RF Industries Ltd (RFIL) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings. Welcome to RF Industries' third-quarter fiscal 2024 financial results conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this conference is being recorded.

問候。歡迎參加 RF Industries 2024 財年第三季財務業績電話會議。（操作員說明）請注意本次會議正在錄製中。

I will now turn the conference over to your host, Margaret Boyce, Investor Relations at RF Industries. Margaret, you may begin.

我現在將會議轉交給主持人 RF Industries 投資者關係部瑪格麗特·博伊斯 (Margaret Boyce)。瑪格麗特，你可以開始了。

Thank you, Paul. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to RF Industries third-quarter fiscal 2024 earnings call. With me on today's call are RF Industries' Chief Executive Officer, Rob Dawson; President and COO, Ray Bibisi; and CFO, Peter Yin. We issued our Q3 earnings release after market today. That release is available on our website at rfindustries.com.

謝謝你，保羅。大家下午好。歡迎參加 RF Industries 2024 財年第三季財報電話會議。參加今天電話會議的有 RF Industries 執行長 Rob Dawson；總裁兼營運長雷‧比比斯 (Ray Bibisi)；和首席財務長Peter Yin。我們今天在盤後發布了第三季財報。此版本可在我們的網站 rfindustries.com 上取得。

I'd like to remind everyone that during today's call, management will make forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. Please note that except for the historical statements, statements on this call today may constitute forward-looking statements under the Securities Exchange laws. When used, the words anticipate, believe, expect, intend, future, and other similar expressions identify forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements reflect management's current views with respect to future events and financial performance and are subject to risks and uncertainties.

我想提醒大家，在今天的電話會議中，管理階層將做出涉及風險和不確定性的前瞻性聲明。請注意，除了歷史陳述外，今天本次電話會議的陳述可能構成證券交易法規定的前瞻性陳述。使用時，「預期」、「相信」、「期望」、「打算」、「未來」和其他類似表達等詞語均表示前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述反映了管理層對未來事件和財務表現的當前看法，並受到風險和不確定性的影響。

Actual results may differ materially from the outcomes contained in any forward-looking statements. Factors that could cause these forward-looking statements to differ from actual results include the risks and uncertainties discussed in the company's reports on Form 10-K and 10-Q and other filings with the SEC. RF Industries undertakes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements.

實際結果可能與任何前瞻性陳述中包含的結果有重大差異。可能導致這些前瞻性陳述與實際結果不同的因素包括公司向 SEC 提交的 10-K 和 10-Q 表格報告以及其他文件中討論的風險和不確定性。RF Industries 不承擔更新或修改任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

Additionally, throughout this call, we will be discussing certain non-GAAP financial measures. Today's earnings release and the related current report on Form 10-K describe the differences between our GAAP and non-GAAP reporting.

此外，在整個電話會議中，我們將討論某些非公認會計準則財務指標。今天的收益發布和 10-K 表格中的相關當前報告描述了我們的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 報告之間的差異。

With that said, I'll now turn the conference over to our CEO, Rob Dawson. Rob, please go ahead.

話雖如此，我現在將會議交給我們的執行長 Rob Dawson。羅布，請繼續。

Thank you, Margaret, and welcome to our third-quarter fiscal 2024 conference call. I'm here today with Ray Bibisi, our President and COO; and Peter Yin, our CFO. I'll start with our third-quarter highlights and some comments on our market opportunity, Ray will discuss our sales progress and what we're hearing from customers, and Peter will cover our financials before we open the call to your questions.

謝謝瑪格麗特，歡迎參加我們的 2024 財年第三季電話會議。今天我和我們的總裁兼營運長 Ray Bibisi 一起來到這裡。和我們的財務長 Peter Yin。我將從第三季的亮點和對市場機會的一些評論開始，雷將討論我們的銷售進展以及我們從客戶那裡聽到的情況，彼得將在我們開始回答您的問題之前介紹我們的財務狀況。

We're pleased that our third-quarter results continue to build on the momentum that we reported in the second quarter. Net sales of $16.8 million were up almost 5% sequentially and 8% year over year. Our gross profit margin for the third quarter was 29.5%, a 510-basis-point improvement versus the comparable period last year and roughly in line with the prior quarter.

我們很高興我們的第三季業績繼續建立在第二季報告的勢頭之上。淨銷售額為 1,680 萬美元，季增近 5%，年增 8%。第三季的毛利率為 29.5%，比去年同期提高了 510 個基點，與上一季大致持平。

Importantly, for two quarters in a row, we're very close to our 30% near-term target for gross margin, which reflects the product mix shift to our higher-value, higher-margin solutions. Our adjusted EBITDA was in positive territory for two quarters in a row, a sharp reversal from the losses we experienced during a challenging 2023.

重要的是，我們連續兩個季度非常接近 30% 的毛利率近期目標，這反映出產品組合正在轉向更高價值、更高利潤的解決方案。我們的調整後 EBITDA 連續兩季處於正值，這與我們在充滿挑戰的 2023 年經歷的虧損截然不同。

As mentioned before, I believe our business is at an inflection point where we can continue to deliver meaningful progress now and tap into even greater future potential. The Tier 1 wireless carrier ecosystem had major cutbacks in their 2023 capital spending over the last several quarters, and this created considerable hardship for RFI and other downstream vendors. We continue to see major telecom companies being cautious about spending for large CapEx projects, but they continue to allocate significant resources to address critical needs in operations and maintenance.

如前所述，我相信我們的業務正處於一個拐點，我們現在可以繼續取得有意義的進展，並挖掘更大的未來潛力。過去幾個季度，一級無線營運商生態系統的 2023 年資本支出大幅削減，這給 RFI 和其他下游供應商帶來了相當大的困難。我們仍然看到主要電信公司對大型資本支出項目的支出持謹慎態度，但他們繼續分配大量資源來滿足營運和維護的關鍵需求。

Regardless of overall CapEx spend, telecom companies always want to ensure their infrastructure is upgraded with next-generation technologies that are cost effective and sustainable. Fortunately, our direct air cooling or DAC product line meets the required standards for the replacements and upgrades they need to future proof their cooling infrastructure.

無論整體資本支出如何，電信公司始終希望確保採用具有成本效益且可持續的下一代技術來升級其基礎設施。幸運的是，我們的直接空氣冷卻或 DAC 產品線滿足他們所需的更換和升級標準，以確保其冷卻基礎設施面向未來。

As we've discussed previously, networking equipment can generate substantial heat inside the small buildings, enclosures, and boxes at the edge of networks. And with the huge impact that AI is having on data centers, more equipment is being pushed to the edges of the network. This equipment must be cooled to operate effectively and consistently, and our DAC systems offer high-efficient, climate-durable cooling that is both eco-friendly and lower cost than traditional systems. These patented systems are built to stand the rigor of outdoor environments, plus they have state-of-the-art technology that can reduce operating expenses by up to 70% over conventional HVAC systems and can help companies achieve their green initiatives.

正如我們之前討論的，網路設備可能會在網路邊緣的小型建築物、外殼和盒子內產生大量熱量。隨著人工智慧對資料中心產生巨大影響，更多設備被推到網路邊緣。該設備必須經過冷卻才能有效、一致地運行，我們的 DAC 系統提供高效、耐氣候的冷卻，與傳統系統相比，既環保又成本更低。這些專利系統專為承受嚴酷的戶外環境而設計，此外，它們還擁有最先進的技術，與傳統 HVAC 系統相比，營運費用可降低高達 70%，並可幫助公司實現綠色計劃。

Our team continues to work hard on evolving our business to make us more diverse in our end markets and applications and therefore, less reliant on CapEx spend. While taken some time and foresight, I think we finally arrived at the point when the market is meeting us where our products are. As we prepared for this moment, we executed a series of expense reduction initiatives that has created significant operating leverage in our business.

我們的團隊繼續努力發展我們的業務，使我們的終端市場和應用更加多樣化，從而減少對資本支出的依賴。儘管花了一些時間和遠見，我認為我們終於到達了市場與我們的產品相遇的時刻。當我們為這一刻做好準備時，我們執行了一系列費用削減舉措，為我們的業務創造了巨大的營運槓桿。

As demand increases, we have capacity to serve our customers and scale our business with little-to-no material incremental investment. With a portfolio of high-value products, we've been able to build stronger customer relationships at higher decision-making levels within large and complex organizations. This has given RFI much greater visibility and relevance than we've ever had.

隨著需求的增加，我們有能力為客戶提供服務並擴展我們的業務，而幾乎不需要任何實質的增量投資。憑藉高價值產品組合，我們能夠在大型複雜組織的更高決策層中建立更牢固的客戶關係。這使得 RFI 比以往任何時候都具有更大的知名度和相關性。

In fact, some -- now some key customers are asking us to partner with them to help solve challenges with new solutions. In some cases, they're coming directly to me or Ray or the team and telling us exactly how we can help, which is definitely a new and much welcome reversal of roles. After performing well for these customers, they're now beginning to treat us as an incumbent, giving us insight into the amount and timing of future orders, which improves our ability to forecast, control our supply chain, and a clearer pathway to improving margins.

事實上，現在一些重要客戶要求我們與他們合作，透過新的解決方案來幫助解決挑戰。在某些情況下，他們會直接來找我或雷或團隊，並準確地告訴我們如何提供幫助，這絕對是一種新的、非常受歡迎的角色逆轉。在為這些客戶提供良好的服務後，他們現在開始將我們視為現有供應商，使我們能夠深入了解未來訂單的數量和時間，這提高了我們預測、控制供應鏈的能力，並提供了更清晰的提高利潤率的途徑。

As CapEx continues on the densification of much needed 4G and 5G networks, I believe our small cell solutions, along with our overall bill of materials, will give us an additional level of opportunity. Densification and bandwidth continue to be real issues in wireless coverage. And while lower CapEx spending for large deployments has impacted some product lines like our Microlab RF passives offering, we look forward to a recovery. Microlab products have had some wild swings in quarterly performance since we acquired them two years ago, and the carrier spending pause definitely had a negative impact on potential sales, and we hope to see improved performance in 2025.

隨著資本支出繼續緻密化急需的 4G 和 5G 網絡，我相信我們的小型蜂窩解決方案以及我們的整體物料清單將為我們帶來額外的機會。緻密化和頻寬仍然是無線覆蓋領域的現實問題。雖然大型部署的資本支出下降影響了一些產品線，例如我們的 Microlab RF 被動產品，但我們期待復甦。自從兩年前我們收購麥博產品以來，其季度業績出現了一些劇烈波動，營運商支出暫停肯定對潛在銷售產生了負面影響，我們希望在 2025 年看到業績改善。

Microlab has an industry-leading RF passives bill of materials that we can leverage as anticipated demand increases for venue wireless deployment in stadiums and other critical wireless densification activities.

Microlab 擁有業界領先的射頻被動材料清單，隨著體育場館和其他關鍵無線緻密化活動中場地無線部署的預期需求增加，我們可以利用該清單。

Looking ahead, I believe our company is in a great position to answer our customers' current and future needs. We're a leaner, more efficient company with strong and relevant product and solution offering and a talented team totally focused on execution to deliver improved results and value creation for our stakeholders. With what we know today, we expect our current fiscal fourth quarter to deliver another quarter of increased sales as compared to Q3.

展望未來，我相信我們公司有能力滿足客戶當前和未來的需求。我們是一家更精簡、更有效率的公司，擁有強大且相關的產品和解決方案，以及一支完全專注於執行的才華橫溢的團隊，為我們的利害關係人提供更好的結果和價值創造。據我們今天所知，我們預計當前第四財季的銷售額將比第三季再增加一個季度。

I'd like to now turn the call over to Ray to share what he's hearing from our customers. Ray?

我現在想把電話轉給雷，分享他從我們的客戶那裡聽到的消息。射線？

Thank you, Rob, and good afternoon. While we're pleased that our top line is headed in the right direction, we know there's more work ahead to optimize our potential. As Rob mentioned, we have had some significant wins with our DAC product line across multiple customers and regions, and we're gaining momentum in our small cell offering.

謝謝你，羅布，下午好。雖然我們很高興我們的營收正朝著正確的方向發展，但我們知道，為了充分發揮我們的潛力，還有更多工作要做。正如 Rob 所提到的，我們的 DAC 產品線在多個客戶和地區取得了一些重大勝利，並且我們在小型蜂窩產品方面正在獲得動力。

For both solutions, we are now involved in our customers' planning process, which is giving us improved visibility into their long-term project timelines. This reflects the value that our products bring to the table and our focused efforts to strengthen relationships with key customers as well as cultivating new opportunities that expand our market potential. Right now, two large Tier 1 customers are deploying our technology forward products in several regional programs that have strong probability of becoming turnkey national programs.

對於這兩種解決方案，我們現在都參與了客戶的規劃流程，這使我們能夠更好地了解他們的長期專案時間表。這反映了我們的產品所帶來的價值，以及我們為加強與主要客戶的關係以及培育擴大市場潛力的新機會所付出的努力。目前，兩個大型一級客戶正在幾個區域專案中部署我們的技術前沿產品，這些專案很有可能成為交鑰匙國家專案。

For example, one of these customers is a top-tier wireless carrier that has been testing small quantities of DAC systems over a few years, mostly in markets that there are major heat challenges. Last month, we announced $2.7 million in DAC orders from this customer, and we continue to have meaningful discussions on deploying DAC into other regions.

例如，這些客戶之一是頂級無線營運商，幾年來一直在測試少量 DAC 系統，主要是在重大散熱挑戰的市場中。上個月，我們宣布從該客戶那裡獲得了 270 萬美元的 DAC 訂單，並且我們繼續就將 DAC 部署到其他地區進行有意義的討論。

As we win orders in new regions, we believe there can be a cascade effect into increasing bookings with a better mix of high-margin contributions. Now that we are involved in the planning process with some key customers, we have the opportunity to weigh in on new solutions that are mutually beneficial.

當我們在新地區贏得訂單時，我們相信透過更好地組合高利潤貢獻，可以產生連鎖效應，增加預訂量。現在我們已經參與了一些關鍵客戶的規劃過程，我們有機會權衡互惠互利的新解決方案。

Fortunately, we have an outstanding team of engineers who can enhance or develop new product lines quickly and cost effectively in response to specific customer requests or overall market trends. Through some of these customer conversations, we have identified an opportunity for a potential complementary new product line. We believe these solutions can give us another unique and powerful offering, and we look forward to sharing more of these new products in the coming quarters.

幸運的是，我們擁有一支出色的工程師團隊，他們可以快速且經濟高效地增強或開發新產品線，以響應特定的客戶要求或整體市場趨勢。透過其中一些客戶對話，我們發現了潛在的互補新產品線的機會。我們相信這些解決方案可以為我們帶來另一個獨特且強大的產品，我們期待在未來幾季分享更多這些新產品。

On the operations side, our continuous improvement efforts are identifying more cost savings opportunities as we continue to streamline our production functions through better and more efficient utilization of our facilities. This will continue to deliver greater operating leverage to our current infrastructure.

在營運方面，我們不斷的改進工作正在尋找更多節省成本的機會，因為我們繼續透過更好、更有效地利用我們的設施來簡化我們的生產職能。這將繼續為我們目前的基礎設施提供更大的營運槓桿。

I'll now turn the call over to Peter for an update on our financials. Peter?

我現在將把電話轉給彼得，以了解我們財務狀況的最新情況。彼得？

Thank you, Ray, and good afternoon, everyone. We're pleased with our third-quarter operating results and are encouraged to see continued, positive demand trends. Starting with the income statement, third-quarter net sales increased 4.5% sequentially to $16.8 million and were up 7.6% year over year. Third-quarter gross profit margin increased 510 basis points to 29.5%, an improvement from 24.4% year over year. The increase in gross margin was primarily the result of a more favorable product mix, along with increased efficiencies from facility consolidation and cost reduction initiatives.

謝謝你，雷，大家下午好。我們對第三季的經營業績感到滿意，並為看到持續的正面需求趨勢而感到鼓舞。從損益表開始，第三季淨銷售額較上季成長 4.5%，達到 1,680 萬美元，年增 7.6%。第三季毛利率成長 510 個基點至 29.5%，較去年同期的 24.4% 有所改善。毛利率的成長主要歸功於更有利的產品組合，以及設施整合和成本削減措施提高的效率。

Operating loss was $419,000, a significant improvement from a $2 million loss year over year. Consolidated net loss was $705,000, or $0.07 per diluted share, compared to a loss of $1.6 million, or $0.16 per diluted share, in the prior year. Non-GAAP net loss was $95,000 or $0.01 per diluted share, an improvement from a non-GAAP net loss of $1.3 million or $0.12 per diluted share year over year. Third-quarter adjusted EBITDA was positive $460,000 versus an adjusted EBITDA loss of $940,000 year over year. We're excited to see significant improvement year over year.

營運虧損為 41.9 萬美元，較去年同期 200 萬美元的虧損有了顯著改善。合併淨虧損為 705,000 美元，即稀釋後每股虧損 0.07 美元，而前一年虧損為 160 萬美元，即稀釋後每股虧損 0.16 美元。非 GAAP 淨虧損為 95,000 美元，即稀釋後每股 0.01 美元，較去年同期非 GAAP 淨虧損 130 萬美元，即稀釋後每股 0.12 美元有所改善。第三季調整後 EBITDA 為正 46 萬美元，而調整後 EBITDA 年比虧損 94 萬美元。我們很高興看到逐年顯著的進步。

Moving to the balance sheet. As of July 31, 2024, we had a total of $1.8 million of cash and cash equivalents and had a working capital of $11 million and a current ratio of approximately 1.6:1, with current assets of $29.4 million and current liabilities of $18.4 million.

轉向資產負債表。截至2024年7月31日，我們共有現金及現金等價物180萬美元，營運資金為1,100萬美元，流動比率約1.6:1，流動資產為2,940萬美元，流動負債為1,840萬美元。

As we mentioned last quarter, in March, we entered into a line of credit that has a three-year term that will allow up to $15 million depending on our borrowing base. However, due to the structure of the loan, the outstanding balance has been classified as a current liability.

正如我們上個季度（即 3 月）所提到的，我們簽訂了為期三年的信貸額度，根據我們的借款基礎，最多可提供 1500 萬美元的信貸額度。然而，由於貸款的結構，未償餘額已被歸類為流動負債。

During the third quarter, we paid our line of credit down $1.8 million. As of July 2024, our outstanding borrowings were $8.7 million compared to $10.5 million as of April 30, 2024, from the line of credit. We believe the amount of liquidity available to us will be sufficient to fund our anticipated operational need.

第三季度，我們支付了 180 萬美元的信用額度。截至 2024 年 7 月，我們的未償借款為 870 萬美元，而截至 2024 年 4 月 30 日，我們的未償借款為 1,050 萬美元。我們相信我們可用的流動資金足以滿足我們預期的營運需求。

On the inventory front, we've been rightsizing our inventory as we continue to improve processes and system capabilities around our supply chain. At the end of the third quarter, our inventory was approximately $15 million, a decrease of $1.4 million sequentially and a decrease of $3.4 million from year-end. Even with the reduced inventory level, we believe that supports our strategic business model of inventory availability. We continue to manage this closely as we expect to see increased demand as spending in key markets gradually normalizes over the coming year.

在庫存方面，隨著我們不斷改進供應鏈的流程和系統功能，我們一直在調整庫存規模。截至第三季末，我們的庫存約為 1500 萬美元，比上一季減少 140 萬美元，比年末減少 340 萬美元。即使庫存水準降低，我們相信這也支援我們的庫存可用性策略業務模式。我們將繼續密切管理這個問題，因為我們預計，隨著主要市場的支出在來年逐漸正常化，需求將會增加。

Moving on, we are seeing momentum build around new businesses. Our backlog as of July 31, 2024, was $20.1 million on third-quarter bookings of $18.9 million. As of today, our backlog currently stands at $19.5 million.

繼續前進，我們看到圍繞新業務的勢頭正在增強。截至 2024 年 7 月 31 日，我們的積壓訂單為 2,010 萬美元，第三季的預訂量為 1,890 萬美元。截至今天，我們的積壓訂單已達 1,950 萬美元。

In summary, we delivered a solid third quarter. We paid down our line of credit, managed our inventory level, and reduced expenses. As we go forward, we believe our model has substantial operating leverage, and we look forward to delivering improving financial results for our stakeholders.

總而言之，我們第三季業績表現強勁。我們還清了信貸額度，管理了庫存水平，並減少了開支。隨著我們的前進，我們相信我們的模式具有巨大的營運槓桿，我們期待為我們的利害關係人提供更好的財務表現。

With that, I'll open up the call for your questions.

接下來，我將打開電話詢問您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Josh Nichols, B. Riley.

（操作員說明）Josh Nichols、B. Riley。

Yeah, thanks for taking my questions. It's good to see the margins bumping up against that 30% level, and it sounds like you're expecting bigger contribution from these high-margin product lines going forward. If you were to look at the margin profile over the next couple of quarters and the backlog overall, is that a fair assessment that you think that they're going to be saying at or around this 29%-plus level or do you think that they could continue to expand from where they are currently?

是的，謝謝你回答我的問題。很高興看到利潤率突破 30% 的水平，而且聽起來您預計這些高利潤產品線未來會做出更大的貢獻。如果您查看未來幾季的利潤率和總體積壓情況，您認為他們會說達到或接近 29% 以上的水平，這是一個公平的評估，還是您認為他們可以在目前的基礎上繼續擴張嗎？

Yeah. Thanks, Josh. I think we feel pretty comfortable that we're at a decent spot there. We do have that goal of getting it to 30%, which really is just going to be a function of the mix of what ships out in a given quarter.

是的。謝謝，喬許。我認為我們感覺很舒服，因為我們處於一個不錯的位置。我們的目標確實是達到 30%，這實際上只是特定季度出貨量組合的函數。

So I think if you -- with the announcements we've made over the last few months with some new orders coming in, those are some of the higher-margin products. They're starting to build a substantial portion of our backlog around those product lines. So I think our expectation is while we're comfortable, we're in a good spot today, we recognize there's room for more, and we do think there's room for that to expand. Again, a higher sales number, just sort of automatically has a positive impact on our margins as well. So at the end of my comments, I shared that we expect Q4 to be another sequential growth from a sales perspective, which should also give us some help around just margin expansion overall.

因此，我認為，根據過去幾個月我們發布的公告以及一些新訂單的情況，這些都是一些利潤率較高的產品。他們開始圍繞這些產品線建立我們積壓訂單的很大一部分。所以我認為我們的期望是，當我們感到舒服的時候，我們今天處於一個好的位置，我們認識到還有更多的空間，而且我們確實認為還有擴展的空間。同樣，更高的銷售額也會自動對我們的利潤產生正面影響。因此，在我的評論結束時，我表示，從銷售角度來看，我們預計第四季將是另一個連續成長，這也應該為我們整體利潤率擴張提供一些幫助。

Yeah. Could you just dig in to that a little bit further. Could you provide a little bit more color? Nice to see that the backlogs have been trending favorably, you're close to $20 million today. When you look at what's the net backlog and like higher-margin versus lower-margin offerings, I'm just wondering if you could provide a little bit of context around how you see the backlog today.

是的。能再深入一點嗎？你能提供更多一點的顏色嗎？很高興看到積壓訂單一直呈現良好趨勢，今天已接近 2000 萬美元。當您查看淨積壓是多少以及利潤率較高與利潤較低的產品時，我只是想知道您是否可以提供一些有關您如何看待今天積壓的背景資訊。

Yeah, sure. So I think it's finally moving. I guess that's one thing that if you look at our last, probably, four or five quarters, we had certain things that sat in our backlog for a long time and certain customers that were asking us to hold back shipments as they work through their own set of challenges around just the market conditions and overall interest rates and otherwise. So I think we've started to see in this last quarter an evolution of that where we're shipping out some of those items and replacing them with some of the newer product lines that should help us on the margin side. So I think it's roughly stable.

是的，當然。所以我認為它終於動起來了。我想這是一件事，如果你看看我們過去的四個或五個季度，我們的某些事情長期積壓在我們的積壓中，某些客戶要求我們在處理自己的工作時推遲發貨。圍繞市場狀況和整體利率等方面的一系列挑戰。因此，我認為我們在上個季度開始看到這種演變，我們正在運送其中一些產品，並用一些更新的產品線取代它們，這應該有助於我們的利潤率。所以我認為它是大致穩定的。

I mean, you look at it kind of moving between the mid-19s, whether it's $19.5 million or $20.9 million or $21 million, they're kind of in that range. Keeping it around $20 million while seeing sales increase, I think, is helpful. And the $18 million-plus that we booked during the third quarter showed some growth. Obviously, that's a couple of million dollars higher than what we shipped out. So we did see some help there, but it should give us an opportunity to see higher sales numbers coming out of that, and I think we're starting to see that backlog freshen up from some of the things that have been sitting in it for some time.

我的意思是，你看看它在 19 年代中期之間移動，無論是 1950 萬美元、2090 萬美元還是 2100 萬美元，它們都在這個範圍內。我認為，在銷售額成長的同時將其保持在 2000 萬美元左右是有幫助的。我們在第三季預訂的 1800 萬美元以上顯示出一些增長。顯然，這比我們發貨的高出幾百萬美元。因此，我們確實在那裡看到了一些幫助，但這應該讓我們有機會看到由此產生的更高的銷售數字，而且我認為我們開始看到積壓的訂單從一些一直擱置的事情中恢復過來。某個時間。

Yeah. And you talked about having better visibility now that some of the CapEx headwinds have been alleviated and you're seeing small cell densification buildout finally take place, which has been a long time on the come. Is it fair to say that you kind of expect backlog to remain around this $19 million, $20 million level? Or based on what you're seeing in some of these conversations with carriers, do you think that there's good chance that, that could increase significantly from here with the continued flow of large orders?

是的。您談到現在有更好的可見性，因為一些資本支出的不利因素已經緩解，並且您看到小基地台緻密化建設終於發生，這已經是很長一段時間了。可以公平地說，您預計積壓訂單將保持在 1900 萬美元、2000 萬美元左右的水平嗎？或者根據您在與運營商的一些對話中看到的內容，您是否認為隨著大訂單的持續流動，這種情況很可能會從這裡大幅增加？

Yeah. I think around our backlog, I've stated in the past that while it's not a perfect indicator for where we're going next, it is a good health gauge to see that we've got some nice things sitting there, orders in hand. Language in the past have said, look, if it comes down to $14 million or $15 million, that's probably fine. It doesn't need to be in the $20 million range, but I don't expect there to be a significant drop in that with what we know today.

是的。我認為圍繞著我們的積壓工作，我過去曾說過，雖然它不是我們下一步要去哪裡的完美指標，但它是一個很好的健康指標，可以看到我們手頭上有一些不錯的東西和訂單。過去的語言曾說過，看，如果降到 1,400 萬或 1,500 萬美元，那可能就不錯了。它不需要在 2000 萬美元的範圍內，但我不認為根據我們今天所知，這個數字會大幅下降。

The other thing I'll say is as orders start to come in around our expectations for the 2025 spend and that was some of the comments that I made and that Ray made, we are getting more visibility there. So we do ask our customers, obviously, to place orders as early as possible, even if they're going to be drawn out over the course of several quarters just so we can keep the supply chain that much more well-oiled and doing what it's supposed to do. So I think there's chances for it to spike up.

我要說的另一件事是，隨著訂單開始接近我們對 2025 年支出的預期，這是我和雷發表的一些評論，我們在那裡獲得了更多的知名度。因此，顯然，我們確實要求我們的客戶儘早下訂單，即使這些訂單將在幾個季度的時間內完成，這樣我們就可以保持供應鏈更加順暢，並做一些事情它應該做的。所以我認為它有機會飆升。

I think keeping it at $20 million would be spectacular, but I wouldn't have any stress if it were a couple of million bucks lower than that. And obviously, we'd love it if it was higher, but that can also be a function of orders being held back and saying, hey, here's the order, but don't ship it to me for six months. So it can be -- there's times it can be a false positive, and we want to call that out wherever we can.

我認為將其保持在 2000 萬美元會很壯觀，但如果比這個低幾百萬美元我也不會感到任何壓力。顯然，如果它更高，我們會喜歡它，但這也可能是訂單被保留的功能，並說，嘿，這是訂單，但六個月內不要將其運送給我。所以它可能是——有時它可能是誤報，我們希望盡可能地指出這一點。

At the moment, we're seeing it as a pretty consistent short- to midterm kind of backlog where the lion's share of that should go out over the next few quarters and be replaced with new orders.

目前，我們認為這是一種相當一致的中短期積壓訂單，其中大部分應該在未來幾季內用完並被新訂單取代。

Thanks. And then last question, just thinking about the fourth quarter. Good to see you expect sales to be up again sequentially. Anything in terms of, I guess, like the last year or so have been a little bit of anomalies, just given some of the CapEx constraints. But as things start to normalize and we think about like seasonal patterns in ordering and shipping with the carriers, is there anything, I guess, that you're thinking about for fiscal 4Q overall that would impact the magnitude of the sales increase?

謝謝。最後一個問題，只是想一下第四季。很高興看到您預計銷售額將再次成長。我想，就過去一年左右的情況而言，只要考慮到一些資本支出的限制，任何事情都有點反常。但隨著事情開始正常化，我們考慮承運商訂購和運輸的季節性模式，我想，您在第四季度整體考慮的事情是否會影響銷售成長的幅度？

Yeah. So I think it's -- if I could put a number on it, I would. I think we have good comfort that we're going to expand sales again. How much that is really depends on timing of two things. Customers wanting certain orders shipped, and then there's materials being supplied to us. In some cases, we do get materials supplied by customers for some of these key applications that we have to integrate. So the timing of that can also have an impact on it.

是的。所以我認為——如果我能給出一個數字，我會的。我認為我們對將再次擴大銷售感到非常滿意。具體有多少實際上取決於兩件事的時間安排。客戶想要運送某些訂單，然後向我們提供材料。在某些情況下，我們確實會獲得客戶為我們必須整合的一些關鍵應用提供的材料。因此，時機也會對其產生影響。

I think the seasonality, this has been kind of a weird year around carrier seasonality. The market didn't really see the big build season kind of upswing in, call it, late spring, early summer and into this kind of timeframe. I think 2025 might look a little more normal with what we're kind of seeing. It sounds like there's going to be some more understandable build patterns that some of us have been through many times.

我認為季節性，今年對於航空公司的季節性來說有點奇怪。市場並沒有真正看到大型建設季節的上升，所謂的春末夏初，以及進入這樣的時間框架。我認為從我們現在所看到的情況來看，2025 年可能會更加正常。聽起來似乎會有一些更容易理解的建構模式，我們中的一些人已經經歷過很多次了。

I think the other indicator that we have is our backlog while remaining strong we start looking out to the first quarter, and seasonally, the first quarter has always been the most challenging for us just because there's less business days. If we can continue seeing some of these more operational kinds of orders, I think we can try to start smoothing that out a little bit, so there's no such significant impact from that. But as far as Q4 goes, I don't think there's anything that should radically impact us one way or the other.

我認為我們擁有的另一個指標是我們的積壓，同時保持強勁，我們開始關注第一季度，從季節性角度來看，第一季度對我們來說一直是最具挑戰性的，因為工作日較少。如果我們能夠繼續看到一些更具操作性的訂單，我認為我們可以嘗試開始稍微平滑一下，這樣就不會產生如此重大的影響。但就第四季而言，我認為沒有任何事情會對我們產生根本性的影響。

Appreciate it. Thanks. I'll hop back on the queue.

欣賞它。謝謝。我會重新回到隊列中。

Thank you, Josh.

謝謝你，喬許。

(Operator Instructions) Steve Kohl, Mangrove.

（操作員說明）Steve Kohl，Mangrove。

Hey, good afternoon, guys. Good quarter. I had a couple of questions, I guess, Rob, I'm trying to get at. So the good news we're seeing margins pushing up to 30%, but we're still, obviously, not getting into where we're seeing this tipping point on leverage where we start to see a greater proportion coming to the bottom line. Can you give a little bit of more comfort to what you're seeing when we start to see that -- when we start to see profitability accelerating?

嘿，下午好，夥計們。好季度。我想我有幾個問題，羅布，我正在努力解答。因此，好消息是我們看到利潤率上升至 30%，但顯然，我們仍然沒有達到槓桿的臨界點，我們開始看到更大的比例達到底線。當我們開始看到這一點時——當我們開始看到盈利能力加速成長時，您能否對您所看到的情況感到更加安慰？

And what -- I know you mentioned revenues will help that, and I appreciate that. And obviously, you've got the mix going your way. But is that something you're looking when we look out to the near to intermediate term you're seeing or what should we look for? I know you don't give guidance out into '25. I'm just curious if you can give us some color on that.

我知道你提到收入會有所幫助，我對此表示讚賞。顯然，你已經按照自己的方式進行了混音。但是，當我們展望您所看到的近期或中期時，這是您正在尋找的東西嗎？我知道你不會在 25 年後提供指導。我只是好奇你能否給我們一些關於這一點的資訊。

Yeah, good question. So I think the -- as we've stated in the past, in the old days, whatever timeframe you want to call that, we had a number -- we had to be $18 million-plus to kind of be breakeven, and then we should see some better numbers from there. We've been working that down from what used to be a $20 million number to where we really saw the leverage. I think we've taken out enough expense that as we start to see the $16 million to $16.8 million kind of flow that we saw, not a huge jump in sales, but you can see from a margin perspective, what a big impact that does have for us overall.

是的，好問題。所以我認為——正如我們過去所說的，在過去，無論你想稱之為什麼時間框架，我們都有一個數字——我們必須達到 1800 萬美元以上才能實現收支平衡，然後我們應該從那裡看到一些更好的數字。我們一直在努力將這個數字從原來的 2000 萬美元降到我們真正看到的槓桿水平。我認為我們已經支出了足夠的費用，當我們開始看到我們看到的1600 萬至1680 萬美元的流量時，銷售額並沒有大幅增長，但你可以從利潤率的角度來看，這會產生多大的影響對我們來說整體而言。

We do believe that if we can push sales back up to an $18 million-plus kind of number on a quarterly basis. That's where I expect there to be a significant change in what prints through to the bottom-line impact. Between, call it, $16.8 million and $18 million, I think there's acceleration, but I think we feel like just from a modeling perspective, the real acceleration happens at that $18 million-plus number. And if we can get our sales back up to a $20 million a quarter, a lot of these conversations change drastically because mix will certainly help. But also once we've covered our fixed cost, there's not a lot that happens below the gross profit line for us. It's a pretty simple P&L when you look down on the operating expense. We're light on R&D, we're light on CapEx. It really does come down to can we cover our labor costs and our facility costs of having people building things.

我們確實相信，如果我們能夠將季度銷售額推回到 1800 萬美元以上的數字。這就是我預計對底線影響的影響將會發生重大變化的地方。在 1680 萬美元和 1800 萬美元之間，我認為存在加速，但我認為我們覺得僅從建模角度來看，真正的加速發生在 1800 萬美元以上的數字上。如果我們能讓季度銷售額恢復到 2000 萬美元，許多對話都會發生巨大變化，因為混合肯定會有所幫助。但一旦我們支付了固定成本，我們就不會發生太多低於毛利線的事情。當你忽略營運費用時，這是一個非常簡單的損益表。我們不注重研發，也不注重資本支出。這確實取決於我們能否支付我們的勞動成本和讓人建造東西的設施成本。

Once we've done that, the affordability kicks in and then you really get the leverage. So I think best color I can give is if we can push a number $18 million-plus, I think we'll really start to see a different overall look.

一旦我們做到了這一點，負擔能力就會發揮作用，然後你就真正獲得了影響力。所以我認為我能給的最好的顏色是如果我們能夠推動 1800 萬美元以上的數字，我認為我們真的會開始看到不同的整體外觀。

And could you give us maybe just a quick update? I know you've talked about facility consolidations. Can you mention what do we have today? I know we have the West Coast and the East Coast, but is the two major hubs, and is there some other stuff that I'm missing? Or maybe you can just give me a quick snapshot of where we are on the consolidation of facility?

能為我們簡單介紹一下最新情況嗎？我知道您談到設施整合。可以提一下我們今天有什麼嗎？我知道我們有西海岸和東海岸，但這是兩個主要樞紐，還有其他我遺漏的東西嗎？或者您可以簡單介紹一下我們在設施整合方面的進展嗎？

Sure. Yeah. So we have a total of four facilities of size. We have the San Diego facility, which is our headquarters and the primary work that goes on in the facility where Peter and I are sitting right now, RF cable assemblies, fiber cable assemblies, data cables. So it's more the cable assembly side of things, largely distribution influenced. We have a facility in New Jersey that was the legacy Microlab business that we moved to a facility and combined with what was the legacy Schroff Tech business. So out of that facility is our RF passives as well as the both small cell and DAC product lines are being produced out of there and location-wise servicing a pretty key market for us in the New York Metro area.

當然。是的。所以我們總共有四個大小設施。我們有聖地牙哥工廠，這是我們的總部，也是我和彼得現在所在的工廠中進行的主要工作，包括射頻電纜組件、光纖電纜組件、數據電纜。因此，更多的是電纜組件方面的問題，很大程度上受到分佈的影響。我們在新澤西州有一家工廠，它是 Microlab 的傳統業務，我們搬到了該工廠，並與 Schroff Tech 的傳統業務合併。因此，我們的射頻被動元件以及小型蜂窩和 DAC 產品線就是在該工廠生產的，並在位置上為我們在紐約都會區的一個非常重要的市場提供服務。

We then have in Milford, Connecticut and in Yaphank, New York on Long Island, we have custom assembly. So custom work with two businesses we've owned for quite some time and more regionalized product lines with the exception of hybrid fiber, which is made in our Long Island facility as well. So we have those four facilities overall.

然後，我們在康乃狄克州米爾福德和紐約長島的雅芬克進行客製化組裝。因此，與我們擁有相當長一段時間的兩家企業以及更多區域化的產品線進行客製化合作，但混合纖維除外，混合纖維也是在我們的長島工廠生產的。所以我們總共擁有這四個設施。

And last question is, you talked about volatility kind of the Microlab and the venue market, I know the venue market can help you in some other areas, too. But what are you seeing? Obviously, I'm sure you look at the landscape closer than we do on a day-to-day basis, but are you getting some encouragement when we look at the likes of CommScope kind of turning the corner a bit, being more positive. We see the fiber guys being more positive, they're laying the cable. Is the ecosystem getting better? I know you still mentioned there's still some cautious optimism, but what needs to happen for that to kind of move us into a better macro state from what you'd expect?

最後一個問題是，您談到了 Microlab 和場館市場的波動性，我知道場館市場也可以在其他一些領域為您提供幫助。但你看到了什麼？顯然，我相信您比我們日常觀察更仔細，但是當我們看到像康普這樣的公司稍微扭轉局面、變得更加積極時，您是否會得到一些鼓勵。我們看到光纖人員更加積極，他們正在鋪設電纜。生態系變得更好了嗎？我知道您仍然提到仍然存在一些謹慎的樂觀情緒，但是需要發生什麼才能使我們進入比您期望的更好的宏觀狀態？

Yeah. I think the companies that you referenced, we certainly watch as key indicators. CommScope made the decision to divest a key piece of its legacy kind of wireless focused business, the old Andrew product lines and some related in the last few months. And I think that's an interesting decision on their part, but strategically, that's still a critical product line that we view as complementary and competitive both.

是的。我認為您提到的公司，我們當然將其視為關鍵指標。在過去的幾個月裡，康普決定剝離傳統無線業務的關鍵部分、舊的安德魯產品線和一些相關產品。我認為這對他們來說是一個有趣的決定，但從戰略上講，這仍然是一個關鍵的產品線，我們認為兩者是互補和競爭的。

But I think overall, when you look at the market, whether it's rural carrier spending and the BEAD spending that's supposed to bring Internet to all locations, whether that's data centers increasing in their capacity and the equipment being pushed to the edges or just general densification of wireless, I think interest rate cuts will certainly help with the carriers wanting to spend more or whoever is financing those. Those are largely debt-based spending kinds of patterns. So interest rates do come down like the predictions are, I think that's a help.

但我認為總體而言，當你審視市場時，無論是農村運營商支出還是將互聯網帶到所有地點的BEAD 支出，無論是數據中心容量的增加和設備被推到邊緣，還是只是普遍的緻密化對於無線業務，我認為降息肯定會對那些想要增加支出的運營商或任何為其融資的人有所幫助。這些主要是基於債務的支出模式。因此，利率確實像預測一樣下降，我認為這是一個幫助。

And I think just generally, while we don't have specifics from every customer on, hey, here's what 2025 looks like from a CapEx perspective, we are hearing that the market is starting to look a little more normalized. And again, that word is probably overused, but I think to us, what that means is maybe the cycle will make more sense. There's always a pause in carrier spending in any build cycle. I think the densification piece is still a critical one and needs to continue happening, and we're positioned well for that.

我認為一般來說，雖然我們沒有每個客戶的具體情況，嘿，從資本支出的角度來看，這是 2025 年的情況，但我們聽說市場開始看起來更正常化。再說一次，這個詞可能被過度使用了，但我認為對我們來說，這意味著也許這個週期會更有意義。在任何建造週期中，營運商的支出總是會暫停。我認為緻密化仍然是一個關鍵的部分，需要繼續進行，我們為此做好了充分的準備。

So on the venue side, I understand why there was a pause. It's sort of the experience within venues or within large facilities has certainly gotten better, but there needs to be another step in that. If you've been to any large events, whether that's concerts or sporting events or otherwise, where there's a lot of people that show up in a place for a short period of time and then go away, you got to have coverage in there that it exceeds really the capacity that's put on it. And some places have done better than others, but there's still a lot of things on the docket that need to happen.

所以在場地方面，我理解為什麼會有暫停。場館或大型設施內的體驗肯定已經變得更好，但還需要進一步的措施。如果您參加過任何大型活動，無論是音樂會、體育賽事還是其他活動，其中有很多人在某個地方短暫出現然後離開，那麼您必須在那裡進行報道它確實超出了它的容量。有些地方做得比其他地方好，但仍有許多事情要做。

During '24, we didn't see a lot of that. There weren't a lot of the large venues being touched up. There were smaller sort of enterprise-level venues, office buildings and otherwise. Clearly, public safety is one that we believe is a heavy push as we get forward in locations like education environments, campus environments like that.

在 24 年期間，我們沒有看到很多這樣的情況。沒有很多大型場館被改造。還有較小的企業級場館、辦公大樓等。顯然，我們認為公共安全是我們在教育環境、校園環境等領域進步的重要推手。

So I think we're hearing that it's going to be a little better. Going forward, that doesn't guarantee anything, but we're hopeful for some of that all boats rise piece that can bring up some of the product areas that have been a little more distressed for us.

所以我認為我們聽說情況會好一點。展望未來，這並不能保證任何事情，但我們希望所有的船隻都能崛起，從而帶來一些對我們來說比較困難的產品領域。

Sounds great. Thank you very much. I'll get back on the queue.

聽起來很棒。非常感謝。我會回到隊列中。

Thanks, Steve.

謝謝，史蒂夫。

Thank you. There were no other questions at this time. I would now like to hand the call back to Rob Dawson, CEO at RF Industries, for closing remarks.

謝謝。此時沒有其他問題了。現在我想將電話轉回給 RF Industries 執行長 Rob Dawson，讓其發表結束語。

Great. Thank you, Paul, and thank you, everyone, for joining us today. We look forward to sharing our Q4 results here in a few months. Have a good day.

偉大的。謝謝保羅，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。我們期待在幾個月後在這裡分享我們第四季度的結果。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you. This does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與。