Ready Capital Corp (RC) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Realty Capital Fourth Quarter 2023 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

您好，歡迎參加 Realty Capital 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）

As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host Andrew Ahlborn. Thank you. You may begin.

提醒一下，本次會議正在錄製中。現在我很高興向您介紹主持人安德魯·阿爾伯恩。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Thank you, operator, and good morning to those of you on the call. Some of our comments today will be forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. Such statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results could differ materially from what we expect and therefore, you should exercise caution in interpreting and relying on them. We refer you to our SEC filings for a more detailed discussion of the risks that could impact our future operating results and financial condition.

謝謝您，接線生，祝各位通話者早安。我們今天的一些評論將屬於聯邦證券法含義內的前瞻性陳述。此類陳述存在眾多風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與我們的預期有重大差異，因此，您在解釋和依賴這些陳述時應謹慎行事。我們建議您參閱我們向 SEC 提交的文件，以更詳細地討論可能影響我們未來經營業績和財務狀況的風險。

During the call, we will discuss our non-GAAP measures, which we believe can be useful in evaluating the company's operating performance. These measures should not be considered in isolation or as a substitute for our financial results prepared in accordance with GAAP. And a reconciliation of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measure is available in our fourth-quarter 2023 earnings release and our supplemental information, which can be found in the Investors section of the Ready Capital website.

在電話會議期間，我們將討論我們的非公認會計準則衡量標準，我們相信這些衡量標準有助於評估公司的營運績效。這些措施不應被孤立地考慮，也不應取代我們根據公認會計準則編制的財務表現。我們的 2023 年第四季財報發布和補充資訊中提供了這些指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的對賬，這些資訊可以在 Ready Capital 網站的投資者部分找到。

In addition to Tom and myself on today's call, we are also joined by Adam, we are ready Capital's Chief Credit Officer. I will now turn it over to Chief Executive Officer, Tom capacity.

除了 Tom 和我自己參加今天的電話會議外，我們還邀請了 Adam，他是 Capital 的首席信貸官。我現在將其移交給首席執行官湯姆·容量。

Thanks, Andrew. Good morning and thank you for joining the call today. Despite broader headwinds, Ready Capital into 2024 with a resilient business model and a proven ability to navigate challenging periods.

謝謝，安德魯。早安，感謝您今天加入通話。儘管面臨更廣泛的阻力，Ready Capital 仍憑藉著富有彈性的商業模式和經過驗證的應對挑戰時期的能力進入 2024 年。

As we look to 2024 and beyond. The key drivers that we will focus on to return to more historic level of earnings are less about current market conditions and the resulting credit pressures, but rather about our strategic capital redeployment from recent long-term value accretive M&A. While our prior acquisitions have led to short term earnings impacts over recent quarters, and we are cognizant, it will take time to work through the persisting pressures, we believe executing our plan will generate meaningful long-term accretion.

展望 2024 年及以後。我們將重點關注的恢復歷史性獲利水準的關鍵驅動因素不是當前的市場狀況和由此產生的信貸壓力，而是我們從最近的長期價值增值併購中進行的策略資本重新部署。雖然我們先前的收購對最近幾季的獲利產生了短期影響，而且我們意識到，克服持續的壓力需要時間，但我們相信執行我們的計劃將產生有意義的長期成長。

To begin a quick recap of 2023. Full year distributable return on average stockholders' equity was 8.6%. The shortfall versus our 10% target was primarily due to a 250-basis point drag on ROE from M&A and a 25 basis point drag from the underperformance of our residential mortgage banking business. Our expectation is that the sale of underperforming assets, re-levering equity from M&A and exiting our residential business will begin to provide material net interest margin accretion through reinvestment at the current levered ROEs exceeding 14%.

開始快速回顧 2023 年。全年可分配平均股東權益報酬率為8.6%。與我們 10% 目標相比的差距主要是由於併購對 ROE 造成 250 個基點的拖累，以及我們的住宅抵押銀行業務表現不佳導致 ROE 拖累 25 個基點。我們的預期是，出售表現不佳的資產、透過併購重新槓桿化股權以及退出我們的住宅業務將開始透過在當前槓桿 ROE 超過 14% 的情況下進行再投資來提供實質的淨利差增加。

On the investment side, we remained active in both our lower middle market, CRE and small business lending segments. On the CRE side, despite a year-over-year 68% decline in CRE industry transaction volume, we originated $1.7 billion across all products, primarily comprising $1.3 billion of Freddie small-balance multifamily, affordable products and $333 million of bridge production.

在投資方面，我們在中低端市場、商業房地產和小型企業貸款領域保持活躍。在CRE 方面，儘管CRE 行業交易量年減68%，但我們在所有產品中創造了17 億美元的收入，主要包括13 億美元的Freddie 小餘額多戶住宅、經濟適用產品和3.33 億美元的橋樑生產。

On the small business lending side, we originated $494 million with contributions from both our legacy SBA business focused on large loans in our FinTech business focused on small loans. This dual large small loan strategy uniquely positions our small business lending segment to achieve its target of $1 billion and annual production in the next two to three years with only a 5% equity allocation, but an 18% full year distributable earnings contribution. The Small Business segment remains a material and we believe underappreciated aspect of our earnings profile as we enter the back end of this series market cycle.

在小型企業貸款方面，我們籌集了 4.94 億美元，資金來自我們專注於大額貸款的傳統 SBA 業務和專注於小額貸款的金融科技業務。這種雙重重大貸款策略使我們的小型企業貸款部門處於獨特的地位，能夠在未來兩到三年內實現10 億美元的目標和年產量，只需5% 的股權配置，但全年可分配獲利貢獻為18%。小型企業部門仍然是一個重要的部分，我們相信，當我們進入該系列市場週期的後端時，我們的獲利狀況被低估了。

Our two primary areas of focus are credit and earnings growth on the credit side, while not immune to the CRE macro-environment, we are differentiated from the broader sector in terms of our concentration in lower middle market, multifamily, more conservative vintage underwriting and avoidance of both overbuilt markets and high risk CRE sectors such as office as of December 31, 60 day-plus delinquencies in our originated and acquired CRE portfolios were 7.2% and 22.3% respectively.

我們的兩個主要關注領域是信貸和信貸方面的盈利增長，雖然不能免受商業地產宏觀環境的影響，但我們與更廣泛的行業的區別在於，我們專注於中低端市場、多戶家庭、較保守的老式核保和避免過度建造的市場和辦公大樓等高風險 CRE 產業 截至 12 月 31 日，我們發起和收購的 CRE 投資組合中 60 天以上的拖欠率分別為 7.2% 和 22.3%。

My comments will focus on our originated portfolio, which represents 73% of total loans, the acquired portfolio concentrated in Mosaic, which closed in the first quarter of 2022 and Broadmark, which closed in the third quarter of 2023 featured combined purchase discounts for nonperforming assets of 28%.

我的評論將重點放在我們的原始投資組合，佔貸款總額的73%，收購的投資組合集中在於2022 年第一季結束的Mosaic 和於2023 年第三季結束的Broadmark，其特點是不良資產的聯合購買折扣28%。

We've liquidated 29% of the total acquired portfolio at prices above the combined purchase discounts. The main drivers of our 60 day delinquency are first multi-family, which is 78% of the loan portfolio at quarter end, multifamily 60 day-plus delinquency was 6.6% as certain properties experienced NOI reductions driven by flat rent growth and increases in operating and interest costs.

我們已經以高於合併購買折扣的價格清算了總收購投資組合的 29%。我們60 天拖欠的主要驅動因素首先是多戶住宅，佔季度末貸款組合的78%，多戶住宅60 天以上拖欠的比例為6.6%，因為某些房產在租金持平增長和營業額增加的推動下經歷了NOI 減少。和利息成本。

71% of the new delinquencies in the quarter were attributable to one large sponsor across four loans. As of February 25, 60 day-plus delinquencies have been reduced to 5.5% through payoffs or modifications, which in most cases require an equity infusion from the loan sponsor.

本季新拖欠的 71% 歸因於四筆貸款中的一個大型發起人。截至 2 月 25 日，透過償還或修改，超過 60 天的拖欠率已減少至 5.5%，這在大多數情況下需要貸款發起人注資。

Second is office, which is only 5% of the CRE portfolio, but accounts for 21% of total delinquencies. Eight loans are delinquent with an average balance of $15 million and notably only to have a balance greater than $20 million. The largest loan is $44 million. Our office portfolio is granular across 165 assets with an average balance of $3 million, but 70% of the delinquencies are collateralized by larger CBD properties located in Chicago, Denver and New York.

其次是辦公室，僅佔 CRE 投資組合的 5%，但佔拖欠總額的 21%。有 8 筆貸款拖欠，平均餘額為 1,500 萬美元，尤其是餘額超過 2,000 萬美元。最大一筆貸款為 4400 萬美元。我們的辦公室投資組合涵蓋 165 項資產，平均餘額為 300 萬美元，但 70% 的拖欠是由位於芝加哥、丹佛和紐約的大型 CBD 物業作為抵押。

Looking forward in the current higher for longer rate outlook, we are focused on refinancing our current maturity ladder, of which 45% or $2.8 billion of multifamily loans reached initial maturity in 2024 and 31% and $1.9 billion in the first half of 2025.

展望當前較高、較長的利率前景，我們專注於為當前的期限階梯進行再融資，其中45%（即28 億美元）的多戶貸款將於2024 年首次到期，31%（即19 億美元）將於2025 年上半年達到初始到期。

Historically, our corporate strategy is to underwrite to take up our Freddie SPL license and 25 strategic partnerships, which provide access to all GSE multifamily channels. For example, in 2023, 64% of our bridge loans paid off at maturity, primarily via agency take-up and 12% met the criteria for contractual extension for the 11% of the multifamily portfolio currently rated 4 or 5.

從歷史上看，我們的公司策略是承保我們的 Freddie SPL 授權和 25 個策略合作夥伴關係，這些合作夥伴提供對所有 GSE 多系列管道的存取。例如，到2023 年，我們的過橋貸款中有64% 在到期時償還，主要透過代理商吸收，而12% 的過橋貸款符合目前評級為4 或5 級的多戶型投資組合中11%的合約延期標準。

Our asset management teams are executing modifications and extensions where supported by the business plans. And we are prioritizing on-balance sheet liquidity for related capital solutions, notably with a mark-to-market LTV of less than 100% on this population, we do not expect any material erosion to book value from additional CECL reserves and modifications of 4% of the total originated portfolio remain comparatively low.

我們的資產管理團隊正在業務計劃的支援下進行修改和擴展。我們優先考慮相關資本解決方案的資產負債表內流動性，特別是按市值計算的 LTV 低於 100%，我們預計額外的 CECL 準備金和 4 的修改不會對賬面價值造成任何實質性侵蝕。佔原始投資組合總額的百分比仍相對較低。

Now a few observations on our CRE CLOs like most in our peer group, we have historically used CLO financing is one of our secured financing options. Over the last eight years, we've issued $7 billion with $5 billion outstanding, ranking number four with top quartile triple- AAA spreads, largely a result of one of the most conservative and investor friendly CLO structures.

現在對我們的 CRE CLO 進行一些觀察，就像我們同行中的大多數人一樣，我們歷史上使用的 CLO 融資是我們的擔保融資選擇之一。在過去的八年裡，我們發行了70 億美元，其中50 億美元已發行，排名第四，利差達到前四分位數AAA 級，這主要歸功於最保守和對投資者最友好的CLO結構之一。

Specifically, our over-collateralization test is set at 1% versus the 3% average for the peer group and our deals are static. Unlike managed deals, we eliminated our ability to swap collateral prevented from repurchasing collateral until after 60 day delinquencies reached and reliant upon the special servicer to manage decisions on asset resolution.

具體來說，我們的超額抵押測試設定為 1%，而同業的平均為 3%，我們的交易是靜態的。與託管交易不同，我們取消了交換抵押品的能力，直到拖欠期達到 60 天後才可以回購抵押品，並依賴特殊服務商來管理資產處置決策。

This has three impacts versus the peer group. First is that CRE CLOs, flip chip test sooner for example, our FL. five, nine, 10 and 12 deals have tripped their IC or OC test. Secondly, credit quality metrics will be skewed versus managed deals where the issuer can preemptively swap in performing loans before a loan is delinquent.

與同行相比，這會產生三個影響。首先是CRE CLO，倒裝晶片測試更快，例如我們的FL。 5、9、10 和 12 筆交易通過了 IC 或 OC 測試。其次，與管理交易相比，信用品質指標將有所偏差，在管理交易中，發行人可以在貸款拖欠之前先發制人地更換貸款。

And finally, our path to asset resolution via repurchase. Our modification is longer due to both the 60-day trigger and need to obtain special servicer approval on our asset management decisions. As of the February 25 remittance date, there were 12 loans 60 day-plus delinquent inside of our CLOs. Of those, we expect 15% to pay off,57% qualify for modifications and 27%. Enter foreclosure.

最後，我們透過回購來解決資產問題。由於 60 天的觸發期以及需要獲得特殊服務機構對我們資產管理決策的批准，我們的修改時間較長。截至 2 月 25 日匯款日，我們的 CLO 中有 12 筆貸款拖欠超過 60 天。其中，我們預計 15% 能夠獲得回報，57% 有資格進行修改，27% 符合資格。輸入止贖。

Modifications will require new equity contributions, provide a bridge for properties to stabilize and reach agency take-up. Expected principal losses on these loans have been accounted for in our current CECL reserve. We expect as of the March remittance date that FL. five, nine and 12 will be above their IC and OC thresholds.

修改將需要新的股權出資，為房地產穩定並達到機構吸收提供橋樑。這些貸款的預期本金損失已計入我們目前的 CECL 準備金中。我們預計截至 3 月匯款日期，FL. 5、9 和 12 將高於其 IC 和 OC 閾值。

On the earnings side, once you lay out the bridge for increasing distributable, are we 250-basis points over the next two years from the 7.5% in the fourth quarter to our 10% trailing seven year average. First is reallocation of equity raise in the Broadmark merger into our core strategies.

在收益方面，一旦為增加可分配性做好了準備，我們在未來兩年內是否會從第四季度的 7.5% 上升到過去七年平均水平的 10% 250 個基點。首先是將 Broadmark 合併中籌集的股權重新分配到我們的核心策略中。

Since the third quarter 2023 merger closed, 23% of the portfolio has liquidated, of which the remaining $788 million at quarter end is yielding approximately 2.1%, producing a current drag on our we have 170-basis points.

自 2023 年第三季合併結束以來，23% 的投資組合已清算，其中季度末剩餘的 7.88 億美元收益率約為 2.1%，對我們目前的 170 個基點產生了拖累。

Currently, we have actionable liquidations for 36% of the remaining portfolio with a budget to monetize the balance over the next four quarters. The anticipated contribution margin to are we from full reinvestment of this equity into our current investment pipeline is 250-basis points. Second, leverage current leverage of 3.3 times and recourse leverage of 0.8 times are at historical lows below our target leverage of 4 times to 4.5 times.

目前，我們對剩餘投資組合的 36% 進行了可操作的清算，並製定了預算，以便在未來四個季度將餘額貨幣化。我們將該股權全部再投資到目前投資管道中的預期邊際貢獻為 250 個基點。其次，槓桿率目前3.3倍槓桿率和0.8倍追索槓桿率均處於歷史低點，低於我們4倍至4.5倍的目標槓桿率。

We expect to raise incremental debt capital over the upcoming months for the resulting increase in leverage contributing 125 basis points to ROE through the exit of residential mortgage banking, which based on current planning, is targeted for full liquidation by the end of the second quarter due to current mortgage rates.

我們預計在未來幾個月內籌集增量債務資本，從而提高槓桿率，透過退出住宅抵押貸款銀行業務，為股本回報率貢獻125 個基點，根據目前的計劃，該銀行業務的目標是在第第二季末完全清算。到目前的抵押貸款利率。

Distributable are we in this segment was laggard at 1.8%, and we expect reinvestment of that capital to increase our we 25-basis points for a growth of small business lending the SBA seven a. program continues to be the highest ROE segment where, given its capital-light nature, growth in production does not require significant capital resources. For those stated long-term 70 origination target of doubling our current production to $1 billion. Every $100 million increase in volume adds an incremental 15-basis points to our rate last cost structure as part of the merger, we realize synergies on the OpEx side, cutting $19 million of Broadmark expenses.

我們在這一領域的可分配利率落後於 1.8%，我們預計該資本的再投資將使我們的小型企業貸款增長 25 個基點，SBA 七年。該計劃仍然是淨資產回報率最高的部分，鑑於其資本輕的性質，產量的增長不需要大量的資本資源。70 制定的長期目標是將目前產量翻一番，達到 10 億美元。作為合併的一部分，銷售量每增加 1 億美元，我們的最終成本結構就會增加 15 個基點，我們實現了營運支出的協同效應，削減了 1,900 萬美元的 Broadmark 費用。

Given market conditions, we expect to continue to rightsize the cost structure and staffing levels with a target 40-basis points, ROE contribution probability weighting each of these actions with a total [455] basis points increase in our re alongside focused credit management over the next 12 to 18 months of the CRE cycle, we believe will provide significant upside to the company's current earnings profile. We appreciate the continued support, understand the work ahead of us and firmly believe that the platform is built to both withstand current market pressure and grow earnings as we move forward.

鑑於市場條件，我們預計將繼續調整成本結構和人員配置水平，目標是 40 個基點，ROE 貢獻機率對每一項行動進行加權，在我們的重點信貸管理的同時，總共增加 [455] 個基點。我們認為，在CRE 週期的未來12 至18 個月內，將為公司目前的獲利狀況帶來顯著的上行空間。我們感謝持續的支持，了解我們面前的工作，並堅信該平台的建立既能承受當前的市場壓力，又能在我們前進的過程中增加收益。

With that, I'll turn it over to Andrew.

這樣，我就把它交給安德魯。

Thanks, Tom, and good morning, quarterly GAAP earnings and distributable earnings per share were $0.12 and $0.26, respectively. Distributable earnings and $48.5 million equates to a 7.5% distributable return on average stockholders' equity

謝謝，湯姆，早安，季度 GAAP 收益和每股可分配收益分別為 0.12 美元和 0.26 美元。可分配收益 4,850 萬美元相當於平均股東權益可分配回報率為 7.5%

2023 full year GAAP earnings and distributable earnings per share for $2.25 and $1.18, respectively, equating to an 8.6% distributable return on average stockholders' equity on the balance sheet and income statement, residential mortgage banking has been accounted for as a discontinued operation with assets and liabilities consolidated into held for sale line items and net income included in discontinued operations.

2023 年全年GAAP 收益和每股可分配收益分別為2.25 美元和1.18 美元，相當於資產負債表和損益表中平均股東權益的8.6% 可分配回報率，住宅抵押貸款銀行業務已作為資產終止經營業務進行會計處理負債併入持有待售項目，淨利則納入已終止經營業務。

The main driver of the variance between our quarterly GAAP and distributable earnings were $3.2 million of the $6.7 million increase to our CECL reserve, a $20.7 million markdown of our residential MSRs, a one-time $5.5 million termination fee related to the refinance of a mosaic lending facility and a $3.7 million unrealized loss.

我們季度GAAP 與可分配收益之間差異的主要驅動因素是我們的CECL 儲備金增加670 萬美元中的320 萬美元、我們的住宅MSR 降價2,070 萬美元、與馬賽克再融資相關的一次性550 萬美元終止費用貸款便利和 370 萬美元的未實現損失。

The increase in our CECL reserve was due to a $15.8 million increase in specific reserves, offset by a release of reserves on our performing loan portfolio and a 7.5% distributable return on equity continues to be pressured by the effects of a decline in the retained yield of the portfolio as well as lower leverage in the fourth quarter. De-lever portfolio yield was 11.5%, down 9% from the same period last year. The change is due to a 11% allocation into Broadmark asset margin compression on the backlog and increased REO from M&A. We expect levered yields to increase as the backlog moves into our securitization vehicles and the Broadmark assets are repositioned into market yields.

我們的 CECL 準備金增加是由於特定準備金增加了 1,580 萬美元，但被我們的履約貸款組合準備金的釋放所抵消，並且 7.5% 的可分配股本回報率繼續受到保留收益率下降的影響。組合的變化以及第四季槓桿率的降低。去槓桿組合報酬率為11.5%，較去年同期下降9個百分點。這項變更是由於積壓的 Broadmark 資產利潤率壓縮了 11%，以及併購帶來的 REO 增加。我們預計，隨著積壓訂單進入我們的證券化工具以及 Broadmark 資產重新配置為市場收益率，槓桿收益率將會上升。

Net interest income declined $6.4 million quarter over quarter. The change was primarily due to a $5.5 million one-time charge upon the refinanced Mosaic lending facility, the migration of $258 million of loans to non-accrual and $2.6 million of interest expense related to the financing of nonperforming Broadmark assets. Realized gains were up quarter over quarter due to increased SBA seven a. production and sales with average premiums of 8.9% and $288 million of production in our Freddie Mac businesses.

淨利息收入季減 640 萬美元。這項變更主要是由於再融資的 Mosaic 貸款工具上收取了 550 萬美元的一次性費用，2.58 億美元的貸款轉為非應計貸款，以及與不良 Broadmark 資產融資相關的 260 萬美元的利息費用。由於 SBA 七年增加，實現收益環比上升。我們的 Freddie Mac 業務的生產和銷售平均溢價為 8.9%，產量為 2.88 億美元。

Servicing income increased $1 million quarter-over-quarter due to the recovery of previously booked impairment of our SBA and Freddie Mac servicing assets. Other income increased $14.2 million due to the recognition of ERC income. To date, we have processed $62.9 million of ERC contracts, recognizing net income of $42.8 million. We expect this program to continue into 2024, albeit at a slower pace. The improvement in operating expenses was due to a reduction in staffing and related compensation expense, slightly lower servicing expenses as a result of lower advance reimbursements and lower transaction volume on the balance sheet liquidity to remain healthy with $139 million in total cash and over $1.5 billion in unencumbered assets.

由於先前提列的 SBA 和 Freddie Mac 服務資產減值得到恢復，服務收入較上季增加了 100 萬美元。由於 ERC 收入的確認，其他收入增加了 1,420 萬美元。迄今為止，我們已處理了 6,290 萬美元的 ERC 合同，確認淨利潤為 4,280 萬美元。我們預計該計劃將持續到 2024 年，儘管進度較慢。營運費用的改善是由於人員配備和相關薪酬費用的減少，由於預付款減少而導致服務費用略有下降，以及資產負債表流動性交易量減少，以保持健康的現金總額1.39 億美元和超過15 億美元存在於未支配資產中。

Recourse leverage in the business declined 2.8 times and mark-to-market debt equal to 17% of total debt. The Company's debt maturity ladder remains conservative with no material debt maturities until 2025 and the majority maturing past 2026.

該業務的追索槓桿下降了 2.8 倍，以市值計價的債務相當於總債務的 17%。該公司的債務到期階梯仍然保守，在 2025 年之前沒有重大債務到期，大部分債務在 2026 年後到期。

On the leverage front, we continue to explore multiple avenues of raising corporate debt. Markets for new issues have improved since the beginning of the fourth quarter, and we are confident in our ability to access the markets in the upcoming months, incremental capital raise will be deployed into our origination and acquisition channels, which are witnessing opportunities in excess of current capital levels.

在槓桿方面，我們持續探索籌集企業債務的多種途徑。自第四季度初以來，新發行市場有所改善，我們對未來幾個月進入市場的能力充滿信心，增量融資將部署到我們的發起和收購管道中，這些管道正在見證超過當前的資本水平。

Book value per share was $14.10. The change is due to a $0.09 per share mark down of the residential MSRs, a $0.04 per share reduction in bargain purchase gain and $0.06 of nonrecurring items discussed previously. While we understand it will take time given current market conditions, we remain agile, creative and opportunistic to deliver differentiated credit solutions for our lower middle market customers. As we execute on our strategy, we expect the power of our earnings to cover the dividend consistently and returns to migrate to historical levels.

每股帳面價值為 14.10 美元。這項變更是由於住宅 MSR 每股減價 0.09 美元、討價還價購買收益每股減少 0.04 美元以及先前討論的非經常性項目減少 0.06 美元。雖然我們知道，考慮到當前的市場狀況，這需要時間，但我們仍保持敏捷性、創造性和機會主義，為中低端市場客戶提供差異化的信貸解決方案。當我們執行我們的策略時，我們預計我們的獲利能力能夠持續支付股息，回報率將達到歷史水平。

With that, we will open the line for questions.

至此，我們將開通提問專線。

Thank you. We will now be conducting a question and answer session. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。我們現在將進行問答環節。（操作員說明）

Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

克里斯平·洛夫，派珀·桑德勒。

Please go ahead and Thanks, good morning. Can you talk a little bit about what recent credit trends could mean for potential losses, delinquencies have increased, but what kind of losses do you believe that could lead to just based on what current debt service coverage ratios are and LTVs in the book and then how you might plan to walk out some of the lower performing loans?

請繼續，謝謝，早安。您能談談最近的信貸趨勢對潛在損失意味著什麼嗎？拖欠率有所增加，但是根據當前的償債覆蓋率和賬簿中的貸款價值比，您認為這可能會導致什麼樣的損失？您計劃如何擺脫一些表現不佳的貸款？

and do you want to touch on the loss reserves?

您想談談損失準備金嗎？

Hey, good morning, Kristen.

嘿，早上好，克里斯汀。

Yes, the losses are we look at the bulk in two ways on the determined he saw there that a general overlay, which accounts for roughly 50% of the reserve. And then the asset management team is adding on specific reserves for those loans contained in our higher risk categories.

是的，我們以兩種方式看待大部分損失，因為他在那裡看到了一般覆蓋，約佔儲備的 50%。然後，資產管理團隊為我們的高風險類別中包含的貸款增加特定準備金。

So we think the current CECL reserves account for the expected losses on those those assets in our higher risk buckets now based on sort of the detailed work, the asset management teams, current mark-to-market LTVs, et cetera, and then

因此，我們認為目前的 CECL 儲備金目前是基於詳細工作、資產管理團隊、目前按市值計價的 LTV 等，可以解釋我們較高風險類別中這些資產的預期損失，然後

Hey, it's Adam, you on the credit front, certainly seeing delinquencies, as you highlighted, increase quarter-over-quarter from.

嘿，我是亞當，你在信貸方面，肯定會看到拖欠率，正如你強調的那樣，逐季增加。

We do feel that our basis is still healthy in the majority of our portfolio. We feel that, you know, if you look at the bridge delinquencies where there was a spike, you're certainly seeing and we think that the realized losses will be more at the equity level versus the debt level.

我們確實認為我們大部分投資組合的基礎仍然健康。我們認為，如果你看看出現激增的過橋違約金，你肯定會看到，我們認為，與債務水平相比，已實現的損失將更多地發生在股本層面。

So as Andrew highlighted, we think that our reserves are certainly adequately sized on DSCR stress LTVs are generally below 100% on the majority of the portfolio and really don't anticipate material losses on, but some loans will certainly require some modifications or restructuring and certainly some time to resolve and kind of have I've seen time available for the market to rebound.

因此，正如安德魯所強調的那樣，我們認為我們的儲備規模在DSCR 壓力下肯定是足夠的，大多數投資組合的LTV 通常低於100%，並且確實預計不會出現重大損失，但某些貸款肯定需要進行一些修改或重組，當然需要一些時間來解決，而且我已經看到市場有時間反彈了。

Greg here, appreciate the color, Andrew and Adam.

格雷格在這裡，欣賞顏色，安德魯和亞當。

And then just one on the disposition of the resi mortgage segment.

然後只是關於 Resi 抵押貸款部分的處置。

The new detail why now? And then are you able to provide any color on your confidence of that disposition being completed by June 30, which was in the presentation?

新的細節為什麼是現在？那麼您能否提供任何資訊來表明您對在 6 月 30 日之前完成該處置的信心（簡報中已對此進行了說明）？

And I assume that would likely involve a sale and likely gain just following the loss on discontinued operations this quarter and just one market observation there and you can comment on the process, but right now that the majority of the equity in that business is in the MSRs of which two-thirds are agency. We believe that right now, MSR valuations have peaked and just from a timing perspective in terms of valuation, that's one driver. But Andrew, do you want to touch on the process?

我認為這可能涉及在本季度終止業務損失之後進行出售並可能獲得收益，並且只有一個市場觀察，您可以對這一過程發表評論，但現在該業務的大部分股權都在其中三分之二的MSR 是代理商。我們認為，目前 MSR 估值已見頂，僅從估值的時機角度來看，這是一個驅動因素。但是安德魯，你想談談這個過程嗎？

I mean, certainly we have a high degree of confidence of the transaction closing before the end of the second quarter on part of the criteria of moving a segment into held for sale and discontinued operations is having that complement some of the components of the process will be, as Tom mentioned, obviously, a sale of the MSRs, which comprise the majority of the equity as well as the assumption of the assets and the liabilities of the company and the consideration we'll most likely take the form of on some upfront payment and then an earn-out of sorts. So I think at this point in time, based on where we are in the process.

我的意思是，我們當然對第二季末之前完成的交易充滿信心，因為將一個部門轉為持有待售和終止業務的部分標準是對流程的一些組成部分進行補充正如湯姆提到的，顯然是出售MSR，其中包括大部分股權以及公司資產和負債的承擔，以及我們最有可能採取一些前期形式的對價付款，然後賺取某種收益。所以我認為在這個時間點上，基於我們所處的過程。

We do believe this will close before the end of the second quarter.

我們確實相信這將在第二季末之前完成。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Appreciate you taking the questions.

感謝您提出問題。

The next question we have is from Stephen Laws of Raymond James. Please go ahead.

我們的下一個問題來自雷蒙德·詹姆斯的史蒂芬·勞斯。請繼續。

Stephen Laws, Raymond James & Associates, Inc.

史蒂芬‧勞斯 (Stephen Laws)，雷蒙德‧詹姆斯聯合公司

Hi, good morning. I appreciate all the details in your prepared remarks, Tom, and if I got my notes down correctly, I think you said in the CLOs have defaulted loans about 57%, so roughly 60% you expect to modify on that. I believe you said you need the special servicer approval. Can you talk a little bit more about that process and how you work with that special service? What are those mods primarily look like? Is it is it capital in for more time. Are there other moving parts? Maybe 20 can be unique, but any general trends across those loans yet?

早安.湯姆，我很欣賞你準備好的發言中的所有細節，如果我的筆記正確的話，我想你在CLO 中所說的拖欠貸款大約有57%，所以你預計大約有60% 會對此進行修改。我相信你說過你需要特殊服務商的批准。您能多談談這個流程以及您如何使用這項特殊服務嗎？這些模組主要是什麼樣的？是否需要更多時間？還有其他活動部件嗎？也許 20 筆貸款可能是獨一無二的，但這些貸款有什麼總體趨勢嗎？

And can you comment on that? Yes, short. So in terms of the process and the mode. So borrowers, um, have submitted relief requests for modifications to their loans on those then are under review by the special servicer in the ordinary course and request for modification, what a borrower the special servicer would review approve and cure the delinquency on with certainly our approval is directing certificate holder in several cases, the modification is a contractual bridge to a short-term payoff.

你能對此發表評論嗎？是的，短。所以從流程和模式來看。因此，借款人，嗯，已經提交了修改其貸款的減免請求，然後由特別服務機構在正常情況下進行審查，並請求修改，特別服務機構將審查借款人的內容，批准並糾正拖欠行為，當然我們的在某些情況下，批准正在指導證書持有者，修改是通往短期回報的合約橋樑。

So an example being a sponsor's refinancing the debt or selling the real estate and the modifications you don't can then be executed on in terms of what they look like. And certainly the preference is to have the sponsor bring a fresh with equity injection to the modification on a given that more time is certainly needed in this market. We feel that about yields anywhere from 12 to 18 months on the right amount of time to modify these loans, given the timing that's needed for the market to rebound from.

因此，舉個例子，贊助商為債務再融資或出售房地產，以及您不進行的修改，然後就可以根據它們的外觀來執行。當然，考慮到這個市場肯定需要更多時間，我們更傾向於讓贊助商透過股權注入來進行新的修改。我們認為，考慮到市場反彈所需的時間，在適當的時間內修改這些貸款的收益率約為 12 至 18 個月。

Additionally, this there's cash management, some controls that are put in place on these modifications. And in some cases, we're requiring a third party professional management to come in on behalf of the sponsors and kind of help maintain the at the asset utilized CapEx to really we will provide the necessary maintenance of the of the assets.

此外，還有現金管理，以及對這些修改實施的一些控制措施。在某些情況下，我們需要第三方專業管理人員代表贊助商介入，並幫助維護所使用的資產的資本支出，以便我們真正為資產提供必要的維護。

Thanks, Andrew. Thinking about interest income, can you can you talk about the quality of interest income? How much is cash interest received? How much was accrued or maybe some type of PIC income, if there's any. Can you give us any color on interest income quality?

謝謝，安德魯。思考利息收入，能否談談利息收入的品質？收到多少現金利息？應計金額或某種類型的 PIC 收入（如果有）。您能為我們介紹一下利息收入品質嗎？

Yes, the majority of the interest income is cash-paying. There is a small segment of loans that are accruing based on expected recovery on the loan, but not paying, but it is a very small portion of the book.

是的，大部分利息收入都是現金支付。有一小部分貸款是根據貸款的預期回收率而累積的，但沒有支付，但它只佔帳面的一小部分。

Great.And then finally, if I may, return capital to shareholders. So you closed, I believe with with the comment on the dividend that you think earnings can cover that some.

太棒了。最後，如果可以的話，將資本回饋給股東。所以你結束了，我相信你對股息的評論表明你認為收益可以覆蓋一些。

How do you think about the on the glide path of earnings coverage for the dividend as we move through the year and you execute these challenges, these are efforts to expand our OE and any consideration around stock repurchases given the current valuation, as you may unpack that to

當我們度過這一年並且您執行這些挑戰時，您如何看待股息收益覆蓋率的下滑路徑，這些挑戰是擴大我們的營運成本的努力以及鑑於當前估值而圍繞股票回購的任何考慮，正如您可能會解開的那樣那個到

As Andrew, maybe just comment on the there's five measures we delineated and obviously some of them are immediate like OpEx and some are longer term like the re-levering of the Broadmark equity. So maybe comment on that. And then the prioritization of cash on repurchase versus capital solutions for the for the existing portfolio?.

作為安德魯，也許只是評論我們所描述的五項措施，顯然其中一些是立即的，例如營運支出，一些是長期的，例如 Broadmark 股權的重新槓桿化。所以也許對此發表評論。然後是現有投資組合的回購現金與資本解決方案的優先順序？

As Tom mentioned in his remarks, we believe the totality of all of the options ahead of us is at least roughly over a 400 basis point increase in earnings from their current level. That'll certainly be incremental over the next on a quarter six quarters.

正如湯姆在他的演講中提到的，我們相信我們面前的所有選項的總和至少比目前的水平增加大約 400 個基點的收益。這肯定會在接下來的六季內有所增加。

As Tom mentioned, things like OpEx savings, which we anticipate will add 40 basis points on will be more immediate. And the effect of leverage will be somewhat dependent upon on the times in which we choose to access the market. I mean the redeployment of that capital and then the effect of the portfolio turnover will sort of be felt every quarter. I think Adam can elaborate on that. The plan for and the timing of Walmart liquidations, but that will certainly bleed into earnings. So I think you will see and sort of a glide path over the next four to six quarters in terms of capital allocation, including the share repurchase program. We said we have today $80 million in capacity on our current program for share repurchases. I do believe we will be active in the repurchase program while also balancing and the need to add net interest margin into the income statement in a market where yields are very attractive and putting long-term earnings into the income statement is important.

正如 Tom 所提到的，諸如營運支出節省之類的事情（我們預計將增加 40 個基點）將更加立竿見影。槓桿的效果在某種程度上取決於我們選擇進入市場的時間。我的意思是，每個季度都會感受到資本的重新部署以及投資組合週轉率的影響。我認為亞當可以詳細闡述這一點。沃爾瑪清算的計劃和時間，但這肯定會影響收益。因此，我認為在接下來的四到六個季度中，包括股票回購計畫在內的資本配置將會下滑。我們表示，目前我們的股票回購計畫有 8,000 萬美元的能力。我確實相信，我們將積極參與回購計劃，同時平衡和需要在收益率非常有吸引力的市場中將淨利差添加到損益表中，並且將長期收益納入損益表非常重要。

So I think we will balance both of those given where the stock was trading, certainly on the return provided share repurchases by powerful. So I do anticipate we'll be active in the upcoming months?

因此，我認為我們將在股票交易的情況下平衡兩者，當然在強大的股票回購提供的回報上。所以我預計我們會在接下來的幾個月保持活躍？

Is that the level and then share annual share repurchase strategy?

難道那股水準又是年度股份回購策略？

Yes.

是的。

No, that's sort of the time.

不，這正是時候。

That's what I just commented on seeing.

這就是我剛剛看到的評論。

Douglas Harter, UBS.

道格拉斯‧哈特，瑞銀集團。

Thanks. Wondering if you could talk about the expected pace of putting new capital to work, how you see the opportunity set developing both in order to redeploy capital, but also to increase leverage?

謝謝。想知道您是否可以談談新資本投入使用的預期速度，您如何看待機會集的發展，既為了重新部署資本，又為了增加槓桿？

Yes, just to make a comment on the current investment opportunity pipeline in our ways. And Andrew, maybe comment again on the our Brett Adam, on the liquidation of the Broadmark as well as the forward liquidity. But the at the current market in terms of we kind of look at it in three, three areas. Our silos one is our core bridge lending where for lower middle market, you're getting retained yields on really strong vintage underwriting in the area of 13.5% to 15.5%. That's up, maybe call it 300 basis point, 400 basis points since spread before the rate rise. That's sale one silo two, which is which is cyclical, is the capital solutions where we provide capital to opportunistic equity entry, mostly the multifamily space. And then we'll provide senior mez, et cetera, in the context of restructuring, that's probably more in the call it, 15.5% to 18.5%. And it and that's a that's the other area.

是的，只是想以我們的方式對當前的投資機會管道做出評論。安德魯，也許可以再次評論我們的布雷特亞當（Brett Adam），關於 Broadmark 的清算以及遠期流動性。但就目前市場而言，我們從三個、三個領域來看。我們的筒倉是我們的核心過橋貸款，對於中低端市場，您可以透過非常強勁的老式承保獲得 13.5% 至 15.5% 的保留收益率。自從升息前利差以來，這個數字已經上升了，也許可以稱之為 300 個基點、400 個基點。這是一種週期性的銷售一倉二的資本解決方案，我們為機會性股權進入（主要是多戶住宅空間）提供資本。然後我們將在重組的背景下提供高級中層人員等，這可能更多地稱為 15.5% 至 18.5%。這是另一個領域。

The third area is the acquisitions on and there we're seeing we're starting to see and this is from the external manager, a growing pipeline of sales by banks, which are not, I guess, not unexpected. Those are more in the upper teens, low 20s and with average retained yields. So in short, you're seeing blended returns available to us well into the mid to upper 10s which is about a four or 400 basis point, 500 basis point increase versus where we were prior to the turn in the interest rates. So that's the opportunity set 300 maybe just comment again on that liquidity forward liquidity a

第三個領域是收購，我們開始看到，這是來自外部經理的收購，銀行的銷售管道不斷成長，我想，這並不令人意外。這些人更多地處於十幾歲、二十幾歲的水平，並且保留收益率處於平均水平。簡而言之，您會看到我們可以獲得的混合回報在 10 多歲左右，與利率轉向先前的水平相比，增加了約 4 或 400 個基點、500 個基點。這就是機會集 300 也許只是再次評論流動性遠期流動性 a

Deployment and certainly outside of the portfolio runoff, as specifically in Broadmark, there are a handful of larger liquidity items. We expect to come through the balance in the upcoming weeks and months here. Obviously, the sale of the residential mortgage banking platform is expected to bring in on a net basis, approximately $100 million. We are in the process of financing some of our retained positions from our CLOs that's expected to bring in $130 million in them. I do believe we have line of sight into some corporate issuances. So yes, outside of portfolio runoff, we expect there in the upcoming weeks and months to be roughly $300 million of additional liquidity coming in from Adam, you may just provide some commentary on the timing of the Broadmark liquidations and expected proceeds just to get a complete pictureYes.

部署，當然在投資組合徑流之外，特別是在 Broadmark，還有一些較大的流動性項目。我們預計將在未來幾週和幾個月內實現平衡。顯然，出售住宅抵押貸款銀行平台預計將帶來約 1 億美元的淨收入。我們正在從 CLO 中為我們保留的一些頭寸進行融資，預計將帶來 1.3 億美元的收入。我確實相信我們對一些公司發行有一定的了解。因此，是的，除了投資組合徑流之外，我們預計在接下來的幾週和幾個月內，Adam 將帶來約3 億美元的額外流動性，您可能只需對Broadmark 清算的時間和預期收益提供一些評論，以獲得完整圖片是的。

So we expect to have about 50% of the Broadmark assets paid off within our base is by year end 2024, I think, is a conservative estimate on this, and this excludes current loans where several we expect will pay off during this period.

因此，我認為，到 2024 年底，我們預計將在我們的基礎上償還約 50% 的 Broadmark 資產，我認為這是對此的保守估計，這不包括我們預計在此期間將償還的現有貸款。

And then secondly, there's more opportunity to liquidate other assets in the portfolio that aren't currently flagged for a payoff on just the kind of the velocity of these payoffs. I just kind of give the historical perspective since the merger closed. So about 50 loans paid off for about $250 million to about 23% of the portfolio we have pending payoffs have about 30 assets, and those are the ones that I mentioned would pay off by the end of the year. That's about another, call it about $250 million. So that's another 20% of the portfolio on.

其次，有更多機會清算投資組合中的其他資產，這些資產目前未標記為僅根據這些回報的速度進行回報。我只是給了合併結束以來的歷史觀點。因此，大約 50 筆貸款已償還，金額約為 2.5 億美元，我們待償還的投資組合中約 23% 擁有約 30 項資產，而這些就是我提到的將在今年年底還清的資產。那是另一個數字，大約是 2.5 億美元。這就是投資組合的另外 20%。

So all in all, we should be out of about $500 million by year end. The liquidity on a from a UPB perspective would have would be about $250 million of UPB. Obviously, some of that is levered today on and then yields, certainly a slew of other on payoffs. We're expecting that more and more portfolio that we're currently working through via loan sales on the sponsors that are giving indications that they're working on refinances and sale of assets.

總而言之，到年底我們應該可以節省約 5 億美元。從 UPB 的角度來看，UPB 的流動性約為 2.5 億美元。顯然，其中一些現在已經被槓桿化，然後產生收益，當然還有大量其他的回報。我們預計，我們目前正在透過向贊助商出售貸款來完成越來越多的投資組合，這表明他們正在進行再融資和資產出售。

So just In sum, I think you've what special increases versus the peer group to some extent is apart from that, that focus the concentration and lower middle market, multifamily, which has less credit volatility. We do have because of the delevering from Broadmark. We have this path to a step function in growing liquidity towards the back end of this year, which will result in deployment at these spreads, which, you know, we don't believe this is a 2020 flashing pandemic flash in the pan snapback. So we see the name accretion being very significant over the especially to the back half of this year into 2025.

總而言之，我認為與同業相比，在某種程度上有什麼特別的成長，那就是集中度和中低端市場、多戶型市場，信用波動性較小。由於布羅德馬克的去槓桿化，我們確實做到了。我們有一條通往今年年底增加流動性的階梯函數的路徑，這將導致在這些利差上進行部署，你知道，我們不認為這是 2020 年大流行病的突然反彈。因此，我們認為名稱的增加在今年下半年到 2025 年期間非常顯著。

Jade Rahmani, KPW.

傑德·拉赫馬尼，KPW。

Thank you very much. Just on the credit side with Broadmark and Mosaic, you said 28% purchase discount, do you believe that that's sufficient to absorb losses and therefore, from those two portfolios, they would have no further deterioration on book value and you want to comment?

非常感謝。就Broadmark和Mosaic的信用方面而言，您提到28％的購買折扣，您是否認為這足以吸收損失，因此，從這兩個投資組合來看，它們的賬面價值不會進一步惡化，您想發表評論嗎？

It's mainly or break it down into two components on the Mosaic side, that deal is structured with a contingent equity rights. We that was as follows approximately $90 million. We do not expect to exceed that contingent equity revenue.

Mosaic 方面主要或將其分為兩個部分，該交易的結構是或有股權。我們的金額約為 9000 萬美元。我們預計不會超過或有股權收入。

On the Broadmark side, as we mentioned in the remarks, the discount applied to the NPLs, we still continue to believe is enough to cover some expected principal losses. I think what you will see over the next few quarters is movements. I would call them immaterial movements around the bargain purchase gain in both directions as sort of values get finalized. But yes, we do believe the purchase discount and both of those mergers will prevent future principal losses.

在 Broadmark 方面，正如我們在評論中提到的，對於不良貸款的折扣，我們仍然認為足以彌補一些預期的本金損失。我認為在接下來的幾個季度你會看到一些變化。隨著某種價值的最終確定，我將其稱為圍繞討價還價購買收益的雙向非實質變動。但是，是的，我們確實相信購買折扣和這兩次合併將防止未來的本金損失。

And then on the multifamily side, in the bridge portfolio, Tom, you mentioned 70% of the delinquencies due to one borrower. Some do you believe that we're at peak delinquencies or do you expect it to be lumpy and there will be further deterioration. I mean, I personally don't see why we would now be at peak delinquencies considering the staggering of maturities and the 2021, 2022 vintage originations I think that there probably will still be some deterioration. Do you agree with that?

然後在多戶家庭方面，在過橋投資組合中，湯姆，您提到 70% 的拖欠是由一名借款人造成的。有些人認為我們的拖欠率正處於高峰期，或者您認為拖欠率會不穩定並且會進一步惡化。我的意思是，我個人不明白為什麼我們現在會處於拖欠高峰期，考慮到到期日的驚人程度和 2021 年、2022 年年份的起源，我認為可能仍然會出現一些惡化。你同意嗎？

I think we do agree with that from a broad market perspective, in particular, large balance or upper middle market I'm sorry, upper Block two, the larger sponsors in the Sunbelt markets, for example, where there's significant negative absorption that has to be a period of negative absorption as new supply hits over the next year, year and a half, but our portfolio is very differentiated. So I mean, we look at this in terms of roll rates and negative migration. So it and maybe, Mick, could you comment on how you're looking at the our bridge portfolio versus, you know, in terms of its lower middle market focus and what you're seeing with those sponsors?

我認為，從廣泛的市場角度來看，我們確實同意這一點，特別是大型餘額或中上市場，對不起，上層第二塊，例如陽光地帶市場中較大的讚助商，那裡有顯著的負面吸收，必須隨著未來一年、一年半新供應的到來，這將是一個負吸收期，但我們的投資組合非常差異化。所以我的意思是，我們從滾動率和負遷移的角度來看這個問題。那麼米克，您能否評論一下您如何看待我們的橋樑投資組合，以及您知道的中低端市場重點以及您對這些贊助商的看法？

Yes, it is specific to our multi-family Bridge Portfolio. Tom, you mentioned that the largest asset, um, had defaulted on. So in sum, I mean, our two largest sponsors have actually already defaulted. And we are working through asset solutions, modifications, bridge to bridge finances, et cetera, on either through the special servicers on entry loans that we hold today on the majority of our small middle market sponsors, we feel have greater liquidity and funding on the temporary cover the interest shortfalls. And we think that one may see a spike as we execute on some of the modifications and bridge to bridge strategy on our existing wind delinquency. But we expect really negative migration on to peak. We call it Q1 or Q2 and which is really due to the granular granularity of our Arm remaining portfolio.

是的，它特定於我們的多戶橋樑產品組合。湯姆，你提到最大的資產，呃，已經違約了。總而言之，我的意思是，我們最大的兩個贊助商實際上已經違約了。我們正在透過資產解決方案、修改、橋樑融資等進行工作，或透過我們今天向大多數中小型市場贊助商持有的進入貸款的特殊服務商，我們認為在這方面擁有更大的流動性和資金暫時彌補利息缺口。我們認為，當我們對現有的風能拖欠問題執行一些修改和橋接策略時，人們可能會看到高峰。但我們預期負遷移將達到高峰。我們將其稱為第一季或第二季度，這實際上是由於我們的 Arm 剩餘產品組合的粒度。

And geographically, how would you describe the concentration? Is it largely Sunbelt, but just touched on.

從地理上來說，您如何描述這種集中度？大部分是Sunbelt，但剛剛觸及。

But just to add, as I said, Adam, to give you a comment on it. But if you recall, Jade, one of the kind of one of our credit Bibles is our geo tier model, which uses regression analysis from GFC, ends on lower middle market, mostly multifamily. So we are we basically in that model, we look at forward negative absorption as one of the big drivers as a result of that markets like Boston, San Francisco, et cetera. And in particular, some of the that in the heat map of the Sunbelt where there's a lot of supply coming. We've avoided that.

但正如我所說，亞當，我想補充一下，讓你對此發表評論。但如果你還記得，傑德，我們的信用聖經之一是我們的地理層模型，它使用全球金融危機的回歸分析，最終面向中低端市場，主要是多戶住宅。因此，我們基本上處於該模型中，我們將未來的負吸收視為波士頓、舊金山等市場的主要驅動因素之一。特別是陽光地帶熱圖中的一些區域，那裡有大量供應。我們已經避免了這種情況。

But given that overlay, Adam, what have you seen in terms of the our concentrations in those markets?

但是考慮到這種疊加，亞當，您對我們在這些市場的集中度有何看法？

Yes, new markets such as the Carolinas and Texas. Now where we have heavy concentration on these markets have positive net migration and strong demos on. And as you know, our focus is really on workforce housing and we still expect that there's tremendous demand for these units on specifically for good quality, affordable housing. And given the on really given the positive net migration, we feel that where our assets are located on will remain strong, strong markets on our top our top MSAs in our in our Bridge Portfolio, your Dallas, Dallas, Texas, being the largest, which represents about 25% of the overall portfolio of Atlanta comes in second at about 15%. And then the Phoenix markets about 13%, Charlotte, Houston and Chicago kind of rounds out the remaining of where our big exposure.

是的，新市場如卡羅來納州和德克薩斯州。現在，我們專注於這些市場，並有積極的淨遷移和強大的演示。如您所知，我們的重點實際上是勞動力住房，我們仍然預期對這些單位的巨大需求，特別是優質、經濟適用住房。考慮到確實存在積極的淨遷移，我們認為我們的資產所在地將保持強勁，在我們橋樑投資組合中的頂級 MSA 中，您的達拉斯（德克薩斯州達拉斯市）是最大的，約佔亞特蘭大整體投資組合的25%，位居第二，約佔15%。然後菲尼克斯市場約佔 13%，夏洛特、休士頓和芝加哥則相當於我們剩餘的大部分曝險。

Thank you.

謝謝。

On the office, can you talk to the character of the collateral because there's huge differentiation in the market between skyscrapers and CBD versus suburban office parks versus owner occupied, where say a law firm owns the building and they sublease two floors. So how would you characterize the office? Because I'm surprised that there's no delinquencies in small loans, you know, sub $15 million type loans.

在辦公室方面，您能談談抵押品的特徵嗎？因為摩天大樓和中央商務區與郊區辦公園區與業主佔用之間的市場存在巨大差異，比如說一家律師事務所擁有該建築物，他們轉租了兩層樓。那麼您如何形容辦公室的特色呢？因為我很驚訝小額貸款（1500 萬美元以下的貸款）沒有拖欠。

So your offices, as Tom highlighted in his opening remarks, right. So it's about 5% of the total portfolio on our average balance on our office portfolio is about $3 million on about 160 individual assets. The small-balance nature of these office assets and a lot of it is focused on stable like medical office type properties and really just smaller assets, which again, it's a lot easier on to lease up on a lot of this is on short term leases.

所以，正如湯姆在開場白中所強調的那樣，你們的辦公室是對的。因此，它約佔總投資組合的 5%，我們辦公室投資組合的平均餘額約為 300 萬美元，涉及約 160 項個人資產。這些辦公資產的小餘額性質，其中許多都集中在像醫療辦公室類型的穩定資產和實際上只是較小的資產，同樣，租賃起來要容易得多，其中許多都是短期租賃。

But given the amount of space that needs to be leased up in the small and the small projects on Well, the ability of our sponsors to do that is and isn't as challenging as you highlight when you have these larger these larger office buildings and CBDs. And that's really where the majority of our office delinquencies are our located, which is in the CBD, specifically in Chicago, New York and where those delinquencies are, they now also Los Angeles.

但考慮到 Well 上的小型和小型專案需要租賃的空間量，我們的贊助商做到這一點的能力並不像您強調的那樣具有挑戰性，當您擁有這些更大的辦公大樓和CBD。這確實是我們大多數辦公室拖欠問題所在的地方，即中央商務區，特別是芝加哥和紐約，這些拖欠問題現在也在洛杉磯。

So I think Daniel, just given that that granularity, we feel that we're certainly insulated from a lot of the headlines around the office sector. And it's also it's also from us from a liquidation asset management perspective, also more efficient to work through and liquidate these the smaller assets?

所以我認為丹尼爾，鑑於這種粒度，我們覺得我們肯定不會受到辦公室行業的許多頭條新聞的影響。而且我們從清算資產管理的角度來看，處理和清算這些較小的資產是否也更有效率？

Yes, just at a high level, it's 70% of our 5% office is the is the large balance and they account for 70% tenant delinquency. So it's a handful of small CBD properties in a handful of cities we have to originate, but for which we have, we believe a very strong seasonal reserves. So I think the if you well, the tail risk in our book versus the sector is very, very limited to CBD office.

是的，從高水準來看，我們 5% 的辦公室中的 70% 是最大的餘額，他們佔租戶拖欠的 70%。因此，我們必須在少數幾個城市開發一些小型中央商務區物業，但我們相信這些物業擁有非常強大的季節性儲備。因此，我認為，如果你好的話，我們書中相對於該行業的尾部風險非常非常限於 CBD 辦公室。

Thank you for taking the questions.

感謝您提出問題。

Okay.

好的。

Steven Delaney, JMP Securities.

史蒂文·德萊尼，JMP 證券。

Good morning, everyone, and thanks for taking the question. Andrew, if I could start with you. You mentioned leverage on some opportunities looking forward. Should we assume that would be a new CLO and under your existing shelf? And could we see that as soon as 2Q or 3Q of this year?

大家早安，感謝您提出問題。安德魯，如果我可以從你開始。您提到了利用未來的一些機會。我們是否應該假設這將是一個新的 CLO 並且在您現有的貨架下？我們最快能在今年第二季或第三季看到這一點嗎？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Yes, it's certainly continuing to use our solids as a core financing strategy will be important, and I do expect us to issue in the CLO market this year and most likely a Q3 event. I think when you look at increasing leverage across the business, it's certainly that is one component. But adding on additional corporate debt on for reinvestment and will be a key part of that as well and

是的，繼續使用我們的實體作為核心融資策略肯定很重要，我確實預計我們今年將在 CLO 市場上發行，並且很可能在第三季舉行。我認為，當你考慮提高整個企業的槓桿率時，這肯定是其中一個組成部分。但增加額外的企業債務用於再投資也將是其中的關鍵部分，

Usually tried to target about a $300 million offering under your program.

通常會嘗試在您的計劃下籌集約 3 億美元的資金。

Typically, our CLOs are between $750 million and $1 billion. So they're a little larger in size, yes, some of our other shell of them are smaller, such as our SPA shell for acquisitions of potential, but our CLO offerings tend to be larger in size.

通常，我們的 CLO 金額在 7.5 億美元到 10 億美元之間。所以它們的規模稍大一些，是的，我們的其他一些殼較小，例如我們用於收購潛力的 SPA 殼，但我們的 CLO 產品的規模往往更大。

Thank you to them for you.

替你向他們表示感謝。

Just to add to that, just since the inception of the market where we were the fourth largest overall issuer have issued $7.5 billion is outstanding, so that we do larger new-issue sizes and you have just one single one point on that our spreads on the triple AAA historically are on top of even the put the best names in the sector. And a big part of that is our structures are the most investor friendly in terms of I see over-collateralization triggers, which are one versus the industry at three and the deals being static.

補充一點，自市場誕生以來，我們是第四大發行人，已發行了 75 億美元，表現出色，因此我們發行了規模更大的新股，而我們的利差只有一個點。歷史上，三重AAA甚至領先於該行業的最佳品牌。其中很大一部分是，就我所看到的超額抵押觸發因素而言，我們的結構是對投資者最友好的，與行業相比，超額抵押觸發因素是 1 倍，而且交易是靜態的。

So that does add an annual.

所以這確實增加了年度。

Yes.

是的。

So that does present versus the peer group, a skewness in our delinquency metrics and the time we take for us to buy loans out of the trust or what have you. So just wanted to highlight that on and that that does give us access to the market even in times when there's a yes, like liquidities constraints in the primary ABS market,

因此，與同行相比，我們的拖欠指標以及我們從信託或其他機構購買貸款所需的時間確實存在偏差。因此，我想強調這一點，即使在有條件的情況下，例如一級 ABS 市場的流動性限制，這確實使我們能夠進入市場，

that's good color. Thank you.

那是好顏色。謝謝。

And either one of you, I guess or maybe Adam, on 12, I made a note 12 loans that were 60 days delinquent and then you laid out how many payoffs, mods or foreclosure?

你們中的任何一個，我猜或亞當，在 12 日，我記下了 12 筆拖欠 60 天的貸款，然後你們列出了多少還款、改裝或取消抵押品贖回權？

I didn't get the total of those 12 loans. I didn't get the total UPB and how much specific reserve may be against those 12 loans Thank you.

我沒有拿到這 12 筆貸款的總額。我沒有得到 UPB 總額以及這 12 筆貸款的具體準備金是多少，謝謝。

So those 12 loans is roughly five, $500 million on there. The there's no specific reserve against them beyond Cecil on. And I think the other highlights are I think you have about 15% of that. We expect to pay off in the next two quarters of 60% under the deal pending modification, where we're strategically working with the sponsors Alm and then about 30% of them will likely go through a foreclosure process.

因此，這 12 筆貸款大約相當於 5 筆，即 5 億美元。除了塞西爾之外，沒有針對他們的具體保留。我認為其他亮點是我認為你有大約 15%。我們預計將在未來兩個季度根據待修改的交易獲得 60% 的回報，我們正在與贊助商 Alm 進行策略合作，然後其中約 30% 的人可能會經歷取消抵押品贖回權的流程。

Yes, that 30% would then get fair value at the time it goes to REO, correct?

是的，這 30% 在進入 REO 時將獲得公允價值，對嗎？

That's right.

這是正確的。

Yes.

是的。

Okay, great. And just one final thing, Tom, I guess I'll throw this out to you. I know you're busy running your own company, but you probably have heard about the short-sellers out there on CLO issuers. They've obviously had Arbor, they fit. Blackstone is well, you never mentioned in terms of what you look at and how you look at it, you know, the performance of the loans I didn't hear you mentioned trustee, 10 day late payment data as being of an early warning signal. I guess you know which borrowers are making payments and which are not, but just your thoughts about I know it's a market question and not an RC specific, but you nobody you're not mentioning that data. You mentioned your 30-day and 60-day D Q.s. And I'm just curious what your thoughts are about any value in that trustee data?

好的，太好了。最後一件事，湯姆，我想我會把這個丟給你。我知道您正忙於經營自己的公司，但您可能聽說過 CLO 發行人的賣空者。他們顯然已經有了Arbor，他們很合適。黑石很好，你從來沒有提到你所看到的以及你如何看待它，你知道，貸款的表現我沒有聽到你提到受託人，延遲 10 天的付款數據作為預警信號。我想你知道哪些借款人正在付款，哪些沒有，但只是你的想法，我知道這是一個市場問題，而不是 RC 特定的問題，但你沒有提到這些數據。您提到了 30 天和 60 天的 D Q.s。我只是好奇您對受託人資料的價值有何看法？

Are the you're referencing these special servicers reports on the.

您正在參考這些特殊服務商的報告嗎？

Yes, the PayNet, the payment data that you use, USB and others put out the C at the CLO special servicers, correct, kind of across the reporting.

是的，PayNet、您使用的支付數據、USB 和其他數據在 CLO 特殊服務商處輸出了 C，正確的，有點跨報告。

And the only other point that I think because we just view the and I know that's a differentiator about from our perspective is we do have we do work with a external special servicer, but our Adam and his team are managing all of the actual disposition strategy, asset management strategies. And we do have an early warning indicators that is embedded in our four to five model, our folks, our risk rating system.

我認為唯一的另一點是，因為我們只是查看，我知道從我們的角度來看這是一個區別，我們確實與外部特殊服務商合作，但我們的亞當和他的團隊正在管理所有實際的處置策略、資產管理策略。我們確實有一個預警指標，嵌入到我們的四到五個模型、我們的員工、我們的風險評級系統中。

So Adam, maybe just comment on that in the context of the broader market of linkage between looking at CRE CLO reporting Cressier reporting versus how we've managed it in terms of let's just looking at it as on-balance sheet.

因此，Adam，也許只是在更廣泛的市場背景下評論這一點，即查看 CRE CLO 報告和 Cressier 報告與我們如何管理它之間的聯繫，讓我們只將其視為資產負債表內的內容。

Thanks, Tom. Yes, I think you've given where DCH on our deals come, we have a fair amount of upside.

謝謝，湯姆。是的，我認為您已經給出了我們交易中 DCH 的情況，我們有相當大的上升空間。

Adam PTCA.'s define that.

Adam PTCA. 對此進行了定義。

Yes, the direct answer to your certificate holder digits in oh five, we were the first loss holder on our on our on our CLOs. So given our position, right? So we have our asset management team that works closely with the special servicers on this a portfolio management team. First off, that was really act as a liaison between the sponsor and the special servicers in terms of the draw process, updates on asset level updates. And so we're in constant connection with the sponsors and the and the special servicers to work through solutions on the special servicer are certainly working closely with the sponsors and then they're making recommendations to us on. And I think the our real debt, robust team with the overlay of the special servicer, I think, provides us a unique strategic advantage in the market on that, that answer your question.

是的，直接回答您的憑證持有者數字哦，五，我們是我們的 CLO 上的第一個損失持有者。那麼考慮到我們的立場，對嗎？因此，我們的資產管理團隊與這個投資組合管理團隊的特殊服務人員密切合作。首先，這實際上是在抽籤過程、資產層級更新方面充當贊助商和特殊服務商之間的聯絡人。因此，我們與贊助商和特殊服務商保持持續的聯繫，以製定特殊服務商的解決方案，當然，我們也與贊助商密切合作，然後他們向我們提出建議。我認為，我們真正的債務、強大的團隊以及特殊服務商的覆蓋，我認為為我們在市場上提供了獨特的戰略優勢，這回答了你的問題。

That's helpful. Thank you.

這很有幫助。謝謝。

Christopher Nolan, Ladenburg Thalmann.

克里斯多福諾蘭，拉登堡塔爾曼。

And I guess on rents stable excuse me, multifamily is a do you have any rent stabilization, apartment exposure in New York City?

我想關於租金穩定，請問，多戶住宅是一個問題，您在紐約市有租金穩定的公寓嗎？

We have about I think we have about $175 million of multifamily exposure in New York City. The vast majority of it is on unregulated. So it's so the answer is no, it is very, very low.

我認為我們在紐約市擁有約 1.75 億美元的多戶型投資。其中絕大多數是不受監管的。所以答案是否定的，這是非常非常低的。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

And Tom, in past calls, you indicated Broadmark is expected to be EPS accretive by fourth quarter of 2024, as I still hold

湯姆，在過去的電話會議中，您表示 Broadmark 預計到 2024 年第四季將實現每股收益成長，我仍然認為

under the context of the what the bridge relate I'd maybe comment on that.

在橋樑所涉及的內容的背景下，我可能會對此發表評論。

Yes, we do expect by the fourth quarter the transaction certainly to be accretive to current EPS. We expect to drive from your earnings past our current dividend levels. And as we move into 2025, we expect the full impact of the various items that Tom laid out, including broad market sort of reach their totality and the ultimate earnings accretion based on where we are running in the few quarters, leading up to above are probably happens in the late stages of messages at 2025.

是的，我們確實預計到第四季度，這筆交易肯定會增加目前的每股盈餘。我們預計您的收益將超過我們目前的股利水準。隨著我們進入 2025 年，我們預計 Tom 提出的各種項目的全面影響，包括廣泛的市場將達到其總體水平，以及基於我們在幾個季度的運行情況的最終收益增長，導致上述情況可能發生在2025 年消息的後期階段。

Okay.

好的。

So it's fair to say that the EPS should be there accretion to distributable ROE that you guys are outlining earlier is going to be backloaded in the second half of 2024, and we're really not going to see the full effect of it 2025, correct.

因此，可以公平地說，你們之前概述的 EPS 應該會增加可分配的 ROE，並將在 2024 年下半年回載，並且我們真的不會在 2025 年看到它的全部效果，正確的。

I think that's a fair statement.

我認為這是一個公平的說法。

And so for 2024, we should see probably a distribution ROE somewhere below your 10% target.

因此，到 2024 年，我們可能會看到分配 ROE 低於 10% 的目標。

Is that fair?

這樣公平嗎？

Yes, I think that's where we expect that the cumulative earnings of the Company over the full year to cover the dividend. So at Newell, what we are expecting is a ramp up from where we're at today, something towards the back half of the year. That is that is covering the current 30% and then the near the growth in earnings from that, that level into our historical return targets to happen in as we move into 2025.

是的，我認為這就是我們預期公司全年累積獲利足以支付股息的地方。因此，在紐厄爾，我們期望的是從今天的情況開始，到今年下半年，情況會有所改善。也就是說，這涵蓋了目前的 30%，以及由此產生的接近收益的增長，進入 2025 年時，我們的歷史回報目標將達到這一水平。

That's it for me. Thank you very much.

對我來說就是這樣。非常感謝。

Next question we have is from Sarah Buncombe of BTIG. Please go ahead, everyone.

我們的下一個問題來自 BTIG 的 Sarah Buncombe。請大家繼續。

Thanks for taking the question. And you just gave some dividend coverage commentary. Thanks for that on. Just quickly a follow-up on the topic of CLO performance. It sounds like we should see stronger IC and OC coverage come March, but could we expect to see some further downside to the year on the residual income side of the interest income equation from Q4 levels? Can you give any guidance on the potential Q1 earnings impact there before those loans are resolved as inherently?

感謝您提出問題。您剛剛發表了一些股息覆蓋率評論。謝謝你的幫忙。快速跟進 CLO 表現主題。聽起來我們應該會在 3 月看到更強勁的 IC 和 OC 覆蓋率，但我們是否可以預期今年第四季度利息收入等式的剩餘收入方面會出現進一步下滑？在這些貸款得到解決之前，您能否就第一季獲利的潛在影響提供任何指導？

There's a there's a couple of impacts of tripping. You said on the first one as you mentioned, is cash flow gets diverted away from our reserves on this, or is it other than delever the seniors the way it'll work in the financials, as you'll see to the extent loans in nonaccrual status, you'll see interest compression there and you'll see some of the effects of the delevering of these securities on. So won't because of how we consolidate.

絆倒會產生一些影響。正如您所提到的，您在第一個問題上說，現金流是否從我們的儲備中轉移出來，或者是否除了按照財務方面的方式對老年人進行去槓桿化之外，正如您將在貸款中看到的那樣非應計狀態，你會看到那裡的利息壓縮，你會看到這些證券去槓桿化的一些影響。所以不會因為我們如何整合。

It's not going to show up in the bonds themselves. The total cash flow sort of diverted over this period where the test of Interep has been roughly $8.5 million. And the other financial impact on is during this period where the tests are trapped, the funding accounts that sit inside the deals are diverted away from repurchasing logs. We have funded on balance sheet and diverted through the waterfall of the structure. And so you have a component of loans, roughly $80 million today that are sitting on balance sheet on unlevered.

它不會出現在債券本身。在此期間，總現金流量有所轉移，Interep 的測試約為 850 萬美元。另一個財務影響是在測試陷入困境的這段時間內，交易中的資金帳戶被從回購日誌中轉移出來。我們在資產負債表上提供資金，並透過瀑布結構進行轉移。因此，資產負債表上有一部分貸款，目前約 8,000 萬美元，是無槓桿的。

So you'll have some yield compression there. Those loads eventually will get repurchased into the deals at these. These right-size it for that period of time. You have what I'll call marginal yield compression. So those would be the what are the main effects.

所以你會在那裡受到一些產量壓縮。這些貨物最終將回購這些交易。這些調整了該時間段的大小。我稱之為邊際收益壓縮。這些就是主要影響。

Okay. Thanks for the color there. And then I think you mentioned that 27% of the delinquencies are likely to foreclose? And will those remain in the CLOs as real estate owned?

好的。感謝那裡的顏色。然後我想你提到27%的拖欠可能會取消贖回權？這些資產是否會作為房地產所有權保留在 CLO 中？

Adam, you want to comment, but yes, I think those were historically as loans have become REO that we have had in securitizations. We have purchased them out on. So that's certainly something we will we will consider on as we work through these, but to date, there's been very limited REOs that we have within our within our CLOs. So today, it's not material, but as we kind of work through these assets on some something that that will certainly values.

Adam，你想發表評論，但是，是的，我認為這些在歷史上是因為貸款已經成為我們在證券化中擁有的 REO。我們已經把它們買下來了。因此，這肯定是我們在解決這些問題時會考慮的事情，但到目前為止，我們 CLO 內的 REO 非常有限。所以今天，這並不重要，但當我們利用這些資產來開發一些肯定有價值的東西時。

Okay.

好的。

And then just really quickly on sorry if I missed this at the beginning, but can you remind me if you gave us a target for your volumes in the Freddie Mac and SBA verticals this year?

如果我一開始就錯過了這一點，那麼請盡快說聲抱歉，但是您能否提醒我，您是否給了我們今年在 Freddie Mac 和 SBA 垂直領域的銷售目標？

Yes, you want to kind of ballpark of the on the SBA front, we've been running at about five a little under $500 million over the last three years. And we back around second quarter of last year, we our fintech implemented a <>, our small loan and micro loan strategy. Just to recap, SBA has five three tiers, three, [$355 million] is large loan, mostly real estate secured. And below that, there's a small and micro, which are two different tiers

是的，你想了解一下 SBA 方面的情況，過去三年我們的營運成本約為 5 美元，略低於 5 億美元。去年第二季左右，我們的金融科技實施了我們的小額貸款和小額貸款策略。回顧一下，SBA 有五個三級貸款，其中三個 [3.55 億美元] 是大額貸款，大部分是房地產擔保。再下面，有小型和微型，這是兩個不同的層次

I think below 50,000 Micro. And those are those are loans that are the SBA allows a credit score methodology, which obviously is a very adaptive to what we've been developing with our fintech in Florida, which was one of the leading providers in the PPP program. So we've retrofitted that tack to a <unk>, and that's a strategy whereby we're using that to originate small loans.

我認為低於50,000微。這些是 SBA 允許信用評分方法的貸款，這顯然非常適合我們在佛羅裡達州與金融科技公司一起開發的項目，佛羅裡達州是 PPP 計劃的領先提供者之一。因此，我們已經將其翻新為，這是一種策略，我們正在使用它來起源小貸款。

I think we are running, Andrew, what about $33 million less the clinical $30 million, $40 million run rate of looking out over the next couple of months and ramping. So and then as part of the initiative of the Biden administration to promote in loans too minority women-owned businesses of which the tier that lower tier is a big chunk of that.

我認為我們正在運行，安德魯，大約 3300 萬美元減去臨床 3000 萬美元、4000 萬美元的運行率，以觀察未來幾個月的情況並逐步增加。作為拜登政府倡議的一部分，旨在向少數族裔女性擁有的企業提供貸款，其中較低層的企業佔了很大一部分。

So I'm So with that, the combination of the large loan continued growth there, we've been pushing a lot of it of this. I'm seeing opportunity to take on loan officers that are exiting work from banks that are exiting the SBA business. And this fintech that odd that leads us to a target of $500 million to $750 million for this year and $1 billion over the next couple of years, which is very accretive given the premiums that you have on these loans and which, you know, are usually north of 10 points in the secondary market and the fact that it uses utilizes very limited capital. So I think, again, that's something that is a differentiation in the peer group. That's a little bit underappreciated. So that's the SBA.

所以我對此表示同意，大額貸款持續成長，我們一直在大力推動這一點。我發現有機會接手那些正在退出 SBA 業務的銀行的信貸員。這種奇怪的金融科技讓我們今年的目標達到 5 億至 7.5 億美元，未來幾年達到 10 億美元，考慮到這些貸款的溢價，這是非常增值的，而且你知道，通常在二級市場上10 點以上，而且其使用的資金非常有限。所以我再次認為，這就是同儕群體中的差異化。這有點被低估了。這就是 SBA。

And Adam, you want to just to comment on how you're positioning the business from the standpoint of the OEM the core bridge and the other related to construction and other products?

Adam，您想從 OEM、核心橋樑以及其他與建築和其他產品相關的角度評論您如何定位業務？

Yes, I think I just answered. I think the question was around the Capio, our capital, a Freddie businesses on the multifamily side, I think the volumes they're expecting about we're targeting $1 billion for 2024 for PAM. And those capitalized multifamily programs are split are split between our small balance loan program where we have the license through Freddie Mac And then separately, our affordable multifamily business, which is the tax-exempt business, some of which makes up the $1 billion target for 2024.

是的，我想我剛剛回答了。我認為問題是圍繞我們的資本 Capio，即多戶住宅方面的房地美企業，我認為他們預期的數量是我們的目標是 2024 年 PAM 達到 10 億美元。這些資本化的多戶家庭計劃分為我們的小額餘額貸款計劃，我們透過Freddie Mac 獲得許可，然後分別是我們的負擔得起的多戶家庭業務，即免稅業務，其中一些構成了10 億美元的目標2024 年。

Great. Thanks for all the detail there.

偉大的。感謝那裡的所有細節。

Appreciate it.

欣賞它。

Thanks, sir.

謝謝先生。

Next question we have is from Matt Howlett of B. Riley Securities. Please go ahead over the pressure.

我們的下一個問題來自 B. Riley Securities 的 Matt Howlett。請頂著壓力勇往直前。

Taking my question a ton, you mentioned I think you said high 10s to low 20% yield on the potentially on the acquired channel with some of the banks are those unlevered as the first question?

就我的問題來說，你提到我認為你說過，在與一些銀行的收購管道上潛在的高 10% 到低 20% 的收益率是那些無槓桿的銀行作為第一個問題嗎？

Two, could you just walk me through some of the economics of those?

第二，可以告訴我一些其中的經濟學原理嗎？

I mean, were you were you buying at whatever discounts that the paper it is yes, these are from lower middle market, usually stabilized loans that are on are usually it ended up criticized. They're not in default or what we call scratch and dent.

我的意思是，如果你以任何折扣購買紙張，是的，這些來自中低端市場，通常是穩定的貸款，通常最終會受到批評。它們不是預設的，也不是我們所說的刮痕和凹痕。

But from a bank regulatory standpoint, the they get criticized usually due to response because of DIDSCRB. approaching that kind of below one zero threshold. And that's great from our perspective because we like we utilize in our asset management strategies for acquired portfolios. We were one of the larger buyers of the smaller balance loans. After the GFC, we bought nearly $5 billion and we worked out 5,000 loans.

但從銀行監管的角度來看，他們通常會因為 DIDSCRB 的反應而受到批評。接近低於一零的閾值。從我們的角度來看，這很好，因為我們喜歡在資產管理策略中利用收購投資組合。我們是小額餘額貸款的較大買家之一。全球金融危機後，我們買了近 50 億美元，發放了 5,000 筆貸款。

So we have a track record on. And so in short to answer your question the scratch-and-dent portfolios trade probably low 90's to low 80's to unlevered yields, Adam, we're looking what high single, low double. They many times come with staple financing or we can we have more. What I find interesting is we have more offers for credit on a secured lending basis term lending with limited mark-to-market from the banks, given the Basel three changes, which favor loan on loan real estate being a lot better than making direct loans. So anyways that with that, either the staple financing from the seller and or the third party financing from banks that gets us to levered IRRs on that high-single, low double to that kind of upper 10s area loss-adjusted?

所以我們有記錄。簡而言之，為了回答你的問題，刮痕投資組合的交易可能是90 年代的低點到80 年代的低點，再到無槓桿收益率，亞當，我們正在尋找什麼是高單收益、低雙收益。他們很多時候都提供主要融資，或者我們可以提供更多。我發現有趣的是，考慮到巴塞爾三項變化，我們有更多以擔保貸款為基礎的定期貸款的信貸報價，銀行按市值計價有限，這些變化有利於貸款房地產貸款比直接貸款要好得多。那麼無論如何，無論是來自賣方的主要融資還是來自銀行的第三方融資，都可以讓我們在高單倍、低雙倍到那種上10區損失調整的槓桿IRR上？

Yes, we've also done since inception, we've done 11 stand-alone securitization of this strategy. So that's just another layer in terms of getting higher returns on that portfolio?

是的，自成立以來，我們也做了這策略的 11 次獨立證券化。那麼這只是獲得更高投資組合回報的另一層？

Yes, that's important point, a good point. And so we do have access to our RCMT. shelf, is that right?

是的，這是重要的一點，很好的一點。所以我們確實可以使用 RCMT。架子，是嗎？

Adam,

亞當，

It's ASSCMD. safety, sorry, SENTEL, so that

這是 ASSCMD。安全，對不起，SENTEL，所以

that's where we have historically utilized purchase of these portfolios in the secondary market, which is a little bit differentiated, again, a differentiator from us in the peer group to buy these pools from banks rated securitization trusts to then finance them in the ABS market. But again, right now, what's very unique versus the last credit cycle. Gfc is the availability of bank financing on it longer term secured basis with limited mark-to-market such as deep

這就是我們歷史上在二級市場上購買這些投資組合的地方，這與我們在同行中的同行群體有一點區別，即從銀行評級的證券化信託購買這些投資組合，然後在ABS 市場為其融資。但現在再次強調，與上一個信貸週期相比，這是非常獨特的。Gfc 是指以有限的以市價計價的長期擔保基礎上銀行融資的可用性，例如深

On the bigger packages you see from the community bank corporately, would you get to go through a waterfall and bid on those?

對於您從社區銀行公司看到的更大的包裹，您會通過瀑布來投標嗎？

Or is it something that's when they're ready, it looks at well, you know, we need to external manager has a significant trading desk and sources these deals. And so we definitely look as part of our acquisition silo and the services provided by the external manager to bid jointly and allocate our equity accordingly.

或者是當他們準備好時，看起來很好，你知道，我們需要外部經理擁有一個重要的交易台並獲得這些交易。因此，我們肯定將外部經理提供的服務視為我們收購筒倉的一部分，以聯合競標並相應地分配我們的股權。

Yes, we've done that in a number of ways. Number of transactions over the last decade.

是的，我們已經透過多種方式做到了這一點。過去十年的交易數量。

Great. And just final question I'll get on the buyback. What do you feel like the 14 order book is pretty good. What I'm saying, what would be your sense of urgency given the what will be an improvement in the ROE and probably the dividend over time, you feel like to act sooner with the buyback than later, where does that stack up and the list of priorities for us from that.

偉大的。最後一個問題我將討論回購。感覺14本的書還不錯吧。我想說的是，考慮到隨著時間的推移，股本回報率和股息可能會有​​所改善，你的緊迫感是什麼，你想儘早採取回購行動，而不是稍後採取行動，這在哪裡疊加以及清單我們的優先事項。

And yes, certainly where the shares are trading and I think it will be a priority for us coming out of earnings. Again, there is that you need to balance using the liquidity on the balance sheet today and for that purpose versus taking advantage of new investment that will provide sort of longer-term earnings power for the Company?

是的，當然是股票交易的地方，我認為這將是我們獲利的首要任務。同樣，您需要平衡使用當前資產負債表上的流動性並為此目的與利用將為公司提供某種長期盈利能力的新投資？

I will say, given some of the liquidity events we laid out earlier in the call, I think those items will provide a lot more flexibility to be more aggressive in the share repurchase program should shares hang around these levels.

我想說的是，考慮到我們在電話會議早些時候提出的一些流動性事件，我認為如果股價徘徊在這些水平附近，這些項目將提供更大的靈活性，使股票回購計劃更加積極。

Great, thank you.

太好了謝謝。

Jade Rahmani of KBW. Please go ahead.

KBW 的 Jade Rahmani。請繼續。

Thank you very much. Yes, on the questions about share buybacks, pretty interesting at this point in the cycle where there's clearly very high delinquencies in the portfolio and a lot of credit uncertainty in the outlook, it seems to me a better use of capital would be defensive. So I just wanted to ask about the corporate debt issuance, what kind of issuances being complex contemplated? Do you have an a range of sizes you're thinking about and what the cost might be?

非常感謝。是的，關於股票回購的問題，在周期的這個階段非常有趣，投資組合中的拖欠率明顯非常高，前景中存在很多信貸不確定性，在我看來，更好地利用資本將是防禦性的。所以我想問企業債發行，什麼樣的發行是複雜的？您是否有正在考慮的尺寸範圍以及成本可能是多少？

So I think there are a variety of options.

所以我認為有多種選擇。

I think you may see some it's a combination or private placement and potentially some of the retail channels that have been opened across a couple of deals. Since the Q4 be an option for us in terms of sizing, I would expect them to be more measured anywhere from $75 million to $150 million. I think the cost for those issuances today is somewhere in the range of 9% to 10% on yield well.

我認為您可能會看到一些是組合或私募，並且可能是透過幾筆交易開設的一些零售管道。由於 Q4 在尺寸方面是我們的一個選擇，我預計它們的價格會在 7500 萬美元到 1.5 億美元之間。我認為目前這些發行的成本在 9% 到 10% 的收益率範圍內。

And so what's the use of proceeds you're going to lever that capital rather than pay off capital elsewhere. Is any of this used to care deficiencies or to pay off secured debt secured leverage elsewhere?

那麼，您將利用該資本而不是在其他地方償還資本，那麼收益有什麼用處呢？這些是否用於彌補缺陷或償還其他地方的擔保債務擔保槓桿？

Yes, certainly. And the combination of all the liquidity will be used for a variety of the things you just mentioned. Some of it will be to manage some of the problem areas in the portfolio, whether it be refi repurchasing from CLOs, et cetera.

是的，當然了。所有流動性的結合將用於你剛才提到的各種事情。其中一些將是為了管理投資組合中的一些問題領域，無論是從 CLO 進行再融資回購，等等。

And a large majority of that will be used for reinvestment in our origination channels and acquisitions on those. And then some of that liquidity will be used in the share repurchase program. We certainly agree with you that having ample amount of liquidity on the balance sheet to manage uncertainty across the cycle and continues to be the priority and certainly balancing those other areas of capital uses, including the repurchase and new investments, we'll be done so with our top priority in mind.

其中大部分將用於對我們的發起管道進行再投資以及對這些管道的收購。然後部分流動資金將用於股票回購計畫。我們當然同意您的觀點，即資產負債表上擁有充足的流動性來管理整個週期的不確定性，並且仍然是優先事項，並且當然會平衡資本使用的其他領域，包括回購和新投資，我們將這樣做牢記我們的首要任務。

So we do agree with you that carrying NAM increased liquidity amounts, lower leverage throughout the cycle is important and will continue to lead the way we manage the business.

因此，我們確實同意您的觀點，即在整個週期內增加 NAM 的流動性、降低槓桿率非常重要，並將繼續引領我們管理業務的方式。

Yes, just to from a more macro perspective to add on what it is. And Jade, we're looking at the wall of liquidity we have coming in in the back end of kind of phased in through this calendar year are you clearly prioritizing defensive? Have you split in assets management strategies like strategic refis? Because we fully strongly believe that our lower middle market sponsors, the big guys have crossed the vintage of have already experienced stress are in workout, but we have a lot of lower middle market sponsors with more workforce housing that are covering some of the stress in DSCR and there is a bridge to agency take-up just like some of our larger, some of the other retailers are focused in the multifamily small balance space.

是的，只是從更宏觀的角度來補充它是什麼。傑德，我們正在研究今年後端逐步引入的流動性牆，您是否明確優先考慮防禦性？您是否在資產管理策略（例如策略再融資）方面存在分歧？因為我們完全堅信，我們的中低端市場贊助商、大公司已經度過了已經經歷過壓力的時期，正在鍛煉，但我們有很多中低端市場贊助商，擁有更多的勞動力住房，可以彌補一些壓力DSCR 和代理商之間有一座橋樑，就像我們的一些較大的零售商一樣，其他一些零售商也專注於多戶型小型平衡空間。

And we believe strongly believe that looking at the forward curve and rent growth over the next 24 months, that that will provide a better use of capital. And then let's say, immediate repurchases of shares over the over the next 18 months.

我們堅信，從未來 24 個月的遠期曲線和租金成長來看，這將提供更好的資本利用。比如說，在接下來的 18 個月內立即回購股票。

Thank you. And with that, I would like to turn the floor back over to Tom capacity for closing remarks.

謝謝。說到這裡，我想請湯姆發言結束。

Yes. We appreciate everybody's time today and look forward to the next quarter's earning call.

是的。我們感謝大家今天抽出時間，並期待下個季度的財報電話會議。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的會議到此結束。感謝您加入我們。您現在可以斷開連線。