Pioneer Power Solutions Inc (PPSI) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Pioneer Power third-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Brett Maas of Hayden Investor Relations. Thank you. You may begin.

您好，歡迎參加 Pioneer Power 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。現在我很高興向您介紹主持人，海登投資者關係部門的布雷特·馬斯 (Brett Maas)。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Thank you, operator. The call today will be hosted by Nathan Mazurek, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Walter Michalec, Chief Financial Officer; and Geo Murickan, President of Pioneer Power eMobility. Following this discussion, there will be a Q&A session open to participants on the call. We appreciate the opportunity to review the third quarter financial results and recent business highlights. Before we get started, let me remind you, this call is being recorded and webcast.

謝謝你，接線生。今天的電話會議將由董事長兼執行長 Nathan Mazurek 主持；沃爾特‧米哈萊克 (Walter Michalec)，財務長；以及 Pioneer Power eMobility 總裁 Geo Murickan。討論結束後，將向電話會議參與者開放問答環節。我們很高興有機會回顧第三季的財務表現和近期的業務亮點。在我們開始之前，讓我提醒您，本次通話正在錄音並進行網路直播。

During this call, management may make forward-looking statements. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions and are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. Please refer to the cautionary text regarding forward-looking statements contained in the earnings release issued earlier today, which applies to the content of the call. I'd like to now turn the call over to Nathan Mazurek, Chairman and CEO. Nathan, please go ahead.

在這次電話會議中，管理階層可能會做出前瞻性陳述。這些陳述是基於目前的預期和假設，並受到可能導致實際結果存在重大差異的風險和不確定性的影響。請參閱今天稍早發布的收益報告中有關前瞻性陳述的警示文本，該文本適用於電話會議的內容。我現在想將電話轉給董事長兼執行長內森·馬祖雷克 (Nathan Mazurek)。內森，請繼續。

Thank you, Brett. Good afternoon, and thank you all for joining us today. As you are likely aware by now, on October 29, we sold our Pioneer Custom Electrical Products, PSEP business unit, whose primary product line is the E-Bloc Integrated Power System to Mill Point Capital, a New York-based private equity group, for $50 million in a cash and equity transaction. More specifically, Pioneer received approximately $48 million in cash proceeds from the sale and in addition, received an approximately 6% equity stake in Mill Point's new Voltaris Electrical Products platform. Concurrently with the purchase of our E-Bloc business, Mill Point also purchased the Jefferson Electric dry-type transformer business from ERMCO as part of its efforts to build Voltaris into a significant provider of power solutions supporting the generational energy transition going on in the United States right now.

謝謝你，布雷特。下午好，感謝大家今天加入我們。您現在可能已經知道，10 月 29 日，我們將 Pioneer Custom Electrical Products（PSEP 業務部門）出售給了總部位於紐約的私募股權集團 Mill Point Capital，該部門的主要產品線是 E-Bloc 整合電力系統。透過現金加股權交易獲得5000 萬美元。更具體地說，Pioneer 從此次出售中獲得了約 4,800 萬美元的現金收益，此外，還獲得了 Mill Point 新 Voltaris Electrical Products 平台約 6% 的股權。在收購我們的 E-Bloc 業務的同時，Mill Point 也從 ERMCO 收購了 Jefferson Electric 乾式變壓器業務，作為其努力將 Voltaris 打造成支持美國正在進行的發電能源轉型的重要電力解決方案提供商的一部分現在的狀態。

We expect the E-Bloc business to continue to grow rapidly and profitably as part of Voltaris, and we are pleased to be original equity owners of this platform. Finally, on November 14, we announced that Pioneer's Board of Directors declared a onetime special cash dividend of $1.50 per share to be paid on January 7, 2025, to shareholders of record as of December 17, 2024. Our Critical Power business is the sole operating business unit that remains in Pioneer after the sale to Mill Point and will indeed be the focus of our prepared remarks. This business is anchored by our E-BOOST mobile charging platform, first introduced in November 2021.

我們預計 E-Bloc 業務將作為 Voltaris 的一部分繼續快速成長並實現盈利，我們很高興成為該平台的原始股權所有者。最後，我們在 11 月 14 日宣布，先鋒公司董事會宣布將於 2025 年 1 月 7 日向截至 2024 年 12 月 17 日在冊的股東支付每股 1.50 美元的一次性特別現金股息。我們的關鍵電力業務是先鋒公司在出售給 Mill Point 後仍保留的唯一營運業務部門，並且確實將成為我們準備好的演講的重點。該業務以我們於 2021 年 11 月首次推出的 E-BOOST 行動充電平台為基礎。

In addition, related service revenue and some traditional on-site and mobile power sales. During the third quarter of 2024, this business delivered outstanding year-over-year revenue growth of 130% and generated positive operating income for the first time since the introduction of the E-BOOST platform in November of 2021. As of the end of the third quarter, our Critical Power segment, inclusive of E-BOOST had a total backlog of approximately $24 million, an increase of about 45% compared to the year-end 2023.

此外，還有相關服務收入以及一些傳統的現場和行動電源銷售。2024 年第三季度，該業務營收年增 130%，並自 2021 年 11 月推出 E-BOOST 平台以來首次實現正營業收入。截至第三季末，我們的關鍵電源業務（包括 E-BOOST）的積壓總額約為 2,400 萬美元，與 2023 年底相比增加了約 45%。

And in fact, this backlog provides the basis for our revenue guidance for 2025. What began with one truck-mounted fast charging solution in November 2021 has evolved into a 2024 revenue projected at $20 million plus for this year, a high-growth business unit. Product scope expansion over the last three-plus years have taken that single truck-mounted unit and spawned E-BOOST Mini, a skid-based DC fast charging solution that can be moved utilizing usually a forklift, E-Boost Mobile, the most prominent and the most active of the E-Boost platform a trailer-based DC fast charging solution that can be pulled by a truck or tractor.

事實上，這項積壓訂單為我們 2025 年的營收指引奠定了基礎。2021 年 11 月推出的車載快速充電解決方案已發展成為 2024 年收入預計將超過 2,000 萬美元的高成長業務部門。在過去三年多的時間裡，產品範圍不斷擴大，已經採用了單一卡車安裝裝置，並催生了E-BOOST Mini，這是一種基於撬裝的直流快速充電解決方案，通常可以使用叉車移動， E-Boost Mobile 是最突出的產品E-Boost 平台中最活躍的是基於拖車的直流快速充電解決方案，可由卡車或拖拉機牽引。

E-Boost G.O.A.T, a truck integrated DC fast charging EV charging solution that invokes the AAA model. And finally, E-Boost Pod, a DC fast charging system integrated into a shipping container for rural, extreme weather regions and/or semi-permanent applications. With each of these solutions, we have proven our ability to innovate and address a rapidly evolving market and to customize our units electrically and/or mechanically to suit the needs of our diverse base of users.

E-Boost G.O.A.T，卡車一體化直流快充電動汽車充電解決方案，呼叫AAA模型。最後是 E-Boost Pod，這是一種整合到貨櫃中的直流快速充電系統，適用於農村、極端天氣地區和/或半永久性應用。透過這些解決方案，我們已經證明了我們創新和應對快速發展的市場的能力，以及在電氣和/或機械方面定制我們的設備以滿足不同用戶群需求的能力。

E-Boost has become synonymous in the industry for reliable and sustainably powered off-grid mobile EV charging solutions. To date, E-Boost has delivered over 20,000 unique vehicle charging sessions and over 400 megawatts of sustainable off-grid power. Innovation has not been limited to product design either. In August this year, we announced the groundbreaking collaboration with SparkCharge, the original and to date, the largest charging as a service provider in the United States.

E-Boost 已成為業界可靠且可持續供電的離網移動電動車充電解決方案的代名詞。迄今為止，E-Boost 已提供超過 20,000 個獨特的車輛充電會話和超過 400 兆瓦的可持續離網電力。創新也不僅限於產品設計。今年 8 月，我們宣布與 SparkCharge 進行突破性合作，SparkCharge 是美國最早且迄今為止最大的充電即服務供應商。

Through this collaboration, we aim to drive wider adoption of mobile EV charging, integrating battery energy storage with our E-Boost system and SparkCharge's mobile battery energy storage systems. Together, we believe we can unlock new value in the mobile EV charging market and accelerate technological advancements as we work towards economical and scalable net zero charging solutions. Since August, we have delivered two E-Boost units to SparkCharge and expect to deliver approximately 10 more E-Boost units in 2025.

透過此次合作，我們的目標是推動行動電動車充電的更廣泛採用，將電池儲能與我們的 E-Boost 系統和 SparkCharge 的行動電池儲能係統整合。我們相信，透過共同努力開發經濟且可擴展的淨零充電解決方案，我們可以在行動電動車充電市場釋放新價值，並加速技術進步。自 8 月以來，我們已向 SparkCharge 交付了兩台 E-Boost 裝置，預計在 2025 年將再交付約 10 台 E-Boost 裝置。

In addition, we have identified tremendous opportunities for growth across a variety of vertical markets and diverse use cases, including bus fleets, ports, airports, municipal, municipalities and utilities that are proceeding with the electrification of their vehicle fleets. We continue to believe the opportunities for growing our e-mobility business are massive and with proceeds from the sale of PSEP and zero debt. We have the capital necessary to fund our growth plans over the next several years. We are initiating guidance for 2025 of revenue between $27 million and $29 million.

此外，我們還發現了各種垂直市場和不同用例的巨大成長機會，包括正在推進車隊電氣化的公車車隊、港口、機場、市政當局和公用事業公司。我們仍然相信，透過出售 PSEP 和零債務來獲得收益，發展我們的電動車業務的機會是巨大的。我們有必要的資本來資助我們未來幾年的成長計劃。我們正在啟動 2025 年營收預測在 2,700 萬美元至 2,900 萬美元之間的目標。

As a result of the PSEP sale, we are a smaller business and we will likely see some variability quarter-to-quarter. However, looking across the full year of 2025, we are confident in our ability to meet this guidance. We expect our revenue for 2025 to be primarily derived from sales and rental of our E-Boost product line as well as service and maintenance of set equipment. Breaking it down a bit further, we expect to generate approximately $17 million in revenue from the sale and rental of our equipment and approximately $10 million plus from our service and maintenance business.

由於 PSEP 出售，我們的業務規模較小，我們可能會看到季度與季度之間的一些變化。然而，展望 2025 年全年，我們對實現這項指導目標充滿信心。我們預計 2025 年的收入將主要來自 E-Boost 產品線的銷售和租賃以及成套設備的服務和維護。進一步細分，我們預計設備銷售和租賃收入約為 1,700 萬美元，服務和維護業務收入約為 1,000 萬美元。

Of the approximately $17 million, we expect about $2.5 million to be the subject or be produced by longer-term lease/-rental type agreements. We remain committed to continually innovating to bring new products to the market and expand our streams of revenue for consistent longer-term growth. To that point, we plan on launching our Home E-Boost product in early 2025 through targeted regional distributors and dealers. This product is our first solution focused on the residential and smaller commercial markets.

在約 1700 萬美元中，我們預計約 250 萬美元將成為長期租賃/租賃類型協議的主題或產生。我們仍然致力於不斷創新，將新產品推向市場並擴大我們的收入來源，以實現持續的長期成長。為此，我們計劃在 2025 年初透過目標區域經銷商和經銷商推出 Home E-Boost 產品。該產品是我們第一個專注於住宅和小型商業市場的解決方案。

Home E-Boost addresses the resiliency needs of millions of homeowners across the United States during adverse climate events, which are now too common and frequent and simultaneously addresses the growing need for EV charging at home, especially fast charging and especially during power outages. It was developed to run on existing natural gas lines. And unlike the majority of backup generators currently on the market that are designed to run for minimal or constricted hours per day and per year, it is powered by an EPA-rated prime engine that can operate 24/7.

Home E-Boost 滿足了美國數百萬房主在惡劣氣候事件期間的彈性需求，這些事件現在已經非常普遍和頻繁，同時滿足了家庭電動車充電日益增長的需求，特別是快速充電，尤其是在停電期間。它是為在現有天然氣管道上運作而開發的。與目前市場上大多數設計為每天和每年運行時間最短或受限的備用發電機不同，它由 EPA 級主發動機提供動力，可以 24/7 運行。

This product line also includes a fast-charging option that can address the emerging demand for small businesses, mini mall segment of the market, retail centers, that can utilize the same solution to meet their business uptime needs and additionally provide EV charging to their customers. We are deploying additional commercial resources to focus on and capitalize on this growing market. Another dynamic market that has developed for us is the sale and rental of our E-Boost Pure Power units. With the growth of large battery energy storage systems, BESS and deployment of on-site hydrogen fueling station, there has been increasing demand for power, raw power to recharge the battery units and to power the hydrogen reformers where reliable and powerful grid connections are not available today or will in the near future.

該產品線還包括快速充電選項，可滿足小型企業、小型商場市場、零售中心的新興需求，這些企業可以利用相同的解決方案來滿足其業務正常運行時間需求，並另外為客戶提供電動車充電。我們正在部署額外的商業資源來關注並利用這個不斷成長的市場。我們開發的另一個充滿活力的市場是 E-Boost Pure Power 裝置的銷售和租賃。隨著大型電池儲能係統、BESS 的發展和現場加氫站的部署，對電力、為電池組充電和為氫重整器提供原始電力的需求不斷增加，而這些地方沒有可靠和強大的電網連接。

E-Boost Pure Power offers large, quickly deployable, more sustainably powered units to support the on-site power needs for BESS and hydrogen customers. We will be exploring additional application opportunities for our units as commercial enterprises, particularly businesses that do not have a massive electrical footprint looked to diversify away from a single usually expensive utility connection. Specifically, we are marketing those power solutions to medical/dental type offices and facilities, small surgery centers, restaurants and the like. Finally, in terms of strategic transactions, while there is nothing imminent, we plan to be opportunistic with any acquisitions that we might pursue.

E-Boost Pure Power 提供大型、可快速部署、更永續的動力裝置，以滿足 BESS 和氫客戶的現場電力需求。我們將為我們的商業企業單位探索更多的應用機會，特別是那些沒有大量電力足跡、希望擺脫單一通常昂貴的公用事業連接的企業。具體來說，我們正在向醫療/牙科類型的辦公室和設施、小型手術中心、餐廳等推銷這些電源解決方案。最後，在策略交易方面，雖然沒有什麼迫在眉睫的事情，但我們計劃對我們可能進行的任何收購採取機會主義態度。

We are looking primarily for sizable businesses with at least $25 million in revenue that are indeed complementary to our current E-Boost platform and would be immediately accretive to our earnings. With that, I will turn the call over to Walter.

我們主要尋找收入至少 2500 萬美元的大型企業，這些企業確實可以補充我們目前的 E-Boost 平台，並將立即增加我們的收入。這樣，我會將電話轉給沃特。

Thank you, Nathan, and good afternoon, everyone. As Nathan mentioned earlier, on October 29, we successfully closed on the sale of our L.A. business, PSEP, for $50 million in a cash and equity transaction, primarily cash as we received total gross cash proceeds of $48 million, leaving our balance sheet in a very strong position. Our Critical Power business, which includes the E-Boost solutions, is the sole operating business unit that remains after the sale. So, my prepared remarks only consider the continuing operations, excluding the results of the recently sold PSEP business.

謝謝內森，大家下午好。正如內森之前提到的，10 月29 日，我們透過現金和股權交易以5000 萬美元的價格成功完成了洛杉磯業務PSEP 的出售，主要是現金，因為我們收到的總現金收益為4800 萬美元，使我們的資產負債表處於一個非常強勢的地位。我們的關鍵電源業務（包括 E-Boost 解決方案）是出售後保留的唯一營運業務部門。因此，我準備的言論僅考慮持續經營業務，不包括最近出售的 PSEP 業務的結果。

Third quarter revenue for the Critical Power business segment was $6.4 million compared to $2.8 million in the year ago quarter, an increase of approximately 130%. The increase was primarily due to the growth in our E-Boost business. Our Pioneer E-mobility team was successful at delivering multiple E-Boost charging solutions to a customer in Canada, recognizing approximately $3 million in revenue during the third quarter from that contract alone. To put this in perspective, revenue from our E-Boost business was approximately $1 million in total for all of 2023. Third quarter gross profit for the Critical Power segment was $1.5 million or a gross margin of approximately 24% compared to gross profit of $439,000 or approximately 16% of revenue in the third quarter of last year.

關鍵電源業務部門第三季營收為 640 萬美元，較去年同期的 280 萬美元成長約 130%。這一成長主要是由於我們 E-Boost 業務的成長。我們的 Pioneer E-mobility 團隊成功為加拿大客戶提供了多個 E-Boost 充電解決方案，僅第三季就從該合約中獲得了約 300 萬美元的收入。從這個角度來看，我們的 E-Boost 業務 2023 年全年的總收入約為 100 萬美元。關鍵電源部門第三季的毛利為 150 萬美元，毛利率約為 24%，而去年第三季的毛利為 43.9 萬美元，約佔營收的 16%。

The increase was once again due to the growth in our E-Boost business. Just mentioned the $3 million E-Boost job that shipped during the third quarter, while the extremely dedicated and hard-working team at Pioneer E-Mobility was successful at generating a blended gross margin of approximately 35% on that job. This is roughly 10 percentage points higher than our historical target. We continue to improve as a team, both in our sales and manufacturing efforts, and we expect that our margins will follow suit.

這一成長再次歸功於我們 E-Boost 業務的成長。剛才提到了第三季交付的價值 300 萬美元的 E-Boost 項目，而 Pioneer E-Mobility 極其敬業和勤奮的團隊成功地在該項目上實現了約 35% 的綜合毛利率。這比我們的歷史目標高出約 10 個百分點。作為一個團隊，我們在銷售和製造方面不斷進步，我們預計我們的利潤率也將隨之提高。

During the third quarter of 2024, our Critical Power segment generated operating income of $211,000 compared to generating an operating loss of $621,000 in the third quarter of last year. The $832,000 improvement was primarily due to the large increase in revenue from the sale of our E-Boost solutions and the higher margins we are seeing from that business. Lastly, given the sale of our PSEP business in October, we are updating our revenue guidance for 2024, now expect to recognize between $21 million and $23 million in revenue from continuing operations and indeed also expect to generate significant operating income from the Critical Power segment during the fourth quarter of 2024.

2024 年第三季度，我們的關鍵電源部門實現了 211,000 美元的營業收入，而去年第三季度的營業虧損為 621,000 美元。832,000 美元的成長主要是由於 E-Boost 解決方案銷售收入的大幅增加以及我們從該業務中看到的更高的利潤。最後，鑑於10 月出售了我們的PSEP 業務，我們正在更新2024 年的收入指引，現在預計將透過持續營運確認2,100 萬至2,300 萬美元的收入，並且實際上還預計將從關鍵電力部門產生可觀的營運收入2024 年第四季。

As Nathan mentioned, in 2025, we expect to deliver revenue of $27 million to $29 million for the full year. This concludes my remarks. I will now turn the call back over to the operator for any questions.

正如 Nathan 所提到的，到 2025 年，我們預計全年收入將達到 2,700 萬美元至 2,900 萬美元。我的發言到此結束。如果有任何問題，我現在會將電話轉回給接線生。

(Operator Instructions) Rob Brown, Lake Street Capital.

（操作員說明）Rob Brown，Lake Street Capital。

Congratulations on all the progress. You laid out some good color on the overall market, but I just want to get a little more detail on the demand drivers you're seeing. Are there areas in 2025 that are starting to ramp? Are these customers sort of expanding their operations and these are refill orders at your current customer base? Or how much is new customer wins? And just how do you sort of see the pipeline of activity and what we should watch for in terms of new activity coming through?

祝賀所有的進展。您對整個市場進行了一些良好的闡述，但我只想了解您所看到的更多需求驅動因素的細節。2025 年是否有些地區開始成長？這些客戶是否正在擴大他們的業務，而這些是您目前客戶群的補充訂單？或是新客戶贏得了多少？您如何看待活動的進展以及我們在新活動方面應該注意什麼？

Yes. I didn't break 2025 down in my own head percentage-wise, who's new, who's repeat and by segment and Geo can chime in as well, maybe just if I finish the overall. It's really all of it. Some are repeats. A lot of it is the segment that's being driven by government or quasi-government. So, it's state, city, municipalities, both for electric buses moving the city buses, as we call them, or school bus related, however that particular purchase order comes to us. Those are the big drivers.

是的。我並沒有按照自己的百分比來分解 2025 年，誰是新的，誰是重複的，按細分市場，Geo 也可以插話，也許只要我完成整體。這真的是全部。有些是重複的。其中很大一部分是由政府或準政府推動的部分。因此，無論是州、市、直轄市，或是我們所謂的移動城市公車的電動公車，或是與校車相關的電動公車，無論我們收到的是特定的採購訂單。這些是主要的驅動因素。

And I guess the group that's been very active in trying to determine what they do going forward, but not so active in making final decisions on charging is the package carriers. So, the big Alphas, the Amazons, FedEx, DHL, Postal Service, they've taken in a lot of electrical vehicles, vans, truck, every form really have been a big appetite for that. Haven't made so many charging solutions choices. And we see that unfolding stronger for us in 2025, indeed going into '26. Geo, do you want to add or edit anything that I said?

我猜想，包裹承運商一直非常積極地嘗試確定他們今後要做什麼，但在做出最終收費決定方面卻不太積極。所以，大型阿爾法公司、亞馬遜、聯邦快遞、敦豪速遞、郵政服務，他們已經接收了大量的電動車、貨車、卡車，每種形式確實對此有很大的胃口。還沒有做出這麼多的充電解決方案選擇。我們看到，到 2025 年，甚至進入 26 年，這種趨勢將會更加強勁。Geo，你想添加或編輯我所說的任何內容嗎？

Certainly, Nathan. I think you did cover most of it. We do see, Rob, a more robust business coming from the municipality segment and some related to utilities as they are starting to ramp up the numerous different fleets that are electrifying within a city. We expect to see some electrification on the sanitation side in terms of trash trucks and other things like that. There's also a movement in the electrification of farm equipment and off-highway equipment, especially related to construction.

當然，內森。我想你已經涵蓋了大部分內容。羅布，我們確實看到來自市政部門的更強勁的業務，以及一些與公用事業相關的業務，因為他們開始增加城市內許多不同的電氣化車隊。我們期望在垃圾車和其他類似設施方面看到衛生方面的一些電氣化。農業設備和非公路設備的電氣化也出現了變化，尤其是與建築相關的設備。

So, all of these movements, we expect to start seeing as newer movements as well as we shore up more transit and electric school bus orders. And then on the kind of business model, I know you mentioned a couple of different ways you're going about it to the market. Do you have sort of a preference or do you see one developing? This is in terms of rental versus sort of a product sale. Do you see that developing in one particular way or another? Or what's your sort of view on what you'd like the business to be?

因此，所有這些運動，我們預計將開始視為更新的運動，並支持更多的交通和電動校車訂單。關於商業模式，我知道您提到了幾種不同的推向市場的方式。您有某種偏好或您認為其中一種正在發展嗎？這是就租賃與產品銷售而言的。您認為這種情況會以某種特定的方式發展嗎？或者您對您希望的業務有何看法？

Yes. We'd like more lease rental, whatever you want to call it. We're budgeting 2 1/2 for 2025. I'd really like to see that go up in 2026 to 4 plus. That's very lucrative for us. It's got to be with the right creditworthy type customers. Otherwise, we're better off on the sales side. Many municipalities, you would think they want to lease many buy. That's what they're budgeted for. They believe that their cost of capital is lower in the long term for their citizens doing it that way.

是的。我們想要更多的租賃租金，無論你怎麼稱呼它。我們為 2025 年制定了 2 1/2 的預算。我真的很希望看到這個數字在 2026 年增加到 4+。這對我們來說非常有利可圖。它必須與信譽良好的客戶合作。否則，我們在銷售方面會更好。許多城市，你可能會認為他們想要租賃許多購買的東西。這就是他們的預算。他們相信，從長遠來看，他們的公民這樣做的資本成本會更低。

So, it's buy-only in many of those cases. Some of the package carriers, it's their orientation is the other way. They want to lease everything that they can lease on that basis. We see it going both ways. What's the right move? So, if you use a hypothetical, would we engage in long-term leasing with Amazon, of course, would we do that with somebody who start-up trying some sort of service charging business, maybe not.

因此，在許多情況下，它只是購買。有些包裹承運商，他們的定位是相反的。他們想在此基礎上租賃所有可以租賃的東西。我們看到事情是雙向的。什麼是正確的舉動？所以，如果你使用一個假設，我們會與亞馬遜進行長期租賃嗎？

Then kind of last question is on your production capacity for the E-BOOST business with all the changes, where are you at in terms of production capacity? Do you need to add more? What's your thinking there? Yeah, you're one of the few on the call you've been to Champlain, so, you have an idea. We're trying to keep that size on a steady basis, all the prototyping, all the first articles on jobs.

那麼最後一個問題是關於您的 E-BOOST 業務的生產能力發生了所有變化，您的生產能力處於什麼位置？您需要添加更多嗎？你在那裡想什麼？是的，你是少數幾個去過尚普蘭的電話會議的人之一，所以，你有一個想法。我們正在努力將這個規模保持在穩定的基礎上，所有的原型設計，所有關於工作的第一篇文章。

Truly single or 2-unit type that are very complicated and special, we're going to continue to do in Champlain, and we don't have any reason to expand that particular site. Outside of that, we've been working with a couple of subcontractors to expand capacity without really investing and having it as a fixed cost for ourselves. We're beginning the first ones with one gentleman in Southern California.

真正的單一或兩單元類型非常複雜和特殊，我們將繼續在尚普蘭做，並且我們沒有任何理由擴展該特定網站。除此之外，我們一直在與幾個分包商合作來擴大產能，而無需真正投資並將其作為我們自己的固定成本。我們將與南加州的一位紳士開始第一個活動。

The West California and even Washington, Oregon and those states are representing an outsized portion of projected 2025 revenue. That's a huge pressure relief device for what we need to do in Champlain. Hopefully, over the course of '25, I'd love to develop a similarly well-suited and valuable economical partner on the eastern part of the United States. So, we don't have any plans to expand or take on any more facility than we do right now in Minneapolis.

西加州，甚至華盛頓州、俄勒岡州以及這些州在 2025 年預計收入中所佔的比例很大。對於我們在尚普蘭需要做的事情來說，這是一個巨大的減壓裝置。希望在 25 年期間，我願意在美國東部發展一個同樣合適且有價值的經濟合作夥伴。因此，我們沒有計劃擴建或建造比目前在明尼阿波利斯更多的設施。

(Operator Instructions) Sameer Joshi, H.C. Wainwright.

（操作員說明） Sameer Joshi, H.C.溫賴特。

Congrats on all the progress. A very good color in the prepared remarks, actually, many of my questions were answered there. But I do want to get into what you mentioned about the gross margins on the $3 million order that was delivered being closer to 35%. Was that because of any particular, like was it a rental or a sale? Was there a service component to it? And should we expect like similar levels of gross margins in the coming quarters?

祝賀所有的進展。準備好的發言稿色彩非常好，實際上，我的許多問題都在那裡得到了解答。但我確實想談談您提到的 300 萬美元訂單的毛利率接近 35%。這是因為什麼特殊原因嗎，例如出租還是出售？它有服務組件嗎？我們是否應該預期未來幾季的毛利率水準會類似？

Yeah, that was a sale. Frankly, I expected lower gross margins. It was a very complicated set of units, very, very complicated, rated for 40 below zero, all kinds of other features that they needed to have that we maybe didn't price so well at the beginning. But the team did an amazing job. They also did an amazing job working with certain subcontractors, especially on the mechanical portion. And those guys not only did it faster, but faster and more economically than we might have been able to do it, and we were able to really do the final wiring and electrification of it, which is really where we have more valuable expertise and takes less time.

是的，那是一次銷售。坦白說，我預計毛利率會較低。這是一組非常複雜的單元，非常非常複雜，評分為 40 以下，低於零，還有他們需要的各種其他功能，但我們一開始可能定價不高。但團隊做得非常出色。他們與某些分包商的合作也做得非常出色，尤其是在機械部分。這些人不僅做得更快，而且比我們可能做的更快、更經濟，而且我們能夠真正完成最終的佈線和電氣化，這確實是我們擁有更有價值的專業知識和需要的地方更少的時間。

We actually came in better than I expected. Should we see that all the time. We shoot for that on the E-BOOST sales all the time. I think to the extent that the big variable to us has not been the material. We've probably been doing a little bit better on the material. It's been predicting and budgeting the hours that it takes us to do and test and all the other special things that we do for all the units.

我們實際上比我預期的要好。我們應該一直看到這一點嗎？我們一直致力於 E-BOOST 銷售。我認為對我們來說最大的變數並不是材料。我們可能在材料上做得更好。它一直在預測和預算我們完成和測試所需的時間以及我們為所有單位所做的所有其他特殊事情。

As we've gotten more experience, so we've gotten better at that, too. Finally, when we had -- this was by far the largest quarter we've ever had, probably the largest single event from a sales point of view for the last 3-plus years. The fourth quarter and the first quarter of 2025 will probably be a little higher than that, just the way things are laid out. I think it's going to be instructive to us as well as to where those gross margins come out before we really start modeling out too far out into the future.

隨著我們獲得更多經驗，我們在這方面也做得更好。最後，當我們舉辦的時候——這是迄今為止我們舉辦過的最大的季度，從銷售的角度來看可能是過去三年多來最大的單一活動。2025 年第四季和第一季可能會比這個數字高一點，正如事情的安排一樣。我認為這對我們以及在我們真正開始對未來進行建模之前毛利率的結果都具有指導意義。

Just sticking to sort of the customer diversity here, and you laid out the demand drivers based on Rob's question. In terms of the backlog of $24 million, how many customers are represented in it? What is the cadence? Like most of this it's $17 million of this is sales or rental, I think you mentioned. But the services and maintenance of $10 million, how long is that? Are they 2-, 3-, 4-year contracts?

只要堅持這裡的客戶多樣性，您就可以根據 Rob 的問題列出需求驅動因素。就 2,400 萬美元的積壓而言，其中代表了多少客戶？節奏是什麼？我想您也提到過，與大部分項目一樣，其中 1700 萬美元用於銷售或租賃。但1000萬美元的服務和維護，需要多長時間？他們的合約是2年、3年、4年嗎？

I don't think we have anything like that. That's way, way too out. It's going to be 1 to 3-year type agreements. It depends on the customer and so forth. The cadence is super strong. If you ask for what's comprising the backlog without giving out the names, I'd say the biggest single portion in the backlog is probably school bus related.

我認為我們沒有這樣的東西。這樣，太離譜了。這將是為期 1 到 3 年的協議。這取決於客戶等等。節奏感超強。如果您詢問積壓的內容而不給出名稱，我會說積壓中最大的部分可能與校車相關。

Then the second biggest broad category is going to be fleet related, whether it's a municipal electric fleet, which includes anything and everything sometimes or it's going to be a private fleet-related. But that would be the single largest.

第二大類別將與車隊相關，無論是市政電動車隊（有時包括所有東西），還是與私人車隊相關。但這將是最大的一個。

Then just one last one. Of course, you probably will be sitting on $25 million to $30 million after January, I think, whenever you distribute your dividend.

然後就只有最後一張了。當然，我想，一月份之後，每當你分配股息時，你可能會坐擁 2500 萬至 3000 萬美元的資金。

Yes, January 7.

是的，1 月 7 日。

You did mention your intention, you are opportunistic on the M&A front. Have you already identified potential targets to acquire?

你確實提到了你的意圖，你在併購方面是機會主義的。您是否已經確定了潛在的收購目標？

In a general way, yes. I've done a little work on that. We're not in a big rush. We are and we aren't. It has to be super compelling for us. We can't after everything that we've gone through, it can't be a cash drain on us.

一般來說，是的。我在這方面做了一些工作。我們並不著急。我們是，又不是。它對我們來說必須非常有吸引力。我們不能在經歷了一切之後，它不能成為我們的現金消耗。

It's got to be somewhat accretive. It's got to be some redundancies, and it's got to somehow enhance or we're getting more advanced technology that enhances what we're doing in a quicker way. We're open, Sameer, we're open to suggestions.

一定是有一定的累積性的。必須有一些冗餘，並且必須以某種方式增強，或者我們正在獲得更先進的技術，以更快的方式增強我們正在做的事情。Sameer，我們持開放態度，我們願意接受建議。

May I squeeze one more on the SG&A front? It seems that your segment SG&A was around $1 million for the business that you retain currently. But I'm sure there must be some overhead that gets added on to it from the corporate overhead after the divestiture. Do you have any outlook on what level of SG&A or as a percent of revenue we should expect going forward?

我可以在 SG&A 方面再加一筆嗎？您目前保留的業務部門的 SG&A 似乎約為 100 萬美元。但我確信剝離後的公司管理費用中一定會增加一些管理費用。您對我們未來應該預期的 SG&A 水準或占收入的百分比有何展望？

For overall for the business going into 2025, how we budgeted it?

對於進入 2025 年的整體業務，我們如何制定預算？

Yes, because in the Q, you have laid it out for corporate, for the divested business and for the continuing business?

是的，因為在問題中，您已經為公司、剝離業務和持續業務進行了佈局？

Yes, right. So, we do. I'll let Walter answer.

是的，沒錯。所以，我們這麼做了。我會讓沃特回答。

Yes, Sameer, thank you for your question. Overall, we are going to seek to cut costs here at corporate. We're expecting as a percentage of revenue at corporate for the overhead expenses to come in roughly 12% or so of revenue.

是的，薩米爾，謝謝你的問題。總的來說，我們將尋求削減公司成本。我們預計間接費用占公司收入的比例約為收入的 12% 左右。

As we scale and grow the Critical Power business, you mentioned that there might be some corporate overhead layered in there. It actually isn't, we separate the two. So, the SG&A expense over at the Critical Power business will be somewhere around that $1 million mark. Then it all really just depends on how much R&D work we do.

隨著我們擴大和發展關鍵電源業務，您提到其中可能存在一些公司管理費用。其實不然，我們把兩者分開。因此，關鍵電力業務的 SG&A 費用將在 100 萬美元左右。那麼這一切其實取決於我們做了多少研發工作。

Rob Romano, a private investor.

羅布·羅馬諾，私人投資者。

Do you think you can be profitable on the revenue guidance next year?

您認為明年的收入指導能夠獲利嗎？

Yes, we do.

是的，我們願意。

I noticed the backlog was down sequentially in Critical Power, and there may be some lumpiness there. Can you grow the backlog into 2025, do you think in a pretty significant manner?

我注意到臨界功率中的積壓量連續下降，並且那裡可能存在一些波動。您認為可以將積壓訂單增加到 2025 年嗎？

That's our goal every single day. Based on what we're seeing and where we are on various proposals and negotiations, we're pretty confident for the next 2 years.

這是我們每一天的目標。根據我們所看到的情況以及我們在各種提案和談判上的進展，我們對未來兩年充滿信心。

I know you had a filing last week regarding some large bonuses that were paid. I wonder if you could just comment on that.

我知道您上週提交了一份有關支付的大額獎金的文件。我想知道你是否可以對此發表評論。

Yes, the largest bonus was to me. That was $2 million, the rest was much less. We had a $50 million sale. I was the investment banker on it. There was no investment banker, so there were no fees there.

是的，最大的獎金是給我的。那是200萬美元，剩下的就少很多了。我們的銷售額為 5000 萬美元。我是這件事的投資銀行家。那裡沒有投資銀行家，因此不收取任何費用。

Legal fees were very, very low in this case because we had prior experience with Mill Point from 5 years ago, and that shortened that as well. The Board decided that they felt that we had gotten a very, very high price for the business or a very fair price and rewarded me as such.

本案的法律費用非常非常低，因為我們 5 年前就曾與 Mill Point 打過交道，這也縮短了時間。董事會決定，他們認為我們獲得了非常非常高的業務價格或非常公平的價格，並因此獎勵了我。

If there are no further questions, I'd like to turn the floor back to management for any closing comments.

如果沒有其他問題，我想請管理層發表最後評論。

Sure, thank you all for your time and support, and we look forward to updating you again on our next call.

當然，感謝大家的時間和支持，我們期待在下次電話會議上再次向您通報最新情況。

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you again for your participation.

今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。再次感謝您的參與。