PBF Energy Inc (PBF) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone, and welcome to the PBF Energy fourth-quarter and year-end 2024 earnings conference call and webcast. (Operator Instructions) Please note this conference is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 PBF Energy 2024 年第四季和年終收益電話會議和網路廣播。（操作員指示）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Colin Murray of Investor Relations. Sir, you may begin.

現在我很高興將發言權交給投資者關係部的 Colin Murray。先生，您可以開始啦。

Thank you, Brittany. Good morning and welcome to today's call. With me today are Matt Lucey, our President and CEO; Mike Bukowski our Senior Vice-President and Head of Refining; Karen Davis, our CFO; and several other members of our management team. Copies of today's earnings release and our 10-K filing, including supplemental information, are available on our website.

謝謝你，布列塔尼。早上好，歡迎參加今天的電話會議。今天與我在一起的有我們的總裁兼執行長 Matt Lucey；我們的高級副總裁兼煉油主管 Mike Bukowski；我們的財務長 Karen Davis；以及我們管理團隊的其他幾位成員。今天的收益報告和我們的 10-K 文件的副本（包括補充資訊）可在我們的網站上查閱。

Before getting started, I'd like to direct your attention to the Safe Harbor statement contained in today's press release. Statements that express the company's or management's expectations or predictions of the future are forward-looking statements intended to be covered by the Safe Harbor provisions under federal securities laws.

在開始之前，我想請大家注意今天的新聞稿中的安全港聲明。表達公司或管理層對未來的期望或預測的陳述是前瞻性陳述，旨在受聯邦證券法的安全港條款的保護。

Consistent with our prior periods, we will discuss our results, excluding special items, which are described in today's press release. Also included in the press release is forward-looking guidance information. For any questions on these items or other follow-up questions, please contact Investor Relations after today's call. For reconciliations of any non-GAAP measures mentioned on today's call, please refer to the supplemental tables provided in the press release.

與先前的期間一致，我們將討論我們的結果（不包括特殊項目），這些結果在今天的新聞稿中進行了描述。新聞稿中還包括前瞻性指導資訊。如果對這些事項或其他後續問題有任何疑問，請在今天的電話會議後聯絡投資者關係部。對於今天電話會議上提到的任何非公認會計準則指標的對賬，請參閱新聞稿中提供的補充表格。

I'll now turn the call over to Matt Lucey.

現在我將電話轉給 Matt Lucey。

Thanks, Colin. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining the call. Before commenting on the fourth quarter and 2024 in general, I would like to address the fire that we experienced at the Martinez refinery on February 1.

謝謝，科林。大家早安，感謝大家參加電話會議。在對第四季度和 2024 年的總體情況發表評論之前，我想先談談 2 月 1 日我們在馬丁內斯煉油廠經歷的火災。

I personally want to thank all the first responders including our own employees, the Contra Costa County fire department, Martinez Police, and the mutual aid responders from our local industrial peers, who successfully battled the fire and established control. I am thankful there were no injuries beyond first aid on a few folks.

我個人要感謝所有第一響應者，包括我們自己的員工、康特拉科斯塔縣消防部門、馬丁內斯警察局以及來自當地工業同行的互助響應者，他們成功撲滅了大火併控制了局面。我很慶幸，除了幾個人接受了急救外，沒有人受傷。

We cannot ignore the impact that this incident had on the surrounding Martinez community. PBF Energy earns the right to operate in the communities where we have facilities by being a responsible, safe, and reliable operator. We apologize to everyone affected by the incident.

我們不能忽視這件事對周圍馬丁內斯社區的影響。PBF Energy 透過成為負責任、安全和可靠的營運商贏得了在我們擁有設施的社區中運作的權利。我們向所有受到此事件影響的人表示歉意。

We need to maintain a cooperative partnership with the state, county, and city to move forward constructively. The fire began as refinery workers prepared for planned maintenance of a process unit. We were in the process of isolating shutdown equipment when the fire began.

我們需要與州、縣、市保持合作關係，建設性地向前發展。火災發生在煉油廠工人準備對製程裝置進行計畫維護時。火災發生時，我們正在隔離關閉設備。

We are still early in the recovery process. Access to the point of origin is limited until the completion of ongoing investigations. We are in the process of assessing the extent of the damage, and we experienced personnel set up to determine the necessary next steps.

我們仍處於恢復過程的早期階段。在正在進行的調查完成之前，對原產地的訪問受到限制。我們正在評估損失程度，並安排了經驗豐富的人員來確定必要的後續措施。

Looking ahead, while we don't have all the answers, we fully understand the importance of the products that we manufacture for the people of California. While California is a difficult regulatory environment, the California market, with its unique specifications, is short refined products and thus relies on imports.

展望未來，雖然我們還沒有全部答案，但我們完全理解為加州人民生產的產品的重要性。雖然加州的監管環境較為嚴格，但加州市場由於其獨特的規範，導致成品油短缺，因此依賴進口。

The situation is set to compound itself with the announced shutdown of LA Basin Refinery scheduled for this fall. While the full impact from this incident is not yet known, it's important to note that PBF is properly insured for events such as this.

隨著洛杉磯盆地煉油廠於今年秋季宣布關閉，情況將進一步惡化。雖然目前尚不清楚此事件的全部影響，但值得注意的是，PBF 已為此類事件投保了適當的保險。

Moving on to the fourth quarter, results reflect the challenging markets faced by refiners, comprised mainly of a weak margin environment and poor crude differentials, which is a continuation of the conditions that dominated the second half of 2024.

進入第四季度，業績反映了煉油商面臨的嚴峻市場形勢，主要包括利潤環境疲軟和原油價差不佳，這是 2024 年下半年主導狀況的延續。

For the most part, our refineries operated well during the quarter. We successfully executed a major cat turnaround on budget at Chalmette. The turnaround work did adversely impact capture rates in that region. The operating performance of our assets reflects the dedication and focus of our outstanding employees who work 24/7 in all market conditions despite the refined products that are still very much in demand.

總體而言，本季我們的煉油廠運作良好。我們成功地在查爾梅特以預算完成了重大的貓咪大轉變。扭轉工作確實對該地區的捕獲率產生了不利影響。我們資產的營運表現反映了我們優秀員工的奉獻精神和專注力，儘管精煉產品的需求仍然很大，但他們在各種市場條件下仍然全天候工作。

The weak margins and market conditions experienced recently do not reflect our longer-term view that global refining supply and product demand remain tightly balanced. We believe this provides a constructive backdrop for refiners as demand for our product continues to grow globally.

近期利潤率和市場狀況較弱並未反映出我們對全球煉油供應和產品需求仍保持緊密平衡的長期觀點。我們相信，隨著全球對我們產品的需求持續增長，這為煉油商提供了建設性的背景。

Indeed, forward cracks look constructive. We expect to see a balancing of the disproportionate capacity additions we saw in 2024. 2025 net capacity additions are expected in the 700,000 to 800,000 range, with product demand growth in the 750,000 barrels per day range. This assumes new capacity operates near announced capability, something we have yet to see in some regions.

確實，向前的裂縫看起來是有建設性的。我們預計 2024 年不成比例的產能增加將會平衡。預計 2025 年淨產能增加量在 70 萬至 80 萬桶之間，產品需求成長量約為 75 萬桶/日左右。這是假設新產能接近公佈的產能，但我們在某些​​地區尚未看到這種情況。

Additionally, narrow, light, heavy, sweet sour spreads have been a headwind to our capture rate. This rewards more complexity assets in the near term. That said, we like our predominantly coastal system and access to a broad variety of feedstocks that it provides. As the global crude picture continues to evolve, as we see a shift in the market conditions that allows incremental heavy and sour barrels become economically available, that will benefit our system.

此外，窄幅、輕幅、重幅、甜酸價差一直是我們捕獲率的阻力。這會在短期內獎勵更多複雜性資產。儘管如此，我們喜歡我們主要的沿海系統以及它所提供的各種各樣的原料。隨著全球原油情勢的持續變化，我們看到市場條件的變化使得增量重質原油和酸性原油在經濟上可用，這將有利於我們的系統。

There's a lot of turbulence in the markets, and PBF is focused on controlling the aspects of our business that we can control to best position ourselves going forward. One of PBF's strengths is our financial position. In this current market cycle, PBF's balance sheet provides us with flexibility to weather challenging markets and look ahead to the next market cycle.

市場動盪不安，PBF 專注於控制我們能夠控制的業務方面，以便在未來獲得最佳定位。PBF 的優勢之一是我們的財務狀況。在當前的市場週期中，PBF 的資產負債表為我們提供了靈活性，以應對充滿挑戰的市場並展望下一個市場週期。

To be successful and enhance value for our investors, we must operate safely, reliably, and responsibly. And we must do it efficiently. With that in mind, our team has been developing a business improvement initiative across our refining footprint. And as promised, I'll now turn the call over to Mike Bukowski for comments on our cost savings program.

為了取得成功並為我們的投資者提升價值，我們必須安全、可靠且負責任地運作。我們必須有效率地完成這項任務。考慮到這一點，我們的團隊一直致力於在整個煉油業務範圍內制定業務改進計劃。正如承諾的那樣，我現在將電話轉給麥克·布考斯基，請他對我們的成本節約計劃發表評論。

Thank you, Matt. Good morning, everyone. As Matt mentioned, we have a number of initiatives ongoing at PBF that we are collectively calling our refining business improvement program or RBI for short. Achieving our targeted cash expenditure savings will be a corporate-wide effort that focuses on improving our current standards of fiscal discipline and operational excellence. We are committed to improving what are already excellent programs.

謝謝你，馬特。大家早安。正如 Matt 所提到的，PBF 正在進行多項計劃，我們統稱為煉油業務改進計劃，簡稱 RBI。實現我們的現金支出節約目標將是全公司上下共同努力的結果，重點是提高我們目前的財務紀律和卓越營運標準。我們致力於改進已經很優秀的程式。

We have identified several opportunity areas within the refining business. We've established teams to systematically capture these opportunities and effectively institutionalize the improvements to ensure the durability of these savings year over year into the future. We've launched five separate efforts led by different subject matter experts, targeting over $200 million in run rate cost savings to be implemented by the end of 2025.

我們已經確定了煉油業務中的幾個機會領域。我們已經成立了一個團隊來有系統地抓住這些機會，並有效地將改進制度化，以確保這些節省在未來逐年持續下去。我們已啟動由不同主題專家領導的五項獨立工作，目標是在 2025 年底實現超過 2 億美元的營運成本節約。

As a basic framework for the program, we've identified energy usage and turnarounds as the largest opportunity areas, representing approximately 30% to 50% of our overall target. Beyond those areas, we are looking at our procurement practices, capital planning and expenditures, maintenance and organizational design. These areas represent approximately 10% to 15% each of our targeted savings.

作為該計劃的基本框架，我們已將能源使用和周轉確定為最大的機會領域，約占我們整體目標的 30% 至 50%。除了這些領域之外，我們還在關注我們的採購實踐、資本規劃和支出、維護和組織設計。這些領域約占我們目標節省金額的 10% 至 15%。

The five teams have held several idea generation sessions in the field at our refineries and have identified multiple initiatives to capture the savings goal. Some of these initiatives are already underway. The new ideas will be prioritized, developed into implementation plans, and resourced.

這五個團隊在我們的煉油廠現場舉行了幾次創意會議，並確定了多項措施來實現節省目標。其中一些措施已在進行中。新想法將被優先考慮、制定成實施計劃並提供資源。

By the end of the first quarter, we expect to have an overall implementation plan with clear line of sight to our goal. As a commitment to our employees and to our external stakeholders, in the future, we will provide more detail on our progress in terms of what we are doing, the savings generated, all while continuing to operate safely.

到第一季末，我們預計將有一個與我們的目標清晰一致的整體實施計劃。作為對員工和外部利害關係人的承諾，未來我們將更詳細地介紹我們正在做的事情的進展、所產生的節約，同時繼續安全運作。

With that, I'll now turn it over to Karen Davis for our financial overview.

說完這些，我現在將把話題轉到凱倫戴維斯 (Karen Davis) 身上，讓他來介紹我們的財務概況。

Thank you, Mike. For the fourth quarter, we reported an adjusted net loss of $2.82 per share and adjusted EBITDA loss of $249.7 million. Included in our results is a $4.8 million loss related to PBF's equity investment in St. Bernard Renewables.

謝謝你，麥克。第四季度，我們報告調整後每股淨虧損 2.82 美元，調整後 EBITDA 虧損 2.497 億美元。我們的業績中包括與 PBF 對 St. Bernard Renewables 的股權投資相關的 480 萬美元損失。

SBR produced an average of 17,000 barrels per day of renewable diesel in the fourth quarter. First-quarter RD production is expected to be 10,000 to 12,000 barrels per day as a result of a planned catalyst change in March.

SBR 第四季平均每天生產 17,000 桶再生柴油。由於 3 月計劃更換催化劑，預計第一季 RD 產量將達到 10,000 至 12,000 桶/天。

Cash flow used in operations for the quarter was approximately $330 million, which includes a working capital headwind of approximately $83 million. Consolidated CapEx for the fourth quarter was approximately $237 million, which includes refining, corporate, and logistics.

本季經營活動所用現金流約 3.3 億美元，其中包括約 8,300 萬美元的營運資本逆差。第四季綜合資本支出約 2.37 億美元，其中包括煉油、企業和物流。

Full-year 2024 CapEx was approximately $1 billion. As mentioned on our third-quarter call, this amount includes approximately $145 million of cash outflows related to our 2023 capital program for work completed at the end of 2023. You should note that our CapEx guidance is on an incurred basis, but our cash flow statement will reflect what we actually spend for the capital expenditures and turnarounds in the period.

2024 年全年資本支出約 10 億美元。正如我們在第三季電話會議上所提到的，該金額包括與 2023 年資本計畫相關的約 1.45 億美元現金流出，該計畫將於 2023 年底完成。您應該注意到，我們的資本支出指引是以發生為基礎的，但我們的現金流量表將反映我們在該期間的實際資本支出和周轉金額。

Through share repurchases and our dividend, we returned approximately $60 million to shareholders in the fourth quarter. Since our repurchase program was introduced in December of 2022, through the end of the fourth quarter, we completed approximately $1 billion in share repurchases. This represents over 17% of our outstanding shares at the beginning of the program.

透過股票回購和股息，我們在第四季向股東返還了約 6,000 萬美元。自 2022 年 12 月推出回購計畫以來，截至第四季末，我們完成了約 10 億美元的股票回購。這佔該計劃開始時我們已發行股份的 17% 以上。

Additionally, our Board of Directors approved a regular quarterly dividend of $0.275 per share. We ended the quarter with approximately $536 million in cash and approximately $921 million of net debt. Maintaining our firm financial footing and strong balance sheet remain priorities. Our ability to fund operations and continuously invest in our assets will always be of paramount importance.

此外，我們的董事會批准每股 0.275 美元的定期季度股息。截至本季末，我們的現金餘額約為 5.36 億美元，淨債務約為 9.21 億美元。保持穩固的財務基礎和強勁的資產負債表仍然是我們的首要任務。我們為營運提供資金和持續投資資產的能力始終至關重要。

We entered last year with the strongest balance sheet we have ever had. Our underlevered balance sheet enabled us to increase net debt during the weak market conditions of 2024. As the market rebalances off the 2024 lows, we expect to use periods of strength to focus on delevering and preserving the balance sheet. After prioritizing our balance sheet and operations, we'll look at all capital allocation opportunities to determine which promotes the greatest long-term value.

去年，我們的資產負債表是史上最強勁的。我們的低槓桿資產負債表使我們能夠在 2024 年疲軟的市場條件下增加淨負債。隨著市場從 2024 年的低點恢復平衡，我們預計將利用強勁時期專注於去槓桿和維護資產負債表。在對我們的資產負債表和營運進行優先排序之後，我們將研究所有的資本配置機會，以確定哪些能帶來最大的長期價值。

Operator, we've completed our opening remarks, and we'd be pleased to take questions.

接線員，我們的開場白已經結束，我們很樂意回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Roger Read, Wells Fargo.

（操作員指示）富國銀行的羅傑·里德 (Roger Read)。

Hey, good morning, everybody. I don't think I changed my name, but I'll roll with it here (multiple speakers). Anyway, quick question for you on -- just focusing on Martinez here.

嘿，大家早安。我不認為我改了名字，但我會繼續用這個名字（多位發言者）。無論如何，我要問您一個快速問題——這裡只關注馬丁內斯。

Recognizing regulatory environment in California is what it is. What's the timeline do you believe that we will get greater clarity on what the damage is, what it will take to fix it, and when you'll be allowed to do the work? What's kind of a broad guideline we should consider here?

了解加州的監管環境就是這樣的。您認為什麼時候我們才能更清楚地了解損壞程度、需要採取什麼措施來修復以及何時可以開始進行這項工作？我們在這裡應該考慮什麼樣的廣泛指導方針？

Thanks. Thanks, Mr. Read. Look, the reality is the sort of ground zero where the ignition took place, that's actually still cordoned off. We expected, quite frankly, to have access to it already, but we don't. So again, I'm getting dangerously close to speculating. I suspect that we will get access to that area shortly.

謝謝。謝謝，里德先生。你看，事實是，發生點火事件的爆心地點實際上仍然被封鎖著。坦白說，我們原本期望能夠使用它，但事實並非如此。因此，我再次危險地接近猜測。我估計我們很快就會進入該地區。

And as I said in my comments, we absolutely have to work collaboratively with all the different stakeholders as we look at and investigate what happened. And so once we get full access to the site -- and we have to appreciate we were commencing a turnaround. And obviously, now there's damage from the fire. So there's a multi-pronged effort to assess sort of moving forward.

正如我在評論中所說，我們在調查所發生的事情時絕對必須與所有不同的利害關係人進行合作。因此，一旦我們完全獲得該網站的訪問權限——我們就必須意識到，我們正在開始扭轉局面。顯然，現在火災造成了損失。因此，需要多管齊下的努力來評估未來的進展。

But I suspect we'll be getting access to that cordoned off area very soon. And then we already have teams, as I said, on the ground doing the work they can do now. But we should be able to, over the next short period of time, have a much better assessment.

但我想我們很快就會進入那個封鎖區。正如我所說，我們已經有團隊在現場進行他們現在可以做的工作。但在接下來的短時間內，我們應該能夠做出更好的評估。

It just so happens this call coincided at a moment in time that was in front of that. But over the next week or so, I think we'll have a much better view. And all I can promise to you and to our shareholders, communicate openly as we -- and transparently, as we learn things going forward.

碰巧的是，這個電話恰好發生在那之前的某個時刻。但在接下來的一周左右，我想我們將會看到更美好的景象。我能向你們和我們的股東承諾的是，隨著我們了解情況的進展，我們會保持公開透明的溝通。

Understood. Yeah. Timing is everything, right? The second part or the second question I have also ties in with this. Really, it is premature to know exactly how long it's down and what the costs are.

明白了。是的。時機就是一切，對吧？我的第二部分或第二個問題也與此相關。確實，現在確切知道停工時間有多長以及損失有多少還為時過早。

If we look at Q4 results, which consumes some cash, Q1, which -- let's just say it's neutral or a little bit of a negative impact based on where things are tracking so far -- what are some of the levers you can pull on in 2025 to ensure that the company is in a sufficient position liquidity-wise to operate with one of the units down to do whatever repairs are necessary? Are the deferrals of CapEx?

如果我們看一下第四季度的業績，這會消耗一些現金，而第一季度的業績——根據目前的情況，我們只能說是中性的，或者有一點負面影響——您可以在 2025 年利用哪些槓桿來確保公司在流動性方面有足夠的能力，可以在其中一個部門停工進行必要的維修的情況下繼續運營？資本支出是否被延後？

I'll leave some of the bigger kind of topics out there for you to answer, rather putting words in your mouth. But what should be watching? Maybe that's more a question for you, Karen. I'm not really sure. But just with the uncertainty, how should we think about what you'll do from a cash position standpoint?

我會把一些較大的話題留給你們自己去回答，而不是把話塞到你們嘴裡。但該關注什麼呢？也許這更適合你，凱倫。我不太確定。但是，面對不確定性，從現金狀況的角度，我們該如何考慮您會怎麼做？

I'll make a couple comments and turn over to Karen. In regards to our financial strength, Karen, I think, mentioned in her remarks that we started '24 with the strongest financial position in our history. I would say we started 2024 with the strongest financial position in our industry, even where we sit today after a difficult '24 market conditions.

我將發表幾點評論，然後交給凱倫 (Karen)。關於我們的財務實力，我認為卡倫在她的評論中提到，我們以歷史上最強勁的財務狀況開啟了2024年。我想說，儘管經歷了 24 年艱難的市場環境，但我們在 2024 年伊始的財務狀況是業界最強勁的。

If you go back to when we became a public company, we had the intent of coming out with a conservative balance sheet. Our balance sheet today -- even though our company is more than twice the size and we own all the inventory, our company today, on any debt metric, is well below where we originally designed when we became public. And when you look at 2024, we were able to navigate the year without impacting CapEx because we felt like that was the right thing to do.

如果回顧我們成為上市公司的時候，我們曾打算發布一份保守的資產負債表。我們今天的資產負債表——儘管我們的公司規模是原來的兩倍多，並且我們擁有所有的庫存，但按照任何債務指標來衡量，我們公司今天的資產負債表都遠低於我們上市時最初設計的水平。展望 2024 年，我們能夠在不影響資本支出的情況下度過這一年，因為我們覺得這是正確的做法。

Everything is predicated on your view of the market. You're not always right, but you're always evolving that view. And so we'll always take that view in combination with the financial strength we have and operate our business investment with who we can. So in '24, we didn't defer any spending. We invested in our plans as we should, and indeed, 2025 looks constructive.

一切都取決於您對市場的看法。你並不總是對的，但你總是在發展這種觀點。因此，我們將始終堅持這一觀點，結合我們現有的財務實力，與我們力所能及的人一起開展業務投資。因此在24年，我們沒有延後任何支出。我們對我們的計劃進行了必要的投資，事實上，2025年看起來是有建設性的。

The downtime at Martinez -- we were scheduled to be down for 60 days for a major turnaround at Torrance. This will impact that schedule. But our ability to generate cash as a company will not hinder on Martinez in isolation. So we're in a really strong financial position. Our outlook is positive.

馬丁內斯的停工期——我們原計劃停工 60 天，以便在托倫斯進行重大檢修。這將影響該計劃。但我們作為一家公司創造現金的能力不會阻礙馬丁內斯的孤立。所以我們的財務狀況非常強勁。我們的前景是樂觀的。

But we always have the capability to the degree our outlook changes or the market changes to manage our business and the capital and the work that we do on our facilities in conjunction with the market that exists. Karen, I don't know if you have any other --?

但我們始終有能力根據前景或市場變化的程度，結合現有市場來管理我們的業務、資本以及我們在設施上所做的工作。Karen，我不知道你還有什麼其他的--？

Well, I just would add, obviously, over the past few quarters you've seen us rely on our underlevered balance sheet to support both operations and share repurchases. At the end of the fourth quarter, we were at a 16% net debt-to-cap ratio.

好吧，我只是想補充一點，顯然，在過去幾個季度中，您已經看到我們依靠低槓桿的資產負債表來支持營運和股票回購。截至第四季末，我們的淨負債與資本比率為 16%。

We've got $2.4 billion available under our ABL as well as the other triggers that Matt mentioned. Going forward, as the market normalizes and we see improved cash generation, we're going to refocus again on reducing leverage as a top priority over share repurchase.

我們的 ABL 以及 Matt 提到的其他觸發因素下有 24 億美元可用資金。展望未來，隨著市場正常化以及現金創造能力的提高，我們將再次把降低槓桿率作為股票回購的首要任務。

It is a core tenet of how we're running this business. And that is when markets are strong and we're generating cash, we intend to underlever ourselves. And that gives us the flexibility and the luxury of managing the business without being hindered by financial constraints when markets are more difficult.

這是我們經營這項業務的核心原則。當市場強勁、我們產生現金時，我們打算降低自己的槓桿率。這給予我們靈活性和管理業務的便利，當市場變得更加困難時，不會受到財務限制的阻礙。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Roger.

謝謝，羅傑。

Ryan Todd, Piper Sandler.

瑞恩·托德，派珀·桑德勒。

Thanks. Maybe a follow-up -- one follow-up on Martinez. You mentioned the insurance that you have that should offset some of the impact. Can you maybe help us walk through how the insurance offset works? What sort of the impact it might offset, or is it too early to say at this point?

謝謝。也許是後續行動——對馬丁內斯的後續行動。您提到您擁有的保險應該可以抵消部分影響。您能幫我們解釋一下保險抵銷是如何運作的嗎？它可能會抵消什麼樣的影響，或者現在說還為時過早？

And then as a second question, on renewable diesel, if we switch gears over there. Can you maybe provide an update? There's a lot of moving pieces here in the early part of 2025. Maybe an update on your view of the market and how you might approach -- how you think you might approach 45Z credits in the first quarter, if you think you'll be able to book or not book any of those dynamics? Thanks.

然後第二個問題是關於再生柴油，如果我們換個話題。能提供最新消息嗎？2025 年初這裡有許多變動因素。或許您可以更新對市場的看法，以及您可能會如何處理——您認為您可能會如何處理第一季的 45Z 積分，如果您認為您能夠預訂或不預訂任何這些動態？謝謝。

Sure. So in regards to insurance, I'm not going to get into absolute specifics of it. But as a company, we've been procuring property insurance. So as we begin, it's a proper risk management tool. We have a very good relationship with insurance providers, with the insurance community. And we've worked very closely with them every year.

當然。因此，關於保險，我不會深入討論其具體細節。但作為一家公司，我們一直在購買財產保險。因此，首先，它是一個合適的風險管理工具。我們與保險提供者和保險界都保持著良好的關係。我們每年都與他們密切合作。

And so all I can tell you is we absolutely have the proper coverages with the proper providers. And we'll be working with them as we assess what happens, and it's too early to speculate on that. So I feel very, very comfortable and pleased. Insurance is a funny thing. You hate paying for it when you don't need it, and you hate the fact that you need it. But you're happy that's there in a time like this.

因此，我能告訴你們的是，我們絕對有適當的保障，有適當的供應商。我們將與他們合作，評估事態發展，現在猜測還為時過早。因此我感到非常非常舒服和高興。保險是一件有趣的事。你討厭在不需要它的時候為它付錢，你也討厭在需要它的時候為它付錢。但在這樣的時刻，你會很高興有這個。

So in regards to R&D, nothing is static, obviously. I think the developments over '25 are getting incredibly interesting to watch. The biodiesel guys have a lot of headwinds. We got less imports into the country. The 45Zs can be below by all indications, although that was the previous administration's guidance. So there's no guarantees.

因此，就研發而言，顯然沒有什麼是一成不變的。我認為 25 年的發展將會變得非常有趣。生物柴油產業面臨諸多阻力。我們國家的進口量減少了。儘管這是上一屆政府的指導方針，但從種種跡象來看，45Z 的價格可能低於預期。所以沒有任何保證。

But I would think the 45Z -- economics from the 45Z will probably be less than the [blenders'] tax credit. And over time, my guess is the RIN will sort of set the market for how much RD needs to be manufactured. But I come back to -- and I can't bring up RD without bringing up our partner.

但我認為 45Z 的經濟效益可能低於（攪拌機的）稅收抵免。隨著時間的推移，我猜測 RIN 將在某種程度上決定市場需要製造多少 RD。但我回到——如果不提及我們的合作夥伴，我就不能提起 RD。

We've been in lockstep with them, similar outlook on the marketplace, similar commitment to our SBR venture. So we're very pleased with the partnership we have. I think as we look at the marketplace, our ability to pretreat feeds, our location in the Gulf Coast, I think we're well positioned to be a top-quartile performer in the marketplace as it evolves.

我們與他們步調一致，對市場有相似的展望，對我們的 SBR 合資企業有相似的承諾。我們對現有的合作關係感到非常滿意。我認為，當我們審視市場、我們預處理飼料的能力以及我們在墨西哥灣沿岸的位置時，我認為隨著市場的發展，我們有能力成為市場中表現最好的公司之一。

In regards to accounting for unclear 45Z or producer tax credit language, we're going to use the language that we have at the time that we create -- we publish our books and records. Karen, I don't know if you have --

關於對不明確的 45Z 或生產者稅收抵免語言的核算，我們將使用我們創建時所擁有的語言——我們出版我們的書籍和記錄。Karen，我不知道你有沒有--

No, that's right. Similar to what some of our peers have announced, we will -- we do expect to accrue the credit based on the guidelines that are available right now.

不，沒錯。與我們的一些同行所宣布的類似，我們確實希望根據目前可用的指導方針累積信貸。

Great, thank you.

太好了，謝謝。

Manav Gupta, UBS.

瑞銀的 Manav Gupta。

Good morning. More of a theoretical question. But let's say we do go down the line of peace between Ukraine and Russia, it will have multiple impacts for refiners. Obviously, more product can come in.

早安.更多是一個理論問題。但假設烏克蘭和俄羅斯之間確實達成和平協議，這將對煉油商產生多重影響。顯然，可以輸入更多產品。

But what can also happen is more -- heavier crudes come to the market; VGO comes to the market. Do you think in that scenario, if we do have a complete peace between Ukraine and Russia, you could see a wider quality discounts, heavy-light widening, which could help PBF out?

但也可能發生更多的情況—更重的原油進入市場； VGO進入市場。您是否認為，在這種情況下，如果烏克蘭和俄羅斯之間確實實現了完全和平，是否會看到更大的品質折扣、重輕差距擴大，這對 PBF 有所幫助？

I do, but I have to ask Thomas --

我知道，但我得問問湯瑪斯--

Yeah, thanks, Manav. With regards to the question, I mean, I think it's probably, really, what are the terms of the peace. But broadly speaking, in the way that you presented it in terms of peace at that point, certainly should be a catalyst for a wider light-heavy differential, I think, particularly also in the Atlantic Basin just because the Pacific Basin has been the primary beneficiary of Russian crude over the last several years.

是的，謝謝，Manav。關於這個問題，我的意思是，我認為很可能是，和平的條款到底是什麼。但從廣義上講，按照你當時所提出的和平方式，我認為，這肯定會成為擴大輕重原油差異的催化劑，尤其是在大西洋盆地，因為太平洋盆地是過去幾年俄羅斯原油的主要受益者。

But I think we really need to watch that as that plays out. I mean, clearly, there's a lot of factors in the market today. I think in terms of some aspects of the things that we see that for every policy action, there's a countermeasure or another reaction and some other things as we've gone through the sequencing. But in a vacuum, that coming to some resolution certainly would be a positive catalyst for wider light-heavy.

但我認為我們確實需要觀察事態的發展。我的意思是，顯然，今天的市場有很多因素。我認為就我們所看到的某些方面而言，對於每一項政策行動，都有一個對策或其他反應，還有一些其他的事情，我們已經對其進行了排序。但在真空中，達成某種解決方案無疑將成為更廣泛的輕重緩急的積極催化劑。

Perfect. My quick follow-up which I wanted to ask you was, when you did buy Martinez, one of the thought processes was if one of the assets on the West Coast does go down, you want a couple of assets there to benefit from it. In this scenario, when Martinez is down, can you run Torrance hard at nameplate capacity or maybe even over to actually benefit from a spike in the West Coast margins?

完美的。我想問您的一個快速後續問題是，當您購買馬​​丁內斯時，其中一個想法是，如果西海岸的一項資產確實下跌，您會希望那裡的幾項資產從中受益。在這種情況下，當馬丁內斯工廠停產時，您是否可以讓托倫斯工廠以額定產能全力運轉，甚至超負荷運轉，從而真正從西海岸利潤率的飆升中獲益？

Torrance refinery is running, and we'll maximize as we do at all of our facilities to the market that exists. So as I said, Torrance is there and is producing products which are desperately needed in California.

托倫斯煉油廠正在運營，我們將盡可能地利用我們所有的設施來滿足現有的市場需求。正如我所說，托倫斯在那裡生產加州急需的產品。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Neil Mehta, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的尼爾梅塔 (Neil Mehta)。

Yeah. Staying on the macro, obviously, a very dynamic environment around tariffs. And you guys do import some barrels, including Syncrude from Canada but also some waterborne barrels. So just your perspective of how this potentially could ripple through the system? And any framework that you're using to evaluate a very dynamic situation?

是的。從宏觀角度來看，顯然關稅環境非常動態。你們確實進口了一些桶，包括來自加拿大的 Syncrude 桶，也包括一些水運桶。那麼，您認為這可能會對整個系統產生怎樣的影響？您使用什麼框架來評估非常動態的情況？

Dynamic it is. I'll ask Tom to comment as well. But the Canadian and Mexican tariffs seem to be different than some of the other tariffs that are being imposed in that it does seem to be a cudgel to broader geopolitical issues, whether it's immigration or fentanyl or other things.

它是動態的。我也會請湯姆發表評論。但加拿大和墨西哥的關稅似乎與其他一些正在徵收的關稅不同，它似乎針對的是更廣泛的地緣政治問題，無論是移民問題、芬太尼問題還是其他問題。

And so the duration of those tariffs may be different. It does seem to be sort of isolated into a person of one of how these decisions are being made. But he's clearly getting advice. Because even when these -- the tariffs were threatened before, there was a recognition, obviously, that oil was getting a different mark than the rest of the imports from Canada.

因此這些關稅的持續時間可能會有所不同。這似乎在某種程度上是與做出這些決定的人無關的。但他顯然正在尋求建議。因為即使在先前威脅要徵收關稅時，人們顯然也認識到，石油與從加拿大進口的其他產品受到的待遇不同。

Canada and Mexico are a bit different. I'd sort of chuckled to myself. Canada is more of a Mexican standoff because their alternatives are much less in terms of -- if they don't sell it to the US, it's going to stay in the ground. Mexico obviously has more flexibility with -- with having access to water. That being said, the mid-con needs Canadian refineries and Canadian oil to maintain throughput.

加拿大和墨西哥有點不一樣。我心裡暗笑。加拿大更像是墨西哥僵局，因為他們的選擇很少——如果他們不把原油賣給美國，原油就會留在地下。墨西哥在獲取水資源方面顯然擁有更大的靈活性。話雖如此，中型企業需要加拿大煉油廠和加拿大石油來維持產量。

And so anytime that there's going to be disruption of that size, if it happens, it will have some impact on throughput, I'm sure. I do think it's important to note, certainly on the Canadian side, the movement, the respective dollars. So if you're a Canadian producer, what is the net difference if you're looking at it sort of on a post-currency trade.

因此，任何時候，如果發生這種規模的中斷，我確信它會對吞吐量產生一定的影響。我確實認為有必要注意，尤其是加拿大方面的動向以及相應的美元匯率。因此，如果你是加拿大生產商，如果你從後貨幣交易的角度來看，淨差異是什麼。

But it will be an interesting dynamic. Tariffs are being threatened and initiated on a daily basis on that Monday when the Canadian and Mexican tariffs were supposed to be implemented and then postponed. We went in a six-hour period where, obviously, there was going to be a bullish TI event by imposing tariffs on Canada and Mexico.

但這將會是一個有趣的動態。加拿大和墨西哥的關稅原本應該在星期一實施，但後來被推遲，而就在那個星期一，每天都有關稅威脅和啟動。我們進行了為期六小時的會談，顯然，透過對加拿大和墨西哥徵收關稅，TI 將迎來一場利好的事件。

And six hours later, that was off the table. But the Chinese were putting tariffs on US crude, which was bearish. So there's nothing static for even a moment, but we've got the perfect team. I'll hand it over to Tom sort of -- on every aspect of this.

六個小時後，這個計畫就不再實施了。但中國對美國原油徵收關稅，這是利空的。因此，一刻也沒有靜止的情況，我們擁有一支完美的團隊。我會把這件事情的各個方面交給湯姆。

Yeah. In terms of -- Matt gave a very wholesome response there. I mean, I think in terms of -- I think that market reaction, which we saw on that Monday, I think, is very a key indicator as to how the market would respond in terms of -- TI was outperforming the waterborne crudes, certainly had a strong crack response in terms of products on the -- particularly on the observable markets that are just staring at screens, right? You had outperformance in NYMEX.

是的。就這一點而言——馬特給了非常全面的答案。我的意思是，我認為就——我認為我們在周一看到的市場反應，是一個非常關鍵的指標，可以表明市場將如何反應——德州儀器 (TI) 的表現優於水運原油，在產品方面肯定有強勁的裂解反應——特別是在那些只盯著屏幕的可觀察市場上，對吧？您在紐約商品交易所 (NYMEX) 的表現非常出色。

The cash markets in certain areas didn't have time to sort of respond as people were sort of just waiting in terms of figuring out for a little bit more certainty. But I think it does get to the point where -- when you look at the market today, I do think that the likelihood of tariffs, the market is saying they're not there. I mean, you have TI spreads are basically on six-month lows.

某些地區的現金市場沒有時間做出反應，因為人們只是在等待獲得更多的確定性。但我認為事情確實到了這樣的地步——當你看看今天的市場時，我確實認為徵收關稅的可能性不大，但市場表明不存在這種可能性。我的意思是，TI 利差基本上處於六個月的低點。

And that is a reflection of the fundamentals and a seasonal reality of the marketplace that we are in today, right? I mean, you're in the maintenance period, you've got low runs. And you're sitting in a situation where crude is building coming off of basically the low of the five-year and is now moving closer towards the five-year, but still has some work to do.

這反映了我們當今市場的基本面和季節性現實，對嗎？我的意思是，你正處於維護期，運行次數較少。目前的情況是，原油價格基本上從五年低點回升，目前正接近五年高點，但仍有一些工作要做。

And products have been drawn. I mean -- so I mean, if we get back specifically to the effects of the tariffs, I think in terms of -- I don't really have anything else to add in terms of Matt's response to this.

並且產品已經繪製完成。我的意思是——如果我們具體回到關稅的影響問題上，我認為——對於馬特對此的回應，我真的沒有什麼可以補充的。

The only thing else I would add is, as I look at it, I don't see PBF being disadvantaged relative to the rest of industry in the US in any way, shape, or form.

我唯一想補充的是，在我看來，我不認為 PBF 在任何方面相對於美國其他行業處於不利地位。

That's great. And the follow-up is -- maybe this is for you, Matt, maybe for Karen. But you pointed to net debt to cap kind of at the 16% range. And therefore, the priority, even though that's pretty good balance sheet, is to get -- is to delever a bit before you return capital to shareholders in the form of buybacks.

那太棒了。接下來的問題是——也許這是給你的，馬特，也許這是給卡倫的。但您指出淨債務上限在 16% 左右。因此，儘管資產負債表相當不錯，但當務之急是在以回購的形式向股東返還資本之前稍微去槓桿。

What's the framework? Is that decision point of, sort of, leverage level either on that metric or net debt to EBITDA that we should be looking for when you say you want to flip from deleveraging back to buybacks?

框架是啥？當您說要從去槓桿轉向回購時，我們應該尋找的決策點是槓桿水平，還是基於該指標或淨債務與 EBITDA 比率？

I think it would be impossible for us to give you one metric. I think it's a combination of the current market we're in, the outlook going forward in the short term to medium term, what -- how our assets are running.

我認為我們不可能給你一個指標。我認為這是我們目前所處的市場、短期到中期前景以及我們的資產運作等多種因素的綜合作用。

You have a lot of sort of different equations in a bowl of soup. But what we intend to do is set up our company as best we can for our investors. That includes a really, really strong balance sheet, and it also includes returning cash to shareholders. And we'll balance that to the best of our ability.

一碗湯裡有很多不同的等式。但我們打算做的是盡力為我們的投資者建立我們的公司。這包括一份非常非常強勁的資產負債表，也包括向股東返還現金。我們將盡力平衡這一點。

Is there a target through the cycle net debt number, maybe other way of asking it?

是否有一個透過週期淨債務數字設定的目標，也許還有其他的詢問方式？

I would say -- maybe I'll answer the question with what we could see as the maximum. And that would be our goal has always been to maintain investment-grade level credit metrics, which we think could be as high as less than 35%. Currently, we're at 16%. It's our goal to be very conservative.

我想說——也許我會用我們所能看到的最大值來回答這個問題。我們的目標一直是維持投資等級信用指標，我們認為這一水準可能高達 35% 以下。目前，這一比例為 16%。我們的目標是非常保守。

Thanks, Karen. Thanks, Matt.

謝謝，凱倫。謝謝，馬特。

Thank you.

謝謝。

John Royall, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的約翰‧羅亞爾 (John Royall)。

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. So my first question is on 4Q cash flows. We noticed cash from ops, even ex-working capital, came in a little late relative to earnings. It looks like there's $100 million-plus of deferred tax headwinds as one of the drivers. I was just hoping for some color on the deferred tax and any other major items to call out 4Q (technical difficulty)?

嗨，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於第四季的現金流。我們注意到，來自營運的現金，甚至是營運資本，相對於收益來說來得稍微晚了一些。看起來，超過 1 億美元的遞延稅項逆風是其中一個驅動因素。我只是希望對遞延稅項和其他主要項目進行一些詳細說明，以便在第四季度（技術難度）時能夠看到這一點？

Yeah. I think you hit on one of the drivers. The other one was just -- and overall -- and this is the main one -- is an overall decline in our net payables related to inventory. Looking forward into Q1, working capital is going to be driven primarily by hydrocarbon pricing. But I would also point out that we did make a TRA payment of $130 million in January, which will provide a headwind.

是的。我覺得你擊中了其中一​​名司機。另一個是——總體而言——這是主要原因——與庫存相關的淨應付款項整體下降。展望第一季度，營運資本將主要受碳氫化合物定價的影響。但我還要指出的是，我們確實在一月支付了1.3億美元的TRA費用，這將帶來阻力。

Great. Thank you, Karen. And then my follow-up is on the business improvement plan. You gave a little bit of color in the opener and mentioned the key piece being around energy usage and turnaround.

偉大的。謝謝你，凱倫。然後我的後續工作是業務改進計劃。您在開場白中給出了一些背景信息，並提到關鍵部分是能源使用和周轉。

And I think next quarter, maybe some more detail. But how do you expect the $200 million to phase in this year? How should we think about kind of first half versus second half? And does the outage of Martinez impact the plan in any way?

我認為下個季度可能會有更多細節。但您預計這 2 億美元將如何在今年分階段到位？我們該如何看待上半場和下半場？馬丁內斯的停電是否會對該計劃產生任何影響？

I'll make a couple of comments and then turn it over to Mike. In regards to the $200 million, what we said last quarter and what the $200 million is pointing to, it's run rate savings as of January 1, 2026. So we're going through each of our refineries, each of our processes that support our refineries, and coming up with cost-saving initiatives, plans, and beginning to execute those savings.

我會發表幾點評論，然後將其交給麥克。關於 2 億美元，我們上個季度說過，2 億美元指的是截至 2026 年 1 月 1 日的運行率節省。因此，我們正在檢查每個煉油廠、支援煉油廠的每個流程，並提出節省成本的措施和計劃，並開始執行這些節約措施。

What we -- the pledge that we made was, as of the beginning of next year, we will fully implement it. So over the course of '25, there will be some savings. But the savings will not be fully achieved in 2025. And no, I don't believe that the events at Martinez will impact this initiative at all.

我們所做的承諾是，從明年年初開始，我們將全面實施它。因此，在 25 年期間，會有一些節省。但到2025年還無法完全實現節約。不，我不認為馬丁內斯事件會對這項倡議產生任何影響。

Yeah, well said, Matt. I think as we develop the detailed implementation plans prior to the end of the first quarter, we'll have a really good line of sight to how much exactly we're going to hit in 2025. But we will be adjusting every time we do an initiative and we account for the run rate savings.

是的，說得好，馬特。我認為，隨著我們在第一季結束前製定詳細的實施計劃，我們將能夠很好地了解 2025 年的具體目標。但每次我們實施一項措施時，我們都會進行調整，並計算運行率節省。

We will be adjusting our budget targets for 2026. So that those savings remain sustainable, when we put new operating KPIs as well as the financial KPIs, but operating KPIs associated with all those cost savings initiatives that we keep our eye on the ball. And those things will continue to be realized throughout 2026 and beyond.

我們將調整 2026 年的預算目標。為了使這些節約保持可持續，我們制定了新的營運 KPI 以及財務 KPI，但營運 KPI 與所有這些成本節約舉措相關，我們會密切關注。這些事情將在 2026 年及以後繼續實現。

Very clear. Thank you.

非常清楚。謝謝。

Jason Gabelman, TD Cowen.

傑森·加貝爾曼（Jason Gabelman），TD Cowen。

Yeah, hey, morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to go back to the Martinez incident, if I could. And it's not completely clear. Is the entire facility shut down right now, or is it just a unit that shut down?

是啊，嘿，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。如果可以的話，我想回顧一下馬丁內斯事件。但目前還不完全清楚。現在整個設施都關閉了嗎，還是只有某個單位關閉？

Can you give us any more color as to what unit was impacted? And as you think about your contractual obligations, do you need to source product from third parties in order to meet those while the asset's down? Thanks.

您能否告訴我們哪些單位受到了影響？當您考慮您的合約義務時，您是否需要從第三方購買產品以便在資產下降時滿足這些義務？謝謝。

All right. So specifically in regards to the units, we were in the midst of commencing what I refer to as potentially a 60-day cat turnaround. The cat feed hydrotreater was shut down in front of that, and pipe work was being done. So it's in the vicinity of the cat feed hydrotreater.

好的。因此，具體到單位而言，我們正處於開始我所說的可能為 60 天的貓週轉期的過程中。前面的催化進料加氫處理器關閉，正在進行管道工程。它位於催化飼料加氫處理器附近。

A result of the fire, we did take down the entire refinery. So the refinery is down completely now. And so you have multiple work streams. You have the turnaround work and then assessing the fire and then what it will take to get other units back on stream, all three on their own schedule.

火災的結果是，我們確實拆除了整個煉油廠。因此，煉油廠現在已完全停工。因此您有多個工作流程。你需要進行週轉工作，然後評估火情，然後如何讓其他單位恢復運行，所有三個單位都按照自己的時間表進行。

Got it. And in terms of commitments with customers and needing to source products from (multiple speakers) --

知道了。就對客戶的承諾以及需要從（多位發言者）——

Yeah, sorry. Yes. From a commercial standpoint, we don't have anything to report. We'll be able to manage through all the commercial necessities with our team. And there's nothing to highlight at this point.

是的，抱歉。是的。從商業角度來看，我們沒有什麼好報告的。我們的團隊將能夠處理所有商業必需品。目前還沒有什麼值得強調的。

Okay. Got it. And then just a quick accounting one. I noticed in your full-year '25 guidance that January 1 share count was actually up versus 4Q. I think it was guided to 121 million versus 115 million in 4Q. Was that just related to incentive comp, or was there something else that drove that? Thanks.

好的。知道了。然後只是進行快速的會計工作。我注意到，在您的 25 年全年指引中，1 月 1 日的股票數量實際上比第四季度增加。我認為預期數字將達到 1.21 億，而第四季的數字是 1.15 億。這僅僅與激勵補償有關嗎，還是有其他因素推動了這項改變？謝謝。

I think that's going to be related to dilution -- potential dilution from incentive comp.

我認為這與稀釋有關——激勵補償的潛在稀釋。

Okay, great. Thanks for the answers.

好的，太好了。謝謝您的回答。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Matthew Blair, TPH.

馬修·布萊爾，TPH。

Great. Thank you. I want to circle back to the RBI program. So the $200 million of run rate cost savings, I think that comes out to about $0.60 a barrel. Could you talk about how we can measure that? Does that all come through refining OpEx, or would it also come through corporate G&A?

偉大的。謝謝。我想重新回到 RBI 計劃上。因此，2 億美元的運行成本節省，我認為相當於每桶約 0.60 美元。您能談談我們如何衡量這一點嗎？這一切都是透過精煉營運支出 (OpEx) 來實現的嗎，還是也透過企業一般及行政費用 (G&A) 來實現的？

And then just looking at your published OpEx in 2024 versus like 2018, 2019 levels, it's about $2 a barrel higher. So is this $0.60 should be thought of as a pretty conservative figure, and there might be more wood to chop after that? Thanks.

然後，只要看看您公佈的 2024 年營運支出，與 2018 年、2019 年的水平相比，就會發現它每桶高出約 2 美元。那麼，這個 0.60 美元是否應該被視為一個相當保守的數字，之後可能還會有更多的木材需要砍伐？謝謝。

So first of all, in terms of the accounting, most of it -- it's going to come through refining OpEx, but the capital, projects, and the turnaround will come to our capital program. I would think about it that way. On the $0.60 per barrel versus previous years, I would consider this a start. We think that there's more opportunity beyond 2025.

因此，首先，從會計角度來看，大部分收入將透過改善營運支出 (OpEx) 來實現，但資本、項目和周轉收入將進入我們的資本計畫。我會這麼想。與前幾年相比，價格上漲了 0.60 美元/桶，我認為這是一個開始。我們認為 2025 年以後還會有更多機會。

This is a program which is not going to end. This is going to be a new way of life for us in terms of driving continuous improvement, not only in how we manage cost, but how we innovate to drive efficiency. And we will let that spill over to all the things that we do in terms of managing our business, including how we manage our reliability, how we manage our health and safety as well. So I would look at the $0.60 per barrel as the first step of a long journey.

這是一個不會結束的計劃。就推動持續改善而言，這將成為我們新的生活方式，不僅體現在我們如何管理成本，也體現在我們如何透過創新來提高效率。我們將把它滲透到我們管理業務的所有方面，包括如何管理我們的可靠性，如何管理我們的健康和安全。因此，我認為每桶 0.60 美元是漫長旅程的第一步。

What Mike just said is my expectation. Our internal expectations are higher than what we promised the Street. But as a management team, we certainly are focused on meaning what we say and say what we mean in regards to we're going to not overpromise and deliver results as we communicate them.

Mike 剛才說的是我的期望。我們內部的期望比我們向華爾街承諾的還要高。但作為管理團隊，我們當然注重言出必行，我們不會過度承諾，並在溝通時交付成果。

So the other thing I would say that this program is very, very focused on. If you go back to the depth of COVID, at that time, we announced cost savings to the tune of -- and we achieved cost savings to the tune of about $140 million.

我想說的另一件事是該計劃非常非常受關注。如果回顧 COVID 最嚴重的時候，當時我們宣布了成本節約——我們實現了約 1.4 億美元的成本節約。

Much of that eventually came back through the different cycles that we existed in. We're very, very focused on the sustainability of these cost savings on a go-forward basis. So not that it's cut once; but it's cut once, and it doesn't return.

其中大部分最終都會透過我們所處的不同周期而回歸。我們非常非常注重這些成本節約在未來的永續性。所以並不是說它被剪了一次；但一旦被切斷，它就不會再回來。

Sounds good. And then you also mentioned that refining capacity additions should match up pretty well with incremental demand growth this year. I think there's also a comment that the forward cracks look constructive. Do you think at the strip that PBF will be free cash flow positive this year?

聽起來不錯。然後您也提到，今年煉油產能的增加應該與需求的增量相當匹配。我認為還有一條評論說，前向裂縫看起來具有建設性。您認為 PBF 今年的自由現金流將為正值嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Great. I'll leave it there. Thanks.

偉大的。我就把它留在那裡。謝謝。

Paul Cheng, Scotiabank.

加拿大豐業銀行的 Paul Cheng。

Hey, guys. Good morning.

嘿，大家好。早安.

Good morning.

早安.

Matt, when I'm looking at your first-quarter throughput guidance, East Coast seems like it's low, given that you only have the hydrocracker turnaround there, which is a pretty small unit. Is there anything we should be aware why that the guidance is relatively low and how that impact on your full-year expectation for that region?

馬特，當我查看你們第一季的產量指引時，我發現東海岸的產量似乎較低，因為你們那裡只有加氫裂解裝置的周轉裝置，而這是一個相當小的裝置。我們是否應該知道為什麼指導值相對較低以及這對您對該地區的全年預期有何影響？

That's the first question. Second question that -- somewhat related to tariff. But I'm not going to ask that what you think about the tariff. But instead, for Toledo, you run a lot of the same crew. If you replace Syncrude with domestic light oil, how does that impact your refinery yield, throughput, and OpEx? Just trying to get some better understanding on that. Thank you.

這是第一個問題。第二個問題與關稅有些相關。但我不會問你對關稅的看法。但對托萊多來說，你管理的團隊大多是同一批人。如果您用國產輕油取代 Syncrude，這會對您的煉油廠產量、產能和營運成本產生什麼影響？只是想更好地理解這一點。謝謝。

Yeah. Okay. So your first question was in regard to East Coast throughput. I think the throughput, that is down is a bit on the back of the market that has existed. And so obviously, we throttle throughput based on the market in which we're operating.

是的。好的。所以您的第一個問題是關於東海岸的吞吐量。我認為吞吐量的下降與現有的市場有些關聯。顯然，我們會根據我們營運所在的市場來限制吞吐量。

And when it's a weaker market, throughput can come down. So there's certainly nothing structural or nothing from a work standpoint that's precluding us. And if the market is there, we'll certainly capture as much of it as we possibly can.

當市場疲軟時，吞吐量就會下降。所以，從結構或從工作角度來說，肯定不存在任何阻礙我們前進的東西。如果有市場，我們肯定會盡可能佔領市場。

In regards to Toledo, there is some element -- I refer to it as a Mexican standoff before -- in terms of our -- we do not have the ability, nor does anyone in the region have the ability to simply replace all Canadian barrels by domestic supplies. The pipeline capacity isn't there, and their pipelines have been reversed.

關於托萊多，存在一些因素——我之前稱之為墨西哥僵局——就我們而言——我們沒有能力，該地區也沒有任何人有能力簡單地用國內供應取代所有加拿大石油。管道容量不足，而且他們的管道已經被逆轉了。

And so there is some element of -- tariffs could push down throughputs. Or ultimately, the producer is going to pay or the -- and consumers are going to pay. But to the degree there's not a market for the refiners to run, we're not in the business of manufacturing fuel that is uneconomic to run.

因此，關稅可能會在一定程度上降低吞吐量。或者最終，生產者將付錢，或者消費者將付錢。但就煉油商沒有市場可經營的程度而言，我們不會從事生產不經濟的燃料的業務。

So -- but like I said, it's an incredibly dynamic situation. And if there is tariffs put in, the market will balance itself to produce the products that are needed in all the regions.

所以 — — 但就像我說的，這是一個極具活力的情況。如果徵收關稅，市場就會自我平衡，生產各地區所需的產品。

Matt, if the domestic light oil is available for Toledo and indeed that you're going to replace Syncrude in one year, how that impacts your product yield and throughput if that is available and you make that decision?

馬特，如果托萊多有國內輕質石油可供使用，而且你確實要在一年內取代 Syncrude，如果國內輕質石油可供使用並且你做出了這個決定，這會對你的產品產量和產量產生什麼影響？

So I'm trying to understand what technically is available -- is the capability that you can do in that particular case. And also that -- on my first question on the East Coast, if the first quarter end up, that will be the one way. So we assume full year, your run rate will be lower than the previous full-year guidance. Thank you.

因此，我試圖了解技術上可用的內容——即在特定情況下您可以實現的功能。而且——關於東海岸的第一個問題，如果第一季結束，那將是一種方式。因此，我們假設全年的運行率將低於先前的全年預期。謝謝。

No. As I said, you have to make a market assumption to drive what you think throughputs are. But we're not limited by any stretch on East Coast. In regards to the -- I think your question is theoretical. If you were able to deliver all US domestic light sweet crude, what would be the yield impact to Toledo.

不。正如我所說，你必須做出市場假設來推動你認為的吞吐量。但我們不受東海岸任何範圍的限制。關於——我認為你的問題是理論上的。如果您能夠交付所有美國國內輕質低硫原油，這對托萊多的產量會有什麼影響？

Toledo, not unlike any other refinery, would have a yield impact. We run a significant slate of synthetic crude out of Canada, which has specifications and qualities that Toledo is optimized around, to the extent you change that crude site for Toledo or for any other refinery in Chicago or throughout the PADD, there will be yield impacts.

托萊多與其他煉油廠一樣，會對產量產生影響。我們在加拿大經營大量合成原油，其規格和品質是托萊多優化的基礎，如果你將原油站點改為托萊多或芝加哥或整個 PADD 的任何其他煉油廠，就會對產量產生影響。

And it's too difficult to get into the specifics of exactly what happens, but throughput will be down. There's no -- by the way, that's not really a PADD 2. I mean, it's true in PADD 5 or any other PADD. To the degree you're not running your optimized crude, it's the optimized crude for a reason. And there will be throughput yield impact.

雖然很難確切了解發生的具體情況，但吞吐量確實會下降。順便說一句，那實際上不是 PADD 2。我的意思是，無論在 PADD 5 或任何其他 PADD 中，這都是正確的。就您沒有運行優化原油的程度而言，它之所以成為優化原油是有原因的。這將對吞吐量產生影響。

Thank you. Matt, since I'm the last caller here, can I sneak in a third question?

謝謝。馬特，由於我是這裡最後一個打電話的人，我可以偷偷問第三個問題嗎？

Paul, just for you.

保羅，只為你。

Thank you, really appreciate it. On the insurance, I assume that you have the business interruption insurance also in here. And can you tell us what's the deductible?

謝謝，真的很感激。關於保險，我假設您也在這裡購買了營業中斷保險。您能告訴我們免賠額是多少嗎？

Look, I don't want to get into specifics on insurance. We have a manageable deductible. And as I said before, we have all the proper insurance in place.

瞧，我不想談保險的具體細節。我們有一個可管理的免賠額。正如我之前所說，我們已經購買了所有適當的保險。

Okay, we do. Thank you.

好的，我們知道。謝謝。

We have reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I will turn the call over to Matt Lucey for closing remarks.

我們的問答環節已經結束。我將把電話轉給馬特·盧西 (Matt Lucey) 來做結束語。

We greatly appreciate your participation today and look forward to communicating with each of you in the future. Thank you very much.

我們非常感謝您今天的參與，並期待將來與您們每一個人的交流。非常感謝。

This concludes today's conference, and you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束，各位現在可以掛斷電話了。感謝您的參與。