巴西石油 (PBR.A) 2003 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Petrobras Conference Call to discuss the Q4 Results.

歡迎參加巴西國家石油公司電話會議，討論第四季度業績。

Today with us at Petrobras Head Office we have Mr. Jose Sergio Gabrielli Chief Executive Office and Investor Relations Director and his staff. At this time I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Raoul Alberto de Campos Investor Relations Executive Manager of Petrobras who has some additional comments.

今天，首席執行官兼投資者關係總監 Jose Sergio Gabrielli 先生及其員工來到巴西國家石油公司總部。現在，我想將會議轉交給巴西國家石油公司投資者關係執行經理 Raoul Alberto de Campos 先生，他還有一些補充意見。

Please go ahead Mr. Raoul.

請繼續，拉烏爾先生。

Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our conference call to discuss the Q4 and full-year 2003 results. We have a simultaneous webcast on the internet that can be accessed at the site www.petrobras.com/br/ir/english. Additionally on the webcast registration screen you may download and print the presentation and download the financial market report.

早上好，女士們，先生們。歡迎參加我們的電話會議，討論 2003 年第四季度和全年業績。我們在互聯網上有同步網絡廣播，可以通過網站 www.petrobras.com/br/ir/english 訪問。此外，在網絡廣播註冊屏幕上，您可以下載並打印演示文稿以及下載金融市場報告。

Before proceeding let me mention that the forward-looking statements are being made under the safe harbor of the Securities Legislation Reform Act of 1996. Actual performance could differ materially from those anticipated in any forward-looking comments or as the result of macro economic conditions, market risks and other factors.

在繼續之前，我要提一下，前瞻性陳述是根據 1996 年《證券立法改革法案》的安全港作出的。實際表現可能與任何前瞻性評論中的預期或宏觀經濟條件的結果存在重大差異，市場風險等因素。

Finally, let me mention that this conference call will discuss Petrobras' results prepared in accordance with Brazilian GAAP. At this moment we are unable to discuss any questions related to US GAAP results.

最後，我要提一下，本次電話會議將討論巴西國家石油公司根據巴西公認會計準則編制的業績。目前我們無法討論與美國公認會計準則結果相關的任何問題。

The conference call will be conducted by our CFO and Investor Relations Director Mr. Jose Sergio Gabrielli de Azevedo. He will comment on the Company's operating and financial highlights and the main events during this quarter. Afterwards he will be available to answer any questions you may have. Mr. Gabrielli please begin.

電話會議將由我們的首席財務官兼投資者關係總監 Jose Sergio Gabrielli de Azevedo 先生主持。他將評論公司的運營和財務亮點以及本季度的主要事件。之後，他將回答您的任何問題。請加布里埃利先生開始。

Good morning everybody. I will start on slide number 1 where we are trying to show some of the pricing policy that we used in 2003.

大家早上好。我將從第 1 號幻燈片開始，我們試圖展示 2003 年使用的一些定價政策。

As you can see in the first graph on the slide the green line shows the average Brent price during 2002 and 2003. The blue line represents the Brazilian average realization price in Reals translated into dollars according to the Brazilian exchange rate. The red line is [indiscernible] that's trying to show the combination of the US average prices for oil products weighted by the volumes sold in Brazil.

正如您在幻燈片的第一張圖中所看到的，綠線顯示了2002 年和2003 年期間的平均佈倫特原油價格。藍線代表了根據巴西匯率換算成美元的巴西平均實現價格（以雷亞爾為單位）。紅線[難以辨認]試圖顯示美國石油產品平均價格與巴西銷售量加權的組合。

This graph shows that in the Q3 2003 and Q4 2003 we kept a stable relationship between our prices and the [indiscernible] mix.

該圖顯示，在 2003 年第三季度和 2003 年第四季度，我們的價格和[音頻不清晰]組合之間保持著穩定的關係。

In the first quarter we had some difference, we could not follow the international increase in prices during the War period when we had a very high peak in the price of oil. But we kept during the year a stable relationship with our oil prices in line with international prices.

第一季度我們有一些差異，我們無法跟上戰爭時期國際油價的上漲，當時石油價格達到了非常高的峰值。但這一年我們的油價與國際價格保持了穩定的關係。

On the second part of the slide we show the difference between the quarterly average exchange rate and the end of the period exchange rates. This is important because part of our operations are in Reals and part of our debt in some of stock levels are measured in dollars.

在幻燈片的第二部分，我們顯示了季度平均匯率和期末匯率之間的差異。這很重要，因為我們的部分業務以雷亞爾計算，而我們某些庫存水平的部分債務則以美元衡量。

The difference between the average and the end of year rate will cause some change in the results.

平均率和年末率之間的差異會導致結果發生一些變化。

To compare for example the average rate in 2003 with the average exchange rate of 2002 we have a 5% depreciation of the Brazilian Real. However, when you compare the end of the period exchange rate at the end of 2002 and the end of 2003 we have an appreciation of 18% of Real.

例如，將 2003 年的平均匯率與 2002 年的平均匯率進行比較，我們發現巴西雷亞爾貶值了 5%。然而，當您比較 2002 年底和 2003 年底的期末匯率時，我們發現雷亞爾升值了 18%。

Comparing the end of period rates we had appreciation of the Real and comparing average rates we have depreciation of Reals.

比較期末利率，我們看到雷亞爾升值，比較平均利率，我們看到雷亞爾貶值。

The average rates applied to [indiscernible] variables and end of the period rate applied to stock variables.

平均利率適用於[音頻不清晰]變量，期末利率適用於庫存變量。

Comparing the year with the fourth quarter in relation to both quarters, we see that during the average 2002 in relation to 2003 we have a 5% depreciation. However in relation to the last quarter of 2003 in relation to Q3 2003 we have a small appreciation of the Real.

將今年與第四季度的兩個季度進行比較，我們發現 2002 年與 2003 年相比，平均貶值了 5%。然而，相對於 2003 年最後一個季度（即 2003 年第三季度），雷亞爾略有升值。

The next slide number 2 tries to show the behavior of the production and sales in the Brazilian market in the [national] productions. In the upper graph of the slide we can see that the first quarter of '03 we had a reduction in our domestic sales volume as a result of the adjustment of the Brazilian economy and as a result of the higher national prices and domestic prices. After the first quarter of '03 on until Q4 '03 we have an increase in our domestic sales volume. We have increased our production and comparing Q1 to the Q4 we had in the Q4 1.763 million barrels a day of sales, compared to 1.657 million barrels in Q1 2003.

下一張幻燈片 2 試圖展示[國家]產品在巴西市場的生產和銷售行為。在幻燈片的上圖中，我們可以看到，03年第一季度，由於巴西經濟的調整以及國內價格和國內價格的上漲，我們的國內銷量有所減少。從 03 年第一季度到 03 年第四季度，我們的國內銷量有所增加。我們增加了產量，並將第一季度與第四季度相比，第四季度的日銷量為 176.3 萬桶，而 2003 年第一季度的日銷量為 165.7 萬桶。

The green line shows our domestic production. We have an increase in the production for the first quarter of '03. We had some problems, stock issues and maintenance stock [indiscernible] during the year that kept our production stable with a small reduction in the last quarter of the year.

綠線顯示我們的國內生產。我們 03 年第一季度的產量有所增加。我們在這一年中遇到了一些問題、庫存問題和維護庫存[音頻不清晰]，這使我們的生產保持穩定，但在今年最後一個季度略有減少。

In the bottom part of this slide you can see the impact of the consolidation of various [indiscernible] actually but the [indiscernible] is our numbers in the second quarter of 2003.

在這張幻燈片的底部，您實際上可以看到各種[音頻不清晰]合併的影響，但[音頻不清晰]是我們 2003 年第二季度的數字。

Slide number three tries to reconcile the difference between the net income that we had in 2002 and the net income in 2003. In 2002 we had R$8.098b of net income that increased to R$17.795b at the end of 2003. Our main cause for this increase in profit is the increase in our net operating revenues.

第三張幻燈片試圖調和 2002 年淨收入與 2003 年淨收入之間的差異。2002 年，我們的淨收入為 R$8.098b，到 2003 年底增加到 R$17.795b。利潤的增加就是我們淨營業收入的增加。

Net operating revenues that increased as a result of the increase in production, we had a 12% increase in production from one year to another year. 4% increase in Brazilian production and most of our increase in production comes from the corporation [indiscernible] in our numbers.

淨營業收入因產量增加而增加，我們的產量逐年增加了 12%。巴西產量增長了 4%，而我們產量的增長大部分來自我們數字中的公司[音頻不清晰]。

We have an increase of around 100,000 barrels a day of sales, total sales of the Company. About 4% of our total sales in volumes, regardless of the reduction of our domestic sales.

我們公司的總銷量每天增加約100,000桶。儘管國內銷量有所減少，但銷量仍占我們總銷量的 4% 左右。

[indiscernible] that's important to explain the net operating revenues is the increase in the Brent price, the increase of our average realization price. We had a 16% increase in the Brent price, that's impacted the oil products and our average realization price was [indiscernible] 48% increase in average realization price.

[音頻不清晰]解釋淨營業收入的重要因素是布倫特原油價格的上漲，即我們平均實現價格的上漲。布倫特原油價格上漲了 16%，這對石油產品產生了影響，我們的平均變現價格[難以辨別]平均變現價格上漲了 48%。

We also had in 2003 as I mentioned an average depreciation of the Real and an increase in production. We had also an increase in our cost of goods sold, 34% increase in the Government participation in Brazil as a result of 3% increase in our production. The total value of Government participation increased.

正如我提到的，2003 年我們也經歷了雷亞爾的平均貶值和產量的增加。我們的銷售成本也有所增加，由於我們的產量增加了 3%，巴西政府的參與度也增加了 34%。政府參與總價值增加。

We had an inclusion of new commercial fields that were included in participation in Brazil [indiscernible].

我們納入了巴西參與的新商業領域[音頻不清晰]。

We had also an increase in the value of our imports regardless of the reduction in the volume of imports we have increased in the value that we pay for our imports as a result of higher pricing.

儘管進口量減少，但我們的進口價值也有所增加，由於定價較高，我們為進口支付的價值也有所增加。

We had an increase in our lifting costs. The explanation of this is the cost of goods sold.

我們的起重成本增加了。對此的解釋是銷售商品的成本。

The first thing that is important to my mind is that we had, as I mentioned, gains from the foreign exchange FX corrections. We have in our stock variable [indiscernible] our debt. We have again gains as a result at the end of the period, we have had gains of 18% in the appreciation of Reals at the end of the period.

對我來說最重要的事情是，正如我提到的，我們從外匯調整中獲得了收益。我們的股票變量[無法辨別]中有我們的債務。期末我們再次獲得收益，雷亞爾升值幅度達到 18%。

Also important to highlight that we had R$2.857b of increase in our extraordinary items, on the impact of our net income.

同樣重要的是要強調的是，我們的非常項目增加了 2.857b 雷亞爾，這對我們的淨利潤產生了影響。

The next slide, number 4 shows the impact of these extraordinary items into our net operating revenues.

下一張幻燈片（第 4 號）顯示了這些特殊項目對我們淨營業收入的影響。

Our net income was R$17.795b but we had as an extraordinary items our contractual losses and contingencies with Energy Businesses R$2.123b. Adjustment to market value of gas turbines R$330m. Contractual loss with the oil pipeline in Ecuador with OCP Transport Services R$293m, Liquidation effect of the exchange of hedge in EM of R$198m and the net provision related to social security notifications in relation to third parties that supply [work force] to the Company R$160m.

我們的淨收入為 R$17.795b，但作為特殊項目，我們與能源業務的合同損失和意外開支為 R$2.123b。燃氣輪機市值調整 3.3 億雷亞爾。 OCP Transport Services 與厄瓜多爾石油管道的合同損失為2.93 億雷亞爾，新興市場對沖交易的清算影響為1.98 億雷亞爾，以及與向[勞動力]供應的第三方相關的社會保障通知相關的淨準備金公司1.6億雷亞爾。

We had a provision for financial exposure in our Therm o-plants / Ship or Pay of R$171m. Our net present value of the provision for the abandonment of wells now according to the accounting procedures that we started in January 2003.

我們為 Therm o-plants/Ship or Pay 的財務風險準備金為 1.71 億雷亞爾。我們現在根據 2003 年 1 月開始的會計程序計算廢棄油井準備金的淨現值。

[indiscernible] that our net income without extraordinary items would be R$20.6b in relation to R$70.7b.

[音頻不清晰]我們不計特殊項目的淨收入將為 R$20.6b，相對於 R$70.7b。

It is worth highlighting that we had a savings on our tax payments due to the provision that we made for interest on loan capital that reduced our tax expenditures.

值得強調的是，由於我們為貸款資本利息提供的準備金減少了我們的稅收支出，因此我們節省了納稅。

Slide number 5 shows the relationship between our net income in Q3 '03 and Q4 '03. We had a reduction of our net income from R$5.361b to R$3.021b. This reduction can be explained by a reduction in oil production. We had a reduction of around 2%, a little bit more than 2% of our production from 2068 million barrels a day to 2023 million barrels.

第 5 張幻燈片顯示了我們 03 年第三季度和 03 年第四季度的淨利潤之間的關係。我們的淨利潤從 R$5.361b 減少到 R$3.021b。這種減少可以用石油產量的減少來解釋。我們的產量減少了約 2%，略高於 2%，從每天 20.68 億桶減少到 20.23 億桶。

Also we had as an important variable that explains the increase in our net revenues, a reduction on the net operating costs on the cost of goods sold. This reduction of the cost of goods sold is mainly due to a 6% fall in the Government participation, which corresponds to 17% of the cost of goods sold and due to 2% decrease in the oil production as a result of [indiscernible] from September to November '03. Also, as a result of decrease in expenses related to the restructuring projects.

此外，我們還有一個解釋淨收入增加的重要變量，即銷售商品成本的淨運營成本的減少。銷售商品成本的下降主要是由於政府參與度下降了 6%，相當於銷售商品成本的 17%，以及[音頻不清晰]導致石油產量下降了 2%。 2003 年 9 月至 11 月。此外，由於與重組項目相關的費用減少。

We also had [indiscernible] from the FX correction. We had, as I mentioned before a small appreciation of Reals in Q4 2003.

我們還受到了外匯調整的影響。正如我之前提到的，2003 年第四季度雷亞爾小幅升值。

It is important to highlight also that during Q4 2003 we had a very large concentration of extraordinary items, as you can see in slide number 6. As I mentioned most of our extraordinary line items were a provision in Q4 2003 with contractual losses and contingencies with Energy Businesses of R$1.415b.

還需要強調的是，在2003 年第四季度，我們集中了非常多的特殊項目，正如您在第6 張幻燈片中看到的那樣。正如我所提到的，我們的大多數特殊項目都是2003 年第四季度的一項準備金，涉及合同損失和意外事件。能源業務 R$1.415b。

Our contractual loss with OCP transport services in Ecuador of R$293m, in such a way that our net income in Q4 2003 rather than [indiscernible] without the extraordinary items would be R$4.729b.

我們與厄瓜多爾OCP 運輸服務的合同損失為2.93 億雷亞爾，這樣一來，我們2003 年第四季度的淨收入（而不是[音頻不清晰]）如果沒有非常項目，將為雷亞爾4.729b 。

Slide number 7 shows the behavior of our lifting costs and our refining costs. It is important to highlight the importance of the impact of the achieved rate in our numbers.

第 7 號幻燈片顯示了我們的提升成本和精煉成本的行為。重要的是要強調實現率對我們數字的影響的重要性。

On the lifting costs, as you can see during the second, third and fourth quarters of '02 we had a reduction in our lifting costs. One explanation for that is the large depreciation of the Reals that we had in '02.

關於起重成本，正如您所看到的，在 02 年第二、第三和第四季度，我們的起重成本有所下降。對此的一種解釋是 02 年雷亞爾大幅貶值。

A large part of our own inventory costs and lifting costs is Real denominated. When we had a depreciation to the Real, we had a reduction of the correspondent dollar denominated unit lifting costs.

我們自己的庫存成本和起重成本的很大一部分是以雷亞爾計價的。當雷亞爾貶值時，相應的以美元計價的單位提升成本就會減少。

At the end of 2003, in the year of 2003, we had the opposite. During the year of 2003 we had the appreciation of Reals and as we had appreciation of Reals and we have a large part of our lifting costs in Reals we had an increase in the dollar denominated lifting costs. But not only that, if we [get to] the foreign exchange effect on the lifting costs, we would have pretty much stable lifting costs comparing 2003 with 2002.

2003年底，2003年，我們的情況恰恰相反。 2003 年期間，我們的雷亞爾升值，並且由於雷亞爾升值，而且我們的大部分提升成本都是雷亞爾，因此以美元計價的提升成本有所增加。但不僅如此，如果我們考慮外匯對成本提升的影響，那麼與 2003 年相比，我們的成本提升相當穩定。

Our lifting costs without the foreign exchange impact would be $3.05 per barrel in 2003 compared to our lifting costs of $3 per barrel in 2002. The real number, however is R$3.98 at the end of Q4 2003 but with the impact of Q4 2003 there is a result of a reduction in the production, as I mentioned, we had a reduction of 2.6% of our production reduction.

2003 年，如果不考慮外匯影響，我們的提升成本將為每桶3.05 美元，而2002 年我們的提升成本為每桶3 美元。然而，到2003 年第四季度末，實際數字為3.98 雷亞爾，但由於2003 年第四季度的影響，正如我提到的，由於產量減少，我們的產量減少了 2.6%。

We had a great expenditure in material and technical services in maintenance services that were important not only because the Company uses more maintenance and had more stoppages than we had planned, but also because we have a heating market that is very active right now as a result of the international change in the oil industry.

我們在維護服務的材料和技術服務方面投入了大量開支，這很重要，不僅因為公司比我們計劃的要進行更多的維護和停工，而且還因為我們的供暖市場目前非常活躍石油工業的國際變化。

We also had in Q4 2003 the impact of the wage increase and the increase on the labor force that we had during the year 2002. Also, as I mentioned we had the depreciation of the Reals and the reduction of production.

2003 年第四季度，我們還受到了 2002 年工資上漲和勞動力增加的影響。此外，正如我提到的，我們還受到雷亞爾貶值和產量減少的影響。

On the refining all those impacts accumulated in Q4 2003. In Q4 2003 we had some extraordinary increases in wage costs as a result of the payment of some wage payments related to the past liabilities that we had with the labor force, that are not recurrent payments. Also we had a reduction of our refining throughput, we had a reduction in Q4 2003 but we are catching up in 2004.

關於完善2003 年第四季度累積的所有這些影響。2003 年第四季度，我們的工資成本出現了一些異常增加，這是由於支付了一些與我們過去對勞動力的負債有關的工資支付，這些工資不是經常性支付。我們的煉油產量也有所減少，2003 年第四季度我們有所減少，但 2004 年我們正在迎頭趕上。

Actually we announced yesterday that we had a [indiscernible] in our daily production of 1.8 million barrels a day of refining correction, refining throughput.

事實上，我們昨天宣布，我們對日產量 180 萬桶的煉油產量進行了[音頻不清晰] 修正。

Slide number 8 highlights some of our segment results. The E&P production changes, we have a reduction in our net operating revenue. The decrease in revenue was due to a decrease in production and, as I mentioned, this production was partially offset by an increase in oil exports. We had an average price increase to [3.5%].

第 8 號幻燈片重點介紹了我們的一些細分結果。勘探與生產產量發生變化，我們的淨營業收入減少。收入減少是由於產量減少，正如我提到的，石油出口的增加部分抵消了產量的減少。我們的平均價格上漲至 [3.5%]。

We had a reduction in the oil costs of goods sold, mainly due to the lower production, this is the total amount of the cost of the goods sold, and it is not the inventory cost of the goods sold. As a result of the reduction in production and the increase in the Government participation collection and lower costs related to restructuring projects.

我們所售商品的石油成本有所減少，主要是由於產量下降，這是所售商品成本的總額，而不是所售商品的庫存成本。由於產量減少和政府參與徵收的增加以及與重組項目相關的成本降低。

We had an increase in exploration expenses due to the write-off of [oil] wells. [indiscernible] the commercial wells. As you can see also, our operating profit is increasing in Q4 2003.

由於[油]井的註銷，我們的勘探費用增加了。 [音頻不清晰]商業井。正如您所看到的，我們的營業利潤在 2003 年第四季度不斷增長。

Downstream we also had a reduction in our operating costs. The reduction in our operating costs is a result of a reduction of our net income. The decrease was due to a 14% decrease in oil [indiscernible] exports, lower margins during Q3 2003.

下游我們的運營成本也有所降低。我們的運營成本減少是由於我們的淨利潤減少。下降的原因是石油[音頻不清晰]出口下降了 14%，以及 2003 年第三季度利潤率下降。

The inventory refining costs increased to 43% as I mentioned before as a whole, however the cost of goods sold decreased in comparison with the third quarter due to the lower sales in domestic marketing and to export, mainly exports.

正如我之前提到的，庫存精煉成本總體上升至43%，但由於國內營銷和出口（主要是出口）銷售下降，銷售成本與第三季度相比有所下降。

Slide number 10, Gas and Energy Changes shows that in spite of 2% decrease in the natural gas sale volume the net revenue increased due to the consolidation process of two former plants controlled in conjunction with Petrobras Iberdrola, [indiscernible] and an attainment of [indiscernible] energy sales contracts in spite of the retraction of the market.

第10 號幻燈片“天然氣和能源變化”顯示，儘管天然氣銷量下降了2%，但由於與Petrobras Iberdrola 聯合控制的兩家前工廠的合併過程，淨收入有所增加，[音頻不清晰]並且實現了 [儘管市場回縮，但仍簽訂能源銷售合同。

We have also as I mentioned, losses with the Energy business provision mostly in Q4 2003 which makes our gross profit into a net negative operating profit.

正如我所提到的，我們的能源業務虧損主要發生在 2003 年第四季度，這使得我們的毛利潤變成了負營業利潤。

Looking at our distribution segment we can see that we had an increase in operating revenue, a small increase in the cost of goods sold, which [would] change in the gross profit and our operating profit was reduced because we had an increase in [indiscernible] projects in distributional relationships. [indiscernible] power distributor, DI distributor and the market.

看看我們的分銷部門，我們可以看到我們的營業收入有所增加，銷售成本略有增加，這[將]改變毛利潤，並且我們的營業利潤減少了，因為我們的[難以辨別的]增加了] 分配關係中的項目。 [音頻不清晰] 電源經銷商、DI 經銷商和市場。

In our international segment on slide 12 you can see that the contractual loss with OCP in Ecuador was mainly responsible for the reduction on our operating targets. We had lots of other factors, we had an increase in our operating revenue, a small increase in costs of goods change and we had also an increase in exploration expenses.

在幻燈片 12 的國際部分中，您可以看到與厄瓜多爾 OCP 的合同損失是我們運營目標減少的主要原因。我們還有很多其他因素，我們的營業收入增加了，商品變化成本小幅增加，勘探費用也增加了。

Slide number 13 shows the capital structure. It shows the reduction in our leverage ratios, our net debt and net cap ratio went down from [indiscernible] in 2002 to 41% in 2003 and a small increase from 15% to 17% of the short term debt on total debt.

第 13 號幻燈片顯示了資本結構。它表明我們的槓桿率有所下降，我們的淨債務和淨上限比率從2002年的[音頻不清晰]下降到2003年的41%，短期債務佔總債務的比例從15%小幅上升到17% 。

On the right hand side of the slide you can see that our net debt went down 13% compared to December '02. The reduction in our debt is mainly explained by the increase in our cash and cash equivalent of 110% from R$11.8b to R$24.9b in December 2003.

在幻燈片的右側，您可以看到我們的淨債務與 2002 年 12 月相比下降了 13%。我們的債務減少主要是由於我們的現金和現金等價物從 2003 年 12 月的 11.8b 雷亞爾增加到 24.9b 雷亞爾 110%。

Our CAPEX went up 19% in 2003 when we compare our CAPEX in 2002 without the acquisition of the control of [indiscernible] of R$4.442b.

與 2002 年沒有收購 [音頻不清晰] 4.442b 雷亞爾控制權的情況相比，我們的資本支出在 2003 年上升了 19%。

Slide 14 as requested by some analysts, we are trying to reconcile the numbers that we publish in our [indiscernible] balance in 2002 with the new adjustment that we made on our debt numbers now in 2003. Trying to put closer to the chart the numbers in Brazilian GAAP and the US GAAP.

幻燈片 14 應一些分析師的要求，我們正在嘗試將 2002 年[音頻不清晰]餘額中發布的數字與 2003 年對債務數字所做的新調整進行核對。試圖將數字更接近圖表巴西公認會計原則和美國公認會計原則。

We are adjusting the numbers of our debt in Brazilian GAAP to considerably undertaking in consortiums. The adjustment of the financial transaction contracted by the SEC are still not earmarked for the specific investment projects in such a way that we can make numbers in Brazilian GAAP more comparable with the US GAAP in relation to the debt numbers.

我們正在調整巴西公認會計原則中的債務數量，以大幅增加財團債務。美國證券交易委員會對金融交易合同的調整仍然沒有專門針對具體的投資項目，這樣我們就可以使巴西公認會計準則中的數字與美國公認會計準則中的債務數字更具可比性。

Page 15, the sources and uses table on which we are trying to show how we move our cash balance from R$11.8b to R$24.9b, where we can show that most of this change comes from net cash generated by our operational activities. We generate by our normal activities R$26.5b to use R$17.2b CAPEX, R$1.1b other investments and we used R$4.8b to finance activities including amortizations. Leaving us with a cash balance of R$24.953b at the end of 2003.

第 15 頁，我們試圖在其中展示我們如何將現金餘額從 R$11.8b 轉移到 R$24.9b 的來源和用途表，我們可以在其中表明大部分變化來自我們經營活動產生的淨現金。我們通過正常活動產生 26.5 雷亞爾用於資本支出，17.2 雷亞爾用於其他投資，1.1 雷亞爾用於其他投資，我們使用 4.8 雷亞爾為包括攤銷在內的活動提供資金。 2003 年底，我們的現金餘額為 R$24.953b。

Slide 16 shows the same conciliation during the Q3 2003 in relation to Q4 2003. Where we can also show that we had a net cash flow - a positive cash flow from our operation activities that we produce more than we need for CAPEX and we increased our cash balance from R$20.9b to R$24.95b.

幻燈片16 顯示了2003 年第三季度相對於2003 年第四季度的相同調整。我們還可以表明我們有淨現金流量- 來自我們的經營活動的正現金流量，我們生產的現金流量超過了資本支出的需要，並且我們增加了現金餘額從 R$20.9b 增至 R$24.95b。

On page 17 we have tried to show you the evolution of our net debt. Where we can also show that a reduction on the net debt jumps R$35.87b to R$34.684b as a result of increase in our cash balance. Of a cash increase of R$3.97b in spite of the fact that we have increased our gross debt by R$2.167b.

在第 17 頁，我們試圖向您展示我們的淨債務的演變。我們還可以證明，由於現金餘額增加，淨債務減少了 R$35.87b 至 R$34.684b。儘管我們的總債務增加了 R$2.167b，但現金增加了 R$3.97b。

The last slide shows the value added by the company, which is around R$81b where growth is value added. We can show this from '02 to '03 the share of Governmental entities increased from 61% to 65%, but the largest increase was in our shareholders' part.

最後一張幻燈片顯示了公司的增加值，約為 81b 雷亞爾，其中增長是增加值。我們可以看出，從 02 年到 03 年，政府實體的份額從 61% 增加到 65%，但增幅最大的是我們的股東部分。

Our shareholders' part in our value added increase from 11% in 2002 to 23% 2003. The main explanation for this change in the share of the shareholders and the share of Governmental entities is the reduction of the part of the financial institutions and suppliers [indiscernible], the financial expenditure that we had last year that was responsible for 6% of the value added compared to 23% in 2002.

我們的股東在我們增加值中的份額從2002年的11%增加到2003年的23%。股東份額和政府實體份額變化的主要原因是金融機構和供應商份額的減少[ [難以辨認]，去年我們的財政支出佔增加值的6%，而2002 年為23%。

We are now open for the Q and A section. Thank you.

我們現在開始問答部分。謝謝。

Our first question is coming from Carlos De Leon of Deutsche Bank.

我們的第一個問題來自德意志銀行的卡洛斯·德萊昂。

I just have two questions. I wonder if you could update us on the PDT oil pipeline market run for the Compass Basin. How big is the risk of a delay considering the initial opposition to the project by the state of Rio de Janeiro? If indeed there are delays of one to three or more months, what are the potential financial implications for the company?

我只有兩個問題。我想知道您是否能為我們介紹 Compass 盆地 PDT 石油管道市場的最新情況。考慮到里約熱內盧州最初反對該項目，推遲的風險有多大？如果確實存在一到三個月或更長時間的延誤，對公司的潛在財務影響是什麼？

My second question regards the Santos based discovery in the second half of last year. I wonder if you could just update us on this particular discovery, indicating the possible size of cash reserve certifications, and then of the timing of any reserve bookings that may come from here, and also the timing of any commercial production from this book. Thank you.

我的第二個問題是關於去年下半年桑托斯的發現。我想知道您是否可以向我們介紹這一特定發現的最新情況，指出現金儲備認證的可能規模，然後說明可能來自這裡的任何儲備預訂的時間，以及本書任何商業生產的時間。謝謝。

Well, the PDT is a pipeline structure to increase our production from Compass Basin to the market. We are going to increase our production anyway. However, we think the Petrobras position right now is that the best way to transport this production is to use the pipeline, the PDT system.

PDT 是一個管道結構，旨在增加我們從 Compass Basin 到市場的產量。無論如何，我們都會增加產量。然而，我們認為巴西國家石油公司目前的立場是，運輸這些產品的最佳方式是使用管道、PDT 系統。

However, we have a position from the government of Rio de Janeiro, and we have established that in order to fulfill our schedule, our time schedule, we have to make a final decision by the month of March, because we are already in the process of building the P52 platform, and we are also in the bidding process of different plants that are ongoing ways. If we don't have a decision of the best alternative for transportation for the production, we have to find a new alternative for that.

然而，我們得到了里約熱內盧政府的立場，並且我們已經確定，為了完成我們的日程安排，我們的時間表，我們必須在三月份之前做出最終決定，因為我們已經在這個過程中建設P52平台的過程中，我們也在進行不同工廠的招標過程。如果我們無法確定生產運輸的最佳替代方案，我們就必須找到新的替代方案。

We can transport the new production by pipelines, or by ship. We think that the best way to do this is by the pipeline. If we cannot have a final decision by next month, then we have to decide other alternatives.

我們可以通過管道或船舶運輸新產品。我們認為最好的方法是通過管道。如果我們無法在下個月之前做出最終決定，那麼我們必須決定其他替代方案。

On the cash position, I'm going to pass to the people from the ENP that can give a more detailed explanation.

關於現金狀況，我將轉給 ENP 的人員，他們可以給出更詳細的解釋。

It's William Reilly speaking. We made a discovery within the Compass Basin last year, and we have [indiscernible] oil field. It is a field of natural gas and [indiscernible] in the Compass Basin, which is located in the state of San Paolo. We took 520m barrels of oil equivalent in 2003.

說話的是威廉·賴利。去年我們在康帕斯盆地發現了一個油田，我們有[音頻不清晰]。這是一個天然氣田，[音頻不清晰]，位於聖保羅州的康帕斯盆地。 2003 年我們開采了 5.2 億桶石油當量。

That's fine, thanks very much.

那就太好了，非常感謝。

Thank you. Our next question is coming from Frank McGann of Merrill Lynch.

謝謝。我們的下一個問題來自美林證券的弗蘭克·麥克甘。

Hi, I just have a question in terms of costs and lifting costs, specifically. What are your expectations for 2004 as you get back to normal production patterns? How quickly do you think those costs can come down, and what do you think they will average in 2004, and what are your longer term targets are at this point?

您好，我只是有一個關於成本和起重成本的問題。當您恢復正常生產模式時，您對 2004 年有何期望？您認為這些成本下降的速度有多快？您認為 2004 年這些成本的平均水平是多少？目前您的長期目標是什麼？

Also, related to that, what are your production expectations over the next couple of quarters and for the first year? Should we see a rapid return to the levels of production that you had a couple of quarters back?

另外，與此相關的是，您對未來幾個季度和第一年的生產預期是多少？我們是否應該看到生產水平迅速恢復到幾個季度前的水平？

Well, for 2004, in our strategic plan, we have for 2004 we are not expecting a very fast recovery of production. We have a flat production curve for 2004. Our best projection is that our main production system will come into production at the end of 2004, and most of our increasing capacity will turn into 2005 and 2006. We are expecting flat production in 2004.

那麼，對於 2004 年，在我們的戰略計劃中，我們預計 2004 年的生產不會很快恢復。 2004年我們的生產曲線是平坦的。我們最好的預測是我們的主要生產系統將在2004年底投產，大部分增加的產能將在2005年和2006年實現。我們預計2004年的產量將平坦。

However, in our listing costs we think that we can reduce our lifting costs because the outcome of the costs that we have increased in 2003, was generally explained by the unplanned stoppages, and some extraordinary items in the labor costs, and also as a result of the exchange rate valuations that we are not expecting for 2004.

然而，在我們的上市成本中，我們認為我們可以減少起重成本，因為我們在 2003 年增加的成本通常是由計劃外停工和勞動力成本中的一些特殊項目來解釋的，並且因此2004 年的匯率估值是我們沒有預料到的。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Thank you. Our next question is coming from Mark McCarthy at Bear Stearns.

謝謝。我們的下一個問題來自貝爾斯登的馬克·麥卡錫。

I have two or three questions, just following up on some of the things you've already talked about. First of all, can you express the cash and energy CAPEX increase for the fourth quarter, of about R$300m, why it came in one shot, and what the anticipation is looking forward?

我有兩三個問題，只是跟進您已經討論過的一些事情。首先，您能否說明第四季度現金和能源資本支出增加約 3 億雷亞爾，為什麼會一次性增加，以及未來的預期是什麼？

Then, maybe you could just spend a little time and just address the entire CAPEX related topic for 2004. How much cash are you getting approved within the government? How much cash do you actually expect to spend? How much cash will go through the Petrobras balance sheet versus the consortium financing? Let's kind of just get these numbers clarified.

然後，也許您可​​以花一點時間來解決 2004 年與資本支出相關的整個主題。您在政府內部獲得了多少現金批准？您實際預計要花多少錢？與財團融資相比，巴西國家石油公司的資產負債表將有多少現金？讓我們澄清一下這些數字。

The third thing is related to lifting costs. You just answered Frank's question, but you didn't actually highlight. I mean labor costs are going up. Unplanned stoppages means that they will probably happen again, and the currency is due to remain stable from here, but not necessarily depreciate, so why does the cost number come down in 2004, and can you address this related to your R$2.80 target for 2007?

第三件事與吊裝成本有關。你只是回答了弗蘭克的問題，但實際上並沒有強調。我的意思是勞動力成本正在上漲。計劃外的停工意味著它們可能會再次發生，並且貨幣將從此保持穩定，但不一定會貶值，那麼為什麼 2004 年的成本數字會下降，您能否解決與 2007 年 2.80 雷亞爾目標相關的問題？

The cash energy CAPEX, we continue to follow the direction we're taking on our strategic plan, but we are not going to increase the commitment in new ventures in the energy sector.

就現金能源資本支出而言，我們將繼續遵循戰略計劃的方向，但我們不會增加對能源領域新企業的承諾。

We are finishing the commitments that we had, that's the reason why we have based CAPEX in 2003, and also, we are trying to adjust some of the loss that we have, with the owners and the partners of the merchant companies that have contracts with us. This may have some impact on our CAPEX, but only to minimize losses that we hadn't provisioned for the future.

我們正在完成我們的承諾，這就是我們在 2003 年建立資本支出的原因，而且，我們正在努力調整我們與有合同的商業公司的所有者和合作夥伴的一些損失。我們。這可能會對我們的資本支出產生一些影響，但只是為了最大限度地減少我們沒有為未來準備的損失。

In relation to our total CAPEX, within Congress we have approved an [investment] budget of R$28b. This was prepared in August of last year, considering an exchange rate of R$3.25 per dollar, and this is an authorization from the Congress for the system to invest.

就我們的總資本支出而言，我們在國會批准了 28b 雷亞爾的[投資]預算。這是去年 8 月準備的，考慮到 1 美元兌換 3.25 雷亞爾的匯率，這是國會對該系統投資的授權。

We are in the process of defining our investment plan in the company. This investment plan is related to the strategic plan, but we are going to release it to the market by the end of the third quarter, probably the beginning of the second quarter 2004.

我們正在製定公司的投資計劃。這個投資計劃與戰略計劃有關，但我們將在第三季度末，可能是2004年第二季度初向市場發布。

I hope that I can give you the exact numbers for you then.

我希望屆時能為您提供準確的數字。

On [indiscernible] you mentioned increasing labor costs. We have partly increased labor costs but it's extraordinary, it's not the wish that continues to be every month. It's on a [indiscernible] form of our [indiscernible] of work in the past. We have repayments for increasing the prolification of the rank of the labor forces according to our labor plan, and the business was once made, but it's not a recurring expense.

關於[音頻不清晰]，您提到了勞動力成本的增加。我們已經部分增加了勞動力成本，但這是非同尋常的，這並不是每個月都持續存在的願望。這是我們過去[音頻不清晰]工作的[音頻不清晰]形式。我們按照我們的勞動計劃，有增加勞動力隊伍增殖的回報，生意也做了一次，但不是經常性費用。

When we have a planned stoppage, we think that we can minimize the costs of the maintenance. When we have an unplanned stoppage, then our costs are going up. We hope that we can minimize the unplanned stoppages in 2004.

當我們有計劃的停機時，我們認為可以最大限度地減少維護成本。當我們發生意外停機時，我們的成本就會上升。我們希望能夠盡量減少 2004 年的意外停工。

Okay, so just to follow up, you're now envisaging the strategic plans to be released, when? The end of the second quarter?

好的，那麼接下來，您現在設想發布戰略計劃，什麼時候發布？第二季結束了？

No, the end of the first quarter, the beginning of the second quarter.

不，第一節結束，第二節開始。

Okay, so we're still on the April timeframe?

好的，那麼我們仍然是四月份的時間範圍嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay, great. Thanks, Sergio.

好的，太好了。謝謝，塞爾吉奧。

Thank you, Mark.

謝謝你，馬克。

Thank you, and as a reminder, that is 1 followed by 4 on your touchtone telephone to ask a question.

謝謝，提醒一下，在按鍵式電話上按 1 後按 4 即可提問。

Our next question is coming from Katie Blacklock of Staines River Capital. Your line is live?

我們的下一個問題來自斯坦斯河資本公司的凱蒂·布萊克洛克。您的線路上線了嗎？

Hello, I just wanted to ask again on the CAPEX front, was 2003 light in terms of CAPEX versus your strategic plan, and should we then expect some of that CAPEX to be loaded into 2004?

您好，我只是想再問一下關於資本支出的問題，與您的戰略計劃相比，2003 年的資本支出是否較少？我們是否應該期望其中一些資本支出會被加載到 2004 年？

Yes, our strategic plan for 2003 was around $7b. We had an actual investment of $6.2b, and considered the average exchange rate result. It was a little bit below but not big. It was far from what we had in [indiscernible].

是的，我們 2003 年的戰略計劃約為 70 億美元。我們的實際投資為 6.2b 美元，並考慮了平均匯率結果。有點低，但不大。這與我們在[音頻不清晰]中所擁有的相去甚遠。

For 2004, we think that we can keep in line with our strategic plan which we allowed for 2004 something around $7b, $7.5b of investment.

對於 2004 年，我們認為我們可以與我們的戰略計劃保持一致，我們在 2004 年允許投資約 70 億美元至 7.5 億美元。

Okay, so that $6.2b, that includes the CAPEX on the SPCs? Is that right?

好的，那麼 6.2b 美元包括 SPC 上的資本支出嗎？是對的嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. Can you just tell me how much that was in total in 2003?

好的。你能告訴我2003年總共多少錢嗎？

Yes, let me check the numbers, I think I have it here, in slide number 13. It was R$21.089b.

是的，讓我檢查一下數字，我想我在這裡，第 13 號幻燈片中。它是 R$21.089b。

Sorry, it was the CAPEX for the SPCs in 2003.

抱歉，這是 2003 年 SPC 的資本支出。

R$26.04b. R$18.485b was our CAPEX in total Reals.

R$26.04b。 R$18.485b 是我們的總雷亞爾資本支出。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

Thank you. We have a follow up question coming from Mark McCarthy of Bear Stearns.

謝謝。我們有來自貝爾斯登公司的馬克·麥卡錫的後續問題。

Just one follow up. There's been a proposal, I suppose, by [indiscernible] to reconsider the P51 plan, building it all locally except with a more revised timeframe. I wanted to see if in fact this is a real alternative. I wanted to see your impressions about how things are going with regard to the ICMS issue with the state of Rio. Obviously this new pipeline issue is just a continuation of that, but in light of the longer-term production targets for P51 and 52, and to see if this is a consideration as it seems like more of a six month delay. What are your thoughts?

只需一個跟進。我想，[音頻不清晰]有人提議重新考慮 P51 計劃，除了修改時間表外，所有計劃都在本地進行。我想看看這實際上是否是一個真正的替代方案。我想了解一下您對里約州 ICMS 問題進展情況的看法。顯然，這個新的管道問題只是該問題的延續，但考慮到 P51 和 52 的長期生產目標，並看看這是否是一個考慮因素，因為它看起來更像是六個月的延遲。你怎麼看？

Well, P52 is underway, there's no pull out in the [indiscernible] schedule. The P51 is a little bit delayed. We are discussing different alternatives right now. There is a possibility of an ICMS discount if the holes built in Brazil, in Rio de Janeiro, and we have discussion with [indiscernible] and other suppliers. We don't have a final decision yet.

嗯，P52 正在進行中，[音頻不清晰] 日程中沒有取消。 P51有點延遲。我們現在正在討論不同的替代方案。如果在巴西、里約熱內盧建造洞，則有可能獲得 ICMS 折扣，並且我們與[音頻不清晰]和其他供應商進行了討論。我們還沒有最終決定。

Okay, at this point, though, we should consider the project at least delayed until -

好吧，不過，在這一點上，我們應該考慮將該項目至少推遲到 -

Yes, we don't have a clear schedule right now. I cannot answer your question on how long it will be delayed, the P51 project, but it is delayed up to now.

是的，我們現在還沒有明確的時間表。我無法回答你的問題，P51項目會推遲多久，但目前已經推遲了。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

Thank you. Our next question is coming from Emerson Laity of Credit Suisse First Boston.

謝謝。我們的下一個問題來自瑞士信貸第一波士頓公司的艾默生·萊蒂。

I have a follow up on the CAPEX question. First, for the year 2003, the total CAPEX that you had was roughly R$18.5b plus another R$2b on SPC, so almost R$21b. The average exchange rate was below $3.00, so total CAPEX for you in dollars was almost $7b. You mentioned $6.2b, so I would like to see if there is any mismatch here?

我對資本支出問題進行了跟進。首先，2003 年的資本支出總額約為 18.5 億雷亞爾，再加上 SPC 的 20 億雷亞爾，所以幾乎為 21 億雷亞爾。平均匯率低於 3.00 美元，因此以美元計算的總資本支出幾乎為 70 億美元。你提到了$6.2b，所以我想看看這裡是否有任何不匹配的地方？

Also, still on this topic, when you mentioned the R$28b approval within the Congress, is that under a $3.25 exchange rate we are talking about $8.6b. I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the budget approved within the Congress is related to the CAPEX for only the Brazilian Petrobras companies, meaning that international CAPEX is not included in that figure. So could you provide some clarification on that please?

另外，還是在這個話題上，當您提到國會批准 28b 雷亞爾時，在 3.25 美元的匯率下，我們談論的是 8.6b 美元。我理解，如果我錯了，請糾正我，國會批准的預算僅與巴西國家石油公司的資本支出相關，這意味著該數字不包括國際資本支出。您能否對此進行一些澄清？

Yes, first, the number $6.2b and the $7b is the difference between the average exchange rate and the current exchange rate. That has fallen, you know, we had an appreciation of Reals due in 2003 during the year and that's the reason why you have this difference between the $6.2b and the $7b. But these numbers are considered in Brazilian GAAP. Those numbers are going to be very clear when we leave the US GAAP numbers, but we don't have them right now.

是的，首先，$6.2b 和 $7b 的數字是平均匯率與當前匯率之間的差額。你知道，這個數字已經下降了，我們在 2003 年的雷亞爾升值，這就是為什麼 6.2b 美元和 7b 美元之間存在這種差異的原因。但這些數字已在巴西公認會計準則中考慮。當我們留下美國公認會計準則數據時，這些數字將會非常清晰，但我們現在還沒有。

The second thing is on our CAPEX, from the Brazilian Congress. I don't remember the number from last year, but usually when you have the Brazilian Congress budget for annual investment, it's called OEI in Brazil. This is for the [indiscernible] system which allows also for some capital contributions.

第二件事是關於我們的資本支出，來自巴西國會。我不記得去年的數字，但通常當你有巴西國會年度投資預算時，它在巴西被稱為 OEI。這是針對[音頻不清晰]的系統，該系統也允許一些資本貢獻。

It is increasing our participating in our [indiscernible] which is included in our OAI budget in order to sum up our international investments.

它正在增加我們對[音頻不清晰]的參與，這已包含在我們的 OAI 預算中，以總結我們的國際投資。

Should something close to $7.5m for CAPEX as opposed to the potential R$28b number?

資本支出是否應該接近 750 萬美元，而不是潛在的 280 億雷亞爾？

Can you repeat this please. I cannot hear you.

請您重複一遍。我聽不到您的聲音。

So we should assume that the CAPEX including all the investments, including SDC and including international CAPEX will not be beyond $7m to $7.5m as you mentioned before?

因此，我們應該假設包括所有投資在內的資本支出（包括 SDC 和國際資本支出）不會超過您之前提到的 700 萬至 750 萬美元？

We are in the middle of the process of definition of our strategic plan. I can not assure you of that, because we don't have the final numbers of our investment plan.

我們正在製定戰略計劃。我不能向你保證這一點，因為我們沒有投資計劃的最終數字。

Any comments on potential acquisitions on the LPG second [indiscernible] and also on petrochemicals that eventually are not yet considered in the overall CAPEX numbers?

對液化石油氣第二[音頻不清晰]以及最終尚未在總體資本支出數字中考慮的石化產品的潛在收購有何評論？

On the LPG in Brazil?

巴西的液化石油氣？

Yes. There is a little more [indiscernible] that you are in talks with ENI to buy in AGIP for an undisclosed amount, but could reach $500m or so?

是的。還有一點[音頻不清晰]，您正在與 ENI 洽談以未公開的金額購買 AGIP，但可能達到 5 億美元左右？

Well, Petrobras has always considered all the possibilities and business opportunities and we have considered different alternatives for increasing our presence in the LPG sector in Brazil. One possibility is to acquisition other possibilities too.

巴西國家石油公司始終考慮所有可能性和商機，我們考慮了不同的替代方案來增加我們在巴西液化石油氣行業的影響力。一種可能性是同時獲得其他可能性。

In relation to your other question where you mention petrochemicals. Petrochemicals also in the past is the decision of our strategic plan for the petrochemicals. It is clear that we are going to change our presence in the petrochemical site. We haven't decided yet how we are going to do this. We hope that by the end of the [indiscernible] definition of our strategic plan, then we can reduce our plants.

關於您提到石化產品的另一個問題。石化也過去是我們石化戰略規劃的決定。很明顯，我們將改變我們在石化基地的存在。我們還沒有決定如何做到這一點。我們希望在我們的戰略計劃[音頻不清晰]定義結束時，我們可以減少我們的工廠。

Just one final question, Sergio. Petrobras here when you are considering Argentina, has historically held conference calls with analysts to provide good information and Petrobras has always traded as a very transparent company. For this quarter they did not hold a conference call for analysts and I understand that the reason for that was an orientation from their controlling group which is Petrogas Brazil. What is the reason behind that?

最後一個問題，塞爾吉奧。當您考慮阿根廷時，巴西國家石油公司歷來與分析師舉行電話會議以提供良好的信息，並且巴西國家石油公司一直是一家非常透明的公司。本季度他們沒有召開分析師電話會議，據我了解，原因是他們的控股集團巴西石油公司的指示。這背後的原因是什麼？

Petrogas [indiscernible] conference call out there. After this one, they will hold their own.

Petrogas [音頻不清晰]電話會議在那裡舉行。在這之後，他們將堅持自己的立場。

That was not yet disclosed to the market or was it already?

尚未向市場披露還是已經向市場披露了？

It should be disclosed. I don't know if it is already or not. I don't know. I cannot answer that precisely to you, but it is disclosed to the market. It is going to be out there.

應該披露。我不知道它是否已經存在。我不知道。我無法準確地回答你這個問題，但它是向市場披露的。它將會出現在外面。

Okay. Thank you very much.

好的。非常感謝。

Thank you. Our next question is coming from Paco Miranda(ph.) of Citigroup.

謝謝。我們的下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Paco Miranda（博士）。

I think you were quoted by a newspaper a few weeks ago saying that Petrobras could issue debt by somewhere between $2b and $3b this year. Is that something that you can comment on?

我想幾週前一家報紙引用了您的話說，巴西國家石油公司今年可能發行 20 億至 30 億美元的債務。您可以對此發表評論嗎？

What I said was that in our strategic plan for 2007, we are considering the possibilities to raise between $2b and $2.5b per year through debt. However, if you consider that we have a very large cash balance right now, we can change this. But we are considering that we have other objectives rather than only to finance our investments. We need and we want to increase the duration of our debt to reduce costs and increase the plant and the maturity of that profile in such a way that we are open to different possibilities to [indiscernible] debt to operations that can reduce our costs and increase the maturity.

我所說的是，在我們 2007 年的戰略計劃中，我們正在考慮每年通過債務籌集 20 億至 2.5 億美元的可能性。但是，如果您認為我們現在有大量現金餘額，我們可以改變這一點。但我們正在考慮我們還有其他目標，而不僅僅是為我們的投資提供資金。我們需要並且我們希望延長債務期限，以降低成本，增加工廠和該概況的成熟度，以便我們對[難以辨別的]運營債務的不同可能性持開放態度，這可以降低我們的成本並增加成熟度。

Okay. You are talking about structures or sections of this net debt?

好的。您是在談論該淨債務的結構或部分嗎？

Could you repeat please? We have some problem with the sound.

請問你可以重複一遍嗎？我們的聲音有些問題。

I am asking if you are talking about structure deals or things that will allow you to issue investment grade debt.

我問你是否在談論結構交易或允許你發行投資級債務的事情。

The possibility of the investment grades is not depending only on Petrobras. But we think that we have the numbers to be invested in the company. We have the financial results that can be comparable to other investment grade companies. However, we think that this rating process depends on other variables, mainly the valuation of the zip(ph.) code of the company. But as you can see, if you look at our yield curve, we have a reduction of our yield. We have an increase in the region of our debt. We have a reduction we are trading below the [indiscernible] Brazilian 7 curve and we are [indiscernible] spread between our debt and US Treasury.

投資等級的可能性不僅僅取決於巴西國家石油公司。但我們認為我們有足夠的資金投資該公司。我們的財務業績可與其他投資級公司相媲美。然而，我們認為這個評級過程取決於其他變量，主要是公司郵政編碼的估值。但正如您所看到的，如果您查看我們的收益率曲線，就會發現我們的收益率有所下降。我們的債務有所增加。我們的交易價格低於[音頻不清晰]巴西7號曲線，我們的債務和美國國債之間的利差[音頻不清晰]。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Thank you. As a final reminder, if you do have a question, please press the numbers '1' followed by '4' on your touchtone telephone.

謝謝。最後提醒一下，如果您確實有疑問，請在按鍵式電話上按數字“1”，然後按“4”。

We do have a question coming from Christian Oddy of Morgan Stanley.

我們確實有來自摩根士丹利的克里斯蒂安·奧迪的問題。

A clarification on a question, with respect of production. Did you say at the beginning of your comments that the production growth for 2004 is 0%? Is that the official guidance that you are giving for 2004 production growth?

關於生產方面的問題的澄清。您在評論開頭是否說過2004年的產量增長率為0%？這是你們對 2004 年產量增長給出的官方指導嗎？

Secondly, can you talk about you said a bit about lifting costs, can you talk about refining costs, what are the expectations and the main drivers behind those expectations please?

其次，您能談談您所說的關於提高成本的問題嗎？您能談談煉油成本嗎？您的期望是什麼以及這些期望背後的主要驅動因素是什麼？

We have a different product cycle underway. P43, P48, P50, P31 and SPSO [indiscernible] South which should yield 30,000 barrels per day but it is coming into production in 2005.

我們正在進行不同的產品週期。 P43、P48、P50、P31 和 SPSO [音頻不清晰] South 日產量應為 30,000 桶，但將於 2005 年投產。

150,000 P43, 160,000 P48, 108,000 P50, 100,000 in SPSO and 50,000 in P31. [indiscernible].

150,000 P43、160,000 P48、108,000 P50、SPSO 100,000 和 P31 50,000。 [音頻不清晰]。

The [indiscernible] we hope that P43 and P48 is on schedule right now on the new schedule that we arranged with the supplier. But the best production has only to be increased at the end of 2004. [indiscernible]. We can't give you the numbers of [indiscernible].

[音頻不清晰]我們希望 P43 和 P48 現在能夠按我們與供應商安排的新時間表進行。但最好的產量只能在 2004 年底增加。[音頻不清晰]。我們無法向您提供[音頻不清晰]的數字。

We probably will have at the end of 2004 an increase in the production of 3% in relation to the end of 2004.

到 2004 年底，我們的產量可能比 2004 年底增加 3%。

Thank you. At this time we have no further questions. Are there any closing comments?

謝謝。目前我們沒有其他問題了。有結束語嗎？

Yes. I would like to emphasize that we have released to the market yesterday, that we have increased our production and refining systems to put us in black at 1.8m barrels a day, which is a recovery from the first quarter of 2003 and we hope that we are going to continue in this line in using the Brazilian product through our refining system.

是的。我想強調的是，我們昨天已經向市場公佈，我們已經增加了生產和煉油系統，使我們的產量達到每天 180 萬桶，這比 2003 年第一季度有所恢復，我們希望我們能夠我們將繼續通過我們的精煉系統使用巴西產品。

We would also like to thank you all and to say that the results and the numbers are available now on our website and also our investor relations people are available for further questions. Thank you very much.

我們還要感謝大家，並表示結果和數據現已在我們的網站上提供，我們的投資者關係人員也可以回答進一步的問題。非常感謝。