R C M Technologies Inc (RCMT) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and thank you for joining us. This is Kevin Miller, Chief Financial Officer of RCM Technologies. I am joined today by Brad Vizi, RCM's Executive Chairman. Our presentation and this call will contain forward-looking statements. The information contained in the forward-looking statements is based on our beliefs, estimates, assumptions, and information currently available to us, and these matters may materially change in the future.

早安，感謝您加入我們。我是 RCM Technologies 的財務長 Kevin Miller。今天與我一起參加的是 RCM 的執行主席 Brad Vizi。我們的演示和本次電話會議將包含前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述中包含的資訊是基於我們的信念、估計、假設和目前可用的信息，這些事項將來可能會發生重大變化。

Many of these beliefs, estimates, and assumptions are subject to rapid changes. For more information on our forward-looking statements and the risks, uncertainties, and other factors to which they are subject, please see the periodic reports on forms 10-K, 10-Q, and 8-K that we file with the SEC, as well as our press releases that we issue from time to time. I will now turn the call over to Brad Vizi, Executive Chairman, to provide an overview of RCM's operating performance during the quarter.

許多信念、估計和假設都會迅速改變。有關我們的前瞻性陳述及其所涉及的風險、不確定性和其他因素的更多信息，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-K、10-Q 和 8-K 表格定期報告以及我們不時發布的新聞稿。現在，我將把電話轉給執行主席布拉德·維茲 (Brad Vizi)，讓他概述 RCM 本季的營運表現。

Thanks, Kevin. Good morning, everyone. The fourth quarter demonstrated strong topline momentum as many of our strategic initiatives gained traction. Though our profitability in Q4 was a disappointment, there is a clear delineation of discrete items that materially impacted the quarter and are not indicative of earnings power. Kevin will walk you through the details to help provide a better sense of a more normalized figure that is in line with our expectations for the business.

謝謝，凱文。大家早安。由於我們的許多策略舉措取得進展，第四季度表現出強勁的營收成長動能。儘管我們第四季度的獲利能力令人失望，但有一些單獨項目對本季產生了重大影響，且不顯示獲利能力。Kevin 將帶您了解詳細信息，以幫助您更好地了解更符合我們對業務期望的更規範的數字。

Perhaps most important, the internals of the business are in very good shape. Despite the tragic wildfires in Los Angeles and a number of school closings, we are witnessing a resumption of growth in hours and increasing activity throughout most of the business. Though the economy is migrating through a period of increased macroeconomic uncertainty, we take great care in working to insulate the business from these forces.

或許最重要的是，該企業的內部狀況非常好。儘管洛杉磯發生了悲慘的山火並且許多學校關閉，但我們仍看到大部分行業的營業時間正在恢復增長並且日益增多。儘管經濟正處於宏觀經濟不確定性增加的時期，但我們仍非常謹慎地努力使企業免受這些力量的影響。

In fact, we entered 2025 with considerable optimism due to the continued effort of our devoted employee base to position the business for secular success. I will now provide an update on the progress of each of the business units.

事實上，由於我們忠誠的員工團隊不斷努力為企業取得長期成功，我們滿懷樂觀地邁入2025年。我現在將介紹各業務部門的進度。

RCM Health Care closed 2024 on a high note that includes the resumption of growth in hours as we lap the strategic deemphasis of a slow-paying, long-term care client. Our existing school district partnerships continue to deepen with increasing client penetration and a growing number of providers. Additionally, we head into 2025 with a robust pipeline of new school districts and clients, positioning us for continued expansion.

RCM Health Care 在 2024 年取得了圓滿的收官，其中包括隨著我們逐步擺脫對付款緩慢的長期照護客戶的策略性重視，工作時間恢復成長。隨著客戶滲透率的提高和供應商數量的增加，我們現有的學區合作夥伴關係不斷深化。此外，邁入 2025 年，我們將擁有大量新學區和客戶，為繼續擴張做好準備。

Many of our long-standing contracts, which have matured into well-established business lines are also experiencing good growth. The continued expansion within these accounts reflects both the strength of our relationships and the quality of our services.

我們的許多長期合約已經發展成為完善的業務線，並且正在經歷良好的成長。這些帳戶的持續擴張反映了我們關係的強度和我們服務的品質。

Core to our strategy, with increased value we deliver to each of our strategic accounts comes commensurate share gains and increased defensibility. A key driver of our growth in K-12 has been the surging demand for behavioral health services. Schools across the country are facing an unprecedented mental health crisis among students with an estimated one in five children experiencing a mental health disorder, and the demand for school-based behavioral health services has continued to grow.

我們的策略核心是，隨著我們為每個策略客戶提供的增加的價值，我們也將獲得相應的份額成長和防禦能力的增強。我們在 K-12 領域成長的一個關鍵驅動力是行為健康服務需求的激增。全國各地的學校都面臨前所未有的學生心理健康危機，估計五分之一的學生患有心理健康障礙，對學校行為健康服務的需求持續增長。

School districts increasingly prioritize mental and behavioral health support, leading to a surge in demand for specialized providers, including school psychologists, social workers, paraprofessionals, and behavioral therapists. As a result, our ability to rapidly deploy highly qualified professionals has positioned us as a leader in addressing this critical need.

學區越來越重視心理和行為健康支持，導致對專業服務提供者的需求激增，包括學校心理學家、社會工作者、助理專業人員和行為治療師。因此，我們快速部署高素質專業人員的能力使我們成為解決此關鍵需求的領導者。

We are also excited about the strong performance of our corrections clients. We demonstrated impressive growth in 2024. This sector remains a key area of opportunity, and we anticipate further expansion in the year ahead.

我們也對我們的懲教客戶的強勁表現感到非常興奮。我們在 2024 年實現了令人矚目的成長。該行業仍然是一個關鍵的機會領域，我們預計來年將進一步擴大。

Consistent with the strategy we employ throughout the company, we aim to benefit from the success of our initial accounts and leverage our learnings to tailor solutions that will allow us to further penetrate the market segment.

與我們在整個公司採用的策略一致，我們的目標是從初始客戶的成功中獲益，並利用我們的經驗來客製化解決方案，使我們能夠進一步滲透到細分市場。

As we move into 2025, we remain committed to smart growth, operational excellence, and delivering unparalleled service to our clients. We look forward to capitalizing on the exciting opportunities ahead and building on the strong foundation that we have established. In Q4, financial indicators for our life sciences, data and solutions division continued to show improvement as we delivered continued positive growth of our managed service contract portfolio.

隨著我們邁入 2025 年，我們將繼續致力於智慧成長、卓越營運以及為客戶提供無與倫比的服務。我們期待利用未來令人興奮的機遇，並在已建立的堅實基礎上再接再厲。第四季度，隨著託管服務合約組合持續實現正成長，我們生命科學、數據和解決方案部門的財務指標持續改善。

Q4 revenue projections were in line with our expectations, exceeding GP and NOI targets for the quarter. Fourth quarter managed services growth also reflects further cost savings measures, including offshore delivery and productivity tools.

第四季營收預測符合我們的預期，超過了本季的毛利和淨利潤目標。第四季託管服務的成長也反映了進一步的成本節約措施，包括離岸交付和生產力工具。

In our HCM division, we continue to exceed quarterly quotas by utilizing advanced quality improvement techniques and creation of support utilities. We continued to deliver successfully on our managed solution initiatives and secured three new clients. Furthermore, RCM was awarded a multiyear renewal for three of our managed service engagements, demonstrating client loyalty and consistent quality delivery. Overall, our Q4 performance reflects the efforts the division has invested in securing long-term extended managed services contracts.

在我們的 HCM 部門，我們透過利用先進的品質改進技術和創建支援實用程序，繼續超額完成季度配額。我們繼續成功實施我們的託管解決方案計劃並獲得三個新客戶。此外，RCM 還獲得了我們三項託管服務項目的多年期續約合同，體現了客戶忠誠度和始終如一的優質服務。總體而言，我們第四季度的業績反映了該部門為獲得長期延長託管服務合約所投入的努力。

2025 will see a dramatic shift in our primary markets. Traditional IT services of business analysis and application development will be replaced by deployment of AI and ML tools that support key process automation. We have positioned ourselves to assist our clients to adopt these new paradigms and create opportunities for competitive advantage. Transitioning to E=engineering, starting with energy services. Demonstrating robust annual growth, 2024 was another year of strong performance.

2025 年我們的主要市場將發生巨大轉變。業務分析和應用程式開發的傳統 IT 服務將被支援關鍵流程自動化的 AI 和 ML 工具的部署所取代。我們的定位是幫助我們的客戶採用這些新模式並創造競爭優勢的機會。過渡到 E=engineering，從能源服務開始。2024 年表現出強勁的年度成長，是另一個表現強勁的一年。

Energy Services' customer-oriented mindset was key to promote this growth and to meet the requirements of the power and utility industry. The continuation of professional, high-quality service execution was well-received by major energy utilities in North America, resulting in further negotiations for upcoming large-scale projects. These include the grid modernization of the US and increased demand for data center developments, serving as a rapidly emerging driver of growth for RCM.

能源服務以客戶為中心的理念是促進這一成長和滿足電力和公用事業行業要求的關鍵。持續專業化、高品質的服務執行受到了北美主要能源公司的好評，並為即將到來的大型專案進行了進一步的談判。其中包括美國電網現代化和資料中心發展的需求增加，成為 RCM 快速成長的動力。

Additionally, Energy Services EPC group developed a teaming agreement with a major construction company for executing large upcoming turnkey projects.

此外，能源服務 EPC 集團還與一家大型建築公司簽訂了合作協議，以執行即將實施的大型交鑰匙工程。

RCM Europe continues to demonstrate strong progress. With a third EPC project awarded and several new projects in negotiation, we are looking forward to our German office providing a healthy contribution in 2025. We are particularly pleased with the quality of the talent we have been able to secure in a talent-constrained environment.

RCM Europe 持續展現強勁的進步。隨著第三個 EPC 項目授予和幾個新項目正在談判中，我們期待德國辦事處在 2025 年做出健康貢獻。在人才受限的環境下，我們能夠獲得如此高品質的人才，對此我們感到特別高興。

RCM's reputation as a thought leader and significant contribution to internationally recognized projects is paying dividends. Meticulous care in scaling up our core team of professionals helps ensure solid project execution and lays the foundation for RCM to become a long-term trusted partner for Europe's energy transition as we add a second large utility in Germany to our world-class client list.

RCM 作為思想領袖的聲譽以及對國際公認計畫的重大貢獻正在帶來回報。我們在擴大核心專業團隊方面所付出的細緻努力有助於確保專案穩固執行，並為 RCM 成為歐洲能源轉型的長期值得信賴的合作夥伴奠定了基礎，因為我們在我們世界級的客戶名單中增加了德國第二家大型公用事業公司。

Energy Services continued to contribute with active leadership roles in major technical associations such as IEEE PES and SF6 & Alternatives Coalition hosted by NEMA. The team will participate in the [Cyclical Colloquium 2025] and will be a sponsor and main contributor to the IEEE PES Substation Meeting in New Orleans in May.

能源服務部門繼續在 IEEE PES 和 NEMA 主辦的 SF6 及替代品聯盟等主要技術協會中發揮積極的領導作用。該團隊將參加[Cyclical Colloquium 2025]，並將成為 5 月在新奧爾良舉行的 IEEE PES 變電站會議的贊助商和主要貢獻者。

In process and industrial, the RCM Thermal Kinetics office has successfully designed and launched a new plant expansion program primarily focused on the ethanol industry. The next campaign has already resulted in an equipment order for $3.5 million. The project expands a plant from 85 million gallons per year to 100 million gallons per year.

在製程和工業領域，RCM Thermal Kinetics 辦公室已成功設計並啟動了一個主要針對乙醇產業的新工廠擴建計畫。下一次活動已經帶來了價值 350 萬美元的設備訂單。該工程將把工廠的年產量從8,500萬加侖擴建至1億加侖。

The team has received several quality leads from marketing and client outreach efforts. The office expects two to three additional engineering orders in Q1 and Q2 for next projects. We believe the 12- to 18-month ROI our solution targets for clients will result in additional equipment orders following our front-end engineering efforts.

該團隊已從行銷和客戶拓展工作中獲得了多個優質線索。該辦公室預計第一季和第二季的下一個項目將有兩到三個額外的工程訂單。我們相信，我們為客戶提供的解決方案所設定的 12 至 18 個月的投資回報將會在我們前端工程工作之後帶來更多的設備訂單。

Also of note, Thermal Kinetics has completed an engineering order to develop novel solution chemistry for a customer planned lithium facility in the US. A several-month pilot campaign at the TK Test Center is expected to begin in Q1, utilizing brine extracted from US-based wells.

另外值得注意的是，Thermal Kinetics 已完成一項工程訂單，為美國客戶規劃的鋰工廠開發新型溶液化學。TK 測試中心預計將於第一季開始為期數月的試點活動，利用從美國油井提取的鹽水。

Equipment for this facility is scheduled for purchase in late 2025. This project is a great example of the strength the Thermal Kinetics Test Center brings to the team. We believe the ability to prove the simulated chemistry greatly improved the likelihood of our selection as a process engineering lead for the project.

該設施的設備計劃於 2025 年底購買。該專案很好地體現了熱動力學測試中心為團隊帶來的實力。我們相信，證明模擬化學的能力大大提高了我們被選為此專案製程工程負責人的可能性。

The test center also concluded a challenging evaporation test for a US-based client for an expansion project in Mexico. This is another example of utilizing testing capabilities as a route to market. The $7.5 million equipment order associated with this test is planned for early Q3.

該測試中心也為美國客戶在墨西哥的擴建工程完成了一項頗具挑戰性的蒸發測試。這是利用測試能力作為進入市場途徑的另一個例子。與此測試相關的價值 750 萬美元的設備訂單計劃在第三季初完成。

Thermal Kinetics is continuing efforts to finalize an expanded partnership agreement with a US-based client. TK has been an exclusive vendor utilized for the past seven years to support this customer's proprietary CO2 capture and conversion plants. The team remains focused on continuation of their emergence as a market leader in responsible and sustainable chemical process design.

Thermal Kinetics 正在繼續努力與美國客戶達成擴大合作協議。過去七年來，TK 一直是該客戶專有二氧化碳捕獲和轉化工廠的獨家供應商。該團隊將繼續致力於成為負責任和永續化學製程設計領域的市場領導者。

The aerospace and defense group continued to win business on new programs with existing and new clients in Q4 2024, which allowed us to consistently grow our resource base. Headcount has increased an additional 20% in Q4 2024 over Q3 2024, which was already a significant increase over the first half of 2024.

2024 年第四季度，航空航太和國防集團繼續贏得現有和新客戶的新專案業務，這使我們能夠不斷擴大資源基礎。2024 年第四季的員工人數比 2024 年第三季又增加了 20%，比 2024 年上半年已經有了顯著的成長。

As projected, we have realized a healthy increase in EBITDA for 2024 compared to 2023. And the weekly run rate continued to increase an additional $65,000 in Q4, which amounted to a top line increase of $1.3 million quarter over quarter. As previously mentioned, the RFIs, RFQs, and MSAs that were finalized in 2024 have allowed us to realize an aggressive increase in headcount, revenue and profit, which we expect to continue to increase through 2025.

如預期，與 2023 年相比，我們 2024 年的 EBITDA 實現了健康成長。第四季度，每週營業額繼續增加 65,000 美元，這意味著營業額比上一季增加了 130 萬美元。如前所述，2024 年最終確定的 RFI、RFQ 和 MSA 使我們的員工人數、收入和利潤實現了大幅增長，我們預計到 2025 年這些數字還將繼續增長。

Our vertical of customers and technology innovator customers doing business with the US government and Tier 1s has reinforced our expansion across air, land, sea, space, and cyber. We have also experienced growth throughout new design programs in engineering as well as established long-term supported products in manufacturing with increased aftermarket demand as well.

我們與美國政府和一級企業開展業務的垂直客戶和技術創新者客戶加強了我們在空中、陸地、海上、太空和網路領域的擴張。我們在工程領域的新設計項目以及製造領域的長期支援產品方面也經歷了成長，售後市場的需求也不斷增加。

All anticipated requirements throughout our customer base in Q4 2024 have now been surpassed as we begin 2025 in a much better place than years past. The recruitment team continues to build trusted, valued relationships throughout the client and candidate base, which has allowed this team to exceed all hiring expectations in 2024. We continue to embark on new tools and technologies to maximize the reach and efficiencies of this team.

我們 2025 年的開局比過去幾年好得多，現在我們已超越了 2024 年第四季整個客戶群預期的所有要求。招募團隊繼續在客戶和候選人群體中建立值得信賴、有價值的關係，這使得團隊在 2024 年超越了所有招募預期。我們將繼續採用新的工具和技術來最大限度地提高該團隊的影響力和效率。

One of our newest awards have just begun to gain traction, and we expect these new multiyear contracts to drive and expand our model-based expertise, software systems, logistics, avionics, and aftermarket expertise throughout 2025 to 2026. We expect to continue to grow with all our aerospace and defense clients in 2025 and beyond as we are the cost-effective, flexible and high-quality workforce solution that is needed in this environment. We look forward to solidifying additional clients and program wins in 2025. Now I will return the call to Kevin to discuss the Q4 2024 financial results in more detail.

我們的最新獎項之一剛開始獲得關注，我們預計這些新的多年期合約將在 2025 年至 2026 年期間推動和擴展我們基於模型的專業知識、軟體系統、物流、航空電子設備和售後市場的專業知識。我們希望在 2025 年及以後與我們所有的航空航太和國防客戶一起繼續成長，因為我們是這種環境所需的經濟高效、靈活和高品質的勞動力解決方案。我們期待在 2025 年鞏固更多的客戶並贏得更多的專案勝利。現在我將回電給凱文，更詳細地討論 2024 年第四季的財務表現。

Thank you, Brad. Regarding our consolidated results, consolidated gross profit for fourth quarter of 2024 was $21.6 million, flat as compared to the fourth quarter of 2023. Consolidated gross profit for fiscal 2024 was $79.8 million, compared to $76.7 million for fiscal 2023.

謝謝你，布拉德。關於我們的綜合業績，2024 年第四季的綜合毛利為 2,160 萬美元，與 2023 年第四季持平。2024 財年綜合毛利為 7,980 萬美元，而 2023 財年為 7,670 萬美元。

Adjusted EBITDA for the fourth quarter was $6.3 million, as compared to $8.9 million for the fourth quarter of 2023. Adjusted EBITDA for fiscal 2024 was $25.9 million, compared to $26.6 million for fiscal 2023. Adjusted EPS was $2.03 for fiscal 2024, as compared to $2.04 for fiscal 2023.

第四季調整後 EBITDA 為 630 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季為 890 萬美元。2024 財政年度的調整後 EBITDA 為 2,590 萬美元，而 2023 財年的調整後 EBITDA 為 2,660 萬美元。2024 財年的調整後每股收益為 2.03 美元，而 2023 財年的調整後每股收益為 2.04 美元。

During Q4 '24, we had several material expenses move in the wrong direction. In our engineering group, a significant industrial process equipment order was abruptly canceled midway through the project. Also, our technical publications group experienced significant rework on a large project with one of our aerospace clients.

在24年第四季度，我們的一些重要支出出現了錯誤的方向。在我們的工程集團，一個重要的工業製程設備訂單在專案進行到一半時突然被取消。此外，我們的技術出版物小組還與一位航空航太客戶合作，對一個大型專案進行了大規模的返工。

These two items caused an approximate $900,000 reduction in gross profit in Q4. Additionally, our self-insured medical plan had abnormally high medical costs that increased SG&A expenses by about $1.25 million from what we would normally expect. We settled a class action lawsuit regarding California wages in 2023, but the judge denied the initial settlement in 2024 and sent it back to the attorneys. We had to go back to mediation. We now have an approved settlement agreement, but it added about $450,000 in SG&A expenses between the increased settlement costs and the additional legal fees.

這兩項導致第四季毛利潤減少約90萬美元。此外，我們的自保醫療計劃的醫療費用異常高，導致銷售、一般和行政費用比我們正常預期的增加了約 125 萬美元。我們在 2023 年就加州工資問題達成了集體訴訟和解，但法官於 2024 年駁回了最初的和解，並將其退還給律師。我們不得不重新進行調解。我們現在已經擁有一份獲批准的和解協議，但是增加的和解成本和額外的法律費用增加了約 45 萬美元的銷售、一般和行政費用。

As for segment performance in the fourth quarter of 2024, in Engineering, gross profit for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $5.2 million, compared to $6.1 million for the fourth quarter of 2023. Gross profit for fiscal 2024 was $22.5 million, compared to $20.6 million for fiscal 2023.

至於 2024 年第四季的分部業績，在工程方面，2024 年第四季的毛利為 520 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季的毛利為 610 萬美元。2024 財年的毛利為 2,250 萬美元，而 2023 財年的毛利為 2,060 萬美元。

Gross margin for the fourth quarter of 2024 was 19.7%, compared to 27.0% for the fourth quarter of 2023. Gross margin for fiscal 2024 was 23.4%, compared to 24.3% for fiscal 2023. Gross margin in the fourth quarter of 2024 was very low, primarily due to the two expenses mentioned earlier, but also because we had a high mix shift of lower-margin work in Q4.

2024 年第四季的毛利率為 19.7%，而 2023 年第四季的毛利率為 27.0%。2024 財年的毛利率為 23.4%，而 2023 財年的毛利率為 24.3%。2024 年第四季的毛利率非常低，主要是因為前面提到的兩項費用，也是因為我們在第四季低利潤率工作的混合轉移率很高。

Our engineering gross margins can be very volatile, but we generally expect them to land between 24.0% and 28.0%. In IT, life sciences and data solutions, gross profit for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $3.9 million, compared to $4.5 million for the fourth quarter of 2023. Gross profit for fiscal 2024 was $14.7 million, compared to $16.2 million for fiscal 2023.

我們的工程毛利率可能非常不穩定，但我們通常預期它會在 24.0% 到 28.0% 之間。在 IT、生命科學和數據解決方案方面，2024 年第四季的毛利為 390 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季的毛利為 450 萬美元。2024 財年的毛利為 1,470 萬美元，而 2023 財年的毛利為 1,620 萬美元。

Gross margin for the fourth quarter of 2024 was 40.0%, compared to 38.7% for the fourth quarter of 2023. Gross margin for fiscal 2024 was 37.5%, as compared to 38.2% for fiscal 2023.

2024 年第四季的毛利率為 40.0%，而 2023 年第四季為 38.7%。2024 財年的毛利率為 37.5%，而 2023 財年的毛利率為 38.2%。

We generally expect IT, life sciences and data solutions gross margins between 36% and 40%. In health care, gross profit for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $12.5 million, compared to $11.0 million for the fourth quarter of 2023. Gross profit for fiscal 2024 was $42.5 million, compared to $39.9 million for fiscal 2023.

我們普遍預期 IT、生命科學和數據解決方案的毛利率在 36% 至 40% 之間。在醫療保健領域，2024 年第四季的毛利為 1,250 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季的毛利為 1,100 萬美元。2024 財年的毛利為 4,250 萬美元，而 2023 財年的毛利為 3,990 萬美元。

Gross margin for the fourth quarter of 2024 was 30.0%, compared to 29.8% for the fourth quarter of 2023. Gross margin for fiscal 2024 was 29.8%, as compared to 29.3% for fiscal 2023.

2024 年第四季的毛利率為 30.0%，而 2023 年第四季的毛利率為 29.8%。2024 財年的毛利率為 29.8%，而 2023 財年的毛利率為 29.3%。

We generally expect health care gross margins to be between 28% and 30%. School revenue for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $34.9 million, compared to $29.8 million for the fourth quarter of 2023. Non-school revenue for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $6.2 million, compared to $6.9 million for the fourth quarter of 2023. However, if we remove a large long-term care group where we deliberately reduced services, revenue would be $5.6 million in 2024 versus $5.5 million in the fourth quarter of 2023.

我們通常預期醫療保健毛利率在28％至30％之間。2024 年第四季的學校收入為 3,490 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季為 2,980 萬美元。2024 年第四季的非學校收入為 620 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季為 690 萬美元。但是，如果我們剔除一個故意減少服務的大型長期照護團體，那麼 2024 年的收入將為 560 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季的收入為 550 萬美元。

Regarding our trade accounts receivables, we made some headway this quarter going from 114 DSOs for the third quarter of 2023 to 92 DSOs for the fourth quarter of 2024. We had two balances at the end of fiscal 2024, both of which were cleaned up in the first quarter of fiscal 2025.

關於我們的貿易應收帳款，本季我們取得了一些進展，從 2023 年第三季的 114 個 DSO 增加到 2024 年第四季的 92 個 DSO。我們在 2024 財年末有兩筆餘額，兩者皆在 2025 財年第一季清理完畢。

First, a large school client stopped payment early in the fourth quarter due to administrative issues unrelated to the company. The company estimates that this school client's December 28, 2024, accounts receivable balance exceeded normalized levels by about $6 million.

首先，一家大型學校客戶因與公司無關的行政問題在第四季度提前停止付款。該公司估計，該學校客戶 2024 年 12 月 28 日的應收帳款餘額超過正常水準約 600 萬美元。

An IT, life sciences, data and solutions client stopped making payments while we negotiated change orders and a two-year contract extension. The company estimates that the client's 28 -- December 28, 2024, accounts receivable balance exceeded normalized levels by approximately $3.8 million.

當我們協商變更單和兩年合約延期時，一家 IT、生命科學、數據和解決方案客戶停止付款。該公司估計，客戶的 2028 年至 2024 年 12 月 28 日的應收帳款餘額超過正常水準約 380 萬美元。

Our goal for DSOs is to get to under 80 by the end of fiscal 2025. Our goal for all quarters in fiscal 2025 is at least double-digit growth on adjusted EBITDA, and we are very optimistic about 2025. We'll give more guidance as the year progresses, and we'll have another call in May, which is not too far away. This concludes our prepared remarks. At this time, we will open the call for questions.

我們的目標是到 2025 財年末，DSO 數量降至 80 以下。我們 2025 財年所有季度的目標是調整後 EBITDA 至少達到兩位數成長，我們對 2025 年非常樂觀。隨著時間的推移，我們將提供更多指導，並且我們將在不久的將來的五月再次召開電話會議。我們的準備好的演講到此結束。現在，我們將開始接受提問。

(Operator Instructions) William Duberstein.

（操作員指令）William Duberstein。

Thanks for all that detail on the extra costs. You went through a bunch of line items, and I might have missed this. But it looks like your -- was any of that realized in the tax rate? Because it looks like the tax rate was over 50% this quarter. And I'm not sure if --

感謝您提供有關額外費用的詳細資訊。您瀏覽了一系列項目，而我可能錯過了這一點。但看起來你的——這些在稅率中實現了嗎？因為看起來本季的稅率超過了 50%。我不確定--

Yeah. So Bill, the tax rate, obviously, in the fourth quarter is a function of the tax rate for the year, right? So you really can't look at the tax rate in the quarter. You need to look at the effective tax rate for the company overall. And the effective tax rate is 34.0%.

是的。所以比爾，顯然第四季的稅率是全年稅率的函數，對嗎？所以你實際上不能只看該季度的稅率。您需要查看整個公司的有效稅率。有效稅率為34.0%。

When we file the 10-K later, you'll see a rate reconciliation. Certainly, if you have any questions on it, feel free to give me a call. But I'll just say that the 34.0% effective tax rate is very, very high for us and very abnormal. And what is driving a big chunk of that is permanent differences having to do with truing up deferred tax liabilities, right? So it doesn't impact your cash taxes, but it impacts your GAAP taxes.

當我們稍後提交 10-K 時，您將看到費率調整。當然，如果您有任何疑問，請隨時打電話給我。但我只想說，34.0%的實際稅率對我們來說非常非常高，而且非常不正常。其中很大一部分原因是與調整遞延稅務負債有關的永久性差異，對嗎？因此，它不會影響您的現金稅，但會影響您的 GAAP 稅。

So about 5% of that is stuff that we don't normally see. So the upshot of it is, absent anything I'm not aware of, we should not see a tax rate anywhere near 34% next year, effective tax rate. It should be well below 30%.

其中大約 5% 是我們通常看不到的東西。因此，結果是，除非發生我不知道的情況，否則明年的稅率不應該接近 34%，也就是有效稅率。它應該遠低於 30%。

Do you have a range of what a so-called normal tax rate might (multiple speakers)

你們有沒有所謂的正常稅率範圍？（多位發言者）

Sure. I would say normal, a range would be 26% to 29%, and probably the midpoint of that is probably a pretty good guess. The more we make -- the more pretax we make, obviously, that rate is going to come down some because your permanent differences have a lower impact on your rate.

當然。我認為正常的範圍是 26% 到 29%，這個中間值可能是一個非常好的猜測。我們賺得越多——我們賺的稅前錢越多，顯然，這個稅率就會下降一些，因為你的永久性差異對你的稅率的影響較小。

But in a normal year, we don't typically have big, big permanent differences. So if you ignore permanent differences altogether, our rates around 26.5%. But if we were above 27.5% next year, it would surprise me on an effective tax rate basis.

但在正常年份，我們通常不會有巨大的永久性差異。因此，如果完全忽略永久性差異，我們的比率約為 26.5%。但如果明年我們的稅率超過 27.5%，那麼從有效稅率來看我會感到驚訝。

Great. And for the specific cost on engineering, I think you called out an order being --

偉大的。至於工程的具體成本，我認為你下達的命令是--

$900,000.

90萬美元。

The $900,000.

90萬美元。

Total for the two items that occurred. And that's an increase to direct costs, essentially. It's a combination of increased direct cost and essentially lost revenue that we expected to get in the fourth quarter. So you wind up with a little bit lower revenue and higher costs, and the end-result is about $900,000 in lower gross profit than we would have had absent those two items.

發生的兩件事的總數。從本質上來說，這會增加直接成本。這是直接成本增加和我們預計第四季度收入損失的綜合結果。因此，最終的收入會略低一些，成本會更高，最終的結果是，毛利比沒有這兩項時低了約 90 萬美元。

All right. Was one item resulting in lower revenue and one item increased cost resulted --

好的。一項導致收入減少，另一項導致成本增加--

No, they're both resulting in lower revenue. Obviously, the canceled order reduced revenue. And then when we have people doing rework, they're essentially working with hours that would normally be billable and would normally generate revenue, and they're not generating any revenue because we're doing work for free essentially, right?

不，它們都會導致收入降低。顯然，取消訂單導致收入減少。然後，當我們讓人們返工時，他們實際上是在工作本來可以計費並產生收入的時間，但他們並沒有產生任何收入，因為我們基本上是免費工作的，對嗎？

So in that case, it's -- you're losing revenue on people that normally would be generating revenue. So it's both, right? You have higher -- you just -- then you wind up with a real crush to your gross profit dollars and your gross margin.

所以在這種情況下，你就會失去那些通常會為你帶來收入的人的收入。所以兩者都有，對嗎？你有更高的——你只是——然後你最終會對你的毛利和你的毛利率產生真正的擠壓。

And the client doesn't recompense you for the work done before the project was canceled?

客戶沒有補償你在專案取消之前所做的工作嗎？

Well, yes, but we certainly cut it off. But the way the contract works, we still lose significant revenue by canceling the order midstream. So had we completed it, we would have delivered equipment that we -- and we would have made a lot more money on it than having a canceled order.

嗯，是的，但是我們確實會把它切斷。但依照合約的規定，如果中途取消訂單，我們仍然會損失大量收入。所以，如果我們完成了它，我們就會交付設備——而且我們會比取消訂單賺更多的錢。

Right. And I don't know if you can go into these details, but did that canceled order have anything to do with sort of the change in administration? Obviously, the election happened during November. I was just wondering if either that would result for the change --

正確的。我不知道您是否可以詳細說明，但取消的命令是否與政府變動有關？顯然，選舉是在十一月舉行的。我只是想知道這是否會導致改變--

No, there's no political factors there. It's just a nuance with a particular client.

不，那裡沒有政治因素。這只是與特定客戶之間的一種細微差別。

Okay. And I guess that led me to wonder if there's any sort of effect you're seeing from maybe like DOGE or any sort of the headlines that are out there, considering some of your clients are government contractors or may receive money from some government agencies?

好的。我想這讓我想知道，考慮到您的一些客戶是政府承包商或可能從一些政府機構獲得資金，您是否從 DOGE 或任何現有的頭條新聞中看到了什麼影響？

No direct nothing direct. I mean I think DOGE can potentially have some impact on the IT environment in general, not talking about RCM. I mean we don't do -- most of our work for government is working as a subcontractor, and most of that work is in the aerospace industry.

沒有直接，沒有直接。我的意思是，我認為 DOGE 可能會對整個 IT 環境產生一些影響，更不用說 RCM 了。我的意思是我們不做——我們為政府做的大部分工作都是作為分包商，而且大部分工作是在航空航天工業中。

And we don't -- as of today, we don't expect any major impact. Certainly, if a lot of IT workers are getting laid off because of DOGE, that can impact the IT environment in general. But like we don't see any direct link as of today to any major impact on RCM. I'm sure Brad probably could expand on this, but that's what we're seeing today.

截至今天，我們預計不會有任何重大影響。當然，如果很多 IT 工作者因為 DOGE 而被解僱，那麼這可能會對整個 IT 環境產生影響。但截至今天，我們還沒有看到任何對 RCM 產生重大影響的直接關聯。我相信布拉德可能會對此進行詳細說明，但這就是我們今天所看到的。

Yeah. No. Real quickly, I'd just echo Kevin's sentiments. The other thing I see playing out, right, we seem to generally be insulated from, when you start to think about the services business, and particularly ours, so the times where you do have blips and material reductions in workforce, inevitably, they overshoot, right? And so the first one has actually come back onto the contractors like us.

是的。不。很快，我就贊同凱文的觀點。我看到的另一件事是，當你開始考慮服務業，特別是我們的服務業時，我們似乎總體上不受任何影響，因此，當你出現勞動力暫時短缺和大幅減少的時候，不可避免地，它們會超出預期，對吧？所以第一個責任其實又落到了像我們這樣的承包商身上。

So as I see all this playing out just like you do, and we're, again, managing the business every single day to continue to move the ball on the field, and we're not really seeing an impact. The more I see this play out, the more I think to myself, at some point, these reductions in workforce, when are we going to be on the right end of overshooting, right?

因此，當我像您一樣看到這一切發生時，我們再次管理每天的業務，繼續在球場上移動球，但我們並沒有真正看到影響。我越是看到這種情況，就越是自問，在某個時候，這些勞動力的減少，我們什麼時候才能到達過度調整的正確終點，對嗎？

So in other words, like these government reductions, you're bringing people back, right? Those people that you just let go, oftentimes, they're dispersed into the broader economy, and they find different jobs, and you have a gap fill pretty quickly.

換句話說，就像政府減稅一樣，你們會讓人們回來，對嗎？你剛剛解僱的人，往往會分散到更廣泛的經濟領域，找到不同的工作，你很快就會填補空缺。

So it's too early and there's too much uncertainty with respect to me to pound the table either way. But it hasn't been an impact today. And we're optimistic that, at some point, it may actually be a tailwind.

因此，現在還為時過早，而且對我來說還有太多不確定性，因此無法做出任何決定。但今天還沒有造成影響。我們樂觀地認為，在某種程度上，它可能實際上會變成一股順風。

Okay. That's encouraging. And my final thing, it looks like looks like absent those onetime charges, you guys would have grown operating income a little over 12%. So that's obviously much better. And did you say you were looking towards double-digit bottom-line growth every quarter or for the full year? I'm just wondering if --

好的。這令人鼓舞。我的最後一件事是，看起來，如果沒有這些一次性費用，你們的營業收入將增加 12% 多一點。這顯然要好得多。您是否說過您期望每季或全年的利潤都能達到兩位數的成長？我只是想知道--

Well, at least -- yes, at least that for the full year, right, because we had a disappointing fourth quarter. But we strive to grow our adjusted EBITDA quarter over quarter every quarter in the low double digits. That's our goal, okay, is to grow at least in the low double digits. And we don't see any reason why we can't accomplish that in 2025.

嗯，至少——是的，至少全年是這樣，因為我們的第四季表現令人失望。但我們力爭使調整後的 EBITDA 每季都較上季成長 10% 左右。這就是我們的目標，至少要達成兩位數的成長。我們認為沒有理由無法在 2025 年實現這一目標。

I mean Q4 2025 is sort of a long ways away. I don't think we're going to see sort of the hockey stick in numbers that we saw in 2023, which we thought we might see in 2024, that we didn't see. But we're -- our expectation as a company is to grow adjusted EBITDA low double digits every quarter. And if we don't, then it's a failed quarter, frankly.

我的意思是 2025 年第四季還很遙遠。我認為我們不會看到像 2023 年那樣的曲棍球棒式增長，我們原以為 2024 年可能會看到這種增長，但我們沒有看到。但是，我們作為一家公司，我們期望調整後的 EBITDA 每個季度都實現低兩位數的成長。如果我們不這樣做，那麼坦白說，這是一個失敗的季度。

And that's how we ring it up on the scorecard. If we don't hit those numbers, then it's a failed quarter. So as we look out at 2025, we're optimistic. And we don't see any reason why we can't hit our goals. So I'll just, I'll leave it at that.

這就是我們在記分卡上記分的方式。如果我們達不到這些數字，那麼這個季度就是失敗的。因此，展望2025年，我們感到樂觀。我們不看有任何無法實現我們目標的理由。所以我就，就到此為止了。

Great. Very encouraging.

偉大的。非常令人鼓舞。

(Operator Instructions) We're seeing no further questions in queue. (Operator Instructions) Still no questions in queue.

（操作員指示）我們看到隊列中沒有其他問題。（操作員指示）隊列中仍然沒有問題。

Okay. Thank you, everyone, for attending our yearend call. And we look forward to our next update in May.

好的。感謝大家參加我們的年終電話會議。我們期待 5 月的下一次更新。

All right. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude your call. You may now disconnect your lines.

好的。女士們、先生們，你們的通話到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路了。