ProAssurance Corp (PRA) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to ProAssurance's conference call to discuss the company's second-quarter 2024 results. I would like to remind you that the call is being recorded and there will be time for questions after the conclusion of the prepared remarks.

大家早安。歡迎參加 ProAssurance 的電話會議，討論該公司 2024 年第二季的業績。我想提醒您，電話正在錄音，在準備好的演講結束後將有時間提問。

Now I will turn the call over to Heather Wietzel to begin. Heather, please go ahead.

現在我將把電話轉給 Heather Wietzel 開始。希瑟，請繼續。

Good morning, everyone. ProAssurance issued its news release, investor presentation and report on Form 10-Q and second-quarter results yesterday, August 8. Included in those documents were cautionary statements about the significant risks, uncertainties and other factors that are out of the company's control and could affect ProAssurance's business and alter expected results. Please review those statements.

大家早安。ProAssurance 於昨天（8 月 8 日）發布了新聞稿、投資者介紹以及 10-Q 表格和第二季度業績報告。這些文件中包含有關重大風險、不確定性和其他公司無法控制的因素的警告聲明，這些因素可能會影響 ProAssurance 的業務並改變預期結果。請查看這些陳述。

This morning, our management team will discuss selected aspects of the results on this call, and investors should review the 10-Q and news release for full and complete information. We expect to make statements on this call dealing with projections, estimates and expectations. And explicitly identify these as forward-looking statements within the meaning of the US.federal securities laws and subject to applicable safe harbor protection. The content of this call is accurate only on August 9, 2024 and except as required by law or regulation, ProAssurance will not undertake and expressly disclaim any obligation to update or alter information disclosed as part of these forward-looking statements.

今天早上，我們的管理團隊將在本次電話會議上討論結果的選定方面，投資者應查看 10-Q 和新聞稿以獲取完整的資訊。我們希望在這次電話會議上發表有關預測、估計和期望的聲明。並明確將這些陳述視為美國聯邦證券法意義內的前瞻性陳述，並受到適用的安全港保護。本次電話會議的內容僅在 2024 年 8 月 9 日準確，除非法律或法規要求，否則 ProAssurance 將不承擔並明確否認任何更新或更改作為這些前瞻性聲明的一部分披露的資訊的義務。

We also expect to reference non-GAAP items during today's call. The company's recent news release provides a reconciliation of these non-GAAP numbers to their GAAP counterparts. On the call with me today are Ned Rand, President and CEO; and Dana Hendricks, Chief Financial Officer. Also joining on the call today are executive leadership team members Rob Francis, Kevin Shook and Karen Murphy.

我們也希望在今天的電話會議中提及非公認會計準則項目。該公司最近的新聞稿提供了這些非公認會計原則數據與公認會計原則對應數據的調節。今天與我通話的是總裁兼執行長 Ned Rand；和財務長 Dana Hendricks。今天參加電話會議的還有執行領導團隊成員 Rob Francis、Kevin Shook 和 Karen Murphy。

Now I will turn the call over to Ned.

現在我將把電話轉給內德。

Thank you. And I'd like to start by welcoming everyone to our call. We reported operating earnings in the second quarter of $0.23 per share benefiting from a 16% increase in net investment income as we continue to take advantage of the higher interest rate environment. Our underwriting results, particularly in the Specialty P&C segment, which includes our Medical Professional Liability line of business are beginning to reflect our actions to achieve long-term sustained profitability in the face of market conditions that remain challenging.

謝謝。首先我想歡迎大家來參加我們的電話會議。我們報告第二季營業利潤為每股 0.23 美元，受益於我們繼續利用較高利率環境的淨投資收入成長 16%。我們的承保業績，特別是在專業財產險領域（包括我們的醫療專業責任險業務線）的承保業績，開始反映出我們在面對仍然充滿挑戰的市場條件時為實現長期持續盈利而採取的行動。

Looking first at Specialty P&C, the net loss ratio for the quarter improved both sequentially and year-over-year. Compared with last year, the current accident year loss ratio improved by 1.4 points, with a higher level of favorable prior year reserve releases, also contributing to the 2 point improvement in the net loss ratio. For some time, we have recognized and responded to the challenging Medical Professional Liability loss environment. While frequency remains fairly flat, social inflation and eroding tort reforms are driving rising severity.

首先來看專業財產險，本季的淨虧損率較上月及年比都有所改善。與去年相比，本期事故年損失率改善了1.4個百分點，加上上年準備金釋放水準較高，也導致淨損失率改善了2個百分點。一段時間以來，我們已經認識到並應對充滿挑戰的醫療專業責任損失環境。雖然頻率仍然相當平穩，但社會通貨膨脹和侵權改革的侵蝕正在推動嚴重程度的上升。

We believe we are ahead of many in the space in achieving rate levels in MPL that outpaced severity trends, even as we remain intently focused on segments within healthcare where there are opportunities to write business profitably. Since 2018, we have increased renewal premiums within our MPL lines of business by over 65% cumulatively, with this quarter's renewal pricing increases averaging 9%, driven by 10% for our standard business and 12% for our Specialty business.

我們相信，儘管我們仍然專注於醫療保健領域有機會實現盈利的細分市場，但我們在實現 MPL 率水平方面領先於該領域的許多人，其速度水平超過了嚴重程度的趨勢。自 2018 年以來，我們的 MPL 業務範圍內的續保保費累計增加了 65% 以上，本季的續保定價平均上漲 9%，其中標準業務上漲 10%，專業業務上漲 12%。

We also continue to forego renewal and new business opportunities that we believe did not meet our expectation of rate adequacy in the current loss environment. New business was below last year at $5 million. As a result, net written premiums for Specialty P&C were flat, although retention of existing insureds remains a solid 84%.

我們也繼續放棄續約和新的業務機會，我們認為這些機會不符合我們在當前虧損環境下對利率充足性的預期。新業務低於去年，為 500 萬美元。因此，儘管現有被保險人的保留率仍穩定在 84%，但特殊財產險的淨承保保費持平。

In parallel with our pricing actions, we are focused on disciplined underwriting and managing claims to address market conditions. We are moving steadily forward with our use of innovation tool to improve risk selection, enhance pricing decisions and improve workflows, while also focusing on ease of doing business for our insured and distribution partners.

在我們的定價行動的同時，我們也專注於嚴格的承保和管理索賠，以應對市場狀況。我們正在穩步前進，利用創新工具來改善風險選擇、增強定價決策和改進工作流程，同時也注重為我們的被保險人和分銷合作夥伴開展業務提供便利。

We are leveraging our extensive data on this market with predictive analytics, which is helping us in those markets and subsectors where there are opportunities to write business profitably. For example, these tools help us consider a variety of factors, including specialty and venue severity, when establishing our underwriting appetite. We're pleased to be seeing improved retention in the more profitable, small to midsize accounts as a part of this effort.

我們正在利用我們在這個市場上的廣泛數據進行預測分析，這有助於我們在那些有機會開展業務的市場和子行業中實現盈利。例如，這些工具可幫助我們在確定承保意願時考慮各種因素，包括專業和場地嚴重程度。作為這項努力的一部分，我們很高興看到利潤更高的中小型客戶的保留率有所提高。

Turning to our Workers' Compensation segment. We are aggressively working to address the impact of higher loss trends related to rising medical costs per claim that we began to see in mid-2023. For the quarter, the segment's current accident year loss ratio was about 4 points below the full year 2023 ratio, although still above last year's second quarter.

轉向我們的工人賠償部分。我們正在積極努力解決與 2023 年中期開始出現的每項索賠醫療費用上漲相關的更高損失趨勢的影響。就本季而言，該部門目前的事故年損失率比 2023 年全年比率低約 4 個百分點，但仍高於去年第二季。

We believe our caution in the current claims environment and focus on operational discipline is having a positive impact. Further, our underwriting appetite remains intentionally cautious until we can obtain the necessary rate reflected in gross written premiums down 3% with new business below last year at $5 million.

我們相信，我們在當前索賠環境中的謹慎態度和對營運紀律的關注正在產生積極的影響。此外，我們的承保意願仍然有意保持謹慎，直到我們能夠獲得毛承保保費下降 3% 所反映的必要利率，新業務低於去年的 500 萬美元。

We have seen the average cost per claim improve slightly from the elevated levels initially seen in the second half of 2023. Reported claim frequency continues to trend below historical levels, although still reflecting the impact of higher average medical cost per claim and the growing influence of vertically integrated medical systems.

我們發現每次索賠的平均成本較 2023 年下半年最初出現的較高水準略有改善。報告的索賠頻率繼續低於歷史水平，儘管仍然反映了每次索賠平均醫療成本較高的影響以及垂直整合醫療系統影響力不斷增強的影響。

There is no change in prior accident year reserves for this segment in the second quarter. We are preparing to introduce tools that will help us address the challenging market conditions by using AI along with underwriting and claims data analytics to enhance profitability, productivity and efficiency. Most recently, we entered into an agreement with CLARA Analytics, a leading AI service provider with extensive workers' comp industry experience, to help us enhance medical outcomes for injured workers, improve our case reserve estimation capabilities, and lighten the administrative burdens for our claims professionals.

第二季度該部門的前一年事故準備金沒有變化。我們正準備推出一些工具，透過使用人工智慧以及核保和理賠數據分析來幫助我們應對充滿挑戰的市場條件，從而提高獲利能力、生產力和效率。最近，我們與CLARA Analytics（一家領先的人工智慧服務提供商，擁有豐富的工人賠償行業經驗）簽訂了一項協議，以幫助我們改善受傷工人的醫療結果，提高我們的案件儲備估算能力，並減輕我們索賠的行政負擔專業人士。

We will be leveraging their platform to address various aspects of escalating medical costs, including their medical document intelligence platform that helps direct care to the best performing providers and their tool to help identify high severity claims early in the claims life cycle.

我們將利用他們的平台來解決醫療成本不斷上升的各個方面，包括他們的醫療文件智慧平台，幫助將護理直接提供給表現最好的提供者，以及他們的工具，幫助在索賠生命週期的早期識別高嚴重性索賠。

These new capabilities are leveraging the integrated policy, claims risk management and billing systems that we put in place in this segment at the beginning of 2024. We expect CLARA to be contributing to our processes in the fourth quarter of 2024. As I said last quarter, our long history in both Medical Professional Liability and Workers' Compensation has taught us that these cyclical lines will respond to our focused efforts.

這些新功能利用了我們於 2024 年初在該細分市場部署的整合保單、索賠風險管理和計費系統。我們預計 CLARA 將在 2024 年第四季為我們的流程做出貢獻。正如我上個季度所說，我們在醫療專業責任和工人賠償方面的悠久歷史告訴我們，這些週期性線路將對我們的集中努力做出回應。

We remain confident in our ability to ultimately achieve underwriting profitability in both businesses despite current market conditions, but our headwind is keeping us from achieving our goals as quickly as we would like. We continue to choose to shrink our book in some markets while we wait for conditions to improve so that we can then turn our focus to growth. But we will not compromise to achieve a short term fix at the expense of protecting our balance sheet and our insureds over the long-term. We know that maintaining our discipline will be key to delivering positive long-term results.

儘管目前的市場狀況，我們仍然對我們最終在兩項業務中實現承保盈利的能力充滿信心，但我們的逆風使我們無法盡快實現我們的目標。我們繼續選擇縮減某些市場的帳面規模，同時等待情況好轉，以便我們可以將重點轉向成長。但我們不會為了實現短期解決方案而妥協，而犧牲長期保護我們的資產負債表和被保險人的利益。我們知道，保持紀律是取得積極的長期成果的關鍵。

I think you'll see more signs of our progress as Dana looks further into the results. Dana?

我想，當 Dana 進一步研究結果時，您會看到更多我們取得進展的跡象。達納？

Thanks, Ned. I'm going to dive a bit deeper into aspects of the Specialty P&C and Workers' Compensation segments and overall results before turning to investments. As Ned noted, for Specialty P&C, net written premiums were essentially flat. We're pleased with the stable retention we're seeing overall, even as rates improve.

謝謝，內德。在轉向投資之前，我將更深入地探討專業財產保險和工人賠償領域的各個方面以及整體結果。正如內德指出的那樣，特種財產險的淨承保保費基本上持平。即使費率有所提高，我們對整體穩定的保留率感到滿意。

The segment's net loss ratio improvement of 2 points was driven by the progress we're making on the current accident year loss ratio in our MPL business. In addition, net favorable prior accident year reserve development of $6 million reflected better actual loss emergence than expected from our more in-depth second quarter actuarial review.

該部門的淨損失率提高了 2 個百分點，這是由於我們在 MPL 業務中當前事故年損失率方面取得的進展所取得的進展。此外，上一事故年的淨有利準備金發展為 600 萬美元，反映出實際損失情況比我們更深入的第二季精算審查所預期的要好。

The better loss ratio was partially offset by a higher expense ratio as last year's expense ratio benefited from higher ceding commission income from a large tail policy, which is an offset to expense. For Workers' Compensation, gross written premiums were down just over 3%. This was due to a change in our EPUB estimate retention losses and renewal rate decreases partially offset by higher audit premium.

較高的費用率部分抵消了較好的損失率，因為去年的費用率受益於大尾保單的較高分保佣金收入，這是對費用的抵消。工傷賠償方面，總承保保費下降了 3% 多一點。這是由於我們對 EPUB 保留損失的估計發生了變化，續訂率下降被較高的審計費用部分抵消。

The segments combined ratio was 113.2%, reflecting the higher current accident year net loss ratio as well as a 1 point increase in the expense ratio, largely due to higher compensation related costs. Across all of our segments, including corporate, expenses and expense ratios are higher than last year as we had anticipated. Full-year 2023 expenses were reduced by about $7 million by nonrecurring benefits that we've talked about in the past.

分部綜合成本率為 113.2%，反映了當前事故年度淨損失率較高以及費用率增加 1 個百分點，這主要是由於賠償相關成本較高。正如我們預期的那樣，我們所有的部門（包括企業部門）的費用和費用比率都高於去年。我們過去討論過的非經常性福利使 2023 年全年費用減少了約 700 萬美元。

This year, compensation related costs are running higher on our slightly lower overall headcount. Turning to investment results. This was an excellent quarter, net investment income rose by $5 million or 16% as we continue to take advantage of the higher rate environment. New purchase yields in the quarter were 6% or 260 basis points higher than our average book yield of 3.5%. The fixed maturity portfolio remains high quality with 92% in investment grade bonds with an average duration of just over three years.

今年，由於我們的整體員工人數略有減少，與薪資相關的成本不斷上升。轉向投資成果。這是一個出色的季度，隨著我們繼續利用較高的利率環境，淨投資收入成長了 500 萬美元，即 16%。本季新購買收益率比我們 3.5% 的平均帳面收益率高出 6%，即 260 個基點。固定期限投資組合保持高品質，其中 92% 為投資等級債券，平均期限略高於三年。

We continue to manage our asset duration to largely match that of our liabilities and to optimize our portfolio to generate yield. We recorded an $8 million gain from our investments in limited partnerships and LLC, reported as equity and earnings of unconsolidated subsidiaries. These typically report on a one quarter lag and they are continuing to produce strong returns.

我們繼續管理資產期限，使其與負債期限基本匹配，並優化投資組合以產生收益。我們透過對有限合夥企業和有限責任公司的投資獲得了 800 萬美元的收益，以未合併子公司的股本和收益形式報告。這些報告通常會出現四分之一的滯後，但它們仍在繼續產生強勁的回報。

Equity and earnings also included a $400,000 benefit related to our tax credit partnership investments due to a decrease in our estimate of our allocable share of partnership operating losses. Overall, our tax credit partnership investments are nearing the end of their life cycle and amortization of partnership operating losses and associated tax benefits are expected to be nominal going forward.

股權和收益還包括與我們的稅收抵免合夥企業投資相關的 40 萬美元收益，這是由於我們對合夥企業經營虧損中可分配份額的估計減少了。總體而言，我們的稅收抵免合夥企業投資已接近其生命週期的終點，合夥企業經營虧損和相關稅收優惠的攤銷預計未來將是名義上的。

I also wanted to point out that the primary difference between net income and operating income was net investment gains of $3 million, which included a final determination related to the outstanding contingent consideration associated with our 2021 acquisition of NORCAL. As you may recall, we have been carrying a liability for amounts potentially owed to certain former NORCAL members.

我還想指出，淨利潤和營業收入之間的主要差異是 300 萬美元的淨投資收益，其中包括與我們 2021 年收購 NORCAL 相關的未償或有對價相關的最終決定。您可能還記得，我們​​一直對可能欠某些前 NORCAL 會員的金額負責。

In June, the final steps required to resolve the contingency were complete, resulting in no additional consideration due. The $6.5 million liability was fully reduced in the quarter and recognized through net investment gains and losses. We remain very bullish on the long-term value that NORCAL brings to ProAssurance, in particular our expansion into the California market.

6 月，解決突發事件所需的最後步驟已完成，無需額外考慮。650 萬美元的負債在本季完全減少，並透過淨投資損益確認。我們仍然非常看好 NORCAL 為 ProAssurance 帶來的長期價值，特別是我們對加州市場的擴張。

Finally, adjusted book value per share was just over $26. Management looks at this metric as it includes about $4 per share of embedded unrealized holding losses, primarily attributable to our fixed maturity portfolio. We have both the intent and ability to hold the related securities until maturity. Should bond yields decline or as our portfolio matures, those unrealized losses will accrete back to book value.

最後，調整後每股帳面價值略高於 26 美元。管理層關注這一指標，因為它包括每股約 4 美元的嵌入未實現持有損失，主要歸因於我們的固定期限投資組合。我們有意願也有能力持有相關證券直至到期。如果債券殖利率下降或隨著我們的投資組合成熟，這些未實現的損失將重新回到帳面價值。

Further, with our current investment leverage at three times GAAP equity, there is upside to book value as we believe bond yields will continue to be accretive. To close, let me reiterate that we remain committed to protecting our balance sheet and our insureds over the long-term. We are seeing signs that our actions are delivering pricing levels that meet our objectives, and we will continue to be intentional on capital management. Ned?

此外，由於我們目前的投資槓桿是公認會計原則權益的三倍，因此帳面價值還有上升空間，因為我們相信債券殖利率將繼續增加價值。最後，讓我重申，我們仍然致力於長期保護我們的資產負債表和被保險人。我們看到有跡象表明，我們的行動正在提供符合我們目標的定價水平，我們將繼續有意識地進行資本管理。內德？

Thanks, Dana. I just want to remind everyone that we know there is much more to be done to achieve our goal of sustained profitability. But we are encouraged by the progress we are making with six month operating earnings $0.31 per share. We expect continued progress and look forward to sharing results in coming quarters.

謝謝，達納。我只是想提醒大家，我們知道要實現持續獲利的目標還有很多工作要做。但我們對所取得的進展感到鼓舞，六個月的營運收益為每股 0.31 美元。我們期望持續取得進展，並期待在未來幾季分享成果。

Thank you, Ned. Operator, that concludes our prepared remarks. We're ready for questions.

謝謝你，內德。接線員，我們準備好的發言到此結束。我們已準備好接受提問。

(Operator Instructions) Matt Carletti, JMP.

（操作員說明）Matt Carletti，JMP。

Dana, I just wanted to follow-up on your last point there about. Good morning, Ned. Dana, your last point on being intentional about capital management. I'm hoping you guys can maybe expand on just how you're viewing capital management at the moment.

達納，我只是想跟進你的最後一點。早上好，內德。達納（Dana），您關於有意資本管理的最後一點。我希望你們能進一步闡述你們目前對資本管理的看法。

I mean, obviously, you guys are remaining very cautious on growing the business, given market conditions and the stocks trading. I think whatever version of book value you want to look at very good discounts to it. So just if you could update us on how you view uses of capital or what you're holding on to capital for versus buybacks and other opportunities.

我的意思是，考慮到市場狀況和股票交易，你們顯然對發展業務保持非常謹慎的態度。我認為無論你想看什麼版本的帳面價值，都可以得到很好的折扣。因此，請您向我們介紹您如何看待資本的使用，或您持有資本的目的與回購和其他機會的情況。

Sure, Matt. Good morning. There is an awful lot to consider when we're thinking about capital management. And for us, we're remaining committed to capital sufficiency. All the while being very mindful about our AM Best rating, risk based capital requirements that we need at the statutory entity as well as our liquidity needs. We're very comfortable with our capital position.

當然，馬特。早安.當我們考慮資本管理時，需要考慮很多事情。對我們來說，我們仍然致力於資本充足。同時非常注意我們的 AM Best 評級、法定實體所需的基於風險的資本要求以及我們的流動性需求。我們對我們的資本狀況非常滿意。

However, the volatility in the marketplace does remain. So we're considering what regulators and AM Best may be thinking as we navigate current market conditions, which really just lead us to continue to be cautious. All that said, I don't want to leave you with the wrong impression. AM Best has recently affirmed our ratings in late June. That's how we're thinking about it.

然而，市場的波動依然存在。因此，我們正在考慮監管機構和 AM Best 在應對當前市場狀況時的想法，這實際上只會導致我們繼續保持謹慎。話雖如此，我不想給你留下錯誤的印象。AM Best 最近在 6 月下旬確認了我們的評級。我們就是這麼想的。

Okay, great. Thank you. That's all I have today.

好的，太好了。謝謝。這就是我今天所擁有的一切。

Paul Newsome, Piper Sandler.

保羅‧紐瑟姆，派珀‧桑德勒。

Great. Good morning. Thanks for the call. Couple remodeling questions. One, probably a simple one, the tax credit impact going away. I think historically it's been a 10%-ish effective tax rate. With those tax credits going away, does that put it back up to the statutory rate, or is it something higher with state taxes or any guidance that are helpful that would be useful for the effective tax rate?

偉大的。早安.感謝您的來電。情侶改造問題。一，可能很簡單，稅收抵免影響消失。我認為從歷史上看，有效稅率一直是 10% 左右。隨著這些稅收抵免的消失，這是否會使其恢復到法定稅率，或者州稅或任何對有效稅率有用的指導是否會更高？

Paul, I may need to follow-up with you on this particular question. I wouldn't expect our -- I mean, the tax credits associated with these investments have been diminishing over time, so I don't think they've had a dramatic impact on our effective tax rate. But to answer you specifically, I'd need to do some additional follow-up.

保羅，我可能需要就這個特定問題與你跟進。我不認為我們的——我的意思是，與這些投資相關的稅收抵免會隨著時間的推移而減少，所以我認為它們不會對我們的有效稅率產生巨大影響。但為了具體回答你，我需要做一些額外的後續工作。

Okay. Maybe you could give us a little sense of the -- is this a good run rate for the expense ratio, given all the moving parts of the last year or so?

好的。也許你可以讓我們了解一下——考慮到去年左右的所有變化，這對於費用比率來說是一個很好的運行率嗎？

Yes. I thought that certainly there might be a question around expenses, Paul. And so what I really wanted to make sure that listeners understood was that the year-over-year change, quarter-over-quarter change that we have in our consolidated level of expenses is largely driven by compensation related costs, and driving that increase higher is in part, amounts accrued for performance related incentive plans due to improvement in the related performance metrics and to a lesser degree, annual merit adjustments.

是的。我認為肯定存在關於費用的問題，保羅。因此，我真正想確保聽眾理解的是，我們的綜合費用水準的同比變化、環比變化很大程度上是由薪酬相關成本驅動的，並推動了這一增長更高部分是由於相關績效指標的改進以及較小程度的年度績效調整而與績效相關的激勵計劃應計的金額。

And you heard me say in opening remarks that our employee count is slightly down in the quarter. We have been -- we will continue to scrutinize positions that come open to determine the necessity, really, of filling those vacancies. That's a very important aspect of our expense management efforts, especially as our top line decreases. So I would say it's as good as any run rate for expenses, but we are continuing to be mindful of expenses.

你們聽到我在開場白中說，本季我們的員工人數略有下降。我們一直——我們將繼續仔細審查空缺職位，以確定填補這些空缺的真正必要性。這是我們費用管理工作的一個非常重要的方面，特別是在我們的收入下降的情況下。所以我想說，它與任何費用運行率一樣好，但我們將繼續關注費用。

Great.

偉大的。

Back on your first question, there is a tax rate reconciliation in our queue that will probably give you more details about how we arrive at the effective rate.

回到你的第一個問題，我們的隊列中有一個稅率調節表，它可能會為你提供有關我們如何得出有效稅率的更多詳細資訊。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Gregory Peters, Raymond James.

格雷戈里彼得斯，雷蒙德詹姆斯。

Hi. Good morning, everyone. Two quick questions. Just on broader macro environment. In the quarter, have you seen any new entrants come into the marketplace? Or is the competitive pressures coming from existing players?

你好。大家早安。兩個簡單的問題。只是在更廣泛的宏觀環境上。在本季度，您是否看到有新進入者進入市場？還是來自現有玩家的競爭壓力？

I'd say you're talking about the Medical Professional Liability space, Greg.

我想說你正在談論醫療專業責任領域，格雷格。

Yes, sorry about that.

是的，對此感到抱歉。

Yes. No, no new entrants. It's really the competitive landscape has really not changed substantially. Every now and then we'll hear about someone entering into the marketplace, but typically they're not making much of an impact at all.

是的。不，沒有新進入者。事實上，競爭格局並沒有實質變化。我們時不時會聽到有人進入市場，但通常他們根本不會產生太大影響。

Yes. I seem to pick up some of the same news, and I'm just curious whether it's piercing any of your business. So that's the basis of the question.

是的。我似乎也看到了一些相同的新聞，我只是好奇它是否會影響你的生意。這就是問題的基礎。

Yes. No, we're not really. Sorry, I didn't mean to talk. No. Not to go back on that. No, we're really not seeing any new entrants, make any ways in our parts of the market.

是的。不，我們真的不是。抱歉，我不是故意說話的。不。不要回頭。不，我們確實沒有看到任何新進入者在我們的市場領域做出任何努力。

Okay. And then just another macro question. I know it's an ongoing battle dealing with severity, et cetera. It's become, as you know, quite topical for longer tailed lines of liability businesses across many of the companies writing that business. Any change, I know it's a state-by-state thing, but any change in attorney representation rates? Are you seeing any increase or decrease in attorney involvement in your book of business?

好的。然後是另一個宏觀問題。我知道這是一場持續不斷的戰鬥，涉及嚴重性等等。如您所知，對於許多從事該業務的公司的長尾責任險業務來說，它已成為相當熱門的話題。有什麼變化嗎？您發現律師在您的業務中的參與程度有增加還是減少嗎？

No, not seeing any material changes there.

不，沒有看到任何實質變化。

Okay. And then finally, just going to the workers' comp business, the results you're reporting are different from most of your peers, and maybe you can just explain. And by that, I mean your combined ratio seemed to be higher with less favorable reserve development, maybe you could just help us bridge the gap between what we're seeing with a lot of other peers in workers' comp and what we're seeing at your company. Thank you.

好的。最後，就工人補償業務而言，您報告的結果與大多數同行不同，也許您可以解釋一下。我的意思是，在儲備金開發不太有利的情況下，你們的綜合比率似乎更高，也許你們可以幫助我們彌合我們在工人補償中與許多其他同行所看到的情況和我們所看到的情況之間的差距在你的公司。謝謝。

Yes. It's a good question, Greg. And certainly we can talk about what we're seeing. I can't speak for our peers and what they may be seeing or what they may be doing. I think there's two parts to your question. On the reserve development, you'll recall that we have a relatively short tailed Workers' Compensation book and close claims faster and more aggressively than a lot of the marketplace.

是的。這是個好問題，格雷格。當然，我們可以談論我們所看到的。我無法代表我們的同行以及他們可能看到的或他們可能正在做的事情。我認為你的問題有兩個部分。在儲備金開發方面，您會記得我們的工人賠償帳簿相對較短，並且比市場上的許多公司更快、更積極地結束索賠。

And as a consequence of that, the absolute reserves that we hold for the Workers' Compensation book are pretty small. So there's less opportunity for favorable development because we've closed the claims. Now the flip side of that is there's also a lot less potential for things to go sideways or wrong because the claims are closed.

因此，我們為工人賠償帳簿持有的絕對準備金非常小。因此，由於我們已經結束了索賠，因此有利發展的機會減少了。現在，另一方面是，由於索賠已經結束，事情出現偏差或出錯的可能性也大大減少。

I also think that because we do close claims faster and maybe stand on top of our claims a little more quickly, we see and respond to the trends in inflation and in health care perhaps faster than some of our peers are doing. And so what we're responding to is elevated costs of care stemming from inflation in the medical area and we're responding to that both as we mentioned and how we're approaching claims and also as we approach individual states' markets and trying to counter the negative trend in rate that the market is being influenced by.

我還認為，由於我們更快地結清索賠，並且可能更快地掌握索賠，因此我們可能比一些同行更快地看到並回應通貨膨脹和醫療保健的趨勢。因此，我們正在應對的是醫療領域的通貨膨脹導致的護理成本上升，正如我們所提到的以及我們如何處理索賠，以及當我們接近各州的市場並試圖對抗市場受到影響的利率負面趨勢。

Okay. Makes sense. Thanks for the answers.

好的。有道理。感謝您的回答。

Sure.

當然。

Mark Hughes, Truist.

馬克‧休斯，真理主義者。

Yes. Thank you. Good morning. Ned, did you give a specific rate number for workers' comp for the quarter?

是的。謝謝。早安.內德，您是否給出了本季工人薪資的具體費率數字？

Rate number? Price change numbers. Kevin, I'm going to go refer to you for that. I think it was down 0%, but I want Kevin to confirm.

率數？價格變動數字。凱文，我要去請教你。我認為下降了 0%，但我想讓凱文確認。

Yes. So rate this quarter was down 3%, in the prior year quarter it was down 7%.

是的。因此，本季的利率下降了 3%，去年同期下降了 7%。

Okay. Very good. Anything in the reserve development in the recent accident year, say 2020, 2023, anything you've observed around frequency or severity that stands out aside from the broader issues that you discussed around social inflation?

好的。非常好。在最近的事故年份（例如 2020 年、2023 年）的儲備發展中，除了您討論的有關社會通貨膨脹的更廣泛問題之外，您在頻率或嚴重程度方面觀察到的任何事情？

Yes. Nothing that I would point to in those years.

是的。那些年我沒有指出什麼。

Yes. Do you think, if interest rates are coming down, do you think that might have some impact on pricing? If we think about your -- some of the mutuals have big investment portfolios. Do you think there's some cash flow underwriting going on, and therefore lower interest rates might help stiffen up the pricing?

是的。您認為，如果利率下降，您認為這可能會對定價產生一些影響嗎？如果我們考慮一下—有些互助機構擁有龐大的投資組合。您是否認為正在進行一些現金流承保，因此較低的利率可能有助於提高定價？

Yes, I'd like to think that would be the case, Mark. Certainly, there are a lot of companies that are benefiting from high levels of investment income, allowing them to write a combined ratio as well above 100. And so if we had some downward pressure on those returns, it certainly should result in a reaction from the pricing standpoint.

是的，我想情況確實如此，馬克。當然，有許多公司受益於高水準的投資收益，使他們的綜合比率遠高於 100。因此，如果我們對這些回報面臨一些下行壓力，那麼從定價的角度來看，它肯定會導致反應。

I think the other challenge, though, is these companies, a lot of these mutual companies tend to be very overcapitalized, and so that mutes their response, I think, even in the downward interest rate environment.

不過，我認為另一個挑戰是這些公司，其中許多共同公司往往資本過剩，因此我認為，即使在利率下行的環境下，他們的反應也會減弱。

Yes. Okay. And then, anything about the California market with NORCAL acquisition? Any distinct pricing competitive trends there, or is it pretty similar to the broader picture?

是的。好的。那麼，收購 NORCAL 後對加州市場有何影響？有沒有明顯的定價競爭趨勢，或與更廣泛的情況非常相似？

Pretty similar to the broader picture. They had some changes to the tort reform in California a couple of years ago. I think we're beginning to see a little bit of that impact, but it's not huge. But I think the market's well-positioned to respond to that from a pricing perspective.

與更廣泛的情況非常相似。幾年前，他們對加州的侵權法改革進行了一些修改。我認為我們已經開始看到一些影響，但影響並不大。但我認為市場已經準備好從定價角度對此做出回應。

When I think about the California market, it's the writers in California all have pretty good scale and are generally good behaviors. And so I would say that we don't see as much irrational pricing, by and large, in the California market as we do some of the other markets we compete in.

當我想到加州市場時，加州的作家都具有相當大的規模，而且普遍都是良好的行為。因此，我想說，總的來說，我們在加州市場上看到的不合理定價並不像我們參與競爭的其他一些市場那麼多。

(Operator Instructions) Bob Farnam, Janney.

（操作員說明）Bob Farnam，Janney。

Thanks. Good morning. Just another question on Workers' Comp, and I'm just trying to figure out how to model going forward. So you've made these insure tech investments, including CLARA analytics. I'm just trying to get a feel. Is there any way you can quantify how much you've spent on these investments and how -- what savings you're going to see over time?

謝謝。早安.這是關於工人補償的另一個問題，我只是想弄清楚如何繼續建模。因此，您已經進行了這些保險技術投資，包括 CLARA 分析。我只是想感受一下。有什麼方法可以量化您在這些投資上花費了多少錢以及隨著時間的推移您將看到哪些節省？

Kevin, I'll let you answer, please.

凱文，我會讓你回答的。

Yes, I would say the upfront costs on a lot of the insure tech has been minimal. Bob, it's difficult to quantify the benefits of it. I think it's going to be significant. CLARA scores medical providers, gets you to the right doctor, severity predictions, alerts on attorney involvement. So I think over the next couple of quarters, we'll get a better feel for it.

是的，我想說很多保險技術的前期成本是微乎其微的。鮑勃，很難量化它的好處。我認為這將是意義重大的。CLARA 對醫療服務提供者進行評分，讓您找到合適的醫生、嚴重程度預測、律師參與警報。所以我認為在接下來的幾個季度裡，我們會對它有更好的感覺。

On the guidewire underwriting investment, where we're going to be using it predominantly for smaller business, there is a significant loss ratio advantage for accounts, say, under 50,000 versus accounts over 50. It's low-double-digits. And the goal there is to incrementally grow that small book of business that has the best loss ratio. But it's hard for me to say without these things being implemented as to exactly what it is. But expect CLARA to be extremely favorable and expect to grow the small book of business using guidewire.

在 Guidewire 承保投資方面，我們將主要用於小型企業，因此帳戶的損失率有顯著的優勢，例如 50,000 以下的帳戶與 50 以上的帳戶相比。這是低兩位數。我們的目標是逐步擴大損失率最高的小規模業務。但如果這些事情沒有實施，我很難說它到底是什麼。但預計 CLARA 會非常有利，並預計使用導絲擴大小額業務。

Okay. I didn't expect you to have any definite there. So I guess more broadly, with the continuing rate declines in Workers' Comp. Are you thinking that your accident year loss ratios may actually improve from here because of the investments, or is it still going to be under pressure because of the rate environment?

好的。我沒想到你會有任何明確的說法。因此，我更廣泛地猜測，隨著工人收入的持續下降。您是否認為您的事故年損失率實際上可能會因投資而有所改善，或者是否仍會因利率環境而面臨壓力？

I think it's going to be under -- look, we're down 4 points from six months ago. We're doing a lot on the medical care management side. From a PPO network perspective, there's a lot of headwinds with vertical integration. Fee schedules are going up. So it's a difficult question to answer, but my expectation is we'll continue to improve. I realize I'm not directly answering your question because it's hard to predict the future.

我認為它會低於——看，我們比六個月前下降了 4 個百分點。我們在醫療管理方面做了很多工作。從 PPO 網路的角度來看，垂直整合存在著許多阻力。費用表正在漲。所以這是一個很難回答的問題，但我的期望是我們會繼續改進。我意識到我沒有直接回答你的問題，因為很難預測未來。

Yes. No. All right. I guess we'll just have to keep an eye on it over the next few quarters to see how things are revolving. Just curious if we can get any jump start on the impact, so. All right. Thanks.

是的。不。好的。我想我們只需要在接下來的幾個季度密切關注，看看事情進展如何。只是好奇我們是否能在影響方面取得任何進展，所以。好的。謝謝。

Thank you. At this stage, we have no further questions via the telephone lines, so I'll hand back over to Heather Wietzel for any closing or final remarks.

謝謝。在此階段，我們無法透過電話線提出進一步的問題，因此我將把閉幕或最後發言交回希瑟‧維策爾 (Heather Wietzel)。

Yes, thank you. And thank you, everyone for joining us today. Feel free to reach out if there are any follow-up questions you'd like address. And, of course, look forward to talking to you again on next quarter's call or on some of the other investor interactions we'll have in the coming months. So thank you.

是的，謝謝。感謝大家今天加入我們。如果您有任何想要解決的後續問題，請隨時與我們聯絡。當然，期待在下個季度的電話會議或未來幾個月我們將進行的其他一些投資者互動中再次與您交談。所以謝謝你。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的加入。現在您可以斷開線路。