PLDT Inc (PHI) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us today to discuss the company's financial and operating results for the first quarter of 2024, a copy of today's presentation is posted on our website for those who have not been able to benefit from the download the presentation, www. pldt.com. under the Investor Relations section.

Kindly note that this briefing is being recorded and webcast of this event will be available on our website after the call. If you are going through the presentation is on the screen and the confirmation notices details for today's presentation. We have redemption Chairman and President, Mr. Manuel Pangilinan, Danny Yu, Chief Financial Officer; and Chief Risk Management Officer; Marilyn Aquino, again, our Corporate Secretary and Chief Legal Counsel, Mr, via Founder and CEO of Philippines, as well as other members of the PLDT Group management team.

At this point, let me turn the floor over to Mr. Yoo will begin the presentation.

Good afternoon, everyone. Allow me to share with you PLDT's financial and operating results for the first quarter of 2024 consolidated service revenue for the first quarter grew by 3% to PHP48.7 billion year-on-year. On gross basis, service revenues were higher by 5% compared to the same period last year.

Expenses grew moderately by 1% to PHP21.4 billion. Consolidated EBITDA rose by 5% to PHP27.3 billion, with EBITDA margin stood at 52%. Telco core income, excluding the impact of asset sales and Maiia expanded by 8% to PHP9.3 billion.

Next page, on a segment basis, the strongest growth was registered by our individual or mobile business, having grown 7% to or PHP1.3 billion to PHP21.1 billion in the first quarter. The enterprise segment recorded a 3% revenue increase to PHP12.1 billion, while home segment revenues were stable year-on-year at PHP15 billion, fiber revenues were higher by 7% for PHP900 million compared to the same period last year let me now go through the segments in greater detail.

On this slide we highlight that while the headline service revenue growth stood at 3% the actual improvement, excluding the drag from legacy revenues, stands at 8% in the individual segment. Mobile data accounting for 88% of the total segment revenues grew by 11% year-on-year versus segment growth of 7%, which reflected the impact of the drag from legacy SMS and voice fiber only revenues, which account for 92% of home segment revenues grew 7%, while the overall home segment revenue we stable year-on-year corporate data and ICT, the growing revenue streams under the enterprise segment were higher by 8%, stronger than the overall segment revenue increase of 3%.

Next, please.

Service revenues for the individual segment jumped 7% in the first quarter reflecting strong data monetization. Blended RPU was higher by 21% compared with a 10% rise in average usage, not that the seasonal quarter on quarter deep in the first quarter was slower than the deep in the same quarter last year.

Other indicators of improvement meant in segment performance are the increase in mobile data users to PHP39.4 million and 11% growth in mobile data revenues and a 7% rise in each of prepaid and postpaid revenues.

Among the initiatives to accelerate growth are locking in customers for longer periods, driving retention with growing the adoption of 5G and a structured price laddering for prepaid next, please, 92% of revenues on the home segment are now from the fiber business. Fiber only revenues continued to improve, recording a 7% rise year-on-year to PHP13.7 billion.

On fiber. [Rpus] saw improvement year-on-year and remained at around the 1,500 level, increased focus on quality of service has sought reduced churn. Fiber churn improved to 1.82% for the first quarter of the year. PLDT, is of the view that there are, I assume an underserved markets in the home broadband space, please include new areas, potential customers at the lower end of the market as well as niche markets at the higher end, PLDT. continues to leverage this unique advantage of having an integrated network, which enables it to offer a suite of fixed and wireless services at different price points to cater to different segments of the market.

PLDT, continues to enjoy strong brand equity and superior network quality, making it a formidable competitor in the market next.,

While the enterprise segment registered a 3% year-on-year growth in the first quarter of the year. The growth from corporate data and ICT were stronger at 8%. The growth drivers where core connectivity wins grew 2% due to higher fiber and managed IT data revenues. Higher ICT revenues from cloud services, ePLDT. money services as well as technical solutions.

Worth noting is the growing revenue contribution from A2P or application to phone services, which are the SMSOTP. or onetime password messages related to online transactions. Included in our enterprise offers are differentiated SD-WAN, managed networking and IoT platform portfolio of services.

We also continue to expand our capabilities in AI and cloud. The Santa Rosa data center remains on track with the first 10 megawatts capacity expected to come onstream by July this year, pool of capacity is expected to be a year ahead of competition, making ePLDT well positioned to serve the existing global demand from hyperscale's.

Total cash OpEx was moderately higher by PHP600 million in the first quarter, offset by decreases in cost of services provisions and subsidies, resulting in a minimal 1% rise in total OpEx, the company remains focused on extracting operations efficiencies as well as cost management.

Consolidated EBITDA for the first three months of 2024 rose 5% to PHP27.3 billion, setting a new record mainly from higher revenues. EBITDA margin stood at 52%, 2024 registered a strong start with, Telco Core. income for the quarter of PHP9.3 billion higher year-on-year by 8% from PHP8.6 billion in 2023, reflecting the impact of higher EBITDA, partly offset by higher financing costs and tax preparation.

On a reported basis, PLDT income expanded by 9% to PHP9.8 billion, mainly from derivatives and our sales schemes. Note that our share in losses from Maya for the quarter stood at about PHP400 million lower than last year and consistent with the expectation of Maya's bottom line breakeven in the last quarter of 2024.

PLDT's balance sheet remains healthy with net debt to EBITDA at the end of the quarter at 2.9 times, marginally better than the end of 2023. We remain focused on achieving our target leverage of 2.0 times, which we expect to attain with the anticipated increases in EBITDA reduction in CapEx and with the balance of the tower sales proceeds, gross debt amounted to PHP257 billion, of which 15% are dollar-denominated and 5% unhedged. Interest costs for the period stood at 4.8% pre-tax, while the average life of debt is 6.9 years.

Next total CapEx for the quarter stood at PHP15.7 billion, consisting of network and IT CapEx of PHP14.1 billion and business CapEx of PHP1.6 billion. Capex intensity stood at 30% for the quarter from the PHP33 million commitment net of advances to major CapEx vendors. The remaining commitment, it has been reduced to PHP10.3 billion for 2024.

Our CapEx guidance is PHP75 billion to PHP78 billion, consistent with our aim to continue to reduce CapEx. The growth in the number of unique 5G devices and 5G data traffic continues in 2024, as mentioned earlier, growing 5G adoption is one of the growth levers of our individual business smartphones. It was recently awarded 5G coverage experience award by OpenSignal. I'll now turn you over to Shailesh for Maya,

Thank you, Danny at any Maya, continues to be at the forefront of driving digital financial services in the Philippines and we achieved very strong growth by leveraging our robust ecosystem across both consumers and enterprise and by putting my our bank additional bank at the heart of it within two years of launch.

Now my our bank is the largest digital bank in the Philippines, and this was achieved through a delivery of innovative banking solutions by leveraging our very large and diverse customer base comprising both various consumers and also various enterprises, some key figures to share. By the end of March 2024, we had 3.4 million depositors.

This was nearly double the number that we had at the end of quarter one. In 2023, our deposit balance grew to PHP29 billion, which was again a substantial increase of over 40% from the same period last year. And importantly, our loan disbursements from the launch of our loans has gone now the PHP34 billion mark in terms of total loans disbursed.

It gives us more color across the segments on the enterprise side, where we provide end to end Merchant Acquiring and Payment Processing Solutions. We continue to solidify our status as the Philippines payment backbone by enabling large, small and micro businesses to accept digital payments.

To give you some idea of our size and scale via processes, 45% of all transactions by count and 49% by value for QRBH., the government you are standard in the Philippines in the first quarter of 2024, we have now started providing banking services to the various businesses, allowing merchant partners to open their business deposit account digitally and offering uncollateralized short-term working capital loans to the merchants of up to PHP2 million on the back of the payment business.

With us on the next slide, for the consumer side of the business, we are the pioneers for high engagement banking which gives customers a high interest rate on the savings account on the back of them doing a lot of their activity on payments transactions, bill payment and the likes of that which gives us deep insight into their behavior and goes into then our credit scoring models

Combined with a strong update on our new product time deposit plus, as I mentioned, we have seen a big growth in our deposit base to 3.4 million customers as of December 2023, based on the data published by the SP., the Central Bank Maya, accounted for 51% of the deposit base of the digital banks in the Philippines,

Maya credit has been at the forefront of providing fast, convenient short-term unsecured loans for customers and we have introduced new lending products like personal loans, which are of longer durations. These loans are now being offered for mobile device financing for smart customers and to PLDT home subscribers.

We continue to further drive financial inclusion across the Philippines, but signing of it for low and channeling deals with partners who are qualified and certified digital lenders in the Philippines, starting with a fintech lending company, global fintech lending company dial-up, and we will continue to expand other such partnerships.

So overall, we continue to see month on month and quarter on quarter strong performance and continue to see strong revenue growth and the control on expenses and reduction in the cash burn with the IRS getting to positive cash by the end of this year.

Our outlook for 2024 is one of optimism, and we anticipate mid-single-digit growth underpinned by robust increases in data and broadband. Revenues across the business segments supported by the expected top line growth and continued focus on operating efficiencies and cost management. We expect EBITDA to grow by mid-single digit as we attempt to expand EBITDA margin beyond the current level. We're also looking to end 2024 with a Telco Core, north of PHP35 billion, consistent with our commitment to lower the CapEx headline number and CapEx intensity over time.

Our CapEx guidance for 2024 is PHP75 billion to PHP78 billion. This includes fresh CapEx for the year and the deliveries of prior year's commitments we reiterate our commitment or 60% dividend payout and our continued focus on deleveraging back to our target of 2.0 times net debt to EBITDA and achieving positive free cash flow after dividends, which we expect by 2026. That ends my part.

For now, because people can make their questions in the Q&A box in that side of the screen. (Operator Instructions).

So, we can start the questions that were sent to me, or would you characterize the competitive landscape in the wireless?

To respond to the question on the wireless space and the competitive landscape, we see continued for service quality. We can sense that from the growth in the network built not just from smart but from the other players in the industry second, there's also a lot of emphasis now on ensuring that we remain relevant to customers.

And there are some behavioral shifts that we are seeing with respect to the customer base so we understand that if we look at time place and accretion of useful mobile data with the current issues on index employment now and all the macro-economic indicators, we now have to take a look at offers sector mode, longer validity, probably higher bandwidth now and understanding especially those customers who were probably difficulties now who are on 15 or 30 paid the kind of schedule. So we have to accommodate the requirements of the customers in order to provide not just value, but to ensure better CX over time.

Ranjan Sharma from JPMorgan Chase & Co

Hi, can you hear me?

Hello?

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can hear you and Ranjan.

Hi, thank you for the presentation. It's Ranjan from JPMorgan. Two questions from my side. Firstly, on your guidance on Telco Core income of PHP35 billion or more, do you have already achieved PHP9.3 billion, so the possibility of a possible tighten. The guidance for the north of PHP35 billion is a pretty wide range. Like how should we be thinking about where you save PHP36 billion, PHP37 billion, PHP40 billion, if you could give some more color around this?

And secondly, on your guidance of a positive free cash flow after dividends in 2025. But if we think of 2024, would you be positive free cash flow before dividends? Thank you.

And for you for your first question, I think we have to consider the seasonality of the revenues. So, but for now we're still looking at a lot of PHP35 billion. So, what was the second question?

Sorry, Ranjan, I didn't hear that by building

Free cash flow, free cash flow, we showed free cash flow in the first quarter? So, exit liking also. So, my question is like, okay, because you expect ability to be free cash flow positive before dividends in 2024?

But maybe I should if they step in the same Ranjan, with JPMorgan for stroke,

Yes, that's correct certainly, a very mathematical. You're correct, right. But of course, the word business work to perfection in terms of mathematics, clearly the internal target this year, so higher than the PHP35 billion number to indicate.

I think we'll get to give you a better fix on the numbers once we announce our first half results sometime in late August for the internal targets are certainly approximate the numbers that you have indicated. So we're certainly shooting for by our numbers at least higher than PHP65 billion of EBITDA so far, if you could quickly get if the wireless business maintains momentum it established since the fourth quarter this last year and the first quarter this year, then that will help. I think we need to get the home broadband growing starting the second quarter and the enterprise as well sequences, cheaper and a greater level of tools for these three revenue streams for the balance sheet.

Second part is actually the best quarters typically for smart and for the industry. So certainly we strive to achieve the numbers are close enough to the numbers that you have indicated and yesterday the free cash flows, it's likely that we will produce free cash flow before dividends for the year. And if you're successful in disposing of some for intercity data center, I think that will have to that picture.

Got it. Thank you.

We Good afternoon and thanks for hosting the call and congrats on the results. Three questions from me, please. The first one on the mobile side, I guess a bit of color as you've mentioned, the blended ARPU higher 21% year-on-year and only 10% due to usage. Or could you remind us was this driven by subscribers moving up to higher plans? Or did you reduce promotional items which effectively increased your yield?

Second question is on the fixed broadband on the broadband business side, just looking at slide 31, you had net growth because of fixed wireless, which offset the net disconnections of fiber.

Is this on the migration essentially internal migration or is it essentially really fixed wireless is driving growth and there's net disconnections at the fixed broadband side.

And last question is yesterday to the data center monetization that we've seen in the press, if it does push through, would you look to reinvest all of the funds or do you think you'll allocate for in special dividend or the like?

I guess a quick answer to the question on mobile ARPUs. So yes, so we have seen over 22% growth in ARPU, and this attributed to two things. We have seen the growth in mobile data revenues. I think that's already been mentioned earlier. And second, I think we have increased the number of daily active customers who are reloading. So that comes on the back end of number one, increase 5G devices latch onto the network.

Now we have seen practically a growth of over 60% unless devices in the last six months, and we will continue to do that for a second there's a lot of impetus behind network build and resiliency, and we are ensuring that we are able to reduce LTE. congestion where majority of our customers can recite. So I hope that answers your question.

Yes, it does. Thanks.

Can you repeat your second question?

Sorry, we didn't get on the fixed broadband side on Slide 31 is showing our net growth in broadband subs, but that's largely because of our fixed wireless offsetting fixed wireless growth. Offsetting the fiber disconnections is that internal migration between fixed and fixed wireless? Or that's really a picture of the real picture or really.

(inaudible) I'll take that question. Certainly, people might come around. I'll take that question. If that's okay.

Firstly, fixed wireless actually saw a 4% growth in its base in the first quarter. So, we actually had 14,000 net customers for the fixed wireless business. So that was a growth. And also from a fiber perspective, operational reports will actually show a growth also from our fiber business to the tune of about 37,000 net adds excluding a one-off cleanup that we actually executed an upfront cohort of customers that we were actually treating for an extended period of time. So I'm good there. It's actually not a drag from fixed wireless to fiber and or any specific sort of migration between the two technologies?

We are seeing fixed wireless start to improve. In fact, if you look at quarter one year-on-year, it's down to about PHP30 million down year-on-year. So we'll start this as fixed wireless continues to grow its base. We'll start to see that actually come through on a positive basis. The drag in the home business is really coming through from our legacy business and so that's the legacy DSL VDSL as well as our voice business.

Secondly, Luis, your third question. So, any proceeds will likely be used to pay off debt?

So, I don't think there will be special dividends for now.

And I think it's fair to say that the bulk of the proceeds from the sell-down of the data center and put towards debt reduction have been commentaries by the ratings agencies, Moody's and S&P about part of the debt for exposition of steel being, of course, the free cash flow aspects as well. So very mindful of the fact that given the bulk of the proceeds from any sell-down for that.

Now, of course, they have shareholders like yourselves, I suppose. So we will take a little depending on the quantum of the of the cash that we get not the principal consideration of that deduction. If it's a fair amount of money that we get faster than we get them, we should be able to sell those a little cluster what was unique was the issue for me once you get that from now to the city for the new branches.

So yes, both Thank you for the great day are very clear, Mr. question in the Q&A box from Vermont that apart they ask for their Eastern speaking to jump in full-time data traffic in the first quarter.

Yes, I think I already answered in part earlier a second. I just want to emphasize aside from installed devices, which have grown the big way, particularly for 5G, I think on LT, we're also seeing a on the congestion of LTE use, especially those of the high cap bandwidth utilization. And I think that's a focus for us to move such high demand customers to 5G very soon.

Aside from network build, we'd like to in co-ordination with our vendor partners, a push for device upgrades so that we will see a better utilization overall for the network.

While we continue to invest in capacity. We also would like to make sure that there's a corresponding utilization to improve paper.

And I think your second question's already answered what you see in terms of RPU for the mobile segment. If you wanted to add to that,

Yes, we have seen a growth of over 21% for both brands of smart prepaid and we are confident that this will continue to grow in the next six months.

That's okay. I'm sorry, that is from (inaudible) their surveys and from John. But John, it just basically.

Hi. Thanks, Melissa, and thank you for the opportunity. Just two quick follow-up questions. First is on broadband. I see on slide 6 that the churn rate for fiber was actually stable. So it would have implied that. But because net adds were negative, gross adds for fiber weren't as much as it was in the second half of last year.

So, maybe we could provide some color on why is that the case that first?

I actually don't have that particular slide in front of me, but we actually did record a positive net adds for fiber, as I mentioned, net of the onetime cleanup, we actually had 37,000 per home and net adds for the fiber business. And you'll see there that term churn has actually been stable with that onetime cleanup. However, when you look at reversing the onetime cleanup and you look at the operational,

The organic churn that's actually happening, we have seen an improvement in our churn levels. So we are actually seeing an improvement in our churn levels as customers were actually looking to stay longer. And this is something we want to continue to build on as we start to ramp up our rollout and also start to ramp up our new customer acquisitions.

I think Jeremiah, just a quick follow-up. I'm just trying to make sense of the revenue growth in the first quarter. So home broadband was, as you said, flat. So how which would you ascribe I guess, is this trend? So is the growth story, the growth you have actually suffered.

Okay. Sorry, John, to answer your question, the growth that you'll see you're seeing or the growth that we derive from the net adds and the activities are actually being shown in your fiber business. So, the fiber business grew at a rate of 7% or PHP900 million year-on-year and it's really being dragged down at the moment with the decline in our copper business or our legacy businesses that relate primarily to copper as well as voice.

So, if you exclude that out, you actually look at the just the fiber business alone, you'll actually see that is growing at a rate of 7% per year.

Okay. Thanks, and if I understood it correctly. I guess the drag from the copper business was more than in this quarter than in the second half of last year. Just to complete that, it's in EBIT (technical difficulty) there is there.

Yes, I think sorry, John. I think directly, yes, there is the drag from it is reflecting actually more than it has been in the past and we'll be looking to actually address that as we start to ramp up and reaccelerate our deployment of our fiber ports and we look to ramp up our new customer acquisitions in the past, you'll actually have seen our fiber business growing at very, very high rates like a 20% 30%, even 40%, so much higher than any other drought, which actually are, I guess, offset any of the drag that we would have got from our legacy business. But given we are reaccelerating our fiber deployment starting this year, we'll look to actually get.

Okay, thank you. That's very clear. Just one very quick follow-up housekeeping question and I see depreciation in the first quarter relatively flat from last year. Is it safe to assume in our call it sub PHP12 billion per quarter.

Depreciation expense or you on it's most likely to increase. It's going to increase slightly towards the latter part of the year. Mainly due to our newly capitalized assets narrow. So it's going to be slightly higher than the current level.

Okay. Thank you very much and again, congrats on the results.

Thanks, Dan. Chris, a question, e-mail, what's the rationale for Eaton's acquisition?

Thank you very much for that question. So essentially, it's a very important time to leverage the strategic synergies that we can get from both a PLDT Enterprise, PLDT home loan and the regional business. Vegas is known to have a very strong enterprise brand. We actually we aim to be able to make the journey simpler. It's secured by design data connectivity upfront.

So, we can leverage both PLDT's network and regional network to provide better experiences for our customers. And it also helps with our CapEx that we don't need to build in the same place from a consumer perspective, it's something that they are best practices in regions that we can leverage within the home business for seeking better executions from a strategic synergy perspective, both from a rollout perspective platforms. They have a prepaid platform that we're looking to see if we can leverage within the group and just more of these stories will continue as we get deeper into the region engagement.

Sir, Justice, but I'll maybe just add a bit of smart product to this theme the pages has been, as you know, it remains on from wells was to assist the company to be able to figure out because it's a wholly owned subsidiary. But nevertheless, it has been a bit of a pain point when it was it fell, which initiatives are independent of monitoring unit to the interests of PLDT like a heavy on CapEx to be in fiber, yes, marketing to both individuals and to enterprises without coordinating is it enterprise.

So the best that we can get coordinated on the home broadband front, as George indicated, previous just quotes that the demand for wood fiber network in the basement of Metro Manila in certain parts of the franchise areas of Meralco and number two, the install base base. So it's best leasehold, but from a group perspective, but the stake or didn't buy the ticket for David, on the enterprise part of our professional losses on the consumer front from the individuals on homes homes itself, but the enterprise side.

And I think what we want to do is migrate we own customers of pages too home broadband or speed because in any event homes are major systems in MoneyOnMobile on the home front. That should happen pretty quickly to the investment that suite. And I think Joe just see PHP4 billion someone from enterprise to manage the images business, the cohort data in terms of approaching an in-home broadband market for the individuals, individual homes.

And then yes, another question has been emailed. Any color that you can give on the competitive land think for the home base?

Thank you. So, the landscape is, I guess, remains to be quite competitive and I think everybody has been looking at it different moves from competition, whether they're the main ones are also from some of the informal competition from P2P players, right is there's definitely pressure when you look at it from our price points coming down and looking at increased speeds at certain data allowances and also the introduction of our prepaid.

So, it is a highly competitive environment. We're being quite careful in the way that we approach the market. We've been able to hold our RPUs quite high now over the period of our higher level of commoditization. And but we will start to look at how we address the different segments of the market.

There's two ways to grow as actually has three ways to grow. One, as you expand your you're basing your network. Second one is you switch customers from competitive networks. and the third one is actually attacking different segments within your existing footprint.

So, we'll be looking to actually ARM. I have an attack on all three fronts this year. And so we'll be very careful with the way that we do that. So that is value accretive and something that doesn't destroy value and actually come up cannibalize our base.

Any update on the DC sales Essentis?

Well, think of it as a key. It's fair to say that the discussions with several parties that have expressed interest in investing in our data centers. As far as the whole spectrum, right, the principal point of discussion we've had this with NTT Docomo was very keen to invest into data centers, but on the gearbox side and that sort of values that we expect to finish are the data centers, which is north of [PHP1 billion] now and that the key,

However, is the condition that they wanted to have is that they would have majority the ability to consolidate data centers and that sort of stuff in our approach because leasing that has a good future for PLC to give up control and a significant portion of that equity interest into data centers that already justified.

And we told Docomo, or they are investors, NPLs and feeds for they should we should be able to accommodate this in the best interest of people here after the shareholders have said besides, I think if we do away with the consolidation of data centers represents approximately PHP5 billion or PHP6 billion and source of revenues when we do possess maturity interest in these centers. And that's that requires more explaining to you guys, right. Why did our revenues dropped by PHP5 billion or PHP6 billion trying to avoid that.

And so, we've talked to other private equity funds who may be willing to take a significant minority interests, the values that you see for investment, but also more prepared to pay. So, we have to ponder very so really about whether that's something we would like to have or to take an alternative form of a blended approach by adopting (inaudible).

But that's something I think they're quite serious about because that's fairly close enough to be top of valuation. And since the accommodation, the interest of the other key in terms of being able to continue to consolidate, continue to manage the data centers and expanded greatly received, and we would hope to try to get a partner that can add value, add that to the revenue line and to the expansion of data centers. If there's any of that.

That's how we operate and that we know that for the for the value of the need to grow in the future that we do have to expand the distress of data centers. So that's fine. That's fine with us, which means that we are in many ways persuaded to adopt an expansive mode in our data center business.

What you like, but on the port. So, we hope that we could send you towards the end of June, which route to take some of those are the three available possibilities or options for us to for us to generate cash flow, Investment Banking there somewhere interested versus the percentage as far as the question and confirm any updates on the DigiScope?

Yes, on the visibility to consistency, that might mean it has completed its full branch where piece, but that's stuff that we have been moving along. And a lot of our focus has really been around the data portion of some of the group's global business. So, we have managed to already move into and we're very pleased with the size of fleet that's the solution.

So, we we've managed to stand up what we call data sandboxes, either like a mini experience centers on the Belco for Monaco as well as for Dolby, our next in line. I was trying to figure out do we and how we can cross-pollinate the data. And the thesis was we can do this, then it will actually showcase new insights into our customer base. These insights now should allow us to service them better should allow us to come up with new products.

Any other questions? You raised your hand type in the Q&A box?

And there's a question from Stephen. How the various buckets of the tower sales deals are looking?

Are we looking at for this year if we already received around PHP84 billion out of the total PHP98 billion. So, we have yet to transfer around the PHP1,088 billion. So, if we get to sell this power transfer is then that's around PHP14 billion if you get the chance for all this year.

Any other questions? There are no further questions and I'll turn the floor over back to Mr. Banducci and for institutions.

And thank you to be in with a thank you to all of you for joining us this afternoon. Sitting to our station and especially to answer your questions, we look forward to talking to you again at the end of our site for the first half results of the FDA and give you a better fix full year numbers and the special dividends that have put us into an upswing.

Thank you. With that, thank you for joining us today and have a good afternoon.