Quantumscape Corp (QS) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to QuantumScape's First Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. John Saager, QuantumScape's Vice President Capital markets and FP&A you may begin your conference.

美好的一天，歡迎來到 QuantumScape 的 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議。 QuantumScape 的資本市場和 FP&A 副總裁 John Saager 您可以開始您的會議。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and thank you to everyone for joining QuantumScape's First Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. To supplement today's discussion, please go to our IR website at ir.quantumscape.com to view our shareholder letter.

謝謝你，運營商。下午好，感謝大家參加 QuantumScape 的 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議。為了補充今天的討論，請訪問我們的 IR 網站 ir.quantumscape.com 查看我們的股東信。

Before we begin, I want to call your attention to the safe harbor provision for forward-looking statements that is posted on our website as part of our quarterly update. Forward-looking statements generally relate to future events, future technology progress, or future financial or operating performance.

在我們開始之前，我想提請您注意作為我們季度更新的一部分發佈在我們網站上的前瞻性聲明的安全港條款。前瞻性陳述通常與未來事件、未來技術進步或未來財務或經營業績有關。

Our expectations and beliefs regarding these matters may not materialize. Actual results and financial periods are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected. There are risk factors that make cause actual results to differ materially from the content of our forward-looking statements for the reasons that we cite in our shareholder letter, Form 10-K and other SEC filings, including uncertainties posed by the difficulties in predicting future outcomes.

我們對這些事項的期望和信念可能不會實現。實際結果和財務期間受風險和不確定因素的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果與預期結果存在重大差異。由於我們在股東信函、10-K 表格和其他 SEC 備案文件中引用的原因，包括因預測未來困難而帶來的不確定性，存在導致實際結果與我們前瞻性陳述的內容存在重大差異的風險因素結果。

Joining us today will be QuantumScape's Co-Founder, CEO and Chairman, Jagdeep Singh; and our CFO, Kevin Hettrich. Jagdeep will provide a strategic update on the business, and then Kevin will cover the financial results and our outlook in more detail.

今天加入我們的是 QuantumScape 的聯合創始人、首席執行官兼董事長 Jagdeep Singh；以及我們的首席財務官 Kevin Hettrich。 Jagdeep 將提供有關業務的戰略更新，然後 Kevin 將更詳細地介紹財務結果和我們的展望。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Jagdeep.

有了這個，我想把電話轉給 Jagdeep。

Thank you, John. I'd like to begin with an update on customer prototype testing. As you may recall, last year, we shipped a variety of prototype cells for testing the prospective automotive and consumer electronics customers, including 24-layer A0s to the automotive sector, and zero externally applied pressure cells to the consumer electronics sector. We're happy to report today the planned testing of 24-layer A0 prototype cells at one automotive customer is now complete. And in line with what we reported in our last shareholder letter, most cells performed very well, meeting performance targets on fast charge and generally showing good cycling capacity retention and high Coulombic efficiency, with capacity loss of less than 1% per 100 cycles. However, we have work to do to improve reliability as we transition from prototype to commercial product.

謝謝你，約翰。我想從客戶原型測試的更新開始。您可能還記得，去年，我們運送了各種原型電池用於測試潛在的汽車和消費電子客戶，包括面向汽車行業的 24 層 A0 電池，以及面向消費電子行業的零外加壓力電池。我們今天很高興地報告，計劃在一家汽車客戶處進行的 24 層 A0 原型電池測試現已完成。並且與我們在上一封股東信中報告的一致，大多數電池表現非常好，達到了快速充電的性能目標，並且通常表現出良好的循環容量保持和高庫侖效率，每 100 次循環的容量損失低於 1%。然而，在我們從原型過渡到商業產品的過程中，我們需要努力提高可靠性。

Similarly, on the consumer electronics front, we can report that customer testing of zero externally applied pressure single-layer prototype cells is also complete, with the cells generally performing very well on a broad range of electrical performance and characterization tests, including cycle life, resistance, storage life, and tests at multiple rates and temperatures, and here too, the cells displayed less than 1% capacity loss per 100 cycles. So as I mentioned, we have work to do on reliability. The results of these independent tests provide validation of what we've seen in our own labs.

同樣，在消費電子產品方面，我們可以報告零外部施加壓力的單層原型電池的客戶測試也已完成，這些電池在廣泛的電氣性能和特性測試中通常表現非常好，包括循環壽命，電阻、儲存壽命以及在多種速率和溫度下進行的測試，在這裡，電池每 100 次循環的容量損失也小於 1%。所以正如我提到的，我們在可靠性方面有很多工作要做。這些獨立測試的結果證實了我們在自己的實驗室中看到的結果。

We continue to see consumer electronics as an attractive market and our zero externally applied pressure capability gives us optionality to pursue consumer electronics alongside our automotive development efforts as we continue to engage with some of the largest consumer electronics players in the world.

我們繼續將消費電子產品視為一個有吸引力的市場，我們的零外部施加壓力能力使我們可以選擇在我們的汽車開發工作的同時追求消費電子產品，因為我們繼續與世界上一些最大的消費電子產品公司合作。

On the reliability front, we've already identified and begun executing a number of initiatives to improve the quality and uniformity of our materials and processes, which we believe will lead to better reliability as we continue to get closer to a commercial product. As an example, a material used during the separator heat treatment step was identified as a source of particle contamination, and we've begun the transition to a different material and are already seeing encouraging results in reducing particle count and improving quality and consistency.

在可靠性方面，我們已經確定並開始執行一系列舉措來提高我們材料和工藝的質量和均勻性，我們相信隨著我們繼續接近商業產品，這將帶來更好的可靠性。例如，分離器熱處理步驟中使用的一種材料被確定為顆粒污染源，我們已經開始過渡到不同的材料，並且已經看到在減少顆粒數量和提高質量和一致性方面取得了令人鼓舞的結果。

Next, I'd like to give an update on our technical development. On our last earnings call, we laid out the key goals we've targeted for 2023, which were designed to facilitate our transition from technology demonstration to commercial product. One of these goals was to introduce a higher cathode loading, which contributes to better energy density. There are 2 main challenges with making higher-loading cathodes. The first is to manufacture these cathodes with the necessary quality and consistency, while maintaining the ability to deliver sufficient power.

接下來，我想介紹一下我們的技術發展情況。在我們上次的財報電話會議上，我們制定了 2023 年的主要目標，旨在促進我們從技術演示到商業產品的過渡。這些目標之一是引入更高的陰極負載，這有助於提高能量密度。製造高負載陰極有兩個主要挑戰。首先是製造具有必要質量和一致性的這些陰極，同時保持提供足夠功率的能力。

The second is to maintain performance even at the higher current densities that go along with higher cathode loading, approximately 60% higher than the previous cathodes. We're, therefore, excited to report that we've already made and tested 2-layer unit cells with these higher-loading cathodes, and in our shareholder letter, we published data showing very good cycling capacity retention at high, 1C or 1-hour average charge/discharge rates, consistent with the data we previously published from sales with lower loading cathodes. In addition, we also showed data demonstrating sustained discharge rates of approximately 5C at 25 degrees Celsius and as high as 8C 45 degrees Celsius, while still accessing approximately 50% of the battery's nominal capacity.

第二個是即使在更高的電流密度下也能保持性能，伴隨著更高的陰極負載，比以前的陰極高約 60%。因此，我們很高興地報告說，我們已經用這些更高負載的陰極製造並測試了 2 層單元電池，並且在我們的股東信中，我們發布的數據顯示在高、1C 或 1 -小時平均充電/放電率，與我們之前發布的低負載陰極銷售數據一致。此外，我們還展示了數據，表明在 25 攝氏度時持續放電率約為 5C，在 45 攝氏度時高達 8C，同時仍可獲得電池標稱容量的約 50%。

When it comes to power performance, we believe an important benefit of our solid-state lithium metal system is the ability to deliver high rates of power even in a high energy cell design, a combination that lends itself well to high-performance applications.

在功率性能方面，我們認為我們的固態鋰金屬系統的一個重要優勢是即使在高能量電池設計中也能提供高功率，這種組合非常適合高性能應用。

Now I'd like to discuss our progress on product development. First, a bit of background on the product side. As a result of our customer engagement across the automotive and consumer electronics sectors, we believe there is a significant opportunity for a cell that combines high energy density and high power. To enable a commercial product that can serve either consumer or our automotive applications on the shortest timetable, we're targeting a single-track dual-purpose design that we believe presents an attractive value proposition for both automotive and consumer electronics applications.

現在我想談談我們在產品開發方面的進展。首先，介紹一下產品方面的背景。由於我們在汽車和消費電子領域的客戶參與，我們相信結合高能量密度和高功率的電池存在重大機會。為了使商業產品能夠在最短的時間內為消費者或我們的汽車應用提供服務，我們的目標是單軌雙用途設計，我們認為它為汽車和消費電子應用提供了一個有吸引力的價值主張。

We now have a target for our first commercial product. A 24-layer cell with a capacity of approximately 5 amp-hours. This is in a similar capacity range as the 2170 battery used in several leading EVs. We believe this initial product design makes the most efficient use of our resources and represents the fastest path to market, while delivering a product that presents a compelling combination of energy and power. Importantly, this design uses the same layer count and similar separator area as a 24-layer A0 prototype cells that we've already shipped to customers, derisking these aspects of the product development process. This allows us to focus on integrating the key remaining functionality, including a higher loading cathode and more efficient packaging as well as improved reliability. All key goals we set out for 2023.

我們現在有了第一個商業產品的目標。容量約為 5 安培小時的 24 層電池。這與幾款領先電動汽車中使用的 2170 電池處於相似的容量範圍內。我們相信，這種最初的產品設計最有效地利用了我們的資源，代表了最快的上市途徑，同時提供了一種令人信服的能量和動力組合的產品。重要的是，該設計使用與我們已經交付給客戶的 24 層 A0 原型電池相同的層數和相似的分隔區域，從而消除了產品開發過程中這些方面的風險。這使我們能夠專注於集成關鍵的剩餘功能，包括更高負載的陰極和更高效的封裝以及更高的可靠性。我們為 2023 年設定的所有關鍵目標。

We also expect this first product to take advantage of our new fast separator production process. Now that we have line of sight to this first commercial product, we can begin finalizing equipment designs for upgraded higher volume production on our consolidated QS-0 pre-pilot line. As a reminder, our current production plan for QS-0 is based on our new disruptively faster separator production process.

我們還希望這第一款產品能夠利用我們新的快速分離器生產工藝。現在我們已經看到了這個第一個商業產品，我們可以開始完成設備設計，以便在我們整合的 QS-0 預試生產線上進行升級的更高批量生產。提醒一下，我們當前的 QS-0 生產計劃是基於我們新的顛覆性更快的分離器生產工藝。

We currently plan for deployment of this fast process in 2 stages. The first stage targeted for later this year is designed to triple throughput using similar equipment to our existing lines. The second stage targets even higher throughput to support higher volume QS-0 production and requires new equipment. We can now report that the installation of our first stage equipment is already underway, and we aim to complete installation, qualify the equipment and deploy this first stage into initial production this year. We're also already operating prototype versions of our second stage equipment and are working towards final equipment specification.

我們目前計劃分兩個階段部署這個快速流程。第一階段的目標是在今年晚些時候使用與我們現有生產線類似的設備將吞吐量提高三倍。第二階段的目標是更高的吞吐量以支持更大批量的 QS-0 生產並需要新設備。我們現在可以報告說，我們的第一階段設備的安裝已經在進行中，我們的目標是在今年完成安裝、驗證設備並將第一階段部署到初始生產中。我們也已經在運行第二階段設備的原型版本，並正在努力製定最終設備規格。

I'd like to close with a word about the big picture strategic outlook for the company. 2023 is about turning the corner from toward a commercial product. This represents a phase transition both in the history of our company and in the nature of our development work. As always, we emphasize us continuing to improve quality, consistency and throughput of our manufacturing processes and increasing reliability of finished cells is not a trivial task. It requires an ongoing and systematic process of identifying and addressing issues, working with material and equipment suppliers and iterating through new processes and cell designs.

最後，我想談談公司的總體戰略前景。 2023 年即將轉為商業產品。這代表了我們公司歷史和開發工作性質的階段性轉變。一如既往，我們強調我們將繼續提高製造工藝的質量、一致性和產量，並提高成品電池的可靠性並非易事。它需要一個持續的、系統的過程來識別和解決問題，與材料和設備供應商合作，並迭代新的過程和電池設計。

Yet facing the challenges of scaling up is also a rare privilege. Historically, many emerging battery technologies fail well before this point. often because the basic electrochemical system does not have the intrinsic capabilities necessary to meet customer requirements. Therefore, it's always motivating to see results from customer testing that validate the core capabilities of our technology.

然而，面對擴大規模的挑戰也是一種難得的特權。從歷史上看，許多新興電池技術在此之前就已經失敗。通常是因為基本的電化學系統不具備滿足客戶要求所必需的內在能力。因此，看到驗證我們技術核心功能的客戶測試結果總是令人鼓舞。

Based on results like these, we believe it's possible to produce the commercial product using our solid state lithium metal platform that simultaneously achieves high energy density and high power capability. Starting with a 24-layer approximately 5-amp power cell. We believe this compelling combination is made possible by the intrinsic capability of our technology. But we have much more work to do as we progress through our road map. We believe the work we've done so far has established a solid foundation and that we're closer than ever to our first-generation solid-state battery product.

基於這些結果，我們相信有可能使用我們的固態鋰金屬平台生產商業產品，同時實現高能量密度和高功率能力。從 24 層大約 5 安培的電池開始。我們相信，我們技術的內在能力使這種引人注目的組合成為可能。但是隨著路線圖的推進，我們還有很多工作要做。我們相信我們迄今為止所做的工作已經奠定了堅實的基礎，我們比以往任何時候都更接近我們的第一代固態電池產品。

Thank you for your support, and we look forward to reporting on our continued progress next quarter. With that, I'll hand things over to Kevin.

感謝您的支持，我們期待在下個季度報告我們的持續進展。有了這個，我會把事情交給凱文。

Thank you, Jagdeep. In the first quarter, our GAAP operating expenses were $110 million. Our GAAP net loss was $105 million. Cash operating expenses defined as operating expenses less stock-based compensation and depreciation were $62 million. This level of spend was in line with our expectations entering the quarter. For full year 2023, we reiterate our guidance for cash operating expenses to be between $225 million and $275 million. CapEx in the first quarter was approximately $28 million. First quarter CapEx was primarily directed towards facility spend for our consolidated QS-0 preproduction line. We also procure equipment for our fast separator production process and cell safety test lab. For the remainder of the year, our CapEx will primarily go towards facility work and equipment for QS-0. We reiterate our guidance for full year 2023 CapEx to be between $100 million and $150 million.

謝謝你，賈格迪普。第一季度，我們的 GAAP 運營費用為 1.1 億美元。我們的 GAAP 淨虧損為 1.05 億美元。現金運營費用定義為運營費用減去基於股票的補償和折舊為 6200 萬美元。這一支出水平符合我們進入本季度的預期。對於 2023 年全年，我們重申我們對現金運營支出的指導意見在 2.25 億美元至 2.75 億美元之間。第一季度的資本支出約為 2800 萬美元。第一季度資本支出主要用於我們合併後的 QS-0 預生產線的設施支出。我們還為我們的快速隔膜生產工藝和電池安全測試實驗室採購設備。在今年剩餘時間裡，我們的資本支出將主要用於 QS-0 的設施工作和設備。我們重申我們對 2023 年全年資本支出的指導在 1 億至 1.5 億美元之間。

We ended Q1 with just over $1 billion in liquidity. We continue to make progress on ongoing cost savings initiatives and resource optimization. We reiterate our cash runway is forecast to extend into the second half of 2025. Any funds raised from capital markets activity, including, under the at the market prospectus supplement filed on February 28, would further extend this cash runway.

我們以超過 10 億美元的流動資金結束了第一季度。我們繼續在持續的成本節約計劃和資源優化方面取得進展。我們重申，我們的現金跑道預計將延長至 2025 年下半年。從資本市場活動籌集的任何資金，包括根據 2 月 28 日提交的市場招股說明書補充，將進一步延長這條現金跑道。

With that, I'll pass it over to you, John.

有了這個，我會把它傳遞給你，約翰。

Thanks, Kevin. We'll begin today's Q&A portion with a few questions we've received from investors or that I believe investors would be interested in. Jagdeep, there's a perception that some players in the industry are moving to larger cell formats. Why have you chosen 24 layers or 5-amp hours as the size of your first commercial cell.

謝謝，凱文。我們將從投資者那裡收到的一些問題或我相信投資者會感興趣的問題開始今天的問答部分。Jagdeep，人們認為該行業的一些參與者正在轉向更大的電池格式。為什麼您選擇 24 層或 5 安培小時作為您的第一個商業電池的尺寸。

Yes. So we've seen OEM interest in both large and small cells. But what everyone is interested in is energy density. Over time, we plan to make both small and large cells. But for our first product, we want to minimize time to market. We believe our 24-layer 5-amp power design has the potential to deliver energy densities and power capability higher than cells used in many leading EVs today. So we think this design already offers a compelling value proposition. By using the same layer count and similar separator area of the A0 samples that we've already shipped, we believe we can minimize the amount of additional work required to get to market. And finally, this product also provides us the flexibility to serve the consumer electronics sector.

是的。所以我們已經看到 OEM 對大型和小型電池的興趣。但是大家感興趣的是能量密度。隨著時間的推移，我們計劃同時製造小型和大型電池。但對於我們的第一個產品，我們希望最大限度地縮短上市時間。我們相信我們的 24 層 5 安培電源設計有潛力提供比當今許多領先電動汽車中使用的電池更高的能量密度和功率容量。所以我們認為這種設計已經提供了一個引人注目的價值主張。通過使用我們已經發貨的 A0 樣品的相同層數和類似的分離器面積，我們相信我們可以最大限度地減少上市所需的額外工作量。最後，該產品還為我們提供了服務於消費電子領域的靈活性。

Great. Thanks for that helpful context. There's been a number of announcements in recent months regarding new battery technologies, including 500 watt hours per kilogram announcements from some players as well as sodium ion batteries. How does announcements affect your market outlook.

偉大的。感謝您提供的有用信息。近幾個月來有許多關於新電池技術的公告，包括一些參與者發布的每公斤 500 瓦時的公告以及鈉離子電池。公告如何影響您的市場前景。

So we're pleased to see industry players recognize the importance of higher energy densities and the need for new chemistries to deliver this capability. Of the 2 recent announcements, we've yet to see any data showing performance on high rate long cycle life room temperature test. And of course, without the data, it's very hard to evaluate any claims. Regarding sodium ion, some of the figures we've seen suggested has a very low energy density. So it's likely unsuitable for high-value automotive applications. In addition, note that if you change the Ion that's transporting charge through the cell from lithium to something else, you're changing the entire stack, including the cathode, the anode and the electrolyte, potentially introducing unknown or unexpected materials interactions in addition to requiring an entirely new supply chain. We don't know what the specific mature supply chain is for this class of battery.

因此，我們很高興看到行業參與者認識到更高能量密度的重要性以及需要新的化學物質來提供這種能力。在最近的 2 項公告中，我們尚未看到任何數據顯示高倍率長循環壽命室溫測試的性能。當然，如果沒有數據，就很難評估任何說法。關於鈉離子，我們看到的一些數字表明能量密度非常低。因此它可能不適合高價值的汽車應用。此外，請注意，如果您將通過電池傳輸電荷的離子從鋰更改為其他物質，您將改變整個堆棧，包括陰極、陽極和電解質，除了需要一個全新的供應鏈。我們不知道這類電池的具體成熟供應鍊是什麼。

Thanks, Jagdeep. Kevin, one question for you. Can you talk to how the company is navigating the continued macroeconomic uncertainty and the banking system strain that we witnessed in the quarter.

謝謝，賈格迪普。凱文，問你一個問題。您能談談公司如何應對持續的宏觀經濟不確定性和我們在本季度目睹的銀行系統壓力嗎？

Yes. Happy to. 4 points I'd like to make. First, I'd like to highlight the strength of our balance sheet. We ended the quarter with just over $1 billion in liquidity. We reiterated guidance in our shareholder letter that we continue to see our cash runway extending into the second half of 2025. Additionally, concurrently with the filing of our annual report at the end of February, we filed a $400 million at-the-market prospectus supplement. Any proceeds from this would further extend our cash runway.

是的。高興。我想提出 4 點。首先，我想強調我們資產負債表的實力。本季度結束時，我們的流動資金剛剛超過 10 億美元。我們在致股東的信中重申了指導意見，即我們將繼續看到我們的現金跑道延伸到 2025 年下半年。此外，在 2 月底提交年度報告的同時，我們還提交了 4 億美元的上市招股說明書補充。由此產生的任何收益將進一步擴大我們的現金跑道。

Second, we remain prudent on the use of funds. We continue to make progress against a number of internal cost-saving initiatives focusing on both OpEx and CapEx. Third, our investment policy prioritizes the preservation of principal and liquidity. We invested our treasury funds in what we view as a conservative manner, both in terms of duration, less than 18 months weighted average maturity and credit quality. Greater than 75% of our portfolio is invested in the U.S. government obligations and AAA-rated money market funds.

二是審慎使用資金。我們繼續在一些側重於運營支出和資本支出的內部成本節約計劃方面取得進展。第三，我們的投資政策優先考慮保本和流動性。我們以我們認為保守的方式投資我們的國庫基金，無論是在期限、不到 18 個月的加權平均期限和信用質量方面。我們超過 75% 的投資組合投資於美國政府債券和 AAA 級貨幣市場基金。

Finally, regarding institutional relationships, we use multiple banks for treasury management and following SVB insolvency have added additional operating relationships as well.

最後，關於機構關係，我們使用多家銀行進行資金管理，並且在 SVB 破產後也增加了額外的運營關係。

Thanks, Kevin. Jagdeep, turning back to you. Can you give investors a sense for the level of quality quantitate needs to make the system work with higher levels of reliability.

謝謝，凱文。 Jagdeep，回過頭來看你。您能否讓投資者了解質量水平的量化需求，以使系統以更高的可靠性水平運行。

Yes. As we've said before, we believe reliability is a function of defect identity, and defect identity is a function of quality and consistency, which are in turn functions of timeliness and process control. As we move to more automated tools, we tend to see improvements in all these fronts. To give you some context, some industries such as semiconductor and the magnetic spinning disk storage industries require very high levels of cleanliness and process control. For example, the magnetic storage industry, a very high-volume industry, which ships millions of hard disk drives every year, has heads that flows nanometers above the surface of the platters, which are spinning at thousands of RPM. This requires cleanliness on the order of nanometers. By contrast, we believe we require cleanliness on the order of microns, 1,000x less stringent. As we continue moving to more automated tools, and continue to identify and resolve sources of defects, we believe we'll be able to further improve our reliability.

是的。正如我們之前所說，我們認為可靠性是缺陷識別的函數，而缺陷識別是質量和一致性的函數，而質量和一致性又是及時性和過程控制的函數。隨著我們轉向更加自動化的工具，我們往往會看到所有這些方面的改進。為您提供一些背景信息，一些行業（如半導體和磁旋轉磁盤存儲行業）需要非常高水平的清潔度和過程控制。例如，磁存儲行業是一個產量非常大的行業，每年出貨數百萬個硬盤驅動器，磁頭在盤片表面上方流動納米級，盤片以數千 RPM 旋轉。這需要納米級的清潔度。相比之下，我們認為我們需要微米量級的清潔度，嚴格程度要低 1,000 倍。隨著我們繼續轉向更加自動化的工具，並繼續識別和解決缺陷來源，我們相信我們將能夠進一步提高我們的可靠性。

Okay. Thanks so much, guys. We're now ready to begin the live portion of today's call. Operator, please open up the line for questions.

好的。非常感謝，伙計們。我們現在準備開始今天電話會議的直播部分。接線員，請打開問題熱線。

(Operator Instructions) The first question is from the line of Jordan Levy with Truist.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自 Jordan Levy with Truist。

Congrats on the design decisions, next step for you all. Maybe to start, I just wanted to see if you could help us benchmark the cell design you're targeting versus some of the cells available in the market today, maybe the 2170 or 4860 in terms of what EV battery performance metrics could theoretically look like down the line once you get things scaled up?

祝賀設計決定，下一步是你們所有人。也許首先，我只是想看看您是否可以幫助我們將您所針對的電池設計與當今市場上的一些電池進行基準測試，也許 2170 或 4860 就電動汽車電池性能指標在理論上看起來像什麼一旦你把事情擴大規模，就下線？

Yes, absolutely. So as we mentioned in our letter, the 2170 that we're familiar with has an energy density somewhere in the low 700s in terms of watt hours per liter. And we believe that even with our 24-layer design, with the same area separators or similar area separators to what we've already shipped with our A0, we can exceed that number. I think the other thing to keep in mind is that we believe not only can we exceed those energy densities, but we believe that we can do that while maintaining high levels of power. And that combination, we think, is relatively unique. And so we think there's a compelling value proposition with that 24-layer cell, 5-amp hours, which really allows to minimize the amount of additional work that would be required if we were to change the layer count or change the area dramatically or other things like that, which in turn then allows us to basically derisk those parts of the development process and get to market as quickly as possible.

是的，一點沒錯。因此，正如我們在信中提到的那樣，我們熟悉的 2170 的能量密度以每升瓦時計算在 700 左右。我們相信，即使採用我們的 24 層設計，使用與我們已經隨 A0 一起發貨的相同或相似的區域分隔符，我們也可以超過這個數字。我認為要記住的另一件事是，我們相信我們不僅可以超過這些能量密度，而且我們相信我們可以在保持高水平功率的同時做到這一點。我們認為，這種組合是相對獨特的。因此，我們認為 24 層電池具有令人信服的價值主張，5 安培小時，如果我們要改變層數或顯著改變面積或其他，它確實可以最大限度地減少所需的額外工作量諸如此類的事情，這反過來又使我們能夠從根本上消除開發過程中那些部分的風險，並儘快進入市場。

And then maybe a separate question. If you could just give us a little more detail on the process and steps for scaling up the next production phase of QS-0, I think you said 3x the capacity and what remains to be done before bringing that faster process line online? And then subsequently what the steps are to get to that next expansion following that.

然後可能是一個單獨的問題。如果你能給我們更多關於擴大 QS-0 下一生產階段的過程和步驟的細節，我想你說的是 3 倍的產能，以及在將更快的生產線上線之前還有哪些工作要做？然後接下來要採取哪些步驟才能進行下一次擴展。

Absolutely. Yes. This is an important question. And as you know, we're pretty excited about. So as you might recall, we are already using a continuous slow process for our separate area production for the cell themselves. And what we've been able to do is come up with a new process that we think is disruptively better. That process can take tools that are essentially very similar to the equipment we already have that we're using today, and as we mentioned, triple the throughput. That particular -- that's the first stage of this new process. That first stage, we are in the process of deploying right now. The tools are in-house. They're being configured. And we currently plan to have production off of that line starting this year.

絕對地。是的。這是一個重要的問題。如您所知，我們非常興奮。因此，您可能還記得，我們已經在為電池本身的單獨區域生產使用連續的緩慢過程。我們能夠做的是提出一個我們認為顛覆性更好的新流程。該過程可以使用與我們今天使用的設備本質上非常相似的工具，並且正如我們提到的那樣，使吞吐量增加三倍。那個特別的 - 這是這個新過程的第一階段。第一階段，我們現在正在進行部署。這些工具是內部的。他們正在配置。我們目前計劃從今年開始停產該生產線。

Now the exciting thing about this new process, though, is that there is a second stage, where we can take the same general principle that we're using for this process and scale it up to even higher throughputs. And now to get those higher throughputs, there is new equipment that's required. And we're currently in the process of specifying the tool and process steps for that new equipment. That equipment, we expect will be operational in-house and operational before the end of 2025 in time for our higher-volume B-sample production.

不過，現在關於這個新過程的令人興奮的事情是，有第二個階段，我們可以採用與我們用於此過程的相同的一般原則，並將其擴展到更高的吞吐量。現在要獲得更高的吞吐量，就需要新設備。我們目前正在為新設備指定工具和工藝步驟。我們預計該設備將在內部運行，並在 2025 年底之前及時運行，以便我們進行更大批量的 B 樣品生產。

The next question is from the line of Winnie Dong with Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的Winnie Dong。

My first question is with the 24-layer A0 prototype now complete with one auto customer, congrats on that. Like what's sort of like the next step there in terms of completing testing with the other customers before you can transition to the next phase, which is B-sample? And then how far are you from completing this testing with the rest of the OEM?

我的第一個問題是 24 層 A0 原型現在完成了一個汽車客戶，恭喜。在您可以過渡到下一階段（即 B 樣本）之前，就完成與其他客戶的測試而言，下一步有點像什麼？那麼您距離與其他 OEM 一起完成此測試還有多遠？

Yes. So we are pleased, as we mentioned in the letter with the results of the testing. We pointed out that the Coulombic efficiency, the capacity retention, the fast charge tests all went well. Obviously, we pointed out that there's more to do on reliability. No one expects an a-sample prototype to be as viable as a production commercially shipping part. But overall, we're quite pleased with the results. From here, what we are working on is taking the key items we mentioned as our goals in our last shareholder letter. So the higher loading cathode, the more efficient packaging of the sample. The new films coming off our higher throughput film production line, integrating all those -- all that functionality into our samples, and then obviously working on other liabilities.

是的。所以我們很高興，正如我們在信中提到的測試結果。我們指出，庫侖效率、容量保持率、快充測試都非常順利。顯然，我們指出在可靠性方面還有更多工作要做。沒有人期望樣品原型與生產商業運輸部件一樣可行。但總的來說，我們對結果非常滿意。從這裡開始，我們正在努力將我們在上一封股東信中提到的關鍵項目作為我們的目標。因此，負載陰極越高，樣品的包裝效率越高。新電影來自我們更高產量的電影生產線，將所有這些 - 所有這些功能集成到我們的樣品中，然後顯然致力於其他責任。

So those will be the -- those stemming functionality would be the basis of subsequent deliveries to our customers, and we expect to be working on that through when we have the B-sample. We expect to have the -- as we said before, lower-volume B samples off of the lower throughput production lines sometime next year in '24. And then the first B-sample off of the higher throughput production lines before '25.

因此，這些將是 - 那些詞幹功能將成為後續向我們的客戶交付的基礎，我們希望在我們擁有 B 樣本時一直致力於此。我們希望——正如我們之前所說，明年某個時候在 24 年的某個時候，從較低吞吐量的生產線中取出少量 B 樣品。然後是 25 年前從更高吞吐量生產線中取出的第一個 B 樣品。

Got it. That's very helpful. And then second question is for Kevin. I was wondering if you can sort of provide additional color on the internal cost initiatives that you were alluding to in terms of CapEx and OpEx?

知道了。這很有幫助。然後第二個問題是凱文。我想知道您是否可以為您在資本支出和運營支出方面提到的內部成本計劃提供額外的顏色？

Thank you, Winnie. Yes, I would say that we've continued to make progress in the quarter, both on OpEx and CapEx areas, not so much progress that we would change our guidance. But it is absolutely an area where our FP&A team is actively working with our cost center owners. There's a real commitment to being prudent with the strong balance sheet that we have, and that isn't lost on any of the leaders on the team.

謝謝你，溫妮。是的，我會說我們在本季度在運營支出和資本支出領域繼續取得進展，但進展不大以至於我們會改變我們的指導。但這絕對是我們的 FP&A 團隊與我們的成本中心所有者積極合作的領域。我們真正致力於謹慎對待我們擁有的強大資產負債表，並且團隊中的任何領導者都不會失去這一點。

The next question is from the line of Chris Snyder with UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的 Chris Snyder。

Appreciate all the updates this afternoon. So again, on the 24-layer 5-amp hour cell, you guys said it could be used for both auto and consumer. So I understand that there's better synergies with that and it would be maybe the fastest path to market. Does this suggest that the company is no longer pursuing the plan of scaling the cell up to kind of several dozen layers? Or is that still in the plans so being kind of pushed, right?

感謝今天下午的所有更新。再一次，在 24 層 5 安培小時的電池上，你們說它可以用於汽車和消費者。所以我知道與之有更好的協同作用，這可能是最快的上市途徑。這是否表明該公司不再追求將電池擴展到幾十層的計劃？或者這仍在計劃中，所以有點被推動，對吧？

No. As we've mentioned, we, over time, plan to make both large and small cells. And there's nothing inherent about our technology that causes us to not be able to do that. We just think that there's a lot of value to us, to our investors, to our customers of getting a product to market as quickly as possible. And so our goal here has been to say what can we need to take what we've already shipped, which, of course, is the A0 sample with 24 layers in a certain area and commercialize that.

不。正如我們所提到的，隨著時間的推移，我們計劃同時製造大電池和小電池。我們的技術並沒有什麼固有的因素導致我們無法做到這一點。我們只是認為盡快將產品推向市場對我們、我們的投資者和我們的客戶來說具有很大的價值。因此，我們在這裡的目標是說明我們需要什麼來獲取我們已經發貨的東西，當然，這是在特定區域具有 24 層的 A0 樣品並將其商業化。

And so what this first shipment does for us is it allows us to leverage the 24 layer count that we've already done, leverage the -- leverage area that's similar to what we've already shipped and focus just on the things that I mentioned earlier that are part of our '23 goals. So add to that cell, the higher loading cathode which increases energy density. Add to that cell more efficient packaging, which also increase the energy density.

因此，這第一批貨物對我們的作用是，它允許我們利用我們已經完成的 24 層計數，利用與我們已經交付的類似的槓桿區域，並專注於我提到的事情早些時候，這是我們 23 年目標的一部分。因此，在該電池中添加更高負載的陰極，這會增加能量密度。添加到該電池更有效的包裝，這也增加了能量密度。

Add to that cell, the new films coming off of a more scalable film production line, which increases the capacity and throughput of the production line, and then couple that with the improvements we're making on reliability. And those things combined, we believe, get us to something that looks a lot more like a commercial product and does that in the fastest possible way. The fact that, that product, given the capacity that it has and the energy density that it has, appeals to both the automotive sector and the consumer sector, is, in some ways, a bonus because we can now take that same product and have a single track dual purpose design.

添加到該單元，新電影來自更具可擴展性的電影生產線，這增加了生產線的容量和吞吐量，然後將其與我們在可靠性方面所做的改進相結合。我們相信，這些東西結合起來，會讓我們得到一些看起來更像商業產品的東西，並以盡可能快的方式做到這一點。考慮到該產品的容量和能量密度，該產品對汽車行業和消費行業都有吸引力，這一事實在某種程度上是一種獎勵，因為我們現在可以採用相同的產品並擁有單軌兩用設計。

So all of the 2170s that are used in, obviously, many of the best selling EVs today are about -- have about approximately 4 to 5-amp hours of capacity. And what we're talking about is about 5-amp hours of capacity. So the same capacity range as today's 2170s, which obviously are high-volume cells. And the energy density that we think we can get out of these 24 5-amp hour cells, we think is higher than today's 2170s. And then that's not even taking into account the fact that we think we can get power density.

因此，顯然，當今許多最暢銷的電動汽車中使用的所有 2170 都大約有大約 4 到 5 安培小時的容量。我們所說的是大約 5 安培小時的容量。所以與今天的 2170s 具有相同的容量範圍，這顯然是大容量電池。我們認為我們可以從這些 24 個 5 安培小時的電池中獲得的能量密度，我們認為高於今天的 2170 年代。然後這甚至沒有考慮到我們認為我們可以獲得功率密度這一事實。

So when you couple all those things together, our conclusion is that you have a really compelling first product that can serve multiple markets, that can be better than what is -- the alternatives that are available and that can really optimize time to market without requiring additional development. We for sure plan to do larger cells over time. This is simply a question of how we can get to market as quickly as possible.

因此，當您將所有這些東西結合在一起時，我們的結論是，您擁有一個真正引人注目的第一個產品，可以服務於多個市場，它可以比現有的更好——可用的替代品，可以真正優化上市時間，而不需要額外的發展。我們肯定計劃隨著時間的推移做更大的細胞。這只是我們如何盡快進入市場的問題。

Really appreciate it. does -- the kind of the focus on the 24-layer 5-amp hour cell, does that have any impact or kind of on your existing commercial agreements with auto OEMs, who are maybe kind of -- I don't know if there's an expectation that these would be kind of larger cells at that -- when those agreements are signed.

真的很感激。確實 - 對 24 層 5 安培小時電池的關注，是否對您與汽車原始設備製造商的現有商業協議有任何影響或某種影響，他們可能有點 - 我不知道是否有期望當這些協議簽署時，這些將是更大的單元。

Yes. So I think we're working with all of the players that we have already got engaged with and we are discussing with them the best bit of this design with the various programs that they have in their lineup. And again, because 5-amp hour cells are already used in high-volume automotive applications today, we believe there is going to be no shortage of demand for this kind of cell that offers the combination of energy density and power density in this capacity range. And then in the fullness of time, we offer a broader portfolio, including both larger and small cells in order to address the particular design approach that each OEM end up choosing.

是的。所以我認為我們正在與我們已經接觸過的所有玩家合作，我們正在與他們討論這個設計的最佳部分以及他們陣容中的各種程序。而且，由於 5 安培小時的電池已經在當今的大量汽車應用中使用，我們相信對這種在該容量範圍內提供能量密度和功率密度組合的電池的需求不會短缺.然後在適當的時候，我們提供更廣泛的產品組合，包括更大和更小的電池，以解決每個 OEM 最終選擇的特定設計方法。

The next question is from the line of Ben Kallo with Baird.

下一個問題來自 Ben Kallo 與 Baird 的對話。

Have you guys -- just maybe, Kevin, have you done anything with ATM? I'm sorry, if I missed this before.

你們有沒有 - 也許，凱文，你對 ATM 做過任何事情嗎？對不起，如果我之前錯過了這個。

Ben, if I'm correct, your question was regarding use of the ATM in the quarter.

本，如果我是對的，你的問題是關於本季度自動取款機的使用情況。

Right.

正確的。

No, we did not use the ATM facility in this quarter. .

不，本季度我們沒有使用 ATM 設施。 .

And then, Jagdeep, can you just -- and I know this is all complicated to me, at least. But the different form factors, I think this question was asked before, but -- like how do you think about going from cell to going into a product and the time line that we can see developments there, just consumer electronics versus automotive going from a cell to a pack. Like how should we think about the milestones?

然後，Jagdeep，你能不能——我知道這至少對我來說很複雜。但是不同的形式因素，我認為這個問題之前被問過，但是 - 比如你如何看待從電池到進入產品以及我們可以看到那裡發展的時間表，只是消費電子產品與汽車從電池到一包。比如我們應該如何考慮里程碑？

Yes. So I think on the automotive side, there's a relatively well made out methodology that they use, which as you know, as you go from an A-sample to B-sample and so on to higher levels of maturity. In addition to maturity level, B-samples typically have higher volumes, and they use those higher volumes to make packs then you use those packs to make -- actually test cars and then finally to qualify those vehicles. And then you have a series production release. So those are all activities that we were working on with our various OEM partners.

是的。所以我認為在汽車方面，他們使用了一種相對完善的方法，正如你所知，當你從 A 樣本到 B 樣本等等到更高的成熟度水平時。除了成熟度水平之外，B 樣本通常具有更高的體積，它們使用這些更高的體積來製作包裝，然後您使用這些包裝來製作——實際測試汽車，然後最終對這些車輛進行鑑定。然後你有一個系列產品發布。所以這些都是我們與各種 OEM 合作夥伴合作的活動。

On the consumer side, it's a simpler process because there is no pack so to speak. The cell that you are building is going to go into a device by itself. And the nice thing about this 5-amp hour design is that corresponds to roughly 20-watt hours. And 20-watt hours is on the higher end of what you would see even in a relatively large new model phone. So if we were to do anything that's different in terms of that design for a consumer device, it would likely be making it somewhat smaller. And of course, that's always easier to make something smaller because everything gets simpler and easier.

在消費者方面，這是一個更簡單的過程，因為可以說沒有包裝。您正在構建的單元將自行進入設備。這種 5 安培小時設計的好處在於它對應於大約 20 瓦時。即使在相對較大的新型手機中，20 瓦時也處於較高水平。因此，如果我們在消費設備的設計方面做任何不同的事情，它可能會變得更小。當然，把東西做得更小總是更容易，因為一切都變得更簡單、更容易。

So I think that -- those are the differences in terms of the process flows for how the process to market works. The advantage of consumer, of course, is that not only there's simpler process as I mentioned to you, there's no pack design to worry about, but the requirements at the cell level are also, in some ways, a lower bar. So you don't need the same rates of power so the C-rates are lower, you don't need super high power to run a phone versus a car. You also don't need the same temperature performance. Cars need to be rated down to maybe negative 20 or negative 30 degrees. Whereas phones typically don't need to run that -- operate at that lower temperature.

所以我認為 - 這些是市場流程如何運作的流程方面的差異。當然，消費者的優勢不僅在於我向您提到的過程更簡單，無需擔心包裝設計，而且在某些方面，電池級別的要求也更低。所以你不需要相同的功率率，所以 C 率更低，你不需要超高功率來運行手機和汽車。您也不需要相同的溫度性能。汽車的額定溫度可能降至負 20 度或負 30 度。而電話通常不需要運行 - 在較低的溫度下運行。

And the cycle life are very different. Cars typically will need to run for hundreds of thousands of miles or 10-plus years, whereas no phone is designed for 10 years, I wish they were, but typically, the phones are designed to be obsolete within a few years. So all that makes it easier for the consumer application, if you will. So this is why we refer to this as a single track dual-purpose design. We're doing 1 design with the 24-layer cell 5-amp hours, but we think it applies quite well to both consumer and automotive in the sense that there are examples of leading products in both sectors that use cells with capacities in that range.

而且循環壽命有很大的不同。汽車通常需要行駛數十萬英里或 10 年以上，而沒有手機是為 10 年設計的，我希望它們是，但通常情況下，手機的設計目的是在幾年內過時。因此，如果您願意，所有這些都使消費者應用程序更容易。所以這就是為什麼我們將其稱為單軌兩用設計。我們正在使用 5 安培小時的 24 層電池進行 1 設計，但我們認為它非常適用於消費品和汽車，因為這兩個領域都有領先產品使用容量在該範圍內的電池的例子.

In the past, you've talked about compatibility with current manufacturing, but we continue to see more and more capacity announcement at least like almost every day in the United States. Do you think that, that scale diminishes what you can offer to the automotive industry, I mean cell and pack, whomever you want to pick over the next 4 or 5 years as you get to commercialization or can you just remind us why you'll still be ahead of the curve.

過去，您曾談到與當前製造業的兼容性，但我們繼續看到越來越多的產能公告，至少就像在美國幾乎每天一樣。你是否認為，這種規模會削弱你可以為汽車行業提供的產品，我的意思是電池和電池組，無論你想在未來 4 或 5 年內選擇誰進行商業化，或者你能提醒我們為什麼你會仍然領先於曲線。

Yes. Just to make sure I understand the question. Are you asking whether the new battery production capacity...

是的。只是為了確保我理解這個問題。請問新電池產能是否...

Whomever, I mean like 35 gigawatt hours here and there. I'm wondering out to 2025, '26, '27, like, what your advantage is.

不管是誰，我的意思是到處都是 35 吉瓦時。我想知道到 2025 年、26 年、27 年，你的優勢是什麼。

Yes. Yes, absolutely. No, you're absolutely right that there have been a lot of announcements relative to new battery production capacity coming online for sure. And that actually is a testament to the -- just the expected demand that the automakers see for EVs in their portfolio. As much as we thought that EVs have been growing at a breakneck pace, it seems like there's no end in sight. This is just kind of a pace to be continuing. And it is a massive, massive market. I don't know, 80 million, 100 million cars a year kind of scale and to convert that whole market over to electric like powertrains, it will take a long time. It will take, I don't know, it might take a couple of decades to fully transition over.

是的。是的，一點沒錯。不，你是絕對正確的，肯定有很多關於新電池產能上線的公告。這實際上證明了汽車製造商在其產品組合中看到的對電動汽車的預期需求。儘管我們認為電動汽車一直在以驚人的速度增長，但似乎看不到盡頭。這只是一種持續的步伐。這是一個巨大的市場。我不知道，每年 8000 萬、1 億輛汽車的規模，要將整個市場轉變為像動力總成這樣的電動汽車，需要很長時間。我不知道，可能需要幾十年才能完全過渡。

And so to satisfy that, there's a need for a lot of batteries, hundreds of gigawatt hours of capacity. So we don't see that demand going away. I think relative to why our product is needed, the answer is that all of that capacity or substantially all the capacity that you mentioned, is coming in the form of traditional lithium-ion capacity, which means the energy densities, the power densities, the overall characteristics of those cells are very similar to what's available today. And we think that having a better cell, which is a cell that delivers better energy density, better power performance, that kind of cell will always have demand.

因此，為了滿足這一點，需要大量電池，數百吉瓦時的容量。所以我們沒有看到這種需求消失。我認為相對於為什麼需要我們的產品，答案是你提到的所有容量或基本上所有容量都以傳統鋰離子容量的形式出現，這意味著能量密度、功率密度、這些電池的總體特徵與今天可用的電池非常相似。我們認為擁有更好的電池，即提供更好的能量密度、更好的功率性能的電池，這種電池將始終有需求。

And so what we're focused on doing really is getting this new technology to market in order to enable our customers to take advantage of those capabilities. We heard very clearly from effectively all the people we've spoken to, all the customers that we have partnerships with right now that, that the value proposition we offer is very compelling. Our main challenge is, as you know, is simply to get this to market. And so we're focusing very heavily on trying to do everything we can to minimize time to market. And that's where locking in on this 24-layer 5-amp hour design, we think, is really a big step forward because it allows us to then have line of sight to a product, which allows us to order the tools that we need, to mass produce the product, which allows us to get it to market.

因此，我們真正專注於做的是將這項新技術推向市場，以使我們的客戶能夠利用這些功能。我們從所有與我們交談過的人以及我們現在與之建立合作夥伴關係的所有客戶那裡非常清楚地聽到，我們提供的價值主張非常引人注目。如您所知，我們的主要挑戰只是將其推向市場。因此，我們非常專注於盡我們所能來最大限度地縮短上市時間。我們認為，這就是鎖定這種 24 層 5 安培小時設計的地方，這確實是向前邁出的一大步，因為它使我們能夠看到產品，這使我們能夠訂購我們需要的工具，批量生產產品，這使我們能夠將其推向市場。

And of course, there will always be subsequent versions and subsequent batteries that have more capacity. But all that -- all those -- all that additional capacity, all those follow-on products all run through the first product in the first battery. So if we don't do that, none of the follow-on is going to happen, which is why we're laser-focused on just getting this 24-layer 5-amp hour cell to market out of that first battery.

當然，總會有後續版本和後續電池容量更大。但是所有這些 - 所有那些 - 所有這些額外的容量，所有這些後續產品都通過第一個電池中的第一個產品運行。因此，如果我們不這樣做，就不會發生任何後續行動，這就是為什麼我們專注於將這個 24 層 5 安培小時電池從第一個電池推向市場。

The next question is from the line of Mark Delaney with Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自馬克德萊尼與高盛的合作。

First, I was hoping to better understand the commercialization time line, which has been a point of emphasis in the letter and your remarks today. If I heard correctly, lower volume B-samples of this 24-layer 5-amp hour cell next year. I think you said by the end of 2025 for the higher volume B-samples, but maybe help us more broadly understand when you may be in series production with that cell.

首先，我希望更好地了解商業化時間表，這是今天信件和您的評論中強調的一點。如果我沒聽錯的話，明年將降低這種 24 層 5 安培小時電池的 B 樣本量。我想你說的是到 2025 年底獲得更高容量的 B 樣品，但也許可以幫助我們更廣泛地了解你何時可以使用該電池進行批量生產。

Yes. So it's obviously easier to be real precise about the near-term milestones, right? Because it's just forecasting gets harder the further you go into the future. As in cell predictions are hard, especially about the future. So I think in the near term, we have the milestones that we've made out for this year in our letter from last quarter. Those include, again, as a reminder, the higher-loading cathodes, the more efficient packaging, the films coming off the new more scalable production process and then better reliability. Those are all things that are key requirements for any commercial product. And those will also go into these initial low volume B-samples that come off the lower throughput line in '24.

是的。因此，對於近期的里程碑來說，真正精確起來顯然更容易，對吧？因為它只是預測變得越來越難你進入未來。就像細胞預測一樣困難，尤其是關於未來。所以我認為在短期內，我們在上個季度的信中為今年制定了里程碑。提醒一下，這些包括更高負載的陰極、更高效的包裝、來自新的更具可擴展性的生產工藝的薄膜以及更好的可靠性。這些都是任何商業產品的關鍵要求。這些也將進入這些最初的低容量 B 樣本，這些樣本在 24 年從較低的吞吐量生產線中脫穎而出。

Having said that, we do have higher throughput tools that we will be ordering that will arrive and be installed by the end of '25. So we believe we can be making the first B-samples off that higher throughput line before the end of '25. That -- the B-samples are things that we directly control. To go from B to C, of course, now you have to get the automotive OEM involved and the timing of the C-sample is really governed by the specific vehicle program and the customer that you're working with. So that becomes a little bit less precise. But our target is to be able to ramp up that facility at the end of '25 and then be able to ship past that point.

話雖如此，我們確實有更高吞吐量的工具，我們將訂購這些工具，這些工具將在 25 年底前到達並安裝。因此，我們相信我們可以在 25 世紀末之前從更高吞吐量的生產線上生產出第一批 B 樣品。那——B 樣本是我們直接控制的東西。當然，要從 B 到 C，現在您必須讓汽車 OEM 參與進來，而 C 樣本的時間實際上取決於特定的車輛計劃和您正在與之合作的客戶。所以這變得不那麼精確了。但我們的目標是能夠在 25 年底擴大該設施，然後能夠通過該點發貨。

That's very helpful. You also emphasized the value proposition and you think there's some good balance with this product that you've selected to commercialize initially. Could you double-click a bit on that? Maybe one on the cost side, I mean, how do you think the cost of the product would compare versus established cells that are in high volume initially, but then of course, over time, you should be able to ramp up. But using the benefits, right, you talked about the power. I mean, what would that mean for consumer in terms of charge times and maybe some of the other benefits your cell could enable?

這很有幫助。你還強調了價值主張，你認為你最初選擇商業化的這個產品有一些很好的平衡。你能雙擊那個嗎？也許在成本方面，我的意思是，你如何看待產品的成本與最初大量生產的已建立細胞相比，但當然，隨著時間的推移，你應該能夠提高。但是使用好處，對，你談到了力量。我的意思是，就充電時間以及您的電池可能帶來的其他一些好處而言，這對消費者意味著什麼？

Yes. I mean I think the core benefits of the cell are really what we've been showing all along, right. We've shown the fact that the lithium-metal, the higher density because we don't have the anode. So we don't have -- in our system, as you recall, we don't -- not only do we not have an anode, but there's really 0 lithium in our cell -- in our anode as manufactured. So we only manufacture a cathode and a separator, and bring them together as part of the assembly process. The anode forms in situ on the first charge. So that both gives us higher potential energy density but it also gives us an opportunity to have some cost advantages because we don't need the anode material, whether it's carbon or silicon or lithium oil and we also don't need the anode manufacturing line.

是的。我的意思是我認為細胞的核心優勢確實是我們一直在展示的，對吧。我們已經證明鋰金屬的密度更高，因為我們沒有陽極。所以我們沒有 - 在我們的系統中，正如你所記得的那樣，我們不僅沒有陽極，而且我們的電池中確實有 0 鋰 - 在我們製造的陽極中。所以我們只製造陰極和隔膜，並將它們放在一起作為組裝過程的一部分。陽極在第一次充電時就地形成。這樣既給了我們更高的潛在能量密度，也讓我們有機會獲得一些成本優勢，因為我們不需要陽極材料，無論是碳、矽還是鋰油，我們也不需要陽極生產線.

Now obviously, you can't compare a small-scale line with a super high volume line in terms of economies of scale and cost and so on. But I think at this stage, when we have a production line that will allow us to have all the details we need to then design larger lines and have more throughput.

很明顯，就規模經濟和成本等方面而言，您不能將小規模生產線與超高容量生產線進行比較。但我認為在這個階段，當我們擁有一條生產線時，我們將擁有所有需要的細節，然後設計更大的生產線並提高吞吐量。

I think at the end of the day, what we believe is our system has some key advantages in terms of economics, and that's -- I'm referring to the not needing an anode and not having anode manufacturing line. And we believe this industry has volumes that are so high that economies of scale can absolutely be achieved. So if you couple those 2 things, we do believe that we can offer a compelling economic value proposition. The timing of course depends on the timing of the ramp.

我認為歸根結底，我們相信我們的系統在經濟方面具有一些關鍵優勢，那就是——我指的是不需要陽極，也沒有陽極生產線。我們相信這個行業的銷量如此之高，絕對可以實現規模經濟。因此，如果將這兩件事結合起來，我們相信我們可以提供令人信服的經濟價值主張。當然，時間取決於斜坡的時間。

One other thing I could add just we kind of put it out in the shareholders letter is to maintain that -- to capture savings there on the components that we eliminate. We have, of course, have to manufacture our separator at scale and golden throughput with those targets. And that's why this disrupted this first stage and this disrupted separating process is so exciting that equipment is being sold now, and as we work towards specking up equipment for the second stage. So that's a development that we think is positive towards that product gross margin direction.

我可以補充的另一件事是我們在股東信中把它說出來是為了保持這一點——在我們消除的組件上節省開支。當然，我們必須按照這些目標大規模製造我們的分離器和黃金吞吐量。這就是為什麼這擾亂了第一階段，這種中斷的分離過程非常令人興奮，以至於現在正在出售設備，並且我們正在努力為第二階段準備設備。因此，我們認為這是對產品毛利率方向有利的發展。

That's all helpful. If I could just ask 1 last one. You spoke about amp hours of the cells. But as you think about overall storage capacity at the pack level, I think we need to think about how big the cells are versus 2170 and how densely they could be packaged. I don't -- maybe it's too soon to kind of have visibility into pack-level density. But if you -- you alluded to perhaps being better on that metric. But talking a bit more depth on the overall density potential of your cells versus what's out there today, that would be helpful. .

這都是有幫助的。如果我能問 1 最後一個。你談到了電池的安培小時數。但是當你考慮電池組級別的整體存儲容量時，我認為我們需要考慮電池與 2170 相比有多大，以及它們可以包裝多密。我不——也許現在了解包級密度還為時過早。但是，如果你——你提到也許在該指標上做得更好。但是，更深入地討論你的細胞的整體密度潛力與今天的情況相比，這會有所幫助。 .

Yes. Yes, happy to. It's a good question. So actually, there are 2 points I'll make on that front. One is that the energy density at the cell level, right, we believe it will be higher with the solid-state lithium-metal technology than conventional 2170 cells. But secondly, at the pack level because the cells we're shipping will be in a prismatic format. Prismatic cells pack better, right? With the cylindrical cells, imagine taking a bunch of water bottles and trying to pack them densely you will have dead space between the bottles that you cannot give rid of, no matter how densely you try to pack. There will be a loss of space.

是的。是的，很高興。這是個好問題。所以實際上，我會在這方面提出兩點。一是電池級別的能量密度，對吧，我們相信固態鋰金屬技術會比傳統的 2170 電池更高。但其次，在包裝級別，因為我們運送的電池將採用棱柱形格式。棱柱形電池包裝得更好，對吧？對於圓柱形電池，想像一下拿一堆水瓶並試圖將它們密集地包裝起來，無論您嘗試包裝得多麼密集，瓶子之間都會有無法擺脫的死角。會有空間損失。

I think the geometric calculations are on the order of 9% of the space is guaranteed to be lost to void space. Whereas with the prismatic cells using a bunch of rectangular blocks that you're packing, you can pack them up with 0 wasted space into a pack. So the combination of higher energy density at the cell level and more efficient packing because of the prismatic nature of the cells for the pack level, as we give you -- we think, a compelling value proposition on energy density.

我認為幾何計算大約是 9% 的空間肯定會丟失到空隙空間。而棱柱形電池使用一堆你正在打包的矩形塊，你可以將它們打包成一個包，浪費空間為 0。因此，由於電池在電池組級別的棱柱性質，電池級別的更高能量密度和更有效的包裝相結合，正如我們為您提供的 - 我們認為，這是一個令人信服的能量密度價值主張。

There are currently no further questions registered. (Operator Instructions) There are no additional questions waiting at this time. So I'll pass the conference back to the management team for any closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題登記。 （操作員說明）此時沒有其他問題等待。因此，我會將會議傳回給管理團隊，聽取任何閉幕詞。

Okay. I'd like to thank you all for joining today's call. And in particular, I'd like to thank our investors for their continued support, our customers for their ongoing commitment to bringing our technology to market, and of course, the entire QuantumScape team for the endless passion and dedication that drives our progress.

好的。我要感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。特別是，我要感謝我們的投資者一直以來的支持，感謝我們的客戶對將我們的技術推向市場的持續承諾，當然還要感謝整個 QuantumScape 團隊，感謝他們無盡的熱情和奉獻精神推動我們的進步。

That concludes the conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。