Pebblebrook Hotel Trust (PEB) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Pebblebrook Hotel Trust Fourth Quarter and Year-End 2022 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants are on a listen-only mode. A brief question-and-answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press *0 on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Raymond Martz, Chief Financial Officer. Thank you. Please go ahead.

您好，歡迎來到 Pebblebrook Hotel Trust 第四季度和 2022 年底財報電話會議。此時，所有參與者都處於只聽模式。正式介紹後將進行簡短的問答環節。如果有人在會議期間需要接線員幫助，請按電話鍵盤上的 *0。提醒一下，這次會議正在錄製中。現在，我很高興向您介紹主持人，首席財務官雷蒙德·馬茨 (Raymond Martz)。謝謝。請繼續。

Thank you, Donna, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to our fourth quarter 2022 earnings call and webcast. Joining me today is Jon Bortz, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. But before we start, a reminder that many of our comments today are considered forward-looking statements under federal securities laws. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties as described in our SEC filings. Future results could differ materially from those implied by our comments. Forward-looking statements that we make are only effective as of today, February 22, 2023, and we undertake no duty to update them later. We'll discuss our non-GAAP financial measures during today's call, and we provide reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures on our website at pebblebrookhotels.com.

謝謝你，唐娜，大家早上好。歡迎來到我們的 2022 年第四季度財報電話會議和網絡廣播。今天加入我的是我們的董事長兼首席執行官 Jon Bortz。但在我們開始之前，請提醒我們，根據聯邦證券法，我們今天的許多評論都被視為前瞻性陳述。正如我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所述，這些聲明受到眾多風險和不確定性的影響。未來的結果可能與我們的評論所暗示的結果大不相同。我們所做的前瞻性陳述僅在今天，即 2023 年 2 月 22 日生效，我們不承擔以後更新這些陳述的義務。我們將在今天的電話會議上討論我們的非 GAAP 財務措施，我們會在我們的網站 pebblebrookhotels.com 上提供這些非 GAAP 財務措施的調節。

Okay. In 2022, we made significant progress on our road to a full recovery. We want to thank our hotel teams and operating partners for their hard work, sacrifices and creativity. Our portfolio continues to benefit from their tremendous effort as we continue on the path of recovery and growth following the pandemic.

好的。 2022 年，我們在全面復甦的道路上取得了重大進展。我們要感謝我們的酒店團隊和運營合作夥伴的辛勤工作、犧牲和創造力。隨著我們在大流行之後繼續走上復甦和增長的道路，我們的投資組合繼續受益於他們的巨大努力。

Our adjusted EBITDA finished at $356.7 million compared with $99.8 million in 2021, a very significant progress from a year ago. And while we still have much work to do, we believe we have considerable upside ahead. Adjusted FFO per share ended 2022 at $1.69, a substantial improvement from 2021 at a negative $0.23 per share.

我們調整後的 EBITDA 為 3.567 億美元，而 2021 年為 9980 萬美元，與一年前相比取得了非常顯著的進步。雖然我們還有很多工作要做，但我們相信我們還有很大的上升空間。 2022 年調整後每股 FFO 為 1.69 美元，較 2021 年每股負 0.23 美元有了顯著改善。

On the investment side, we were very active. We acquired 2 leisure-focused resorts for $330 million and sold 4 urban hotels for $261 million. Since 2020, we've acquired 6 leisure-focused resorts for over $820 million while selling 11 hotels in slower to recover urban markets for a total of $957 million. Between acquisitions and dispositions, since 2020 we've recycled almost 30% of our portfolio, representing a dramatic transformation of our company.

在投資方面，我們非常積極。我們以 3.3 億美元的價格收購了 2 個以休閒為主的度假村，並以 2.61 億美元的價格出售了 4 個城市酒店。自 2020 年以來，我們以超過 8.2 億美元的價格收購了 6 個以休閒為主的度假村，同時以總計 9.57 億美元的價格出售了 11 家復甦較慢的城市市場的酒店。在收購和處置之間，自 2020 年以來，我們回收了近 30% 的產品組合，這代表了我們公司的巨大轉型。

As a result of these investments and divestitures, we have increased our market segmentation from leisure, both group and transient, to roughly 50%, and we are extremely excited about the many operating, remerchandising and redevelopment opportunities at our recent resort acquisitions, some of which are already underway, which Jon will discuss later. We expect that these major projects will generate outsized growth over the next several years.

由於這些投資和資產剝離，我們已經將我們的市場細分從團體和短暫的休閒活動增加到大約 50%，我們對我們最近的度假村收購中的許多運營、再銷售和再開發機會感到非常興奮，其中一些這些已經在進行中，Jon 將在稍後討論。我們預計這些重大項目將在未來幾年產生超額增長。

For the fourth quarter, same property total revenues of $310.6 million or 94.1% recovered to 2019, and this was driven by continued solid demand at our resorts and further improvement in group and transient business travel. And these results exclude LaPlaya Beach Resort due to its closure from Hurricane Ian, which negatively impacted our same-property RevPAR growth by approximately 150 basis points and an estimated $16 million in property revenues and $12 million of same-property EBITDA.

第四季度，同一物業的總收入為 3.106 億美元或 94.1%，恢復至 2019 年，這是由於我們度假村的持續強勁需求以及團體和短暫商務旅行的進一步改善所推動的。這些結果不包括因颶風伊恩而關閉的 LaPlaya Beach Resort，這對我們的同財產 RevPAR 增長產生了約 150 個基點的負面影響，估計財產收入為 1600 萬美元，同財產 EBITDA 為 1200 萬美元。

In terms of markets, we continue to experience solid demand in Los Angeles, San Diego and Boston. And encouragingly, we are seeing the demand recover accelerate in our slower to recover markets, including San Francisco, Chicago and Washington, D.C.

在市場方面，我們繼續在洛杉磯、聖地亞哥和波士頓經歷強勁的需求。令人鼓舞的是，我們看到舊金山、芝加哥和華盛頓特區等複蘇較慢的市場的需求正在加速復蘇。

Shifting to Q1 2023, demand and operating trends have generally been in line with expectations, excluding the impact of the severe winter storms we've experienced to date in the first quarter. The significant rainfall in Northern and Southern California disrupted leisure travel to these markets and then cold temperatures in Boston disrupted business travel and caused some water damage resulting in an estimated $1.1 million in additional operating and capital expenditures, which also includes estimated costs to remediate and cleanup following these multiple storms.

轉到 2023 年第一季度，需求和運營趨勢總體上符合預期，不包括我們在第一季度迄今為止經歷的嚴重冬季風暴的影響。北加州和南加州的大量降雨擾亂了前往這些市場的休閒旅行，隨後波士頓的低溫擾亂了商務旅行並造成了一些水災，導致估計 110 萬美元的額外運營和資本支出，其中還包括修復和清理的估計成本在這些多重風暴之後。

On the demand side, despite the numerous layoffs announced across many industries, we have yet to experience any notable changes in demand, booking activity or increase in cancellations. Leisure demand remains healthy despite concerns about the consumer becoming more cautious. Except for some softer demand in Key West, which was robust and relatively price insensitive in 2021 when Florida was one of the few states to fully open for business. Our leisure-oriented demand is maintaining its strength.

在需求方面，儘管許多行業宣布大量裁員，但我們尚未在需求、預訂活動或取消增加方面經歷任何顯著變化。儘管擔心消費者變得更加謹慎，但休閒需求依然健康。除了基韋斯特的一些疲軟需求外，該需求在 2021 年強勁且對價格相對不敏感，當時佛羅里達是少數幾個完全開放商業的州之一。我們以休閒為導向的需求保持強勁。

Demand started the year on encouraging note in San Francisco with the JPMorgan Healthcare Conference in early January. Compared with 2020, the last time JPMorgan was held in-person, demand at our hotels was at 76.8% of 2020 levels, with ADR up 9.7% and overall revenues at approximately 84% of the 2020 conference levels. This is a very positive start to the year for San Francisco, which we expect will continue with a much-improved convention calendar this year.

1 月初在舊金山舉行的摩根大通醫療保健會議上，需求以令人鼓舞的基調開始了這一年。與上一次摩根大通親自舉辦的 2020 年相比，我們酒店的需求為 2020 年水平的 76.8%，ADR 增長 9.7%，總收入約為 2020 年會議水平的 84%。對於舊金山來說，這是今年的一個非常積極的開端，我們預計今年的會議日曆將得到很大改善。

Overall for the company, January same-property RevPAR was up a very strong 49%, benefiting from easy comparisons to the Omicron impact in January last year. We anticipate same-property RevPAR for Q1 to be 15% to 18% higher than Q1 last year. Not surprisingly, the quarter's RevPAR growth was slowed substantially from January's growth rate versus last year as Omicron eased as the quarter progressed.

總體而言，對於公司而言，1 月份同一酒店的 RevPAR 增長了 49%，這得益於與去年 1 月份 Omicron 影響的輕鬆比較。我們預計第一季度的同物業 RevPAR 將比去年第一季度高出 15% 至 18%。毫不奇怪，由於 Omicron 隨著季度的進展而放緩，本季度的 RevPAR 增長與 1 月份的增長率相比去年大幅放緩。

Our Q1 operating results would be negatively impacted from the closure of LaPlaya for repair and remediation work due to Hurricane Ian, which will reduce our Q1 hotel revenues by an estimated $25 million and same property EBITDA by approximately $14 million. In addition, we will experience displacement due to several major transformational projects underway. This is expected to negatively impact Q1 RevPAR by approximately 225 to 300 basis points and overall same-property EBITDA by $4.5 million to $6.5 million. These include the comprehensive redevelopments at Hilton Gaslamp San Diego, Solamar as it converts to a Margaritaville in downtown San Diego, Estancia La Jolla, Jekyll Island Resort, and Viceroy Santa Monica. Combined, the disruption that will apply from Hurricane Ian and our redevelopments, will negatively impact Q1 same-property EBITDA by approximately $18.5 million to $20.5 million.

我們第一季度的經營業績將受到因颶風伊恩而關閉 LaPlaya 進行維修和補救工作的負面影響，這將使我們第一季度的酒店收入減少約 2500 萬美元，同一物業的 EBITDA 減少約 1400 萬美元。此外，由於幾個正在進行的重大轉型項目，我們將經歷流離失所。預計這將對第一季度的 RevPAR 產生約 225 至 300 個基點的負面影響，並對同一物業的整體 EBITDA 產生 450 萬至 650 萬美元的負面影響。其中包括聖地亞哥希爾頓 Gaslamp 的全面重建、聖地亞哥市中心 Solamar 轉變為 Margaritaville、Estancia La Jolla、Jekyll Island Resort 和 Viceroy Santa Monica。綜合起來，伊恩颶風和我們的重建項目將造成的破壞將對第一季度同一物業的 EBITDA 產生約 1,850 萬至 2,050 萬美元的負面影響。

Shifting to our capital improvement program, for 2023 we are targeting to invest $145 million to $155 million into our portfolio, including several major redevelopments that we're very excited about and we expect will generate healthy returns on our investment. Jon will discuss this year's strategic redevelopment projects and overall programs in more detail later in our remarks.

轉向我們的資本改善計劃，到 2023 年，我們的目標是向我們的投資組合投資 1.45 億至 1.55 億美元，包括幾項我們非常興奮的重大重建項目，我們預計這些項目將產生可觀的投資回報。喬恩將在稍後的評論中更詳細地討論今年的戰略重建項目和總體計劃。

Also, as we detailed in last night's press release, we have made substantial progress in repairing and restoring LaPlaya. We reopened the property's Bay Tower and expect to partially open the Gulf Tower shortly. The Gulf Tower houses the lobby, restaurant, bar and club areas -- so it's a significant component of the resort. We'll also open with 1 of the 3 pools in a temporarily relocated spa and fitness center. The Beach has been cleaned and reopened and will be providing full beach services to our resort and club guests. Our beach house, however, is still undergoing restoration work, which we expect to be substantially complete in the fourth quarter. We have received $25 million so far from our insurance providers to complete the necessary repair and remediation work. We expect additional proceeds from our insurers for the work needed to fully restore this fantastic resort shortly. Upon completion, it will be better than ever, and we expect it will be quickly returned to its pre-hurricane performance.

此外，正如我們在昨晚的新聞稿中詳述的那樣，我們在修復和恢復 LaPlaya 方面取得了實質性進展。我們重新開放了該物業的 Bay Tower，並預計不久將部分開放 Gulf Tower。海灣塔設有大堂、餐廳、酒吧和俱樂部區——因此它是度假村的重要組成部分。我們還將在臨時搬遷的水療中心和健身中心開設 3 個泳池中的 1 個。海灘已經清理乾淨並重新開放，將為我們的度假村和俱樂部客人提供全套海灘服務。然而，我們的海濱別墅仍在進行修復工作，我們預計該工作將在第四季度基本完成。到目前為止，我們已經從我們的保險公司那裡收到了 2500 萬美元，用於完成必要的維修和補救工作。我們希望我們的保險公司能為在短期內完全恢復這個夢幻般的度假村所需的工作提供額外收益。完工後，它會比以往任何時候都好，我們預計它會很快恢復到颶風前的性能。

We're also expecting the first preliminary installment of business interruption proceeds. In this case, $7.2 million for lost business during the fourth quarter of 2022, which is net of our $2 million PI deductible. This has been incorporated into our Q1 outlook and will hit other income and benefit adjusted EBITDA and adjusted FFO. We expect to receive additional BI proceeds for Q4 2022 and 2023 later in the year or by the time we reach a final settlement, and we'll update you quarterly as we progress in this area.

我們還期待第一筆業務中斷收益的初步分期付款。在這種情況下，2022 年第四季度的業務損失為 720 萬美元，扣除了我們 200 萬美元的 PI 免賠額。這已納入我們的第一季度展望，並將影響其他收入和收益調整後的 EBITDA 和調整後的 FFO。我們預計將在今年晚些時候或在我們達成最終結算時收到 2022 年第四季度和 2023 年的額外 BI 收益，隨著我們在這方面的進展，我們將每季度向您更新一次。

Turning to our balance sheet and other capital uses, since the start of the fourth quarter of 2022, we have utilized proceeds from prior dispositions to repurchase 5.5 million common shares or just over 4% of our outstanding shares at a weighted average share price of $15.12, a roughly 51% discount to the midpoint of our recently updated NAV. In addition, we repurchased 1 million shares of our Series H preferred equity at a 36% discount to par or $16 per share compared with the $25 per share par value. We also used disposition proceeds to pay down debt last year.

談到我們的資產負債表和其他資本用途，自 2022 年第四季度開始以來，我們已經利用先前處置的收益以 15.12 美元的加權平均股價回購了 550 萬股普通股或略高於我們已發行股票的 4% ，比我們最近更新的資產淨值的中點低約 51%。此外，我們以每股面值 25 美元的面值折讓 36% 或每股 16 美元的價格回購了 100 萬股 H 系列優先股。我們還使用處置收益來償還去年的債務。

Our Board has authorized an additional $150 million common share repurchase program, which combined with the remaining unused portion of our prior authorization, implies we have $224 million available for common share repurchases. The Board also approved a $100 million preferred share repurchase program.

我們的董事會已批准額外的 1.5 億美元普通股回購計劃，加上我們先前授權的剩餘未使用部分，意味著我們有 2.24 億美元可用於普通股回購。董事會還批准了一項 1 億美元的優先股回購計劃。

As we sell additional properties, we will evaluate how to best utilize our proceeds, including reducing debt and/or additional share repurchases depending on our outlook on the economy and how our performance progresses. If we do utilize some portion of the proceeds for repurchasing our stock, which we believe is currently trading at an approximate 50% discount to net asset value, reduced to only -- while reducing our debt to no worse than a leverage-neutral basis. And we have been comfortable taking advantage of the public to private valuation arbitrage for several reasons. First, our net debt is just 43% of the net book value of our assets, which we believe is very reasonable. Assuming the $750 million of convertible notes, which comprises about 1/3 of our total debt, are converted to equity before their maturity in late 2026, this will drop to 29% of debt to net book value.

當我們出售額外的房產時，我們將評估如何最好地利用我們的收益，包括根據我們對經濟的展望和我們的業績進展情況減少債務和/或額外的股票回購。如果我們確實將部分收益用於回購我們的股票，我們認為目前的交易價格比資產淨值低約 50%，將減少到僅——同時將我們的債務減少到不低於槓桿中性的水平。出於多種原因，我們一直樂於利用公私估值套利。首先，我們的淨債務僅為我們資產賬面淨值的43%，我們認為這是非常合理的。假設占我們總債務約 1/3 的 7.5 億美元可轉換票據在 2026 年底到期前轉換為股權，這將降至債務與賬面淨值之比的 29%。

Second, our net debt to our estimated NAV is also a reasonable 33%. And third, most of our debt, over 90% in fact, is unsecured bank debt or notes, largely held by our bank group with whom we've had relationships for many years and several decades for some of them. These relationships go well beyond just a lender/borrower relationship. Whether it's investment banking, substantial cash deposits, credit card processing and many other services, we are a very attractive client to our banking partners. And as we've seen during the depth of the pandemic, relationships do matter. We are one of only a handful of hotel REITs that did not have to secure our debt during the pandemic. This highlights the confidence and trust our banks have in us. In addition, only $220 million, or less than 10% of our debt, is secured property-level debt, of which only $162 million will mature before 2028. That is very manageable.

其次，我們的淨債務占我們估計的資產淨值的比例也是合理的 33%。第三，我們的大部分債務，事實上超過 90%，是無擔保的銀行債務或票據，主要由我們的銀行集團持有，我們與這些銀行集團建立了多年關係，其中一些已經建立了幾十年。這些關係遠遠超出了貸款人/借款人的關係。無論是投資銀行、大量現金存款、信用卡處理和許多其他服務，我們都是我們銀行合作夥伴非常有吸引力的客戶。正如我們在大流行最嚴重的時候所看到的那樣，關係確實很重要。我們是為數不多的在大流行期間無需為我們的債務提供擔保的酒店房地產投資信託基金之一。這凸顯了我們的銀行對我們的信心和信任。此外，只有 2.2 億美元（不到我們債務的 10%）是有擔保的財產級債務，其中只有 1.62 億美元將在 2028 年之前到期。這是非常易於管理的。

Finally, our existing liquidity is very substantial. We have more available than we did before the pandemic. Our $650 million unsecured credit facility, which is largely undrawn, provides flexibility while reducing any refinancing risk. And our average debt cost is currently just 3.5%, perhaps the lowest in our industry, and this of course enhances our cash flow and our fixed charge ratio, which reduces risk. In addition, 75% of our debt is fixed through the end of 2023 and 63% is fixed to the end of 2024. And we used a very attractive window in the market in January to complete $400 million of swaps for 2 to 3 years to effectively extend swaps that expire this year. The cost to service our debt is very predictable and manageable even if interest rates surprise to the upside. And on that positive note, I'd like to turn the call over to Jon. Jon?

最後，我們現有的流動性非常充裕。我們有比大流行之前更多的可用資源。我們的 6.5 億美元無擔保信貸額度（大部分未動用）提供了靈活性，同時降低了任何再融資風險。我們的平均債務成本目前僅為 3.5%，可能是我們行業中最低的，這當然會提高我們的現金流和固定費用比率，從而降低風險。此外，我們 75% 的債務固定到 2023 年底，63% 固定到 2024 年底。我們在 1 月份利用市場上一個非常有吸引力的窗口完成了 4 億美元的 2 到 3 年掉期有效延長今年到期的互換。即使利率意外上升，償還債務的成本也是非常可預測和可控的。在積極的方面，我想把電話轉給喬恩。喬恩？

Thanks, Ray. I'm going to focus my comments on 2 important topics. First, our setup for 2023 and what we're seeing in the market. And second, the EBITDA bridge we laid out in our investor presentation, where we are, where we're going and how we're going to get there. It is far easier to predict long-term value creation than it is to forecast short-term performance, especially in highly uncertain times like today.

謝謝，雷。我將把我的評論集中在 2 個重要主題上。首先，我們對 2023 年的設置以及我們在市場上看到的情況。其次，我們在投資者介紹中列出的 EBITDA 橋樑，我們在哪裡，我們要去哪里以及我們將如何到達那裡。預測長期價值創造比預測短期表現要容易得多，尤其是在像今天這樣高度不確定的時期。

As Ray indicated, we've not yet seen any material impact from the macroeconomic slowdown that is either occurring or that many are forecasting. Group, business transient, and international inbound travel all continue to recover, and leisure travel remains very healthy. But we're not so naive to think that we won't see an impact or that we're suddenly no longer a cyclical industry. And we are humble and recognize we've never been through a pandemic and recovery before, let alone one where the Fed is working overtime to slow down the economy in order to bring inflation down to its target.

正如 Ray 指出的那樣，我們尚未看到宏觀經濟放緩對正在發生的或許多人正在預測的任何實質性影響。團體遊、商務短暫遊、國際入境游都在持續復甦，休閒遊依然非常健康。但我們不會天真地認為我們不會看到影響，或者我們突然不再是周期性行業。我們很謙虛，並認識到我們以前從未經歷過大流行和復蘇，更不用說美聯儲加班加點地放慢經濟以將通貨膨脹率降至目標的情況了。

It's extremely difficult to forecast how these conflicting waves will impact each other as we move forward in 2023. All we can do is plan for different scenarios and monitor all of the macro and micro indicators very closely, and we'll let you know when we see the trends changing.

隨著我們在 2023 年向前邁進，很難預測這些相互衝突的浪潮將如何相互影響。我們所能做的就是針對不同的情況進行規劃，並非常密切地監控所有宏觀和微觀指標，我們會在我們發佈時通知您看到趨勢變化。

In the meantime, we expect our first quarter to significantly improve over an Omicron-impacted Q1 2022. As Ray said, we saw healthy year-over-year RevPAR and total revenue growth in January, though it was negatively impacted by unusual weather on both coasts early in the year. February continues to see improvement over 2022, though we had a nice benefit from the Super Bowl in Los Angeles last year. As L.A. is one of our largest markets, it does represent a year-over-year headwind for the month, yet we're seeing significant continuing improvement in L.A., which is definitely mitigating a significant portion of that great 4-day period.

與此同時，我們預計我們的第一季度將比受 Omicron 影響的 2022 年第一季度有顯著改善。正如 Ray 所說，我們看到 1 月份的 RevPAR 和總收入同比健康增長，儘管它受到異常天氣的負面影響今年早些時候海岸。與 2022 年相比，2 月繼續有所改善，儘管我們從去年在洛杉磯舉行的超級碗比賽中受益匪淺。由於洛杉磯是我們最大的市場之一，它確實代表了本月的同比逆風，但我們看到洛杉磯的持續顯著改善，這無疑減輕了 4 天期間的很大一部分。

Group pace is looking good for 2023. As of the beginning of February, Q1 group room night pace was ahead of last year by 54%, with ADR pacing 5.6% up to last year for a total group revenue improvement of 62.7%. Transient is also pacing ahead of last year's first quarter by 16.2% in transient room nights, while rate is up by 1.4%. Total group and transient pace for Q1 was ahead by 27.5% in room nights, 2.1% in ADR, and 30.2% in total revenues.

集團在 2023 年的步伐看起來不錯。截至 2 月初，第一季度集團間夜步伐比去年高出 54%，ADR 比去年高出 5.6%，集團總收入提高了 62.7%。瞬態間夜量也比去年第一季度快了 16.2%，而房價上漲了 1.4%。第 1 季度的總體集團和瞬態速度在客房間夜數方面領先 27.5%，在 ADR 方面領先 2.1%，在總收入方面領先 30.2%。

While Q1 is an easy comparison, we're currently pacing ahead year-over-year in group and transient in every quarter. This is partly a reflection of the ongoing recovery in demand and partly due to greater confidence on the part of group and transient customers booking further out than they did last year.

雖然第一季度是一個簡單的比較，但我們目前在每個季度的集團和瞬態方面都在逐年領先。這部分反映了需求的持續復甦，部分原因是團體和臨時客戶比去年更有信心預訂更遠的地方。

For 2023, our group revenues are pacing ahead by 29.1%, with rate up by 7.2%. Total room revenue on the books for 2023 was stronger by 21.3%, with ADR ahead by 4.4%. Our urban ADRs are driving our rate advantage, while our resort rates are up marginally, driven by group rates that are substantially higher, while our transient rates are slightly down. We expect this will likely be the case for the year.

到 2023 年，我們的集團收入將增長 29.1%，增長率為 7.2%。 2023 年賬面客房總收入增長 21.3%，ADR 增長 4.4%。我們的城市 ADR 推動了我們的利率優勢，而我們的度假村利率在大幅上漲的團體利率的推動下略有上升，而我們的瞬態利率略有下降。我們預計今年可能會出現這種情況。

As we look at our bridge to the short to intermediate-term EBITDA upside in our portfolio, we expect our urban properties will recover to their 2019 EBITDA in total over the next couple of years, led by earlier to recover markets like San Diego, Boston and Los Angeles, followed by current recovery markets like San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Chicago, Portland and Seattle. In 2022, our resorts achieved an EBITDA level greater than the high end of our $55 million to $60 million range of improvement over 2019 EBITDA that we had been forecasting. This assumes we utilize LaPlaya's actual results for the first 3 quarters of last year and their forecast at the time the hurricane hit for the fourth quarter of last year. We expect the resorts are likely to generate total EBITDA that is roughly flat in 2023 versus 2022, again, ignoring the impact from LaPlaya being closed.

當我們著眼於我們的投資組合中短期至中期 EBITDA 上行的橋樑時，我們預計我們的城市物業將在未來幾年內恢復到 2019 年的 EBITDA 總額，其中聖地亞哥、波士頓等早期市場的複蘇將帶動和洛杉磯，其次是當前復甦的市場，如舊金山、華盛頓特區、芝加哥、波特蘭和西雅圖。 2022 年，我們的度假村實現了 EBITDA 水平，高於我們此前預測的 2019 年 EBITDA 5500 萬至 6000 萬美元改善範圍的上限。這假設我們使用 LaPlaya 去年前三個季度的實際結果以及他們在去年第四季度颶風襲擊時的預測。我們預計度假村在 2023 年產生的總 EBITDA 可能與 2022 年大致持平，同樣忽略了 LaPlaya 關閉的影響。

So, our resorts are already ahead of the bridge to a more normalized level of EBITDA upside that we provided in our investor presentation. In addition, we've already achieved the cost reductions in our property operating models detailed in the same EBITDA bridge presentation. Though from a margin perspective, we wouldn't expect higher margins until we regain a significant portion of last year's almost 19-point occupancy deficit, and as total revenues continue to recover along with that demand. And there are still more operational efficiencies available in our portfolio and the continuing efforts of Curator to bring down cost based on the growing scale of Curator and the increasing use of technology will offer further benefits in 2023 and beyond.

因此，我們的度假村已經領先於我們在投資者介紹中提供的更正常化的 EBITDA 上升水平。此外，我們已經在同一個 EBITDA 橋樑演示文稿中詳述了我們的物業運營模型的成本降低。儘管從利潤率的角度來看，我們不會期望更高的利潤率，直到我們重新獲得去年近 19 個百分點的入住率赤字的很大一部分，並且隨著總收入隨著需求的增長而繼續復甦。我們的產品組合中還有更多的運營效率可用，並且基於 Curator 規模的不斷擴大和技術使用的增加，Curator 不斷努力降低成本，這將在 2023 年及以後帶來更多好處。

That brings us to the last portion of our upside opportunity detailed in our EBITDA bridge. That's the upside from our multiyear extensive property redevelopment and transformation program, emanating from the LaSalle assets we acquired in late 2018 and the resorts we acquired in the last 2 years. We historically have had great success redeveloping, repositioning and remerchandising properties to a higher level that we believed had significantly more potential than their prior positioning. While these projects tend to take anywhere from 1 to 3 years for planning and construction, and then 3 to 4 years to ramp up RevPAR share gains and substantially higher EBITDA, they have pretty consistently delivered high single-digit to low double-digit unlevered cash-on-cash returns on our investments upon stabilization.

這將我們帶到了我們的 EBITDA 橋中詳述的上行機會的最後一部分。這是我們多年廣泛的房地產重建和改造計劃的好處，這些計劃源於我們在 2018 年底收購的 LaSalle 資產和我們在過去兩年收購的度假村。從歷史上看，我們在將物業重新開發、重新定位和重新銷售到更高水平方面取得了巨大成功，我們認為這比他們之前的定位具有更大的潛力。雖然這些項目往往需要 1 到 3 年的時間進行規劃和建設，然後需要 3 到 4 年的時間才能提高 RevPAR 份額收益並大幅提高 EBITDA，但它們一直提供高個位數到低兩位數的無槓桿現金-穩定後我們投資的現金回報。

Since the LaSalle acquisition back in late 2018 when LaSalle had completed 3 redevelopments, we have redeveloped and repositioned 13 of the acquired properties, including Mission Bay Resort in San Diego, which was a former Hilton, L'Auberge Del Mar, Viceroy Santa Monica, Le Parc, Montrose, the Chamberlain and Grafton on Sunset to Hotel Ziggy, all 4 of which are in West Hollywood, Chaminade Resort in Santa Cruz, Hotel Vitale in San Francisco, which is now 1 Hotel San Francisco, both Southernmost Resort and Marker Harborside in Key West, and Mason & Rook and The Donovan, which are now Viceroy D.C. and Hotel Zena, both in Washington, D.C.

自 2018 年底收購 LaSalle 以來，LaSalle 已完成 3 個重建項目，我們已經重新開發和重新定位了 13 個收購的物業，包括聖地亞哥的 Mission Bay Resort（前希爾頓）、L'Auberge Del Mar、Viceroy Santa Monica、 Le Parc、Montrose、Chamberlain 和 Grafton on Sunset 到 Hotel Ziggy，這 4 家都在西好萊塢，Santa Cruz 的 Chaminade Resort，舊金山的 Hotel Vitale，現在是 1 Hotel San Francisco，包括 Southernmost Resort 和 Marker Harborside在基韋斯特，Mason & Rook 和 The Donovan，它們現在是位於華盛頓特區的 Viceroy D.C. 和 Hotel Zena。

In addition to these recently completed projects, we're in the process of a dramatic reimagining of Hilton Gaslamp in San Diego as a lifestyle hotel. And then a block away, we're in the process of a major redevelopment of Solamar, which is being transformed into a Margaritaville.

除了這些最近完成的項目之外，我們正在將聖地亞哥希爾頓瓦斯燈酒店戲劇性地重新構想為一家生活方式酒店。然後一個街區之外，我們正在進行 Solamar 的重大重建，它正在轉變為瑪格麗塔維爾。

During the same timeframe, from 2018 to today, we also fully renovated, redeveloped or transformed 8 of Pebblebrook's properties, including Westin Gaslamp and Embassy Suites San Diego Bay Downtown, Mondrian Los Angeles, the Hotel Zags in Portland, Hotel Zelos, San Francisco, Skamania Lodge in the Pacific Northwest, W Boston and LaPlaya Beach Resort in Naples. Of course, we also renovated or redeveloped most of our previous acquisitions, but we generally did so 1 or 2 years following their acquisition just as we're doing now with the redevelopment and transformations of Jekyll Island Club Resort in the Golden Isles of Georgia, Estancia La Jolla, a Hotel & Spa, and Newport Harbor Island Resort, the former Gurney's Resort in Newport, Rhode Island. The total investment in all of these projects, both completed since 2018 and currently underway, is over $520 million. And most of these properties have yet to ramp to their full stabilized potential. As detailed in our EBITDA bridge, we expect these projects to deliver $27 million of additional EBITDA over the next 3 to 4 years.

在同一時間段內，從 2018 年到今天，我們還全面翻新、重新開發或改造了 Pebblebrook 的 8 家酒店，包括聖地亞哥灣市中心威斯汀瓦斯燈酒店和 Embassy Suites 聖地亞哥灣市中心、洛杉磯蒙德里安、波特蘭扎格斯酒店、舊金山澤洛斯酒店、太平洋西北地區的 Skamania Lodge、W Boston 和那不勒斯的 LaPlaya Beach Resort。當然，我們也翻新或重新開發了我們之前的大部分收購，但我們通常在收購後的 1 或 2 年內這樣做，就像我們現在對佐治亞州金島的 Jekyll Island Club Resort 進行重建和改造一樣， Estancia La Jolla，一家酒店及水療中心，以及紐波特海港島度假村，前身為位於羅得島州紐波特的 Gurney's 度假村。自 2018 年以來完成和目前正在進行的所有這些項目的總投資超過 5.2 億美元。而且這些屬性中的大多數尚未充分發揮其穩定的潛力。正如我們的 EBITDA 橋中所詳述的那樣，我們預計這些項目將在未來 3 到 4 年內帶來 2700 萬美元的額外 EBITDA。

And as evidence of the confidence that we have in delivering this additional EBITDA, we have a sharp focus on how our customers are responding to our new products. Since 2019, our portfolio, taken as a whole, has climbed from an average customer popularity ranking of 45 on TripAdvisor to an average ranking of 33 at the end of '22, a 26% plus improvement that historically correlates with an ability to gain share through both rate and occupancy. It seems pretty clear to us that our investments have dramatically improved the overall quality of our portfolio, that our service levels have also improved, and that this substantial improvement will lead to significant RevPAR share gains and EBITDA gains. And we expect performance over time to prove the value of this large investment program.

作為我們對交付額外 EBITDA 的信心的證據，我們非常關注客戶對我們新產品的反應。自 2019 年以來，我們的產品組合作為一個整體，已從 TripAdvisor 上的平均客戶受歡迎程度排名 45 攀升至 22 年底的平均排名 33，從歷史上看，這與獲得市場份額的能力相關，提高了 26% 以上通過率和入住率。我們似乎很清楚，我們的投資顯著提高了我們投資組合的整體質量，我們的服務水平也得到了提高，而這種實質性的改善將帶來顯著的 RevPAR 份額收益和 EBITDA 收益。我們預計隨著時間的推移，業績將證明這一大型投資計劃的價值。

As it relates to this year's projects, the $25 million complete upgrading and reimagining of the 286-room Hilton Gaslamp Quarter as a lifestyle hotel has been underway since November of last year and is due to be complete in the second quarter. The $27 million redevelopment of the Solamar as a Margaritaville Hotel in Downtown San Diego began in January and should be complete early in the third quarter. The $20 million plus repositioning of Jekyll Island Club Resort began early this year and should be complete late in the second quarter. The first phase of the repositioning of Estancia commenced earlier this month and is due to be complete late in the second quarter, with the final phase starting late this year and finishing in the spring of next year. The rooms renovation at Viceroy Santa Monica started in November last year and should be complete later this quarter. This will complete the two phase $19.5 million repositioning of this iconic luxury lifestyle hotel on Ocean Boulevard in Santa Monica.

與今年的項目相關，擁有 286 間客房的 Hilton Gaslamp Quarter 耗資 2500 萬美元，作為一家生活方式酒店，自去年 11 月以來一直在進行，並將於第二季度完成。作為聖地亞哥市中心瑪格麗塔維爾酒店的 Solamar 耗資 2700 萬美元的重建工程於 1 月開始，應該會在第三季度初完成。 Jekyll Island Club Resort 耗資超過 2000 萬美元的重新定位於今年年初開始，應該會在第二季度末完成。 Estancia 重新定位的第一階段於本月早些時候開始，預計將在第二季度末完成，最後階段將於今年年底開始，並於明年春季完成。 Viceroy Santa Monica 的客房裝修於去年 11 月開始，本季度晚些時候將完成。這將完成耗資 1,950 萬美元對位於聖莫尼卡海洋大道的這家標誌性豪華生活方式酒店進行的兩期重新定位。

At Skamania, we just completed the addition of 3 more treehouses bringing the number of luxury treehouses to 9, and later this year, we'll complete 5 luxury glamping units, the first of their kind at Skamania, along with a 3-bedroom villa and two 2-bedroom cabins and our second large outdoor pavilion. As we test these new alternative lodging experiences out with our guests, the results will help guide the programming for the remaining 100 acres where we believe we can add up to another 200 lodging units.

在 Skamania，我們剛剛完成了另外 3 座樹屋的增建，使豪華樹屋的數量達到 9 座，今年晚些時候，我們將完成 5 座豪華豪華露營單元，這是 Skamania 的首創，還有一座三居室別墅和兩個雙臥室小屋和我們的第二個大型戶外涼亭。當我們與客人一起測試這些新的替代住宿體驗時，結果將有助於指導剩餘 100 英畝土地的規劃，我們相信我們可以在這些地方再增加 200 個住宿單元。

And this summer in Southernmost Resort, we'll undertake a complete $220,000 per key redevelopment and upgrading of the 4 guest houses totaling 50 rooms. Recall that 2 of these guest houses were purchased in late 2021 and immediately integrated into the resort as unique and distinct products.

今年夏天，我們將在 Southernmost Resort 對 4 間客房共計 50 間客房的重點重建和升級工程進行 220,000 美元的整套改造。回想一下，其中 2 間賓館是在 2021 年底購買的，並立即作為獨特而獨特的產品整合到度假村中。

Finally, we commenced the first phase of the redevelopment and repositioning of Newport Harbor Island Resort in December last year, and we'll commence the second phase later this year in November with the completed product delivered in Q2 of next year. The total project is currently estimated as a $45 million investment. The first phase is focused primarily on deferred capital maintenance, and the second phase represents all of the improvements that will reposition this property as a luxury resort.

最後，我們於去年 12 月開始了 Newport Harbour Island Resort 的重建和重新定位的第一階段，我們將在今年晚些時候的 11 月開始第二階段，並於明年第二季度交付完工產品。整個項目目前估計投資額為 4500 萬美元。第一階段主要關注延期資本維護，第二階段代表所有將此物業重新定位為豪華度假村的改進。

Taken together, this long list of major repositioning investments, along with a very substantial transformation of our portfolio from a heavily weighted urban coastal portfolio to a more balanced business and leisure segmented urban and resort portfolio, positions us very well for significant growth in RevPAR share and EBITDA over the next 3 to 5 years, regardless of the macro environment. And by the end of the first half of next year, with the exception of Paradise Point, we will have completed the investment portion of the strategic redevelopment program opportunity that emanated from both the LaSalle acquisition and the resort purchases we've made in the last 2 years, with only the significant upside to achieve and enjoy over the next few years.

總而言之，這一長串的重大重新定位投資，以及我們的投資組合從權重較大的城市沿海投資組合到更平衡的商業和休閒細分城市和度假村投資組合的重大轉變，使我們在 RevPAR 份額的顯著增長方面處於有利地位和未來 3 到 5 年的 EBITDA，無論宏觀環境如何。到明年上半年結束時，除了 Paradise Point 之外，我們將完成戰略重建計劃機會的投資部分，該計劃機會源自 LaSalle 收購和我們去年購買的度假村2 年，只有在接下來的幾年中才能實現和享受顯著的上升空間。

I'd also like to make one final announcement on behalf of myself and our Board. It is my great pleasure to inform you that Ray Martz, our Chief Financial Officer, and Tom Fisher, our Chief Investment Officer, have both been promoted to Co-Presidents of Pebblebrook. Frankly, the new title merely reflects the much greater leadership responsibilities these two have undertaken on over the last few years. And as my long-standing leadership partners, I want to congratulate them on this long overdue recognition of their superior efforts and value to our company. With that good news, that completes our prepared remarks. We'd now like to move to the question-and-answer portion of our call. Operator, Donna, you may now proceed with the Q&A.

我還想代表我自己和我們的董事會做出最後的聲明。我很高興地通知您，我們的首席財務官 Ray Martz 和我們的首席投資官 Tom Fisher 都已晉升為 Pebblebrook 的聯席總裁。坦率地說，新頭銜僅僅反映了這兩個人在過去幾年中承擔的更大的領導責任。作為我的長期領導合作夥伴，我要祝賀他們對他們的卓越努力和對我們公司的價值的早該認可。有了這個好消息，我們準備好的發言就完成了。我們現在想進入電話的問答部分。接線員 Donna，您現在可以繼續進行問答。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) The first question is coming from Shaun Kelley of Bank of America.

謝謝。 （操作員說明）第一個問題來自美國銀行的肖恩凱利。

Congrats to Ray and Tom on the new titles. Guys, there's a few different places we could go, but I guess in the interest of time, maybe the right way to think about it is it feels like Q1 is always a really hard quarter to extrapolate too much from. And obviously, there's a lot that's idiosyncratic that's going on with Pebblebrook's portfolio. Can you just help us think through the balance of the year to some degree? I mean obviously, if trends hold, and it seems like everything you're seeing right now is pretty positive, is it reasonable to think, Jon or Ray, that we can see year-over-year growth in the Pebblebrook portfolio for the remaining 3 quarters of the year? If, again, given that there's a lot we don't know about the macro right now? Because I think what we're trying to -- what we're struggling with a little bit is the bridge, Jon, that you laid out versus the sort of absolute number and EBITDA that kind of came in for Q1 when we look back to places like '19 and I think some of that seasonality and a lot of these renovations. Just trying to kind of get a sense of how to model or balance the remaining expectations for 2023.

祝賀 Ray 和 Tom 獲得新頭銜。伙計們，我們可以去幾個不同的地方，但我想為了節省時間，也許正確的思考方式是感覺第一季度總是一個很難推斷太多的季度。顯然，Pebblebrook 的投資組合中有很多不同尋常的地方。您能否在某種程度上幫助我們思考今年的餘額？我的意思是，很明顯，如果趨勢持續下去，而且你現在看到的一切似乎都非常積極，那麼 Jon 或 Ray 認為我們可以看到 Pebblebrook 投資組合的同比增長是否合理？一年三個季度？如果，再一次，考慮到我們現在對宏有很多不了解？因為我認為我們正在努力——我們正在努力解決的問題是喬恩，你提出的橋樑與我們回顧時第一季度出現的那種絕對數字和 EBITDA像 19 年這樣的地方，我認為其中有一些是季節性的，還有很多這樣的裝修。只是想了解如何建模或平衡 2023 年的剩餘預期。

Yes, Shaun, I think the best way to answer it is, if we assume that we don't see any material impact from an economic slowdown or recession later this year, that we would expect Q2, Q3 and Q4 all to exceed last year with the caveat of LaPlaya's impact. Let's set LaPlaya aside for the moment. We expect to be fully compensated for its performance or what it would have performed had it not been the hurricane through our insurance proceeds. But yes, we would expect that continuing significant improvement on the urban side. I would say generally flat performance in our resort portfolio with ups coming from repositioned assets and continuing improvement in the West Coast markets and probably some weakness, particularly in the Keys, in terms of bottom-line performance. Yes, we would expect 2, 3 and 4 to be improved over last year.

是的，肖恩，我認為最好的回答方式是，如果我們假設今年晚些時候我們沒有看到經濟放緩或衰退的任何實質性影響，那麼我們預計第二季度、第三季度和第四季度都將超過去年警告 LaPlaya 的影響。讓我們暫時把 LaPlaya 放在一邊。我們希望通過我們的保險收益對其表現或如果不是颶風它會表現的表現進行充分補償。但是，是的，我們預計城市方面會持續顯著改善。我想說的是，我們度假村投資組合的業績總體持平，資產重新定位和西海岸市場的持續改善帶來了增長，而且在底線業績方面可能有些疲軟，尤其是在基斯群島。是的，我們預計 2、3 和 4 會比去年有所改進。

Your next question is coming from Duane Pfennigwerth of Evercore ISI.

您的下一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 Duane Pfennigwerth。

Just with respect to the hiring environment, if you could just play back for us your experience in the fourth quarter. Was this a function of you had a bunch of open positions that were filling at a certain rate and the catch-up of that surprised you? And going forward, are you at kind of a more -- can you just sort of qualitatively speak to kind of the number of open positions you have going forward and if you sort of fully caught up on staffing?

就招聘環境而言，如果你能為我們回顧一下你在第四季度的經歷。這是因為你有一堆以一定速度填補的空缺職位，而追趕讓你感到驚訝嗎？展望未來，你是否有點——你能不能定性地談談你未來的空缺職位數量，以及你是否完全趕上了人員配置？

Yes. I'd break it into 2 areas, sort of the management team members as well as folks who fall under the administrative and general category. That's your general managers, your accounting team, finance team, etc. And then your sales and marketing team, your sales agents, your catering folks related to group. And finally, your engineering team, and I'd separate that from your sort of hourly FTEs on housekeeping and on banquet and catering, in particular food and beverage. We've had these open positions really since we've reopened the properties on the management team side and on the sales team side. And as volume came back, we added -- we sought to add people. We had a lot of struggles in the first half of last year doing that. Filling those open positions occurred on a much slower pace than what we would have liked. Albeit, as we indicated last year, helping the bottom lines from frankly, people having to work extra shifts, managers having to work shifts, having to wear lots of hats, etc., within our hotels. It started to improve in the third quarter as we were having success, more success filling open positions, but still it was still a struggle. And by the fourth quarter, all of a sudden, it was like you turned a switch on and those positions generally got filled. They did fill more quickly than the pace they had been on. I think that's probably something experienced by a lot of different industries in the back part of last year. And where we still have hiring to do just relates to volume. I think as it relates to our management staff, our sales team, our engineering team, while we still have openings, they're not materially different than they were pre-pandemic. We always have openings. We're always turning over people. We always have vacancies and we're generally filling those on a continuous basis. Where we're still hiring is, as volume returns, we're still hiring hourlies, both in housekeeping and in food and beverage. And I'd say it's a lot easier than it was, but there's still positions on the FTE side, on the hourly side that we'd like to fill that are probably still having a negative impact on some of the revenues we can generate in those areas. I think we're in pretty good shape. I think our run rate for what I would call the fixed portion of the business throughout the portfolio is generally where we want it to be or at least at the very least, it's at a similar level to where it was pre-pandemic. And we're just hiring on the hourly side as volume goes up.

是的。我將其分為 2 個區域，管理團隊成員以及屬於行政和一般類別的人員。那是你的總經理、你的會計團隊、財務團隊等。然後是你的銷售和營銷團隊、你的銷售代理、你與集團相關的餐飲人員。最後，你的工程團隊，我會把它與你在家政、宴會和餐飲方面的每小時 FTE 分開，特別是食品和飲料。自從我們重新開放管理團隊和銷售團隊方面的物業以來，我們確實有這些空缺職位。隨著銷量的回升，我們增加了——我們試圖增加人員。去年上半年，我們在這方面遇到了很多困難。填補這些空缺職位的速度比我們希望的要慢得多。儘管，正如我們去年所指出的那樣，坦率地說，在我們的酒店內，員工必須加班、經理必須輪班、必須戴很多帽子等，這有助於提高利潤。它在第三季度開始好轉，因為我們取得了成功，更多的成功填補了空缺職位，但這仍然是一場鬥爭。到了第四節，突然間，就像你打開了一個開關，這些位置通常都被填補了。他們確實比以前的步伐更快地充滿了。我認為這可能是去年下半年許多不同行業所經歷的事情。我們仍然需要招聘的地方只與數量有關。我認為這與我們的管理人員、我們的銷售團隊、我們的工程團隊有關，雖然我們仍然有職位空缺，但它們與大流行前沒有實質性不同。我們總是有空缺。我們總是把人翻過來。我們總是有職位空缺，而且我們通常會不斷填補空缺。我們仍在招聘的地方是，隨著銷量的回升，我們仍在招聘小時工，包括家政服務和食品飲料行業。我想說這比以前容易多了，但 FTE 方面仍然有一些職位，我們想要填補的小時職位可能仍然對我們可以產生的一些收入產生負面影響那些地區。我認為我們的狀態非常好。我認為我們在整個投資組合中稱為業務固定部分的運行率通常處於我們希望的水平，或者至少至少處於與大流行前水平相似的水平。隨著數量的增加，我們只是按小時招聘。

And Duane, on the cost side for the fourth quarter, if you're going to model sequentially, first, you shouldn't model it sequentially because it is very seasonal. The fourth quarter behaves differently than the first quarter. But also, in the fourth quarter of this year, we had some onetime bonuses for a lot of our management teams. That totaled about $3.5 million or so. That was more of a onetime number. I wouldn't necessarily extrapolate that out to future quarters as you model out for 2023.

Duane，在第四季度的成本方面，如果你要按順序建模，首先，你不應該按順序建模，因為它非常季節性。第四季度的表現與第一季度不同。而且，在今年第四季度，我們的許多管理團隊都獲得了一些一次性獎金。總計約 350 萬美元左右。那更像是一個一次性的數字。當您為 2023 年建模時，我不一定會將其推斷到未來的季度。

I think the one other thing to mention is, when -- we've indicated the EBITDA impact. But one, having LaPlaya out of service in the first quarter, when in the first quarter of last year with pretty much a full team there, our EBITDA margin was 56%. Between that and the negative impact on margins when we do redevelopment, when we do these redevelopments and we have properties that are running at call it 50% or 60% of the rooms available, with public areas under renovation we still have all the fixed costs from A&G, sales and marketing, accounting, engineering, etc. We just don't have the revenue volume. There's not much ability to flex other than the hourlies, which we do. And it's indicative of the negative flow on the redevelopments in the first quarter with $7.5 million of lost revenue, we're losing $5.5 million at the midpoint of the EBITDA. You can see there the flow is challenging. And so those 2 combined make our -- frankly, make our margins in Q1 look far worse than the way the business is actually performing underneath that.

我認為要提及的另一件事是，我們何時表明了 EBITDA 的影響。但是第一，LaPlaya 在第一季度停止服務，而在去年第一季度，那裡幾乎有一個完整的團隊，我們的 EBITDA 利潤率為 56%。在那和我們進行重建時對利潤率的負面影響之間，當我們進行這些重建時，我們擁有正在運行的物業，稱為 50% 或 60% 的可用房間，公共區域正在裝修，我們仍然有所有固定成本來自 A&G、銷售和營銷、會計、工程等。我們只是沒有收入量。除了每小時，我們沒有太多的靈活性。這表明第一季度重新開發的負流量有 750 萬美元的收入損失，我們在 EBITDA 的中點損失了 550 萬美元。您可以看到那裡的流程具有挑戰性。因此，這 2 個結合起來使我們 - 坦率地說，使我們在第一季度的利潤率看起來遠低於業務實際表現的方式。

The next question is coming from Bill Crow of Raymond James.

下一個問題來自 Raymond James 的 Bill Crow。

I appreciate the detailed discussion on the renovation and repositioning program. But as you went through the timeline of 3 years to design and plan, a year or so of construction, and then 3 years of ramp, and you just think about where that fits within an industry that seems to go through problems every 7 years or 8 years, I'm just wondering whether the benefits of that actually are going to be found within the public markets.

我很欣賞關於翻新和重新定位計劃的詳細討論。但是當你經歷了 3 年的時間線來設計和規劃，一年左右的建設，然後是 3 年的爬坡，你只是想在一個似乎每 7 年或8 年了，我只是想知道這樣做的好處是否真的會在公開市場上體現出來。

Well, I mean, I can't speak to the public markets. I can only speak to the value creation that goes on at the individual property level. And whether that ultimately is recognized in the public market, I'll leave to you and the investment community to determine. But there's no doubt, as we've done these projects, and in cases where we've actually sold assets that have been redeveloped, the returns have been quite attractive. Building cash flow over time in the long term, that's our business. And in the short term, like a lot of businesses, may not be recognized. I mean there's a lot of -- obviously, there's a lot of cyclical businesses out there. You still need to invest for the long term in order to generate the most attractive returns.

好吧，我的意思是，我不能在公開市場上發言。我只能談談在個人財產層面上進行的價值創造。最終是否會在公開市場上得到認可，我將留給您和投資界來決定。但毫無疑問，因為我們已經完成了這些項目，而且在我們實際出售重新開發的資產的情況下，回報非常有吸引力。從長遠來看，隨著時間的推移建立現金流，這是我們的業務。並且在短期內，像很多企業一樣，可能得不到認可。我的意思是有很多 - 顯然，那裡有很多周期性業務。您仍然需要進行長期投資以產生最具吸引力的回報。

Okay. I'm just looking at some of your recent sales that have been flat potentially to where you bottomed ex the reinvestments. I'm going to follow up with a second question for Ray. Congratulations on the new title. Given where the stock is today, it's more difficult to make the assumption that the converts are going to be converted in '26. And I'm just wondering whether that plays any role in your capital allocation decisions.

好的。我只是在看你最近的一些銷售額，這些銷售額可能與你再投資觸底的地方持平。我將跟進 Ray 的第二個問題。恭喜獲得新稱號。鑑於今天的庫存情況，更難做出轉換將在 26 年轉換的假設。我只是想知道這是否對您的資本分配決策有任何影響。

Sure. Well, we look at each of these decisions as we make additional progress in sales and what to do with that, whether it's pay down certain pieces of debt and/or reinvesting in our portfolio and stock repurchases. We look at each of those. 2026 is still a long time from now and we have other levers to pull on market. We have an access to the high-yield market. That's something that we could evaluate down the road after the yield curve comes down from where it's at. Because right now, for us, it's not that attractive. Right now -- and there's a potential we could also just extend or will issue a new convert of 2026 to pay off that one if the markets are there and we desire. There's a lot of levers we can pull. That's a lot of time between now and 2026. Really, our focus now is on, over the near term here, on addressing the various capital uses that we have planned. We have a couple of maturities coming up, nothing too significant. We only have one property mortgage that's maturing between now and 2028, and that's very manageable. And also, just a reminder, we have a $650 million line which is basically unused. And that always provides that ability to pay out some of this debt in short periods of time if the capital markets aren't accommodative for any refinancing.

當然。好吧，當我們在銷售方面取得更多進展時，我們會審視這些決定中的每一個，以及如何處理這些決定，無論是償還某些債務和/或對我們的投資組合和股票回購進行再投資。我們看看每一個。 2026 年距離現在還有很長一段時間，我們還有其他手段可以拉動市場。我們可以進入高收益市場。這是我們可以在收益率曲線從它所在的位置下降之後評估的東西。因為現在，對我們來說，它沒有那麼有吸引力。現在 - 如果市場存在並且我們希望的話，我們也有可能延長或將發布 2026 年的新轉換來償還那個。我們可以使用很多槓桿。從現在到 2026 年之間有很多時間。實際上，我們現在的重點是，在短期內，解決我們計劃的各種資本用途。我們有幾個到期日，沒什麼特別重要的。從現在到 2028 年，我們只有一項房產抵押貸款到期，而且非常易於管理。而且，提醒一下，我們有一條 6.5 億美元的線路，基本上沒有使用。如果資本市場不適合任何再融資，這總能提供在短時間內償還部分債務的能力。

I think the other thing we should not forget to put it all in perspective is, a year ago the stock was over the convert price with operating performance that was far lower than where it is today with fewer dollars invested in the portfolio in terms of its transformation. I think where the stock price is has more to do with near-term sentiment and the cyclicality, the overall economic cycle and its potential impact on our industry than it does the actual value of the company. Sentiment can change as -- Bill, as you know, you've been around as long as I've been around in this industry, and when the industry -- when things turn positive, the industry tends to move a lot and it tends to move very fast in the public markets. As Ray said, we're a long way from 2026. And -- but we do obviously look at that, and we're not making an assumption necessarily that it will get converted.

我認為我們不應該忘記的另一件事是，一年前該股票超過了轉換價格，其經營業績遠低於今天的水平，投資於投資組合的美元更少轉型。我認為股價與近期情緒和周期性、整體經濟周期及其對我們行業的潛在影響的關係更大，而不是公司的實際價值。情緒可能會發生變化——比爾，如你所知，只要我在這個行業工作，你就一直在這個行業，當這個行業——當事情變得積極時，這個行業往往會發生很大變化，而且它往往會在公開市場上行動非常迅速。正如 Ray 所說，我們距離 2026 年還有很長的路要走。而且 - 但我們顯然會考慮這一點，而且我們並不一定會做出轉換的假設。

The next question is coming from Gregory Miller of Truist Securities.

下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Gregory Miller。

Ray and Tom, very well deserved news. Kudos, gentlemen. My question, between upper upscale and luxury resorts in your portfolio and competitors, which change scale do you think is overall better positioned on occupancy and room rates this year? Is the traditional luxury leisure customer booking distinctly from the traditional upper upscale customer? Thanks.

雷和湯姆，當之無愧的消息。榮譽，先生們。我的問題是，在您的投資組合中的高檔和豪華度假村與競爭對手之間，您認為哪種變化規模在今年的入住率和房價方面總體上更好？傳統的奢侈休閒客戶預訂與傳統的高端客戶有明顯區別嗎？謝謝。

It's an interesting question. I'm not sure I know the answer to that. I think the actual luxury customer is in great financial shape, as frankly, as is the upper upscale customer. I think at the margin, what we don't know is how will the customer who was spending up if you will, maybe on a short-term temporary basis or maybe it's a change in how they allocate their dollars towards higher-end experiences, but we don't know how that's going to react in a downturn. Whether people either naturally come back down and say that was a onetime experience coming out of the pandemic, I really wanted to splurge, or whether on a longer-term basis the answer is, hey, this is the way, life is too short, I want to have these great experiences all the time, and I'm willing to spend money on this and not buy another pair of sneakers or another sweater, whatever it might be. I'm not sure I can give you a great answer to your question. I think we're going to have to see how those sectors perform in the industry overall. I think our portfolio is more heavily weighted to the upper upscale in resorts than it is to luxury, but properties certainly like LaPlaya and L'Auberge at the highest end of our portfolio, certainly appeal to that luxury customer. We're just going to have to see, Greg, how it plays out.

這是一個有趣的問題。我不確定我是否知道答案。我認為真正的奢侈品客戶的財務狀況很好，坦率地說，高端客戶也是如此。我認為在邊際上，我們不知道的是，如果你願意的話，那些正在消費的客戶將如何消費，可能是短期的臨時基礎，也可能是他們將資金分配給更高端體驗的方式發生了變化，但我們不知道這在經濟低迷時期會如何反應。人們是否自然而然地回過頭來說這是一次從大流行中走出來的經歷，我真的很想揮霍，或者從長遠來看答案是否是，嘿，就是這樣，生命太短暫了，我想一直擁有這些美好的體驗，我願意為此花錢，而不是再買一雙運動鞋或另一件毛衣，不管它是什麼。我不確定我能否很好地回答您的問題。我認為我們將不得不看看這些行業在整個行業中的表現如何。我認為我們的投資組合更偏重於度假村中的高檔酒店，而不是豪華酒店，但像 LaPlaya 和 L'Auberge 這樣位於我們投資組合最高端的酒店肯定會吸引那些豪華酒店客戶。格雷格，我們只需要看看結果如何。

I'll take a vacation over a pair of sneakers, but I appreciate the color, Jon.

我會為了一雙運動鞋去度假，但我喜歡這種顏色，喬恩。

The next question is coming from Smedes Rose of Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Smedes Rose。

I just wanted to go back. You provided what sounded like a lot of good news on the group front. And I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit more kind of where you're seeing that? Is it in your larger kind of Boston Hotel, which I think is a lot more group business? Or are you just seeing it evenly across the portfolio? And maybe just kind of any sort of themes in terms of what the demand is coming from, in particular versus kind of pre-pandemic levels?

我只是想回去。你在團隊方面提供了很多好消息。我只是想知道你是否可以多談談你看到的地方？是在你們那種規模更大的波士頓酒店裡嗎？我認為這家酒店更多的是集團業務？還是您只是在投資組合中均勻地看到它？也許只是關於需求來自什麼的任何類型的主題，特別是與大流行前的水平相比？

Sure. I think from a segmentation perspective within group, I'd say it's coming from 2 areas. One is corporate group, which is I would say back with a vengeance. We're seeing an awful lot of group, corporate groups that want to meet, that need to meet for various different reasons, whether it's bonding, whether it's meetings with their customers and events related to them, whether it's incentive to reward their people, we're seeing big increases in corporate group. And then on the association side, which of course a lot of the biggest ones come through either the big houses that we have, whether it's Copley in Boston or Westin Michigan Avenue in Chicago or Westin Gaslamp in San Diego or it's our larger resorts like Paradise Point in Mission Bay or the Mission Bay Resort in Mission Bay or Margaritaville in Hollywood, Florida, they're all benefiting from both association and corporate group increases. And I'd say a modest moderation in the number of weddings, which I think last year was sort of a catch-up year and this year seems more normalized in the overall wedding pace. Big increases, it's throughout the portfolio. And I think we've said this before, and it shouldn't be forgotten, we do a lot of group in our resorts. Some of them, like Skamania and Chaminade that were previously conference centers, do well more than 50% of their total business in group. And I would say pretty much throughout the portfolio, group is up.

當然。我認為從集團內的細分角度來看，我會說它來自 2 個領域。一個是企業集團，這是我要報復的。我們看到很多團體、企業團體想要見面，出於各種不同的原因需要見面，無論是為了建立聯繫，還是為了與客戶會面以及與他們相關的活動，無論是為了獎勵他們的員工，我們看到企業集團的大幅增長。然後在協會方面，當然有很多最大的公司來自我們擁有的大房子，無論是波士頓的科普利還是芝加哥的威斯汀密歇根大道或聖地亞哥的威斯汀加斯蘭普，或者是我們更大的度假村，如天堂Point in Mission Bay 或 Mission Bay 的 Mission Bay Resort 或佛羅里達州好萊塢的 Margaritaville，他們都受益於協會和企業集團的增長。我想說婚禮的數量會適度減少，我認為去年是一個追趕年，而今年的整體婚禮節奏似乎更加正常化。大幅增長，遍及整個投資組合。而且我認為我們之前已經說過，而且不應該忘記，我們在我們的度假村進行了很多團體活動。其中一些，如以前是會議中心的 Skamania 和 Chaminade，在集團中完成了超過 50% 的總業務。我想說的是，在整個投資組合中，團隊都在上升。

Also, Smedes, we also have a pretty favorable convention calendar this year which should benefit the urban hotels in those markets. In San Francisco, the convention center room nights are doubling versus last year, which is now about -- the room nights are about in line to where they were in 2018, so a good encouraging increase. Boston is up about 37% year-over-year. San Diego, up 25%. Seattle, about 20%. So those are all, again, encouraging themes for travel. And that really doesn't take into consideration the international inbound, which is continuing to improve from levels, especially on the West Coast, which really hasn't benefited yet from the Asia Pacific travel, which has been very, very low for the last several years.

此外，Smedes，我們今年也有一個非常有利的會議日曆，這應該有利於這些市場的城市酒店。在舊金山，會議中心間夜量與去年相比翻了一番，現在大約是——間夜量與 2018 年的水平基本持平，這是一個令人鼓舞的增長。波士頓同比增長約 37%。聖地亞哥，上漲 25%。西雅圖，約20%。因此，這些都是鼓勵旅行的主題。這真的沒有考慮國際入境，它正在從水平上繼續提高，特別是在西海岸，它真的還沒有從亞太地區的旅行中受益，這在過去一直非常非常低幾年。

I think the other thing we've been seeing, which sort of doesn't come through pace, but it comes through results, is certainly last year and earlier in this quarter, I would say attendance versus what was on the books at either city-wides or large group tended to be softer. Even earlier this year with sort of the increase in number of cases and not really people being scared about it, but frankly more people having COVID or the flu or RSV, we probably had a little more wash than what we're seeing now as things settle down on the health side. And it's good that people are sensitive about maybe not traveling when they're sick. I hope that's a new long-term trend that would benefit all of us. But it certainly helps attendance throughout the portfolio.

我認為我們一直在看到的另一件事，這不是通過速度來實現的，而是通過結果來實現的，肯定是去年和本季度早些時候，我想說的是這兩個城市的出勤率與賬本上的情況-wides 或大群體往往更柔軟。甚至在今年早些時候，隨著病例數量的增加，人們並沒有真正害怕它，但坦率地說，更多的人患有 COVID 或流感或 RSV，我們可能比現在看到的要多洗一些東西在健康方面安定下來。人們對生病時可能不去旅行很敏感，這很好。我希望這是一種新的長期趨勢，將使我們所有人受益。但它肯定有助於整個投資組合的出勤率。

The next question is coming from Aryeh Klein of BMO Capital Markets.

下一個問題來自 BMO Capital Markets 的 Aryeh Klein。

Congrats, Tom and Ray, as well. I had a quick follow-up on the comment to grow EBITDA year-over-year the remainder of '23 ex Naples. Would that include the renovation impact as well?

恭喜湯姆和雷。我對評論進行了快速跟進，以在 23 年前那不勒斯的剩餘時間裡同比增長 EBITDA。這是否也包括裝修影響？

Yes. It would still be growth even with the impact from the renovations.

是的。即使受到裝修的影響，它仍然會增長。

Got it. And then how are you thinking about dispositions moving forward? The markets that have challenges are also seeing that reflected in their prices. You've obviously sold in some of those markets. But to what extent are you willing to maybe cut bait? Or are you more inclined to wait it out?

知道了。那麼你如何看待未來的處置？面臨挑戰的市場也在其價格中看到了這一點。你顯然已經在其中一些市場上賣出了。但是你願意在多大程度上減少誘餌？或者你更傾向於等待它結束？

I think the way we evaluate dispositions is we look at what our, what the opportunities are related to what we would otherwise do with that capital. And while it's not as easy to sell an asset and buy an asset, as easy it is to buy a stock and sell a stock in the market, we do look at risk-adjusted returns in our markets over a minimum of a 5-year period. And understand are there better places to put that capital, whether it's in other markets, whether it's in other types of assets like we've done over the last 2 years, or whether it's to repurchase our stock which is trading at a 50% discount due to the leverage level of the company, but a 25% to 30% discount in actual private market value compared to how that's valued on an unlevered basis with the company. We're taking all of that into account. We obviously also are looking at what's salable in the market and what might be much more challenging to sell in a market. I would say today size is probably the biggest deterrent to a sale unless it's a high cash flowing asset of a resort. I think when we're trying to sell a 1,000-room convention hotel today, and we're not taking a shot at anybody, we have a couple of 750 and 800-room properties, it would be more difficult to sell because of the debt markets today. Now obviously, all cash buyers can buy those, but they're generally not sold to all cash buyers. We try to take everything into account, Aryeh, but we're looking -- the primary driver is where is the best return, risk-adjusted return for the shareholders? And then we have to take into account the time that it takes to do these transactions.

我認為我們評估處置的方式是我們看我們的機會與我們用這些資本做什麼有關。雖然在市場上出售資產和購買資產並不容易，但在市場上購買股票和出售股票卻很容易，但我們確實會考慮市場上至少 5 年的風險調整後回報時期。並了解是否有更好的地方來投入這些資金，無論是在其他市場，還是像我們在過去兩年所做的那樣，是在其他類型的資產中，還是回購我們以 50% 折扣交易的股票由於公司的槓桿水平，但與公司在無槓桿基礎上的估值相比，實際私人市場價值有 25% 至 30% 的折扣。我們正在考慮所有這些。顯然，我們也在研究市場上的暢銷產品以及在市場上銷售可能更具挑戰性的產品。我想說今天規模可能是銷售的最大障礙，除非它是度假村的高現金流資產。我認為，當我們今天試圖出售一家擁有 1,000 間客房的會議酒店時，我們沒有對任何人開槍，我們有幾個 750 間和 800 間客房的酒店，出售會更加困難，因為今天的債務市場。很明顯，所有現金買家都可以購買，但通常不會出售給所有現金買家。我們試圖將所有因素都考慮在內，Aryeh，但我們正在尋找——主要驅動因素是股東的最佳回報、風險調整後回報在哪裡？然後我們必須考慮進行這些交易所需的時間。

The next question is coming from Anthony Powell of Barclays.

下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的安東尼鮑威爾。

I guess maybe a related follow-up, looking at your NAV schedule in your deck, you kept kind of the mid to high 5s on a cap rate basis versus '19 NOI. That's pretty positive I guess. We've seen other cap rates rise also in real estate. What's holding in I guess your views on cap rates and value for your portfolio? Is it the unencumbered nature of smaller assets? Overview there would be great.

我想也許是一個相關的後續行動，看看你甲板上的 NAV 時間表，你在上限率的基礎上保持了中高 5 與 '19 NOI。我想這是非常積極的。我們已經看到房地產的其他資本化率也在上升。我猜您對投資組合的資本化率和價值有何看法？是較小資產的無負擔性質嗎？總覽那裡會很棒。

Yes. I mean, first of all, it's a whole bunch of factors. You shouldn't look at the cap rates and how the cap rates change to determine whether we're either properly adjusting values or that they are a proper reflection of where we could sell these assets. Some assets -- first of all, our sector, it generally doesn't trade at a cap rate. It trades at price per key, it trades at 5-year IRRs. It's very different than a long-term lease product like we have in a lot of the other sectors or a shorter-term product like apartments that are far less volatile. We have markets today where -- take much of our San Francisco portfolio, the biggest influencer in San Francisco is just price per key at this point. Just like New York went to price per key over a long span of period in the late, mid to late teens and into the early part of this decade. That's a factor as it relates to valuations. The cap rates are just a mathematical result of us valuing each individual property the way a buyer would value those properties. Which, as I said, is not a cap rate approach. The other thing to keep in mind is we're -- we've invested, I think last year out of the $100 million, I think you can argue that somewhere between $70 million and $80 million went into significant upgrades at the properties. Out of the $145 million to $155 million this year, over $100 million is going into these transformations and repositionings. The dollars being invested in the portfolio increase values. Now, maybe not by the amount we put in, that would be to a buyer to determine, but it certainly reduces the amount of capital that a buyer would be allocating in their own underwriting when they look at buying a property that's been redeveloped, renovated and repositioned. All of these things get taken into account when we look at these values. But it's traditionally -- it's done by what do we believe a buyer would pay for that today. And outside of a market that's nonfunctioning, these are pretty -- I mean, when we are selling assets, we're selling them within our NAV range. Sometimes it's at the low end, sometimes it's at the high end, sometimes it's above or below, but never by much of a percentage.

是的。我的意思是，首先，這是一大堆因素。您不應該查看上限利率以及上限利率如何變化來確定我們是否正確調整了價值，或者它們是否正確反映了我們可以在哪裡出售這些資產。一些資產——首先是我們的行業，它通常不以上限利率交易。它以每個密鑰的價格進行交易，以 5 年期 IRR 進行交易。它與我們在許多其他行業擁有的長期租賃產品或波動性小得多的公寓等短期產品截然不同。我們今天的市場 - 佔據我們舊金山投資組合的大部分，舊金山最大的影響因素只是此時每個鍵的價格。就像紐約在很長一段時間內，從十幾歲的後期、中期到後期，一直到本十年的早期，都在為每把鑰匙定價。這是一個與估值相關的因素。資本化率只是我們按照買家對這些房產進行估價的方式對每個單獨的房產進行估價的數學結果。正如我所說，這不是上限率方法。另一件要記住的事情是——我們已經投資了，我認為去年在 1 億美元中，我認為你可以爭辯說，有 7000 萬到 8000 萬美元用於對房產進行重大升級。在今年的 1.45 億美元至 1.55 億美元中，超過 1 億美元用於這些轉型和重新定位。投資於投資組合的美元會增加價值。現在，也許不是我們投入的金額，這將由買家決定，但它肯定會減少買家在考慮購買經過重新開發、翻新的房產時在他們自己的承保中分配的資本金額並重新定位。當我們查看這些值時，所有這些因素都會被考慮在內。但傳統上 - 它是通過我們認為今天買家會為此支付的費用來完成的。在一個不起作用的市場之外，這些是非常好的——我的意思是，當我們出售資產時，我們是在我們的資產淨值範圍內出售它們。有時它在低端，有時它在高端，有時它高於或低於，但從來沒有太大的百分比。

The next question is coming from Jay Kornreich of SMBC.

下一個問題來自 SMBC 的 Jay Kornreich。

Just wondering if you can provide any further commentary on the underperforming urban markets you called out in San Francisco, D.C., Chicago. How you see those improving in 2023? And I guess maybe conversely the leisure side, you mentioned some softness expected in the Keys, but any other markets you'd call out there for either strength or softness that you'd expect this year?

只是想知道你是否可以對你在舊金山、芝加哥、芝加哥表現不佳的城市市場提供任何進一步的評論。您如何看待 2023 年的改善？我想也許相反，休閒方面，你提到了 Keys 預期的一些疲軟，但你會呼籲今年的任何其他市場的強度或疲軟？

Sure. I mean, I think when we think of these slower to recover markets, there are obviously a number of factors that have impacted them. One being how they dealt with the pandemic and what impact that had on their cities. Both from a business, underlying industry perspective, change in use patterns, change in work patterns, whether people come into the office or they don't, whether they support their local restaurants and retailers, and the impact that has on the leisure experience and the convention experience that people would have coming to a market. They all had, for the most part, outside of the southern cities, most of the cities had a meaningful impact from the pandemic and the issues that have been created around that. Some of them have had quality of life issues going into the pandemic. May have worsened, may have gotten better in some markets, and they're all focused on improving that today. And we are seeing that improvement in a number of cities like San Francisco, like Chicago, and even D.C., which we think is the activity on the streets is continuing to get better. They're just slower to recover. We're seeing a significant ramp in recovery in those markets as group and transient comes back. And we shouldn't forget, cities like San Francisco, like San Diego, like Seattle and Portland, like Boston and D.C., these are big leisure destinations. And that leisure customer really didn't begin to come back in those markets until the middle of last year. We're going to see significant growth in the urban markets. I think I said most of the growth in our portfolio at the bottom line this year will come from the urban markets. And much of that is coming from the recovering markets, albeit there's still going to be -- some of them will still be below where we were in '19. And some like San Francisco, which may only get to about 50% of the EBITDA it was at in '19 this year. But there's a lot of operating leverage in these markets, and we do expect them to fully recover as I indicated in my remarks. We expect the full portfolio to get to '19, the full urban portfolio to get there in the next couple of years, but it still may mean a market like San Francisco or Seattle or Portland may still be below where it was in '19.

當然。我的意思是，我認為當我們想到這些恢復較慢的市場時，顯然有許多因素影響了它們。其中之一是他們如何應對這一流行病以及這對他們的城市產生了什麼影響。無論是從業務、底層行業的角度來看，使用模式的變化、工作模式的變化，人們是否來辦公室，他們是否支持當地的餐館和零售商，以及對休閒體驗和人們來到市場時的慣例體驗。在大多數情況下，他們都在南部城市之外，大多數城市都受到了流行病和圍繞它產生的問題的重大影響。他們中的一些人在大流行期間遇到了生活質量問題。在某些市場上可能已經惡化，可能已經變得更好，而他們今天都專注於改善這種情況。我們在舊金山、芝加哥、甚至華盛頓特區等許多城市都看到了這種改善，我們認為街頭活動正在繼續好轉。他們只是恢復得更慢。隨著群體和瞬態回歸，我們看到這些市場的複蘇顯著加快。我們不應該忘記，像舊金山、聖地亞哥、西雅圖和波特蘭、波士頓和華盛頓特區這樣的城市，都是大型休閒目的地。直到去年年中，休閒客戶才真正開始回到這些市場。我們將看到城市市場的顯著增長。我想我說過今年我們投資組合的大部分增長將來自城市市場。其中大部分來自正在復甦的市場，儘管仍然會有——其中一些仍將低於我們在 19 年的水平。還有一些像舊金山，它可能只達到今年 19 年 EBITDA 的 50% 左右。但這些市場有很多運營槓桿，我們確實希望它們能夠完全恢復，正如我在發言中所指出的那樣。我們預計整個投資組合將達到 19 年，整個城市投資組合將在未來幾年內實現，但這仍然可能意味著像舊金山、西雅圖或波特蘭這樣的市場可能仍低於 19 年的水平。

The next question is coming from Chris Darling of Green Street.

下一個問題來自 Green Street 的 Chris Darling。

Just a quick one for me. Can you comment on how the cost of insurance is changing, particularly as it relates to some of your Southeast resorts? And maybe just for context, you could maybe comment on how much insurance premiums maybe represent as a percent of revenue, percent of expense, etc.?

對我來說只是一個快速的。您能否評論一下保險費用的變化，尤其是與您的一些東南度假村相關的保險費用？也許只是為了上下文，你可以評論多少保險費可能代表收入的百分比、費用的百分比等？

Sure, Chris. Well, they're going up. Look, part of this is we don't want to negotiate against ourselves with our insurance carriers. We're starting the process of the renewals. For us, our property insurance renews in June and then our GL later in the year. But all indications of what we're seeing in the market is, it is going up. But there were a lot of events last year, which we all know. We obviously took part of that with Hurricane Ian there, but there are other kind of losses there. We expect that to go up and also the number of players in the insurance market is also strong. It's a double hit there. Right now, on a full year basis, our kind of property and GL, that's about 1.5% of our total operating costs there. It's a large number, we're talking about $20 million or so, but it's not a material number. We expect it to be challenged, especially in some of the markets on the wind storm markets like Florida. But the good thing is we have a very diversified portfolio. The carriers like us because we have -- we've done a good job here. We'll have to monitor that. We'll provide an update. My guess is by the third quarter, July earnings call, we'll have a good indication of where that came in in the renewals, and we'll update you accordingly there.

當然，克里斯。好吧，他們正在上升。看，部分原因是我們不想與我們的保險公司進行談判。我們正在啟動續訂過程。對我們來說，我們的財產保險在 6 月續保，然後我們的 GL 在今年晚些時候續保。但我們在市場上看到的所有跡像都是，它正在上漲。但是去年發生了很多事情，這是我們都知道的。我們顯然參與了那裡的颶風伊恩，但那裡還有其他類型的損失。我們預計這一數字會上升，而且保險市場的參與者數量也很強勁。這是一個雙重打擊。現在，在全年的基礎上，我們的財產和 GL 大約占我們總運營成本的 1.5%。這是一個很大的數字，我們說的是 2000 萬美元左右，但這不是一個具體數字。我們預計它會受到挑戰，尤其是在佛羅里達州等風暴市場的一些市場。但好消息是我們擁有非常多元化的投資組合。運營商喜歡我們，因為我們在這裡做得很好。我們必須對此進行監控。我們將提供更新。我的猜測是到第三季度，即 7 月的收益電話會議，我們將很好地表明續訂的位置，我們會在那里相應地更新您。

And Ray, we would expect the increase for the P&C to be greater than the GL, the general liability. I mean I don't -- we don't see the pressure on GL that we're seeing on PC.

Ray，我們預計 P&C 的增長將大於一般責任 GL。我的意思是我沒有——我們沒有看到我們在 PC 上看到的 GL 壓力。

Yes. Actually, last year, our general liability insurance actually went down on a year-over-year basis because the losses we had were pretty managed. But yes, the P&C will be going -- that will be the area that will be increasing. And look, areas like cyber actually are also being held in check and coming down. That was a year because of the ransomware. Now that's much smaller than the other side, but the P&C is more of a challenge here.

是的。實際上，去年我們的一般責任險實際上同比下降了，因為我們的損失得到了很好的控制。但是，是的，P&C 將會繼續——那將是增加的領域。看，像網絡這樣的領域實際上也在受到控制和下降。那一年是因為勒索軟件。現在這比另一邊小得多，但 P&C 在這裡更具挑戰性。

At this time, I'd like to turn the floor back over to Mr. Bortz for closing comments.

現在，我想把發言權交還給 Bortz 先生，讓他發表最後的評論。

Well, again, thank you all for taking the time to join us for our fourth quarter call. We have a quick turnaround to the next quarter in late April. We'll continue to provide these monthly updates as we've been doing. And we look forward to many of you, to seeing you down at the Raymond James Conference and the Citi Conference early next month.

好吧，再次感謝大家抽出時間參加我們的第四季度電話會議。我們將在 4 月下旬快速轉向下一季度。我們將一如既往地繼續提供這些月度更新。我們期待著你們中的許多人，在下月初的雷蒙德詹姆斯會議和花旗會議上見到你們。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's event. You may disconnect your lines or log off the webcast at this time, and enjoy the rest of your day.

謝謝。女士們，先生們，今天的活動到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路或退出網絡廣播，然後享受接下來的一天。