巴西石油 (PBR.A) 2020 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Welcome to Petrobras webcast with analysts and investors about our results on the fourth quarter 2020. (Operator Instructions) You can send us questions by e-mail, petroinvest@petrobras.com.br.

早安.歡迎與分析師和投資者一起觀看 Petrobras 網路廣播，了解我們 2020 年第四季的業績。（操作說明）您可以透過電子郵件向我們發送問題，petroinvest@petrobras.com.br。

Today, we have with us Roberto Castello Branco, Petrobras CEO; Andrea Almeida, Chief Financial and Investor Relations Officer; Andre Chiarini, Chief Trading and Logistics Officer; Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira, Chief Exploration and Production Officer; Marcelo Zenkner, Chief Governance and Compliance Officer; Nicolas Simone, Chief Digital Transformation and Innovation Officer; Roberto Ardenghy, Chief Institutional Relations and Sustainability Officer; Rodrigo Costa Lima E Silva, Chief Refining and Natural Gas Officer; and Rudimar Lorenzatto, Chief Production Development Officer.

今天，我們邀請了巴西國家石油公司執行長 Roberto Castello Branco； Andrea Almeida，財務與投資者關係長； Andre Chiarini，首席貿易與物流長； Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira，首席勘探和生產長； Marcelo Zenkner，首席治理與合規長； Nicolas Simone，首席數位轉型和創新長； Roberto Ardenghy，首席機構關係與永續發展長； Rodrigo Costa Lima E Silva，首席煉油與天然氣長；和首席生產開發官 Rudimar Lorenzatto。

We'll start by listening to Petrobras CEO, Roberto Castello Branco, with the highlights of our results. Please, Roberto, go ahead.

首先，我們將聆聽巴西國家石油公司執行長 Roberto Castello Branco 介紹我們的業績亮點。羅伯托，請繼續。

It's a pleasure to meet you. I'm very glad to present an outstanding performance of Petrobras in 2020, last year. Since the first day when I started with Petrobras, we launched a strategy with 5 strategic pillars, complemented by 2 important instruments: cultural transformation and digital transformation; and a new style of management, more informal, more dialogue, more transparency, data-driven decisions and a lot of energy dedicated to the business.

很高興見到你。我很高興向大家介紹巴西國家石油公司去年在 2020 年的優異表現。自從我加入巴西國家石油公司的第一天起，我們就啟動了一項包含 5 個策略支柱的策略，並輔以 2 個重要工具：文化轉型和數位轉型；以及新的管理風格，更加非正式，更多對話，更加透明，數據驅動的決策以及致力於業務的大量精力。

In -- last year, we faced the impact of the pandemic, of COVID-19 pandemic and a strong shock -- negative shock on the oil industry, reducing price to -- as low as $19 per barrel in April, and even negative price for a very short period of time, high inventories, demand contraction across the board. But that time, we promised a safe recovery, meaning that we're aiming to end up better than before the COVID-19 crisis. And we did it. We delivered on our promise. Petrobras today is better, much better than it was in the past.

去年，我們面臨著大流行、COVID-19大流行的影響和強烈的衝擊——對石油行業的負面衝擊，4月份油價降至每桶19美元，甚至出現負價很短一段時間內，庫存居高不下，需求全線萎縮。但那一次，我們承諾安全復甦，這意味著我們的目標是比 COVID-19 危機之前更好。我們做到了。我們兌現了我們的承諾。今天的巴西國家石油公司比過去好多了。

We managed to reach an all-time high production of oil and gas, an all-time high oil exports and all-time high exports of fuel oil. Alongside this, Petrobras had a very strong cash flow generation with an operational cash flow of USD 28.9 billion and a free cash flow of $24.1 billion, if we include revenues from divestments, about $2 billion last year.

石油和天然氣產量、石油出口量和燃料油出口量均創歷史新高。除此之外，巴西國家石油公司還擁有非常強勁的現金流，營運現金流為 289 億美元，自由現金流為 241 億美元（如果包括撤資帶來的收入，去年約為 20 億美元）。

Costs were cut across the board in the operations, in corporate activities. Efficiency gains were realized. Digital transformation was accelerated as well was the strategy execution. We enhanced the information technology infrastructure and created excellence centers. We used start-ups -- internal start-ups to find very fast solutions from some problems. It's working very well, agile teams. And our research center was revamped with much -- today, it's much more integrated into the company with a vision, not only a technological vision, but also with economics. There is an old saying that, "You can ignore economics, but economics will never ignore you." Sooner or later, if you ignore economics, you are going to get very negative consequences for you.

營運和企業活動的成本都被全面削減。實現了效率提升。數位轉型加速，策略執行加速。我們加強了資訊技術基礎設施並創建了卓越中心。我們利用新創公司——內部新創公司來尋找一些問題的快速解決方案。它運作得很好，敏捷的團隊。我們的研究中心進行了許多改造——今天，它更加融入了公司的願景，不僅是技術願景，還有經濟願景。有句老話說：“你可以忽視經濟學，但經濟學永遠不會忽視你。”如果你忽視經濟學，遲早會為你帶來非常負面的後果。

But in terms of safety operations, Petrobras performed very well, establishing a new record in terms of the rate of recordable accidents per 1 million man-hour, it was 0.56, a new benchmark for the global oil industry. We managed to obtain some adhesion in terms of emissions.

但在安全營運方面，巴西國家石油公司表現非常出色，創下了每百萬工時可記錄事故率的新紀錄，為0.56，成為全球石油業的新標竿。我們設法在排放方面獲得了一定的附著力。

In terms of diversity, the number of executive managers -- of women executive managers more than double relatively to 2018. In our executive team, we have -- we had 2 women out of 8 executive directors, now have only 1. But the human team will be very soon enhanced by one director -- one women director.

在多樣性方面，執行經理（女性執行經理）的數量比 2018 年增加了一倍以上。在我們的執行團隊中，我們的 8 位執行董事中有 2 位是女性，現在只有 1 位。但團隊很快就會由一位董事（一位女性董事）來增強。

Well, I am using a T-shirt. I like this T-shirt, I borrowed from the London Underground with its slogan, Mind the Gap. And why is that? Because why -- we are not comparing ourselves, adopting an internal view, comparing ourselves to Petrobras in the past. But our goal is to close the gap to our peers in the global oil industry. Our goal is to have an outside view that's much more healthier, much more appropriate to incentivize the company to become the best, the best oil and gas company in terms of cash -- value generation to shareholders. So the numbers speak for themselves. I'm not going to elaborate about the numbers.

嗯，我用的是T卹。我喜歡這件T卹，是我從倫敦地鐵借來的，上面寫著「Mind the Gap」。為什麼是這樣？因為為什麼──我們沒有比較自己，採取內部觀點，將自己與過去的巴西國家石油公司比較。但我們的目標是縮小與全球石油產業同行的差距。我們的目標是擁有更健康、更合適的外部觀點，以激勵公司成為最優秀的石油和天然氣公司，為股東創造現金價值。所以數字不言而喻。我不會詳細說明這些數字。

And about Mind the Gap, it's important to say that Petrobras was the only company when -- in comparison with major oil companies -- global major oil companies that managed to reduce total debt.

關於“注意差距”，重要的是要說，與主要石油公司相比，巴西國家石油公司是唯一一家成功減少總債務的全球主要石油公司。

In terms of free cash flow, Petrobras was #1. And in addition to that, Petrobras was the only company compared, again, with major oil companies that was able to grow operational cash flow. There was no contraction, thus more cash generated.

就自由現金流而言，巴西國家石油公司排名第一。除此之外，與主要石油公司相比，巴西國家石油公司是唯一一家能夠增加營運現金流的公司。沒有出現收縮，因此產生了更多現金。

I'm very proud of our teams, our multidisciplinary agile teams that work with very strong determination to win. They went for the extra mile to make the company better. I'm very proud of them. And we did it. This is a very important result in face of the adverse scenario we have to deal. And as a state-owned company, it's like we have several advantages relative to global private sector companies. We didn't fire 1 employee. We had -- we launched a voluntary dismissal program, obtained -- to which more than 11,000 people enlisted, and it's contributing to reduce costs. More than 6,000 left the company. We have more thousands of people, approximately 5,000 people live in Petrobras, and it's procedure is like transparent.

我為我們的團隊感到非常自豪，我們的多學科敏捷團隊以非常堅定的獲勝決心開展工作。他們加倍努力，讓公司變得更好。我為他們感到非常自豪。我們做到了。面對我們必須應對的不利情況，這是一個非常重要的結果。作為一家國有企業，我們相對於全球私人企業有幾個優勢。我們沒有解僱 1 名員工。我們發起了一項自願解僱計劃，已有超過 11,000 人加入，這有助於降低成本。超過6000人離開了公司。我們有數千人，大約有 5,000 人住在巴西國家石油公司，而且它的程序是透明的。

So thank you for your attention. I return the word to Carla to go ahead with our video conference.

感謝您的關注。我回覆卡拉，讓我們繼續進行視訊會議。

Thank you, Roberto. The Q&A session will begin. And the first question we received comes from Frank McGann with Bank of America Merrill Lynch. So before going through Frank's question, he sent a message to Roberto and the management team that I'm going to read now.

謝謝你，羅伯托。問答環節將開始。我們收到的第一個問題來自美銀美林的 Frank McGann。因此，在回答弗蘭克的問題之前，他向羅伯托和管理團隊發送了一條訊息，我現在要閱讀該訊息。

First, I would like to thank you for your openness, transparency and directness in what has been a transformational period of restructuring at Petrobras.

首先，我要感謝您在巴西國家石油公司重組轉型時期所展現的公開、透明和直接。

So Frank's first question comes from -- to Andrea. So Andrea, with stronger oil price environment that seems to be more sustainable than previously expected, how do you see potential for achieving some of your targets for that reduction sooner than expected?

法蘭克的第一個問題來自──安德里亞。那麼，Andrea，隨著油價環境走強，似乎比之前的預期更具永續性，您如何看待比預期更早實現部分減排目標的潛力？

Frank, thank you very much for the question. This is a very good problem to have. So if we always have the problem of having price higher than expected, I believe that, that's the easiest thing to do. But as we always mentioned, we had 2 things that we were lagging behind compared to the other big oil companies. One is deleveraging; and second is dividend. So if we really have a better scenario and if we are able to get to our goal, and the most important one is the total debt of $50 billion faster, I believe it will be important for, I believe, for these 2 important goals because we would be in a much better situation related to the cost of capital and to the total debt of the company, and we would be able to pay even more dividends to our shareholders.

弗蘭克，非常感謝你的提問。這是一個非常好的問題。因此，如果我們總是遇到價格高於預期的問題，我相信，這是最容易做的事情。但正如我們一直提到的，與其他大型石油公司相比，我們有兩件事落後了。一是去槓桿；其次是股息。因此，如果我們真的有一個更好的方案，如果我們能夠實現我們的目標，最重要的一個是更快地償還500 億美元的總債務，我相信這對於這兩個重要目標將很重要，因為在資本成本和公司總債務方面，我們的處境會好得多，而且我們將能夠向股東支付更多的股息。

So I believe it's a good problem to have. And if we can do faster, we will do. So -- but the prices are volatile. It's very hard to say that these prices are going to be kept, and that's why we kept our long-term pricing for the Brent as the $50 per barrel. But thank you for the question.

所以我相信這是一個好問題。如果我們能做得更快，我們就會做。所以——但價格波動很大。很難說這些價格會保持不​​變，這就是為什麼我們將布蘭特原油的長期定價保持在每桶 50 美元。但謝謝你的提問。

Thanks you, Andrea. He also has the second question, it's also for you. So also, could -- this means about higher prices than expected provide an opportunity to increase investments in pre-salt or other projects beyond what has been planned until now?

謝謝你，安德里亞。他還有第二個問題，也是問你的。那麼，這是否意味著比預期更高的價格提供了一個機會來增加對鹽下或其他項目的投資，超出目前的計劃？

So Frank, we did a revision of our portfolio at the end of last year when we presented the new plan, '21 to '25 plan. And that revision was based on a resilient figure for our breakeven. So we said that we just want to invest in new projects that have a breakeven below $35 per barrel. So this is a very strong guideline. So we will keep that as a matter of what is the scenario.

弗蘭克，去年年底，當我們提出新計劃“21 至 25 計劃”時，我們對我們的投資組合進行了修訂。這項修正是基於我們損益平衡點的彈性數字。所以我們說我們只想投資損益平衡點低於每桶 35 美元的新項目。所以這是一個非常有力的指導方針。因此，我們將根據具體情況保留這一點。

And actually, when we did the revision, we already changed a little bit the prices. So I expect that we will see what is going to happen. And maybe at the end of the year, we have another revision. But as we have a very strong and a very important guideline that is really to have resilient projects in our portfolio, I don't expect big changes. But I'll pass the word to Capo, if he wants to complement.

事實上，當我們進行修訂時，我們已經對價格進行了一些更改。所以我希望我們會看看會發生什麼。也許在今年年底，我們會有另一次修訂。但由於我們有一個非常強大且非常重要的指導方針，那就是在我們的投資組合中真正擁有有彈性的項目，所以我預計不會有太大的變化。但如果卡波想補充的話，我會轉達給他。

Okay, Andrea, thank you. Well, as Andrea mentioned, all projects in our portfolio are resilient to a Brent of $35 per barrel, and that's our -- we always check the project that are resilient to this price. But if the price in the future, as Andrea was saying, confirms to be higher than the price we estimate in our strategic plan, the anticipation could be something to be evaluated in the future. But it's important to check 2 things at this time besides cash availability, which will be higher with -- higher price, which are the impact on the debt reduction strategy. And we have always to have this target -- keeping this target.

好的，安德里亞，謝謝你。嗯，正如 Andrea 所提到的，我們投資組合中的所有項目都能夠承受每桶 35 美元的布蘭特原油價格，這就是我們的——我們總是檢查能夠承受這個價格的項目。但如果未來的價格，正如安德里亞所說，確認高於我們在戰略計劃中估計的價格，那麼未來的預期可能需要評估。但除了現金可用性之外，此時重要的是要檢查兩件事，即現金可用性會隨著價格的上漲而增加，這對債務削減策略的影響。我們必須始終有這個目標──保持這個目標。

And the capacity of the suppliers as well to provide additional fiscal results because, as today, they are facing some restrictions due to the worldwide effects caused by the pandemic of the COVID-19. So that's not only something that's only a matter of Petrobras doing it wrong because the market today regarding the fiscal results that we need, and especially because we work in this particular scenario of the result that requires resources that are specific. So we would look at the capacity of the market to provide those results as well.

供應商提供額外財務業績的能力也同樣如此，因為截至目前，由於 COVID-19 疫情在全球範圍內造成的影響，他們面臨一些限制。因此，這不僅僅是巴西國家石油公司做錯了的問題，因為今天的市場關注我們需要的財政結果，特別是因為我們在這種特殊的情況下工作，需要特定的資源。因此，我們也會考慮市場提供這些結果的能力。

Thank you, Andrea. Thank you, Capo. The second question comes from Rodolfo Angele with JPMorgan. He also sent us a message to Roberto and the management team. I'll begin to read now.

謝謝你，安德里亞。謝謝你，卡波。第二個問題來自摩根大通的 Rodolfo Angele。他還向我們發送了一條訊息給羅伯托和管理團隊。我現在就開始讀書。

So first of all, I think it's important to acknowledge that in 2 years, even facing an oil crisis where prices became negative in a global pandemic, current management was able to transform Petrobras even in a short time period. Today, the company has a healthy balance sheet, generates a lot of cash and has high returns, not to mention the transparency and openness to the capital market. Congratulations, Roberto and team.

因此，首先，我認為重要的是要承認，在兩年內，即使面臨全球大流行導致價格變為負值的石油危機，當前的管理層也能夠在短時間內實現巴西國家石油公司的轉型。如今，該公司擁有健康的資產負債表、大量現金、高回報，更不用說對資本市場的透明度和開放性。恭喜羅伯托和團隊。

So now going to the question. So the first question is for Roberto. Roberto, can you comment on how will be the transition process to the new management?

現在進入問題。第一個問題是問羅伯託的。羅伯托，您能否評論一下向新管理層的過渡過程將如何？

Rodolfo, thank you for your comments. On behalf of myself, the executive team and all Petrobras employees, because the performance is not only due to the action of the CEO and the executive directors, it's -- each one of the employees have a piece in the construction of a company -- company's performance. Well, I don't know -- for the time being, I don't know about how the transition will be implemented. The only thing that I strongly believe is to guarantee that we will be very open, very transparent as well. And we will try to help the transition to be very smooth and productive. This is our duty to contribute to that process on this way.

魯道夫，謝謝您的評論。我代表我自己、執行團隊和所有巴西國家石油公司員工，因為績效不僅取決於執行長和執行董事的行動，而且——每一位員工都在公司的建設中做出了貢獻——公司的業績。嗯，我不知道——暫時我不知道過渡將如何實施。我堅信的唯一一件事就是保證我們將非常開放、非常透明。我們將盡力幫助過渡順利且富有成效。我們有責任以這種方式為這一進程做出貢獻。

Roberto, our next question comes from Luiz Carvalho. Sorry. So we have a second question for Rodolfo Angele with JPMorgan. It's for Andrea. Andrea, the company is generating a lot of cash, keeps on deleveraging and has been showing decline in financial expenses. Looking ahead, how many opportunities do you still have to continue to deleverage and engaging in liability management?

羅伯托，我們的下一個問題來自路易斯卡瓦略。對不起。我們向摩根大通的魯道夫·安吉勒提出第二個問題。這是給安德里亞的。安德里亞表示，該公司正在產生大量現金，不斷去槓桿化，財務費用一直在下降。展望未來，你還有多少機會繼續去槓桿、搞負債管理？

Rodolfo, thank you very much for the question. I think we do have lots of opportunity to do liability management. We still have a big debt, as we say. So we reduced a lot. $76 billion is a number that we never expected for last year, but it's still a high number. As you know, we wanted to get to $60 billion in 2022, and we still have a lot to be done to reduce the debt and to reduce the interest we pay on our loans.

魯道夫，非常感謝你的提問。我認為我們確實有很多機會進行責任管理。正如我們所說，我們仍然背負著巨額債務。所以我們減少了很多。760 億美元是我們去年從未預料到的數字，但它仍然是一個很高的數字。如你所知，我們希望在 2022 年達到 600 億美元，但我們仍有許多工作要做，以減少債務並減少貸款利息。

So we still have a lot of opportunities to do prepayments in the bilaterals and prepayments in the capital markets. And we will be exploring the opportunities to be doing that and reducing the debt towards our goal that is the $60 billion in 2022.

所以我們還有很多機會在雙邊方面做預付款，在資本市場上做預付款。我們將探索實現這一目標的機會，並減少債務，以實現 2022 年 600 億美元的目標。

Thank you, Andrea. The next question comes from Luiz Carvalho. UBS. Luiz also sent a message to Roberto and the team that I'm going to read now.

謝謝你，安德里亞。下一個問題來自路易斯·卡瓦略。瑞銀。路易斯還向羅伯托和他的團隊發送了一條訊息，我現在將閱讀該訊息。

So before we go to questions, I'd like to take a moment to reinforce our positive view on the work that has been done in the company, strategy and governance led by Roberto over the past 2 years. Really well done.

因此，在我們提問之前，我想花點時間重申我們對羅伯托過去兩年領導的公司、策略和治理工作的正面看法。確實做得很好。

So Luiz' first question goes to Andrea. So Andrea, there were lots of noise over the past couple of days, as we all know. Could you please share the most relevant changes on company bylaws, and as to which law that give us a higher protection and independence in several fronts?

路易斯的第一個問題是問安德里亞。安德里亞，眾所周知，過去幾天有很多噪音。您能否分享一下公司章程最相關的變化，以及哪些法律在多個方面為我們提供了更高的保護和獨立性？

Thank you, Luiz, for the question. Yes, there are some protection in the Law 13,303, and some of them were even increased in our bylaws. So one of them is that, let's say, in the law, we have the 25% of independent members in the Board. And in our bylaws, we extended that to 40% of independent board members. So as we have really a Board that has independent people really acting.

謝謝路易斯提出的問題。是的，第 13,303 號法律中有一些保護，其中一些甚至在我們的章程中得到了加強。其中之一是，比方說，根據法律，我們董事會中有 25% 的獨立成員。在我們的章程中，我們將這項規定擴大到了 40% 的獨立董事會成員。因此，我們確實有一個由獨立人士真正採取行動的董事會。

We do have as well technical criteria for the selection of the Board of Directors and Executive Board members. So we have to cope with a certain criteria. Even for me to join Petrobras, I have to prove that I had 10 years of experience in finance, and years reporting to the CFO of other companies. So this is a technical criteria that is needed from us and from Board of Directors.

我們也有選擇董事會和執行董事會成員的技術標準。所以我們必須符合一定的標準。即使我要加入巴西國家石油公司，我也必須證明我有 10 年的財務經驗，並向其他公司的 CFO 報告工作多年。因此，這是我們和董事會需要的技術標準。

There is additional -- so there is additional items that require the reputation of the administration and members of the fiscal council as well. We do have other items like the -- we are in B3. We are in the special level 2 of corporate governance. And we do have to comply with the benchmark governance regulation for companies.

還有其他的——因此還有其他項目需要政府和財政委員會成員的聲譽。我們確實還有其他物品，例如——我們在 B3。我們的公司治理處於特殊二級。我們確實必須遵守公司的基準治理法規。

We do have in the law, in the 13,303 as well the obligation of the controlling entity to compensate the -- if the company is not acting according to its own, how can I say, interest, the major shareholder has to compensate the company for that. This was used in 2018, and we are very happy that we don't need to use it right now because we are coping with a price policy, as we already mentioned.

我們在法律上確實有13,303以及控股實體補償的義務 - 如果公司不按照自己的方式行事，我怎麼說呢，利益，大股東必須補償公司那。這是在 2018 年使用的，我們很高興現在不需要使用它，因為我們正在應對價格政策，正如我們已經提到的。

We do have as well -- we changed this year as well. We added some more items to our bylaws, covering some benchmarks from OECD that covers as well conflicts of interest. So if somebody from the Board has a conflicts of interest in any situation, the person has to declare the conflict of interest, but somebody else can declare the conflict of interest as well in the middle of that, how can I say, body, in the middle of the body. So we do have lots of extra protections to avoid some wrong actions against the company. So that's it. Thank you for the question.

我們確實也有——我們今年也發生了變化。我們在章程中加入了更多條款，涵蓋了經合組織的一些基準，也涵蓋了利益衝突。因此，如果董事會中的某人在任何情況下存在利益衝突，該人必須聲明利益衝突，但其他人也可以在中間聲明利益衝突，我怎麼說呢，身體，在身體的中間。所以我們確實有很多額外的保護措施來避免一些針對公司的錯誤行為。就是這樣了。感謝你的提問。

Thank you, Andreas. And the next question also from Luiz with UBS. It's for Chiarini. Chiarini, companies now met crude exports. Importers gain market share on the fuel products supply in Brazil. Could you please give more color on how the upstream versus downstream balance will play out on our results looking forward?

謝謝你，安德烈亞斯。下一個問題也來自瑞銀集團的路易斯。這是給基亞里尼的。基亞里尼公司現在滿足了原油出口的要求。進口商獲得了巴西燃料產品供應的市場份額。您能否詳細說明上游與下游的平衡將如何影響我們的未來表現？

Thank you, Carla. Thanks for your question, Luiz. We will continue to compete in the domestic market, seeking the most appropriate market share, which optimize the use of our refineries and, of course, maximize our margins in refining. Our goal always is to maximize value. Part of the market will continue to be served by other players, which also ensures transparency in our price alignment with the international market by continuously monitoring and developing new oil markets globally.

謝謝你，卡拉。謝謝你的提問，路易斯。我們將繼續在國內市場競爭，尋求最合適的市場份額，從而優化我們煉油廠的利用，當然也最大化我們的煉油利潤。我們的目標始終是價值最大化。部分市場將繼續由其他參與者提供服務，這也透過持續監控和開發全球新的石油市場，確保我們的價格與國際市場保持一致的透明度。

On the other hand, we ensure access to the best alternatives in order to maximize the value of our oils.

另一方面，我們確保獲得最佳替代品，以最大限度地發揮我們油品的價值。

In summary, we will continue to optimize the value creation for the company, combining refinery -- refining and export alternatives in the best possible way. Thank you.

總之，我們將繼續優化公司的價值創造，以最佳方式將煉油-煉油和出口替代方案結合。謝謝。

Thank you, Chiarini. The next question comes from Regis Cardoso with Crédit Suisse. Regis also sent a message to Roberto and the management team. So Roberto, this management team was wise in recognizing the achievements of previous managements and to build on their progress with no disruption. In order to pursue a responsible business plan, Petrobras achieved a grand milestone of the 2 years, including starting the process for opening the downstream in natural gas markets in Brazil. Petrobras was a clear industry outperformer in what presented itself as one of the deepest prices for the oil industry globally. When many were struggling to stay solvent, Petrobras generated cash and reduced its financial leverage. All of that was achieved despite the challenging posed by the pandemic and the necessity to look after people's health and business continuity. Congratulations for the excellent results.

謝謝你，基亞里尼。下一個問題來自瑞士信貸銀行的瑞吉斯‧卡多佐。雷吉斯也向羅伯托和管理團隊發送了一條訊息。因此，羅伯托，這個管理團隊明智地認識到前任管理層的成就，並在不受干擾的情況下繼續取得進展。為了追求負責任的商業計劃，巴西國家石油公司在兩年內實現了一個宏偉的里程碑，包括啟動了開放巴西天然氣下游市場的進程。巴西國家石油公司的表現明顯優於業界，是全球石油業價格最高的公司之一。當許多人難以保持償付能力時，巴西國家石油公司產生了現金並降低了財務槓桿。儘管大流行帶來了挑戰，並且有必要照顧人們的健康和業務連續性，但所有這些還是實現了。祝賀取得優異成績。

So he has a question also for Roberto. So Roberto, what changes were made to the health plan? How does it impact the financial statement going forward?

所以他也有一個問題要問羅伯托。那麼羅伯托，健康計畫發生了哪些變化？它對未來的財務報表有何影響？

Regis, first of all, I would like to thank you for your message. We are very flattered with your words. My thank you on behalf of myself, the executive director team and all Petrobras employees because, as I will say, people are our most important asset. It's not the result. It's not asset X or Y. It's people. People is the most important asset.

瑞吉斯，首先，我要感謝您的留言。我們對你的話感到非常受寵若驚。我代表我自己、執行董事團隊和所有巴西國家石油公司員工向你們表示感謝，因為正如我要說的，人才是我們最重要的資產。這不是結果。重要的不是資產 X 或 Y，而是人。人是最重要的資產。

Regarding your question about the health plan, well, the health plan was badly managed because we don't have a specialist in managing health insurance plans, health insurance plans. It's not our business. So it had a very big debts, and actuarial liability was huge, more -- about BRL 45 billion. And what we did to spin off the insurance plan -- the health insurance plan to a nonprofit institution with professionals with large experience in this type of business, and they are entitled to increase efficiency, reduce costs and improve the quota of sales.

關於您關於健康計劃的問題，健康計劃管理不善，因為我們沒有管理健康保險計劃、健康保險計劃的專家。這不關我們的事。所以它的債務非常大，精算負債也很大，甚至更多——大約 450 億雷亞爾。我們所做的是將保險計劃——健康保險計劃分拆給一家非營利機構，該機構擁有在此類業務方面擁有豐富經驗的專業人員，他們有權提高效率、降低成本並提高銷售配額。

One of the problems of the old scheme is that it supplied poor service to the employees. There was a lot of complaints. It was the #1 complaint made by employees. This last year was 2,894 complaints made by the employees, so we have to change.

舊計劃的問題之一是它為僱員提供的服務很差。有很多抱怨。這是員工提出的第一大投訴。去年有2894起員工投訴，所以我們必須改變。

We had 2 big problems, of balance sheet problems. The health plan, the AMS; and PETROS, the pension fund. These problems are being solved, PETROS with professional management with the 2 new plans. The newest one is defined contribution plan instead of a benefit -- defined benefit plan. And also, we prepared obligations to -- with the pension fund in order to recapitalize it. Petrobras had a 20-year debt with the pension plan. It was set in 2008 with a payment only in 2028. So part of this was prepaid and -- on the benefit of the plan as it become -- it gained liquidity and also solvency because the situation there was stable.

我們有兩個大問題，資產負債表問題。健康計劃、AMS；和 PETROS，退休基金。這些問題正在解決，PETROS 憑藉專業的管理和 2 個新計劃。最新的一項是設定繳款計劃，而不是福利設定受益計劃。此外，我們也準備了與退休基金的義務，以便對其進行資本重組。巴西國家石油公司因退休金計畫而背負20年的債務。該計劃於 2008 年制定，並於 2028 年付款。因此，其中一部分是預付的，並且從計劃的好處來看，它獲得了流動性和償付能力，因為那裡的局勢穩定。

And by the same token, we addressed the problem of the health insurance plan, which had a lot of problems that end up producing an annual net cost to Petrobras of almost BRL 3 billion. So I believe that the impact in our balance sheet and our cash flow will improve significantly over time. The plan, according to our estimates, there is a significant economy to be made over the next 10 years. Thank you.

出於同樣的原因，我們解決了健康保險計劃的問題，該計劃存在許多問題，最終導致巴西國家石油公司每年產生近 30 億雷亞爾的淨成本。因此，我相信隨著時間的推移，對我們資產負債表和現金流的影響將會顯著改善。根據我們的估計，該計劃將在未來 10 年內實現顯著的經濟效益。謝謝。

Thank you, Roberto. The next question, also from Regis, is for Capo, and it's regarding oil production that recovered in January. So it's about maintenance. Were the maintenance stoppage completed in January? Or there is more that could impact production in 2021?

謝謝你，羅伯托。下一個問題也來自 Regis，是問 Capo 的，涉及 1 月恢復的石油產量。所以這是關於維護的。1月維護停工完成了嗎？或者有更多可能影響 2021 年生產的因素？

Well, as you know, there's some stops were rescheduled for the 2021. And for sure, we have a lot of stoppage during the year. But the stops for 2021, that came from the 2020. They were rearranged, and we've also optimized the stops of the 2021.

嗯，如您所知，2021 年有一些網站被重新安排。當然，這一年我們有很多停工。但 2021 年的停止是從 2020 年開始的。它們已重新安排，我們也優化了 2021 年的網站。

So what we see today is that we have already a production in January that is in line with what we expected, and it's above the production of the last quarter. So we don't see that maintenance that we were -- we have postponed into 2021 will impact on the production or in the target of production that we told you last year, which is the 2.72 million barrels of equivalent per day, considering a variation of close and less 4%. So nothing changed. Even with this prediction in January, that is above the less part, but it was -- we have already estimated that it would be like that.

所以我們今天看到的是，我們一月份的產量已經符合我們的預期，而且高於上個季度的產量。因此，我們認為我們推遲到 2021 年進行的維護不會影響產量或我們去年告訴大家的產量目標，即考慮到變化，即每天 272 萬桶當量接近且低於 4%。所以一切都沒有改變。即使在一月份的預測中，這也高於較少的部分，但我們已經估計會是這樣。

The next question comes from Bruno Montanari with Morgan Stanley, and he's also send us a message to Roberto and the management team that I'm going to read. So congratulations for the solid results in the year with an impressive cash generation. I believe this speaks to the effort and success of strategy outlined by the company under the leadership of Roberto.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的布魯諾·蒙塔納裡（Bruno Montanari），他還向我們發送了一條我將要閱讀的消息給羅伯托和管理團隊。因此，恭喜您今年取得了堅實的業績，並產生了令人印象深刻的現金收入。我相信這說明了公司在羅伯托領導下所製定的策略所付出的努力和成功。

He also has a question for Capo. So thinking about -- Capo and Rudimar, thinking about a scenario of oil prices heading to $70 per barrel this year, what sources of upsides could come? Other than increase in cash generation at the E&P segment, would it be possible to advance projects and expect that the production growth? And related to that, can you comment on the maintenance schedule for the FPSOs now for the first months of the year?

他還有一個問題想問 Capo。那麼，Capo 和 Rudimar 考慮今年油價將升至每桶 70 美元的情況，上漲的來源可能是什麼？除了勘探與生產部門的現金產生增加之外，是否有可能推進專案並預期產量成長？與此相關，您能否評論一下今年頭幾個月 FPSO 的維護計劃？

Okay. Well, I think that I have already mentioned before that our products in our portfolio, they are resilient to a Brent of $35 per barrel. And so we have to consider that all projects have to pass this target and this -- and so if the price in the future, they confirm to be higher than the price that we estimate in our strategic plan, the anticipation could be -- we couldn't evaluate about anticipation of some projects, but we still have to check. That besides cash availability, we have to check the impact on the debt reduction strategy, which is a goal, and the capacity of the suppliers, as I mentioned, to provide additional fiscal resource because the suppliers today, they are facing some restrictions that -- due to the effects of the COVID-19.

好的。嗯，我想我之前已經提到過，我們的產品組合中的產品能夠抵禦每桶 35 美元的布蘭特原油價格。因此，我們必須考慮到所有項目都必須通過這個目標 - 因此，如果未來的價格確認高於我們在戰略計劃中估計的價格，則預期可能是 - 我們無法評估某些項目的預期，但我們仍然需要檢查。除了現金可用性之外，我們還必須檢查對債務削減策略（這是一個目標）的影響，以及供應商提供額外財政資源的能力，正如我所提到的，因為今天的供應商面臨著一些限制： -由於新冠肺炎(COVID-19) 的影響。

Regarding the other question about the maintenance schedule for the FPSOs, an din the first quarter of the 2021, we are projecting a reduction in the number of scheduled stops compared to the fourth quarter of the 2020. And together with the continued of the ramp-up of the platform P-70 and P-68, those fact will lead us to the possible increase in production in relation to the fourth quarter. So we expect to have more production at this first quarter than at the last quarter of the year.

關於 FPSO 維護計劃的另一個問題，即 2021 年第一季的維護計劃，我們預計與 2020 年第四季相比，計劃停靠的數量將會減少。隨著 P-70 和 P-68 平台的持續增加，這些事實將導致我們第四季的產量可能增加。因此，我們預計第一季的產量將高於今年最後一個季度。

Carla, I think the question was very well answered by Capo. I have nothing to add.

卡拉，我認為卡波很好地回答了這個問題。我沒什麼好補充的。

So the next question comes from Andre Hachem with Itaú BBA. He also send us a message to Roberto and the management team I'm going to read right now. So first of all, we would like to congratulate Roberto and the executives on their tenure over the past 2 years. The company has made great strides in advancing on its deleveraging effort, asset sale program and disclosure. As a whole, the company has improved tremendously.

下一個問題來自 Itaú BBA 的 Andre Hachem。他還向我們發送了一條訊息給羅伯托和我現在要閱讀的管理團隊。首先，我們要祝賀羅伯托和高階主管過去兩年的任期。該公司在去槓桿化、資產出售計劃和資訊揭露方面取得了長足進展。整體而言，公司有了巨大的進步。

So he has a question for Roberto. So Roberto, in your view, what are the greatest challenges your successor at Petrobras will face? And what suggestions would you provide him with?

所以他有一個問題要問羅伯托。那麼羅伯托，在您看來，您在巴西國家石油公司的繼任者將面臨的最大挑戰是什麼？你會給他什麼建議？

Thank you so much for your comments, very general comments about us. I thank you for -- on behalf of myself, the management team and all the Petrobras employees.

非常感謝您的評論，關於我們的非常一般的評論。我代表我自己、管理團隊和巴西國家石油公司的所有員工感謝你們。

Well, I had not have an opportunity to meet my successor. If approved by the Board of Directors or not, I don't know. And when himself or other will take the helm or is near to replace me as CEO, I would be very pleased to -- I'm open to engage into an open discussion, to make my very frank comments about the company, about suggestions and about the challenges. For the time being, it would be very -- too early to say anything about that.

好吧，我沒有機會見到我的繼任者。董事會是否批准我不知道。當他本人或其他人掌舵或即將取代我擔任執行長時，我會非常高興——我願意參與公開討論，對公司、建議和建議發表非常坦率的評論。關於挑戰。目前，對此發表任何言論還為時過早。

Thank you, Roberto. The next question comes from Christian Audi with Santander. Christian also sent you a message. So first of all, Roberto, I would like to congratulate you on the amazing work you have at Petrobras since taking over as CEO, significantly improving the strategic direction and focus of the company as well as its operational performance while strengthening the company financially. You will be missed.

謝謝你，羅伯托。下一個問題來自桑坦德銀行的克里斯蒂安·奧迪。克里斯蒂安也傳了訊息給你。首先，羅伯托，我要祝賀您自接任執行長以來在巴西國家石油公司所做的出色工作，顯著改善了公司的策略方向和重點以及營運績效，同時增強了公司的財務實力。我們會想念你的。

So he has a question also for you, Roberto. So how should we think about the asset sale program given that all the noise surrounding the pricing policy might impact the sale of refineries?

所以他也有一個問題要問你，羅伯托。那麼，考慮到圍繞定價政策的所有噪音可能會影響煉油廠的出售，我們應該如何看待資產出售計畫？

Christian, thank you so much for your comments on behalf of myself, the management team and all Petrobras employees. I don't know what's going to happen. It depends on the Board of Directors, depends on the new management of the company. So at the moment, I will make no comments about that.

克里斯蒂安，非常感謝您代表我本人、管理團隊和所有巴西國家石油公司員工的評論。我不知道會發生什麼事。這取決於董事會，取決於公司的新管理階層。所以目前我不會對此發表評論。

Thank you, Roberto. The next question comes from Bruno Amorim with Goldman Sachs. He also has a message for you. So before my questions, I'd like to thank Roberto and the team for the good work and transparency with the market during your administration.

謝謝你，羅伯托。下一個問題來自高盛的布魯諾·阿莫林。他還有一條訊息要告訴你。因此，在提問之前，我要感謝羅伯托和他的團隊在您執政期間所做的出色工作和市場透明度。

So has -- he also has a question about asset sales. So has the recent development led to any change in the asset sale program so far? Will the company move ahead with those process until the change in management is completed?

他還有一個關於資產出售的問題。那麼，到目前為止，最近的事態發展是否導致資產出售計劃發生任何變化？在管理階層變更完成之前，公司是否會繼續推進這些流程？

Well, thank you for your comments. But as far as I know, there were no changes. There were no changes. Of course, some of the bidders were concerned about the recent events, but they did not show any signal that they are going to leave the process. I hope they maintain the same position.

嗯，謝謝您的評論。但據我所知，沒有任何變化。沒有任何變化。當然，一些投標者對最近發生的事件感到擔憂，但他們沒有表現出任何要退出進程的信號。我希望他們保持同樣的立場。

Thank you, Roberto. And we have the last question from Gabriel Fonseca with XP. He also has a message for you. So before my questions, I would like to leave on record my congratulations to Roberto and his team for the excellent results achieved under their tenure in Petrobras as well for the legacy they will leave for the company.

謝謝你，羅伯托。Gabriel Fonseca 針對 XP 提出了最後一個問題。他還有一條訊息要告訴你。因此，在提問之前，我想正式向羅伯托和他的團隊表示祝賀，祝賀他們在巴西國家石油公司任職期間取得的出色成果以及他們將為公司留下的遺產。

So he has a question for Chiarini. So Chiarini, could you comment on the balance of supply and demand for oil products in use in Brazil markets? In particular, what levels of the utilization rate of the refining park are currently at? Can we say that the impact of COVID-19 over fuel demand in Brazil has already normalized? Is the company importing oil products, such as gasoline and diesel? If so, could you comment on the magnitude of these imports compared to the recent results?

所以他有一個問題要問基亞里尼。Chiarini，您能否對巴西市場使用的石油產品的供需平衡發表評論？特別是目前煉化園區的使用率處於什麼水準？我們是否可以說 COVID-19 對巴西燃料需求的影響已經正常化？該公司是否進口汽油和柴油等石油產品？如果是這樣，您能否評論一下與最近的結果相比這些進口的規模？

Thank you, Carla. I guess we already answered this question in the Portuguese version. Should we go ahead or go to the next question?

謝謝你，卡拉。我想我們已經在葡萄牙語版本中回答了這個問題。我們應該繼續還是繼續下一個問題？

Yes, please. We may have like a different audience.

是的，請。我們可能有不同的觀眾。

Okay. I'll start with the part regarding the demand because we have already recovered the COVID levels. And then I'll pass to Rodrigo Costa to complement the answer regarding the utilization factor of the refineries.

好的。我將從有關需求的部分開始，因為我們已經恢復了新冠病毒水平。然後我將請羅德里戈科斯塔補充有關煉油廠利用率的答案。

So we have already recovered the demand of the COVID -- pre-COVID-19 regarding the fuel market in Brazil. In fact, we have already grew also in diesel A about 20.8% in comparison to January '20 with very interesting result for the low sulfur diesel that grew 37.5%.

因此，我們已經恢復了 COVID-19 之前對巴西燃料市場的需求。事實上，與 20 年 1 月相比，我們的柴油 A 也成長了約 20.8%，低硫柴油的成長非常有趣，成長了 37.5%。

In terms of gasoline A, we -- in January, our sales were 8.5% higher than in January '20. Yes, also, we are importing some gasoline and diesel, just because we have now going -- we are going through the maintenance in our refineries. And I will pass to Rodrigo to complement the answer.

就汽油 A 而言，我們 1 月的銷量比 20 年 1 月高出 8.5%。是的，我們也進口一些汽油和柴油，只是因為我們現在正在對煉油廠進行維護。我將請羅德里戈來補充答案。

Thank you, Andre. We increased our utilization rate in this year. Now we are at a level of 86% rate at this moment.

謝謝你，安德烈。今年我們提高了利用率。現在我們處於 86% 的水平。

Thank you, Chiarini. Thank you, Rodrigo. We have one last questions from Bradesco with Vicente Falanga. Vicente also has a message to Roberto. So congratulations, Roberto, for the courage to affect changes. These changes were never before made in Petrobras history.

謝謝你，基亞里尼。謝謝你，羅德里戈。我們有布拉德斯科和維森特法蘭加提出的最後一個問題。維森特也向羅伯托傳達了一則訊息。因此，恭喜羅伯托，有勇氣影響改變。這些變化在巴西國家石油公司的歷史上從未發生過。

He has a question to Andrea. Andrea, what can we expect in terms of working capital for the year of 2021? 2020 was a year of solid recovery in that figure. Yet now, oil prices seem to be strong and moving up.

他有一個問題要問安德里亞。Andrea，我們對 2021 年的營運資金有何期望？2020 年是這數字穩定復甦的一年。然而現在，油價似乎堅挺並上漲。

Vicente, thank you for the question. We will keep doing -- I think we optimized the inventories in oil and all the oil products. So I think this will continue. We optimize the inventories as well of materials. So this will continue. And in terms of even the receivables, we are working with the financial institutions because we believe there are working capital transactions that can be done to reduce the term of those payables. So we are engaging with our financial institutions to do transactions, to discount receivables. And we are doing as well transactions where we are getting support for our suppliers.

維森特，謝謝你的提問。我們將繼續這樣做——我認為我們優化了石油和所有石油產品的庫存。所以我認為這種情況將會持續下去。我們也優化材料的庫存。所以這將繼續下去。甚至就應收帳款而言，我們正在與金融機構合作，因為我們相信可以進行營運資本交易來縮短這些應付帳款的期限。因此，我們正在與我們的金融機構合作進行交易，對應收帳款進行折現。我們也在進行交易，為供應商提供支援。

So I believe this work in the working capital arena is going to continue in 2021 very strong. This is a very important focus for us as well. So this will be very important in 2021.

因此，我相信營運資本領域的這項工作將在 2021 年繼續強勁進行。這對我們來說也是一個非常重要的焦點。所以這在2021年將非常重要。

Okay. So thank you, Andrea. Vicente has another question, and it's for Chiarini. So Chiarini, the media reported Brazil has the risk of being under supplied, stating that Petrobras will not be able to comply with its diesel cargoes in March. Is any of that true? And what's Petrobras doing to avoid the risk of fuel shortage?

好的。謝謝你，安德里亞。維森特還有另一個問題，是問基亞里尼的問題。因此基亞里尼（Chiarini）媒體通報巴西有供應不足的風險，並表示巴西國家石油公司（Petrobras）將無法滿足3月的柴油貨物需求。這是真的嗎？巴西國家石油公司正在採取哪些措施來避免燃料短缺的風險？

Thank you for your question, Vicente. First of all, it's important to say that the Brazilian market is served by several players. Petrobras, of course, is a very relevant supplier, but it has been the long time since trading companies and distributors have become relevant actors regarding imports of gasoline and diesel in Brazil. So having said that, Petrobras alone cannot predict any risks of few fuel shortages in the country as a relevant part of the market is still served by third parties.

謝謝你的提問，維森特。首先，必須指出的是，巴西市場由多家參與者提供服務。當然，巴西國家石油公司是一個非常相關的供應商，但貿易公司和分銷商已經很久沒有成為巴西汽油和柴油進口的相關參與者了。因此，話雖如此，巴西國家石油公司無法獨自預測該國燃料短缺的任何風險，因為市場的相關部分仍然由第三方提供服務。

As for our portion, Petrobras has contractual agreements with our customers, and we'll serve all of them without any exception. There were requests from some customers for an increase in the volume of products far beyond our contractual obligation, and Petrobras is not only fulfilling the contractual volumes of delivery we are paid, but also is offering volumes far beyond agreed volumes. So we are meeting our commitments, and we are going further.

至於我們的部分，巴西國家石油公司與我們的客戶簽訂了合約協議，我們將毫無例外地為所有客戶提供服務。有些客戶要求增加產品數量，遠遠超出我們的合約義務，而巴西國家石油公司不僅履行了我們收到的合約交付量，而且提供的數量也遠遠超出了約定的數量。因此，我們正在履行我們的承諾，並且我們會走得更遠。

In relation to reducing the risk of fuel shortages, we are also keeping, following the pricing policy, which, as all you know, is aligned with the international market. Thanks.

在降低燃料短缺風險方面，我們也一直遵循與國際市場接軌的定價政策。謝謝。

Thank you, Chiarini. So with that, we conclude our Q&A session. If you have any further questions, you can send it to our own Investor Relations team.

謝謝你，基亞里尼。我們的問答環節到此結束。如果您還有任何其他問題，可以將其發送給我們自己的投資者關係團隊。

Roberto will now make his final remarks. So please, Roberto?

羅伯托現在將發表最後演說。那麼，羅伯托，可以嗎？

Well, my thank you for you -- for attending our video conference to analysts, investors. And I'd say that we accomplished our mission. Our mission was to restructure Petrobras, and we -- according our judgment, according to the judgment of the market, we make several advances.

好吧，我感謝你們參加我們面向分析師和投資者的視訊會議。我想說我們完成了我們的使命。我們的使命是重組巴西國家石油公司，根據我們的判斷，根據市場的判斷，我們取得了一些進展。

However, there's much more to be done. The -- we won only some battles, but not the war. So several battles have to be fought in the future, and Petrobras should prevail, should win. Petrobras has human capital, high-quality human capital, knowledge, technological knowledge, has the capacity to innovate and to be -- very easy to win. With the combination of these 3 elements, Petrobras has now a culture of value creation, is improved significantly, and I would say that's firing on all cylinders.

然而，還有很多事情要做。我們只贏了一些戰鬥，但沒有贏得戰爭。因此，未來還要打幾場戰鬥，巴西石油公司應該獲勝，應該獲勝。巴西國家石油公司擁有人力資本、高素質人力資本、知識、技術知識、創新能力和能力——非常容易獲勝。透過這三個要素的結合，巴西國家石油公司現在擁有顯著改善的價值創造文化，我想說，這是全速運轉。

Thank you so much. I appreciate it very much of this contact, these very frank and transparent conversations with you over the last couple of years. And see you later. Thank you. Bye.

太感謝了。我非常感謝過去幾年與您的這次接觸、這些非常坦誠和透明的對話。稍後見。謝謝。再見。