Quantumscape Corp (QS) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to QuantumScape's fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. John Saager, QuantumScape's Vice President of Capital Markets, you may begin your conference.

大家好，歡迎參加 QuantumScape 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。QuantumScape 資本市場副總裁 John Saager，您可以開始您的會議了。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and thank you to everyone for joining QuantumScape's fourth-quarter 2024 earnings call.

謝謝您，接線生。下午好，感謝大家參加 QuantumScape 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

To supplement today's discussion, please go to our IR website at ir.quantumscape.com to view our shareholder letter. Before we begin, I want to call your attention to the Safe Harbor provision for forward-looking statements that is posted on our website as part of our quarterly update. Forward-looking statements generally relate to future events, future technology progress, or future financial or operating performance.

為了補充今天的討論，請訪問我們的 IR 網站 ir.quantumscape.com 查看我們的股東信。在我們開始之前，我想請您注意作為我們季度更新的一部分發佈在我們網站上的前瞻性陳述的安全港條款。前瞻性陳述通常與未來事件、未來技術進步或未來財務或經營績效有關。

Our expectations and beliefs regarding these matters may not materialize. Actual results and financial periods are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected.

我們對這些問題的期望和信念可能不會實現。實際結果和財務期間受風險和不確定因素的影響，可能導致實際結果與預測結果有重大差異。

There are risk factors that may cause actual results to differently from the content of our forward-looking statement for the reasons that we cite in our shareholder letter, Form 10-K, and other SEC filings, including uncertainties posed by the difficulty in predicting future outcomes.

存在一些風險因素，可能導致實際結果與我們的前瞻性聲明的內容不同，原因已在股東信、10-K 表格和其他 SEC 文件中提及，包括難以預測未來結果所帶來的不確定性。

Joining us today will be QuantumScape's CEO, Dr. Siva Sivaram, and our CFO, Kevin Hettrich.

今天與我們一起參加的有 QuantumScape 的執行長 Siva Sivaram 博士和我們的財務長 Kevin Hettrich。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Siva.

說完這些，我想把電話轉給 Siva。

Thank you, John. I'd like to briefly recap our achievements over the past year and lay out our goals for 2025. 2024 was a watershed year for QuantumScape, reinforcing our status as the global leader in solid-state battery technology. We achieved our four key goals for the year. We shipped Alpha-2 samples incorporating advanced packaging and high loading cathodes.

謝謝你，約翰。我想簡要回顧一下我們過去一年的成就，並概述我們 2025 年的目標。我們實現了今年的四個主要目標。我們運送了採用先進封裝和高負載陰極的 Alpha-2 樣品。

We ramped Raptor, the first deployment of our disruptively faster and more efficient separator heat treatment process. We began low-volume B0 production of QSE-5 cells with industry-leading performance, energy density of 844-watt hours per liter, and capable of exceptional safety, fast charging in about 12 minutes, excellent discharge power, and low temperature operation.

我們對 Raptor 進行了升級，這是我們首次部署速度更快、更有效率的隔膜熱處理流程。我們開始小批量生產 B0 版 QSE-5 電池，具有業界領先的性能，能量密度為每公升 844 瓦時，並且具有出色的安全性、約 12 分鐘快速充電、出色的放電功率和低溫運行等特點。

Most recently, in December, we released our advanced Cobra separator heat treatment equipment, setting the stage for higher volume B1 production in 2025.

最近，在 12 月，我們發布了先進的 Cobra 隔板熱處理設備，為 2025 年更大批量的 B1 生產奠定了基礎。

Last year, we also unveiled the cornerstone of our commercial licensing strategy, our partnership with PowerCo, the battery manufacturing company of the Volkswagen Group.

去年，我們也公佈了商業授權策略的基石—與大眾汽車集團電池製造公司PowerCo的合作。

We are building out a 150-plus person joint team with experts from both companies that's working together on site at our facilities in San Jose, California. This team has a singular goal: industrialize the QSE-5 technology platform for use in electric vehicles, leading up to a gigawatt hour scale production of the QSE-5 platform in PowerCo's owned facilities.

我們正在組建一支由兩家公司的專家組成的 150 多人的聯合團隊，他們在加州聖荷西的工廠現場工作。這個團隊有一個獨特的目標：將 QSE-5 技術平台工業化用於電動車，並在 PowerCo 自己的工廠中實現千兆瓦時的規模生產。

For gigawatt hour-scale production, a package of technology and intellectual property is required to produce sales based on our QSE-5 platform. This package includes, among other things, equipment designs, materials, process definition and recipes, metrology specifications, and software APIs. We are making significant progress in developing all the necessary elements of this technology package.

對於千兆瓦時規模的生產，需要一套技術和智慧財產權才能基於我們的QSE-5平台進行銷售。該產品包羅萬象，包括設備設計、材料、製程定義和配方、計量規格和軟體 API 等。我們在開發該技術包的所有必要元素方面取得了重大進展。

Our baseline for the B0 cell production currently uses the Raptor separator process. The baseline has significantly improved yield and reliability as we have learned and refined the various subcomponents of the process.

我們 B0 電池生產的基礎目前採用 Raptor 隔膜製程。隨著我們了解並改進該流程的各個子組件，基線已顯著提高產量和可靠性。

Raptor, in particular, has demonstrated much improved separator quality and process stability and will serve as the workhorse in separator production while we prepare to transition to Cobra. We expect to switch our baseline process from Raptor to Cobra in 2025, enabling higher volume B1 sample production.

尤其是 Raptor，其隔膜品質和製程穩定性已大幅提升，當我們準備過渡到 Cobra 時，它將作為隔膜生產的主力。我們預計在 2025 年將我們的基礎製程從 Raptor 轉換為 Cobra，從而實現更大批量的 B1 樣品生產。

With a successful 2024 behind us, it's time to turn our attention to 2025. We are focused on readying our technology platform for transfer to prospective licensees, working shoulder to shoulder with our partners. The singular aim of this effort is to bring our solid-state lithium metal technology to market, beginning with our prospective large customer.

2024 年的成功已經過去，現在是時候將目光轉向 2025 年了。我們致力於與合作夥伴並肩工作，做好將我們的技術平台轉移給潛在被授權人的準備。這項努力的唯一目標是將我們的固態鋰金屬技術推向市場，首先從我們的潛在大客戶開始。

Our key goals for the year reflect this. Our first goal is to bring Cobra into baseline production. Now that Cobra heat treatment equipment has been released, we will finish qualifying downstream processing equipment and metrology capable of keeping pace with much higher rates of separator production. When the full separator reduction flow is in place and achieving sufficient yield and quality, Cobra will supplant Raptor in the baseline.

我們今年的主要目標就體現了這一點。我們的第一個目標是將 Cobra 投入基線生產。現在，Cobra 熱處理設備已經發布，我們將完成下游加工設備和計量的認證，以跟上更高的隔膜生產率。當分離器還原流程完全到位並實現足夠的產量和品質時，Cobra 將在基線上取代 Raptor。

Our second goal is to install higher-volume cell production equipment. Together with PowerCo, we are industrializing the rest of the cell assembly process to match the higher throughput of Cobra. To achieve QSE-5 B1 sample production, the joint team will work on automation, equipment development, and installation of higher-volume cell-build equipment.

我們的第二個目標是安裝更大容量的電池生產設備。我們正與 PowerCo 合作，對剩餘的電池組裝流程進行工業化生產，以匹配 Cobra 更高的產量。為了實現QSE-5 B1樣品生產，聯合團隊將致力於自動化、設備開發和更高容量電池製造設備的安裝。

Our third goal, and our most significant operational milestone, is to ship QSE-5 B1 samples for customer testing. B1 samples are intended to reflect a mature set of cell performance and manufacturing specifications, and initial volumes of QSE-5 B1 cell shipments will support the demonstration phase of the launch program with our prospective customer targeted for 2026.

我們的第三個目標，也是我們最重要的營運里程碑，是發送 QSE-5 B1 樣品供客戶測試。B1 樣品旨在反映一套成熟的電池性能和製造規格，QSE-5 B1 電池的初始出貨量將支持我們與 2026 年潛在客戶的啟動計劃的演示階段。

Our final goal for the year is to expand our commercial engagements. The partnership with PowerCo is the blueprint for achieving our ambition of licensing our technology platform across the electric vehicle and energy storage industries.

我們今年的最終目標是擴大我們的商業合作。與 PowerCo 的合作是我們在電動車和儲能產業授權我們的技術平台的宏偉目標的藍圖。

This year, we aim to expand our portfolio of potential licensing partnerships, and we are in active discussions with true automotive OEMs. We are also building relationships with technology partners and global players across the battery value chain.

今年，我們的目標是擴大潛在的許可合作夥伴組合，並正在與真正的汽車原始設備製造商進行積極討論。我們也正在與電池價值鏈上的技術合作夥伴和全球參與者建立關係。

I'd like to say a few final words about our strategic outlook. Our mission is to revolutionize the electric vehicle and energy storage industries. The core of our value creation is our technology platform. and the success of this platform is determined by three main elements: process, product and partners.

最後我想談談我們的戰略展望。我們的使命是徹底改變電動車和儲能產業。我們價值創造的核心是我們的技術平台。而這個平台的成功取決於三個主要要素：流程、產品和合作夥伴。

With respect to process, in 2024, we made major strides with our next-generation Cobra separate and heat treatment process. The first version of Cobra equipment is already operating and thanks to dramatically better efficiency and process economics, Cobra will support increasing volumes of B1 samples in 2025 and serve as a key enabler to gigawatt or scale deployment of our technology.

在製程方面，2024年，我們在下一代Cobra分離和熱處理製程方面取得了重大進展。Cobra 設備的第一個版本已投入運行，由於效率和製程經濟性的大幅提高，Cobra 將在 2025 年支援增加 B1 樣品的數量，並成為我們技術實現千兆瓦或大規模部署的關鍵推動因素。

On the product front, 2024 saw the debut of our industry-leading first product, the QSE-5 cell, boasting a combination of performance features, which demonstrates the compelling value of our technology platform. QSE-5 represents a no-compromise solid-state battery unmatched in the industry. In 2025, we will produce higher volume B1 samples of the QSE-5 product for our prospective launch customer and others.

在產品方面，2024年我們推出了業界領先的首款產品QSE-5電池，該產品擁有多種性能特點，彰顯了我們技術平台的強大價值。QSE-5 代表了業界無與倫比的無可挑剔的固態電池。2025 年，我們將為潛在的發布客戶和其他客戶生產更大批量的 QSE-5 產品 B1 樣品。

Finally, in 2024, we unveiled our partnership under our capital-light licensing model. PowerCo's personnel, expertise and resources will help drive the rapid industrialization of our technology platform. We also believe this licensing partnership is the first of many and in 2025, we will expand our commercial engagements.

最終，在 2024 年，我們在輕資本授權模式下公佈了合作夥伴關係。PowerCo 的人員、專業知識和資源將有助於推動我們的技術平台的快速工業化。我們也相信，此次授權合作只是眾多合作中的第一個，2025 年，我們將擴大我們的商業合作。

This year, we are building momentum on all fronts, integrating Cobra and high-volume B1 cell production processes into our baseline, shipping B1 samples of our QSE-5 product and forging partnerships across the battery value chain.

今年，我們在各個方面都取得了進展，將 Cobra 和大批量 B1 電池生產流程整合到我們的基線中，運送我們的 QSE-5 產品的 B1 樣品，並在整個電池價值鏈中建立合作夥伴關係。

Executing on these goals will further cement our place as the global leader in solid-state batteries without understating the tasks ahead. We are closer than ever to achieving our long-term goals. Industrializing our next-generation battery technology platform, creating exceptional value for our shareholders, and revolutionizing energy storage.

實現這些目標將進一步鞏固我們作為固態電池全球領導者的地位，同時也不要低估未來的任務。我們比以往任何時候都更接近實現我們的長期目標。實現我們下一代電池技術平台的工業化，為我們的股東創造卓越的價值，並徹底改變能源儲存方式。

Thank you for your support, and we look forward to reporting on our continued success in the year ahead.

感謝您的支持，我們期待在來年繼續成功。

With that, let me turn things over to Kevin.

說完這些，讓我把事情交給凱文。

Thank you, Siva. Capital expenditures in the fourth quarter were $11.2 million, and for the full year, 2024 were $62.1 million within guidance. Q4 CapEx primarily supported equipment purchases for lower volume QSE-5 B0 sample production as well as the Cobra process and other equipment as we prepare for higher volume QSE-5 B1 sample production in 2025.

謝謝你，Siva。第四季的資本支出為 1,120 萬美元，2024 年全年資本支出為 6,210 萬美元，符合預期。Q4 資本支出主要用於支援購買用於較小批量 QSE-5 B0 樣品生產的設備以及 Cobra 製程和其他設備，為我們在 2025 年更大批量 QSE-5 B1 樣品生產做準備。

GAAP operating expenses and GAAP net loss in Q4 were $128.7 million and $114.7 million. And for full year 2024, were $525.2 million and $477.9 million, respectively. Adjusted EBITDA loss was $4.7 million in Q4, in line with expectations and $285 million for full year 2024 within guidance.

第四季的 GAAP 營業費用和 GAAP 淨虧損分別為 1.287 億美元和 1.147 億美元。2024 年全年分別為 5.252 億美元及 4.779 億美元。第四季調整後 EBITDA 虧損為 470 萬美元，符合預期，2024 年全年虧損 2.85 億美元，符合預期。

A table reconciling GAAP net loss and adjusted EBITDA loss is available in our shareholder letter. For 2025, we forecast CapEx of between $45 million and $75 million and adjusted EBITDA loss to be between $250 million and $280 million.

我們的股東信中提供了 GAAP 淨虧損與調整後 EBITDA 虧損的對照表。到 2025 年，我們預測資本支出將在 4,500 萬美元至 7,500 萬美元之間，調整後的 EBITDA 損失將在 2.5 億美元至 2.8 億美元之間。

This reduction in overall spend from 2024 levels further aligns our workforce and operational focus with our capital-light business model, supporting our 2025 goals, including shipping initial volumes of QSE-5 B1 cells to the demonstration phase of the launch program with our prospective customer targeted for 2026.

整體支出較 2024 年水準的減少進一步使我們的員工和營運重點與輕資本業務模式保持一致，支持我們實現 2025 年的目標，包括將第一批 QSE-5 B1 電池運送到我們潛在客戶的發布計劃的演示階段，目標是在 2026 年實現。

We ended 2024 with $910.8 million in liquidity, which includes $128.5 million of net proceeds raised under our at-the-market equity program. This extends our cash runway into the second half of 2028, six months longer than our previous guidance. Any additional funds from customer inflows or from capital markets activity would further extend this cash runway.

截至 2024 年，我們的流動資金為 9.108 億美元，其中包括根據市場股權計劃籌集的 1.285 億美元淨收益。這將使我們的現金流延長至 2028 年下半年，比我們之前的預期長六個月。來自客戶流入或資本市場活動的任何額外資金都將進一步延長這條現金跑道。

Thanks, Kevin. We'll begin today's Q&A portion with a few questions we've received from investors or that I believe investors would be interested in. Commercialization plans are at the forefront of investors' minds. What are the plans for PowerCo and QSE-5 launch customer?

謝謝，凱文。今天的問答環節我們將以投資者提出的或我認為投資者會感興趣的幾個問題開始。商業化計劃是投資者最關心的問題。PowerCo 和 QSE-5 對首發客戶有什麼計畫？

Thanks, John. As we said in the shareholder letter, B1 samples are going to support the demonstration phase of our customers' launch program, which is targeted by 2026. As much as I'd like to share more, I need to maintain customer confidentiality.

謝謝，約翰。正如我們在股東信中所說，B1 樣品將支持我們客戶發布計劃的演示階段，目標是到 2026 年。儘管我願意分享更多，但我需要保守客戶機密。

With respect to our PowerCo relationship in the third of last year, we made the decision to pursue a capital-light licensing business model. The first demonstration of feasibility of this model is the collaboration agreement with PowerCo.

就我們與 PowerCo 的合作關係而言，去年第三季我們決定推行輕資本授權業務模式。此模式可行性的第一個證明是與PowerCo的合作協議。

We have a well-developed long-term road map of industrialization between the two companies. The near-term work involves getting our B1 sample production running on-site in San Jose and PowerCo is helping out on elements of cell production.

我們與兩家公司之間有著完善的長期工業化路線圖。近期的工作包括在聖荷西現場啟動 B1 樣品生產，而 PowerCo 則在電池生產的各個環節提供協助。

In parallel with that effort, we are working to build a technology package for PowerCo to take our QSE-5 platform to gigawatt hour scale production. And we are working on all aspects of this package today. The QSE-5 platform is packaged into a customized technology solution that will be licensed to individual customers.

同時，我們正在努力為 PowerCo 建立一個技術包，以使我們的 QSE-5 平台實現千兆瓦時規模的生產。今天我們正在研究這項方案的各個面向。QSE-5平台被打包成一個客製化的技術解決方案，並將授權給個人客戶。

On that front, we are expanding our commercial engagements and are in active discussions with two automotive OEMs about licensing arrangements.

在這方面，我們正在擴大商業合作，並正在與兩家汽車原始設備製造商積極討論許可安排。

And just to give investors additional color on the typical progression of licensing arrangements. Customer cash inflows may occur ahead of revenue from licensing. These cash inflows may take many forms, including NRE payments, reimbursement of certain expenditures and license prepays. Licensing revenue will then follow successful technology transfer and partner startup production.

只是為了讓投資者更了解許可安排的典型進展。客戶現金流入可能先於授權收入出現。這些現金流入可能有多種形式，包括 NRE 付款、某些支出的報銷和許可證預付款。授權收入將隨著成功的技術轉移和合作夥伴啟動生產而產生。

Thanks so much, guys. Kevin, we're guiding to the midpoint of CapEx to be about flat and adjusted EBITDA loss to be lower in 2025 than 2024. Is this because of the focus on a licensing model? And what is the company doing to adapt to this model?

非常感謝大家。凱文，我們預計 2025 年資本支出中點將基本持平，調整後的 EBITDA 損失將低於 2024 年。這是因為關注授權模式嗎？那麼公司正在採取哪些措施來適應這種模式呢？

Thank you for the question, John. There are three primary drivers. First, as you mentioned, is our licensing model. Our task is to develop and transfer of the package of technology and intellectual property to our licensing partner. This task requires less spending when compared to a manufacturing business model.

謝謝你的提問，約翰。主要有三個驅動因素。首先，正如您所提到的，是我們的授權模式。我們的任務是開發一套技術和智慧財產權，並將其轉移給我們的授權合作夥伴。與製造業商業模式相比，這項任務所需的支出較少。

Second is the collaboration with BW PowerCo and their contribution of resources and skilled personnel and third is the progression from Raptor to Cobra and the sterilization of the rest of the cell assembly and production process flow.

第二是與 BW PowerCo 的合作以及他們提供的資源和技術人員；第三是從 Raptor 到 Cobra 的進展以及其餘電池組裝和生產流程的消毒。

Thanks, Kevin. Siva, one final question for me. Focusing on the near term. Is there anything more you can share about QuantumScape's transition from smaller volume B0 sample production to higher-volume B1 sample production?

謝謝，凱文。Siva，我還有最後一個問題。著眼於短期。您還能分享更多關於 QuantumScape 從小批量 B0 樣品生產向大批量 B1 樣品生產的轉變的信息嗎？

Yes, the solid state separator is the core of our technology platform. And getting a gigawatt hour capable process for separate production up and running is the way we take this technology to a global scale. To scale separate production, all Cobra equipment has been turned on.

是的，固態分離器是我們技術平台的核心。而建立並運作能夠進行千兆瓦時單獨生產的製程是我們將這項技術推向全球規模的途徑。為了擴大單獨生產，所有 Cobra 設備都已啟動。

The heat treatment equipment has been released, the downstream equipment has been powered on. Our first goal for 2025 is to get the whole Cobra production flow into the baseline.

熱處理設備已出爐，下游設備已開啟。我們 2025 年的首要目標是讓整個 Cobra 生產流程達到基準。

When I walk around the line and compare the Cobra equipment to Raptor, it is really remarkable how much more efficient Cobra is. The innovation here is dramatic. State-of-the-art ceramics production can take days for heat treatment step.

當我走在生產線上並將 Cobra 設備與 Raptor 設備進行比較時，Cobra 的效率確實高得多，這真是令人驚訝。這裡的創新是驚人的。最先進的陶瓷生產可能需要幾天的時間進行熱處理步驟。

Raptor reduced this to hours. Cobra reduced this to a matter of minutes with a significant footprint reduction and separate quality improvements and we are quite pleased with the early results.

Raptor 將此時間縮短至數小時。Cobra 將這一過程縮短至幾分鐘，顯著減少了佔用空間並單獨提高了質量，我們對早期結果非常滿意。

We are now actively working on a more automated line that can match Cobra's output and produce the higher-volume B1 samples that will go into the demo phase of the launch next year. In this effort, engineers from PowerCo are working closely with us on getting higher volume cell production up and running.

我們目前正在積極致力於開發一條更自動化的生產線，以便與 Cobra 的產量相匹配，並生產出更大容量的 B1 樣品，這些樣品將於明年進入發布的演示階段。為了實現這一目標，PowerCo 的工程師們正與我們密切合作，以實現更大批量的電池生產。

Okay. Thanks so much. We're now ready to begin the live portion of today's call. Operator, please open up the line for questions.

好的。非常感謝。我們現在準備開始今天電話會議的現場直播部分。接線員，請打開電話線以回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Winnie Dong, Deutsche Bank.

(操作員指示) 德意志銀行的 Winnie Dong。

Thank you so much for taking my question. My question is around the active discussion with the two auto OEMs that you mentioned in the shareholder letter. I'm just curious to hear the kind of feedback you might be getting during the process.

非常感謝您回答我的問題。我的問題是關於您在股東信中提到的與兩家汽車原始設備製造商進行的積極討論。我只是好奇想聽聽您在過程中可能會得到什麼樣的回饋。

Because we're sort of into this uncertain environment with like EV policies and the scenarios around it since more engagement, same engagement and less engagement from your customer pipeline on unit holders.

因為我們有點陷入這種不確定的環境，例如 EV 政策及其周圍的情景，因為客戶管道與單位持有人的參與度更高、參與度相同、參與度更低。

Winnie, thank you. It's an important question. We have not seen any reduction, if anything, excitement about engagement with us. We feel and our customers feel as well that the long-term secular growth in electrification of transportation is still underway.

溫妮，謝謝你。這是一個重要的問題。我們沒有看到與我們合作的熱情有任何減弱，如果有的話。我們和我們的客戶都感覺到，交通電氣化的長期成長仍在進行中。

And on top of it, probably the impediments to the adoption of electric vehicles, revolve primarily around the batteries. And they see us as the longer-term solution to that problem. So the engagement with our customers continues to be robust. They are excited.

最重要的是，電動車普及的障礙可能主要集中在電池方面。他們認為我們是該問題的長期解決方案。因此我們與客戶的合作關係持續保持強勁。他們很興奮。

And as you would expect, these discussions involve deep technical diligence, working with senior executives in the company, making sure that the licensing business model works with them, making sure that there are other intellectual properness terms that are worked out. So these are all proceeding in parallel and these interactions have been very involved between the teams.

正如您所期望的，這些討論涉及深入的技術盡職調查，與公司高階主管合作，確保授權業務模式適合他們，確保制定其他智慧財產權條款。所以這些都是同時進行的，團隊之間的互動非常密切。

Got it. Very helpful. And then my follow-up question is on the joint team of 150-plus people that will be built out as part of the partnership with PowerCo. Maybe can you go into more specifics on what each team is bringing? And then the kind of deliverables that are expected out of the team in the next 12 months or so?

知道了。非常有幫助。然後我的後續問題是關於作為與 PowerCo 合作的一部分而將建立的 150 多人的聯合團隊。也許您可以更詳細地介紹一下每支球隊的表現？那麼，未來 12 個月左右，團隊預計能夠交付哪些成果呢？

And then of this 150 personnel, how many is from QuantumScape? And how many from PowerCo? Are you able to disclose that?

那麼這 150 名人員中有多少是來自 QuantumScape？那麼 PowerCo 有幾個？能透露一下嗎？

Let me give you a broader perspective on this and give you some specific answers. We have the basic technology platform in a good place when we delivered the B0 cell. It has the industry-leading combination of no compromise energy density, power density, particularly safety, low temperature operation and discharge power capability.

讓我從更廣泛的角度來看待這個問題並給出一些具體的答案。當我們交付B0單元時，我們的基本技術平台已經處於良好的狀態。它具有業界領先的不妥協的能量密度、功率密度、特別是安全性、低溫操作和放電功率能力的組合。

That is the starting point from which both teams are working on. The PowerCo team is particularly adept in manufacturing industrialization. So they are helping us with designing tools, making sure that the automation works very well in a large industrial setting. So that their focus is on the tools and tool development, and that's what they'll be responsible for along with us.

這是兩個團隊努力的起點。PowerCo 團隊尤其擅長製造業工業化。所以他們幫助我們設計工具，確保自動化在大型工業環境中運作良好。因此他們的重點是工具和工具開發，這也是他們將與我們一起負責的。

We continue to develop our core IP with respect to the separator, making sure that we have a truly scalable Cobra assets that's deployed. And we are approximately half and half in this effort in the number of people that are going to be here. Clearly, there are going to be a lot more of our people working on the core technology here, but in the development phase of the 150 people, we expect it to be half and half.

我們將繼續開發與分離器相關的核心 IP，確保我們擁有真正可擴展的 Cobra 資產並進行部署。參加這項活動的人數大約有一半是我們，另一半也是我們。顯然，我們將有更多的人在這裡致力於核心技術，但在 150 人的開發階段，我們預計比例將是一半一半。

Got it. That's very helpful. I'll pass it along. Thank you, guys.

知道了。這非常有幫助。我會傳達的。謝謝你們。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jordan Levy, Truist Securities.

喬丹·利維（Jordan Levy），Truist Securities。

Hi, all. It's Henry on for Jordan here. Thanks for all the color with this release. Maybe just to start by going to PowerCo. Should we be looking for any incremental updates or details throughout the year kind of concerning the partnership outside of the higher volume production equipment installation?

大家好。亨利代替喬丹上場。感謝本次發布的所有色彩。也許只是從去 PowerCo 開始。除了大批量生產設備安裝之外，我們是否應該在全年尋找有關合作夥伴關係的任何增量更新或詳細資訊？

Henry, I have to be absolutely careful I don't give away what PowerCo is planning on announcing. We are in very, very close contact, obviously, at all levels of the company. We have continuous interactions on this and very rigorous time lines that both companies' management constantly evaluate.

亨利，我必須絕對小心，不要洩露 PowerCo 計劃宣布的內容。顯然，我們與公司各個層面都保持著非常密切的聯繫。我們對此保持著持續的互動，並且制定了非常嚴格的時間表，兩家公司的管理層也不斷進行評估。

I'm very, very sure PowerCo and Volkswagen at the right time will make the announcements, and they will tell us what we can talk to you all outside. All I can tell you is the collaboration and the industrialization process between the teams is going very well.

我非常非常確定 PowerCo 和大眾會在適當的時候發佈公告，他們會告訴我們我們可以在外面跟大家談論什麼。我可以告訴你的是，團隊之間的合作和工業化進展非常順利。

Got you. Understood. And then maybe with the B1 cells, can you just talk maybe a little more to the performance improvement you all expect to see from those versus the B0? Is that kind of the focus on a liability? Or are there some other key metrics we should be looking at? Are you all looking for when B1 start to roll off?

明白了。明白了。然後也許是關於 B1 電池，您能否再多談談您期望從它們相對於 B0 看到的性能改進？這是否就是對責任的關切？或者我們還應該關注其他一些關鍵指標？你們想知道 B1 何時開始滾動嗎？

When we announced the B0 cell performance, you've got to see how good that cell is 844-watt hours per liter, extremely good power performance being able to charge in just over 12 minutes, discharge power at very, very high rates, being able to take it to minus 30-degrees C and wonderful safety performance.

當我們宣布 B0 電池性能時，您必須看到該電池的性能有多好：每公升 844 瓦時，極好的電源性能，能夠在短短 12 分鐘內充電，以非常非常高的速率放電，能夠將其降至零下 30 攝氏度，並且具有出色的安全性能。

So we are quite pleased with that samples performance. As you mentioned, our work right now is in the industrialization equity and taking it to a higher volume, more automated equipment, Cobra process coming in making sure that we are well documented in developing a transfer package, the technology package that we keep talking about that consists of a set of equipment, a set of materials, a set of recipes for running that material through that equipment, making sure that we have the software and metrology that wraps all this together, that's where the big focus is in getting it to the higher-volume B1 production. And those B1 samples, of course, will be going into supporting the demo program in 2026.

所以我們對於樣品的表現非常滿意。正如您所說，我們現在的工作是實現工業化，並將其推向更高產量、更自動化的設備，採用 Cobra 工藝，確保我們在開發轉移包方面有充分的記錄，我們一直在談論的技術包包括一套設備、一套材料、一套讓材料通過該設備的配方，確保我們擁有將所有這些整合在一起的軟體和計量技術，這就是將其生產更高的產品。當然，這些 B1 樣本將在 2026 年用於支援演示程序。

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

Jed Dorsheimer, William Blair.

傑德·多斯海默、威廉·布萊爾。

You have Mark Shooter for Jed Dorsheimer. Congrats for all the progress made in 2024. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on where the scale-up of PowerCo will be located. Given the IRA versus the Trump administration puts and takes. Does that influence where the scale will occur?

馬克舒特 (Mark Shooter) 飾演傑德多斯海默 (Jed Dorsheimer)。恭喜您在 2024 年取得的所有進步。我想知道您對 PowerCo 的擴大規模將設在何處有何想法。鑑於愛爾蘭共和軍與川普政府之間的利弊。這會影響規則發生的地點嗎？

Mark, I should not speak for PowerCo. But PowerCo has announced factories in 3 locations in Germany, in Spain and in Canada. They have not officially announced anything in the United States. And I would expect that they'll be thinking about it longer term, in light of all these announcements, just like you and I have been looking at. But I have to be very careful what I announced for PowerCo.

馬克，我不應該代表 PowerCo 發言。但 PowerCo 已宣佈在德國、西班牙和加拿大三處設立工廠。他們尚未在美國正式宣布任何消息。我希望他們能夠根據所有這些公告，從更長遠的角度考慮這個問題，就像你和我一直在關注的那樣。但我必須非常謹慎地對待 PowerCo 所發布的聲明。

Understood. Thanks for the color. That's helpful. Probably prior to that large scale up is your prospective launch customer. Can you give us any color on what level of scale is necessary for that? Are there any technical points along the way so you can point us to check progress on that prospective customer?

明白了。謝謝你的顏色。這很有幫助。可能在規模擴大之前，您就有潛在的首發客戶。您能告訴我們要實現這目標需要什麼等級的規模嗎？在此過程中是否存在任何技術要點，以便您能指導我們檢查該潛在客戶的進度嗎？

Yes. The B1 samples that we are going to be making in higher volumes here in San Jose go directly into the launch customers demo program. And those -- the sales performance themselves is already well proven as we increase the volume of production here with Cobra, that's what's going in. This is a high-profile project, relatively smaller volume so that they can go out and launch this. So you are going to hear again from the customer than from us.

是的。我們將在聖荷西大量生產 B1 樣品，這些樣品將直接進入首發客戶演示計畫。隨著我們透過 Cobra 增加產量，銷售業績本身已經得到充分證明，而這就是正在發生的事情。這是一個備受矚目的項目，規模相對較小，因此他們可以出去推出它。因此，您將會聽到更多客戶的聲音，而不是我們的聲音。

And we are being very careful in how we market this ourselves. It's not ours to say that.

我們在行銷方面非常謹慎。這並非是我們該說的。

Understood. Thank you very much.

明白了。非常感謝。

David Sunderland, Baird.

大衛桑德蘭，貝爾德。

Hey. Good afternoon, guys. Thanks for your time. Appreciate taking my questions. Just wanted to ask, first, could you maybe speak to your discussions or appetite for discussions, probably a better way to frame it up, that you might be having with Chinese OEMs specifically or if the current geopolitical landscape has shifted focus away from that market. And then I have one follow-up.

嘿。大家下午好。感謝您的時間。感謝您回答我的問題。我首先想問一下，您能否談談您與中國 OEM 之間的討論或討論意願，這可能是更好的說法，或者當前的地緣政治格局是否已將焦點從該市場轉移。然後我還有一個後續問題。

We have not come out and talked about who our OEM partners are outside of Volkswagen and PowerCo. Our existing relationship as we have talked about with six large OEMs cover a vast swaths of the automotive OEM landscape from pure-play EV players to high-volume producers to geographic diversity.

我們還沒有公開談論除了大眾和 PowerCo 之外誰是我們的 OEM 合作夥伴。正如我們所討論的，我們與六家大型 OEM 廠商現有的合作關係涵蓋了汽車 OEM 領域的廣泛領域，從純電動汽車廠商到大批量生產商，再到地域多元化。

We haven't explicitly come out and talked about any one customer. And again, maybe it looks like it's a theme that I'm repeating myself many times today because we're talking a lot about customers. I cannot be the one that talks about our customers' plan until they tell me that they can -- we can talk about.

我們還沒有明確地公開談論任何一位客戶。而且，也許這看起來像是我今天重複多次的主題，因為我們談論了很多關於客戶的事情。我不能談論客戶的計劃，除非他們告訴我他們可以——我們可以談論。

In the case of Volkswagen, PowerCo, they have released press releases with our name in it, we have jointly released statement. So it is easier for me to talk about Volkswagen PowerCo, but the rest of the six customers we haven't explicitly called out and told you who they are.

就大眾汽車和PowerCo一案而言，他們發布了有我們名字的新聞稿，我們也共同發表了聲明。因此，對我來說，談論大眾 PowerCo 比較容易，但其餘六家客戶我們還沒有明確點名告訴你們他們是誰。

Understood. I mean that makes sense. I don't mean to badger. Maybe just for one quick follow-up. Lots of announcements out there, mostly at lab scale with other people trying to develop technology that will revel yours.

明白了。我認為這是有道理的。我並不想糾纏你。也許只是為了一次快速的跟進。目前已經有很多公告，大部分都是在實驗室規模上，其他人正在嘗試開發出能令你驚嘆的技術。

But have you seen anyone in particular challenging your IP or plan catch-up, maybe if that's the right way to say it?

但是，您是否看到有人特別挑戰您的 IP 或計劃追趕，也許這是正確的說法？

I'm glad you asked this question. I mean, I don't get to brag often enough in these calls. We do hear companies do both ways. You can see a lot of announcements in the battery space. People who have undifferentiated technologies, shutting down their shop in large scale.

我很高興你問了這個問題。我的意思是，在這些電話中我沒有經常吹噓。我們確實聽說有些公司是同時採取這兩種方式的。您可以在電池領域看到很多公告。那些擁有無差別技術的人，大規模關閉他們的商店。

Smaller players switching their business models to go sell either materials or other things and some large players making announcements about solid state without giving data. We have put out what we consider is the goal standard for measurement and we show the data every time, whether it is on how we measure energy density, how we measure power, how do we measure temperature, what's the pressure used, what's the cycling up and cycling down rates, et cetera. We don't see anyone else reporting consistently data that would match what we have put. This is why I call ours the no-compromise solid-state battery and the QS continues to be the global leader in solid-state batteries.

規模較小的公司轉變商業模式，轉而銷售材料或其他產品，而一些規模較大的公司則發布有關固態產品的公告，但沒有提供數據。我們已經提出了我們認為的測量目標標準，並且每次都會展示數據，無論是如何測量能量密度、如何測量功率、如何測量溫度、使用的壓力是多少、循環上升和循環下降的速率是多少等等。我們沒有看到任何其他人報告與我們所提供的數據相符的數據。這就是為什麼我稱我們的電池為不妥協的固態電池，而 QS 繼續成為固態電池領域的全球領導者。

Thank you, Siva. Congrats.

謝謝你，Siva。恭喜。

(Operator Instructions) Mark Delaney, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指示）高盛的馬克·德萊尼。

Aman Gupta for Mark Delaney. Thanks for taking the questions. Just to get a better color on the 2026 launch, just to clarify, is that a kind of full launch? Or I think I mentioned -- you mentioned something about being a demo launch and kind of what does it mean to be launched? And then we think about that being in terms of like revenue recognition?

阿曼·古普塔 (Aman Gupta) 代表馬克·德萊尼 (Mark Delaney)。感謝您回答這些問題。只是為了更好地了解 2026 年的發射情況，只是為了澄清一下，這是一種全面發射嗎？或者我認為我提到過 - 您提到過有關演示發布的內容，以及發布意味著什麼？然後我們認為這是否類似於收入確認？

Kevin, do you want to take that?

凱文，你想拿著這個嗎？

Sure. To point you to a couple of comments in the letter and in our spoken word. This is a high vis-a-vis low-volume project. bringing our technology into a real-world application, we see as a major commercialization milestone that's in the licensing agreements with which we are targeting, the typical progression of things, the cash flows may occur ahead of revenue from licensing.

當然。向您指出信中和我們所說的話中的幾條評論。這是一個高容量相對於低容量的項目。將我們的技術投入到實際應用中，我們將其視為一個重要的商業化里程碑，這是我們所針對的許可協議中的一個重要內容，按照事物的典型發展過程，現金流可能先於許可收入出現。

Those cash flows can take many forms, including NRE payments, reimbursement of certain expenditures and licensing prepays and the licensing revenues would fall from the successful technology transfer and partner start of production.

這些現金流可以採取多種形式，包括 NRE 付款、某些支出的報銷和許可預付款，而許可收入則來自成功的技術轉移和合作夥伴開始生產。

Got it. And then just to kind of follow up, understood that PowerCo is helping with some of the industrialization and you're working towards this launch in '26. So how should we kind of think about the pace of CapEx and OpEx, noting that you've had quarter-on-quarter pretty decent step down in SG&A, but then somewhat step-up in R&D?

知道了。然後只是為了跟進，了解到 PowerCo 正在幫助實現一些工業化，而你們正在努力在 26 年實現這一目標。那麼，我們該如何看待資本支出和營運支出的速度，注意到銷售、一般及行政開支較上月下降幅度相當大，但研發支出卻上升？

That's a fantastic question. On the OpEx, you'd note that our entire guidance range this year is below actuals from full year 2024. And on CapEx, I can be even more expansive. The last few years, we've made pretty significant investments into our San Jose facilities. That includes the buildings, the equipment set.

這是一個非常棒的問題。在營運支出方面，您會注意到我們今年的整個指導範圍低於 2024 年全年的實際水準。在資本支出方面，我還可以更擴張。過去幾年，我們對聖荷西的工廠進行了相當大的投資。其中包括建築物、設備組。

And with success this year, if we hit our second and third goals, we'll be operating our Cobra process and further industrialize downstream processes. And we see that equipment set as being quite capable for QSE-5 tech transfer.

如果今年我們能夠成功實現第二和第三個目標，我們將運行 Cobra 製程並進一步實現下游製程的工業化。我們認為該設備完全能夠勝任 QSE-5 技術轉移。

After 2025, regarding the funding of CapEx, outside of subsequent product development needs, we expect any significant CapEx to be funded by partners as part of a commercialization program.

2025 年後，關於資本支出的資金，除了後續產品開發需求之外，我們預計任何重大資本支出都將由合作夥伴作為商業化計劃的一部分提供資金。

Thank you for that.

謝謝你。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I will turn the call back to Siva for closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。我將把電話轉回給 Siva，請他作最後發言。

Thank you, operator. With that, thank you for listening, and we look forward to updating you on further progress in the months to come.

謝謝您，接線生。感謝您的聆聽，我們期待在未來幾個月向您通報進一步的進展。

This concludes today's conference call. We thank you for joining. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。