羅致恆富 (RHI) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello and welcome to the Robert Half third-quarter 2024 conference call. Today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) Our host for today's call are Mr. Keith Waddell, President and Chief Executive Officer of Robert Half; and Mr. Michael Buckley, Chief Financial Officer.

您好，歡迎參加 Robert Half 2024 年第三季電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製中。（操作員說明）今天電話會議的主持人是 Robert Half 總裁兼執行長 Keith Waddell 先生；和首席財務官邁克爾·巴克利先生。

Mr. Waddell, you may begin.

瓦德爾先生，您可以開始了。

Hello, everyone. We appreciate your time today. Before we get started, I'd like to remind you that the comments made on today's call contain forward-looking statements, including predictions and estimates about our future performance. These statements represent our current judgment of what the future holds.

大家好。我們非常感謝您今天抽出時間。在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，今天電話會議中的評論包含前瞻性陳述，包括對我們未來業績的預測和估計。這些陳述代表了我們目前對未來的判斷。

However, they're subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the forward-looking statements. These risks and uncertainties are described in today's press release and in our most recent 10-K and 10-Q filed with the SEC. We assume no obligation to update the statements made on today's call.

然而，它們面臨風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述有重大差異。這些風險和不確定性在今天的新聞稿以及我們最近向 SEC 提交的 10-K 和 10-Q 中進行了描述。我們沒有義務更新今天電話會議中的聲明。

During this presentation, we may mention some non-GAAP financial measures and reference these figures as adjusted. Reconciliations and further explanations of these measures are included in a supplemental schedule to our earnings press release. For your convenience, our prepared remarks for today's call are available in the Investor Center of our website, roberthalf.com.

在本次示範中，我們可能會提到一些非公認會計準則財務指標，並引用這些調整後的數據。這些措施的調節和進一步解釋包含在我們收益新聞稿的補充時間表中。為了您的方便，我們為今天的電話會議準備的發言稿可在我們網站 roberthalf.com 的投資者中心取得。

For the third quarter of 2024, companywide revenues were $1.465 billion, down 6% from last year's third quarter on an as-reported basis and down 8% on an as-adjusted basis. Net income per share in the third quarter was $0.64 compared to $0.90 in the third quarter one year ago. Revenues and earnings for the third quarter exceeded our expectations, driven by very strong results from Protiviti, which posted sequential and year-on-year revenue gains.

2024 年第三季度，全公司營收為 14.65 億美元，按報告數據比去年第三季下降 6%，按調整後下降 8%。第三季每股淨利潤為 0.64 美元，而一年前第三季為 0.90 美元。第三季的營收和利潤超出了我們的預期，這得益於甫瀚諮詢非常強勁的業績，該公司公佈了連續和同比的收入成長。

While client budgets remain constrained and decision cycles extended, business confidence levels are improving, aided by continuing progress on inflation and the beginning of a global rate-cutting cycle. This is reflected in our most recent weekly sequential results, which have been stable and consistent for the past 12 to 14 weeks.

儘管客戶預算仍然受到限制且決策週期延長，但在通膨持續進展和全球降息週期開始的幫助下，商業信心水準正在改善。這反映在我們最近的每週連續結果中，該結果在過去 12 至 14 週內一直穩定且一致。

We continue to be confident, both in our ability to weather the current climate and in our future growth prospects as the macro landscape improves. We remain well-positioned to capitalize on emerging opportunities and support our clients' growth initiatives with the strength of our industry-leading brand, people, Technology, and unique business model that includes both professional staffing and business consulting services.

我們對應對當前氣候的能力以及隨著宏觀形勢改善的未來成長前景充滿信心。憑藉我們行業領先的品牌、人才、技術以及包括專業人才和業務諮詢服務在內的獨特業務模式的優勢，我們仍然能夠充分利用新興機會並支持客戶的成長計劃。

Cash flow from operations during the quarter was $130 million. In September, we distributed a $0.53 per share cash dividend to our shareholders of record for a total cash outlay of $54 million. Our per share dividend has grown 11.3% annually since its inception in 2004.

本季營運現金流為 1.3 億美元。9 月份，我們向記錄在案的股東派發了每股 0.53 美元的現金股息，現金支出總額為 5,400 萬美元。自 2004 年成立以來，我們的每股股息每年增長 11.3%。

The September 2024 dividend was 10.4% higher than the prior year. We also acquired approximately 800,000 Robert Half shares during the quarter for $49 million. We have 8.3 million shares available for repurchase under our board-approved stock repurchase plan. Return on invested capital for the company was 18% in the third quarter.

2024 年 9 月的股利比前一年高出 10.4%。我們還在本季以 4,900 萬美元的價格收購了約 80 萬股 Robert Half 股票。根據董事會批准的股票回購計劃，我們有 830 萬股可供回購。第三季該公司的投資資本報酬率為18%。

Now I'll turn the call over to our CFO, Mike Buckley.

現在我將把電話轉給我們的財務長邁克·巴克利。

Thank you, Keith, and hello, everyone. As Keith noted, global revenues were $1.465 billion in the third quarter. On an as-adjusted basis, third quarter talent solutions revenues were down 13% year over year. U.S. talent solutions revenues were $725 million, down 13% from the prior year's third quarter.

謝謝你，基思，大家好。正如 Keith 指出的那樣，第三季全球收入為 14.65 億美元。經調整後，第三季人才解決方案營收年減 13%。美國人才解決方案營收為 7.25 億美元，比去年第三季下降 13%。

Non-U.S. talent solutions revenues were $229 million, also down 13% year over year. We conduct talent solutions operations through offices in the United States and 17 other countries. In the third quarter, there were 64.1 billing days compared to 63.1 billing days in the same quarter one year ago. The fourth quarter of 2024 has 61.6 billing days compared to 61.1 billing days during the fourth quarter of 2023.

非美國人才解決方案收入為 2.29 億美元，年比也下降 13%。我們透過美國和其他 17 個國家的辦事處開展人才解決方案營運。第三季的計費天數為 64.1 個，而一年前同一季度的計費天數為 63.1 個。2024 年第四季的結算日為 61.6 個，而 2023 年第四季為 61.1 個結算日。

Currency exchange rate fluctuations during the third quarter had a de minimis impact on reported revenues. Contract talent solutions bill rates for the third quarter increased 3.2% compared to one year ago, adjusted for changes in the mix of revenues by functional specialization, currency, and country. This rate for the second quarter was 3.1%.

第三季的貨幣匯率波動對報告收入產生了微乎其微的影響。在根據職能專業化、貨幣和國家的收入組合變化進行調整後，第三季合約人才解決方案的帳單費率比一年前增長了 3.2%。第二季的成長率為 3.1%。

Now let's take a closer look at results for Protiviti. Global revenues in the third quarter were $511 million, $421 million of that is from the United States and $90 million is from outside of the United States.

現在讓我們仔細看看甫瀚諮詢的結果。第三季全球營收為 5.11 億美元，其中 4.21 億美元來自美國，9,000 萬美元來自美國以外地區。

On an as-adjusted basis, global third-quarter Protiviti revenues were up 5% versus the year-ago period. U.S. Protiviti revenues were up 8%, while non-US Protiviti revenues were down 8%. Protiviti and its independently owned member firms serve clients through locations in the United States and 29 other countries.

經調整後，甫瀚諮詢第三季全球營收較去年同期成長 5%。美國甫瀚諮詢收入成長了 8%，而美國以外的甫瀚諮詢收入則下降了 8%。甫瀚諮詢及其獨立擁有的成員公司透過位於美國和其他 29 個國家的分支機構為客戶提供服務。

Turning now to gross margin. In contract talent solutions, third-quarter gross margin was 38.9% of applicable revenues versus 39.8% in the third quarter one year ago. Conversion revenues, or contract to hire, were 3.3% of revenues in the quarter compared to 3.5% of revenues in the quarter one year ago.

現在轉向毛利率。在合約人才解決方案中，第三季毛利率佔適用收入的 38.9%，而一年前第三季為 39.8%。轉換收入（或僱傭合約）佔本季收入的 3.3%，而一年前該季度佔收入的 3.5%。

Our permanent placement revenues were 12.9% of consolidated talent solutions revenues in both the current quarter and the third quarter of 2023. When combined with contract talent solutions gross margin, overall gross margin for talent solutions was 46.8% compared to 47.5% of applicable revenues in the third quarter last year.

本季和 2023 年第三季度，我們的永久安置收入佔綜合人才解決方案收入的 12.9%。與合約人才解決方案毛利率結合，人才解決方案的整體毛利率為 46.8%，而去年第三季適用收入的毛利率為 47.5%。

For Protiviti, gross margin was 24.6% of Protiviti revenues compared to 26.2% of Protiviti revenues one year ago. Adjusted for the amount of deferred compensation that is completely offset by investment income related to employee deferred compensation trusts or the deferred compensation investment income offset, gross margin for Protiviti was 25.8% for the quarter just ended compared to 25.6% last year.

對甫瀚諮詢來說，毛利率佔甫瀚諮詢收入的 24.6%，而一年前則為 26.2%。在根據與員工遞延薪酬信託相關的投資收益或遞延薪酬投資收益抵消完全抵消的遞延薪酬金額進行調整後，甫瀚諮詢剛結束的季度的毛利率為 25.8%，而去年為 25.6%。

Enterprise SG&A costs were 34.9% of global revenues in the third quarter compared to 31.8% in the same quarter one year ago. Adjusted for the deferred compensation investment income offset, Enterprise SG&A costs were 33.3% for the quarter just ended compared to 32.5% last year. Talent solutions SG&A costs were 45.2% of talent solutions revenues in the third quarter, versus 39.3% in the third quarter of 2023.

第三季企業 SG&A 成本佔全球營收的 34.9%，而一年前同一季為 31.8%。經遞延薪資投資收益抵銷調整後，剛結束的季度企業 SG&A 成本為 33.3%，去年為 32.5%。第三季人才解決方案 SG&A 成本佔人才解決方案收入的 45.2%，而 2023 年第三季為 39.3%。

Adjusted for the deferred compensation investment income offset, talent solutions SG&A costs were 42.8% for the quarter just ended compared to 40.4% last year. Third-quarter SG&A costs for Protiviti were 15.6% of Protiviti revenues compared to 14.7% of revenues for the same quarter last year.

根據遞延薪酬投資收入抵銷進行調整後，剛結束的季度人才解決方案的銷售、一般管理成本為 42.8%，而去年為 40.4%。甫瀚諮詢第三季的銷售、管理及行政費用佔甫瀚諮詢收入的 15.6%，去年同期為 14.7%。

Operating income for the quarter was $61 million. Adjusted for the deferred compensation investment income offset, combined segment income was $90 million in the third quarter. Combined segment margin was 6.2%. Third-quarter segment income from our talent solutions divisions was $38 million with a segment margin of 4%.

該季度營業收入為 6,100 萬美元。調整遞延補償投資收入抵銷後，第三季合併部門營收為 9,000 萬美元。合併部門利潤率為 6.2%。我們的人才解決方案部門第三季的分部收入為 3,800 萬美元，分部利潤率為 4%。

Segment income for Protiviti in the third quarter was $52 million with a segment margin of 10.2%. Our third-quarter 2024 income statement includes $29 million as income from investments held in employee deferred compensation plans. This is completely offset by an equal amount of additional employee deferred compensation costs, which are reflected in SG&A expenses and direct costs. As such, it has no effect on our reported net income.

甫瀚諮詢第三季的分部營收為 5,200 萬美元，分部利潤率為 10.2%。我們的 2024 年第三季損益表包括 2,900 萬美元的員工遞延薪酬計畫投資收入。這完全被等量的額外員工遞延薪酬成本所抵消，這些成本反映在銷售管理費用和直接成本中。因此，它對我們報告的淨利潤沒有影響。

Our third-quarter tax rate was 31% compared to 30% one year ago. At the end of the third quarter, accounts receivable were $885 million and implied days sales outstanding, or DSO, was 54.4 days.

我們第三季的稅率為 31%，而一年前為 30%。第三季末，應收帳款為 8.85 億美元，隱含應收帳款週轉天數 (DSO) 為 54.4 天。

Before we move to fourth quarter guidance, let's review some of the monthly revenue trends we saw in the third quarter and so far in October, all adjusted for currency and billing. Contract talent solutions exited the third quarter with September revenues down 14% versus the prior year compared to a 13% decrease for the full quarter. Revenues for the first two weeks of October were down 12% compared to the same period last year.

在我們轉向第四季度指導之前，讓我們回顧一下我們在第三季度和 10 月迄今為止看到的一些月度收入趨勢，所有趨勢均根據貨幣和帳單進行了調整。合約人才解決方案第三季退出，9 月營收較上年同期下降 14%，整個季度下降 13%。10 月前兩週的營收與去年同期相比下降了 12%。

Permanent placement revenues in September were down 7% versus September of 2023. This compares to a 13% decrease for the full quarter. For the first three weeks of October, permanent placement revenues were down 19% compared to the same period in 2023. We provide this information so that you have insight into some of the trends we saw during the third quarter and into October. But as you know, these are very brief time periods. We caution reading too much into that.

與 2023 年 9 月相比，9 月的永久安置收入下降了 7%。相比之下，整個季度下降了 13%。10 月的前三週，永久安置收入與 2023 年同期相比下降了 19%。我們提供這些資訊是為了讓您深入了解我們在第三季和十月看到的一些趨勢。但如您所知，這些時間段非常短暫。我們警告大家不要過度解讀這一點。

With that in mind, we offer the following fourth-quarter guidance: revenue, $1.34 billion to $1.44 billion; income per share, $0.47 to $0.61. The midpoint revenues of $1.39 billion are 7% lower than the same period in 2023 on an as-adjusted basis. The major financial assumptions underlying the midpoint of these estimates are as follows: revenue growth on a year-over-year as-adjusted basis, talent solutions down 9% to 13%; Protiviti, up 3% to up 6%; overall, down 4% to 8%.

考慮到這一點，我們提供以下第四季度指引：營收 13.4 億美元至 14.4 億美元；每股收益為 0.47 美元至 0.61 美元。調整後的中點營收為 13.9 億美元，比 2023 年同期下降 7%。這些預測中位數的主要財務假設如下：調整後營收年增，人才解決方案下降 9% 至 13%；甫瀚諮詢，上漲3%至6%；總體而言，下降了4%至8%。

Contract margin percentage for contract talent, 38% to 40%; Protiviti on an as-adjusted basis for the deferred compensation investment income offset, 25% to 27%; overall, 38% to 40%. SG&A as a percentage of revenues adjusted for the deferred compensation investment income offset: talent solutions, 43% to 45%; Protiviti, 14% to 16%; overall, 33% to 35%.

合約人才的合約保證金比例為38%至40%；甫瀚諮詢在調整後的基礎上將遞延補償投資收益抵銷了25%至27%；整體而言，38%至40%。SG&A 佔收入的百分比，根據遞延薪酬投資收入抵銷進行調整：人才解決方案，43% 至 45%；甫瀚諮詢，14%至16%；整體而言，33%至35%。

Segment income for talent solutions, 2% to 4%; Protiviti, 10% to 12%; overall, 4% to 6%. Tax rate, 28% to 30%, shares $102 million to $103 million. 2024 capital expenditures and capitalized cloud computing costs $80 million to $90 million with $20 million to $25 million in the fourth quarter.

人才解決方案的細分收入，2%至4%；甫瀚諮詢，10%至12%；整體而言，4%至6%。稅率為 28% 至 30%，份額為 1.02 億至 1.03 億美元。 2024 年資本支出和資本化雲端運算成本為 8,000 萬至 9,000 萬美元，其中第四季為 2,000 萬至 2,500 萬美元。

All estimates we provide on this call are subject to the risks mentioned in today's press release and in our SEC filings.

我們在本次電話會議中提供的所有估計均受到今天的新聞稿和美國證券交易委員會文件中提到的風險的影響。

Now I'll turn the call back over to Keith.

現在我將把電話轉回基斯。

Thank you, Mike. Although sales cycles are still elongated, job openings remain significantly above historical averages indicating substantial pent-up demand for talent. While the tightness of the labor supply has eased somewhat, the unemployment rate in the United States for those with a college degree is still only 2.3% with rates for many in-demand accounting, finance, and IT positions even lower.

謝謝你，麥克。儘管銷售週期仍然延長，但職缺仍顯著高於歷史平均水平，顯示對人才的大量被壓抑的需求。雖然勞動力供應緊張的情況有所緩解，但美國擁有大學學歷的人的失業率仍然只有2.3%，許多緊缺的會計、金融和IT職位的失業率甚至更低。

With lower inflation and widespread expectations of further rate cuts, the NFIB’s Small Business Optimism Index has been up five of the last six months. That said, the NFIB’s Uncertainty Index is at all-time highs, in part due to the upcoming US elections. Many economists are making upward revisions to their forecasts, and as we get past the elections, the overall macro environment should begin to improve.

由於通膨下降以及對進一步降息的普遍預期，NFIB 的小型企業樂觀指數在過去六個月中上升了 5 個月。儘管如此，NFIB 的不確定性指數仍處於歷史高位，部分原因是即將到來的美國大選。許多經濟學家正在向上修正他們的預測，隨著選舉結束，整體宏觀環境應該會開始改善。

As business confidence improves, hiring urgency returns, project demand accelerates, deferred backlogs and growth initiatives are re-prioritized, and labor churn normalizes. This puts pressure on client resources that are often already stretched thin and creates hiring and consulting demand that traditionally sets the stage for very strong gains for us in the early part of growth cycles.

隨著商業信心的改善，招募緊迫性回歸，專案需求加速，推遲的積壓和成長計畫被重新優先考慮，勞動力流失正常化。這給通常已經捉襟見肘的客戶資源帶來了壓力，並創造了招募和諮詢需求，傳統上這為我們在成長週期的早期階段獲得非常強勁的收益奠定了基礎。

We continue to invest in Technology and innovation to fuel our core business. Our proprietary “Recruiters plus award-winning AI” strategy offers significant added value to our clients.

我們繼續投資於技術和創新，以推動我們的核心業務。我們專有的「招募人員加上屢獲殊榮的人工智慧」策略為我們的客戶提供了顯著的附加價值。

Protiviti reported very strong results for the quarter, achieving sequential and year-over-year revenue growth. Each of its major solutions areas performed well, particularly the regulatory risk and compliance and internal audit solutions for its financial services industry clients.

甫瀚諮詢本季的業績非常強勁，實現了環比和年收入成長。其每個主要解決方案領域均表現良好，特別是為其金融服務業客戶提供的監管風險與合規性以及內部審計解決方案。

Gross margin and segment income both exceeded expectations, growing more than 250 basis points sequentially on top of similar growth last quarter, reflecting ongoing efficient resource management. This includes the growing leverage of contractors with talent solutions, which represent over 40% of the total hours billed by Protiviti, a key part of our enterprise-wide competitive advantage.

毛利率和部門收入均超出預期，在上季度類似增長的基礎上連續增長超過 250 個基點，反映出持續有效的資源管理。這包括擁有人才解決方案的承包商的影響力不斷增加，佔甫瀚諮詢總工時的 40% 以上，這是我們企業範圍競爭優勢的關鍵部分。

Protiviti’s prospects and pipeline remain very strong, and we expect continued year-on-year revenue growth in the fourth quarter with broad participation across solutions and industries and from collaboration with talent solutions.

甫瀚諮詢的前景和管道仍然非常強勁，我們預計，隨著解決方案和行業的廣泛參與以及與人才解決方案的合作，第四季度的收入將繼續同比增長。

Aging workforce demographics and increasing client preference for flexible resources play directly into our strengths. We have weathered many economic cycles in the past, each time emerging to achieve higher peaks. We are even more confident about our future as our unique portfolio of talent solutions and consulting services positions us well as market confidence returns.

勞動力人口老化和客戶對彈性資源的偏好不斷增加，直接發揮了我們的優勢。過去我們經歷過許多經濟週期，每次都達到更高的高峰。我們對自己的未來更加充滿信心，因為我們獨特的人才解決方案和諮詢服務組合使我們能夠獲得市場信心回報。

As we have done historically, we will continue to invest in our people, our Technology, our industry-leading brand, and our unique business model to strengthen our ability to connect people to meaningful work and provide clients with the talent and subject matter expertise they need to confidently compete and grow.

正如我們過去所做的那樣，我們將繼續投資於我們的員工、技術、行業領先的品牌和獨特的商業模式，以加強我們將人們與有意義的工作聯繫起來的能力，並為客戶提供他們所需的人才和主題專業知識。

Finally, we would like to thank our people across the globe, whose efforts have made possible a number of new accolades. Most recently, Robert Half was named one of Fortune’s Best Workplaces in Consulting & Professional Services, one of PEOPLE’s Companies that Care, and one of the World’s Best Employers by Forbes. We also received five prestigious Academy of Interactive & Visual Arts w3 Awards for recent enhancements made to our Robert Half mobile app, highlighting our ongoing commitment to innovation.

最後，我們要感謝全球各地的員工，他們的努力使我們獲得了許多新的榮譽。最近，Robert Half 被《財星》雜誌評為諮詢和專業服務領域最佳工作場所之一、《人物關懷公司》之一，以及《富比士》全球最佳雇主之一。由於最近對 Robert Half 行動應用程式的改進，我們還獲得了五項享有盛譽的互動與視覺藝術學院 w3 獎，突顯了我們對創新的持續承諾。

Now Mike and I'd be happy to answer your questions. Please ask just one question and a single follow-up as needed. If there's time, we'll come back to you for additional questions.

現在，麥克和我很樂意回答您的問題。請僅提出一個問題並根據需要進行一次後續行動。如果有時間，我們會回覆您詢問其他問題。

(Operator Instructions) Andrew Steinerman, JPMorgan.

（操作員指示）Andrew Steinerman，摩根大通。

Hi, Keith. Surely, I heard you talk about US business confidence a few times, particularly at your clients and surveyed more generally. Have new orders for contract staffing picked up in recent weeks at Robert Half?

嗨，基斯。當然，我曾多次聽到您談論美國商業信心，特別是在您的客戶和更廣泛的調查中。最近幾週羅致恆富是否收到了新的合約工訂單？

Well, we've said for the last 14 weeks, we've had very stable and consistent weekly results and that's the longest consecutive period of flatness that we've had in the last two years. And so given than that's better than it has been, where it was drifting down week-on-week and month-over-month. I would say, yes, it's modest. But again, it's nice to see the duration of the flatness that we've seen, which is better than it's been.

嗯，我們說過，在過去 14 周里，我們的每週結果非常穩定且一致，這是過去兩年中我們連續最長的一段時間平坦期。因此，現在的情況比以前好，當時的情況是逐週、逐月下降。我會說，是的，這是謙虛的。但同樣，很高興看到我們所看到的平坦度的持續時間，這比以前更好。

And is it one area of contract staffing which you think will rebound sooner? Or do you think your professional contract business will rebound together?

您認為這是否是合約工領域會更快反彈的一個領域？或者您認為您的專業承包業務會一起反彈嗎？

Well, if you look at our business now, I would say our higher skilled management resources and Robert Half technology, the higher piece of that are doing somewhat better and it'd be our expectation that, that relative trend would continue.

好吧，如果你現在看看我們的業務，我會說我們的高技能管理資源和 Robert Half 技術（其中較高的部分）做得更好，我們期望這種相對趨勢將持續下去。

Okay. Thanks, Keith.

好的。謝謝，基斯。

Mark Marcon, Robert W. Baird Company.

馬孔 (Mark Marcon)，羅伯特W貝爾德公司 (Robert W. Baird Company)。

Good afternoon, Keith and Mike, Wondering, can you talk a little bit about Protiviti, a little bit more about Protiviti? It sounds like you saw some really nice acceleration if we take a look at the U.S., we went from 3.1% growth to 7.6% growth. Internationally, we went from negative 15.9% to negative 8.1%. And the comps for the fourth quarter are actually a little bit easier than they were in the third quarter, but the revenue guidance would basically suggest that we're not going to see acceleration relative to the third quarter.

下午好，Keith 和 Mike，想知道，你們能談談 Protiviti 嗎？如果我們看一下美國，您會看到一些非常好的加速，我們的成長率從 3.1% 成長到 7.6%。在國際上，我們從負 15.9% 降至負 8.1%。第四季的業績實際上比第三季要容易一些，但收入指引基本上表明我們不會看到相對於第三季的加速。

So I'm wondering, given all the positives that we're seeing, including the commentary on the financial services and particularly what you're doing in terms of internal audit and risk compliance, why wouldn't we see continued acceleration on the Protiviti side?

因此，我想知道，鑑於我們看到的所有積極因素，包括對金融服務的評論，特別是您在內部審計和風險合規方面所做的工作，為什麼我們看不到甫瀚諮詢的持續加速邊？

So the answer is very simple. They have a couple of large projects that are winding down and the pace of that wind down is a little uncertain, but they conservatively estimated a wind-down rate, and that has the impact on top of the holiday impact you always see in the fourth quarter, it's the shortest quarter.

所以答案很簡單。他們有幾個大型專案正在逐步結束，結束的速度有點不確定，但他們保守地估計了結束速度，這對你在第四季度總是看到的假期影響產生了影響季度，這是最短的季度。

Protiviti even more so than talent solutions, their clients go through a soft close and principally take the entire week of Christmas off. Their full-time staff take a lot of choice time off. And so the combination of it's a shorter quarter due to the holidays, and you've got a couple of projects that are winding down.

甫瀚諮詢比人才解決方案更重要的是，他們的客戶會經歷軟關閉，並且主要在聖誕節休息一整週。他們的全職員工有很多選擇的休假時間。因此，由於假期，季度時間較短，而且有幾個項目正在結束。

They have a very strong backlog. It always takes a little bit to build up for projects that replace those that wind down but their pipeline is very solid. They're very positive, they're very upbeat. I mean, I can't think of a time, certainly not in the recent past, that Protiviti hasn't been more optimistic in part because of the breadth of the strength in their solution areas. It's all of their major solution areas.

他們有非常多的積壓訂單。取代那些逐漸停止的項目總是需要一些時間來建立，但它們的管道非常穩固。他們非常積極，非常樂觀。我的意思是，我想不出任何時候，尤其是最近一段時間，甫瀚諮詢都表現得更樂觀，部分原因是他們在解決方案領域的實力廣泛。這是他們所有的主要解決方案領域。

As we've said, led by financial services, they have very large backlog of AML, anti-money laundering projects. Many are understaffed relative to what they need to complete their 2024 internal audit plans, which the regulators require they do and so Protiviti quite -- optimistic. They've got this typical -- some projects wind down and other projects start up and there's a little bit of noise one to the other. But for that, I think you'd be very pleased with the numbers.

正如我們所說，以金融服務業為首，他們積壓了大量反洗錢、反洗錢專案。許多人相對於完成 2024 年內部審計計劃所需的人員不足，監管機構要求他們這樣做，因此甫瀚諮詢相當樂觀。他們有這樣的典型——有些計畫結束，有些計畫啟動，彼此之間存在一些噪音。但就這一點而言，我認為您會對這些數字感到非常滿意。

And then just to stay on Protiviti, I mean with the U.S. growth being at 7.6%, it seems like you're continuing to gain share relative to the Big 4. We've heard from some other players that some of the Big 4 have overcapacity and perhaps are competing a little bit more on price.

然後，就留在甫瀚諮詢而言，我的意思是，隨著美國經濟成長率為 7.6%，相對於四大巨頭，您的市場份額似乎仍在繼續增加。我們從其他一些參與者那裡聽說，四大巨頭中的一些產能過剩，並且可能在價格上競爭更加激烈。

It doesn't seem like that's having an impact on you, but I'm wondering if you could just confirm or deny that, that's having any sort of impact and how we should think about Protiviti as we go into the first half of next year given the investments that you've made and how we should think about the margins there?

這似乎並沒有對您產生影響，但我想知道您是否可以確認或否認這一點，這會產生任何影響，以及在進入明年上半年時我們應該如何看待甫瀚諮詢考慮到您所做的投資以及我們該如何考慮那裡的利潤？

Again, the price competition from some of the Big 4 is not new. If anything, that leveled off. It certainly didn't get more acute during the period as to overcapacity and/or management resources generally. I think Protiviti has done an excellent job. You see that in their gross margin accretion, another 250 basis points on a sequential basis.

同樣，來自四大巨頭的價格競爭並不新鮮。如果有什麼不同的話，那就是趨於平穩。在此期間，產能和/或管理資源過剩的情況當然並沒有變得更加嚴重。我認為甫瀚諮詢做得非常好。您可以看到，他們的毛利率比上季又增加了 250 個基點。

And so like many companies post-COVID, Protiviti staffed up significantly with their full-time staff. Since that time, they pretty much held the line at that high level, some call that hoarding. But on the other hand, they significantly reduced their contractor usage, some 35% when demand softened a bit and their internal staff, the attrition was cut in half, such that they reduce their overall resource capacity by using fewer contractors.

與新冠疫情後的許多公司一樣，甫瀚諮詢也大量增加了全職員工。從那時起，他們幾乎把防線保持在那麼高的水平，有些人稱之為囤積。但另一方面，他們顯著減少了承包商的使用，當需求稍微疲軟時，他們的承包商使用量減少了約35%，而他們的內部員工則減少了一半，這樣他們就可以透過使用更少的承包商來降低整體資源容量。

But the good news, and what I think is instructive generally as things have improved at Protiviti, they have added back to the contractors. And in fact, if you look at the growth rates for the quarter, you'll see year on year, the revenues grew 4.5% but you've also looked at that intersegment line, which is their use contractors, it grew 19.5%.

但好消息是，隨著甫瀚諮詢的情況有所改善，我認為總體上具有啟發性，他們已經重新增加了承包商。事實上，如果你看本季的成長率，你會發現營收年增了 4.5%，但你也看到了部門間線，也就是他們的使用承包商，它成長了 19.5%。

So my point is even though they're holding the line on that higher level of full-time staff, they first -- when they were in cost-cutting mode, reduced contractors. But now they've added 90% of those back. And I think it's instructive because many people believe that somehow there's conflict between hoarding your full times and whether there's any upside to add contractors, I think Protiviti is a case study.

因此，我的觀點是，儘管他們堅持保留較高水準的全職員工，但他們首先在處於成本削減模式時，減少了承包商。但現在他們已經將 90% 的內容加回來了。我認為這很有啟發性，因為許多人認為，在某種程度上，囤積全職時間與增加承包商是否有任何好處之間存在衝突，我認為甫瀚諮詢就是一個案例研究。

In fact, that shows that there is plenty of upside to add back contractors for those who've reduced it in the first case, which frankly is true industry-wide because if you look at nonfarm payrolls overall, they're up 4% or 5% post COVID, yet temporary help contractors, if you will, are down 8% or 9%.

事實上，這表明，對於那些在第一種情況下減少了承包商的人來說，增加承包商有很大的好處，坦率地說，這在整個行業中都是如此，因為如果你看一下整體非農業就業人數，就會發現它們增加了4% 或新冠疫情過後，臨時工承包商減少了 5%，如果你願意的話，則減少了 8% 或 9%。

So I would argue that even though our clients generally have “hoarded their full times,” they in part, funded with that with fewer contractors and restoring their contractors because they're in a capacity-constrained situation is our upside as things get better, just as it has been in the past.

因此，我認為，儘管我們的客戶通常“囤積了他們的全職時間”，但他們在一定程度上用更少的承包商來提供資金，並恢復他們的承包商，因為他們處於能力有限的情況，這是我們的優勢事情變得更好了，就像過去一樣。

That's perfect. Thank you.

那很完美。謝謝。

Manav Patnaik, Barclays.

馬納夫·帕特奈克，巴克萊銀行。

This is Princy Thomas on for Manav. I wanted to see, are you seeing anything around finance and accounting positions and the risk from Gen AI fulfilling a lot of these temp tests?

我是馬納夫的普林西·托馬斯。我想看看，您是否看到了有關財務和會計職位的任何信息，以及 Gen AI 完成大量臨時測試的風險？

The short answer is we're seeing very little currently as it relates to Gen AI. As we've talked about on prior calls, we've seen many technology cycles in the past, where there was automation of spreadsheets of payroll, of tax preparation, ERP, bookkeeping, and all those cycles have been much more impactful to accounting and finance, all of which we grew through individually, and we also grew through in the aggregate.

簡而言之，我們目前看到的與 Gen AI 相關的資訊很少。正如我們在之前的電話會議中談到的那樣，我們過去見過許多技術週期，其中包括薪資電子表格、稅務準備、ERP、簿記的自動化，所有這些週期對會計和會計的影響更大金融，所有這些都是我們個人成長的過程，也是我們整體成長的過程。

And we think those were much more significant when you effectively went from manual to automated in each of the areas I talked about, such that today, virtually all our clients, even the smallest have automated accounting systems. And the impact of Gen AI relative to that starting point pales in comparison to what I mentioned otherwise.

我們認為，當你在我談到的每個領域有效地從手動轉向自動化時，這些就變得更加重要，以至於今天，幾乎所有我們的客戶，甚至是最小的客戶都擁有自動化會計系統。與我在其他方面提到的相比，Gen AI 相對於這個起點的影響相形見絀。

And then in terms of headlines around from reinforcing further return to office mandate, have you seen any client shifts that are impacting hiring opportunities? Are you still seeing demand for hybrid and remote roles from clients?

然後，就加強進一步重返辦公室任務的頭條新聞而言，您是否看到任何影響招募機會的客戶變化？您是否仍然看到客戶對混合和遠端角色的需求？

I'd say at higher skills, there is still demand for hybrid and remote roles at the more operational and transactional level, there's clearly a preference by clients for on-site. Frankly, they have to pay a premium to compensate those people for their commute time, for their parking, their otherwise out-of-pocket costs to come on site. But at higher skill levels, remote and hybrid work is alive and very well but at the transactional operational level, it's very much more on site.

我想說的是，在更高的技能方面，在營運和交易層面仍然需要混合和遠端角色，客戶顯然更喜歡現場工作。坦白說，他們必須支付額外費用來補償這些人的通勤時間、停車費以及到現場的其他自付費用。但在更高的技能水平上，遠端和混合工作是活躍的並且非常好，但在事務操作層面上，它更多地是在現場。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Trevor Romeo, William Blair.

特雷弗·羅密歐，威廉·布萊爾。

Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking the questions. First one, I just had a two-part question on the election. I think you mentioned some of the uncertainty in your prepared remarks. On the talent solutions side, just wondering what your conversations with clients are telling you about the impact of that uncertainty on-demand now and how that could change as we move past it? And then on the Protiviti side, I was just wondering if you've historically seen any increases or decreases in demand from a change in administration. For example, if people expect regulatory changes, could that potentially drive demand for the regulatory risk and compliance or the internal audit practices to manage that change?

嗨，下午好。感謝您提出問題。首先，我有一個關於選舉的兩部分問題。我認為你在準備好的發言中提到了一些不確定性。在人才解決方案方面，只是想知道您與客戶的對話告訴您現在按需不確定性的影響，以及當我們克服這種不確定性時，這種影響會如何改變？然後，在甫瀚諮詢方面，我只是想知道歷史上是否曾因政府變更而導致需求增加或減少。例如，如果人們期望監管發生變化，這是否可能會推動對監管風險和合規性或內部審計實踐的需求來管理該變化？

I'd say on the talent solutions side, it's more uncertainty about the outcome than it is one outcome or the other having a lesser or greater impact. There's clearly election anxiety, if you will. And I think it's just something, hopefully, we get past quickly but in any event, get passed. And that's more the issue on talent solutions. Protiviti, at least immediately wouldn't be that impacted.

我想說，在人才解決方案方面，結果的不確定性比一個結果或另一個結果的影響更大或更大。如果你願意的話，顯然存在選舉焦慮。我認為這只是一些事情，希望我們能很快過去，但無論如何，都會過去。這更多是關於人才解決方案的問題。甫瀚諮詢至少不會立刻受到那麼大的影響。

But to the extent one side or the other had a significantly different position as to regulation, particularly financial services regulation and quite frankly, that's not expected, particularly anti-money laundering is not something that's usually emphasized more or less by one side or the other. So there's not a huge impact expected. But clearly, regulation generally and enforcement of regulation is a demand driver for Protiviti.

但在某種程度上，一方在監管方面有顯著不同的立場，特別是金融服務監管，坦率地說，這是預料之外的，特別是反洗錢並不是一方或另一方通常或多或少強調的事情。所以預計影響不會很大。但顯然，整體監管和監管執行是甫瀚諮詢的需求驅動力。

And then for the follow-up, I just wanted to ask on internal head count levels. I think last quarter, you said you could grow 20%- or 30%-plus on the top line without adding heads. Is that still about the right range to think about in a demand rebound? And then considering the macro uncertainty is still pretty high, if we didn't see a meaningful uptick in demand going into next year, let's say. What would it take, if anything, for you to kind of change your approach on holding the line on recruiter count?

然後對於後續，我只想詢問內部人數水準。我想上個季度，您說過在不增加人員的情況下，您的收入可以成長 20% 或 30% 以上。這仍然是需求反彈時需要考慮的正確範圍嗎？然後考慮到宏觀不確定性仍然相當高，假設我們沒有看到明年需求的有意義的上升。如果有的話，你會採取什麼措施來改變你對招募人員人數的限制？

Well, we continue to performance manage those that are struggling from an individual performance standpoint. But we stand by in a strong V-shaped recovery. There's no reason we can't get back to the same productivity levels we saw a couple of years ago.

好吧，我們繼續對那些從個人績效角度陷入困境的人進行績效管理。但我們將迎來強勁的 V 型復甦。我們沒有理由不能恢復到幾年前的生產力水準。

And given that the math says there's 20% to 30% upside, but again, based on how strong and based on how much we want to get ahead of that as we're in it, it would be a good thing if we started adding [headcounts] (corrected by company after the call) in advance of when we had to because that would signal that we're particularly bullish about our prospects. But on a pure productivity basis, we've proven that productivity levels can be 20% to 30% higher than what they currently are.

考慮到數學顯示有 20% 到 30% 的上漲空間，但同樣，基於強度以及我們在其中想要領先的程度，如果我們開始添加，那將是一件好事[人數]（在電話會議後由公司更正）在我們必須這樣做之前提前進行，因為這表明我們對我們的前景特別樂觀。但從純粹的生產力角度來看，我們已經證明生產力水準可以比目前高出 20% 到 30%。

But again, so same economic backdrop to same economic backdrop, that's just math. But the question is kind of what's our expectation beyond that, which would also drive what our headcounts are.

但同樣，相同的經濟背景對相同的經濟背景，這只是數學。但問題是除此之外我們的期望是什麼，也會影響我們的員工人數。

Got it. Okay. Thank you. Keith.

知道了。好的。謝謝。基思.

Tobey Sommer, Truist.

托比·索默，真理主義者。

Thank you. I wonder if you could update us on your government book of business in the last several years. You expanded that during the pandemic. And even though that project was going to taper off, you thought you'd kind of have good prospects over time in that vertical. Could you refresh us on what that looks like today?

謝謝。我想知道您是否可以向我們介紹您過去幾年的政府業務記錄的最新情況。您在大流行期間擴大了這一範圍。儘管該項目將逐漸減少，但您認為隨著時間的推移，您在該垂直領域將有良好的前景。您能為我們介紹一下今天的情況嗎？

Sure. And you are correct. We built up government during the pandemic on some of those stimulus-related projects. There was significant concern that we would have a negative cliff event when that ended. Happy to report that didn't happen. We converted those into ongoing projects, both at the state, local and federal level.

當然。你是對的。在大流行期間，我們在一些與刺激相關的項目上建立了政府。人們非常擔心，當這一切結束時，我們會發生負面的懸崖事件。很高興地報告這件事沒有發生。我們將這些轉變為州、地方和聯邦層級正在進行的計畫。

And we're generally pleased with how government has done for us relative to the other sectors that we're in. So nothing major to report. And I would argue no news there is good news given the short history we have.

相對於我們所在的其他行業，我們總體上對政府為我們所做的事情感到滿意。所以沒有什麼重要的報告。我認為，鑑於我們的歷史很短，沒有什麼消息是好消息。

In terms of the tech business, is there a difference in what you're hearing from customers about that and seeing in terms of your own placement and bill rate trends versus the other staffing lines of business?

就科技業務而言，您從客戶那裡聽到的情況以及您自己的安置和帳單費率趨勢與其他人員配備業務領域的情況是否存在差異？

And I alluded to this earlier. And so when we think of tech, we split it between software and applications on the high end and infrastructure and operations on the operational end. And what we're seeing is more strength in software and applications, directly a result of data, cloud, security, privacy, and so we are seeing some strength. And if you look at our growth rates this quarter, you'll see compared to F&A and administrative, Technology was a little better, and those were the reasons.

我之前提到過這一點。因此，當我們想到技術時，我們將其分為高端的軟體和應用程式以及營運端的基礎設施和營運。我們看到的是軟體和應用程式的實力增強，這直接歸功於資料、雲端、安全性、隱私，所以我們看到了一些實力。如果你看看我們本季的成長率，你會發現與 F&A 和管理相比，技術要好一些，這就是原因。

Thank you.

謝謝。

George Tong, Goldman Sachs.

喬治唐，高盛。

Hi, thanks. Good afternoon. Can you discuss trends that you're seeing with broader white collar hiring. And if you are noticing any sort of slowdown there? I know earlier you mentioned that weekly sequential trends were stable, so trying to see if you're seeing any second derivative changes. And then what white collar hiring trends are you assuming in your 4Q guide?

你好，謝謝。午安.您能否討論一下您在更廣泛的白領招募中看到的趨勢？如果您注意到那裡有任何放緩？我知道您之前提到每週連續趨勢是穩定的，因此請嘗試看看您是否看到任何二階導數變化。那麼您在第四季指南中假設了哪些白領招募趨勢？

Well, so given that all we do is white collar, white collar is everything. As we said that we now have the longest period of stability or flatness. We have 14 consecutive weeks of flatness and we haven't seen that kind of duration over the last two years, which was the period we've been otherwise drifting down sequentially. So the white collar trend is the overall trend that we referenced, and it's a better trend than we had been seeing.

好吧，既然我們所做的都是白領，那麼白領就是一切。正如我們所說，我們現在處於最長的穩定期或平穩期。我們已經連續 14 週表現平淡，但在過去兩年中我們還沒有看到這樣的持續時間，而這段時間我們一直在連續下滑。所以白領趨勢是我們參考的整體趨勢，而且這是一個比我們之前看到的更好的趨勢。

You have to start somewhere. We flattened out, it's more than a week or two, it's more than four or five or six weeks, it's a long time, it's 14 straight weeks. So we're encouraged that we've flattened out for that period of time. And given the Optimism Index improvements we see from NFIB given the hope that we get through the election uncertainty relatively quickly, we're optimistic. Now as far as what's built into our guidance, even though we've got that flatness that I described, we're more conservative than that in our guidance.

你必須從某個地方開始。我們變得平淡無奇，這不僅僅是一兩週，也不僅僅是四、五、六週，這是很長的一段時間，已經連續 14 週了。因此，令我們感到鼓舞的是，我們在那段時間的表現已經趨於平緩。鑑於我們從 NFIB 看到的樂觀指數有所改善，並希望我們相對快速地度過選舉的不確定性，我們感到樂觀。現在就我們的指導中的內容而言，儘管我們已經實現了我所描述的平坦性，但我們比我們的指導中的更保守。

We have included a kind of low single-digit sequential down for the quarter. Perm placement in the fourth quarter, there's always a lot of uncertainty. Clients go on holiday, clients run through their hiring budget, candidates are even stickier to displace because they're not only going on holiday, they're also waiting around for their bonus in hopes that they get one.

我們已經將本季的低個位數環比下降納入考慮範圍。第四季的燙髮安排，總是存在著很大的不確定性。客戶去度假，客戶用完他們的招募預算，候選人甚至更願意被解僱，因為他們不僅要去度假，而且還在等待獎金，希望能得到一份。

So there's always more volatility for perm. You'll notice that we ended the quarter much better than the full quarter only to come the first few weeks after and go in the other direction, which further demonstrates the volatility that perm has particularly over short periods of time.

所以燙髮總是有更大的波動性。您會注意到，我們在本季度結束時比整個季度要好得多，但在之後的前幾週，我們就走向了另一個方向，這進一步證明了燙髮的波動性，尤其是在短時間內。

But the principal issue for our guidance from a profitability standpoint, it's a short quarter. But for us, to put it all in perspective, we compare how we're doing today to prior cycles. And so dot-com, we had sequential down for 10 quarters, as we've talked about. Financial crisis was five quarters, but it was steeper during that period of time. And trough margins in the dot-com period were about 2.5% for talent solutions.

但從獲利能力的角度來看，我們指導的主要問題是季度較短。但對我們來說，為了正確看待這一切，我們將今天的表現與先前的周期進行比較。因此，正如我們所討論的，在網路公司中，我們連續 10 個季度出現下滑。金融危機持續了五個季度，但那段時間更嚴重。在網路泡沫時期，人才解決方案的利潤率低潮約為 2.5%。

Similarly, during financial crisis, shorter but steeper, trough margins 2.6%. So far, nine quarters into this sequential down cycle, we're at 4% but if you look at the midpoint of our guidance for Q4, we're right back to that 2.5%. The composition of that is a little different, a little more pressure on SG&A because of the cumulative inflation during this down cycle, less negative perm mix than prior cycles. But interestingly, if you kind of view over the entire cycle versus the last two that I described, from a trough margin standpoint, they're very similar.

同樣，在金融危機期間，利潤率谷值更短但更陡，為 2.6%。到目前為止，在這個連續下降週期的九個季度中，我們的成長率為 4%，但如果你看看我們第四季指導的中點，我們就會回到 2.5%。其中的組成有點不同，由於本次下行週期中的累積通膨，SG&A 壓力更大，而負面的永久組合比之前的周期更少。但有趣的是，如果你從谷底利潤的角度來看整個週期與我描述的最後兩個週期，它們非常相似。

But for us, the focus isn't on how good are your trough margins? But instead, what are your prospects coming out of this. And I gave Protiviti as a real example of, we believe, because our clients have reduced their contractors, they're in a constrained capacity situation such that as their businesses improve, they're going to need more resources. And the path of least resistance is always to hire contractors before full time.

但對我們來說，重點不是你的低潮利潤有多好？但相反，你的前景是什麼？我以甫瀚諮詢為例，我們相信，由於我們的客戶減少了承包商，他們的能力受到限制，因此隨著業務的改善，他們將需要更多的資源。阻力最小的方法始終是在全職之前僱用承包商。

Virtually every company will more quickly approve the addition of contractors than they will full-time talent. So we remain bullish on the upside, notwithstanding this focus on what our trough margins. Trough margins are very consistent what they've been in cycles past.

事實上，每家公司都會比批准全職人才更快地批准增加承包商。因此，儘管我們關注的是我們的低潮利潤率，但我們仍然看好上行趨勢。低谷利潤率與過去週期的情況非常一致。

And by the way, in dot-com, that trough margin of 2.5% became 11.3% on the upside, financial crisis 2.6% became 12.5% on the upside. So we're as optimistic as ever we'll get back to double-digit operating margins in talent solutions as the macro improves.

順便說一句，在網路時代，2.5% 的低谷利潤率上升為 11.3%，金融危機時期的 2.6% 上升為 12.5%。因此，隨著宏觀經濟的改善，我們一如既往地樂觀地認為，人才解決方案的營業利潤率將恢復兩位數。

Got it. That's very helpful. And continuing the line of thought on margins. Aside from seasonality, can you discuss some of the factors that may be causing operating margins to step down at the midpoint in 4Q compared to 3Q?

知道了。這非常有幫助。並繼續邊緣化的思路。除了季節性因素之外，您能否討論一下可能導致第四季度營業利潤率較第三季中點下降的一些因素？

Well, it's all about the shorter quarter. And so you don't leverage your fixed cost because it's at least 2.5 days shorter. As we talked about, Protiviti's, because of its clients’ soft close, they lose more than 2.5 days. But it's all about the short quarter in the fourth quarter. But again, that's just one piece of what trough margins look like in this cycle, which history says, get quickly forgotten as you focus on the upside in a recovery.

好吧，這都是關於較短的季度。因此，您無需利用固定成本，因為它至少縮短了 2.5 天。正如我們所討論的，Protiviti 的客戶由於軟關閉而損失了超過 2.5 天的時間。但這一切都與第四季的短季有關。但同樣，這只是本週期中利潤率低谷的一部分，歷史表明，當你專注於復甦的上行空間時，這一點很快就會被遺忘。

Got it. Very helpful. Thank you.

知道了。非常有幫助。謝謝。

Stephanie Moore, Jefferies.

史蒂芬妮·摩爾，杰弗里斯。

Hi, good afternoon. Thank you. I think you answered probably five of my questions in that last one, so that was very thorough. But I guess, actually taking it a step further, I really appreciate the color comparing this cycle to the prior two. And importantly, your ability to reach new highs from a margin standpoint as you came out of the cycle.

嗨，下午好。謝謝。我認為您在最後一個問題中可能回答了我的五個問題，所以非常徹底。但我想，實際上更進一步，我真的很欣賞這個週期與前兩個週期的顏色比較。重要的是，當你走出週期時，從利潤的角度來看，你有能力達到新高。

As you think about the recovery from this cycle, maybe talk a little bit about the drivers and what you have in place today that give you confidence that you could essentially get back to that double-digit operating margin, but more importantly, maybe reach a new high on the margin standpoint compared to, again, those prior examples that you gave?

當您考慮從這個週期中復甦時，也許可以談談驅動因素以及您今天所採取的措施，這讓您有信心基本上可以恢復兩位數的營業利潤率，但更重要的是，也許可以達到與您之前給出的那些例子相比，利潤率的新高？

Well, first and foremost, we've retained our top producers. We've had negative leverage because we haven't reduced head count at the same pace that our revenues declined sequentially all because we wanted to have capacity from a recruiter standpoint to participate; B, we've made significant strides from a Technology standpoint and improving the productivity of our staff, given better tools than they've ever had, which continues to improve as we speak.

嗯，首先也是最重要的是，我們保留了我們的頂級生產商。我們的槓桿率是負值，因為我們沒有以與收入連續下降相同的速度減少員工數量，所有這些都是因為我們希望從招募人員的角度有能力參與； B，從技術角度來看，我們已經取得了重大進步，並提高了員工的生產力，提供了比他們以前擁有的更好的工具，就在我們說話的時候，這些工具還在繼續改進。

We lever the fixed cost on the upside, at least to the extent we did on the downside. So we retrace our steps, if you will, as that reverses. We have Protiviti that is performing extremely well, no end in sight, taking share from the Big 4, very well positioned broadly across its solution areas, Technology, regulatory compliance, internal audit, business process improvement you put that package together, I would argue we have more upside than we've ever had.

我們在上行方向上利用固定成本，至少達到了在下行方向上的槓桿作用。因此，如果你願意的話，我們會隨著情況的逆轉而回溯我們的腳步。我們的甫瀚諮詢表現非常出色，看不到盡頭，從四大巨頭那裡奪取了份額，在其解決方案領域、技術、監管合規性、內部審計、業務流程改進等方面都處於非常有利的位置，我認為，你把這些一攬子計劃放在一起我們擁有比以往更多的優勢。

And then maybe switching gears to the gross margin front. I think you've held in very well and the pricing has trended pretty well as well. So can you talk a little bit about the potential for maybe any gross margin pressure here or anything that you're seeing that could suggest that?

然後也許會轉向毛利率。我認為你們已經堅持得很好，而且定價趨勢也很好。那麼，您能否談談這裡可能存在的任何毛利率壓力的可能性，或者您所看到的任何可能表明這一點的情況？

I think our biggest upside on gross margin is mix. And as we move up the skill curve, we get a higher gross margin on higher skilled positions than we do on operational skill positions. And we've been on this journey for many years to take that mix even higher, which we expect to continue to do. And therefore, I believe there's a gross margin upside for mix alone.

我認為我們毛利率的最大優勢是混合。當我們沿著技能曲線向上移動時，我們在較高技能職位上獲得的毛利率比在操作技能職位上獲得的毛利率更高。多年來，我們一直致力於將這種組合提升到更高水平，我們預計將繼續這樣做。因此，我相信光是混合產品就有毛利率上升的空間。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Kevin McVeigh, UBS.

凱文麥克維，瑞銀集團。

Hello. Good afternoon. This is Marc Vitenzon on for Kevin McVeigh. Last quarter, you guided to $0.08 in restructuring expenses related to Protiviti in Q3. Does today's report EPS number account to their structuring and if so, what was the actual impact from restructuring?

你好。午安.我是馬克·維滕松 (Marc Vitenzon) 替補凱文·麥克維 (Kevin McVeigh)。上個季度，您預計第三季與甫瀚諮詢相關的重組費用為 0.08 美元。今天的報告每股盈餘數字是否反映了他們的結構？

So the impact was exactly what we thought it would be. And it's $5.6 million in SG&A, and it's $2.5 million of tax provision. It gets you right to the $0.08 that we forecast, and it was embedded in our guidance. So there's no difference from what we guided to as it relates to that. And it's because we converted our Mainland China-owned operation to an independently owned member firm.

所以影響正是我們所想像的。其中 SG&A 為 560 萬美元，稅金撥備為 250 萬美元。它可以讓您直接達到我們預測的 0.08 美元，並且它已包含在我們的指導中。因此，與我們所指導的沒有什麼不同，因為它與此相關。這是因為我們將中國大陸擁有的業務轉變為獨立擁有的成員公司。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Mark Marcon, Baird.

馬克馬爾孔，貝爾德。

Thank you. I just had a quick follow-up. You're very clear about the margin impact for the fourth quarter. Three months from now, we'll be talking about the first quarter. And I was just wondering if you wanted to remind people some of the seasonal impacts as it relates to the first quarter and how people should think about this kind of normal margin sequential patterns going from Q4 to Q1?

謝謝。我剛剛進行了快速跟進。您非常清楚第四季度的利潤率影響。三個月後，我們將討論第一季。我只是想知道您是否想提醒人們一些與第一季相關的季節性影響，以及人們應該如何考慮從第四季度到第一季的這種正常利潤連續模式？

I'd say, typically, in the first quarter on a same-day basis, contract is pretty flat seasonally and perm, because you're comparing it to the shorter, more volatile fourth quarter, perm typically has a mid-single-digit step-up in the first quarter for that reason. So same-day contract about the scene, but you have more days, right? You pick up those holiday days. So overall, you have more days and same per day, whereas in perm, you have more days and you get more per day.

我想說，通常情況下，在第一季的同日基礎上，合約在季節性和燙髮方面相當持平，因為你將其與較短、波動性更大的第四季度進行比較，燙髮通常具有中個位數因此，第一季的步伐有所加快。所以關於場景的當天合同，但你有更多的天數，對吧？你拿起那些假期。所以總的來說，你有更多的天數，每天都一樣，而在燙髮中，你有更多的天數，每天得到的也更多。

And then on Protiviti, we've seen the pattern over the last few years. Anything that would be different this time around relative to that typical pattern?

然後在甫瀚諮詢上，我們看到了過去幾年的模式。這次與典型模式有什麼不同嗎？

Well, in Protiviti, because internal audit gets crowded out by clients focusing on their external audit, there's a seasonal step-down per day that's typically mid-single digits on a same-day basis. And again, it's a seasonal thing. We've gone through that pattern in prior quarters that we've discussed and from a profitability standpoint, remember, too, Protiviti does all their raises their compensation increase is effective January 1.

嗯，在甫瀚諮詢，由於內部審計被專注於外部審計的客戶所排擠，因此每天都會出現季節性降級，通常當天的降級幅度為中個位數。再說一次，這是一個季節性的事情。我們在前幾個季度中已經討論過這種模式，從盈利能力的角度來看，請記住，甫瀚諮詢的所有加薪均於 1 月 1 日生效。

So you have a double impact, where the costs go up all in one day and the revenues seasonally, sequentially go down for the reasons I talked about. And so from a profitability standpoint, Q1 is Protiviti's lowest profitability quarter but happy to report that Protiviti had double-digit operating margins in the third quarter.

因此，你會產生雙重影響，成本在一天之內全部上升，而收入則季節性下降，原因我談到了。因此，從獲利能力的角度來看，第一季是甫瀚諮詢獲利能力最低的季度，但很高興地報告，甫瀚諮詢第三季度的營業利潤率為兩位數。

So it's nice to see them back there. I mean I can't say enough about how well they manage their resource base, keeping that high level of full-time employees by very effectively managing their contractor base, and that contractor base, it's a bullet they have relative to the Big 4 that don't have that. So they very effectively have managed their resources. Just look at those gross margins up 250 basis points sequentially two quarters in a row.

所以很高興看到他們回到那裡。我的意思是，關於他們管理資源基礎的情況，我無法說得太多，透過非常有效地管理他們的承包商基礎來保持高水平的全職員工，而承包商基礎，這是他們相對於四大的一個子彈沒有那個。所以他們非常有效地管理了他們的資源。看看這些毛利率連續兩季成長 250 個基點就知道了。

And Mark, just so that you have them, the days for next year, by quarter, first quarter, 61.9; second quarter, 63.2; third quarter, 64.2; fourth quarter, 61.4, for a total of 250.7.

馬克，這樣你就可以知道明年的天數，按季度，第一季度，61.9；第二季度，63.2；第三季度，64.2；第四季為 61.4，總計 250.7。

Perfect. That's very helpful. Thank you so much.

完美的。這非常有幫助。太感謝了。

So that was our last question. Thank you all for joining us today. So long.

這是我們的最後一個問題。感謝大家今天加入我們。這麼久。

This concludes today's teleconference. If you missed any part of the call, it will be archived in audio format in the Investor Center of Robert Half's website at roberthalf.com. You can also log into the conference call replay. The details are contained in the company's press release issued earlier today.

今天的電話會議到此結束。如果您錯過了電話會議的任何部分，該內容將以音訊格式存檔在 Robert Half 網站 roberthalf.com 的投資者中心中。您也可以登入電話會議重播。詳細資訊包含在該公司今天早些時候發布的新聞稿中。