Cartesian Therapeutics Inc (RNAC) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining the Selecta Biosciences Q2 2023 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to Blaine Davis, Chief Financial Officer of Selecta. Please go ahead.

大家早安，感謝大家參加 Selecta Biosciences 2023 年第二季財報電話會議。 （操作員指示）現在，我想把發言權交給 Selecta 財務長 Blaine Davis。請開始。

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our second quarter 2023 financial results and business update conference call. The press release reporting our financial results is available in the Investors and Media section of Selecta's website at www.selectabio.com and in our quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended June 30, 2023, which was filed earlier this morning with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Joining me on today's call are Selecta's President and Chief Executive Officer, Dr. Carsten Brunn; and Peter Traber, our Chief Medical Officer.

大家早安，感謝您參加我們2023年第二季財務表現及業務更新電話會議。報告我們財務表現的新聞稿可在Selecta網站www.selectabio.com的「投資者與媒體」版塊以及我們今天早上早些時候提交給美國證券交易委員會的截至2023年6月30日的10-Q表季度報告中查閱。今天與我一同參加電話會議的還有Selecta總裁兼執行長Carsten Brunn博士，以及我們的首席醫療官Peter Traber。

During today's call, we will be making certain forward-looking statements, including without limitation, statements about the potential safety, efficacy and regulatory and clinical progress of our product candidates, our financial projections and our future expectations, plans, partnerships and prospects. These statements are subject to various risks that are described in the filings made with the SEC, including our most recent report on Form 10-K and quarterly report on Form 10-Q.

在今天的電話會議中，我們將做出一些前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於關於我們候選產品的潛在安全性、有效性、監管和臨床進展、我們的財務預測以及我們未來的預期、計劃、合作夥伴關係和前景的陳述。這些陳述受我們向美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 提交的文件中所述的各種風險的影響，包括我們最新的 10-K 表格報告和 10-Q 表格季度報告。

You are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements, which speak only as of today, August 17, 2023. And Selecta disclaims any obligation to update such statements, except as required by law even if management's views change.

請注意不要過度依賴這些前瞻性陳述，這些陳述僅截至 2023 年 8 月 17 日有效。即使管理層的觀點發生變化，Selecta 也不承擔更新此類陳述的任何義務，除非法律要求。

With that, I'd now like to turn the call over to Carsten.

說完這些，我現在想把電話交給卡斯滕。

Good morning, and thank you, everyone, for taking the time to join us. Thus far, 2023 has proven to be an important year for ImmTOR, our precision immune tolerance platform, which we are leveraging to develop tolerogenic therapies that selectively mitigate unwanted immune responses.

早安，感謝各位抽出時間與我們分享。到目前為止，2023年對於我們的精準免疫耐受平台ImmTOR來說意義非凡，我們正在利用該平台開發耐受性療法，以選擇性地緩解不必要的免疫反應。

In March, we were thrilled to share positive data on both Phase III trials of SEL-212 in patients with chronic refractory gout. As a reminder, SEL-212 consists of 2 components: first, pegadricase, a potent enzyme that has been observed to reduce serum urate in refractory gout patients who continue to have serious disease symptoms, such as debilitating joint pain and disfiguring tissue deposits of urate called tophi.

今年三月，我們非常高興地分享了 SEL-212 治療慢性難治性痛風患者的兩項 III 期臨床試驗的正面數據。需要提醒的是，SEL-212 由兩種成分組成：首先是培加利酶 (pegadricase)，這是一種強效酶，已被觀察到可以降低難治性痛風患者的血清尿酸水平，這些患者持續存在嚴重的疾病症狀，例如令人虛弱的關節疼痛和損害組織的尿酸沉積物（即痛風石）。

And second, ImmTOR, which is our nano-encapsulated formulation, rapamycin that is designed to condition the immune system to reduce antibody formation to drugs that are administered at the same time. The proposed mechanism of ImmTOR actually is the induction of immune tolerance rather than immunosuppression as with other commonly used drugs.

第二款是ImmTOR，它是我們的奈米封裝雷帕黴素製劑，旨在調節免疫系統，減少同時給藥藥物產生的抗體。 ImmTOR的機制其實是誘導免疫耐受，而不是像其他常用藥物那樣抑制免疫。

In May, we had the opportunity to showcase this positive data during a late breaking session at the European Alliance of Associations for Rheumatology or EULAR Congress. This was the first scientific presentation of our data to the key opinion leaders and physicians who treat patients with gout and who are well aware of the limitations of current treatment options. We were extremely encouraged by the response to the data, which reinforces our belief that SEL-212 could potentially serve as a once-monthly, safe and effective uricase-based intervention for refractory chronic gout without the need for separate oral traditional immunosuppressants.

今年五月，我們有機會在歐洲風濕病協會聯盟（EULAR）大會的專題會議上展示了這些正面的數據。這是我們首次向痛風患者的關鍵意見領袖和醫生們，以及那些深知當前治療方案局限性的專業人士，進行科學的數據展示。我們對這些數據的反應感到非常鼓舞，這進一步堅定了我們的信念：SEL-212 有望成為一種每月一次、安全有效的基於尿酸酶的難治性慢性痛風幹預療法，無需單獨服用傳統口服免疫抑制劑。

We're currently focused on working with Sobi, our SEL-212 development partner, prepare for a Biologics License Application or BLA filing in the U.S. The filing remains on track for the first half of 2024. As a reminder, under our agreement, Sobi is responsible for regulatory and commercial activities in all markets outside of China while Selecta is responsible for ImmTOR manufacturing. Selecta is entitled to receive up to $615 million in remaining milestone payments from Sobi as well as tiered double-digit royalties on net sales.

我們目前正專注於與 SEL-212 開發合作夥伴 Sobi 合作，準備在美國提交生物製劑許可申請 (BLA)。該申請預計將於 2024 年上半年完成。需要提醒的是，根據我們的協議，Sobi 負責中國以外所有市場的監管和商業活動，而 Selecta 負責 ImmTOR 的生產。 Selecta 有權從 Sobi 獲得高達 6.15 億美元的剩餘里程碑付款，以及基於淨銷售額的兩位數分級特許權使用費。

With the potential for peak sales of SEL-212 for the treatment of chronic refractory gout to exceed $700 million, we believe that SEL-212 has the potential to deliver significant and meaningful long-term stockholder values.

SEL-212 用於治療慢性難治性痛風的峰值銷售額可能超過 7 億美元，我們相信 SEL-212 有可能為股東帶來重大且有意義的長期價值。

Importantly, the SEL-212 program serves as a validation for ImmTOR platform, which represents the only immune tolerance platform with positive Phase III data. While we firmly believe that the balance of our pipeline beyond SEL-212 has the potential to generate meaningful returns for our stockholders, we recognize that significant capital and time would be required to advance these assets to value-creating inflection points on our own.

重要的是，SEL-212 計畫是對 ImmTOR 平台的驗證，這是唯一獲得 III 期積極數據的免疫耐受平台。儘管我們堅信，SEL-212 以外的其他產品線有潛力為股東創造可觀的回報，但我們認識到，要將這些資產推進到創造價值的轉折點，需要投入大量的資金和時間。

As such, we've undertaken the decision to suspend further investments in all programs beyond SEL-212 and instead plan to pursue potential licensing and corporate development initiatives for these assets. These include ImmTOR, which can be combined with a variety of therapeutic approaches to reduce immunogenicity across a range of indications; ImmTOR-IL, which combines our proprietary regulatory T cell selective IL-2 candidate with ImmTOR; SEL-302 and AAV gene therapy combined with ImmTOR for the treatment of MMA; Xork in next-generation IgG protease for the mitigation of preexisting anti-AAV antibodies; and our next-generation IgA protease for IgA nephropathy.

因此，我們決定暫停對 SEL-212 以外所有項目的進一步投資，轉而計劃為這些資產尋求潛在的許可和企業開發計劃。這些計劃包括 ImmTOR，它可以與多種治療方法聯合使用，以降低一系列適應症的免疫原性；ImmTOR-IL，它將我們專有的調節性T細胞選擇性IL-2候選藥物與ImmTOR相結合；SEL-302 和 AAV 基因療法與 ImmTOR 聯合用於治療 MMA；Xork 酶用於緩解先前存在的抗 AAV 基因療法與 ImmTOR 聯合用於治療 MMA；Xork 的

To note, we will continue to work with our partner, Astellas, to advance the development of Xork in combination with AT845, Astellas's AAV-based therapy for the treatment of late-onset Pompe disease in adults. As a reminder, we have observed a unique low cross-reactivity profile in Xork that may provide therapeutic benefit to patients with preexisting immunity to AAV.

需要指出的是，我們將繼續與合作夥伴安斯泰來合作，推進Xork與AT845（安斯泰來基於AAV的療法）的聯合開發，用於治療成人晚髮型龐貝病。需要提醒的是，我們觀察到Xork具有獨特的低交叉反應特性，這可能為對AAV已有免疫力的患者帶來治療益處。

We believe our actions today will enable us to preserve capital and also to maintain stockholder interest in SEL-212 without dilution that would have been necessary to support the continued development of the balance of our pipeline assets over the long term.

我們相信，我們今天的行動將使我們能夠保留資本，並維持股東對 SEL-212 的利益，而不會稀釋股權，這對於支持我們管道資產的長期平衡持續發展是必要的。

With that, I'll now turn the call over to Blaine to review second quarter financial results.

現在，我將把電話轉給布萊恩，讓他回顧第二季的財務表現。

Thanks, Carsten. The second quarter financial results are detailed in the press release and 10-Q issued earlier this morning, so let me focus my comments on some key points. Selecta ended the second quarter with cash, cash equivalents, restricted cash, and marketable securities of $115 million. As a result of the initiatives we announced today, we expect these resources will be sufficient to extend our operating requirements into 2027.

謝謝，卡斯滕。第二季的財務表現已在今天早上發布的新聞稿和10-Q報告中詳細說明，因此，我想重點談談一些關鍵點。 Selecta截至第二季末的現金、現金等價物、限制性現金及有價證券總額為1.15億美元。由於我們今天宣布的舉措，我們預計這些資源足以將我們的營運需求維持到2027年。

Collaboration and license revenue for the quarter of 2023 was $5.2 million as compared to $39.3 million in the second quarter of 2022. Collaboration and license revenue was primarily related to the shipment of clinical supply and the reimbursement of costs incurred for the Phase III DISSOLVE program under the license agreement with Sobi.

2023 年季度的合作與授權收入為 520 萬美元，而 2022 年第二季為 3,930 萬美元。合作與許可收入主要與臨床供應的運輸以及根據與 Sobi 簽訂的許可協議報銷第三階段 DISSOLVE 計劃所產生的費用有關。

Research and development expenses for the second quarter of 2023 were $17.8 million versus $19.2 million for the second quarter of 2022. The decrease was primarily related to the capital prioritization initiative that was enacted in the second quarter of 2023.

2023 年第二季的研發費用為 1,780 萬美元，而 2022 年第二季為 1,920 萬美元。減少的主要原因是 2023 年第二季實施的資本優先計劃。

G&A expenses for the second quarter of 2023 were $6.1 million as compared to $6.2 million for the same period in 2022. The decrease was primarily the result of a reduction in expenses incurred for stock compensation. For the second quarter of 2023, we reported a net loss of $11.4 million or a basic net loss per share of $0.07.

2023年第二季的一般及行政費用為610萬美元，而2022年同期為620萬美元。費用減少主要由於股票薪酬支出減少。 2023年第二季度，我們報告淨虧損1,140萬美元，即每股基本淨虧損0.07美元。

Let me turn the call back over to Carsten for some closing comments.

讓我把電話轉回給卡斯滕，請他發表一些結束語。

In summary, we believe the initiatives we have announced today represent the best path forward to maximize long-term stockholder value. We look forward to continuing to work with Sobi in preparation for the planned BLA filing for SEL-212 in patients with chronic refractory gout in the first half of 2024, and for the balance of our pipeline, look forward to exploring opportunities to partner these programs in the coming weeks and months. Now I'd like to open the line to Q&A. Operator?

總而言之，我們相信今天宣布的舉措代表了最大化長期股東價值的最佳途徑。我們期待繼續與Sobi合作，為2024年上半年提交SEL-212用於治療慢性難治性痛風患者的生物製品許可申請（BLA）做準備。同時，為了我們產品線的平衡，我們也期待在未來幾週和幾個月內探索與這些專案合作的機會。現在，我想開始問答環節。請問接線生？

(Operator Instructions) Our first question today comes from Joseph Schwartz from Leerink Partners.

（操作員指示）我們今天的第一個問題來自 Leerink Partners 的 Joseph Schwartz。

I was wondering, since you alluded to the limitations of current treatment options for treatment of refractory gout and Krystexxa sales have been quite strong, I was wondering if you could walk us through how the SEL-212 value proposition will compare to Krystexxa and how you get to your market opportunity estimates.

我想知道，既然您提到了目前治療難治性痛風的治療方案的局限性，而且 Krystexxa 的銷量一直很強勁，我想知道您是否可以向我們介紹一下 SEL-212 的價值主張與 Krystexxa 相比如何，以及您如何得出市場機會估計。

Yes, thanks. That's a great question, Joe. Yes, so we remain very encouraged. We have done some market research recently, which confirmed the potential. And I think we believe that a key differentiator is the fact that this is a monthly potential therapy and where we don't have to use an oral immunosuppressant whereas it's a very targeted approach. With ImmTOR, you basically induce tolerance.

是的，謝謝。喬，這個問題問得好。是的，所以我們仍然非常鼓舞。我們最近做了一些市場調查，證實了它的潛力。我認為，一個關鍵的區別在於，這是一種每月一次的潛在療法，我們不需要使用口服免疫抑制劑，而是一種非常有針對性的治療方法。使用ImmTOR，你基本上可以誘導耐受性。

So we believe that given the strong efficacy profile we have seen in the Phase III with safety and tolerability we've also observed, given the once-monthly dosing, we think there's a tremendous market opportunity. And we're actually encouraged by the strong sales of Krystexxa. I think it's a great backdrop. It's a very attractive market with significant potential.

因此，我們認為，鑑於我們在III期臨床試驗中觀察到的強大療效、安全性和耐受性，以及每月一次的給藥方式，我們認為存在巨大的市場機會。 Krystexxa的強勁銷售表現確實讓我們備受鼓舞。我認為這是一個很好的背景。這是一個極具吸引力、潛力巨大的市場。

Okay. And then which of the pipeline programs do you think could garner the most interest with partners? Have you already had any intelligence from the market for such assets? And what is the time line for securing partnerships? And what form of partnership would you seek to enter versus would be less interesting for Selecta?

好的。那麼您認為哪些在建工程最能引起合作夥伴的興趣呢？您是否已經從市場上獲得了此類資產的資訊？建立合作關係的時間表是怎樣的？哪種形式的合作對 Selecta 來說比較吸引人，哪種形式則不太吸引人？

Yes. So I think we believe, obviously, there is value at all our assets. But I think specifically, we had initially focused on ImmTOR-IL, and we think that remains a very attractive asset for partnering and specifically for use in autoimmune disease. We believe that adding ImmTOR to an IL-2 is really differentiating actually so we're excited about this.

是的。所以我認為，我們所有的資產顯然都有價值。但具體來說，我們最初專注於ImmTOR-IL，我們認為這仍然是一項非常有吸引力的合作資產，尤其是在自體免疫疾病領域。我們相信，將ImmTOR添加到IL-2中確實會帶來真正的差異化，所以我們對此感到興奮。

But we believe Xork holds potential value but also the IgA protease in combination with ImmTOR. So I think all those assets are high value. We have not reached out to potential partners at this point. We'll do so in the coming weeks and months, and we'll keep the market updated.

但我們相信Xork以及IgA蛋白酶與ImmTOR的結合也具有潛在價值。所以我認為所有這些資產都具有很高的價值。我們目前還沒有聯繫潛在的合作夥伴。我們將在未來幾週和幾個月內聯繫，並持續向市場通報最新情況。

Our next question comes from Kristen Kluska from Cantor Fitzgerald.

下一個問題來自 Cantor Fitzgerald 的 Kristen Kluska。

For ImmTOR-IL, curious to hear more about the decision here, given I know how excited you've been on this program. I guess, why not conduct some initial IND-enabling studies in-house? And then look to partner off of this, would that be too expensive with your plans? And then just given the versatility of the program, even perhaps outside of autoimmune, how do you plan on approaching partners?

對於ImmTOR-IL，我很想知道更多關於這個決定的信息，因為我知道你們對這個項目非常興奮。我想，為什麼不先在公司內部進行一些初步的IND申報研究呢？然後再找合作夥伴，這樣對你們的計畫來說會不會太貴？考慮到這個計畫的多功能性，甚至可能涵蓋自體免疫以外的領域，你們打算如何尋找合作夥伴？

Yes. I think the why now is a good question, Kristen. I think we've just looked at the development cost and the time lines to get to a meaningful clinical readout versus the high value of SEL-212 and came to a conclusion that it's in our stockholders' interest to stop all investment basically.

是的。克莉絲汀，我覺得「為什麼現在」這個問題問得好。我想我們剛剛比較了開發成本和獲得有意義的臨床結果所需的時間，以及 SEL-212 的高價值，並得出結論：停止所有投資基本上符合我們股東的利益。

We haven't talked about our partnering strategy, but I think the low-hanging fruit is really what we were focused on initially, which is ImmTOR-IL for the use in autoimmune diseases, I think, because we have a pretty detailed development program in place already. But I think there's also value in some of the larger autoimmune indications where maybe IL-2 alone struggled. I think that's another approach where the differentiation by adding ImmTOR to the mix might be helpful also. But we'll update the market once we had some initial discussions.

我們還沒有討論我們的合作策略，但我認為我們最初真正關注的是那些唾手可得的成果，也就是用於治療自體免疫疾病的ImmTOR-IL，我想，因為我們已經制定了相當詳細的開發計劃。但我認為，在一些單靠IL-2可能難以奏效的較大自體免疫適應症中，ImmTOR也有價值。我認為，在組合中添加ImmTOR來實現差異化也可能有所幫助。不過，一旦我們進行了一些初步討論，我們會向市場更新最新情況。

Okay. And then with your new cash runway guidance, I'm curious how much of this is implementing any potential milestone and/or royalty payments.

好的。然後，根據您新的現金流指引，我很好奇其中有多少是用於實現任何潛在的里程碑和/或特許權使用費。

Yes. Kristen, so the way we thought about the runway, we've only incorporated the next regulatory milestone in the calculation of our cash runway. So as you think about the potential BLA filing in the first half of 2024, we haven't built in any future milestones or royalties to that calculation around 2027.

是的。克里斯汀，我們考慮跑道的方式是，只將下一個監管里程碑納入現金跑道的計算中。所以，當你考慮2024年上半年可能提交的BLA申請時，我們還沒有將任何未來的里程碑或特許權使用費納入2027年左右的計算中。

So we feel that, that runway represents a conservative approach. And as SEL-212 moves forward through the regulatory process, obviously, we will look at that cash runway and look at the initiatives we put into place and the ultimate impact on the cash runway overall. But in '27, we feel very comfortable with and we've only incorporated a single regulatory milestone into the calculation of that runway.

因此，我們認為，這種現金跑道代表了保守的做法。隨著 SEL-212 在監管流程中不斷推進，我們顯然會關注現金跑道，並審視我們實施的措施及其對整體現金跑道的最終影響。但在 2027 年，我們對此感到非常放心，我們只將一個監管里程碑納入了現金跑道的計算中。

Okay, got it. You've certainly kept us on our toes on partnerships in the past, so looking forward to seeing what comes out of that in the next month here.

好的，明白了。過去您在合作方面確實讓我們保持警惕，所以期待下個月看到您的成果。

Our next question comes from John Newman from Canaccord.

我們的下一個問題來自 Canaccord 的 John Newman。

The question is you've got a very interesting structure around the royalties from SEL-212 with Sobi. If I can remember correctly, you basically don't pay taxes on those royalties. My question is, will you look to retain that royalty structure long term in order to bring in potentially substantial royalties that won't be tax-free? Or are you considering monetizing that royalty as it's pretty unique? We see a lot of royalties monetized, but very few, if any, that have a tax-free structure.

問題是，你們與Sobi合作的SEL-212協議的版稅結構非常有趣。如果我沒記錯的話，這些版稅基本上不用繳稅。我的問題是，你們是否會考慮長期保留這種版稅結構，以便獲得可能相當可觀的、但並非免稅的版稅？或者，你們是否考慮將這種版稅貨幣化，因為它非常獨特？我們看到很多版稅都實現了貨幣化，但很少（甚至根本沒有）免稅的版稅。

Yes, that's a great question, John. We haven't made a final decision on this at this point. But you are right, we have tax-optimized this royalty stream, which I think a lot of investors actually haven't fully appreciated. We basically won't pay any taxes up to an amount of about $400 million, actually, so -- which is very significant. But we have not made a decision. I think for now, we just want to maximize the potential value for our stockholders.

是的，約翰，這個問題問得很好。我們目前還沒有就此做出最終決定。不過你說得對，我們已經對這筆特許權使用費進行了稅務優化，我認為很多投資者實際上並沒有充分意識到這一點。實際上，在大約4億美元的金額內，我們基本上不會繳納任何稅款，所以——這非常重要。但我們還沒有做出決定。我認為目前，我們只想最大化股東的潛在價值。

Our next question comes from Gil Blum from Needham & Company.

下一個問題來自 Needham & Company 的 Gil Blum。

With the refocusing of -- just help us understand, with the refocusing of your efforts here, what additional oomph can you get to help SEL-212 along? Is this going to change anything in your current relationship with Sobi? Just to help us understand.

重新調整重點－請幫助我們理解，重新調整你的工作重點後，你能為 SEL-212 帶來哪些額外的動力？這會改變你目前與 Sobi 的關係嗎？請幫助我們理解。

Yes. I don't think there is a change, Gil. We're obviously working closely with Sobi to support the BLA filing. We remain responsible for the ImmTOR manufacturing. But I think what's important as well, we get reimbursed for those efforts, right? So I think that doesn't change in our plans moving forward.

是的。 Gil，我認為沒有改變。我們顯然正在與 Sobi 密切合作，以支持 BLA 的申請。我們仍然負責 ImmTOR 的生產。但我認為同樣重要的是，我們會獲得這些努力的回報，對吧？所以我認為這不會改變我們未來的計劃。

Okay. And maybe kind of as a follow-on, what would you say is the next big thing for us to focus on the Street?

好的。接下來，您認為華爾街下一步應該關注的重點是什麼？

Yes. I think we kind of -- we're putting the focus on SEL-212 and really the next big kind of milestone look for is actually the filing of the BLA in the first half of 2024 and then look for potential partnerships for the remainder of the pipeline.

是的。我認為我們目前重點關注的是 SEL-212，下一個重要的里程碑實際上是在 2024 年上半年提交 BLA，然後為剩餘的專案尋找潛在的合作夥伴。

Our next question comes from Uy Ear from Mizuho.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞穗的 Uy Ear。

Just curious, is there any conditions or financial conditions that would allow you to maybe reverse course? Or are you considering partnership for ImmTORs and everything as a sort of the way going forward?

我只是好奇，有什麼條件或財務條件允許你們改變主意嗎？或者你們是否考慮在ImmTOR和其他方面建立合作關係，以此作為未來的發展方向？

Yes. Obviously, we looked at this very carefully and we believe what we've announced today is the best path forward.

是的。顯然，我們非常仔細地研究了這個問題，我們相信今天宣布的方案是最好的前進方向。

Okay. So how should we kind of think about spending, because this quarter, it didn't look like there was a significant change from first quarter to second quarter. And your cash runway sort of implied that spending would come down significantly. Would it be sort of immediately in the third and fourth quarter? Or it's sort of more in the 2024 time frame?

好的。那我們該如何看待支出呢？因為本季的支出狀況看起來與第一季相比並沒有顯著變化。而您的現金流數據似乎暗示支出將大幅下降。這會在第三季和第四季立即顯現嗎？還是會更晚2024年？

Yes. So a couple of comments there. As you might remember, the way we report R&D expense, it is inclusive of SEL-212-related activities. And as Carsten mentioned, that is a fully reimbursed set of expenses. So while you might see some ups and downs in reported R&D, we also would receive revenue from those reported expenses, specifically associated with SEL-212.

是的。所以有幾點要說明。您可能還記得，我們報告研發費用的方式是包含與 SEL-212 相關的活動。正如 Carsten 所提到的，這是一組全額報銷的費用。因此，雖然您可能會看到報告的研發費用有所波動，但我們也會從這些報告的費用中獲得收入，特別是與 SEL-212 相關的費用。

So on the whole, when you look at overall R&D spend, it will continue to come down as it relates specifically to the initiatives we announced earlier this year as well as the update that we provided today. That will carry forward through the second half of this year and then also throughout 2024 as well. So again, there's a little bit of a nuance there in the sense that the way with which we report the SEL-212-related expenses. Those will obviously continue as we move forward in partnership with Sobi and moving the BLA. But overall, we do expect to see R&D expenses come down as we move forward from here.

因此，總體而言，就整體研發支出而言，它將繼續下降，因為這與我們今年稍早宣布的舉措以及我們今天提供的最新資訊息息相關。這將持續到今年下半年，並持續到2024年。因此，我們報告SEL-212相關費用的方式略有不同。隨著我們與Sobi的合作以及BLA的推進，這些方式顯然也會持續下去。但總體而言，我們確實預期研發費用會隨著我們未來的發展而下降。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Boobalan Pachaiyappan from H.C. Wainwright.

（操作員指示）我們的下一個問題來自 H.C. Wainwright 的 Boobalan Pachaiyappan。

So a few questions from us. So firstly, you indicated that you are interested in potential partnerships to advance the pipeline. Maybe just to take a step back, can you give us a sense of or maybe a high-level update regarding the circumstances that led to the termination of agreements you formally signed with Takeda, Sarepta and Spark? And what implications or what pointers or lessons we can learn from this that could potentially help you as you think about future partnerships?

我們有幾個問題。首先，您表示對潛在的合作夥伴關係感興趣，以推進產品線的建設。為了簡單回顧一下，您能否簡要介紹一下導致您與武田、Sarepta 和 Spark 正式簽署的協議終止的情況？這件事為我們帶來了哪些啟示、哪些建議或經驗教訓，可以幫助您思考未來的合作關係？

Yes, that's a good question. Obviously, if you look at specifically the Takeda partnership, Takeda decided to exit AAV gene therapy and disbanded this unit completely. So they terminated all partnerships, including ours.

是的，這是個好問題。顯然，如果你具體看看與武田的合作關係，武田決定退出AAV基因治療，並徹底解散了這個部門。所以他們終止了所有合作關係，包括我們的。

And Sarepta decided not to move forward. And obviously, we had positive data along the way, as was shown by the milestone payment we received, but they ultimately decided against this. But we're definitely -- we have a lot of experience doing partnerships and we were positive that we'll be able to monetize the various assets. And not only in gene therapy, I think, we have a much broader potential pipeline as well.

Sarepta 決定放棄。顯然，我們一路走來取得了積極的成果，例如我們收到的里程碑付款，但他們最終還是決定放棄。但我們確實——我們在合作方面經驗豐富，並且堅信能夠將各種資產貨幣化。我認為，我們不僅擁有基因治療領域，還有更廣闊的潛在產品線。

Okay. Then on late April, you announced a targeted headcount reduction of 25%. And today, so let's say after implementing today's update, how many employees you might possibly have?

好的。那麼，在四月底，你們宣布了裁員25%的目標。那麼今天，假設實施今天的更新後，你們可能有多少名員工呢？

Yes. So we are not announcing a RIF today and we haven't guided to that. So I think today is really focused on announcing that we are focusing efforts on 212 and that requires obviously quite a bit of headcount, which is reimbursed by Sobi. And we're looking to partner our assets out, so we're not announcing a RIF today at this point.

是的。所以我們今天不會宣布RIF，也沒有對此進行任何指導。所以我認為今天主要是為了宣布我們將重點放在212項目，這顯然需要大量的人員投入，這些人員投入由Sobi報銷。我們正在尋求合作夥伴來整合我們的資產，所以目前我們不會宣布RIF。

And ladies and gentlemen, I'm showing no additional questions. I'd like to turn the floor back over to Dr. Brunn for any closing remarks.

女士們，先生們，我沒有其他問題了。我想把發言權交還給布魯恩博士，請他做最後總結。

Thank you, operator, and thank you, everyone, for joining our call today.

謝謝接線員，也謝謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。

Ladies and gentlemen, with that, we'll conclude today's conference call and presentation. We thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.

女士們，先生們，今天的電話會議和演講到此結束。感謝各位的參與。現在您可以掛斷電話了。