必能寶 (PBI) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the third-quarter 2025 Pitney Bowes, Inc. earnings conference call. Joining us today are Chief Executive Officer, Kurt Wolf; Chief Financial Officer, Paul Evans; and Director, Investor Relations, Alex Brown. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 Pitney Bowes, Inc. 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。今天與我們一同出席的有執行長庫爾特·沃爾夫；首席財務官保羅·埃文斯；以及投資者關係總監亞歷克斯·布朗。（操作人員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Director, Investor Relations, Alex Brown.

現在我很高興將電話轉交給投資者關係總監亞歷克斯·布朗。

Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us. Included in today's presentation are forward-looking statements about future business and financial performance.

下午好，感謝各位的參與。今天的簡報中包含有關未來業務和財務表現的前瞻性陳述。

Forward-looking statements involve risk along with uncertainties that could cause actual results to be materially different from our projections. More information about these items can be found in our earnings press release, our 2024 Form 10-K, and other reports filed with the SEC that are located on our website at www.pb.com and by clicking on Investor Relations. Please keep in mind that we do not undertake any obligation to update forward-looking statements as a result of new information or developments.

前瞻性陳述涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與我們的預測有重大差異。有關這些項目的更多信息，請參閱我們的盈利新聞稿、2024 年 10-K 表格以及向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他報告，這些報告可在我們的網站 www.pb.com 上找到，點擊“投資者關係”即可查看。請注意，我們不承擔因新資訊或事態發展而更新前瞻性聲明的任何義務。

Also included in today's presentation are non-GAAP measures, specifically EBIT, EBITDA, EPS, and free cash flow, all on an adjusted basis. You can find reconciliations for these items through the appropriate GAAP measures in the tables attached to our press release. We have also provided a slide presentation and a spreadsheet with historical segment information on our Investor Relations website.

今天的演示還包括非GAAP指標，特別是EBIT、EBITDA、EPS和自由現金流，所有這些都是經過調整的。您可以在我們的新聞稿附件表格中找到這些項目透過適當的 GAAP 指標進行的調整。我們也在投資者關係網站上提供了幻燈片簡報和包含歷史分部資訊的電子表格。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Kurt Wolf.

接下來，我想把電話交給我們的執行長庫爾特·沃爾夫。

Thank you, Alex, and thanks to everybody who is joining today's call. I trust that everybody has had a chance to review our press release and my letter. That said, I'd like to touch on a few key points before going to Q&A.

謝謝你，Alex，也謝謝今天參加電話會議的各位。我相信大家都已經有機會審閱了我們的新聞稿和我的信件。話雖如此，在進入問答環節之前，我想先談談幾個關鍵點。

We reported continued profitability improvements for the quarter. However, we expect the year to come in around the low end of our range for revenue, EBIT, and free cash flow. To be clear, this is primarily due to issues with forecasting and has nothing to do with operational factors, which have in fact been more positive than negative during the quarter. With respect to the forecasting issues, these are problems that have long plagued the company and I'm working closely with Paul and his team to fix our forecasting process.

本季我們報告獲利能力持續改善。不過，我們預計今年的收入、息稅前利潤和自由現金流將處於我們預期範圍的下限附近。需要說明的是，這主要是由於預測問題造成的，與營運因素無關，事實上，本季營運因素利大於弊。關於預測問題，這些問題長期困擾著公司，我正在與保羅和他的團隊密切合作，以改善我們的預測流程。

Moving to our strategic review, we are making significant progress. We continue to enhance our talent, structure, and processes to support future growth of the business. Additionally, we are compiling and evaluating a set of profitable growth opportunities. What we are learning in the strategic review is giving increased optimism about the outlook for the business, which supports our decision to spend an additional $161 million on share repurchases during the quarter.

接下來進行策略評估，我們取得了顯著進展。我們將持續提升人才水準、完善組織架構和優化流程，以支援業務的未來發展。此外，我們正在收集和評估一系列有利可圖的成長機會。我們在策略評估中了解到的情況，讓我們對公司前景更加樂觀，這也支持了我們在本季額外花費 1.61 億美元用於股票回購的決定。

In summary, we are still tripping up on past mistakes, but are aggressively attacking and fixing issues as they arise, making us a stronger company. For this reason, my optimism about the future of Pitney Bowes only continues to grow stronger.

總而言之，我們仍然會犯一些過去的錯誤，但我們正在積極主動地解決出現的問題，這使我們成為一家更強大的公司。也因為如此，我對必能寶公司的未來越來越樂觀。

With that, let's open the call for questions.

接下來，我們開始接受提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Kartik Mehta, Northcoast Research.

Kartik Mehta，北海岸研究公司。

Kurt, just wanted to get a little bit more insight into SendTech. Obviously, the revenue declines are decelerating, which is a positive. And you've talked about, obviously, the IMI migration as we move past that. You know, as you look at that business, what do you anticipate the trajectory over the next 12, 18 months for that business?

Kurt，我只是想更深入了解SendTech。顯然，收入下降速度正在放緩，這是一個積極的信號。顯然，您也談到了我們接下來要進行的 IMI 遷移。你知道，當你審視這家企業時，你預期它在未來 12 到 18 個月內的發展軌跡會是怎麼樣的？

Yeah. With respect to SendTech, as you did mention, the IMI migration, we're largely getting past that. You can see that in the results this quarter. We do expect that should continue to be a benefit in Q4. By Q1, it should be fully lapped. So I think, by and large, the impact of the difficult comps from the IMI migration are largely behind us.

是的。關於 SendTech，正如您所提到的 IMI 遷移，我們基本上已經克服了這個問題。從本季的業績可以看出這一點。我們預計這在第四季度仍將是一項利好因素。到第一季度，應該已經完全跑完一圈了。所以我認為，總的來說，IMI遷移帶來的困難比較的影響已經基本過去了。

So the revenue decline we saw in Q3 probably is a realistic look of where things stand for now. And the question becomes -- I'm incredibly excited to have Todd Everett join the company from the Board. He has a strong background in the shipping space. He's an incredible operator. He was excellent at operating Newgistics before it was sold to Pitney Bowes. I think he's done a lot of great work already. Happy to answer more about the work he's doing. But he's evaluating opportunities to accelerate growth.

因此，我們在第三季看到的營收下滑可能真實反映了目前的市場狀況。因此，問題就變成了——我非常高興托德·埃弗雷特能夠從董事會加入公司。他在航運領域擁有深厚的背景。他是一位非常出色的營運者。在 Newgistics 被 Pitney Bowes 收購之前，他是一位非常優秀的營運商。我認為他已經做了很多很棒的工作。我很樂意回答更多關於他所從事的工作的問題。但他正在評估加速成長的機會。

But again, one of the big focuses is profitable growth going forward. So the outlook for various parts of the business may be a little different than previously discussed. One of the big areas I would highlight is we've been so focused on our shipping solutions that so much attention has gone there that we've probably under-invested in opportunities that exist within the mailing business. I don't want to speak on Todd's behalf, but I think there are some things that we could be doing, given our position in the market, to help decelerate the decline of the postal business.

但再次強調，未來的一大重點是實現獲利成長。因此，公司各個業務領域的前景可能與先前討論的略有不同。我想重點強調的一點是，我們一直過於關注我們的運輸解決方案，以至於我們可能對郵寄業務中存在的機會投入不足。我不想代表托德發言，但我認為，鑑於我們在市場上的地位，我們可以做一些事情來幫助減緩郵政業務的衰退。

We have no illusions about the fact that the space is declining, but I think there's things we can do to slow that decline.

我們很清楚這個領域正在衰落，但我認為我們可以採取一些措施來減緩這種衰落。

And then, Kurt, in your letter, you talked about the pre-sort business. It seems like some of the smaller competitors might be having some issues. I'm wondering your ability to continue to consolidate that particular business. Are there opportunities, or is it just better to go get the business on your own and just win the market share?

然後，庫爾特，你在信中談到了預分揀業務。看來一些規模較小的競爭對手可能遇到了一些問題。我想了解您是否有能力繼續鞏固那項業務。是否存在機會？還是最好自己去開拓業務，贏得市場佔有率？

I'd say we're pursuing an all-of-the-above strategy. And for some context, July of 2024, there was a significant increase in the (technical difficulty) work share discount. So profitability across the industry took a -- became significantly improved starting in Q3 of last year. So as we continue to talk to potential acquisition targets, given the trajectory of their business, those conversations largely died out.

我認為我們正在採取一種包羅萬象的策略。補充一些背景信息，2024 年 7 月，（技術難題）工作分享折扣大幅增加。因此，整個行業的獲利能力從去年第三季開始顯著提高。因此，儘管我們繼續與潛在的收購目標進行洽談，但鑑於他們的業務發展軌跡，這些洽談基本上都無疾而終。

And one of the reasons we do talk about some of the issues we're seeing, we won't get into too many details, but there are signs of financial issues with some of these companies. But we are all of a sudden getting callbacks from companies that six months ago, a year ago, were saying they had no interest in selling. So there's definitely more interest given the way that the pricing competition heated up and has depressed margins for a lot of these players as well as for us.

我們之所以要談論我們看到的一些問題，其中一個原因是，我們不會透露太多細節，但這些公司確實存在一些財務問題。但我們突然接到一些公司的回電，而這些公司在六個月前、一年前還表示他們對出售沒有興趣。鑑於價格競爭日益激烈，導致許多廠商（包括我們）的利潤率下降，因此人們對這方面的興趣肯定會更高。

And then just one last question. Maybe just from a free cash flow standpoint, I think you maintained your guidance. So I think that would imply a pretty big fourth quarter. Free cash flow quarter, if you could just walk through how you're getting to that or maybe what some of the puts and takes are for that.

最後一個問題。或許僅從自由現金流的角度來看，我認為你維持了先前的預期。所以我認為這預示著第四季會有相當大的成長。如果您能詳細說明您是如何得出自由現金流季度數據的，或者談談其中的一些利弊分析，那就太好了。

Yeah. Okay. This is Paul. Good afternoon, Kartik. Look, I mean, where we're sort of coalescing around is around the [330] (technical difficulty). Look, the quarter ended mid-week, and obviously, there were payments that came in shortly thereafter for the quarter to happen. We've had a very strong pickup in the first part of this quarter, and to get this confidence. I mean, we still got work to do, but we have confidence that we'll sort of pull us around the 330 range.

是的。好的。這是保羅。下午好，卡爾蒂克。你看，我的意思是，我們現在逐漸凝聚起來的地方在於…[330]（技術難題）。你看，季度在周中結束，顯然，為了完成這個季度，之後不久就收到了款項。本季前半段我們取得了非常強勁的成長，也因此獲得了信心。我的意思是，我們還有很多工作要做，但我們有信心能把成績拉到 330 左右。

Anthony Lebiedzinski, Sidoti.

Anthony Lebiedzinski，Sidoti。

First, I was just wondering if you guys could maybe just comment. I'm just curious about the cadence of revenue as you went from July through September. Were there any variations? I know, Kurt, you talked about some flaws in your forecasting. So just wondering if there was any big variations from month to month as you went through the quarter in both of your segments?

首先，我想問大家能不能發表一下意見。我只是好奇你們從7月到9月的收入變化。是否存在任何差異？我知道，庫爾特，你之前也提到你的預測有一些缺陷。所以我想問一下，在你們兩個業務部門中，本季每個月的數據是否有較大的波動？

Yeah. So Anthony, I appreciate the question. No, there's been nothing really that's stood out from a month-to-month variance. What really -- the first indication we had is what we're seeing internally, the business is operating well. As an example, within pre-sort, I believe we've not lost a single customer since June, and we've been picking up our business

是的。安東尼，感謝你的提問。不，每個月的變化都沒有特別突出的地方。實際上——我們得到的第一個跡像是，從內部來看，公司運作良好。舉例來說，在預分揀業務方面，我相信自六月以來我們沒有流失任何一位客戶，而且我們的業務一直在成長。

So as we were progressing through the quarter, it did become a point of question of how are we operating well and not getting the financial results we were looking at. At that point, Paul and I got heavily involved, started to dig into the processes involved with forecasting, identified some process issues. Some -- you're an analyst. You do forecasting yourself. There's just a lot that goes into it, particularly when you're at a company.

因此，隨著季度的推進，我們開始質疑，為什麼我們運作良好卻沒有獲得我們預期的財務表現。那時，我和保羅深入參與其中，開始研究預測流程，並發現了一些流程問題。有些——你是分析師。你自己做預測。這其中涉及很多方面，尤其是在公司工作的時候。

We have access to tremendous amounts of data, just understanding how we were processing data, assumptions we were making, et cetera. So that sort of is what brought us up. It wasn't any sort of monthly variation. It just was the fact that the business is performing well, and the financials weren't going as expected relative to budget. So when the operations are doing as well as you expect and the financials aren't quite as strong as you expect, there's clearly an issue with our forecasting.

我們掌握著大量數據，光是了解我們如何處理數據、我們做了哪些假設等等，就顯得特別重要。這就是我們成長的緣由。這並非某種月度波動。事實是，公司業績良好，但財務狀況卻沒有達到預算預期。所以，當營運情況如預期般良好，而財務狀況卻不如預期般強勁時，顯然我們的預測有問題。

And I can assure you, Paul and I are very serious about this. We both stepped in. This has been a problem that's plagued the company for far too long. During '22 and '23, it was something that I talked quite publicly about, the problems with forecasting. It's something that I've now been able to come to understand what the issues are, and we are taking this very seriously.

我可以向你保證，保羅和我對此事非常認真。我們倆都出手相助。這個問題困擾公司太久了。在 2022 年和 2023 年，我曾公開談論預測方面的問題。我現在已經能夠理解問題所在，我們正在非常認真地對待此事。

We brought in outside help on it, and we're doing a lot internally to fix this once and for all so that we can be much more accurate in our forecasting. And again, this isn't just about providing guidance. This is, you know, we need to make significant investment decisions, business decisions. And if we don't have incredibly accurate data, we're going to end up making worse decisions.

我們引入了外部幫助，內部也在做很多工作來徹底解決這個問題，以便我們可以更準確地進行預測。再次強調，這不僅僅是提供指導。你知道，我們需要做出一些重大的投資決策和商業決策。如果我們沒有極其準確的數據，最終只會做出更糟糕的決定。

So it's unfortunate that we had this issue with our forecasting, but it's emblematic of what we're doing within the organization. We continue to identify issues. We aggressively get after them, fix them, and it makes us a better company for it. It's frustrating to once again not be able to give great news on the forecasting front like we might have hoped for, but I think we're a better business as we continue to uncover these issues.

因此，很遺憾我們的預測出現了這個問題，但這恰恰反映了我們組織內部正在做的事情。我們持續發現問題。我們會積極追查並解決問題，這使我們成為一家更好的公司。再次未能像我們希望的那樣在預測方面帶來好消息，這令人沮喪，但我認為，隨著我們不斷發現這些問題，我們的業務也會變得更好。

That makes a lot of sense. And then turning to pre-sort, sounds like you have been able to win back some previously lost clients. So with that in mind, when would it be reasonable to assume that pre-sort gets back to sales growth on a year-over-year basis?

這很有道理。然後轉向預分類，聽起來你們已經成功贏回了一些之前失去的客戶。因此，考慮到這一點，什麼時候才能合理地認為預分揀業務的銷售額能夠恢復到年增速呢？

So, Anthony, I'll take that question. So I think that assumption right there, and that's one thing that Kurt and I really dug into numbers, and we looked at the budget that was the basis of our forecast. One, it wasn't anticipated that how our competitors would use the sort of if I can call it a premium on the rate case, to sort of go take share from us, and they bought that share. And then obviously how long does it take to get that back?

那麼，安東尼，這個問題就由我來回答吧。所以我認為這個假設是正確的，這也是我和庫爾特深入研究的數字，我們查看了作為我們預測基礎的預算。第一，我們沒有預料到競爭對手會利用這種（如果我可以稱之為）費率溢價的方式來搶占我們的市場份額，而且他們還買下了這些市場份額。那麼，很顯然，要多久才能把錢要回來？

And so that's -- well, will it come back to us? It hasn't come back to us yet, but we're aggressively going after it. So there's a lapse in time. You lose it. They get up with somebody else for a while. We go back in. What can we do better? And then there's a bidding opportunity and so -- and we're close on something to take it back. So I think, you know, I'm optimistic about the volumes for pre-sort next year.

所以，這——嗯，它會回到我們身邊嗎？雖然還沒有結果，但我們正在積極追蹤。所以中間有一段時間間隔。你把它弄丟了。他們和別人在一起待了一段時間。我們回去。我們還能做得更好嗎？然後就有了競標機會，所以——我們離把它奪回來只差一步之遙了。所以我覺得，你知道，我對明年預分揀量持樂觀態度。

Okay, that's good to hear. And then thinking about the new cost cuts, the $50 million to $60 million that you talked about, will those be mostly through corporate unallocated or will that flow through the different segments? Just maybe help us understand how to model those cost cuts?

好的，聽到這個消息很高興。那麼，關於您提到的新的成本削減措施，即 5000 萬至 6000 萬美元，這些削減措施主要是透過公司未分配預算來實現，還是會分散到各個部門？或許可以幫我們理解如何對這些成本削減進行建模？

Sure. I mean, it's across the company. So some of them are in the per year model, the G&A level. Some were sort of hit higher up. But, you know, we went across all, all Kurt's leaders looked at that. And so it was really a management-led effort to refine our costs. And through that, you know, we identified some very good opportunities.

當然。我的意思是，這種情況在整個公司都存在。所以其中有些是按年計算的，屬於一般及行政費用水準。有些受害者是被擊中了位置更高的位置。但是，你知道，我們仔細研究了庫爾特的所有領導層，他們都考慮過這個問題。因此，這實際上是管理層主導的降低成本的努力。透過這種方式，我們發現了一些非常好的機會。

Look, we'll get to the point where we're always going to look to drive costs out of our business, that every healthy company should do that. And this one, you know, I'm new to the role. Kurt's relatively new to the role. He's got a whole new, relatively speaking, new leadership team. So we challenge everybody as operators to look at what you have and what do we really need really going forward. And so that's what you're seeing here. And these benefits should be all realized by the end of the '26.

你看，我們最終都會想辦法降低業務成本，每個健康的公司都應該這麼做。你知道，我是第一次擔任這個角色。庫爾特擔任這個職位的時間不長。他現在擁有一支全新的、相對而言的領導團隊。因此，我們呼籲所有業者審視自身所擁有的資源，以及未來真正需要的是什麼。所以這就是你現在看到的。到 2026 年底，所有這些好處都應該得以實現。

Okay. Got it. Okay. Lastly, just returning quickly to pre-sort, given the competitive dynamics there, it sounds like there are some struggling operators. Would those be opportunities perhaps for acquisitions for you, or do you just want to focus on getting back to sales growth at pre-sort before you start looking at potential acquisitions?

好的。知道了。好的。最後，簡單回到預分類環節，考慮到該領域的競爭動態，似乎有些業者處境艱難。這些對您來說是否是收購機會？還是您只想在開始考慮潛在收購之前，先專注於恢復預分類階段的銷售成長？

No, Anthony, these acquisitions are so accretive that we're always looking at them. And by the way, as I said, that's sort of one of the signs that we're seeing that the pricing is really affecting players in the market is the fact that nine months ago, none of the players had any interest in selling. And we're starting to get inbound calls from people that are looking to potentially sell their business. And we're always in the market to make these acquisitions.

不，安東尼，這些收購帶來的收益如此之大，我們一直在關注它們。順便說一句，正如我所說，我們看到價格確實影響了市場上的玩家，其中一個跡像是，九個月前，沒有任何玩家對出售感興趣。我們開始接到一些來電，來電者表示他們可能想要出售自己的企業。我們始終在市場上尋找合適的收購機會。

They just drop to the bottom line. And again, it's one of the frustrations over the volume that we did lose. This is a high fixed cost business in the short term. So losing the volumes that we did, the amount of the profitability that we lost by not retaining those customers, was pretty dramatic. So bringing in these new -- if we do make acquisitions, the degree to which revenue drops to the bottom line, particularly given that we now have a little of excess capacity in our facilities is just incredibly high. So we're absolutely in the market to make acquisitions.

它們最終都會降到最低點。再次強調，這是我們損失銷售帶來的挫折感之一。短期內，這是一項固定成本很高的業務。因此，我們失去的銷量，以及因未能留住這些客戶而損失的利潤，都是相當巨大的。因此，如果我們進行收購，引入這些新的——收入下降到利潤的程度，特別是考慮到我們現在的工廠有一些過剩產能，是極其高的。所以，我們絕對有信心進行收購。

Aaron Kimson, Citizens.

Aaron Kimson，市民。

Kurt, you mentioned in the letter that you recently completed your review of the leadership team. Obviously, there have been a lot of changes at the executive and Board level since you took the reins in May. Are you comfortable with the leaders you have in place now? And then if we think a level down about your directs, do you have any thoughts on when the business may have the continuity you desire and be operating more of a BAU state?

庫爾特，你在信中提到你最近完成了對領導團隊的評估。顯然，自從您五月接任以來，高階主管層和董事會層面都發生了許多變化。你對目前的領導團隊滿意嗎？那麼，如果我們再深入思考您的直接主管，您認為企業何時才能實現您所期望的連續性，並更多地以日常營運狀態運作？

Absolutely. Yeah. Aaron, you know, welcome to the call, and thank you for joining. Yeah, as far as the leadership team goes, I'm incredibly happy with the, as Paul mentioned, I have, you know, seven direct reports. Incredibly happy with the team we have. It's the right people. Those who were bought into the level of accountability and drive for excellence that we expect of everybody at this organization. Anybody who wasn't bought into that is no longer with the company, at least within the executive team, and everybody who is here is 100% bought in.

絕對地。是的。亞倫，歡迎你參加通話，謝謝你的加入。是的，就領導團隊而言，我非常滿意，正如保羅所提到的，我有七名直接下屬。對我們現有的團隊非常滿意。就是合適的人選。那些認同我們對本組織所有成員所期望的責任感和追求卓越的精神的人。任何不認同這種理念的人都已經離開了公司，至少在管理團隊中是如此，而留在這裡的每個人都百分之百認同這種理念。

And as you can imagine, anything starts from the top down, so we have the right leadership team. That leadership team -- and by the way, that informed the $50million to $60 million in cost cuts after I was -- as I worked through this process myself, Paul and the rest of the leadership team did the same within their organization. And I think it's really important to highlight that previous cost cuts were an effort largely driven by outside consultants to say, here's an opportunity to reduce costs.

正如你所想，任何事情都是從上而下進行的，所以我們擁有合適的領導團隊。那個領導團隊——順便說一句，在我之後，正是他們促成了 5000 萬至 6000 萬美元的成本削減——在我親身經歷這個過程時，保羅和領導團隊的其他成員也在他們的組織內部做了同樣的事情。我認為非常重要的是要強調，先前的成本削減主要是由外部顧問推動的，他們認為這是一個降低成本的機會。

This wasn't an effort to reduce costs. This was an effort to get better as a business. This is leaders that are restructuring their organizations. I could go division by division, but almost every corporate function in almost -- in business unit has changed their organizational structure to better meet the needs of the business. Within that, they've addressed what processes -- they're addressing what processes don't we need to do, and how can we be better on a go-forward basis.

這並非為了降低成本。這是為了提升企業營運水準而做出的努力。這是正在重組組織的領導者。我可以逐個部門進行分析，但幾乎每個業務部門的每個職能部門都改變了其組織結構，以便更好地滿足業務需求。在此基礎上，他們探討了哪些流程——他們正在探討哪些流程我們不需要做，以及我們如何在未來做得更好。

So that's really what has driven the $50 million to $60 million of cost cuts. It was not the pursuit of cost cuts per se, but just this effort being pushed down the organization. And again, I feel incredibly fortunate to have the leadership team that I do that's doing such an excellent job of it. I think we have stability within the leadership team, and as they're working with their group, I think stability is developing the next years down.

所以，這才是導致成本削減 5,000 萬至 6,000 萬美元的真正原因。並非刻意追求削減成本，而是這項工作被強行推下整個組織。再次強調，我非常幸運能擁有這樣優秀的領導團隊，他們做得非常好。我認為我們的領導團隊很穩定，隨著他們與團隊成員的合作，我認為未來幾年這種穩定性將會持續下去。

And I would say just as a general comment about Pitney Bowes, I maybe say this too much, but I can't emphasize enough as a shareholder how happy everybody should be with the employees that represent the company that you're an investor in. We've made a lot of changes in the last 18 months, a lot of cost cuts, a lot of challenge to these employees, and everybody shows up with a good attitude every day. Everybody asks what more they can do to help this company.

關於 Pitney Bowes，我只想說一句，也許我說得有點多了，但作為股東，我必須強調，每個人都應該對代表你所投資公司的員工感到滿意。在過去的 18 個月裡，我們進行了許多變革，大幅削減了成本，給員工們提出了許多挑戰，但每個人每天都以積極的態度投入工作。大家都在問，他們還能為這家公司做些什麼。

I know there's been a lot of change, but what I would say is I don't think there's any change needed in terms of the bulk of the employees at the company. We have a great employee base, do a great job. So I think, you know, they provide stability even as we've been changing some of the leadership.

我知道公司發生了很多變化，但我認為就公司的大部分員工而言，並不需要做出任何改變。我們擁有一支優秀的員工隊伍，他們工作出色。所以我覺得，即使我們一直在更換一些領導階層，他們也能提供穩定性。

That's really helpful. And then as a follow-up, can you dig a bit further into the misalignment of incentives in GFS and how you're approaching the realignment future of that org?

這真的很有幫助。其次，能否進一步探討 GFS 中激勵機制錯置的問題，以及您該如何著手解決組織未來的重組問題？

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, so GFS, you know, is not its own business unit. It was a loosely organized, it was like, I don't even know what you want to call it. It was a part of our structure. And things financial would go through GFS. So you'd have situations and things like this would come up where we would, you know, so if SendTech would try to sell a meter, GFS would ultimately have approval over the actual credit, you know, because we're leasing these meters.

是的，絕對的。是的，GFS 並不是一個獨立的業務部門。它組織得比較鬆散，我什至不知道該怎麼形容它。這是我們組織結構的一部分。財務方面的事情都要透過GFS處理。所以就會出現這樣的情況，例如，如果 SendTech 試圖出售電錶，GFS 最終將對實際的信用額度擁有批准權，因為我們是租賃這些電錶的。

If we were offering them purchase power for revolving credit to use that meter, that was all through GFS. And so what could end up happening is if GFS's attitude was we don't want any credit loss, and SendTech's saying this is an incredibly lucrative deal. You had two peers essentially looking at each other in a standoff saying this, you know, we're not willing to, you know, they created issues.

如果我們向他們提供循環信貸的購買力來使用該電錶，那都是透過 GFS 實現的。因此，最終可能會出現的情況是，GFS 的態度是“我們不想有任何信用損失”，而 SendTech 則表示這是一筆非常有利可圖的交易。兩個同行基本上是僵持著互相看著對方，說著這樣的話，你知道，我們不願意，你知道，他們製造了問題。

So what we've done is, you know, SendTech ultimately, GFS was reporting through SendTech financially. So you know, Todd now owns SendTech. You know, all, you know, the credit decision. If something's going on to the SendTech balance sheet, for lack of a better word, the approval of that, it's a business decision by Todd that he can evaluate what's the opportunity in the sale and what's the credit risk before those two decisions were differentiated.

所以，我們所做的，你知道，SendTech 最終是透過 GFS 進行財務報告的。你知道嗎，托德現在擁有 SendTech 公司。你知道，所有的一切，你知道，信貸決定。如果 SendTech 的資產負債表上發生了什麼事，或者說，是否批准這件事，這是 Todd 做出的商業決定，他可以評估出售的機會和信用風險，然後再區分這兩個決定。

So it led to incredibly low credit losses in the past, but it also led to a lot of failed sales that would have been profitable. And it's led to a lot of difficulty in the sales process. So what should be a very seamless customer experience became incredibly difficult going through two different organizations that were focused on different aspects of a deal. So it was just unworkable. It just was really incredibly inefficient. So hopefully that gives just one example of a problem that would arise.

因此，過去信貸損失非常低，但也導致了許多原本可以獲利的銷售失敗。這給銷售過程帶來了很多困難。因此，原本應該非常順暢的客戶體驗，卻因為要經過兩個專注於交易不同方面的不同組織而變得極其困難。所以這根本行不通。它效率真的非常低。希望這能說明問題的一個面向。

Yeah, Aaron, if I could say what it's really, and somebody pointed this out to me, it's analogous to, you know, we were selling the car and also the gas. And so we were okay to sell the car, but then when it came to sell them the gas, the other side said, we don't think they're credit worthy to sell them gas.

是的，亞倫，如果我能說出它的真正含義，有人也向我指出了這一點，這就像我們既賣汽車又賣汽油一樣。所以，我們同意把車賣給他們，但是到了賣汽油的時候，對方卻說，我們認為他們的信用不足以賣汽油給他們。

And that really hit home with me. And so obviously that inefficiency, that decision now that rests in Todd's world. It doesn't mean that we're going to lower standards that we want to take on excess counterparty credit risk. We won't do that. We'll still be record, but we're not going to let this misalignment of interest stop us from servicing a customer.

這件事真的讓我感觸很深。所以很明顯，這種效率低下，現在這個決定取決於托德了。但這並不代表我們會降低承擔過高交易對手信用風險的標準。我們不會那樣做。我們仍將保持紀錄，但我們不會讓這種利益衝突阻止我們為客戶提供服務。

And not to over harp on this point, but at one point, this is after we were already trying to fix the problem. I received an email from a customer that had bought multiple meters from us that was complaining that they could not use their meter because they weren't getting approved for the use of purchase power. So I mean, it just doesn't make -- it just was really -- and that's what I mean in terms of this opportunity in mailing.

我不想過度強調這一點，但有一次，這種情況發生在我們已經嘗試解決這個問題之後。我收到一位從我們這裡購買了多個電錶的客戶的電子郵件，他抱怨說，由於沒有獲得購電許可，他無法使用電錶。所以我的意思是，這根本不是——它真的——這就是我所說的郵寄行銷的機會。

We have the best product. We have the best services. We have -- you know, we're peerless in every way, but we are creating a nightmare for our customers. And again, that's what I'm driving at is a lot of this restructuring we're doing is trying to get better as a business, and the $50 million to $60 million of savings is a side benefit.

我們的產品是最好的。我們提供最好的服務。你知道，我們在各方面都無可匹敵，但我們正在為客戶製造一場噩夢。我再次強調，我們進行的這些重組很大程度上是為了讓公司變得更好，而節省 5,000 萬到 6,000 萬美元只是一個附帶的好處。

Matthew Swope, Baird.

馬修‧斯沃普，貝爾德。

Could I go back to pre-sort and, you know, Kurt, I think you alluded to it, but I think we all maybe underestimated the decline this quarter there. And to see a $17 million decline in revenue drive a $13 million decline in EBITDA and EBIT. I know you talked about fixed cost absorption, but can you talk about sort of how that incremental margin or decremental margin maybe in this case works?

我可以回到排序之前的情況嗎？你知道，庫爾特，我想你之前也提到過，但我認為我們可能都低估了本季的下滑幅度。營收下降 1,700 萬美元，導致 EBITDA 和 EBIT 下降 1,300 萬美元。我知道您談到了固定成本吸收，但您能否談談在這種情況下增量利潤或減量利潤是如何運作的？

So okay, so here's what happens. I mean, once you overcome your fixed cost in that business -- this high-volume business, and you recognize that your labor has capacity, you can sort of sweat them. Any additional throughput you have from that really is just profit. In large part, it just falls through the bottom line.

好吧，事情是這樣的。我的意思是，一旦你克服了該業務（即高銷量業務）的固定成本，並且你意識到你的勞動力有產能，你就可以讓他們付出更多。由此帶來的任何額外吞吐量實際上都是利潤。很大程度上，它直接被排除在最終結果之外。

So a decline in that part of the stack will sort of have a direct impact to your EBIT. So it's a very certain part of it's a very high contribution margin business. Once you've overcome your cost, then you're really into the land of super high margin work.

因此，堆疊中該部分的下降將對您的息稅前利潤產生直接影響。所以，這部分業務的貢獻毛利率非常高。一旦你克服了成本，你就真正進入了高利潤工作的領域。

Yeah, and Matt, just another couple points on that. If you look at our Q3 of 2024 compared to our Q2 of 2024, so sequential, not year over year, you can see that impact. The price increase, I believe, hit July 17, maybe, in 2024. So almost all Q3 of 2024 had this higher price. And you can look at it, our revenue was up $19.2 million -- I'm sorry, it was up $19.5 million, and EBIT was up $19.2 million. It's essentially, I guess that was coming through as price.

是的，馬特，還有幾點要補充。如果您將我們 2024 年第三季與 2024 年第二季進行比較（即環比比較，而非同比比較），您就可以看到這種影響。我認為，價格上漲可能在 2024 年 7 月 17 日生效。因此，2024 年第三季幾乎所有產品的價格都高於這個水準。您可以看看，我們的收入成長了 1,920 萬美元——抱歉，是 1,950 萬美元，息稅前利潤增加了 1,920 萬美元。我猜這本質上就是價格體現。

But bottom line, I guess we've seen it on the opposite side with volumes where, again, as these volumes come through, here's an example, Debbie's system is optimized, for a certain level. So the rent we pay, the equipment we buy, all those things are pretty much fixed. As we optimize our system, if we're running 100% volume versus 90%, you still have the same labor force on the work -- on the floor. So maybe there's a small incremental increase in electrical costs or whatnot. Or maybe the equipment's going to break down a little faster if you're running it more.

但歸根結底，我想我們已經從相反的角度看到了這一點，例如，隨著這些流量的增加，舉個例子，黛比的系統針對某個特定水平進行了優化。所以，我們支付的租金、我們購買的設備，所有這些東西基本上都是固定的。隨著我們系統不斷優化，無論產能是 100% 還是 90%，現場的勞動力仍然保持不變。所以，或許電力成本或其他方面會有小幅上漲。或者說，如果使用頻率較高，設備的故障率可能會稍微高一些。

But in the end of the day, that loft volume, our contribution margin is incredibly high on volumes. Obviously, as you get to certain volumes you have to add fixed cost. But at this point, given that we're not fully utilizing our system, it heavily drops to the bottom line.

但歸根究底，閣樓租賃業務的銷售，以及銷售帶來的利潤率，都非常高。顯然，當銷售量達到一定規模時，就必須加上固定成本。但就目前而言，鑑於我們還沒有充分利用我們的系統，這將嚴重影響最終結果。

So that comment on price from last July, Kurt, makes a lot of sense. It feels like this was as much volume driven as price though. Could you talk -- maybe if I ask a question in a different way. If the 11% revenue decline, are you able to just roughly break that into price and volume?

所以，庫爾特，你去年七月對價格的評論很有道理。感覺這次的成交量和價格一樣重要。你能跟我聊聊嗎？或許我換個方式問你問題比較好。如果收入下降 11%，您能否大致將其分解為價格和銷售兩部分？

Yeah, we certainly know what it is. Yeah. I mean, look, we had a big loss in volume relative to our budget. And so that for me explains most of the story, what's going on. And obviously, we'll see some reversion of that volume in our next-year numbers. But it's really more about the volume and how that incremental volume, what that meant to the bottom line.

是的，我們當然知道那是什麼。是的。我的意思是，你看，相對於我們的預算，銷售損失很大。所以對我來說，這就解釋了大部分事情的來龍去脈。顯然，我們將在明年的數據中看到這種銷量有所回落。但實際上更重要的是銷量，以及銷量的增量對最終利潤的影響。

Okay, that's helpful.

好的，這很有幫助。

What were -- our mind is on this is we looked is how did our competitors use that rate case, the new funds associated that rate case. They used it to go out and bid share, and we didn't use it to bid share. And so because of that, we lost volume. We are the low-cost provider, so now what we're doing is, okay, fine, we'll use our position as the low cost provider to go back and win back that last volume.

我們當時關注的是競爭對手如何利用該利率方案以及與該利率方案相關的新資金。他們用它來競標市場份額，而我們沒有用它來競標市場份額。因此，我們的銷量下降了。我們是低成本供應商，所以現在我們要做的就是，好吧，我們將利用我們低成本供應商的地位，重新贏回最後那部分訂單。

So when you talk about the key drivers, obviously, you guys have talked extensively about the prior rigid pricing strategy. What about the comment about broader market decline? What is that piece of the key driver?

所以，當談到關鍵驅動因素時，顯然，你們已經廣泛討論過先前僵化的定價策略。關於市場整體下跌的評論，您怎麼看？關鍵驅動因素是什麼？

I mean, there is a decline in the space, but you know from decline you can grow to decline. You do it two ways. You can bid share and you can buy share. But through that you need to make sure that you're the low cost provider, which we believe we are.

我的意思是，這個領域確實在衰退，但你知道，衰退之後也可能再次衰退。有兩種方法。你可以競購股票，也可以買股票。但在這個過程中，你需要確保自己是低成本的供應商，而我們相信我們做到了。

I see. So the market decline is just sort of the standard secular pressure that you face in that business.

我懂了。所以，市場下跌只是你在這個產業中面臨的一種標準的長期壓力。

Yes, that is. But you know, how can we believe we can grow through that decline.

是的，就是這樣。但是，我們怎麼能相信自己能夠從這種衰退中實現成長呢？

Right. And you guys clearly have done so for many years.

正確的。你們顯然多年來一直這樣做。

Yeah, we've done that for many years. We've done it through a lot of acquisitions. And as Kurt mentioned, well, our competitors are smaller competitors who are enjoying the benefits of the rate case. And so they weren't reaching out to us.

是的，我們多年來一直這樣做。我們透過多次收購實現了這一目標。正如庫爾特所提到的那樣，我們的競爭對手都是規模較小的競爭對手，他們正在享受費率調整的好處。所以他們沒有主動聯絡我們。

Now that's sort of worked itself through the system. And now they're sort of calling back again. So one of the reasons why we've upsized our revolver, so as those opportunities present themselves, we can move quickly.

現在這件事已經透過系統自行解決了。現在他們又開始打電話過來了。因此，我們加大左輪手槍的容量，是為了把握機會，迅速採取行動。

Great. Could I switch to the capital allocation part of Kurt's letter. One question, Paul, maybe for you. You guys are pretty quickly, after the Q2 earnings interaction, you guys did a convertible bond. Could you talk a little bit about the philosophy of doing that convert and sort of where that fits into your capital structure?

偉大的。我可以切換到庫爾特信中的資本配置部分嗎？保羅，我有個問題想問你。你們行動非常迅速，在第二季財報發布後，你們就發行了可轉換債券。您能否談談進行這種轉換的概念，以及它在貴公司資本結構中的位置？

Yeah. We wanted to -- it was another market that was open to us. Very attractive, effective yield on that that will sort of yield some additional benefits to us. It's known in the market that it will come along with coverage. So we will pick up coverage from a number of firms, but that's not the reason we did it.

是的。我們想去——那是另一個向我們敞開的市場。非常有吸引力，這種收益方式非常有效，並且會為我們帶來一些額外的好處。市場上已經明確表示，它將附帶保險。因此，我們將獲得多家公司的報道，但這並不是我們這樣做的原因。

I mean, it's the stated coupon, it's 1.5%. Think back to the time where we had a stated coupon of over 10% on some of our debts. So an attractive opportunity for us in a market that wasn't previously open to us.

我的意思是，優惠券上寫著折扣是1.5%。回想一下，我們曾經的一些債務的票面利率超過 10%。因此，這對我們來說是一個極具吸引力的機會，進入了一個我們以前從未涉足的市場。

Do you see yourself doing more in the convert area?

你覺得自己會在轉換領域投入更多心力嗎？

Not sure yet. I mean, obviously, after this week I'll be with Alex in New York and we'll go and meet with all our lenders and so we'll see. What we're blessed with is lots of options today. And so we'll see, we'll evaluate it, but we don't know for sure.

還沒確定。我的意思是，很顯然，這週之後我會和亞歷克斯一起去紐約，我們會去見所有的貸款方，到時候就知道了。我們今天擁有很多選擇，這真是太幸運了。所以我們會拭目以待，我們會進行評估，但我們不能確定。

And then also in the depth front, you bought back another $12 million of your 2027s. I know, and had an interesting comment about just being in a position to retire that 2027 issue info, and at par in March of next year when they become -- when they call price drops.

此外，在深度方面，你們也回購了價值 1,200 萬美元的 2027 年到期債券。我知道，並且有一個有趣的評論，那就是正好可以放棄 2027 年的問題信息，並在明年 3 月達到平衡，屆時他們將——當他們稱之為價格下跌時。

Is that the plan that you would just use, effectively cash on hand, to deal with the 2027 maturity?

你們的計畫是不是就是直接動用手邊的現金來應付 2027 年到期的債務？

That, that's one option to us. We might do it that way. We might do a smaller refinancing. We just, again, we'll lock down what's our plan in the coming month or so. But then we have the liquidity if we wanted to take it out we could take it out.

那，這是我們的一個選擇。我們或許會那樣做。我們可能會進行小規模的再融資。我們再次重申，我們將在接下來的一個月左右確定我們的計劃。但是，如果我們想取出這筆資金，我們有流動資金可以取出。

Right. And as you continue to sort of weigh debt versus the shareholder cash out, whether it be dividend or share buybacks, how are you -- now that you've been here for a few months or in the seat for a few months, how do you think about giving my shareholders versus reducing your overall debt?

正確的。當您繼續權衡債務與股東套現（無論是分紅還是股票回購）時，您——現在您已經在這裡工作幾個月了——您如何看待給予股東收益與減少公司整體債務之間的關係？

I look at it on an implied return on investment, given where our stock is trading. It's a very attractive investment to do that. I mean, that's in part why we continue to we increase the size of the facility from $400 million to $500 million that you know we still like that. Obviously, we're value buyers on our debt. And you know if it hits our bid, we'll buy. Obviously, we know it's going to go to par in a couple of months. So that will open up opportunities for us.

我根據股票目前的交易價格，從隱含投資報酬率的角度來看這個問題。這樣做是一項非常有吸引力的投資。我的意思是，部分原因在於，我們繼續將設施的規模從 4 億美元增加到 5 億美元，你知道，我們仍然喜歡它。顯然，我們對我們的債券是價值買家。你知道，如果價格達到我們的出價，我們就買。顯然，我們知道幾個月後它就會恢復正常水平。這將為我們帶來機會。

So look, I'm looking at that. I'm looking at that. I'm also looking at what is our maintenance CapEx, which is very manageable for us. If there was an actual acquisition in front of us, we would evaluate that relative to share buybacks or debt buybacks, but that's not there right now. So with that, our best cost course of action is to continue to buy back our shares. And also where it's economic, we'll buy back our debt

你看，我正在看那個。我正在查看。我還在研究我們的維護資本支出，這對我們來說是完全可以負擔的。如果真的有收購機會擺在我們面前，我們會根據股票回購或債務回購來評估收購，但目前還沒有這樣的機會。因此，我們最經濟的做法是繼續回購我們的股票。而且在經濟條件允許的情況下，我們還會回購債務。

And Matt, just to be clear, we with respect to capital allocation, we're always going to be incredibly opportunistic. One of the things we're pushing as an organization is being nimble and everything that we do. So we'll evaluate whether the debt markets available. What sort of pricing we'll look at. Where our stock price is.

還有，馬特，我要明確一點，在資本配置方面，我們總是會採取非常積極的機會主義策略。作為一家企業，我們一直努力追求的一點就是靈活應變，這體現在我們所做的每一件事中。所以我們會評估債務市場是否可用。我們將考慮什麼樣的定價策略。我們的股價在哪裡？

Paul mentioned acquisitions, they're -- any acquisition we do is almost certain going to be pretty small in size, so that's not a major use of capital. But we still want to consider that as part of capital allocation. So I would just keep that in mind as we move forward that we're always going to look at how best to maximize that. And currently, one thing that I will say is we believe we can carry a lot more debt based on our outlook for the business than the market does, but we are very cognizant that the market sets -- the market drives everything.

保羅提到了收購，我們進行的任何收購幾乎肯定規模都很小，所以這並不是資金的主要用途。但我們仍然希望將此納入資本配置的考量。所以，我建議大家牢記這一點，在接下來的工作中，我們要始終考慮如何才能最大限度地發揮它的作用。目前，我想說的一點是，根據我們對業務的展望，我們相信我們可以承擔比市場預期更多的債務，但我們也非常清楚，市場決定一切——市場驅動一切。

So the mark -- yeah, I think the market's comfortable with about a 3.0 leverage ratio that's written into our current covenants. And if that's where the market -- the debt market is for us, then you know we want to make sure that we're getting below that 3. 0 from time to time to reset our covenant, but also just to keep the debt markets comfortable with our level of leverage. But again, we have very strong conviction longer-term. We can carry heavier debt. But until the market agrees with us, we're going to that we meet the market's expectations with respect to our debt.

所以市場預期——是的，我認為市場可以接受我們目前契約中規定的 3.0 倍槓桿率。如果這就是市場——債務市場對我們來說意味著什麼，那麼我們就知道，我們希望確保我們的槓桿率時不時低於 3.0，以重置我們的契約，同時也為了讓債務市場對我們的槓桿水平感到滿意。但我們對長遠發展前景依然充滿信心。我們可以承擔更重的債務。但是，在市場認同我們的做法之前，我們將繼續努力，以滿足市場對我們債務的預期。

Justin Dopierala, Domo Capital Management.

賈斯汀‧多皮拉拉 (Justin Dopierala)，多莫資本管理公司。

Most of my questions have been answered. I just have a couple. I haven't had a chance to work through all those huge share repurchase numbers, you guys. I'm just wondering, do you have an idea or can you give an approximation of where we stand today as of shares outstanding?

我的大部分問題都已得到解答。我只有幾個。各位，我還來不及仔細研究那些巨額股票回購數據。我只是想問一下，您能否大致估算一下我們目前的流通股數？

About approximately $160 million.

大約1.6億美元。

Perfect. And then, I mean, lastly, to me, this is the cash flow story. The cost of seem to be an impression in the market that this year's cash flow is sort of a one-time event fueled by the over $100 million you freed up with the Pitney Bowes bank receivable purchase program, even though that really shouldn't have any impact on pre-cash flow.

完美的。最後，對我來說，這就是現金流的故事。市場似乎認為今年的現金流是一次性事件，這得益於您透過 Pitney Bowes 銀行應收帳款購買計劃釋放的 1 億美元多資金，儘管這實際上不應該對現金流產生任何影響。

Can you confirm this? And also confirm they haven't been any material one-time impacts of free cash flow in 2025 that wouldn't be unrepeatable for 2026?

能確認一下嗎？另外，請確認2025年自由現金流沒有受到任何重大的一次性影響，且這種影響在2026年無法重現？

Yeah. Now, Justin, so to tick those off, with respect to the receivable purchase program, that does not impact cash flow. It just frees up what used to be restricted cash, makes it unrestricted. So no, our free cash flow forecast is not impacted by that.

是的。現在，賈斯汀，為了逐一核對，關於應收帳款購買計劃，這不會影響現金流。這只是將原本受限的資金釋放出來，使其不再受限。所以，不，我們的自由現金流預測不受此影響。

With respect to any sort of one-time items, tax assets has come up as something we've talked about. As we look at it, the degree to which we've been able to take advantage of our deferred tax assets, we expect to be able to do for another couple of years. So I don't think that's in the -- at some point we won't have the same benefit. But for years to come, perhaps two, three years, we expect to be able to recognize the same cash benefit from our tax asset.

對於任何類型的一次性項目，稅務資產都是我們討論過的主題。從我們的角度來看，我們能夠利用遞延所得稅資產的程度，我們預計在未來幾年內也能繼續維持下去。所以我認為，在某個時候，我們將無法再享受到同樣的益處。但在未來幾年，或許兩三年內，我們預期能夠從我們的稅務資產中獲得相同的現金收益。

And then with respect to other one-time items, I don't know if Paul has this number handy. I'm trying to look for it. Working capital is a significant use of cash this year based on our business that's, I think it's going to be a much larger use of cash this year than it normally would be. So if you were to normalize our working capital in the current year, our free cash flow would actually be a fair bit higher. And just looking at it, $205 million? Working capital. Okay.

至於其他一次性項目，我不知道保羅是否手上有相關號碼。我正在找它。根據我們公司的業務狀況來看，今年營運資金將是一項重要的現金支出，我認為今年的現金支出將比往年大得多。因此，如果將我們今年的營運資本正常化，我們的自由現金流實際上會高得多。光看數字，就2.05億美元？營運資金。好的。

So I'm being told that year to date, working capital has been a use of $205 million that will somewhat reverse in Q4. I believe Q4 of last year, we had free cash flow of about $145 million. I'm not saying we'll be exactly there. I guess based on our guidance, I think it may actually be -- I think we're expecting a higher level of free cash flow in this Q4, but that will be some reversal of that use of cash. So bottom line, if anything, one-time items are actually restraining our free cash flow this year due to working capital, as opposed to the opposite.

據我了解，今年迄今為止，營運資金已使用 2.05 億美元，第四季將有所逆轉。我相信去年第四季度，我們的自由現金流約為 1.45 億美元。我不是說我們一定會到達那裡。根據我們的指導，我認為實際情況可能是——我們預計第四季度的自由現金流水平會更高，但這將扭轉現金的使用情況。所以總而言之，如果有什麼影響的話，那就是一次性專案實際上會因為營運資金而限制我們今年的自由現金流，而不是相反。

Got it. So then I mean based on that and the other things you've announced is, the cost savings, et cetera, I mean, it sounds like free cash flow for 2026 should really be greater than 2025 then.

知道了。所以，基於這一點以及您宣布的其他事項，例如成本節約等等，我的意思是，聽起來 2026 年的自由現金流應該會比 2025 年更大。

Yeah. We're not giving guidance for 2026. I would just say, everybody on this call is pretty proficient with Excel. If you look at where we are, you have some sense of where revenue should be, some sense of how that flows through the income statement. Look at the $50 million to $60 million of cost out. And Paul can correct me on this. It's all -- it should all be done by the end of 2026. The vast majority is being implemented currently and should be done by the end of 2025.

是的。我們不提供2026年的指導。我想說的是，參加這次電話會議的每個人都非常精通 Excel。如果你看看我們目前的狀況，你就能大致了解收入應該達到什麼水平，以及收入是如何反映在損益表中的。看看那5000萬到6000萬美元的成本吧。保羅可以糾正我這一點。所有這些——所有這些工作都應該在2026年底前完成。絕大多數措施目前正在實施中，應該在 2025 年底前完成。

So I think the run rate in 2025 is going to be awfully high. So there'll be a significant improvement. I will say just, full transparency, there's obviously offsets to that. So I think when you look at merit increases, you look at benefits, some other factors, there's, maybe $15 million to $20 million that we're anticipating an additional costs, just cost of living adjustments, et cetera. But still, that's a significant cost reduction.

所以我認為2025年的跑動率將會非常高。所以情況會有顯著改善。我只想坦誠地說，這其中顯然存在一些不利因素。所以我覺得，在考慮績效成長、福利和其他一些因素時，我們預計會有 1500 萬到 2000 萬美元的額外成本，只是生活成本調整等等。但即便如此，這仍然是一筆可觀的成本降低。

And as you say, we haven't modeled it out yet, but this is an unusually high use of working capital this year. So I'm not -- I'll let you draw your own conclusion. But based on all that, I would say that where you're coming out makes a lot of sense to me.

正如你所說，我們還沒有進行建模，但今年營運資金的使用量確實異常高。所以我不是——你自己得出結論吧。但綜合以上所有因素，我認為你的觀點很有道理。

I'll now hand the call back over to Chief Executive Officer, Kurt Wolf, for any closing remarks.

現在我將把電話交還給執行長庫爾特·沃爾夫，請他作總結發言。

Yeah. Thank you, everybody, for being on this call. And I just want to make one last comment for -- I know I say it a lot, and I can't -- but I can't say it enough. As an investor in this company, I hope everybody appreciates the employee base that we have at this company. As I said already, we've gone through a lot of changes at this company. This last round of taking out another $50 million to $60 million costs, it impacts a lot of people and a lot of lives.

是的。謝謝各位參加這次電話會議。最後，我只想再補充一點——我知道我常常這麼說，而且我怎麼強調都不為過。身為這家公司的投資者，我希望大家都能珍惜我們公司擁有的優秀員工。正如我之前所說，我們公司經歷了許多變化。最後這一輪提取5000萬至6000萬美元的資金，將影響許多人和很多人的生活。

And the employee base, like I said, it's impressive. People show up every day ready to work, asking how they can be of help and just, as an investor, hopefully you have some confidence in the leadership team. But as investors, I hope you appreciate just how special a workforce we have here at Pitney Bowes. It's -- the position we have in our markets, the products we have, the services we have is something special. But the employees we have at this company is as well. So I hope everybody appreciates that, and just a special thank you to our employee base for everything they do for us. So thank you, all.

正如我所說，員工隊伍規模令人印象深刻。員工們每天都精神飽滿地來上班，主動詢問如何才能提供協助。身為投資者，希望您能對領導團隊抱持一定的信心。但身為投資者，我希望你們能夠體會到 Pitney Bowes 的員工隊伍是多麼優秀。我們在市場上的地位、我們擁有的產品和服務都是非常特別的。但我們公司的員工也是如此。所以，我希望大家都能理解，也要特別感謝我們的全體員工為我們所做的一切。所以，謝謝大家。

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for participating. This does conclude today's program, and you may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，感謝各位的參與。今天的節目到此結束，您可以斷開連線了。