Blue Owl Capital Inc (OWL) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Blue Owl Capital's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) I'd like to advise all parties that this conference call is being recorded. Thank you.

早安，歡迎參加 Blue Owl Capital 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。（操作員指示）我想通知所有人，本次電話會議正在錄音。謝謝。

I will now the call over to Ann Dai, Head of Investor Relations for Blue Owl. Please go ahead.

現在我將電話轉給 Blue Owl 投資者關係主管 Ann Dai。請繼續。

Thanks, operator, and good morning to everyone. Joining me today are Mark Lipschultz, our Co-Chief Executive Officer; and Alan Kirshenbaum, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝接線員，大家早安。今天與我一起出席的還有我們的聯合執行長 Mark Lipschultz；以及我們的財務長 Alan Kirshenbaum。

I'd like to remind our listeners that remarks made during the call may contain forward-looking statements, which are not a guarantee of future performance or results and involve a number of risks and uncertainties that are outside the company's control. Actual results may differ materially from those in forward-looking statements as a result of a number of factors, including those described from time to time in Blue Owl Capital's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The company assumes no obligation to update any forward-looking statement.

我想提醒我們的聽眾，電話會議中的言論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述並不能保證未來的業績或結果，並且涉及許多公司無法控制的風險和不確定性。由於多種因素，包括 Blue Owl Capital 不時向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所述的因素，實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異。該公司不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

We'd also like to remind everyone that we'll refer to non-GAAP measures on the call, which are reconciled to GAAP figures in our earnings presentation, available on the Shareholders section of our website at blueowl.com. Please note that nothing on this call constitutes an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to purchase an interest in any Blue Owl fund. This morning, we issued our financial results for the fourth quarter of 2024, reporting fee-related earnings, or FRE of $0.23 per share and distributable earnings or DE of $0.21 per share.

我們也想提醒大家，我們將在電話會議上參考非 GAAP 指標，這些指標與我們收益報告中的 GAAP 數據相協調，可在我們網站 blueowl.com 的股東部分查閱。請注意，本次電話會議中的內容並不構成出售要約或購買任何 Blue Owl 基金權益的要約邀請。今天上午，我們發布了 2024 年第四季度的財務業績，報告費用相關收益或 FRE 為每股 0.23 美元，可分配收益或 DE 為每股 0.21 美元。

For the full year 2024, we reported FRE of $0.86 per share and DE of $0.77 per share. We declared a dividend of $0.18 per share for the fourth quarter, payable on February 28 to holders of record as of February 19. And we also announced an annual fixed dividend of $0.90 for 2025 or $0.225 per quarter, starting with our first quarter 2025 earnings, up 25% from the prior year. During the call today, we'll be referring to the earnings presentation, which we posted to our website this morning. So please have that on hand to follow along.

對於 2024 年全年，我們報告的 FRE 為每股 0.86 美元，DE 為每股 0.77 美元。我們宣布第四季每股股息為 0.18 美元，將於 2 月 28 日支付給 2 月 19 日登記在冊的股東。我們還宣布，從 2025 年第一季收益開始，2025 年年度固定股息為 0.90 美元或每季 0.225 美元，比上一年增長 25%。在今天的電話會議中，我們將參考今天早上發佈到我們網站上的收益報告。因此請準備好該資訊以便後續跟進。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Marc.

說到這裡，我想把電話轉給馬克。

Great. Thank you so much, Ann. We capped off a highly successful year for Blue all with a record quarter of fundraising, reflecting the ongoing diversification of our business and high levels of investor interest in our differentiated products. This brings our total equity raise in 2024 to $27.5 billion, about 75% higher than 2023. And including debt, we raised over $47 billion, also a record for us. On top of our robust fundraising, we deployed substantial amounts of capital across the business, including a record $52 billion gross deployment and credit, driving 26% FRE growth for the year.

偉大的。非常感謝，安。我們以創紀錄的季度融資額為 Blue 取得了巨大的成功，這反映了我們業務的持續多元化以及投資者對我們差異化產品的高度興趣。這使得我們 2024 年的總股本籌集達到 275 億美元，比 2023 年高出約 75%。如果包括債務在內，我們籌集的資金超過 470 億美元，這對我們來說也創下了紀錄。除了強勁的融資之外，我們還在整個業務範圍內部署了大量資本，包括創紀錄的 520 億美元的總部署和信貸，推動全年 FRE 成長 26%。

Taking a step back, we have now grown FRE at least 25% each year since we've been public, despite highly inflationary periods, geopolitical events rate volatility and a significant slowdown in capital markets. To us, this has been an incredible test of the durability of our business and the power of permanent capital. We've had a very active year across the business with some simple themes that find our [irect] traffic, innovation, diversification and scale. And thinking about what we've accomplished this year; I'd like to call out a few highlights that exemplify these themes.

回顧一下，自上市以來，儘管經歷了高通膨時期、地緣政治事件導致的波動以及資本市場的大幅放緩，我們的 FRE 每年仍以至少 25% 的速度增長。對我們來說，這是對我們業務持久力和永久資本力量的極大考驗。我們整個業務度過了非常活躍的一年，有一些簡單的主題，包括我們的[直接]流量、創新、多樣化和規模。想想我們今年所取得的成就；我想列舉幾個體現這些主題的亮點。

On innovation, we've been very aligned with the ongoing evolution of the alternatives industry, focused on asset classes such as direct lending and GP stakes that have expanded to meet the financing needs of the private markets. Net lease has followed a similar trajectory becoming a truly institutional category. All of these market opportunities have significant runway ahead of it, and we expect to meaningfully participate in that growth given our leadership positions in each area.

在創新方面，我們緊跟著另類投資產業的持續發展，專注於直接貸款和 GP 股權等資產類別，以滿足私募市場的融資需求。淨租賃也遵循了類似的軌跡，成為一個真正的機構類別。所有這些市場機會都有著巨大的發展空間，憑藉我們在每個領域的領導地位，我們希望能夠有效地參與這一成長。

And thinking about where the puck is going next, we have made strategically important acquisitions in markets with growing capital needs, namely alternative credit and digital infrastructure. We've also expanded our insurance capabilities to deliver a more holistic solution in that market. And we brought on a real estate credit manager with an incredible 30-year record to take advantage of the disintermediation we're seeing there.

考慮到冰球的下一步發展方向，我們在資本需求不斷增長的市場進行了具有戰略意義的收購，即替代信貸和數位基礎設施。我們還擴展了我們的保險能力，為該市場提供更全面的解決方案。我們聘請了一位擁有 30 年豐富經驗的房地產信貸經理，以充分利用我們所看到的非中介化現象。

It's clear to us that private solutions providers are going to take an increasingly larger role in the financing of all of these markets. We plan to meet these opportunities head on with differentiated strategies, product innovation, and best-in-class market leaders that have invested in these asset classes for decades. On diversification, it's apparent even in our 2024 results, how much more diversified our business is today than a couple of years ago. This diversification spans investment capabilities, sources of capital and geographic footprint. Looking ahead, we see tremendous growth for both the newer businesses under our umbrella and our existing capabilities.

我們清楚地看到，私人解決方案提供者將在所有這些市場的融資中發揮越來越大的作用。我們計劃透過差異化策略、產品創新以及幾十年來一直在這些資產類別中進行投資的一流市場領導者來迎接這些機會。在多元化方面，即使在我們 2024 年的業績中也可以明顯看出，今天的業務比幾年前更加多元化。這種多樣化涵蓋投資能力、資金來源和地理分佈。展望未來，我們看到我們旗下的新業務和現有業務都實現了巨大的成長。

We plan to continue expanding our global distribution while introducing new strategies and product structures that further strengthen Blue Owl's value proposition for institutional, private wealth and insurance clients. On scale, we ended the year at $0.25 trillion of AUM and pro forma for the acquisition of IPI, which closed on January 3, we now have $265 billion of AUM. Over the past decade, we have seen the largest managers consolidate market share in the alternatives industry. We expect this trend to continue for the next decade, and we fully expect to be one of those consolidated managers.

我們計劃繼續擴大我們的全球分銷，同時推出新的策略和產品結構，進一步加強 Blue Owl 針對機構、私人財富和保險客戶的價值主張。從規模來看，今年年底我們的資產管理規模為 0.25 兆美元，而對於 1 月 3 日完成的 IPI 收購，我們的資產管理規模目前為 2,650 億美元。在過去十年中，我們看到最大的管理者鞏固了另類投資產業的市場份額。我們預計這種趨勢將在未來十年持續下去，並且我們完全希望成為那些整合的管理者之一。

With the full suite of capabilities we have today and our scale permanent capital, we're able to create even more of the bespoke solutions that counterparties are looking for further positioning ourselves to be the first call. And subsequent to year-end, we closed the merger of [DC and BDE,] our publicly traded diversified lending BDCs, resulting in the second largest publicly traded BDC with assets under management of about $21.5 billion.

憑藉我們今天擁有的全套能力和規模永久資本，我們能夠創建更多交易對手所尋求的客製化解決方案，進一步將我們自己定位為第一選擇。年底之後，我們完成了 [DC 和 BDE] 的合併，它們是我們的公開交易多元化貸款 BDC，從而成為了第二大公開交易 BDC，管理的資產約為 215 億美元。

We're also working towards the proposed merger of ORTT and ORTF II. Once merged and listed, we expect to have the largest technology-focused BDC in the markets. Zeroing in on the fourth quarter. We had our highest quarter fundraising with $9.5 billion of equity capital raised and over $18 billion, including debt raise. Private well put raising remained very strong at nearly $4 billion, driven by our perpetually distributed products and fundraise for GP stake.

我們也正在致力於 ORTT 和 ORTF II 的擬議合併。一旦合併並上市，我們預計將擁有市場上最大的以技術為中心的 BDC。聚焦第四季。我們本季的籌資額最高，共籌集了 95 億美元的股本資金，如果包括債務融資在內，則籌集的資金超過 180 億美元。在我們永久分銷的產品和 GP 股權融資的推動下，私募股權融資保持強勁，達到近 40 億美元。

For the year, Private Wealth drove over $13.5 billion of equity commitments, an increase of 50% year-over-year. And we are excited about what 2025 will bring with an alternative credit product launching shortly and currency-specific solutions coming for CIC and OEP, in addition to the ongoing cross-selling and expansion on existing platforms. We had our highest quarter of fundraising in our institutional channel, raising $5.6 billion across a variety of strategies, including a number of mandates within credit, large-cap and mid-cap GP stakes, insurance solutions and real assets. For the year, institutional fundraising drove half of total capital raised and has doubled from the prior year.

今年，私人財富基金的股權承諾超過 135 億美元，年增 50%。我們對 2025 年將帶來的變化感到興奮，除了持續的交叉銷售和現有平台的擴展之外，我們還將推出替代信貸產品和針對 CIC 和 OEP 的特定貨幣解決方案。我們的機構管道籌資額創下了歷史新高，透過多種策略籌集了 56 億美元，包括信貸、大盤股和中盤股 GP 股權、保險解決方案和實體資產等領域的多項授權。今年，機構融資佔總融資額的一半，比前一年增加了一倍。

As of this week, we're approaching $1 billion committed for our European net lease strategy headed towards our $1.5 billion hard cap, and we are also approaching $1 billion of capital committed to our GP-led continuation strategy. Our fourth quarter results reflect the impact to both organic new product development and recent acquisitions are happening on the range of fund rates in across Blue as, and we see much more to come ahead. The over $47 billion we have raised organically across equity and debt over the past 12 months is equivalent to 29% of our AUM a year ago.

截至本週，我們用於歐洲淨租賃策略的資金承諾已接近 10 億美元，並將達到 15 億美元的硬上限，而且我們用於 GP 主導的延續策略的資金承諾也接近 10 億美元。我們的第四季業績反映了有機新產品開發和近期收購對 Blue as 整個基金利率範圍的影響，我們預計未來還會有更多影響。過去 12 個月我們透過股權和債務方式自然籌集了超過 470 億美元，相當於一年前 AUM 的 29%。

Now, turning to business performance. In credit, we had another solid quarter of deployment. Specifically for direct lending, gross and net originations were over $13 billion and $2 billion for the quarter, reflecting a high level of repayments and refinancings that stayed within our system.

現在，談談業務績效。在信貸方面，我們又度過了一個穩健的季度。具體來說，就直接貸款而言，本季的總發放金額和淨發放金額分別超過 130 億美元和 20 億美元，反映出我們系統內的還款和再融資水準較高。

Taking a step back, consider the environment we've been in this past year. The CLO market returned in full force at the beginning of 2024, supports historically high levels of broadly syndicated market activity, driven by refinances. In the midst of that environment, we deployed nearly $52 billion on a gross basis and $16.6 billion on a net basis in 2024. So even in a tepid M&A market, with active broadly syndicated markets competing, we doubled net deployment year-over-year.

退一步來看，思考我們過去一年所處的環境。2024 年初，CLO 市場全面回歸，在再融資的推動下，支撐了歷史性高水準的廣泛銀團市場活動。在這種環境下，我們在 2024 年部署了近 520 億美元（總額）和 166 億美元的淨額。因此，即使在不溫不火的併購市場中，在活躍的廣泛聯合市場競爭中，我們的淨部署量仍然比去年同期翻了一番。

And I think it's a great demonstration of the power of scale and incumbency coming together to drive strong origination outcomes for the investors in our products. Credit quality metrics and direct lending continued to reinforce the strength of our underwriting. On average, underlying revenue and EBITDA growth was high single digits across the portfolio with no significant step-ups in nonaccruals or amendment requests, and or at 11 basis point average annual realized loss rate.

我認為這很好地體現了規模和在職人員的力量，共同推動我們產品的投資者獲得強勁的發起成果。信用品質指標和直接貸款繼續增強我們的承保實力。平均而言，整個投資組合的基礎收入和 EBITDA 成長率均為高個位數，未提列或修改請求沒有顯著增加，平均年實現損失率為 11 個基點。

As for the alternative credit, the team is already well integrated and working with direct lending and ensured solutions on transactions. Having completed several deals that bring together the sourcing and execution capabilities of our combined credit platform. During the fourth quarter, we announced a sizable forward flow agreement with Upstart and have subsequently seen significant demand from large lending platforms looking to partner with us as a source of stable capital.

至於替代信貸，該團隊已經很好地整合並致力於直接貸款和確保交易的解決方案。我們已經完成了幾筆交易，將我們的綜合信貸平台的採購和執行能力整合在一起。在第四季度，我們宣布與 Upstart 達成了一項規模可觀的遠期流動協議，隨後大型借貸平台對與我們合作作為穩定資本來源的需求巨大。

More broadly, we view the additional alternative credit as a strategically important expansion of our credit capabilities, focused on lending to Main Street segments such as consumer spending, small business borrowing, and residential finance. These complement the corporate leaning of our direct lending businesses very nicely. Not only are the Main Street opportunity set is very significant in their own right. But having a scaled alternative credit capability under the umbrella sharpens our 30,000-foot view of the broader credit marketplace, enhancing outcomes for investors across the board.

更廣泛地說，我們將額外的替代信貸視為我們信貸能力的具有戰略意義的擴展，重點是向消費者支出、小型企業借貸和住宅融資等主要街道領域提供貸款。這些很好地補充了我們直接貸款業務的企業傾向。主街機會集本身不僅非常重要。但擁有規模化的替代信貸能力，讓我們能夠從更廣闊的角度看待信貸市場，從而全面提高投資者的收益。

Finally, we're making great progress towards launching a new alternative credit product for both the wealth and institutional markets and look forward to providing an update in coming quarters. In GP stakes, 2024 was a year that proved out our long-standing thesis and the largest and most diversified managers are best suited to navigate and thrive in this next stage of the alternatives industry. Over the past year, the AUM of our partner managers increased by approximately 11%, and we continue to see significant interest for managers looking to source growth capital for their businesses to better position themselves in a market landscape that favors scale.

最後，我們在為財富和機構市場推出新的替代信貸產品方面取得了重大進展，並期待在未來幾季提供最新進展。在 GP 股權中，2024 年證明了我們長期以來的論點，規模最大、最多元化的管理者最適合在另類投資行業的下一階段中導航和發展。在過去的一年裡，我們的合夥人經理的 AUM 增加了約 11%，我們繼續看到經理們對為其業務尋找成長資本的興趣濃厚，以便在有利於規模的市場環境中更好地定位自己。

As we mentioned in our last earnings call, we completed two strip sales for 13 during the third and fourth quarters. returning significant capital to our LPs and bringing new investors into the strategy. These sales generated $1.4 billion of gross proceeds at a 4.1 times gross multiple on invested capital, 2.7 times net. Between the strip sales, other opportunistic liquidity events and regular distributions for partner manager earnings from our flagship products, we distributed $2.4 billion GPs take fund investors in 2024 during a period where many GPs struggled to provide liquidity to their LPs. It is not only benefits the current investors in our strategy to provide an excellent case study for prospective investors.

正如我們在上次收益電話會議上提到的那樣，我們在第三季和第四季完成了 13 條帶的兩次銷售。向我們的 LP 返還大量資本，並將新的投資者引入該策略。這些銷售產生了 14 億美元的總收益，總收益為投資資本的 4.1 倍，淨收益為 2.7 倍。透過剝離銷售、其他機會性流動性事件以及我們旗艦產品的合夥人經理收益的定期分配，我們在 2024 年向 GP 分配了 24 億美元的基金投資者，而當時許多 GP 都在努力為其 LP 提供流動性。我們的策略不僅使目前的投資者受益，也為潛在投資者提供了優秀的案例研究。

In real assets, we continue to actively deploy across our (inaudible), our non-traded REIT and now real estate credit. In net lease, we are over 75% committed on six at year-end after having just completed fundraising in the first quarter of 2024. This sets us up extremely well to be back in the market in 2025. Market dynamics in the net lease market remain fairly unchanged for us as we utilize our scale and proprietary relationships to drive premium cap rates and monetize a meaningful spread.

在實體資產方面，我們繼續積極部署我們的（聽不清楚）、非交易房地產投資信託基金 (REIT) 以及現在的房地產信貸。在淨租賃方面，我們在 2024 年第一季剛完成融資後，年底的承諾率已超過 75%。這為我們在 2025 年重返市場做好了充分準備。由於我們利用規模和專有關係來推動溢價資本化率並將有意義的利差貨幣化，因此淨租賃市場的市場動態對我們來說保持基本不變。

During the fourth quarter, we deployed nearly $4 billion of capital, bringing full year deployment to over $7.5 billion at an average 8% cap rate. Concurrently, we monetized over $0.5 billion during 2024 at an average 5.9% cap rate, reflecting incredible spread capture. As we look at the quarter and into the first half of 2025, we have a number of new products and structures to talk about, underscoring the ongoing diversification of real assets.

第四季度，我們部署了近 40 億美元的資本，使全年部署額超過 75 億美元，平均資本化率為 8%。同時，我們在 2024 年以平均 5.9% 的資本化率實現了超過 5 億美元的貨幣化，反映出令人難以置信的利差捕獲。展望本季及 2025 年上半年，我們有許多新產品和新結構需要討論，凸顯了實體資產的持續多樣化。

For instance, we raised over $0.5 billion during the fourth quarter, for our European net lease strategy, which is now approaching our $1 billion target and well on our way to the $1.5 billion hard cap. On top of that, we anticipate a co-mingled real estate credit product to be launched in the first half of the year. And of course, the IPI acquisition closed on January 3, adding more than $14 billion of AUM on a pro forma basis. This figure reflects an incremental $3.3 billion raised during the fourth quarter prior to the closing of the transaction.

例如，我們在第四季度為歐洲淨租賃策略籌集了超過 5 億美元，目前該策略已接近 10 億美元的目標，並且預計將達到 15 億美元的硬上限。除此之外，我們預計今年上半年將推出混合式房地產信貸產品。當然，IPI 收購已於 1 月 3 日完成，以備考基礎計算增加了超過 140 億美元的 AUM。該數字反映了交易結束前第四季籌集的增量為 33 億美元。

Since the transaction announcement, AUM has already increased 35%, driven primarily by capital raising. We expect to finish up the current vintage of our flagship digital infrastructure fund at the hard cap of $7 billion in short order, and we are very excited to show the market what we can do with this business. In fact, you'll hear more about our plans tomorrow at Investor Day.

自交易公告發布以來，AUM 已增加 35%，主要得益於融資。我們預計，我們的旗艦數位基礎設施基金將在短時間內達到 70 億美元的硬上限，我們非常高興向市場展示我們能透過這項業務做些什麼。事實上，您將在明天的投資者日上聽到有關我們計劃的更多內容。

Bringing it all together, we're highly confident in how Blue Owl is positioned for the future. There's a lot more to say on this front, but I think we'll save that for Investor Day. We're looking forward to seeing you in person or on the webcast. And I think it will be a very illuminating and educational morning as we lay out our five-year strategic plan for Blue Owl and show you the chessboard, we have in front of us.

綜合以上所有因素，我們對 Blue Owl 的未來定位充滿信心。關於這方面還有很多話要說，但我想我們會把它留到投資者日再說。我們期待與您親自見面或在網路直播中見到您。我認為這將是一個富有啟發性和教育意義的早晨，因為我們將製定 Blue Owl 的五年戰略計劃並向大家展示我們面前的棋盤。

With that, let me turn it to Alan to discuss our financial results.

接下來，讓我與艾倫討論一下我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Marc, and good morning, everyone. We're ending 2024 on a strong note with over $0.25 trillion of assets under management, our 15th consecutive quarter of management fee and FRE growth and a record fundraising quarter for the firm.

謝謝你，馬克，大家早安。我們將以強勁的業績結束 2024 年，管理資產超過 0.25 兆美元，管理費和 FRE 連續 15 個季度成長，並創下公司籌資紀錄。

Some additional highlights for the year include management fees up 30% and 91% of these management fees are from permanent capital vehicles. FRE up 26% and DE up 22%. And as you can see on slide 12, we raised $9.5 billion of equity in the fourth quarter and $27.5 billion in 2024, an increase of 74% from the prior year. And inclusive of debt, we raised $47.5 billion in 2024.

今年的其他亮點包括管理費上漲 30%，其中 91% 的管理費來自永久資本工具。FRE 上漲 26%，DE 上漲 22%。正如您在第 12 頁上看到的，我們在第四季度籌集了 95 億美元的股權，到 2024 年將籌集 275 億美元，比上一年增長了 74%。如果包括債務在內，我們在 2024 年籌集了 475 億美元。

To help break down the fourth quarter fundraising numbers across our strategies and products, in credit, we raised $4.3 billion, $3.1 billion was raised in our direct lending strategies, of which $1.7 billion came from our non-traded BDCs, OTIC and OTC. We also closed on approximately $1.4 billion across SMAs and ODL, our institutional Evergreen product. The remainder was raised across investment-grade credit, alternative credit and our GP-led secondary strategy.

為了幫助細分我們各項策略和產品的第四季度籌款數字，在信貸方面，我們籌集了 43 億美元，其中 31 億美元來自我們的直接貸款策略，其中 17 億美元來自我們的非交易 BDC、OTIC 和 OTC。我們也透過 SMA 和 ODL（我們的機構 Evergreen 產品）完成了約 14 億美元的交易。其餘資金來自投資級信貸、替代信貸和我們 GP 主導的二級策略。

Overall, for the year, in credit, we raised $13.9 billion, including $7.3 billion in our dedicated wealth products, OCIC, and OCI. In GP strategic capital, we raised $3.2 billion during the quarter, including another $1.7 billion for our large-cap strategy, bringing the latest visits to $7 billion.

總體而言，今年我們在信貸方面籌集了 139 億美元，其中包括專用財富產品 OCIC 和 OCI 的 73 億美元。在 GP 戰略資本方面，我們在本季籌集了 32 億美元，其中包括為大盤股策略籌集的 17 億美元，使最新訪問金額達到 70 億美元。

We've always expected the fundraise here to be somewhat back-ended, which means, overall, we're a little ahead of where we thought we would be with our $13 billion target. I would continue to assume more fundraising comes in back ended this year than straight line. We also held a second close for our mid-cap strategy, bringing it up to $1 billion raised to date. And in Real Assets, we raised $1.9 billion primarily from Orent, European net lease, and SMA and insurance solutions.

我們一直預計這裡的籌款會有些後端，這意味著，總的來說，我們比我們預期的 130 億美元的目標略有領先。我仍認為，今年後期籌集的資金將比直線籌集的資金更多。我們也對中型股策略進行了第二次收盤，迄今為止籌集的資金已達 10 億美元。在實體資產方面，我們主要從 Orent、歐洲淨租賃以及 SMA 和保險解決方案籌集了 19 億美元。

As Marc mentioned earlier, we are approaching $1 billion raised for our European net lease (inaudible). Overall, for the year, in real assets, we raised $4.9 billion, including $2.5 billion in our dedicated wealth product program ORENT, in which we expect to see an increase to the $2.5 billion level for -- we've mentioned the ongoing breadth and diversification of fundraising, and this quarter is another great example of the power of our organic growth engine.

正如馬克之前提到的，我們為歐洲淨租賃籌集的資金接近 10 億美元（聽不清楚）。總體而言，今年我們在實體資產方面籌集了 49 億美元，其中包括專用財富產品計劃 ORENT 的 25 億美元，我們預計該計劃的資金將增至 25 億美元——我們已經提到了籌資的持續廣度和多樣性，本季度是我們有機增長引擎強大力量的另一個很好的例子。

We generated robust flows from our established direct lending, QPC and net lease products while approaching the $1 billion mark for three new strategies: European net lease, our GP-led secondary strategy and our mid-cap GP stake strategy. Over 30% of our capital raise in the fourth quarter came from products which did not exist or were not part of our platform a year ago. We're very proud of the progress we have made in expanding Blue Owl suite of capabilities, and we'll have a lot more to talk about regarding the diversification of our business tomorrow at Investor Day.

我們從現有的直接貸款、QPC 和淨租賃產品中產生了強勁的資金流，同時三項新戰略的資金流接近 10 億美元大關：歐洲淨租賃、我們的 GP 主導的二級戰略和我們的中型股 GP 股權戰略。我們第四季籌集的資金中有超過 30% 來自一年前尚不存在或不屬於我們平台的產品。我們對擴展 Blue Owl 功能套件所取得的進展感到非常自豪，明天的投資者日我們將就業務多元化進行更多討論。

We continue to have high levels of visibility on earnings growth with substantial embedded earnings driven by future deployment and a listing of our software lending DC -- not yet paying fees was $22.6 billion as of the end of the fourth quarter, corresponding to over $300 million of incremental annual management fees once deployed. This number has increased from $14.5 billion this time last year, reflecting robust fundraising and products that earn fees upon the plan.

我們繼續保持較高的獲利成長可見度，其中大量內含獲利是由未來部署和軟體借貸DC上市推動的——截至第四季末尚未支付費用的金額為226億美元，相當於部署後每年超過3億美元的增量管理費。這一數字較去年同期的 145 億美元有所增加，反映出強勁的融資勢頭以及依靠該計劃賺取費用的產品。

Upon the listing of our software lending BDC we have approximately $135 million of incremental management fees that will turn on. These two items alone would represent an increase in management fees of nearly $450 million or 20%-plus growth from our 2024 management fee. These aspects combined with our business model of being virtually all permanent capital and 100% FRE, just gives us a higher quality of earnings than any of our peers in the industry.

我們的軟體借貸 BDC 上市後，我們將開始收取約 1.35 億美元的增量管理費。光是這兩項就將意味著管理費增加近 4.5 億美元，比我們 2024 年的管理費增加 20% 以上。這些方面加上我們幾乎全部是永久資本和 100% FRE 的業務模式，使我們的盈利品質比業內任何同行都要高。

Focusing now on our credit platform. Our credit portfolio gross returns were 3.1% in the fourth quarter and 13.9% over the last 12 months. Weighted average LTVs remain in the high 30s across direct lending and in the low 30s specifically in our software lending portfolio. As Marc mentioned earlier, our overall portfolio continues to perform extremely well.

現在重點關注我們的信用平台。我們的信貸組合總回報率在第四季度為 3.1%，在過去 12 個月為 13.9%。直接貸款的加權平均 LTV 仍保持在 30% 的高位，而我們的軟體貸款組合的加權平均 LTV 則保持在 30% 的低位。正如馬克之前提到的，我們的整體投資組合繼續表現優異。

For our GP strategic capital platform, total invested capital for our fifth GP stakes fund, including agreements in principle or over $11.6 billion of capital, with line of sight into over $4 billion of opportunities, which if all our signs would bring us well through the remaining capital available in fun. Performance across these funds remained strong with a net IRR of 22% for Fund III, 39% for Fund IV and 19% for FUND V. And in Real Assets, we continue to deploy meaningful amounts of capital in our latest net lease drawdown funds, which is over 75% committed.

對於我們的 GP 策略資本平台，我們第五個 GP 股權基金的總投資資本，包括原則上協議或超過 116 億美元的資本，以及超過 40 億美元的機會，如果我們所有的跡像都表明，這些機會將使我們很好地利用剩餘的可用資本。這些基金的表現依然強勁，基金 III 的淨內部報酬率為 22%，基金 IV 為 39%，基金 V 為 19%。在實體資產方面，我們繼續在最新的淨租賃提取基金中投入大量資金，承諾金額已超過 75%。

Even with robust deployments, our net lease pipeline continues to grow with approximately $34 billion of transaction volume under letter of intent or contracted close. With regards to performance, gross returns across our real estate portfolio was flat for the fourth quarter and 4% for the last 12 months and continues to compare very favorably to the broader real estate market over this time period. The net IRR across our fully realized net lease funds has been 24% for investment grade and creditworthy tenants, reflecting the favorable value creation driven by our scale and solutions-based partnerships.

即使部署強勁，我們的淨租賃管道仍在持續成長，意向書或合約成交額約為 340 億美元。就業成績而言，我們房地產投資組合的總回報率在第四季度持平，在過去 12 個月為 4%，並且與同期的整體房地產市場相比仍然非常有利。對於投資等級和信用良好的租戶，我們完全實現的淨租賃資金的淨 IRR 為 24%，反映了我們的規模和基於解決方案的合作夥伴關係所推動的有利價值創造。

Let's wrap up with a few remaining items to come. On our effective tax rate, we ended the year at just under 4%, in line with where we guided everyone to at the beginning of this past year. For 2025, you can expect an effective tax rate in the mid- to high single digits. And for the few years beyond, you should see our effective tax rate increased a little bit each year, maybe a few percent per year. So overall, the story here remains the same. You should expect our effective tax rate to be lower for loans.

讓我們總結一下接​​下來要討論的幾個剩餘事項。就我們的有效稅率而言，今年年底我們的有效稅率略低於 4%，與我們去年年初為大家指引的稅率一致。到 2025 年，預計有效稅率將達到中高個位數。在接下來的幾年裡，你會看到我們的實際稅率每年都會增加一點，可能每年增加幾個百分點。總的來說，這裡的故事仍然是一樣的。您應該預期我們的貸款實際稅率會較低。

As a reminder, we pay our tax receivable agreement out during the first quarter to expect a higher level for the first quarter of 2025. This is the same timetable as in 2024, higher effective tax rate in the first quarter and much lower for the second, third and fourth quarter.

提醒一下，我們在第一季支付了應收稅款協議，預計 2025 年第一季的水平會更高。這與 2024 年的時間表相同，第一季的有效稅率較高，而第二、第三和第四季的有效稅率則低得多。

As we announced earlier, our dividend for 2025 is $0.90 per share. We are very pleased with our 2024 results, our industry-leading growth and how we built a differentiated business, a steady, consistent, predictable cash flowing business that will continue to pay the bulk of our earnings out in dividends.

正如我們之前宣布的那樣，我們 2025 年的股息為每股 0.90 美元。我們對 2024 年的業績、我們行業領先的成長以及我們如何建立差異化業務、穩定、一致、可預測的現金流業務感到非常滿意，該業務將繼續以股息形式支付我們的大部分收益。

As a final note, from the entire management team here at Blue Owl, it's been an extremely successful few years, and we're very proud of what we've accomplished for our shareholders. At our Investor Day tomorrow, we're looking forward to laying out what we think is a very achievable path for continuing to lead our industry with robust long-term growth. We look forward to seeing you in the audience or on the webcast.

最後要說的是，Blue Owl 的整個管理團隊都表示，過去的幾年非常成功，我們為股東的成就感到非常自豪。在明天的投資者日上，我們期待闡述我們認為的一條非常可行的道路，以繼續引領我們的行業實現長期的強勁增長。我們期待在觀眾席或網路直播中見到您。

Operator, can we please open the line for questions.

接線員，請我們開通熱線來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Glenn Schorr, Evercore ISI.

（操作員指示）Glenn Schorr，Evercore ISI。

Maybe I'll ask on gross to net deployment, probably not the number you want it to be, but I'm curious how much you focus on that in credit in any given quarter? And do you think that's a function of the deal environment? Or does that say something about the attractiveness of deals out there? Just curious how we should look at that.

也許我會問一下總部署與淨部署的比例，可能不是您想要的數字，但我很好奇您在任何特定季度的信貸中有多關注這一點？您認為這是交易環境的作用嗎？或者這說明了交易的吸引力？只是好奇我們該如何看待這一點。

Yes. Thanks for the question, and great to have a chat with you this morning. So gross to net has a couple of dimensions to it. So look, the one observable fact is the net deployment, of course, relates to getting new dollars to work.

是的。感謝您的提問，很高興今天上午與您聊天。因此，毛利到淨利有幾個維度。所以看，一個可觀察到的事實是淨部署當然與獲取新資金有關。

But I guess I'd start with this. The incredibly active, both gross and ultimately net year in total. I would take as a sign of great strength. I mean this was a very tepid M&A year. And so when you think about how much we -- what activity we had in a year that was both low on M&A but with a very open syndicated market, I actually foretells of very good things to come in 2025 as we see the M&A market turn active again.

但我想我應該從這個開始。這是極為活躍的一年，無論是總收入還是淨收入。我會將其視為強大力量的象徵。我的意思是，這是併購活動非常不景氣的一年。因此，當您考慮到我們在併購活動較少但銀團市場非常開放的一年中開展的活動時，我實際上預測 2025 年將會出現非常好的情況，因為我們會看到併購市場再次活躍起來。

Again, we're always all waiting for dam to break, and I'm not here to call the time it will happen. But clearly, there's already been an uptick in M&A pipeline and activities, compression of bids and asks. So I think we're like many people, pretty optimistic that 2025 will be a more favorable M&A environment. So I start with actually it's a pretty interesting baseline year because our most active overall origination year in a macro setting, you would not consider good for direct lending.

再說一遍，我們都在等待大壩垮塌，而我現在並不是來預測它何時會發生的。但顯然，併購通路和活動已經增加，買賣價差也有所壓縮。因此我認為，我們和許多人一樣，非常樂觀地認為 2025 年的併購環境將會更有利。因此，我首先要說的是，這實際上是一個非常有趣的基準年，因為從宏觀角度來看，這是我們最活躍的整體發起年，但你不會認為這對直接貸款有利。

Now, the gross to net itself has two dimensions. It's actually a really good news from the point of view of credit and it's really good news from the point of view of the power of incumbency because what you're seeing in gross to net often is obviously, as you know, is refinancings of credit facilities that were done some time ago. And so what we ended up getting to do, of course, is we look at the credit and redecide if we still want to own it. So it's really kind of a credit enhancing exercise, number one.

現在，毛利到淨利本身就有兩個維度。從信貸的角度來看，這實際上是一個非常好的消息，從掌權者的角度來看，這也是一個非常好的消息，因為正如你所知，你經常看到的總額與淨額的比率顯然是對一段時間前完成的信貸安排的再融資。因此，我們最終要做的當然是審視信貸並重新決定是否仍然擁有它。因此，首先，這實際上是一種增強信用的做法。

Number two, speaks a lot to the power of incumbency, which is a huge advantage we have just a couple of others have, which is once these loans are in our system, they often stay with us. And I think that also is positive. So when we look at it, I have to say we don't look at a like a large gross loan net as a problem. We look at it as a set of data in context, obviously, we want some quarters that have big net. But we love some quarters that have big growth and loan that also.

第二，這在很大程度上說明了在職人員的權力，這是我們比其他少數人擁有的一個巨大的優勢，一旦這些貸款進入我們的系統，它們通常就會留在我們這裡。我認為這也是積極的。因此，當我們審視這個問題時，我不得不說，我們不會將龐大的總貸款淨額視為問題。我們把它看作是上下文中的一組數據，顯然，我們想要一些擁有大淨資產的地區。但我們也喜歡一些成長迅速且貸款額度較大的地區。

So the balance is good. I don't think -- the one thing I would say -- to me, it doesn't reflect anything about some market dynamic change. I think it's exactly what you'd anticipate would happen in a market that is more open and active again, but doesn't have tons of M&A. So people end up focusing on refis as opposed to new things.

因此平衡性很好。我想說的是，我認為，對我來說，它並沒有反映出任何有關市場動態的變化。我認為這正是你所預期的，在一個更開放和活躍，但沒有大量併購的市場中會發生的情況。因此，人們最終關注的是再融資而不是新事物。

Now, eventually run out of refi. So I will say we've Obviously, a lot of companies have done their refi cycle. So odds are we'll start to see that compress in any case.

現在，再融資終於用完了。所以我想說，顯然很多公司已經完成了再融資週期。因此，無論如何，我們都有可能開始看到這種壓縮。

Craig Siegenthaler, Bank of America.

克雷格·西根塔勒，美國銀行。

My question is on organic growth. So you ended the year with strength in the fundraising front, almost $10 billion, a record quarter you've just recently planted seeds through 4 strategic acquisitions, which aren't even close to scale yet. And now the macro backdrop is strengthening. So without stealing too much thunder from your Investor Day tomorrow, what does the fundraising outlook look like for 2025? And maybe you could break apart some of the bigger drivers?

我的問題是關於有機成長。所以你們以籌資實力雄厚結束了這一年，籌資額接近 100 億美元，這是一個創紀錄的季度，你們最近剛剛通過 4 項戰略收購播下了種子，但這些收購還遠未達到規模。目前宏觀背景正在增強。那麼，在不搶走明天投資者日太多風頭的情況下，2025 年的融資前景如何呢？也許你可以分解一些更大的驅動因素？

Sure. Well, I honestly couldn't encapsulate it better than you did. I think the overall take is we have big flagships, we have continued accelerating success in wealth, more platforms, we have some new wealth products. Our alternative credit continuously offered product, which we will be out with in 2025. I think it's going to do very well with, as you know, new acquisitions like data centers, again, we're continuing our flagship which has already been extremely successful, rapidly moving toward its hard cap -- and then we'll be back again with digital infrastructure and continues to outperform in not too distant future.

當然。嗯，老實說，我無法比你更好地概括它。我認為總體而言，我們擁有大型旗艦，我們在財富領域繼續加速取得成功，擁有更多平台，我們擁有一些新的財富產品。我們持續提供替代信貸產品，並將於 2025 年推出。我認為它會做得很好，正如你所知，像資料中心這樣的新收購，再次，我們將繼續我們的旗艦，它已經非常成功，迅速走向它的硬上限 - 然後我們將再次回到數位基礎設施，並在不久的將來繼續表現出色。

And so yes, I think we have a lot more ways to win, frankly, a more probably kind of bullish animal spirited environment. So yes, we go in on a strong foot. And well, I guess we end the year on a strong foot without all those benefits yet and then those coming into play. Maybe Alan, I'll let you comment a little bit about direction of travel from there.

所以是的，我認為我們有更多的方法來贏得勝利，坦白說，更有可能是一種充滿動物精神的看漲環境。是的，我們以強勁勢頭進入。好吧，我想，雖然還沒有獲得那些好處，但我們將以良好的狀態結束這一年，然後這些好處就會發揮作用。也許艾倫，我會讓你對從那裡出發的旅行方向發表一點評論。

Thanks, Craig, for the question. Look, we are, as Mark said, very bullish about what we think we can do in fundraising in '25. Well, obviously, we'll hit a number of aspects of this tomorrow, during Investor Day, and we'll take that out a number of years, not just 2025. But we certainly are expecting a meaningful increase from our level in 2024 when we think about equity fundraise and what we can do in 2025.

謝謝 Craig 提出這個問題。正如馬克所說，我們對 25 年籌款能力非常有信心。嗯，顯然，明天投資者日期間，我們會討論這方面的多個方面，而且我們會討論未來幾年的問題，而不僅僅是 2025 年。但當我們考慮股權融資以及我們在 2025 年可以做的事情時，我們肯定會期望 2024 年的水準會有一個有意義的成長。

Steven Chubak, Wolfe Research.

史蒂文‧丘巴克，沃爾夫研究中心。

So wanted to ask a question on expense. So G&A was up 41% in '24. I recognize merger costs, higher wealth distribution expense, it's going to impact that growth rate. How should we think about the normal growth rate for OpEx, just given plans to continue to lean into retail, but also investing to help scale some of the more nascent strategies in ABS insurance and data centers?

所以想問一個關於費用的問題。因此，24 年的 G&A 費用上漲了 41%。我知道合併成本、更高的財富分配費用都會影響成長率。考慮到繼續向零售業傾斜的計劃，同時也進行投資以幫助擴大 ABS 保險和資料中心中一些較新興的策略，我們應該如何看待營運支出的正常成長率？

So let me -- Steven, I take a crack at sort of the qualitative inputs of that, and then Alan will comment quantitatively. So number one, and you implicitly put your finger on it. Look, we invest in having the best people. We invest in having the best distribution. And our one of our core pillars is excellent. So we're going to do what we're going to do it great. And so sometimes that takes upfront investment. We've never unstated to do it, and we've been able to yield the benefits of it.

所以讓我——史蒂文，我對這種定性輸入進行一些分析，然後艾倫將進行定量評論。所以，第一，你含蓄地指出了這一點。你看，我們投資是為了獲得最優秀的人才。我們投資以獲得最好的分銷。我們的一個核心支柱非常出色。所以我們會盡我們所能，將其做到極致。所以有時需要前期投資。我們從未放棄過要這麼做，我們也已經能夠從中獲益。

With that said, to be specific, we've made a lot of those investments in the groups you've talked about. Acquisitions part of that bulking up those with additional team members adding to our credit platform. So you're indeed already seeing a lot of the investments we made this year in anticipation of the kind of continued very strong growth, like as we just referred to in fundraising and activity we expect in 2025.

話雖如此，具體來說，我們在您談論的這些群體上進行了大量投資。收購是其中的一部分，透過增加團隊成員來壯大我們的信用平台。因此，您確實已經看到我們今年進行了大量投資，以期實現持續強勁的成長，就像我們剛才提到的我們預計 2025 年的籌款和活動一樣。

So I would actually look at -- when you think about a year like this, it's more investing to support what's going to happen in 2025, not that we have to invest in 2025 to make what happens in 2025 occur. So with that, let me just turn down to Alan to give you a little more specifics on the numbers.

所以我實際上會看看——當你想到這樣的一年時，更多的投資是為了支持 2025 年將要發生的事情，而不是我們必須在 2025 年進行投資才能讓 2025 年發生的事情發生。因此，請允許我把話題轉到艾倫身上，讓他向您提供有關這些數字的更多具體資訊。

Thank you, Marc. Steven, I appreciate the question. Let me approach it a couple of different ways. One, I think, overall, we came in a little under on expenses, light on comp a little heavier on G&A -- specifically for G&A, I think I would point out, we're certainly your point seeing our acquisitions being folded in. In 4Q, there were a couple of onetime items in the quarter, not distribution costs related. But overall, we are right on top of the guidance for our 59% FRE margin for '24. And then for 2025, our guidance continues to be 57%, 58% FRE margin.

謝謝你，馬克。史蒂文，我很感謝這個問題。讓我用幾種不同的方式來解決這個問題。首先，我認為，總體而言，我們的支出略有不足，同店銷售額較少，而一般及行政管理費用略有增加——具體到一般及行政管理費用，我想指出的是，我們的收購被納入其中，這肯定是你們所關注的。在第四季度，該季度有幾個一次性項目，與分銷成本無關。但總體而言，我們完全達到了 24 年 59% FRE 利潤率的預期。對於 2025 年，我們的預期仍然是 FRE 利潤率達到 57% 至 58%。

If you want a better feel for run rate levels and how we think about that, this year, and I think about it from an annual perspective. For 2024, we were at about 12% G&A as a percent of revenue, and we were at about 28.5% for comp. And so when I think about '25 for the year, the quarters will move around a bit, but for the year 2025, you could expect about the same ratio for G&A, so about 12% and give or take, of course, and with margins at 57%, 58%, that puts comp at about 30%, 31%. So I hope that was helpful.

如果您想更了解運行率水平以及我們對此的看法，今年，我將從年度角度來考慮這個問題。到 2024 年，我們的 G&A 佔收入的比例約為 12%，而我們的 C 佔收入的比例約為 28.5%。因此，當我考慮 2025 年的情況時，各個季度會略有波動，但對於 2025 年，您可以預期 G&A 的比率大致相同，大約為 12% 左右，利潤率為 57% 或 58%，因此可比利潤率約為 30% 或 31%。我希望這對您有幫助。

Brian McKenna, Citizens JMP.

布萊恩·麥肯納 (Brian McKenna)，公民 JMP。

I had a question on your BBB. So you just completed the BDC or BD merger -- and then you're obviously working on the OTF merger. Are there any updated time lines for the OTF merger getting done and when that could be uplisted and then beyond that, you're going to have two large BDCs in the public market. So how are you thinking about growth for both of these vehicles longer term from an equity and debt capital review perspective?

我對您的 BBB 有一個疑問。所以您剛剛完成了 BDC 或 BD 合併 - 然後您顯然正在進行 OTF 合併。OTF 合併是否有任何更新的時間表，何時可以升級為上市公司，之後您將在公開市場上擁有兩個大型 BDC。那麼從股權和債務資本審查的角度來看，您如何看待這兩種投資工具的長期成長？

Sure. Brian, thank you for the question. I'll take this and if Mark has anything to add after that. For -- we did complete the merger of OBD into I think that's now the second largest publicly traded BDC out there. We are going through the merger as we speak between ORTF and ORTF II. We've commented publicly that, that's on track to close in early 2Q. And so things are going well there and on track. And you certainly could expect a listing shortly after that. We'll talk a little bit more about all of this tomorrow at Investor Day.

當然。布萊恩，謝謝你的提問。我會接受這個，如果馬克之後還有什麼要補充的話。對於——我們確實完成了 OBD 的合併，我認為這是目前第二大公開交易的 BDC。我們正在經歷 ORTF 和 ORTF II 的合併。我們已經公開表示，該項目預計將在第二季初完成。目前那裡的事情進展很順利，正在按計劃進行。您當然可以期待不久後的上市。明天的投資者日我們會進一步討論這些內容。

If you recall, upon a listing of that software lending -- merged software lending BDC -- that's an incremental $135 million of annualized management fees. And so yes, we would expect that we will have at some point this year, two publicly traded BDCs, slightly different strategy, obviously. We have our diversified lending publicly traded BDC, OBDC today. And at some point this year, we would expect that we have our software lending BDC publicly traded. In terms of growing them beyond that, we could look at what some of our peers do in terms of what's called an ATM program and at-the-money program for raising capital as we go.

如果你還記得的話，在軟體借貸清單上——合併後的軟體借貸 BDC——這意味著每年增加 1.35 億美元的管理費。所以是的，我們預計今年某個時候我們將擁有兩個公開交易的 BDC，顯然，策略會略有不同。我們目前擁有多元化貸款公開交易公司 BDC、OBDC。我們預計今年某個時候我們的軟體借貸 BDC 將會公開交易。為了進一步實現成長，我們可以看看我們的一些同行是如何實施所謂的 ATM 計劃的和平價資本籌集計劃。

We could look at that for OBDC and certainly upon a listing of the software lending BDC, we could look at that for that as well. On the debt raise side, we continue to do all of the things that we've done historically. We've meaningfully inquired our revolvers across our BDC in 2024. We had a significant capital raise in what we call SPV drop-down structures, bilateral structures secured with banks, and we continue to raise a significant amount of unsecured debt. So we have a lot of tools at our disposal to be able to continue to raise both equity and debt dollars in what will be both publicly traded BDCs.

我們可以查看 OBDC，當然，在軟體借貸 BDC 清單上，我們也可以查看這一點。在債務增加方面，我們將繼續做我們過去所做的所有事情。2024 年，我們已對整個 BDC 的左輪手槍進行了有意義的詢問。我們在所謂的 SPV 下拉結構（由銀行擔保的雙邊結構）中進行了大規模的資本籌集，並且我們繼續籌集大量無擔保債務。因此，我們擁有許多可用的工具，能夠繼續在兩個公開交易的 BDC 中籌集股權和債務資金。

Brennan Hawken, UBS.

瑞銀的布倫南‧霍肯 (Brennan Hawken)。

So I know there's going to be some movement here in real assets. and there already has been with Prima and now you've got IPI closed. When we think about 4Q and the fee rate for that business, is that the right jumping off point fully reflected of PRIMA? Or was there's some noise?

所以我知道實體資產將會有些變動。 Prima 已經這麼做了，現在 IPI 也關閉了。當我們考慮第四季和該業務的費率時，這是否是 PRIMA 充分反映的正確起點？或有噪音嗎？

And then what's the best way to think about -- I know you gave us the total AUM for IPI, but what's the fee-paying AUM? And how should we be thinking about the impact to the fee rate from that acquisition close?

那麼最好的思考方式是什麼——我知道您給了我們 IPI 的總 AUM，但付費 AUM 是多少？我們該如何看待此次收購對費率的影響？

Sure. Thanks, Brennan. On the first one, yes, pretty much fully loaded into our AUM, fee paying AUM and average fee rates. So that's reflective.

當然。謝謝，布倫南。第一個，是的，幾乎完全融入我們的 AUM、付費 AUM 和平均費率。這很有反思性。

When you think about the acquisition of IPI, IPI was running at about 115 basis points on fee-paying AUM and so when we closed, we had about 14 and change billion of AUM, and about almost $11 billion of fee-paying AUM for IPI. So those are those two numbers. And on a go-forward basis, you could think of IPI running maybe a little higher than the 115 level, but that's how it blends into our real assets business.

當您考慮收購 IPI 時，IPI 的付費 AUM 約為 115 個基點，因此當我們完成時，我們的 AUM 約為 140 億美元，而 IPI 的付費 AUM 約為 110 億美元。這就是這兩個數字。從未來來看，您可能會認為 IPI 可能會略高於 115 的水平，但這就是它融入我們實體資產業務的方式。

And then last quarter, Alan, you gave an expectation thinking about 2025. And again, sort of awkward because we're all going to get together tomorrow morning. But -- and we'll talk about probably more than just two far longer time frames. But the last time on the third quarter call, you had laid out an expectation of FRE growth mid- to upper 20%s. Are you still feeling like that's the right way to think about it as we're updating our models? Or should we revise that one way or another?

上個季度，艾倫，你給了 2025 年的預期。而且，這有點尷尬，因為我們明天早上都要聚在一起。但是——我們討論的可能不僅僅是兩個更長的時間框架。但在上次第三季電話會議上，您提出了 FRE 成長預計在 20% 左右。當我們更新模型時，您是否仍然覺得這是正確的思考方式？或者我們應該以某種方式修改它？

No worries at all, Brennan, and appreciate the follow-on. So yes, we're going to talk a lot more about all of that tomorrow, very excited to get into all that specifically for 2025, I'm happy to talk about that now.

不用擔心，布倫南，感謝您的後續關注。所以是的，明天我們會更詳細地討論這些事情，我非常高興能夠深入討論 2025 年的所有問題，我很高興現在談論這個問題。

Last quarter, to your good point, I talked about FRE revenue growth for 2025 in the upper 20% or more. Fully on track, no change to that guidance. I talked about on last quarter's earnings call, FRE growth in the mid- to upper 20s percent fully on track, no change to that guidance. And on a per share FRE per share, you can think of that as about 20%.

上個季度，正如您所說，我談到了 2025 年 FRE 收入成長率將達到 20% 或更高。完全按計劃進行，指導意見沒有變化。我在上個季度的收益電話會議上談到，FRE 成長率在 20% 左右，完全步入正軌，這一預期沒有變化。以每股 FRE 計算，您可以將其視為約 20%。

Alex Blostein, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的亞歷克斯‧布洛斯坦 (Alex Blostein)。

Thanks for the question. I'll keep the big picture -- we'll keep the big picture up to tomorrow. I did want to ask about some of the near-term pipelines on the deployment side you're seeing. So it's a little bit of a follow-up to Glenn's question from earlier.

謝謝你的提問。我會關注大局——我們會關注大局直到明天。我確實想詢問一下您所看到的部署方面的一些近期管道。所以這是對 Glenn 之前提出的問題的一點後續。

But if you look at the M&A pipelines, there hasn't been a tremendous amount of announcements so far this year. So curious what you're seeing kind of underneath the surface and conversations with sponsors and more importantly, what have been the recent spreads to which you're underwriting kind of newer loans to? Just trying to get a sense of the competitor of nature in that market today.

但如果你看一下併購管道，今年迄今的公告數量並不多。所以我很好奇您在表面下看到了什麼以及與贊助商的對話，更重要的是，您承銷的新貸款的利差最近是多少？只是想了解當今市場上的自然競爭對手。

Look, we see things early, but not the early yet, right? The M&A adviser will often see the earliest views of pre-pipeline and obviously, the PE firms know what they're spending their time the sell side. So I think what I can say is we continue to have a good, sound level of activity. We've not observed an uptick, yes, as I said, I think we're optimistic, and I don't mean that in a rose calling glass sense that 2025, we will see something more materially moving upward.

你看，我們早就看到了事物，但還不是太早，對嗎？併購顧問通常會看到前期籌備工作的最早觀點，顯然，私募股權公司知道他們在賣方身上花了多少時間。因此我認為我可以說我們的活動水平繼續保持良好、穩健。我們沒有觀察到上漲，是的，正如我所說，我認為我們很樂觀，我並不是說在 2025 年，我們會看到更實質的上漲。

But in terms of activity level, what I understand and hear from the M&A advisers, they objectively are seeing more activity in the pipeline, starting more processes, the people feel. I don't know if it's unleased or just, look, we're just through a lot of uncertainties from the fall and people are ready to undertake activity. So I don't have some grand insight by any measure to offer, but except to say that our planning, our thinking, what Alan just talked about, is not predicated on some sort of market rally. It's not predicated on a different environment than we've been confronting in this past year.

但就活動水平而言，根據我從併購顧問處了解和聽到的信息，人們感覺到，他們客觀地看到正在進行的活動越來越多，啟動了更多的流程。我不知道它是否已被釋放，或者只是，看，我們只是經歷了秋天帶來的許多不確定性，人們已經準備好開展活動了。因此，無論以何種標準衡量，我都無法提供什麼宏大的見解，但我只能說，我們的計劃、我們的想法，也就是艾倫剛才談到的，並不是以某種市場反彈為前提的。這並不是基於我們過去一年所面臨的不同環境。

So I would view that not so much is called upside to 2025 performance, but I would tell you that, that sort of dam break or uptick will certainly be welcome, but it's not necessary to our thinking. So that's kind of, I'd say, contextually where we are. It does seem it. But I can't tell you -- we will get on one of these calls where we telecare I see pipelines are that much thicker, that many more things flowing through as we've said prior quarters. That has not been the case yet. I can't say that's the case yet now. But I anticipate there will be a quarter this year where we'll be able to say that.

因此，我認為 2025 年的表現不會有太大的上升空間，但我會告訴你，這種突破或上升肯定會受到歡迎，但在我們看來這不是必要的。所以我想說，這在某種程度上就是我們所處的境況。看起來確實如此。但我無法告訴您 - 我們將接到其中一個電話，在電話中我們透過遠距醫療看到管道變得更加厚，流經的東西也更加多，正如我們在前幾個季度所說的那樣。但目前情況尚未如此。現在我還不能說情況就是如此。但我預計今年某個季度我們將能夠這麼說。

With regard to spreads, I'd say it's now relatively stable. We go through these ebbs and flows. We've all talked about this. Things cycle up and needless to say, it is related to amount of activity, availability of public markets. And so we went to peak spreads in 2022. We came down in 2024 to back down again, 100 basis points probe on average across the portfolio, maybe 150 on a new originated loan. But we continue to hold on.

就利差而言，我認為現在相對穩定。我們經歷著這些起起落落。我們都討論過這個問題。事物循環往復，不用說，這與活動量、公共市場的可用性有關。因此，利差在 2022 年達到了高峰。我們在 2024 年再次降息，對整個投資組合進行平均 100 個基點的探測，新發放的貸款可能會探測 150 個基點。但我們仍繼續堅持。

This is what's interesting. When you look over time and you look at the spread to the broader marketplace, we continue to hold on to a pretty steady couple hundred basis points all in. So the product works. It's a durable all market product. And some ebbs and flows along the way, but we view it as very banded. So we're perfectly happy. I'm happy to take more spread. I mean, safe to say, but we're perfectly happy with the risk return we're seeing.

這才是有趣的。如果回顧一下時間，並觀察與更廣大市場的利差，我們會發現我們仍然穩定地維持著幾百個基點的利差。因此該產品有效。它是一款耐用的全市場產品。儘管沿途有一些潮起潮落，但我們認為它是非常分段的。所以我們非常高興。我很高興能獲得更多傳播機會。我的意思是，可以肯定地說，我們對所看到的風險回報非常滿意。

Patrick Davitt, Bernstein Research.

伯恩斯坦研究公司 (Bernstein Research) 的 Patrick Davitt。

Good morning, everyone. We might get into this more, but you mentioned the new alternative credit retail products. But there are a few products in that asset class with a significant head start on you getting a lot of traction. So could you maybe speak a little bit about how you think your product fits in against the more established ones? Anything different about it, you would point to and your confidence in getting placement with several products already ahead of you.

大家早安。我們可能會進一步討論這個問題，但您提到了新的替代信貸零售產品。但該資產類別中有一些產品比你領先很多，並且能獲得很大的吸引力。那麼，您能否稍微談談您認為您的產品與更成熟的產品相比有何優勢？您將會指出它的任何不同之處，以及您對已經領先於您的幾種產品獲得認可的信心。

Well, I'm going to say ahead of us, maybe is the eye of the beholder. I would actually suggest that we have probably one of the most advanced capabilities in alternative credit. Remember, [talaya] has been at this for 20 years. Yes, it's a hot topic today. years ago wasn't exactly on topic, but they've been doing it for 20 years to liver in spectacular results, incredibly low loss rates, great arrangements. We are a provider of choice in fact just this morning, other forward flow agreement that we announced of $2.6 billion with Atalaya.

好吧，我要說的是，也許是旁觀者的眼光。我實際上想說，我們可能擁有替代信貸領域最先進的能力之一。請記住，[talaya] 已經從事這項工作 20 年了。是的，這是今天的熱門話題。幾年前還沒有完全實現，但他們已經這樣做了 20 年，並取得了驚人的成果、極低的損失率和出色的安排。事實上，就在今天早上，我們是首選供應商，我們與 Atalaya 宣布了 26 億美元的其他遠期流動協議。

So I would actually prefer we may be much more ahead than people understood they have been focused on (inaudible) blowout alternative credit. In terms of product launch, yes, there's a couple of able to launch products in full respect. I think the infrastructure we have, and the track record we have and the reception we've already received in rolling out our credit platforms or to be direct to your question, we're already out with platforms and with RIAs and provide I think for a good reason, once you see the results, we are getting a very strong reception.

因此，我實際上希望我們能夠比人們所理解的更加領先，他們一直專注於（聽不清楚）井噴式的替代信貸。在產品發布方面，是的，有幾個能夠全面發布產品。我認為我們擁有的基礎設施、我們的業績記錄以及我們在推出信貸平台時已經獲得的反響，或者直接回答你的問題，我們已經推出了平台和 RIA，並且我認為有充分的理由，一旦你看到結果，我們就會受到非常強烈的反響。

So I feel great, frankly, about where we will land. I don't -- again, I don't take anything away from the fact that there are couple of other wonderful products in the category. I think that's going to be a typical structure, as you know, in these wealth categories. There'll be a few participants that are going to be really the bulk of a given subcategory, given asset class. I fully expect we'll be one of them in alternative credit. We are one of them in direct lending. We're net leader in real estate, and I think we will be one of the key leaders in digital infrastructure.

因此，坦白說，我對於我們的最終目標感到非常滿意。我不會—再說一次，我不會忽視這個事實：這個類別中還有其他幾種出色的產品。我認為，正如你所知，這將是這些財富類別的典型結構。將會有少數參與者真正成為給定子類別、給定資產類別的主體。我完全相信我們將成為替代信貸領域的一員。我們是直接貸款行業之一。我們是房地產領域的網路領導者，我認為我們將成為數位基礎設施領域的關鍵領導者之一。

So I think it's a very interesting market. We feel very fortunate to have started at it 10 years ago, which puts us in a position where kind of interesting gap, actually, which you'll find, we probably have the lowest brand recognition amongst the biggest firms, no shock there. But actually, if you look at how people view our brand, it's amongst the very best in the marketplace. That's a pretty nice gap to have. That gives us a lot of headroom.

所以我認為這是一個非常有趣的市場。我們很幸運 10 年前就開始從事這個行業，這使我們處於一個有趣的境地，實際上，你會發現，在最大的公司中，我們的品牌認知度可能是最低的，這並不奇怪。但實際上，如果你看看人們如何看待我們的品牌，你會發現它是市場上最好的品牌之一。這是一個相當不錯的差距。這給了我們很大的空間。

Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

克里斯賓·洛夫，派珀·桑德勒。

Speaking of data centers, you've now closed IPI. There's articles about a potential Stargate investment out there. Can you discuss your views on data centers going forward, potential growth opportunities? And how you balance that in light of the recent deep see news out there, which could impact the industry broadly?

說到資料中心，您現在已經關閉了 IPI。那裡有一些關於星際之門潛在投資的文章。您能談談您對未來資料中心的看法以及潛在的成長機會嗎？鑑於最近出現的可能對行業產生廣泛影響的深度新聞，您如何平衡這一點？

Absolutely. So you are correct. We have a very active and distinctive role in data centers. And you touched on 2 points, which I'm just going to call out II, which is now all digital infrastructure, a clear pioneer -- we were just talking with this yesterday, the scale of this market trillions was certainly not that when IPI had the foresight to become a leader in the space in a much, much, much smaller world, but that means they have many, many more skills and relationships and lessons learned.

絕對地。所以你是對的。我們在數據中心扮演著非常積極和獨特的角色。您提到了兩點，我只想提一下 II，即現在的所有數位基礎設施，一個明顯的先驅——我們昨天剛剛談到這一點，當 IPI 有遠見地在一個更小的世界裡成為該領域的領導者時，這個市場的規模肯定達數萬億美元，但這意味著他們擁有更多的技能、關係和經驗教訓。

As a result, we have built and managed 85 different data centers with a gigantic active pipeline behind it. And so we have, I guess, I would dare say, a lot of insights into what's happening in that marketplace. And what we're seeing and hearing from the client base, and quite frankly, it's all -- you all know this well. It's people out in the public market talking.

因此，我們已經建立並管理了 85 個不同的資料中心，背後還有龐大的活躍管道。因此，我猜，我敢說，我們對該市場正在發生的事情有很多了解。我們從客戶群中看到和聽到的情況是這樣的，坦白說，你們都非常清楚這一點。這是公開市場上人們的談話。

Look, Deep Seek is really, really fascinated. And we should -- look, it's all keep front of mind, Gavin's paradox, the idea that there's this disruptive technology, A, is to be expected hope for in the world of technology evolution. And in all likelihood, accelerates adoption. So it's not clear that what Deep Seek means exactly for ultimate compute, but here's what we can frame around that question. It may mean it all happens faster, it may happen broader. It may be a little less compute to train a model, but then you do more inference.

瞧，Deep Seek 真的非常著迷。我們應該－－看，這一切都要放在心上，加文悖論，這種顛覆性技術的想法，A，是科技進化世界中可期待的希望。並且很有可能加速採用。因此，目前尚不清楚 Deep Seek 對於最終計算的確切意義，但我們可以圍繞這一問題進行如下闡述。這可能意味著一切都發生得更快，發生的範圍更廣。訓練模型可能需要少一點計算，但需要做更多的推理。

I think it's hard to reason a conclusion other than what it tells us that AI is happening more, faster products. That's great news for our strategy. So what I guess I would -- what I take out of from where we sit at Blue Owl in Deep Seek is a good news story, which is the megatrend, the overall notion of AI adoption is only happening faster. And the whole reason you use our strategy, the whole reason to get the DNA of our business is downside protected, very attractive returns with stability and protection and income.

我認為，除了它告訴我們人工智慧正在更多、更快地出現產品之外，很難得出其他結論。這對我們的策略來說是個好消息。所以我想我會——從我們在 Blue Owl 的 Deep Seek 中所處的位置得到的一個好消息是，這是一個大趨勢，人工智能的採用的整體概念只會發生得更快。您使用我們的策略的全部原因、獲得我們業務 DNA 的全部原因都是為了獲得下行保護以及穩定性、保護性和收入方面的極具吸引力的回報。

So if you want to play in edges of AI, people may make great money on the cutting edge, or they may wake up and find out that someone is working on DeepSeek in China. We don't want any of those risks for our investors. So if you believe that 10 years from now, AI will be an important part of the kind of fabric of IT or the way we operate in this economy, then you want the picks and shovels. You want the infrastructure that goes with it, that's what we provide. So I would dare say we feel very, very good.

因此，如果你想在人工智慧的前沿領域探索，人們可能會在前沿領域賺大錢，或者他們可能會醒來發現有人在中國研究 DeepSeek。我們不希望我們的投資者面臨任何此類風險。因此，如果你相信 10 年後，人工智慧將成為 IT 結構或我們在這個經濟中運作方式的重要組成部分，那麼你就需要鎬和鏟子。您需要與之配套的基礎設施，這正是我們所提供的。所以我敢說我們感覺非常非常好。

Now, let's add that to a few macro numbers, and then I'll move on. The announcements coming out of the people who really know what they're planning to do. And by the way, whose credit we ultimately get paid by, they made their positions clear. Even in the two weeks since DeepSeek. We've seen Meta come out and move their number to $65 billion. Microsoft, which when we signed our deal, think we thought they were going to be around $50 billion. I think they talked about with $80 billion. We're hearing $80 billion as a number around Amazon, I think, Google, $75 billion they announced yesterday.

現在，讓我們將其添加到一些巨集數字中，然後我繼續。這些聲明來自那些真正知道自己計劃做什麼的人。順便說一句，我們最終是靠誰的功勞獲得報酬的，他們的立場很明確。甚至在 DeepSeek 推出後的兩週內。我們看到 Meta 的出現並將其數字提升至 650 億美元。當我們簽署協議時，我們認為微軟的市值將在 500 億美元左右。我認為他們談論的是 800 億美元。我們聽說亞馬遜的估值為 800 億美元，我想，Google昨天也宣布了 750 億美元。

So the people that are spending the actual money have made their position clear and that's our client base, and then they pay us for 15 years with their near sovereign like credit ratings. So all that feels very good. Last thing I'll say, not because I want to pound on this, but we're all trying to get our minds around just the evolution of the market. If you look at the demand for compute and the multitrillion dollar opportunity that we're excited about and others, too, 75% of that was already anticipated to be for inference and to be for just cloud compute. So even when we get into does DeepSeek change, the fundamental need for raw compute power for training models, we're really talking about modulation around that last 25%.

因此，那些真正花錢的人已經明確表明了他們的立場，這就是我們的客戶群，然後他們以近乎主權的信用評級向我們支付了 15 年的費用。所以這一切感覺非常好。最後我想說的是，並不是因為我想強調這一點，而是我們都在努力理解市場的演變。如果你看看對運算的需求和令我們興奮的數萬億美元的機會，以及其他機會，其中 75% 已經預計用於推理和雲端運算。因此，即使我們深入研究 DeepSeek 是否會改變訓練模型對原始運算能力的基本需求，我們實際上談論的是圍繞最後 25% 的調節。

So all that taken together, if you believe in AI and you want to have a great way to make a really attractive risk return, then you go with a pioneer and actually go-to partner in building and managing these data centers, we have 1,000 people inside of our operations group more widely known as STACK. They're the experts on how to make that happen. It's a huge barrier to entry. So DeepSeek is fascinating. I think it means join our strategy. We want to make sure you play the foundation of it. And then you can also do the cutting edge and that will take technology skills that thankfully not decisions we have to make.

綜上所述，如果你相信人工智慧，並且希望找到一種獲得真正有吸引力的風險回報的好方法，那麼你可以選擇一位先驅者，並真正與合作夥伴一起建立和管理這些資料中心，我們的營運團隊中有 1,000 名員工，更廣為人知的名字是 STACK。他們是如何實現這一目標的專家。這是一個巨大的進入障礙。所以 DeepSeek 非常令人著迷。我認為這意味著加入我們的策略。我們希望確保你能打好它的基礎。然後你也可以做最前沿的事情，這需要技術技能，幸運的是，這不是我們必須做出的決定。

Mike Brown, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的麥克布朗。

So good questions. I just wanted to narrow in on maybe the credit results this quarter. fees rose about $25 million quarter-over-quarter, and this would be the first full quarter with Atalaya. By my estimate, that should have added, I'd say, $20 million to $22 million in the quarter. So I guess, one, is that about right?

這些問題真好。我只是想縮小範圍了解本季的信貸結果。費用環比增長約 2500 萬美元，這將是 Atalaya 的第一個完整季度。根據我的估計，本季的營收應該會增加 2,000 萬至 2,200 萬美元。所以我想，第一，這樣對嗎？

And then two, can you just help us understand some of the other drivers beneath the service and maybe why the feed ex Atalaya didn't increase as much quarter-over-quarter? And then finally, sorry, just maybe also any color on incremental increase into 1Q as we think about the go forward?

其次，您能否幫助我們了解該服務背後的一些其他驅動因素，以及為什麼 Atalaya 的 feed ex 本季沒有大幅成長？最後，抱歉，當我們考慮未來發展時，也許第一季的增量也會有任何變化嗎？

Sure. Thanks, Mike. I think your numbers are directionally correct on the Atalaya add. We certainly saw increases across all of our products in terms of management fees quarter-over-quarter. So we had a strong growth quarter in management fees across credit. We also raised capital during the quarter at higher fees. So you'll see an increase in that management fees from AUM not yet earning fees.

當然。謝謝，麥克。我認為您的 Atalaya 添加的數字在方向上是正確的。我們所有產品的管理費用都比上一季增加。因此，我們本季的信貸管理費用成長強勁。我們還在本季以更高的費用籌集了資金。因此，您會看到尚未賺取費用的 AUM 的管理費用增加。

And you'll see a little drop down in Part 1 fees -- effectively flat, but I think it was down about $2 million quarter-over-quarter. As we think about Part 1 fees, what I mentioned on last quarter's call, as you can think of 3Q, 4Q as kind of a jumping off point as a run rate level, if you will. It will move up a little or down a little quarter-over-quarter and then you'll see a step function upon a listing of the software lending BDC.

您會看到第 1 部分的費用略有下降 - 實際上是持平的，但我認為與上一季相比下降了約 200 萬美元。當我們考慮第一部分費用時，我在上個季度的電話會議上提到過，您可以將第 3 季、第 4 季視為運行率水平的起點，如果您願意的話。它將每個季度略有上升或下降，然後您會在軟體借貸 BDC 清單上看到階躍函數。

Kenneth Worthington, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的肯尼斯‧沃辛頓。

This is Alex Bernstein on for Ken. At the roof double-clicking on the same topic again, just wanted to hopefully get a different flavor out of the delta between gross to net. You spoke about incumbency, which is definitely a key point. And maybe to help us better understand the power of that. As we look at what is actually that, which includes refi, as I understand it, that you're doing yourself for your own products? What's the difference between what is staying in the system and what might be exiting the system and specifically, what's happening with the broadly syndicated market and with bank competition.

這是亞歷克斯伯恩斯坦 (Alex Bernstein) 為肯 (Ken) 主持的節目。在屋頂上再次雙擊同一主題，只是希望從總額和淨額之間的差異中獲得不同的感覺。您談到了任職問題，這肯定是一個關鍵點。也許可以幫助我們更好地理解它的力量。讓我們來看看這實際上是什麼，據我所知，其中包括您為自己的產品進行的再融資嗎？留在系統中的和可能退出系統中的有什麼區別，具體來說，廣泛的銀團市場和銀行競爭中發生了什麼。

When we saw this topic first come up earlier in the year, so say, Q1 really when it sort of hit most people's attention spans it made sense that there was more refi from the DSL in the context of that market being closed and then rates moving down over the course of that period while that market was closed and when it opened. We don't have that same dynamic today. So I wanted to understand why that number was as a percentage, the conversion was lower in Q4 than it was for the whole year.

當我們在今年早些時候第一次看到這個話題時，也就是說，在第一季度，它確實引起了大多數人的注意，在 DSL 市場關閉的背景下，來自 DSL 的再融資更多，並且利率在該市場關閉和開放的那段時期內下降，這是有道理的。如今，我們不再擁有同樣的活力。所以我想了解為什麼這個數字以百分比表示，第四季的轉換率低於全年的轉換率。

Yes, sure. So a couple of dynamics on pack. Again, I'll reinforce look, net-net, it's ultimately a pretty healthy dynamic in the portfolio or expected and healthy dynamic. It also is not to be lost. It does accelerate OID comes with prepayment benefit. So there's also not to be lost in this other benefits that come from these types of refinancings. With that said, you put your finger on a good point about sort of the, might call it the rush of refinancings in the first part of the year, which was indeed impacted partly by reopening of the BSL market.

是的，當然。包裝上有幾個動態。再次，我要強調，淨值最終是投資組合中相當健康的動態或預期的健康動態。它也不會被遺失。它確實加速了 OID 附帶的預付款福利。因此，這些類型的再融資所帶來的其他好處也不容忽視。話雖如此，您指出了一個很好的觀點，可以稱之為今年上半年的再融資熱潮，這確實在一定程度上受到了 BSL 市場重新開放的影響。

I think a lot of -- and I won't be able to give you an exact number on this, but I would say directionally, a lot of what we're seeing are companies that are doing well, coming back, have grown, delevered and saying, Look, the world is different from where it was a few years ago when I did my financing. And so I'd like to redo it. That does include redoing spread, often includes redoing and resetting the right size of the CapStack. So it's not been a drawdown or a draw away by the BSL market.

我認為有很多——我無法給出一個確切的數字，但我想說，從方向上看，我們看到很多公司都表現良好，它們重新崛起、實現增長、去槓桿，並且說，看，這個世界與幾年前我融資時的情況已經不同了。所以我想重做一次。這確實包括重新進行傳播，通常包括重做和重置 CapStack 的正確大小。因此，BSL 市場並沒有出現下滑或萎縮。

We'll always have some things that move from us to the BSL market from the BSL market to us. I actually would characterize the refi now, again, as you said, has more about people just redoing cap stack in a healthier environment, those who have healthy, more delevered businesses than it is about the surge into BSL is back. And so people that were kind of waiting out their time shifted.

我們總是會有一些產品從我們這裡轉移到 BSL 市場，再從 BSL 市場轉移到我們這裡。事實上，我現在要對再融資進行描述，正如你所說，更多的是人們在更健康的環境中重新進行資本積累，那些擁有健康、去槓桿率更高的業務的人，而不是 BSL 激增的回歸。因此，那些正在等待時機的人就改變了主意。

So the BSL market, I guess I'd say the effect of having a very full bore available BSL market, that's already -- that's fully in the system. So as we enter 2025, that we've already experienced all that. And there will always be, again, loans that move back and forth. I think at the end of the day, for us now, late refinancing has occurred, there'll always be some tactfully because we have healthy companies that are doing really well. And rightfully sell, they have a chance to refinance and they come to us because they like working with us and they do it again.

因此，對於 BSL 市場，我想說的是，擁有一個非常充分的 BSL 市場所帶來的影響已經 - 這完全融入了系統。當我們進入 2025 年時，我們已經經歷了這一切。而且，總是會有貸款來回流動的情況。我認為，對我們來說，最終，現在，延遲再融資已經發生，總是會有一些巧妙的方式，因為我們擁有表現良好的健康公司。透過合法的出售，他們有機會進行再融資，他們來找我們，因為他們喜歡與我們合作，所以他們再次這樣做。

[Bradley Hach], [TD Cohen].

[布拉德利·哈奇]，[TD·科恩]。

Bradley on for Bill Katz. You reached about $300 million in management fees from deploying AUM not yet paying fees. How should we be thinking about the cadence of deployment? Any color on the opportunity to deploy some of this dry (inaudible) into.

布拉德利替換比爾·卡茨。您透過部署尚未支付費用的 AUM 獲得了約 3 億美元的管理費。我們該如何考慮部署的節奏？任何顏色都有機會部署一些這種乾（聽不清楚）進去。

Sure. I'll take that, Bradley. So when we think about that AUM not yet earning fees, it's a little over $300 million of management fees. That, by the way, combined with the $135 million of annualized management fee increase from a software lending BDC increase. It's almost $450 million -- those two items alone would represent over a 20% increase from our 2024 management fee level.

當然。我接受，布拉德利。因此，當我們考慮到尚未賺取費用的 AUM 時，其管理費略高於 3 億美元。順便說一句，這與軟體貸款 BDC 增加的 1.35 億美元年度管理費成長相結合。它幾乎是 4.5 億美元——光是這兩項就比我們 2024 年的管理費水準增加 20% 以上。

Kind of time frame, obviously, hard to tell. Generally speaking, most of that, I would expect can get deployed within the next year. And so maybe some of that tails into 2026, but we think we can deploy that roughly in about a year, and we're expecting deployment opportunities to be able to put that capital to work.

顯然，時間框架很難說。總的來說，我預計大部分可以在明年內部署。因此，也許其中一部分會持續到 2026 年，但我們認為我們可以在大約一年的時間內完成部署，並且我們期待部署機會能夠讓這些資本投入使用。

Thank you. I'd now like to hand the call over back to Marc Lipschultz for further remarks.

謝謝。現在我想將電話轉回給馬克·利普舒爾茨 (Marc Lipschultz) 以聽取進一步的評論。

Terrific. Well, look, thank you all. I guess I'll make just a couple of final comments. It was a great quarter. And it was a great quarter measured in absolute terms, in terms of results. But I also want to come back to a great quarter measured in durability of the model and of our growth. This has been a volatile world in the last year, the last several years, and we're going to talk about this more tomorrow.

了不起。好吧，看，謝謝大家。我想我只想做最後幾點評論。這是一個偉大的季度。從絕對值和業績來看，這是一個出色的季度。但我也想回顧這個以模型的持久性和我們的成長來衡量的偉大季度。去年、過去幾年，世界一直動盪不安，明天我們將繼續討論這個問題。

We have continued and will continue a strong up and to the right March and I think that durability really showed again in this quarter. We -- for all that's happened in the world, here we are plowing forward at rates of growth that have materially eclipsed the market, the peer set, and we're going to talk more about how we continue that path forward, and continue to win as we look into the next five years.

我們將繼續保持強勁成長勢頭，直到三月份，我認為這種持久力在本季再次得到體現。儘管世界上發生了許多事情，我們仍以遠超市場和同行的成長速度奮力前行，展望未來五年，我們將更多地討論如何繼續沿著這條道路前進，繼續取勝。

So also, I'll say, we do indeed after the size forward to the main course, if you will, tomorrow. And we have a lot we're excited to share with you is how we pull all these pieces together. Doug is going to talk about the chessboard that he sees. And I think you'll all share this exciting vision for that chessboard. We saw it before and what got us to where we are now. We see the chessboard from here forward again. So we look forward to really I'm in a chance to talk with you all about that and answer further questions.

所以，我想說的是，如果你願意的話，明天我們確實會在規模之後繼續進行主菜。我們非常高興與你們分享很多關於我們如何將所有這些部分整合在一起的資訊。道格將要談論他所看到的棋盤。我想你們都會對這個棋盤有著同樣令人興奮的願景。我們之前就見過這樣的情況，這也是為什麼我們走到了現在的情況。從這裡我們又可以看見棋盤了。因此，我們期待真正有機會與大家討論這個問題並回答進一步的問題。

And last, let's say, thank you. really, we do appreciate the time, the thought and the support, and we will keep working very, very hard to keep delivering on all these opportunities for you. Have a great day.

最後，讓我們說聲謝謝。真的，我們非常感謝您付出的時間、心思和支持，我們將繼續非常非常努力地為您提供所有這些機會。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you for attending today's conference call. You may now disconnect. Have a wonderful day, everyone.

感謝您參加今天的電話會議。您現在可以斷開連線。祝大家有美好的一天。