Perma-Fix Environmental Services Inc (PESI) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and welcome to the Perma-Fix Fiscal Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions)

早安，歡迎參加 Perma-Fix 2025 財年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

Please note this conference is being recorded. I will now turn the conference over to your host David Waldman of Crescendo Communications. David, the floor is yours.

請注意，本次會議正在錄製。現在我將會議交給主持人 Crescendo Communications 的 David Waldman。大衛，現在請你發言。

Thank you, Jenny, and good morning everyone. Welcome to Perma-Fix Environmental Services Second Quarter 2025 Conference Call. On the call with us this morning are Mark Duff, President and CEO; Dr. Louis Centofanti, Executive Vice President of Strategic Initiatives; and Ben Naccarato, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝你，珍妮，大家早安。歡迎參加 Perma-Fix 環境服務 2025 年第二季電話會議。今天早上與我們通話的有總裁兼首席執行官馬克·達夫 (Mark Duff)、戰略計劃執行副總裁路易斯·森托凡蒂博士 (Louis Centofanti) 和首席財務官本·納卡拉托 (Ben Naccarato)。

The company issued a press release this morning containing second quarter 2025 financial results, which is also posted on the company's website. If you have any questions after the call or like any additional information about the company, please contact Crescendo Communications at 212-671-1020.

該公司今天上午發布了一份新聞稿，其中包含 2025 年第二季的財務業績，該新聞稿也發佈在公司網站上。如果您在通話後有任何疑問或想了解有關該公司的更多信息，請聯繫 Crescendo Communications，電話：212-671-1020。

I'd also like to remind everyone that certain statements contained within the conference call may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and include certain non-GAAP financial measures. All statements on this conference other than a statement of historical fact or forward-looking statements that are subject to known unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors which could cause actual results and performance of the company to differ materially from such statements. These risks and uncertainties are detailed in the company's filings of the US Securities and Exchange Commission, as well as this morning's press release.

我還想提醒大家，電話會議中包含的某些聲明可能被視為《1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案》所定義的前瞻性聲明，其中包括某些非 GAAP 財務指標。本次會議的所有陳述除歷史事實陳述或前瞻性陳述外，均受已知未知風險、不確定性和其他因素的影響，這些因素可能導致本公司的實際結果和業績與此類陳述有重大差異。這些風險和不確定性在公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件以及今天上午的新聞稿中有詳細說明。

The company makes no commitment to disclose any revisions to forward-looking statements or any facts, events, or circumstances after the day hereof that bear upon forward-looking statements. In addition, today's discussion will include references to non-GAAP measures. Perma-Fix believes that such information provides an additional measurement and consistent historical comparison of its performance. A reconciliation of the non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is available in today's news release and on our website.

本公司不承諾揭露對前瞻性陳述的任何修訂或本新聞稿發布之日後與前瞻性陳述相關的任何事實、事件或情況。此外，今天的討論還將涉及非公認會計準則衡量指標。Perma-Fix 認為，此類資訊為其性能提供了額外的衡量標準和一致的歷史比較。今天的新聞稿和我們的網站上提供了非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 指標與最直接可比較的公認會計準則 (GAAP) 指標的對帳表。

I'd now like to turn the call over to Mark Duff. Please go ahead, Mark.

現在我想把電話轉給馬克·達夫。請繼續，馬克。

All right, thank you, David, and good morning, everyone. We delivered a sequential and year-over-year revenue growth in the second quarter accompanied by a meaningful improvement in our gross margin. These results reflect continued progress on our operational initiatives, particularly within our treatment segment, where revenue increased approximately 37% compared to the same period last year.

好的，謝謝你，大衛，大家早安。我們第二季的營收實現了環比和年成長，同時毛利率也顯著提高。這些結果反映了我們營運措施的持續進展，特別是在我們的治療領域，該部門的收入與去年同期相比增長了約 37%。

Even more notable was the fact that our waste receipts more than doubled year-over-year to approximately 14 million in Q2 of 25. That said, treatment results were tempered by technical challenges that limited production capacity early in the quarter. These issues have been resolved through automation and process improvements that are already enhancing our throughput, improving safety, and reducing manual labor. We expect to realize the full benefit of these enhancements in the second half of the year.

更值得注意的是，2025 年第二季我們的垃圾處理量年增了一倍多，達到約 1,400 萬美元。儘管如此，由於本季初的技術挑戰限制了生產能力，處理效果受到了影響。這些問題已透過自動化和流程改進得到解決，從而提高了我們的產量、改善了安全性並減少了體力勞動。我們預計在今年下半年實現這些改進的全部效益。

Importantly, we continue to realize steady shipments from Hanford in support of the cleanup program as well as the tank management mission, which are estimated to be about $3 million of revenue per month. On a related note, the Department of Energy recently announced the delay in the DF Law facility startup from August 1 to as late as October 15th. Despite the short-term delay, that program represents substantial new revenue streams for us. We remain encouraged by the long-term outlook for DF Law and the substantial reoccurring revenue and cash flow it is expected to contribute once operational.

重要的是，我們繼續從漢福德實現穩定的出貨量，以支持清理計劃以及油罐管理任務，估計每月的收入約為 300 萬美元。相關消息稱，能源部最近宣布將 DF Law 設施的啟動時間從 8 月 1 日推遲至 10 月 15 日。儘管存在短期延遲，但該計劃對我們來說代表著大量新的收入來源。我們仍然對 DF Law 的長期前景以及其投入營運後預計將貢獻的大量經常性收入和現金流感到鼓舞。

In our services segment, project delays occurred earlier in the quarter, largely due to the Federal government and Federal procurement timing impacting our results. However, field execution, cleanup and remediation work is now tracking on schedule across key DUE and DVD sites.

在我們的服務部門，專案延遲發生在本季度早些時候，主要是由於聯邦政府和聯邦採購時間影響了我們的業績。不過，目前主要 DUE 和 DVD 站點的現場執行、清理和補救工作正在按計劃進行。

We're also pleased to report that our team was awarded a position on the Navy's $240 million (inaudible) IDIQ contract during the quarter. This award enforces our core competencies in radiological cleanup and positions us for a steady stream of potential task or opportunities in the coming quarters.

我們也很高興地報告，我們的團隊在本季度獲得了海軍 2.4 億美元（聽不清楚）IDIQ 合約的職位。該獎項增強了我們在放射性清理方面的核心競爭力，並使我們在未來幾季獲得穩定的潛在任務或機會。

We've also entered the six-month period, a planning period for the West Valley project as part of the BDXT-led team where we expect to play a key role in long-term DUE cleanup efforts. While revenue recognition will be tied to DUE's approval of our final performance strategy expected later this year, we view this as a significant multi-year opportunity for our services business.

作為 BDXT 領導的團隊的一部分，我們也進入了為期六個月的西谷專案規劃期，我們希望在長期 DUE 清理工作中發揮關鍵作用。雖然收入確認將與 DUE 預計在今年稍後批准我們的最終績效策略掛鉤，但我們認為這對我們的服務業務來說是一個重要的多年機會。

Returning now to PFAS, we made strong progress this quarter on multiple fronts. We expanded demonstration activities with both with both Fortune 500 companies and large government agencies. And year-to-date, PFAS related sales have reached approximately 500,000, representing about 30,000 gallons of material material so far.

現在回到 PFAS，本季我們在多個方面取得了重大進展。我們擴大了與財富 500 強企業和大型政府機構的示範活動。今年迄今為止，PFAS 相關銷量已達到約 50 萬，相當於迄今為止約 3 萬加侖的材料。

Our daily operations have resumed at our Perma-FAS unit in Florida, and construction is underway on our Gen 2 system in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, which is designed to sort up to 3,000 gallons of production per day while reducing the unit operating costs. The Gen 2 system also -- will also provide the potential to support mobile field deployment options for use in landfills, waste treatment plants, and remote sites. We continue to be encouraged by the technology's destruction performance and its scalability, and the ability to reduce liability for our customers at a competitive price point.

我們位於佛羅裡達州的 Perma-FAS 單位已恢復日常運營，位於田納西州橡樹嶺的 Gen 2 系統正在建設中，該系統旨在每天對多達 3,000 加侖的產品進行分類，同時降低單位運營成本。Gen 2 系統還將提供支援移動現場部署選項的潛力，以用於垃圾掩埋場、廢物處理廠和偏遠地區。該技術的破壞性能和可擴展性以及以具有競爭力的價格為客戶減少責任的能力繼續令我們感到鼓舞。

Internationally, we've received over 7 million in waste receipts during the past few quarters and continue to see strong interest from customers in Canada, Germany, Mexico, and Italy. Our EUR50 million contract with the European Union and Italy is progressing through the permitting and preparation phase, and we remain on track to initiate treatment operations in 2026.

在國際上，過去幾季我們已收到超過 700 萬份廢棄物收據，並繼續看到來自加拿大、德國、墨西哥和義大利的客戶的濃厚興趣。我們與歐盟和義大利簽訂的價值 5000 萬歐元的合約正在申請許可並進入準備階段，我們仍有望在 2026 年開始處理作業。

Across the organization, we remain focused on disciplined cost management and targeted margin improvement initiatives which have continued to be implemented throughout Q3 as well. These programs are already contributing to improved productivity and are expected to support stronger [eBay] performance in the second half.

在整個組織中，我們仍然專注於嚴格的成本管理和有針對性的利潤率提高舉措，這些舉措在整個第三季度也繼續實施。這些計劃已經對提高生產力做出了貢獻，預計將支持 [eBay] 在下半年實現更強勁的業績。

In addition to our revenue generating activities, we're pursuing several large scale federal and commercial procurement opportunities, including bids with the US Army Corps of Engineers and DUE National Laboratories. Combining these opportunities represent more than $200 million in potential contract value with award decisions expected during the first half of '26.

除了創收活動外，我們還在尋求幾個大規模的聯邦和商業採購機會，包括與美國陸軍工程兵團和 DUE 國家實驗室的投標。這些機會加起來意味著潛在的合約價值超過 2 億美元，預計在 26 年上半年做出授予決定。

Company-wide, our waste backlog currently stands at approximately 13.2 million, providing strong visibility into the second half of treatment volumes and services activities. We're also encouraged by evolving PFAS policy and regulatory developments in both the Federal and the state levels which continue to support demand for comprehensive destructive technologies like ours.

就全公司而言，我們的廢棄物積壓量目前約為 1,320 萬，這為下半年的處理量和服務活動提供了良好的可視性。我們也對聯邦和州兩級不斷發展的 PFAS 政策和監管發展感到鼓舞，這些政策和發展繼續支持對像我們這樣的綜合破壞性技術的需求。

With growing treatment volumes, renewed activity in our services segment, and commercial traction in PFAS, along with a healthy pipeline of domestic and international opportunities, we believe Perma-Fix is well positioned to deliver improved financial results in the second half of '25 and build long-term momentum heading into 26.

隨著治療量的不斷增長、服務部門活動的重新開展、PFAS 的商業吸引力以及國內外機遇的健康管道，我們相信 Perma-Fix 完全有能力在 25 年下半年實現更好的財務業績，並在 26 年建立長期發展勢頭。

With that, I'll now turn over the call to Ben Naccarato to walk through our financial results in more detail.

現在，我將把電話轉給 Ben Naccarato，讓他更詳細地介紹我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Mark. I'll start with the revenue. Our total revenue from our continuing operations for the second quarter was $14.6 million compared to last year's second quarter of $14 million. That's an increase of $600,000 or 4.3%. Our revenue in the treatment segment increased by $3.1 million over the prior year, or 36.6% as the waste volumes increased, as did our average price of waste, which is usually impacted by waste mix.

謝謝你，馬克。我先從收入開始。我們第二季持續經營業務的總收入為 1,460 萬美元，而去年第二季為 1,400 萬美元。這增加了 60 萬美元，即 4.3%。由於廢棄物量的增加，我們在處理部門的收入比前一年增加了 310 萬美元，即 36.6%，而廢棄物的平均價格也增加了，這通常受廢棄物組合的影響。

Our treatment segment began the quarter with a backlog of $10 million and had waste receipts and related revenues in excess of $14 million during the quarter, which contributed to the improved revenue and the strong backlog entering the third quarter. The increase in revenue was offset by a decrease in revenue at our services segment of $2.5 million, project delays and completion of large projects in the prior year were the main drivers of this shortfall. Moving to gross profit for the quarter.

我們的處理部門本季初的積壓訂單為 1,000 萬美元，本季的廢棄物收據和相關收入超過 1,400 萬美元，這有助於提高收入並增加第三季的積壓訂單量。收入的成長被我們服務部門收入的減少 250 萬美元所抵消，專案延遲和上一年大型專案的完成是造成這一短缺的主要原因。轉向本季的毛利。

Our gross profit was $1.5 million compared to a negative $1.3 million in Q2 of '24. That's an improvement of $2.8 million. The revenue increase and lower variable costs of the waste treated had a positive impact on gross profit of totaling about $3.4 million, which was partially offset by increased fixed costs at the plants of $683,000. The increased fixed costs were primarily labor related due to increases in waste receipts.

我們的毛利為 150 萬美元，而 24 年第二季為負 130 萬美元。這意味著增加了 280 萬美元。收入增加和廢物處理產生的變動成本降低對毛利產生了積極影響，總計約 340 萬美元，但工廠固定成本增加 683,000 美元，部分抵消了這一影響。固定成本的增加主要與勞動力有關，因為廢物收入增加。

In the service segment, gross profit was relatively flat, with prior year increasing by 90,000 as the impact of lower variable costs and fixed expenses was offset by the impact on gross profit of lower revenue. The lower variable costs were the result of improved profitability of the projects performed this year while our lower fixed costs were the result of reductions to our indirect labor. Turning to SG&A.

在服務領域，毛利相對持平，與上年相比增加了 90,000，因為較低的變動成本和固定費用的影響被較低的收入對毛利的影響所抵消。較低的變動成本是由於今年所執行專案的獲利能力提高，而較低的固定成本是由於間接勞動力的減少。談到銷售、一般及行政費用 (SG&A)。

Our SG&A cost for the quarter were $4.1 million compared to prior year total of $3.5 million. The increase is evenly split between marketing and admin. Our marketing expenses were higher from higher business development expenses related to PFAS and project bidding. In addition, certain personnel formally focused on operations are being deployed in a business development role supporting PFAS, (inaudible), and our international opportunities. On the admin side, the addition of our COO and the related travel and benefits with that position had the greatest impact on our increased costs.

本季我們的銷售、一般及行政費用為 410 萬美元，去年同期為 350 萬美元。行銷和行政費用的成長均等地分配。我們的行銷費用較高，因為與 PFAS 和專案投標相關的業務發展費用增加。此外，某些先前專注於營運的人員被部署到業務開發崗位，以支援 PFAS、（聽不清楚）和我們的國際機會。在行政方面，營運長的加入以及該職位相關的旅行和福利對我們的成本增加影響最大。

Net loss for the quarter was $2.7 million as compared to prior year's net loss of $4 million. Our total basic and diluted earnings per share or loss per share for the quarter was $0.15 compared to a loss per share of $0.27 in the prior year. EBITDA from continuing ops for the quarter was as defined in this morning's press release was a negative $2.3 million compared to negative EBITDA of $4.6 million last year. Turning to some balance sheet items.

本季淨虧損為 270 萬美元，而去年同期淨虧損為 400 萬美元。本季我們的每股基本收益和稀釋每股收益或每股虧損總額為 0.15 美元，而去年同期的每股虧損為 0.27 美元。根據今天上午的新聞稿的定義，本季持續經營的 EBITDA 為負 230 萬美元，而去年的 EBITDA 為負 460 萬美元。轉向一些資產負債表項目。

Our cash on the balance sheet at quarter end was $22.6 million. Our waste backlog at the end of June was $13.2 million, which is up from $7.9 million at the end of last year and higher than June 30, a year ago where it was $8.7 million at the time. Our total debt for the quarter -- at quarter end is $2 million excluding debt issuance costs, most of which is owed to our primary lender, PNC Bank.

我們季末資產負債表上的現金為 2,260 萬美元。截至 6 月底，我們的廢棄物積壓金額為 1,320 萬美元，高於去年年底的 790 萬美元，也高於去年 6 月 30 日的 870 萬美元。我們本季的總債務——截至季度末為 200 萬美元（不包括債務發行成本），其中大部分是欠我們的主要貸方 PNC 銀行的。

Finally, I'll summarize our cash flow for '25. Our cash used by continuing operations is $3.8 million. Cash used by discontinued operations is $222,000. Cash used for investing in continuing operations was $1.5 million most of which relates to capital spending and the remainder on permits and other investments.

最後，我將總結我們 25 年的現金流。我們持續經營所用的現金為 380 萬美元。終止經營所用的現金為 222,000 美元。用於投資持續經營的現金為 150 萬美元，其中大部分與資本支出有關，其餘用於許可證和其他投資。

Our cash used for investing for (inaudible) is $16,000. Cash used for -- in financing was $626,000 of which approximately $313,000 relates to monthly payments on the term and capital loans, finance leases of $148,000, and payments of $194,000 related to our public offering completed in December of 2024, and this is offset by a small increase in option expenses of $49,000.

我們用於投資的現金（聽不清楚）為 16,000 美元。用於融資的現金為 626,000 美元，其中約 313,000 美元與定期和資本貸款的每月付款、148,000 美元的融資租賃以及與我們 2024 年 12 月完成的公開發行相關的 194,000 美元的付款有關，這被 49,000 美元的期權增加。

With that, I will now turn the call over to the operator for questions.

說完這些，我現在將電話轉給接線生來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Aaron Spychalla, Craig Hallum.

亞倫·斯皮查拉、克雷格·哈勒姆。

Yes. Good morning, Mark and Ben. Thanks for for taking the questions.

是的。早上好，馬克和班。感謝您回答這些問題。

First on the treatment side of things, you kind of talked about some challenges, improvements that have been made. Can you just give a little bit more detail on there and maybe how you think about the margin pick up in the back half and just just maybe how you're thinking about overall kind of treatments in the back half of the year?

首先，在治療方面，您談到了一些挑戰和已經取得的進步。您能否提供更詳細的信息，也許您認為下半年的利潤率會上升，也許您認為下半年的整體治療情況如何？

Yes. Aaron, I appreciate that question. We started receiving, I think I mentioned this the last quarter call, that we started receiving a sizable waste stream from the Hanford operations side of the house, not the the tank closure, but the -- actually comes through tank closure, but it's more associated with operations of the tank farms themselves. And this waste stream includes some solidification process that had to occur, and we're having a difficult time with the process to because it was labor intensive.

是的。亞倫，我很感謝這個問題。我們開始收到，我想我在上個季度的電話中提到過，我們開始從漢福德運營側收到大量的廢物流，不是來自油罐封閉，而是 - 實際上是通過油罐封閉產生的，但它更多地與油庫本身的運營有關。這種廢物流包括一些必須發生的固化過程，我們在過程中遇到了困難，因為它是勞動密集的。

It was going very slow and we implemented some equipment and did the training and got the permit. The permit's aligned with it as well as in alignment with the the folks that will take the waste from us on the Hanford site to make sure that everything was worked properly and the performance of the treatment was adequate. So that took several months. We didn't expect it to take.

進展非常緩慢，我們安裝了一些設備，進行了培訓並獲得了許可。該許可證與其相一致，也與漢福德工廠負責處理我們廢物的人員一致，以確保一切工作正常進行，處理效果充分。所以這花了幾個月的時間。我們沒想到它會成功。

If you remember last quarter, we talked about the fact that we had to hire a lot of people and it took a while to get them training in place, so that will happen and then we had problems with production. But that has all been resolved in about halfway through the quarter, and we really started getting our feet under us in June and meeting our performance goals. So now that waste stream, it should be sustainable through '27 at minimum. And it's really a core competency for the type of work we do with our Northwest plant.

如果你還記得上個季度，我們談到我們必須僱用很多人，而且需要一段時間才能對他們進行培訓，所以這種情況會發生，然後我們在生產方面遇到了問題。但這一切都在本季度中期得到了解決，我們在 6 月真正開始站穩腳跟並實現了我們的業績目標。因此，現在廢物流至少應該可以持續到 27 年。這確實是我們西北工廠所做工作的核心競爭力。

All the other waste streams are going well. And the Northwest facility is becoming a real anchor for us as expected in support of upcoming projects at Hanford as well, but also many other clients around the country and internationally as we continue to expand the operations there.

所有其他廢棄物處理均進展順利。正如預期的那樣，西北工廠正在成為我們真正的支柱，不僅支持漢福德即將開展的項目，而且隨著我們繼續擴大在那裡的業務，它也為全國和國際上的許多其他客戶提供支持。

Alright, thanks for the color there. And then, on Hanford I saw the wording in the release on as late as October 15. Maybe just talk about it sounds like confidence that that could start up before then and you alluded to it, but just preparations being made at the Northwest facility to handle those volumes as they start up.

好的，謝謝你的顏色。然後，我在 10 月 15 日晚些時候看到了漢福德新聞稿中的措辭。也許只是談論它聽起來像是有信心在那之前啟動，並且你提到了這一點，但只是西北工廠正在為啟動時處理這些數量做準備。

Yes. The delay was somewhat unexpected to us because it was so close to the anticipated start date, but it's not really unexpected that they would have a delay in these types of things. But we heard that there was a number of items they're working through that's been that have been publicized by the independent groups that make sure they're ready and that they were finding nitrogen oxide. And some of the off gas systems that they had to deal with and address those concerns, and we've been told in a formally that that's what they're working on right now.

是的。由於距離預計的開始日期非常接近，因此這種延遲對我們來說有些出乎意料，但這種事情的延遲並不出乎意料。但我們聽說，他們正在研究的一系列項目已經由獨立團體公佈，以確保他們已經做好準備，並且他們發現了氮氧化物。他們必須處理一些廢氣系統並解決這些問題，我們正式獲悉，這就是他們目前正在處理的問題。

It shouldn't be the entire period, they give themselves some buffer. That's largely speculation, they're not really discussing what their timeline really is. But I know he is not going to want to do multiple delays, so we're pretty confident that they should be done well within that period, and then get rolling.

不應該是整個時期，他們給自己一些緩衝。這在很大程度上只是猜測，他們並沒有真正討論他們的時間表到底是什麼。但我知道他不會想多次拖延，所以我們非常有信心他們應該在那段時間內做好，然後開始行動。

Once they get rolling, then they'll enter the hot commissioning period. That's where they introduce actual tank waste to the plant, and that they'll do about 1 dozen to 2 dozen canisters. Then they'll test those canisters for performance, making sure it meets the standards they designed the building facility to do, and test all the systems, make sure they're working properly, and then they'll enter into an operational phase after that.

一旦開始運轉，他們就會進入熱調試期。他們將實際的罐內廢物引入工廠，並將處理大約 12 到 24 個罐子。然後，他們會測試這些罐的性能，確保其符合他們設計的建築設施的標準，並測試所有系統，確保它們正常工作，然後他們將進入運行階段。

So the operational phase would most likely be sometime in Q4. I'm not sure when or how long it will take between the two phases, but it seems like they're on track to be in operational phase before the end of the calendar year and get rolling.

因此，營運階段很可能在第四季的某個時候。我不確定這兩個階段之間需要多長時間，但看起來它們有望在今年年底之前進入營運階段並開始運作。

Did that address your question, Aaron? I'm not sure if I hit all the points.

這回答了你的問題嗎，亞倫？我不確定我是否達到了所有的要點。

Yes. No, it does. I mean, maybe just preparations at hand for to be able to handle everything you feel comfortable there, investments that you've made and things like that.

是的。不，確實如此。我的意思是，也許只是提前做好準備，以便能夠處理好你在那裡感到舒適的一切，你所做的投資等等。

Yes. We've completed our preliminary design of the systems we need to have in place for receipt of that waste, so we're ready to go. We will continue to make investments -- capital investments as the DFL gets rolling into larger quantities. In other words, we'll duplicate the systems we've got and add staff accordingly, but we're ready to go now to at least the operational period.

是的。我們已經完成了接收廢棄物所需系統的初步設計，因此我們已準備好開始。隨著 DFL 規模不斷擴大，我們將繼續進行投資—資本投資。換句話說，我們將複製現有的系統並相應地增加員工，但現在我們已準備好至少進入營運期。

And it's still difficult for DUE to really nail down the different types of waste we're going to be getting, they provided estimates along the way on the total quantities that they're expecting, but there's about a dozen different waste streams, and we're not sure how much of each one that we'll be receiving. So we really got to see how things go during commissioning and early startup to really know how we need to expand. So we don't over expand to support the full operation.

DUE 仍然很難真正確定我們將要收到的不同類型的廢物，他們提供了預計的總量估計，但大約有十幾種不同的廢物流，我們不確定每種廢物流將收到多少。因此，我們確實需要觀察調試和早期啟動期間的情況，才能真正了解我們需要如何擴展。因此我們不會過度擴張來支持全面運作。

Okay, that makes sense. And then on the services side of things, you talked a little bit about West Valley in the in the planning period, a little bit on (inaudible). Just how are you seeing that services segment here in the next couple quarters is the West Valley kind of more of an early 2026 start up in your eyes? Or maybe just some color there would be helpful.

好的，這很有道理。然後，在服務方面，你談到了規劃期間西谷的情況，（聽不清楚）。您如何看待未來幾季這裡的服務業發展？在您看來，西谷更像是 2026 年初的起步階段嗎？或者也許只是一些顏色會有幫助。

Yes. Services had a negative impact on our performance this quarter particularly. As I mentioned in the notes, there were some delays in getting into the field and some delays in procurement. Both those are largely attributable to the change in administration and a lot of retirees, a lot of retirements and uncertainty in the federal government's procurement shops. They're working through those things. I understand it's very common within the DOD as well as DOE with the changes that have been made.

是的。服務對我們本季的業績產生了負面影響。正如我在筆記中提到的那樣，進入現場和採購方面都存在一些延遲。這兩者很大程度上都歸因於政府的變動和大量退休人員，以及聯邦政府採購部門的不確定性。他們正在努力解決這些問題。我知道國防部和能源部內部做出的改變非常普遍。

The administration -- the Trump administration is pushing very hard on both these agencies to streamline procurements and make them more efficient. We're starting to see some of that already, but overall, to answer the question specifically, we see that picking up on the -- on both the service side in this quarter and next quarter, particularly in regards to several projects that are just now getting rolling and some procurements that we've just submitted bids on at the the end of Q2 and beginning of Q3.

川普政府正在大力推動這兩個機構簡化採購流程並提高效率。我們已經開始看到一些這樣的情況，但總的來說，具體回答這個問題，我們看到本季度和下個季度在服務方面都有所回升，特別是對於剛開始的幾個項目和我們剛剛在第二季度末和第三季度初提交投標的一些採購。

So West Valley is moving a little slower, a lot slower than we thought it would. We thought we'd be working by now, but the way it's -- it goes with these types of contracts, again, it's an end state contract so what that means is you put together a strategy, a very detailed strategy for the next 10 years of what you're going to get done. And then you line up your cost with that to stay within a funding level, and then the Department of the -- Department of Energy approves that.

因此，西谷的發展速度有點慢，比我們想像的要慢得多。我們原以為我們現在就可以開始工作了，但實際情況是——這些類型的合同都是最終狀態合同，這意味著你要製定一個戰略，一個非常詳細的未來 10 年要完成的任務的戰略。然後，您將成本與其對齊，以保持在資金水平之內，然後能源部批准這一點。

And we're in that strategy stage, pulling the strategy together for the next 10 years. We're intimately involved in the waste management portion of that, and then DOE has to approve that within the funding they've got. So that's where that process is now. So that finishes up here around the first of the year. And then we're anticipating to be implementing that strategy beginning in Q1. So it just depends on if there's changes to our approach or funding that's moved one way or another could impact that.

我們正處於戰略制定階段，正在製定未來 10 年的戰略。我們密切參與其中的廢棄物管理部分，然後能源部必須在其所獲得的資金範圍內批准該部分。這就是目前該流程的進展。所以，這一切在年初左右就結束了。我們預計將從第一季開始實施該策略。因此，這只取決於我們的方法是否有所改變，或者資金的轉移是否會對此產生影響。

So that's why we're hesitant to really make a real forecast on the revenue we're going to get from West Valley at this point, but we're still remain very optimistic. Our scope is very important. And one of the primary goals for the site in the next several years, so we're optimistic that we're playing a critical role in there, but it hasn't been nailed down yet overall.

所以這就是為什麼我們目前還不願意對我們從西谷獲得的收入做出真正的預測，但我們仍然非常樂觀。我們的範圍非常重要。這是該網站未來幾年的主要目標之一，因此我們樂觀地認為我們將在其中發揮關鍵作用，但總體而言尚未確定。

Alright, thanks for the color and taking the questions. I will turn it over.

好的，感謝您的提問。我會把它翻過來。

Howard Brous, Wellington Shields.

霍華德·布魯斯，惠靈頓希爾茲。

Thank you. Basically, one question. You anticipate production of (inaudible) to ramp up, and what are our associated revenue expectations from now through 2026?

謝謝。基本上，一個問題。您預期（聽不清楚）的產量會增加，從現在到 2026 年我們的相關收入預期是多少？

Good morning, Howard. They haven't really given us a lot of detail for the ramp up, but what we've been told informally in meetings and and it's part of the overall program is, again, they'll do the commissioning now. Once operations start, as I mentioned, to be in Q4, operations has been informally defined as about 40% production capacity.

早安，霍華德。他們實際上並沒有向我們提供關於產能提升的許多細節，但我們在會議上非正式地被告知，而且這是整體計劃的一部分，他們現在將進行調試。正如我所提到的，一旦營運開始，在第四季度，營運已被非正式地定義為約 40% 的生產能力。

So you remember the design capacity is a million gallons a year; and a million gallons a year, they anticipate generating 8,000 cubic meters of waste and looking at the waste streams that they're talking about here, we're estimating that to be in the $70 million to $80 million range for the 8,000 meters. So if you do the math and are running at 40% capacity in later in Q4, we could anticipate once they get to that point, in $2 million to $3 million of revenue a month.

所以你記得設計容量是每年一百萬加侖；每年一百萬加侖，他們預計會產生 8,000 立方米的廢物，看看他們在這裡談論的廢物流，我們估計 8,000 米的成本在 7,000 萬至 8,000 萬美元之間。因此，如果你計算一下，並且在第四季度後期以 40% 的產能運行，我們可以預計，一旦達到這一點，他們每月的收入將達到 200 萬至 300 萬美元。

And they'll be ramping up, as fast as they can, as safe -- as safely as they can over the next 18 months after operations begin to try to get to 70% or 80% operational capacity on the way up to full capacity. Well, so I think we're anticipating again, not knowing all the volumes of the different types of waste we'll receive. Again, just to summarize, $2 million to $3 million in revenue upon operational phase startup; and then ramp up from there over the next 18 months to '26.

他們將盡可能快速、盡可能安全地提高產能——在開始營運後的未來 18 個月內，盡可能安全地達到 70% 或 80% 的營運能力，直到達到滿載營運。好吧，所以我認為我們再次預測，不知道我們將收到的不同類型廢物的所有數量。再次總結一下，營運階段啟動時的收入為 200 萬至 300 萬美元；然後在接下來的 18 個月到 26 年內逐漸增加。

That's all I had. Thank you very much. Best of luck.

這就是我所擁有的一切。非常感謝。祝你好運。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Aaron Warwick, Breakout Investors.

Aaron Warwick，Breakout Investors。

Good morning, gentlemen.

先生們，早安。

Just a question on the Navy contract or IDIQ I should say. Could you give us an idea about the size of it and how many different entities there are that are available to bid on those and just kind of what your expectations are there?

我應該說，這只是一個關於海軍合約或 IDIQ 的問題。您能否告訴我們它的規模以及有多少不同的實體可以競標它，以及您的期望是什麼？

Sure, Aaron. I'm glad you asked that.

當然，亞倫。我很高興你問了這個問題。

It -- these IDIQs are very difficult to nail down. We have a lot of IDIQs, don't see a whole lot of action. We just submitted a very sizable job with DOE through one of their IDIQs that we -- hasn't seen action in quite a while.

這些 IDIQ 很難確定。我們有很多 IDIQ，但沒有看到太多的行動。我們剛剛透過 DOE 的一個 IDIQ 提交了一份規模很大的工作，但我們已經很久沒有看到任何進展了。

This Navy IDIQ for the (inaudible) is a very active contract. And if you do the research, if you just type in, googling it, it's been -- it runs out of funding that much use. In other words, they pump a lot of funding through this historically. And so it's $240 million, and they have 6 total awards, 3 large businesses and 3 small businesses. And we're -- again, we're a small business. And small businesses get to bid on all the large business task orders, but not vice versa. It's -- they can't bid on the small one, the business can't be on the small ones.

這份海軍 IDIQ（聽不清楚）是一份非常有效的合約。如果你做了研究，如果你只是輸入它，或者用谷歌搜尋它，它就已經——它的資金已經用完了。換句話說，他們歷史上透過這種方式投入了大量資金。所以總額是 2.4 億美元，他們總共頒發了 6 個獎項，其中 3 家是大型企業，3 家是小型企業。而且我們——再說一次，我們是一家小企業。小型企業可以競標所有大型企業的任務訂單，但反之則不行。他們無法競標小型企業，業務也無法在小型企業上開展。

So to answer your question, we already got our first task order to work on it right now to do here in a couple of weeks, and they don't give a forecasting like that. We don't know how it lines up with funding, but it's basically to do radiological remediation mostly in the California coast, initially in Southern California, San Diego area, and then also we're anticipating a number of projects in the Bay Area as well, where there's been long term radiological issues.

所以回答你的問題，我們已經得到了第一個任務訂單，現在就開始處理，幾週後就在這裡完成，他們沒有給出這樣的預測。我們不知道它如何與資金相匹配，但基本上主要在加州海岸進行放射性修復，最初是在南加州、聖地牙哥地區，然後我們也預計在長期存在放射性問題的灣區也會進行一些計畫。

So to answer your question, it is -- it's competitive. Each task is competitive. We're very comfortable the three small businesses will be competing with some of the smaller tasks. We know very well. And the type of work that is done within this contract is exactly what we -- our strongest core competencies are aligned with. We have some technologies in these areas and -- but again, it is -- they are competitive and it's really difficult to really define how much revenue we can anticipate on an annual basis.

所以回答你的問題，它是有競爭力的。每項任務都具有競爭性。我們非常放心，這三家小企業將會在一些較小的任務上競爭。我們非常清楚。這份合約中所完成的工作類型正是我們最強大的核心競爭力所對應的。我們在這些領域擁有一些技術，而且它們具有競爭力，因此很難真正確定我們每年可以預期多少收入。

Thank you, guys.

謝謝你們。

Thank you very much. Well, we appear to have reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I will now turn it back over to the management for their closing comments.

非常感謝。好吧，我們的問答環節似乎已經結束了。現在我將把會議交還給管理階層，請他們發表最後評論。

All right, thank you, Jenny.

好的，謝謝你，珍妮。

As we move into the second half of 2025, we remain focused on executing against our key strategic priorities, expanding our treatment and PFAS backlogs, driving performance improvements across all of our operations, and converting large services and federal bid opportunities. The operational investments we made earlier in the year combined with the progress we're seeing at Perma-Dix Northwest within the PFAS program and across our DOE segments and engagements, they all positioned us to to deliver strong results in the coming quarters. While timing around certain Federal procurement processes remains variable, our backlog, our field execution, and our pipeline visibility continue to improve.

隨著我們進入 2025 年下半年，我們將繼續專注於執行我們的關鍵策略重點，擴大我們的治療和 PFAS 積壓，推動我們所有營運的績效改進，並轉化大型服務和聯邦投標機會。我們在今年稍早進行的營運投資，加上我們在 Perma-Dix Northwest 在 PFAS 計劃以及我們在 DOE 部門和合作中看到的進展，都使我們在未來幾個季度取得強勁業績。雖然某些聯邦採購流程的時間表仍然存在變化，但我們的積壓訂單、現場執行情況和管道可見度仍在不斷改善。

So in summary, we remain confident in our ability to deliver a stronger financial performance in the back half of the year, supported by the progress we've already achieved. We appreciate your continued support and look forward to updating you again next quarter on our progress. Thank you.

總而言之，憑藉我們已經取得的進展，我們仍然有信心在下半年取得更強勁的財務表現。我們感謝您一直以來的支持，並期待下個季度再次向您通報我們的進展。謝謝。

Thank you very much. This does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.

非常感謝。今天的會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開電話線並享受美好的一天。我們感謝您的參與。