巴西石油 (PBR) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Petrobras' earnings call for analysts and investors. We are going to discuss our results for the second quarter of 2024. It's a pleasure to have you here. This event will be held in Portuguese, but it is being simultaneously translated into English. You may access the links to both languages on our Investor Relations website. (Event Instructions)

早安，歡迎參加巴西國家石油公司面向分析師和投資人的財報電話會議。我們將討論 2024 年第二季的業績。很高興您來到這裡。活動將以葡萄牙語舉行，但同時被翻譯成英語。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站上存取兩種語言的連結。（活動須知）

We have with us Clarice Coppetti, Executive Director of Corporate Affairs; Claudio Schlosser, Executive Director for Logistics, Trade and Markets; Fernando Melgarejo, Executive Director of Finance and Investor Relations; Mário Spinelli, Executive Director for Governance and Compliance; Mauricio Tolmasquim, Executive Director for Energy Transition and Sustainability; Renata Baruzzi, Executive Director for Engineering Technology and Innovation, Wagner Victer, Executive Director for Production and Processes; and William Francis, Executive Director for Industrial Processes and Products. We also have other executives from the company with us.

我們有公司事務執行董事 Clarice Coppetti； Claudio Schlosser，物流、貿易和市場執行董事； Fernando Melgarejo，財務與投資者關係執行董事； Mário Spinelli，治理與合規執行董事； Mauricio Tolmasquim，能源轉型和永續發展執行董事； Renata Baruzzi，工程技術與創新執行董事，Wagner Victer，生產與製程執行董事；以及工業流程和產品執行董事 William Francis。和我們在一起的還有公司的其他高階主管。

We will begin with a video bearing a message of our CEO, Magda Chambriard.

我們將首先播放一段視頻，其中包含我們首席執行官 Magda Chambriard 的致辭。

(interpreted) Good morning, everyone. I want to thank investors, analysts, and the entire audience that joined us today. Concerning the results of the second quarter of 2024, I can say that they were very solid and occurred as expected. A non-recurring event, such as the tax agreement with the Ministry of Finance, brought significant advantages to the company and to the Federal Union that were recognized by the market.

（翻譯）大家早安。我要感謝投資者、分析師以及今天加入我們的所有觀眾。關於2024年第二季的業績，我可以說非常穩健且符合預期。一項非經常性事件，例如與財政部的稅務協議，為公司和聯邦帶來了市場認可的顯著優勢。

Moreover, the strong exchange rate volatility in the period with no impact on the company's cash flow or equity affected our internal accounting impacting the quarterly results. Since our CFO, Fernando, will present our results in more detail, highlighting our free cash flow, net income, and the recurring and non-recurring event that influenced our results, I will take this opportunity to talk about the future we envision for our company.

此外，該期間匯率的劇烈波動並未對公司的現金流量或權益產生影響，但影響了我們的內部會計，從而影響了季度業績。由於我們的財務長費爾南多將更詳細地介紹我們的業績，強調我們的自由現金流、淨利潤以及影響我們業績的經常性和非經常性事件，我將藉此機會談談我們對未來的設想公司。

Ladies and gentlemen, our top priority is to pave the way for Petrobras to be enduring and as relevant or even more so to Brazil than it is today. This will only be possible if we continue to grow efficiently and with profitability. This means that we must be agile with full adherence to operational safety, people, and established governance rules. We need to be agile in maintaining our track record of replenishing reserves. While on the path to net zero, we seek more sources of clean energy.

女士們、先生們，我們的首要任務是為巴西國家石油公司的持久發展鋪平道路，使其與巴西的關係比今天更重要。只有我們繼續高效成長並保持獲利，這才有可能實現。這意味著我們必須保持敏捷，並充分遵守營運安全、人員和既定的治理規則。我們需要靈活地保持補充儲備的記錄。在實現淨零排放的道路上，我們尋求更多的清潔能源。

It's important to note that without the replacement of oil and gas reserves, Petrobras would be doomed to failure. All our achievements have been conquered through technological capabilities and our employees' firm willingness to overcome challenges and surpass the countless difficulties inherent to offshore exploration and production with safety and respect for the environment. These efforts culminated in the transformation of the pre-salt operation into an undeniable wealth for Brazil.

值得注意的是，如果不更換石油和天然氣儲備，巴西國家石油公司注定失敗。我們所有的成就都是透過技術能力和員工克服挑戰、克服安全和尊重環境的海上勘探和生產固有的無數困難的堅定意願而取得的。這些努力最終將鹽下作業轉變為巴西不可否認的財富。

Ladies and gentlemen, although there are still exploration opportunities in the pre-salt and southern -- excuse me, Southeast basins, we cannot forgo the responsible exploration of the Brazilian equatorial margin basins. It is essential for both Petrobras and Brazil that we obtained the license to drill exploratory wells. This is because if the potential of the area is confirmed, our society will see undeniable results in employment and income.

女士們、先生們，儘管鹽下盆地和南部——對不起，東南盆地仍然存在勘探機會，但我們不能放棄對巴西赤道邊緣盆地負責任的勘探。我們獲得探井鑽探許可證對於巴西國家石油公司和巴西都至關重要。這是因為，如果該地區的潛力得到證實，我們的社會將在就業和收入方面看到不可否認的成果。

In addition to the equatorial margin, we need to continue exploring the Pelotas Basin, another promising area in the south of Brazil. We're also on the lookout for opportunities in foreign territories, especially in South America and the Atlantic basins of Africa. We recall that last weekend, we discovered natural gas off the coast of Colombia in a block with high potential for new discoveries.

除了赤道邊緣之外，我們還需要繼續勘探佩洛塔斯盆地，這是巴西南部另一個有前景的地區。我們也在國外地區尋找機會，特別是在南美洲和非洲大西洋盆地。我們記得上週末，我們在哥倫比亞海岸附近的區塊中發現了天然氣，該區塊具有很高的新發現潛力。

Ladies and gentlemen, it is our agility and skills that will allow us to initiate production this year ahead of schedule at the FPSO Maria Quitéria, in Jubarte field. We have excellent, highly profitable assets, and we will apply all of our expertise to generate more value for our governmental and private shareholders.

女士們先生們，正是我們的敏捷性和技能使我們能夠在今年提前在 Jubarte 油田的 FPSO Maria Quitéria 開始生產。我們擁有優秀、高利潤的資產，我們將運用我們所有的專業知識為我們的政府和私人股東創造更多價值。

Later this year, we will also initiate operations for the ROTA 3 gas pipeline, increasing the supply of pre-salt gas to the Brazilian market. Within this context, we are attentive to opportunities for expanding the gas market, which include its use both as fuel and as raw material. We will seek to resume fertilizer and petrochemical operations, which add value to our natural gas production.

今年晚些時候，我們還將啟動ROTA 3天然氣管道的運營，增加對巴西市場的鹽下天然氣供應。在此背景下，我們關注擴大天然氣市場的機會，包括將其用作燃料和原材料。我們將尋求恢復化肥和石化業務，這將增加我們天然氣生產的價值。

Our long-term vision focuses on investments in E&P and the pursuit of diverse renewable energy sources. These two elements are essential to ensure the company's growth and profitability in the coming months. To our investors, we guarantee respect for business logic, transparency, and our governance, which is recognized as above average for companies in Brazil, including oil companies operating in our country.

我們的長期願景專注於勘探與生產投資以及對多樣化再生能源的追求。這兩個要素對於確保公司未來幾個月的成長和獲利能力至關重要。對於我們的投資者，我們保證尊重商業邏輯、透明度和我們的治理，這被認為高於巴西公司的平均水平，包括在我國運營的石油公司。

We guarantee capital discipline and controlled leverage. We ensure that we will do this by considering the investments necessary for the company's growth and the demand from state and private shareholders for dividends. We understand that in this way, we will be contributing to stimulating the country's economy and meeting the expectations of our shareholders.

我們確保資本紀律和控制槓桿。我們確保透過考慮公司發展所需的投資以及國家和私人股東對股息的需求來做到這一點。我們明白，透過這種方式，我們將為刺激國家經濟並滿足股東的期望做出貢獻。

Lastly, I thank you for your attention and trust, and emphasize that we are firmly committed to maintaining an open dialog with transparency to demonstrate the relevance of the choices we will make to build an even more solid and profitable company. Thank you very much.

最後，我感謝您的關注和信任，並強調我們堅定地致力於保持公開透明的對話，以證明我們為建立一家更加穩固和盈利的公司而做出的選擇的相關性。非常感謝。

Thank you to Magda, our CEO. We will now begin our presentation on the results for the second quarter of 2024. Our second slide presents our usual disclaimer about forward-looking statements.

感謝我們的執行長瑪格達。我們現在將開始介紹 2024 年第二季的業績。我們的第二張投影片介紹了我們通常對前瞻性陳述的免責聲明。

We will now hand it over to our Financial and Investor Relations Officer, Fernando, who will continue. Go ahead, Fernando.

我們現在將把它交給我們的財務和投資者關係官員費爾南多，他將繼續。繼續吧，費爾南多。

(interpreted) Good morning, everyone. It's a pleasure to have you here with a discussion on our results for the second quarter of 2024. As we just heard, we are in a growth journey. This is our vision. And that's why all of our team here are top brass and our employees have stuck to this journey to become more relevant for our society and provide the right dividends and returns to all stake and shareholders.

（翻譯）大家早安。很高興與您齊聚一堂，討論我們 2024 年第二季的業績。正如我們剛剛聽到的，我們正處於成長之旅。這是我們的願景。這就是為什麼我們這裡的所有團隊都是高層，我們的員工一直堅持這一旅程，以便與我們的社會更加相關，並為所有股東和股東提供適當的股息和回報。

Here, we have our operational highlights. I would like to underscore a few of them. We delivered in the first quarter of 2024 the planned production for the first two quarters of the year. In the last 12 months, our oil and gas production went up by about 2.4%. The contribution of the pre-salt in the second quarter of 2024 reached 81% of the company's total oil and gas volume. So new production systems will be important for our growth.

在這裡，我們有我們的營運亮點。我想強調其中的一些內容。我們在2024年第一季交付了今年前兩個季度的計畫產量。過去 12 個月，我們的石油和天然氣產量增加了約 2.4%。2024年第二季鹽下貢獻量達到公司油氣總量的81%。因此，新的生產系統對於我們的成長非常重要。

Marechal Duque de Caxias has the capacity of producing 180,000 barrels of oil and compressing 12 million cubic meters of gas per day. FPSO Maria Quitéria arrived last Monday and will be redirected to the Jubarte field. It can produce 100,000 barrels of oil and 5 million square -- excuse me, cubic meters of gas per day. Almirante Tamandaré in Buzios has left the shipyard in July and is expected to arrive in Brazil later this year. It will be the first high-capacity unit for Petrobras and its potential is 225,000 barrels of oil per day and 12 million cubic meters of gas.

Marechal Duque de Caxias 擁有每天生產 18 萬桶石油和壓縮 1,200 萬立方米天然氣的能力。FPSO Maria Quitéria 於上週一抵達，並將重新導向至 Jubarte 油田。它每天可以生產10萬桶石油和500萬立方米——對不起，天然氣。布基亞斯 (Buzios) 的阿爾米蘭特·塔曼達雷 (Almirante Tamandare) 已於 7 月離開造船廠，預計將於今年晚些時候抵達巴西。這將是巴西國家石油公司的第一座高產能裝置，其潛力為每天生產 225,000 桶石油和 1,200 萬立方公尺天然氣。

It's expected to start operations next year.

預計明年開始營運。

All of these units are part of a new generation of more efficient platforms with a nominal capacity of about 400,000 barrels a day, which is 15% of our current production. As you can see, we have good future perspectives, so we can start a new growth cycle.

所有這些裝置都是新一代更有效率平台的一部分，標稱產能約為每天 40 萬桶，占我們目前產量的 15%。正如你所看到的，我們有良好的未來前景，因此我們可以開始新的成長週期。

On refining, we have maintained a high level of processing with a utilization factor above 90% -- about 91% to be exact, in the second quarter and with the highest sale of byproducts than the previous quarter. We had a better performance with diesel, gasoline, QAV, reaching about 70% of the total volume produced. This demonstrates our continuous efforts, efficiency and versatility in the processing plants.

在煉油方面，我們第二季度保持了較高的加工水平，利用率在90%以上——確切地說是91%左右，副產品銷量也比上季度最高。我們的柴油、汽油、QAV 表現較好，達到了總產量的 70% 左右。這體現了我們在加工廠的持續努力、效率和多功能性。

Another piece of good news is that processing plants are in the final stage. In August, we will have a milestone for this work, which is starting reverse pressurizing of the pipeline, equalizing the pressure from the deep and shallow layers. They are already in operation. We expect to see the first commercial gas in the third quarter.

另一個好消息是加工廠進入最後階段。8月，我們將迎來這項工作的一個里程碑，即開始管道反向增壓，均衡深淺層壓力。它們已經投入運作。我們預計將在第三季看到第一批商業天然氣。

The ROTA 3 pipeline, which includes OPGN, is strategic for Petrobras and for the entire country, because it will allow 21 million cubic meters of natural gas to be processed, which will increase the offer of natural gas to the Brazilian market, reducing imports of GNS. This was essential for the results we will see on the next slide.

包括 OPGN 在內的 ROTA 3 管道對巴西國家石油公司和整個國家都具有戰略意義，因為它將處理 2,100 萬立方米天然氣，這將增加巴西市場的天然氣供應，減少天然氣進口。這對於我們將在下一張投影片中看到的結果至關重要。

We sustained consistent results with robust cash generation, reaching the lowest financial debt level since the third quarter of 2008, 16 years ago. And our CapEx increased by 12.5% this quarter in comparison to last year.

我們維持了穩定的業績和強勁的現金生成，達到了 16 年前 2008 年第三季以來的最低金融債務水準。本季我們的資本支出與去年相比成長了 12.5%。

Later on, we will discuss some events that were excluded from the first half of 2024, which are essentially in accounting and that have only a residual impact to the company's cash. Excluding these events, our net income was USD5.4 billion, our EBITDA was USD12 billion, and operating cash flow was around USD10 billion, in line with the previous quarter. We would also like to highlight that this quarter, the ANSA operation resumed, allowing the reversal of an impairment loss.

稍後，我們將討論一些被排除在 2024 年上半年之外的事件，這些事件本質上是會計方面的，僅對公司現金產生殘餘影響。排除這些事件，我們的淨利潤為 54 億美元，EBITDA 為 120 億美元，營運現金流約為 100 億美元，與上一季持平。我們還想強調的是，本季 ANSA 業務恢復，減損損失得以逆轉。

Finally, concerning our contribution to society, we had a 24% increase in tax payments in comparison to the second quarter of 2023. It's always important to highlight that over half of the company's cash generation is being paid back to society. In the second quarter of '24 alone, we had BRL70 billion in taxes paid to the federal, state and city governments. It's a significant and expressive contribution from the company to all of society.

最後，關於我們對社會的貢獻，與 2023 年第二季相比，我們的納稅額增加了 24%。需要強調的是，公司一半以上的現金產生正在回饋社會。光是 2024 年第二季度，我們就向聯邦、州和市政府繳納了 700 億雷亞爾的稅金。這是公司對全社會做出的重大且富有表現力的貢獻。

The next slide shows one-off events that impacted this quarter, especially our accounting results with only a residual cash effect, as we mentioned before. In the second quarter of 2024, we saw a significant exchange rate variation as you were able to see, a depreciation of 11% of the Brazilian real versus the US dollar, which led to a negative impact of USD2.3 billion. It's important to note that this impact took place due to a dollar obligation between Petrobras companies, which does not generate a true effect to our company. This is accounting only.

下一張投影片顯示了影響本季的一次性事件，特別是我們的會計結果，只有剩餘現金影響，正如我們之前提到的。正如大家所看到的，2024 年第二季度，我們看到了匯率的顯著變化，巴西雷亞爾兌美元貶值了 11%，這導致了 23 億美元的負面影響。值得注意的是，這種影響是由於巴西國家石油公司公司之間的美元義務而發生的，這不會對我們公司產生真正的影響。這只是會計。

We also complied to a tax transaction, and this was widely communicated, which resulted in an expense of USD2.1 billion, and that settled major legal disputes totaling BRL45 billion. From an economic perspective, this was a very advantageous negotiation for the company, and other companies in our industry are also entering this program.

我們還遵守了一項稅務交易，這一事項得到了廣泛傳達，最終產生了 21 億美元的費用，並解決了總計 450 億雷亞爾的重大法律糾紛。從經濟角度來看，這對公司來說是一次非常有利的談判，我們產業的其他公司也正在加入這個計畫。

We also had other one-off events of about USD1.3 billion. And this led to an accounting loss of $300 million. Writing off these events, our net income was $5.4 billion, which is the same that we had in the first quarter of 2024.

我們還舉辦了其他一次性活動，價值約 13 億美元。這導致了 3 億美元的會計損失。撇除這些事件，我們的淨利潤為 54 億美元，與 2024 年第一季的淨利潤相同。

The next slide shows that we have reached an expressive result in EBITDA and operating cash flow. Excluding these one-off events affecting our quarter, our EBITDA reached $12 billion, in line with what was reported last quarter. Operating cash flow was around USD10 billion, also in line with the previous quarter. We had a significant change in the foreign scenario, a reduction of 34% in diesel crackspread, from $30 in the first quarter to $20 in the second quarter of 2024, and this is per barrel.

下一張投影片顯示我們在 EBITDA 和營運現金流方面取得了可喜的成果。排除這些影響本季的一次性事件，我們的 EBITDA 達到 120 億美元，與上季報告的情況一致。營運現金流約 100 億美元，也與上一季持平。我們的國外情況發生了重大變化，柴油裂解價差減少了 34%，從第一季的 30 美元降至 2024 年第二季的 20 美元，這是每桶。

Slide 8 shows our cash flow generation. It remained consistent. We had a positive free cash flow of -- excuse me, a positive cash flow generation of $9.1 billion and a positive free cash flow of $6.1 billion. This was enough to sustain our investments and financial investments. We also were able to pay out dividends.

幻燈片 8 顯示了我們的現金流產生。它保持一致。對不起，我們的正自由現金流為 91 億美元，正自由現金流為 61 億美元。這足以維持我們的投資和財務投資。我們還能夠支付股息。

Throughout the quarter, as you can see on the right-hand side of the graph, we use our cash to pay dividends, as approved in the previous quarter, of around USD7.3 billion, including share buybacks. We also made $2.9 billion in investments and made payments of leasings and liabilities of $2 billion.

正如您在圖表右側看到的那樣，在整個季度中，我們使用現金支付上一季批准的約 73 億美元的股息，包括股票回購。我們也進行了 29 億美元的投資，並支付了 20 億美元的租賃和負債。

Net financial debt amortizations were $700 million, and financial expenses accounted to $400 million. Also, our CapEx totaled $6.4 billion in the first half of 2024, 12% higher than in the first half of '23. We project to end 2024 with investments ranging from USD13.5 million to USD14.5 billion, which is an increase of 7% to 15% compared to 2023. It's important to note that this revision has no impact in the company's production curve.

淨財務債務攤銷為7億美元，財務費用為4億美元。此外，2024 年上半年我們的資本支出總計 64 億美元，比 2023 年上半年成長 12%。我們預計到2024年底，投資範圍為1,350萬美元至145億美元，比2023年成長7%至15%。值得注意的是，此次修訂對公司的生產曲線沒有影響。

Slide 9 discusses our financial debt. It has reached its lowest level since the third quarter of 2008. We are now at $26 billion, a reduction of $2.5 billion versus the previous quarter. Gross debt went down to $59.6 billion. Our cash position is robust, and we have reached over $13 billion at the end of the quarter.

第 9 張幻燈片討論了我們的金融債務。已達到2008年第三季以來的最低水準。我們現在的規模為 260 億美元，比上一季減少了 25 億美元。總債務下降至 596 億美元。我們的現金狀況強勁，截至本季末已超過 130 億美元。

We concluded the quarter with a spread to the US treasury rate of 2.2%, the lowest in the last years; and an average debt maturity of nearly 12 years.

本季結束時，美國公債利率利差為 2.2%，為近年來最低；平均債務期限接近12年。

The next slide shows our commitment to shareholder remuneration and financial sustainability. Our Board recently approved dividends and interest on own capital for the second quarter of 2024 of BRL1.05 per share, which will be paid in two equal installments in November and December of 2024. Shareholder remuneration for the second quarter is BRL14.3 billion, and this includes share buybacks amounting to BRL700 million and dividends plus interest on capital of BRL13.6 billion. Our strong cash generation has allowed us to pay these dividends according to our current policy.

下一張投影片顯示了我們對股東薪酬和財務可持續性的承諾。我們的董事會最近批准了 2024 年第二季每股 1.05 雷亞爾的股息和自有資本利息，將於 2024 年 11 月和 12 月分兩期等額支付。第二季股東報酬為143億雷亞爾，其中包括7億雷亞爾的股票回購和136億雷亞爾的股利加資本利息。我們強大的現金產生能力使我們能夠根據當前政策支付這些股利。

The next slide shows an accrued vision for this half in which dividends exceed our results due to these one-off events that had a residual impact on cash. This has allowed us to comply with our shareholder remuneration as we have paid investments, taxes, salaries, and so on. So we are using our capital reserve created in 2023 to ensure resources for dividend payments, among other things, helping to balance eventual gaps between cash and earnings. In 2023, our results were above our cash, which was enough to pay dividends and constitute a remuneration reserve.

下一張幻燈片顯示了今年上半年的累積願景，其中股息超過了我們的業績，因為這些一次性事件對現金產生了殘餘影響。這使我們能夠遵守我們的股東薪酬，因為我們已經支付了投資、稅收、工資等。因此，我們正在利用 2023 年創建的資本儲備來確保股息支付等資源，以幫助平衡現金和收益之間的最終缺口。2023年，我們的業績高於現金，足以支付股利並構成薪資儲備。

This half of the year, we had the opposite situation. So now we are using the reserve for what it was created. To speak in numbers, in the April General Assembly, we approved BRL21.9 billion to this reserve. And considering we had BRL27 billion and the available cash of BRL20 billion, we are using BRL6.4 billion from our remuneration reserve to paid dividends and interest on our own capital. The balance remains relevant, BRL15.5 billion.

今年上半年，我們的情況卻相反。所以現在我們將儲備金用於其創建的內容。用數字來說，在四月的大會上，我們批准了219億雷亞爾的儲備金。考慮到我們擁有 270 億雷亞爾和 200 億雷亞爾的可用現金，我們將使用薪資儲備中的 64 億雷亞爾來支付自有資本的股息和利息。餘額仍然有效，為 155 億雷亞爾。

We continue with the next and final slide. Here, we can see how we were able to have a total shareholder return above the majors. Despite these advances, we still have a gap on enterprise value to EBITDA. This is an opportunity for the company. So we have to continue working to deliver value through growth and profitability with discipline, especially in capital and governance.

我們繼續下一張也是最後一張投影片。在這裡，我們可以看到我們如何能夠獲得高於各大公司的股東總回報。儘管取得了這些進步，我們的企業價值與 EBITDA 仍然存在差距。這對公司來說是一個機會。因此，我們必須繼續努力透過紀律性的成長和獲利能力來創造價值，特別是在資本和治理方面。

We see many opportunities for Petrobras. We have profitable projects. We can expand our production, decarbonize it, and also provide more value to our shareholders and to Brazil.

我們看到巴西石油公司有很多機會。我們有有利可圖的項目。我們可以擴大生產，使其脫碳，並為我們的股東和巴西提供更多價值。

This concludes my presentation. And I will now pass it over to Eduardo, who will begin our questions-and-answer session. Thank you, everyone.

我的演講到此結束。現在我將把它交給愛德華多，他將開始我們的問答環節。謝謝大家。

(Event Instructions) Bruno Montanari, Morgan Stanley.

（活動說明）布魯諾·蒙塔納裡（Bruno Montanari），摩根士丹利。

Good morning and thanks for accepting my questions. My first question is about the compensation to shareholders and thinking about a decision where we're potentially going to be paying more extraordinary dividends. What's the company's perspective for the best moment to make this decision? Would you wait until the end of the fiscal year? Or could we think about payments after the closing of the third quarter of 2024, where the cash flow must be very high?

早安，感謝您接受我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於對股東的補償，並考慮我們可能會支付更多特別股息的決定。公司對於做出這項決定的最佳時機有何看法？您會等到本財年結束嗎？或者我們可以考慮在 2024 年第三季結束後付款，此時現金流一定非常高？

And concerning compensation to shareholders, the company concluded very successfully the pilot purchasing program. So what was -- how successful was the compensation strategy? Should we expect maybe a bigger buyback program?

在對股東的補償方面，公司非常成功地完成了試點收購計畫。那麼薪酬策略有多成功呢？我們是否應該期待更大的回購計畫？

And my second question is about international exploration. Could you talk about the strategic fit of potentially diversifying the exploration portfolio, such as, for instance, in Namibia's basins? And potential disbursements with these acquisitions, are they considered in the investment plan? And my question is because expenses with exploration at up to approximately $1.3 billion, this could be small vis-a-vis some opportunities that we can see such as the case of Namibia, for instance. Thank you.

我的第二個問題是關於國際探索。您能否談談勘探組合潛在多樣化的策略契合度，例如在納米比亞盆地？這些收購的潛在支出是否已納入投資計畫？我的問題是，因為勘探費用高達約 13 億美元，與我們可以看到的一些機會（例如納米比亞的情況）相比，這可能很小。謝謝。

Thank you, Bruno. And I'll ask Fernando to answer these questions. Over to you, Fernando.

謝謝你，布魯諾。我將請費爾南多回答這些問題。交給你了，費爾南多。

(interpreted) Thanks, Bruno. I think he mentioned an important aspect that we have to clarify. A lot has been discussed about that. So I'll take the opportunity to clarify about how the reserve works.

（譯）謝謝，布魯諾。我認為他提到了我們必須澄清的一個重要方面。關於這一點已經討論了很多。因此，我將藉此機會澄清儲備金的運作方式。

Having a reserve does not mean that we have cash flow. It's an accounting reserve. It's different concepts in that regard. The reserve is an accounting provision that's associated to the allocation of profit and in the fiscal years. And we know that there is no perfect correlation between the generation of profit and cash generation. These are different concepts, and they can happen differently.

有儲備並不意味著我們有現金流。這是會計準備金。在這方面這是不同的概念。儲備金是與會計年度利潤分配相關的會計準備金。我們知道，利潤的產生和現金的產生之間並不存在完美的相關性。這些是不同的概念，而且它們發生的方式可能不同。

Last quarter, we had a low profit, but we maintained the cash flow generation stable. So I'd like you to understand that when you decide to pay dividends, whatever they are, we consider the company's cash flow and the capacity to generate the flows in the future and not to the reserve.

上季度，我們利潤較低，但現金流保持穩定。因此，我希望您明白，當您決定支付股息時，無論股息是什麼，我們都會考慮公司的現金流量以及未來產生現金流量的能力，而不是儲備金。

In 2023, Petrobras had more profit than what it paid in dividends, as I showed in the presentation, and that's why it created a BRL21.9 billion reserve. And the opposite happened in the second quarter due to losses of the quarter due to exclusive items associated to a strong cash flow generation. We use the reserve to subsidize payments.

正如我在演示中所示，2023 年，巴西國家石油公司的利潤超過了其支付的股息，這就是它創造了 219 億雷亞爾儲備金的原因。第二季度的情況則相反，由於與強勁現金流產生相關的獨家項目導致該季度虧損。我們使用儲備金來補貼付款。

By the way, I wish to remind you that this possible mismatch between the profit and cash flow were served as a motivation for the creation of the reserve in 2023. If we didn't have a reserve today, it would be difficult to pay the quarterly dividends for us since our dividends amounted to BRL27 billion and the profit was BRL20 billion. It's a difference of approximately BRL6 billion, and that's why we resorted to the reserve.

順便說一句，我想提醒大家，利潤和現金流之間可能的不匹配是2023年設立準備金的動機。如果我們今天沒有準備金，我們就很難支付季度股息，因為我們的股息為 270 億雷亞爾，利潤為 200 億雷亞爾。兩者相差約 60 億雷亞爾，這就是我們動用儲備金的原因。

About the decision, to us, it's just natural to assess it when we approved the strategic planning once the extraordinary payments depend on future flows and not the capital compensation reserve. And to highlight, the decision to use the reserve yesterday will not affect our capacity to pay the extraordinary dividends.

關於這個決定，對我們來說，一旦特別付款取決於未來的流量而不是資本補償準備金，當我們批准策略規劃時，評估它是很自然的。需要強調的是，昨天使用儲備金的決定不會影響我們支付特別股利的能力。

About the buyback program, we have had no formal discussion about that. We completed the program in August at almost $1 billion. And what we're doing now, I ask my team to assess the real effectiveness and efficiency of the capital for that operation.

關於回購計劃，我們尚未進行正式討論。我們在 8 月完成了該計劃，耗資近 10 億美元。我們現在正在做的事情是，我要求我的團隊評估該營運資本的實際有效性和效率。

To your second question about Namibia, our intention is to diversify the portfolio and that's a key for the growth of the company. And as a reminder, according to the current strategic planning, we have an expectation to reduce production as of 2030. I consider that that's far from ideal.

關於納米比亞的第二個問題，我們的目的是實現產品組合多元化，這是公司發展的關鍵。提醒一下，根據目前的策略規劃，我們預計到 2030 年將減少產量。我認為這遠非理想。

And therefore, we need to make efforts in Brazil or in the equatorial margin in Pelotas Basin or abroad to have an adequate profile for long-term production. And I want to emphasize that we'll only enter into agreements at adequate prices. We want to generate value with our experience in deep waters.

因此，我們需要在巴西或佩洛塔斯盆地赤道邊緣或國外做出努力，以獲得足夠的長期生產能力。我想強調的是，我們只會以適當的價格達成協議。我們希望利用我們在深水領域的經驗創造價值。

About the CapEx, as you mentioned, we have not published how much we have allocated for bids and et cetera, because that's business' secret. But from a practical perspective, the lack of allocation will not prevent us from leveraging opportunities. Of course, we'll assess every opportunity we have as long as they adequately reflect the allocation of capital. We just need to keep the yearly budget stable.

關於資本支出，正如您所提到的，我們尚未公佈為投標等分配了多少資金，因為這是商業機密。但從實際角度來看，配置不足並不妨礙我們利用機會。當然，我們會評估我們擁有的每一個機會，只要它們充分反映了資本的配置。我們只需要保持年度預算穩定。

Vicente, Bradesco.

維森特、布拉德斯科。

Thanks, Edu and Fernando and everybody, for your attendance. I have two questions. We're now entering a period of higher demand for diesel. And apparently, Russia, is prioritizing the supply of other markets. I think the shipments to Brazil are decreasing.

感謝埃杜和費爾南多以及大家的出席。我有兩個問題。我們現在正進入柴油需求較高的時期。顯然，俄羅斯正在優先考慮其他市場的供應。我認為巴西的出貨量正在減少。

What's Petrobras' strategy to supply diesel to Brazil in the third quarter? Are you going to work along with other importers or not?

巴西國家石油公司第三季向巴西供應柴油的策略是什麼？您是否打算與其他進口商合作？

The second question, I'd like to understand, from a technical standpoint, what based the decisions to change the E&P agency? Can we expect anything different for the development programs, especially if we think about costs? Thank you.

第二個問題，我想從技術角度了解，變更勘探生產機構的決定是基於什麼？我們可以期待開發計劃有什麼不同嗎，尤其是考慮到成本時？謝謝。

Well, I'll ask Director Schlosser to answer your first question. Schlosser, please.

好的，我請施洛瑟主任回答你的第一個問題。施洛瑟，請。

(interpreted) Good morning, Vicente. You did a perfect analysis. We have a seasonality in the second half of the year, which is related to an additional consumption of diesel, whether it is to the crops in Brazil or due to stock formation in the north. So there is bigger pressure on diesel definitely.

（翻譯）早安，維森特。你分析得很完美。下半年我們有一個季節性，這與柴油的額外消耗有關，無論是巴西的農作物還是北方的庫存形成。所以柴油肯定面臨更大的壓力。

And about the supply, Petrobras is not the only company that supplies to Brazil. We have private refineries, petrochemical companies. We have importers that also operate in this market.

關於供應，巴西國家石油公司並不是唯一一家向巴西供應產品的公司。我們有私營煉油廠、石化公司。我們的進口商也在這個市場開展業務。

So let's talk about planning. What we do is a multi-annual planning knowing that there is a certain seasonality and it is recurrent every year, our plan already provides for a series of measures. The most important one is about the downtimes, the maintenance downtimes, we try to allocate them to periods where the demand is a little lower, like January, for instance.

那我們來談談規劃吧。我們做的是一個多年度的規劃，知道有一定的季節性，而且每年都有週期性，我們的規劃已經規定了一系列的措施。最重要的是關於停機時間、維護停機時間，我們嘗試將它們分配到需求稍低的時期，例如一月。

We also do active management of our inventories. So knowing about this demand fluctuation, we try to take advantage from our experts of byproducts to Asia. And we also -- using the backward shipping, we also sent back diesel to replenish the inventories.

我們也積極管理庫存。因此，在了解這種需求波動後，我們嘗試利用我們的亞洲副產品專家的優勢。我們也——利用落後的運輸，我們也送回了柴油來補充庫存。

And we also talked about the Russian diesel and its [partization] by the domestic market. We do not import diesel from Russia. So it will not affect our plans. We're fully prepared to cater to the demands of our customers.

我們也討論了俄羅斯柴油及其國內市場的[分配]。我們不從俄羅斯進口柴油。所以不會影響我們的計劃。我們已做好充分準備來滿足客戶的需求。

Thanks, Schlosser.

謝謝，施洛瑟。

(interpreted) Good morning. Vicente, it's a pleasure to speak to you and everybody that's watching this conversation. Well, from the perspective of forming new teams in the exploration and production department, we have decided to replace some executive managers. But Petrobras has a very solid process whereby it educates and trains its workforce. So historically speaking, it has always trained excellent workers.

（翻譯）早安。文森特，很高興與你和所有觀看這次對話的人交談。那麼從勘探和生產部門組建新團隊的角度來說,我們決定更換一些執行管理人員。但巴西國家石油公司有一套非常完善的流程來教育和訓練員工。所以從歷史上看，它一直培養出優秀的工人。

The new director and she is the one that makes the decisions about the new management positions, especially the executive managers and general managers. She is a geologist with 40-year experience, and she participated in many discoveries of the company.

新任董事和她是新管理職位的決策者，特別是執行經理和總經理。她是一位擁有40年經驗的地質學家，參與了公司的多項發現。

And the fact that the company selected her for this position in itself indicates that the company wishes to expand its portfolio of reserves. And when she sets up a team, she chooses experienced professionals that basically come from the technical staff of the company. If we take, for instance, the two new representatives of deep and ultra-deep waters, one of them will remain in its position, [Paula Marinho], that's been with the company for 20 years, and Cesar has been with the company for 22 years.

公司選擇她擔任這一職位本身就表明公司希望擴大其儲備組合。而且她在組建團隊時，選擇的都是經驗豐富的專業人士，基本上都是來自公司的技術人員。例如，如果我們以深水和超深水領域的兩位新代表為例，其中一位將繼續擔任其職位，[Paula Marinho]，她已在公司工作了20 年，而塞薩爾(Cesar) 已在公司工作了20 年。

If you talk about E&P, there is [John Hilton], geologist externally renowned with a 37-year experience with the company. [Gennaro] that's replacing Bruno, he is also an acknowledged professional in several areas. He's a professor in several departments, and he has 21 years of experience.

如果你談論勘探與生產，你會提到[約翰·希爾頓]，他是一位在公司工作了 37 年的地質學家，在外界享有盛譽。 [Gennaro] 將取代布魯諾，他也是多個領域公認的專業人士。他是多個系的教授，擁有 21 年的經驗。

I have a 37-year experience, and Bruno, he has a 20-year experience. Professor Eduardo, that he had been working as a consultant to the presidency, has a fantastic experience with the PhD. And he is, for reference, not only for the internal market, but also for the foreign market.

我有37年的經驗，布魯諾有20年的經驗。愛德華多教授曾擔任總統顧問，在攻讀博士學位期間擁有美好的經驗。而他作為參考，不僅是針對國內市場，也是針對國外市場。

So it's an extremely robust team and a very solid one. And we basically have professionals with long-term experience. And if we draw a parallel with the law of SAs in Article 17, they can certainly occupy positions as directors or hire in any state-owned company of Brazil. So it's a very robust team that's been widely discussed by Director, Silva and President, Magda.

所以這是一支非常強大、非常可靠的團隊。而且我們基本上都有長期經驗的專業人士。如果我們將其與 SA 法第 17 條進行比較，他們當然可以在巴西任何國有公司中擔任董事或受聘職位。這是一個非常強大的團隊，總監 Silva 和總裁 Magda 對此進行了廣泛討論。

About Buzios, to your point, I spent this morning at our operations center already. And right now, we have a platform with program to downtime, and we're producing thousands of barrels of oil and will reach a record-breaking production that's in excess of 800,000 barrels, and we expect to ramp up from Admiral Barroso, we received authorization for additional production vis-a-vis the original project.

關於布齊奧斯，就你而言，我今天早上已經在我們的營運中心度過了。現在，我們有一個有停機計劃的平台，我們正在生產數千桶石油，並將達到破紀錄的產量，超過 800,000 桶，我們預計巴羅佐上將會增加產量，我們收到了相對於原始項目的額外生產授權。

And so, with the arrival of Admiral Tamandaré, that's underway It left China a week ago. We are going to incorporate a big platform to the Buzios system with a processing plant of 225 barrels.

因此，隨著塔曼達雷上將的到來，它在一周前離開了中國。我們將在 Buzios 系統中整合一個大型平台，並配備 225 個桶的加工廠。

So what we have ahead of us is extremely promising, especially for Buzios. As soon as the platform arrives, we're thinking about initiating an internal motivational process to move towards 1 million barrels of oil in Buzios within a timeframe that's to be defined. So it's quite promising with robust teams, with extremely acknowledged professionals, especially with deep knowledge about the market trained by Petrobras, and that's acknowledged by the internal body of the company.

因此，我們面臨的前景非常光明，尤其是對布基亞斯來說。平台一到達，我們就會考慮啟動內部激勵流程，以便在規定的時間內在布基亞斯生產 100 萬桶石油。因此，擁有強大的團隊、備受認可的專業人士，尤其是經過巴西國家石油公司培訓的對市場有深入了解的人，並且得到公司內部機構的認可，這是非常有前途的。

Pedro Soares, BTG Pactual.

佩德羅·蘇亞雷斯，BTG Pactual。

Good morning, everyone. I have two questions. The first question goes to Fernando. I think you were very clear when you explained that extraordinary dividends are not attached. Your decision about them is not attached to the reserve itself, but rather the cash flow of the company in the context of what you forecast for investments.

大家早安。我有兩個問題。第一個問題問費南多。我認為您在解釋不附加特別股息時說得很清楚。您對它們的決定並不取決於儲備本身，而是取決於您預測的投資背景下公司的現金流量。

So maybe you could explain to us what you imagine for an ideal cash flow for the company, Do the $13 billion seem to be above or below? So that we can try to have a better understanding about the expectations for the extraordinary moving forward, given that your investments are apparently very well-funded by the quarterly cash flow generation.

那麼也許您可以向我們解釋一下您對公司理想現金流的設想，130 億美元是高於還是低於？鑑於您的投資顯然由季度現金流產生提供了充足的資金，因此我們可以嘗試更好地了解對未來非凡發展的預期。

And about production, I'd like to hear from you about the July production levels. We're a bit in the dark as it were with the daily information from ANP. And also, how long will it take us to normalize and to go back to normal in the exit rate for 2024? That's it.

關於生產，我想聽聽您關於 7 月份生產水準的情況。我們對 ANP 的每日資訊一無所知。另外，我們需要多長時間才能實現 2024 年退出率正常化並恢復正常？就是這樣。

Thanks, Pedro. First, I'll give the floor to Victer, who will talk about production, and then Fernando will talk about the cash flow.

謝謝，佩德羅。首先，我將請維克特發言，他將談論生產，然後費爾南多將談論現金流。

(interpreted) Well, about production, we're working within the projected levels, and this is our perspective up until the end of the year, to work within the limits of our business plan at 3.8 billion oil equivalents. We're within average. And we'll certainly attempt to remain as such up until the end of the year.

（解釋）嗯，關於生產，我們正在預計的水平內工作，這是我們直到今年年底的前景，在我們的業務計劃的範圍內工作，即 38 億石油當量。我們處於平均水平內。我們肯定會努力保持這種狀態直到今年年底。

We really had a few hindrances to the production curve forecast for July, a few downtimes that are being postponed, like I said, the P74 and some occurrences, some incidents that we had that we are correcting. We had a downtime at Peak 38 due to an unforeseen problem. The measures are being taken, and we are in the process of recovery. And I believe that in 30 or 45 days, that will go back to normal.

我們對 7 月的生產曲線預測確實遇到了一些障礙，一些停機時間被推遲，就像我說的，P74 和一些事件，我們正在糾正一些事件。由於不可預見的問題，我們在 Peak 38 發生了停機。我們正在採取措施，我們正在恢復過程中。我相信 30 或 45 天后，情況就會恢復正常。

Now P53 also was faced a problem and it's being solved. And P53 ANP is being solved already. And we also had from [with whaler] at [Broncador]. So these issues will be compensated. They've already been considered according to our expectations.

現在P53也遇到了問題，並且正在解決中。P53 ANP 已經解決。我們也從[與捕鯨者]那裡得到了[布隆卡多]。所以這些問題都會得到補償。它們已經根據我們的期望進行了考慮。

And of course, we always work within the margins of our business plan. As I said, we also have positive perspectives for production, not only July, but also next year. Also, based on our risk department, especially this growth that we're having at Almirante Barroso, with Almirante Barroso, there's also the arrival of Maria Quitéria to the Jubarte field.

當然，我們始終在業務計劃的範圍內開展工作。正如我所說，我們對生產也抱持正面的看法，不僅是七月，而且是明年。此外，根據我們的風險部門，特別是我們在 Almirante Barroso 的成長，以及 Almirante Barroso 的到來，Maria Quitéria 也來到了 Jubarte 領域。

We'll probably anticipate that vis-a-vis the previously existing business plan, Maria Quitéria is already moving to its location in Espírito Santo, and there's Admiral Tamandaré that's arriving and we'll make every effort with the team to anticipate that vis-a-vis the business plan.

我們可能會預計，相對於之前現有的業務計劃，Maria Quitéria 已經搬到了聖埃斯皮里圖，並且 Admiral Tamandare 也即將抵達，我們將與團隊盡一切努力來預計相對於商業計劃。

So we did have some incidents that were, of course, unforeseen -- and that's just part of our activity, our relationship with the control agencies and to maintain the safety levels. That's fundamental. But we also had positive incidents that will put us back on track.

所以我們確實發生了一些當然不可預見的事件——這只是我們活動、我們與控制機構的關係以及維持安全水平的一部分。這是根本。但我們也發生了一些正面的事件，這些事件將使我們重回正軌。

(interpreted) Well, about the optimal or optimized cash flow. Thanks for the question. I think this is a discussion that at finance in the finance department of any institution, we're constantly discussing. It's a living organism that depends on the current scenario and the investment scenario, if you're divesting or investing or if you're going through a flat period inside the company, all of that interferes with the ideal cash flow size that we will try to achieve for the company that we call an optimized cash flow. Of course, this is not an accurate number.

（解釋）嗯，關於最佳或優化的現金流。謝謝你的提問。我認為這是任何機構財務部門的財務人員都在不斷討論的討論。它是一個活的有機體，取決於當前的情況和投資情況，如果你正在剝離或投資，或者如果你正在經歷公司內部的平穩時期，所有這些都會幹擾我們將嘗試的理想現金流量規模為公司實現我們所說的優化現金流。當然，這不是一個準確的數字。

We always work with a range, and we use every piece of information we have in terms of flows, inflows, outflows.

我們總是在一個範圍內工作，並使用我們所擁有的有關流量、流入、流出的每一個資訊。

Strategic planning is an important input that we need to have access to because this is what generates the biggest outflow. There's also the operational resources. So we feed all of that into a modeling, and we add stress situation data and its size is a size that's able to support to withstand high impact in unexpected events with low probability. So high impact low probability event needs to be -- you have to be able to have a plan that will allow you to have enough cash flow to withstand that situation.

策略規劃是我們需要獲得的重要投入，因為這會產生最大的流出。還有營運資源。因此，我們將所有這些輸入到建模中，並添加壓力情況數據，其大小能夠支持承受低機率的意外事件的高影響。因此，高影響低機率事件需要 - 你必須能夠制定一個計劃，讓你有足夠的現金流來承受這種情況。

You're talking about the tail of the curve statistically speaking, and these tests have been modeled very robustly at Petrobras. When I came to Petrobras, I was dedicated to understanding that. I was truly happy about the modeling that we have, and it's in the sense that we're trying to achieve that.

從統計學上來說，你談論的是曲線的尾部，這些測試在巴西國家石油公司已經建立了非常穩健的模型。當我來到巴西國家石油公司時，我致力於了解這一點。我對我們擁有的建模感到非常高興，從某種意義上說，我們正在努力實現這一目標。

The curve has reached 13.5% now, and there were some points in the past where we reached [8 million]. And we have a metric which is number that we don't publish, but we're -- we understand that optimization is not working 100% yet, but by 2025, we're going to get there.

現在曲線已經達到 13.5%，過去的一些點我們達到了[800萬]。我們有一個指標，我們沒有發布這個數字，但我們知道優化還沒有 100% 發揮作用，但到 2025 年，我們將實現這一目標。

Gabriel Barra, Citi.

加布里埃爾·巴拉，花旗銀行。

So I'm going to focus on my two questions. Picking up on the conversation about internationalization. A lot has been said about licensing and Magda, she mentioned that the equatorial margin in Pelotas are very important for the company, but we've been seeing some delays in obtaining the licenses.

所以我將重點討論我的兩個問題。繼續談國際化。關於許可和瑪格達已經說了很多，她提到佩洛塔斯的赤道邊緣對公司來說非常重要，但我們看到在獲得許可方面出現了一些延誤。

And my question is would internationalization be a B plan to mitigate these impacts or delays regarding Pelotas or is it a structural plan of the company? And if so, how should we think about it moving forward?

我的問題是，國際化是否是一項 B 計劃，旨在減輕佩洛塔斯的這些影響或延誤，還是公司的結構計劃？如果是這樣，我們該如何思考它的未來？

And about CapEx, maybe that's a question that received this morning. There's a lot of questions about the shape of the curve of investments. If there was a decrease in the guidance for this year and if -- without a decrease in production or that have a little bit more fats than it should or do the company gain efficiency over time, and it's now adjusting for it?

關於資本支出，也許這是今天早上收到的問題。關於投資曲線的形狀存在著許多問題。如果今年的指導有所減少，並且如果產量沒有減少，或者脂肪含量比應有的多一點，或者公司是否會隨著時間的推移而提高效率，並且現在正在對此進行調整？

So it's two questions, actually. One, if we look at the lower CapEx, could we -- would that be postponed to next year? Or is it really an efficiency gain? And the shape of the curve of investments moving forward, should that be modified given that we're being more conservative in terms of the investment plans of the company, especially about the upstream and how would that communicate with a slightly tighter industry in terms of contracting FPSOs and vessels? And how can we expedite that in the next few years? Those are my questions.

所以其實這是兩個問題。第一，如果我們考慮較低的資本支出，我們是否可以將其推遲到明年？或者說這真的是一種效率提升嗎？考慮到我們在公司的投資計劃方面更加保守，尤其是在上游方面，以及如何與稍微緊張的行業進行溝通，未來投資曲線的形狀是否應該進行修改？ 承包 FPSO 和船舶？我們如何在未來幾年加快這項進程？這些都是我的問題。

So I'll give the floor to Fernando about CapEx and maybe Victer.

因此，我將請 Fernando 談談資本支出，也許還有 Victer。

(interpreted) Thank you, Gabriel. Our plan last year was really $18.5 billion. And now it's between $3.5 billion (sic - "$13.5 billion") and $14.5 billion, but it's still too early. We're still in the middle of the strategic plan. It's still early to accurately say what the final amount is going to be.

（翻譯）謝謝你，加布里埃爾。我們去年的計劃實際上是 185 億美元。現在它在 35 億美元（原文如此，「135 億美元」）到 145 億美元之間，但還為時過早。我們仍處於戰略計劃的中期。現在準確說出最終金額還為時過早。

What I can tell you is that we're going to try to deliver a CapEx that's realistic and that provides growth for the company. Our CapEx for this year is higher than the CapEx for last year. And certainly, the one for next year is going to be higher than this year's CapEx. I can guarantee that to you.

我可以告訴你的是，我們將努力提供現實的資本支出，並為公司帶來成長。我們今年的資本支出高於去年的資本支出。當然，明年的資本支出將高於今年的資本支出。我可以向你保證。

And we need our plan and that's what we are trying to do. But we need to have an efficient and effective CapEx that brings about an increase to our production curve.

我們需要我們的計劃，這就是我們正在努力做的事情。但我們需要高效且有效的資本支出來提高我們的生產曲線。

And now talking about the latest news and licensing, it's just obvious that our strategy is to focus on the replacement of reserves. We've been declaring that President Magda, since she arrived, she's been talking about the replacement of reserves.

現在談論最新的消息和許可，很明顯我們的策略是專注於儲備的更換。我們一直在宣布，瑪格達總統自從她上任以來，就一直在談論儲備金的更換問題。

We are not comfortable with the previous strategic planning that shows a reduction as of 2030. So we're trying to revert that. So each drop of oil matters to us, and that's why we're going to analyze any opportunity that is economically feasible. It needs to bring about generation of value to the shareholders.

我們對先前顯示到 2030 年有所減少的策略規劃並不滿意。所以我們正在努力恢復這種情況。因此，每一滴石油對我們都很重要，這就是為什麼我們要分析任何經濟上可行的機會。它需要為股東帶來價值的產生。

About the equatorial margin, of course, the fewer opportunities we have in Brazil the greater the need to go international. Of course, if you want to supply the energy needs of the country, you need to go beyond our orders, and we will do that if necessary, with the purpose of catering to the domestic demand for electricity at least.

當然，關於赤道邊緣，我們在巴西的機會越少，走向國際的必要性就越大。當然，如果要供應國家的能源需求，就需要超出我們的訂單，有必要的話我們也會這樣做，目的是至少滿足國內的電力需求。

And I'd like to reinforce the importance of the equatorial margin. We'll move forward with the licensing process. It's a moment for exploration, not production, but our expectation is pretty high. We're pretty optimistic about the exploration and that we will have a positive production and about the licenses. We are also quite positive in that we are very close to being granted the licenses, and we feel optimistic that's as it should be, right?

我想強調赤道邊緣的重要性。我們將繼續推進許可流程。這是一個探索的時刻，而不是生產的時刻，但我們的期望相當高。我們對勘探、生產和許可證非常樂觀。我們也非常積極，因為我們非常接近獲得許可證，我們感到樂觀，這是應該的，對嗎？

And Victer, do you want to add anything?

維克特，你想補充什麼嗎？

(interpreted) Yes. Certainly, what I would like to add is that last year -- last week, we had a meeting -- and when we start talking about the behavior of CapEx, vis-a-vis the planned CapEx, we had this meeting, and we opened the curve. So when we analyze the CapEx you can analyze it as a whole or for specific periods, and we started opening up the curves platform by platform, including Buzios. And we saw that sometimes the physical progress is a much higher than the current progress, as Gabriel said, it could be seen as a gain of efficiency.

（解釋）是的。當然，我想補充的是，去年——上週，我們舉行了一次會議——當我們開始談論資本支出的行為，相對於計劃的資本支出時，我們舉行了這次會議，我們打開了曲線。因此，當我們分析資本支出時，您可以將其作為整體或特定時期進行分析，我們開始逐一平台開放曲線平台，包括 Buzios。而且我們看到有時候物理上的進步比現在的進步高很多，正如加布里埃爾所說，這可以看作是效率的增益。

So oftentimes, the fact that the CapEx is a bit lower, this does not always represent a delay related to the process. There is also a way to recompose the acceleration of the CapEx. But what we can see platform by platform is that we have the physical behavior of the platform. And of course, the deadlines are readjusted for each review of the business plan, but the behavior of the physical curve is above that of the financial curve.

通常，資本支出略低這一事實並不總是代表與流程相關的延遲。還有一種方法可以重新組合資本支出的加速。但我們可以逐一平台看到的是，我們擁有平台的物理行為。當然，每次審查商業計劃時都會重新調整截止日期，但實體曲線的行為高於財務曲線的行為。

Of course, this learning will be used in the future for new bidding rounds, because we effectively always attempts to have a physical behavior very close to that of the financial behavior, which influences the future prices and all that. And Director, Renata can also maybe add something about the meeting.

當然，這種學習將在未來用於新的投標輪次，因為我們實際上總是試圖使物理行為非常接近金融行為，這會影響未來的價格等等。雷納塔主任也許還可以補充一些有關會議的內容。

(interpreted) Good morning, and I want to thank everybody that's attending. like Victer said, the most important factor preventing us from realizing the CapEx was this mismatch between the financial payment with the physical milestones. We're adjusting that, and that will not get in the way of the first period.

（翻譯）早安，我要感謝所有出席的人。正如 Victer 所說，阻礙我們實現資本支出的最重要因素是財務支付與實際里程碑之間的不匹配。我們正在對此進行調整，這不會妨礙第一階段的進行。

Another thing that happened was that we postponed signing the contracts of the new projects, they're outside of the horizon or the plan. They're only for 2029 and 2030, and they will not impact the oil curve now.

發生的另一件事是我們推遲了新項目的合約簽署，它們超出了視野或計劃。它們僅適用於 2029 年和 2030 年，目前不會影響石油曲線。

Another aspect that had an impact on the CapEx was that we have a pool of rigs and this pool of rigs caters to the needs of the CapEx and OpEx and the allocation of these rigs occurs by analyzing the best results for the company. And we had planned much more specifically for the CapEx, but there was an opportunity around wealth maintenance, and we could get more oil now. So we reallocated that from CapEx to OpEx.

對資本支出產生影響的另一個方面是，我們有一個鑽機池，這個鑽機池滿足資本支出和營運支出的需求，並且透過分析公司的最佳結果來分配這些鑽機。我們為資本支出製定了更具體的計劃，但在財富維護方面存在機會，我們現在可以獲得更多石油。因此，我們將其從資本支出重新分配到營運支出。

Another thing that had an impact on the CapEx was the postponement of downtimes in refineries. We're having construction works at RNEST, and we're going to have to have some downtimes for RNEST and the -- in order for us not to have two downtimes at the refinery, we postponed the first downtime to coincide it with the beginning of the construction works for next year.

對資本支出產生影響的另一件事是煉油廠停機時間的延遲。我們正在 RNEST 進行建築工程，我們將不得不對 RNEST 進行一些停機時間，為了避免煉油廠出現兩次停機時間，我們推遲了第一次停機時間，使其與開始時間一致明年的建築工程。

So those were the reasons. There is no impact on the oil curve for this year. But the opposite, we're being able to anticipate Maria Quitéria as you all saw and it's already in Brazil, it has already gone through customs and it will probably go to the location in the next few days, and then it will be ready for anchoring and line connection so that we extract the first oil. And as Victer has said, Almirante Tamandaré is already on its way to Brazil, and we will make every effort to be able to anticipate or to move its production forward.

這就是原因。對今年的石油曲線沒有影響。但相反，我們能夠預見 Maria Quitéria，正如大家所看到的，它已經在巴西，已經通過海關，可能會在接下來的幾天內到達該地點，然後它就會準備好錨定和管線連接，以便我們提取第一批油。正如維克特所說，Almirante Tamandaré© 已經在前往巴西的途中，我們將盡一切努力能夠預測或推動其生產。

Basically, that's what I had. I don't know if you have any more comments.

基本上，這就是我所擁有的。不知道大家還有什麼意見嗎？

Luiz Carvalho.

路易斯·卡瓦略。

Congratulations on your results. I have a couple of questions. The first is for Fernando. So let's go back to the capital allocation point. I'd just like to talk about rebalancing M&As.

祝賀你的結果。我有幾個問題。第一個是費南多。那麼讓我們回到資本配置點。我只想談談併購再平衡的問題。

You're a minimal cash position that you mentioned before and your gross debt vis-a-vis dividends. As Director Victer mentioned, the company has four units effective that will be brought into the line in the next months. And the debt for them would need to go into the balance.

你之前提到過，你的現金部位是最低的，你的總負債相對於股利來說是最低的。正如維克特董事所提到的，該公司有四個有效裝置將在未來幾個月內投入使用。他們的債務需要計入餘額。

So if the company temporarily goes beyond its gross debt limit set by the planned $65 billion, would it still be possible to pay dividends according to your 45% policy in the cash flow? And how would that impact the possibility of paying out the extraordinary dividends from 2023.

那麼如果公司暫時超過了計畫設定的650億美元的總債務上限，是否還能按照你的現金流45%的政策來支付股利呢？這將如何影響 2023 年起支付特別股息的可能性。

My second question is about M&A's. You've discussed this, but I'd like to ask about RLAM. So how are the discussions going on a transaction there? Would you intend to have controls? Would you see a possibility of having a minority stake? Would you wait for the CADE for approval? And how do you deal with these M&A disbursements and the potential for dividend payouts?

我的第二個問題是關於併購的。你已經討論過這個問題，但我想問一下 RLAM 的問題。那麼那裡有關交易的討論進度如何？您打算進行控制嗎？您認為擁有少數股權的可能性嗎？您會等待CADE 批准嗎？您如何處理這些併購支出和股利支付的潛力？

Thank you, Luiz. Fernando will answer your first question. Go ahead, Fernando.

謝謝你，路易斯。費爾南多將回答你的第一個問題。繼續吧，費爾南多。

(interpreted) Thank you, Luiz. Well, it's important to clarify that ordinary dividends are mandatory. We have a policy that given the three conditions we set, which are having a positive accumulated result, debt under $65 billion and sustainability in the company, then dividends can be paid out.

（翻譯）謝謝你，路易斯。嗯，重要的是要澄清普通股息是強制性的。我們的政策是，只要滿足我們設定的三個條件，即累積業績為正、債務低於 650 億美元以及公司可持續發展，就可以支付股息。

But the policy is set by CA. So if we had an excess debt, then we could look into it and see what is the company's cash conditions. If this is a temporary situation or if it's structural, and then we can propose payments.

但政策是由CA制定的。因此，如果我們有超額債務，那麼我們可以對其進行調查，看看公司的現金狀況如何。如果這是暫時情況或結構性情況，那麼我們可以建議付款。

But Luis, I want to assure you that we don't expect our model, which is quite robust even with random simulations. None of it says that we would go over BRL65 billion in debt -- or excuse me, $65 billion in debt. So we feel very confident and saying that there's really no risk of not having ordinary dividend payouts.

但是路易斯，我想向你保證，我們不期望我們的模型，即使是隨機模擬，它也相當穩健。沒有任何內容表明我們的債務將超過 650 億雷亞爾——或者對不起，債務超過 650 億美元。所以我們非常有信心，說不派普通股利真的不存在風險。

For the remainder of the extraordinary payouts, we will need to study this during our strategic plan. That's when we'll have a better view of how much financing our investments require, what will be our availability for cash, how robust our risk models will be and that will ensure that the company is sustainable.

對於其餘的特別支出，我們需要在策略計劃中對此進行研究。到那時，我們將更了解我們的投資需要多少融資、我們可用的現金有多少、我們的風險模型有多穩健，這將確保公司的永續發展。

(interpreted) Hi, everyone. This is William. Thank you for being here. Regarding our refinery in Bahia, I'm happy that you mentioned its name because it's one of the most significant refineries in the country's history. So yes, we are speaking to the Patel group, about two things.

（譯）大家好。這是威廉.感謝您來到這裡。關於我們在巴伊亞的煉油廠，我很高興你提到了它的名字，因為它是該國歷史上最重要的煉油廠之一。所以，是的，我們正在與帕特爾小組討論兩件事。

First, a possible partnership. We don't know what percentage we would have with RLAM. And there's also a biorefinery plant that can be built next to the refinery. And that's a possible partnership.

首先，可能的合作關係。我們不知道 RLAM 的比例是多少。精煉廠旁邊還可以蓋一個生物精煉廠。這是一種可能的合作關係。

About the refinery itself, we're concluding our due diligence process, evaluation, of course, looking at economic viability, integration and the synergy with our refineries, so that in the right moment, we can make a proposal for the Mubadala Group. So we are concluding with our due diligence so that at the right time, we can make a proposal, and things are going well.

關於煉油廠本身，我們正在完成我們的盡職調查過程和評估，當然，我們也會考慮經濟可行性、與我們煉油廠的整合和協同作用，以便在適當的時候，我們可以為穆巴達拉集團提出建議。因此，我們正在盡職調查，以便在正確的時間提出建議，一切進展順利。

If I can add to that answer, the importance of always -- it's important to always refer back to something. It was the company that initiated us, they came to Petrobras with a possible joint business. But what does that mean? That means that any societal possibility can happen. Nothing is set in stone.

如果我可以補充這個答案，那就是始終回顧某些事情的重要性。是這家公司發起了我們，他們帶著可能的聯合業務來到巴西國家石油公司。但這意味著什麼？這意味著任何社會可能性都可能發生。沒有什麼是一成不變的。

What is important here is what will give us the best return for our shareholders, the best capital allocation. That is what matters.

這裡重要的是如何為我們的股東帶來最好的回報，最好的資本配置。這才是最重要的。

Regis Cardoso, XP.

雷吉斯·卡多佐，XP。

Hi, everyone. So I'll start with a question on RLAM. And I'd also like to ask what is the rational for Petrobras to buy it back? And would you need an approval from the CADE, considering that this refinery was listed as a divestment. I know that our refinery changed significantly.

大家好。我將從 RLAM 的問題開始。我還想問巴西國家石油公司回購它的理由是什麼？考慮到該煉油廠已被列為撤資項目，您是否需要獲得 CADE 的批准？我知道我們的煉油廠發生了重大變化。

It was upgraded. So if you could tell us a little bit more about what's changed and there's also a green refining process there that I think you can mention? Basically, I would like to ask about RLAM. And a different question would be about the integrity of the pre-salt. There are some platforms in the Tupi and Sapinhoa fields that have been producing for more than 10 years.

它被升級了。那麼，您能否告訴我們更多有關變化的信息，以及我認為您可以提及的綠色精煉流程？基本上我想問的是RLAM。另一個問題是關於鹽下的完整性。Tupi 和 Sapinhoa 油田的一些平台已經生產了 10 多年。

So if you could tell us a little bit about maintenance, system integrity, do you have a measurement, have you assessed how much the utilization rate has changed and what about maintenance or life extension. If you could tell us a little bit more about that?

因此，如果您能告訴我們一些有關維護、系統完整性的信息，您是否有測量，是否評估了利用率變化了多少以及維護或延長壽命的情況。您能告訴我們更多相關資訊嗎？

Thank you, Regis. I'm going to pass this question to Dr. William, and the rest of the team will answer your second question.

謝謝你，雷吉斯。我將把這個問題轉交給威廉博士，團隊的其他成員將回答你的第二個問題。

(interpreted) Okay. Let me begin before I pass it over to Fernando. So there was no material change. We -- RLAM is working with the same hardware. There were some investments, but this was just regular downtimes.

（解釋）好的。在把它交給費爾南多之前，讓我開始吧。所以沒有發生實質變化。我們 RLAM 正在使用相同的硬體。有一些投資，但這只是定期停機。

With the catalyst unit, that's the conversion unit that reduces residue and increases high-octane gasoline production and also dredging, early dredging in the channel that would allow bigger vessels to come in and makes the refinery more flexible.

透過催化劑裝置，轉化裝置可以減少殘留物並增加高辛烷值汽油的產量，並且還可以進行疏浚，早期疏浚通道可以允許更大的船隻進入，並使煉油廠更加靈活。

But there was no significant change. We continue with the same hardware. Concerning the rationale. I'll pass it over to Fernando, but I can say that we are working with some synergy, not only integrating refineries, but you know that there's a lot of synergy between petrochemicals and refining. Over to Fernando.

但沒有發生重大變化。我們繼續使用相同的硬體。關於道理。我會將其轉交給費爾南多，但我可以說，我們正在發揮一些協同作用，不僅整合煉油廠，而且您知道石化產品和煉油之間存在著許多協同作用。轉到費爾南多。

(interpreted) Yes, this synergy is very important to consider in our rationale. If these synergies are captured and if we understand that this is a good deal, we're talking about a profitable business that will generate results and value for our shareholders. And this is the goal since I was invited by Magda to start it.

（解釋）是的，在我們的基本原理中考慮這種協同作用非常重要。如果這些協同效應被捕捉到，並且如果我們明白這是一筆好交易，那麼我們談論的是一項獲利業務，將為我們的股東帶來成果和價值。這就是我受瑪格達邀請開始的目標。

We've always been business-minded and we're obviously looking at the social, environmental and governance aspects. But if it makes sense, if synergies are captured and if the right price is set, then why shouldn't we do it? Any deal, if it has the right ESG aspects, the right price and if it generates values -- value for our shareholders and for Brazilian society, we will analyze it.

我們一直具有商業頭腦，顯然我們正在關注社會、環境和治理方面。但如果它有意義，如果能夠產生協同效應並且設定了合適的價格，那麼我們為什麼不應該這樣做呢？任何交易，如果它具有正確的 ESG 方面、正確的價格，並且它是否產生價值——為我們的股東和巴西社會創造價值，我們都會對其進行分析。

(interpreted) Thank you for your question. I think that's a great question that allows us to explain a couple of things. Most of our production is in pre-salt layer. So this concern about the future of pre-salt is very important for the company, for our shareholders and the entire market. Pre-salt does not only contribute to the company's results but also to society and to our shareholders with special participations and royalties.

（翻譯）謝謝你的提問。我認為這是一個很好的問題，可以讓我們解釋一些事情。我們的大部分生產都在鹽下層進行。因此，這種對鹽下未來的擔憂對於公司、我們的股東以及整個市場都非常重要。鹽下不僅為公司業績做出貢獻，還透過特殊參與和特許權使用費為社會和我們的股東做出貢獻。

We have a very robust system to manage. Our reserves, the flexibility between the injection of air -- excuse me, water or gas, we're very close to the wells, but there are a few conditions that ensure that this will continue in the future. First, you mentioned Tupi, so we have very experienced partners. This discussion is not only happening within the company. We're discussing it with partners in this process. So this contribution is very important.

我們有一個非常強大的系統來管理。我們的儲量，注入空氣（對不起，水或天然氣）之間的靈活性，我們非常接近油井，但有一些條件可以確保這種情況在未來繼續下去。首先，您提到了Tupi，所以我們有非常有經驗的合作夥伴。這種討論不僅發生在公司內部。在此過程中我們正在與合作夥伴進行討論。所以這個貢獻是非常重要的。

We're reinforcing our teams with engineers. We have about 140 reserve engineers. We've contracted 30 more engineers. They are usually the people who analyze this entire process and the entire lifespan. And it takes about 10 years to train one. So we're investing to assess 4D seismic, and that's the traditional 3D seismic analysis with a fourth dimension, which is time.

我們正在用工程師來加強我們的團隊。我們有大約140名後備工程師。我們又聘用了 30 位工程師。他們通常是分析整個過程和整個生命週期的人。而培養一個人大約需要10年的時間。因此，我們正在投資評估 4D 地震，這是具有第四維度（即時間）的傳統 3D 地震分析。

So this allows you to have the best management of your reserves. But above all, we have something that is unique to the company's history. We have two executive managers, which are very experienced, who are reserve engineers. One of them is [Jamal], who is our Executive Manager. But we have something that is different. We have a CEO who is a reserve engineer, and that's very interesting.

因此，這可以讓您更好地管理您的儲備。但最重要的是，我們擁有公司歷史上獨一無二的東西。我們有兩位經驗豐富的執行經理，他們是後備工程師。其中之一是[賈馬爾]，他是我們的執行經理。但我們有一些不同的東西。我們有一位首席執行官，他是一名後備工程師，這非常有趣。

I'll tell you something. This week before we had a meeting and I brought in engineers from basically all of our areas with the CEO. It was a three-hour meeting and the level of details, our CEO is not simply a reserve engineer, but she actually worked in regulations, and it really demonstrated how much our teams are aligned in managing our reserves and how we will have more requirements there because in this meeting, we were very firm. It was long.

我告訴你一件事。本週，在我們召開會議之前，我邀請了來自基本上所有領域的工程師與執行長會面。這是一個長達三個小時的會議，細節水平很高，我們的執行長不僅僅是一名儲備工程師，她實際上是在法規方面工作的，這確實證明了我們的團隊在管理我們的儲備方面有多麼一致，以及我們將如何提出更多要求因為在這次會議上，我們的態度非常堅定。時間很長。

We had teams from Jamal and everyone else and the entire team went in deep into the topic. I don't think that in our history we have ever been as aligned as we are right now. So that makes us very confident with the teams we have, especially due to how skillful our leaders here are at that.

我們的團隊由賈馬爾和其他所有人組成，整個團隊都深入探討了這個主題。我認為，在我們的歷史上，我們從來沒有像現在這樣保持一致。因此，這讓我們對我們擁有的團隊非常有信心，特別是因為我們的領導者在這方面非常熟練。

So I'm very happy and proud to tell you that we have a very close technical alignment, especially in this area, which is essential for the company's future.

因此，我非常高興且自豪地告訴您，我們擁有非常密切的技術一致性，尤其是在這一領域，這對公司的未來至關重要。

(interpreted) Magda, this is William. I just want to add and say that she's also a -- she has a master’s in chemical engineering. So in different areas of the process, we have a lot of requirements, yes.

（翻譯）瑪格達，這是威廉。我只是想補充一點，她也是——她擁有化學工程碩士學位。所以在流程的不同領域，我們有很多要求，是的。

And she is also very detail-oriented in her requirements. It's not just an engineer who looks at a spreadsheet. She is an engineer that really understand things and is demanding, and that's important because it drives teams, and it shows them that they are being supervised from the top.

而且她的要求也非常注重細節。不僅僅是工程師查看電子表格。她是一位真正了解事物並且要求很高的工程師，這很重要，因為它可以驅動團隊，並向他們表明他們正在受到高層的監督。

Recently, she visited our COE, our integrated operations center, and she spoke to our representatives who are there 24/7. So each of our fields, each of our operations centers has an engineer 24/7 to manage that field and to extract as much as we can. And that, of course, will be the company's future.

最近，她參觀了我們的 COE，我們的綜合運營中心，並與我們在那裡的代表進行了 24/7 的交談。因此，我們的每個領域、每個營運中心都有一名工程師 24/7 來管理該領域並盡可能提取資料。當然，這將是公司的未來。

Caio Ribeiro, Bank of America.

卡約·裡貝羅，美國銀行。

Well, first, Petrobras. You were talking about some of the possible purchasing of assets of renewable energy and can you give us an idea about that? Has anything changed regarding the timing and the magnitude of the projects?

嗯，首先是巴西國家石油公司。您談到了一些可能購買再生能源資產的問題，可以為我們介紹一下嗎？專案的時間安排和規模有變化嗎？

And secondly, Petrobras clearly has a very robust process to approve new investments and clearly, we can see a greater appetite for accelerating and increasing investments and we were talking about the strategic plans. Do you plan to -- do you intend to implement any changes to this process, this investment process? Or do you consider the current process an ideal process?

其次，巴西國家石油公司顯然有一個非常健全的流程來批准新投資，並且顯然，我們可以看到對加速和增加投資的更大興趣，我們正在談論戰略計劃。您是否打算—您打算對這個流程、這個投資流程實施任何變更嗎？或者您認為目前的流程是理想的流程嗎？

Director Tolmasquim and Fernando can answer your questions.

托爾馬斯奎姆主任和費爾南多可以回答你的問題。

(interpreted) Thank you for your question, Caio. Well, Caio, as you know, we have two main type of investments, the M&As and the internally generated investments. Your question focuses more on M&As. When it comes to M&A, we're focusing on platforms, the M&As are currently much more connected to onshore wind power, albeit not exclusively. So the idea is to have investment platforms.

（翻譯）謝謝你的提問，Caio。嗯，Caio，如您所知，我們有兩種主要類型的投資，併購和內部產生的投資。你的問題更集中在併購方面。在併購方面，我們關注的是平台，目前的併購更與陸上風電相關，儘管不完全如此。所以我們的想法是擁有投資平台。

And what are those about? They're about finding partners, large-sized partners that are highly experienced with a project portfolio that may be underway or even greenfield projects or projects under construction so that we can establish a partnership. So the idea here is that it's 50% of Petrobras' participation and 50% from the partner, but that could be negotiated.

這些是關於什麼的？它們是為了尋找合作夥伴，大型合作夥伴，這些合作夥伴對可能正在進行的專案組合，甚至是綠地專案或在建專案經驗豐富，以便我們能夠建立合作夥伴關係。因此，這裡的想法是，巴西國家石油公司參與 50%，合作夥伴參與 50%，但這可以協商。

And to start this analysis, the Board of Directors have to approve the analysis of this opportunity. They have to approve the opportunity for it to be taken into the portfolio. And the Board has approved five potential platforms to be added to the portfolio and they amount to more than 3-gigawatt capacity.

要開始此分析，董事會必須批准對此機會的分析。他們必須批准將其納入投資組合的機會。董事會已批准將五個潛在平台添加到產品組合中，容量總計超過 3 吉瓦。

Our goal for the plan was to achieve a five-year period with 5 gigawatts in terms of the renewable projects. One of these five platforms after an authorization from the Board, we presented a nonbinding offer -- but as is common with these negotiations, we did not execute the agreement with them.

我們的計劃目標是在五年內實現 5 吉瓦的再生能源專案。在獲得董事會授權後，我們向這五個平台之一提出了一份不具約束力的要約，但正如這些談判中常見的那樣，我們沒有執行與他們的協議。

So now we have four being analyzed and under negotiation and I know that people expect us to communicate that, but it can only be communicated if we really close the deal, and that will be part of the process, of course. In addition to the four under analysis, there are other big companies and we're also thinking about bringing them into the portfolio.

現在我們有四個正在分析和談判，我知道人們希望我們傳達這一點，但只有當我們真正完成交易時才能傳達，當然，這將是流程的一部分。除了正在分析的四家公司之外，還有其他大公司，我們也考慮將它們納入投資組合。

So the M&A model we're working on is that one and in terms of organic investments or internally generated opportunities, we have a portfolio with 4 pilot projects and 10 projects that we're analyzing for opportunities, and they encompass CCOS, hydrogen and whatnot. So I mean, it's other types of projects, but I understand that this is not the focus of your question.

因此，我們正在研究的併購模式就是這樣一種模式，就有機投資或內部產生的機會而言，我們擁有一個包含4 個試點項目和10 個我們正在分析機會的項目的投資組合，它們包括CCOS、氫氣等。所以我的意思是，這是其他類型的項目，但我知道這不是你問題的重點。

And still on M&A, over the last few months, we've been seeing a certain improvement in the prices of energy in the market, both solar and wind, which makes it more interesting and easier for us to close these deals, if that's the case.

仍然在併購方面，在過去的幾個月裡，我們看到市場上的能源價格（包括太陽能和風能）有所改善，這使得我們更有趣、更容易完成這些交易，如果這是案件。

(interpreted) To move to the next question, so we don't intend to make any changes to the methodologies or to the governance, like the President said, actually, we've been an example of governance among the domestic companies, and we intend to maintain governance as it is. It's robust. It's adequate. It provides robustness to our materials and possible scenarios.

（解釋）進入下一個問題，所以我們不打算對方法論或治理進行任何改變，就像總統所說，實際上，我們一直是國內公司治理的一個例子，我們打算維持現狀的治理。它很堅固。已經足夠了。它為我們的材料和可能的場景提供了穩健性。

So we don't intend to make any changes to the governance at all. We want actually to keep on doing what we're doing.

因此，我們根本不打算對治理進行任何改變。我們實際上想繼續做我們正在做的事情。

What we did create at the company with the arrival of the new President, was a department that intends to improve the company's interfaces across its different departments. So that's our main focus. These interfaces and Victer is the officer in charge, he is Interim Director right now, and he is in charge of achieving this internal synergy.

隨著新總裁的到來，我們在公司創建了一個旨在改善公司不同部門之間介面的部門。這就是我們的主要焦點。這些接口，Victer 是負責人，他現在是臨時董事，他負責實現這種內部協同作用。

The interfaces need to be perfected if we want to be able to generate the required speed and energy to expedite our plans in this growth trajectory so that there is no drop in our oil reserves.

如果我們希望能夠產生所需的速度和能量來加快我們在這條成長軌跡上的計劃，從而使我們的石油儲量不會下降，則需要完善這些介面。

I agree. The integration process is following very strictly our internal governance principles. Of course, there's always opportunities for improvement in any organization, and that's what we permanently try to achieve.

我同意。整合過程非常嚴格地遵循我們的內部治理原則。當然，任何組織總有改進的機會，這就是我們永久努力實現的目標。

Lilyanna Yang, HSBC.

莉莉安娜楊，匯豐銀行。

I have three questions, if you allow me. The first one about the supply chain. Could you please share with us your perspective about the global supply chain and the need for local suppliers. What's the role of Petrobras in developing the domestic naval industry and guaranteeing more efficient deliveries at fair prices.

如果您允許的話，我有三個問題。第一個是關於供應鏈的。您能否與我們分享您對全球供應鏈和本地供應商需求的看法？巴西國家石油公司在發展國內海軍工業和保證以公平價格更有效率的交付方面發揮什麼作用？

And I understand that the company's focus moving forward would be more upstream-centered. But what are Petrobras' opportunities of investment in downstream and energy transition. You did touch upon fertilizers and generation of electricity, but petrochemicals or fuel distribution, for instance.

據我了解，公司未來的重點將更加以上游為中心。那麼巴西國家石油公司在下游和能源轉型方面的投資機會有哪些呢？您確實談到了化肥和發電，但例如石化產品或燃料分配。

And along the same lines, do you see any needs to changed the governance for the approval of acquisition processes, especially for -- due to the requirement of positive VPL for the sub projects, given that Petrobras just changed this internal regulation for the statutory committees that subsidize the administrative committee.

同樣，您是否認為需要改變收購流程審批的治理，特別是由於子項目需要積極的 VPL，因為巴西國家石油公司剛剛改變了法定委員會的內部規定資助行政委員會。

And the third and last question is if you expect to issue debts moving forward? Or do you intend to leave a room in the balance sheet for debts that come with the production platform so that your reference cap of $65 billion in terms of the raw debt is not exceeded? Those are my questions.

第三個也是最後一個問題是，您是否預期未來會發行債務？或者您打算在資產負債表中為生產平台附帶的債務留出空間，以便不超過原始債務 650 億美元的參考上限？這些都是我的問題。

Thanks. Director, Renata.

謝謝。導演，雷娜塔.

(interpreted) Concerning the supply market, first, I want to highlight that any company prefers to have local suppliers and suppliers that are close to them. This makes it much easier for us to have a relationship with our vendors, the possibility to be close to them. So we do intend to be closer to our suppliers and to understand their needs and difficulties so that we can adjust if necessary, our hiring formats so that we can add more and more domestic vendors to our database. And of course, we must always follow our governance principles, and it must be advantageous for Petrobras.

（解讀）關於供應市場，首先我想強調的是，任何企業都希望擁有本地供應商以及距離自己較近的供應商。這使我們更容易與供應商建立關係，並有可能與他們保持密切聯繫。因此，我們確實打算更接近我們的供應商，了解他們的需求和困難，以便我們可以在必要時調整我們的招聘方式，以便我們可以將越來越多的國內供應商添加到我們的資料庫中。當然，我們必須始終遵循我們的治理原則，這必須對巴西石油公司有利。

Otherwise, it won't make any sense. So we will work on developing this portfolio of suppliers as it's extremely favorable to have the suppliers close to us. We've been working with the prequalification of certain suppliers.

否則，它就沒有任何意義。因此，我們將致力於開發這個供應商組合，因為供應商離我們很近是非常有利的。我們一直在與某些供應商進行資格預審。

We've been working very closely with Director Spinelli concerning aspects related to governance. And we are trying to recover our market with some different hiring strategies to allow smaller companies to provide smaller packages until they become strong enough and big enough to get involved in bigger projects in the future. So yes, we do have some difficulty with suppliers, and it is not restricted to Brazil. We have problems related to suppliers abroad as well.

我們一直在與 Spinelli 總監就治理相關方面進行密切合作。我們正在嘗試透過一些不同的招募策略來恢復我們的市場，以允許較小的公司提供較小的套餐，直到它們變得足夠強大和足夠大，能夠在未來參與更大的專案。所以，是的，我們確實在供應商方面遇到了一些困難，而且不僅限於巴西。我們也存在與國外供應商相關的問題。

Yesterday, I had a meeting with the company, I have been having lots of meetings myself to understand the difficulties of our suppliers. And they said that after the war in Ukraine and now with the conflicts in the Middle East, the number of purchases from their customers has skyrocketed because other companies are having to develop their own infrastructure to support their demand since it's not catered to either by Ukraine or the Middle East. So the global market is quite busy. And in Brazil, we're trying hard to recover our suppliers.

昨天我和公司開了一個會，我自己也開了很多次會議來了解我們供應商的困難。他們表示，烏克蘭戰爭之後以及現在中東的衝突，客戶的採購數量激增，因為其他公司必須開發自己的基礎設施來支持他們的需求，因為烏克蘭也無法滿足這些需求或中東。所以全球市場相當繁忙。在巴西，我們正在努力恢復我們的供應商。

(interpreted) Well, that's a very good question because after COVID and after the crisis, like the war in the Ukraine, that had an impact on several suppliers that provided services to platforms abroad, the world started rethinking its global change and, of course, looking for a change that bring about lower risk to their supplies.

（解釋）嗯，這是一個非常好的問題，因為在新冠疫情和危機之後，例如烏克蘭戰爭，對一些為海外平台提供服務的供應商產生了影響，世界開始重新思考其全球變化，當然，尋找能夠降低供應風險的改變。

The Brazilian industry is based on a principle created by a law from 1997 that was celebrated in the first auction from 1999 that we should focus on local content. So it's not simply something that's up to the company to do but rather, it's regulated by law. And Petrobras has been managing that very effectively in terms of production development and for every subsea activity.

巴西工業的基礎是 1997 年頒布的一項法律所製定的原則，該原則在 1999 年的第一次拍賣中得到了慶祝，即我們應該關注本地內容。因此，這不僅僅是公司要做的事情，而是受法律監管的事情。巴西國家石油公司在生產開發和每項海底活動方面一直非常有效地管理這一點。

We have a very competitive subsea industry. Last week, we were discussing that with Renata and Sylvia talking about expanding the production capacity of flexible lines and adding new technologies in Brazil. And we do that in a way that's extremely advantageous, especially because our manufacturers are already exporting to other countries, not only flexible lines, but also manifolds downturn.

我們擁有非常有競爭力的海底產業。上週，我們與 Renata 和 Sylvia 討論了擴大巴西柔性生產線的產能並增加新技術。我們以一種極其有利的方式做到這一點，特別是因為我們的製造商已經向其他國家出口，不僅是靈活的生產線，而且是多方面的低迷。

Now it's recovering again, but of course, that is being observed in the industry as a whole. And a good example of a local content and local developments associated with the technology is [RICEP], which is a technology that was developed by CENPES at Petrobras applied to the E&P activities, which is hugely innovative that will allow us to have great gains in terms of reducing waste on top sides and platforms, and it's being done here in Brazil, a very disruptive technology developed by CENPES by engineered Passarelli that led the process.

現在它再次復甦，當然，整個行業都在觀察這種情況。與該技術相關的本地內容和本地開發的一個很好的例子是[RICEP]，這是由CENPES 在Petrobras 開發的技術，應用於勘探與生產活動，這是一項巨大的創新，將使我們在減少頂部和平台上的浪費，這項工作正在巴西進行，這是一項由 CENPES 開發的極具顛覆性的技術，由領導該過程的工程設計人員帕薩雷利 (Passarelli) 開發。

But fundamentally speaking, we are able to develop it very close to us here in Rio. So these are very positive examples. And this is not merely a requirement for us, but also a business strategy that major oil companies will adopt, especially in Brazil because in Brazil, we developed over the course of decades, a very competitive local industry.

但從根本上講，我們能夠在裡約熱內盧離我們很近的地方開發它。所以這些都是非常正面的例子。這不僅是對我們的要求，也是各大石油公司都會採取的商業策略，特別是在巴西，因為在巴西，我們經過幾十年的發展，發展了一個非常有競爭力的當地產業。

I'll pass it over to Fernando. Thank you, and he's going to tell us about that.

我會把它交給費爾南多。謝謝你，他會告訴我們這件事。

(interpreted) Okay. So as I said before, there are no changes in governance, metrics, foreseen. Obviously, we want to perfect our process, as we mentioned before, and this happens all the time. But in CapEx and OpEx, this is a company perspective. So in CapEx, we are trying to seek efficiency -- excuse me, in OpEx, we're trying to increase efficiency and in CapEx to get better returns on the capital we are allocating.

（解釋）好的。正如我之前所說，預期治理、指標不會改變。顯然，正如我們之前提到的，我們希望完善我們的流程，而這種情況一直在發生。但在資本支出和營運支出方面，這是公司的角度。因此，在資本支出方面，我們正在努力尋求效率——對不起，在營運支出方面，我們正在努力提高效率，在資本支出方面，我們正在努力提高我們分配的資本的回報。

So we are doing things by the book according to the best financial practices, and this goes through everything, OpEx, CapEx, purchases and whatever. About new paths forward I don't know if this question has been answered, but we want to find opportunities that have the right levels of return. If they do, we will pursue them. Our focus, as we've been seeing, is EP.

因此，我們依照最佳財務實務按章辦事，這貫穿一切，營運支出、資本支出、採購等等。關於新的前進道路，我不知道這個問題是否已經得到解答，但我們希望找到具有適當回報水準的機會。如果他們這樣做，我們將追捕他們。正如我們所看到的，我們的重點是 EP。

EP provides the results and -- it's with these results that we're going to have resources to do the energy transition that we need at the right time according to the development that our society needs and that companies are developing new technologies.

EP 提供了結果——正是有了這些結果，我們將擁有資源，根據我們社會需要的發展和公司正在開發的新技術，在正確的時間進行我們所需的能源轉型。

Rodrigo Almeida, Santander.

羅德里戈·阿爾梅達，桑坦德銀行。

I'd like to refer back to the topic of the last question and connects to maintaining the gross debt within limits and liability management. I'm referring back to that point of should Petrobras be more active in bonds and rolling out the debt bank and then that's expiring or coming to term in the next quarters. Are there any studies to do that for your gross debt?

我想回顧最後一個問題的主題，並將其與將總債務維持在限額內和責任管理有關。我指的是巴西國家石油公司是否應該在債券方面更加積極並推出債務銀行，然後在接下來的幾季到期或到期。是否有任何研究可以針對您的總債務進行此研究？

And also, I would like to understand what you're thinking when you assess M&As, are there any M&As that can bring any gross debt into the company? So for example, RLAM, we know that its corporate tax number has some gross debt between $5 billion and $6 billion, so how do you assess this kind of M&A if it is including a significant gross debt to your balance?

另外，我想了解您在評估併購時的想法，是否有任何併購會為公司帶來總債務？例如，RLAM，我們知道其公司稅號的總債務在 50 億至 60 億美元之間，那麼如果您的餘額中包含大量總債務，您如何評估此類併購？

And my next question is about the gas and power segment. I'd like to understand a bit more about how you are rebuilding your client portfolio in gas and electric power. So what should we expect for the next quarters?

我的下一個問題是關於天然氣和電力領域。我想多了解你們如何重建天然氣和電力領域的客戶組合。那麼我們對接下來的幾季應該期待什麼呢？

Thank you, Rodrigo. I'll answer your second question with Dr. Tolmasquim, and then Fernando will answer your first question. Go ahead, Tolmasquim.

謝謝你，羅德里戈。我將與托爾馬斯奎姆博士一起回答你的第二個問題，然後費爾南多將回答你的第一個問題。繼續吧，托爾馬斯奎姆。

(interpreted) Thank you, Rodrigo. Well, we had a reduction in the demand for gas in Brazil overall because there was a reduction in the use of thermal power. But this is now going the opposite way. We're seeing thermal plants being used, but we have a new reality now.

（翻譯）謝謝你，羅德里哥。嗯，由於火力發電的使用減少，巴西對天然氣的需求整體減少了。但現在情況正朝著相反的方向發展。我們看到熱電廠正在投入使用，但現在我們有了新的現實。

We currently have 15 gas suppliers competing with Petrobras, which is very different from what we had before. Despite all of that, we have a very aggressive policy to maintain our market. And despite having 15 competitors, we have 70% of the market. So we are competing freely.

目前我們有15家天然氣供應商與巴西國家石油公司競爭，這與我們以前的情況有很大不同。儘管如此，我們仍採取非常積極的政策來維持我們的市場。儘管有 15 個競爭對手，但我們擁有 70% 的市場份額。所以我們是自由競爭。

So how do we maintain this market? We created a new product. So in the second quarter of 2024, we created a premium for performance for our distribution companies. As we announced, this means that you have a discount of 10% on price if your consumption is above 60%. So with that, we were able to attract many distributors to have contracts with us.

那我們要如何維護這個市場呢？我們創造了一種新產品。因此，在 2024 年第二季度，我們為分銷公司創造了績效溢價。正如我們所宣布的，這意味著如果您的消費超過 60%，您可以享受 10% 的價格折扣。因此，我們能夠吸引許多經銷商與我們簽訂合約。

We had an interesting situation. I'm not going to mention anything -- any details, but there was a client that had a contract with us a long time ago, GME that they thought was advantageous. And now if they are buying from Petrobras, they would be having much lower prices than they had in this deal some time ago.

我們遇到了一個有趣的情況。我不會提及任何細節——任何細節，但有一個客戶很久以前就與我們簽訂了合同，他們認為 GME 是有利的。現在，如果他們從巴西國家石油公司購買，他們的價格將比前一段時間的交易低得多。

So our policy is to maintain our clients and maintain, of course responsible prices. The other policy we have is very aggressive. And our intention is to capture free consumers to this market. This has attracted the industry. We've announced a number of contracts with CSN, Gerdau.

因此，我們的政策是維護我們的客戶，當然也要維持負責任的價格。我們的另一項政策非常激進。我們的目的是吸引自由消費者進入這個市場。這引起了業界的關注。我們已經宣布了與 CSN、Gerdau 的多項合約。

I can't tell you names, but we have a very significant queue of major companies that are about to close a deal. We also have some perspectives, and again, I can't give you many details, but we are going to launch competitive products with cheaper gas like from ROTA 3 and so on. So this gives us a competitive advantage.

我不能告訴你名字，但我們有一長串即將完成交易的大公司。我們也有一些觀點，同樣，我無法向您提供很多細節，但我們將推出具有更便宜汽油的有競爭力的產品，例如 ROTA 3 等。所以這給了我們競爭優勢。

Regarding energy, so really, there are many thermal plants that were recently removed from the contract. So we're looking at the capacity tender or bid tender that the ministry has announced. And our aim is not only to recontract them but eventually, we hope to have a new thermal plant for this market.

關於能源，實際上，最近有許多熱電廠從合約中刪除。因此，我們正在研究該部已宣布的產能招標或投標招標。我們的目標不僅是重新承包它們，而且最終我們希望為這個市場建立一個新的熱電廠。

So we're looking at this carefully, and we have a lot of hope and expectations that this bid tender will happen, especially with the plants we already have built, we have a very big competitive advantage because a part of the investments have already gone through amortization. So we have a good possibility to be competitive in this bid tender. Thank you.

所以我們正在仔細考慮這個問題，我們對這次招標的發生抱有很大的希望和期望，特別是對於我們已經建成的工廠，我們有非常大的競爭優勢，因為一部分投資已經花掉了通過攤銷。因此，我們在本次投標中很有競爭力。謝謝。

Thank you, Tolmasquim. I'll pass it over to Director, Fernando, who will discuss your other questions.

謝謝你，托爾馬斯奎姆。我會將其轉交給費爾南多主任，他將討論您的其他問題。

(interpreted) Okay. So I think we have given some details on ideal cash levels. This is approved according to our strategic plan and according to the needs we may have due to how financeable projects are. I usually work with minimal cash or I have good projects that generate value for our shareholders or I need to distribute this as ordinary or extraordinary dividends. And also having idle cash in the company has a cost in availability. So this is not what we're seeking.

（解釋）好的。所以我認為我們已經給了一些關於理想現金水準的細節。這是根據我們的策略計劃以及我們因專案的融資情況而可能產生的需求而批准的。我通常用很少的現金工作，或者我有能為股東創造價值的好項目，或者我需要將其作為普通或特別股息分配。公司閒置現金也會產生可用性成本。所以這不是我們所尋求的。

About issuing debt, extending debt and advancing payments, this is what our managers have been looking at, and they've been awarded for it. So they're seeking opportunities that will make our debt come to the lowest level possible. We have the best spread in government bonds in the last years, we presented this in the company, and this is a part of our daily work. Our idea is to continue being efficient and recognized by the market.

關於發行債務、延長債務和提前付款，這是我們的經理一直在關注的問題，他們也因此獲得了獎勵。因此，他們正在尋找機會，使我們的債務降至盡可能低的水平。我們在過去幾年中擁有最好的政府債券利差，我們在公司中介紹了這一點，這是我們日常工作的一部分。我們的理念是持續高效並獲得市場認可。

Rodolfo Angele, JPMorgan.

魯道夫·安吉勒，摩根大通。

I'll ask a single question. I know we've been here for a long time. I just want to refer back to dividends again. We've mentioned several things here, but I just want to understand if I got it right.

我會問一個問題。我知道我們已經在這裡待了很長時間了。我只想再次提及股息。我們在這裡提到了幾件事，但我只是想了解我是否正確。

What I heard from you is that extraordinary dividends will be based on perception and the company's cash generation and that includes CapEx and your strategic plan. So whenever you have a better understanding of the strategic plan, you might announce extraordinary dividends.

我從您那裡聽到的是，非凡股息將基於看法和公司的現金產生能力，其中包括資本支出和您的策略計劃。因此，每當你對戰略計劃有更好的了解時，你可能會宣布非凡的股息。

What I want to be sure of is this, let's imagine that something happens and the company generates far more cash than was expected for any reason when that was not planned for. So that could be a situation in which you would have some space to pay extraordinary dividends. So is that a possibility? Can you really make an extraordinary payout at any moment?

我想確定的是，讓我們想像一下，發生了一些事情，公司產生的現金遠遠多於預期，無論出於何種原因，這是沒有計劃的。因此，在這種情況下，您可能有一些空間來支付特別股息。那麼有這種可能嗎？你真的可以隨時獲得非凡的支出嗎？

(interpreted) A decision on extraordinary payouts, as you mentioned, will depend on our future cash generation possibilities and our current cash, considering our investments and our strategic plans. If we find cash for it above what we need.

（解釋）正如您所提到的，關於特別支出的決定將取決於我們未來現金產生的可能性和我們當前的現金，並考慮我們的投資和策略計劃。如果我們找到的現金超出了我們的需要。

And again, I'd like to say that we do things by the book. So cash above what is necessary for a company has a cost and we're trying to be more efficient. So if we find any availability or any possibility or the possibility to make extraordinary payouts, then we will.

我想說，我們是照規矩辦事的。因此，超出公司所需的現金是有成本的，我們正在努力提高效率。因此，如果我們發現任何可用性或任何可能性或可​​能進行特別支出，那麼我們就會這樣做。

The most appropriate thing is to have a good strategical plan, a good volume that can reflect our strategic plan on the short term and then take these values, if possible as soon as we can. That means that we haven't ruled out an extraordinary dividend payout for 2024.

最合適的事情是有一個好的戰略計劃，一個好的數量，可以反映我們短期的戰略計劃，然後儘可能快地採取這些價值觀。這意味著我們不排除在 2024 年派發特別股息的可能性。

Bruno Amorim.

布魯諾·阿莫林.

I have two quick ones. First, referring back to the potential M&A with RLAM. You mentioned that you might see some synergy in these assets to what you do. If you could give us some more details on that, what synergies do you believe can happen? Would it be upstream with the current refining structure that you have?

我有兩個快的。首先，回顧一下與 RLAM 的潛在併購。您提到您可能會看到這些資產與您所做的事情有一些協同作用。如果您能為我們提供更多細節，您認為會產生什麼綜效？它會是你們目前的煉油結構的上游嗎？

And what is your current projected projection for next year? Licenses have been delayed by Ibama, and how much does that affect you for 2025? And when will Ibama go back to its regular pace so that we don't see any impact to your 2025 production?

您目前對明年的預測是多少？Ibama 推遲了許可證發放，這對您 2025 年的影響有多大？Ibama 何時才能恢復正常節奏，以免對您 2025 年的生產產生任何影響？

Director William can start, and Director of Victer can complement that.

威廉導演可以首發，導演維克特可以補充。

(interpreted) Thanks for your question. This is William. Well, there are several different synergies. I'm going to give you a typical example of a refinery that's close to us; it's Reduc.

（已翻譯）謝謝你的提問。這是威廉.嗯，有幾種不同的協同作用。我將舉一個離我們很近的煉油廠的典型例子；這是減少。

It has a lot of synergy, for instance, with Braskem exchanging raw materials, they are propene and polypropylene and cracker, there is a leftover of hydrogen, which supplements our hydrogen needs for refinement, especially for the production of gasoline and low-sulfur diesel.

它有許多協同效應，例如和Braskem交換原料，是丙烯、聚丙烯和裂解裝置，還有剩餘的氫氣，補充了我們煉油的氫氣需求，特別是生產汽油和低硫柴油。

So there's several different synergies in terms of logistics and at RLAM, for instance, there is also a synergy with Braskem and actually, more than that, there is a logistics synergy inside Petrobras, when we had RLAM, we used to leverage these synergies in exchanging byproducts during scheduled and unscheduled downtimes that would prevent us from leaving some markets without supplies in Bahia for instance, when they had a downtime, they would be supplied by other refineries.

因此，在物流方面存在多種不同的協同效應，例如，在RLAM，與Braskem 也存在協同效應，實際上，不僅如此，巴西國家石油公司內部也存在物流協同效應，當我們擁有RLAM 時，我們過去常常利用這些協同效應在計劃內和計劃外的停機期間交換副產品，這將阻止我們離開巴伊亞的一些市場而沒有供應，例如，當它們停機時，它們將由其他煉油廠供應。

So there are several different synergies across the refineries among other synergies. Another example before I give the floor to Fernando. At the GasLub where we have a PGM that will produce natural gas and C2+, which is a very important raw material for petrochemicals and that will give us the possibility to have a pad plant or maybe depending on our negotiations, maybe even expanding Braskem and Rio de Janeiro using these raw materials.

因此，除其他協同效應外，煉油廠之間還存在著幾種不同的協同效應。在我請費爾南多發言之前，還有一個例子。在 GasLub，我們有一個 PGM，可以生產天然氣和 C2+，這是石化產品的非常重要的原材料，這將使我們有可能建立一個墊廠，或者根據我們的談判，甚至可能擴大 Braskem 和 Rio de Janeiro 使用這些原材料。

Fernando, over to you.

費爾南多，交給你了。

(interpreted) Well, I think you covered it.

（解釋）嗯，我想你已經涵蓋了。

Thank you. Victer?

謝謝。維克特？

(interpreted) Well, the question about Ibama is very important. First, I want to highlight the efforts of Director, Clarice and her team and I've been monitoring that for a long time. The licensing process actually has a very robust, very competent team [Faber], Daniel Lima, and Director Clarice are frequently managing that very closely with Ibama. President Magda, she had a meeting with directors, Clarice and Sylvia recently in Brasilia to expedite not in E&P except for the license of the equatorial margin, which is something that we have to achieve.

（解釋）嗯，關於伊巴馬的問題非常重要。首先，我想強調克拉麗斯主任和她的團隊所做的努力，我長期以來一直在關注這一點。許可流程實際上有一個非常強大、非常有能力的團隊 [Faber]、Daniel Lima 和 Clarice 總監經常與 Ibama 密切管理。瑪格達總統，她最近在巴西利亞與董事克拉麗斯和西爾維亞舉行了會議，除了赤道邊緣的許可之外，除了我們必須實現的目標之外，加快勘探與生產的進程。

But basically, for the -- it's not licenses, but it's actually authorizations that the environmental licensing agency requires you to have so that you can be sure that the process is being strictly followed.

但基本上，這不是許可證，而是環境許可機構要求您擁有的實際的授權，以便您可以確保嚴格遵循該流程。

There was a strike at Ibama and that impacted our curve this year by 2%. However, this 2% impact is being offset within our margin, which is 2.8 billion barrels of oil equivalent. So it's absorbed by our margin. And of course, Ibama is working normally, and it will produce positive results. We will continue to collaborate with them for H2 and for the next years.

Ibama 發生了罷工，今年我們的曲線受到了 2% 的影響。然而，這 2% 的影響正在我們的利潤（28 億桶石油當量）內被抵銷。所以它被我們的利潤吸收了。當然，伊巴馬正在正常工作，並且會產生積極的成果。我們將在下半年和未來幾年繼續與他們合作。

Yesterday, at the end of the day, we were told that we were given the license for the Anita Garibaldi FPSO that was something that was among our liabilities and Director of Clarice was working on it, but the Sepetiba is still pending. And we also received important authorizations, the expansion of the production capacity of Almirante Barroso vessel that was issued by Ibama.

昨天，在一天結束時，我們被告知我們獲得了 Anita Garibaldi FPSO 的許可證，這是我們的責任之一，Clarice 總監正在處理它，但 Sepetiba 仍在等待中。我們也獲得了伊巴馬頒發的重要授權，即擴大巴羅佐海軍上將號船隻的產能。

So yes, it does have an impact. It was discussed by our Investor Relations area, but it's absorbed by our plans, and we do expect to see these issues solved very soon, not only those related to Ibama but also to the national oil agency. Because it's not impacting only Petrobras and its investors, but also society. Because, of course, if a field is not working, you have a delay in the payment of royalties, from the federal government to the states and municipalities involved.

所以是的，它確實有影響。我們的投資者關係區域對此進行了討論，但它已被我們的計劃吸收，我們確實希望看到這些問題很快得到解決，不僅是與伊巴馬有關的問題，而且還與國家石油機構有關。因為它不僅影響巴西國家石油公司及其投資者，也影響社會。當然，因為如果某個領域不起作用，從聯邦政府到相關州和市政府的特許權使用費支付就會延遲。

Director of Clarice, would you like to add to that?

克拉麗斯主任，您想補充嗎？

(interpreted) Sure. Good afternoon. As you probably know, Ibama has been working on that since January this year between the beginning of the process and the strike itself. And during that entire period, Petrobras has been given 25 licenses and authorizations in spite of the strike. Out of these 25 authorizations and licenses, 8 were related to production.

（解釋）當然可以。午安.正如您可能知道的那樣，自今年一月以來，從流程開始到罷工本身，伊巴馬一直在努力解決這個問題。在此期間，儘管發生了罷工，巴西國家石油公司仍獲得了 25 份許可證和授權。在這 25 項授權和許可中，有 8 項與生產相關。

So as a result of very present administration in a close relationship with Ibama, we were able to acquire or to be given a series of licenses during this period.

因此，由於現任政府與伊巴馬關係密切，我們能夠在此期間獲得或獲得一系列許可證。

The Ministry of Innovation and Management of Public Services submitted a new proposal to the Ibama representatives when they're analyzing them in their meetings. And now we know that nine big groups inside Ibama have already approved the proposal. So I have no doubt that this movement had an impact on the production of not only Petrobras, but the entire production chain of Brazil.

當伊巴馬代表在會議上分析這些提案時，創新和公共服務管理部向他們提交了一份新提案。現在我們知道伊巴馬內部的九個大團體已經批准了該提案。所以我毫不懷疑，這項運動不僅對巴西國家石油公司的生產產生了影響，也對巴西的整個生產鏈產生了影響。

But in addition to working on these processes, we're also working with the government and the results of the meetings that will be completed by the end of the day today. And we believe that we'll go back to normalcy with a huge number of processes that we will have to solve what Petrobras acquired or was given 25 licenses as a result of the involvement of all of the departments of Petrobras.

但除了處理這些流程之外，我們還與政府合作，並在今天結束前完成會議的結果。我們相信，由於巴西國家石油公司所有部門的參與，我們將透過大量流程恢復正常，我們將必須解決巴西國家石油公司獲得或獲得的 25 個許可證的問題。

Monique Greco, Itau BBA.

莫妮克‧格雷科 (Monique Greco)，伊塔烏 BBA。

I'm going to ask one question since it's pretty late. It's a follow-up to Tolmasquim's answer about the gas policy. We've been seeing lots of statements in the media about this perception about the gas prices being high in Brazil and an expectation for a structural reduction in the gas prices in Brazil.

我要問一個問題，因為已經很晚了。這是托爾馬斯奎姆關於天然氣政策的回答的後續。我們在媒體上看到很多關於巴西天然氣價格高企的看法以及巴西天然氣價格結構性下降的預期的聲明。

My question is, what has the company been doing? And what can we expect to see included in the next business plan? What are the initiatives towards trying to bring down the gas prices like increasing supply and beyond ROTA 3 involving the reduction of the reinjection levels or a search for new sources of supply in Bolivia for instance or rediscussing the tariffs offered to the partners, which of these initiatives are being discussed internally, please?

我的問題是，公司一直在做什麼？我們期望在下一個商業計劃中看到什麼？嘗試降低天然氣價格的措施有哪些，例如增加供應和超越 ROTA 3，包括降低迴注水平或在玻利維亞尋找新的供應來源，或重新討論向合作夥伴提供的關稅，其中哪些請問內部正在討論倡議嗎？

Tolmasquim?

托爾馬斯奎姆？

(interpreted) That's a great question. First, let me say that all of the changes to the gas prices, they're based on the gas cost of opportunity. So a structural way of reducing the gas prices would be to increase the supply of cheaper gas. And you can do that by increasing the domestic supply, which is the case of ROTA 3, where [LARIA] project and so on and so forth, those are internal ways of increasing the offer.

（解釋）這是一個很好的問題。首先，我要說的是，天然氣價格的所有變化都是基於天然氣機會成本的。因此，降低天然氣價格的結構性方法是增加更便宜的天然氣供應。你可以透過增加國內供應來做到這一點，這就是 ROTA 3 的情況，其中 [LARIA] 項目等等，這些都是增加報價的內部方式。

And another way you mentioned would be to import gas. And for that, we'd have three possibilities. There's gas from Colombia. That's a possibility. And since Colombia imports gas, it's not clear that we'll be able to import it from them, but it is possible routes.

你提到的另一種方式是進口天然氣。為此，我們有三種可能性。有來自哥倫比亞的天然氣。這是有可能的。由於哥倫比亞進口天然氣，目前尚不清楚我們是否能夠從他們那裡進口天然氣，但這是可能的路線。

There is Bolivia, but they have the reserves. So it depends on whether we'll be able to increase discovery and production over there. And there's a third possibility, which is Argentina, which is very interesting in terms of potentiality, especially because we already have a pipeline gas ball, and there is a connection between Argentina and Bolivia.

還有玻利維亞，但他們有儲備。因此，這取決於我們是否能夠增加那裡的發現和生產。還有第三種可能性，那就是阿根廷，就潛力而言非常有趣，特別是因為我們已經有了管道氣球，而且阿根廷和玻利維亞之間有連結。

And of course, if we want to increase the gas volume significantly, we have to complete the investments that they're planning to make in Argentina. But certainly, they have a good potentiality. Argentina is the world's second largest shale gas reserves. So that could benefit us. So I could say that in the short term, I see these two possibilities and increasing the internal supply ROTA 3 3 is now going into operation.

當然，如果我們想大幅增加天然氣產量，我們就必須完成他們計劃在阿根廷進行的投資。但可以肯定的是，他們有很好的潛力。阿根廷頁岩氣儲量位居世界第二。所以這可以使我們受益。所以我可以說，在短期內，我看到了這兩種可能性，增加內部供應 ROTA 3 3 現在正在運作。

And maybe -- and we've been discussing that but maybe bringing gas from Argentina.

也許——我們一直在討論這個問題，但也許從阿根廷進口天然氣。

So I believe that these would be a few possibilities for us to structurally lower gas prices in Brazil. As a side comment, there has been a significant reduction. We've reduced the gas prices by 25% last year, more than 25%, partially due to the reduction in the Brent price, but also partially because of the fact that we have a better structure to supplying more competitive gas.

因此，我相信這些是我們從結構上降低巴西天然氣價格的幾種可能性。作為附帶評論，數量已大幅減少。去年我們將天然氣價格降低了 25%，超過 25%，部分原因是布蘭特原油價格下降，部分原因是我們擁有更好的結構來供應更具競爭力的天然氣。

Jorge Gabrich, Scotiabank.

豪爾赫·加布里奇，豐業銀行。

My question is about the Namibia assets. I'd like to understand what's the minimum share that Petrobras could consider, given that we have seen a lot of discussion about -- discussions about joining this acquisition with a partner where what would be the investment program if the offer is successful? And is there any asset in the region that you are considering for that region as well, another asset.

我的問題是關於納米比亞的資產。我想了解巴西國家石油公司可以考慮的最低份額是多少，因為我們已經看到了很多關於與合作夥伴加入此次收購的討論，如果要約成功，投資計劃是什麼？您正在考慮為該地區提供其他資產嗎？

Fernando?

費爾南多？

(interpreted) Thank you, Jorge, for the last question. So we do not discuss specific cases as is the case here. What I can guarantee to you is that Petrobras is interesting -- interested in accessing any exploration possibilities. Exploration is not the same as production.

（翻譯）謝謝喬治提出最後一個問題。所以我們不像這裡的情況那樣討論具體情況。我可以向您保證的是，巴西國家石油公司很有趣——有興趣獲得任何勘探的可能性。探索與生產不同。

But of course, whenever we can explore new possibilities, we'll always consider them so that we can search for good deals and increase the value delivered to our shareholders. And of course, we'll only join the deals that are adequate that create synergy and value for the company.

但當然，每當我們可以探索新的可能性時，我們都會考慮它們，以便我們可以尋找好的交易並增加為股東帶來的價值。當然，我們只會加入足以為公司創造綜效和價值的交易。

Thank you, Fernando. Thank you for attending. And now we're officially closing the Q&A session. If there are any additional questions, our team will be pleased to answer all of them. I'll give the floor to Fernando for your final comments.

謝謝你，費爾南多。感謝您的出席。現在我們正式結束問答環節。如果還有任何其他問題，我們的團隊將很樂意回答所有問題。我將請費爾南多發表您的最後評論。

(interpreted) Thank you to all of the directors available here and everyone who participated in this earnings call, especially our viewers, analysts, investors, reporters and all of society. Our goal is to become better and better and increasingly relevant for society, and that includes shareholders, stakeholders and civil society overall.

（解釋）感謝在場的所有董事以及參加本次財報電話會議的所有人，特別是我們的觀眾、分析師、投資者、記者和整個社會。我們的目標是變得越來越好，並與社會（包括股東、利害關係人和整個公民社會）越來越相關。

I would really like to count on you. I know that your coverage is very important. Your opinion is very important. So if you have any question in mind, our team will be available to answer and I'm also available for anything you might need if you have any questions and contributions.

我真的很想依靠你。我知道您的報道非常重要。您的意見非常重要。因此，如果您有任何疑問，我們的團隊將隨時為您解答，如果您有任何問題和貢獻，我也可以為您提供任何可能需要的協助。

Thank you. Enjoy your Friday and have a good weekend.

謝謝。享受你的星期五並度過一個愉快的周末。

Thank you. This presentation is available on our Investor Relations website, and this webcast will soon be available as well. Thank you. Have a good day and a great weekend.

謝謝。該演示文稿可在我們的投資者關係網站上獲取，並且該網絡廣播也將很快推出。謝謝。祝你有美好的一天和愉快的周末。

Portions of this transcript that are marked (interpreted) were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

此文字記錄中標記（翻譯）的部分是由現場通話中的口譯員說出的。口譯員由贊助本次活動的公司提供。