Chicago Atlantic Real Estate Finance Inc (REFI) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the Chicago Atlantic Real Estate Finance Inc. 3rd quarter 2025 earnings call.

您好，歡迎來到芝加哥大西洋房地產金融公司。2025年第三季財報電話會議。

Today all participants will be in a listen-only mode. Should you need assistance during today's call, please signal for a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by 0.

今天所有參與者將處於唯讀模式。如果您在今天的通話中需要協助，請按星號鍵，然後按 0，即可呼叫會議專家。

After today's presentation there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question you may press, then 1 on your telephone keypad to withdraw your question, please press star, then 2. Please note that today's event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Trip Sullivan of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

今天的演講結束後，將有機會提問。若要提問，請按電話鍵盤上的 1，要撤回您的問題，請按星號，然後按 2。請注意，今天的活動正在錄影。現在我將把會議交給投資者關係部的特里普·沙利文。請繼續。

Thank you. Good morning. Welcome to the Chicago Atlantic Real Estate Finance conference call to review the company's results. On the call today will be Peter Sack, co-Chief Executive Officer, David Kite, Chief Operating Officer, and Phil Silverman, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝。早安.歡迎參加芝加哥大西洋房地產金融公司電話會議，本次會議將回顧公司業績。今天參加電話會議的有：聯合執行長彼得·薩克、營運長大衛·凱特和財務長菲爾·西爾弗曼。

Our results were released this morning in our earnings press release, which can be found in the best relations section of our website, along with our supplemental filed with the SEC.

今天上午，我們在獲利新聞稿中發布了業績報告，您可以在我們網站的「最佳關係」部分找到新聞稿，以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的補充文件。

A live audio webcast of this call is being made available today. For those who listen to the replay of this webcast, we remind you that the remarks made here and as of today and will not be updated subsequent to this call. During this call, certain comments and statements we make may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning prescribed by the securities laws, including statements related to the future performance of our portfolio, our pipeline of potential loans, and other investments, future dividends, and financing activities.

今天將提供本次電話會議的即時音訊網路直播。對於收聽本次網路直播回放的聽眾，我們提醒您，本次直播中發表的言論截至今日有效，此後將不再更新。在本次電話會議中，我們發表的某些評論和聲明可能被視為證券法規定意義上的前瞻性聲明，包括與我們投資組合的未來表現、我們潛在的貸款和其他投資、未來股息和融資活動相關的聲明。

All forward-looking statements represent Chicago Atlantic's judgment as of the date of this conference call and are subject to risk and uncertainties that can cause actual results to differ materially from our current expectations.

所有前瞻性陳述均代表芝加哥大西洋公司截至本次電話會議之日的判斷，並受風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果與我們目前的預期有重大差異。

Investors are urged to carefully review various disclosures made by the company, including the risk and other information disclosed in the company's filings with the SEC.

投資者應仔細審查公司所做的各種揭露，包括公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中揭露的風險和其他資訊。

We also will discuss certain non-GAAP measures, including but not limited to distributable earnings. Definitions of these non-GAAP measures and reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP measures are included in our filings with the SEC. I'll now turn the call over to Peter Sack.

我們也將討論一些非GAAP指標，包括但不限於可分配收益。這些非GAAP指標的定義以及與最可比較GAAP指標的調節表均包含在我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中。現在我將把電話交給彼得·薩克。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Thank you, Trip. Good morning, everyone.

謝謝你，特里普。各位早安。

This quarter against the backdrop of a volatile private credit environment, we demonstrate another consistent period of execution and performance.

本季度，在私人信貸環境動盪的背景下，我們再次展現了持續穩定的執行力和績效。

The benefits of our consistent approach and discipline focus on principal protection yielded a strong quarter, and this quarter's gross originations have us on pace to hit our goal of net growth in the loan portfolio.

我們堅持不懈地採取穩健的策略，並嚴格把控本金保護，這使得本季業績強勁成長。本季貸款總額的成長使我們有望實現貸款組合淨成長的目標。

Challenges in private credit markets have created newfound concern in the investor community.

私人信貸市場面臨的挑戰引起了投資者群體的新一輪擔憂。

Declining interest rates impacted lenders with floating rate portfolios. The syndicated loan market experienced high profile fails of fraud.

利率下降對持有浮動利率貸款組合的貸款機構造成了影響。銀團貸款市場曾發生多起引人注目的詐欺事件。

And excess capital in the market underlies the perceived lack of underwriting standards.

市場資本過剩是造成人們認為承保標準不足的根本原因。

I suspect that these broader concerns have caused us to trade at a sizable discount to our book value rather than the premium we long enjoyed since our IPO nearly 4 years ago.

我懷疑，這些更廣泛的擔憂導致我們的股價大幅低於帳面價值，而不是像近 4 年前首次公開募股以來那樣長期享有溢價。

Noting this disconnect from the reality of our portfolio, our management team and board of directors recently purchased shares on the open market, bringing our collective ownership of the common stock to nearly 1.8 million shares on a fully diluted basis.

鑑於此與我們投資組合的實際情況脫節，我們的管理團隊和董事會最近在公開市場上購買了股票，使我們集體持有的普通股數量（完全稀釋後）接近 180 萬股。

There are several reasons why we're so confident with what we've created at Chicago Atlantic.

我們對在芝加哥大西洋城所取得的成就充滿信心，原因有很多。

The first is that we have a cannabis pipeline that currently stands at approximately 441 million.

首先，我們目前擁有約 4.41 億的大麻供應鏈。

We believe that this pipeline of opportunities is unrivaled in the industry and is diversified across growth investments, maturities in the market, M&A activity related to operational and balance sheet restructurings, and potential ESOP sale transactions.

我們相信，這項投資機會管道在業界是無與倫比的，涵蓋了成長型投資、市場成熟度、與營運和資產負債表重組相關的併購活動以及潛在的員工持股計畫出售交易。

Secondly, we have the most robust platform and capital to meet the growth of the industry. We deploy capital with consumer and product-focused operators in limited license jurisdictions at low leverage profiles to support fundamentally sound growth initiatives.

其次，我們擁有最強大的平台和資金，能夠滿足產業發展的需求。我們向在許可證受限地區以低槓桿率運作、以消費者和產品為中心的營運商部署資金，以支援基本面良好的成長計畫。

I can't think of a better example of our commitment to the industry than Chicago Atlantic's funding this quarter of what we believe to be the largest real estate-backed revolving credit facility among US operators in the history of the industry, a $75 million 3-year secured revolver with Verona.

芝加哥大西洋公司本季為我們認為是美國營運商在業內歷史上規模最大的房地產支持循環信貸安排——與 Verona 簽訂的 7500 萬美元 3 年期擔保循環信貸協議——提供了資金，這無疑是我們對該行業承諾的最佳例證。

Lastly, we've constructed a portfolio with differentiated and low levered risk return profile that is insulated from both cannabis equity and interest rate volatility.

最後，我們建立了一個具有差異化和低槓桿風險回報特徵的投資組合，該組合能夠抵禦大麻股票和利率波動的影響。

As David will break down for you in a moment, because we have structured our floating loans with interest rate floors, only approximately 14% of our total loan portfolio is exposed to any further rate declines based on today's 7% prime rate.

正如大衛稍後會向你詳細解釋的那樣，由於我們的浮動利率貸款設定了利率下限，因此根據目前的 7% 優惠利率，我們總貸款組合中只有大約 14% 的貸款會受到進一步利率下降的影響。

That discipline provides a meaningful measure of protection to the portfolio.

這種紀律為投資組合提供了一定程度的保護。

We are focused on outperforming and delivering the kind of returns that we all expect to shareholders. Confidence in the strategy is important, and hopefully I've provided some insight into why we are enthusiastic and why we as a management team executed share repurchases in recent weeks.

我們專注於超越預期，為股東帶來我們所有人都期望的回報。對策略的信心至關重要，希望我已經闡明了我們為何充滿熱情，以及我們管理團隊為何在最近幾週執行股票回購的原因。

But execution on our plan matters even more, and I look forward to reporting on our continued progress over the balance of the year.

但計劃的執行更為重要，我期待在今年餘下的時間裡報告我們取得的持續進展。

David, why don't you take it from here?

大衛，接下來就交給你吧？

Thank you, Peter. As of September 30th, our loan portfolio principal totaled approximately $400 million across 26 portfolio companies with a weighted average yield to maturity of 16.5% compared with 16.8% for the second quarter.

謝謝你，彼得。截至 9 月 30 日，我們的貸款組合本金總額約為 4 億美元，涵蓋 26 家投資組合公司，加權平均到期收益率為 16.5%，而第二季為 16.8%。

Gross originations during the quarter were 39.5 million of principal fundings, of which 11 million was advanced to a new borrower and 20 million was related to the new Verano credit facility that Peter mentioned earlier.

本季總發放貸款金額為 3,950 萬本金，其中 1,100 萬人發放給一位新借款人，2,000 萬人與 Peter 先前提到的 Verano 新信貸安排有關。

These were offset by unscheduled principal repayments of $62.7 million that we disclosed last quarter.

這些被上季披露的 6,270 萬美元非計劃本金償還額所抵消。

As of September 30, 2025, our portfolio consisted of 36.7% fixed rate loans and 63.3% floating rate loans.

截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日，我們的投資組合包括 36.7% 的固定利率貸款和 63.3% 的浮動利率貸款。

The floating rate portion is primarily benchmarked to the prime rate. Following last week's 25 basis point rate reduction, bringing the prime rate to 7%, only 14% of our portfolio remains exposed to further rate decline. The remaining 86% is either fixed rate or protected by primate floors of 7% or higher. Importantly, our floating rate loans are not exposed to interest rate caps. This structural advantage combined with our rate floor protections. Positions our portfolio favorably compared to most mortgage rates. Should the Federal Reserve implement another adjustment to the Fed funds target, in December, we are well insulated against the adverse effects of declining interest rates.

浮動利率部分主要以最優惠利率為基準。繼上週降息 25 個基點，使基準利率降至 7% 之後，我們投資組合中只有 14% 的資產仍面臨進一步降息的風險。剩餘的 86% 要么是固定利率，要么受到 7% 或更高的靈長類動物最低利率的保護。重要的是，我們的浮動利率貸款不受利率上限的限制。這項結構性優勢與我們的利率下限保護措施相結合。與大多數抵押貸款利率相比，這使我們的投資組合具有優勢。如果聯準會在 12 月再次調整聯邦基金目標利率，我們完全可以免受利率下降的不利影響。

Total leverage equaled 33% of book equity at September 30 compared with 39% as of June 30.

截至 9 月 30 日，總槓桿率相當於帳面權益的 33%，而截至 6 月 30 日，比例為 39%。

As of September 30, we had 52.4 million outstanding on our senior secured revolving credit facility and 49.3 million outstanding on our unsecured term loan.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們的優先擔保循環信貸額度未償還餘額為 5,240 萬美元，無擔保定期貸款未償還餘額為 4,930 萬美元。

As of today, we have approximately 69.1 million available on the senior credit facility and total liquidity, that of estimated liabilities of approximately $63 million.

截至今日，我們的優先信貸額度可用資金約為 6,910 萬美元，總流動性約為 6,300 萬美元（估計負債）。

I'll now turn it over to Phil.

現在我把麥克風交給菲爾。

Thanks David. Our net interest income of $13.7 million for the third quarter represented a 5.1% decrease from 14.4 million during the second quarter of 2025. The decrease was primarily attributable to non-recurring prepayment, make whole, exit and structuring fees, which amounted to 1.1 million for Q3 2025 compared with $1.5 million in Q2 2025. Additionally, approximately 0.1 million of the decrease in net interest income was attributed to the impact of the 25 basis point rate cut late in September on our floating rate portfolio and interest expense on our revolving credit facility.

謝謝你，大衛。第三季淨利息收入為 1,370 萬美元，比 2025 年第二季的 1,440 萬美元減少了 5.1%。下降主要歸因於非經常性預付款、補償金、退出費和結構化費用，2025 年第三季這些費用為 110 萬美元，而 2025 年第二季為 150 萬美元。此外，淨利息收入減少約 0.1 百萬是由於 9 月下旬 25 個基點的降息對我們的浮動利率投資組合和循環信貸額度的利息支出造成的影響。

Total interest expense, including non-cash amortization of financing costs for the third quarter, was approximately $1.6 million down from $2.1 million in the second quarter.

第三季總利息支出（包括非現金融資成本攤提）約 160 萬美元，低於第二季的 210 萬美元。

The weighted average borrowings on our revolving loan decreased $14 million compared to 42.3 million during the second quarter.

與第二季的 4,230 萬美元相比，我們循環貸款的加權平均借款額減少了 1,400 萬美元。

Our Cil reserve on our loans held for investment as of September 30th, 2025 was approximately $5 million compared with 4.4 million as of June 30th.

截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日，我們用於投資的貸款的 CIL 儲備金約為 500 萬美元，而截至 6 月 30 日為 440 萬美元。

On a relative size basis, our reserve for expected credit losses represents approximately 1.25% of our outstanding principal of our loans held for investment.

以相對規模計算，我們為預期信貸損失提列的準備金約占我們投資貸款未償本金的 1.25%。

On a weighted average basis, our portfolio maintains strong real estate coverage of 1.2 times. Our loans are secured by various forms of other collateral in addition to real estate, including UCC1, all asset liens on our borrowed credit parties. These other collateral types contribute to overall credit quality and lower loan to value ratios. Our portfolio has a loan to enterprise value ratio on a weighted average basis of 43.5%. As of September 30th, calculated as senior indebtedness of the borrower divided by the fair value of total collateral to refund.

以加權平均計算，我們的投資組合維持著1.2倍的強勁房地產覆蓋率。除了房地產外，我們的貸款還以各種其他形式的抵押品作為擔保，包括 UCC1，以及對我們藉款債權人的所有資產留置權。這些其他類型的抵押品有助於提高整體信用品質並降低貸款價值比。我們的投資組合的貸款與企業價值比率（按加權平均計算）為 43.5%。截至 9 月 30 日，該比率的計算方法為：借款人的優先債務除以用於償還的全部抵押品的公允價值。

Distributable earnings per weighted average share on a basic and fully diluted basis were approximately $0.50 and $0.49 for the third quarter, a modest decrease from $0.52 and $0.51 respectively during the second quarter. And in October we distributed the third quarter dividend of $0.47 per common share declared by our board in September.

第三季以基本和完全稀釋基準計算的加權平均每股可分配收益約為 0.50 美元和 0.49 美元，較第二季的 0.52 美元和 0.51 美元略有下降。10 月份，我們派發了董事會 9 月宣布的第三季股息，每股普通股派發 0.47 美元。

Our book value per common share outstanding was $14.71 as of September 30, 2025, and there were approximately 21.5 million common shares outstanding on a fully diluted basis as of such date.

截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日，我們每股普通股帳面價值為 14.71 美元，截至該日，以完全稀釋基準計算，已發行普通股約 2,150 萬股。

We continue to expect to maintain a dividend payout ratio based on our basic distributable earnings per share of 90 to 100% for the 2025 tax year. If our taxable income requires additional distributions more than the regular quarter dividend to meet our taxable income requirements, we expect to meet that requirement with a special dividend in the fourth quarter. Operator, we're now ready to take questions.

我們預計 2025 課稅年度將維持每股基本可分配收益 90% 至 100% 的股利支付率。如果為了滿足應稅收入要求，我們需要在常規季度股息之外額外分配資金，我們預計將在第四季度透過派發特別股息來滿足這項要求。接線員，我們現在可以開始回答問題了。

Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. To ask a question, you may press start then one on your telephone keypad.

謝謝。現在開始問答環節。若要提問，您可以按下電話鍵盤上的開始鍵，然後按1鍵。

If you're using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys to withdraw your question, please press star, then 2.

如果您正在使用免持電話，請在按下按鍵撤回您的問題之前拿起聽筒，請按星號，然後按 2。

At this time we will take today's first question from Erin Gray with Alliance Global Partners. Please proceed.

現在讓我們來回答來自 Alliance Global Partners 的 Erin Gray 提出的第一個問題。請繼續。

Hi, good morning and thank you very much for the questions here.

您好，早安，非常感謝您提出的問題。

First question for me, I just want to talk about the pipeline a bit. So 4:15, I know it's down a little bit from prior quarters. So just wanted to talk a bit where there's some large potential originations that exited the pipeline, and I know prior quarter you had talked about Epos and potential opportunity there so wanted to see if you still see those as appealing and within the pipeline opportunities.

我的第一個問題是，我想簡單談談管道方面的問題。所以，4:15，我知道這比前幾季略有下降。所以我想稍微談談一些大型潛在專案退出了流程的情況，我知道上個季度您談到了 Epos 以及那裡的潛在機會，所以我想知道您是否仍然認為這些專案很有吸引力，並且仍在流程中。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yes, ESOPs continue to form a large part of the pipeline.

是的，員工持股計畫仍然是人才儲備的重要組成部分。

There was no significant exits other than ordinary turnaround of our pipeline quarter over quarter. We have our pipeline tends to refresh, every quarter or so as deals that as deals either disappear, get turned down by us or get funded, and so.

除了管道環比正常週轉外，沒有其他重大退出。我們的專案儲備大約每季都會更新，因為交易要么消失，要么被我們拒絕，要么獲得資金等等。

Changes quarter over quarter ordinary term.

季度環比變化（普通期）。

Okay, great, glad to hear ESops are still a good opportunity for you guys. Second question for me just in terms of some of the loans that are maturing before year end, any color you can talk about in terms of how those conversations are panning out. I know you're still, targeting, net portfolio growth for the year, so any color on those would be greatly appreciated.

好的，太好了，很高興聽到員工創業者計畫（ESops）對你們來說仍然是一個不錯的機會。第二個問題是關於一些在年底前到期的貸款，您能否談談這些談判的進展？我知道你們今年的目標仍然是實現投資組合的淨增長，所以如果能提供一些相關信息，我將不勝感激。

We are in the midst of negotiating.

我們正在進行談判。

The terms under which we may extend to maintain the business and maintain the position.

我們可能會延長合約期限以維持業務並維持市場地位。

And I expect that the vast majority of those loans that are maturing before the end of the year, we will retain in some form or another.

我預計，在年底前到期的絕大多數貸款，我們將以某種形式保留下來。

Okay, that's great to hear. Last question for me, no direct. Implications for for new cannabis legalization in the election today, but some indirect, particularly for Virginia, if there is a new government that comes in that's more pro cannabis, particularly looking at that state. I know new states coming online could be, a good opportunity for you guys. So have you, how would you guys actually to look at a state like Virginia in terms of the opportunities there, and how the regulatory landscape exists today and could exist tomorrow based on past legislation for retail set up?

好的，聽到這個消息真是太好了。最後一個問題，沒有直接提問。今天的選舉對大麻合法化產生了一些影響，但有些影響是間接的，特別是對維吉尼亞州而言，如果新政府更支持大麻合法化，尤其考慮到該州的情況。我知道新州加入網路對你們來說可能是一個很好的機會。那麼，你們會如何看待像維吉尼亞州這樣的州，從那裡的機會來看，以及根據過去零售業設立的立法，該州目前的監管環境和未來的監管環境會是什麼樣的呢？

Thank you.

謝謝。

We think Virginia is a very attractive medical market due to its very controlled licenser structure and and the way in which the regular has set up the geographic orientation of license holders, and we think it'll be an extremely attractive recreational market as well. So as it as as those discussions progress, we'll be looking to expand our relationships in the state and deploy capital.

我們認為維吉尼亞州是一個非常有吸引力的醫療市場，因為它擁有非常嚴格的許可證發放結構，並且監管機構對許可證持有者的地理分佈進行了規範。我們認為它也將是一個極具吸引力的娛樂市場。隨著這些討論的進展，我們將尋求擴大我們在該州的關係並投入資金。

Okay, great, thanks for the call I'll go ahead and jump into the queue.

好的，太好了，謝謝你的電話，我這就去排隊。

Thanks sir.

謝謝您，先生。

And today's next question comes from Chris Muller with Citizen Capital Markets. Please proceed.

今天的下一個問題來自 Citizen Capital Markets 的 Chris Muller。請繼續。

And and congrats on another solid quarter here. So you guys have done a really great job, underwriting a pretty challenging part of the market here. So can you guys talk about your approach to underwriting and what's driving that success? Is it more the type of borrowers you focus on for the geographies or maybe a combination of those?

恭喜你們又一個季度業績穩健。所以你們做得非常出色，承保了這部分頗具挑戰性的市場業務。那麼，你們能否談談你們的核保方法以及成功的關鍵因素？您更關注的是特定地區的借款人類型，還是兩者兼而有之？

Yeah, I think you've hit on some of the key points. The first, I think the foundation of our underwriting is an analysis of each of the markets, each of the market, each of the markets of the 40 states that have legalized medical or recreational cannabis, and that underwrite begins before we've deployed a single dollar into that market. And it's not just to focus on this, on the state, it's also a fo it's also a deeper dive into each piece of the supply chain within that market.

是的，我覺得你已經說到一些關鍵點了。我認為，我們承保的基礎是對每個市場進行分析，即對已經將醫用或娛樂用大麻合法化的 40 個州的每個市場進行分析，而這種承保在我們向該市場投入一美元之前就開始了。而且，重點不只是這個州，還要更深入研究該市場供應鏈的每一個環節。

We focus on limited license jurisdictions, because we find that in these spaces, the regulatory mode creates greater predictability of wholesale prices, margins, and the competitive environment.

我們專注於有限許可管轄區，因為我們發現，在這些地區，監管模式能夠更好地預測批發價格、利潤率和競爭環境。

Within that framework, we focus on operators with a diverse source of earning streams, whether that's earnings coming from a diverse portfolio of retail operations, retail and vertical integration, or retail vertical integration spread across multiple limited license states.

在此框架下，我們專注於擁有多元化收入來源的營運商，無論其收入來自多元化的零售業務組合、零售和垂直整合，或是分佈在多個有限授權州的零售垂直整合。

Yeah, it's all very helpful and I guess.

是的，這都很有幫助，我想也是。

And then and then lastly, and in addition to apologies, in addition to real estate collateral, we're focused on lending to operators at conservative leverage levels of under 2 times.

最後，除了道歉和房地產抵押之外，我們還專注於以低於 2 倍的保守槓桿水平向營運商提供貸款。

And the combination of all of these factors frankly allows for diversity of repayment, diversity of potential growth opportunities. And then while we're instructuring loans, I think it's important that in the majority of our loans, not only is our capital going towards growth initiatives that drive to improvement.

坦白說，所有這些因素結合起來，使得還款方式多樣化，潛在的成長機會也多樣化。然後，當我們設計貸款方案時，我認為重要的是，我們的大部分貸款不僅要將資金用於推動改善的成長計畫。

And the majority of our loans also include amortization. And so the aims that the aims that are Our loans will be less risky by their maturity date, by virtue of even the growth and loan pay down than they were at the outset, and that we can then continue to support those clients in the next phase of their growth, whether that's acquisitions, expansion of cultivation, expansion of retail.

而且我們的大部分貸款也包括攤提。因此，我們的目標是，到貸款到期時，由於成長和貸款償還，貸款風險將比開始時更低，這樣我們就可以繼續支持這些客戶進入下一個成長階段，無論是收購、擴大種植還是擴大零售。

And it's it's really just consistency with what we think are pretty simple fundamental approach to this industry, a focus on credit quality and a focus on principal protection that's allowed us to maintain the track record through a lot of volatility in equity valuations and in and in the marketplaces, the operating marketplaces in each of these states.

而這實際上只是與我們認為對這個行業非常簡單的基本方法保持一致，即專注於信貸品質和本金保護，這使我們能夠在股票估值和市場（包括每個州的營運市場）的劇烈波動中保持良好的業績記錄。

Yeah that's very helpful and I guess maybe looking forward a little bit. So looking at the LTVs your portfolio, they're well below what we see for a typical commercial mortgage rate. So if we do end up getting some type of reform, whether it's this year or next year, whenever that timing is, what type of normalized LTV would you expect to see in the portfolio?

是的，這很有幫助，我想也許還能稍微期待一下。因此，從您投資組合的貸款成數來看，它們遠低於典型的商業抵押貸款利率。所以，如果我們最終真的進行某種改革，無論是今年還是明年，無論何時，您預計投資組合中會出現什麼樣的標準化貸款價值比 (LTV)？

Well, it's a difficult, it's a it's a difficult question, it's a difficult question to answer, cause there's a few variables.

嗯，這是一個很難回答的問題，因為其中涉及一些變數。

I would expect that in the case if the reform that we're discussing about is rescheduling.

我預計，如果我們討論的改革是重新安排賽程的話，情況就是如此。

I haven't seen examples of a significant amount of new lenders entering the market.

我還沒有看到大量新貸款機構進入市場的例子。

In the event of rescheduling.

如果需要重新安排時間。

And so I think there's there's opportunity to increase our loan sizes in many cases with many of our borrowers by nature of the improved cash flow dynamics of operators in a rescheduling environment because of the lack of the impact of 280E taxes.

因此，我認為，由於 280E 稅的影響消失，營運商在重新安排債務重組的環境下現金流動態得到改善，這為我們在許多情況下增加對許多藉款人的貸款規模提供了機會。

So that's one reason why you might see loan balances go up in a post rescheduling world because the fundamental cash flow profile of the industry and of individual operators has improved significantly.

所以，這就是為什麼在重新安排還款計劃之後，貸款餘額可能會上升的原因之一，因為該行業和各個運營商的基本現金流狀況已顯著改善。

But also on the other hand.

但另一方面也是如此。

I would expect there to be a lot more equity interest.

我預計會有更多人對股權感興趣。

In the sector as a result of rescheduling. And so I'd expect to see the denominator, the V in that ratio increase significantly, starting with the starting with public operators and public cannabis valuations. And so the combination of those two is difficult, it's difficult to parse exactly what would be the what would be the change in LTV.

由於重新安排賽程，該行業受到影響。因此，我預計該比率中的分母 V 將大幅增加，首先從上市業者和上市大麻估值開始。因此，將這兩者結合起來很困難，很難準確地分析 LTV 會發生怎樣的變化。

Got it. There's a lot of unknowns out there still, so that's very fair.

知道了。目前仍有許多未知因素，所以這很合理。

Yeah, but I would note that.

是的，但我會記下來。

We we focus in our underwriting on the ability of a cannabis operator to service its indebtedness and to pay back that indebtedness.

我們在承保過程中重點關注大麻業者償還債務的能力。

And that was our focus when cannabis companies were valued in the high 10s.

當大麻公司的估值還在10美元以上時，這就是我們關注的重點。

EBITDA.

EBITDA。

And that's our focus today when cannabis companies are valued in single-digit EV to EBITA.

而這正是我們今天關注的重點，因為大麻公司的估值只有個位數的企業價值與息稅前利潤之比 (EV/EBITA)。

And so it, I think it's an and and so that's why the understanding of the cash flow and diversity of cash flows and the collateral is really fundamental to us and more fundamental to us than an ephemeral, potentially ephemeral market cap, potentially ephemeral license value.

所以，我認為這是一個…，因此，了解現金流、現金流的多樣性以及抵押品對我們來說至關重要，而且比短暫的、可能短暫的市值、可能短暫的許可證價值更重要。

Got it. It's all very helpful and I guess, just one clarifying one real quick if I could, did I hear you guys correctly say that 86% of the portfolio has active floors in place as we sit today?

知道了。這些資訊都很有幫助。我想再澄清一個問題，如果我沒聽錯的話，你們說目前 86% 的投資組合都設有活躍的保底機制？

That's a combination of floors and fixed rate.

這是樓層和固定利率結合的方式。

Got it. Alright, that was all the questions I had. Thanks very much.

知道了。好了，我的問題都問完了。非常感謝。

Thank you, Chris.

謝謝你，克里斯。

And the next question comes from Pablo Zuanic with Zuanic & associates. Please proceed.

下一個問題來自 Zuanic & associates 的 Pablo Zuanic。請繼續。

Thank you and good morning, everyone. Peter, I realize that every company is different, but for example, IIPR this morning announced an investment outside cannabis, AFC Gamma, transforming into a BDC, investing outside cannabis. Chicago Atlantic BDC also is investing outside cannabis. Is that something that Chicago Atlantic Real Estate Finance would also consider given the environment in cannabis?

謝謝大家，大家早安。Peter，我知道每家公司都不一樣，但例如，IIPR今天早上宣布了一項大麻以外的投資，AFC Gamma正在轉型為一家BDC，投資於大麻以外的領域。芝加哥大西洋商業發展公司也在大麻產業以外進行投資。鑑於大麻產業的現狀，芝加哥大西洋房地產金融公司是否也會考慮這樣做？

We have on occasion Invested outside of cannabis, but we find that the risk reward profile for real estate backed loans in the cannabis space is simply much more attractive than the risk reward in most cases than the risk reward profile of real estate backed loans in in non-cannabis real estate opportunities, and that's what's driving. That's what's driving our focus and the and the overwhelming allocation of the portfolio to cannabis opportunities in refi.

我們偶爾也會投資大麻以外的領域，但我們發現，在大多數情況下，大麻領域的房地產抵押貸款的風險回報比非大麻房地產機會的風險回報更具吸引力，這就是推動我們投資的原因。這就是我們關注的重點，也是我們將投資組合的大部分資源分配給再融資領域的大麻投資機會的原因。

But to the extent that changes, to the extent that we find attractive, real estate packed opportunities, we will certainly offer them to refi and may deploy them in refi.

但如果情況發生變化，如果我們發現有吸引力的、房地產密集型的機會，我們肯定會提供這些機會進行再融資，並且可能會將它們用於再融資。

But Chicago Atlantic was founded.

但芝加哥大西洋公司成立了。

Was founded with a focus on idiosyncratic and niche areas of the private credit market, and with a focus on cannabis.

公司成立之初便專注於私人信貸市場的特殊和細分領域，尤其專注於大麻領域。

And that's part of our DNA and that focus on cannabis and our fidelity to the sector is not going to change.

這是我們基因的一部分，我們對大麻的關注和對該行業的忠誠不會改變。

And it, and it's one of the reasons why we've, why we've persisted in this industry and continued to deploy in this industry as the equity markets have experienced significant volatility as other lenders have exited the space. We think that focus and specialization can drive outsized returns and really differentiated returns for our investors, and that we can provide a better product, better support, better relationship.

這也是為什麼我們堅持在這個行業，並在股票市場經歷劇烈波動、其他貸款機構紛紛退出該領域的情況下，繼續在這個行業進行投資的原因之一。我們認為，專注和專業化可以為我們的投資者帶來超額回報和真正差異化的回報，我們可以提供更好的產品、更好的支持和更好的關係。

With our clients, with our borrowers.

與我們的客戶，與我們的借款人。

And we find that that that consistent presence in the market, that consistent support to our borrowers leads to better relationships, leads to more longevity of relationships, and leads to a greater ability for us to build a relationship with the next top operator that emerges from the ecosystem.

我們發現，在市場上持續存在，對借款人持續提供支持，能夠建立更好的關係，延長關係的持續時間，並使我們能夠更好地與生態系統中湧現的下一個頂級運營商建立關係。

Right, that's good.

好的，那就好。

Thank you. Just moving on in terms of 280E, you explained in the prior question that your main focus is on a company's ability to service debt, right? So how do you think about the uncertain tax provision that most MSOs have, right? The majority of them, well, most MSOs, not the majority, like pretty much all of them except one, are paying their taxes, declaring taxes as a normal corporation. And assuming to AD does not apply and based on lawyers and auditors' recommendations, they are an advised, they are putting an item that's called uncertain uncertain tax provisions or benefits as a long-term liability, right? Which we will see if it's ever due and it doesn't have a maturity date. But how do you factor that in your ability to service debt?

謝謝。接下來，關於 280E，您在前一個問題中解釋說，您的主要關注點是公司償還債務的能力，對嗎？那麼，您如何看待大多數MSO（多系統運營商）面臨的不確定稅務條款？大多數（或大多數MSO，不是大多數，而是幾乎所有MSO，除了一個例外）都在繳稅，像普通公司一樣申報納稅。假設 AD 不適用，根據律師和審計師的建議，他們建議將一項稱為不確定稅收準備金或收益的項目作為長期負債，對嗎？我們會看看它是否會到期，但它沒有到期日。但你要如何將這一點納入你的償債能力考量呢？

We consider it as another form of leverage.

我們將其視為另一種形式的槓桿。

And so, we aim to create covenants that limit the ability of our borrowers to incur uncertain tax liabilities above a certain amount, and that amount is set by our comfort of the total leverage profile of the company.

因此，我們的目標是製定契約，限制借款人承擔超過一定金額的不確定稅務責任的能力，而該金額由我們對公司整體槓桿狀況的信心決定。

Okay, that's good, thank you. Look, I know we normally do not talk about specific borrowers, but you mentioned Verano, in your, prepared remarks.

好的，謝謝。我知道我們通常不談論具體的借款人，但你在事先準備好的演講稿中提到了 Verano。

I'm trying to understand here the dynamics. In the case of Verano, Chicago Atlantic, I believe as a group, not just refi, has about a $300 million dollar facility, $292 million book in Verano due next year, right?

我正在努力理解其中的動態。就 Verano 專案而言，我相信芝加哥大西洋公司作為一個整體（不僅僅是再融資）擁有約 3 億美元的融資額度，Verano 專案明年到期的帳簿中有 2.92 億美元，對嗎？

And now you have issued these revolvers for $75 million and $0.03 year revolver. I'm trying to understand the dynamics in terms of why not just restructure the whole thing and, just have to restructure the $300 million loan that was due next year. But given that we don't know what's happening reform, you might have just, I'm just trying to understand why not that as opposing to, issuing a 3-year short-term revolver here.

現在你們已經發行了這些價值 7500 萬美元和每年 0.03 美元的左輪手槍。我正在努力理解其中的動態，為什麼不乾脆重組整個項目，只需要重組明年到期的 3 億美元貸款。但鑑於我們不知道改革的進展情況，你可能只是，我只是想弄清楚為什麼不這樣做，而是在這裡發行3年短期循環信貸。

We have incredible respect for the team at Revolver at Verano, and what the team at Verano has accomplished, what they're executing on today, and their growth prospects. And we think their footprint, their asset base, and their mindset when approaching the industry, is something that we, that.

我們對 Revolver at Verano 團隊、Verano 團隊所取得的成就、他們目前正在執行的工作以及他們的發展前景都抱有極大的敬意。我們認為，他們的規模、資產基礎以及他們對待產業的思維方式，都是我們所重視的。

That we that we think is really unique within the space, and we really value the partnership.

我們認為這在業界是獨一無二的，我們非常重視這種合作關係。

And so to the extent that we can support them in any way, we're going to be ready and willing and we'll do our best to to further their next growth initiatives and that applies for that applies for the rest of our portfolio as well. And, so I can't, I don't want to speak for what, the team's aims are and how they wish to structure their balance sheet, except to say that, we value their relationship, we value their partnership, and we'd love to support them in any way we can.

因此，只要我們能夠以任何方式支持他們，我們都會做好準備，並且願意盡最大努力推進他們的下一個成長計劃，這同樣適用於我們投資組合中的其他公司。所以，我不能，也不想代表球隊發言，談論他們的目標以及他們希望如何建立資產負債表，我只想說，我們重視與他們的關係，我們重視他們的合作，我們非常樂意以任何方式支持他們。

And and and And I'm really excited for For what they're executing on within their portfolio.

而且，而且，而且我真的非常興奮，因為他們正在執行其投資組合中的項目。

Okay, and one last one, if I may, I know that we discussed, the competition from other sectors before. I was recently at the Blank Rome conference. Bank need them there, they said that they had issued about $500 million in loans to the cannabis sector, including CoreLI most recently. They said it would never go to $2 billion but they implied that they could, double the current amount. So my read is that the competition from the regional banks and the current regulatory.

好的，如果可以的話，最後一個問題，我知道我們之前討論過來自其他行業的競爭。我最近參加了Blank Rome會議。銀行表示，他們需要這些資金，他們已經向大麻產業發放了約 5 億美元的貸款，最近一次是向 CoreLI 發放貸款。他們說金額永遠不會達到 20 億美元，但他們暗示說，金額有可能翻倍。所以我的理解是，來自區域性銀行的競爭和目前的監管環境是主要原因。

Status quo is increasing whether it's Valley Bank, Needham, or other people. Am I wrong about that, Peter?

無論是 Valley Bank、Needham 或其他人，現狀都在不斷改善。彼得，我理解錯了嗎？

I think those those banks that have those banks that have developed an expertise that have invested in the infrastructure and invested in the relationships of the cannabis space. In general, those banks have done well because they've they've they've deployed capital with discipline and conservatism and built relationships with some of the strongest operators in the space. And in many cases, those banks are now opting to go deeper because they've seen, they've experienced success.

我認為那些已經發展出專業知識，並投資於大麻領域基礎建設和人脈關係的銀行才是最值得投資的。總的來說，這些銀行之所以表現良好，是因為它們以嚴謹和保守的態度部署資本，並與該領域一些最強大的運營商建立了關係。在許多情況下，這些銀行現在選擇更深入地進行投資，因為他們已經看到了成功，體驗到了成功。

And so I think we're, I think we've seen that among some of the largest banks that have consistently deployed capital in the space that they're seeking to do more, and that's great. We view banks as partners in our in our deployment strategy. There are leverage providers in both our public and private funds. And there are co-lenders in many transactions. There are co-lenders in Unitrans transactions in many transactions. And so we think they're an integral part of the lending ecosystem, and they're part of this process of building a mature capital markets for the cannabis industry. And I think To compare, just to compare where the banking industry sits within the broader private credit ecosystem today.

所以我認為我們已經看到，一些在該領域持續投入資本的大型銀行正在尋求加大投入，這很好。我們將銀行視為部署策略中的合作夥伴。我們的公募基金和私募基金中都有槓桿提供者。而且很多交易都有共同貸款人。Unitrans 的許多交易中都有共同貸款人。因此，我們認為它們是貸款生態系統中不可或缺的一部分，也是為大麻產業建立成熟資本市場這一過程的一部分。我認為，為了進行比較，只是為了比較銀行業在當今更廣泛的私人信貸生態系統中所處的地位。

Banks are not outside of the cannabis industry.

銀行也並非置身於大麻產業之外。

Thanks are thanks are operators alongside of the private credit space and the private credit space, and whether that's mortgage rates and or BDCs operate alongside the banking banking ecosystem and they benefit one another significantly and work together as part of this ecosystem. And that's what we hope to see develop in the cannabis industry, and that's what And that's what we're trying to build in Chicago Atlantic through our various partnerships with nearly all of the major banks that are operating in the cannabis space today.

感謝私人信貸領域的營運商，無論是抵押貸款利率還是商業發展公司 (BDC)，它們都與銀行業生態系統並行運作，彼此受益匪淺，並作為該生態系統的一部分共同努力。這就是我們希望在大麻產業看到的發展，也是我們透過與目前在大麻領域運作的幾乎所有主要銀行的各種合作關係，在芝加哥大西洋銀行努力建構的目標。

So long story short, we welcome and and have worked to help banking institutions enter the cannabis space, and we hope more will do so.

簡而言之，我們歡迎並努力幫助銀行機構進入大麻領域，我們希望更多銀行機構也能這樣做。

Look, I'm sorry, I want to add one more question if you don't mind. I apologies if there's someone else on the queue here. Can you give an update in terms of your, lending program to the New York, I think it's your loan is to a regulator, right? It's not. To a fund they are not necessarily to the stores. I think we're up to 251 stores. Obviously the state continues to expand in terms of retail stores, but I haven't seen necessarily that reflected in your loan book or maybe I'm missing something. But if you can provide an update on that, thank you.

不好意思，如果您不介意的話，我想再問一個問題。如果還有其他人在排隊，我深感抱歉。您能否介紹一下您向紐約提供的貸款項目的最新進展？我認為您的貸款是給監管機構的，對嗎？它不是。對基金而言，它們未必與商店相關。我想我們現在應該有251家門了。顯然，該州的零售商店數量持續增長，但我並沒有在您的貸款帳簿中看到這種增長，或許是我遺漏了什麼。如果您能提供最新進展，那就太感謝了。

I'm sorry, Pablo, I lost you at the beginning of your question. Could you, could you.

抱歉，帕布羅，你的問題一開始我就沒聽懂。你能不能，你能不能。

Repeat it? Okay, I'm going to repeat that. I'm talking about New York State. In terms of the number of stores and dispensaries in New York continues to grow. We're I think north of 250 now, and I thought that given the agreement that you have with the regulator there in terms of the funding, the fund there. That as the number of stores increases that you're lending to the program would have increased, but I don't see that reflecting in your loan book or or maybe I'm missing something, and I'm sorry if it's a bad connection.

再說一次？好的，我再重複一次。我指的是紐約州。紐約的商店和藥房數量持續增長。我認為我們現在已經超過 250 了，而且我認為考慮到你們與監管機構就資金方面達成的協議，也就是那個基金。隨著您向該計劃提供的貸款數量增加，貸款額也應該增加，但我沒有在您的貸款賬簿中看到這一點，或者可能是我遺漏了什麼，如果這是網絡連接問題，我深表歉意。

Mm, no, thank you. The New York Social Equity Fund has opted not to draw additional capital from our funds. They've supported and supported the construction of close to 23 stores across the state.

嗯，不，謝謝。紐約社會公平基金已決定不再從我們的基金中提取額外資金。他們已經支持並資助了全州近 23 家門市的建設。

And and if they've taken a pause on on deployments. That being said, we are ready and willing to support them if they decide to continue deployments and continue to to grow the portfolio of stores that that they're supporting.

而且，如果他們已經暫停了部署。也就是說，如果他們決定繼續部署並繼續擴大他們支援的門市組合，我們隨時準備好並願意為他們提供支援。

Got it thank you.

明白了，謝謝。

This concludes our question-and-answer session for today. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Peter Sack for any closing remarks.

今天的問答環節到此結束。現在我謹將會議交還給彼得·薩克，請他作總結發言。

Thank you all for the support and the questions. Glad to follow-up offline with any questions and please reach out at any time.

感謝大家的支持與提問。樂意在線下解答您的任何疑問，請隨時與我聯繫。

Thank you again.

再次感謝。

The conference is now concluded.

會議到此結束。

Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

感謝各位參加今天的報告會。您現在可以斷開連線了。