Piper Sandler Companies (PIPR) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Piper Sandler Company's Second Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded and will include remarks by Piper Sandler management, followed by a question-and-answer session.

早安，歡迎參加 Piper Sandler 公司 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。今天的電話會議正在錄音，其中包括 Piper Sandler 管理層的講話，隨後將進行問答環節。

I will begin by turning the call over to Kate Winslow. Please go ahead.

我先將電話轉給凱特溫斯洛。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good morning, and thank you for joining the Piper Sandler Company's Second Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. Hosting the call today are Chairman and CEO, Chad Abraham; our President, Deb Schoneman; and CFO, Kate Clune.

謝謝你，接線生。早安，感謝您參加 Piper Sandler 公司 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。今天主持電話會議的是董事長兼執行長 Chad Abraham；我們的總統 Deb Schoneman；和財務長凱特·克魯恩。

Earlier this morning, we issued a press release announcing Piper Sandler's Second Quarter 2024 financial results, which is available on our website at pipersandler.com/earnings. Today's discussion of the results is complementary to the press release. A replay of this call will also be available at that same website later today.

今天早些時候，我們發布了新聞稿，宣布 Piper Sandler 2024 年第二季度財務業績，該業績可在我們的網站 Pipersandler.com/earnings 上查看。今天對結果的討論是新聞稿的補充。今天晚些時候，該電話會議的重播也將在同一網站上提供。

Before we begin, let me remind you that remarks made on today's call may contain forward-looking statements that are not historical or current facts, including statements about beliefs and expectations, and involve inherent risks and uncertainties. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those anticipated are identified in the company's reports on file with the SEC which are available on our website at pipersandler.com and on the SEC website at sec.gov.

在開始之前，請允許我提醒您，今天的電話會議中發表的言論可能包含非歷史或當前事實的前瞻性陳述，包括有關信念和期望的陳述，並涉及固有的風險和不確定性。本公司向 SEC 提交的報告中列出了可能導致實際結果與預期結果有重大差異的因素，這些報告可在我們的網站 Pipersandler.com 和 SEC 網站 sec.gov 上查閱。

Today's discussion also includes statements regarding certain non-GAAP financial measures that management believes are meaningful when evaluating the company's performance. The non-GAAP measures should be considered in addition to and not a substitute for measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with GAAP. A reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measure is provided in our earnings release issued today.

今天的討論還包括有關管理層認為在評估公司業績時有意義的某些非公認會計準則財務指標的聲明。非公認會計準則衡量指標應作為根據公認會計準則制定的財務績效衡量指標的補充，而不是替代。我們今天發布的收益報告中提供了這些非公認會計原則財務指標與最直接可比較的公認會計原則指標的調節表。

I will now turn the call over to Chad.

我現在將把電話轉給乍得。

Good morning, everyone. It's great to be with you to talk about our second quarter 2024 results. We delivered strong year-over-year growth generating adjusted net revenues of $357 million, a 17.3% operating margin and adjusted EPS of $2.52. Our diversified platform continues to deliver solid profitability and as market conditions continue improving, we are well positioned for a strong second half of the year.

大家早安。很高興與您一起討論我們 2024 年第二季的業績。我們實現了強勁的年成長，調整後淨收入達 3.57 億美元，營業利潤率為 17.3%，調整後每股收益為 2.52 美元。我們的多元化平台持續提供穩健的獲利能力，並且隨著市場狀況的持續改善，我們已為今年下半年的強勁表現做好了準備。

Corporate investment banking generated $235 million of revenues during the second quarter, an increase of 41% over the same period last year. For the first half of 2024, corporate investment banking revenues were up 33% from last year, with M&A and restructuring activity generating 65% of total corporate investment banking revenues. Equity financings contributing 22% and debt advisory and financings, generating 13% of revenues.

企業投資銀行業務第二季營收2.35億美元，比去年同期成長41%。2024年上半年，企業投資銀行營收較去年成長33%，其中併購和重組活動佔企業投資銀行總營收的65%。股權融資佔收入的 22%，債務諮詢和融資佔收入的 13%。

Results were driven by higher revenues from advisory transactions, the reopening of equity and debt capital markets and strong relative performance. In addition, revenues generated from private equity clients were up significantly during the first half of 2024.

業績的推動因素包括諮詢交易收入的增加、股權和債務資本市場的重新開放以及強勁的相對業績。此外，2024 年上半年來自私募股權客戶的收入大幅成長。

During the year, we have deepened our sector coverage, expanded our product capabilities and grown our geographic coverage while closely managing headcount and productivity. In early June, we announced the pending acquisition of Aviditi Advisors, a full life cycle adviser to private equity GPs and LPs.

這一年裡，我們深化了產業覆蓋範圍，擴大了產品能力，擴大了地理覆蓋範圍，同時密切管理員工數量和生產力。6 月初，我們宣布即將收購 Aviditi Advisors，這是一家為私募股權 GP 和 LP 提供全生命週期顧問的公司。

Aviditi was co-founded by Ryan Schlitt and John Robertshaw. After previously holding senior positions in private capital advisory groups and asset management at Credit Suisse and DLJ, Ryan and John and their team will bring a wealth of experience and relationships to Piper Sandler.

Aviditi 由 Ryan Schlitt 和 John Robertshaw 共同創立。Ryan 和 John 及其團隊先前曾在瑞士信貸 (Credit Suisse) 和 DLJ 的私人資本諮詢團隊和資產管理部門擔任高階職位，之後將為 Piper Sandler 帶來豐富的經驗和關係。

The Aviditi team consists of approximately 45 professionals, including 11 Managing Directors and will form Piper Sandler's Private Capital Advisory Group. The team provides fundraising services, secondary solutions to GPs and LPs, including continuation vehicles, and comprehensive capital market solutions for GPs across the life cycle of their portfolio companies.

Aviditi 團隊由大約 45 名專業人士組成，其中包括 11 名董事總經理，並將組成 Piper Sandler 的私人資本諮詢小組。該團隊為普通合夥人和有限合夥人提供籌款服務、二級解決方案（包括延續工具）以及為普通合夥人在其投資組合公司的整個生命週期提供全面的資本市場解決方案。

The addition of these key capabilities will enhance the value of our platform to our single largest client base, private equity. By leveraging the combined network of financial sponsors with our broad sector coverage, significant opportunities exist to grow revenues over time.

這些關鍵功能的增加將提高我們平台對我們最大的單一客戶群（私募股權）的價值。透過利用金融贊助商的聯合網絡和我們廣泛的行業覆蓋範圍，隨著時間的推移，存在著增加收入的重大機會。

Specific to advisory services, revenues were $184 million during the second quarter of 2024, up significantly year-over-year, driven by higher fees and more completed transactions. We benefited from broad-based contributions across our industry teams, along with increased revenues from PE clients. We completed 67 advisory transactions during the quarter. Performance was led by the financial services team, which closed several significant transactions that were announced prior to this year.

具體到諮詢服務，2024 年第二季的收入為 1.84 億美元，同比大幅增長，這得益於更高的費用和更多完成的交易。我們受益於整個產業團隊的廣泛貢獻，以及私募股權客戶收入的增加。本季我們完成了 67 筆諮詢交易。業績由金融服務團隊領導，該團隊完成了今年之前宣布的幾項重大交易。

In addition, our services and industrials, chemicals, and debt advisory teams all had strong quarters. Our market leadership, broad industry coverage and product capabilities are driving strong relative performance with our first half 2024 advisory revenues, up 26% over the first half of last year compared to middle market activity that was flat.

此外，我們的服務業、工業、化學品和債務諮詢團隊均表現強勁。我們的市場領導地位、廣泛的行業覆蓋範圍和產品能力正在推動強勁的相對業績，我們的 2024 年上半年諮詢收入比去年上半年增長 26%，而中間市場活動持平。

Looking forward, the advisory market is gradually improving as CEO confidence strengthens. We expect our third quarter advisory revenues to be largely consistent with the second quarter with the potential for upside as we build into a strong Q4.

展望未來，隨著執行長信心的增強，諮詢市場逐漸改善。我們預計第三季的諮詢收入將與第二季基本一致，隨著我們第四季的強勁表現，還有上升的潛力。

Turning to corporate financing. Revenues were $51 million during the second quarter, down modestly from the first quarter. We completed 31 equity and debt financings, raising over $5 billion for corporate clients. Performance was led by our healthcare and financial services franchises. The healthcare team served as bookrunner on all nine equity deals priced during the quarter, and the financial services team completed a couple of large equity capital raises in the depository space.

轉向企業融資。第二季營收為 5,100 萬美元，較第一季略有下降。我們完成了 31 筆股權和債務融資，為企業客戶籌集了超過 50 億美元。我們的醫療保健和金融服務特許經營業務表現領先。醫療保健團隊擔任本季定價的所有九筆股權交易的帳簿管理人，金融服務團隊在存管領域完成了幾筆大規模股權融資。

For the first half of 2024, the equity capital markets economic fee pool increased 54% over last year, while our economic fees increased 61%. The strength of our platform continues to drive market share growth. Looking ahead, corporate financing activity has slowed in July, and we expect revenues for the third quarter to be down from the first half 2024 run rate.

2024年上半年，股權資本市場經濟費用池比去年增加了54%，而我們的經濟費用增加了61%。我們平台的實力持續推動市場佔有率的成長。展望未來，7 月企業融資活動放緩，我們預計第三季營收將低於 2024 年上半年的運行速度。

Turning to investment banking managing director headcount. Our approach has not changed, and we continue to target the addition of five to seven MDs annually. We ended the second quarter with 170 managing directors as we remain focused on selectively adding MDs while managing retirements and productivity. We continue to invest in our technology franchise adding two managing directors focused on financial technology.

轉向投資銀行董事總經理人數。我們的方法沒有改變，我們的目標仍然是每年增加五到七位董事總經理。第二季結束時，我們有 170 位董事總經理，因為我們仍然專注於選擇性增加常務董事，同時管理退休和生產力。我們繼續投資於我們的技術特許經營權，增加了兩名專注於金融科技的董事總經理。

In addition, we recently announced the hiring of three managing directors to our services and industrials team who will focus on residential and commercial services. They joined 18 professionals based out of our new Birmingham, Michigan location, the majority of whom started during the second quarter.

此外，我們最近宣佈為我們的服務和工業團隊聘用三名董事總經理，他們將專注於住宅和商業服務。他們加入了密西根州伯明翰新工廠的 18 名專業人士，其中大多數是在第二季開始工作的。

With that, I will turn the call over to Deb to discuss our public finance and brokerage businesses.

接下來，我將把電話轉給黛布，討論我們的公共財政和經紀業務。

Thanks, Chad. I'll begin with an update on our public finance business where market conditions improved during the second quarter. Tight credit spreads, solid investor demand and increased governmental issuance led to better market conditions.

謝謝，查德。我將首先介紹我們公共金融業務的最新情況，第二季市場狀況有所改善。信貸利差收緊、投資者需求強勁以及政府發行量增加導致市場狀況改善。

We generated $25 million of municipal financing revenues during the second quarter of 2024, up 22% on a sequential basis. We underwrote 110 municipal negotiated transactions, raising over $3 billion of par value for our clients.

2024 年第二季度，我們產生了 2,500 萬美元的市政融資收入，較上季成長 22%。我們承保了 110 項市政協商交易，為客戶籌集了超過 30 億美元的票面價值。

Performance during the quarter was driven by governmental issuance in the Midwest and California, as well as solid results from our special district group, which specializes in financing the public infrastructure needs of growing communities. As we look ahead, we believe additional improvements during the second half are achievable as the market continues to improve.

本季度的業績得益於中西部和加州的政府發行，以及我們專門為不斷增長的社區的公共基礎設施需求提供融資的特區集團的堅實業績。展望未來，我們相信，隨著市場持續改善，下半年可以實現進一步的改善。

Turning to our equity brokerage business. Equity markets saw muted volatility during the second quarter as indices ground higher, albeit with limited breadth. We generated revenues of $52 million, up 3% from the second quarter of last year. We traded 2.8 billion shares during the quarter on behalf of over 1,200 unique clients.

轉向我們的股權經紀業務。第二季度，隨著指數走高，股市波動溫和，但幅度有限。我們的營收為 5,200 萬美元，比去年第二季成長 3%。本季我們代表 1,200 多名獨特客戶交易了 28 億股股票。

The breadth of our client base and our daily volume allow us to frequently cross client activity internally, a key differentiator for us in the marketplace. We continue to see client research votes improving as we demonstrate the value of our capabilities. Our expanded scale is winning mind and wallet share with our largest clients, helping to offset the impact from a declining market wallet. With muted volatility, we anticipate near-term results relatively consistent with the second quarter.

我們客戶群的廣度和每日交易量使我們能夠頻繁地在內部進行客戶活動，這是我們在市場上的關鍵差異化因素。隨著我們展示我們能力的價值，我們不斷看到客戶研究投票率不斷提高。我們擴大的規模贏得了最大客戶的關注和錢包份額，有助於抵消市場錢包下降的影響。由於波動性較小，我們預期近期業績與第二季相對一致。

Lastly, turning to fixed income. We generated revenues of $40 million for the second quarter of 2024 down slightly from the first quarter.

最後，轉向固定收益。2024 年第二季我們的營收為 4,000 萬美元，比第一季略有下降。

Client activity remains fairly muted as market participants wait for more certainty on interest rates. The headwinds in fixed income markets have not yet turned to tailwinds. However, we're optimistic that the markets are improving. We expect near-term results similar to this quarter before a stronger finish to the year.

由於市場參與者等待利率的更多確定性，客戶活動仍然相當平靜。固定收益市場的逆風尚未轉變為順風。然而，我們對市場正在改善持樂觀態度。我們預計近期業績將與本季類似，然後今年的業績將更加強勁。

Now I will turn the call over to Kate to review our financial results and provide an update on capital use.

現在我將把電話轉給凱特，以審查我們的財務表現並提供資本使用的最新資訊。

Thanks, Deb. As a reminder, my comments will address our adjusted non-GAAP financial results, which should be considered in addition to and not a substitute for the corresponding GAAP financial measures.

謝謝，黛布。提醒一下，我的評論將涉及我們調整後的非公認會計原則財務業績，應將其視為對相應公認會計原則財務指標的補充，而不是替代。

We generated net revenues of $357 million for the second quarter of 2024, an increase of 7% from the sequential quarter and 29% compared to the second quarter of last year, driven by higher corporate investment banking revenues. For the first half of 2024, net revenues totaled $691 million, up 22% year-over-year, again, driven by increased corporate investment banking activity as we continue to benefit from our broad and diverse platform as well as more accommodative market conditions relative to 2023.

受企業投資銀行業務收入增加的推動，我們 2024 年第二季的淨收入為 3.57 億美元，比上一季成長 7%，比去年第二季成長 29%。2024 年上半年，淨收入總計 6.91 億美元，年增 22%，這主要得益於企業投資銀行活動的增加，因為我們繼續受益於我們廣泛而多樣化的平台以及相對寬鬆的市場條件。年。

Turning to operating expenses and margin. Our compensation ratio was 62.9% for the second quarter of 2024. Lower compared to the sequential quarter and the second quarter of last year, driven by increased net revenue. For the first half of 2024, our compensation ratio was 63%. Our compensation philosophy remains unchanged, exercising solid operating discipline, while balancing employee retention, investment opportunities and near-term margins. Based on our current outlook, we continue to expect our full year compensation ratio to be near this level.

轉向營運費用和利潤。2024 年第二季我們的薪資率為 62.9%。由於淨收入增加，與上一季和去年第二季相比有所下降。2024年上半年，我們的薪資率為63%。我們的薪酬理念維持不變，實行嚴格的營運紀律，同時平衡員工留任、投資機會和近期利潤。根據我們目前的前景，我們繼續預計全年薪酬比率將接近這一水平。

Non-compensation expenses for the second quarter of 2024, excluding reimbursed deal expenses, were $65 million, an increase of 6% on a sequential basis and down 3% compared to the year ago quarter. Non-compensation expenses during the quarter were higher compared to our guided range due to elevated legal expenses that were unique to the quarter as well as increased recruiting and placement fees. On a year-to-date basis, excluding reimbursed deal costs, non-compensation expenses totaled $126 million or an average of $63 million per quarter. We remain focused on managing the actionable expenses as they are a key driver of operating leverage.

2024 年第二季的非薪資費用（不包括已報銷的交易費用）為 6,500 萬美元，季增 6%，比去年同期下降 3%。由於本季特有的法律費用增加以及招聘和安置費用增加，本季的非薪資費用高於我們的指導範圍。年初至今，不包括已報銷的交易成本，非補償費用總計 1.26 億美元，平均每季 6,300 萬美元。我們仍然專注於管理可採取行動的費用，因為它們是營運槓桿的關鍵驅動因素。

During the second quarter of 2024, we generated operating income of $62 million and an operating margin of 17.3%. For the first half of 2024, operating income totaled $118 million, a meaningful increase over the prior year period, highlighting the operating leverage of our platform. Operating margin for the first half of the year was 17%.

2024 年第二季度，我們實現營業收入 6,200 萬美元，營業利益率為 17.3%。2024 年上半年，營業收入總計 1.18 億美元，較上年同期大幅成長，凸顯了我們平台的營運槓桿。今年上半年的營業利益率為 17%。

Our income tax rate was 26.6% for the second quarter of 2024 and 19% for the first half of the year. Income tax expense for the year-to-date period was reduced by $12 million of tax benefits related to restricted stock award vested. Excluding these benefits, our tax rate for the first half of the year was 29.1%. We continue to expect our full year tax rate to be within a range of 27% to 29%, excluding the impact from stock vesting.

2024年第二季我們的所得稅率為26.6%，上半年為19%。年初至今期間的所得稅費用減少了 1,200 萬美元，與授予的限制性股票獎勵相關的稅收優惠。剔除這些福利，我們上半年的稅率為29.1%。我們繼續預期全年稅率將在 27% 至 29% 的範圍內，不包括股票歸屬的影響。

During the second quarter of 2024, we generated net income of $45 million and diluted EPS of $2.52. For the first half of this year, net income totaled $95 million and diluted EPS was $5.31.

2024 年第二季度，我們實現淨利 4,500 萬美元，攤薄後每股收益為 2.52 美元。今年上半年，淨利潤總計 9,500 萬美元，攤薄後每股收益為 5.31 美元。

Let me finish with an update on capital allocation. Our earnings capacity, combined with our capital-light approach enables us to generate meaningful amounts of excess cash to deploy through share repurchases, dividends and corporate development. Today, the Board approved an 8% increase to our quarterly cash dividend to $0.65 per share. The dividend will be paid on September 13 to shareholders of record as of the close of business on August 29.

最後讓我介紹一下資本配置的最新情況。我們的獲利能力與輕資本方法相結合，使我們能夠產生大量多餘現金，用於透過股票回購、股利和企業發展進行部署。今天，董事會批准將季度現金股息增加 8% 至每股 0.65 美元。股利將於 9 月 13 日支付給截至 8 月 29 日收盤時在冊的股東。

During the second quarter of 2024, we returned an aggregate of $20 million to shareholders, primarily through dividends paid. For the first half of the year, we returned an aggregate of $108 million to shareholders through share repurchases and dividends paid.

2024 年第二季度，我們主要透過支付股利向股東返還總計 2,000 萬美元。上半年，我們透過股票回購和發放股利總計向股東返還1.08億美元。

We repurchased approximately 316,000 shares of our common stock or $58 million related to employee tax withholding on the vesting of restricted stock awards. These repurchases more than offset the share count dilution from this year's annual stock grant. We also paid an aggregate of 50 million or $2.20 per share to our shareholders through our quarterly and special cash dividends.

我們回購了約 316,000 股普通股，即與限制性股票獎勵歸屬時的員工預扣稅相關的 5,800 萬美元。這些回購足以抵銷今年年度股票授予所帶來的股份稀釋。我們也透過季度現金股利和特別現金股利向股東支付了總計 5,000 萬美元或每股 2.20 美元。

Our results for the second quarter and the first half of 2024 continue to reflect strong performance relative to our peer set. We remain focused on providing near-term value to our shareholders, while continuing to grow our platform. We're strongly positioned to accelerate earnings growth as markets continue to normalize.

我們 2024 年第二季和上半年的業績持續反映出相對於同業的強勁表現。我們仍然專注於為股東提供短期價值，同時繼續發展我們的平台。隨著市場繼續正常化，我們有能力加速獲利成長。

With that, we can open up the call for questions.

這樣，我們就可以開始提問了。

(Operator Instructions) James Yaro, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指令）James Yaro，高盛。

Chad, maybe if you could just touch on how your bank clients are thinking about the environment for conducting M&A after a number of years of nearly no activity. Are you seeing early signs of more bank M&A discussions? And what do you think we need for more normalization at this point?

乍得，也許您能談談您的銀行客戶在多年幾乎沒有任何活動後如何看待進行併購的環境。您是否看到更多銀行併購討論的早期跡象？您認為目前我們需要什麼來實現更多正常化？

I would actually say the last month or two does feel a bit more constructive. It really doesn't have much to do with the regulatory environment. I think it's as simple as a lot of small-cap banks, the stocks are up 20%, 30%. That feels better. And obviously, we've been through a tough period of time and CEO has got to look out and figure out how to drive value and earnings and consolidation is a big part of that. So I think it's certainly early to make that call, but we've definitely seen a pickup in those conversations. And obviously, those deals take time, and it's not going to impact this year. But yes, we feel a lot better about how that's going now.

我實際上想說，過去一兩個月確實感覺更有建設性。其實和監管環境沒有太大關係。我認為就像很多小盤銀行一樣簡單，股票上漲了20%、30%。感覺好多了。顯然，我們經歷了一段艱難的時期，執行長必須思考並找出如何推動價值和收益，而整合是其中的重要組成部分。所以我認為現在做出這樣的決定肯定還為時過早，但我們確實看到這些對話有所回升。顯然，這些交易需要時間，而且不會對今年產生影響。但是，是的，我們對現在的情況感覺好多了。

Maybe just keeping on the bank theme. One for you, Deb. I think we are coming obviously closer to the point of rate cuts after Powell's comments recently. Could you speak to what you are hearing from banks in terms of their appetite as we move ahead in terms of willingness or desire to immunize balance sheets ahead of lower rates?

也許只是保持銀行主題。黛布，給你一份。我認為，在鮑威爾最近發表評論之後，我們顯然已經接近降息點了。您能否談談您從銀行那裡聽到的關於在我們在降低利率之前免疫資產負債表的意願或願望方面取得進展的銀行的興趣？

I would say there's more discussion that feels better. I think there's been so many head fakes relative to rate cuts that banks are still a little bit just waiting for almost even a more clear signal before they step in and become more active. So as part of the reason for in my comments, we said we feel like there's some tailwinds. I mean that's part of that. It's just a little bit a matter of timing.

我想說的是，有更多的討論感覺更好。我認為，與降息相關的虛假資訊太多了，以至於銀行仍在等待更明確的信號，然後介入並變得更加積極。因此，作為我評論的部分原因，我們說我們感覺有一些順風。我的意思是這是其中的一部分。這只是一個時間問題。

Devin Ryan, Citizens JMP.

Devin Ryan，公民 JMP。

First question, I guess, really a two-part on advisory near term and maybe longer term. Just on the near term, I'd love to get a little bit more color around what you think is driving maybe the positive shift around the edges with sponsor clients and whether you're seeing it across all industries or if it's concentrated.

我想，第一個問題其實分為兩部分，分別是短期諮商和長期諮商。就短期而言，我希望能更了解您認為推動贊助商客戶邊緣積極轉變的因素，以及您是否在所有行業中看到這種情況，或者是否集中。

And then kind of taking a step back on the longer term, let's just get maybe an update on Piper's advisory coverage footprint today? And where do you feel like you're lined up against the potential fee pools. Meaning, where is there maybe still opportunity where you're undersized relative to the fee opportunity?

然後從長遠來看，讓我們了解一下 Piper 今天的諮詢覆蓋範圍的最新情況？您覺得自己在哪裡與潛在的費用池競爭。意思是，相對於費用機會而言，您的規模是否還較小，哪裡可能還有機會？

I would say with sponsors, I mean, I feel a little like a broken record because we've said this the last couple of quarters, it's been slow, steady improvement, and we've definitely seen an uptick this summer in terms of pitch activity and new proposed transactions, obviously, you never know how much of that's going to make this year or next year.

我會對贊助商說，我的意思是，我感覺有點像打破了記錄，因為我們在過去的幾個季度裡已經說過了，這是緩慢而穩定的進步，而且今年夏天我們在球場方面肯定看到了上升顯然，你永遠不知道今年或明年會產生多少活動和新提議的交易。

But I still think, Devin, the main driving factor besides financing, getting a little bit better is just how long in the tooth some of these funds have been without returning liquidity and I think the longer that time goes on, the more pressure they get from LPs, the more realistic valuations become. And we're certainly feeling that, and there's more funds that are specifically trying to get a particular deal done.

但我仍然認為，德文，除了融資之外，變得更好的主要驅動因素是這些基金中的一些基金在沒有返還流動性的情況下呆了多久，我認為時間越長，他們承受的壓力就越大來自有限合夥人的估值變得更加現實。我們當然感覺到了這一點，並且有更多的資金專門致力於完成特定的交易。

What I would say about the sponsor deals, while all that feels good, it's still not super easy at the end of the road when you're trying to close a deal where we used to have multiple bidders at the end of the process. The processes are still thin, but I would say we are now in a functioning private equity deal market, the calendars definitely open up, pitches are happening more and it's sort of like we said, it's getting better. Relative to your second question about just opportunities. I think the thing we like about our advisory business is just how diverse it is across industry teams, while we just talked about depositories will that stay tough. We're doing really well in energy. We've had a nice return in our -- invested in technology and seen some nice announcements there.

關於贊助商交易，我想說的是，雖然一切感覺都很好，但當你試圖完成一筆交易時，在最後階段，我們過去有多個競標者，這仍然不是一件容易的事。流程仍然很薄弱，但我想說，我們現在處於一個運作良好的私募股權交易市場，日程肯定會開放，推廣活動也越來越多，就像我們說的那樣，情況正在變得更好。相對於你關於機會的第二個問題。我認為我們對諮詢業務的喜愛之處在於它在各個行業團隊中的多樣性，而我們剛剛談到了託管機構是否會保持強硬。我們在能源方面做得非常好。我們在技術方面的投資獲得了不錯的回報，並看到了一些不錯的公告。

And I would say, frankly, our first half healthcare has been kind of slow where 10 years ago, if we were slow in health care, that would have had a bigger impact. But the diversity is pretty good. And we actually think we're going to have a pretty strong back half in health care. But I think within each one of these sectors, especially when it comes to the sponsor community, there's sort of tremendous focus on particular areas.

坦白說，我想說，我們上半年的醫療保健工作進展緩慢，而十年前，如果我們在醫療保健方面進展緩慢，那將會產生更大的影響。但多樣性還是不錯的。事實上，我們認為我們在醫療保健方面將擁有相當強大的後備力量。但我認為在這些領域中的每一個領域，尤其是贊助商社區，都非常關注特定領域。

And I would just highlight as an example, the team we just hired in Michigan, they're going to be part of our diversified industrials and services team, and they specifically spend all their time with sponsors in commercial and residential services. So that's a pretty small sliver.

我只想強調一下，我們剛剛在密西根州僱用的團隊，他們將成為我們多元化工業和服務團隊的一部分，他們專門將所有時間都花在商業和住宅服務領域的贊助商身上。所以這是一個相當小的條子。

Another area we invested in is auto aftermarket. That's a small sliver. So I would say within each of these industry groups, this tremendous depth and focus is really important. And there's quite a bit of runway in many of the industry groups.

我們投資的另一個領域是汽車售後市場。那是一個小條子。因此，我想說，在每個產業群體中，這種巨大的深度和關注都非常重要。許多行業團體都有相當多的跑道。

And then a follow-up here, probably for Deb, just on fixed income brokerage. Appreciate participants are waiting for more certainty on interest rates. The backdrop is still relatively challenged, but then I also heard the comment about optimism that the markets are improving. So I'd just love to -- I think I've asked this question several times, over the last couple of years, but just how we should think about what a more normal level of business is for Piper in fixed income brokerage. Is that $50 million or so a quarter?

然後是關於固定收益經紀業務的後續行動，可能是針對黛布的。讚賞的參與者正在等待利率的更多確定性。背景仍然相對充滿挑戰，但隨後我也聽到了有關市場正在改善的樂觀評論。所以我很想——我想我在過去幾年裡已經問過這個問題好幾次了，但我們應該如何思考 Piper 在固定收益經紀業務中更正常的業務水平。每季約 5000 萬美元嗎？

And then how do you think about the inputs into the algorithm for intermediate term growth off of that. So once we get to something more normal, whenever that happens, what does this business growth look like? Is it mid-single digits, upper single digits? Or how should we think about the actual growth of the underlying business based on the wallet and then what Piper is specifically doing?

然後你如何考慮演算法的輸入以實現中期成長。因此，一旦我們變得更加正常，無論何時發生這種情況，業務成長會是什麼樣子？是中個位數、高個位數嗎？或者說我們應該如何思考基於錢包的底層業務的實際成長以及Piper具體在做什麼？

I think it's hard to predict the timing of when. I think your $50 million a quarter is really in the ballpark of what would be sort of a normalized fixed income business, if there is such a thing anymore. But I would also say then off of that from a growth perspective, we are looking -- we've made some hires in municipals and continue to, even though that's been a strength for us, focus on some areas, maybe softer yield just below IG and having increased capabilities there as well as leveraging more technology.

我認為很難預測具體時間。我認為每季 5000 萬美元確實處於標準化固定收益業務的範圍內（如果還有這樣的事情的話）。但我也想說，從成長的角度來看，我們正在尋找——我們已經在市政部門聘用了一些人，並繼續關注某些領域，儘管這對我們來說是一個優勢，也許收益率略低於IG 並在那裡增強了能力並利用了更多技術。

We're also looking at and have not yet completed everything we'd like to do relative to growing out structured credit sort of the nongovernment backed to the RMBS, ABS, CLO, those types of products. We also think we have significant opportunity in loan strategies where we have strength there, but see the opportunity both with our bank coverage and in particular, even the nonbank coverage to do more there. So those are areas of focus that we're looking at as we move forward.

我們也正在考慮但尚未完成我們想做的一切，涉及發展非政府支持的人民幣支持證券、ABS、CLO 等類型產品的結構性信貸。我們也認為，我們在貸款策略方面擁有重大機會，我們在那裡有實力，但我們的銀行覆蓋範圍，特別是非銀行覆蓋範圍，也看到了在這方面做得更多的機會。因此，這些是我們前進過程中關注的重點領域。

And then I just had one last question here. I received the question just around kind of the back half guidance for the M&A advisory business. I believe it sounded like third quarter should be similar to second quarter was maybe a little bit of upside and then fourth quarter, hopeful that could improve further. But I just, again, based on what you guys are seeing today, I want to make sure we understand how you're framing kind of the back half of the year?

然後我還有最後一個問題。我收到的問題是關於併購諮詢業務的後半部分指導。我相信聽起來第三季度應該與第二季度類似，可能會有一點上行空間，然後是第四季度，希望能進一步改善。但我只是，再一次，根據你們今天所看到的情況，我想確保我們了解你們如何規劃今年下半年的情況？

I would say, Devin, we're at that difficult point in the year where, like I said, the new pitch activity with sponsors and others has been really, really good this summer, but you never know when you're going to start those processes and you never know exactly how many you're going to close end of your early next year. Obviously, we have visibility into how July closing started. And so we made the comment that Q3 looked, for advisory, a lot like Q2. Obviously, that's still up nicely over last year.

我想說，德文，我們正處於今年的困難時期，就像我說的，今年夏天與贊助商和其他人的新推介活動非常非常好，但你永遠不知道什麼時候開始這些流程你永遠不知道明年初年底你將關閉多少流程。顯然，我們可以了解 7 月的收盤是如何開始的。因此，我們評論說，就諮詢而言，第三季看起來很像第二季。顯然，這一數字仍比去年好。

And yes, and then the big question becomes just how good is Q4? I would say relative to last year and just relative performance, we had a very strong Q4. So we recognize it's a difficult comp. But like we said, business is absolutely improving with the pitch calendar and if the pace stays like it is, we feel good about that.

是的，然後最大的問題是第四季有多好？我想說，相對於去年以及相對錶現，我們第四季的表現非常強勁。所以我們認識到這是一個困難的比賽。但正如我們所說，隨著推廣日曆的進行，業務絕對在改善，如果節奏保持現狀，我們對此感覺良好。

Brendan O'Brien, Wolfe Research.

布倫丹‧奧布萊恩，沃爾夫研究中心。

I guess to start, I just want to talk about the Aviditi acquisition. There's rest of a clear gap in your product offering and while the business may not have a material impact on near-term earnings, there's clearly you could see significant synergies plugging the business into your sponsor coverage platform. So I just wanted to get a sense as to how large a business this could become for you over time?

我想首先，我只想談談 Aviditi 收購。您的產品供應中還存在明顯的差距，雖然該業務可能不會對近期收益產生重大影響，但顯然您可以看到將該業務插入您的贊助商覆蓋平台所產生的顯著協同效應。所以我只是想了解一下，隨著時間的推移，這對你來說會變成多大的生意？

And then separately, at this point, do you see any significant gaps in your product offering that you would maybe look to do another acquisition for? Or do you expect acquisitions moving forward to look more like the DBO deal?

然後，在這一點上，您是否發現您的產品供應有任何重大差距，您可能會考慮進行另一次收購？或者您預期未來的收購會更像 DBO 交易嗎？

I'll take Aviditi first. We're very excited about this. I mean it's something I and others at the firm have been looking at for a long time, met a bunch of firms. I think one of the things we like about Aviditi is just quite a bit of overlap with the PE community in the middle market, where we spend a lot of time. I mean there's lots of capital advisory in tangential areas, but these guys do capital raising really in our sweet spot, and it's already just been fun with lots of good private equity clients to kind of share the stories and talk about the opportunities.

我會先服用 Aviditi。我們對此感到非常興奮。我的意思是，這是我和公司其他人長期以來一直在關注的事情，並遇到了很多公司。我認為我們喜歡 Aviditi 的原因之一是它與中間市場的 PE 社區有相當多的重疊，我們在那裡花了很多時間。我的意思是，在切線領域有很多資本諮詢，但這些人確實在我們的最佳位置進行融資，而且與許多優秀的私募股權客戶分享故事並談論機會已經很有趣了。

And you can see it on both sides, like can we move the needle on particular new primary capital raisings for them to have access to our full advisory team? Absolutely. Can they move the needle for us? I mean some of these funds they've been working with for many years. They've got relationships at the top of the house. So they can move the needle on helping us win particular advisory business.

你可以從雙方的角度看到這一點，例如我們能否推動特定的新的主要融資活動，以便他們能夠接觸到我們完整的諮詢團隊？絕對地。他們能為我們帶來改變嗎？我的意思是其中一些基金他們已經合作了很多年。他們在家族高層有關係。因此，他們可以幫助我們贏得特定的諮詢業務。

And I would say that is all before you even talk about secondaries and continuation vehicles, which we are really, really excited about and, frankly, have already started to line up some of those opportunities. So it's only 45 people. It likely doesn't close until end of Q3, early Q4. So it's not going to make a big impact on numbers this year, but we're really excited about just how well this aligns with our core focus on PE.

我想說的是，這就是您談論次級車輛和延續車輛之前的全部內容，我們對此感到非常非常興奮，並且坦率地說，我們已經開始安排其中的一些機會。所以只有45人。它可能要到第三季末、第四季初才會關閉。因此，這不會對今年的數字產生重大影響，但我們對這與我們對私募股權的核心關注點的契合程度感到非常興奮。

And then yes, I would say when it comes to other acquisitions, the larger our advisory platform has gotten and it's broader across industries. It gets harder to find the really big stuff. We would love to do another Sandler type deal. But for the most part, we are still seeing plenty of 50-person boutiques in areas where we've got not a lot of penetration.

然後，是的，我想說，當涉及到其他收購時，我們的諮詢平台變得更大，跨行業也更廣泛。要找到真正大的東西變得越來越困難。我們很樂意再做一次桑德勒式的交易。但在大多數情況下，我們仍然在滲透率不高的地區看到大量 50 人的精品店。

So I think tech and software, frankly, we're doing quite well with some of the DBO stuff, particularly in security and cyber. And I think there's a lot more we can do there. So there's plenty of stuff like that on the road map.

所以我認為技術和軟體方面，坦白說，我們在一些 DBO 方面做得很好，特別是在安全和網路方面。我認為我們可以在那裡做更多的事情。所以路線圖上有很多類似的東西。

And then I guess for my follow-up, I wanted to touch on the election and specifically how a more accommodative FTC could impact activity levels in your view, especially within the bank sector and also on the sponsor side, where I know there's been some challenges within the health care space.

然後我想在我的後續行動中，我想談談選舉，特別是在您看來，更加寬鬆的聯邦貿易委員會將如何影響活動水平，特別是在銀行部門和讚助商方面，我知道在這方面存在一些影響醫療保健領域面臨的挑戰。

I mean I think it's hard to argue that if we had an administration change that we wouldn't see quite a bit of change with sort of some of the regulations. So you can never predict that, but I'd be pretty optimistic that would be good for our depository business and good for several of our industry teams. I mean, yes, we've definitely seen some stuff relative to regulation and deal review in some parts of our strong sectors like health care, that's quite a bit different than the scrutiny we saw 10 years ago, say. So I do think that would be a positive for our M&A business.

我的意思是，我認為很難說，如果我們進行政府改革，我們不會看到某些法規發生很大的變化。所以你永遠無法預測這一點，但我非常樂觀，這對我們的託管業務和我們的幾個行業團隊都有好處。我的意思是，是的，我們確實在醫療保健等強勢行業的某些部分看到了一些與監管和交易審查相關的內容，這與我們 10 年前看到的審查有很大不同。所以我確實認為這對我們的併購業務來說是積極的。

Mike Grondahl, Northland Securities.

麥克‧格隆達爾，北國證券。

One more question, Chad, on Aviditi. The 11 MDs you're picking up, how do we think about sort of average fee or revenue per MD kind of compared to like the Piper investment banking average. Any color there, just how we should think about that?

Chad，還有一個關於 Aviditi 的問題。您挑選的 11 位 MD，與 Piper 投資銀行的平均水準相比，我們如何看待每位 MD 的平均費用或收入。那裡有任何顏色，我們該如何思考？

Yeah, I think it actually, Grundy, it fits pretty well with our overall averages. I think with where we want to get in the long term. I think at the starting point, in our troughs, the productivity is probably closer to 5, which is where we'd be starting out probably for next year. But we see the same opportunity to grow productivity just based on the combination and synergies. But that's going to take some time.

是的，我認為實際上，格倫迪，它非常符合我們的整體平均值。我認為從長遠來看我們想要達到的目標。我認為在起點，在我們的低谷，生產力可能接近 5，這就是我們明年可能開始的水平。但我們也看到了同樣的機會，可以透過組合和協同效應來提高生產力。但這需要一些時間。

And then just jumping back to M&A quick. How would you say your visibility into 4Q has changed over the last three months? I mean has it gotten a lot better, a little bit better? Just maybe a little color there would be helpful.

然後快速跳回併購。您認為過去三個月您對第四季的了解發生了怎樣的變化？我的意思是它變得好多了，好一點了嗎？也許只是一點點顏色會有幫助。

Again, I mean, obviously, when you ask -- if people asked this question in February, March, April, it's almost impossible to answer. It gets a little easier as you get to the summer. But you got to remember, there are certain things that are going to close in Q4 that we haven't even started yet. I mean, there's pitches happening and trying to figure out with those teams are we going to launch right away, so we can close in November, December? Are we going to launch after Labor Day or we're going to wait for the election. So our visibility is definitely better, but we're not going to come out and make some big claim on Q4.

再說一次，我的意思是，很明顯，當你問——如果人們在二月、三月、四月問這個問題時，幾乎不可能回答。到了夏天，事情就會變得更容易。但你必須記住，有些事情將在第四季度結束，但我們甚至還沒有開始。我的意思是，正在與這些團隊進行比稿，並試圖弄清楚我們是否要立即啟動，以便我們可以在 11 月、12 月結束？我們是要在勞動節之後推出還是要等待選舉。因此，我們的知名度肯定更好，但我們不會在第四季度做出重大聲明。

James Yaro, Goldman Sachs.

詹姆斯·亞羅，高盛。

Chad, I think IPOs have improved somewhat less than I think we might have hoped year-to-date. Could you offer some detail on what you're hearing today that's holding back IPOs? I guess, how that's changed year-to-date? And then maybe any sort of context on what your backlogs look like, let's say, versus, let's say, at the beginning of the year.

乍得，我認為 IPO 的改善程度比我們今年迄今為止所希望的要少一些。您能否詳細介紹一下您今天聽到的阻礙 IPO 的情況？我想，今年迄今為止，情況發生了怎樣的變化？然後也許是關於您的積壓訂單情況的任何背景信息，比如說，與年初相比。

I'm glad you asked the question on ECM. I mean, obviously, we made some commentary that Q3 will be a little softer than the first couple of quarters. Obviously, ECM changes really quickly. So I can't really predict what it's going to be like in September. But for us, we're very weighted to health care and biotech.

我很高興您提出有關 ECM 的問題。我的意思是，顯然，我們做了一些評論，認為第三季將比前幾季稍微疲軟。顯然，ECM 變化非常快。所以我真的無法預測九月會是什麼樣子。但對我們來說，我們非常重視醫療保健和生物技術。

And certainly, in the end of June and July, that market has slowed. We still do a plenty of financings when there's sort of big catalysts, but just opportunistic financings. We were seeing a lot more of that in the first half in biotech, and we're not quite seeing as much there.

當然，在六月底和七月，該市場已經放緩。當有某種重大催化劑時，我們仍然會進行大量融資，但只是機會主義融資。上半年我們在生物技術領域看到了更多這樣的情況，但我們並沒有看到那麼多。

I would say relative -- and I think if you just look at the overall ECM fee pool, I think July across the market is the first month that probably wasn't up over last year. And the first six months were and so obviously, for us, the first six months were better than July. But I don't -- August is always a difficult month. And then when there's any market volatility in August, people just wait. So we don't have tremendous visibility into that.

我想說的是相對的——我認為如果你只看整個 ECM 費用池，我認為 7 月份整個市場可能是第一個沒有比去年上漲的月份。很明顯，對我們來說，前六個月比七月好。但我不這麼認為──八月總是艱難的一個月。然後當八月市場出現波動時，人們就會等待。所以我們對此沒有太多的了解。

I do feel like just getting passed an outcome and an election, people always sort of ask us how that's going to impact. No matter what happens, just putting that behind us will make for a better Q4 for ECM. But I agree with you. We are seeing some of the very largest IPOs we have in backlog, the very strongest sort of profile, those all are teeing up and are ready to go, but they haven't decided or they going to go right after Labor Day or right after the election. So there's definitely a pickup coming there, but it's not going to be this summer.

我確實覺得剛剛通過了一個結果和一次選舉，人們總是問我們這會產生什麼影響。無論發生什麼，只要將其拋在腦後，ECM 的第四季就會變得更好。但我同意你的觀點。我們看到一些最大的IPO積壓，最強大的類型，所有這些都在準備並準備好進行，但他們還沒有決定，或者他們將在勞動節之後或之後立即進行選舉。所以肯定會有一輛皮卡到來，但不會是在今年夏天。

Maybe just one last one for Kate. I think you demonstrated robust non-comp discipline once again. But maybe you could just speak to the longer-term inflationary dynamics for non-comp costs as we look ahead the back half in 2025? And any changes to the guidance there?

也許只是凱特的最後一件事。我認為你再次展現了強大的非競爭紀律。但當我們展望 2025 年下半年時，也許您可以談論非補償成本的長期通膨動態？那裡的指導有什麼改變嗎？

So you're right, while there are inflationary pressures that we're facing, particularly in spaces like datacom fees and market data services and a little bit on the T&E front, our guidance really remains unchanged. For the near term, here at $62 million a quarter, of course, ex those reimbursable deal expenses. We are constantly evaluating opportunities to be more disciplined, more efficient there. But we are seeing that as I think the peer set is as well. So again, we'd reiterate the $62 million for the near term here, but we are seeing those categories that we'll be really focused on, and we'll be sure to update the group should that guidance change.

所以你是對的，雖然我們面臨通膨壓力，特別是在數據通訊費用和市場數據服務以及T&E方面的一些領域，但我們的指導確實保持不變。就短期而言，當然，不包括那些可報銷的交易費用，每季為 6,200 萬美元。我們不斷評估在那裡變得更加自律、更有效率的機會。但我們也看到了這一點，我認為同行也是如此。因此，我們再次重申近期的 6200 萬美元，但我們看到了我們將真正關注的那些類別，如果指導方針發生變化，我們一定會更新該小組。

We do not have any further questions. I would like to turn the call back over to Chad Abraham for closing remarks.

我們沒有任何進一步的問題。我想將電話轉回給查德·亞伯拉罕，讓其致閉幕詞。

Thank you, operator, and everyone that joined. We very much look forward to updating you on our third quarter results. Have a great day.

謝謝運營商以及所有加入的人。我們非常期待向您通報我們第三季業績的最新情況。祝你有美好的一天。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。