Rithm Capital Corp (RITM) 2022 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Rithm Capital Second Quarter 2022 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to [Phil Sevon]. Please go ahead.

早安，歡迎參加Rithm Capital 2022年第二季財報電話會議。 （操作說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。現在我將會議交給[Phil Sevon]。請開始。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. I would like to thank you for joining us today for Rithm Capital's Second Quarter 2022 Earnings Call. Joining me today are Michael Nierenberg, Chairman, CEO and President of Rithm Capital; Nick Santoro, Chief Financial Officer of Rithm Capital; and Baron Silverstein, President of NewRez.

謝謝大家，早安。感謝各位今天參加Rithm Capital 2022年第二季財報電話會議。今天與我一同出席的有：Rithm Capital董事長、執行長兼總裁Michael Nierenberg；Rithm Capital財務長Nick Santoro；以及NewRez總裁Baron Silverstein。

Throughout the call, we are going to reference the earnings supplement that was posted to the Rithm Capital website this morning. If you've not already done so, I'd encourage you to download the presentation now. I would like to point out that certain statements today will be forward-looking statements. These statements, by their nature, are uncertain and may differ materially from actual results.

在本次電話會議中，我們將多次提及今天早上發佈在Rithm Capital網站上的獲利補充資料。如果您尚未下載，我建議您立即下載。需要指出的是，今天會議中的某些陳述屬於前瞻性陳述。這些陳述本質上具有不確定性，可能與實際結果有重大差異。

I encourage you to review the disclaimers in our press release and earnings supplement regarding forward-looking statements and review the risk factors contained in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC. In addition, we will be discussing some non-GAAP financial measures during today's call. Reconciliations of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in our earnings supplement.

我建議您仔細閱讀我們新聞稿和獲利補充文件中關於前瞻性陳述的免責聲明，並查閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的年度報告和季度報告中的風險因素。此外，我們將在今天的電話會議中討論一些非GAAP財務指標。這些指標與最直接可比較的GAAP指標的調節表可在我們的獲利補充文件中找到。

And with that, I will turn the call over to Mike.

接下來，我將把電話交給麥克。

Thanks, Phil. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us. The second quarter was a period of extreme volatility. I'm very proud of our team as we navigated some of the most difficult markets we've seen in many years. We saw interest rates rise dramatically, credit spreads widen and liquidity in the market has become challenged. We positioned our company for higher rates in our portfolios rose in value. As a result, book value increased to 12.98 from 12.56 before the internalization payment to Fortress.

謝謝菲爾。大家早安，感謝各位的參與。第二季市場波動劇烈。我為我們的團隊感到非常自豪，我們成功應對了多年來最艱難的市場環境。我們目睹了利率大幅上升、信用利差擴大，市場流動性也面臨挑戰。我們已為公司在高利率環境下的投資組合做好了準備，因此投資組合的價值也隨之提升。最終，在向 Fortress 支付內部化款項之前，公司帳面價值從 12.56 增加到 12.98。

Our company, formerly known as New Residential, rebranded to Rithm Capital and internalized its management contract. The result of that transaction will add approximately $0.12 to $0.15 in core earnings as we create synergies not only within the investment manager, but also in our operating business lines. In addition to our synergies, we've been very focused on our expense reduction and happy to announce that our expenses in our mortgage company have been reduced by half.

我們公司（原名 New Residential）已更名為 Rithm Capital，並完成了管理合約的內部化。這筆交易將使我們的核心收益增加約 0.12 至 0.15 美元，因為我們不僅在投資管理方面，而且在營運業務方面也實現了協同效應。除了綜效之外，我們還非常注重降低成本，並欣喜地宣布，我們抵押貸款公司的成本已經減少了一半。

Our approach to investing is that we don't need to be the biggest, we just want to be the best, deploying capital at times where we see real returns. If a division or a sector will not yield great returns for our shareholders, we will pivot and deploy capital elsewhere. A good example of this is how we reduced the capital in our origination business from approximately $2 billion at the time we closed the Caliber transaction to $650 million today.

我們的投資理念是，我們不必成為規模最大的公司，我們只追求做到最好，在能夠獲得真正回報的時機投入資金。如果某個部門或產業無法為股東帶來豐厚的回報，我們會調整策略，將資金投入其他領域。一個很好的例子就是，我們在完成對Caliber的交易時，將貸款發放業務的資本從約20億美元減少到如今的6.5億美元。

As we look at the financial services sector, we believe the next 6 to 12 months will provide us with the opportunity to deploy capital with teens type returns, driving earnings higher and creating more value for shareholders. We'll be adding some great talent in business lines where we have not been as active in the past. As we think about capital, we've been very patient, as I pointed out earlier. We ended the quarter with $1.8 billion of cash and liquidity, and that number stands at roughly $1.65 billion today, and that's after a $200 million payment made to Fortress during the quarter.

展望金融服務業，我們相信未來6到12個月將為我們提供機會，以十幾個百分點的回報率部署資本，從而提高盈利並為股東創造更多價值。我們將在以往不太活躍的業務領域引入一些優秀人才。正如我之前提到的，在資本方面，我們一直非常謹慎。本季末，我們擁有18億美元的現金和流動資金，而截至目前，這一數字約為16.5億美元，這已扣除了本季向Fortress支付的2億美元。

As we go forward, you'll continue to see the same discipline around investing, a terrific investment team, more diversification in our income stream and hopefully, higher earnings. I'll now refer to the supplement, which has been posted online.

展望未來，您將會看到我們一如既往的投資紀律、優秀的投資團隊、更多元化的收入來源，以及有望實現的更高收益。接下來，我將介紹已發佈在網路上的補充資料。

I'm going to start on Page 3. I'm going to get through this pretty quick. And then what we'll do is we'll open up for Q&A because I think the important part of our presentation this morning is not what was, but where we're going on a forward basis. So when we look at our company, obviously, we rebranded to Rithm Capital, and I think that reflects our -- where we are today at the company and also the desire to diversify away from more on the single-family residential side. Our portfolio of operating companies and assets put us in a very unique position that I think differentiates us from some of our peers in the marketplace.

我將從第三頁開始。我會盡快完成這部分內容。之後我們會進入問答環節，因為我認為今天早上演講的重點不是過去，而是我們未來的發展方向。就我們公司而言，我們已經更名為Rithm Capital，我認為這反映了我們公司目前的狀況，也反映了我們希望擺脫對單戶住宅投資過度依賴的多元化策略。我們旗下營運公司和資產組合使我們處於非常獨特的地位，我認為這使我們有別於市場上的其他一些同行。

When we think about capital, we maintain higher levels of cash and liquidity on our balance sheet. That's done purposely as we look at the volatility in the markets, we think about funding and with the Fed obviously in play in the uncertainty, we think we'll have the opportunity to deploy capital at higher ROEs. When we look at the single-family rental business, that's something that we've spoken about on prior earnings calls, we're currently up to 3,700 properties. And when we look at the housing market, with mortgage rates higher and housing starting to really slow down, we think we're going to be able to deploy capital at much higher cap rates.

在考慮資本時，我們會在資產負債表上維持較高的現金和流動性水準。這是有意為之，因為我們關注市場波動，考慮融資問題，而且聯準會顯然會在不確定性中發揮作用，我們認為這將使我們有機會以更高的淨資產收益率 (ROE) 部署資本。說到單戶住宅租賃業務，我們在先前的財報電話會議上已經討論過，目前我們擁有 3700 套房產。而當我們審視房屋市場時，鑑於抵押貸款利率上升且房屋市場開始真正放緩，我們認為我們將能夠以更高的資本化率部署資本。

When we look at the landscape, we do think we're going to start seeing more pockets of opportunity, not only again in some of the traditional business lines that we've been in, but in other areas such as commercial real estate.

從目前的情況來看，我們認為我們將會看到更多機遇，不僅在我們一直從事的一些傳統業務領域，而且在商業房地產等其他領域。

Our track record, very, very strong. Since inception in 2013, our total economic return is 162% or 18% on an annual basis. Page 4, our business overview. Just a little bit of the highlight reel. Since inception of $4.1 billion of dividends, at the time of 6/30, our dividend yield was 10.7%, $7 billion in net equity, $35 billion balance sheet, $600-plus billion of MSRs, a top 5 nonbank originator and servicer. With Genesis, we are an industry-leading business purpose lender, our growth in the single-family rental business. We have complementary operating businesses, which are all listed on the bottom side of right page, and again, our desire to enter other parts of the financial services business, which we'll talk about shortly.

我們的業績記錄非常出色。自2013年成立以來，我們的總經濟報酬率高達162%，年化報酬率達18%。請參閱第4頁，以了解我們的業務概覽。以下是一些亮點：自成立以來，我們已累計派發41億美元的股息；截至6月30日，我們的股息收益率為10.7%；淨資產達70億美元；資產負債表總額達350億美元；抵押貸款服務權（MSR）超過6000億美元；我們是排名前億美元的非銀行貸款機構和服務機構。透過Genesis，我們已成為業界領先的商業貸款機構，並在單戶住宅租賃業務方面取得了顯著成長。我們擁有互補的營運業務，這些業務均列於右頁底部。此外，我們也希望進軍金融服務業務的其他領域，稍後我們將詳細介紹。

Page 5, are highlights from a financial perspective. During the quarter, our GAAP net loss was $3.3 million. That reflects a onetime fee to the external matter to Fortress of $325 million. Earnings $145.8 million in core earnings or $0.31 per diluted share. Dividend $0.25. Cash and liquidity, as I pointed out earlier, $1.8 billion. Net equity, $7 billion. Our book value $12.28 but that reflects a $0.70 hit from the termination fee paid to Fortress.

第5頁是財務方面的亮點。本季度，我們以美國通用會計準則（GAAP）計算的淨虧損為330萬美元。這其中包含支付給Fortress公司的一次性外部費用3.25億美元。核心獲利為1.458億美元，即每股攤薄收益0.31美元。股息為每股0.25美元。如前所述，現金及流動資金為18億美元。淨資產為70億美元。我們的帳面價值為12.28美元，但其中包含了支付給Fortress公司的終止費用造成的0.70美元的損失。

Page 6, business highlights. June 17, Rithm announced the internalization of its management function. We all part of what we'll call NewCo Rithm Capital. We do think, as I pointed out earlier, should add about $0.12 to $0.15 of per diluted share in earnings for our shareholders. We'll see more synergies as we leverage the infrastructure across our entire ecosystem. The rebranding today we -- I believe it's today we trade as our RITM on the New York Stock Exchange. We will actually be ringing the bell on August 10. We're very excited about that. And again, the rebrand to Rithm, we think, just distinguishes our company from one our mortgage company Newrez, but also it will reflect the diversified nature of our company as we go forward. Our focus on profitability is always there. I pointed out earlier, our run rate expenses are down by about 50% in the mortgage company. We'll continue to focus there. When you look at the mortgage company, for the most part, all the integration has already happened, and we continue to focus on ways to drive additional cost savings as well as increased revenue as we go forward.

第6頁，業務亮點。 6月17日，Rithm宣布其管理職能內部化。我們都將成為新公司Rithm Capital的成員。正如我之前提到的，我們認為這將為股東帶來每股稀釋收益增加約0.12至0.15美元。隨著我們充分利用整個生態系統的基礎設施，我們將看到更多協同效應。今天，我們正式更名為Rithm，並在紐約證券交易所上市，股票代號為RITM。我們將於8月10日敲鐘開市。我們對此感到非常興奮。再次強調，我們認為更名為Rithm不僅能將我們公司與我們的抵押貸款公司Newrez區分開來，還能反映我們公司未來的多元化發展。我們始終專注於獲利能力。正如我之前提到的，我們抵押貸款公司的日常營運支出已下降約50%。我們將繼續專注於此。從抵押貸款公司的角度來看，大部分整合工作已經完成，我們將繼續專注於如何進一步節省成本並增加收入。

On the financial side, again, $1.8 billion, 99% of our portfolio is a non-daily mark-to-market. And then when we look at our business, we're totally focused on ROE and IRR and risk-adjusted returns, we reduced our equity in our mortgage (inaudible) in the origination side because, quite frankly, gain on sale is just not there. There's no reason to produce a unit that we don't think is going to make money for shareholders.

財務方面，我們18億美元的投資組合中，99%的資產採用非每日市值計價。在業務方面，我們完全專注於淨資產收益率（ROE）、內部收益率（IRR）和風險調整後的收益。我們減少了抵押貸款業務（聽不清楚）的權益，因為坦白說，出售收益並不理想。我們認為沒有理由繼續維持一個無法為股東帶來利益的業務部門。

Page 7 is really our strategic evolution. As you can see from '13, we started as an Excess MSR owner to where we are today. We think we've made great progress, great job by the team as we've gone from just being what I would call an asset owner into more operating business line.

第 7 頁主要展示了我們的策略演變。正如您從 2013 年的資料中看到的，我們最初是一家超額抵押貸款服務權 (MSR) 持有者，而發展到今天。我們認為我們取得了巨大的進步，這要歸功於團隊的出色工作，使我們從單純的資產持有者轉型為更具營運能力的業務線。

Page 8, really just defines our ability or talks about our ability to manufacture assets. As I pointed out a minute ago, we're not just going to manufacture assets to do that because we're in the operating business, we're going to manufacture assets because we think the return on equity for shareholders is something -- is the reason why we want to manufacture assets. So again, pointing out that the capital in the origination business has shrunk, we could take excess capital there and deploy it to other areas where we think the return on equity is going to be greater than that as it relates to just originating a mortgage loan.

第 8 頁其實只是闡述了我們創造資產的能力。正如我剛才提到的，我們創造資產並非僅僅因為我們從事營運業務，而是因為我們認為股東的權益回報率至關重要——這才是我們創造資產的真正原因。再次強調，鑑於貸款發放業務的資本縮減，我們可以將該業務的過剩資本投入到其他領域，我們認為這些領域的權益回報率會高於單純的抵押貸款發放業務。

The macro environment, there is nothing surprising here. Inflation continues to be a multiyear high. We're starting to see a little bit of softening in some of the economic numbers that are coming out. The Fed 75 basis points back to back, we're expecting 50 in September and probably at least another 50 going forward. Obviously, the economic data is something that we continue to monitor. So how do we think about that? I pointed out earlier that we've been positioned for higher rates to the extent that we believe the market will rally. We will start adding hedges to some of our portfolios. As it relates to our MSR portfolio, just to give you a sense, our gross WACC is 3.6%. So you're probably about 175 basis points out of the money at this point, and I'll talk a little bit about that in a bit.

宏觀環境方面，沒有什麼令人意外之處。通膨率依然處於多年來的高點。我們開始看到一些經濟數據略有放緩的跡象。聯準會連續兩次升息75個基點，我們預期9月還會升息50個基點，未來可能至少還會再升息50個基點。顯然，我們會持續關注經濟數據。那我們該如何看待這種情況呢？我之前提到過，我們已經為更高的利率做好了準備，因為我們相信市場將會上漲。我們將開始在部分投資組合中增加避險策略。就我們的MSR投資組合而言，簡單來說，我們的總WACC為3.6%。因此，目前該投資組合可能處於價外狀態約175個基點，稍後我會詳細解釋這一點。

As we look at the housing market, mortgage rates anywhere from 5.25% to give or take 5.75% right now. We do think we're going to continue to see the slowdown in the housing market. I think I am and I'll talk personally, I'm a little bit more bearish than I think some of the analysts out there. I think when you look at housing, everybody is banking on supply, the lack of supply to keep housing at kind of what I would call these elevated levels or pricing at these elevated levels. Could be wrong, but I do think higher interest rates will lead to lower home prices.

我們觀察目前的房屋市場，抵押貸款利率在5.25%到5.75%之間波動。我們認為房市成長放緩的趨勢將會持續。就我個人而言，我的看法比一些分析師更悲觀。我認為，在房市方面，大家都在押注供應，或者說供應短缺，以維持目前的高位房價。我可能判斷有誤，但我確實認為更高的利率會導致房價下跌。

From a financing standpoint, great shape on our financing side. What I would say there, from a macro standpoint, all financing costs in the marketplace have increased. And when you look at the securitization markets, overall cost of funds have increased. When you look at some of our bank counterparties, some of that -- some of the cost of funds have increased there as well. And again, we'll talk to that in a little bit.

從融資角度來看，我們的融資狀況良好。但從宏觀角度來看，市場上的所有融資成本都在上升。證券化市場的整體資金成本也有所增加。我們的一些銀行交易對手的資金成本也有所上升。稍後我們會詳細討論這一點。

Second here preview, patient approach to investment strategy. We started to deploy some capital on what I would call wider spreads here. We'll continue to do so. If you take a step back and think about our capital, $1.5 billion of cash today, let's assume that we deployed that $1 billion even at a 12% kind of return, that's $120 million of net income on the year. So while we've been very patient on capital, we're going to start to look to opportunities to deploy capital at what we think are some wider spreads here. Continued focus on profitability, MSR valuations. Just to talk to that for a second, we have slowed down our origination in our mortgage company pretty dramatically. Again, because I think we don't see the merit of what I would call real gain on sale there unless we increase our MSR multiples. So when you think about it, we have $600-plus billion of MSRs on our balance sheet with a weighted average gross WACC of 3.6 or 3.7, 5-year season speeds about 11 CPR. When we take a step back, we say, okay, should we produce 6% coupon mortgage rates at kind of a 5 multiple or should we just stay the course. And I think the general view is keep some extra capital, we can deploy capital at wider levels, slowdown origination until we get to a place where we think that the risk returns are warranted and we see gain on sale come back. So we've been very, very cautious there on the origination side.

其次，我們先來看看投資策略的展望，即耐心投資。我們已經開始將部分資金投入到我認為利差較大的投資項目中，並且會繼續這樣做。回顧我們的資本狀況，目前我們有15億美元的現金，假設即使以12%的回報率投資這10億美元，一年下來也只能獲得1.2億美元的淨收益。因此，儘管我們一直對資本持有非常耐心，但我們將開始尋找我們認為利差更大的投資機會。我們將繼續關注獲利能力和抵押貸款服務權（MSR）估值。簡單來說，我們已經大幅放緩了抵押貸款公司的貸款發放速度。原因在於，除非我們提高MSR倍數，否則我們認為出售這些貸款並不會獲得真正的收益。所以仔細想想，我們資產負債表上有超過6000億美元的抵押貸款服務權（MSR），加權平均總成本（WACC）為3.6或3.7，五年周期利率約為11%。我們不妨退一步思考，是否應該以5倍的本益比發行6%的抵押貸款，還是維持現狀？我認為普遍的觀點是保留一些額外資本，以便更廣泛地部署資本，放緩貸款發放速度，直到我們認為風險回報合理，並且出售收益回升。因此，我們在貸款發放方面一直非常謹慎。

And I think as we go forward and we expand into other product areas, you're going to see the diversification of earnings from our company really hit its stride.

我認為，隨著我們不斷向前發展，拓展到其他產品領域，你會看到我們公司的獲利多元化真正步入正軌。

Page 12, a summary of our business segments, origination, servicing, MSR-related investments, we do have some real estate-related investments. The single-family business will grow. Again, we're very patient there. We've increased cap rates quite frankly, as a result of our increase in cap rates, our ability to source at higher cap rates has really slowed down. So we'll continue to monitor that because the market hasn't adjusted. Our loans, remember, we still have $76 billion of call rates on the legacy mortgage market, they are currently out of the money. Any market rally should kind of bring that back in and then other when we look at consumer loans in corporate.

第12頁概述了我們的業務板塊，包括貸款發放、貸款服務、與抵押貸款服務權（MSR）相關的投資，我們確實有一些與房地產相關的投資。單戶住宅業務將會成長。再次強調，我們在這方面非常有耐心。坦白說，由於我們提高了資本化率，我們獲得更高資本化率貸款的能力確實有所下降。因此，我們將繼續密切關注，因為市場尚未做出相應調整。請記住，我們的貸款目前仍有760億美元的傳統抵押貸款到期未償還，這些貸款目前處於虧損狀態。任何市場反彈都應該能讓這些貸款重新獲利，然後我們再來看看企業消費貸款。

Page 13, our MSR portfolio. I'm not going to spend a ton of time on the next number of pages, but I hit the highlights roughly (inaudible) season, 3.6% and 3.7% gross WAC. As you look at Page 14, 11 CPR. Recapture rates are fine. Keep in mind, in the lower refi market, you're going to see less recapture because there's just less refinancing activity going on, and we still believe we're going to be in a purchase market, which lends credence to the Caliber purchase franchise that we have there on the retail side.

第13頁，我們的MSR投資組合。接下來的幾頁我不會花太多時間，但我大致概括一下重點：（聽不清楚）季度，毛利率WAC分別為3.6%和3.7%。請看第14頁，11 CPR。回收率還不錯。請記住，在較低的再融資市場中，回收率會降低，因為再融資活動減少，但我們仍然相信購屋市場會保持活躍，這印證了我們在零售方面的Caliber購屋業務的可靠性。

Page 15, single-family rental business, I pointed out 3,700 units. We're very thoughtful when we think about geographies where we're going with this. And obviously, we'd like to see this grow, but we're going to be patient and we're going to deploy capital at higher cap rates unless the markets tell us otherwise.

第15頁，關於單戶住宅租賃業務，我提到了3700套單位。我們在考慮業務拓展的地域範圍時非常謹慎。顯然，我們希望看到業務成長，但我們會保持耐心，除非市場另有指示，否則我們將以更高的資本化率進行投資。

Page 16, Genesis. $1.3 billion of production in the first half business is performing extremely well. Robert Wasmund and his team have done a great job there. We'll continue to spend a lot of time on that business, think about other areas where we can invest capital to grow the business. The way the company is performing is on track for the way we've underwritten the initial investment.

第16頁，Genesis。上半年13億美元的產值表現非常出色。 Robert Wasmund和他的團隊做得很好。我們將繼續投入大量時間發展這項業務，並考慮其他可以投資以促進業務成長的領域。公司目前的表現符合我們最初投資的預期。

Servicer Advances is not allowed to talk about their Advanced capabilities, they are extremely high. And advance balances are down and continue to remain lower as the consumer continues to perform.

服務商預支款項不能透露其預支款項的具體金額，因為這些款項極高。而且，隨著消費者持續按時還款，預支款項餘額已經下降，並將繼續維持在較低水準。

Page 18, a mortgage company. Pretax income, $552 million. G&A expenses, I told you, we continue to bring those down dramatically. A couple of things to point out here. On the origination side, I think the way that we're trying to forecast this going forward is a flat pretax income number as we go forward. You look in the quarter, we have a pretax loss of $26 million; $23 million of that is due to the legacy cleanup around some scratch and dent stuff on the Caliber side, and then we're exiting some leases, and there's a little bit of severance there. But in general, if you take out these kind of onetime charges, and we hope they're onetime charges, the origination business is going to be run breakeven as we go forward.

第18頁，一家抵押貸款公司。稅前收入5.52億美元。一般及行政費用，正如我之前提到的，我們正在持續大幅降低。這裡有幾點要說明。就貸款發放業務而言，我認為我們目前的預測是稅前收入將保持穩定。本季度，我們的稅前虧損為2600萬美元；其中2300萬美元是由於Caliber業務的一些瑕疵品遺留問題的清理工作造成的，此外，我們還終止了一些租賃合同，產生了一些遣散費。但總的來說，如果扣除這些一次性費用（我們希望它們真的是一次性費用），貸款發放業務未來將實現盈虧平衡。

As we look at the overall company itself to give you some metrics, when we did the Caliber acquisition, the combined company had roughly 13,500 people. Currently, I think we said would give or take, around 7,800 people today. So dramatic reduction in costs, trying to right size for the existing environment, origination business will run flat and the servicing portfolio will continue to generate what we think are very good earnings.

為了讓您了解公司的整體狀況，我們不妨從一些指標著手。收購 Caliber 時，合併後的公司約有 13,500 名員工。而目前，我們估計員工人數約 7,800 人。因此，我們大幅削減了成本，力求在現有環境下調整公司規模。貸款發放業務將保持平穩，而服務業務組合將繼續創造我們認為非常可觀的收益。

And then finally, on Page 19 and 20, the origination and servicing business, I think Baron will talk to this, but when we look at gain on sale, we're starting to see a little bit of what I would call openings for higher gain on sale margins. We continue to work on there. We're very, very disciplined that we're not going to originate a mortgage loan that doesn't make money, just (inaudible) revenue.

最後，在第19頁和第20頁，關於貸款發放和服務業務，我想巴倫會談到這一點，但當我們審視出售收益時，我們開始看到一些提升出售收益率的機會。我們會繼續在這方面努力。我們非常嚴格地執行原則，絕不會發放任何不獲利的抵押貸款，只是為了（聽不清楚）收入。

So with that, I'll turn it back over to the operator, who'll open up for Q&A. And again, I think the big thing for us is where we are today, we have a great business. We're sitting on a lot of cash. Earnings have been very, very good. But I think where we go is Rithm Capital is something that the team is extremely thrilled about. And we're thrilled about it as we strive to drive higher earnings for shareholders and continue to diversify around just the residential side of the mortgage market. So with that, I'll turn it back to the operator.

那麼，接下來我將時間交還給主持人，由他/她來回答問題。再次強調，我認為對我們來說最重要的是我們目前的狀況，我們擁有非常優秀的業務，現金流充裕，獲利狀況也非常好。但我認為，Rithm Capital 的發展方向令團隊無比興奮。我們對此也感到非常興奮，因為我們致力於為股東創造更高的收益，並繼續拓展業務，不再局限於抵押貸款市場的住宅領域。那麼，接下來我將把時間交還給主持人。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Bose George with KBW.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 KBW 的 Bose George。

Can I get an update on book value quarter-to-date? And also, I assume you haven't put on any hedges on the MSR yet? .

能否提供本季至今的帳面價值數據？另外，我假設你們還沒有對MSR進行任何對沖操作？

Yes. So I'll take the second part. Nick will give you a little bit of color, it's still early in the quarter. As far as MSR hedges against a 3.6% gross WACC. We haven't really -- I mean yesterday, we bought a little bit under $1 billion in mortgages. But in general, we haven't gone out to hedge the MSR because our MSRs, we feel, are different. There is that delta between where we're going to start to see prepays pick up, but we think that we're pretty far away from that. As far as book value, Nick, you want to take that?

是的。那我來回答第二部分。尼克會為你補充一些細節，畢竟現在才季度初。關於MSR對沖3.6%的加權平均資本成本（WACC），我們並沒有真正進行對沖——我的意思是，昨天我們購買了略低於10億美元的抵押貸款。但總的來說，我們還沒有對沖MSR，因為我們認為我們的MSR情況有所不同。雖然我們預計提前還款的情況還會持續一段時間，但我們認為目前距離這種情況還很遠。尼克，關於帳面價值，你想談談嗎？

Book value given change in rates is approximately, call it, $11.75 to $12 a share.

考慮到利率變化，每股帳面價值約為 11.75 美元至 12 美元。

Okay. Great. And then actually, what are your thoughts on the bulk MSR market in terms of seeing opportunities there?

好的，太好了。那麼，您對大宗MSR市場有什麼看法？您認為那裡有哪些機會？

So we can manufacture our own MSRs, and I pointed that out when we think about our origination business. I think we have capped the multiple that we put on MSRs no matter what rates do because, again, we don't want to get into a period of time. You've seen massive moves in rates. So I think the high we saw in 10-year rate was about 3.45% this morning, it's 2.55%. So if you put on a 6-and-change coupon mortgage, you're going to see the likelihood of that going away and you got to be able to recapture that. So we've kept our -- what I would call our multiples. We will see, I think what you're going to see in the mortgage company business, you're going to see people roll over. You're going to see companies go out of business. We've seen a little bit of that already. That will or could present an opportunity for us to acquire MSRs. I don't think we're there yet. We do have an appetite if the multiples are right. But the one thing both to keep in mind is your cost of capital on MSR financing and everything else put you at roughly kind of 10-ish percent levered return. So I think we're going to be really patient unless the MSR market cheapens up here. I think there's other places to deploy capital. And we have $650 billion of them or something like that.

所以我們可以自行設定抵押貸款服務權（MSR），我在考慮貸款發放業務時也提到過這一點。我認為無論利率如何波動，我們都對MSR的倍數設定了上限，因為我們不想陷入長期的困境。利率已經出現了大幅波動。今天早上我們看到的10年利率最高點約為3.45%，現在已經降至2.55%。因此，如果你發放了6年多的票面抵押貸款，你會發現這種貸款很可能到期，你需要有能力彌補損失。所以我們維持了我們——我稱之為——的倍數。我認為，在抵押貸款公司行業，你會看到一些公司倒閉，一些公司終止合作。我們已經看到了一些這樣的情況。這可能會為我們帶來收購MSR的機會。但我認為我們還沒有到那個階段。如果估值倍數合適，我們確實有興趣。但要注意的是，MSR融資的資本成本加上其他因素，槓桿報酬率大概只有10%左右。所以，除非MSR市場價格大幅下降，否則我們打算保持耐心。我認為還有其他投資方向。我們手頭上有大約6500億美元的資金。

Okay. Great. Actually one quick one on servicing technology. Any update there in terms of what you guys are going to do?

好的，太好了。其實還有一個關於維修技術的問題。你們在這方面有什麼新的進展嗎？

Yes. I think that we continue to evaluate that. I think we're getting closer to making a decision. So stay tuned.

是的。我認為我們會繼續評估這個問題。我覺得我們離做出決定越來越近了。敬請期待。

Our next question will come from Eric Hagen with BTIG.

下一個問題將來自 BTIG 的 Eric Hagen。

Congrats on the transition here. A couple here. So with respect to the capital in the origination segment, should we think of that being sort of a baseline amount the company would need to keep there at its current size or the current amount that you're originating? And what might change that? And then how should we think about the growth in Genesis in the SFR business against the backdrop of what you discussed as lower home prices and just a bumpier environment in general?

恭喜你們順利完成過渡。這裡有幾個問題。關於貸款發放業務的資本，我們應該把它看作是公司在現有規模下需要維持的基本資本額，還是指你們目前發放的貸款額？哪些因素可能會改變這一點？另外，鑑於你們提到的房價下跌和整體環境波動，我們該如何看待Genesis在單戶住宅業務方面的成長？

First of all, capital in the mortgage company will go up if gain on sale goes up. I mean, I think it's pretty binary, or unless we could figure out a better way to generate more kind of net income, not just gross revenue for the business. As you think about Genesis, those guys are pros. They've been around a long time. Charles Sorrentino and I were out on the West Coast last week, we spent a couple of days together. The ability to do different things in the real estate industry is something that I think gets us extremely excited to work with the Genesis folks. So I think we'll see things expand. We want to be cautious about where we are in the cycle as it relates on the building side because you are going to start to see that slow down. But I think with our capital, with the relationships that those folks have, I think you can see some good growth there. It may be in a nontraditional way than they're currently doing that. And then finally, on the SFR space, we've raised our cap rates. We're not acquiring a lot of properties here just because we think home prices will slide a little bit. We're in the market with a securitization now so we monitor what the ROE is on that in conjunction with where we've acquired the properties. So I think you'll see a more patient approach from us than potentially others and maybe the way that others look at their capital. But we'd like to see cap rates go up a little bit here based on where rates are. And if not, we may pivot to lower cap rates. But I think for now, we're going to be a little bit patient here because we think there's other areas we can make more money by deploying that capital.

首先，如果出售收益增加，抵押貸款公司的資本也會增加。我的意思是，我認為這幾乎是非此即彼的，除非我們能找到更好的方法來增加淨收入，而不僅僅是毛收入。說到Genesis，他們都是業界專家，經驗豐富。我和Charles Sorrentino上週去了西海岸，一起待了兩天。能夠在房地產行業做不同的事情，正是我們非常興奮能與Genesis團隊合作的原因。所以我認為我們會看到業務擴張。我們希望謹慎看待建築業目前所處的周期階段，因為建築業的成長速度將會放緩。但我認為憑藉我們的資本和人脈關係，我們能夠實現良好的成長。或許會採用一種與他們目前不同的非傳統方式。最後，在獨棟住宅領域，我們提高了資本化率。我們並沒有因為預期房價會小幅下跌就大量收購房產。我們目前持有證券化資產，所以我們會密切關注證券化的資產報酬率，並結合我們收購的房產進行投資。因此，我認為我們採取的策略可能會比其他公司更有耐心，也可能與其他公司看待資本的方式有所不同。我們希望這裡的資本化率能夠根據目前的利率水準略有上升。如果利率沒有上升，我們可能會轉向資本化率較低的投資。但就目前而言，我們會保持耐心，因為我們認為可以透過投資其他領域來獲得更高的收益。

Yes. That's helpful. When we think about a market yield applied to the existing MSR portfolio, where would you say that shakes out right now?

是的，這很有幫助。當我們考慮將市場收益率應用於現有的抵押貸款服務權（MSR）投資組合時，您認為目前的結果如何？

Probably 10-ish would be my guess based on where speeds are and our gross WACs on a levered basis.

根據目前的市場速度和我們以槓桿計算的總WAC，我估計大概是10左右。

On a levered basis, how about an unlevered basis before you apply the levered?

在應用槓桿之前，先考慮無槓桿情況，那麼在應用槓桿之前，無槓桿情況又如何呢？

8-ish. Some of the season stuff could be a little bit higher, but it's -- you're probably in and around 10.

大概8左右。有些季節性的東西可能會稍微貴一點，但——你大概會在10左右。

Would you say there's a meaningful difference in ROE between the MSRs that you service yourself versus subservice from others?

您認為自行服務的MSR與委託他人提供服務的MSR在ROE方面是否有實質差異？

You mean our subservicing?

您是指我們的二級服務嗎？

The loans that you service in-house, the mortgage company versus the (inaudible).

您公司內部管理的貸款，抵押貸款公司與（聽不清楚）相比。

Yes. So I mean, listen, we made some early purchases a few years back from United Wholesale and Quicken. Obviously, those guys are very good in refinancing anything and everything they possibly can. But they're already burned out. So I would say that our own servicing stuff is probably a little bit better here. We have subservicing with Ocwen, those portfolios continue to perform extremely well.

是的。我的意思是，聽著，幾年前我們從United Wholesale和Quicken那裡收購了一些資產。顯然，他們非常擅長為任何可能進行再融資的資產提供再融資服務。但他們現在已經筋疲力盡了。所以我認為我們自己的服務體係可能會更好一些。我們與Ocwen有二級服務合作，這些投資組合的表現一直非常出色。

Our next question will come from Doug Harter with Credit Suisse.

下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的道格·哈特。

Michael, as you look to deploy your capital, do you think the opportunities are going to come in kind of asset purchases or potentially acquisitions of other companies? .

邁克爾，當你考慮如何部署你的資本時，你認為機會會來自資產收購還是收購其他公司？

It depends. I think on the asset side, we're waiting for the shoe to drop if the shoe does drop. So I think to one of the earlier questions around MSR values, if MSRs went down, obviously, we would sit there and pounce on them and buy more MSRs. I think for us, it's a total return play. At some point, you want to deploy a little bit more capital. I think even if you listen to some of the comments from Jamie Dimon around the stress test and you think about bank capital, that will have an impact on the entire system as people think about financing their business. You see the banks taking breakdowns on some of their leveraged loan positions. That will have an impact on how people finance. So maintaining higher levels of capital. But we do think there could be some opportunities that even down the road that may come out of the banks. I'd love to see it more on the asset side, quite frankly than we would see on the operating side. But to the extent that there is some great opportunities there, we'll look at either one. I think we'll be a little bit agnostic, but buying distressed assets typically is the way that folks have made a lot of money in the past.

這要看情況。我認為在資產方面，我們正在等待時機，看看情況是否會改變。所以，對於之前關於MSR價值的問題，如果MSR下跌，我們顯然會抓住機會，買更多MSR。我認為對我們來說，這是一項總回報策略。在某個時候，我們需要投入更多資本。我認為，即使你聽取了傑米·戴蒙關於壓力測試的一些評論，並考慮到銀行資本，這也會對整個體系產生影響，因為人們會考慮如何為企業融資。你會看到銀行的一些槓桿貸款部位出現違約。這將影響人們的融資方式。因此，維持更高的資本水準至關重要。但我們確實認為，未來銀行可能會出現一些機會。坦白說，我更希望看到這些機會出現在資產方面，而不是營運方面。但如果確實存在一些絕佳的機會，我們會考慮兩者。我認為我們會保持一定的中立態度，但購買不良資產通常是人們過去賺很多錢的方式。

And then as you look at the commercial real estate opportunity, I guess where is Rithm today as far as kind of having the right people in place to be able to take advantage of that opportunity? Is that something you need to hire? Or I guess where are you in that opportunity?

那麼，當我們審視商業不動產領域的機會時，我想問的是，Rithm 目前在人才儲備方面處於什麼位置，能否抓住這一機會？你們是否需要招募人才？或者說，你們在這一機遇中處於什麼位置？

So the one thing that I would tell you, doing this for a long period of time, and we want great people to be part of our organization. I think we're at a point we're pretty close. We will be making an announcement hopefully within the next couple of weeks to 30 days about a team or a partnership in the commercial real estate space. While saying that between Charles Sorrentino and myself who have been in the business for a long, long time, evaluating commercial real estate debt, I think, is something that we have extreme expertise in doing. But we're currently -- we're pretty close on being ready to announce something to the marketplace. It's not buying a company, this is bringing on a team or developing a partnership with a team of who we think are A+ quality folks who are going to help us drive more earnings for shareholders.

所以，我想告訴大家的是，我們長期從事這項業務，並且希望優秀的人才加入我們的組織。我認為我們已經非常接近目標了。我們希望在未來幾週到30天內宣布一項關於商業房地產領域團隊或合作關係的計劃。我和查爾斯·索倫蒂諾在這個行業已經從業多年，評估商業房地產債務是我們擁有極其豐富經驗的領域。目前，我們即將向市場宣布一些消息。這不是收購一家公司，而是組建一個團隊或與我們認為非常優秀的團隊建立合作關係，他們將幫助我們為股東創造更多收益。

Our next question will come from Giuliano Bologna with Compass Point.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Compass Point 的 Giuliano Bologna。

I guess going back a little bit around the MSR discussion. I'm curious if it would make sense -- on the hedging side, if it makes sense to hedge out more of your new production or are there subsets of the portfolio that make sense to hedge in the sense that the new production maybe coming on is obviously coming on at a much higher WAC. But would it make sense to go out and hedge some of those new production as opposed to the most aggregate portfolio?

我想稍微回顧一下關於MSR的討論。我很好奇，從避險的角度來看，對沖更多的新增產量是否合理？或者說，投資組合中是否存在一些子集值得對沖，因為新增產量的加權平均成本（WAC）顯然要高得多。那麼，對沖部分新增產量，而不是對整個投資組合進行對沖，是否更有意義呢？

Yes, great question. But here's what I would say, we've slowed down our production in the mortgage company. So we have less to hedge overall at the higher WAC level than our existing portfolio. And I point that out because we have $600-odd billion of these things. While saying that, it's a very valid point, and we are looking to -- I don't know if this is just a bear market rally the 2.55% on 10s. I mean, these market moves are extremely dramatic. The one thing I would say about the MSR business is that these MSRs are much more -- they have a lot less negative duration today than they did going back a 1 year or 2 ago. So what I think you'll see from us is we'll put on more hedges against some of the higher coupon stuff, which is, I think, really where your question is. I think that being mindful should -- I mean we do think The Fed is going to get to -- we've been spending some time with some of our economic consultants, I'll call them. We think the Fed is going to get to 3.5%, 4% on funds rate. Does that mean 10s are going to sit at 2.55%, I don't think so. So we want to make sure that we're not trapped here. But I do think the MSR asset will not go up as much in value. So we have to be mindful of market moves and rates. While saying that again, though, some of the higher coupon stuff with mortgage spreads where they are, we'll add some mortgages against those. We started that yesterday.

是的，問得好。但我想說的是，我們已經放緩了抵押貸款公司的生產速度。因此，與現有投資組合相比，我們在較高加權平均成本（WAC）水準下需要對沖的資產總額有所減少。我之所以強調這一點，是因為我們持有這類資產約6,000億美元。話雖如此，這確實是一個非常合理的觀點，我們正在關注——我不知道這是否只是熊市反彈，畢竟10年期債券的收益率達到了2.55%。我的意思是，這些市場波動非常劇烈。關於抵押貸款服務權（MSR）業務，我想說的是，這些MSR目前的負久期比一兩年前要短得多。因此，我認為你會看到我們採取更多對沖措施，以應對一些高息債券，我認為這就是你真正想問的。我認為保持謹慎是必要的——我的意思是，我們認為聯準會最終會採取行動——我們一直在和一些經濟顧問討論這個問題，我姑且稱他們為顧問。我們認為聯準會的聯邦基金利率可能會達到3.5%到4%。但這是否意味著10年期公債殖利率會維持在2.55%左右？我不這麼認為。所以我們要確保自己不會被困在這裡。但我確實認為抵押貸款服務權（MSR）資產的價值不會大幅上漲。因此，我們必須密切注意市場走勢和利率變化。不過，話雖如此，考慮到目前的抵押貸款利差，我們會增加一些高息債券。我們昨天就開始這麼做了。

That makes sense. Then just a little bit of a different question around the MSRs. You guys have roughly $2 billion (inaudible) deposits. I'm curious roughly what kind of yield you're generating on those deposits? And then just a general sense of like what would the best index be historically the closest to tracking roughly around where the yield you're able to generate on those custodial deposits?

明白了。那我就再問一個關於抵押貸款服務權（MSR）的問題。你們的存款大約有20億美元（聽不清楚）。我很好奇你們這些存款的收益率大概是多少？另外，從歷史數據來看，哪一個指數最能大致反映你們託管存款的收益率水準？

So we have -- I think the number is something -- it depends on the time of the month, but I would assume something in the vicinity of $12 billion on average during the month. And those are generating something fairly close to the funds rate -- Fed funds. Very much on top of working with our bank counterparties to make sure that we're getting appropriate rates on our deposits -- a big part of the business.

所以，我們每月大約有120億美元的存款——具體數字取決於月份，但我估計平均每月大約在120億美元左右。這些存款產生的利率相當接近聯邦基金利率。此外，我們還與銀行交易對手密切合作，確保我們的存款獲得合適的利率——這是我們業務的重要組成部分。

Yes. No, I said it's a big part of our -- it's one of the things the inputs into our business right now, it's a big deal.

是的。不，我說過，這是我們業務的重要組成部分——這是我們目前業務投入的關鍵因素之一，這非常重要。

That's very helpful. It can be a big driver in MSR earnings power, but I'll jump back in the queue.

這很有幫助。它能大大提升MSR的收益能力，但我還是會重新排隊。

Our next question will come from Trevor Cranston with JMP Securities.

下一個問題將來自 JMP Securities 的 Trevor Cranston。

Okay. A question on the gain on sale margin. They bumped up pretty nicely in the second quarter. I guess, as you guys have moved through July so far, would you say that margins are kind of holding steady at the level you had for the second quarter? How should we think about how that's trending heading into 3Q?

好的。關於銷售利潤率，我有個問題。第二季銷售利潤率成長相當不錯。我想，隨著七月的推進，你們覺得利潤率是否基本上維持在第二季的水準？我們該如何看待第三季的趨勢？

Yes. At least in July, we have seen margins maintain or increase and that includes July. So we've continued to do that in the strategy that Michael talks about.

是的。至少在7月份，我們看到利潤率保持穩定或成長，7月份也是如此。所以我們一直在執行麥可所說的策略。

Okay. Got it. And then on the MSR portfolio, it looks like the prepaid speed was about 11 in the quarter. Can you kind of give an outlook on kind of where you think speed will settle in with -- in terms of turnover speeds, assuming that the portfolio stays pretty substantially out of the money?

好的，明白了。關於MSR投資組合，本季預付股的周轉速度似乎在11左右。您能否預測一下，假設該投資組合長期處於虧損狀態，那麼最終的周轉速度會穩定在什麼水準？

Your guess is as good. I think it's like 10.67%. Now I don't -- I think it depends on your view of housing. I don't -- I still believe -- our view on housing is probably a little bit more negative like I said earlier than the market is. Your speeds are all going to be related to turnover. We have 5- to 6-year season kind of MSRs. So I don't know, I think we should stay something around here. Keep in mind, our DTC business is fairly large around recapture. So to the extent that we could actually pick up some of these folks that may even sell their house and go to purchase a new home. We have the Caliber side, we have both the DTC side and the retail side on the Caliber side. So that should help us. So hopefully, we stay in and around these levels. I think the other thing is it depends on what the absolute level of rates settle in. Think about it? We were talking before about a 3.5% to 4% terminal funds rate and you got a 2.85% to 2.90% front-end 2-year note. We do think rates will push higher. And again, like I mentioned, I don't know if this is a bear market rally. The market is a little bit ahead of (inaudible) people just really playing the slowdown.

你的猜測也差不多。我覺得大概是10.67%。不過，我覺得這取決於你對房地產市場的看法。我仍然認為，就像我之前說的，我們對房地產市場的看法可能比市場整體看法更悲觀。你的利率走勢都與房屋週轉率有關。我們的抵押貸款服務權（MSR）週期是5到6年。所以，我覺得我們應該維持在這個水平附近。記住，我們的直接面向消費者（DTC）業務在房屋回收方面相當龐大。因此，我們有可能吸引一些賣掉房子去買新房子的客戶。我們有Caliber平台，Caliber平台既有DTC業務也有零售業務。這應該對我們有幫助。所以，希望我們能保持在目前的水平附近。我覺得還有一點，這取決於利率的最終穩定水準。想想看？我們之前討論過3.5%到4%的最終基金利率，而你們拿到的是2.85%到2.90%的兩年期短期國債利率。我們認為利率還會繼續走高。而且，就像我剛才提到的，我不知道這是否是熊市反彈。市場似乎有點超前於那些真正押注經濟放緩的人。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Michael Nierenberg for any closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。現在我把會議交還給麥可‧尼倫伯格，請他作閉幕致詞。

So thanks, everybody, for joining. Again, super excited about the next chapter in our lives. The ticker is RITM, that goes live today. And again, I think the most important thing to get -- I think we had a great quarter. We're sitting on a lot of cash. The most important thing to get out of this call is, as we pivot to Rithm, I think you'll see more of an investment manager style than just being all in on the resi side. And we look for great opportunities. It doesn't mean we won't get bigger in resi, but we look for great opportunities to deploy capital. Appreciate your support. Have a great rest of the summer. Any questions, you know how to reach us. Thank you very much.

感謝各位的參與。再次強調，我們對即將開啟的新篇章感到無比興奮。股票代號是RITM，今天正式上線。再次強調，我認為最重要的是──我們上個季度業績非常出色，目前現金流充裕。這次電話會議最重要的訊息是，隨著我們轉型為Rithm，我認為你們將會看到我們更像投資經理，而不僅僅是專注於住宅投資。我們會尋找絕佳的投資機會。這並不意味著我們不會擴大住宅投資規模，而是我們會尋找更合適的資本配置機會。感謝大家的支持。祝大家有個美好的夏天。如有任何疑問，歡迎隨時與我們聯繫。非常感謝。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect your lines.

會議到此結束。感謝各位參加今天的報告。現在您可以斷開線路了。