必能寶 (PBI) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon and welcome to the Pitney Bowes's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings release call. (Operator Instructions) Today's call is also being recorded. If you have any objections, please disconnect your lines at this time.

下午好，歡迎參加 Pitney Bowes 2024 年第四季和全年財報發布電話會議。（操作員指示）今天的通話也正在被錄音。如果您有任何異議，請立即斷開您的線路。

I would now like to introduce the participants on today's conference call, Mr. Lance Rosenzweig, Chief Executive Officer and Board Member; Mr. John Witek, Interim Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Alex Brown, Director of Investor Relations.

現在，我想介紹今天電話會議的參與者，執行長兼董事會成員 Lance Rosenzweig 先生；臨時財務長 John Witek 先生；以及投資者關係總監 Alex Brown 先生。

Mr. Brown will now begin the call with a Safe Harbor overview.

布朗先生現在將以安全港概述開始通話。

Good afternoon and thank you for joining us. Included in today's presentation are forward-looking statements about our future business and financial performance. Forward-looking statements involve risks along with uncertainties that can cause actual results to be materially different from our projections. More information about these items can be found in our earnings press release.

下午好，感謝您加入我們。今天的演示中包含了有關我們未來業務和財務表現的前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與我們的預測有重大差異。有關這些項目的更多資訊請參閱我們的收益新聞稿。

Our 2023 Form 10-K annual report and other reports filed with the SEC that are located on our website at www.pb.com and by clicking on investor relations. Please keep in mind we do not undertake any obligation to update forward-looking statements as a result of new information or developments.

我們的 2023 年 10-K 表格年度報告和向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他報告可在我們的網站 www.pb.com 上找到，點擊「投資者關係」即可查看。請記住，我們不承擔因新資訊或發展而更新前瞻性聲明的任何義務。

Also included in today's presentation are non-GAAP measures. You can find reconciliations for these non-GAAP measures to the appropriate GAAP measure in the tables attached to our press release. We have also provided a slide presentation and a spreadsheet with historical segment information on our website.

今天的演示中還包括非公認會計準則衡量指標。您可以在新聞稿所附的表格中找到這些非 GAAP 指標與對應的 GAAP 指標的對帳表。我們還在我們的網站上提供了包含歷史片段資訊的幻燈片簡報和電子表格。

Finally, in our prepared remarks, revenue comparisons will be on a constant currency basis with other items such as EBIT, EBITDA, EPS, and free cash flow on an adjusted basis.

最後，在我們準備好的評論中，收入比較將採用固定貨幣基礎，其他項目如 EBIT、EBITDA、EPS 和自由現金流則採用調整後的基礎。

At this time I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Lance.

現在我想將電話轉給我們的執行長蘭斯。

Thank you, Alex, and good afternoon, everyone. 2024 was a transformative year for Pitney Bowes. We made swift and meaningful progress on all four of our strategic initiatives; exiting GEC, dramatically reducing costs and excess overhead, freeing up trapped cash, and deleveraging our balance sheet.

謝謝你，亞歷克斯，大家下午好。 2024 年對 Pitney Bowes 來說是轉型的一年。我們在所有四個策略措施上都取得了迅速而有意義的進展；退出 GEC，大幅降低成本和過剩管理費用，釋放被困現金，並降低資產負債表的槓桿率。

Pitney Bowes is now a more efficient and focused company on a path to sustained value creation. Our full year results bear this out. Revenue was $2.027 billion in line with our expectations for a softer point in SendTech's product cycle and down 3% year over year. Adjusted EPS was $0.82, up $0.21, or 34% over the prior year. Adjusted EBIT was $385 million, up $77 million, or 25% over the prior year. And free cash flow was $290 million which excludes $86 million of restructuring payments.

Pitney Bowes 現在是一家更有效率、更專注的公司，持續創造價值。我們的全年業績證實了這一點。營收為 20.27 億美元，符合我們對 SendTech 產品週期較弱點的預期，且較去年同期下降 3%。調整後每股收益為 0.82 美元，較上年增長 0.21 美元，增幅為 34%。調整後的息稅前利潤為 3.85 億美元，比上年增加 7,700 萬美元，增幅為 25%。自由現金流為 2.9 億美元，其中不包括 8,600 萬美元的重組付款。

Before I dive in further, I want to say how excited I am to have Bob Gold joining us next month as our new CFO. Bob's background and experience make him an excellent fit for Pitney Bowes. In his prior roles, he has helped successfully transform companies into more efficient, cash generating, and profitable organizations. And has significant capital allocation, cost containment, debt management, and transaction experience. He's an excellent addition to our management team as we work to enhance value for our shareholders, and I look forward to introducing many of you to Bob in the coming weeks.

在深入探討之前，我想說，我很高興 Bob Gold 下個月加入我們，擔任我們的新財務長。鮑伯的背景和經驗使他非常適合 Pitney Bowes。在他之前的職位上，他成功地幫助公司轉變為更有效率、更能產生現金並獲利的組織。並具備豐富的資本配置、成本控制、債務管理及交易經驗。在我們致力於提升股東價值的過程中，他是我們管理團隊的優秀補充，我期待在未來幾週內向你們中的許多人介紹鮑伯。

I also want to extend my sincere appreciation to John for his exceptional service to Pitney Bowes over the past six years, most recently as interim CFO. John has been a wonderful partner since I joined the company, and he and his team have been instrumental in achieving each of our strategic objectives. John is retiring at the end of the quarter, and we wish him continued success going forward.

我還要向約翰表達最誠摯的感謝，感謝他過去六年來為 Pitney Bowes 做出的傑出貢獻，最近他擔任臨時財務長。自從我加入公司以來，約翰一直是一位出色的合作夥伴，他和他的團隊在實現我們每個策略目標方面都發揮了重要作用。約翰將於本季末退休，我們祝福他在未來繼續取得成功。

With that, let's shift to an update on our strategic initiatives and then discuss why we are so excited about the opportunities for Pitney Bowes in 2025 and beyond.

接下來，讓我們來更新一下我們的策略舉措，然後討論為什麼我們對 Pitney Bowes 在 2025 年及以後的機會如此興奮。

Exiting the global e-commerce segment was a critical step in simplifying our business structure. As we near the completion of the wind down, we have been able to firm up details around one-time costs, which are now expected to be approximately $165 million. $120 million of these costs were paid out by year end, with the remainder expected to be paid out in the first half of 2025. The $165 million in exit costs are offset by a tax asset of approximately $164 million recorded in 2024 GAAP earnings. We expect to realize this asset predominantly over the next three years by reducing cash taxes.

退出全球電子商務領域是我們簡化業務結構的關鍵一步。隨著我們接近完成逐步關閉，我們已經能夠確定一次性成本的細節，目前預計約為 1.65 億美元。其中 1.2 億美元已於年底支付，剩餘部分預計將於 2025 年上半年支付。1.65 億美元的退出成本被 2024 年 GAAP 收益中記錄的約 1.64 億美元的稅收資產所抵銷。我們預計在未來三年內主要透過減少現金稅來實現這項資產。

Moving on to cost takeout, we removed approximately $30 million in annualized costs during the fourth quarter, which brings our run rate exiting 2024 to approximately $120 million in annualized savings. We now expect to achieve a total of $170 million to $190 million in net annualized savings, up from the previously announced target of $150 million to $170 million.

在成本削減方面，我們在第四季度削減了約 3000 萬美元的年化成本，這使我們在 2024 年結束時的運行率達到約 1.2 億美元的年化節省。我們現在預計實現年度淨節省總額 1.7 億至 1.9 億美元，高於先前宣布的 1.5 億至 1.7 億美元的目標。

The remaining savings will be realized over the course of 2025 and into 2026. These cost reductions will be primarily driven by further overhead reductions, IT system simplification, reduced vendor spend, and facility consolidation. Going forward, Pitney Bowes will operate with a mindset of continual improvement and cost savings.

剩餘的節省將在 2025 年至 2026 年期間實現。成本降低主要得益於進一步降低管理費用、簡化 IT 系統、減少供應商支出以及設施整合。展望未來，Pitney Bowes 將以持續改善和節省成本的概念進行營運。

Lastly, we have focused on simplifying and strengthening our balance sheet through cash optimization and deleveraging. On cash optimization, with the GEC wind down largely complete, we now anticipate needing to hold approximately $100 million less in cash on our balance sheet.

最後，我們致力於透過現金優化和去槓桿來簡化和加強我們的資產負債表。在現金優化方面，隨著 GEC 的逐步關閉基本上完成，我們現在預計需要在資產負債表上減少約 1 億美元的現金。

We have also reduced the amount of cash we hold offshore by approximately $90 million and now plan to hold around $50 million overseas. Further, the Pitney Bowes Bank Receivables Purchase Program has accelerated the net realization of $41 million of cash from leases in 2024, freeing up approximately that amount of cash flow to the parent company level.

我們還將海外持有的現金減少了約 9,000 萬美元，目前計劃在海外持有約 5,000 萬美元。此外，Pitney Bowes 銀行應收帳款購買計畫加速了 2024 年 4,100 萬美元租賃淨現金的實現，從而向母公司層面釋放了大約相同數額的現金流。

Overall, these initiatives have unlocked more than $200 million that we can deploy more efficiently. On the deleveraging front, our goal was to prioritize our high-cost debt and our near-term maturities. We have made excellent progress in both areas. Over the past three months, we paid off our most expensive debt in its entirety, the $275 million in Oaktree notes, and we paid it off with internally generated cash.

總體而言，這些措施已釋放出超過 2 億美元的資金，我們可以更有效地部署這些資金。在去槓桿方面，我們的目標是優先考慮高成本債務和近期到期債務。我們在這兩個領域都取得了顯著進展。在過去三個月裡，我們全部償還了最昂貴的債務，即 2.75 億美元的橡樹資本債券，而且是用內部產生的現金償還的。

In addition, this month we successfully refinanced our near-term maturities through the issuance of a new revolving credit facility, a $160 million term loan A, and a $615 million term loan B. Our nearest maturity is now our notes due in March 2027. I'd like to thank our internal teams and our outside advisers for working so effectively together to deliver these successes in each of our four key initiatives.

此外，本月我們透過發行新的循環信貸額度、1.6 億美元的定期貸款 A 和 6.15 億美元的定期貸款 B 成功地為我們的近期到期債務進行了再融資。我們現在最接近的到期日是 2027 年 3 月到期的票據。我要感謝我們的內部團隊和外部顧問，他們如此有效地合作，使我們的四個關鍵舉措都取得了成功。

Let's now talk about why we are so excited about the future of Pitney Bowes. We started 2025 with strong momentum in a solid foundation from which to grow cash flow and earnings. The core tenets that will guide us this year are what I call the 3S's: simplicity, speed, and sales. Leadership will be measuring the organization's rate of continued evolution and improvement based on these priorities, and you'll hear me refer back to them periodically.

現在讓我們來談談為什麼我們對 Pitney Bowes 的未來如此興奮。我們以強勁的發展勢頭和堅實的基礎迎接 2025 年，從而實現現金流和收益的成長。今年指導我們的核心原則就是我所說的 3S：簡單、速度和銷售。領導階層將根據這些優先事項來衡量組織持續發展和改進的速度，你會聽到我定期回顧這些優先事項。

Pitney Bowes has historically been a complicated business, so we will continue to drive simplification by breaking down silos and focusing on a narrower set of high margin opportunities. Our exit from GEC was an important step in simplifying our company. In 2025, we are taking additional steps to simplify our operations, systems and processes throughout the company.

從歷史上看，Pitney Bowes 一直是一家複雜的企業，因此我們將繼續透過打破障礙、專注於更狹窄的高利潤機會來推動簡化。我們退出 GEC 是我們簡化公司的重要一步。2025 年，我們將採取額外措施簡化整個公司的營運、系統和流程。

Speed goes hand in hand with simplifying the company, and I believe we have demonstrated our ability to operate with urgency. Prioritizing both of these tenants has already enabled us to have greater flexibility with capital allocation.

速度與簡化公司相輔相成，我相信我們已經證明了我們緊急行動的能力。優先考慮這兩個租戶已經使我們在資本配置方面擁有更大的靈活性。

In terms of sales, we are evolving Pitney Bowes from a business in slowly declining markets to a growing company with exciting long-term prospects, and we intend to do this without the need for transformative M&A or excessive growth related spend.

在銷售方面，我們正在將 Pitney Bowes 從一家處於緩慢衰退市場的企業轉變為擁有令人興奮的長期前景的成長型公司，而且我們打算在不需要轉型性併購或過度增長相關支出的情況下實現這一目標。

In particular, we see meaningful opportunities to grow our cash generating and profitable business segments, SendTech and Presort, as well as global financial services and have already been doing so in earnest.

特別是，我們看到了發展我們的現金產生和盈利業務部門 SendTech 和 Presort 以及全球金融服務的重要機會，並且我們已經在認真地這樣做了。

In SendTech, our growth engine is our shipping technology business, which includes product offerings in office shipping, enterprise fulfillment software, and e-commerce. Each of these offerings include SaaS subscriptions with additional revenue streams including hardware, professional services, and carrier rebates. Our Shipping 360 platform integrates our offerings, this carrier agnostic, and brings our clients significant cost savings and advanced analytics.

在 SendTech，我們的成長引擎是我們的航運技術業務，其中包括辦公室航運、企業履行軟體和電子商務方面的產品。這些產品均包括 SaaS 訂閱以及硬體、專業服務和營運商回扣等額外收入來源。我們的 Shipping 360 平台整合了我們的產品，與承運商無關，並為我們的客戶帶來顯著的成本節約和先進的分析。

In the fourth quarter, shipping technology related revenue grew 18%. To accelerate our growth in SendTech, we have reorganized much of our sales force from a geographically based organization to a vertical market organization, to benefit from our differentiated product offerings in mailing and shipping technology. Our key vertical markets include healthcare, banking and financial services, and government.

第四季度，航運技術相關收入成長18%。為了加速 SendTech 的發展，我們將大部分銷售團隊從基於地理位置的組織重組為垂直市場組織，以從我們在郵寄和運輸技術方面的差異化產品中受益。我們的主要垂直市場包括醫療保健、銀行和金融服務以及政府。

The Pitney Bowes Presort business has grown in 11 of the last 12 years, declining only during COVID. Presort's adjusted EBIT grew nearly 50% in 2024, driven largely by a combination of higher revenue per piece and cost reductions. In 2025, we will look to continue to profitably grow Presort, both organically and through tuck-in acquisitions that provide the opportunity to gain greater economies of scale.

Pitney Bowes 預分類業務在過去 12 年中有 11 年都實現了成長，僅在新冠疫情期間出現下滑。Presort 的調整後息稅前利潤在 2024 年成長了近 50%，這主要得益於每件收入的增加和成本的降低。2025 年，我們將繼續透過有機成長和補充收購的方式實現 Presort 的獲利性成長，從而獲得更大的規模經濟效益。

We recently closed the acquisition of Royal Alliances' Presort Business, which has added 100 million pieces of first-class mail to our Presort business annually. We are continually looking at similar tuck in acquisitions that would be rapidly accretive and expand our capabilities and markets.

我們最近完成了對 Royal Alliances 預分揀業務的收購，這為我們的預分揀業務每年增加了 1 億件一流郵件。我們一直在尋找類似的內部收購，以快速增加我們的收入並擴大我們的能力和市場。

At Global Financial Services, we are looking to expand the depth and breadth of our offerings to our base of over half a million customers while continuing to generate significant cash for Pitney Bowes. Due to our growth initiatives and based on our current forecasts, we believe that we are on track to reach an inflection point where Pitney Bowes will become a growing company, and we will provide more context around that in future quarterly updates.

在全球金融服務領域，我們希望擴大我們向超過 50 萬客戶群提供的服務的深度和廣度，同時繼續為 Pitney Bowes 創造大量現金。由於我們的成長計劃並根據我們目前的預測，我們相信我們正朝著一個轉折點邁進，Pitney Bowes 將成為一家成長型公司，我們將在未來的季度更新中提供更多相關背景資訊。

In light of our improved financial position, our leadership team and Board have given a great deal of thought to capital allocation. There are four elements that comprise our go forward capital allocation framework.

鑑於我們財務狀況的改善，我們的領導團隊和董事會對資本配置進行了深思熟慮。我們的未來資本配置架構由四個要素組成。

First, we will continue to invest in organic growth initiatives that generate a risk adjusted return that is well above our cost of capital.

首先，我們將繼續投資於有機成長計劃，以產生遠高於資本成本的風險調整回報。

Second, we will target opportunistic tuck in acquisitions that are quickly accretive and can generate a very attractive risk adjusted ROI. We do not currently anticipate any large transformative acquisitions.

其次，我們將瞄準那些能夠快速增值並能產生非常有吸引力的風險調整後投資回報率的機會性收購。我們目前預計不會有任何大型變革性收購。

Third, we will continue to retire debt on a reasonable time frame as we seek to maintain an optimal leverage profile which we believe is 3.0 over the next two years.

第三，我們將繼續在合理的時間範圍內償還債務，因為我們尋求維持最佳槓桿率，我們認為未來兩年​​的槓桿率將達到 3.0。

And fourth, we will return capital to shareholders through our dividend and through share buybacks, utilizing our newly authorized share repurchase facility of $150 million.

第四，我們將利用新授權的 1.5 億美元股票回購額度，透過股利和股票回購向股東返還資本。

I want to emphasize that we are fully committed to prudently increasing the amount of capital that we return to shareholders, and we intend to do this on a consistent basis, beginning with today's [$0.01] per share increase in dividends and moving forward by utilizing our new share repurchase facility. In future quarterly calls, we intend to provide relevant updates on each of these buckets in a clear and coherent fashion.

我想強調的是，我們完全致力於審慎增加返還給股東的資本數額，並且我們打算持續這樣做，從今天每股增加 [0.01 美元] 的股息開始，並利用我們的新股票回購工具向前邁進。在未來的季度電話會議中，我們打算以清晰連貫的方式提供有關每個方面的相關更新。

In closing, I want to emphasize that we are committed to continuing our strong execution and identifying additional ways to maximizing value for shareholders.

最後，我想強調的是，我們致力於繼續強有力的執行，並尋找其他方法來最大化股東價值。

Now I'll turn the call over to John to discuss our fourth quarter and full year results in greater detail.

現在我將把電話轉給約翰，更詳細地討論我們的第四季和全年業績。

Thanks, Lance. As Lance alluded to, this has truly been a great year for Pitney Bowes, and we are now on a much improved trajectory. Let me start by providing an overview of our full year results followed by the fourth quarter. For the full year, revenue was $2 billion down 3% year over year. Adjusted EPS was $0.82, and improvement of $0.21 over the prior year.

謝謝，蘭斯。正如蘭斯所提到的，對於 Pitney Bowes 來說，這確實是偉大的一年，而且我們現在正處於一個更好的發展軌道上。首先，我先概述一下我們的全年業績，然後再介紹一下第四季的業績。全年營收為 20 億美元，年減 3%。調整後的每股收益為 0.82 美元，比上年提高 0.21 美元。

Adjusted EBIT was $385 million, up $77 million over the prior year. Free cash flow was $290 million and excludes $86 million of restructuring payments.

調整後的息稅前利潤為 3.85 億美元，比上年增加 7,700 萬美元。自由現金流為 2.9 億美元，不包括 8,600 萬美元的重組付款。

Now turning to the quarter. Q4 revenue was $516 million down 2% versus the prior year. Adjusted EBIT was $114 million a 33% increase versus the prior year showcasing our strength and profitability as we continue to simplify our business. Fourth quarter, year over year comparison, benefited from higher Presort profit contribution and lower costs across the company from our cost reduction initiatives.

現在轉向本季。第四季營收為 5.16 億美元，較上年下降 2%。調整後的息稅前利潤為 1.14 億美元，較上年增長 33%，展現了我們在繼續簡化業務的同時所展現出的實力和盈利能力。與去年同期相比，第四季度受益於預分類利潤貢獻的提高以及我們採取的成本削減措施帶來的全公司成本的降低。

Fourth quarter, adjusted EPS was $0.32, up $0.12 year over year, driven by higher EBIT. Fourth quarter free cash flow was $145 million and excludes $32 million of restructuring payments. An important note, the variable compensation we recorded across our reporting segments was a headwind to our 2024 segment results and a tailwind in 2023.

第四季度，調整後每股收益為 0.32 美元，年增 0.12 美元，這得益於息稅前利潤的提高。第四季自由現金流為 1.45 億美元，不包括 3,200 萬美元的重組付款。需要注意的是，我們在報告分部中記錄的浮動薪酬對我們 2024 年的分部業績來說是不利因素，但對 2023 年來說則是順風因素。

From a year over year perspective, variable compensation in the fourth quarter was a $2 million headwind to Presort, and $11 million headwind to SendTech, and a $5 million help to corporate expenses. For modeling purposes, assume that the year over year headwinds for the segments are roughly split 50, 50 between 2023 benefit and the 2024 headwind.

從年比角度來看，第四季浮動薪酬對 Presort 造成 200 萬美元的不利影響，對 SendTech 造成 1,100 萬美元的不利影響，對企業費用造成 500 萬美元的幫助。為了建模的目的，假設各部門的年比不利因素大致分為 50%，即 2023 年的收益和 2024 年的不利因素。

Now turning to business segments. Beginning with SendTech, We completed the IMI migration in the fourth quarter. As we previously guided, the last tranche of transactions produced higher cancellation rates than we typically see. Going forward, we expect our cancellation rates to revert to normalized levels, which are mid-single digits.

現在轉向業務部門。從 SendTech 開始，我們在第四季度完成了 IMI 遷移。正如我們之前所指導的，最後一批交易的取消率比我們通常看到的要高。展望未來，我們預期取消率將恢復到正常水平，即中等個位數。

Equipment revenue in the quarter declined 16% year over year in line with our expectations. Shipping-related revenues in the quarter grew 18% and comprised 17% of full year SendTech segment revenue. For the fourth quarter, we drove significant growth in our subscription base and ended the year with almost 200,000 paid subscribers. This resulted in a 33% year over year improvement in SaaS subscription revenue in the quarter.

本季設備營收年減 16%，符合我們的預期。本季航運相關營收成長 18%，佔 SendTech 部門全年營收的 17%。第四季度，我們的訂閱用戶群實現了顯著成長，年底付費訂閱用戶數量已接近 20 萬。這使得本季 SaaS 訂閱營收年增 33%。

SendTech gross profit declined $10 million in the quarter versus prior year primarily due to the decline in revenue. However, gross margin percentage increased to 67.1% from 66.4% compared to the prior year. Operating expenses for the quarter increased $11 million year over year, primarily as a result of non-recurring items. However, operating expenses for the full year declined by about $12 million.

本季度，SendTech 毛利較上年同期下降 1,000 萬美元，主要原因是營收下降。不過，毛利率由上年的66.4%上升至67.1%。本季營運費用年增 1,100 萬美元，主要由於非經常性項目的影響。不過，全年營運費用下降了約1200萬美元。

Moving to our global financial services within SendTech. In the quarter, we sold $19 million of securities at PB Bank. This resulted in a $3 million realized loss in our P&L. We are reinvesting the proceeds from the sale into higher yielding finance receivables in line with our growth strategy in financial services. Finance receivables were $1.15 billion at the end of the year, down 6% year over year.

轉向 SendTech 內的全球金融服務。本季度，我們在 PB Bank 出售了價值 1,900 萬美元的證券。這導致我們的損益表實際損失了 300 萬美元。我們將把銷售所得重新投資於收益更高的融資應收款，以符合我們金融服務的成長策略。年末應收融資款11.5億美元，年減6%。

Shifting to Presort, revenue for the full year was $663 million, up from $618 million the prior year. Revenue in the quarter was $180 million up 10% over the prior year from pricing, mix, and a higher five-digit qualification. Volumes were flat year over year. Adjusted EBIT for the full year was $166 million, up 49% versus the prior year. Adjusted EBIT for the quarter was $52 million an increase of 52% year over year.

轉向預分類後，全年營收為 6.63 億美元，高於前一年的 6.18 億美元。本季營收為 1.8 億美元，由於定價、產品組合和更高的五位數資格，比上年增長 10%。銷量與去年同期持平。全年調整後息稅前利潤為 1.66 億美元，較上年成長 49%。本季調整後的息稅前利潤為 5,200 萬美元，較去年同期成長 52%。

Outside of the business units, corporate expenses were $34 million in the quarter, $31 million lower than last year. Our cost reduction initiatives drove most of this improvement.

除業務部門外，本季企業支出為 3,400 萬美元，比去年同期減少 3,100 萬美元。我們的成本削減措施推動了這項改善的大部分進展。

Now let's turn to guidance. In 2025, we expect to generate between $1.95 billion and $2 billion in revenue, representing a modest decline year over year. This decline is mainly driven by revenue headwinds in SendTech as we turn the page on the product migration. Other operations include revenue from certain GEC operations we exited in 2023. We expect these to be partially offset by growth in Presort and shipping related revenues in SendTech.

現在讓我們轉向指導。到 2025 年，我們預計營收將在 19.5 億美元至 20 億美元之間，年比略有下降。這種下降主要是由於 SendTech 的收入逆風所致，因為我們已經開啟了產品遷移的新篇章。其他業務包括我們於 2023 年退出的某些 GEC 業務的收入。我們預計這些收入將被 SendTech 的預分類和運輸相關收入的成長部分抵銷。

Moving to profitability, we expect to generate between $450 million and $480 million in adjusted EBIT in 2025, mainly driven by additional savings from our cost reduction initiatives and growth in Presort and SendTech shipping. We also expect 2025 adjusted EPS to be between $1.10 to $1.30 per share. We expect our effective tax rate for adjusted earnings to be between 27% and 31%. The $164 million tax assets associated with the GEC wind down were already recorded in 2024 and will benefit cash taxes on the cash flow statement.

談到獲利能力，我們預計 2025 年調整後的息稅前利潤將在 4.5 億美元至 4.8 億美元之間，這主要得益於我們的成本削減舉措帶來的額外節省以及預分揀和 SendTech 運輸的增長。我們也預計 2025 年調整後每股盈餘將在 1.10 美元至 1.30 美元之間。我們預計調整後收益的有效稅率在 27% 至 31% 之間。與 GEC 清算相關的 1.64 億美元稅收資產已於 2024 年記錄，並將在現金流量表中產生現金稅收收益。

We expect interest expense to decline year over year as a result of our recent paydown of the OakTree notes and refinancing. From a cash flow perspective, we expect 2025 free cash flow to range between $330 million and $370 million. Free cash flow excludes restructuring payments and CapEx. We expect CapEx to be comparable to 2024. We've made great progress in starting our cost reduction initiatives in 2024. As of the end of 2024, we had removed approximately $120 million of annualized cost, contributing a $52 million dollar benefit to our full year bottom line.

由於我們最近償還了 OakTree 債券並進行了再融資，我們預計利息支出將逐年下降。從現金流角度來看，我們預計 2025 年自由現金流將在 3.3 億至 3.7 億美元之間。自由現金流不包括重組付款和資本支出。我們預計資本支出將與 2024 年相當。我們在 2024 年開始實施的成本削減計劃方面取得了巨大進展。截至 2024 年底，我們已消除了約 1.2 億美元的年度成本，為我們的全年利潤貢獻了 5,200 萬美元的收益。

As Lance mentioned, we are increasing our target to a total of $170 million to $190 million in net annualized savings.

正如 Lance 所提到的，我們將年度淨節省總額目標提高到 1.7 億至 1.9 億美元。

Now let me add more color on our 2025 guidance. First, SendTech. As previously guided, we expect 2025 to be a transition year due to the end of its migration cycle. Our upfront equipment revenue will decline from lower transaction opportunities. Our revenue profile will shift to more recurring revenue from a higher mix of lease extensions.

現在，讓我對我們的 2025 年指導進行更詳細的闡述。首先是SendTech。如同先前的指導，我們預計 2025 年將成為一個過渡年，因為其遷移週期將結束。由於交易機會減少，我們的前期設備收入將會下降。我們的收入結構將轉向透過更高組合的租賃延期來獲得更多的經常性收入。

From a modeling perspective, we expect SendTech revenue and gross profit to experience a similar rate of decline in the first half of 2025, as we saw in the second half of 2024. We expect this to moderate in the second half of '25.

從模型角度來看，我們預計 SendTech 的收入和毛利在 2025 年上半年將經歷與 2024 年下半年類似的下降速度。我們預計這種情況將在2025年下半年得到緩和。

We expect shipping to continue to grow at double digit rates and partially offset the product migration headwinds.

我們預期運輸量將繼續以兩位數的速度成長，並部分抵銷產品遷移的阻力。

Turning to Presort, Presort had a great 2024, and we expect to continue strong financial performance in 2025. In addition, we have a robust pipeline of tuck in M&A opportunities. These are not factored into our expectations and would be incremental to guidance.

談到 Presort，Presort 在 2024 年取得了出色的成績，我們預計 2025 年將繼續保持強勁的財務表現。此外，我們擁有大量內部併購機會。這些並未計入我們的預期，並將作為指導的增量。

Since this will be my last earnings call with you, I want to conclude by saying that it's been an honor to serve as the Interim CFO at Pitney Bowes and that I'm proud of everything the team has accomplished in recent months. I look forward to helping Bob with his transition and welcome him to the company.

由於這將是我最後一次與你們進行財報電話會議，最後我想說，我很榮幸能夠擔任 Pitney Bowes 的臨時首席財務官，並且我為團隊近幾個月來取得的成就感到自豪。我期待著幫助鮑勃完成他的轉變並歡迎他加入公司。

And with that, I'll pass it back over to Lance. Thank you.

說完這些，我就把它交還給 Lance。謝謝。

Thank you, John. To sum up our message today, we have come a long way and have a solid foundation for the future. I see 2025 as a year of continued progress following the transformative changes we made in 2024. We have a lot of work to do, but as I shared earlier about our growth strategy, we see many exciting opportunities before us and are forging ahead with simplicity, speed, and sales as our guide to becoming an even more profitable and efficient organization.

謝謝你，約翰。總結我們今天的訊息，我們已經走了很長一段路，並且為未來打下了堅實的基礎。我認為 2025 年將是我們在 2024 年實現變革後繼續進步的一年。我們還有很多工作要做，但正如我之前分享的成長策略一樣，我們看到眼前有許多令人興奮的機會，並以簡單、速度和銷售為指導，努力成為一個更有利可圖、更有效率的組織。

And now we'll open it up for questions.

現在我們開始提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Anthony Lebiedzinski, Sidoti.

安東尼·萊比津斯基，西多蒂。

Good afternoon, everyone. And thank you for taking the questions. It's really nice to see the out performance in the quarter and the guidance looks pretty good as well. And, John, best of luck in your pending retirement. So first, question here for me, I guess, going back to the pre-announcement that you guys had a couple of weeks ago, and also, that's when you announced the final paydown of the OakTree.

大家下午好。感謝您回答這些問題。看到本季的出色表現真是令人欣喜，而且預期也相當不錯。約翰，祝你退休後一切順利。所以首先，我想問這個問題，回到你們幾週前發布的預先公告，當時你們宣布了 OakTree 的最終償付。

In that release, you guys talked about the EBIT being better because of some one-time in nature items. So maybe I missed it, but maybe if you could just -- maybe just clarify what those one-time items was and kind of, how much of that was -- because of some one-time items.

在那份新聞稿中，你們談到由於一些一次性項目，息稅前利潤會更好。所以也許我錯過了，但也許你可以——也許只是澄清一下那些一次性物品是什麼，以及其中有多少——因為一些一次性物品。

Hey, Anthony, it's John. Nice to hear from you. So, the outperform was really twofold, Anthony, I'll get to the one time in a second. We actually had better performance in the business that was beginning to layer in at the early part of the quarter. So that was a big part of the outperform. We also had some additional savings that -- quite frankly, became more clear to us as we became more aware of what the business looks like in a more simple fashion with just two business segments.

嘿，安東尼，我是約翰。很高興收到你的來信。因此，安東尼，實際表現優異有雙重意義，我馬上就會講到這一點。事實上，我們在本季初開始分層的業務中表現更好。所以這是表現優異的重要因素。我們也做了一些額外的節省——坦白說，隨著我們越來越意識到只有兩個業務部門、以更簡單的方式開展業務，這些節省對我們來說變得更加清晰。

So as we were organizing ourselves and going through the savings process, we recognized that there was more savings than we previously had thought. It was primarily overheads, Anthony. Things that were third party related, and they started to actually fall into place, and quite frankly, they fell into place, a lot quicker than we thought that they would.

因此，當我們組織起來並經歷儲蓄過程時，我們意識到儲蓄比我們之前想像的要多。這主要是開銷，安東尼。與第三方相關的事情實際上開始步入正軌，坦白說，它們步入正軌的速度比我們想像的要快得多。

Okay, that sounds good. And then, with respect to Presort, so the EBIT margins used to be historically in the range between anywhere from mid-teens to kind of low 20s. Now the last two quarters, you're in a high 20% range. So, is this kind of the new normal? Or do you think these -- the higher margins are sustainable, as we look forward, I know there was a benefit for pricing here. To just -- how do we think about that?

好的，聽起來不錯。然後，就預分類而言，EBIT 利潤率的歷史範圍通常在十幾歲到二十多歲之間。現在過去兩個季度，成長率都處於 20% 的高點。那麼，這是一種新常態嗎？或者您認為這些——更高的利潤率是可持續的，正如我們展望未來，我知道這裡的定價是有好處的。只是──我們該如何看待這個問題？

Yeah, I mean, in the quarter, we ended up -- excuse me, from a full year perspective our EBIT margins about 25% versus about 18% last year. So I think, what you saw in the second half of this year is where we'd like to think, going into the first half of next year should be. I mean, and that's a combination of two things. One is pricing, the mix of the volumes that we're seeing.

是的，我的意思是，在本季度，我們最終——對不起，從全年角度來看，我們的息稅前利潤率約為 25%，而去年約為 18%。所以我認為，今年下半年所看到的情況正是我們所期望的，明年上半年也應該如此。我的意思是，這是兩件事的結合。一是定價，也就是我們看到的交易量組合。

And also we keep mentioning the productivity, let's not forget about the efforts that the team's putting in around the CapEx that we've invested and the return that we're getting on that productivity return.

而且我們一直在提到生產力，讓我們不要忘記團隊在我們所投資的資本支出方面所付出的努力以及我們在生產力回報上所獲得的回報。

Got you. Okay. And then, as far as, SendTech, so I know you guys talked about the product migration, so it looks like that's going to be a bit of a headwind here, more so in the first half versus the back half of the year. But, as we look forward to 2026, is that a period where you think that you, as you fully anniversary all of that and then you grow the shipping revenue, you'll start to see improvements in margins in SendTech by that point?

明白了。好的。然後，就 SendTech 而言，我知道你們談到了產品遷移，所以看起來這將是一個阻力，尤其是在上半年而不是下半年。但是，當我們展望 2026 年時，您是否認為，在這樣一個時期，隨著您完全實現所有目標並增加運輸收入，到那時，您會開始看到 SendTech 利潤率的提高？

Yeah, I mean by the time -- the way we see it on the longer lens, Anthony, and keep in mind, it is a longer lens, we actually start to see the continuum of the shipping growth, and we talk about shipping growth rates continue to be double digit going into 2025. And by the time we get to '26, we're really expecting the improvement in shipping year over year to outweigh the decline on the mailing business. So that's kind of where the lines cross and that's how we've been seeing it, and I think that's what our view is right now.

是的，我的意思是，安東尼，當我們用更長遠的眼光來看時，請記住，這是一個更長遠的鏡頭，我們實際上開始看到航運增長的連續性，我們談論的是航運增長率在 2025 年繼續保持兩位數。到 26 年，我們確實希望運輸業務的逐年改善能夠抵消郵寄業務的下滑。這就是界線交叉的地方，這就是我們一直以來的看法，我認為這也是我們現在的看法。

Got you. And then, just to follow up about shipping, so obviously, it is a growing sub-segment of SendTech. Do you guys have a goal in mind as to how much of segment revenue that could be, whether it's next year or the year after that. I just wanted to get your take as to what you think the goal is or what you think that could be.

明白了。然後，再跟進一下運輸問題，顯然，它是 SendTech 的一個不斷增長的子領域。你們心中是否有一個目標，就是這個細分市場的收入將達到多少，無論是明年還是後年？我只是想了解一下您認為目標是什麼或可能是什麼。

Hey Anthony, it's Lance. We're super excited about the shipping technology business within SendTech, and that's not something that sort of grows and then stops growing, we have a very long term optimistic view of that portion of that business and and it's a very nice sort of high margin business. It's largely SaaS revenues and kind of related revenue lines, and I think that that's something that could continue to perform over the long run.

嘿，安東尼，我是蘭斯。我們對 SendTech 內部的航運技術業務感到非常興奮，這不是一種成長然後停止成長的業務，我們對該業務的這一部分持非常長期樂觀的看法，而且它是一種非常好的高利潤業務。它主要是 SaaS 收入和相關收入線，我認為這些收入可以長期持續成長。

It's also a much larger market and the the TAM, the total available market in shipping is far larger than it is in mailing. And so I think increasingly going to take share of a of a larger and growing market.

這也是一個更大的市場，TAM，即航運的總可用市場遠大於郵寄市場。因此，我認為我們將在更大、更不斷成長的市場中佔據越來越大的份額。

All right, yeah, well, that's great to hear. And then I guess the last question before I pass it on to others. So I guess, now that the business is more predictable, how should we think about the the quarterly distribution or the seasonality of earnings throughout the year or just wondering, if there's anything that we should be aware as far as the quarterly cadence, of the business throughout the year.

好的，是的，很高興聽到這個消息。然後我想在把它傳遞給其他人之前，這是最後一個問題。所以我想，既然現在業務更加可預測，我們應該如何考慮季度分佈或全年收益的季節性，或者只是想知道，就全年業務的季度節奏而言，我們是否應該注意任何事情。

Yeah, I think you'd see a similar sort of cadence and pace on the restated business as you've seen in the past. And Anthony, you're familiar with some of the seasonality with Presort with the peak in the first quarter and first class and (inaudible) in the fourth quarter. -- I'm sorry, did I say first class, I meant first quarter for first class, and(inaudible) in the fourth quarter. And then in the fourth quarter, fourth quarter has typically seemly high quarter for us. So I think that's what we've seen, and I don't really expect much deviation from that.

是的，我認為你會看到重述業務的節奏和速度與過去類似。安東尼，您熟悉 Presort 的一些季節性，其高峰出現在第一季度，頭等艙和（聽不清楚）出現在第四季度。 ——對不起，我說的是一流嗎，我的意思是第一季是一流，而且（聽不清楚）在第四季。然後在第四季度，第四季度通常對我們來說是一個高季度。所以我認為這就是我們所看到的，而且我並不認為會有太大的偏差。

Alright. Thank you very much and best of luck.

好吧。非常感謝，祝你好運。

David Steinhardt, Contrarian Capital.

大衛·斯坦哈特（David Steinhardt），Contrarian Capital。

Hey, great work so far. In terms of capital allocation, the board has authorized $150 million to be deployed into share repurchases. Can you give us any idea of the cadence for that deployment and what the company will be looking at and the board will be looking at to determine when to repurchase shares.

嘿，到目前為止做得很好。在資本配置方面，董事會已批准撥款1.5億美元用於股票回購。您能否向我們介紹一下此次部署的節奏，以及公司和董事會將關注哪些因素來決定何時回購股票。

Hey David, thanks for the question. I'll put it into context, which is that the $150 million authorized program is over the course of the next three years, and we're guiding to $330 million to $370 million in free cash flow for 2025 alone.

嘿，大衛，謝謝你的提問。我來解釋一下，這項授權計畫將在未來三年內實施，我們預計僅在 2025 年，自由現金流就將達到 3.3 億至 3.7 億美元。

So, we don't have specific timing on executing it, we've got a Board and a leadership team that's got a lot of experience in the capital markets and is looking for opportunities to take advantage of kind of market situations that make sense for us. So, we'll be opportunistic, we'll be prudent, and we'll regularly report back on our progress.

因此，我們沒有具體的執行時間，我們有一個董事會和一個領導團隊，他們在資本市場擁有豐富的經驗，並且正在尋找機會利用對我們有意義的市場狀況。因此，我們會抓住機會，保持謹慎，並定期報告我們的進度。

Great, and in terms of your debt. You'll have significant free cash flow theoretically over the next year. Can you give us a sense of which debt securities you might be tackling first in terms of paying them down or --

很好，就你的債務而言。從理論上講，明年您將獲得大量自由現金流。您能否告訴我們，在償還債務方面，您可能會先處理哪些債務證券，或者--

Yeah, I mean, I would say similarly will be opportunistic, but we'll continue to prioritize nearer term maturities and also more expensive debt. There might be opportunities in some of our longer standing debt if there are again kind of market situations that enable us to purchase them at attractive prices, we'll be open to that.

是的，我的意思是，我想說同樣會是機會主義的，但我們將繼續優先考慮較短期的到期日以及更昂貴的債務。如果市場情況再次允許我們以有吸引力的價格購買我們的一些長期債務，那麼這些債務中可能存在機會，我們會對此持開放態度。

But as you mentioned, deleveraging remains important for us and we do have an expectation of significant cash generation that can continue to deleverage our balance sheet.

但正如您所提到的，去槓桿對我們仍然很重要，我們確實期望產生大量現金，從而可以繼續去槓桿我們的資產負債表。

So giving more color into the future of the SendTech business. As you've mentioned on this call, you expect to see growth opportunities. Perhaps it makes sense to have a wider Investor Day to perhaps increase the reach and voice the company, that other people might understand the value that's at play here.

從而為 SendTech 業務的未來增添更多色彩。正如您在這次電話會議上提到的，您期待看到成長機會。舉辦更廣泛的投資者日或許是有意義的，這樣可以擴大公司的影響力和發言權，讓其他人能夠理解其中的價值。

Yeah, no, I appreciate the thought, and I think that makes a lot of sense. It's something that we'll be looking at going forward. I think that the SendTech business is super exciting. And I think as you're kind of alluding to a little bit misappreciated and we're going to be attempting to do just a better and better job giving clarity to that business, and continuing to be transparent about what exactly we do and what the opportunities are.

是的，不，我很欣賞這個想法，而且我認為這很有道理。這是我們今後將持續關注的事情。我認為 SendTech 業務非常令人興奮。我認為，正如您所暗示的，我們有點被誤解了，我們將努力做得越來越好，使這項業務更加清晰，並繼續透明地說明我們到底在做什麼以及有哪些機會。

Great. Thank you so much.

偉大的。太感謝了。

Kartik Mehta, North Coast Research.

梅塔 (Kartik Mehta)，北海岸研究公司。

Hey, good afternoon. Yeah, just on the Presort business, I know you talked a little bit about pricing and I'm wondering what your volume expectations are for 2025.

嘿，下午好。是的，就預分類業務而言，我知道您談了一些定價問題，我想知道您對 2025 年的銷售預期是多少。

Yeah, we expect to see -- Hey Karthik, it's John. So we expect to see similar volumes in in Presort going forward and it's really about the mix of the four buckets that we track between first class and marketing mail and flats.

是的，我們希望看到──嘿，卡提克，我是約翰。因此，我們預計未來預分揀的數量將與此類似，這實際上取決於我們在頭等郵件、行銷郵件和平信之間追蹤的四個類別的組合。

So we're going to see that and quite frankly, Kartik, I think we've mentioned this before, in certain quarters and in particular this past quarter, we've seen a fair amount of project work, the work that comes up, sort of, I'll say a bonus if you would from a volumes perspective, sort of unplanned for our clients based off of events that they serve. And that could actually play into some of the mix that we might see going forward. It certainly played into some of the mix we saw in the past year.

因此，我們將會看到這一點，坦率地說，卡蒂克，我想我們之前已經提到過這一點，在某些季度，特別是上個季度，我們已經看到了相當多的項目工作，從數量的角度來看，出現的這些工作，有點，如果你願意的話，我會說這是一種獎勵，從數量的角度來看，這些工作是根據我們的客戶所提供的事件而沒有計劃為他們提供的計劃。這實際上可能會對我們未來可能看到的一些情況產生影響。它確實在我們去年看到的一些組合中發揮了作用。

Hey Lance, it seems like you guys have done a great job on the capital side, paying down debt, getting this authorization from the Board, and I'm wondering maybe what metrics you'll need to see or the Board will need to see for them to feel comfortable in executing the authorization?

嘿，蘭斯，看起來你們在資本方面做得很好，償還了債務，獲得了董事會的授權，我想知道你或董事會需要看到哪些指標才能放心地執行授權？

Yeah, I mean, we're tracking closely first of all around the constraints of our debt covenants, so we successfully renegotiated several lines of our debt, our revolver, our TLA and our TLB, and as part of doing, that freed up and provided company with a lot more flexibility going forward, it really brings our covenants back to a more market like package.

是的，我的意思是，我們首先密切關注債務契約的限制，因此我們成功地重新協商了幾項債務、循環信貸、TLA 和 TLB，作為這樣做的一部分，這釋放了公司並為公司提供了更多的未來靈活性，它確實使我們的契約回歸到更像市場的一攬子計劃。

But as I as I mentioned, we'll be operating within those constraints. So, at least earlier on there's certain limitations as to what we can do. But as we evaluate it, we'll be looking closely at what our leverage ratio is, what our cash flow generation is, what market opportunities there are and hopefully making good and prudent decisions.

但正如我所提到的，我們將在這些限制內開展工作。所以，至少在早期我們能做的事情有一定的限制。但在評估時，我們會密切注意我們的槓桿率、現金流量產生狀況、市場機會，並希望做出正確且審慎的決策。

Good, Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

好的，非常感謝。我真的很感激。

Justin Dopierala, DOMO Capital Management.

Justin Dopierala，DOMO 資本管理公司。

Yeah, hi, thank you. First off, incredible quarter, execution, incredibly thoughtful shareholder value and enhancing initiatives. Absolutely love it. Maybe I missed it, but did you comment on what you expect 2025 CapEx to be?

是的，你好，謝謝你。首先，令人難以置信的季度、執行、令人難以置信的周到的股東價值和提升舉措。非常喜歡它。也許我錯過了，但你有沒有評論過你對 2025 年資本支出的預期？

Hey, Justin, it's John. How are you? We're quoting a very similar 2025 and, maybe a little better, but we're just -- let's just say it's very similar to 2024.

嘿，賈斯汀，我是約翰。你好嗎？我們引用的是非常相似的 2025 年，甚至可能更好一些，但我們只是 - 我們只能說它與 2024 年非常相似。

Okay. And correct me if I'm wrong, but your EBIT of $385 million for the year, that was $25 million more than what you got it to in mid-November, right?

好的。如果我錯了請糾正我，但您今年的息稅前利潤為 3.85 億美元，比 11 月中旬的息稅前利潤高出 2500 萬美元，對嗎？

It was $20 million better than the high-end, yes.

是的，它比高端產品貴了 2000 萬美元。

Okay. Okay. So yes, along those lines, my math was leading me to an adjusted EBIT of around $490 million in '25, but that was before you blew away all of your previous guidance and added additional cost cuts. So I mean, I usually have you over $500 million and EBIT now, I guess, therefore, my question is, do you think you're kind of consistently being overly conservative with the guidance?

好的。好的。所以是的，按照這個思路，我的計算結果顯示 25 年的調整後息稅前利潤約為 4.9 億美元，但那是在你放棄所有之前的指導並增加額外的成本削減之前。所以我的意思是，我通常有超過 5 億美元的息稅前利潤，我想，因此，我的問題是，您是否認為您的指導一直過於保守？

So, I really appreciate your enthusiasm. I'm enthusiastic as well, but you, I'm going to stick to my range of what we quoted earlier, $450 million to $480 million. And look, there's a lot of logic behind what we're seeing. We talked about some of the headwinds that are probably backing off, what you might see, but I'm going to stick firm and appreciate your comments.

所以，我真的很感激你的熱情。我也很熱情，但是，我將堅持我們之前報價的範圍，即 4.5 億美元到 4.8 億美元。看看吧，我們所看到的一切背後有許多邏輯。我們討論了一些可能正在減弱的不利因素，您可能會看到這些因素，但我會堅持下去並感謝您的評論。

All right. And then, lastly, on the share repurchase, I know a lot of it has already been asked, but I guess maybe just two things. Is it fair to say that at $10 per share, you view the shares of the company are significantly undervalued?

好的。最後，關於股票回購，我知道已經有很多問題需要解決，但我想可能只有兩件事。您認為以每股 10 美元的價格計算，該公司的股價是否被嚴重低估？

Yeah, we won't specifically answer that question, but I will say that, we see a lot of great opportunity for our company going forward. I think that there's a continued strong cash generation. I think that we see continued strong earnings growth, and we're excited on the new business segments and opportunities on the revenue side.

是的，我們不會具體回答這個問題，但我要說的是，我們看到公司未來有很多很好的發展機會。我認為現金產生能力將持續強勁成長。我認為我們的獲利將持續強勁成長，我們對新的業務領域和收入的機會感到興奮。

Okay. I know you talked about the covenants. I mean, so based on what you renegotiated, is it fair to say that -- I mean, if you so chose that you would be able to repurchase the entire $150 million worth of stock in 2025, at least from a covenant standpoint.

好的。我知道你談到了契約。我的意思是，根據你們重新談判的內容，這樣說公平嗎——我的意思是，如果你們選擇這樣做，那麼你們將能夠在 2025 年回購全部價值 1.5 億美元的股票，至少從契約的角度來看是這樣。

Yeah, what I would say is that, the credit agreement and its details are going to be filed in an 8-K shortly, and so that will go, kind of covenant by covenant and give you all the details that you need. There's just a lot of put and takes, and it's hard to kind of overly simplify that question.

是的，我想說的是，信用協議及其細節將很快以 8-K 形式提交，這樣，它將以契約的形式為您提供所需的所有細節。有很多事情要做，很難過度簡化這個問題。

All right, thanks a lot, keep up the great work.

好的，非常感謝，繼續努力。

Appreciate it, Justin.

非常感謝，賈斯汀。

Peter Sakon, CreditSites.

Peter Sakon，CreditSites。

Hi, good evening. I had a question regarding the corporate expense significant decline in the fourth quarter. Was that just the cost savings that you've announced, or has there been any reallocation of corporate to the business units?

嗨，晚上好。我有一個關於第四季度公司費用大幅下降的問題。這僅僅是你們宣布的成本節約嗎，還是公司對業務部門進行了重新分配？

Hey, Peter, it's John. That's straight from cost savings. We have -- and don't forget I mentioned earlier in my remarks in the fourth quarter, there was a little bit of a pushdown of how we accrued for comp that was about $5 million in the quarter.

嘿，彼得，我是約翰。這直接體現在成本節省。我們有——別忘了我在第四季度的評論中提到過，我們本季的應計薪酬略有下降，約為 500 萬美元。

But aside from that, the vast majority of that is, if not all, the remainder is all about our cost savings. Keep in mind that our cost savings primarily was wrapped around in overheads -- the corporate overheads. So that's where you're seeing it.

但除此之外，其中絕大部分（如果不是全部）都與成本節約有關。請記住，我們的成本節省主要用於管理費用—公司管理費用。這就是你所看到的。

How many employees would you say you've got at corporate today versus maybe a year ago?

與一年前相比，您認為現在公司有多少名員工？

I didn't catch the first part of that, Peter.

彼得，我沒聽清楚第一部分。

How many employees do you have, roughly at year end versus a year ago?

與去年同期相比，今年底您大約有多少名員工？

Oh gosh. I know that in -- we've announced, a reduction of force over the year of in excess of 2000 people, but a lot of that was wrapped around GEC. So, I think we can probably follow up with you on that one offline. I mean, all that data is going to be in the 8-K. And the 8-K is going to be out within about 10 days or so.

哦天哪。我知道，我們已經宣布，今年將裁減超過 2000 人的兵力，但其中很大一部分是圍繞著 GEC 進行的。所以，我想我們可以就此問題與您進行線下跟進。我的意思是，所有資料都將儲存在 8-K 中。8-K 將在大約 10 天後發布。

Okay, and then could you elaborate on this tension charge and tell me, to better understand.

好的，那麼您能否詳細說明一下這種緊張局勢並告訴我，以便更好地理解。

Yeah, so we actually had a lump sum campaign in the US and in Canada, and what that did was it actually positioned us better from a risk balance for our pension. Keeping in mind that our pension in the US is about 99% in change funded, and in Canada we're over 100% funded. This puts us in much better position and the $91 million was a non-cash item. We recorded that in GAAP and you won't see that in the adjusted -- but what that was is to really account to true up for the campaign reduction. And it really -- and again it just puts us in better position from our assets and liabilities.

是的，我們實際上在美國和加拿大開展了一次總付活動，這樣做實際上使我們的退休金在風險平衡方面處於更有利的地位。請記住，在美國，我們的退休金大約有 99% 是以零錢形式存入的，而在加拿大，我們的退休金則是 100% 以上是以零錢形式存入的。這使我們處於更有利的地位，而且這 9,100 萬美元是非現金項目。我們在 GAAP 中記錄了這一點，但您在調整後不會看到這一點 - 但那確實是為了彌補競選活動的減少。這確實 — — 而且它再次讓我們在資產和負債方面處於更有利的地位。

So, maybe to simplify it, -- the amount of It is reduced, so yeah, there's volatility in the market, the amount of volatility is going down because you have people that have been taken off the books, if you will. Is that the right way to think about it?

因此，也許可以簡化一下，它的數量減少了，所以是的，市場存在波動，波動量正在下降，因為有些人已經被從賬簿上除名了，如果你願意的話。這是正確的思考方式嗎？

That's exactly so. It represented about 10% of the plant assets.

確實如此。它約佔工廠資產的10％。

Okay, that's all I've got.

好的，這就是我所知道的全部。

So as you reduce your exposure on the plan itself, you reduce your exposure in the market.

因此，當您減少對計劃本身的曝光時，您也會減少對市場的曝光。

Understood. Thank you.

明白了。謝謝。

Matthew Swope, Baird.

馬修‧斯沃普，貝爾德。

Congratulations guys on a great year. I was wondering, John, how do you think about the 2027 and 2029 notes now that you've chipped away at so much of the capital structure? Are those bonds we could see you refinanced either one or both of this year?

恭喜大家度過了美好的一年。約翰，我想知道，既然你已經削減瞭如此多的資本結構，你對 2027 年和 2029 年的票據有何看法？我們可以看到您今年對這些債券中的一隻或兩隻進行再融資嗎？

So I'm going to -- Hey, Matt, how are you? I'm going to refer back to something I said earlier. So as we think about, our capital allocation strategy, I mean we're going to look at all of the notes, all of the debt, and of course, we'll probably have a closer eye on the nearer term debt, but I mean, we're going to be opportunistic when that comes available to us as we go through the year.

所以我要——嘿，馬特，你好嗎？我將回顧我之前說過的話。因此，當我們考慮我們的資本配置策略時，我的意思是我們將關注所有的票據、所有的債務，當然，我們可能會更密切地關注短期債務，但我的意思是，當我們在今年內有機會時，我們將抓住機會。

Were you concerned about announcing the sort of move towards at least more distributions to shareholders before you have the whole cap structure taken care of? I know it's sort of a tenuous dance back and forth, but coming out of the last few years, everything that the debt has gone through and then the amazing recovery you've had in the last 18 months or so. Was there any hesitation in announcing the shareholder distributions now?

在處理整個上限結構之前，您是否擔心宣布至少向股東分配更多資金的舉措？我知道這就像一場來回的、微妙的舞蹈，但從過去幾年來看，債務經歷了種種考驗，而後又在過去 18 個月左右經歷了驚人的復甦。現在宣布股東分配還有什麼猶豫嗎？

I don't think, Matt, there was ever any hesitation in any announcements, but there was hesitation in doing anything while the company was not achieving the kind of cash flow that gave us confidence to put a program like that in place.

馬特，我認為在任何公告中都沒有猶豫，但是當公司沒有實現讓我們有信心實施這樣的計劃的那種現金流時，做任何事情都會猶豫。

Looking back the past couple of years, GEC was just such an anchor to the business and such a drain of cash. And, there was a lot of excess spend in the company and we just really couldn't do it. Now that we've repositioned the company, we have an opportunity and it's a great thing for us to take advantage of.

回顧過去幾年，GEC 既是公司的支柱，也是現金的消耗者。而且，公司有很多超支，我們真的無力做到這一點。現在我們已經重新定位了公司，我們有一個機會，這對我們來說是一件非常好的事情。

No, that's very fair, and you guys really have done a great job. Can I ask a nuts and bolts one, John, on -- you talked about free cash flow, without CapEx, without cash restructuring. That free cash flow number does include cash taxes, right? Do you have an estimate, especially with the savings you have now on cash taxes for 2025 or maybe even the next couple of years?

不，這非常公平，你們確實做得很好。約翰，我可以問一個基本問題嗎──你談到了沒有資本支出、沒有現金重組的自由現金流。自由現金流數字確實包括現金稅，對嗎？您有沒有估算一下，特別是考慮到您現在節省的現金稅，到 2025 年甚至未來幾年需要繳多少稅？

Yeah, I mean, so look, the bulk of the the tax asset is going to be recognized in the cash flow primarily over the next, I'd say '25, '26, and and probably trickle a little bit into '27. So think about it -- if you think about it that way. Not to disclose the absolute number right now, but I'd say it's probably evenly distribute going out in the next three years.

是的，我的意思是，大部分稅收資產將主要在接下來的現金流中得到確認，我想說的是 25 年、26 年，並且可能會在 27 年稍微減少一點。所以想想看——如果你這樣想的話。現在不透露絕對數字，但我認為未來三年內可能會均勻分佈。

Okay. And then as far as the cash restructuring, I know that I think you said you've paid $120 million out of the $165 million, is it right to use about a $45 million cash restructuring number for 2025?

好的。然後就現金重組而言，我知道您說您已經支付了 1.65 億美元中的 1.2 億美元，那麼對於 2025 年使用約 4500 萬美元的現金重組數字是否正確？

Well that reference was on the GEC exit cost, so if we're talking about the same thing. So yes, against the $165 million, we paid out about $120 million, and that would be the math on the go.

嗯，那個參考是關於 GEC 退出成本的，所以我們談論的是同一件事。是的，相對於 1.65 億美元，我們支付了約 1.2 億美元，這就是正在進行的計算。

Right. Okay, right, that makes sense. And then how about as far as other cash restructuring charges to achieve the cost savings you're getting?

正確的。好的，是的，這很有道理。那麼，就其他現金重組費用而言，如何實現成本節約呢？

Well, I tell you that, a lot of the cost savings that we've done that would accompany a restructuring payment, a lot of that is behind us in 2024. So I'm not going to predict or forecast the restructuring payment, cash out today, but I tell you that the most of that is behind us on the trend from $170 million to $190 million. A lot of that is behind us already.

好吧，我告訴你，我們透過重組付款節省的許多成本，到 2024 年就已經實現了很多了。因此，我不會預測今天的重組付款和現金支出，但我告訴你們，其中大部分已經過去，趨勢是從 1.7 億美元到 1.9 億美元。其中很多都已經過去了。

Great. And then Lance, just one last one for me. You mentioned in your prepared comments about sort of moving towards an inflection point where full company revenue goes positive. Is that something that happens in 2025 you think or 2026? How do you look at that?

偉大的。然後是蘭斯，這是我的最後一個問題。您在準備好的評論中提到了公司整體收入將趨於正成長的轉折點。您認為這會在 2025 年或 2026 年發生嗎？您怎麼看待這個？

We guided our revenues in 2025. So, we're not anticipating that in 2025, but you know we're working hard to make it happen and really very excited about heading toward that day.

我們對 2025 年的收入進行了預測。所以，我們並不期望在 2025 年實現這一目標，但你知道我們正在努力實現這一目標，並且對這一天的到來感到非常興奮。

That's great. Well, congratulations again guys.

那太棒了。好吧，再次恭喜你們。

Thanks Matt.

謝謝馬特。

At this time we have no further questions. Mr. Rosenzweig, any additional remarks at this time?

目前我們沒有其他問題。羅森茨威格先生，您現在還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Thank you everyone for joining for our quarterly call. Thank you for the excellent questions and thank you particularly to John for your partnership and your your phenomenal service to the company. Looking forward to updating everyone next quarter.

感謝大家參加我們的季度電話會議。感謝您提出的這些精彩問題，並特別感謝約翰的合作以及您為公司提供的卓越服務。期待下個季度向大家更新狀況。

Thanks Lance.

謝謝蘭斯。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Your conference has concluded. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect.

謝謝各位，女士們、先生們。您的會議已結束。感謝您的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。