I think there's just a lot of considerations on the absolute cost of debt. And then as you point out, relative what our origination pace is. And again that, it's a new year, it's a new administration, it's a new outlook on many things. And so, we're, we're going just be cautious on making too many dramatic moves until we get a little more information about this next environment we're moving into.

所以我認為，對於債務的絕對成本有很多考慮。然後正如您所指出的，我們的起源速度是相對的。再次強調，這是新的一年，新的政府，對許多事情有新的認識。因此，在我們獲得有關我們即將進入的下一個環境的更多資訊之前，我們會謹慎地避免採取過多的戲劇性舉動。

Yeah, I understand your point, Chris, but you're also, you have the highest leverage amongst all listed BDC. So I was also taking that into consideration, but I appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

是的，我明白你的意思，克里斯，但你也是所有上市 BDC 中槓桿率最高的。所以我也考慮到了這一點，但我感謝您今天早上抽出時間。謝謝。

Bryce Rowe, B.Riley.

布萊斯·羅，B.Riley。

Thanks a lot. Good morning. Most of my questions have been asked and answered. Didn't want to kind of get a feel for some of the marks we saw or movement and marks we saw quarter-over-quarter. The debt portfolio continues to be marked at a very high levels, only a handful that are, even below cost.

多謝。早安.我的大部分問題都已提出並得到解答。不想對我們看到的一些標記或每季看到的運動和標記有所了解。債務組合繼續處於非常高的水平，只有少數甚至低於成本。

But from an equity perspective, I think we did see a few consumer -- more consumer facing investments get marked lower. And obviously you had some offsets with some other businesses getting marked higher, but just wanted to get a feel for, just the overall health of some of the more consumer related consumer related businesses that you have within the portfolio?

但從公平的角度來看，我認為我們確實看到一些面向消費者的投資被標記較低。顯然，您與其他一些業務的標記較高，從而進行了一定的抵消，但只是想了解一下，您投資組合中一些與消費者相關的業務的整體健康狀況？

That's a good question. I think the marks that you saw go down in a handful of our portfolio investments were reflective of a bit softer performance generally. And of course, equity is going to be more whippy as a result of an underperformance than debt will be.

這是個好問題。我認為，您在我們的投資組合中看到的少數投資的下降反映了整體業績表現略有疲軟。當然，由於業績不佳，股票市場將比債券市場更加動盪。

I don't know that I would tie that to some broader perspective we have on the consumer. While it's a good question, we wouldn't necessarily draw that conclusion to the extent that there's a handful of modest write downs in some of our portfolio companies a little bit more specific to just the dynamics of those particular businesses and less in our view, less of a result of macro trends that we're seeing. At least from what, from our vantage point.

我不知道我是否會將其與我們對消費者的更廣泛的視角聯繫起來。雖然這是一個好問題，但我們不一定會得出這樣的結論，因為我們投資組合中的一些公司存在少量適度減值，這更具體到這些特定業務的動態，而不是我們認為的宏觀趨勢的結果。至少從我們的角度來看是這樣。

Okay. That's helpful, Mike. And then maybe a different topic, you all are talking about a solid pipeline from an origination perspective. Did that refer to a pipeline of new opportunities or both new and existing?

好的。這很有幫助，麥克。然後也許是一個不同的主題，你們都從起源的角度談論堅實的管道。這是指一系列新的機會，還是指新的和現有的機會？

Yeah, it's a really good question and we have certainly enjoyed the ability to continue to grow a pretty healthy pace by supporting our existing portfolio companies. We expect to be able to continue to do that a pace that's consistent with what we've done in the past.

是的，這是一個非常好的問題，透過支持我們現有的投資組合公司，我們確實能夠繼續以相當健康的速度成長。我們希望能夠繼續以與過去一致的速度做到這一點。

Generally, we're not seeing as many new platforms. It is interesting though because, when we always, at a time like this, you always kind of pause and try to look back or look across your portfolio and what your pipeline consists of.

整體來說，我們沒有看到那麼多新平台。不過，這很有趣，因為當我們總是在這樣的時刻，你總是會停下來，試著回顧或查看你的投資組合以及你的管道包含的內容。

Right now, if you look at our pipeline, even some of the new opportunities that we're chasing are actually not new opportunities for the sponsor. They're they upsizing that we're getting an opportunity to look at where the sponsors either outgrown their existing lender or something else is happening in the capital structure where we have a chance to come in and replace the existing lender so that would be a further sign of --owners holding on their businesses longer looking to drive value in their existing portfolio, not as much uptick in M&A activity.

現在，如果你看看我們的管道，你會發現，即使我們正在追逐的一些新機會實際上對贊助商來說並不是新機會。他們正在擴大規模，我們有機會觀察發起人是否已經超越了現有貸款人，或者資本結構中發生了其他事情，我們有機會介入並取代現有貸款人，這將進一步表明 - 所有者持有其業務的時間更長，希望在其現有投資組合中推動價值，而不是併購活動的大幅增加。

So I'd say more than half of what we're looking at right now where we have term sheets out and we're chasing things that we're really excited about are not actually new M&A deals, they're, upsizing of some sort.

因此我想說，我們現在所關注的、有條款清單並且我們正在追逐的、我們真正興奮的事情中，有一半以上實際上並不是新的併購交易，而是某種形式的擴大規模。

Okay. One more for me and kind of on the topic of leverage, certainly it's come up on past calls. But we've seen this net overall net debt to equity, come down pretty substantially. Especially this quarter with the healthy repayment activity.

好的。對我來說還有一個關於槓桿的話題，當然它在過去電話會議中出現過。但我們已經看到，整體淨債務與股權比大幅下降。尤其是本季，還款活動十分活躍。

Any thought and if we think about maybe two or three years ago it's certainly a little bit higher than it might have been in '22 but lower than what we saw in 2023 and '24. Any kind of further thought around how you expect to manage balance sheet leverage going forward? Especially given that you do, or you have historically carried over the last couple of years, more leverage than almost all BDCs that are out there? Thanks.

有什麼想法嗎？如果我們想想兩三年前，它肯定會比 2022 年的水平高一點，但低於 2023 年和 2024 年的水平。您對未來如何管理資產負債表槓桿還有什麼進一步的想法嗎？尤其是考慮到您確實擁有，或者在過去幾年中您一直擁有比幾乎所有 BDC 都更大的槓桿？謝謝。

Sure, a couple of thoughts on that and that is definitely something we spent a lot of time thinking about, I think there's some, I'm not going to say unique but some particular aspects of Saratoga that aren't necessarily shared with the whole BDC universe.

當然，我們對此有一些想法，這絕對是我們花了很多時間思考的事情，我認為有一些，我不會說是獨一無二的，但薩拉託加的一些特殊方面不一定與整個 BDC 宇宙共享。

And that is, our large SBIC portfolio and investments and the leverage in those is not counted the same as Baby Bond leverage, for example, in terms of the regulatory leverage. And so I think for regulatory leverage, it's one thing from a total leverage. It's something else and the character of the debt.

也就是說，我們的大型 SBIC 投資組合和投資以及其中的槓桿與嬰兒債券槓桿（例如，在監管槓桿方面）的計算方式不同。因此，我認為，就監管槓桿而言，它與總槓桿是一回事。這是其他的事情，也是債務的性質。

And we've talked about this many times in our quarterly calls is it's really -- leverage, if you have short term leverage, that's asset based and you're up to the limits of what the asset based formulas are and something goes against you can get foreclosed on by your banks, you can have a big accident and it may be something temporary in nature like when COVID hit and things like that but if you have leverage, like for example, the SBIC debt leverage, which those are ten year instruments interest only with no covenants and so a lot of things can happen in ten years.

我們在季度電話會議上多次討論過這個問題，其實就是槓桿。如果你有短期槓桿，那就是基於資產的，而你已經達到了基於資產的公式的極限，如果出現不利情況，你可能會被銀行取消抵押品贖回權，你可能會發生重大事故，這可能是暫時的，比如當 COVID 來襲時等等。但如果你有槓桿，例如 SBIC 債務槓桿，這些都是 10 年期工具，只付利息，沒有契約，所以十年內可能會發生很多事情。

But if your only requirement is to repay the interest, the nature of that debt in terms of being something that's, dangerous if you will to your -- to the health of the overall company is very low. And so and then the Baby Bonds are also very similar in that they are long term instruments, bullet maturities interest only no covenants.

但如果您的唯一要求是償還利息，那麼這種債務的性質對於您整個公司的健康而言，危險性就非常低。因此，嬰兒債券也非常相似，因為它們都是長期工具，一次性償還利息，沒有契約。

So we've got very little, almost all of our debt has no covenants to speak of very, interest, basically, cover our interest, the interest is very small relative to our liquidity, relative to our earnings relative to everything else. So our overall debt structure is incredibly safe relative to, the amount that it is. And so that's the liability side and the asset.

因此，我們的債務幾乎都沒有任何契約，利息基本上都無法涵蓋我們的利息，相對於我們的流動性、相對於我們的收益以及其他一切而言，利息是非常小的。因此，相對於債務金額而言，我們的整體債務結構非常安全。這就是負債方和資產方。

Even our asset-based loan that we have, although they're lowly drawn. So they also have no recourse to the BDC and no BDC covenants in them either, which is a little bit different than.

甚至我們擁有的資產抵押貸款，儘管利率很低。因此，他們也無法向 BDC 尋求幫助，並且其中也沒有任何 BDC 契約，這與…略有不同。

And they're all in special purpose vehicles so that, our leverage is compartmentalized and structured in a very sort of low impact way. Now, our cost of capital as a result of that is slightly higher perhaps than some other BDCs, but it's a whole lot safer.

而且它們都屬於特殊目的載體，因此我們的槓桿被區隔開來，並以一種影響極低的方式建構。現在，我們的資本成本可能比其他一些 BDC 略高，但卻安全得多。

So we've got a very solid, safe long term debt structure with maturities, coming out, anywhere from, a small amount in the next year, but largely it's two to ten year maturities out there. And so -- and, we've been very --there's been a lot of work on our part to get that debt structure and have it out there, in place. And so you want to be very careful changing that.

因此，我們擁有一個非常穩固、安全的長期債務結構，其到期日從明年開始算起，一小部分是到期日，但大部分是兩到十年的期限。所以 — — 而且，我們一直 — — 為建立並實施這種債務結構，我們付出了很多努力。所以你要非常小心地改變這一點。

And then, so that's the liability side, the asset side is something else. And I think as you look at our portfolio, we have talked at length about these discrete portfolio issues, two of which were losses and then the other two, we kind of got back home on, in the last year or so.

這就是負債方，資產方是其他東西。我認為，當您查看我們的投資組合時，我們已經詳細討論了這些離散的投資組合問題，其中兩個是損失，另外兩個，我們在去年左右回到了正題。

But if you look past those and you look at what our portfolio is right now, in terms of, largely, 85%-plus type of senior debt, senior secured, we are, in the most senior lender and we're involved in all, decision making close to the company, et cetera.

但如果你忽略這些，看看我們現在的投資組合，你會發現，基本上 85% 以上的債務都是優先債務，優先擔保債務，我們是最優先的貸款人，我們參與了所有與公司相關的決策，等等。

And then you look at the credit quality and the performance of that portfolio, we have a very solid performing asset base. So we don't, we think that equation is a sound one not. And so I think talking about leverage in isolation or in comparison with other BDCs without talking about these character elements of both the asset side and the liability side, doesn't pay, it's like it's having like a two-dimensional conversation about like a four-dimensional situation.

然後你看看信用品質和投資組合的表現，我們擁有非常穩固的資產基礎。所以我們不認為這個等式是合理的。因此，我認為，孤立地談論槓桿率或與其他 BDC 進行比較而不談論資產方和負債方的這些特徵要素是沒有意義的，這就像是一場關於四維情況的二維對話。

And so we don't view our leverage as particularly high or particularly dangerous. And we view it as a tremendous asset. And the average cost of this leverage structure is, much less than our dividend right now, our dividend yield is like 12%. Our average cost is what five or 6%.

因此，我們並不認為我們的槓桿率特別高或特別危險。我們將其視為一筆巨大的財富。這種槓桿結構的平均成本遠低於我們目前的股息，我們的股息殖利率約為 12%。我們的平均成本是5%或6%。

So our debt cost is very accretive to our equity as structured. And again, if you look at what happened in COVID, just to pick one example, there are a number of, BDCs that had some real issues in terms of having to repay or fund or equitize some of their short term asset based credit facilities where we didn't, we, in the period after COVID, we put a lot of capital to work because we were well structured for that type of environment and that's with a lot of leverage, and that was a tremendous period of growth for us and high quality growth.

因此，按照結構化方式，我們的債務成本對於我們的股權而言非常具有增值作用。再說一次，如果你看看新冠疫情期間發生的情況，僅舉一個例子，你會發現許多 BDC 在償還、融資或股權化部分短期資產信貸工具方面遇到了一些實際問題，而我們沒有。在新冠疫情之後，我們投入了大量資金，因為我們的結構非常適合那種環境，而且槓桿率很高，那對我們來說是一段巨大的增長期，也是高品質的增長期。

And we did some very good investments and we deepen our relationships because we were able to help our sponsors and, in critical times all because of the nature of our debt structure was impervious to that type of event in the short term. And so, we believe we're very well structured, for the environment we're in and we just don't believe that this debt structure is a negative. We think our debt structure is a positive.

我們做了一些非常好的投資，我們加深了我們的關係，因為我們能夠幫助我們的贊助商，並且在關鍵時刻，由於我們的債務結構的性質，我們在短期內不會受到此類事件的影響。因此，我們相信，對於我們所處的環境而言，我們的結構非常好，我們只是不認為這種債務結構是負面的。我們認為我們的債務結構是正面的。

Thank you. That does conclude today's Q&A session. And I would now like to turn the call back over to Christian for closing remarks. Please go ahead.

謝謝。今天的問答環節到此結束。現在我想把發言權交還給克里斯蒂安，請他作最後發言。請繼續。

Okay. We would like to thank everyone for joining us today and we look forward to speaking with you next quarter. Thank you.

好的。我們感謝大家今天的參與，並期待下個季度與你們的交流。謝謝。

Thank you all for joining today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。您現在可以斷開連線。