Perella Weinberg Partners (PWP) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Perella Weinberg Partners first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's call is being recorded.

早安，歡迎參加 Perella Weinberg Partners 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的通話正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to Taylor Reinhardt, Head of Communications and Marketing. You may begin.

現在我想將電話轉給傳播和行銷主管泰勒·萊因哈特 (Taylor Reinhardt)。你可以開始了。

Thank you, operator, and welcome all. Joining me today are Andrew Bednar, Chief Executive Officer; and Alex Gottschalk, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝接線員，歡迎大家。今天與我一起出席的還有執行長 Andrew Bednar；以及財務長 Alex Gottschalk。

Before we begin, I'd like to note that this call may contain forward-looking statements, including Perella Weinberg's expectations of future financial and business performance and conditions and industry outlook. Forward-looking statements are inherently subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions that could cause actual results to differ materially from those discussed in the forward-looking statements and are not guarantees of future events or performance.

在我們開始之前，我想指出，本次電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述，包括 Perella Weinberg 對未來財務和業務表現和狀況以及行業前景的預期。前瞻性陳述本質上受風險、不確定性和假設的影響，這些風險、不確定性和假設可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中討論的結果有重大差異，並且不能保證未來事件或表現。

Please refer to Perella Weinberg's most recent SEC filings for a discussion of certain of these risks and uncertainties. The forward-looking statements are based on our current beliefs and expectations, and the firm undertakes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements.

請參閱 Perella Weinberg 向美國證券交易委員會提交的最新文件，以了解有關這些風險和不確定性的討論。前瞻性陳述基於我們目前的信念和期望，本公司不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。

During the call, there will also be a discussion of some metrics, which are non-GAAP financial measures, which management believes are relevant in assessing the financial performance of the business. Perella Weinberg has reconciled these items to the most comparable GAAP measures in the press release filed with today's Form 8-K, which can be found on the company's website.

在電話會議期間，也將討論一些非公認會計準則財務指標，管理階層認為這些指標與評估業務財務績效有關。Perella Weinberg 在今天的 8-K 表格中提交的新聞稿中已將這些項目與最具可比性的 GAAP 指標進行了協調，該新聞稿可在公司網站上找到。

I will now turn the call over to Andrew Bednar to discuss our results.

現在我將把電話轉給安德魯貝德納 (Andrew Bednar) 來討論我們的結果。

Thank you, Taylor, and good morning. Today, we reported first quarter revenues of $212 million, up more than 100% year over year and representing the highest first quarter revenue in our history. Our results were up across the firm with revenue in the US and in Europe, up twofold driven by larger fees per transaction, which resulted from our continued focus on client coverage and business selection.

謝謝你，泰勒，早安。今天，我們報告第一季營收為 2.12 億美元，年成長超過 100%，創下我們歷史上第一季的最高收入。我們整個公司的業績都有所成長，美國和歐洲的收入成長了一倍，這得益於每筆交易費用的增加，而這得益於我們持續專注於客戶覆蓋和業務選擇。

Policy action from the US government at the start of April and related reactions have not stopped deal announcements, but have slowed them down. Our clients are in an adjustment stage and are awaiting clarity on ultimate tariff and trade policy. Once the range of uncertainty narrows, we expect transaction activity to accelerate as we experienced in both '08 and '09 and COVID periods. Unlike these prior market dislocations, however, we have not seen clients today broadly terminating processes or walking away from deals just pausing, which is encouraging.

美國政府在四月初採取的政策行動及相關反應並未阻止交易公告的發布，但卻使其速度放緩。我們的客戶正處於調整階段，正在等待最終關稅和貿易政策的明確。一旦不確定性範圍縮小，我們預計交易活動將會加速，就像我們在 2008 年、2009 年和 COVID 時期所經歷的那樣。然而，與先前的市場混亂不同，我們今天還沒有看到客戶廣泛終止流程或放棄交易，這是令人鼓舞的。

Our client engagement dashboard stats, which include new business reviews, client calls and requests for meetings are at all-time highs, and our pipeline is very strong. Our announced and pending backlog, however, has declined from record levels.

我們的客戶參與度儀表板統計數據（包括新業務評論、客戶電話和會議請求）達到了歷史最高水平，我們的管道非常強大。然而，我們已宣布和待處理的積壓訂單已從創紀錄的水平下降。

In the current fog, we see two bright spots. First, our restructuring liability management and financing advisory business experienced a meaningful uptick in demand from the start of April. And second, recruiting, where in the first quarter, we added a Managing Director focused on transportation, leasing and logistics, and we have a health care partner, a software partner, a Managing Director in financials, and a Managing Director in Industrial, slated to join us in the coming months.

在當前的迷霧中，我們看到了兩個亮點。首先，自 4 月初以來，我們的重組負債管理和融資諮詢業務需求出現了顯著上升。第二，招募。在第一季度，我們增加了一位專注於運輸、租賃和物流的董事總經理，還有一位醫療保健合作夥伴、一位軟體合作夥伴、一位金融董事總經理和一位工業董事總經理，他們計劃在未來幾個月加入我們。

Disruption creates opportunity. This is a time to showcase the strength of our firm and lean into growth initiatives. Our client-centric model allows us to quickly pivot our resources to deliver the services our clients need from advising on their most transformative strategic initiatives to their most pressing financial needs. Our client relationships are measured by a lifetime and not by a transaction time line and it's in times like these that we gain and solidified their trust. Our brand and our team are stronger than ever and we are exceptionally well positioned. I remain very confident in our long-term prospects.

顛覆創造機遇。這是我們展現公司實力並推動成長計畫的時機。我們以客戶為中心的模式使我們能夠快速調動資源，為客戶提供所需的服務，從為他們最具變革性的策略舉措提供建議到他們最緊迫的財務需求。我們與客戶的關係是以生命週期來衡量的，而不是以交易時間來衡量的，正是在這樣的時刻，我們獲得並鞏固了他們的信任。我們的品牌和團隊比以往更強大，而且我們處於非常有利的地位。我對我們的長期前景仍然充滿信心。

With that, I'll now turn the call over to Alex to review our financial results and capital management in more detail.

說完這些，我現在將電話轉給亞歷克斯，讓他更詳細地回顧我們的財務表現和資本管理。

Thank you, Andrew. Our revenues of $212 million included $23 million related to closings that occurred within the first few days of the second quarter, in which in accordance with relevant accounting principles, were recorded in the first quarter. Our adjusted compensation margin was 67% of revenues and in line with our full year 2024 accrual. The compensation margin was set based on assumptions at the end of the quarter and may be adjusted as business conditions and investment decisions progress in the coming months and through year-end.

謝謝你，安德魯。我們的 2.12 億美元收入包括與第二季頭幾天發生的交易有關的 2,300 萬美元，根據相關會計原則，這些收入計入第一季。我們的調整後薪酬利潤率為收入的 67%，與我們 2024 年全年的應計利潤一致。薪資利潤率是根據本季末的假設設定的，可能會隨著未來幾個月以及年底的商業狀況和投資決策的進展而進行調整。

Our adjusted non-compensation expense of $49 million for the quarter included more than $10 million of litigation-related costs, which was the primary driver of the year over year and quarter over quarter increases. Our prior guidance of a single-digit increase in non-comp expense for the full year 2025 remains our best estimate at this time.

本季我們調整後的非薪資支出為 4900 萬美元，其中包括超過 1000 萬美元的訴訟相關費用，這是同比和環比增長的主要原因。我們先前預測 2025 年全年非經營性支出將以個位數成長，這仍然是我們目前的最佳估計。

Shifting to taxes. Our adjusted if converted effective tax rate for the first quarter reflects the tax benefit resulting from stock compensation awards vesting at a higher price than granted. Excluding this impact, the adjusted tax rate would have been 29.5%, in line with our tax rate expectation for the remainder of the year.

轉向稅收。我們第一季的調整後有效稅率反映了股票薪酬獎勵以高於授予價格歸屬所產生的稅收優惠。排除此影響，調整後的稅率將為 29.5%，與我們對今年剩餘時間的稅率預期一致。

Turning to capital management. In the first quarter, we returned $121 million to equity holders, including over $14 million in open market repurchases and nearly $29 million related to unit exchanges. We will continue to deploy capital for open market buybacks as opportunities arise in addition to repurchases in connection with ordinary course RSU vestings and quarterly unit exchanges with a continued focus on proactively managing our share count.

轉向資本管理。第一季度，我們向股東返還了 1.21 億美元，其中包括超過 1,400 萬美元的公開市場回購和近 2,900 萬美元的單位交換相關返還。除了與普通 RSU 歸屬和季度單位交換相關的回購外，我們還將繼續在機會出現時為公開市場回購部署資本，並繼續專注於主動管理我們的股票數量。

At the end of the first quarter, we had 62 million shares of Class A common stock and 26 million partnership units outstanding. We ended the quarter with $111 million in cash and no debt. This morning, we declared a quarterly dividend of $0.07 per share.

截至第一季末，我們已發行 6,200 萬股 A​​ 類普通股及 2,600 萬股合夥單位。本季結束時，我們擁有 1.11 億美元現金，且無債務。今天上午，我們宣布每股 0.07 美元的季度股息。

With that, operator, please open the line for questions.

接線員，請打開熱線來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Devin Ryan, Citizens Bank.

德文·瑞安（Devin Ryan），公民銀行。

Hello?

你好？

Yeah, we can hear you now.

是的，我們現在可以聽到你的聲音。

Sorry about that. I think my phone cut for a second. The question on the M&A environment. Obviously, a lot of uncertainty right now. I'm just curious how much of -- maybe the recent slowdown is because companies are changing plans because their business outlook is more uncertain, so maybe they're less interested in buying an asset or selling their business versus simply market conditions are volatile. And so when market conditions settle down that should reignite activity that's maybe sitting on the sideline.

很抱歉。我覺得我的電話斷了一秒鐘。關於併購環境的問題。顯然，目前存在著許多不確定性。我只是好奇，最近的經濟放緩在多大程度上是因為公司因為業務前景更加不確定而改變計劃，所以也許他們對購買資產或出售業務不太感興趣，而不是僅僅因為市場狀況不穩定。因此，當市場狀況穩定下來時，這應該會重新點燃那些可能處於觀望狀態的活動。

Yeah. Thanks for the question, Devin. As I said in the upfront remarks, broadly across the firm in the M&A business, we see clients pausing and not terminating. And so I think we have clearly a slowdown in announcements. You can see that across the board in the sector as well as for power business, but not a slowdown in the interest in M&A.

是的。謝謝你的提問，德文。正如我在前言中所說，在整個公司的併購業務中，我們看到客戶暫停而不是終止。因此我認為我們的公告發布速度明顯放緩。您可以看到，該行業以及電力行業都存在這種情況，但併購興趣並未放緩。

And I think this is just a natural moment with the volatility, as you mentioned. And I think an increasing range of uncertainty, we always have uncertainty, but I think the range of uncertainty here is particularly broad at this moment. And so when you're driving in the fog, I think it's a natural instant to tap the brakes and that's what we see.

正如您所說，我認為這只是波動的一個自然現象。我認為不確定性的範圍不斷擴大，我們總是存在不確定性，但我認為此時不確定性的範圍特別廣泛。因此，當你在霧中駕駛時，我認為踩剎車是一個自然的動作，這就是我們所看到的。

I do think because there is not a slowdown in the interest in M&A that once you get some clarity -- some more clarity, I don't think you get complete clarity, but once you get more clarity, there's I think an opportunity to be able to transact again and plan again and then we'll see, I think, a pretty sharp response to more clarity from the policy actions. So we're anticipating this to look a bit more like coming out of COVID than slogging through the sort of March '22 time frame?

我確實認為，因為對併購的興趣沒有放緩，一旦你獲得了一些清晰度 - 一些更清晰的清晰度，我不認為你會獲得完全的清晰度，但一旦你獲得了更清晰的清晰度，我認為就有機會能夠再次進行交易並再次進行規劃，然後我們將看到，我認為，對政策行動的更清晰性的相當敏銳的反應。所以我們預計這看起來更像是從 COVID 中走出來，而不是艱難地度過 2022 年 3 月的時間段？

Great. And a follow-up on the non-M&A businesses. Can you give us any sense of percentage of contribution in the quarter? And then for restructuring specifically, your team seems like they're doing quite well there. And I'm curious if you can frame kind of how much the productivity improvements are a function of just the environment being more active versus perhaps the firm gaining market share and how you feel about just more broadly market share in that business?

偉大的。以及對非併購業務的跟進。您能告訴我們本季的貢獻百分比嗎？具體來說，就重組而言，您的團隊似乎做得很好。我很好奇，您是否可以闡述一下，生產力的提高在多大程度上取決於環境的活躍程度，還是取決於公司市場份額的增加，以及您對該業務更廣泛的市場份額有何看法？

Yeah. We feel great about the broad liability management business. I think our team is doing a terrific job. I think the brand is gaining a lot of traction in that marketplace. We've been building that now for many, many years, and you tend to get the benefits of compounding, which we're seeing now.

是的。我們對廣泛的負債管理業務感到非常滿意。我認為我們的團隊做得非常出色。我認為該品牌在該市場上正獲得很大的吸引力。我們已經為此努力了很多年，現在我們已經看到了複合帶來的好處。

I think the market is quite conducive to the broad liability management service when you have these periods of volatility and moments where capital markets are quite challenging, you tend to seek help. And so that's a very good driver of our business. We don't break out the elements of our revenue, as you know, Devin, so I won't go to the -- answering that question.

我認為市場非常有利於廣泛的負債管理服務，當你遇到這些波動時期和資本市場相當具有挑戰性的時刻時，你往往會尋求幫助。這對我們的業務來說是一個非常好的推動力。如你所知，德文，我們不會列出我們的收入要素，所以我不會去回答這個問題。

But as you know, we're a very client-centric model. And when our clients need more than their strategic help that they need help in connection with financings or in connection with balance sheet management, we quickly mobilized our team to address client needs. So that business has done very well. We continue to see strength coming into the year, and we saw a real pickup beginning during the volatility. In April, we saw an even further increase in the business in that month.

但如你所知，我們的模式是以客戶為中心的。當我們的客戶需要的不僅僅是策略性幫助，而是與融資或資產負債表管理相關的幫助時，我們會迅速動員我們的團隊來滿足客戶的需求。所以這項業務做得很好。我們繼續看到今年的強勁勢頭，並且我們看到在波動期間出現了真正的回升。4月份，我們的業務量進一步成長。

Brendan O'Brien, Wolfe Research.

布倫丹·奧布萊恩（Brendan O'Brien），沃爾夫研究公司。

I heard the comments that 1Q you saw pretty balanced growth US and Europe. But we've been hearing a lot more positive on the M&A backdrop in Europe relative to US of late. So I just want to get a sense of how (technical difficulty) and whether you're seeing relative --

我聽到這樣的評論：第一季美國和歐洲的成長相當均衡。但最近我們聽到的有關歐洲併購背景的消息比美國更積極。所以我只是想了解一下（技術難度）以及你是否看到了相對--

Sorry, Brendan, I'm not hearing that very well. I'm not sure operator, if we can help his line.

抱歉，布倫丹，我聽不太清楚。我不確定接線員，我們是否可以幫助他的線路。

Please stand by. I'll see if I can turn the volume up here some.

請稍候。我看看是否可以將這裡的音量調高一些。

Brendan, do you want to try again?

布倫丹，你想再試一次嗎？

Yeah. Can you hear me now, sorry?

是的。抱歉，你現在聽得到我說話嗎？

Yeah, that's perfect.

是的，太完美了。

Okay. Great. Sorry about that. Yeah. So I was just asking on activity in Europe relative to the US. I heard that you saw pretty balanced trends across both regions in 1Q, but there's been a little bit more positivity on the outlook for Europe. So I just want to get a sense as to whether you're seeing any bifurcation in trends there.

好的。偉大的。很抱歉。是的。所以我只是詢問歐洲相對於美國的活動情況。我聽說第一季兩個地區的趨勢相當平衡，但歐洲的前景更樂觀。所以我只是想了解一下您是否看到那裡的趨勢出現分歧。

Yeah, we're seeing Europe much more unified in the wake of the policy actions here since the April time frame. And we see a greater willingness to think about broad regional transactions and a more accommodative regulatory backdrop in Europe. So I think all of those are encouraging. I think much like the US markets, however, particularly in the last 30 days or so, I mean everybody is sort of paused and taking a step back.

是的，我們看到自四月以來歐洲採取的政策行動使得歐洲變得更加團結。我們看到，人們更願意考慮廣泛的區域交易，歐洲的監管背景也更加寬鬆。所以我認為這一切都是令人鼓舞的。我認為這與美國市場非常相似，特別是在過去 30 天左右，每個人都暫停並退後一步。

And again, waiting for a bit more clarity, doesn't need to be absolute clarity, but I think a little bit more clarity on where this tariff policy and broad trade relations are going to fall out. I think we'll start to see, again, a falling of what I think is a thin layer of ice, not a deep freeze, but a thin layer of ice here that will fall both in the US and in Europe. But we do like the backdrop for Europe, and we think it's trending very well and appears to be a better trending than what we saw in the last two years.

再說一次，等待更清晰的認識，不需要絕對清晰，但我認為需要更清晰地了解這項關稅政策和廣泛的貿易關係將會如何發展。我認為，我們將再次看到薄冰層的融化，這不是深度凍結，而是美國和歐洲都會融化的薄冰層。但我們確實喜歡歐洲的背景，我們認為它的趨勢非常好，而且似乎比過去兩年看到的趨勢更好。

That's helpful color. And for my follow-up, I just wanted to touch on recruiting. Last year, you spoke about plans or hopes to see an acceleration hiring this year. And obviously, it sounds like you've gotten out to a good start. But while the preference is obviously for a stronger revenue backdrop, I would imagine that the current volatility and slowdown in M&A could also result in a better recruiting environment for you. So I just want to get a sense as to what you're seeing in the recruiting backdrop today and get an update on your expectations for the full year.

這是很有幫助的顏色。接下來我只想談談招募問題。去年，您談到了今年加速招募的計畫或希望。顯然，聽起來你已經有了一個好的開始。儘管人們顯然更傾向於更強勁的收入背景，但我認為，目前併購的波動和放緩也可能為您帶來更好的招募環境。所以我只是想了解一下您今天看到的招募背景，並了解您對全年的期望。

Yeah, you're exactly right. This is a bit of the yin and yang of the business when you tend to have moments of less activity or slower announcement activity, in particular tends to lead to an acceleration in hiring opportunities. So we're always at the plate and ready to take swings at pitches that we're going to be given on recruiting. We are constantly adding talent. In this environment, we're going to see some more talent.

是的，你說得完全正確。當你傾向於擁有較少活動或較慢公告活動的時刻時，這有點像業務的陰陽，尤其往往會導致招聘機會的加速。因此，我們始終處於準備狀態，隨時準備好應對招募過程中遇到的各種挑戰。我們正在不斷引進人才。在這種環境下，我們將會看到更多的人才。

We're not going to change our criteria, but we are seeing more talent. And as I said on the third quarter call, I think last year, we did want to accelerate our hiring for 2025 irrespective of market. And I think that market has moved more our way than when we started the year, given again the slower announcement cadence here makes it a bit easier for people to think about a job change. So that's helpful on the recruiting front.

我們不會改變我們的標準，但我們看到了更多的人才。正如我在第三季電話會議上所說的那樣，我認為去年我們確實希望加快 2025 年的招聘速度，無論市場如何。我認為，與年初相比，市場已經朝著我們想要的方向發展，因為這裡的公告節奏再次放緩，讓人們更容易考慮換工作。這對招募方面很有幫助。

James Yaro, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的詹姆斯·亞羅。

On the 67% cap ratio you put up for the quarter, could you just give us a little more clarity on what sort of backdrop you baked into the ratio and then how you're thinking about the ability to make further progress on the comp ratio for this year and beyond?

關於您在本季度提出的 67% 的資本化率，您能否更清楚地說明一下您在製定這一比率時考慮了什麼樣的背景，以及您如何考慮在今年及以後進一步提高資本化率？

Yeah. Alex, do you want to go ahead and take that?

是的。亞歷克斯，你想繼續拿這個嗎？

Yeah, sure. Thanks, James. Look, so the 67% comp ratio really reflects our best estimate at the end of the quarter and continues to reflect our best estimate at this point in time. Obviously, as the year progresses and we measure our performance, and we have better visibility on our pace of recruiting that could adjust. We're still early in the year. And I think we've demonstrated that we've provided leverage in our comp ratio and continue committed to doing that.

是的，當然。謝謝，詹姆斯。你看，67% 的比較率確實反映了我們在本季末的最佳估計，並且繼續反映我們此時的最佳估計。顯然，隨著時間的推移和我們衡量業績的表現，我們對可以調整的招募速度有了更好的了解。今年還處於初期階段。我認為我們已經證明，我們在薪酬比率中提供了槓桿作用，並將繼續致力於這樣做。

Okay. Non-comps rose 33% year on year in the quarter. Could you just break out how much of the non-comps were from the litigation this quarter that you highlighted, and I assume it's onetime in nature. And then could you just update us on your full year non-comp guidance relative to the single-digit year-on-year number you gave previously?

好的。本季非同店銷售額年增 33%。您能否詳細說明本季您強調的訴訟中有多少是非同尋常的，我認為這是一次性的。然後，您能否向我們介紹一下相對於您之前給出的個位數同比數字的全年非競爭性指導？

Sure, James. Yeah, I think I mentioned in my upfront remarks, that litigation spend, which was directly related to the trial, which has concluded was over $11 million in the quarter. So that is definitely seasonal and not something that we expect to occur in the balance of the quarters for the year. And that single-digit increase that we indicated on the last call, it still remains our best estimate for the year, the year over year increase in non-comp.

當然，詹姆斯。是的，我想我在前面提到過，與審判直接相關的訴訟費用在本季已超過 1100 萬美元。所以這肯定是季節性的，而不是我們預計在今年剩餘季度內發生的事情。我們在上次電話會議上指出的個位數成長仍然是我們對今年的最佳估計，即非競爭性收入年增。

This concludes the Q&A portion of today's call. I would now like to turn the call back over to Andrew Bednar for any additional or closing remarks.

今天電話會議的問答部分到此結束。現在我想將電話轉回給安德魯貝德納 (Andrew Bednar)，請他發表任何補充意見或結束語。

Okay. Thank you, operator, and thank you, everyone, for your interest in our firm and for your continued support. I also want to take a moment just to thank the 700 professionals, all my colleagues at Perella Weinberg for their tireless commitment to our mission and their unwavering dedication to our clients whenever and wherever they need us. I look forward to speaking with all of you in a few months, and thank you again for joining today.

好的。謝謝接線員，也謝謝大家對我們公司的關注和持續的支持。我還想花一點時間感謝 Perella Weinberg 的 700 名專業人員和所有同事，感謝他們對我們的使命的不懈承諾以及他們隨時隨地為客戶所付出的堅定奉獻。我期待幾個月後與大家交談，再次感謝大家今天的加入。

This concludes the Perella Weinberg Partners first quarter 2025 earnings call and webcast. You may disconnect your line at this time and have.

Perella Weinberg Partners 2025 年第一季財報電話會議及網路廣播到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路了。