PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust (PMT) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust's first quarter 2026 earnings call. Additional earnings materials, including the presentation slides that will be referred to in the call as well as an excel file with supplemental information are available on PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust's website at pmt.pennymac.com.

各位下午好，歡迎參加PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust 2026年第一季財報電話會議。其他財報資料（包括本次會議將引用的簡報投影片，以及含補充資訊的Excel檔）可於PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust網站 pmt.pennymac.com 取得。

Before we begin, let me remind you that this call may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to certain risks identified on slide 2 of the earnings presentation that could cause the company's actual results to differ materially as well as non-GAAP measures that have been reconciled to their GAAP equivalent in the earnings materials.

在開始之前，提醒各位，本次電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述，相關風險已於財報簡報第2頁揭露，可能導致公司實際結果與前述陳述存在重大差異；此外亦可能包含非GAAP衡量指標，並已於財報資料中與其GAAP對應項目完成調節。

Now I'd like to introduce David Spector, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Daniel Perotti, PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust's Chief Financial Officer.

現在我想介紹David Spector，PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust董事長兼執行長；以及Daniel Perotti，PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust財務長。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and thank you to everyone for participating in our first quarter 2026 earnings call. Starting on slide 3. PMT's first quarter net income was $14 million or $0.16 per diluted common share, representing a 4% annualized return on common equity. These results were impacted by a lower contribution from our interest rate sensitive strategies primarily due to a decrease in servicing fees as a result of seasonality and a larger-than-expected MSR runoff related to higher note rate loans.

謝謝，接線員。各位下午好，感謝各位參與我們2026年第一季財報電話會議。請看第3頁。PMT第一季淨利為1,400萬美元，或稀釋後每股普通股0.16美元，折合普通股權益年化報酬率為4%。本季結果受到利率敏感型策略貢獻下降的影響，主要原因為季節性因素導致服務費下降，以及與較高票面利率貸款相關、超出預期的MSR攤銷/流失（runoff）。

These impacts were partially offset by improved results in our aggregation securitization segment. PMT paid a quarterly dividend of $0.40 per share and book value per share on March 31 was $14.98, down 2% from the end of the prior quarter.

上述影響部分被我們聚合與證券化（aggregation securitization）部門表現改善所抵銷。PMT本季每股發放0.40美元的季度股利；截至3月31日每股帳面價值為14.98美元，較前一季季末下降2%。

Turning to slide 5. I would like to note we have renamed what was previously the Correspondent Production segment to the aggregation and securitization segment. We believe this name more accurately captures the breadth of PMT's participation in the mortgage ecosystem, specifically our focus on aggregating high-quality loans for execution in the secondary market to drive organic asset creation.

請看第5頁。我想指出，我們已將先前的「通路生產（Correspondent Production）」部門更名為「聚合與證券化」部門。我們認為此名稱更能準確反映PMT在房貸生態系中的參與廣度，特別是我們專注於聚合高品質貸款並在次級市場執行，以推動有機資產創造。

In total, during the first quarter, PMT purchased $4.3 billion in UPB of loans from PFSI. $2.8 billion in UPB was through its correspondent purchase agreement with PFSI, for which PMT pays fulfillment fees. The remaining $1.5 billion represented loan sales from PFSI to PMT outside of their loan purchase agreement where PMT's private label securitization platform provided optimal secondary market execution for PFSI.

整體而言，第一季PMT自PFSI購入未償本金（UPB）合計43億美元的貸款。其中28億美元UPB係透過與PFSI的通路收購協議（correspondent purchase agreement）取得，PMT就此支付履約/作業費（fulfillment fees）。其餘15億美元則為PFSI在貸款收購協議之外出售予PMT的貸款，PMT的私募標籤（private label）證券化平台為PFSI提供了最佳的次級市場執行。

Slide 6 highlights the continued success of our organic investment creation engine. Similar to last quarter, we completed eight private label securitization totaling [$2.8] billion in UPB. This activity resulted in the retention of $190 million of new subordinate bond investments in the credit-sensitive strategies and $12 million of new senior bond investments in the interest rate-sensitive strategies. We also generated $40 million of new MSR investments.

第6頁突顯我們有機投資創造引擎的持續成功。與上季類似，我們完成了8筆私募標籤證券化，合計UPB為[28]億美元。此活動使我們在信用敏感型策略中保留了1.90億美元的新次順位債券投資，並在利率敏感型策略中保留了1,200萬美元的新高順位債券投資。我們也新增了4,000萬美元的MSR投資。

Our momentum has continued after quarter end, with two additional securitizations completed and another one priced totaling $1.1 billion in UPB, and we remain on pace to complete approximately 30 securitizations in 2026, which we expect will build a substantial foundation of investments with returns on equity in the low to mid-teens to support future earnings.

我們在季後仍延續動能，另完成兩筆證券化並完成另一筆定價，合計UPB為11億美元；我們仍按計畫在2026年完成約30筆證券化，預期將建立具相當規模的投資基礎，股東權益報酬率可望落在低至中十位數（low to mid-teens），以支撐未來獲利。

On slide 7, we provided a snapshot of the high-quality investments we are creating through our private label securitization program. At quarter end, the fair value of subordinate bonds within our credit-sensitive strategies totaled $744 million. 66% of this portfolio is comprised of bonds from nonowner-occupied loan securitizations. 20% is comprised of bonds from general loan securitization with the remainder primarily from agency eligible owner-occupied loan securitizations.

在第7頁，我們提供透過私募標籤證券化計畫所創造之高品質投資的概覽。截至季末，我們信用敏感型策略中的次順位債券公允價值合計為7.44億美元。該投資組合中，66%由非自住（nonowner-occupied）貸款證券化之債券構成；20%由一般貸款證券化之債券構成；其餘主要來自符合機構（agency）資格的自住（owner-occupied）貸款證券化。

As you can see, these investments feature exceptional credit characteristics. including a weighted average FICO origination of 774 of weighted average LTV and origination of 72 and negligible delinquencies. Within our interest rate-sensitive strategies, as of quarter end, we held $94 million in fair value of senior mezzanine bonds. These investments are diversified across our jumbo non-owner occupied and agency eligible owner-occupied loan securitizations.

如各位所見，這些投資具備卓越的信用特徵，包括加權平均起貸FICO分數為774、加權平均起貸LTV為72，且逾期率可忽略不計。在利率敏感型策略方面，截至季末，我們持有高順位夾層（senior mezzanine）債券公允價值9,400萬美元。這些投資分散於我們的大額（jumbo）非自住與符合機構資格的自住貸款證券化。

And similar to our credit-sensitive bonds, these investments are backed by high-quality collateral with weighted average original FICO scores in the 770 range and original loan-to-value ratios in the low 70s.

且與我們的信用敏感型債券類似，這些投資亦由高品質擔保品支持，加權平均原始FICO分數約在770區間，原始貸款價值比（LTV）約在70出頭。

This consistent credit quality across these organically created assets underscores our ability to produce attractive, high-yielding investments on slide 8, approximately 60% of PMT's shareholders' equity remains deployed to long-standing investments in MSRs and our unique GSE credit risk transfer investments.

這些有機創造資產在信用品質上的一致性，凸顯我們具備產出具吸引力之高收益投資的能力。請看第8頁，PMT約60%的股東權益仍配置於長期持有的MSR投資，以及我們獨特的GSE信用風險移轉（CRT）投資。

Mortgage servicing rights account for nearly half of shareholders' equity, providing stable cash flows from the portfolio with a low weighted average coupon of 3.9%. Our organically created GSE CRT investments represent 12% of shareholders' equity and consists of seasoned loans with a weighted average current LTV of 46%.

房貸服務權（MSR）約占股東權益近一半，該投資組合加權平均票息僅3.9%，可提供穩定現金流。我們有機創造的GSE CRT投資占股東權益12%，其標的為已具一定存續期的貸款，加權平均目前LTV為46%。

Turning to slide 9, while our diversified portfolio is constructed of investments with strong underlying fundamentals, we acknowledge our earnings, excluding market-driven value changes have been below our dividend level for the past several quarters. As you can see, we are showing an average run rate return of $0.31 per quarter for the next year. And focusing on the interest rate-sensitive strategies, increased amortization on higher coupon loans as well as reduced expectations for declines in short-term interest rates, which drive financing costs have lowered expected returns on MSRs in the near term.

請看第9頁。雖然我們的多元化投資組合由基本面強勁的投資所構成，但我們也承認，排除市場驅動的價值變動後，我們的盈餘在過去數季低於股利水準。如各位所見，我們顯示未來一年平均每季的常態化報酬（run rate return）為0.31美元。聚焦利率敏感型策略方面，較高票息貸款的攤銷增加，以及對短期利率下行（其影響融資成本）的預期降低，使得短期內MSR的預期報酬下滑。

As is our long-standing practice, we continue to actively evaluate our overall equity allocation and investment opportunities to refine and optimize our returns on a go-forward basis. We are working diligently to reposition PMT to capture the opportunities more aligned to our long-term return hurdles. Our momentum in organic investment creation remains strong and we have successfully positioned PMT as a leader in the private label securitization market.

依我們一貫的長期作法，我們將持續積極評估整體股權配置與投資機會，以在未來進一步精進並最佳化報酬。我們正努力調整PMT的投資定位，以掌握更符合我們長期報酬門檻的機會。我們在有機投資創造方面的動能仍然強勁，並已成功將PMT定位為私募標籤證券化市場的領導者。

By leveraging our unique ability to create credit-sensitive, high-quality assets, and drive our overall returns higher through disciplined capital allocation, I remain confident in our strategy to support our dividend and create long-term value for our shareholders.

透過運用我們獨特的能力來創造信用敏感且高品質的資產，並藉由嚴謹的資本配置提升整體報酬，我對我們支持股利並為股東創造長期價值的策略仍充滿信心。

Now I'll turn it over to Dan to review the first quarter financial performance.

接下來我把時間交給Dan，請他回顧第一季的財務表現。

Thank you, David. Net income to common shareholders was $14 million or $0.16 per diluted common share in the first quarter, or a 4% annualized return on equity to common shareholders. Our credit-sensitive strategies contributed $16 million to pretax income, generating an annualized return on equity of 17%. Gains from organically created CRT investments were $10 million, which included $7 million of realized gains in carry and $3 million of market-driven value gains from credit spread tightening.

謝謝你，David。第一季歸屬普通股股東淨利為1,400萬美元，或稀釋後每股普通股0.16美元，折合普通股股東權益年化報酬率為4%。我們的信用敏感型策略對稅前盈餘貢獻1,600萬美元，產生17%的年化股東權益報酬率。有機創造的CRT投資帶來1,000萬美元收益，其中包含7,00萬美元的已實現持有收益（carry）與300萬美元因信用利差收斂所帶來的市場驅動價值增益。

Investments in subordinate MBS from our private label securitizations generated gains of $6 million, $2 million of which were market-driven volumes. Interest rate-sensitive strategies contributed pretax income of $8 million for an annualized ROE of 3%. Income excluding market-driven value changes for the segment was $11 million, down from $21 million in the prior quarter, impacted by increased prepayment speeds during the quarter, particularly on higher note rate MSRs, which drove higher runoff of our MSR assets, as well as lower servicing fees from seasonality and lower placement fees on custodial balances as a result of lower short-term interest rates.

我們私募標籤證券化所持有的次順位MBS投資產生600萬美元收益，其中200萬美元為市場驅動的價值變動。利率敏感型策略貢獻稅前盈餘800萬美元，年化ROE為3%。該部門排除市場驅動價值變動後的收入為1,100萬美元，較前一季的2,100萬美元下降，主要受本季提前還款速度加快影響，尤其是較高票面利率MSR，導致MSR資產流失（runoff）增加；此外亦受季節性因素導致服務費下降，以及短期利率較低使託管餘額的配置費（placement fees）下降所影響。

Regarding market-driven value changes, our hedging activities during the quarter yielded a small net decline as the $40 million MSR fair value increase was more than offset by $46 million of net declines in fair value of MBS and interest rate hedges, including the related tax expense. Additionally, during the quarter, we sold $477 million of agency fixed rate MBS to capitalize on intra-quarter spread tightening, resulting from the GSE MBS purchase announcement. and we redeployed the capital into retained investments from our private label securitizations.

關於市場驅動的價值變動，我們本季的避險活動帶來小幅淨下降，因為4,000萬美元的MSR公允價值上升，被MBS與利率避險工具公允價值合計4,600萬美元的淨下降（包含相關稅費）所抵銷。此外，本季我們出售了4.77億美元的機構固定利率MBS，以把握因GSE宣布購買MBS而導致的季內利差收斂，並將資本重新部署至我們私標證券化所保留的投資。

The aggregation and securitization segment reported pretax income of $16 million compared to a pretax loss of $1 million in the prior quarter. The prior quarter amount was primarily driven by spread widening on jumbo loans during the aggregation period and lower overall margins. In total, PMT reported $28 million of net income across strategies, excluding market-driven value changes, up from $21 million in the prior quarter, primarily due to an increased contribution from the aggregation and securitization segment. I want to address our dividend in the context of our current results and the updated run rate return potential.

匯集與證券化部門本季稅前盈餘為1,600萬美元，較前一季稅前虧損100萬美元改善。前一季的結果主要受匯集期間巨額（jumbo）貸款利差擴大及整體利潤率較低所影響。整體而言，PMT在排除市場驅動的價值變動後，各策略合計淨利為2,800萬美元，高於前一季的2,100萬美元，主要因匯集與證券化部門貢獻增加。我想在目前的業績表現與更新後的常態化報酬潛力背景下，談談我們的股利。

While projections for income, excluding market-driven value changes remain below the dividend level, it is important to note that we expect to maintain the common share dividend of $0.40 per share, which is supported by our taxable income and which we expect to be sufficient to fully cover the dividend at its current level.

雖然排除市場驅動價值變動後的收益預估仍低於股利水準，但重要的是，我們預期將維持普通股每股0.40美元的股利；該股利由我們的應稅所得所支持，而我們預期應稅所得足以在目前水準下完全覆蓋股利。

Turning to slide 13. We highlight the flexible and sophisticated financing structures PMT has in place to support its diversified portfolio of investments. During the quarter, we redeemed $345 million of exchangeable senior notes originally due in March 2026 using capacity from existing financing lines.

接著看第13頁投影片。我們重點說明PMT已建立具彈性且成熟的融資架構，以支持其多元化投資組合。本季我們運用既有融資額度，提前贖回原定於2026年3月到期的3.45億美元可交換高級票據。

And finally, on slide 14, we continue to believe that debt to equity, excluding nonrecourse debt is the best metric for measuring our core leverage and that ratio declined to 5.6 times at quarter end from 6 times at the prior quarter end. within our expected range.

最後，在第14頁投影片，我們仍認為，排除無追索權負債後的負債對股東權益比率，是衡量我們核心槓桿的最佳指標；該比率於季末由前一季季末的6倍下降至5.6倍，落在我們預期範圍內。

PMT's total debt to equity increased to approximately 11:1 from 10:1 at December 31 as we continue to retain investments from securitizations. The increase in our total debt-to-equity ratio reflects growth in nonrecourse debt associated with these transactions, where all securitized loans are required to be consolidated on our balance sheet for accounting purposes.

由於我們持續保留證券化交易中的投資，PMT的總負債對股東權益比率由12月31日的10:1上升至約11:1。我們總負債對股東權益比率的上升，反映了與這些交易相關的無追索權負債增加；依會計規定，所有已證券化貸款都必須合併列入我們的資產負債表。

As a reminder, the source of repayment for this debt is limited to the cash flows from the associated loans in each private label securitization mitigating any additional exposure to PMT. We expect the divergence between these two metrics to continue increasing as our securitization program grows.

提醒一下，這些負債的償付來源僅限於各私標證券化中相關貸款的現金流，從而降低PMT的額外曝險。隨著我們的證券化計畫擴大，我們預期這兩項指標之間的差距將持續擴大。

We'll now open it up for questions. Operator?

我們現在開放提問。接線員？

(Operator Instructions)

（接線員指示）

Trevor Cranston, Citizens JMP.

Trevor Cranston，Citizens JMP。

Hey, thanks. Question related to your comments on slide 9 about actively evaluating the asset allocation of the company and some new investment opportunities. Can you elaborate on what you guys are looking at in terms of kind of new investments if that includes things like non-QM or home equity. And also was curious if sales of maybe some lower returning assets are part of the valuation that's on your end? Thanks.

嗨，謝謝。問題與你們在第9頁投影片提到正在積極評估公司的資產配置以及一些新的投資機會有關。你們能否更詳細說明正在看的新投資方向，是否包含像非QM或房屋淨值（home equity）之類？另外也想請教，你們是否也在評估出售一些報酬較低的資產作為配置調整的一部分？謝謝。

Well, I think it's all the above would be my response. I think first of all -- if you look at slide 9, when you look at the annualized return on equity, you can see that the -- in terms of achieving that minimum will far return of, call it, 13%, 14%. The sector that's really under delivering and has been -- has been the net interest rate sensitive strategies and, in particular, CMSs.

我想我的回答是以上皆是。首先——如果你看第9頁投影片，從年化股東權益報酬率來看，為了達到我們所說的最低門檻報酬，大約13%、14%，真正未達標、而且一直以來表現偏弱的，是淨利率敏感型策略，尤其是CMS。

And so as we look across our MSR portfolio, I mean, clearly, there's parts of that -- that have real value and there's demand in the marketplace for it. And there's others that has real value that perhaps there isn't as much demand in the marketplace.

因此，當我們檢視整體MSR投資組合時，很明顯其中有些部分——確實具有價值，而且市場上對其有需求；也有一些部分同樣有價值，但市場需求可能沒有那麼強。

So we're strategically evaluating the MSR portfolio to help accelerate perhaps the weighted average equity allocation down in that operating strategy and moving more to the credit-sensitive strategies. The point you raised in the credit-sensitive strategies, of course, there's more opportunity to do additional securitizations in nonowner-occupied loans and agency-eligible loans even jumbo loans.

所以我們正策略性地評估MSR投資組合，可能藉此加速降低該營運策略中的加權平均權益配置，並將更多配置轉向信用敏感型策略。你提到的信用敏感型策略方面，當然有更多機會在非自住貸款、符合機構（agency-eligible）貸款，甚至巨額（jumbo）貸款上進行更多證券化。

But given what we're seeing in the non-QM originations, both in correspondent and over a PFSI in their broker division, the ability to aggregate for securitization is very apparent to me. So I wouldn't be surprised to see us do a non-QM securitization over the next year.

但就我們在非QM承作量上看到的情況——無論是通路（correspondent）端，或PFSI在其經紀部門——我認為匯集以進行證券化的能力非常明顯。因此，我不會意外我們在未來一年內進行一筆非QM證券化。

And to your point, there's other assets that we see in the marketplace that you can create investments that achieve our return target. And so as we've done in the past, we're going in and we're evaluating how to -- where can we recycle out of lower returning assets in the higher returning assets.

而且如你所說，市場上還有其他資產，我們看到可以打造出符合我們報酬目標的投資。因此，就像我們過去所做的，我們會進一步評估——如何把資本從報酬較低的資產回收，轉投到報酬較高的資產。

Okay. That's helpful. Thank you.

好的，這很有幫助。謝謝。

Bose George, KBW.

Bose George，KBW。

Good afternoon. So first, just the change in the ROE expectation that you gave for the $31 million down from $40 million, it looks like it's mainly on the Agency MBS, but can you just walk through the drivers of that change.

下午好。首先，關於你們把3,100萬美元的ROE預期從4,000萬美元下修，看起來主要是在機構MBS上，但你能否說明一下造成這個變動的驅動因素？

So the -- so really, the bigger driver of those is on the MSRs, which -- where the return came down a few percentage points in the allocation, weighted average equity allocated there, is a larger proportion. The Agency MBS also did decline. That was really related to -- if you look at the expectations for short-term rates going back from last quarter versus this quarter, there was obviously a sharper decline and thus a greater expected carry from the agency MBS in that -- in the prior run rate scenario.

所以——其實更大的驅動因素在MSR上；MSR的報酬率在配置中下滑了幾個百分點，而分配到那裡的加權平均權益占比更高。機構MBS也確實下滑。那主要與——如果你比較上一季與本季對短期利率的預期，顯然本季預期下調更明顯，因此在先前的常態化情境下，機構MBS的預期carry會更高。

But the bigger impact is related to really the prepayment speeds and expectations that we see in the short to medium term on the MSRs.

但更大的影響其實與MSR在短到中期的提前還款速度與我們看到的預期有關。

Okay. That makes sense. And -- the -- and in terms of the bridge now from the $0.16 you guys did this quarter up to the normalized. Can you sort of walk through just the bridge there?

好的，了解。那——至於你們本季做到的0.16美元到常態化水準之間的銜接（bridge），你能否帶我們走一遍這個bridge？

Well, certainly, obviously, rates have increased a bit, and so we are expecting slower prepayments on the MSRs. But still below -- still elevated from what we saw earlier in prior quarters or in earlier quarters in 2025. And then as David has mentioned -- there is we mentioned some allocation out of MSRs and into -- if you look at the allocation here, for example, some ability to ramp up other investments as we move through the next few quarters.

當然。很明顯利率有所上升，因此我們預期MSR的提前還款會放緩。但仍低於——仍然偏高，相較於我們在2025年較早的前幾季所看到的水準。然後如David提到的——我們也提到會把部分配置從MSR移出並轉入——如果你看這裡的配置，例如，隨著未來幾季推進，我們有能力逐步加碼其他投資。

Okay, great. Thank you.

好的，很好。謝謝。

Jason Weaver, Jones Trading.

Jason Weaver，Jones Trading。

Hey, good afternoon, guys. Hope you're doing well. In your prepared remarks, you mentioned the sale of roughly $0.5 billion of MBS on tightening to redeploy towards retained securitization, which looks like a material rotation, the interest rate-sensitive book. All else equal, is this a sort of glide path we should think about for the remainder of 2026? Or was this more of a tactical rotation?

嗨，下午好，各位。希望你們都好。你們在事先準備的發言中提到，在利差收斂時出售了大約5億美元的MBS，並重新部署到保留的證券化投資；看起來這是利率敏感型投資組合的一次重大輪動。在其他條件不變下，這是否是我們在2026年剩餘時間應該預期的一種逐步路徑（glide path）？還是這更偏向一次戰術性輪動？

I think that was really more opportunistic or tactical. We wouldn't necessarily expect to continue to wind down that portfolio, especially, although we will adjust as we're looking at rotating out of certain portions of the portfolio.

我認為那其實比較偏向機會性或戰術性的操作。我們不一定預期會持續縮減那個投資組合，尤其是；不過，當我們考量從投資組合的某些部分輪動退出時，我們會進行調整。

But given the returns that we expect from the Agency MBS portfolio and what we -- what we have here overall, we wouldn't expect to drawdown necessarily further on the MBS portfolio, but it's something that we'll continuously evaluate based on where spreads are in the market.

但考量到我們對機構MBS投資組合的預期報酬，以及我們整體目前的配置，我們不預期會再進一步必然地縮減MBS投資組合；不過，這是我們會持續評估的事項，取決於市場利差所處的位置。

Got it. Thanks for that. And I think you redeemed about $350 million of exchangeable senior notes from the existing financing book. What is the unsecured corporate debt stack look for the next 24 months, if you can just guess. And are you targeting any sort of opportunistic refinancing or extension given current spreads?

了解，謝謝。還有，我想你們從既有融資組合中贖回了約3.5億美元的可交換高級票據。未來24個月的無擔保公司債務結構大概會是什麼樣子（如果你能大致推估一下）？另外，考量目前利差水準，你們是否鎖定任何機會性的再融資或延長到期？

So we issued about $150 million of additional convertible debt towards the end of Q4 last year. We additionally in 2025 issued a few unsecured baby bonds. That was effectively a free refinancing of the convertible debt that was retired in Q1 of this year. So we don't have a need to necessarily raise additional unsecured debt. It is something that we will continue to look at and see if there are opportunities.

我們在去年第四季末額外發行了約1.5億美元的可轉換債。此外，我們在2025年發行了幾筆無擔保的小額債券（baby bonds）。這基本上等同於對今年第一季已退役的可轉換債進行「零成本」再融資。因此，我們不一定需要再額外舉借無擔保債務。不過，這仍是我們會持續關注、看看是否有機會的事項。

but no immediate plans necessarily, but it's something that we will be opportunistic with to the extent that we see opportunities.

目前沒有立即的計畫，但只要我們看到機會，我們會以機會性的方式來操作。

That's good color. I appreciate it, guys.

這些說明很有幫助。謝謝各位。

(Operator Instructions)

（接線員指示）

Doug Harter, BTIG.

BTIG 的 Doug Harter。

Thanks. As you think about the opportunity in the non-agency securitization, do you view it as more opportunity limited today or more capital constrained and as you think about the ability to scale -- continue to scale that business?

謝謝。當你們思考非機構證券化的機會時，你們認為目前是機會本身較受限，還是資本較受限？以及在思考擴大——持續擴大該業務的能力時，你們怎麼看？

I think it's really capital more than opportunity. I think the great story about PMT is obviously, the synergistic relationship it has with PFSI and the ability to source the underlying assets, the ability to underwrite and process the loans on the front end and where we have the ability to actively select the loans that we want in our investments is a really important feature that we have in PMT.

我認為主要是資本，而不是機會。我覺得PMT很棒的一點，顯然在於它與PFSI之間的協同關係：能夠取得底層資產來源、能在前端承作與處理貸款，以及我們能主動挑選我們希望納入投資的貸款——這是PMT非常重要的特色。

And so the -- whether it's investor or non-owner securitizations where we create subordinate bonds or general loan securitizations and even the agency eligible loans where we're not securitizing just for best execution purposes, we're securitizing to create investments for PMT.

因此，無論是投資人或非自住的證券化，我們會創造次順位債券；或是一般貸款證券化；甚至是符合機構資格的貸款——在這些情況下，我們進行證券化不只是為了最佳執行（best execution），而是為了替PMT創造投資標的。

And so I think that it's really -- a really more of a capital issue for us. And I think that's why we're focused on opportunistically getting out of lower returning assets and most likely reinvesting the capital into our credit-sensitive strategies sector, which, by the way, from the very beginning of PMT is what the -- is what the investment thesis was for PMT looks to be a credit-sensitive strategy vehicle.

所以我認為對我們而言，這確實更像是一個資本面的問題。也正因如此，我們才會專注於機會性地退出報酬較低的資產，並很可能把資本再投入到我們對信用較敏感的策略領域。順帶一提，從PMT一開始，這就是——這就是PMT的投資論點：PMT看起來就是一個以信用敏感策略為主的投資載體。

And so that's really the regarding the kind of the guiding force here. We're -- I think we've done a great job in being the preeminent securitizer of these non-agency loans and creating the investments behind them. And you look at the performance of these, and they're really remarkable.

因此，這就是這裡的指導力量。我們——我認為我們在成為這些非機構貸款的領先證券化機構、並在其背後創造投資方面做得非常好。你看看這些投資的表現，確實非常亮眼。

And I think that we've done a nice job when CRT was discontinued to be able to move to figure out, okay, how do we create a like investment without the CRT opportunity, and that's how we ended up where we are today. But I think you're going to continue to see us grow the equity allocation and the credit sensitive strategies over time.

而且我認為，當CRT被停止時，我們也做得不錯，能夠轉而思考：好，那在沒有CRT機會的情況下，我們要如何創造類似的投資？這就是我們走到今天這個位置的原因。但我認為你們會持續看到我們隨著時間推移，增加股權配置以及信用敏感策略的比重。

Thanks. And David, as you mentioned, you're seeing increased non-QM volume, how much crossover is there in your traditional agency originator that that's a correspondent partner versus non-QM or some of these other products that you haven't necessarily gotten as large in yet?

謝謝。David，如你提到你們看到非QM量增加，在你們傳統的機構型放款人（agency originator）客群中——也就是作為你們的通路合作夥伴（correspondent partner）的那些——有多少會跨足到非QM或其他一些你們目前規模還沒那麼大的產品？

I'm really -- I've been really pleasantly surprised -- and I think it's a function of the size of the market that we're seeing a good amount of our correspondence getting into non-QM lending. And so I think that they are -- they're recognizing that they need to expand their product -- expand their product base. And so this is where being the leading correspondent aggregator with over 700 plus correspondence is really an advantage to us and being really good, meaningful deliveries of noncurrent correspondent.

我真的——我一直都很驚喜——我想這也反映了市場規模：我們看到相當一部分的通路（correspondent）正在進入非QM放貸。因此我認為他們——他們也意識到需要擴大產品——擴大產品線。這也是為什麼作為領先的通路整合商（correspondent aggregator），擁有超過700家以上的通路合作夥伴，對我們是很大的優勢；而且我們也在非QM通路端看到相當有意義的交付量。

And I expect that to meaningfully grow. I think the important part of Non-QM, like all non-Agency products, you have to keep an eye on the fact that you don't want to get caught in a market disruption or with spreads widening.

我預期這會顯著成長。我認為非QM的重要之處在於，和所有非機構產品一樣，你必須留意：不要在市場出現擾動或利差擴大時被套住。

And so we're being really diligent at least initially in selling and forward selling the non-QM product to really lock in the margin until such time as we want and we decide to do a securitization. And that's where again, the synergistic relationship with PFSI to be really valuable because similar to the correspondent side on the PFSI side, we're seeing really good receptivity to non-QM with our broker partners.

因此，至少在初期，我們非常謹慎地透過出售與遠期出售非QM產品，來真正鎖定利潤率，直到我們想要、並且決定要做證券化為止。而這也再次凸顯與PFSI的協同關係非常有價值，因為類似於PFSI端的通路業務，我們也看到我們的經紀商合作夥伴對非QM有很好的接受度。

And so I think when we decide that we want to do a securitization and really deploy capital there, we'll be able to do so. But by and large, I think there's part of the non-QM market that we're participating in is getting more readily accepted in the broker and correspondent communities has more akin to their credit profile and their risk management framework than when it was originally -- when a vision was born some 10 years ago and people thought of it as maybe a little less than prime. But I've been pleasantly surprised by this.

因此，我認為當我們決定要做證券化並在那裡真正部署資本時，我們會有能力做到。但整體而言，我認為我們所參與的那部分非QM市場，在經紀商與通路社群中正變得更容易被接受；相較於大約10年前這個概念剛誕生時，人們可能把它視為略低於優質（prime）的產品，如今它更貼近他們的信用輪廓與風險管理框架。我對此感到相當驚喜。

Great. Thank you, David.

很好。謝謝你，David。

Thanks, Todd.

謝謝，Todd。

We have no further questions at this time. I'll now turn it back to David Spector for closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。我現在把時間交回給David Spector做結語。

Well, I'd like to thank everyone for joining us on our call today. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to reach out to me or our IR team, and I look forward to to speaking to all of you in the near future. Thank you.

我想感謝各位今天參與我們的電話會議。如果你們有任何問題，請隨時與我或我們的投資人關係（IR）團隊聯繫；我也期待在不久的將來與各位再度交流。謝謝。

This concludes today's call. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。各位現在可以掛線。