Pangaea Logistics Solutions Ltd (PANL) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. My name is Shelby, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Pangaea Logistics Solutions Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2022 Earnings Teleconference. Today's call is being recorded and will be available for replay beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. The recording can be accessed by dialing (800) 283-9429 domestic, or (402) 220-0871 international.

早上好。我叫謝爾比，今天我將擔任你們的會議接線員。此時，我想歡迎大家參加 Pangea Logistics Solutions 第四季度和 2022 年全年收益電話會議。今天的通話正在錄製中，將從東部標準時間上午 11:00 開始重播。可以通過撥打國內電話 (800) 283-9429 或國際電話 (402) 220-0871 來訪問錄音。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Noel Ryan with Vallum Advisors.

現在我很高興將發言權交給 Vallum Advisors 的 Noel Ryan。

Thank you, operator, and welcome to the Pangaea Logistics Solutions' Fourth Quarter and Full Year '22 Results Conference Call. Leading the call with me today is CEO, Mark Filanowski; Chief Financial Officer, Gianni Del Signore; and COO, Mads Petersen.

謝謝運營商，歡迎來到 Pangea Logistics Solutions 第四季度和全年 '22 業績電話會議。今天與我一起主持電話會議的是首席執行官馬克·菲拉諾夫斯基 (Mark Filanowski)；首席財務官 Gianni Del Signore；首席運營官 Mads Petersen。

Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements about future business and financial expectations. Actual results may differ significantly from those projected in today's forward-looking statements due to various risks and uncertainties, including the risks described in our periodic reports filed with the SEC. Except as required by law, we undertake no obligation to update our forward-looking statements. At the conclusion of our prepared remarks, we will open the line for questions.

今天的討論包含有關未來業務和財務預期的前瞻性陳述。由於各種風險和不確定性，包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的定期報告中描述的風險，實際結果可能與今天的前瞻性陳述中預測的結果大不相同。除法律要求外，我們不承擔更新前瞻性陳述的義務。在我們準備好的發言結束時，我們將打開提問熱線。

And with that, I would like to turn the call over to Mark.

有了這個，我想把電話轉給馬克。

Thank you, Noel, and welcome to those joining us on the call and webcast today.

謝謝你，Noel，歡迎今天加入我們的電話會議和網絡廣播。

After the market closed yesterday, we issued results for the 3 and 12 months ended December 31, 2023. Last year, we continued to develop a leading dry bulk logistics and transportation services company of scale, while providing our customers with specialized shipping, supply chain and logistics offerings in commodity and niche markets.

昨日收市後，我們發布了截至2023年12月31日的3個月和12個月的業績。去年，我們繼續發展規模領先的干散貨物流運輸服務公司，同時為我們的客戶提供專業的航運、供應鏈商品和利基市場的物流服務。

Our record full year profitability and operating cash flow put on display the durability of our vertically integrated premium rate shipping logistics model during a period of pronounced market volatility. TCE rates were strong in the first half of 2022, with the first 6 months being some of the best we've seen in years.

我們創紀錄的全年盈利能力和經營現金流顯示了我們垂直整合的溢價航運物流模式在市場劇烈波動期間的耐用性。 TCE 率在 2022 年上半年表現強勁，前 6 個月是我們多年來看到的最好水平。

During this period, we capitalized on the strong demand and rate environment by fully utilizing our fleet, including our 4 new build Ice-Class vessels, together with 5 secondhand vessels purchased in the prior 24 months and the purchase of 1/3 interest in our NBHC joint venture from one of our partners in late 2020, which effectively added 2 more vessels to our fleet.

在此期間，我們利用強勁的需求和價格環境充分利用我們的船隊，包括我們的 4 艘新建造的 Ice-Class 船，以及在過去 24 個月購買的 5 艘二手船以及購買我們 1/3 的權益NBHC 在 2020 年底與我們的一個合作夥伴合資，有效地為我們的船隊增加了 2 艘船。

During the fourth quarter, our chartered-in strategy drove positive arbitrage in a falling rate market. While market conditions deteriorated during -- beginning in the latter half of 2022, our long-term transportation contracts and flexible chartered-in fleet positioned us to perform well in excess of the market indices.

在第四季度，我們的特許經營策略在利率下降的市場中推動了積極的套利。儘管從 2022 年下半年開始市場狀況惡化，但我們的長期運輸合同和靈活的包機車隊使我們的表現優於市場指數。

TCE earn declined 38.5% on a year-over-year basis in the fourth quarter, but our average TCE rate exceeded the average benchmark by 41% in the period. First quarter 2023 to date, our TCE booked for 3,970 ship days is $15,065 per day. Our premium rate model, which leverages the integrated benefits of specialty cargo carriage and onshore supply chain solutions, contributed to the 480 basis points adjusted EBITDA margin expansion realized in the fourth quarter when compared to the prior year-end -- year period.

第四季度 TCE 收入同比下降 38.5%，但我們的平均 TCE 率在此期間超過平均基準 41%。 2023 年第一季度至今，我們為 3,970 個發貨日預訂的 TCE 為每天 15,065 美元。我們的保費率模型利用了特種貨物運輸和陸上供應鏈解決方案的綜合優勢，與去年同期相比，第四季度調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率實現了 480 個基點的增長。

In 2022, we generated nearly $100 million in free cash flow, positioning us to pursue a balanced self-funded approach toward organic and inorganic growth investments together with a robust and consistent dividend program. In 2023, our capital allocation priorities will include fleet renewal and measured expansion, expanding our logistics platform, particularly as it relates to complementary, immediately accretive onshore opportunities, further debt reduction and continued support of our quarterly cash dividend, which, on an annualized basis, represents more than $18 million in dividends to shareholders.

2022 年，我們產生了近 1 億美元的自由現金流，使我們能夠採用平衡的自籌資金方式進行有機和無機增長投資，同時實施穩健且一致的股息計劃。 2023 年，我們的資本配置優先事項將包括船隊更新和有計劃的擴張，擴大我們的物流平台，特別是因為它與互補的、立即增值的在岸機會有關，進一步減少債務和繼續支持我們的季度現金股息，按年計算，代表超過 1800 萬美元的股東紅利。

Looking ahead to the remainder of 2023, we anticipate that a post-pandemic reopening in China and stable economic activity in the west should provide incremental support for global dry bulk demand. On the supply side, global dry bulk shipping capacity is constrained for the foreseeable future, given the combined impact of low new-build activity and recent introduction of new IMO-mandated emissions reduction regulations that will impact older, less efficient fleets and will further restrict new building orders.

展望 2023 年剩餘時間，我們預計中國疫情后的重新開放和西方穩定的經濟活動將為全球幹散貨需求提供增量支持。在供應方面，全球幹散貨運輸能力在可預見的未來受到限制，原因是新船建造活動低迷以及最近出台的新的 IMO 強制減排法規將影響老舊、效率低下的船隊，並將進一步限制新的建築訂單。

In January 2023, we entered into an agreement to sell our Bulk Newport, a 2003 Supramax vessel, for $9.2 million. This sale is consistent with our strategy of maintaining a modern and efficient fleet amid tightening global emissions regulations. Looking ahead, we intend to opportunistically manage our fleet and commercial operations with the purpose of maximizing TCE rate, while continuing to support client requirements.

2023 年 1 月，我們簽訂了一項協議，以 920 萬美元的價格出售我們的 Bulk Newport，這是一艘 2003 年建造的超靈便型船舶。此次出售符合我們在全球排放法規收緊的情況下維持現代化高效車隊的戰略。展望未來，我們打算機會主義地管理我們的機隊和商業運營，以最大限度地提高 TCE 率，同時繼續支持客戶的需求。

In closing, I want to personally thank all of our employees, partners and shareholders for their continued support. We see many opportunities for profitable growth on the horizon, and we look forward to providing you regular updates on our progress.

最後，我要親自感謝我們所有的員工、合作夥伴和股東一直以來的支持。我們看到許多即將出現的盈利增長機會，我們期待為您定期更新我們的進展。

With that, I'll hand it over to Gianni.

有了這個，我會把它交給詹尼。

Thank you, Mark, and welcome to all of those joining us today.

謝謝你，馬克，歡迎今天加入我們的所有人。

Our fourth quarter financial results continue to emphasize the flexibility of our business model as we were able to maximize our operating leverage through our chartered-in strategy and deliver solid returns that made a weakening dry bulk market.

我們的第四季度財務業績繼續強調我們商業模式的靈活性，因為我們能夠通過特許經營戰略最大限度地發揮我們的經營槓桿作用，並提供可觀的回報，從而削弱幹散貨市場。

Fourth quarter TCE rates were approximately $20,000 per day, a premium of more than 40% to the average published market rates for Supramax and Panamax vessels in the period, which is supported by our long-term COAs and our ability to opportunistically lock in short-term cargo business. Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $26.8 million, capping off 2022 with full year adjusted EBITDA of $140 million, a record for Pangaea. Our margins expanded approximately 480 basis points on a year-over-year basis in the fourth quarter, even as adjusted EBITDA declined year-over-year.

第四季度 TCE 費率約為每天 20,000 美元，比同期公佈的超靈便型和巴拿馬型船舶平均市場費率高出 40% 以上，這得到了我們的長期 COA 和我們機會主義地鎖定短期-的能力的支持術語貨運業務。本季度調整後的 EBITDA 為 2680 萬美元，到 2022 年全年調整後的 EBITDA 為 1.4 億美元，創下了 Pangaea 的歷史記錄。儘管調整後的 EBITDA 同比下降，但第四季度我們的利潤率同比增長了約 480 個基點。

The overall decline in adjusted EBITDA in the fourth quarter was primarily due to a 45% year-over-year decrease in total revenue attributable to lower market rates and a 29% decline in total shipping days. This revenue decline was partially offset by lower chartered-in higher expenses, which declined by $86.8 million year-over-year to $28.2 million in the fourth quarter.

第四季度調整後的 EBITDA 整體下降主要是由於較低的市場費率導致總收入同比下降 45% 以及總運輸天數下降 29%。這一收入下降被較低的特許收入增加部分抵消，第四季度支出同比下降 8680 萬美元至 2820 萬美元。

Chartered-in days declined by 55%, as the company's favored trip charters over period charters in the fourth quarter of '22 versus 2021. Vessel operating expenses increased approximately 21%. However, for the full year, vessel operating expenses on a per-day basis, excluding management fees, was approximately $5,800 a day, an increase of about 10%, mainly due to increased crew travel expenses and crew management expenses.

租用天數下降了 55%，因為公司在 2022 年第四季度比 2021 年第四季度更喜歡定期租船。船舶運營費用增加了約 21%。然而，就全年而言，不包括管理費在內的每天船舶運營費用約為每天 5,800 美元，增長約 10%，主要是由於船員差旅費和船員管理費增加。

As we've discussed in the past, we utilized forward freight agreements and bunker swaps to selectively hedge our exposure to the market on our long-term cargo contracts and forward bookings. While this approach locks in future cash flows, the mark-to-market unrealized gains or losses can lead to fluctuations in our reported results on a period-to-period basis, while settlement of the position and execution of the physical will occur at a future date.

正如我們過去所討論的那樣，我們利用遠期貨運協議和燃油互換來選擇性地對沖我們在長期貨運合同和遠期預訂方面的市場風險。雖然這種方法鎖定了未來的現金流量，但按市值計價的未實現收益或損失可能導致我們報告的結果逐期波動，而頭寸的結算和實物的執行將發生在未來的日期。

As such, during the fourth quarter, our reported net income reflects unrealized gains of approximately $1.1 million and $465,000 relating to mark-to-market adjustments on bunker swaps and forward freight agreements respectively and an unrealized loss on interest rate derivatives of $371,000. In total, our reported GAAP net income attributable to Pangaea for the fourth quarter was $15.5 million or $0.34 per diluted share, in line with the fourth quarter of 2021.

因此，在第四季度，我們報告的淨收入分別反映了與燃油掉期和遠期運費協議按市價調整相關的未實現收益約 110 萬美元和 465,000 美元，以及利率衍生品的未實現損失 371,000 美元。總的來說，我們報告的第四季度歸屬於 Pangea 的 GAAP 淨收入為 1550 萬美元或攤薄後每股收益 0.34 美元，與 2021 年第四季度一致。

Moving on to the cash flow statement. Total cash from operations increased 73% year-over-year to $32.9 million in the fourth quarter of 2022. As a result, the company had $128.4 million in cash and cash equivalents and total debt, including finance lease obligations of $299.5 million.

轉到現金流量表。 2022 年第四季度，運營現金總額同比增長 73% 至 3290 萬美元。因此，公司擁有 1.284 億美元的現金和現金等價物以及總債務，包括 2.995 億美元的融資租賃義務。

During the quarter, the impact of higher interest rates was relatively muted in our results due to our fixed rate and cap rate debt. Of our total long-term debt and financial leases, 53% is fixed at an all-in rate of 4.04%. 40% is capped at LIBOR rate of 3.25%, and 8% is floating at LIBOR plus 2.1%. At the end of the fourth quarter of 2022, the ratio of net debt to trailing 12-month adjusted EBITDA was 1.25x.

在本季度，由於我們的固定利率和上限利率債務，較高利率對我們業績的影響相對較小。在我們的長期債務和融資租賃總額中，53% 的總利率固定為 4.04%。 40% 的 LIBOR 利率上限為 3.25%，8% 的利率為 LIBOR 加 2.1%。 2022 年第四季度末，淨債務與過去 12 個月調整後 EBITDA 的比率為 1.25 倍。

In conclusion, our vertically integrated shipping and logistics model delivered above-market growth during the fourth quarter, supported by strong execution of our chartered-in strategy, continued fleet expansion and disciplined capital allocation.

總之，我們的垂直整合航運和物流模式在第四季度實現了高於市場的增長，這得益於我們包租戰略的強有力執行、持續的船隊擴張和嚴格的資本配置。

Entering 2023, our liquidity position has never been stronger, positioning us to drive strategic investments in new vessels and logistics operations, while continuing to reduce debt and pay a stable quarterly cash dividend. As we seek to deploy capital toward new growth opportunities, we will aim to further optimize our return on capital invested, consistent with our commitment to long-term value creation for our shareholders.

進入 2023 年，我們的流動性狀況從未如此強勁，使我們能夠推動對新船和物流業務的戰略投資，同時繼續減少債務並支付穩定的季度現金股息。在我們尋求將資本用於新的增長機會時，我們將致力於進一步優化我們的投資回報率，這與我們為股東創造長期價值的承諾是一致的。

With that, we will now open the line for questions.

有了這個，我們現在將打開問題熱線。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

I will take our first question from Liam Burke with B. Riley.

我將與 B. Riley 一起回答 Liam Burke 的第一個問題。

Mark, you mentioned the IMO mandate in terms of carbon emissions and slow steaming. I know it's early in the year, but are you seeing any further capacity tightening on the global fleet related to slow steaming?

馬克，你提到了國際海事組織在碳排放和慢速航行方面的規定。我知道現在是今年年初，但您是否看到與慢速航行相關的全球船隊運力進一步收緊？

We don't see it yet, Liam. I think people are still trying to figure out exactly how the CII regulations are going to affect everyone. You've got to be careful on how you plan your voyages and try to operate your ships as efficiently as possible to make sure that you don't end up with a problem at the end of the year by doing something that's going to affect you early in the year.

我們還沒有看到它，利亞姆。我認為人們仍在試圖弄清楚 CII 法規將如何影響每個人。你必須小心計劃你的航程，並儘可能有效地操作你的船隻，以確保你不會在年底因為做一些會影響你的事情而遇到問題今年年初。

So people are trying to work their way through these regulations. We're looking at the CII impact of voyages already on our ships and trying to make sense of exactly what we're going to have to do toward the end of the year to make sure that we get the best ratings on our ships.

因此，人們正試圖通過這些法規來解決問題。我們正在研究已經在我們的船上航行的 CII 影響，並試圖弄清楚我們在年底前必須做些什麼，以確保我們的船獲得最佳評級。

Mads Petersen is here with me. He's really leading the charts here on the Pangaea side in terms of these regulations. Maybe he has a comment directly.

Mads Petersen 和我在一起。就這些規定而言，他確實在 Pangea 方面處於領先地位。也許他直接有評論。

No. But thanks, Mark. Hi, Liam. It is actually a question at the moment of Pangaea. We're sort of shadow complying with it, where we are monitoring and tracking how we are stacking up against the new regulation, but it's not something that has an operational impact yet. I hope this was helpful for many others.

不，但是謝謝，馬克。嗨，利亞姆。這其實是盤古大陸當下的一個問題。我們有點像影子一樣遵守它，我們正在監視和跟踪我們如何應對新法規，但這還沒有對運營產生影響。我希望這對其他許多人有幫助。

Okay. Got it. Your CapEx is relatively low, except if you go out and buy more assets. But cash flow should be strong. Your balance sheet is in the best shape ever. How are you looking at capital allocation in 2023?

好的。知道了。你的資本支出相對較低，除非你出去購買更多資產。但現金流應該很強勁。您的資產負債表處於有史以來最好的狀態。您如何看待 2023 年的資本配置？

Liam, it's Gianni. I think we're pretty consistent. Our strategy remains the same. It's been for many years. And I think we -- like you said, we've never been in a better position. We can be opportunistic, and we can look at different things that, in the past, perhaps we wouldn't be in a position to look at.

利亞姆，是詹尼。我認為我們非常一致。我們的策略保持不變。已經很多年了。而且我認為我們 - 就像你說的那樣，我們從未處於更好的位置。我們可以投機取巧，我們可以審視過去可能無法審視的不同事物。

That being said, I think if we look at our priorities, our chartered fleet and our own fleet are always priorities for us. We're selling the Bulk Newport. We may look at 1 or 2 additional assets this year to sort of supplement the fleet and continue to look for some opportunities to renew.

話雖如此，我認為如果我們看一下我們的優先事項，我們的特許車隊和我們自己的車隊始終是我們的優先事項。我們正在出售 Bulk Newport。我們今年可能會考慮增加 1 或 2 個資產來補充機隊，並繼續尋找一些更新的機會。

Debt service, we continue to pay down debt. We're paying $8 million to $10 million a quarter for 2023. And then we have our first meaningful balloon in Q2 of '24. So we want to be in a position to have a flexibility to do what we want as we approach that balloon. It's about $20 million, $20 million balloon in 2024.

還本付息，我們繼續償還債務。我們將在 2023 年每季度支付 800 萬至 1000 萬美元。然後我們將在 24 年第二季度推出第一個有意義的氣球。因此，當我們接近那個氣球時，我們希望能夠靈活地做我們想做的事。大約是 2000 萬美元，2024 年是 2000 萬美元的氣球。

And then we said it before, our message to everyone is we try to be consistent, and that goes for our dividend as well. So we want to continue to be in a position where we can pay that dividend through the cycle for as long as possible. But it's good to be in a position we're in, and it's good to have that flexibility so we can be opportunistic.

然後我們之前說過，我們向每個人傳達的信息是我們努力保持一致，這也適用於我們的紅利。因此，我們希望繼續處於能夠在整個週期中盡可能長時間地支付紅利的位置。但處於我們所處的位置是件好事，而且擁有這種靈活性是件好事，這樣我們就可以投機取巧。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

We'll take our next question from Poe Fratt with AGP.

我們將通過 AGP 接受 Poe Fratt 的下一個問題。

Gianni, for you first. Can you just talk -- I mean you sort of alluded to it, but can you just talk about -- cash on the balance sheet has almost doubled over the last year or more than doubled. It's -- you're carrying about $2.85 of cash on the balance sheet. Granted, you're -- you still -- you have a reasonable amount of debt.

詹尼，首先是你。你能不能談談 - 我的意思是你有點提到它，但你能不能談談 - 資產負債表上的現金在去年幾乎翻了一番或翻了一番以上。這是——你的資產負債表上有大約 2.85 美元的現金。誠然，你——你仍然——有合理數額的債務。

Can you just talk about you're a little more deeper into your cash management strategy? And then on top of that, you're selling the Newport so that you get another roughly $8.5 million net coming in. So does it make sense to carry that much cash?

你能談談你對你的現金管理策略更深入一點嗎？然後最重要的是，你要賣掉 Newport，這樣你就可以再淨賺大約 850 萬美元。那麼攜帶那麼多現金有意義嗎？

So I think -- Thanks, Poe. It's a great question, and we are certainly looking at that internally and at the Board level as well. The first thing, I guess, I would point you to and others is Note 4 in our 10-K, which is a reconciliation or a breakdown of our cash. And I think it's worth noting that some of that cash, of the $128 million, is held in joint ventures that are consolidated. So we have our partners that also have a say in the utilization of that cash.

所以我想——謝謝，Poe。這是一個很好的問題，我們當然也在內部和董事會層面考慮這個問題。我想，我會向您和其他人指出的第一件事是我們 10-K 中的註釋 4，這是我們現金的對賬或細目分類。我認為值得注意的是，在 1.28 億美元的現金中，有一部分是在合併後的合資企業中持有的。因此，我們的合作夥伴在使用這筆現金方面也有發言權。

So if you look at Note 4, there's the amount of cash attributable just to Pangaea and we have full access to, let's say, versus consolidated is about $85 million. But in whole, I agree with you. It's -- we're looking for opportunities to deploy it. There's actual yield now at different banks.

因此，如果你看一下附註 4，就會發現只有 Pangea 才有的現金數額，我們可以完全訪問，比方說，與合併相比，現金數額約為 8500 萬美元。但總的來說，我同意你的看法。它是 - 我們正在尋找部署它的機會。現在不同銀行都有實際收益率。

But back to my comments to Liam, I think being able to have the -- to be as opportunistic as possible, to be in a position where we have flexibility to look at different projects, I think, is important for us. And we're trying to -- we are returning cash to shareholders. We are paying a dividend. We've incrementally increased it over 2022. And if we see opportunities to do other things or return in other forms, then we certainly are looking at that as well.

但是回到我對利亞姆的評論，我認為能夠——盡可能地投機取巧，處於一個我們可以靈活地看待不同項目的位置，我認為，這對我們來說很重要。我們正在努力——我們正在向股東返還現金。我們正在支付股息。我們在 2022 年逐步增加了它。如果我們看到有機會做其他事情或以其他形式返回，那麼我們當然也在考慮。

And then you control the joint venture though. You have 2/3 ownership interest. You refinanced a lot of the joint venture debt. So why not move that cash over to corporate?

然後你控制合資企業。您擁有 2/3 的所有權權益。你為很多合資債務再融資。那麼，為什麼不將現金轉移到公司呢？

Yes, we did. We are -- we're doing that. We paid a $15 million dividend out of one of our joint ventures, and we'll continue -- we will continue to do that. Absolutely.

是的我們做了。我們是——我們正在這樣做。我們從我們的一家合資企業中支付了 1500 萬美元的股息，我們將繼續——我們將繼續這樣做。絕對地。

So I think the -- we revisit that periodically at the Pangaea Board level, and we revisit it with our partners frequently as well. So we don't want to sit on cash if we don't expect to use it. We want to be able to deploy it in ways that are meaningful to the business and are generating value. And I think that will be -- that's how we view our cash, and that's how we'll view it going forward.

所以我認為 - 我們會定期在 Pangea 董事會層面重新審視它，我們也經常與我們的合作夥伴一起重新審視它。因此，如果我們不希望使用它，我們就不想坐擁現金。我們希望能夠以對業務有意義並產生價值的方式部署它。我認為這將是——這就是我們看待現金的方式，也是我們未來看待現金的方式。

And then who would have thought over the last 10 days, some of the things that are happening in the banking industry. Can you just comment on how -- whether you've run a risk analysis on where your cash is and where you potentially might see some concerns?

然後誰會想到在過去 10 天裡，銀行業正在發生的一些事情。你能不能評論一下——你是否對你的現金在哪里以及你可能會在哪裡看到一些擔憂進行了風險分析？

Yes, we -- you're absolutely right. It's -- it certainly sends some panic to the market on where you have your cash, and we're very mindful of that. We've always reviewed our banks. We're not just a U.S.-focused banking system, but we're global, right? We're making payments. We're receiving payments all across the world. So we've generally been in the big banks, and we have a lot of our cash, almost all of it, in what we would gain the larger banks and larger Western banks in the U.S. and Europe.

是的，我們——你完全正確。它 - 它肯定會給市場帶來一些恐慌，因為你有現金，我們非常注意這一點。我們一直在審查我們的銀行。我們不僅僅是一個以美國為中心的銀行系統，而且我們是全球性的，對吧？我們正在付款。我們在世界各地接收付款。所以我們一般都在大銀行，我們有很多現金，幾乎所有現金，我們將在美國和歐洲獲得更大的銀行和更大的西方銀行。

So yes, we're looking very closely. We feel we are in a good position where our cash currently is. So who knows? I know who knows what's ahead, but we'll try to keep it in a place that we feel as comfortable as possible.

所以是的，我們正在非常仔細地尋找。我們覺得我們目前的現金處於有利地位。那麼誰知道呢？我知道誰知道未來會發生什麼，但我們會盡量把它放在一個我們覺得盡可能舒服的地方。

Great. And then Mads, if we could talk about, one, how is the Ice-Class market looking for the rest of the year? And then two, you really scaled back the chartered-in fleet over the course of the fourth quarter. Can you give us an idea of where you are on the chartered-in fleet right now? And how you -- how the charted-in fleet looks for the rest of the year? And then just layer on top of that, just where you might see the 1 to 2 assets? Is it Ice-Class or non-Ice-Class? Sort of what you're looking at to continue the fleet renewal program?

偉大的。然後 Mads，如果我們可以談談，第一，Ice-Class 市場在今年剩餘時間裡的表現如何？然後兩個，你真的在第四季度縮減了租用機隊。你能告訴我們你現在在包租機隊中的位置嗎？你如何 - 在今年餘下的時間裡，船隊的情況如何？然後在上面疊加一層，就在您可能會看到 1 到 2 個資產的地方？是冰級還是非冰級？您正在尋找什麼來繼續機隊更新計劃？

Happy to do that. I think assets -- starting with your last point there in terms of the assets we're looking at for -- to add to the fleet to the own fleet. Our focus is on our sort of conventional fleet, the Supramax and Ultramax. That is probably -- that's why we have our focus, and that's why we look to that to the fleet. We're not looking to add to the aircraft fleet at the moment in any size really.

很高興這樣做。我認為資產——從你的最後一點開始，就我們正在尋找的資產而言——將其添加到自己的機隊中。我們的重點是我們的傳統船隊，超靈便型和超靈便型。這可能是 - 這就是為什麼我們有我們的重點，這就是為什麼我們將目光投向艦隊。我們目前並不打算增加任何規模的機隊。

In terms of the chartered-in fleet, I mean, that number will fluctuate in accordance with the market, our customers, how busy they are and ultimately, of course, our view on where we think the market will be. So you're absolutely right. That number did go down throughout the latter half of last year. That's the way that this part of the business is designed to operate.

就包租機隊而言，我的意思是，這個數字將根據市場、我們的客戶、他們的忙碌程度以及最終，當然，我們對市場的看法而波動。所以你是絕對正確的。這個數字在去年下半年確實有所下降。這就是這部分業務的設計運作方式。

It -- when the market is dropping like it is, the last quarter last year, we can reprice the fleet. We can redeliver the challenging fleet as we go and then we fix and ship cheaper, right? So that means that rather than having maybe some short period shifts in the fleet, we will just execute on time to have trips to extract the most value out of whatever market is at the current time, right?

它 - 當市場像去年最後一個季度一樣下跌時，我們可以重新定價機隊。我們可以隨時重新交付具有挑戰性的艦隊，然後我們修理並以更便宜的價格運送，對吧？因此，這意味著與其在機隊中進行一些短期輪班，不如按時執行以從當前的任何市場中獲取最大價值，對嗎？

We have done that before. We didn't want to load up on (inaudible) going into Q1. That proved to be the right decision as the market kept trending lower. But as things are improving now, I imagine that this part of the fleet will actually sort of will grow a bit over the next, yes, 3 to 6 months depending on what happens in the market.

我們以前做過。我們不想加載（聽不清）進入第一季度。事實證明這是正確的決定，因為市場繼續走低。但隨著現在情況的改善，我想這部分機隊實際上會在接下來的 3 到 6 個月內有所增長，具體取決於市場情況。

We're always seeing the early signs of better value in the short period market, and we are trying to extract that. We don't have a fixed number of ships that we need to employ in this part of the business that it is designed to be dynamic and contract and expand in line with the market.

我們總是在短期市場上看到更好價值的早期跡象，我們正在努力提取它。我們沒有固定數量的船舶需要在這部分業務中使用，它被設計為動態的，並根據市場收縮和擴展。

And then on the Ice-Class front, the ships have been predominantly engaged in sort of the North Atlantic market at the moment, and we have been doing some business out of the San Lorenzo. We haven't done really anything in the Baltic following our decision that was already taken last year to not engage in any trade from Russia or the Russian with cargoes bus in origin. So that did impact the earnings of that fleet compared to where normally would be this time of year, but it is an efficient fleet, it's a modern fleet. It can do conventional driver business.

然後在冰級前線，這些船目前主要從事北大西洋市場，我們一直在聖洛倫索以外做一些生意。自去年我們決定不從事任何來自俄羅斯或俄羅斯的貨運巴士貿易以來，我們在波羅的海並沒有真正做任何事情。因此，與每年這個時候的正常情況相比，這確實影響了該機隊的收入，但它是一支高效的機隊，它是一支現代化的機隊。它可以做常規的司機業務。

So -- and it is for the quarter, right? And of course, we are still -- we still have our Baffinland contract that's coming up over the summer, where all sand ships will be engaged in that business. So yes. Does that answer your question?

所以 - 這是本季度的，對嗎？當然，我們仍然 - 我們仍然有我們的 Baffinland 合同，該合同將在今年夏天到期，所有的沙船都將從事這項業務。所以是的。這是否回答你的問題？

Absolutely. Great color. And Mark, not to leave you out.

絕對地。很棒的顏色。馬克，不要把你排除在外。

Thank you.

謝謝。

When you look at -- you've been talking about expanding the logistics business for a couple of quarters, if not longer. Can you just talk about strategically what you want to accomplish on the logistics side? It hasn't hit the radar screen as far as materiality yet. Can you just talk about strategically what you want to do there? And then also give us an idea of sort of how much capital you might be able to deploy? And then if you could just talk about what kind of return on capital your targets might include?

當你看 - 你一直在談論擴大物流業務幾個季度，如果不是更長的話。你能從戰略上談談你想在物流方面完成什麼嗎？就重要性而言，它還沒有出現在雷達屏幕上。你能從戰略上談談你想在那裡做什麼嗎？然後還讓我們了解您可以部署多少資金？然後，您是否可以談談您的目標可能包括什麼樣的資本回報率？

Okay. First of all, the strategy is really, Poe, is to get more cargo to put on our ships, expand the opportunity for shipping, right? So we can get closer to cargo by developing a relationship with a miner or a producer and get more cargo on our ships to deliver to customers on the other end of the voyage, then that helps our shipping business. But it also gives us a little return on the activity we're doing, even during activity we might be doing in the low form. So overall, our margins increase. Our throughput increases. Our revenue increases, and it gives us other opportunities for other movements that miner might be making.

好的。首先，Poe 的戰略真的是讓更多的貨物裝上我們的船，擴大航運的機會，對吧？因此，我們可以通過與礦工或生產商建立關係來更接近貨物，並在我們的船上運送更多貨物，以便在航程的另一端交付給客戶，這有助於我們的航運業務。但它也為我們正在進行的活動提供了一點回報，即使在我們可能以低形式進行的活動期間也是如此。所以總的來說，我們的利潤率增加了。我們的吞吐量增加了。我們的收入增加了，它為我們提供了礦工可能進行的其他活動的其他機會。

On the other side, where we arrived with cargo, say, in our Sabine terminal, we take the -- we arrived with our ship or another person's ship, another company ship and comes in and we discharge that cargo. We get closer to the end user on that point. So maybe if they've got cargo to ship into the U.S. Gulf, they can ship it into Sabine, we can do the same thing and get more cargo on our ship coming to our managed terminal where we get additional margin for doing the extra work.

在另一邊，我們帶著貨物到達的地方，比如說，在我們的薩賓碼頭，我們帶著我們的船或其他人的船到達，另一家公司的船進來，然後我們卸貨。在這一點上，我們更接近最終用戶。所以也許如果他們有貨物要運到美國海灣，他們可以把它運到薩賓，我們可以做同樣的事情，讓我們的船上有更多的貨物運到我們管理的碼頭，在那裡我們可以通過做額外的工作獲得額外的利潤.

So that's really the strategy to expand the shipping business by doing these other things on each end. Now that gives -- having the opportunity, having the operation going in Sabine gives us other opportunities to do business for other ships.

因此，這確實是通過在每一端做這些其他事情來擴展航運業務的戰略。現在這給了 - 有機會，在 Sabine 開展業務為我們提供了為其他船舶開展業務的其他機會。

Back last summer when Houston was very crowded, decongested, we got -- we did some business with third-party companies, either suppliers or buyers of commodities that were trying to get into Texas into Houston, but they came to Sabine instead and we helped them in that area. And we developed relationships with those customers that are ongoing.

去年夏天休斯敦非常擁擠、交通不便時，我們與第三方公司開展了一些業務，這些公司可能是商品的供應商或買家，他們試圖進入德克薩斯州進入休斯敦，但他們卻來到了薩賓，我們提供了幫助他們在那個地區。我們與那些持續存在的客戶建立了關係。

So it's just expansion of the whole touch of cargo from beginning point to end point is what we're really after, Poe. In terms of capital, we could spend a lot of money going on buying real estate up and down the Mississippi River or in the U.S. Gulf Coast, but not in our target right now to do that. We're trying to do it where our customers -- our current customers are active. Maybe trying to get hold of another terminal that we can operate with existing customers to expand our business with them and expand, like I said, in different ways with suppliers, producers, shippers to get more cargoes on the ships.

因此，Poe，我們真正追求的只是從起點到終點的整個貨物觸感的擴展。在資金方面，我們可以花很多錢在密西西比河上下或美國墨西哥灣沿岸購買房地產，但我們現在的目標不是那樣做。我們正在努力在我們的客戶——我們當前的客戶活躍的地方做這件事。也許試圖獲得另一個我們可以與現有客戶合作的碼頭，以擴大我們與他們的業務，並像我說的那樣，以不同的方式與供應商、生產商、托運人擴大業務，以便在船上運送更多貨物。

In terms of ROE, we're looking at projects today that would be in the mid-teens, I guess, in terms of if we just took that opportunity by itself. But really, again, what we're trying to do is expand returns on the whole business by getting additional freight on carriage of cargo and extra services, stevedoring services, packaged altogether gives us an overall higher return. So again, that's the strategy, looking at individual projects, probably mid-teens is our target right now.

就 ROE 而言，我想，如果我們自己抓住這個機會，我們今天正在研究的項目將在十幾歲左右。但實際上，我們再次嘗試做的是通過在貨物運輸和額外服務、裝卸服務中獲得額外運費來擴大整個業務的回報，打包在一起給我們帶來更高的整體回報。再次重申，這就是策略，著眼於各個項目，我們現在的目標可能是十幾歲。

Okay. And then, Mark, would you -- I think I heard it, but when you characterized the logistics business is lower risk and a little more consistent than on the fleet side that there's risk adjusted, the volatility is going to be a lot lower, maybe the returns are lower in peak cycles, but there's more consistency, so it creates a little more consistency in the overall business?

好的。然後，馬克，你會不會 - 我想我聽到了，但是當你描述物流業務的風險較低並且比船隊方面更一致時，風險調整，波動性會低很多，也許高峰週期的回報率較低，但一致性更高，因此它在整體業務中創造了更多的一致性？

Yes. For instance, Poe, we're looking at a project right now to take cargo into a new port that we're trying to develop a relationship with in the Gulf Coast. So the project comes with -- it's really based on a contract for carriage of commodity into that port.

是的。例如，Poe，我們現在正在研究一個項目，將貨物運到我們正試圖在墨西哥灣沿岸發展關係的新港口。因此，該項目隨之而來——它實際上是基於將商品運輸到該港口的合同。

So if we can get a contract for 1 year or 2 years or 3 years for this commodity business, because we're doing this stevedoring on the discharge port or the stevedoring on the low port, then that adds consistency to the whole business. We put together the contract, carry the goods along with the stevedoring. So we're not dependent on market fluctuations so much. That's why we think it's more consistent.

因此，如果我們能為這項商品業務獲得 1 年或 2 年或 3 年的合同，因為我們在卸貨港或低港進行裝卸，那麼這會增加整個業務的一致性。我們把合同放在一起，把貨物和裝卸一起搬運。所以我們不太依賴市場波動。這就是為什麼我們認為它更一致。

And just one comment, Poe. We're not looking to create something that is like that operate totally independent from each other, right? The broad offering actually depend on each other for the maximum milestone, right? Stevedoring alone, without any activity on our own ships sort of derived from that, that is not coming that will generate comparable returns to buying a bulk carrier, for instance, right? But the combination is really powerful and drives higher margin and much more meaningful relationships that you find, especially in the shipping market.

只有一個評論，Poe。我們不打算創造一種完全獨立於彼此運作的東西，對吧？廣泛的產品實際上相互依賴以獲得最大的里程碑，對嗎？單獨裝卸，沒有在我們自己的船上進行任何活動，這不會產生與購買散貨船相當的回報，例如，對嗎？但這種結合真的很強大，可以帶來更高的利潤和你發現的更有意義的關係，尤其是在航運市場。

It's a way to operate and create a niche for yourself. It's not different approach to it and now, you know, it's not different from our Ice-Class business, for instance. It's the same idea, just a different way of getting to the same end result of a more -- of offering a more comprehensive service that is of higher value to the customer than just moving stuff from A to B and not really thinking about what happens before.

這是一種為自己經營和創造利基市場的方式。這不是不同的方法，現在，你知道，它與我們的 Ice-Class 業務沒有什麼不同。這是相同的想法，只是獲得更多相同最終結果的不同方式——提供更全面的服務，為客戶提供更高價值的服務，而不是僅僅將東西從 A 轉移到 B 而沒有真正考慮會發生什麼前。

It appears that we have no further questions at this time. I will turn the program back over to Mark Filanowski for any additional or closing remarks.

看來我們現在沒有其他問題了。我會將程序轉回給 Mark Filanowski 以徵求任何補充或結束語。

Once again, thank you for joining our call. Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact us at investors@pangaeals.com, and a member of our team will follow up with you. This concludes our call today. You may now disconnect.

再次感謝您加入我們的電話會議。如果您有任何疑問，請隨時通過 investors@pangaeals.com 與我們聯繫，我們的團隊成員將與您聯繫。我們今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連接。

That concludes today's teleconference. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。